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Parenting Without Yelling: Master of the Moment (Not Parent of the Year) · The Parent Tap

0:00
SPEAKER_00: If you are a parent who has ever felt your blood pressure spike when your kid rolls their eyes at a request to brush their teeth, this episode is for you.
0:07
SPEAKER_00: Today's guest is a mom of four daughters, a master certified life coach, and the creator of a best-selling system called the MicroStep Method.
0:14
SPEAKER_00: And here's the surprising part.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: She's going to convince you that you don't need to be the parent of the year at all.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: You just need to be the master of the moment.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: Mary Wilcox Smith is here to end the standoffs, stop the sass, and just show you that the small tiny actions, not dramatic overhauls, are what actually builds connected, confident, emotionally strong kids.
0:34
SPEAKER_00: So you're a mom of four daughters, and you said that raising them taught you more about leadership than any boardroom ever could.
0:41
SPEAKER_00: So take us back to the moment.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: Take us back to the moment you realized your own parenting approach wasn't working.
0:46
SPEAKER_00: Um and what was the pile on moment that broke you?
0:48
SPEAKER_00: And what did you try before you found your way out?
0:51
SPEAKER_02: That's interesting.
0:52
SPEAKER_02: Um the moment, well, I mean, I have my classic moment, but then I've got some funny moments where it was pretty clear I wasn't doing the right thing.
0:59
SPEAKER_00: Give us all of them.
1:00
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, so I had four daughters.
1:03
SPEAKER_02: I had four daughters under born within five years.
1:06
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
1:06
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, which was very close together.
1:08
SPEAKER_02: And uh, my second one had been born with medical issues.
1:11
SPEAKER_02: The first two were born in Argentina because we were living there.
1:13
SPEAKER_02: And then the second one was born with these medical issues, and um, they were pretty significant.
1:18
SPEAKER_02: And she ended up having to be tube fed for a while because she had bad lungs.
1:21
SPEAKER_02: And so then we suddenly, who knows how, but we suddenly had four daughters, and um her medical issues were carried on.
1:28
SPEAKER_02: It wasn't like they were over after a year or something.
1:30
SPEAKER_02: And so she had a tube.
1:31
SPEAKER_02: And we would finally figure it out.
1:33
SPEAKER_02: I would take all this food and I would blend it because they just wanted me to feed cans, and I was like, we gotta feed her real food.
1:38
SPEAKER_02: She's getting two years old.
1:40
SPEAKER_02: And so we'd blend this food and this liquidizer, and you'd have to sit with her for like 30 to 40 minutes, wait for the food to go into her stomach.
1:47
SPEAKER_02: Like it's literally a tube for any some of your audience will know, some will.
1:50
SPEAKER_02: And uh and then she'd vomit it all up.
1:52
SPEAKER_02: Oh, it would be this awful moment because you're trying to get her to gain weight and it would be awful.
1:58
SPEAKER_02: So my little kids would all go scurrying and get things and get the claws and we'd clean her up.
2:02
SPEAKER_02: And uh and so what we decided finally, because you're all not trying to watch TV, we decided we'd let her watch silly things, cartoons, while we were feeding her, because it was a way to sort of keep her calm, keep the food down.
2:14
SPEAKER_02: So when she was four, because it's a it was a long story, but when she was four or end of four, she was getting she was still being tube fed, maybe not all the time, but she was still being almost consistently tube fed.
2:25
SPEAKER_02: And someone was coming to go through whether we would get the services or not that we needed, because you're moving into a new level of services.
2:31
SPEAKER_02: And only late, only time the lady could come was at five o'clock.
2:34
SPEAKER_02: So I was finally like, great, come at five.
2:36
SPEAKER_02: I mean what it's like at five with little kids, it's like witching hour, right?
2:40
SPEAKER_02: The lady comes and uh she walks in, she's got this like tight bun, stiff gray suit, glasses, and uh, she sets all her papers and pencils up.
2:47
SPEAKER_02: And it's five o'clock, so it's normally when I feed Catalina, so I'm like, I gotta stick to the schedule because I'm that type of person, which got me in trouble in parenting.
2:54
SPEAKER_02: But so I got hoist her up onto the island and I plug in this tube.
2:58
SPEAKER_02: It goes into a little thing in her stomach, a little button, and I prepare to feed her.
3:01
SPEAKER_02: And Catalina looks at me with these big brown eyes and she's like, video?
3:05
SPEAKER_02: And I said, Oh no, we can't watch a video today.
3:07
SPEAKER_02: This nice lady's here to talk to us.
3:09
SPEAKER_01: And no kidding.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: She goes, like this.
3:12
SPEAKER_01: No video.
3:13
SPEAKER_01: Fu.
3:14
SPEAKER_01: But she didn't say fudge.
3:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
3:17
SPEAKER_02: She swore in front of this like government county official.
3:21
SPEAKER_02: And I thought, she honestly did.
3:24
SPEAKER_02: So clearly, every time she'd been throwing up, because all my kids were so little, I was swearing, thinking that no one would ever remember because they're all so little before I knew.
3:32
SPEAKER_02: And uh, but it sort of that wasn't the moment that I turned to parent coaching and I really realized I'd messed up.
3:38
SPEAKER_02: But it was the moment I realized that we are so, so critical.
3:42
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I know we're critical.
3:44
SPEAKER_02: I know they love them, and I know from the minute they're born they're not like other animals they need us.
3:48
SPEAKER_02: But the fact that she couldn't didn't only swear, but she had like the head shake and the intonation.
3:55
SPEAKER_02: It was so she had just absorbed me.
3:58
SPEAKER_02: And I thought, that's where it's hard.
4:00
SPEAKER_02: So clearly I stopped swearing.
4:02
SPEAKER_02: But and thankfully, oh, I didn't give the end of the story.
4:04
SPEAKER_02: The end of the story is that I was like, oh my God, they go to the services.
4:07
SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm doomed.
4:08
SPEAKER_02: And this lady, this like tight bun lady, she threw her head back and laughed.
4:13
SPEAKER_02: And so then we laughed and we all laughed, and she was like, This kind of stuff happens.
4:17
SPEAKER_02: She didn't get speech services.
4:19
SPEAKER_02: But, anyways, so I kind of learned, I just in that moment was like, they really do take in everything.
4:26
SPEAKER_02: So you can you you do the best you can.
4:29
SPEAKER_02: And then it was later, really, that I realized truly there the lessons that you think you're teaching aren't always the one you're teaching.
4:36
SPEAKER_02: And that that really led me because I went through some really dark years, which may have been the pitfall thing, the whatever you talked about second, where I realized I had to get into helping parents.
4:46
SPEAKER_02: But I kind of enjoy that story because it's it is good.
4:50
SPEAKER_02: It shows that we all mess up.
4:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
4:53
SPEAKER_00: You're you're very uh yeah, vulnerable and authentic with that story.
4:57
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you sharing that.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: My daughter says GD a lot, like, goddamn.
5:01
SPEAKER_00: You know, and I'll I'll say that occasionally.
