Latest / Deep Transformation / Waking Up to Pure Awareness: Transcending Your Mind with A. H. Almaas (Part 1)

Transcript

Waking Up to Pure Awareness: Transcending Your Mind with A. H. Almaas (Part 1) · Deep Transformation

0:00
Welcome
0:00
to
0:01
our
0:01
14th
0:02
dialogue
0:02
in
0:03
the
0:03
Wisdom
0:03
series
0:03
with
0:04
A.
0:04
H.
0:05
Almaas,
0:05
aka
0:06
Hameed
0:06
Ali.
0:07
Roger
0:07
said
0:07
that
0:08
this
0:08
talk
0:08
was
0:08
especially
0:09
nourishing,
0:10
intriguing,
0:10
stimulating
0:11
and
0:11
transmitting
0:12
awareness.
0:13
Hameed
0:13
says
0:14
that
0:14
in
0:14
many
0:14
traditions
0:15
that
0:15
the
0:16
individual
0:16
is
0:17
seen
0:17
as
0:17
an
0:18
illusion.
0:18
Hameed
0:19
tells
0:19
us
0:20
it
0:20
is
0:20
an
0:21
appearance.
0:22
Shall
0:22
we
0:22
get
0:23
into
0:23
it?
0:27
Welcome
0:28
to
0:28
Deep
0:28
Transformation
0:29
Self,
0:30
Society,
0:30
Spirit,
0:31
Life
0:32
enhancing,
0:32
paradigm
0:33
rattling
0:33
conversations
0:34
with
0:34
cutting
0:35
edge
0:35
thinkers,
0:36
contemplatives
0:37
and
0:37
activists.
0:37
With
0:38
Dr.
0:38
Roger
0:38
Walsh
0:39
and
0:39
John
0:39
Dupuy.
0:42
Welcome
0:43
to
0:43
the
0:43
podcast
0:44
Deep
0:44
Transformation,
0:45
Self,
0:46
Society,
0:46
Spirit.
0:47
I'm
0:48
Roger
0:48
Walsh,
0:49
our
0:49
co
0:49
host
0:49
is
0:50
John
0:50
Dupuy
0:51
and
0:51
our
0:52
guest
0:52
today
0:53
is
0:53
A.
0:54
H.
0:54
Almaas,
0:55
sometimes
0:55
better
0:55
known
0:56
as
0:56
Hameed
0:56
Ali
0:57
but
0:57
pen
0:57
name
0:58
A.
0:58
H.
0:58
Almaas.
0:59
And
0:59
today
1:00
we
1:00
are
1:01
having
1:01
our
1:01
14th
1:02
dialogue
1:03
in
1:04
our
1:04
Age
1:04
Wellness
1:05
Wisdom
1:06
series
1:07
in
1:07
which
1:07
we're
1:07
working
1:08
away
1:08
systematically
1:09
through
1:09
one
1:10
of
1:10
his
1:10
central
1:10
texts,
1:11
the
1:12
Inner
1:12
Journey
1:13
Home.
1:13
And
1:14
Hameed
1:14
is
1:14
providing
1:15
an
1:15
oral
1:16
overview
1:17
of
1:17
his
1:18
extensive
1:18
work
1:19
which
1:19
underlies
1:20
his
1:20
training
1:21
program
1:22
the
1:22
Diamond
1:22
Approach
1:23
and
1:24
offers
1:24
a
1:25
profound
1:25
understanding
1:26
of
1:26
the
1:27
nature
1:27
of
1:27
reality
1:28
and
1:29
the
1:29
ways
1:29
in
1:30
which
1:30
we
1:30
can
1:30
awaken
1:30
to
1:31
it.
1:31
And
1:32
today
1:32
we're
1:32
up
1:33
to
1:33
chapter
1:33
19
1:34
on
1:35
the
1:35
topic
1:35
of
1:35
non
1:36
conceptual
1:36
awareness.
1:37
We
1:38
covered
1:38
a
1:38
little
1:38
of
1:39
this
1:39
in
1:39
our
1:39
last
1:39
dialogue,
1:40
but
1:41
now
1:41
we
1:41
dive
1:42
into,
1:42
particularly
1:43
beginning
1:43
with
1:43
the
1:44
topics
1:44
of
1:44
dichotomies.
1:45
And
1:46
this
1:46
is
1:46
such
1:46
a
1:46
profound
1:47
discussion,
1:47
I
1:47
feel,
1:48
I
1:48
realize
1:48
I'm
1:49
a
1:49
little
1:49
repetitive.
1:50
Of
1:50
the
1:50
last
1:51
several
1:51
dialogues
1:52
I've
1:52
said
1:52
this
1:52
is
1:53
a
1:53
really
1:53
profound
1:54
chapter
1:56
and
1:56
they
1:56
are.
1:57
And
1:57
this
1:58
is
1:58
a
1:58
profound
1:59
discussion
1:59
and
2:00
topic.
2:01
So
2:01
we
2:01
come
2:01
to
2:02
the
2:03
topic
2:03
that
2:03
you
2:03
Hameed,
2:05
call
2:06
transcending
2:06
conceptual
2:07
dichotomies.
2:08
pointoutthatourbasicnature
2:11
is,or
2:12
oneaspectordimensionofourfundamentalnatureor
2:15
truenatureisnonconceptualawareness.Butthat'susually
2:18
cloudedbythementaloperationsof
2:22
thepsyche,
2:23
which,andinparticular
2:24
youfocushereon
2:26
conceptual
2:27
dichotomies,forexample,
2:29
beingandnonbeingandactionandactionandnonaction,etcetera.Andyousaythatthesedichotomiesaretheunderpinning,andyousay
2:39
the
2:39
finalunderpinnings
2:41
ofthewayinwhich
2:42
westructuretheselfand
2:44
the
2:45
world.Andtheseoverlaynondualawareness.
2:49
So
2:50
maybe
2:51
youjustliketotakeofffromthere.
2:53
So
2:54
John
2:54
had
2:54
something
2:55
to
2:55
say.
2:56
Oh,
2:56
thank
2:56
you,
2:56
Hameed.
2:57
Yeah,
2:57
I
2:57
just
2:58
want
2:58
to
2:58
say
2:58
I
2:59
don't
2:59
know
2:59
if
2:59
we've
2:59
done
2:59
this
3:00
before,
3:00
but
3:00
if
3:00
you're.
3:01
And
3:01
I
3:01
know
3:01
a
3:01
lot
3:02
of
3:02
you
3:02
have
3:02
contacted
3:02
me
3:03
and
3:03
talked
3:03
to
3:03
me
3:03
how
3:03
much
3:03
you're
3:04
getting
3:04
out
3:04
of
3:04
this.
3:04
So
3:04
please
3:05
hit
3:05
like
3:05
if
3:06
you're
3:06
enjoying
3:06
this.
3:07
Also
3:07
your
3:08
comments
3:08
are
3:09
so
3:09
important
3:09
to
3:10
us
3:10
to
3:10
let
3:10
us
3:10
know
3:11
how
3:11
we're
3:11
doing
3:11
if
3:11
you
3:11
have
3:12
questions,
3:12
just
3:13
your
3:13
feedback
3:14
is
3:14
all
3:14
important.
3:15
That's
3:15
you're
3:16
our
3:16
mirror.
3:17
And
3:17
also
3:17
subscribe
3:18
because
3:19
that
3:19
means
3:20
a
3:20
lot
3:20
to
3:20
us
3:20
and
3:21
it
3:21
helps
3:21
us
3:21
to
3:22
contribute,
3:22
in
3:22
other
3:22
words,
3:23
to
3:23
get
3:23
this
3:23
out
3:23
to
3:24
a
3:24
world
3:24
that
3:24
sorely
3:25
needs
3:25
this
3:26
dimension
3:26
of
3:27
reality
3:27
and
3:28
dimensions
3:28
that
3:29
we're
3:29
exploring
3:29
and
3:30
to
3:30
sit
3:30
at
3:30
the
3:30
foot
3:31
of
3:31
this
3:31
magnificent
3:32
teacher.
3:32
It's
3:32
really
3:33
something.
3:33
So
3:34
subscribe
3:34
if
3:34
you
3:34
would.
3:35
Thank
3:35
you.
3:35
And
3:36
thank
3:36
you,
3:36
Hameed.
3:37
Good,
3:37
Sounds
3:37
good.
3:38
So
3:38
get
3:39
to
3:39
Raj's
3:40
question
3:41
first.
3:41
I'll
3:42
put
3:42
it
3:42
in
3:42
contact.
3:43
You
3:43
know,
3:44
which
3:45
is
3:45
that
3:45
the
3:46
book
3:46
is
3:47
really
3:48
has
3:49
sort
3:49
of.
3:50
It's
3:50
one
3:51
in
3:51
one
3:51
whole,
3:52
but
3:52
has
3:52
two
3:52
sides.
3:53
First
3:53
side
3:54
is
3:54
how
3:55
we
3:55
first
3:55
experience
3:56
ourselves
3:57
and
3:57
how
3:57
that
3:58
come
3:58
about
3:59
and
3:59
what
3:59
underlies
4:00
it.
4:01
Right.
4:01
That's
4:02
when
4:02
we
4:02
discuss
4:02
the
4:03
individual
4:03
consciousness
4:04
or
4:04
what
4:04
you
4:04
call
4:04
the
4:04
soul
4:05
and
4:05
how
4:06
it
4:06
develops
4:06
into
4:06
an
4:07
ego
4:07
and
4:07
what
4:07
happened
4:08
to
4:08
it
4:08
when
4:09
the
4:09
ego
4:09
is.
4:10
Is
4:11
dissolved.
4:12
And
4:13
that
4:13
then
4:13
shows
4:14
the
4:14
journey,
4:15
inner
4:15
journey
4:15
in
4:16
your
4:16
home
4:16
to
4:17
reality.
4:18
But
4:18
the
4:18
reality
4:19
and
4:19
energy
4:19
reality
4:20
discussing
4:21
in
4:21
this
4:21
book
4:21
is
4:22
that
4:22
of
4:22
non
4:23
dual
4:23
reality.
4:25
So
4:25
really
4:26
the
4:27
heart
4:27
of
4:27
the
4:27
book
4:27
is
4:28
the
4:28
non
4:28
dual
4:29
universe
4:31
as
4:31
we
4:32
see
4:32
it
4:32
in
4:32
this
4:32
teaching
4:33
and
4:33
diamond
4:34
approach.
4:34
So
4:35
a
4:35
diamond
4:35
approach
4:36
has
4:36
other
4:36
realization
4:37
besides
4:37
non
4:38
dual
4:39
and
4:39
non
4:39
dual
4:40
is
4:40
important
4:40
and
4:41
central.
4:41
And
4:42
this
4:42
book
4:43
really
4:43
delves
4:44
into
4:44
it
4:44
in
4:45
very
4:45
much
4:46
detail
4:47
as
4:47
you've
4:47
seen,
4:48
but
4:48
also
4:49
the
4:49
other
4:49
thing
4:50
you
4:50
want
4:50
to
4:50
see
4:51
like
4:52
in
4:52
a
4:52
non
4:52
dual
4:53
perception
4:54
or
4:55
reality.
4:55
I
4:56
divided
4:56
into
4:56
five
4:57
major
4:57
chapters.
4:59
Each
4:59
chapter
5:01
basically
5:02
explicates
5:03
one
5:03
dimension
5:04
of
5:04
non
5:05
dual
5:05
reality.
5:06
So
5:06
I
5:07
present
5:07
non
5:08
dual
5:08
perception
5:09
not
5:10
as
5:10
an
5:10
overall
5:11
just
5:11
non
5:11
dual
5:12
which
5:12
most
5:13
teachings
5:13
do,
5:14
which
5:14
is
5:14
non
5:15
dual
5:15
awareness
5:16
or
5:16
non
5:16
dual
5:16
reality
5:17
or
5:17
non
5:17
dual
5:18
whatever.
5:18
And
5:19
they
5:19
don't
5:19
talk
5:19
about
5:20
a
5:20
different
5:20
dimension.
5:21
Here
5:22
I
5:23
presented
5:23
a
5:24
five
5:24
dimension
5:25
of
5:25
non
5:25
dual
5:26
reality.
5:26
They
5:26
all
5:27
usually
5:28
can
5:29
be
5:29
all
5:29
together
5:30
as
5:30
one
5:30
thing,
5:31
but
5:31
they
5:31
can
5:31
be
5:32
differentiated
5:33
as
5:33
five
5:33
terms.
5:34
There's
5:34
no
5:35
gradation
5:35
between
5:36
them,
5:36
no
5:36
hierarchy.
5:38
It's
5:38
just
5:38
this,
5:39
the
5:39
non
5:39
dual
5:40
it
5:40
differentiates
5:41
into
5:42
five
5:42
distinct
5:43
dimension.
5:44
And
5:44
that
5:45
is
5:45
very
5:45
useful
5:46
because
5:46
each
5:46
dimension
5:47
elucidates
5:48
some
5:49
truth
5:49
about
5:49
our
5:50
experience,
5:51
our
5:51
ordinary
5:52
experience
5:53
and
5:53
how
5:54
also
5:54
very
5:55
significant
5:55
in
5:56
understanding
5:57
how
5:58
our
5:59
self
5:59
develops
6:00
and
6:01
how
6:01
the
6:02
practice
6:02
dissolves
6:03
it.
6:03
And
6:04
each
6:04
one
6:04
of
6:04
the
6:05
dimension
6:06
shows
6:06
something
6:07
important
6:08
about
6:08
that
6:09
process.
6:09
And
6:10
that's
6:10
why
6:11
I
6:11
didn't
6:11
present
6:11
it
6:11
as
6:12
just
6:12
non
6:12
dual.
6:12
That
6:13
by
6:13
itself
6:13
we'll
6:14
just
6:14
say
6:15
the
6:15
opposite.
