Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 28 y.o. tattooed ex-marine drives mom’s car to Borderline Bar opens fire, murders 12

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28 y.o. tattooed ex-marine drives mom’s car to Borderline Bar opens fire, murders 12 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Basically heard the shots. It was a tall probably six
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: two six three um dark figure, all black with his
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: hood on, and he basically was unloading. And all I
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: did was grabbed as many people as I could and
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: pull them underneath the table and until I heard the shots,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: until I heard a break in the shots, and then
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: we got people out of there as much as we could.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: It sounds like you smashed the window. Well, yeah, we
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: did describe that. Barstools go through windows. It works. I
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: mean I interviewed somebody who went through that winter. You
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: helped get them out. So you've pulled a lot of
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: people out exactly, and that's all we could do. The
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: only thing that I could have wished for is to
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: have something better than a barstool. If you're like most people,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: you woke up this morning to learn twelve dead in
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: a student massacre. At least twelve. Dad is a trench
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: coat wearing masked gunman storms the student night at a
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: local country bar. Why throwing smoke grenades onto the dance floor,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: killing a cop. It's over whelming what we are learning
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: right now. I Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: you for being with us. Repeat at least twelve. Dad
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: is a trench coat wearing masked gun men, rages into
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: student night at a local country bar, hurling smoke grenades
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: onto the dance floor, even killing a cop in California.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: I'm overwhelmed as so many people are straight out to
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Alan Doup joining us in l a Alan. What happened?
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: It was in the evening. It was college night at
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: the Borderline Bar and Grill in Thousand Oaks, and kids
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: were enjoying country night and they were dancing, they were drinking,
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: they were having a good time, and gunfire rang out.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Witnesses tell us this guy just walks in and starts shooting.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: You know, we are talking about kind of a homey
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: little bar, a country bar that was college night that night.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: College country Night is a regular fixture and teens from
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: nearby colleges all go there and they have a good time,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: many of them stamping black egg is on their hands
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: to mark that they will not be drinking. All of
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: these students are crammed in students from Pepperdine Um, California
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Lutheran to heavily, heavily Christian schools? Was his A hate crime?
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Was the shooter trying to stamp out Christian students. We
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: don't know all the answers yet, but listen, I thought
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: it was a joke when the shots started firing, and
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: I just, I don't. I hope I know people there.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: I know, I just I hope everybody's okay. I don't
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: know how I didn't get shot. You come to this
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: bar a lout, Yeah, here and there. It's a local spot.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: There's one of maybe three yeah, I mean quite a bit.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: And you knew more people that were inside already. Yeah,
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: I heard from anybody, you know, I know, I mean
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: my my, my friend that works behind the bar wasn't
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: working tonight. But from what I've been told, there's still
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: people in there, and it's an active shooter. The gunman
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: he was, He had a beard, He looked Middle Easterners
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: or so. He was wearing a hat, black jacket. I
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: think he had glasses on, like prescription glasses. He had
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: a big handgun, and I mean, shots were just firing.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: Are you okay? I was. I was the closest. The
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: security guard was closest to the front door. Cash. The
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: two people had a cash treasurer close to the front door.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: I was the next person closest to the front door.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: You're hearing the hero survivor, Matt, who actually threw a
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: bar stool through a window and tried to help people
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: get out of the deadly shooting scenario. These are tanes.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: You work your whole life to raise your child. They're
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: all the years where you have to change their diapers
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: and give them back and rush them back and forth
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: to the doctor and take their temperature in the middle
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: of nine and clean up their vomit. Then they they
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: move on there in school, and then you have to
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: wash their clothes, make sure they have their homework done,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: make sure they're eating their veggies, and have all their vaccinations.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: Then they move on to middle school, the whole another
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: set of issues to help them navigate. Then high school.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: Are they going to get into college? Which college? What
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: can I do to help them do better? Make life easier,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: make life better for them. You finally get them into college,
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: and then this there are parents suffering. Parents suffering right now,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: parents that wake up in the morning and they discover
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: that this has happened to their child. Listen, are the
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: worst with my son. So they went in there. They
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: all got out, but he didn't come out, so they
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: say he was when they last he went to the
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: bar to get the drinks for everybody, and that's when
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: they heard the shocks ringing out and all panic. The hospital.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: We did call the hospital, they don't they're going through
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: their crazy triage right now, so they don't have any
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: names or anybody that they They don't want to talk yet,
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: so I haven't been over that. That's my next status
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: to go there yet. What did they tell you here?