5:03
SPEAKER_00: It reminds me of, yeah, in Mrs.
5:04
SPEAKER_00: Doubtfire when Lydia says it at the table, and she's like, any other choice words for a five-year-old, Daniel?
5:10
SPEAKER_00: And then like, I cause because I I swear my daughter will say that sometimes too when she's five, and I'm like, oh shoot, like I need to really watch my words and and not not not say that kind of thing because it's easy to get frazzled.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: This five-year-old picks it up because she does.
5:23
SPEAKER_02: They sort of and they also sense that it that that word has that it's almost more important than some of the other words that come out of your mouth.
5:30
SPEAKER_02: Like they get all of it.
5:32
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I'll say to clients, and this is I I don't, I'm not always rude, but I'm just just I'll say it's almost as though we're like naked.
5:38
SPEAKER_02: I mean, other than the naked and the F bomb.
5:40
SPEAKER_02: I'm not doing any other weird words.
5:41
SPEAKER_02: But I mean it's I sometimes feel like we're they just see us at our core.
5:46
SPEAKER_02: And it's so unfair, right?
5:48
SPEAKER_02: And people say, oh, they're manipulative.
5:49
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, they're not manipulative.
5:51
SPEAKER_02: They just know exactly what works, and they do it not because they're thinking about it, because it works.
5:56
SPEAKER_02: And it's because they just read us, and that's what you're experiencing, obviously.
6:00
SPEAKER_02: So you got really little ones.
6:01
SPEAKER_02: What got you into this?
6:02
SPEAKER_00: I know you're supposed to be asking me questions, but so what got me into this is because I I don't know, I feel a calling to be a lot of the parents' stuff is women, and a lot of it's like different, and I just wanted to be like real with people, and this is my dad perspective.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: And so I just want to talk about real life and and bring it back to me and help me be a better, better father, a better dad, all this stuff because I've gone through I guess father and dad's the same thing.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: I don't know why I say that, but I've gone through a lot of stuff where it's like sometimes I feel like I'm a great parent, and then sometimes I feel like I'm really failing my par my kids and I need to do better.
6:35
SPEAKER_02: Can I comment on something you said?
6:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
6:38
SPEAKER_02: Because you said sometimes I feel like a great parent, and sometimes I feel like a failure.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
6:44
SPEAKER_02: And uh normally, if you feel like a failure, first of all, that is parenting, right?
6:49
SPEAKER_02: And if you were perfect all the time, the kids would still need therapy because you were too perfect.
6:54
SPEAKER_02: Like you mean that the reason all these adults are in therapy is a pretty good indication that caretaking is still a work in progress.
7:02
SPEAKER_02: Right?
7:02
SPEAKER_02: It's what we learn in our childhood that comes back to bite us, right?
7:07
SPEAKER_02: And that's sort of that's really what I talk about a lot of.
7:10
SPEAKER_02: But but and come try to help people out of but when so when interestingly, I want you to think of when you think of a failure.
7:15
SPEAKER_02: Is it often when something has happened and there's like a bit of a disconnection between you and your child?
7:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's all it's often like uh so when when I don't get the expected result, like when my my daughter, so she's on the spectrum.
7:28
SPEAKER_00: So when she she throws a huge tantrum and she's out of control for an hour, like for instance, uh in that instance, I'm like, oh man, I've completely failed as a parent because like I can't control this situation, so to speak.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: And I know it's like kind of out of my control, but yeah, it's just it's kind of like the behaviors.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: When I can't control the behaviors, I feel like it's an indication of my parenting.
7:50
SPEAKER_02: And when you can't control the behaviors, it's probably harder to be close to her because she's rejecting you and then you're winding up and winding up.
7:59
SPEAKER_02: The reason I say it is because parenting is really, it's not really that we go from knowing to not knowing, it's really rupture repeat.
8:05
SPEAKER_02: It's like connection, rupture, connection, rupture, connection, rupture, which can even happen in other relationships, right?
8:12
SPEAKER_02: And uh and that's gonna happen, and that's how they learn.
8:14
SPEAKER_02: And but I I do get you.
8:16
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it it it's exhausting.
8:18
SPEAKER_02: And and having a child, my my children, as far as I know, aren't on the spectrum, but I had one with very, very serious medical issues, clearly.
8:25
SPEAKER_02: And I had four children, and that turned into behavioral issues, and it's different, I think, slightly different.
8:31
SPEAKER_02: I do work with some parents of autistic kids, it's not my specialty, but I would say what happens with autistic kids is you have to be five times as patient, five times as consistent, five times as doing the right thing, right?
8:41
SPEAKER_02: Where you as a as a parent of sort of more neurotypical, it helps when you have a problem to be very consistent, but you get away with a lot more.
8:49
SPEAKER_02: And um so then when it turned behavioral problems in my house, which was just she would scream every morning, and every morning was a nightmare when my kids were tweens.
8:58
SPEAKER_02: But if I had had someone like me, despite the fact that I was paying therapists all kinds of money, someone had said, Mary, we gotta work on you, that situation could have been turned around in three weeks.
9:08
SPEAKER_02: Like this is what you need to do, this is what you need to do, this is what you need to do, right?
9:11
SPEAKER_02: Yours takes a little bit longer because there's extra stuff going on.
9:14
SPEAKER_02: But even with autistic kids, I see the same tools make a difference, right?
9:19
SPEAKER_02: Not everyone, every autistic kid's different, so I'm not generalizing for anyone out there.
9:23
SPEAKER_02: And I'm not, I want to be very clear, I am not an expert in autism.
9:27
SPEAKER_02: I just know a lot about it.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm not, yeah.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I can say clearly, I'm not either.
9:31
SPEAKER_00: And I've worked I worked with those kids as a teacher.
9:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, I've worked with my daughter the last five years.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: I still am not an expert in all that.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm learning as I go.
9:40
SPEAKER_00: But but yeah, like I it's so interesting just to kind of have this conversation because we all have these circumstances as parents and all these difficulties, these these things that we face, but it's like in a way it's all it all kind of connects to like you said, you're not generalizing.
9:54
SPEAKER_00: But I feel like even if you don't have a child on the spectrum, or even if you don't like you have four, four, four daughters, uh I think people can relate to just the the amount of stress, the amount of uh sometimes burden that we carry, like all the stuff that we have to go through as parents.
10:09
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's all relatable in a way.
10:12
SPEAKER_00: And so, like I I think of it like when I have two kids right now, I'm like, I can't imagine having four, but I mean, like that close an age and all that.
10:18
SPEAKER_00: And so it kind of for me, it helps me put it in perspective of like, okay, I can handle this, I can do this because people have done my grandma had like seven kids when she at like 19 to 20, 21, like whatever.
10:30
SPEAKER_00: Like she started having kids at 19.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: So it's just like I think of I think back to then and I'm like, man, if they can do it with all the stuff that I have all the tools, I have all the experts on the show now.
10:39
SPEAKER_00: Like, there's no there's no excuses anymore.