6:15
Non
6:16
dual
6:16
as
6:17
separateness
6:17
of
6:18
being
6:18
separate
6:18
self
6:19
doesn't
6:19
give
6:19
you
6:20
more
6:20
detail
6:20
here.
6:21
I'm
6:22
giving
6:22
a
6:22
great
6:23
deal
6:23
of
6:23
details
6:24
about
6:24
the
6:24
self
6:26
and
6:26
our
6:26
perception
6:27
of
6:27
the
6:27
world
6:27
and
6:28
life
6:28
and
6:29
everything
6:29
else
6:30
from
6:30
Some
6:31
details
6:31
that
6:32
are
6:32
not
6:33
easy
6:33
to
6:33
get
6:34
to.
6:34
If
6:34
you
6:34
look
6:34
at
6:35
a
6:35
non
6:35
dual
6:35
as
6:35
one
6:36
overarching
6:37
reality
6:38
or
6:38
dimension,
6:39
breaking
6:40
it
6:40
down
6:40
to
6:41
five
6:41
dimensions.
6:41
And
6:42
for
6:42
me,
6:42
I
6:42
didn't
6:42
break
6:43
it
6:43
down
6:43
in
6:43
my
6:43
mind,
6:44
that's
6:44
how
6:44
it
6:44
appeared
6:45
to
6:45
me.
6:45
One
6:46
dimension
6:46
after
6:46
the
6:47
other,
6:47
they're
6:48
all
6:48
non
6:48
dual.
6:49
And
6:49
after
6:50
I
6:50
went
6:50
through
6:51
all
6:51
the
6:51
five,
6:52
then
6:52
all
6:52
the
6:52
five
6:53
show
6:53
themselves
6:53
as
6:54
one
6:54
reality,
6:55
which
6:55
is
6:55
the
6:55
most
6:55
teaching
6:56
talk
6:56
about.
6:57
But
6:57
each
6:57
one
6:58
really
6:59
reveals
6:59
something
7:00
very
7:00
important
7:01
about
7:02
how
7:02
the
7:03
self
7:03
develops,
7:04
how
7:04
the
7:04
mind
7:04
developed,
7:05
the
7:05
origin
7:06
of
7:06
the
7:06
mind,
7:06
the
7:06
origin
7:07
of
7:07
knowing,
7:08
the
7:08
origin
7:08
of
7:08
action,
7:10
all
7:10
of
7:10
these
7:10
things.
7:11
You
7:11
know
7:11
that
7:12
people
7:12
have
7:12
many
7:13
questions
7:14
and
7:14
the
7:15
question
7:15
how
7:15
does
7:16
a
7:16
functioning
7:16
happen?
7:17
How
7:17
is
7:17
doing
7:18
happen,
7:18
how
7:18
change
7:19
happens?
7:20
And
7:20
the
7:21
different
7:21
levels
7:21
of
7:22
the
7:22
mental
7:22
operation
7:23
that
7:24
creates
7:24
the
7:25
self,
7:25
which
7:26
is
7:26
very
7:26
useful
7:27
in
7:27
understanding
7:28
how
7:29
deep
7:30
to
7:30
deconstruct
7:31
it.
7:31
So
7:32
very
7:32
important
7:33
to
7:33
see
7:33
that.
7:33
And
7:34
we
7:34
are
7:34
now
7:35
discussing
7:36
the
7:37
third
7:37
dimension
7:38
that
7:38
is
7:38
discussed
7:39
in
7:39
the
7:39
book,
7:40
which
7:40
is
7:40
that
7:41
of
7:42
pure
7:42
awareness
7:43
on
7:44
non
7:44
conceptual
7:45
awareness,
7:46
which
7:47
some
7:47
non
7:48
dual
7:48
teachings
7:48
emphasize.
7:49
Or
7:49
it's
7:50
implied,
7:52
I
7:52
don't
7:53
know.
7:53
A
7:53
teaching
7:54
that
7:54
comes
7:55
out
7:55
and
7:55
explicitly
7:56
states
7:57
what
7:57
I
7:57
mean
7:58
by
7:58
non
7:58
conceptual
7:59
here,
7:59
as
8:00
you
8:00
have
8:00
seen,
8:00
by
8:01
non
8:01
conceptual
8:01
Hyen,
8:02
I
8:02
don't
8:03
mean
8:03
just
8:03
non
8:04
mental.
8:04
Most
8:05
people
8:05
in
8:05
the
8:06
teaching,
8:06
this
8:06
talk
8:07
about
8:07
non
8:07
conceptual
8:08
mean
8:08
doesn't
8:09
involve
8:09
the
8:09
usual
8:10
mental
8:10
operation
8:11
of
8:11
the
8:11
mind.
8:12
By
8:12
non
8:13
conception
8:13
mean
8:14
here
8:14
I
8:14
mean
8:15
no
8:15
knowing.
8:16
It's
8:16
beyond
8:17
the
8:17
knowing
8:17
capacity
8:18
because
8:19
any
8:19
knowing
8:20
implies
8:20
some
8:21
concept.
8:22
And
8:22
I
8:22
in
8:22
the
8:23
last
8:23
chapter,
8:24
pure
8:25
Presence,
8:26
detail
8:26
how
8:26
there
8:27
are
8:27
two
8:27
kinds
8:27
of
8:28
concepts.
8:28
Basic
8:29
concept,
8:29
which
8:29
is
8:29
the
8:30
pure
8:30
knowing
8:31
in
8:31
the
8:31
Yeshay
8:32
or
8:32
the
8:33
Gnosis
8:34
or
8:35
of
8:35
mystical
8:36
experience,
8:37
which
8:37
is
8:37
unknowing,
8:38
but
8:38
that
8:38
knowing
8:39
implies
8:40
any
8:40
specific
8:41
knowing
8:41
implies
8:42
there's
8:42
a
8:42
concept
8:43
that
8:43
then
8:44
when
8:44
it's
8:45
abstracted,
8:46
it
8:46
becomes
8:46
a
8:47
normal
8:47
ordinary
8:48
concept
8:48
in
8:48
the
8:48
mind.
8:49
And
8:49
that's
8:50
what
8:50
I
8:50
call
8:50
ordinary
8:50
concept.
8:51
And
8:51
those
8:52
the
8:52
ramification.
8:53
And
8:53
those
8:53
concepts
8:54
becomes
8:55
the
8:55
building
8:56
blocks
8:56
of
8:56
the
8:57
self.
8:57
So
8:57
there's
8:58
a
8:58
difference
8:58
between
8:59
awareness
9:00
and
9:00
knowing.
9:01
Yes,
9:02
knowing
9:03
is
9:03
another
9:03
dimension.
9:04
That's
9:04
a
9:04
dimension
9:05
pure
9:05
presence
9:06
has
9:06
in
9:06
it
9:06
a
9:07
knowing
9:07
capacity,
9:08
which
9:09
is
9:09
the
9:09
universal
9:10
mind,
9:10
which
9:10
is
9:11
the
9:12
foundation
9:12
of
9:12
our
9:13
individual
9:13
mind.
9:14
Because
9:14
the
9:14
mind
9:14
is
9:15
based
9:15
on
9:15
knowing.
9:16
There's
9:16
no
9:16
knowing,
9:17
there's
9:17
no
9:17
mind.
9:17
So
9:18
pure
9:18
awareness
9:19
is
9:19
really
9:19
no
9:19
mind.
9:20
There's
9:21
no
9:21
knowing
9:22
at
9:22
all
9:22
when
9:22
you
9:23
say
9:23
no
9:23
mind.
9:24
So
9:24
maybe
9:24
Zen
9:25
gets
9:25
into
9:25
it,
9:25
maybe
9:26
some
9:26
teaching,
9:26
but
9:27
I
9:28
don't
9:28
remember
9:28
reading
9:29
anywhere
9:29
where
9:29
it's
9:30
explicitly
9:30
discussed
9:31
as
9:32
in
9:33
the
9:34
distinction
9:34
between
9:34
the
9:35
two
9:35
kinds
9:35
of
9:36
concepts
9:37
exists,
9:37
which
9:37
is
9:38
two
9:38
kind
9:38
of
9:38
knowing.
9:39
And
9:39
that
9:39
is
9:39
very
9:39
important
9:40
for
9:41
a
9:41
deconstruction
9:42
process
9:43
that
9:43
happens
9:43
in
9:44
spiritual
9:44
practice.
9:45
And
9:46
so
9:46
it's
9:46
a
9:47
lot
9:47
of
9:48
detail.
9:48
And
9:48
some
9:49
listeners
9:50
probably
9:51
like
9:51
that.
9:51
Some
9:52
people
9:52
might
9:52
think
9:52
it's
9:52
complex.
9:53
And
9:53
it
9:54
is.
9:54
It's
9:55
a
9:55
lot
9:55
of
9:55
knowledge.
9:56
If
9:56
it's
9:56
a
9:56
lot,
9:56
you
9:57
could
9:57
call
9:57
it
9:57
complex.
9:58
But
9:58
it
9:58
is
9:58
clarifying
10:00
writing,
10:01
you
10:02
know.
10:02
And
10:03
you
10:03
also
10:03
point
10:04
out
10:04
amid
10:04
that
10:05
not
10:05
only
10:05
is
10:06
this
10:06
pure
10:07
awareness
10:07
transcend
10:09
concepts,
10:09
but
10:10
the
10:10
actual
10:11
experience
10:11
of
10:12
it
10:12
is
10:12
so,
10:13
so
10:13
refined,
10:14
for
10:14
want
10:15
of
10:15
a
10:15
better
10:15
word,
10:16
that
10:16
it
10:17
doesn't
10:17
even
10:17
feel.
10:18
You
10:18
can't
10:18
even
10:18
say
10:18
whether
10:19
that
10:19
it
10:19
exists
10:20
or
10:20
that
10:20
it
10:20
doesn't
10:21
exist.
10:21
It
10:21
kind
10:22
of
10:22
transcends
10:23
that
10:23
dichotomy
10:24
of
10:24
existence,
10:25
non
10:25
existence.
10:27
Yeah,
10:28
very
10:29
true.
10:29
And
10:31
because
10:32
sometimes
10:32
I
10:33
wonder
10:33
about
10:33
like
10:34
Dzouchen
10:34
presentation
10:35
when
10:36
I
10:36
read
10:36
Long
10:36
Champa
10:37
and
10:37
others.
10:38
You
10:38
talk
10:38
about
10:39
pure
10:39
awareness.
10:40
You
10:40
talk
10:40
about
10:40
awareness
10:42
as
10:43
beyond
10:43
dichotomies,
10:44
but
10:44
they
10:45
also
10:45
talk
10:45
about
10:46
us
10:46
as
10:47
including
10:47
knowing.
10:48
And
10:49
so
10:49
it's
10:50
not
10:50
very
10:50
distinctly.
10:52
It's
10:52
not
10:52
the
10:52
same
10:53
thing.
10:53
It's
10:53
not
10:53
the
10:53
same
10:54
thing
10:54
held
10:54
out.
10:55
Clearly.
10:56
I'd
10:56
like
10:56
to
10:56
see
10:58
talking
10:58
about
10:58
two
10:58
dimensions
10:59
at
10:59
the
10:59
same
10:59
time
11:00
and
11:00
not
11:01
differentiating
11:02
between
11:02
the
11:02
two.
11:03
Because
11:04
he
11:04
says
11:04
it's
11:05
pure
11:06
awareness
11:06
fashion
11:07
whatever.
11:08
And
11:08
beyond
11:09
being
11:09
and
11:09
not
11:09
being.
11:10
He
11:10
said
11:10
that
11:10
beyond
11:11
being
11:11
and
11:11
not
11:12
being.
11:13
However,
11:14
he
11:14
also
11:14
talks
11:15
about
11:15
knowing
11:17
because
11:17
rigpa
11:18
has
11:19
knowing
11:19
in
11:19
it.
11:20
So
11:20
it's
11:21
not
11:21
clear
11:21
there
11:22
in
11:22
that
11:22
formulation
11:24
how
11:24
knowing
11:25
and
11:26
pure
11:26
awareness
11:27
are
11:27
related.
11:28
Because
11:28
pure
11:29
awareness
11:29
means
11:30
no
11:30
knowing.
11:31
It's
11:31
beyond
11:32
knowing.
11:32
It
11:32
is
11:33
just
11:33
perception.
11:34
And
11:34
is
11:35
that
11:35
how
11:35
we
11:35
can
11:35
become
11:36
aware
11:36
of
11:37
the
11:37
ground
11:37
of
11:37
being,
11:39
just
11:39
pure
11:40
awareness,
11:41
without
11:42
knowing,
11:42
without
11:42
conceptualizing
11:43
it?
11:44
Is
11:44
that
11:44
a
11:44
desired
11:45
state
11:46
or
11:46
dimension
11:47
in
11:47
our
11:47
spiritual
11:48
journey
11:48
to.
11:49
I
11:49
don't
11:49
know
11:49
if
11:49
you
11:50
achieve
11:50
it
11:50
or
11:50
it
11:50
happens.
11:51
Yes,
11:52
we
11:52
will
11:52
discuss
11:53
why
11:53
it's
11:53
useful.
11:54
I
11:54
mean,
11:54
you
11:54
have.
11:55
We
11:55
won't
11:56
call
11:56
it
11:56
desired.
11:57
I
11:57
don't
11:57
know
11:57
if
11:57
anybody
11:58
desire.
11:59
They
11:59
don't
11:59
know
11:59
what
11:59
it
12:00
is.
12:00
I
12:00
knew
12:01
that
12:01
was
12:01
kind
12:01
of
12:01
wrong
12:01
when
12:01
I
12:02
said
12:02
it,
12:02
Hameed,
12:02
but
12:02
thank
12:03
you.
