Latest / GAIN Momentum / How Technology Enables a New Breed of Hotel Brands | with Matthew Opferkuch
Transcript
- GAIN Momentum episode #36 - How Technology Enables a New Breed of Hotel Brands | with Matthew Opferkuch === Adam Mogelonsky: Welcome to the Gain Momentum podcast, focusing on timeless lessons from senior leaders in hospitality, food service, travel, and technology. Our co host today is Vincent Sompson. Vincent, how are you? Vincent: Very good, Adam. Thank you. And I'm looking forward to this chat again. Adam Mogelonsky: Awesome. And our special guest today is Matthew Opferkosch. How are you? Matthew: Well, I'm very glad to be here today, sadly not a beautiful day where I am, but a nice day for a podcast. Adam Mogelonsky: So, uh, for listeners and readers and watchers, Matthew is the CEO and co founder of The Laundry Rooms. He is coming in, I believe you're in Hamilton today or, um, Matthew: in Waterloo location today. Adam Mogelonsky: Right, so Waterloo, Ontario, and I'm coming from Toronto. So as a [00:01:00] background, before we get into our questions, I think some geography is in order. So Matthew, if you want to tell people about the lovely geography of Southern Ontario, so people know where Hamilton, Kitchener, Waterloo, KW is relative to Toronto, which they may know. Thank you. Matthew: Sure. Yeah. I mean, we're, we're sort of Southwest and West of Toronto in, in what's called the GTA, the greater Toronto area. Uh, these are secondary markets, which we focused on sort of during the early days. we'll get into that in just a minute. we are slowly working our way into, these sort of major, Urban corridors like Toronto, Montreal, and so on, but as I mentioned, we started out very much in the secondary market. Adam Mogelonsky: Awesome. So we have here two Canadians from Southern Ontario and Vincent is coming from Valencia, Spain to give us a perspective on Europe, which is essentially the land of small groups and [00:02:00] independence. So bringing a great perspective on this episode. So Matthew, our first question for you is, what single piece of advice would you give to vendor companies Matthew: that's a good one. you know, I mean, I get hit up all day, every day by somebody trying to sell us something. Uh, for the most part, it's tech related these days. And, so I think, you know, if you're going to try and sell particularly tech, but just about anything, The niche and that is to say what problem are you gonna solve for me? And you know, I have so many software companies particularly come to me with you know, they have the solution for everything They're gonna solve all my problems and that tells me immediately. They're not gonna help me one bit You know if you can solve one Specific problem and really solve that problem [00:03:00] You've got a real shot at success in my mind Adam Mogelonsky: So, without giving away your, what your particular tech stack is, we're talking, going back to founding the Laundry Rooms, an emerging brand in 2019, correct? Is that when it was founded? Matthew: That's right, yeah. Founded in 2019 and we opened, uh, in the midst of the pandemic in September of 2020. Adam Mogelonsky: And the Laundry Rooms, how would you define your hotel category that the company's in? Matthew: Sure. so just to clarify, we started out, uh, I'm, I'm a hotelier by trade. I've been, operating hotels my, my entire career. and we started out actually in the short term rental niche, which I, I realize is, is almost a four letter word for those of us in the hotel industry. and we have since, Sort of moved away from short-term rentals and into, hoteling, but in a, in a different, very different model from sort of conventional hotel management companies. you know, we, we launched in September of 2020, we launched [00:04:00] within the context of a mixed use residential development. And we had 40 of those residential units that we treated as effectively hotel rooms, right. Adam Mogelonsky: Mm hmm. Matthew: You know, as I mentioned, we launched in September of 2020. If you'll recall, there were, all kinds of lockdowns and all sorts of restrictions related to COVID. We, we actually thought we would be insolvent in a matter of weeks. Uh, we, we figured we'd all just written checks and, you know, that was going to be the end of it. much to our surprise, we are, our first location in Waterloo is the Considered the tech hub of Canada. those of you, uh, familiar with Waterloo, Ontario will know that. You know, Google's Canadian headquarters is here, and there's Shopify, and Myovision, and several others. And these companies, thankfully, uh, continue to bring engineers, programmers, and so forth from all over the globe, and even, you know, despite the sort of restrictions. And [00:05:00] because of the nature of our product, we offer a full residential apartment. So you've got kitchens, laundry facilities, you know, 800, 1000 square feet. Uh, so these engineers could come, self isolate for two weeks. We had developed, even prior to COVID, a sort of contactless, uh, system whereby guests can, uh, Make their reservation, check in, check out, communicate all via their mobile device. and that proved to be a, you know, a real, uh, sort of win, during COVID, as you can