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The Courage to Be Your Authentic Self (with Jeni Voss) · The Daily Writer

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: We become artists for a variety of reasons.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Many of us, and perhaps even most of us, are drawn to the stage because we want to escape from ourselves.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: But what if becoming an artist was all about the journey to discover your authentic self?
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Today's guest shares her fascinating story through music, recovery, faith, and the creative arts in the pursuit of discovering her true self.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: So stay tuned.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Hey friends, welcome to the Born to Create Podcast.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Kent Sanders, and I'm an author, professor, and creative coach.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: This is the show where we explore the mindset, habits, and principles to help you make a bigger impact in your life and creative work.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm thrilled to bring you this conversation with my good friend Jenny Voss, who is the lead singer of That 80s Band, a fantastic group based here in St.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Louis.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Jenny has quite a story to share, and I have to say this was one of my favorite podcast interviews ever.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: As you hear Jenny's story, you'll be inspired by her pursuit of an authentic life through a variety of creative and community experiences.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: And if you want to take a deeper dive after the episode's over, be sure to check out our show notes at Kent Sanders.net slash courage.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's Kent Sanders.net slash courage.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's get right into the interview.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: I am here with Miss Jenny Voss.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the podcast.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: We are recording in kind of an odd location.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: We are actually in the basement of the admin building at the church where we go to Harvester Christian Church in St.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Charles, Missouri.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh really fun to be here with you.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: We've been looking forward to this for a while, so thanks again.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm happy to be here.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: I am a podcast geek, so to be interviewed on a podcast is like on the bucket list.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, maybe you'll be starting your own before too long.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: I hope so.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to start out with your work with That 80s Band, which is uh a band here in St.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Louis.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: And for those of you those of you who are listening, if you've never heard of that 80s band, I'll have links in the show notes to your site and some of your music and whatnot.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: So give us a story of how you formed this 80s band and kind of um what your journey is with music with the group.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I actually started um playing music or entertaining professionally when I was 15 years old.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was in a group called the Pat Holtz Singers, and they're well known throughout um St.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Charles.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um and there was an opportunity to do some dinner theater at uh used to be a western town, Poco Loco, um, for those of you who've lived in the area for a very long time.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so I got to do uh dinner theater.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: It was my first paying job.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um I went on to perform in a group uh called the Connection, and then of course the adult group, the Pathold Singers, and then uh met a lot of great people through that.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um one of my friends, um Heather, she and I started playing in coffee houses in the late 90s, because that's what the cool thing was.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's still the cool thing.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: It is, it's come back around.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um and we ended up um getting a guy to play Kungas, Jeremy Miller, and um uh we wanted to go on an overseas tour, uh Department of Defense overseas tour and entertain the troop entertain the troops, excuse me.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: And uh needed a bass player.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: So uh we found uh Rich Ellington and uh went on this tour together for um about three weeks or so to the Middle East.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: And when we got back, um Rich was in a in a band and looking for a female singer and said, Hey, why don't you audition?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I did um got into a band and we called ourselves Radiogram.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: So this was probably about um 2000, 2001.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um Radiogram played for a few years, and then uh we lost the guitar player to an original project, and um, and really we were just looking to um to do something fun, to do something more showy, to do something more interesting than just play um cover music.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: And and so we asked our um agent, our booking agent, um Dave Cowles with American Bands, um, hey, what are clients asking for?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, I get a lot of requests for 80s party bands, and I don't have any 80s party bands to offer.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: So this was probably uh like September of 2003.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um so um we it was Rich and um Steve, who was the uh keyboard player in Radiogram.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: We had uh Francis Gomez and we didn't have a guitar player, had had a guy, but he didn't work out.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh Rich called up Dave Evans and said, Hey, you want to be in an 80s band?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: So for so we started to rehearse um every weekend, every Saturday or Sunday afternoon.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: And um actually let me back up.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: We needed songs to rehearse first, so we sat around for a couple weekends just naming 80s songs.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna ask how you picked your songs.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we um had an A list, a B list, and probably a C list.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: And we just went down the line and and we we had this rule.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: We said, you know, we're only gonna play one song by any certain artist.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: So we're not gonna play like two Cindy Lauper songs.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: So um, and we'd we'd look at uh like the top 40 charts of of specific gears, and so we had probably like 300 songs to narrow down to like 45, 50 songs.