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Serial Killer Uses Shopping Cart to Dump Victims Bodies · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace one, two, three, four, five
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Speaker 1: dead bodies that we know of. Are they connected to
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Speaker 1: the same serial killer? Is the same serial killer connected
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Speaker 1: to thirty five repeat thirty five other jurisdiction murders. That's
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Speaker 1: what we know right now. What will we learn? I
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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace this Crime Stories, Thank you for being with
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Speaker 1: us here at Fox Nation and Serious XM one eleven.
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Speaker 1: First of all, take a listen to please Chief Kevin Davis.
1:00
Speaker 1: We have a serial killer. The challenge that remains is
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Speaker 1: identifying other victims, and we're going to talk about that
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Speaker 1: at great length. Our serial killer is called the shopping
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Speaker 1: cart killer. He's called the shopping cart killer because he
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Speaker 1: meets his victims, and so far we have three are
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Speaker 1: positively two or positively identified, one is tentatively identified, and
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Speaker 1: one is unknown. He meets his victims on dating sites.
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Speaker 1: He meets his victims then at motels, and we'll talk
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Speaker 1: about a motel that he met two of his victims
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Speaker 1: at here in Fairfax County. After he inflicts trauma to
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Speaker 1: his victims and kills them, he transports their bodies to
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Speaker 1: their final resting place, literally in a shopping cart. You know,
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Speaker 1: if you parse the police chief Kevin Davis's words, quote,
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Speaker 1: we have a serial killer. Very often police chiefs and
2:02
Speaker 1: law enforcement don't want to tell the public they think
2:05
Speaker 1: they've got a serial killer. But we figured it out,
2:07
Speaker 1: so I guess they had to go ahead and announce it.
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Speaker 1: They can't identify all the victims, which is a big problem.
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Speaker 1: I prosecuted a Jane Doe murder before, and you don't
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Speaker 1: know who she is, where she's from, what her patterns are,
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Speaker 1: who she knows, who she may have come in contact with.
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Speaker 1: Very difficult to prosecuted Jane Doe murder. We also know
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Speaker 1: dating sites are involved. And then after as you hear
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Speaker 1: him say, inflicting trauma to them, what does that mean?
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Speaker 1: Slice them up, torture them, bludging them. He then murders
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Speaker 1: them and transports their bodies to their final resting place,
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Speaker 1: literally in a shopping cart. Now why does that offend
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Speaker 1: me so much? Not just the murder, but then putting
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Speaker 1: them in a shopping cart like they're saca potatoes, and
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Speaker 1: then carting them off and just leaving them somewhere. Have
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Speaker 1: you ever driven or walked anywhere and seen abandoned shopping carts?
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Speaker 1: I see them all the time, and I can identify
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Speaker 1: that's a home depot, that's the Kroger, that's the public.
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Speaker 1: That's this about at Walmart? A dead body, A woman's
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Speaker 1: body just left out in the open on a busy
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Speaker 1: street as shopping cart, like she's a pound of flower.
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Speaker 1: I mean, what does that tell us about the killer?
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Speaker 1: And now he may be connected to thirty five separate
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Speaker 1: jurisdictions with a size. Again, I'm Nancy Grayson. This is
4:03
Speaker 1: Crime Stories, and as always, we thank you for being
4:07
Speaker 1: with us, sharing your time with us as we investigate
4:12
Speaker 1: hardcore crime with me and all star panel to make
4:16
Speaker 1: sense of what we know right now. First of all,
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Speaker 1: Professor University Texas School of Law, Chief Legal Officer Texas
4:24
Speaker 1: Advocacy Project, Bronwyn Blake and Bronwin I need to get
4:30
Speaker 1: a website for you so I can look you up online.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists joining us out of the
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Speaker 1: Atlanta jurisdiction at Angela Arnold MD dot com. Professor Psychiatry,
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Speaker 1: Lisa Daddio, former police Lieutenant Newhaan, PD, lecturer and Director
4:49
Speaker 1: of the Center for Advanced Policing, a University New Haven's
4:53
Speaker 1: Forensic Science Department. Doctor Michelle Duprie, longtime friend and college
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Speaker 1: forensic pathologists, former medical examiner, detective and she literally wrote
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Speaker 1: the book or the books Homicide Investigation Field Guide, which
5:11
Speaker 1: I love that book and Investigating Child to Bees Field
5:15
Speaker 1: Guide also great. But first let's go to crime online
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Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter Alexis terrest check Alexis. First of all,
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Speaker 1: I want you to hear this our cut three more
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Speaker 1: from police Chief Kevin Davis. We believe that there may
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Speaker 1: be other victims in the area and throughout the Commonwealth
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Speaker 1: of Virginia, and we need to act now. We need
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Speaker 1: to act right now with our law enforce and partners
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Speaker 1: to figure out who else our killer has had contact
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Speaker 1: with and what's his m O. Dating sites, motels, blunt force, trauma,
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Speaker 1: shopping cart, final resting place. He's killed four already and
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Speaker 1: we suspect that he has more victims. He's a predator,
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Speaker 1: as all serial killers are, and it's our collective effort
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Speaker 1: in law enforcement to do everything we can with each other,
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Speaker 1: with the community to identify other places where he has
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Speaker 1: been so we can bring closure and ultimately justice. He
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Speaker 1: prays on the week he preys on the vulnerable, our
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Speaker 1: shopping cart killer does unspeakable things with his victims. This
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Speaker 1: guy gets around. I do not believe these murders are copycats, Alexis.
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Speaker 1: Trust Chuck. Tell me the signature style the shopping cart
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Speaker 1: killer uses. So he meets these women on dating sites,
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Speaker 1: so this is online. He meets them there a couple.