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: They just taking your information and tell you to wait.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: How was that your dad? Like I said, I'm pretty emotional.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Tell me that awesome. Um, we're very Christian raised family
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: and everything. That's he's a very good kid, you know,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: he's very good new school. He's very sports oriented. Uh
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: was going into the army. So we're gonna have to
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: wait and see at the ending of the situation, you're
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: answer that. Please answer that, Okay. I'm like, if you
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: get word I want. You talked about these mast shootings
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: that you've been seeing, and we'd ever talked to all
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: about things. Yeah, that's why I'm very Uh, I'm curious
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: right now and email raising him the way we've raised them, yas,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: and if he picked up the cell phone, anybody's cell phone,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: M he's called home. So I don't understand where we're
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: at this point that you just see singing shot. I'm
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: actually I'm very very you're hearing Jason Kaufman, his son, Cody,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: was inside the Borderline Bar, all the friends got out.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: He can't find Cody, And all I can say right
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: now is the Lord please be with Jason Kaufman and Cody.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: But we know that at least twelve are dead. We
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: know there are twelve sets of parents, twelve families devastated
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: right now, at least twelve if you like. So meny
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Americans woke up and discover the deadly student massacre, it's
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: just overwhelming. De Troy's like joining me, renowned l a
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: defense attorney who actually represents the owner of Borderline Bar. Troy,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: what is your understanding? I woke up to this horrific
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: tragedy just like everybody else, and uh immediately and trying
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: to find out as much information as I can. I've
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: I've texted my client, who is the owner of, as
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: you said, of the bar, haven't heard back from him yet.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: So at this point I just don't know, and I'm
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: trying to gather the facts of the location of that
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: bar is very close to my office in Westlake Village, California.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Many students from my alma mater, Pepperdine Law School and
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: Pepperdine University were there, and this is just a horrific
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: tragedy that's strikes home. I represent as you know, many
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: many victims of the Root nine Harvest Festival, the horrific
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: shooting that took place in Las Vegas about a year
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: ago October of last year, and many of those same
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: people that were affected by that tragedy in Las Vegas
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: were there last night. Last night was a country night,
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: and at college country night, many students were there just
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: because they wanted to engage in line dancing. Describe this
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: suspect suspects from like a quick glance of what I saw.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: I liked that you had a black hat, um black glasses,
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: had a beard. I don't know if he was wearing
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: like a black it was a black shirt, but I
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: don't know if it was like a jacket or not.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: But yeah, he didn't even like say anything too So
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: it all just happened so quick. They were very very
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: loud gunshots. They were very clear what they were. You know,
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: it was definitely not the music. You know, there are
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: people in the middle dancing and just hanging out and
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: having a good time. There was some smoke. I mean,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: I got out of there as fast as I could,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: so I can't say anything as to what. You know,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: other people that were in there, you know, had experience
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: with so as soon as you heard the gun shots,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: you just took off out the door. Oh no, we
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: got down because I heard people screaming, everyone get down,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: and you know, I've never experienced this before, so I'm
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: gonna listen to whatever they tell me to do. Very scary,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: but once you know, the shots kept going and going
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: and going. Um, we just heard people stay run and
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: we looked it as fast as we cut. Many of
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: you America, across America, people wake up this morning to
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: learn about a student massacre at Lee's. Twelve victims gun
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: down college students in their teens, including a sheriff's deputy,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: in a horrific, horrific local bar shooting. You were just hearing,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: an unidentified woman describing hearing gunfire at first thinking it
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: was part of the music. Getting down on the floor
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: and crawling as fast as she could to try to
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: get out. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories. Thank
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: you for being with us. And I know it's not
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: politically correct, and I know I'll take the heat, but
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: if you can join us in a prayer for these
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: families that are suffering right now, learning that their child
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: they have loved so much has died on an innocent
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: night out at this hour, police and forensics cruise combing
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: the interior of the Borderline bar with me right now. Uh,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: well known for forensics expert, a superstar in her field,