10:42
SPEAKER_00: Like, just stop being stop being a bad parent, be more patient.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: I used like I said, I I think I I've guilt myself a lot because I used to work with special education kids back in my twenties and I had more patience.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: Like I was very, very patient.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, some of the and now I just feel like I'm I'm losing it with my own kids.
10:59
SPEAKER_00: Like sometimes they don't have why is that?
11:01
SPEAKER_02: It's not just because you're I'm older.
11:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you can it a piece of it, but what's the other piece?
11:08
SPEAKER_02: It's my own kids, I think.
11:09
SPEAKER_02: It's your own kid, and you care so and you're a little nervous.
11:13
SPEAKER_02: You've got this five-year-old.
11:15
SPEAKER_02: I don't know how much she's on the spectrum or not.
11:16
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it seems like everyone's on the spectrum these days, right?
11:18
SPEAKER_02: But clearly she's on a little bit where they've been willing to call it that.
11:22
unknown: Yeah.
11:23
SPEAKER_02: And you're a little worried for her.
11:25
SPEAKER_02: It's not a nice world to grow up in.
11:27
SPEAKER_02: Like, so the fear, and that's what I always talk about.
11:29
SPEAKER_02: The reason when we're it, if I was taking care of your child, she's having a fit, I'd be like, Yeah, I'll just sit here and let her have a break.
11:36
SPEAKER_02: I won't worry.
11:36
SPEAKER_02: But for you, your heart's going 110.
11:38
SPEAKER_02: You're thinking, what if I don't ever calm her down?
11:40
SPEAKER_02: What if she goes up like this?
11:41
SPEAKER_02: What if she's doing this since she's 21?
11:42
SPEAKER_02: She's never gonna get into a school, right?
11:44
SPEAKER_02: So you're that's what happens to us, which is why it's so hard.
11:48
SPEAKER_02: It is, it is.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: I think about that.
11:49
SPEAKER_00: I had a guest on earlier and I alluded to this, but she talked about she's on this the spectrum and how she was abused because of that.
11:57
SPEAKER_00: Like her her boyfriend took advantage of her and was more she's more trusting and more naive.
12:02
SPEAKER_00: And she was, I was like, Do you think my daughter could be like that too?
12:05
SPEAKER_00: And she's like, Absolutely.
12:06
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Oh no.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: So like I have a lot of worries too that are like not even happening now, obviously at five years old, but when fit when she's 15, when she's 20, whatever, and I'm just like, oh my god.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, like I I do micro worry.
12:18
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I said micro-worry.
12:20
SPEAKER_00: I say micro worry because micro step is what I'm gonna talk about next.
12:23
SPEAKER_00: But I do worry about every single thing.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: I don't even think I can say micro worry because you've probably trademarked micro step.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: So like trademark step, but in but I wanted to get into okay, so the micro step method, what is it?
12:37
SPEAKER_00: Break it down for us in in kind of like layman's terms.
12:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, it's interesting.
12:41
SPEAKER_02: The way I got into it was um so I have these four girls, tween dumb.
12:46
SPEAKER_02: I mean, and from the outside, like we practically look like a model family.
12:49
SPEAKER_02: I I mean I'm exaggerating, but I mean the kids are good kids.
12:52
SPEAKER_02: They do well in school.
12:53
SPEAKER_02: They were three of them went on to play college sports, so they were good athletes.
12:57
SPEAKER_02: They had friends, you know what I mean?
12:58
SPEAKER_02: Like it was Catalina had extra stuff going on, so that was different and complicated.
13:02
SPEAKER_02: But inside the house, it was hard.
13:05
SPEAKER_02: Like they were really, really dark years.
13:07
SPEAKER_02: It was really tough.
13:08
SPEAKER_02: And um so at a certain point, like I was saying to you, I wish one of those therapists had sort of grabbed me by the shoulders and said, Mary, what if it's not about doing more and being better?
13:18
SPEAKER_02: What if it was just about showing up a little bit differently some of the time?
13:22
SPEAKER_02: Because I even think about the the stress, the mornings when we were having a blow up every morning.
13:26
SPEAKER_02: That wasn't my daughter's fault.
13:27
SPEAKER_02: If I had empathized one morning with her about how tough it was going to school, it would be the start of turning that situation around.
13:33
SPEAKER_02: And that's what I mean by one moment.
13:35
SPEAKER_02: So then I got into it and I kind of spent a few years just doing lots and lots of reading, because it's sort of the way I am.
13:40
SPEAKER_02: I sort of feel like I have to have my own theories, which is kind of ridiculous.
13:43
SPEAKER_02: I could have just gotten a coaching degree and coached.
13:45
SPEAKER_02: But as I was doing it, I was thinking, what are the what are the habits I wish to hide have?
13:48
SPEAKER_02: What do I one of them, for example, was I wish I knew how to say no.
13:51
SPEAKER_02: I I I had my own trauma and saying no and boundaries were not very clear.
13:56
SPEAKER_02: And um, so saying no was hard.
13:58
SPEAKER_02: That's not good for children.
13:59
SPEAKER_02: Like they need to be told no.
14:00
SPEAKER_02: It's safer.
14:01
SPEAKER_02: And so I started writing these themes called micro step minutes.
14:04
SPEAKER_02: And it was a scenario, and then some of the brain science of why it would happen, and then the idea to make it happen differently to resolve or do it differently next time, and then I would explain how that connected to both resilience and our bonding connection with them.
14:19
SPEAKER_02: So then that was the sort of start of it.
14:21
SPEAKER_02: And then I wrote the book and I took like 40 of these, and people just liked them.
14:25
SPEAKER_02: People like this is just gonna help people.
14:26
SPEAKER_02: And I think I really do for a second book now.
14:29
SPEAKER_02: Part of the reason I think that book works for people, and I haven't spent enough time marketing it, but part of the reason it works is I think I was writing it as I was figuring out, as I was putting, thinking about what I had done wrong and all the science that I was like, I was learning it as I went through it, but I really immersed myself in it in a few years.
14:48
SPEAKER_02: And so it was kind of this of me getting it.
14:51
SPEAKER_02: So I think that that makes it easier for people who it's new to it.
14:54
SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
14:54
SPEAKER_02: It'll be like, oh, that makes sense.
14:56
SPEAKER_02: And then I just sandwiched it between some anecdotes.
14:58
SPEAKER_02: So then you learn about me and my kids and I make fun of my own parenting.
15:02
SPEAKER_02: And or sh I should say differently, I share some of my things.
15:06
SPEAKER_02: So then what happened is when I started coaching, I'm coaching in, I basically when people come to me, I I don't want to send them out with 20 things to do.
15:14
SPEAKER_02: I want to send them home with one thing to work on because I found that's actually the most you learn from that one thing and then it blossoms a little bit easier.
15:22
SPEAKER_02: And so then when I started speaking on it, people were like, Well, what really is a moment?
15:26
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Well, it's like the thing that the p kids remember.
15:29
SPEAKER_02: And there's actually and then I went back to my sort of notes, and I can tell you or not, but it'll take a minute or two.