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: So there was a lot of um we'd flip bottle caps if we couldn't decide.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought this was such a scientific process.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's totally scientific.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so there was a lot of bottle cap flipping.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then we had our initial set list, sort of played some of those songs in our radiogram sets just to kind of rehearse them and get familiar with them.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I started noticing that that people would hear 80s songs and they're like, they would stop and they're like, wow, I haven't heard that in a long time, because people just weren't playing those songs um in the early 2000s.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was really cool.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then um then we played our first official show at the duck room at Blueberry Hill in uh February of 2004.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and from there it's just grown and evolved.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we didn't start dressing up.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we dressed up a little bit, but we didn't start wearing the the wigs until almost a year into it.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: I I thought, you know, we need to be more theatrical.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: We need to be bigger.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: The 80s were big.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: So they were big.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: The hair, the guitars, the drums, everything.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I was working full time, didn't have time to do my hair, so I thought this is easy, just get a wig.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: What is your most requested song that you guys do?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um people still like to request Brown Eyed Girl.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm kidding.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: No, they really do.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: And we're like, no, we're an 80s fan.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um Yeah.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: They don't realize that's not an 80s song.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Probably um probably Jesse's Girl is still.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's so iconic, um, footloose, sweet child of mine.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: Those are probably top three.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: What is your personal favorite song to perform?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think right now it's um either I wanna dance with somebody or How Will I Know?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because um I never thought I'd be able to sing Whitney Houston, and it's something that really stretches me and and makes me use my technique.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I could see that.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: She was an amazing vocalist, so even pretending that song is I mean, that's you gotta you gotta have like some real confidence to tackle her stuff.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, for sure, for sure.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I've definitely had, you know, a good decade and a half to to build that confidence.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Just go for it.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: So do you regularly put new songs into your sets, like and switch them out, or do you pretty much have a set list that you that you use most of most of your concerts?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, after after such a long time, we've figured out what songs are are slam dunks every time.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really the goal is to just keep people on the dance floor all night, and really every song should be a slam dunk song.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: So as my bass player says, um Jeff, if if they start scattering, you know, it's time to dump that song.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: So and it's interesting because certain songs work better in certain clubs.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: So kind of depending on the audience, uh, depending on the club we're playing, I'll vary the set list a little bit, just thinking about, you know, how what is the kind of the pattern of the night?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: Is the biggest crowd in the second set or the third set?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Are more people there, you know, at the beginning that we want to keep there, or do they start trickling in in the in the middle of the second set?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I just gotta think about those things.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: And or is it a family show and is it a festival?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like who is the audience, you know?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: How do you keep your personal interest level up when you're you're doing the same songs over and over and over again?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: How do you keep that interesting for yourself and engaging?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I always look at it, and and actually Dave and I, the guitar player and I talk about this a lot.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we are always in competition with ourselves.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um I always want to outdo myself on a particular song.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Or or maybe um I've been singing like hit me with your best shot for years, and I haven't really listened to the song in a long time.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so I've gotten into some some weird habits, and then I hear the song, and I'm like, oh, I didn't realize she did that on that part.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna try it that way next time.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: I guess you've got your version, I guess so.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: I yeah, I really do.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: So let's switch gears for a little bit.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one thing that I was really surprised to learn, this has been a couple years ago.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: So you came to where I work, St.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Louis Christian College, and helped to lead a workshop based around Celebrate Recovery.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: This is for some workshops that we were doing for students.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: And until I and I forget who it was here at the church who sort of connected me with you for for that specific thing, but I was really surprised because I had no idea that you were involved in that.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I basically knew you as, hey, that's the lead singer of that 80s band.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I just thought that was really, really cool.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that CR is a really important part of your life, so I'd love to hear your story of why that is an important part of your life, um, your journey working with Celebrate Recovery and just kind of what that what that means to you overall.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, well, i I started attending Celebrate Recovery in June of 2013.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: And um I'd been married for about six months.