12:03
I
12:03
mean
12:04
most
12:04
people
12:04
desire
12:05
freedom
12:06
or
12:06
realization,
12:07
but
12:08
I
12:08
don't
12:08
know.
12:09
But
12:09
it
12:10
can
12:10
appear
12:11
at
12:11
some
12:11
point
12:11
if
12:12
you're
12:12
very
12:12
deep
12:12
in
12:13
the
12:13
process
12:13
and
12:14
you
12:14
know,
12:15
you
12:15
experience
12:16
a
12:16
dimension
12:17
of
12:17
pure
12:17
being,
12:18
a
12:18
presence
12:19
that
12:19
has
12:19
the
12:20
yeshay
12:21
or
12:21
the
12:22
noises
12:22
or
12:23
the
12:23
knowing
12:23
I
12:24
am
12:24
that.
12:25
You
12:25
see,
12:25
there's
12:26
no,
12:26
you
12:26
know,
12:27
I,
12:27
you
12:27
know,
12:27
am,
12:28
you
12:28
know
12:28
that
12:29
you
12:29
know
12:29
what
12:29
it
12:29
is.
12:30
And
12:31
then
12:31
the
12:32
pure
12:32
awareness
12:33
is
12:33
transcends
12:34
that.
12:35
It's
12:35
basically
12:36
pure
12:36
awareness
12:36
is
12:37
the
12:37
same
12:37
dimension
12:39
that
12:40
takes
12:40
off
12:40
knowing,
12:41
the
12:41
garb
12:41
of
12:42
knowing.
12:42
Just
12:43
awareness
12:43
is
12:44
present
12:44
and
12:44
pure
12:45
knowing
12:45
too.
12:46
Let
12:46
me
12:46
help
12:46
you
12:47
know,
12:47
here
12:47
Is
12:48
just
12:48
the
12:48
awareness
12:49
without
12:49
the
12:49
knowing
12:50
part.
12:51
And
12:51
could
12:51
awareness
12:52
be
12:52
just
12:54
the
12:54
space?
12:55
That's
12:55
probably
12:56
the
12:56
wrong
12:56
word.
12:56
But
12:56
that
12:56
everything
12:57
arises
12:57
in
12:58
before
12:58
manifestation.
12:59
It's
12:59
just
13:00
awareness.
13:01
Yeah,
13:02
I
13:02
mean
13:02
all
13:03
the
13:03
non
13:04
dual
13:04
dimension
13:04
can
13:05
be
13:05
seen
13:05
that
13:05
way
13:06
as
13:06
we
13:07
can
13:07
experience
13:07
things
13:08
arising
13:08
from
13:08
them.
13:09
So
13:09
yes,
13:10
this
13:11
will
13:11
kind
13:11
of
13:11
happen.
13:12
Usually
13:13
when
13:13
we
13:13
get
13:13
to
13:13
a
13:13
dimension
13:14
of
13:14
the
13:14
absolute,
13:15
we
13:15
get
13:15
to
13:15
the
13:15
really
13:16
more
13:16
of
13:16
what
13:16
I
13:17
call
13:17
the
13:17
source
13:17
dimension,
13:19
you
13:19
know,
13:19
where
13:20
everything
13:21
but
13:21
you
13:21
can
13:21
experience
13:22
everything
13:23
arising
13:23
from
13:24
any
13:24
one
13:24
of
13:24
them.
13:25
And
13:25
in
13:25
fact
13:26
the
13:26
chapter
13:26
number
13:27
four
13:27
is
13:27
about
13:27
how
13:28
things
13:28
arise.
13:29
We
13:29
even
13:30
discuss
13:30
the
13:30
process
13:31
of
13:31
the
13:32
arising.
13:32
What
13:32
does
13:33
that
13:33
mean?
13:33
Arising?
13:34
Right.
13:35
Is
13:35
it
13:35
really
13:35
arising?
13:38
That's
13:38
a
13:38
whole
13:39
other
13:39
thing.
13:40
But
13:40
we're
13:41
staying
13:41
now
13:41
with
13:42
pure
13:42
awareness.
13:42
And
13:43
I'm
13:43
trying
13:43
to,
13:44
you
13:44
know,
13:44
clarify
13:45
you
13:46
know,
13:47
as
13:47
much
13:47
as
13:47
possible.
13:48
They
13:48
can.
13:49
The
13:49
pure
13:50
awareness
13:50
is
13:51
really
13:51
there
13:51
is
13:51
perception
13:52
without
13:53
knowing
13:53
what
13:53
we
13:54
perceive.
13:55
So
13:55
it
13:55
is
13:56
important.
13:56
We're
13:57
all
13:57
even
13:57
ordinary
13:58
experience.
13:58
There's
13:59
awareness,
14:00
but
14:00
it
14:00
is
14:01
the
14:01
awareness
14:01
is
14:02
not
14:02
separate
14:02
from
14:02
the
14:02
knowing
14:03
and
14:03
the
14:03
normal
14:04
awareness.
14:05
In
14:05
the
14:05
ordinary
14:05
awareness
14:06
somebody
14:06
is
14:06
aware,
14:07
they
14:07
perceive
14:07
and
14:08
they
14:08
say
14:08
no,
14:08
I'm
14:09
perceiving
14:09
and
14:09
I'm
14:10
perceiving
14:10
a
14:10
tree,
14:11
right?
14:12
And
14:12
pure
14:13
awareness,
14:13
where
14:14
I'm
14:14
pure
14:14
awareness,
14:15
I'm
14:15
perceiving
14:16
the
14:16
tree,
14:16
but
14:16
I
14:17
don't
14:17
know
14:17
it's
14:17
a
14:17
tree.
14:18
So
14:19
there's
14:19
a
14:20
kind
14:20
of
14:20
a
14:20
gnosis,
14:21
a
14:21
pre
14:22
conceptual
14:22
gnosis.
14:23
But
14:23
there's
14:24
no.
14:24
None
14:25
of
14:25
the
14:25
awareness
14:26
is
14:26
prior
14:27
to
14:27
the
14:27
conceptual
14:28
elaboration
14:29
of
14:29
identification,
14:30
categorization.
14:31
Yeah,
14:32
I
14:33
don't
14:33
know
14:33
that
14:33
can
14:34
be
14:34
called
14:34
gnosis.
14:35
Okay.
14:36
You
14:36
know,
14:36
I
14:37
don't.
14:37
Because
14:38
definition
14:38
of
14:39
gnosis
14:39
is
14:39
immediate
14:40
knowing
14:41
and
14:41
not
14:42
just
14:42
awareness.
14:43
Here
14:43
is
14:43
immediate
14:44
awareness
14:45
shown
14:45
of
14:46
the
14:46
knowing.
14:46
So
14:47
it's
14:47
beyond
14:47
gnosis.
14:51
It's
14:51
just
14:51
pure
14:51
perception.
14:53
Seeing
14:54
and
14:54
not
14:55
knowing
14:55
what
14:55
you
14:55
see.
14:56
Just
14:56
like
14:57
a
14:57
little
14:57
baby.
14:58
See,
14:58
they
14:59
perceive
14:59
everything
15:00
but
15:00
they
15:00
have
15:00
no
15:00
idea
15:01
what
15:01
they
15:01
are
15:03
because
15:03
the
15:04
capacity
15:04
hasn't
15:05
developed.
15:06
You
15:06
know,
15:07
is
15:07
this
15:07
pure
15:07
awareness,
15:08
this
15:08
awareness
15:09
Is
15:09
that
15:10
the
15:10
unmanifest
15:12
emptiness
15:13
from
15:13
which
15:14
knowing
15:15
and
15:15
everything
15:16
else
15:16
the
15:16
rest
15:16
of
15:16
the
15:16
universe
15:17
manifests
15:18
itself?
15:19
Is
15:19
that
15:19
a
15:19
accurate
15:20
statement?
15:20
Say
15:20
that.
15:21
But
15:21
we
15:21
could
15:21
go
15:22
to
15:22
another
15:22
dimension
15:23
that
15:23
is
15:23
deeper.
15:23
As
15:24
we
15:24
could
15:24
say
15:25
is
15:25
the
15:25
souls
15:25
wall
15:26
manifestation.
15:26
I
15:27
was
15:27
afraid
15:27
of
15:27
that.
15:28
Okay,
15:28
we
15:29
get
15:29
to
15:29
that,
15:29
you
15:30
know,
15:31
in
15:31
a
15:31
couple
15:32
more
15:32
meetings.
15:34
Yet
15:34
to
15:34
actually
15:35
discuss
15:35
that
15:36
in
15:36
terms
15:37
of
15:38
what
15:38
I
15:38
call
15:38
the
15:38
source
15:39
dimension
15:41
or
15:41
the
15:42
pure
15:42
awareness.
15:43
You
15:43
can
15:43
experience
15:44
things
15:46
at
15:46
the
15:46
ground
15:46
of
15:47
being.
15:47
Each
15:47
one
15:48
of
15:48
them
15:48
when
15:48
we
15:48
are
15:48
realizing,
15:49
we
15:50
see
15:50
it
15:50
as
15:50
the
15:50
ground
15:51
of
15:51
reality.
15:52
Each
15:53
one
15:53
can
15:53
be
15:53
seen
15:54
as
15:54
the
15:54
ground
15:54
reality.
15:55
But
15:55
you
15:55
go
15:55
to
15:55
the
15:56
next
15:56
one.
15:56
That
15:57
one
15:57
feels
15:57
like
15:57
the
15:58
ground
15:58
is
15:58
the
15:58
one
15:58
before
15:59
it.
16:00
This
16:00
one,
16:01
pure
16:01
awareness
16:02
is
16:02
the
16:02
ground
16:03
of
16:03
pure
16:03
knowing,
16:04
pure
16:05
presence
16:05
or
16:06
pure
16:06
being.
16:07
This
16:07
is
16:08
the
16:08
ground
16:08
of
16:08
it.
16:09
You
16:10
know.
16:10
And
16:10
Amit,
16:11
you
16:11
list
16:12
several
16:12
dichotomies
16:13
that
16:13
kind
16:14
of
16:14
the
16:14
mind.
16:15
I
16:15
guess
16:15
the
16:15
Advaitic
16:16
Vedanta
16:17
term
16:17
would
16:17
be
16:18
superimposition.
16:19
Superimposes
16:21
over
16:21
and
16:21
obscures
16:22
non
16:23
conceptual
16:23
awareness
16:24
in
16:24
the
16:25
one
16:25
which
16:25
is
16:25
for
16:25
you
16:26
emphasize
16:27
being.
16:27
Very
16:27
important
16:28
for
16:28
practicing
16:29
is
16:30
the
16:30
dichotomy
16:31
of
16:31
being
16:31
and
16:32
doing.
16:32
And
16:33
I
16:33
want
16:33
to
16:34
lead
16:34
into
16:34
this
16:34
a
16:34
little
16:34
and
16:35
I
16:35
want
16:35
to.
16:35
This
16:36
is
16:36
really
16:36
important
16:37
to
16:37
me
16:37
because
16:37
this
16:37
is
16:38
a.
16:38
You
16:39
point
16:39
to
16:39
this
16:39
as
16:39
a
16:40
sticking
16:41
place
16:41
and
16:42
it's
16:42
actually
16:42
where
16:44
I'm
16:44
stuck
16:44
in
16:44
my
16:45
own
16:45
practice.
16:46
I
16:46
have
16:47
a
16:47
lot
16:47
of
16:47
interest
16:47
in
16:48
this.
16:48
And
16:48
you.
16:48
So
16:49
you're
16:49
coming
16:49
back
16:49
to
16:49
the
16:50
same
16:50
point
16:50
you
16:50
ask.
16:51
I'm
16:52
sorry
16:52
I
16:53
didn't
16:53
answer
16:54
you
16:54
right
16:54
away
16:54
because
16:55
we
16:55
had
16:55
to
16:55
sort
16:55
of.
16:58
Right,
16:58
well
16:58
that's
16:59
fine.
16:59
You
17:00
know,
17:00
the
17:00
ground.
17:01
But
17:01
I'm
17:01
laying
17:01
it
17:02
for
17:02
you
17:02
listeners.
17:03
Yeah,
17:03
yeah,
17:04
thank
17:04
you
17:04
very
17:04
much.
17:06
And
17:06
some
17:06
people,
17:06
they
17:07
might
17:07
be
17:07
just
17:07
coming
17:08
to
17:08
this
17:08
meeting.
17:09
They
17:09
don't.
17:09
Haven't
17:10
listened
17:10
to
17:10
the
17:10
next
17:10
one.
17:11
Otherwise.
17:13
Wow,
17:13
that'll
17:13
be
17:13
something.
17:14
Yeah,
17:17
well,
17:17
yeah,
17:18
some
17:18
people
17:18
hear
17:18
about
17:19
it,
17:19
they're
17:19
going
17:19
to
17:20
find
17:20
this
17:20
meeting.
17:20
And
17:21
so
17:21
what
17:21
does
17:22
people
17:22
talk
17:23
about
17:23
it?
17:25
They
17:25
won't
17:25
know
17:25
what
17:26
we
17:26
talked
17:26
about.
17:30
Well,
17:31
I
17:31
have
17:32
to
17:32
go
17:32
back
17:32
over
17:32
these
17:33
a
17:33
couple
17:33
of
17:33
times
17:33
myself
17:34
too.
17:36
This
17:36
is
17:37
true
17:37
what
17:38
you're
17:38
saying,
17:38
Roger.
17:39
And
17:40
non
17:41
conceptual,
17:41
because
17:41
there
17:42
are
17:42
no
17:42
concepts,
17:44
it
17:44
challenges
17:45
all
17:46
the
17:46
different
17:46
dimension
17:47
of
17:47
concepts.
17:49
Right.
17:50
And
17:50
we
17:50
realize
17:51
that
17:51
most
17:51
concepts
17:52
are
17:52
based
17:53
on
17:53
dichotomies.