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Karen Smith joining me out of the Florida jurisdiction. Karen,
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: You've been on so many crime scenes, so many homicide scenes.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: What are they doing inside the bar? Now? The first
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: thing they're going to do is, UH, rescue anyone that
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: can be rescued at that point, They're going to go
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: in very methodically. Um, they have time at this point. Um,
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: you know that they're not going to take anyone that
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: suffered a fatal injury out of the bar. Um. You know,
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: they're dealing with the death of one of their own.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: They're going to have to put their emotions aside, which
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: is probably the hardest part um. At this point, they're
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: going to start documenting everything. Uh. You know, everybody has
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: questions about what the weapon was, how many weapons this
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: man had, what type of weapons they were, that's going
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: to come out once the investigation begins. They'll start feeding
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: the information to the public Information officer. UH, photography and
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: videotaping will take place, and then they will start identifying, uh,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: those that remain inside the bar. Karen Smith joining me,
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: forensics expert. You know, you never see this coming. There's
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: no way that you would know this was going to happen.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: We are learning multiple people, including young students and law enforcement,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: murdered at a country music bar in southern California after
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: a masked gunman wearing all black opens fire on a
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: crowd of teens. Opening fire on a crowd of innocent
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: teens from heavily Christian colleges, many of them with a
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: black X on their hands to indicate they were not
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: drinking that night. The government opening fire inside this crowded
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: country music bar late late in the evening, a sheriff's
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: deputy down After the deputy rushed inside to confront the shooter.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: The gunfire erupted as people were actually Lyne dancing their
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: college country night. Uh that borderline bar and grill and
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: Francy Haiggs, former federal prosecutor, that made it even more
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: difficult for people to understand what was happening. It reminds
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: me a great deal of the Orlando shooting. The music's playing,
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: people are out their line dancing. Um, they can't hear
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: what's going on. It's crowded, they can't really see what's happening.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: It's a highly popular night spot there in Thousand Oaks, California,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: especially among college students. And the shooter knew that when
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: he went in and opened fire, he knew he was
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: shooting heavily Christian students from the two local colleges, Francy,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: but no one can understand what was happening around them. Francy. No,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: you're right, Nancy. It's really horrific when you think about it.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: This gunman obviously came prepared. He had smoke grenades, and
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: his targeting college students who are innocently having a good
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: time at a bar. And the difficult thing now is
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: going to be figuring out exactly what happened. And for
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: law enforcement, they are on the ground desperately try trying
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: to ensure that there was not some kind of conspiracy.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Are there other people out there? Is this part of
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: a plot? Another thing we got to worry about is
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: very often with crime scenes like this, there's a multiple attack.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Uh m o uh. You know, think back on the
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: abortion clinic bombings or various shootings where several things happened
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: within a space of time, you know, a certain space
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: of time like eight o'clock today, eight o'clock tomorrow, eight
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: o'clock the next day, or multiple shootings, you know, a
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: cluster event. That's what they're also looking for. You know.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: One thing among the many things we're learning this morning
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: about the shooter, Karen start, he actually drove his mother's
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: car to the club, and that right there tells me
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: a lot about him. Well, Nancy, I think it's just
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: it's so hard. I wish we knew more about him.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: That's part of what happens in these shootings is that
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: it's so difficult to get into the mind of what
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: you cause somebody to go out there so so violently
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: and just have such a strong disregard for life. And
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: when I was that as you were talking about the children,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: and I was thinking, look, everyone's gonna die sooner or later.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: But to realize that young lives have been taken without
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: any of what happened to them, as is happening, thinking
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: that they're hearing firecrackers going off, it's just the worst
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: kind of news. Karen Start, New York Psychologists. I'm a
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: little stunned with you right now. Of course, everybody's going
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: to die, and I know that, But why do you
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: have to die when you're a teens to that at
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: pepper Dawn as opposed to when you fall asleep at
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: age ninety three and past, go to sleep and wake
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: up in heaven. Hold on, I'm being joined right now,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: I Cheryl McCullum, Director of the Cold Case Research Institute. Cheryl,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: you've done, along with me and on your own, so