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Speaker 1: He's using plenty of fish and tagged two differents. Plenty
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Speaker 1: of fish and what tagged like? You're tagged in a
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Speaker 1: picture tj dged tagged Yeah. Isn't plenty of fish a
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Speaker 1: Christian day website? I think it was in the beginning.
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Speaker 1: I think everybody is welcome though, well, Alexis, that's what
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Speaker 1: Christianity is all about. Everybody is welcome. But I still
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Speaker 1: think of it as a Christian dating app because I
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Speaker 1: guess that's how it started. And then I thought you
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Speaker 1: were saying tag But it's tagged like tag you're it
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Speaker 1: well put? So he's that. That tells me something right there,
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Speaker 1: And I don't want to interrupt your flow. But to
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Speaker 1: doctor Angel Arnold, this is not like some thug standing
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Speaker 1: in a corner waiting for a woman to walk by
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Speaker 1: and then he grabs her and kills her. This guy's
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Speaker 1: more sophisticated than that he's actually going online. He is
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Speaker 1: selecting a certain type of woman, be she white or black,
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Speaker 1: or tall or short, or you know, brunette or blonde.
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Speaker 1: He's picking a certain type, I believe, and luring them.
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Speaker 1: That's fairly sophisticated. I mean, I see the bulk arders
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Speaker 1: are not nearly that sophisticated. Doctor Angie, right, you know, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: I think that he's luring anybody that will swipe back
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Speaker 1: and and accept his invitation. I'm I'm not so sure
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Speaker 1: if he has a type. It's just so unfortunate that
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Speaker 1: he is able to get into these into these dating
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Speaker 1: apps that everybody uses. Now thirty percent of adults in
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Speaker 1: the US have said they have used online dating apps.
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Speaker 1: Can you believe that Nancy, David and I got set
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Speaker 1: up on a blind date. It's ubiquitous in our society now,
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Speaker 1: isn't it? But can I tell you something? Nobody poo
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Speaker 1: poo dating sites. Because my nephew, who's really a smart guy,
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Speaker 1: double major in college and let's see chemistry and it
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Speaker 1: and now he's an IT troublesheeter for a big corporation.
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Speaker 1: He met his wife on a dating app. They're perfectly happy.
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Speaker 1: I forgot how many years they've been married. Now they
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Speaker 1: have a beautiful little boy. I mean, it works so right,
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Speaker 1: I'm not surprised at that figure. And if they didn't work, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: they wouldn't still be around, and more and more wouldn't
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Speaker 1: be created. But women still need to be so careful
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Speaker 1: and they can't throw caution to the wound when they're
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Speaker 1: using these dating apps. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,
9:30
Speaker 1: we are talking about a guy, and of course it's
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Speaker 1: a guy. You know, people say, are you a man hater? No,
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Speaker 1: I'm not a man hater. I just hate murderers. Back
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Speaker 1: to you, Alexis Rustchuck so dating app. I'm still waiting
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Speaker 1: to hear how shopping cart gets into it. But take
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Speaker 1: it from there. I don't want to leave anything out.
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Speaker 1: Go ahead. Alexis so mess women on dating apps. In fact,
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Speaker 1: one of them he was. It seems there was more
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Speaker 1: than one date. He actually had met her family, so
10:03
Speaker 1: they were It wasn't just we meet on a dating app.
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Speaker 1: Let's meet up, let's go to a motel together, and
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Speaker 1: he kills them there. What happens is he's establishing a
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Speaker 1: relationship with one of them. Then this is where the
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Speaker 1: mote where I said motel. He has been seen at
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Speaker 1: a motel at least six times and victims that police
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Speaker 1: have started realizing that the victims were also at this hotel.
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Speaker 1: So explain to me, because that's a little odd to you.
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Speaker 1: Rom and Blake joining me a Jump Professor University Texas
10:36
Speaker 1: School of Law. Rom And, of course all martyrs are
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Speaker 1: odd in their own way. But the fact that he
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Speaker 1: would actually develop a relationship with one of his victims,
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Speaker 1: that is unusual because typically victims of serial killers are
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Speaker 1: treated as inanimate objects like trophies. The fact that he
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Speaker 1: would actually date one of them on more than one asian,
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Speaker 1: I find that to be very unusual. I agree with you, Nancy.
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Speaker 1: I think if we just look at this as a
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Speaker 1: serial killer, or even use those words shopping cart killer,
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Speaker 1: that's really disceasing because we have to look at the
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Speaker 1: fact of this tape. And you and I both know
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Speaker 1: abusive people can be very charming. It can be tricky
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Speaker 1: to spot. So if we just hear about want force
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Speaker 1: traumat it's hard to go back and think how did
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Speaker 1: this begin. Abusive people know how to prey on vulnerability.
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Speaker 1: Many of these women maybe they needed love and companionship,
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Speaker 1: and this is somebody who they thought could deliver those things.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Angela was sharing that this is a predator. Chief
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Speaker 1: Kevin dave Us was saying, this is a predator. It
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Speaker 1: seems almost like a dirty John situation to me that
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Speaker 1: this person you could possibly have been charming them online.
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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut eight. This is our friend,
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Speaker 1: Sierra Fox at Fox five DC and August, investigators have
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Speaker 1: found four bodies and say all victims were killed with
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Speaker 1: blood forced trauma. The most recent human remains, discovered in
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Speaker 1: a shopping cart in Alexandria, Virginia, are believed to be
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Speaker 1: twenty nine year old Cheyenne Brown, who was missing from
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Speaker 1: southeast DCN family help police identify Brown after recognizing her tattoo.