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: I had left my day job of 12 years to pursue music full-time, and I was just kind of just kind of lost.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd I'd heard about Celebrate Recovery um through our worship ministry.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one of the uh ministry leaders, Sheila, at the time, um, she was in the worship arts department.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: We ran cameras together and I always heard her talking about it, and I thought, wow, I've I've dealt with a lot of depression and anxiety and been to counseling, and maybe I have something to offer celebrate recovery.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I prayed about it.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it was the mentality of maybe I can be useful there at Celebrate Recovery.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and uh Sheila um saw my worship team audition and said, Hey, would you come and lead worship for us?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I was terrified because I was new to modern worship.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'd I'd seen um, you know, worship here at Harvester.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, really, that's all I'd had known.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: And and so, and I wasn't comfortable playing guitar and singing by myself.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought, okay, God, you know, challenge accepted, here we go.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I was terrified um that first night.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: And um I thought, man, I gotta be, you know, really somber and and it's gonna be a really sad place, and people are just really struggling, and it's just don't everybody's coming and dragging off the ground.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: And just the opposite was true.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I ended up attending the women's small share group that night, and um I thought, wow, I actually need to be here because there's really a lot that I have not dealt with.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: I have been um living out a tolerable recovery, but I realized I was still living in a lot of fear and depression and anxiety.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I should go.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: You should, everybody should.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: I've had multiple people uh uh literally the past few months just it would just randomly come up in conversation and I thought, okay, maybe God's trying to tell me something here.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like what do what do I what am I not seeing here?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: So but I've heard a lot of people say that it's I've heard people describe celebrate recovery as this is what church should be like.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: What do what do they mean by that when people say that?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: I I think um for one, we're very fortunate at at our St.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Charles campus that we have a lot of authentic people who come to celebrate recovery.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I always say you don't have to come here and put your church face on.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: If you've had a bad day, this is the one place where you can say, I've had a bad day, or you can come in crying and you're gonna get people who will come up to you and and just you know hug you or just say, Hey, tell me about your day, what's going on, or let's go sit and talk, or let's go, let's go pray.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, kind of a safe space.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very safe space.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: And if i if someone asks you, how are you, most of the time we do mean it.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: So unless we're in the middle of something.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just making that casual conversation.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: But but we we are authentically concerned because man, we've all we've all been there.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Every all of your leaders there at our St.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Charles campus, they have they have fascinating stories.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: They've all hit rock bottom and and so so they know what it's like to to come in and just you know, have had that bad day, and you just don't want to you don't want people to see you, yeah.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you want to wear that false self, but you know, sometimes it takes a lot of energy to do that.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is a place where you can just remove that false self and come in and be real.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: So how can we do that more in our everyday lives?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, in our everyday church activities, families, is there a way, like in your own life, that you have discovered some ways to be more authentic and transparent with people that's not within the context of celebrate recovery?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think it starts with a choice, really.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I have to choose to be my authentic self, um, which means um I've always struggled with saying no to people without feeling bad about it.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I had to, I had to practice that.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: I had to get to a place where I felt comfortable, you know, saying no to someone.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and I would I would catch myself being fake, like you know, if I'm at a store or something, and and I would I would critique myself and be like, no, you weren't really authentic, you know, there.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, let's be, let's bring it down, let's be a little bit more warm and inviting.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: So just practice.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: You make a choice, and then you just you just gotta practice.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, uh there's a step called or a lesson called daily inventory.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, where you you take each day um and you think at the end of the day, like what you know, was I being authentic or or whatever it is you you want to work on.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: So that would that would be my thing.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Was was I being my authentic self today?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Where did I what did I do right?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: What did I do wrong?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I'd I learned patterns from that.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's interesting that here in this conversation, and I mentioned before we recorded that, you know, most of the time when I do these podcast interviews, there's a thread, at least in my mind, of okay, here's a topic we're gonna sort of focus on.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: And we may go off track a little bit, but basically we're honing in on this this one thing.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: But there were like three or four things that I thought, okay, when I talk to Ginny, I want to explore these things and things that were important to you.