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: many profiles off shooters. It tells me a lot about
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: this guy. He had to drive his mommy's car to
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: the club for a me to engage in a mass shooting.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: He had to drive his mom's car. Cheryl McCullum, correct, Yeah,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: this this tells you. You know, he's probably, by society standards,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: is not a very successful person. And he probably understood
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: that as well, Nancy. He picked a soft target and
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna say this over and over and over. These
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: mass shooters are pumped. They are weak. So what they
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: do is they pick churches, they picked clubs, They picked
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: crowds where they're at a you know, higher level, so
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: that no one can stop them, nobody can hurt them.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: So they take the club with these college kids. There's
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: no guns in the rows. The smoke bombs, so nobody
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: can see him and overpower him. He has no victim
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: in mind. It is random. It is whoever gets in
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: the way of that bullet. We are talking right now
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: about the Thousand Oaks shooting. Multiple fatalities at the Borderline Bar,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: including a sheriff's deputy. It's overwhelming. Listen, I come here
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: a line, my dance line, and I was just dancing,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: you know, I having a good night number Wednesday and
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: my bows at root, so I know a gun shots
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: sound like and critical offense. They knew I slayd down
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: on mangles. They could try to pick me people as
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: they could. And then shooting kept going. They were during
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: smoke bombs, and then it kind of hit me like okay,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: it's I'm going to work. And then I just broke windows,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: broke I just hunked up the window and it was wrong.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: The last people out didn't see anybody who did see
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: the gut stuff nice random transport as I can as
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  Speaker 1: do apply. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. They are assuming
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: the worst for my son. So they went in there.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: They all got out, but he didn't come out, So
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: did they say what he was when they last he
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: went to the bar to get the drinks for everybody,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: and that's when they heard the shocks ringing out and
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: oh panic, going to the hospital. We did call the hospital.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: They don't. They're going through their crazy triash right now.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: So they don't have any names or anybody that they
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: they don't want to talk yet, so I haven't been
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: over there. That's my next step is to go there yet.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: What did they tell you here? They just take your
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: information and tell you to wait? How is that is
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: it out? Like I said, I'm pret emotional. Tell me
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: about Cody was POD's personality? Awesome? Um, we're very Christian
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: raised family and everything. It's he he's a very good kid.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: You know, he's very good in school. He's very sports oriented. Uh,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: was going into the army. So we're gonna have to
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: wait and see and then the situation you're answer that,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: please answer, That's okay. I'm like, if you get word
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: to you talked about these most shootings that you've been seeing.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: We've ever talked about things. Yeah, that's why I'm very Uh,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: I'm curious right now. And you know, raising him way
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: we raised the White House and he picked up a
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: cellphone anybody's cell phone, and he's called home. So I
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: don't understand where where we're at this point. That shock,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: I'm actually I'm very very in shock. You're hearing from
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Jason Kaufman, whose son Cody was inside the Borderline Bar.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: Right now, are ars are with the families. I'm not
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: only the students, the victims in this case, but those
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: who are wondering about their loved one who don't have
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: an answer yet. If you need information on your loved one,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: dial eight zero five four six five six six five
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: zero repeat eight zero five four six five six six
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: five zero. We are learning a lot about the shooter.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: We are learning that he has been described by an
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: anonymous sources of twenty nine year old male armed with
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: a glock handgun and a smoke device. That he drove
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: his mother's card to Borderline Bar, which was crowded with
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Christians students that night, didn't say a word before opening fire.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: That tells me a lot. And I'm gonna circle back
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: to Cheryl Francy and Karen Stark on that, because that
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: tells me he had a motive before he went in.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: He didn't go in and just getting a bar fight
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: and unload. Right now, we know of at least twelve
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: victims dead inside the Borderline Bar. There was quote blood everywhere,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: a horrific scene. Witnesses reporting the gunfire blasted through the club.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Those who recognize it as being gunfire, ran for cover,
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: in some cases even taking chairs to break open windows
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: to try and get out. Many hid in bathrooms. They