15:34
SPEAKER_02: Just there there are certain moments that carry more weight than others.
15:39
SPEAKER_02: And those are the things that stick in our subconscious that we kind of carry, right?
15:43
SPEAKER_02: That we carry forward that you and I are both trying to get our kids to pick up the right ones.
15:48
SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
15:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: Could you give us like a quick example of what that could be?
15:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:53
SPEAKER_02: So an example, and it it's it won't be surprising, but the way the brain works, so really quickly, if I were to explain it, the way the brain works.
16:00
SPEAKER_02: I want you to think of a I want you to think of a zebra and he's munching on the grass out in the savannah.
16:05
SPEAKER_02: And he hears a noise.
16:06
SPEAKER_02: And he goes, Hold on, pay attention.
16:10
SPEAKER_02: Now, why is it doing that?
16:11
SPEAKER_02: Because it has to know if that's a lion.
16:13
SPEAKER_02: And if it is a lion, he's got to remember for next time that this is not the bog to be playing with the ducks in.
16:20
SPEAKER_02: Whatever he's doing.
16:21
SPEAKER_02: Right?
16:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:22
SPEAKER_02: So his brain gets wide open and takes everything in.
16:25
SPEAKER_02: So it's no different when a kid walks into the kitchen and whatever, the baby, the two-year-old, has just like thrown all of the food everywhere.
16:33
SPEAKER_02: You're already late for the podcast that you're supposed to be doing 10 minutes ago.
16:38
SPEAKER_03: Right?
16:38
SPEAKER_02: You're you do you still have a wife?
16:40
SPEAKER_02: I do, yeah.
16:41
SPEAKER_02: Your wife is for whatever reason I'm gonna do.
16:43
SPEAKER_02: I should have there on that one.
16:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
16:45
SPEAKER_02: No, she's out jogging.
16:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, no, she's out at a yoga class.
16:48
SPEAKER_02: So, right, you're you're blowing up.
16:49
SPEAKER_02: When your child walks in the room before you even say anything, they like feel it, right?
16:54
SPEAKER_02: They feel the thing, and just like the zebra, their mind goes, hold on, something doesn't feel safe.
17:00
SPEAKER_02: Because they're wired.
17:01
SPEAKER_02: It's the it's actually a survival thing to read us.
17:04
SPEAKER_02: So when that brain is wide open, for the zebra, when the zebra fig figures out that his zebra friend stepped on a twig, he relaxes and goes back to eating his grass.
17:13
SPEAKER_02: But for the for us, is it's emotional safety, which I don't won't go into, but there's emotional safety, it's a hardwired emotional need for all humans.
17:22
SPEAKER_02: It's waiting for someone to make sense of that feeling.
17:26
SPEAKER_02: So then when you say, not you wouldn't say this, right?
17:29
SPEAKER_02: But if you were to say, look at your shirt, why can't you ever come down in the right clothes?
17:34
SPEAKER_02: Get upstairs and get the right clothes on.
17:36
SPEAKER_02: Now, you do it once, it's fine.
17:37
SPEAKER_02: There's something called the repair.
17:39
SPEAKER_02: We repair it, we move on.
17:40
SPEAKER_02: But if every morning was like that, the brain is smart enough to know that you've just had a bad blow up, that the daughter just had an hour tantrum, that this happened.
17:49
SPEAKER_02: Like that happens.
17:50
SPEAKER_02: The brain puts it in its little brain that remembers it, it moves on.
17:53
SPEAKER_02: But when their inside state is open because they're their their brain has determined that this is important.
18:00
SPEAKER_02: And that the problem is with kids, it can be any emotion, being cornered, being criticized, happy, sad, mad, frustrated, angry.
18:08
SPEAKER_02: So when their brain's wide open, they get a message from us, and when that happens over and over and over and over, it starts to be the story they tell.
18:16
SPEAKER_02: So a great a simple example is how crazy youth sports are these days?
18:19
SPEAKER_02: I've heard, yeah.
18:20
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
18:21
SPEAKER_02: I've seen it in the pictures, yeah.
18:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:24
SPEAKER_02: People are crazy, right?
18:25
SPEAKER_02: And everybody wants their kid to be the next Magic Johnson.
18:28
SPEAKER_02: And so the kid comes off the field.
18:31
SPEAKER_02: They've just been playing.
18:32
SPEAKER_02: Everyone's saying, Have fun, just have fun, not this matter, just have fun.
18:35
SPEAKER_02: And but everyone's on the sideline screaming, run, run faster, shoot, why didn't you shoot?
18:40
SPEAKER_02: Pass the ball, right?
18:41
SPEAKER_02: Everyone thinks it's all fun, but the kid's hearing all of that, right?
18:44
SPEAKER_02: So they're nervous.
18:45
SPEAKER_02: The coach is telling them what to do, they come off.
18:48
SPEAKER_02: And when the parent says, Why couldn't you pass that ball?
18:51
SPEAKER_02: What happened with that goal?
18:53
SPEAKER_02: Or when they come off and they've won, they're like, Yes, that was the best thing I ever saw.
18:58
SPEAKER_02: The message that's constantly being sent is when you do well, you're worthy.
19:03
SPEAKER_02: I'm happy.
19:04
SPEAKER_02: When you don't, not so much.
19:06
SPEAKER_02: So that then becomes a story they tell themselves.
19:09
SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
19:11
SPEAKER_02: It does.
19:11
SPEAKER_02: No, I love it.
19:12
SPEAKER_02: And the really important thing I wanted to say before anyone starts calculating their child's therapy bills There's a there is a there is a piece of data that says people who are fully in tune with their parent kids, who are really they're very they're relaxed.
19:26
SPEAKER_02: Let's say they have no triggers, they've had a perfect childhood, they're fully in tune, they're only fully in tune 20 to 30 percent of the time.
19:33
SPEAKER_02: 20 to 30 percent of the time.
19:34
SPEAKER_02: That's crazy.
19:35
SPEAKER_02: And all the rest of the time, either don't matter or they're a rupture, which we just talk about.
19:41
SPEAKER_02: Get upstairs and change your shirt, kind of loud, right?
19:43
SPEAKER_02: But you repair that rupture and it's no longer, it goes, it goes, it goes in the good box.
19:48
SPEAKER_02: When you repair correctly, that you yell at them, you say that was my fault.
19:53
SPEAKER_02: This happened, that happened, the other happened.
19:55
SPEAKER_02: I know that didn't make you feel good.
19:56
SPEAKER_02: Whatever, the shirt wasn't a problem.
19:58
SPEAKER_02: But let's say he had, I don't know.
19:59
SPEAKER_02: Let's say he, I don't know.
20:01
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna deal with the problem later, if there was in fact a problem.
20:04
SPEAKER_02: But that yelling was my fault, and I'm working on that.
20:07
SPEAKER_02: And I can share a handout for that if you want.
20:09
SPEAKER_02: But so I am by no means telling people they have to get it right all the time.
20:13
SPEAKER_02: But when you start to know that when your child's in that anxious state, they come home with a D, even if you don't think they care.