17:55
There's
17:55
a
17:55
long
17:55
and
17:56
short,
17:58
good
17:58
and
17:58
bad.
18:00
Right.
18:01
Dark
18:01
and
18:01
light,
18:04
you
18:04
know,
18:04
life
18:04
and
18:05
death.
18:06
All
18:06
of
18:07
these
18:07
dichotomy
18:08
concepts
18:09
mostly
18:10
come
18:10
in
18:10
dichotomies
18:11
and
18:11
come
18:12
in
18:12
opposites
18:13
to
18:13
define
18:14
themselves.
18:15
They
18:15
come
18:15
in
18:15
pairs.
18:17
So
18:17
the
18:17
one
18:17
you
18:18
mentioned
18:18
is
18:18
one
18:18
of
18:18
them.
18:19
Fall
18:19
in
18:19
pairs.
18:20
You
18:20
say
18:20
that
18:21
many
18:21
people
18:22
can,
18:23
or
18:23
many
18:23
of
18:23
your
18:24
students
18:25
can
18:25
experience
18:26
non
18:26
conceptual
18:27
awareness
18:27
when
18:28
they're
18:28
say
18:28
for
18:28
example,
18:29
sitting
18:30
or
18:30
in
18:31
quiet
18:32
rest.
18:33
But
18:34
most
18:35
find
18:35
it
18:35
very
18:36
difficult
18:36
to
18:37
operate
18:37
from
18:38
non
18:39
conceptual
18:39
awareness
18:40
because
18:41
when
18:41
they're
18:41
busy
18:42
or
18:42
active.
18:42
Maybe
18:42
I'll
18:43
speak
18:43
personally
18:43
here
18:44
because
18:44
this
18:44
is
18:45
where
18:45
I'm
18:46
really
18:46
wanting
18:46
some
18:46
help.
18:47
Yes,
18:48
it's
18:48
at
18:48
this
18:49
stage,
18:49
after
18:49
many
18:50
years
18:50
of
18:50
practice,
18:51
it's
18:51
fairly
18:51
easy
18:52
in
18:52
say
18:52
sitting
18:53
meditation
18:53
just
18:54
to
18:54
rest
18:54
in
18:54
non
18:54
conceptual
18:55
awareness.
18:56
But
18:56
for
18:57
me
18:57
it's
18:57
very
18:57
challenging
18:58
to
18:58
maintain
18:59
that,
19:00
to
19:00
develop
19:01
a
19:01
continuity
19:02
during
19:03
activity.
19:04
For
19:04
example,
19:04
as
19:04
we're
19:05
talking
19:05
now,
19:05
I'm
19:06
flickering
19:06
in
19:06
and
19:07
out
19:07
of
19:07
that
19:07
there's
19:08
sometimes
19:09
there's
19:09
a
19:10
recognition
19:10
and
19:11
sometimes
19:11
I'm
19:12
just
19:12
lost
19:12
back
19:13
into
19:13
the
19:14
conceptual
19:14
mechanisms
19:15
of
19:15
mind.
19:16
And
19:16
you
19:17
say
19:17
that's
19:17
very
19:17
common,
19:18
very
19:18
challenging.
19:19
And
19:20
most
19:20
people
19:20
can't
19:21
help
19:21
but
19:21
fall
19:22
into
19:23
this
19:23
dichotomy
19:24
of
19:24
differentiating
19:25
being
19:26
from
19:27
doing
19:27
and
19:28
mistaking
19:28
and
19:28
thinking
19:29
when
19:29
they're
19:29
doing
19:29
something
19:30
they're
19:30
not
19:30
actually
19:31
being.
19:32
So
19:33
it
19:33
seems
19:33
like
19:34
you
19:34
give
19:34
a
19:34
kind
19:34
of
19:35
almost
19:35
like
19:36
a
19:36
cognitive
19:36
therapy
19:38
approach
19:39
to
19:39
how
19:39
to
19:41
move
19:41
beyond
19:41
this
19:42
dichotomy.
19:43
So
19:43
I
19:44
guess
19:44
my
19:44
basic
19:45
question
19:45
is,
19:46
okay,
19:47
how
19:47
do
19:47
we
19:47
work
19:48
with
19:48
this?
19:48
How
19:49
do
19:49
we
19:49
develop
19:50
the
19:50
kind
19:50
of
19:50
continuity
19:51
of
19:51
non
19:51
conceptual
19:52
awareness
19:53
that
19:53
you're
19:53
pointing
19:53
to
19:54
as
19:54
a
19:54
possibility?
19:55
Yeah.
19:55
And
19:55
what
19:55
does
19:55
that
19:56
feel
19:56
like
19:56
when
19:56
you're
19:57
operating
19:57
from
19:57
that
19:58
space?
19:59
Well,
19:59
that's
20:00
a
20:00
profound
20:00
question
20:01
and
20:01
has
20:02
many
20:02
facets
20:03
for
20:03
the
20:03
answers.
20:04
But
20:05
first
20:05
I
20:05
want
20:05
to
20:06
say
20:07
most
20:08
people
20:08
who
20:08
consider
20:09
themselves
20:09
realize
20:10
and
20:10
who
20:11
are
20:12
well
20:12
known
20:12
teachers
20:13
have
20:14
that
20:14
problem
20:15
when
20:15
they're
20:16
talking
20:16
about
20:16
it
20:16
and
20:17
they're
20:17
sitting,
20:17
meditating,
20:18
they
20:18
are
20:18
in
20:18
that
20:18
state.
20:19
They
20:19
start
20:20
living
20:20
their
20:20
life.
20:21
They
20:21
can't
20:22
stay
20:22
in
20:22
that
20:22
place.
20:23
They
20:24
become
20:24
what
20:24
I
20:24
call
20:25
the
20:25
doer,
20:27
you
20:27
see.
20:28
So
20:29
there's
20:29
the
20:29
self
20:30
as
20:30
identity,
20:32
you
20:32
know,
20:33
and
20:33
the
20:33
self
20:33
as
20:34
the
20:34
doer.
20:35
The
20:35
doer
20:36
is
20:36
one
20:37
manifestation
20:37
of
20:38
the
20:38
self.
20:39
And
20:40
to
20:40
be
20:40
free
20:41
from
20:41
the
20:41
doer
20:41
is
20:42
not
20:42
easy
20:43
for
20:43
most
20:43
people
20:44
don't
20:44
know
20:44
how
20:44
to
20:45
operate,
20:45
how
20:45
to
20:46
function
20:47
from
20:48
any
20:49
one
20:49
of
20:49
those
20:49
deep
20:50
dimensions.
20:50
Non
20:51
conceptual,
20:51
one
20:52
of
20:52
the
20:52
most
20:52
difficult.
20:53
Like
20:53
how
20:54
do
20:54
you
20:55
live
20:55
your
20:55
life
20:55
when
20:56
life
20:57
has
20:57
many
20:57
things
20:58
and
20:58
specific
20:59
categories
21:00
and
21:00
stuff
21:00
and.
21:01
And
21:02
so
21:02
that's
21:02
why
21:02
I
21:03
usually
21:03
think
21:04
in
21:04
sitting
21:05
meditation
21:05
or
21:06
any
21:06
practice,
21:07
to
21:07
be
21:07
in
21:07
the
21:07
state
21:09
is
21:09
half
21:10
of
21:10
the
21:10
realization.
21:12
The
21:12
other
21:12
half
21:13
is
21:13
actualization.
21:15
Actualization
21:16
is
21:16
to
21:17
actualize
21:17
it
21:17
in
21:17
life
21:19
and
21:19
living,
21:20
functioning,
21:20
doing,
21:22
that's
21:22
the
21:22
other
21:22
half.
21:23
But
21:23
it
21:24
means
21:25
dealing,
21:26
deconstructing
21:27
the
21:27
doer
21:29
and
21:29
even
21:30
having
21:30
the
21:30
notion
21:31
that
21:31
the
21:31
doer
21:32
can
21:32
be
21:32
deconstructed.
21:34
You
21:34
know,
21:34
many
21:35
people
21:35
don't
21:35
know
21:35
that
21:37
yes,
21:37
I
21:37
am
21:37
in
21:37
this
21:37
state,
21:38
but
21:38
then
21:38
when
21:38
I
21:38
go
21:39
about
21:39
my
21:39
business,
21:40
I
21:40
become
21:41
this
21:41
individual
21:42
person
21:42
who
21:42
does
21:43
these
21:43
things,
21:44
but
21:44
not
21:44
this,
21:45
the
21:46
usual
21:46
self,
21:46
the
21:47
ego
21:47
self,
21:47
you
21:48
know.
21:49
Now
21:49
there
21:49
are
21:49
many
21:50
solutions
21:51
to
21:51
this
21:52
depending
21:52
on
21:52
which
21:52
dimension.
21:53
And
21:54
this
21:54
dimension
21:54
has
21:55
a
21:55
solution
21:56
which
21:57
is
21:57
first
21:57
of
21:57
all
21:58
to
21:58
recognize,
21:58
as
21:59
Roger
21:59
was
22:00
pointing
22:00
to,
22:01
there
22:01
is
22:02
a
22:02
difference
22:03
between
22:03
being
22:03
and
22:04
doing.
22:05
Being
22:05
and
22:06
doing
22:07
are
22:07
a
22:07
polarity,
22:09
a
22:09
conceptual
22:10
polarity.
22:11
And
22:11
those
22:11
conceptual
22:12
polarity
22:13
are
22:13
exposed
22:14
in
22:14
this
22:14
dimension.
22:15
They
22:16
are
22:16
actually
22:17
in
22:17
fact
22:18
the
22:18
expo
22:19
exposition.
22:20
And
22:20
the
22:20
challenge
22:20
appears
22:21
by
22:21
the
22:22
difficulty
22:22
that
22:23
Roger,
22:23
you're
22:23
mentioning
22:25
seeing
22:25
that
22:25
dilemma
22:26
can
22:27
reveal
22:28
that
22:28
there
22:28
is
22:29
a
22:29
misconception
22:30
polarity
22:31
between
22:32
being
22:32
and
22:32
doing,
22:33
sitting
22:33
and
22:33
meditation,
22:34
just
22:34
being
22:34
in
22:35
that
22:35
place
22:36
or
22:36
getting
22:37
up
22:37
and
22:37
doing.
22:38
So
22:38
first
22:38
of
22:38
all,
22:39
one
22:39
of
22:40
the
22:40
things
22:40
that
22:40
this
22:40
dimension
22:41
helps
22:42
with
22:42
is
22:43
to
22:43
show,
22:44
to
22:44
reveal
22:45
that
22:45
there
22:45
are
22:45
concepts
22:46
involved,
22:48
you
22:48
know,
22:48
that
22:49
underlies
22:50
the
22:50
whole
22:52
construct,
22:52
the
22:52
whole
22:53
way
22:54
of
22:55
looking
22:55
at
22:55
things,
22:56
doing
22:57
and
22:57
being
22:57
and
22:58
life
22:58
and
22:58
all
22:59
that.
23:00
Those
23:00
basic.
23:01
Because
23:01
the
23:02
dichotomies
23:02
here
23:03
we're
23:03
talking
23:03
about
23:03
very
23:04
basic
23:04
fundamental
23:05
dichotomies
23:06
that
23:06
most
23:07
people
23:07
and
23:07
hears
23:08
he
23:08
take
23:08
to
23:08
be
23:09
just
23:09
facts
23:10
of
23:10
reality.
23:12
People
23:12
don't
23:12
think
23:12
of
23:13
them
23:13
matter
23:14
conceptual
23:14
dichotomy.
23:15
They
23:15
can
23:15
go
23:16
beyond
23:17
most
23:17
people
23:18
think.
23:18
What
23:18
do
23:18
you
23:18
mean
23:18
go
23:19
beyond
23:19
it?
23:20
I
23:20
won't
23:20
have
23:20
a
23:20
life.
23:21
I
23:21
won't
23:21
know
23:21
what
23:21
to
23:22
do.
23:22
That's
23:22
what
23:22
people
23:23
think.
23:23
There
23:24
is
23:24
terror,
23:24
there
23:25
is
23:25
an
23:25
experience
23:25
of
23:25
annihilation,
23:26
that
23:27
there
23:27
is
23:27
ego,
23:28
death
23:28
that
23:29
are
23:29
all
23:30
needed
23:30
to
23:30
go
23:31
beyond
23:31
those
23:31
conception
23:32
dichotomies.
23:32
They're
23:33
not
23:33
easy.
23:33
It's
23:34
not
23:34
like
23:34
you
23:34
know
23:34
it
23:35
in
23:35
your
23:35
mind
23:35
and
23:35
you,
23:36
no,
23:37
you
23:37
go
23:37
through
23:37
an
23:37
actual
23:38
deep
23:39
transformation
23:40
that
23:40
leads
23:41
to
23:41
a
23:41
different
23:41
kind
23:42
death
23:42
which
23:42
is
23:43
the
23:43
death
23:43
of
23:43
mind
23:44
and
23:44
which
23:45
include
23:45
the
23:45
dense
23:46
of
23:46
the
23:47
doer.
23:47
And
23:48
that
23:48
death
23:49
for
23:49
most
23:49
people
23:50
is
23:50
terrifying.
23:51
For
23:52
most
23:52
people
23:52
say,
23:53
well,
23:54
the
23:54
doer
23:54
dies.
23:55
Who's
23:55
going
23:55
to
23:56
do
23:56
these
23:56
things?
23:57
You
23:57
see,
23:58
who's
23:58
going
23:59
to
23:59
live,
23:59
who's
23:59
going
23:59
to
24:00
do
24:00
the
24:00
jobs,
24:00
who's
24:01
going
24:01
to
24:02
cook,
24:02
who's
24:02
going
24:03
to
24:03
drive
24:03
the
24:03
car.
24:04
But
24:04
there's
24:05
still
24:05
caught
24:05
in
24:05
that
24:06
concept
24:06
that
24:06
somebody
24:07
needs
24:07
to.