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: found an attic, and they frantically began calling their parents,
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: calling their loved ones, telling them they were caught inside.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: We've gotten identify basically description of the gunman. Dressed in
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: all black, including a black hat, a black shirt, black glasses,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: and he seemingly focused his firepipe firepower on the front
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: of the bar as soon as he entered, just pulling
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: out a gun and shooting, shooting. According to a witness,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: um many thought it was an unmistakable sound of gunfire.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Others thought it was fireworks or maybe part of the music.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: People hiding under pool tables. To Cheryl McCollum, h c
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: s I and director of the Cold Case Research Institute,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: is your job to put crime scene cases back together again.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: The fact that he walked in and started shooting, dressed
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: in all black tells me he premeditated this. He planned it.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: He had a vendetta motive. It wasn't against any one
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: person in particular. What does it tell you, Cheryl, am
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: I wrong, No, You're dead on and he was ready
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: for battle. He went there with a clear objective to
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: kill as many people as he could without being stopped.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: That's what he did. And he will be very uh,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: he'll leave a footprint as it were only his social media.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: He's been very vocal. He has not hidden us at all. Um.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: So what they're gonna do today is they're gonna go
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: through his computer, that's gonna go through his phone. They're
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: gonna talk to friends, family, co workers, if he had
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: jobs here and there, and they're gonna start piecing his
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: bat together. But the victims were random. This act was not.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: And Nancy, I'm going to keep my mantra every time
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: we talk about one of these things mental health, mental health,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: mental health. If we do not get a handle on that,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: these types of events are not gonna stop. But part
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: of that to Karen start Nework psychologists joining us, she's right,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: Sheryl McCollum is right. But these people are not legally insane.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: So there's i e. Translation, they don't know wrong from right.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: I may say, oh, you're crazy or he's crazy, but
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: in the legal sense, he is not mentally insane. In
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: other words, doesn't know right from wrong. If he did,
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: he wouldn't be dressed in all black so as not
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: to be detective. He wouldn't have snuck in the way
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: he did. He wouldn't have concealed his weapon. He knew
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: what he was doing had consequences. He knew what he
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: was doing was wrong. But to Cheryl mccollumb's point, what
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: about um the park Line shooting? What about so many
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: other shootings where people have these borderline or full on
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: personality disorders, like a persecution complex or paranoia, or they
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: feel like they're hated, or they feel like they're on
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: the outside looking in. You know, it goes on and
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: on and on. They're not insane, and I don't know
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: if they can be identified, Cheryl McCollum. Wasn't he just
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: looking at random crowd and go, oh yeah, number one,
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: number eight, number fifty, number seventy two. You have borderline
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: personality disorders, So I'm gonna watch you to make sure
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: you don't do a mass shooting. I think it's impossible.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: It's like picking one corn flake out of a box
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: and saying this is the weird one. It is impossible.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: And they have trying so hard to identify people like
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: this through social media, and look what happens, Nancy, how
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: many times him now Pittsburgh. It just keeps happening over
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: and over again, and then you find in hindsight that
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: all of this was there. You could have seen it,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: but no one knows where to look. There are too
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: many things that are happening with those who media. With
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: the Internet, you can't identify a person like this because
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: they are not that public. They are not so out there,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: and they are not demonstratable people who have mental illness,
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: and that's part of the problem. They often seem like loners.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: They don't have friends. There are no ways to really
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: pick these people out of the crowd. That's the problem
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: is that how do we find them they would be
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: able to identify them. Well, I know this, I know
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: that very often people get a vibe. Okay, we were
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: just talking about the misogynist to shoot her, who basically
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: adulated Elliott Roger, the Virgin Killer. He coincidentally was in
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: the thousand area as well. He would speak you hate
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: for women and talk about trying to get this date.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: She didn't show up. G I wonder why, I mean,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: they put off that vibe that we're talking about. But
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Francy Haggs, you know you're the former federal prosecutor. The
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: reality is, are we and I'm not faulting in the government.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: It's like literally a needle in a haystack. If any
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: of you ever raised in a rural area of finding