20:21
SPEAKER_02: If you've ever mentioned that grades are important, they know.
20:24
SPEAKER_02: So they're either feeling guilt or shame or frustrated or stupid or embarrassed.
20:29
SPEAKER_02: And so that's not the moment to talk about, well, if you could just work a little harder, that's the moment to connect, make them feel safe, and then later deal with the problem.
20:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: It reminds me of when I got laid off two months ago.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: Like kind of the embarrassment I had and the shame my telling my wife was like, it's one of those moments.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: If she would have been like, oh, well, if you were just a better worker in that moment, like that would have obviously killed me, right?
20:53
SPEAKER_00: But she was very empathetic to to to that situation and let me grieve kind of the appropriate amount of time and then before she was.
21:01
SPEAKER_02: She's one of the, I mean, that's which is amazing.
21:03
SPEAKER_02: Clearly.
21:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:04
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
21:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:05
SPEAKER_02: No, no, no.
21:05
SPEAKER_02: But it's and I think is it kind of like that?
21:08
SPEAKER_02: It is like that.
21:08
SPEAKER_02: And I think what happens with kids is because we're so worried about them, I'm not expect expecting us to be all empathetic, empathy first all the time.
21:16
SPEAKER_02: I'm big on boundaries, I'm big on saying no, I'm I'm big on letting them fail.
21:20
SPEAKER_02: I'm big on like it's I know that empathy piece is important, but we've kind of gone overboard in our culture now with like the because it's now permissive.
21:28
SPEAKER_02: Like you can't, if you let your kids get away with everything, they're gonna be entitled.
21:31
SPEAKER_02: Right.
21:32
SPEAKER_02: But but to just be aware, especially if they know something's going on and so they want to work on something, to be able to figure out what the moment is where the where the kids emotionally in a state of like this matters.
21:44
SPEAKER_02: And in that state is we want to make them feel safe and connected because when they feel connected, you've heard this, I know, from anyone you've spoken to, but oxytocin flows.
21:54
SPEAKER_02: That's the bonding drug, and then they want to do better.
21:58
SPEAKER_02: They want to do better.
21:58
SPEAKER_02: Kids want to do well.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: No, that's great.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: And and what can you explain like what the repair actually does to their brain?
22:05
SPEAKER_00: Because again, we don't want to get into that pattern where we're always beating them down, being like like the in like for instance, one of the examples I gave on another episode was when I walk into my kids' room and it's messy, I have a hard time of not acknowledging that and being like, Oh my gosh, you're messy.
22:21
SPEAKER_00: Clean up your room.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: Why is it always like this?
22:23
SPEAKER_00: Because I'm such a hypocrite because when they go down to my room downstairs, it's basically the same thing.
22:28
SPEAKER_00: Oh, which is really hard.
22:29
SPEAKER_02: And so so no, so I'm gonna do the repair.
22:32
SPEAKER_02: I will I I want to come back to that too, though, right?
22:35
SPEAKER_02: So because I want to, first of all, there's the modeling piece, but what?
22:39
SPEAKER_02: Kids can do what you're told, even if you don't.
22:42
SPEAKER_02: I mean, like I'm not a total, like, but but you have to set it up to do it right.
22:47
SPEAKER_02: And walking, so walking in the room is a great example.
22:50
SPEAKER_02: Because when you walk in the room, you say, This room is messy, how come you can't keep it clean?
22:55
SPEAKER_02: And so what you the other thing that I say about my moments is usually in the moments where their state is opened up, our intentions are good, right?
23:04
SPEAKER_02: You're thinking, I really want them to know how to clean their room when they're older, because I don't want them to be like me.
23:08
SPEAKER_02: I want them to be organized.
23:10
SPEAKER_02: So your intention is good.
23:11
SPEAKER_02: But when you say it's dirty, messy again, what have you guys been doing?
23:14
SPEAKER_02: You guys gotta keep this clean.
23:15
SPEAKER_02: What do they probably hear?
23:17
SPEAKER_02: They hear your tone, that worry that's probably deep down in you.
23:20
SPEAKER_02: They feel that.
23:21
SPEAKER_02: So it's not just the words, it's the whole package that gets transmitted and they hear, oh, I messed up again.
23:28
SPEAKER_02: I've upset them again.
23:30
SPEAKER_02: It's fine.
23:30
SPEAKER_02: Don't worry about it, Ryan.
23:32
SPEAKER_02: So, because you're they're little, you got plenty of time.
23:35
SPEAKER_02: But so I want to tell you the repair, but then I also want to tell you what you should do about the room.
23:39
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
23:40
SPEAKER_02: So the repair, very simply, is not well, if you would just keep your room clean, I wouldn't have to get so mad.
23:47
SPEAKER_02: Because that is saying how you act is responsible for how I feel.
23:53
SPEAKER_02: And that's just not true.
23:54
SPEAKER_02: Adults don't realize that either, right?
23:56
SPEAKER_02: And I I had a friend recently sort of blame me for how she felt.
24:00
SPEAKER_02: Now, I might have hurt her feelings, so she can be upset that I hurt her feelings, but it's not my fault she felt the way she did, right?
24:06
SPEAKER_02: Because another person might not have felt that.
24:08
SPEAKER_02: Like we are responsible for how we feel.
24:10
SPEAKER_02: If we want to go to the beach and it's raining, we're happy.
24:12
SPEAKER_02: If we want our tomatoes to grow and it's boiling hot again, we're not happy.
24:18
SPEAKER_02: Right?
24:18
SPEAKER_02: That's that is it is in fact in our control.
24:22
SPEAKER_02: So my friend example wasn't a good example, but when we blame kids for our feelings, I'm we're bla it we are we're the adult.
24:29
SPEAKER_02: There's only one adult in the room.
24:30
SPEAKER_02: So the apology has to be.
24:33
SPEAKER_02: I came home from work the other day.
24:35
SPEAKER_02: Remember, I got really mad about the teeth brushing last night.
24:38
SPEAKER_02: I'd had a really long day, and then remember that I always complained about traffic?
24:41
SPEAKER_02: There was so much of that.
24:42
SPEAKER_02: There were so many cars out there.
24:43
SPEAKER_02: I don't know where they were all going.
24:45
SPEAKER_02: There must have been like some fun clown show because they were all on the road.
24:49
SPEAKER_02: So I came home and I was like really stressed because parents get stressed sometimes.
24:55
SPEAKER_02: And I told you that you were not a good kid because you didn't brush your teeth.
24:59
SPEAKER_02: But that's not true.
25:01
SPEAKER_02: Of course you're a good kid.
25:02
SPEAKER_02: I see how many good things you do every day.
25:04
SPEAKER_02: And you say that whether that's true or not.
25:05
SPEAKER_02: How many good things you do every day.
25:07
SPEAKER_02: I saw you playing with your little brother ten minutes ago.
25:10
SPEAKER_02: So what I said, and these these words don't have to be it.
25:13
SPEAKER_02: I'm just giving you an example.