24:08
There's
24:09
somebody
24:10
and
24:10
a
24:10
doer
24:11
who
24:11
does
24:11
these
24:11
things.
24:12
That
24:12
means
24:13
the
24:13
concept
24:13
is
24:13
still
24:14
operative.
24:15
Yeah.
24:15
And
24:15
Amit,
24:16
if
24:16
I
24:16
can
24:16
just
24:16
interpolate,
24:17
it
24:17
also
24:17
feels
24:18
like
24:18
experientially,
24:19
if
24:20
I
24:20
trace
24:20
it
24:21
back,
24:21
it
24:21
feels
24:21
like
24:21
there's
24:22
a
24:22
lack
24:22
of
24:22
trust
24:23
that
24:24
being
24:24
in
24:25
being
24:26
that
24:26
some
24:27
sort
24:27
of
24:27
basic
24:27
distrust
24:28
that
24:29
if
24:29
there's
24:30
not
24:30
an
24:30
I
24:30
doing
24:31
it
24:31
then
24:31
it
24:31
won't
24:32
happen.
24:32
But
24:32
that's
24:33
a
24:33
kind
24:33
of
24:33
distrust
24:34
of
24:34
being.
24:34
It
24:34
feels
24:35
like.
24:35
It
24:35
feels
24:35
like
24:36
annihilation.
24:37
Yeah,
24:37
yeah.
24:37
There
24:38
is
24:38
a
24:38
basic
24:38
distrust
24:40
that
24:40
the
24:41
ego
24:41
has.
24:42
Ego
24:43
thinks
24:43
it's
24:43
needed
24:44
basically
24:45
and
24:46
true
24:46
for
24:46
most
24:47
of
24:47
life
24:47
it
24:47
is
24:47
needed.
24:48
So
24:49
when
24:49
you
24:49
get
24:49
to
24:49
this
24:50
stage,
24:52
that
24:53
lack
24:54
of
24:54
trusting
24:55
being
24:55
will
24:56
come
24:56
to
24:56
the
24:56
rescue.
24:57
A
24:57
being
24:58
will
24:58
show
24:59
what
24:59
happens.
25:00
You
25:01
know,
25:01
that's
25:02
a
25:02
deep
25:02
level
25:02
of
25:03
trust
25:03
need
25:03
to
25:03
happen.
25:04
But
25:04
as
25:05
John
25:05
said,
25:06
to
25:06
get
25:06
there
25:07
requires
25:08
dealing
25:08
with
25:09
fear
25:09
and
25:10
terror.
25:10
And.
25:11
And
25:11
that
25:11
distrust
25:12
has
25:12
a
25:12
history
25:13
too.
25:13
Different
25:14
people
25:14
have
25:14
different
25:14
level
25:15
of
25:15
trust
25:15
or
25:15
distrust
25:16
and
25:17
that's
25:17
because
25:17
of
25:18
their
25:18
history,
25:19
how
25:19
they
25:19
do
25:19
if
25:20
they
25:20
develop
25:21
lots
25:21
of
25:21
Trauma.
25:22
It's
25:22
hard
25:22
for
25:22
them
25:22
to
25:22
trust
25:23
now
25:24
somebody
25:24
who
25:24
had
25:24
a
25:24
lot
25:25
of
25:25
love.
25:25
It's
25:25
easy
25:26
for
25:26
them
25:26
to
25:26
let
25:26
go
25:26
and
25:27
begin
25:27
to
25:27
trust.
25:28
Learn
25:28
to
25:28
trust
25:29
doesn't
25:29
come
25:30
automatically,
25:31
but
25:31
it's
25:32
easier
25:32
process.
25:33
So
25:34
the
25:34
trust
25:34
is
25:34
an
25:35
important
25:35
thing.
25:36
But
25:36
that
25:37
is
25:37
a
25:37
whole
25:39
thing
25:39
about
25:40
the
25:40
question
25:40
of
25:41
trust
25:41
that
25:42
I
25:42
usually
25:43
dealt
25:43
with
25:44
it
25:44
in
25:44
another
25:44
dimension
25:45
that
25:45
deals
25:46
with
25:46
question,
25:46
trust
25:47
and
25:47
distrust
25:48
and
25:48
more
25:49
here.
25:50
By
25:50
the
25:51
time
25:51
in
25:51
my
25:52
work,
25:52
by
25:52
the
25:52
time
25:53
I
25:53
came
25:53
to
25:53
this,
25:54
that
25:54
trust
25:54
was
25:55
established.
25:55
A
25:55
while
25:56
ago,
25:56
I
25:57
still
25:57
had
25:57
to
25:57
go
25:58
through
25:58
letting
25:58
go
25:58
of
25:59
my
25:59
mind.
25:59
I
25:59
didn't
25:59
know
26:00
I
26:00
could
26:00
let
26:00
go
26:00
of
26:00
my
26:00
mind
26:01
that
26:01
way.
26:03
At
26:03
the
26:04
beginning
26:04
it
26:04
felt
26:05
like,
26:05
what's
26:05
the
26:05
hell
26:06
going
26:06
on?
26:08
I
26:08
don't
26:08
know
26:09
that
26:09
I'm
26:09
unclear
26:10
or
26:11
losing
26:11
it
26:12
or
26:12
what.
26:13
Because
26:14
things
26:14
were
26:15
changing,
26:16
my
26:16
mind
26:16
was
26:17
sort
26:17
of
26:17
dissolving,
26:18
you
26:18
know,
26:19
and
26:20
it.
26:20
Feels
26:20
like
26:20
at
26:20
every
26:21
major
26:22
step,
26:22
feels
26:23
like
26:23
a
26:23
loss
26:24
of
26:24
some
26:25
kind.
26:25
It
26:26
is
26:27
like
26:27
a
26:27
loss,
26:27
and
26:28
that's
26:28
why
26:28
it's
26:28
called
26:29
a
26:29
death,
26:29
you
26:29
know,
26:29
the
26:30
loss.
26:31
But
26:31
there's
26:31
a
26:32
basic
26:32
discovered
26:33
an
26:33
okayness
26:34
with
26:34
the
26:34
process.
26:35
It's
26:35
okay.
26:36
That's
26:36
the
26:37
trust
26:37
that
26:38
Raj
26:38
was
26:38
talking
26:39
about.
26:39
The
26:39
trust
26:39
is
26:40
the
26:40
feeling.
26:40
It's
26:41
okay,
26:41
it
26:42
will
26:42
work
26:42
out.
26:43
There
26:43
is
26:44
holding
26:45
that
26:45
true
26:45
nature
26:46
of
26:46
being
26:47
provide
26:47
that
26:48
heaven.
26:48
It's,
26:49
it's
26:49
natural.
26:50
I
26:50
mean,
26:50
the
26:50
baby
26:50
has
26:51
that,
26:51
that
26:52
trust.
26:52
They
26:53
don't
26:53
know
26:53
things
26:53
can
26:54
go
26:54
bad.
26:54
They
26:54
just
26:55
run
26:55
around,
26:56
do
26:56
their
26:56
thing.
26:56
Only
26:57
when
26:57
they
26:57
get
26:57
clobbered,
26:58
they
26:58
start
26:58
learning.
26:59
Uh
26:59
oh.
27:00
In
27:00
reality,
27:01
this
27:02
world
27:02
is
27:02
not
27:03
as
27:03
big
27:04
as
27:04
I
27:04
thought.
27:04
You
27:05
know,
27:05
we're
27:05
born
27:06
with
27:06
trust,
27:06
you
27:07
see,
27:07
but
27:08
we
27:08
lose
27:08
it
27:08
because
27:09
of
27:09
what
27:09
happens.
27:10
And
27:10
then
27:11
we
27:11
can
27:11
regain
27:11
it
27:12
because
27:12
it's
27:12
natural.
27:13
Trust
27:14
is
27:14
inherent
27:15
in
27:16
our
27:16
true
27:16
nature,
27:17
our
27:17
true
27:17
beingness.
27:19
So
27:19
when
27:19
we
27:19
get
27:19
to
27:20
this
27:20
level
27:21
of
27:22
realization,
27:23
when
27:23
we
27:24
are
27:24
so
27:25
trusting,
27:25
we
27:25
can
27:25
let
27:26
go
27:26
of
27:26
our
27:26
knowingness.
27:28
Now
27:28
we
27:28
could
27:28
get
27:29
into
27:29
the.
27:29
How
27:29
does
27:30
doing
27:30
happen?
27:31
No
27:31
doer
27:33
from
27:34
this
27:34
dimension.
27:34
Doing
27:35
happened
27:36
because
27:36
everything
27:37
happens,
27:38
including
27:39
doing
27:39
on
27:40
its
27:40
own.
27:41
Nobody
27:41
does
27:42
it.
27:43
So
27:44
it's
27:45
not
27:45
like
27:45
I'm
27:46
driving
27:46
my
27:46
car.
27:47
No,
27:48
the
27:48
whole
27:49
car
27:49
and
27:50
the
27:51
road,
27:51
all
27:51
of
27:52
it
27:52
happens,
27:53
including
27:54
the
27:54
driving.
27:55
There
27:55
is
27:55
no
27:55
individual
27:57
operating.
27:58
The
27:58
whole
27:58
universe
27:59
function
28:01
as
28:01
one
28:01
unified
28:02
fabric
28:03
of
28:03
reality
28:04
that,
28:05
you
28:05
know,
28:05
takes
28:06
us
28:06
to
28:06
the
28:06
next
28:08
chapter,
28:08
which
28:09
is
28:09
about
28:10
the
28:10
dynamism
28:11
of
28:11
being.
28:11
But
28:12
we
28:12
don't
28:12
want
28:12
to
28:12
go
28:13
there
28:13
yet.
28:14
Yeah,
28:15
I'll
28:15
try.
28:15
I'm
28:15
always
28:15
galloping
28:16
ahead
28:16
here.
28:17
But
28:17
there's
28:18
a
28:18
sense
28:19
of
28:19
when
28:19
you
28:19
let
28:19
go
28:19
of
28:20
the
28:20
doer,
28:21
it's
28:21
still
28:22
going
28:22
on,
28:22
but
28:23
it's
28:23
more
28:23
the
28:23
perception.
28:24
You're
28:24
being
28:24
done
28:25
or
28:25
whatever
28:26
you
28:26
thought
28:26
you
28:26
were.
28:27
It's
28:27
not
28:27
doing,
28:28
it's
28:29
just
28:29
the
28:29
universe
28:30
being
28:30
done.
28:31
If
28:31
that.
28:33
Yeah.
28:33
So
28:34
that
28:34
is
28:35
you're
28:35
fully
28:36
grounded
28:37
in
28:37
this
28:38
realization
28:40
then
28:40
whether
28:41
you
28:41
are
28:42
sitting
28:42
in
28:43
meditation
28:43
or
28:43
you're
28:44
walking,
28:44
it's
28:44
the
28:45
same
28:45
thing,
28:46
the
28:46
same
28:47
state.
28:47
Even
28:48
the
28:48
sitting
28:48
is
28:49
manifesting
28:49
by
28:50
itself.
28:50
You're
28:51
not
28:51
sitting,
28:52
there's
28:52
nobody
28:52
sitting.
28:53
There's
28:53
just
28:54
reality
28:55
aware
28:56
of
28:56
itself.
28:57
So
28:58
when
28:58
you
28:58
get
28:59
up,
28:59
it's
28:59
nothing.
28:59
You're
29:00
not
29:00
getting
29:00
up.
29:01
Reality
29:02
is
29:02
manifesting
29:04
that
29:04
appearance
29:05
of
29:05
somebody
29:06
getting
29:07
up,
29:07
but
29:08
that
29:08
somebody.
29:09
Because
29:09
non
29:09
dual
29:10
nothing
29:10
is
29:10
separate.
29:11
It's
29:11
one
29:11
unified
29:12
fabric.
29:12
The
29:13
whole
29:13
universe
29:13
is
29:13
one
29:14
thing.
29:14
There's
29:14
no
29:15
individual
29:16
in
29:16
this
29:16
universe.
29:17
There's
29:18
the
29:18
appearance
29:18
of
29:18
individual.
29:20
So
29:20
far
29:20
in
29:21
terms
29:21
of
29:21
the
29:22
question,
29:23
how
29:23
do
29:24
we
29:25
develop
29:25
this
29:25
continuity
29:26
or
29:26
use
29:27
your
29:27
language,
29:28
how
29:28
do
29:28
we
29:29
move
29:29
into
29:29
actualization
29:30
that
29:30
is
29:31
more
29:31
of
29:31
a
29:32
continuity
29:32
or
29:33
lived
29:34
realization
29:34
of
29:35
this
29:35
non
29:36
conceptual
29:36
awareness?
29:37
You've
29:38
spoken
29:38
of
29:38
trust.
29:39
We
29:40
trust
29:40
being.
29:41
We
29:41
recognize
29:42
the.
29:43
We
29:44
see
29:44
through
29:44
the
29:45
dualism
29:45
of
29:46
thinking
29:46
that
29:46
action
29:47
is
29:47
separate
29:48
from
29:48
being
29:49
in
29:49
some
29:49
way.
29:50
Are
29:50
there
29:50
other
29:51
ways
29:52
to
29:52
for
29:53
this
29:53
actualization
29:54
to
29:54
occur?
29:55
And
29:55
you,
29:55
I
29:55
just
29:55
mentioned,
29:56
you
29:56
say.
29:56
That
29:56
there
29:57
are
29:57
different
29:57
ways.
29:57
Yes,
29:58
I'm
29:58
talking
29:59
about
29:59
them.