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Speaker 1: Investigators revealed she had been talking on a dating site
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Speaker 1: almost pregnant at the time of her death. Video from
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Speaker 1: the night she was killed shows Brown taking the Metro
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Speaker 1: from DC to the Huntington Metro stop, but she never returned.
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Speaker 1: Detectives are holding off on releasing any video and photos
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Speaker 1: from the incident. Said this time, as they worked with
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Speaker 1: the victims families, you know when I worked in DC,
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Speaker 1: I took the metro. I can't even count how many
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Speaker 1: hundreds of times it likes us Urez chuck, that woman
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Speaker 1: named Cheyenne Brown. You didn't get to the part about
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Speaker 1: how they end up in a shopping cart. So he
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Speaker 1: kills them. Where he has killed them, we are still
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Speaker 1: trying to find out what they are. They are found
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Speaker 1: near two of him were found together in the wood
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Speaker 1: near a motel in Virginia. The Moon in motel. Hey,
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Speaker 1: can I just talk about this hotel? The Moon in
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Speaker 1: a hotel in Fairfax County looks like an old I
13:20
Speaker 1: guess Antebellum mansion, but it does. I mean, when you
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Speaker 1: hear the word motel, you think of like some city
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Speaker 1: flop house in a bad area of town. Doesn't look
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Speaker 1: like that at all to me. I mean, it's manicured
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Speaker 1: lawn and shrubbery, and this got the American flag flying
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Speaker 1: out front and wreaths on the door. It's immaculately kept up.
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Speaker 1: And then not far away, I see a picture of
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Speaker 1: Oh I identified it's a target shopping cart and it
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Speaker 1: looks like it's down a ravine of sorts. So I
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Speaker 1: want to get back to the shopping cart aspect of
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Speaker 1: this to doctor Michelle dupre joining me, former medical examiner.
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Speaker 1: She's a forensic pathologist, Doctor Michelle Dupree. You ever see
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Speaker 1: anything like it? Absolutely, we had stuff like this in
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Speaker 1: Miami and other large cities all the time. Oh, let's
14:23
Speaker 1: talk about Miami. I'm all about crime in Miami because
14:27
Speaker 1: of dexter yees and when I was fed, we had
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Speaker 1: a lot of cases in Miami, fraud cases. It was
14:35
Speaker 1: what I was dealing with in Miami. Go ahead, I'm
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Speaker 1: all ears well, we had there was large homeless populations,
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Speaker 1: for example, and so there were several times when we
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Speaker 1: had homeless go missing and nobody really tracked them. I mean,
14:48
Speaker 1: nobody would miss them, so to speak. Sometimes it was
14:52
Speaker 1: by luck that we even found out. But I remember
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Speaker 1: one specific case. It was a serial killer case. What
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Speaker 1: do you make of the wholes shopping cart aspect, Because
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Speaker 1: that's staging the scene to the nth degree, And staging
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Speaker 1: does not have to be sophisticated. For instance, I'm putting
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Speaker 1: a blanket over the victim's face. I had a case
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Speaker 1: where the victim had been covered with leaves and branches.
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Speaker 1: Case where the perp tried to stage just seemed to
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Speaker 1: look like a suicide set of a homicide, and would
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Speaker 1: not have figured that one out if it hadn't been
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Speaker 1: for blood spatter evidence. But it goes on and on.
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Speaker 1: It can be very sophisticated, or it can be like this,
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Speaker 1: putting your victim, I wonder if they were closed or unclothed,
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Speaker 1: and I wonder if they were raped or not, in
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Speaker 1: a shopping cart and pushing it down a ravine. We're
15:49
Speaker 1: hold on Alexis Terrestia, where all the bodies and shopping
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Speaker 1: carts found in a wooded area, or any of them
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Speaker 1: left on the street in a shopping cart. So far,
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Speaker 1: there are five victims that we know of. Four of
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Speaker 1: them were found in wooded areas or like an undeveloped
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Speaker 1: commercial parking lot out in the kind of the suburbs
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Speaker 1: of DC, so in Virginia. But one woman was actually
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Speaker 1: found in a shopping cart, just a blanket over her
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Speaker 1: body by Union Station in Washington, DC, which is a
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Speaker 1: heavily trafficed area that you know, I told you to
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Speaker 1: the metro every when I was working in DC all
16:24
Speaker 1: the time, That's where I would catch it right there
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Speaker 1: at Union Station and inside Union Station when I lived there,
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Speaker 1: it was full of all sorts of high end restaurants
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Speaker 1: and those super expensive coffee shops and shops where they
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Speaker 1: saw nothing but hats and gloves and scarfs, like cashmere things,
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Speaker 1: that kind of of shopping. I would never even get
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Speaker 1: a coffee there because it would be like seven dollars
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Speaker 1: forget it. But it's the dichotomy of that, Lisa da
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Speaker 1: As opposed to just outside there's a dead woman and
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Speaker 1: a shopping cart with a blanket over her. Yeah, it's just,
17:08
Speaker 1: you know, it's tough. And again, I'm also very familiar
17:10
Speaker 1: with Union Station down in DC, and it's the high
17:13
Speaker 1: traffic of it. You have to take into account everything
17:16
Speaker 1: that's going on down there, and to see a shopping
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Speaker 1: cart with a blanket over not paying attention to the
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Speaker 1: cart itself, you may think it belongs to a nearby
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Speaker 1: homeless person or somebody who's belongings are there from a
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Speaker 1: homeless person. You're not thinking twice about the fact that
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Speaker 1: there may be a body in it, and no one's
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Speaker 1: paying attention to it, ignoring it, going about doing their
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Speaker 1: own business, you know, not even caring that somebody was
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Speaker 1: dumped across the street from this high end train station.