imagine. and so, lo and behold, what we thought was going to be a, um, A disaster. Uh, you know, we started to see some traction and we would have these bookings, these engineers coming from all over the globe, staying with us for two weeks, self isolating during that period, and then sticking around for another four, six, eight weeks while they worked on a project. again, because of the nature of the Waterloo market, the tech industry and [00:06:00] so forth, we gained a lot of traction and lived to tell the tale. Adam Mogelonsky: So, so tying it back to the first question here, launching in September 2020, all the pivoting and the question marks that existed for the first three quarters of that year, how did you guide the decision making process for the technology stack and the vendors you selected based on where the product needed to be at launch? Matthew: Yeah. that's a good, another good question. you know, we did not want to be the sort of traditional hotel company and not to sort of call out, well, I will call out a couple of names. Why not? you know, Opera, Oracle have been around for, you know, since Jesus was a babe, and has been the sort of standard in the hotel industry for certainly as long as I've been in it, and that's a long time. and so we, we chose not to go that route. I don't want to get into sort of specifics, but we did find, and I know you had Richard Walter on, uh, on the program, I [00:07:00] believe some time ago, and so we landed on Mews. you know, great cloud based product, very, easy to use, great, user interface. still has, uh, if I'm being completely honest, still has a way to go in terms of getting into particularly sort of group functionality and so forth. But, you know, again, when we started this thing five years ago, we did not imagine that we would see the success and growth that we've seen to date. Um, so it, it suited our need at the time and continues to do so, to this day. And there have been vast improvements on that platform. They also have a very, um. Robust, I guess, marketplace that allows us to select partner vendors that have, you know, full API integrations. Which again, creates kind of a short list because there are, as you know, so many vendors out there. If we talk about Let's say guest communication, just as an example, there are probably several hundred solutions out there. I'm familiar [00:08:00] with a couple of dozen myself. And so the selection process would be, it's a monumental task. And so again, Mews, I think, did a really nice job of creating that sort of marketplace. Again, recognizing that they have that amazing integration. And then it was just a matter of simply shortlisting from, from the marketplace. Vincent: Yeah, that makes sense. Um, Matthew, what about artificial intelligence? Do you see any implication on your specific business, with, you know, the rise, you know, in the last couple of 18 months, you know, increased, increased quality, increased speed, increased use, use cases for hospitality, but for particularly your business and your segment, um, does it have any implications for you? Matthew: It does. I will tell you that up to this point, the AI has been, I'll say, underwhelming as it relates to our business. Certainly in terms of revenue management, there are, you know, great implications. and, and I would argue that Sort of that form [00:09:00] of, of AI has been around for much longer than people care to, you know, care to sort of recognize. We all think it all happened last year, you know, it's been happening for, for the better part of a decade. Certainly the chatbot implication is, has some real potential for us. We are, as you can imagine, we have limited staffing, and that's part of the, sort of, the beauty of the model. And so, any way that we can become more efficient and more effective is, of course, attractive. So that, we're keeping a very close eye on these, um, on the chat models, uh, in terms of guest communication. You know, answering those sort of day to day questions that come up on virtually every Guest, for example, right? Certainly that is the case. You know, we are, there's some business intelligence software out there that's interesting as well in terms of gathering and deciphering guest data, which, you know, we're [00:10:00] very intrigued by. We're still, you know, we're a relatively small player though, and as I'm often reminded by my CFO, you know, we have a robust tech stack to begin with, and so we have to sort of balance, right, I would love to have some additional business intelligence tools, for example, but the cost at this point probably doesn't outweigh the benefit. Vincent: That makes sense. Yeah. And I think a question that relates back to Europe. Um, we're seeing a lot of similar concepts of, foodie service departments, here in Europe, particularly, um, boutique groups. they have a keen focus on community, um, and building co work facilities within their, uh, within their concepts. Is that something that, that you also keep in mind in your expansion, uh, in your philosophy from the brands as well? Matthew: Yeah, that's, that is an interesting concept and we do follow several of the European operators keenly. Yeah, you seem to have been certainly on the service