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: a needle in a haystack, yeah, that's not gonna happen. Okay. So, Francy,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: we can't even catch the terrorists by monitoring the internet, okay,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: And we're trying. It's just there's too many of them.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: And how are we going to catch people with social
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: disorders to try to stop a potential shooting. I don't
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: know this means anything to these victims this morning. It's
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: just like blah blah, blah blah blah. But I'm hearing
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: Cheryl is there away. You're absolutely right, Nancy, hate does
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: not equate to criminal activity. We cannot police thought. Now.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: There are certainly hate crimes, but that only ever comes
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: after the crime has happened, as we see in the
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: case of synagogue shooting in Pittsburgh, we will hear eventually
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: what his motive was. Cheryl is absolutely right. There will
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: be a social media footprint. He will have left a note,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: there will be writings, there will be text message, there
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: will be something that will tell us after the fact
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: what he was thinking and why he did what he did.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: But it is almost impossible for federal authorities who can't
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: really shut down isis on Twitter to find those who
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: are going to go on a shooting rampage. He leaves
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: behind a wife and a son. He uh. He was
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: a fifty four year old resident Moore Park and he
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: uh he epitomized what a cop does. He's a cops cop.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: He when he heard the gunfire, he ran in. He
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: ran in and no doubt saved others from being victimized.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, earlier, a young man that
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: was inside the nightclip came up to me and said,
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: you know what, he saved additional people from being victims.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: And that's uh, that's what cops do. That's what that's
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: what he did. Ron was a hard working, dedicated sheriff
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Sheriff's sergeant. He was so really committed. He gave his
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: all and tonight, as I told his wife, he died
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: a hero because he went he went in to save lives,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: to save other people. Sergeant Hillis died at the sergeant
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: passed away at the hospital about an hour ago. I
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: only mentioned might be terrorists because that's where we all
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: go these days, and we have multiple shootings like this,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: there's no reason for it, and we have this horrific death.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: I have nothing to lead me to believe or the
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: FBI that there is any terrorism link here, but we
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: certainly will look at that option. You are hearing Ventura
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: County Sheriff Jeff Dean announcing the death of his comrades,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Sergeant Ron Hellis, who leaves behind a wife and family,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: just fifty four years old. Running into Borderline Bar and
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: Grill to try and say other people again, I know
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: it's not PC, but please join me in prayer for
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: the victims and their families as they woke up this
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: morning to discover their child was shot down on an
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: innocent night out on student night at a country restaurant
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: in bar joining me Alan Duke in l A. Alan,
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: I think it's very indicative, very probative as to who
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: he shot first. Several of the witnesses we've heard from
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: so far say the first person shot was the hostess,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: a woman who was at the front door of the
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: Borderline Grill, who everybody knew because she was there every night.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: She was the first person shot. Then it was the doorman,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: the security person also standing near the door, and then
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: they also say he went behind the bar and started shooting.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Right now, parents and to determine where their child is.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: The hospitals in triage right now, even now as they
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: try to determine who's dead and who is alive. Karen Smith,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: forensics expert, joining me, it's so important that the crime
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: scene they handled delicately. The removal of bodies is a horrible,
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: a daunting task. Yeah, it is. It's uh, it's heartbreaking.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: And once they identify those that are inside, they are,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: like Cheryl McCullum said, they're going to dig into the
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: shooter social media. They're going to execute a search warrant
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: at his residence and find out if there's any evidence
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: left there of a footprint, of notes, of any other weapons. Um,
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: you know, just from experience, I can guarantee you there's more.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: There's going to be a treasure trove of information on
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: both of those fronts. And you know, these these officers,
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: these investigators that are going to work this scene, that
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: they're going to carry this with them the rest of
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: their lives as well, and I know their heart. You're
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: breaking for the victims and for their colleagues. This just
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: months after fifty eight people killed that a country music
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: festival in Vegas when alone gunman opens fire in the Mandalay.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: Now some people at the Borderline Bar at college night
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: had also apparently survived the shooting in Vegas. What about it?