25:14
SPEAKER_02: So I think yeah, what I said, it might have sounded to you like I think you don't care, but I know you care.
25:20
SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna I'm gonna work on this because I really wish I didn't yell.
25:24
SPEAKER_02: And then you do have to kind of work on it.
25:25
SPEAKER_02: We can't if and if you if you're apologizing every day for the same thing, you gotta start to we gotta start to fig something out.
25:32
SPEAKER_02: Maybe it's a you can't be around at teeth brushing time.
25:34
SPEAKER_02: Okay, I mean you really have to make an effort.
25:37
SPEAKER_02: But now the st you've just changed the story that went into their head.
25:41
SPEAKER_02: Before it was they're upset, I'm a problem.
25:44
SPEAKER_02: And that's what paired.
25:45
SPEAKER_02: So then as you get older, when you get upset, for some reason, you always feel like it's your fault and you're afraid to ever ask to ask for anything.
25:52
SPEAKER_02: And it's because you always got blamed, right?
25:54
SPEAKER_02: Um again, I'm giving a very generic example.
25:56
SPEAKER_02: When you repair, you undo that pair.
25:59
SPEAKER_02: It's uh funny, it's called a repair.
26:03
SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's very funny that I have never thought of that as I'm doing my talk.
26:07
SPEAKER_02: That's a book chapter.
26:08
SPEAKER_02: There's my book, right?
26:10
SPEAKER_02: So because I call it the pairing of the state and the message.
26:14
SPEAKER_02: So now they've paired.
26:15
SPEAKER_02: Now you unpair it.
26:17
SPEAKER_02: And then you say, because I know you do matter.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:22
SPEAKER_02: So now we have a new thing that says, and now they're feeling good.
26:25
SPEAKER_02: They're feeling connected.
26:26
SPEAKER_02: They'll hear that.
26:28
SPEAKER_02: And feeling good and connected can also be a way to open the brain.
26:32
SPEAKER_02: Like, oh, this matters.
26:33
SPEAKER_02: I feel really close.
26:34
SPEAKER_02: And then you say, You do care.
26:36
SPEAKER_02: I I know you care.
26:37
SPEAKER_02: So then they think, I matter.
26:39
SPEAKER_02: And they've unpaired it to your upset.
26:41
SPEAKER_02: Like I said, I'm happy to include it in the show notes if you want.
26:43
SPEAKER_02: It's a downloadable, it's a chapter of my book, and then like a four-step process.
26:47
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely we'll share that out.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: And this is all good stuff.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: That like I I have to ask, because your website, it said help parents, like one of your one of your um taglines was help parents build more by doing less.
26:59
SPEAKER_00: Could you ex maybe explain what that means and what what can we stop doing as parents like this week to be more effective?
27:06
SPEAKER_00: To be better parents overall, I suppose I should say.
27:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but better is hard.
27:11
SPEAKER_02: But so yeah, I'm always torn by saying that because it is like, no, no, no, no, no.
27:15
SPEAKER_02: It's good, but I I noticed.
27:19
SPEAKER_02: No, don't you be sorry.
27:20
SPEAKER_02: I just don't want to make people feel like I gotta do better.
27:22
SPEAKER_02: But I I always felt that way too.
27:24
SPEAKER_02: But nobody's not doing the best they can.
27:26
SPEAKER_02: I guess that's my point.
27:27
SPEAKER_02: Right.
27:28
SPEAKER_02: Nobody's not doing the best they can.
27:29
SPEAKER_02: My best had a lot of problems in it.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, me too.
27:34
SPEAKER_02: I think when I say without doing more, I think a couple things happen.
27:38
SPEAKER_02: I think in this culture, first of all, we're so child-centric, right?
27:43
SPEAKER_02: That everything is about the child, everything they watch.
27:46
SPEAKER_02: The child's the one who knows everything.
27:47
SPEAKER_02: The parents know nothing.
27:48
SPEAKER_02: They start playing sports at three so they can have their passion at five.
27:53
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's all gotten kind of crazy, right?
27:55
SPEAKER_02: So to recognize that we are running around for them, number one, and we don't have to be.
28:00
SPEAKER_02: And to make them sit at home, especially when they're little, and learn to play without an electronic device, you're allowed to do that.
28:06
SPEAKER_02: And they can be bored.
28:08
SPEAKER_02: The hardest part of that is us.
28:10
SPEAKER_02: So that's a there's a do less piece just in the like, stop feeling like you have to do everything for them and let them just feel life a little bit.
28:19
SPEAKER_02: That concept of like, oh, but they're bored.
28:23
SPEAKER_02: In fact, at two years old, I hope they get bored.
28:25
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
28:25
SPEAKER_02: At five.
28:26
SPEAKER_02: So so that's one.
28:28
SPEAKER_02: But the other thing that happens is I think when I can actually work with someone.
28:32
SPEAKER_02: And I'm thinking of this example.
28:33
SPEAKER_02: I mean, just a client that I just started with.
28:36
SPEAKER_02: And the child every morning Well the it started with doing her homework, but let's since school started, which is she only started the middle of last week and they went this morning.
28:45
SPEAKER_02: Every morning, the child, when the mom goes to get her out of bed, the child says, I don't want to get up.
28:49
SPEAKER_02: Nope, not going.
28:49
SPEAKER_02: So then the mom says, Well, here's your clothes and I'll put your clothes here.
28:52
SPEAKER_02: Nope, I'm not getting up.
28:53
SPEAKER_02: All right, well, I'm just gonna move everything here, and then I'm gonna get this for you, and maybe you could have a brown blueberry muffin for breakfast if you get downstairs.
29:00
SPEAKER_02: All of that's time and energy and exhaustion.
29:03
SPEAKER_02: And by the end of the morning, the mother's irritated, which is even more time in your right?
29:08
SPEAKER_02: It's even more space, right?
29:10
SPEAKER_02: And you get the kid to school and you're like, oh my God, thank goodness.
29:13
SPEAKER_02: So, with this girl in this particular case, I've worked for a few weeks, so I know that this girl's a power girl.
29:18
SPEAKER_02: So I know she wants power, and I know that she gets power.
29:22
SPEAKER_02: I'm pretty sure she gets power by fighting back and getting someone to react.
29:26
SPEAKER_02: Because if you don't react, there's no one to fight against.
29:28
SPEAKER_02: So I said, look, what I want you to do is for for this week, and I'm gonna I'm just gonna guess the outcome because we did a different thing last week.
29:35
SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna change my story.
29:37
SPEAKER_02: So um actually, I'm going to change it slightly.
29:39
SPEAKER_02: Same girl.
29:40
SPEAKER_02: Similar thing was she wouldn't leave the pool.
29:42
SPEAKER_02: Every time they went to leave the pool, every time they went to leave a friend's house, every time they left to leave a the kids would have a fit.
29:47
SPEAKER_02: Please, please, bribe, bribe.
29:49
SPEAKER_02: Why do we have to leave?
29:49
SPEAKER_02: You have to leave because we have dinner.