department side, [00:11:00] you know, light years ahead of anything that's been done here in North America. We do, very much so. And I told myself we weren't going to talk about it, but here we are, uh, in Waterloo, uh, we have, uh, a product called La La Social House, which is, in fact, a private members club, That is situated in the same building as our, as our hotel. And so guests of, uh, the laundry rooms can access the members club and it provides them with exactly that. Coworking facilities, you know, beautiful restaurant space, private boardrooms, and so on and so forth. And we have been, we've been testing that product now for just about a year. the challenge is that it is ultimately still, you know, A food and beverage product and, uh, you know, for those of you in the industry, you know that food and beverage represents 10 percent margin and 90 percent headaches, uh, where perhaps the opposite of is true in the accommodation segment. [00:12:00] so as much as we, we see the upside, it won't scale nearly as quickly as, uh, as the laundry rooms and the accommodations piece. Adam Mogelonsky: Well, not to be devil's advocate on what you just said there is, can you draw a correlation between the presence of a LaLa members club on site with the attractiveness to book your hotel rooms in terms of a mixed use real estate value added play? Matthew: Yeah, honestly, I would say today, no. There are certainly, yeah, there, there are certainly some guests for whom it is, you know, very much, it's very attractive, let's say, but when I look at the cost versus the benefit today, I would have to say no, truthfully. Adam Mogelonsky: Wow. Interesting. Matthew: And, and that's again, market specific, you know, Waterloo, Ontario is a, is a [00:13:00] relatively small market, you know, it's only a couple of hundred thousand people. You know, I'd like to test it in Toronto. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, I mean, well, then you're, you're going up against guys like Soho House and all them. So, Matthew: Yeah, yeah, it would be fun. Adam Mogelonsky: Matthew, let's, let's get into our second question here. Matthew: Sure. Adam Mogelonsky: What are some of the challenges or setbacks you've experienced when rolling out a new business expansion or partnership? Matthew: Yeah, well, partnership is a, that's a tough one. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Matthew: You know, it's, you've got to be so careful, and, and I will say like any relationships in life, you know, be careful. You, with the right people and the right partners, you can do virtually anything. and I, you know, I consider myself extremely lucky. I have three partners in, in the laundry rooms business and, and each brings uh, you know, sort of a core strength to the table, whether it's finance, whether it's branding and marketing, or, you know, operations, or what have you. I would say, you know, get to know your [00:14:00] partners, and even on a personal level, it's so important to enjoy the people you deal with on a daily basis, and if you don't sort of get along, and I know that seems, perhaps sort of, you know, obvious, but I find that's not always the case. And if you don't get along with the people you're dealing with on a, on a daily basis, odds are you're not going to be set up for success. you know, that, that really is kind of the reality. And then secondly, and certainly as importantly, maybe more importantly, is understand where your capital is coming from. you know, particularly in today's climate, you know, when we launched, uh, five years ago in 2019, you know, we were borrowing money at 3 4%. here we are in, 2024 and, uh, we would be borrowing money north of 15%. Um, so, you know, getting, having access to capital and, I'll say cheaper capital is absolutely key [00:15:00] and, you know, keep some powder dry because we've all witnessed, you know, we've all been witness over the last several years in terms of the cost of capital and the guys who have done it right have managed to keep some powder dry and we'll see the other side of this thing, but we've also seen, and I'm sure you two have as well, uh, you know, several companies drop off as a result. Adam Mogelonsky: To pick out one thing on the first part about partnerships, uh, before getting into the capital, which is maybe more fun for people to hear, talk about relationships and relationships can have a honeymoon phase. So when we're picking out partners, what green flags and red flags would you look for During those initial engagements to indicate that somebody is a good long term partner or associate. Matthew: Listen, I'm not a psychologist, but, you know, I can tell you that, understanding somebody's motivation to be in business, [00:16:00] uh, is very telling. you know, I've watched, we've, we've all watched, uh, several companies similar to ours, like with a similar business model, build what I call a valuation. You know, they, they go up. Let's use WeWork as an example, because they're not a competitor of mine. You know, WeWork was clearly in the business of building evaluation, right? Not in the business of building a brand, and building a brand, is very different. It's slower, it's more methodical, it's more purposeful. You're