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Something that that kind of just struck me is I wonder if this whole idea of being on stage, and I'm not saying for you uh specifically, but I mean for all of us, the idea that that all of us are kind of on stage where almost pretending to be someone else, and that's that's almost like a metaphor for how we live our lives sometimes is we're trying to please other people.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: We're I have no idea where I'm going with this question, by the way.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm probably gonna edit this out, but I know what you're saying because uh part of my struggle when I came to celebrate recovery was I and and the insanity of my life before I came to celebrate recovery was I spent so much time and energy trying to make myself acceptable to myself so that other people would accept me.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's insane.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Think of all the think of everything you miss in in trying to do that and just the beauty of life you miss because you're so worried about how I look, how I dress, you know, what I drive, you know, what I sound like when I when I talk or sing, or you know, think think about that.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's that just those are energy drainers, really.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think I I think it just kind of occurred to me as you're talking about your work with with that 80s band, that all of us do this in so many ways.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like like your profession is you're playing a role, you're on stage, you're singing songs that people love, and and I love all that stuff too.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: I love 80s music.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: I I know I've been a good parent because my son knows all the 80s music.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I've succeeded in my parental responsibility.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I think we all tend to do that.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe those of us who who live sort of artistic lives, maybe we are even more prone to do that.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: And into this idea of we're gonna kind of play a role for people and put on the mask and and put on our outfits and sort of pretend to be someone that we think other people want us to be.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that that's such an interesting sort of dynamic in your life where you have that 80s band, but then the celebrate recovery, and it it's almost like that to me is a really interesting um comparison is not the word I'm looking for, but it's just I don't even know what I'm trying to say with this.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it's interesting to me.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: It is interesting in that um as I became more comfortable in my own skin because of celebrate recovery and more confident because of my relationship with Jesus Christ, um, it changed the way that I interacted with the audience.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's really fascinating to me.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: It changed the way I interacted with people.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: I actually take an interest in people.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, people I I I actually love people now, and I like to get to know, you know, the the audience and the person who comes out and and sees us.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I've I've um met some fascinating people and and be have become really good friends um with people and I've seen you know what Christ has done in their lives too, and and it it's it's just been really, really cool.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like it's come full circle for you in a way, where now when you're quote unquote playing a role, you can actually feel free to be your authentic self.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's changed the way I I sing, it's it's it yeah, it's it's changed everything, and I'm I'm definitely more um relaxed up there.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: I I think the energy is still there, but it's not that nervous energy like it was.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's actual I am I am excited to be here and I want to draw you into what we're doing, and I want you to be a part of this.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: So you mentioned in your email to me, and I'm just quoting from your email, you said apologetics still excites me.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I was really intrigued by that because you know, celebrate recovery, 80s music, apologetics, these are things that don't normally go together.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really interested in your in your interest in apologetics and kind of sharing a little bit about what that means to you.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um when I started coming back to my faith and and really coming back to Christ and and um really um reading my Bible again and um I I noticed that I still wanted more than just the average weekend church service.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um I wanted to go a little bit deeper because I've always been the type of person um to to think about things, the why and the what and the how and the logic and the reason and and and why do I believe what I believe?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um I've got a lot of different friends with a lot of different worldviews.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: And how do I explain to them why I believe what I believe and why it makes sense, you know, when he tested against logic and reason and reality and and I and I didn't know how to to explain myself.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I came up on a podcast.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: A podcast, of course, of course, because they're the best.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, of course, um, called Let My People Think.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's R Z I M Ministries and Robbie Zacharias.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: And he's awesome.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: He is just so wonderful.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so um so for several years I would listen to his weekly podcast, and I have probably three notebooks full of notes um of of just things I've I've learned from him, and it really helped me to to better explain myself, give that reason why I believe what I believe.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that is amazing.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: I remember last year when you were in a class that I taught here at the church, just a uh introduction to the Bible, survey of the Bible course.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: And there were a couple weeks where you you would bring me these like really thick books on, I forget what the exact topics were, but it was like I think one had something to do with archaeology and some other things, and I was like, wow, you know, this is really cool.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're a super deep thinker, you know.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Not that I didn't think you were, but but it was unusual for somebody to have these kind of books already in their personal library, which I thought was was amazing.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really cool.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: And and I stumbled upon those books from other podcasts.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, naturally.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, um, I I do.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: I am I am a a big geek, um, obviously.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, I love to think, I love to learn about the world around me, and I love to learn about other people's stories and where they come from and and cultures, and yeah, I'm just a just a big just a big geek.