30:00
The
30:00
most
30:00
basic
30:01
one,
30:02
which
30:02
is
30:02
when
30:02
you
30:03
are
30:03
really
30:03
completely,
30:04
you
30:05
know,
30:05
dissolved
30:06
and
30:06
there's
30:06
only
30:07
the
30:07
pure
30:08
awareness
30:08
there,
30:09
then
30:09
pure
30:10
awareness
30:10
just
30:10
continues.
30:11
It's
30:12
aware
30:12
of
30:12
sitting,
30:13
aware
30:14
of
30:14
walking,
30:15
aware
30:15
of
30:15
all
30:15
of
30:15
that
30:16
when
30:16
nobody's
30:17
doing
30:17
the
30:18
walk
30:18
away.
30:18
It's
30:19
just
30:19
awareness.
30:20
And
30:20
also
30:21
in
30:21
the
30:21
pure
30:21
awareness,
30:22
you
30:22
don't
30:22
even
30:22
know
30:23
you're
30:23
walking.
30:24
Because
30:25
walking
30:25
is
30:25
a
30:25
concept.
30:27
And
30:27
it's
30:28
interesting
30:28
how
30:29
that
30:29
is
30:29
possible
30:31
because
30:32
most
30:32
of
30:32
us
30:32
will
30:32
think,
30:33
well,
30:33
how
30:33
can
30:33
you
30:34
walk
30:34
without
30:34
knowing
30:35
you're
30:35
walking?
30:36
How
30:36
will
30:36
you
30:36
know
30:37
where
30:37
to
30:37
go?
30:38
Your
30:38
awareness
30:39
knows
30:39
through
30:39
its
30:40
own
30:41
wisdom
30:42
and
30:43
because
30:43
your
30:43
knowing
30:44
is
30:44
implicit
30:45
in
30:45
it,
30:45
but
30:45
it's
30:45
not
30:46
appearing
30:46
as
30:46
mind,
30:47
it
30:48
has
30:48
been
30:48
integrated
30:49
into
30:49
being.
30:50
So
30:50
usually,
30:51
I
30:51
mean,
30:51
that's
30:52
some
30:52
what
30:52
the
30:53
masters
30:53
sometime
30:54
talk
30:54
that
30:55
way.
30:56
Everything
30:56
just
30:56
happens,
30:57
you
30:57
know.
30:59
And
30:59
there
30:59
are
30:59
other
31:00
ways.
31:01
The
31:01
other
31:01
way
31:01
is
31:02
the
31:02
individual
31:02
way.
31:03
Like
31:03
there
31:03
is
31:04
actual
31:05
from
31:05
this
31:06
pure
31:06
awareness.
31:07
When
31:07
functioning
31:08
happen,
31:09
there's
31:09
an
31:09
individual
31:10
that
31:10
function.
31:10
But
31:11
that
31:11
individual
31:11
is
31:11
not
31:12
the
31:12
ego
31:12
individual.
31:13
You
31:13
see,
31:13
it
31:14
is
31:14
like
31:14
prolongation
31:16
from
31:16
the
31:16
ground
31:17
into,
31:18
like
31:18
a
31:18
wave
31:19
into
31:19
a
31:19
form
31:20
that
31:21
is
31:21
not
31:21
separate
31:22
from
31:22
the
31:22
ground,
31:23
that
31:24
functions
31:24
and
31:25
does
31:25
things.
31:26
So
31:26
we
31:27
can
31:27
experience
31:27
ourselves
31:28
as
31:28
a
31:28
form.
31:28
But
31:29
that
31:29
requires
31:29
the
31:29
development
31:30
of
31:30
what
31:30
I
31:30
call
31:30
the
31:31
personal
31:31
essence,
31:31
the
31:32
pearl.
31:33
That's
31:33
an
31:33
importance
31:34
of
31:34
the
31:34
pearl.
31:35
So
31:35
many
31:36
of
31:36
the
31:36
teachers
31:37
don't
31:37
have
31:37
the
31:37
pearl.
31:38
They
31:38
haven't
31:38
developed
31:39
it.
31:39
So
31:39
they
31:39
cannot
31:40
do
31:41
from
31:41
that
31:41
perspective.
31:42
That's
31:43
why
31:44
they
31:44
have
31:44
to
31:44
do
31:45
it
31:45
from
31:45
the
31:45
perspective
31:46
of
31:46
pure
31:46
awareness,
31:47
which
31:47
is
31:48
the
31:48
most
31:48
difficult
31:48
one.
31:50
This
31:50
is
31:51
really
31:51
difficult.
31:51
You
31:52
really
31:52
have
31:52
to
31:52
have
31:53
no
31:53
concept
31:54
left
31:54
holding
31:55
you
31:55
up,
31:55
you
31:56
know,
31:56
and
31:57
that's
31:57
rare
31:57
to
31:57
find.
31:58
Most
31:58
people
31:59
have
31:59
still
31:59
some
32:00
concept
32:00
hidden
32:01
someplace.
32:02
So
32:03
some
32:03
master,
32:03
of
32:03
course
32:04
get
32:04
there
32:04
and
32:04
they
32:05
do
32:05
it.
32:05
But
32:06
you
32:06
know,
32:06
to
32:07
be
32:07
able
32:07
to.
32:09
If
32:09
you
32:09
have
32:09
developed
32:10
the
32:10
person
32:10
as
32:11
pearl
32:11
beyond
32:12
price,
32:12
it
32:12
appears
32:13
in
32:13
the
32:13
non
32:13
conservative
32:14
level,
32:14
but
32:15
I
32:15
call
32:15
it
32:16
the
32:16
crystal
32:17
pearl
32:17
or
32:18
non
32:19
conceptual
32:20
pearl,
32:21
which
32:21
is
32:21
really
32:22
an
32:23
individual
32:23
that
32:24
we
32:24
don't
32:25
call
32:25
an
32:26
individual,
32:27
but
32:27
there
32:27
is
32:27
like
32:28
a
32:28
prolongation
32:29
out
32:30
of
32:30
the
32:30
ground
32:31
that
32:33
looks
32:33
as
32:33
if
32:33
just
32:34
doing
32:34
things.
32:35
And
32:35
we
32:35
might
32:36
feel
32:36
that
32:36
we
32:36
are
32:37
that
32:37
prolongation.
32:38
But
32:39
we
32:39
don't
32:39
lose
32:40
the
32:40
ground.
32:40
The
32:41
ground
32:41
is
32:41
our
32:42
background.
32:42
As
32:43
our
32:43
support,
32:44
our
32:44
beingness
32:45
flows,
32:46
our
32:47
awareness
32:48
flows
32:48
and
32:49
particalizes
32:50
itself
32:51
into
32:51
an
32:51
individual
32:52
who
32:53
does
32:54
and
32:54
has
32:54
the
32:54
skill
32:55
of
32:55
doing
32:55
and
32:55
thriving
32:56
and
32:56
things
32:56
like
32:56
that.
32:57
That's
32:58
another
32:58
way
32:58
of
32:58
that
32:59
functioning
32:59
can
32:59
happen.
33:00
There
33:01
are
33:01
other
33:01
ways,
33:01
but
33:02
these
33:02
are
33:02
the
33:03
two
33:03
basic
33:03
ways.
33:04
Okay.
33:05
And.
33:05
And
33:05
I
33:05
think
33:05
some
33:06
of
33:06
us
33:06
have
33:07
flashes
33:07
of
33:07
that
33:07
experience.
33:09
I
33:09
was
33:09
thinking
33:10
when
33:10
I
33:10
used
33:10
to
33:10
surf,
33:11
I'd
33:11
be
33:11
on
33:11
the
33:11
wave.
33:12
Everything,
33:12
all
33:13
my
33:13
teenage
33:13
problems,
33:14
the
33:14
world,
33:15
the
33:15
Vietnam
33:15
War,
33:16
everything.
33:16
Just
33:17
me
33:17
and
33:17
the
33:17
wave.
33:19
And
33:19
sometimes
33:20
I
33:20
get
33:20
that
33:20
in
33:20
music,
33:21
you
33:21
know,
33:21
it's
33:22
just
33:23
what
33:23
it
33:23
is.
33:24
And
33:24
yeah,
33:24
that's
33:25
true.
33:25
These
33:25
are
33:25
sonas
33:26
to
33:27
carry.
33:27
That's
33:28
possible.
33:29
Yeah.
33:30
When
33:30
you.
33:31
You
33:31
have
33:32
to
33:32
let
33:32
go
33:32
of
33:32
your
33:33
mind
33:33
to
33:33
be
33:33
able
33:33
to
33:34
do
33:34
it.
33:34
It's
33:35
sort
33:35
of
33:35
like
33:36
completely
33:36
instinctual.
33:37
When
33:37
you're
33:37
on
33:38
the
33:38
wave,
33:38
you
33:38
know,
33:38
you're.
33:39
The
33:40
knowing
33:40
is
33:40
not
33:41
mental
33:41
anymore.
33:42
And
33:42
it
33:43
feels
33:43
magical
33:43
and
33:43
holy.
33:44
I
33:44
mean,
33:45
it
33:45
feels
33:45
very,
33:45
very
33:45
special.
33:46
And
33:46
I
33:46
guess
33:46
we're
33:47
talking
33:47
about
33:47
being
33:47
able
33:48
to
33:48
kind
33:48
of
33:48
stabilize
33:49
that
33:49
kind
33:49
of
33:49
awareness.
33:50
Instead
33:50
of
33:50
just
33:50
these
33:51
little
33:51
flashes
33:52
into.
33:53
A
33:53
way
33:53
of
33:53
being,
33:54
it
33:54
becomes
33:55
a
33:55
way
33:55
of
33:55
being
33:56
and
33:56
living,
33:56
you
33:57
know,
33:57
that
33:57
is
33:58
continuous.
33:59
Yeah,
33:59
that's
34:00
not
34:00
just
34:00
in
34:00
specific
34:01
situations,
34:03
but
34:03
in
34:03
all
34:03
situations.
34:04
Like
34:05
going
34:05
to
34:05
sleep.
34:06
Like
34:06
sometime
34:07
I
34:07
go
34:07
to
34:07
sleep,
34:08
for
34:08
instance,
34:09
and
34:09
I
34:09
go
34:10
under
34:10
the
34:10
blanket
34:11
and
34:12
I
34:12
wonder
34:13
who's
34:13
going
34:13
under
34:14
the
34:14
blanket?
34:16
There's
34:16
nobody
34:17
here
34:17
going
34:17
under
34:17
the
34:17
blanket.
34:18
I
34:18
realized.
34:18
No,
34:19
the
34:19
whole
34:20
blanket
34:20
and
34:21
the
34:21
bed,
34:21
all
34:22
of
34:22
it
34:22
is
34:22
manifesting
34:23
and
34:23
manifesting
34:24
as
34:25
some
34:25
body,
34:26
physical
34:26
body
34:27
going
34:27
under
34:27
the
34:27
blanket.
34:28
But
34:28
all
34:28
this
34:29
appearance
34:30
in
34:30
this
34:30
ground
34:31
of
34:31
being,
34:33
which
34:33
is
34:33
really.
34:34
Then
34:34
you
34:34
go
34:34
to
34:34
sleep
34:35
like
34:35
that.
34:36
That's
34:36
a
34:36
very
34:36
interesting
34:37
way.
34:38
And
34:39
for
34:39
me,
34:39
does
34:39
the
34:39
awareness
34:40
continue
34:41
unbroken
34:42
as
34:42
you
34:43
fall
34:43
asleep?
34:44
It
34:45
can,
34:46
I
34:46
mean,
34:46
or
34:47
for
34:47
me,
34:48
frequently,
34:48
no,
34:48
I
34:49
fall
34:49
asleep,
34:49
lose
34:50
consciousness.
34:51
Sometimes
34:52
dreams
34:52
happen.
34:53
Can
34:53
be,
34:54
you
34:54
know,
34:54
awake
34:55
dream
34:55
or
34:55
not,
34:56
you
34:56
know,
34:57
but
34:58
the
34:58
sleeping
34:59
is
35:00
becomes
35:01
even
35:02
going
35:02
beyond
35:03
the
35:03
awareness
35:05
to
35:05
cessation.
35:07
True
35:08
deep
35:08
sleep
35:09
is
35:10
all
35:11
awareness
35:12
is
35:12
gone.
35:13
And
35:13
yet
35:14
sometimes
35:16
in
35:16
the
35:16
advanced
35:17
dream
35:17
yogas
35:18
there's
35:19
some
35:19
remnant
35:19
of
35:19
awareness
35:20
even
35:20
in
35:21
that
35:21
sensation.
35:22
It
35:22
sounds
35:22
like
35:23
there
35:23
can
35:23
be
35:24
an
35:24
awareness.
35:25
Well,
35:25
there
35:25
are
35:25
two
35:25
things
35:26
to
35:26
report.
35:27
There
35:27
is
35:28
what's
35:28
called
35:28
lucid
35:29
dreaming,
35:30
which
35:30
is
35:31
you
35:31
can
35:31
be
35:32
aware
35:33
continuous
35:33
in
35:33
dreaming
35:34
and
35:35
the
35:35
dreaming
35:35
can
35:36
embody
35:37
that
35:37
realization
35:39
is
35:39
only
35:40
you're
35:41
still
35:41
in
35:41
this
35:41
nameless
35:42
awareness.
35:43
Or
35:43
it
35:43
could
35:43
be
35:44
not.
35:44
But
35:45
also
35:45
the
35:45
other
35:46
part
35:46
you're
35:47
mentioning,
35:47
I
35:47
think
35:47
discussed
35:48
by
35:48
some
35:49
teachings
35:50
is
35:51
that
35:51
even
35:51
in
35:52
deep
35:52
sleep
35:52
there's
35:53
some
35:53
kind
35:53
of
35:53
awareness.
35:54
That
35:54
awareness
35:54
is
35:55
not
35:55
awareness
35:55
of
35:55
anything
35:56
specific.