29:50
SPEAKER_02: We have to have dinner.
29:51
SPEAKER_02: The whole thing, right?
29:52
SPEAKER_02: Right?
29:52
SPEAKER_02: By the time everyone gets home, they're infuriated.
29:54
SPEAKER_02: I said to them, All right, I want you to make a contract with them.
29:57
SPEAKER_02: He's like, little kids, these are your kids' age, a little older.
30:00
SPEAKER_02: So it's change is much easier at this age.
30:02
SPEAKER_02: I said, I want you to say to them, look, it's been really hard to leave the pool.
30:06
SPEAKER_02: And we are so tired of nagging at you.
30:08
SPEAKER_02: We're so tired.
30:09
SPEAKER_02: You must be so sick of us.
30:10
SPEAKER_02: So what do you think we should do?
30:12
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, they have a little discussion.
30:13
SPEAKER_02: I tell them where I want them to lead it to, leads to a place that says basically between the two, we listen to the kid, we get that they're gonna say, but within five minutes, it's okay, we're gonna leave the pool.
30:22
SPEAKER_02: And if you have a hard time leaving, I'm just gonna pick you up and carry you because they're young enough.
30:27
SPEAKER_02: And that doesn't mean anything.
30:29
SPEAKER_02: It just means that you're not old enough yet to be re able to do it by yourself, and some days are hard.
30:34
SPEAKER_02: So then I'm just gonna carry you to the car.
30:36
SPEAKER_02: And then I said, when they do that, the consequences, and they wrote this all down, the little girl wrote it all down, is that you don't get I think you lose a privilege the next no, that we won't go to the next party because I want it to be related.
30:47
SPEAKER_02: We won't go to the next party.
30:49
SPEAKER_02: And I said, You want them to fail.
30:51
SPEAKER_02: And then as far as I'm concerned, there's so little you can make up that you have a party on Friday, and it's gonna be the best party ever, and you can't go.
30:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:57
SPEAKER_02: They had to come home to two things.
30:58
SPEAKER_02: They wrote it, wrote it all out.
31:00
SPEAKER_02: First, first day they went together.
31:02
SPEAKER_02: They gave, told them they said the five-minute warning or something, they left.
31:05
SPEAKER_02: Last night, because I talked about today, the dad went.
31:08
SPEAKER_02: He was getting infuriated.
31:09
SPEAKER_02: He calls his wife, he's like, Do you remember the contract we made with Mary?
31:12
SPEAKER_02: He's like, Oh yeah.
31:14
SPEAKER_02: So he says to the kids, Remember that contract?
31:16
SPEAKER_02: Mom says it's on the fridge.
31:18
SPEAKER_02: They left.
31:18
SPEAKER_02: Were they whining?
31:19
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
31:20
SPEAKER_02: But do you see how he's doing less?
31:22
SPEAKER_02: He's doing less.
31:23
SPEAKER_02: The kids are doing it, and they're actually learning, listening, obeying.
31:28
SPEAKER_02: I'm not not that I'm not talking about everyone has to obey perfectly, but like the rule is we leave.
31:32
SPEAKER_02: Mom and dad said it's time to leave.
31:33
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna leave.
31:34
SPEAKER_02: If you can't leave, you're not old enough to go to parties yet.
31:37
SPEAKER_02: So that's what I mean when I say do less, build more.
31:40
SPEAKER_02: Because often, now I have to say, sometimes it takes someone to help, but at home, you can start with little things.
31:47
SPEAKER_02: You can start by when you say no, just meaning no.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: I can see myself in those situations.
31:52
SPEAKER_00: The chaotic morning I just had, the getting the kids to leave the pool we just did this weekend.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm in Arizona and Phoenix is all we can do in the summer.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I mean, I yeah, both of those are very applicable to my life, and I'm sure many, many viewers out there too who can relate to that.
32:08
SPEAKER_02: And I want to say, and this is I'm not telling people to come work with me, but I want to say it's not easy.
32:14
SPEAKER_02: I don't know why it's not so easy.
32:16
SPEAKER_02: Well, I do know why, because culture has made it not so easy.
32:20
SPEAKER_02: We watch everything.
32:21
SPEAKER_02: Was your mother, did your mother know every single step you took between the age of two and eight?
32:26
SPEAKER_02: No.
32:26
SPEAKER_02: She thinks she does.
32:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
32:29
SPEAKER_02: My mother my mother knew she didn't.
32:31
SPEAKER_02: But but I mean, so we're we're just the burden that we're given.
32:36
SPEAKER_02: Like you can't go have fun one night.
32:38
SPEAKER_02: You gotta make sure your kids are having fun.
32:39
SPEAKER_02: You can't.
32:40
SPEAKER_02: Right.
32:40
SPEAKER_02: So so I think I'm saying it's hard because for you to know how to set that up the way I set it up with them, is not obvious, right?
32:49
SPEAKER_02: Right.
32:50
SPEAKER_02: And and I think I just say that because it's important to know that.
32:54
SPEAKER_02: Because every kid is different.
32:55
SPEAKER_02: And you're not living in a world where everyone else, when they say time to leave the pool, is leaving.
33:01
SPEAKER_02: You're living in a world where there's a ton of per permissiveness happening all around you.
33:05
SPEAKER_02: And so what is your kid learning?
33:07
SPEAKER_02: They're not learning when mom and dad talk, we leave.
33:10
SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
33:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it does.
33:13
SPEAKER_00: That gives me a little bit of a path forward in terms of like doing less, but doing less but getting more out of it.
33:20
SPEAKER_02: Building, building more.
33:21
SPEAKER_02: You're building more in there.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: Building more.
33:23
SPEAKER_00: There we go.
33:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like I said no, it's time to leave.
33:26
SPEAKER_02: And and then they don't leave.
33:27
SPEAKER_02: You have a conversation just for you, you have a conversation with them before.
33:31
SPEAKER_02: So tonight, tomorrow night, from now on, can't leave the pool quietly.
33:35
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what you're I'm not gonna go into we I would have to talk to you about what we would give as consequence, but we don't get to go the next time.
33:40
SPEAKER_02: Or the next time we stay for half the amount of time.
33:42
SPEAKER_02: And both your kids you can pick up.
33:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
33:44
SPEAKER_02: We picking up there's a chapter in my book.
33:47
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have to be mean.
33:48
SPEAKER_02: It's like, I got you, you're just having a hard time leaving.
33:50
SPEAKER_02: I'm just helping you.
33:51
SPEAKER_02: Do not worry about this.
33:52
SPEAKER_02: I I love you, you're safe.
33:54
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
33:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
33:55
SPEAKER_00: The transitions are especially with a child on the spectrum, those are the can't be the hardest.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: It's almost like we have to bribe and give many, many notices ahead of okay, ten minutes, five minutes left, like all that kind of stuff.
34:08
SPEAKER_00: Really, I think tiring.
34:10
SPEAKER_02: And remember, they're learning that that's working for them.
34:13
SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
34:14
SPEAKER_00: It's really confusing.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: That's a it's confusing.