right, you know, you're not gonna cash out with the tech billions, perhaps. But in the long run, you It will serve you better, particularly. When there's a downturn in the market like there is now, and so when we talk about partners, you know, if, if one of my partners was saying to me, hey, you know, let's build a valuation, let's take this thing to a hundred million dollars and, you know, or a billion dollars and, and sell it. as tempting as [00:17:00] that might have been, it's not the right approach. It's certainly not my, my approach. And, you know, again, we've borne witness to a couple of companies recently, high profile companies, WeWork being one, that are, are paying the price, Adam Mogelonsky: we're talking about the pressures to grow a valuation and even your equity partners, your capital may be pressuring you for that increased valuation. How do you Put the brakes on anyone who really wants that to emphasize strategic growth and reinforcing your brand equity. Matthew: Yeah, and, and again, look, I'm not adverse to growth. Uh, you know, to be clear, of course, uh, you know, we are in this business to make money and grow like, like any business. Uh, I think you just have to sort of pick your lane. Uh, you know, one of the things I'm most proud of with the laundry rooms is, uh, as I mentioned, we have this sort of contact free solution whereby, uh, We can run [00:18:00] a hotel with effectively no bodies. we don't. We, in fact, have management on site. that's a, a choice, and that's a brand decision. But one of the things I'm most proud of is if you look at our reviews across the board, almost without exception, they are five stars. And, I'm a lifelong hotel guy. Uh, you know, I grew up in luxury hotels, I've run arguably some of the best hotels, certainly in Canada. and, if you had suggested to me, six, seven, ten years ago, that I could run a hotel with two people, and a really cool tech stack, and generate five star reviews, I would have laughed you out of the room. I would have, there's no way, uh, you need a concierge, a valet, a bellman, a doorman, a houseman, and so on and so forth, and here we are in 2024, and if you look at our reviews, we are almost, without exception, five stars across the board. We run a very efficient model, and, uh, It is lucrative, uh, you know, [00:19:00] we make money, but it also resonates. And in, so in my mind, back to your question, there's much more equity in that brand than there is in a, you know, pop and fizzle. So, uh, I Adam Mogelonsky: Wow. Matthew, we'll move into our third question, which is looking ahead. What do you see as the biggest opportunities for growth in hospitality for 2024 and beyond? Matthew: mean, certainly on the tech side, I mean, the, the, the opportunities are almost limitless and we can chat a little further on those. Uh, something you've written a great deal on, Adam, is wellness. And you know, there's no doubt that, uh, in my mind that wellness will continue to be, at the forefront of virtually everything. Uh, not just hospitality. I was listening to a really interesting podcast yesterday, actually, on The Economist about, Ozempic. And, [00:20:00] uh, you know, I had no idea it costs roughly 1, 000 a month, I guess. Uh, but it is very much geared towards, currently, uh, wealthy Americans. And, you know, they are, of course, A, they can afford it, and B, they are very, sort of, I'll say, self conscious. and, so this is, you know, that is very much a discretionary spend. And yet, people are choosing to spend 12, 000 a year, U. S., to lose some weight. and I think that's very telling. of, you know, where we're headed, particularly on, on the sort of the upscale and luxury end of things and how wellness is going to continue to play into that. I'm not suggesting that Ozempic is necessarily a wellness play, but it's certainly in the same vein. and, you know, we've all experienced it. I mean, the proliferation of spas in North America, over the last decade or two decades even, you know, we, we see them popping up left and right. people are, people want to take care of themselves and, uh, [00:21:00] you know, people have the, the means, frankly, uh, to take care of themselves. so wellness, certainly, branded residences, uh, that's another one that, uh, you know, I think, I know there's an opportunity there and again, we're seeing those, proliferate. you know, we saw. What was it, 10 15 years ago in Toronto, right? With the Four Seasons, Ritz Carlton, the Trump, formerly Trump Tower, now St. Regis. Those were all sort of mixed use developments that incorporated branded residences, And, you know, it allows the developer an opportunity to leverage the brand, to, uh, sell at a higher per square foot, because, of course, you can attach the Four Seasons name to it. and, you know, also provides, guests with the assurance, the, you know, the brand promise, if you will, uh, that you're buying something that is, in fact, going to live up to those, those high standards. Yeah, and you know, on the tech side, like I said earlier, you know, we have a very [00:22:00] good tech stack, I think, it works, but there's always room for improvement, and there are, you know, opportunities abound, on the tech side of