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: Troy Slaton joining me, l a defense attorney who actually
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: represents the owner of Borderline Bar. What about it? Troy? Well, Luckily, Nancy,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: I can report that I just heard from my my
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: friend and client who is the owner of Borderline Bar.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: He he just texted me and let me know that
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: he was okay. He arrived at the bar right as
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: the shooting was occurring and helped drag some people to safety. Uh,
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: this was a country western night at Borderline Bar. I
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: don't know if any of my clients were there last
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: night yet, it's still too early. This is a horrific event.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: Most people, Nancy, don't even experienced something like this once
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: in their lifetime, and for people to experience this twice
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: in about a year's time has got to be emotionally
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: and psychologically devastating. Listen to a witness. Where I was
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: looking at the time was at the front door, and
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: I saw them the suspect walk in and basically pull
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: out his gun and let off the first couple of
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: shots at the girl that was working the front desk,
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: And immediately I was in shock, and I was like,
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this is really happening right now. And
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: I immediately just went down to the floor just to
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: get cover and make sure I was safe, and just
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: some people that I was with, and I started crawling
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: on the floor until I was able to have access
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: to run out the door. And then when I started
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: running out the door, um, I heard more gunshots like
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: behind me, so I didn't know if they were coming
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: towards me or not, so I just took off in
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: a full sprint. The first call of shots fired came
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: in around eleven PM. According to Ventura County Sheriff Jeff Dean.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: The gunman we believe shot a hostess that worked there
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: all the time. UH. A witness holding Harrah tells us
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: that he sees the same host as the same girl
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: every time he's there. Friendly, sweet outgoing, then shoots a
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: bouncer clearly so he won't be stopped, apparently using a
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: short barreled handgun with a black trench coat, eyeglasses, black
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: Beard drove his mommy's car to the scene. It's overwhelming
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: to those that have suffered this tremendous, tremendous loss. Were
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: their warning signs? We don't know, but what we do
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: know is that grieving families all around the country are
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: mourning now. Sheriff's Sergeant Ron helis killed in this Thousand
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: Oaks attack, leaving behind a wife and a son. We
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: know that most of the victims were between one and
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: twenty three, coming from local Christian schools. Listen right now
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: to your county Sheriff Jeff Dean. The suspect was identified
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: as Iron David Long. He was twenty eight years old.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: We've had several contacts with Mr Long over the years.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: In April of this year, deputies were called to his
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: house for a subject disturbing. They went to the house,
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: they talked to him, he was he was somewhat irate,
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: acting a little irrationally. They called out our crisis intervention team,
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: our mental health specialist who met with him, talked to
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: him and cleared him. Didn't feel that he was qualified
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: to be taken under It appears he walked up to
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: the scene. He shot the security guard that was standing
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: outside he stepped inside. It appears that he turned to
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: the right and shot several of the other security and
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: employees there and then began opening fire inside the nightclub.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: We have we have no idea what the motive was
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: at this point, and that held was never placed on him.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: The crisis, the crisis the mental health experts out there
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: cleared him that day. We he was he was a veteran,
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: he was in the United States Marine Corps and she's
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: already heard maybe suffering from PTSD to a crisis team.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: I that was I understand that was part of the
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: discussion when the deputies went out to the call with
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: the crisis team that felt he might be suffering from PTSD,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: facing that the fact he was a veteran and had
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: been on the core. Can you can find anymore how