35:57
You
35:58
see,
35:59
it's
35:59
more
35:59
like
35:59
just
36:01
the
36:01
barest
36:03
awareness
36:03
of
36:05
stillness
36:06
or
36:06
peacefulness.
36:07
And
36:08
usually
36:08
most
36:09
people
36:10
don't
36:10
remember
36:10
that
36:11
when
36:11
they
36:11
wake
36:12
up
36:12
because
36:13
they
36:13
don't
36:13
know
36:14
that
36:14
dimension
36:14
of
36:15
awareness
36:15
and
36:15
stillness.
36:16
Yeah,
36:16
you're
36:16
coming
36:16
back
36:17
into
36:17
a
36:17
whole
36:17
different
36:18
dimension
36:19
and
36:19
most
36:19
of
36:19
us
36:20
lose
36:20
it.
36:20
You
36:21
know,
36:21
the
36:21
other
36:22
Hindu
36:23
teaching
36:23
talk
36:24
about
36:24
the
36:24
different
36:25
three
36:26
years
36:26
different
36:27
levels
36:27
of
36:28
sleep.
36:28
And
36:28
there
36:29
is
36:29
also
36:29
another
36:30
level
36:30
of
36:30
sleep
36:31
when
36:31
even
36:32
the
36:32
awareness
36:32
is
36:33
gone.
36:35
And
36:36
basically
36:37
when
36:37
you
36:37
wake
36:38
up,
36:39
it's
36:39
like
36:40
what
36:40
happened,
36:41
you
36:42
know,
36:42
like
36:43
it
36:43
feels
36:43
no
36:44
time
36:44
passed,
36:44
nothing
36:45
happened.
36:45
Like
36:46
I
36:46
closed
36:47
my
36:47
eye,
36:47
now
36:47
I've
36:47
opened
36:48
my
36:48
eye
36:49
and
36:49
that
36:49
is
36:51
even
36:51
the
36:52
sense
36:52
of
36:52
awareness
36:53
is
36:53
gone.
36:55
So
36:55
there
36:55
are
36:55
different
36:55
levels.
36:56
I
36:56
don't
36:57
know,
36:57
they
36:57
call
36:57
them
36:57
different
36:58
levels
36:58
of
36:58
samadhi
36:59
or
36:59
something.
37:00
And
37:00
sometimes
37:00
the
37:01
sense
37:01
of
37:01
self
37:01
has
37:01
to
37:02
come
37:02
back.
37:02
Like
37:02
what's
37:02
my
37:03
name?
37:03
Where
37:03
am
37:03
I?
37:04
Who
37:04
am
37:04
I?
37:04
What's
37:04
going
37:05
on
37:05
here?
37:05
And
37:05
then
37:05
it,
37:06
you
37:06
know,
37:06
oh,
37:06
okay,
37:07
I'm
37:07
John,
37:07
this
37:07
is
37:08
my
37:08
bed,
37:08
here's
37:08
my
37:08
dog,
37:09
my
37:09
wife.
37:10
Sometimes
37:10
that
37:10
goes
37:10
away
37:11
and
37:11
it
37:11
kind.
37:11
Of
37:11
falls
37:12
back
37:12
into
37:13
place.
37:13
Yeah,
37:14
that's
37:15
the
37:15
thing.
37:15
You
37:15
see.
37:16
Also
37:17
one
37:17
thing
37:17
I
37:17
think
37:18
we
37:18
need
37:18
to
37:18
discuss
37:19
as
37:19
you
37:19
bring
37:20
up,
37:20
you
37:20
know,
37:21
John,
37:22
which
37:22
is
37:23
just
37:23
because
37:24
we
37:24
are
37:24
in
37:24
pure
37:25
awareness,
37:25
we
37:25
don't
37:26
always
37:26
live
37:26
in
37:27
pure
37:27
awareness.
37:28
In
37:28
fact,
37:28
it's
37:29
not
37:29
possible.
37:29
I
37:29
don't
37:30
know
37:30
if
37:30
anybody
37:30
ever
37:31
lived
37:31
completely
37:32
always
37:32
in
37:33
pure
37:33
awareness.
37:34
The
37:34
other
37:34
dimension
37:35
arise
37:36
like
37:36
a
37:36
dimension
37:37
of
37:37
knowing
37:37
arises
37:38
and
37:39
you
37:39
know
37:39
what's
37:40
happening.
37:40
But
37:41
you
37:41
still
37:41
realization
37:42
is
37:42
still
37:43
non
37:43
dual
37:43
reality.
37:45
But
37:45
because
37:46
the
37:46
dimension
37:47
pure
37:47
being
37:47
that
37:48
has
37:48
pure
37:48
knowing
37:50
is
37:50
part
37:50
of
37:51
the
37:51
non
37:51
dual
37:52
world.
37:53
But
37:53
I
37:53
put
37:53
it
37:54
as
37:54
a
37:54
different
37:54
dimension.
37:55
But
37:55
that
37:56
dimension
37:56
arises
37:57
together
37:57
with
37:58
awareness.
37:59
And
37:59
that's
37:59
actually
38:00
what
38:00
happens
38:01
for
38:01
most
38:01
people
38:01
who
38:02
Realize
38:02
they
38:03
have
38:03
the
38:03
two
38:03
dimensions
38:04
happening
38:04
at
38:04
the
38:04
same
38:05
time,
38:05
but
38:05
they're
38:06
seeing
38:06
them
38:06
as
38:06
one
38:07
dimension.
38:07
Like
38:08
there's
38:08
a
38:09
knowing.
38:11
So
38:11
could
38:11
we
38:11
say
38:11
that
38:11
the
38:11
doer
38:12
becomes
38:12
more
38:12
transparent,
38:13
if
38:13
you
38:14
will,
38:14
to
38:14
being.
38:15
In
38:15
other
38:15
words,
38:16
doing
38:16
still
38:16
going
38:17
on.
38:17
But
38:17
it's
38:17
not
38:18
this
38:18
rigid,
38:19
reified
38:20
thing
38:20
that
38:20
you
38:20
talk
38:21
about
38:21
a
38:21
lot,
38:21
but
38:22
it's
38:22
more
38:22
of
38:22
a
38:23
transparency.
38:24
You
38:24
know,
38:25
what
38:25
feels
38:25
like
38:26
is
38:26
that
38:27
the
38:27
doer
38:28
is
38:29
the
38:29
pure
38:29
non
38:30
dual
38:30
ground.
38:32
And
38:32
it's
38:32
doing
38:33
through
38:34
a
38:34
prolongation
38:35
of
38:35
itself
38:36
that
38:36
we
38:37
call.
38:37
John,
38:41
I
38:42
call
38:42
the
38:42
God
38:42
finger,
38:43
everybody,
38:43
the
38:44
God
38:44
finger.
38:44
The
38:45
God
38:45
finger.
38:45
God
38:45
who
38:46
is
38:46
a
38:46
sphincter.
38:46
And
38:46
we
38:47
call
38:47
this
38:47
person
38:48
talking.
38:48
You
38:48
know,
38:50
that's
38:51
great,
38:51
Amit.
38:51
I
38:51
think
38:51
you
38:52
need
38:52
to
38:52
patent
38:52
that.
38:53
I
38:53
know.
38:54
Yeah.
38:54
That's
38:54
one
38:55
of
38:55
my
38:55
favorite
38:55
expressions,
38:56
the
38:56
God
38:56
finger
38:57
sticking.
38:58
It
38:59
does
38:59
put
38:59
a
38:59
very
39:00
different
39:00
perspective
39:01
on
39:01
each
39:01
of
39:01
us.
39:02
Yeah,
39:03
always
39:03
a
39:03
God
39:04
finger,
39:04
really.
39:05
Yeah,
39:05
Right.
39:05
There's
39:06
only
39:06
God
39:06
fingers
39:07
in
39:07
the
39:07
world,
39:08
right?
39:08
Exactly.
39:11
Mahometa,
39:12
I
39:12
wanted
39:12
to
39:12
ask
39:12
you.
39:13
Why
39:13
do
39:13
you
39:13
think
39:14
that
39:15
we
39:16
evolved
39:18
to
39:18
this
39:18
sense
39:18
of
39:18
separateness
39:20
that
39:20
we
39:21
have
39:21
to
39:22
work
39:22
through
39:23
to
39:23
realize
39:24
back
39:24
where
39:24
we
39:25
started
39:25
from?
39:25
I
39:25
mean,
39:26
maybe
39:26
it's
39:26
not
39:27
started
39:27
from,
39:27
but
39:27
it's
39:27
kind
39:28
of.
39:28
Especially
39:28
in
39:28
the
39:29
west,
39:29
the
39:29
sin
39:30
separateness
39:30
has
39:31
been
39:31
so
39:32
an
39:32
individuality.
39:33
It's
39:33
been
39:33
so
39:33
built
39:33
into
39:34
our
39:34
culture
39:34
and
39:35
our
39:35
teachings
39:35
and
39:35
our
39:36
life.
39:36
Why
39:37
did
39:37
that
39:37
happen?
39:37
Why
39:38
did
39:38
we
39:38
become
39:40
these
39:41
entities
39:41
or
39:42
beings
39:42
that
39:43
think
39:43
that
39:43
we're
39:44
separate?
39:44
We're
39:45
I'm
39:46
not
39:46
you
39:46
and
39:46
you're
39:46
not
39:46
me.
39:47
And
39:47
you
39:48
know,
39:48
I'm
39:48
live,
39:48
I'm
39:48
going
39:49
to
39:49
die.
39:49
It's
39:50
individual
39:50
thing.
39:50
What
39:51
is
39:51
there
39:51
a
39:51
purpose
39:52
behind
39:52
that
39:52
whole
39:52
process?
39:53
I
39:53
think
39:54
you're
39:54
forgetting
39:54
we
39:54
discussed
39:55
that.
39:56
Oh,
39:56
I
39:56
probably
39:57
did.
39:57
I'm
39:57
good
39:57
at
39:58
that.
39:58
I'll
39:58
remind
39:59
you,
40:00
when
40:00
you
40:00
were
40:00
talking
40:00
about
40:01
the
40:01
person
40:01
essence,
40:02
we
40:02
discussed
40:02
that.
40:03
Okay.
40:04
You
40:04
see,
40:04
which
40:05
is
40:05
that
40:06
you
40:06
see,
40:07
most
40:07
teaching,
40:08
many
40:08
teachings,
40:09
let's
40:09
not
40:09
say
40:09
most
40:10
teaching,
40:10
like
40:11
Advaita
40:11
Vedanta,
40:12
they
40:13
think
40:13
the
40:13
individual
40:14
is
40:14
an
40:14
illusion.
40:16
There's
40:16
no
40:16
such
40:16
thing.
40:17
That
40:17
we
40:18
have
40:18
an
40:18
illusion
40:19
that
40:20
we
40:20
are
40:20
an
40:20
individual,
40:21
while
40:21
in
40:21
reality
40:22
when
40:22
we
40:22
wake
40:22
up,
40:22
we
40:23
realize,
40:23
no,
40:23
we're
40:24
not.
40:24
They've
40:24
never
40:25
been
40:25
an
40:25
individual.
40:26
So
40:27
for
40:27
them
40:28
it's
40:28
an
40:28
illusion.
40:29
It
40:30
basically,
40:30
through
40:32
the
40:32
ground
40:33
lies
40:33
to
40:33
itself
40:35
so
40:35
that
40:35
it
40:35
become
40:36
so
40:36
it
40:37
can
40:37
wake
40:37
up
40:37
to
40:37
itself.
40:38
And
40:38
I
40:39
always
40:39
think,
40:40
I
40:40
don't
40:41
like
40:41
that
40:41
theory.
40:41
It
40:42
seems
40:42
that
40:42
why
40:43
would
40:43
God
40:43
need
40:43
to
40:43
lie
40:44
to
40:44
himself,
40:47
you
40:48
know,
40:48
why
40:48
not
40:48
just,
40:49
you
40:49
know,
40:49
manifest
40:50
an
40:50
individual,
40:51
you
40:52
know,
40:52
that
40:52
is
40:53
part
40:53
of
40:53
itself.
40:53
A
40:54
God
40:54
finger
40:55
that,
40:56
you
40:56
know,
40:57
appears
40:57
as
40:58
a
40:58
human
40:58
being
40:59
and
40:59
so
41:00
I
41:00
see
41:00
the.
41:02
Again
41:03
for
41:03
me
41:03
that's
41:04
a
41:04
theory.
41:04
It's
41:05
not
41:05
something
41:06
I
41:06
won't
41:06
call
41:07
knowing,
41:08
which
41:08
is
41:09
just
41:09
looking.
41:09
And
41:10
different
41:10
things
41:10
happen.
41:11
I
41:11
develop
41:12
a
41:12
perspective
41:13
which
41:13
is
41:14
that
41:14
the
41:15
development
41:15
of
41:16
the
41:16
individual
41:17
and
41:17
the
41:18
ego
41:18
and
41:18
separateness
41:20
is
41:20
natural.
41:21
It
41:22
is
41:22
part
41:22
of
41:23
the
41:23
evolution
41:24
necessary
41:25
for
41:26
God
41:26
to
41:27
become
41:27
aware
41:27
of
41:28
itself.
41:29
That
41:29
is
41:29
because
41:30
you
41:30
have
41:30
to
41:30
begin
41:31
in
41:31
some
41:31
size,
41:32
you
41:32
have
41:32
to
41:32
begin
41:32
in
41:33
duality.
41:33
Everybody
41:34
begins
41:34
in
41:34
duality.
41:35
As
41:35
you
41:35
know,
41:36
you
41:36
see,
41:37
it's
41:37
universal
41:38
everywhere.
41:39
So
41:39
you
41:39
wonder
41:40
why
41:40
does
41:41
each
41:41
one
41:42
know
41:43
develop
41:43
to
41:44
be
41:44
a
41:44
separate
41:45
individual?