34:16
SPEAKER_00: I try to be like as less startling as possible and and give a little bit of a notice.
34:21
SPEAKER_00: So that way she's a little bit more prepared.
34:23
SPEAKER_00: But no, I love this approach because like we go to the water park every weekend, basically.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: And so this is something we can put in action of like, hey, we're gonna do this.
34:30
SPEAKER_02: And the real trick is, Ryan, the real trick is putting into action having them agree to it.
34:34
SPEAKER_02: And with the older one, I would just say, I'm gonna pick you up.
34:36
SPEAKER_02: Like she, if she's on the spectrum, I mean it's it's no different than picking up a dog who's hurt his leg and can't walk.
34:43
SPEAKER_02: I it's not nice of me to say a dog.
34:44
SPEAKER_02: I don't mean a dog.
34:45
SPEAKER_02: I No, I know what you mean.
34:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:47
SPEAKER_02: It's no different than picking her up if she had broken her foot and was unable to walk out of the pool.
34:54
SPEAKER_02: You would pick her up because she wasn't able.
34:56
SPEAKER_02: And that would be very loving.
34:58
SPEAKER_02: So it's really how you approach it.
35:00
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna help you leave today because I see it's really hard.
35:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
35:04
SPEAKER_02: And then the biggest trick, just so you and I you may not be able to do that with your child, and there may be all reasons, but I just throw that out there for the audience as well.
35:10
SPEAKER_02: The biggest trick is the next weekend when they don't get to go to the park, and it's just of course worse on you than it is on them.
35:16
SPEAKER_02: But the next weekend when they don't get to go, you say, It's okay.
35:19
SPEAKER_02: You're young, you're learning.
35:21
SPEAKER_02: That's not gonna happen again.
35:22
SPEAKER_02: Next time we go, you're gonna leave.
35:24
SPEAKER_02: We ask.
35:25
SPEAKER_02: Right?
35:25
SPEAKER_02: It's all very positive.
35:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
35:29
SPEAKER_02: Okay, because I'm a talker, just quickly.
35:30
SPEAKER_02: What did you say the first time when your child first learned was trying to learn to walk and they fell over?
35:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, just just encouragement, right?
35:37
SPEAKER_00: Positivity, keep it going.
35:38
SPEAKER_00: Like you just it was the excitement of like, okay, he's not crawling anymore.
35:41
SPEAKER_00: He did like this little leg drag.
35:43
SPEAKER_00: My son is too so that's my most vivid memory.
35:46
SPEAKER_00: I don't remember my daughter's journey as much, but he said forever was just dragging his leg and like crawling.
35:53
SPEAKER_00: And I bet you never yelled at the end of the day.
35:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:56
SPEAKER_00: No, no.
35:56
SPEAKER_00: So we were just so excited when he started to take that leap.
35:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:00
SPEAKER_02: Right.
36:00
SPEAKER_02: You never said, you just gotta put your right foot first.
36:02
SPEAKER_02: Why don't you doing what I say?
36:04
SPEAKER_02: It's no different when they can't leave the pool.
36:06
SPEAKER_02: They haven't learned yet that no means no, leaving means leaving.
36:11
SPEAKER_02: For the artistic one, it's a little different, right?
36:13
SPEAKER_02: So, and it's just funny though.
36:15
SPEAKER_02: That's I say, right, as and and so as a par as a when they're learning to walk, you encourage them, you give them a little finger, scaffolding, and then they can do it.
36:22
SPEAKER_02: But it's hard.
36:23
SPEAKER_02: Right.
36:23
SPEAKER_00: It is hard.
36:24
SPEAKER_00: Good.
36:25
SPEAKER_00: Now it's just weird that we don't think like that.
36:27
SPEAKER_00: Like when they start to walk, it's all encouragement, it's all positivity, but then we know they're learning to do something else in life.
36:32
SPEAKER_00: It's like that dis disappointment or like frustration or like the huffing and puffing we do as parents.
36:37
SPEAKER_02: Why do we do that?
36:38
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
36:39
SPEAKER_02: Fascinating, right?
36:40
SPEAKER_02: I think often it's because we think they know better.
36:43
SPEAKER_02: They should know when I say go, go.
36:45
SPEAKER_02: But if half the time the parents admitted to to letting them stay, then why wouldn't they try to stay?
36:51
SPEAKER_02: How many people pull that thing in Las Vegas, even though there's a 20% payout?
36:55
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: That's me.
36:56
SPEAKER_02: Usually that's why.
36:57
SPEAKER_02: So the kids, right?
36:58
SPEAKER_02: So the kids have learned it.
37:00
SPEAKER_02: So they're doing what's anyways.
37:01
SPEAKER_02: Well, that's the whole thing.
37:02
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
37:02
SPEAKER_02: It's it's it's hard.
37:04
SPEAKER_00: It's really hard.
37:05
SPEAKER_00: It is hard.
37:05
SPEAKER_00: And I understand why now more so.
37:07
SPEAKER_00: So thank you for that breaking that down.
37:09
SPEAKER_00: So you've you've obviously you've been on a lot of media runs, five Fox 5 DC, Hub post.
37:15
SPEAKER_00: You have the book out right now.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: So the micro step method for the overwhelmed parent.
37:19
SPEAKER_00: That's exactly me.
37:21
SPEAKER_00: And then the free guide you said you were going to link us with.
37:23
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, can you tell us all about your projects and then your new book, which is gonna be called Unpair Repair, right?
37:28
SPEAKER_00: Everything, Mary Wilcox Smith, um, that we need to know and how to follow you.
37:32
SPEAKER_00: Thanks to Ryan McDonough, because there I was on the podcast when it all came.
37:38
SPEAKER_02: I've never been in a book before.
37:39
SPEAKER_02: But I do have a micro step Tuesday that I really like.
37:42
SPEAKER_02: I'm doing it every other Tuesday, and it's basically a micro step.
37:45
SPEAKER_02: And I give an idea of what happened, give some brain science, um, I keep it short, whatever what happened, what the pattern is, what the micro step is, and what one question, and then for you to go away and try it that week.
37:55
SPEAKER_02: And that's where I'll throw in some brain science.
37:58
SPEAKER_02: I think it's uh people tell me they really like it and it's useful, and I try to make it funny.
38:02
SPEAKER_02: You can sign up for that on my website under resources or something.
38:05
SPEAKER_02: And um, so that's a great one to sign up for.
38:07
SPEAKER_02: And then anything else, I do a lot of I'm doing a lot of speaking at the moment.
38:11
SPEAKER_02: So if you have any speaking opportunities, feel free to reach out, even if it's virtual or you happen to have a anything, you can reach out and see if I can help you.
38:19
SPEAKER_02: And the book is either on Amazon, which you'll put in the show notes.
38:23
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
38:23
SPEAKER_02: And and then I work with clients.
38:25
SPEAKER_02: I don't I don't have tons and tons of clients because I'm trying to do more speaking, but I I love working one-on-one with clients.
38:32
SPEAKER_02: So I do a lot of that.