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: the deputy was shot. When Sergeant Helas and the higher
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: patrol officer went in, uh, they immediately exchanged gunfire with
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: the suspect, and that's when the sergeant Helis was shot
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: several times. Do you know the suspect shot No, I
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: have no idea about the service rector when the suspect
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: was shot. If he shot himself, think it's not gonna
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: we believe he shot himself. When the officers went in
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: and made re entry he they found him already deceased.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: How long before he he was found inside uh an
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: office just adjacent to the entry to the bar. It's
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: our understand that Sergeant Helis was able to call his
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: wife right before he ran into the bar. Sergeant Heillis
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: was having a conversation with his wife on the phone,
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: as he does several times during the shift, and said
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: to her, Hey, I gotta go handle a call. I
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: love you, I'll talk to you later. An alldication that
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: he made a targeted Now there's no indication that he
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: targeted the employees or we haven't found any correlation. We'll
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: probably no more after we execute the search war in
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: his house. That maybe there was a motive for this
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: particular night, but at this point we have no information
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: leading to the at all. This is how it sounded
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: on police radios. The progress at the quarterline really drive.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: Have you hearing dead shots fired? One person advising there's
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: a subject inside, shooting approximately eight shots. The weapon was
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: a black semi automatic. He does not have a description
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: arcubis the subject was at the front shooting everybody. If
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: he's still inside the bar. Yes, it's just funny. To
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: the borderline. We have one victim advice. He was shot
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: in fleeting at the entrance. Four sons, three, We got
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: multiple people. Don't we need love angels? Released? Five young
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: inside at the borderline. We do. We're landline with some
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: witnesses and victims that are inside the bathroom. We have people. Uh,
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: he's in the attic with nine other people at the borderline.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: That police radio courtesy of Broadcastify. Listen to this man
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: who was in the bar with his steps on as
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: the shooting started. While he describes what he saw it,
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: you can hear his feelings of guilt for not being
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: able to stop the gunmen. He shut the the cashier
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: just a young girl, and then he started moving to
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: the right. It wasn't looking at us, and even into
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: the office where all the cash and stuff is. He
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: didn't say anything at all. He just started shooting. And
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: I should have stayed until he changed his clip. But
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: I was worried about my boy, but I should have stayed.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: I apologize to anybody who got her. I'm passed. I'm sorry. Fine,
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: not much you could have done any situation like that.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: They're all young I'm I'm fifty six, I lived life,
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: and they're all young and this shouldn't happen and it
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: was just some low life taking lives I shouldn't have
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: and take him. Could you could you tell what kind
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: of weapon he was using? He had a he had
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: a handgun. I couldn't tell. It was allowed maybe a
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: funny for maybe a little smaller, but it had a
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: good ring to it, and it was just loud, and
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: he had smoked. He was trying to confuse people, and
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: then he went to the right to start to shoot
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: on the dance floor and there was just young people
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: like you know, eighteen, just having a great time. This
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: maniac came in and started shooting people for no reason
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: at all. These people have never heard anybody in there
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: on handstad and they're just kids. They're just kids. I'm
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: so sorry. So you two just got out of there
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: as big as you could. Could you tell if the
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: fiery was going to he it was caused until he
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: changed clips. If you have if amation, or if you
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: need information on your loved one, please dial eight zero
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: five four six five six six five zero eight oh
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: five four six five six six five zero. Nancy Grace
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories signing off goodbye friend,