41:45
How
41:45
do
41:45
they
41:46
know
41:46
to
41:46
be
41:46
to
41:46
do
41:47
that?
41:47
You
41:47
know,
41:48
and
41:48
there's
41:48
a
41:48
universal
41:49
law
41:49
there,
41:50
you
41:50
know,
41:51
it's
41:51
not
41:51
our
41:52
choice,
41:53
you
41:53
see,
41:53
it
41:53
just
41:54
happens.
41:55
And
41:55
so
41:56
when
41:56
to
41:56
say
41:57
that
41:57
it
41:57
is
41:57
an
41:57
illusion,
41:58
it's
41:59
like
41:59
who's
41:59
illusion?
42:00
I
42:01
mean
42:02
that
42:02
is
42:02
self
42:03
contradicted.
42:04
They
42:04
say
42:04
it's
42:04
an
42:04
illusion.
42:05
And
42:05
then
42:06
the
42:06
disillusioned
42:07
person
42:08
goes
42:08
does
42:08
these
42:09
things
42:09
and
42:09
all
42:09
that.
42:09
But
42:10
they
42:10
say
42:10
there
42:10
is
42:11
no
42:11
one
42:11
there
42:12
saying
42:12
well
42:13
that's
42:13
a
42:13
contradiction,
42:15
you
42:15
know,
42:16
how
42:16
can
42:16
there
42:17
be
42:18
if
42:18
a
42:18
deluded
42:19
person
42:20
is
42:20
really
42:21
causing
42:22
their
42:22
own
42:22
suffering?
42:24
You
42:24
already
42:25
back
42:25
to
42:25
duality.
42:27
You're
42:27
taking
42:27
a
42:27
dualistic
42:28
view
42:28
to
42:29
explain
42:29
non
42:29
duality.
42:31
So
42:31
the
42:31
real
42:32
non
42:32
dual
42:33
view
42:33
is
42:34
that
42:34
the
42:35
non
42:35
dual
42:35
world
42:36
manifest
42:37
waves
42:38
or
42:39
God,
42:39
finger
42:40
or
42:40
individual
42:41
that
42:41
are
42:41
part
42:41
of
42:42
itself.
42:42
And
42:43
part
42:43
of
42:43
its
42:44
development
42:45
is
42:45
that
42:45
it
42:46
develop
42:46
them
42:47
so
42:47
that
42:47
they
42:47
begin
42:48
to
42:48
feel
42:48
separate.
42:49
And
42:49
that
42:50
separation
42:50
is
42:50
needed
42:51
for
42:51
the
42:51
survival
42:52
of
42:52
the
42:52
physical
42:53
body.
42:54
It's
42:54
needed
42:54
for
42:55
actual
42:55
survival
42:56
because
42:56
we
42:57
the
42:57
child
42:57
doesn't
42:58
know
42:59
it
42:59
is
42:59
a
42:59
person.
43:00
It
43:00
is
43:00
an
43:00
individual
43:01
who
43:01
take
43:02
care
43:02
of
43:02
itself
43:02
and
43:03
survive
43:03
and
43:04
won't
43:04
survive.
43:05
And
43:05
then
43:05
they
43:05
won't
43:06
have
43:06
that.
43:06
And
43:06
then
43:07
being
43:07
won't
43:07
have
43:08
the
43:08
possibility
43:08
of
43:09
knowing
43:09
itself.
43:10
So
43:10
it's
43:10
a
43:10
stage
43:11
of
43:11
development
43:12
that
43:13
happens.
43:14
Maybe
43:15
it
43:15
could
43:15
be
43:15
seen
43:15
as
43:16
a
43:16
seed.
43:16
The
43:17
individual
43:17
is
43:17
a
43:17
seed.
43:18
I
43:18
think
43:18
you
43:18
mentioned
43:18
that
43:19
I
43:19
was
43:19
reading
43:19
recently
43:20
that
43:20
individual
43:21
self
43:21
is
43:22
a
43:22
seed.
43:22
But
43:22
that's
43:23
not
43:23
the
43:23
end
43:23
product.
43:24
The
43:24
seed
43:24
is
43:25
a
43:25
necessary
43:25
step
43:26
for
43:27
the
43:27
tree
43:28
or
43:28
whatever
43:29
it
43:29
might
43:29
be.
43:29
Yeah,
43:30
it's
43:30
a
43:30
necessary
43:31
step.
43:31
Yeah,
43:31
it's
43:31
a
43:31
necessary
43:32
step.
43:33
You
43:33
need
43:33
to
43:34
be
43:34
separate
43:35
to
43:35
survive.
43:36
But
43:37
then
43:37
it's
43:37
a.
43:38
I
43:38
see
43:38
it
43:38
as
43:38
a
43:39
stage
43:39
of
43:39
development.
43:40
And
43:40
most
43:41
human
43:41
being
43:41
get
43:42
arrested
43:42
at
43:42
that
43:43
stage,
43:43
at
43:44
the
43:44
ego
43:44
stage.
43:45
And
43:45
they
43:45
can,
43:46
they
43:46
believe
43:46
that's
43:46
it,
43:47
that's
43:47
the
43:47
end.
43:48
You
43:48
see,
43:49
it's
43:49
just
43:49
a
43:49
matter
43:50
of
43:50
being
43:50
more
43:51
capable
43:51
and
43:52
separate
43:52
individual
43:53
or
43:53
not.
43:53
You
43:54
know.
43:54
And
43:54
so
43:55
therapy
43:55
says
43:56
you
43:56
are
43:56
a
43:57
separate
43:57
individual
43:58
who
43:58
can
43:58
work
43:58
and
43:59
have
43:59
relationship.
44:00
That's
44:00
A
44:00
healthy
44:01
individual.
44:01
That's
44:01
the
44:02
goal
44:02
of
44:02
therapy,
44:02
you
44:03
see,
44:04
unless
44:04
you
44:04
go
44:04
to
44:05
transpersonal
44:05
therapy,
44:06
that's
44:06
different.
44:06
You
44:07
have
44:07
to
44:07
bring
44:07
in
44:08
a
44:08
spiritual
44:09
element.
44:10
But
44:10
I
44:11
see
44:11
it.
44:11
My
44:12
perspective
44:13
is
44:13
that
44:13
it
44:14
is
44:14
part
44:15
of
44:15
what
44:15
happened
44:15
in
44:16
this
44:16
cosmic
44:16
drama,
44:18
that
44:18
being
44:19
manifest
44:19
and
44:20
being
44:20
sort
44:21
of
44:21
make
44:22
itself
44:22
not
44:23
be
44:23
aware
44:24
of
44:24
its
44:24
vastness
44:25
by
44:26
appearing
44:27
as
44:27
this
44:27
individual
44:28
who
44:29
believes
44:29
itself
44:30
as
44:30
a
44:30
separate.
44:31
But
44:31
in
44:31
reality
44:32
there
44:32
isn't
44:33
one.
44:33
It's
44:33
not
44:34
an
44:34
illusion,
44:35
it
44:35
is
44:35
an
44:35
appearance.
44:37
You
44:37
know,
44:39
things
44:40
appear
44:40
that
44:41
way,
44:41
but
44:42
when
44:42
you
44:42
wake
44:42
up,
44:42
you
44:43
realize,
44:43
no,
44:43
that
44:44
was
44:44
just
44:44
an
44:44
appearance
44:45
and
44:45
that
44:45
I
44:46
believed
44:46
in.
44:47
And
44:47
being
44:48
let
44:48
you
44:48
believe
44:48
it
44:49
makes
44:49
the
44:49
wave
44:50
believe
44:50
it
44:50
is
44:50
separate
44:53
so
44:53
that
44:54
it
44:54
goes
44:55
on,
44:55
lives
44:55
survive.
44:57
Learns
44:57
how
44:58
to
44:58
water,
44:58
brush
44:59
his
44:59
teeth
44:59
and
45:00
this
45:00
and
45:00
that,
45:00
and
45:01
take
45:01
a
45:01
shower,
45:02
all
45:02
of
45:02
that's
45:02
needed
45:03
and
45:03
stay
45:04
healthy
45:04
and
45:04
go
45:05
to
45:05
the
45:05
doctor
45:06
and
45:06
all
45:06
of
45:06
that,
45:07
all
45:07
that's
45:08
needed.
45:10
Otherwise,
45:11
you
45:12
know,
45:13
remind
45:13
me
45:13
of
45:13
some
45:14
of
45:14
the
45:14
Indian
45:14
gurus
45:15
where
45:15
their
45:16
students
45:16
have
45:16
take
45:16
care
45:17
of
45:17
them
45:17
about
45:18
everything.
45:19
They
45:19
take
45:20
them
45:20
to
45:20
the
45:20
doctor.
45:22
They
45:22
don't
45:22
know
45:22
anything
45:23
like
45:23
it.
45:23
And
45:23
it's
45:24
true.
45:24
That
45:24
means
45:24
they
45:25
haven't
45:25
developed
45:26
their
45:26
ego,
45:26
hasn't
45:27
developed
45:28
enough.
45:29
You
45:29
see,
45:29
they
45:30
developed
45:30
an
45:30
ego.
45:30
They
45:31
have
45:31
to
45:31
develop
45:31
an
45:31
ego,
45:32
but
45:32
hasn't
45:33
learned
45:33
the
45:33
functionality
45:35
and
45:36
became
45:36
awake
45:37
maybe
45:38
and
45:38
became
45:38
this
45:39
boundlessness
45:40
without
45:41
learning
45:42
the
45:42
skills
45:42
of
45:43
life.
45:43
Without
45:44
the
45:44
actualization,
45:45
I
45:45
think
45:45
is
45:45
how
45:46
you
45:46
phrase
45:46
that.
45:46
Without
45:47
the
45:47
individual
45:48
actualization
45:50
that's
45:51
possible.
45:51
Yeah,
45:52
yeah.
45:53
I
45:53
mean,
45:53
there's
45:54
so
45:54
many
45:54
directions
45:55
we
45:55
could
45:55
go
45:55
here.
45:55
But
45:55
I
45:56
want
45:56
to
45:56
come
45:56
back
45:56
to
45:57
the
45:58
dichotomies
45:58
which
45:59
take
45:59
up
46:00
so
46:00
much
46:00
of
46:01
the
46:01
focus
46:02
of
46:02
so
46:02
much
46:02
of
46:02
this
46:03
chapter
46:03
and
46:04
particularly
46:04
come
46:05
back
46:05
for
46:05
the
46:05
moment
46:06
to
46:06
the
46:06
one,
46:07
as
46:07
you
46:07
point
46:08
out,
46:08
one
46:08
of
46:08
the
46:08
most
46:08
frequent
46:09
and
46:09
important
46:10
dichotomies
46:11
in
46:12
life
46:12
and
46:12
spiritual
46:13
practice,
46:14
and
46:14
that
46:14
is
46:14
the
46:14
dichotomy
46:15
between
46:16
good
46:16
and
46:17
bad.
46:18
Stay
46:18
tuned
46:18
for
46:18
part
46:19
two,
46:19
where
46:19
we
46:19
continue
46:20
to
46:20
delve
46:20
into
46:21
the
46:21
depths
46:22
of
46:22
existence
46:22
and
46:23
the
46:23
love,
46:23
compassion
46:24
and
46:24
gratitude
46:25
that
46:25
are
46:25
inherent
46:26
in
46:26
our
46:26
true
46:26
natures.
46:27
Thank
46:27
you
46:28
very
46:28
much
46:28
for
46:28
being
46:29
a
46:29
part
46:29
of
46:29
this
46:30
conversation.
46:30
We
46:31
hope
46:31
that
46:31
you
46:31
were
46:31
moved
46:32
as
46:32
we
46:32
are
46:33
moved,
46:33
being
46:33
part
46:33
of
46:34
it
46:34
ourselves.
46:35
We'd
46:35
also
46:35
like
46:35
to
46:36
say
46:36
that
46:36
this
46:36
is
46:36
being
46:37
funded
46:37
by
46:38
Roger
46:38
and
46:38
myself.
46:38
It
46:39
comes
46:39
out
46:39
of
46:39
our
46:39
pockets.
46:40
So
46:40
if
46:40
you
46:40
would
46:40
like
46:40
to
46:41
help
46:41
us
46:41
to
46:42
mainly
46:42
to
46:42
get
46:43
this
46:43
podcast
46:43
out
46:43
to
46:44
more
46:44
people
46:44
because
46:45
the
46:45
bigger
46:45
audience
46:45
have
46:46
which
46:46
is
46:46
steadily
46:46
growing.
46:47
But
46:47
the
46:47
more
46:47
people
46:48
we
46:48
can
46:48
reach
46:48
and
46:48
the
46:48
more
46:48
market
46:49
marketing
46:49
we
46:49
can
46:49
do,
46:50
the
46:50
more
46:50
positive
46:51
effect
46:51
we
46:51
can
46:51
have
46:51
on
46:52
the
46:52
world.
46:52
So
46:52
we've
46:53
done
46:53
that
46:53
a
46:53
couple
46:53
of
46:53
ways,
46:54
but
46:54
we'd
46:54
like
46:54
you
46:54
to
46:55
buy
46:55
us
46:55
a
46:55
cup
46:55
of
46:55
coffee.
46:56
Very
46:56
simple.
46:56
And
46:57
I
46:57
do
46:57
that
46:57
with
46:57
podcasts
46:58
that
46:58
I
46:59
support,
46:59
and
47:00
I
47:00
find
47:00
it's
47:00
very
47:01
satisfying.
47:01
So
47:02
thank
47:02
you
47:02
for
47:02
your
47:02
help,
47:03
thank
47:03
you
47:03
for
47:03
your
47:03
presence,
47:04
and
47:04
thank
47:04
you
47:04
for
47:05
all
47:05
you
47:05
are
47:05
and
47:06
all
47:06
you
47:06
do.
47:06
We
47:07
love
47:07
you,
47:15
Sam.