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Speaker 1: You know, Doctor Angie you deal with female patients all
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Speaker 1: the time. What are we anyway? I feel like, why
17:53
Speaker 1: is it always women which is treated like trash just
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Speaker 1: put out in a shopping cart and we left out
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Speaker 1: there to decompose. But it is going on. This is
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Speaker 1: a serial killer. There's no telling how many women he's
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Speaker 1: done this too across the country. Well, I think it speaks, Nancy.
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Speaker 1: I think it speaks to women, and unfortunately, women are
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Speaker 1: typically the vulnerable ones. But I think it speaks to
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Speaker 1: women wanting someone to share their lives with and wanting
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Speaker 1: someone to make them feel good. And they literally think,
18:30
Speaker 1: you know, Nancy, everyone I talked to and here only
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Speaker 1: talks about meeting people on dating apps. They literally all
18:37
Speaker 1: of my patients tell me that's the that is the
18:40
Speaker 1: way people are meeting folks now. And I'm quite I'm
18:43
Speaker 1: sure that this man was quite good at making these
18:46
Speaker 1: women feel good about themselves and that's why they and
18:50
Speaker 1: that's why he was able to lure them to this place. Right. Well,
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Speaker 1: are you saying that he was charming? I bet you
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Speaker 1: he is charming. I'm sure he didn't tell them that
19:00
Speaker 1: he was going to bang them over the head with
19:02
Speaker 1: a sledge hammer. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Take a
19:18
Speaker 1: listen again to our Friendshierra Fox at Fox five in DC.
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Speaker 1: Our cut seven, Fairfax County Police Chief Heavin Davis says,
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Speaker 1: the shopping cart killer with me his victims on dating sites,
19:30
Speaker 1: then motels before killing them, then taking their remains to
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Speaker 1: an undisclosed location and a shopping cart. For example, two
19:38
Speaker 1: days ago, Fairfax County Police found human remains in a
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Speaker 1: container near a shopping car in this isolated wooded area
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Speaker 1: here in Alexandria, Virginia along Britain Highway. He prays on
19:50
Speaker 1: the week, he prays on the vulnerable, and he does
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Speaker 1: unspeakable things with his victim right along the highway, along
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Speaker 1: the Richmond Highway. And again, this guy we believe is
20:06
Speaker 1: connected to thirty five other jurisdictions. How many women has
20:13
Speaker 1: he killed? Take a listen to our cut six w
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Speaker 1: j LA. Sadly, these remains were not alone in the container.
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Speaker 1: The remains of another unknown identified individual were discovered. One
20:29
Speaker 1: they're pretty sure as Brown's. The other they don't know.
20:32
Speaker 1: But ass are there even more victims? We're only going
20:35
Speaker 1: back a couple two or three months. That's it, and
20:38
Speaker 1: that's what worries us. You know he didn't suddenly turn
20:42
Speaker 1: into who he is three months ago. And the Fairfax
20:45
Speaker 1: Police at this point say that they believe that the
20:48
Speaker 1: mystery victim is from this area, but they don't know
20:51
Speaker 1: who it is. They would like the public's health, and
20:53
Speaker 1: that's a whole another can of ORMs. Brahmin Blaine joining
20:56
Speaker 1: me at Jet Professor University, Texas School of Law, prosecute
21:00
Speaker 1: getting a Jane Joe murder man. That's hard to do, explain.
21:05
Speaker 1: If they're not able to identify this person, then it's
21:10
Speaker 1: very difficult for them to quick evidence about what may
21:13
Speaker 1: have happened before the crime. And you asked, Nancy, how
21:16
Speaker 1: many women has this shopping cart killer killed? I would
21:20
Speaker 1: ask about all of the living victims that when he
21:24
Speaker 1: was still honing his techniques, people he tried to charm online,
21:28
Speaker 1: perhaps people he may be met up with briefly. I
21:33
Speaker 1: think that when she's Kevin Davis is giving those press conference,
21:36
Speaker 1: they're really want of these living victims to come forward
21:39
Speaker 1: and help gather some of that evidence that may help
21:42
Speaker 1: us figure out who that team going. You know, she's
21:45
Speaker 1: got a really good point, Lisa Daddio, I guarantee you
21:50
Speaker 1: his first murder the serial killer was not his first
21:54
Speaker 1: time at the Rodeo. I guarantee you he had either
21:57
Speaker 1: raped or kidnapped or assaulted in some way a victim
22:01
Speaker 1: who managed to live to tell the tale. Oh absolutely,
22:05
Speaker 1: And you know to everyone and especially Chief Davis's, you know,
22:09
Speaker 1: like what he's really trying to do is get the
22:12
Speaker 1: word out there to other women who have had contact
22:15
Speaker 1: with him prior to him, you know, murdering, murdering his
22:19
Speaker 1: first victim, which we know there are others, right, you
22:22
Speaker 1: know what you're reminding me of right now, Lisa Daddy, Oh,
22:24
Speaker 1: what's up? A guy I prosecuted and the victim, the
22:29
Speaker 1: first victim, well she wasn't the first, but she was
22:33
Speaker 1: the only one that we could actually prove this guy
22:37
Speaker 1: I believe was a serial killer. And I got to digging.
22:44
Speaker 1: We never did identify the Jane Doe. Found out this
22:49
Speaker 1: guy who we thought was the killer had a girlfriend
22:54
Speaker 1: that had kicked him out. So I found the girlfriend.