things, as I'm sure you both would agree. Adam Mogelonsky: So, you've given us three things to follow up on here, wellness, branded residences, and technology. a lot of these, the first two at least, are most applicable right now still to the luxury end, the five star. And we can pick out some, some of the economics behind that, but. Now, drilling down to how that applies to myself and Vincent. We are both younger consumers and maybe the, I guess the term is we maybe are Henry's, high earners not yet, not rich yet, as an acronym, but so we're more likely to stay in your product than a Four Seasons or, or a Mandarin Oriental or a Rosewood as we travel. Uh, how do you [00:23:00] see. Wellness and branded residences applying to the mid scale and upmarket, not just luxury. Matthew: Hmm, that's interesting. Uh, I'll come back to wellness in a second. on the branded residences, and maybe I, maybe the term branded isn't correct In this instance, but certainly sort of, offering or providing hotel like services, Within a residential context, whether that's branded or otherwise, um, so we've, we've also tinkered with, you know, we, we obviously provide housekeeping services, for example, for our hotel guests. we have a team of, uh, who provide repairs and maintenance as well. So we have been testing a model called room service. That provides residents, not, not hotel guests, residents, with those same services, via a, an app, uh, so if I'm living here in uptown Waterloo and, uh, [00:24:00] I need housekeeping services, for example, or I need a chandelier hung, or, you know, virtually anything, my, a dog walker, whatever the case may be, you can, in fact, avail yourself of those services via our app. And so that's something we're testing, and that's very much geared towards the mid market. you know, here in Waterloo, for example, I think you can probably buy a condo in the building I'm in right now for roughly 800, 000, which by today's standards is considered very much mid market, certainly by Toronto standards. Um, um, and, uh, and, you know, we're finding that, uh, the consumers are, Again, they're looking for that convenience, again, as the population continues to age, this may not, sort of be geared towards you two at this point, but as the population continues to age, that sort of assisted living component is also very attractive, right? If you're in your 70s and you're [00:25:00] still not ready to, uh, Move to a retirement home, uh, we can provide services that will allow you to stay within your own, within your current residence. Uh, on the wellness side, yeah, that's, that's a tough one for us. I mean, we, we certainly provide gyms, uh, at all our locations and, and we get a lot of demand for that. I would love to find the right spa partner, but it's virtually impossible, to find someone who can operate at a high level at scale. you know, most great spas are sort of either owner operated, or at a, at a, again, a very high level. You mentioned sort of, you know, Ritz Carlton, Four Seasons, and so forth. that's a tough one, that's, we haven't cracked that nut yet. Vincent: Yeah, I think, Adam, you talk, you talk about it and you write about it a lot, right? What you can do within the rooms as well, you know, apart from external facilities, what are some things that, that you'd say, you know, you could implement? Adam Mogelonsky: the room, so we're talking sleep [00:26:00] tech, some stuff around the programming on the interactive TVs, uh, you can have stuff built into an app like the clas the now classic example is Hyatt's integration with Headspace and uh, you know, the Mindfulness app. Is that what you're referring to, Vincent? Vincent: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Matthew: Yeah. Yeah. I actually, I mean, I follow everything you, you sort of publish, Adam, and yeah, you've written a great deal on, on sleep tech, on even, you know, the right bedding, for example, which is seemingly, obvious, but perhaps not so obvious for, for, uh, some hoteliers. We take, you know, we, we take great pride in, in the physical product that we offer. Yeah. Absolutely. The mattresses, the bedding, and so forth are all extremely high end. Much, much more high end than sort of where we position our, brand in general, right? We're, we're sort of upper mid, I would say, but the beds we provide you would find at the Ritz Carlton, as an example. Um, so we take [00:27:00] that extremely seriously. Something I experienced, uh, Personally, recently, uh, I stayed in, uh, Halifax at the Muir Hotel, which is a beautiful Marriott Autograph Collection, uh, hotel that opened last year. And they had a really cool, just a little QR code next to the bed. And it would take you directly to, I can't remember whether it was Spotify, but regardless, and it had the beautiful sort of soothing sounds of the ocean, which, you know, we were in Halifax, looking out at the ocean beyond, and, It was just so calming and so soothing and such a sort of relatively low tech, and very low cost, idea or example. Uh, that's something that we are going to play off, uh, in the not too distant future at the Laundry Rooms. Adam Mogelonsky: You say it's low tech, but you think about it's QR codes. Then you have to have some sort of single sign on underneath there to recognize that it's a hotel guest in this room. There's probably some tracking to know, where and when you accessed it. and then you need to have that [00:28:00] curated subscription list, which maybe needs to change over time. So it isn't the same thing. So it still is a lot of technology behind that. Matthew: yeah, I guess I'm just so accustomed to all things tech these days, I take it for Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And of course the technology there, it has to be seamless. It has to be frictionless. It has to be convenient to the guest in order for it to work as a feature. Matthew: Yeah, 100%. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and I will say, we are, sorry, go ahead, Vincent. Yes. Vincent: terms of technology, How do you think it impacts also your, your employees, the people that work, you know, with your brands? how does, you know, did that change in the last couple of years, especially during COVID when a lot of people left hospitality, right? Because of various reasons, did it change your mind in, in a certain way? Since how you look, you know, to technology and the people that work with that, with the technology, or is that something that's, you know, this is not a priority, [00:29:00] just a business case of the same? Matthew: Yeah, that really is a great question, and you're absolutely correct in that it did certainly change our approach. You know, it, I'll say to some extent it allows us to be kind of a sexier brand. You know, we're very much sort of moving into the future as opposed to, you know, many hotel brands that simply are not. It does allow us to work remotely. To a large extent as well, which is extremely attractive, particularly in the context of a hospitality business, which is, you know, it's rarely the case in our industry, as you both know, and, you know, we are able to, in our case, we always say, you know, we put the people where you need them and not where we don't. So, for example, our accounting, my P&L self populates. Uh, because I have a really cool interface between our property management system and our accounting platform. So I don't need a team of bookkeepers, for [00:30:00] example, right? And what that allows me to do, of course, is to compensate the guest facing, employees. better We provide them with flexible hours. you know, if, if we don't have, if we have only four or five check ins today, for example, at a given location, well, I don't need you there for 16 hours. Right? So, if you, if that means you can work from home as long as Guest communication is there and the guest checks in without any, uh, incident and so forth. Then, terrific. we can provide them with that flexibility. We can better compensate them and provide them with benefits, which we do to every one of our employees. Again, something that we're, we're quite proud of. And so you're exactly right, Vincent. We have a young, motivated workforce who otherwise would probably be becoming electricians and, you know. because it was a really tough slog during COVID, as you know. Uh, yeah. Vincent: Makes sense. [00:31:00] Yeah. Adam Mogelonsky: on the IP side of your technology, how you're able to draw more EBITDA out of that equation, but also on keeping great team members around. And that is, that's a huge lesson for brands to really figure out in terms of how to make your tech stack work for the employee side. Matthew: Yeah, absolutely. And, and again, you know, as, as a lifelong hotelier, I would never have imagined that as a, consumer, uh, that I would be happy with sort of a relatively low touch, high tech approach. but I have to say, even in my case, and I, I Initially I thought we would be targeting, you know, guests, I'll say your age, Vincent, Adam, in the sort of, you know, the 20 and 30 somethings. But more and more I'm finding guests in their 40s, 50s, even 60s, they want to avoid the [00:32:00] lineup, they want to get to their room. They lay their head on their pillow, they can text us and tell us they want a softer pillow, more pillows, a bottle of wine, you know, whatever the case may be, we can provide it. And it's all, again, it's all done via this mobile device, which seems, again, counterintuitive for somebody who's been in hospitality for their entire careers, but I will say that we can still provide an exceptional level of service. Adam Mogelonsky: Wow, it speaks to the timelessness of these convenient tech platforms that you've built and that others are trying to build. Matthew: Yeah, and again, time and place as well, right? I mean, yes, if I'm on holiday, of course I would love it if the concierge would help me out and, deal with my booking for scuba diving and, you know, whatever the case may be. but, certainly in our sort of more urban, uh, experience, the [00:33:00] tech applies. And actually, even then, I say that. I stayed at a resort not that long ago. And there was a, there was a pretty good tech component. And again, it's not that I don't like talking to people. Of course I do, but sometimes it's nice to do it from the comfort of your bed and just simply click a few buttons and voila, you're off to scuba lessons at 9am and sailing at 11 and whatever the case may be. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, I guess, um, you know, to draw another term here, a lot of people forget that not all of us are extroverts, and not all of us are extroverts all the time. We're ambiverts, which is the new term for that. We flip, we vacillate. Matthew: Oh, that's interesting. I hadn't heard that one. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, it's a good one. Matthew, our fourth question and final question. What problems would you advise entrepreneurs to focus on solving in order to quickly scale within the hotel industry? Matthew: Well, again, back to my sort of cautionary tale about scaling quickly. you [00:34:00] know, I would, I would be a little more cautious, and, and that's my nature as well, is just to be a little more cautious. I think personally that, uh, building a great brand and whether that's a hotel business or a software platform or, you know, whatever the case may be, there's much more value. In a really, truly great brand. than there is, in a business that is simply scaling for, for the sake of scaling. so I would, I would probably be a little more cautious, than most. You know, if, even if I look at within our industry, uh, you know, Sonder is, is much talked about. you know, they launched, they went public, what, two years ago now, I think, a two billion dollar IPO. And the last time I checked, their market cap was about 250 million, uh, so, you know, they've burned through a lot of cash. And, I, again, I mean, I have nothing but sort of respect and admiration for, for the folks there. They're [00:35:00] incredibly intelligent and, and, uh, very successful. But, I would argue that as a brand, It's neither here nor there. Uh, you know, in some cases it's a hotel, in other cases an apartment, in some cases completely contact free, in other cases not. and, you know, as we all know, at the end of the day a brand is about, consistency and it's about a brand promise. you know, and it's tough to make a promise when, the product is simply not consistent, the service is not consistent. so Consistency, uh, is obviously a key. You know, when you look at even Marriott's success, and I lovingly, in some cases, refer to them as Hotel Anywhere, because, you know, you wake up in a beige room with, uh, inexpensive artwork and you could be in Shanghai, in Dubai, in Mumbai, and you wouldn't know the difference. And you come downstairs and guess what? There's scrambled eggs and cornflakes. [00:36:00] I mean You know, again, these are hugely successful brands, so who am I to, to sort of criticize? But that's, not what we're looking for. You know, we talk a lot about a sense of place. we want you to, in our case, we actually provide our guests with what we call digital neighbourhood guides. We want you to go out and take advantage of everything that these great neighbourhoods have to offer. Uh, which is very counterintuitive. to a sort of, I'd say, a typical hotel. Um, anyway, I'm on a bit of a tangent there, but, um, you know, consistency of brand, in any business, in my mind, is, should be at the very forefront. Vincent: Yeah, I think it comes down to the brand promise that you talked about. People don't go to McDonald's for the best burger. They just know that it's consistent. They get the exact same fries, the exact same burgers. It may not be the best burger, but they'll know what they'll get. You know, whether it's in Shanghai or in Amsterdam or in Spain or in Toronto or wherever, right? so I think, I think that's wisely [00:37:00] said, Matthew. Matthew: Yeah. Thanks, Vincent. Yeah. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, not to stroke your ego too much, Matthew, but the whole idea of brand promise and consistency, though that's at the core of what Warren Buffett uses when as a barometer when he invests in a So, it's Matthew: maybe I'll figure I'll still have time to be a billionaire, Adam. I don't know. I missed the Warren Buffett, uh, ship, unfortunately. Adam Mogelonsky: you never know, right? We're with wellness. We're all young here, right? Matthew: You know, for sure. And I, you know, I think also, uh, as a young entrepreneur, do something you love and we've, we've all heard it and seen it and read it. but if you don't believe in it and you, you know, to your core, if you don't believe in it, then find something else truly. because otherwise you will spend the rest of your days really having to work. And, uh, you know, being an entrepreneur, particularly in 2024, it's not easy. It's a grind. [00:38:00] And, you know, there are more bad days than good. I'll be completely honest. It's tough. you know, raising capital continually, dealing with all the various constraints and fiscal restraints and otherwise. So, if you don't enjoy the work you're doing on top of it all, uh, you know, it's time for a change. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Matthew, that's a fantastic place to end it on a very, very profound lesson for young entrepreneurs, as well as a timeless lesson in so far as brand promise and consistency. Thank you for coming on the show. Matthew: Thanks for having me, Adam, Vincent. Yeah, real pleasure. Thank you. Vincent: Thanks, Matthew. Adam Mogelonsky: Thanks. Thank you.