23:02
Speaker 1: She looked almost identical to the reconstruction sketch we did
23:08
Speaker 1: of the Jane Doe. That's not all I forgot how
23:13
Speaker 1: I did it now, but I got some information that
23:18
Speaker 1: I needed to go to the folder County Women's jail. No, no, no,
23:22
Speaker 1: it was in a neighboring county, I think Gwinnette and
23:24
Speaker 1: I went up there and I found this woman. She
23:28
Speaker 1: had been raped by the purp and he tried to
23:33
Speaker 1: strangle her but he didn't succeed. So how valuable is that?
23:42
Speaker 1: Because the Jane Doe had been raped and strangled, the
23:46
Speaker 1: girlfriend had been strangled and lived. It's just amazing the psychopathy,
23:53
Speaker 1: the repetition of the same scenario over and over. There's
23:58
Speaker 1: gotta be a psychiatric name for that, doctor Angel Arnold,
24:02
Speaker 1: where you keep doing the same thing over and over
24:05
Speaker 1: and over. When a criminal does that for some type
24:09
Speaker 1: of internal excitement, I guess her. Hey, I don't really
24:14
Speaker 1: I don't really know if there's a name for that,
24:17
Speaker 1: but I do believe there's a name for the person
24:19
Speaker 1: who does it. And he's a sociopath. Well, I know,
24:23
Speaker 1: a sociopath can be a lot of people. I'm talking
24:27
Speaker 1: about someone. Okay, here's a good example. Alexis rreschoke you
24:32
Speaker 1: and I covered BTK buying torture killed Dennis Rader for
24:36
Speaker 1: a long time serial killer. And I believe who's a dogcatcher?
24:42
Speaker 1: I mean, right there, I don't like him, but I
24:44
Speaker 1: believe he was a peeping tom and would peep on
24:48
Speaker 1: women on his dogcatching route. And then he graduated to
24:54
Speaker 1: fulfilling his twisted fantasy and started murdering women and then
25:02
Speaker 1: dressing them up post mortem along the lines of Charles Manson,
25:07
Speaker 1: how he would do that to a lot of his victims.
25:10
Speaker 1: Long story short, doing the same thing over and over
25:14
Speaker 1: and over. We see, that's what's happening here, and it's
25:17
Speaker 1: a big clue as to the identity of the Purp
25:20
Speaker 1: and Nancy. So the woman who was unidentified, she was
25:25
Speaker 1: found with Cheyenne Brown. So these two women, their bodies
25:28
Speaker 1: were found next to the charge shopping cart in a
25:30
Speaker 1: container in the woods. This woman had actually been staying
25:35
Speaker 1: in the hotel. She went missing months before Cheyenne went missing.
25:41
Speaker 1: Her family reported her missing, so she was staying in
25:43
Speaker 1: the hotel. So this hotel is sort of at the
25:47
Speaker 1: center of it all. Are you talking about the Moon Hotel? Yes,
25:50
Speaker 1: the Moon Moon in Gosh. You know, when you look
25:53
Speaker 1: at it, it looks so quaint, but it's the center
25:57
Speaker 1: of more than one of the serial killer's victim Take
26:00
Speaker 1: a listen now to our cut nine from Fox five,
26:03
Speaker 1: in the same container where Brown's remains were found police day,
26:07
Speaker 1: another person's remains were also inside. That individual has not
26:11
Speaker 1: yet been identified. This investigation all started when two other
26:15
Speaker 1: bodies were found in an open line Harrisonburg, Virginia, two women,
26:20
Speaker 1: fifty four year old Aleen Redman and thirty nine year
26:23
Speaker 1: old to Meeta Smith. The Harrisonburg police chief, Kelly Warner,
26:27
Speaker 1: joined Fairfax County's police department at a news conference today.
26:32
Speaker 1: Both women were discovered within a short distance of each
26:35
Speaker 1: other dead, although their deaths took place at two separate times.
26:41
Speaker 1: Justice will prevail and the offender will be held accountable
26:48
Speaker 1: for what he did. And we haven't ruled out there.
26:51
Speaker 1: I'll use the plural term. Maybe what they did seeing
26:56
Speaker 1: the same mmodus operandi method of operation of rid of
27:00
Speaker 1: the bodies. So he liked the one container where he
27:05
Speaker 1: dumped a body near the Moon Inn, so he used
27:09
Speaker 1: it again. So the discovery of these two bodies must
27:12
Speaker 1: have been a horrible, horrible scene. One body had been
27:16
Speaker 1: there for some time. Take a lista nat to art
27:19
Speaker 1: cut eleven Fox five. In December, human remains were found
27:24
Speaker 1: in a plastic container near a shopping car in an
27:26
Speaker 1: isolated wooded area along Richmond Highway and Alexandria, Virginia. Fairfax
27:32
Speaker 1: County Police are now waiting for the DNA confirmation of
27:35
Speaker 1: those two deaths. I checked in with the Medical Examiner's
27:38
Speaker 1: office today and they say both cases are still pending. However,
27:42
Speaker 1: detectives believe one victim is twenty nine year old Cheyenne
27:46
Speaker 1: Brown as Southeast DC after her family recognized the tattoo
27:50
Speaker 1: of her name. The fourth victim could be a woman
27:52
Speaker 1: from California, Stephanie Harrison. They are missing persons signs surrounding
27:57
Speaker 1: the Moon and Hotel, where her sister tells Fox five
28:00
Speaker 1: she was staying last August. The families involved or heartbroken
28:05
Speaker 1: that there could be more victims out there all of
28:07
Speaker 1: a sudden. Here and four people just all of a sudden,
28:09
Speaker 1: and then how many more are they're going to be?
28:12
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, in a way, I kind of
28:13
Speaker 1: feel like there has to be more too, because you
28:14
Speaker 1: don't just wake up one day and start doing that.
28:17
Speaker 1: So true, so true, And let me understand this. Alexis
28:21
Speaker 1: terres Chuck. One victim had been staying there, the victim
28:23
Speaker 1: for California. Back in August, they were missing person's missing
28:29
Speaker 1: person flyers up. But yeah, this container was not that
28:32
Speaker 1: far away. It wasn't and they had not I couldn't
28:36
Speaker 1: find her. They didn't and it wasn't. And then after
28:40
Speaker 1: Cheyenne went missing, that's when they started searching the area
28:44
Speaker 1: because they had done some police work to figure out
28:46
Speaker 1: where her cell phone was and where she was staying,
28:49
Speaker 1: things like that, and that's where they tried to doounce them.
28:51
Speaker 1: They had the cadaver dogs and then they went to
28:54
Speaker 1: this area. But yeah, there was a literally a missing
28:57
Speaker 1: person's poster for this woman just right on the road
29:00
Speaker 1: near the hotel. Prime Stories with Nancy Grace. Take a
29:16
Speaker 1: listen to our cut twelve jess Arnold, WUSA nine. Fairfax
29:20
Speaker 1: County police say it was here right near the Moon
29:22
Speaker 1: and at Alexandria, and they found the body of a
29:24
Speaker 1: woman who they believe is twenty nine year old Cheyenne Brown.
29:27
Speaker 1: She's one of four alleged victims of the so called
29:29
Speaker 1: shopping cart killer who start hoping to confirm her identity
29:32
Speaker 1: through DNA by the end of this week, but her
29:34
Speaker 1: mom says she already knows it's her from her tattoo.
29:37
Speaker 1: This picture of twenty nine year old Cheyenne Brown and
29:39
Speaker 1: her seven year old son, Juan, maybe one of the
29:42
Speaker 1: last they shared. His grandmother says, he's struggling to understand
29:46
Speaker 1: his mom is in heaven now, but he still picks
29:48
Speaker 1: up the phone and he still tries the car, so
29:52
Speaker 1: I know he doesn't really understand. Nicandra Brown says, on
29:55
Speaker 1: September thirtieth, Cheyenne got on a metro bus in DC
29:59
Speaker 1: and disappeared in She was five months pregnant at the time,
30:03
Speaker 1: calling you know, hospitals, checking for like Jane does or
30:06
Speaker 1: don't identify women, and you know, checking the Morgan I
30:10
Speaker 1: was a wreck. In early December, Fairfax County Police found
30:13
Speaker 1: what they believe is Cheyenne's body. They suspect she's one
30:16
Speaker 1: of at least four alleged victims of the shopping card killer.
30:20
Speaker 1: Take a listen to these names. Tanita Smith thirty nine,
30:24
Speaker 1: Alene Redman fifty four. That's a big age difference and
30:30
Speaker 1: the women that he's picking. So I think whoever said
30:33
Speaker 1: it earlier, you're right, he's not picking a certain age
30:37
Speaker 1: or a certain type. Cheyenne Brown twenty nine, with the
30:41
Speaker 1: little boy, the son who's still trying to call her
30:43
Speaker 1: on her cell phone. Stephanie Harrison forty eight, Sonja Champ
30:51
Speaker 1: forty was just found was discovered in September, but just
30:56
Speaker 1: recently connected to the shopping card killer. It goes on
31:01
Speaker 1: and on. They couldn't seem to catch him. Take a
31:05
Speaker 1: listen to our cut five SAM four w j LA
31:09
Speaker 1: police and Harrisonburg found the bodies of fifty four year
31:12
Speaker 1: old Eleene Elizabeth Redman of Harrisonburg and thirty nine year
31:15
Speaker 1: old Tonita Lurice Smith of Charlottesville November twenty third, in
31:19
Speaker 1: a vacant lot near a motel and Harrisonburg not far apart.
31:23
Speaker 1: A Metropolitan PTPD contacted the Harrisonburg Major Crimes Division after
31:30
Speaker 1: Harrisonburg police said they saw him on surveillance with a
31:33
Speaker 1: shopping cart. They arrested Robinson. DC police suspected a link
31:37
Speaker 1: to Cheyenne Brown of Northeast DC, who disappeared September thirtieth.
31:41
Speaker 1: Using digital GPS, police followed Brown and Robinson from the
31:45
Speaker 1: Minnesota Avenue Metro station in DC to the Huntington Metro
31:48
Speaker 1: station in Virginia. Fairfax police searched near the moon In
31:52
Speaker 1: motel and found a shopping cart next to it a
31:55
Speaker 1: big plastic trash container, and they believe Brown's remains were inside.
32:00
Speaker 1: Straight to you, Alexis Terres Schuck, So surveillance video of
32:04
Speaker 1: a man pushing a shopping cart is what the case
32:07
Speaker 1: it is. They finally they finally got it. They were
32:09
Speaker 1: using I mean, just regular police investigation. They find the
32:14
Speaker 1: victim's cell phone, they see where they had been, where
32:17
Speaker 1: they went. Now they realized she was at this motel.
32:20
Speaker 1: So then they try to find surveillance video around there
32:22
Speaker 1: or around where the other bodies were found, and they
32:25
Speaker 1: see him on video. And here's the thing we talked about.
32:29
Speaker 1: So you're saying he has been doing you know, these
32:32
Speaker 1: are at least five that we know of. This isn't new.
32:36
Speaker 1: But what if he had never been caught. Well, amazingly,
32:40
Speaker 1: this guy does not have a criminal record. But that
32:43
Speaker 1: is not uncommon. I mean the reality. How many times
32:48
Speaker 1: does a rapist or sex assault or assault before he's caught.
32:54
Speaker 1: It's a staggering number. Some say between twelve, others say
32:59
Speaker 1: seventy times that they molest or assault before they're ever caught.
33:06
Speaker 1: In the vast majority of women do not report six assaults. Why,
33:13
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I believe in their mind they feel
33:17
Speaker 1: somehow responsible for the attack on themselves. Take a listen
33:21
Speaker 1: our cut ten Fox five. Fairfax County police want to
33:25
Speaker 1: figure out how many times the shopping card killer stayed
33:28
Speaker 1: here at the Mooned Hotel, to better figure out a
33:31
Speaker 1: timeline of when these unfortunately events unfolded, and to see
33:35
Speaker 1: if there are any more potential victims out there. You
33:38
Speaker 1: may remember that to tect this day, he would meet
33:41
Speaker 1: his victims on data apps then locations like this before
33:45
Speaker 1: doing unspeakable things to them. Today, I was able to
33:48
Speaker 1: speak with the daughter of one of the victims, who
33:51
Speaker 1: says she's still processing all of this all in the road.
33:54
Speaker 1: Did that happen like it on TV? And I mean
33:58
Speaker 1: it really is like exactly what goes on in the
34:01
Speaker 1: shows right now, like everything that is happening, and it's
34:06
Speaker 1: kind of weird. Her mother is fifty four year old
34:10
Speaker 1: Beth Redman. Her remains were found in a vacant law
34:13
Speaker 1: and Harrison burd along with thirty nine year old to
34:16
Speaker 1: meet a little Reese right now. Anthony Robinson is behind
34:19
Speaker 1: bars and charged with two counts of first degree murder
34:22
Speaker 1: and disposing the bodies of those two women. You were
34:26
Speaker 1: just hearing the daughter of one of the murdered victims. Now,
34:30
Speaker 1: take a listen to the mother of one of the
34:33
Speaker 1: murdered victims, our friends at WUSA nine, our cut thirteen.
34:37
Speaker 1: I don't even know what words. It's just terrible. Police
34:41
Speaker 1: have arrested thirty five year old Anthony Robinson for the murders.
34:44
Speaker 1: When Ncandra's cousin saw his picture, she says he recognized
34:47
Speaker 1: him as a man Cheyenne had brought to their house before.
34:50
Speaker 1: And I'm so angry, Like I don't even have tears anymore.
34:55
Speaker 1: I'm just like, why would you do this to my daughter?
34:57
Speaker 1: She didn't deserve that, you know. She was just so
35:00
Speaker 1: full of life, and so is her son, Elias, the
35:02
Speaker 1: same heart like as mom is, like she's still here
35:08
Speaker 1: with us, She's still here with us through him. And
35:14
Speaker 1: we hear police begging now that we have this guy's
35:19
Speaker 1: photo for women who have had any contact with him
35:24
Speaker 1: to speak out. Take a listen to w j L
35:27
Speaker 1: A cut fourteen and breaking right now seven. Use is
35:31
Speaker 1: on your side with the latest on a body found
35:33
Speaker 1: in DC that investigators believe could be the fifth victim
35:36
Speaker 1: of the so called shopping cart killer. Tonight, they have
35:39
Speaker 1: released the identity of that victim. Investigators say the victim
35:43
Speaker 1: is Sonja Champ. Her body was found in a shopping
35:46
Speaker 1: cart near Union Station back in September. Fairfax Police say
35:49
Speaker 1: they just found out about her death, which is being
35:52
Speaker 1: investigated by DC police. As that continues, Fairfax investigators have
35:57
Speaker 1: confirmed the identity of two women They believe we're killed
35:59
Speaker 1: by thirty five year old Anthony Robinson, and now they're
36:02
Speaker 1: hoping any potential survivors will come forward and help them
36:05
Speaker 1: learn more about Robinson, in particular missing females who may
36:12
Speaker 1: fit the victimology profile of our four victims. What we
36:16
Speaker 1: really need is information about previous contexts. Our investigators believe
36:23
Speaker 1: Robinson used dating apps like Plenty of Fish and tagged
36:26
Speaker 1: to meet as victims. Is currently in jail charged in
36:29
Speaker 1: the deaths of two women in Harrison Burke gu Alexis
36:33
Speaker 1: Terrestia at crime online dot Com investigative reporter. Why are
36:37
Speaker 1: we hearing the number thirty five as to how many
36:40
Speaker 1: other jurisdictions may be involved? Well, he is originally from
36:45
Speaker 1: New York. Most these victims were found in Virginia and Washington, DC,
36:48
Speaker 1: and police all around the area are connecting that perhaps
36:52
Speaker 1: there was a similar a missing person or a body
36:55
Speaker 1: FOUK where they have not identified who the killer is
36:58
Speaker 1: and they think this could be related. So there are
37:01
Speaker 1: so many unsolved murders and they're all looking all these jurisdictions. Now,
37:06
Speaker 1: they're all talking to each other and they're realizing that
37:08
Speaker 1: maybe there is a connection. He could have gone anywhere
37:11
Speaker 1: up and down meat or further, but this is where
37:14
Speaker 1: they're all. They seem to have unsolved murders that they're
37:17
Speaker 1: going to try to see if this is connected. So
37:19
Speaker 1: you're telling me that he's being held right now in Virginia, Yes,
37:24
Speaker 1: for these So far, he's been charged with murders of
37:26
Speaker 1: two women right now. There are three others that are
37:29
Speaker 1: definitely known, so he's awaiting charges for or are they
37:33
Speaker 1: also in Virginia? Two are? The fifth is in Washington, DC? Okay,
37:39
Speaker 1: you know what that tells me, Bromin Blake. Is there
37:44
Speaker 1: any chance? Well, with these two jurisdictions, there's not. There's
37:50
Speaker 1: no chance this guy's going to get the death penalty,
37:52
Speaker 1: no matter how many women he tortured and murdered and
37:58
Speaker 1: left their bodies in a shopping cart. Is neither of
38:00
Speaker 1: those jurisdictions have the DPA I think you make a
38:04
Speaker 1: good point, and I have to thank you for highlighting
38:07
Speaker 1: this story on your show, because when we hear details
38:10
Speaker 1: like this and the fact that this person might not
38:14
Speaker 1: have certain punishments, we want to turn away, but as women,
38:18
Speaker 1: we really can't. And in the Textas Advocacy Project, We've
38:22
Speaker 1: been doing free legal services for domestic violence ductual thought
38:25
Speaker 1: Stocking for forty years, and I've been working in dating
38:28
Speaker 1: violence for sixteen years. And this can happen to anyone.
38:33
Speaker 1: You heard about these victims. They're all ages, they're different races.
38:37
Speaker 1: What do they have in common? I'm sure doctor Jeli
38:40
Speaker 1: would agree with me. They're hopeful people. And these chief Davis,
38:45
Speaker 1: chief Warm they need more people to come forward, and
38:48
Speaker 1: we believe survivors if others were hurt. I hope they
38:50
Speaker 1: do come forward so this person can be punished appropriately.
38:54
Speaker 1: Dodger and Arnold, give me your analysis, well said. The
38:59
Speaker 1: sad thing is the reason people don't come forward is
39:02
Speaker 1: because oftentimes when something bad does happen to them and
39:07
Speaker 1: they've done on a dating site, they are so mortified
39:10
Speaker 1: and embarrassed of what happened to them, and they and
39:14
Speaker 1: so they come to somebody like me and they talk
39:16
Speaker 1: to me about it, but they don't want to go
39:18
Speaker 1: forward and let everybody know what they were doing, because
39:22
Speaker 1: they do reach out on dating sites because that is
39:26
Speaker 1: what people do now to find love in their life,
39:30
Speaker 1: so that you know, they're initially very vulnerable from that standpoint.
39:34
Speaker 1: But when it doesn't work out that people don't go
39:36
Speaker 1: shouting it from the rooftops because, as you said, Nancy,
39:39
Speaker 1: for some people it does work out. So then the
39:42
Speaker 1: victim feels like, well, why does this not happen to me?
39:45
Speaker 1: And why am I a victim? And what was wrong
39:47
Speaker 1: with me that this chose this man chose me to
39:50
Speaker 1: be a victim. So people don't speak out. I'm very
39:54
Speaker 1: curious about the other jurisdictions where we believe he has
39:57
Speaker 1: murdered other women. To Lisa Daddy, what's your analysis, We've
40:01
Speaker 1: got to get the word out there. I think there's
40:03
Speaker 1: other victims outside of DC Washington area, in Virginia and
40:09
Speaker 1: especially with connections back up into New York. We have
40:12
Speaker 1: to look at all those missing person reports and those
40:16
Speaker 1: unknown gene does to you, Doctor Michelle Dupree weigh in,
40:20
Speaker 1: I think they're right. You know, there are many reasons
40:22
Speaker 1: that women don't report sexual assault, and I think that
40:25
Speaker 1: the stigma of that is something that we also need
40:28
Speaker 1: to work on, because you know, it is not their fault,
40:31
Speaker 1: and so many times they don't believe that. They believe
40:34
Speaker 1: that they did something to encourage it, or to leave
40:37
Speaker 1: them on or something like that. But as we all know,
40:40
Speaker 1: you know, Noah's no you know, Alexa stress check these victims.
40:46
Speaker 1: As our guests are pointing out, across all barriers, age races,
40:52
Speaker 1: socio economic level, it seems as if no one is
40:57
Speaker 1: safe from this guy. How are we going to figure
41:01
Speaker 1: out without a DNA comparison, what other victims he's murdered.
41:06
Speaker 1: I think it's going to have to be tracked through
41:08
Speaker 1: the dating service, and then other people are going to
41:11
Speaker 1: recognize him when they see his name, they see it safe.
41:13
Speaker 1: They might you know, they might have just chatted with
41:15
Speaker 1: him for a few minutes on this skating app and thought, oh,
41:18
Speaker 1: he wasn't for me, and now they realized who it was.
41:21
Speaker 1: We don't even know if he used his real name
41:22
Speaker 1: on this dating app. That's something you know that they
41:25
Speaker 1: could have been done. So he might have been telling
41:27
Speaker 1: other people or when he went on other dates, he
41:29
Speaker 1: could have been using a different name, so they're going
41:31
Speaker 1: to have to really put it out there so that
41:33
Speaker 1: people know and recognize this. I think one way to
41:36
Speaker 1: do it is through cell phone data. Where he has been,
41:41
Speaker 1: wherever he's been going back for years. That's where I
41:45
Speaker 1: would look for unsolved amasides and missing people. Tip line
41:49
Speaker 1: seven h three two four six seven eight hundred repeat
41:53
Speaker 1: seven zero three two four six seven eight hundred. Look
41:59
Speaker 1: at Anthony Robinson. Did you date him? Did you talk
42:05
Speaker 1: to him online? Did your sister date him? Do you
42:08
Speaker 1: have a friend or a relative missing seven o three
42:13
Speaker 1: two four to six seven eight hundred. Nancy Grace Crime
42:16
Speaker 1: Story signing off Goodbye friend,