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I guess that comes because I I love I love people.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, how has that helped you in your work with that 80s band?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you're all over St.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Louis in clubs interacting with all different kinds of people.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you n wouldn't normally think of 80s music and apologetics as being things I put.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: But in your case, they absolutely would because you're interacting with these people and sharing your faith in ways that that are appropriate to the setting and in your way and in your style.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: So talk a little bit about how apologetics actually uh goes with your work with that AIDS band.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: It it I probably use it most when um dealing with booking agents.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Just kidding, guys.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um I wow, it it's it's really it's really hard to explain.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I suppose um I I think of my my one uh really good friend who she just started um coming out to see the band and and she was and and she's been a Christian for for all of her life, but also very intelligent girl.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: And we became friends and we were just kind of like, you know, never really had any deep conversations, but just kind of we'd go hang out, we'd have our lunches and go to Six Flags and stuff like that.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: And and I remember one day just opening up to her about a little bit about my testimony, which got her to open up about her testimony.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: And and now she is is has kind of looked into her own life and she's like, Man, I got some stuff going on, you know, that I don't I've got some struggles that I don't like.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so she's beginning to to work on those struggles.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, so you know, there's someone who's gone from a fan to a friend to someone who is actually growing deeper in in her faith because I I've just allowed God to do that on that platform.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: There's an there's another story uh about a guy um um the guitar player and I met at a at a casino club, and he told us, he goes, I've got six months to live, and I'm terrified, and I just wanted to come see you guys, you know.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so come to find out, uh guitar player Dave had prayed with him, and then I also prayed with him.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: So we're in the middle of a casino club and we're praying for this guy, um, praying with this guy.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then um about a year later, um, I was checking out of my hotel in um Cape Girardeau, that's where this um casino is, and I ran into um this guy's aunt.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: She goes, What band are you in?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: And and I told her, she goes, My nephew loves your band.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Oh, wow, you know, and and so she told me um, you know, he was the one who had six months to live, and you all prayed for him.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd given him a bracelet that said God is greater than, and she goes, and he still wears that bracelet.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: So he's still, and I and I see her every now and then, and he's still alive, he's still doing well.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: So so just stuff like that.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's very encouraging.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: I figure God's given me this platform, uh, this is how I'm gonna use it.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a ministry.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, many, many times we coming in kind of out of the church world, we think, well, these things are a ministry, you know, with a capital M because they take place either under the guise of a Bible study or worship service or something.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: But wow, you're you're reaching and and ministering to and serving people that that many of us would would never be able to reach just because of the specific and unique thing that you do.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's really cool.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, something um that was always a dream of mine.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, I man, I want to be able to reach people.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have the tools or really uh the the know-how to, and and so that's something that you know that 80s band's given me the platform.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Celebrate recovery has given me the the tools, um, and also the Merrilled Institute as well.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Give a little props to Don Sanders for the Merrill Institute.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: But he is my older brother, so I absolutely don't want to give him too many props.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: So all right, a little mention.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: So you mentioned a few minutes ago about how you really love people.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's obvious you really have a heart for people.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: How does somebody develop that if they don't have a heart for people?
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, because there are some people, and you probably know some as well, and and I do, certainly, and and sometimes I even feel like this, I just confess, where you just think, I just want to be alone.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I can't stand people.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: I just sometimes your fuse just gets really, really short.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: How can somebody expand their heart and start to love people more and develop more compassion and empathy?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I think um again, it starts with a choice.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I I want to choose to to love people more.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think we also have to look into our own lives and um just see how evil our our own hearts are before we can really uh appreciate, you know, uh other people.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and when we're put in an environment um like a like a celebrate recovery or a um you know a ministry where you know you're shown God's grace and you you have a safe environment to to look at yourself in the mirror and go, you know, I'm not who I thought I was, you know, and and and allow yourself to be remade um into who God wants you to be.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I I think that um that that's a big part of that.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I know how wicked I've been and um and how how much grace God has given me, and I I owe that to another person.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, great point.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's that's something that keeps me going.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm also one of the biggest introverts you're ever gonna meet.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: I would never have guessed that.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: I I am, and um in fact I've been saving all my words today because I knew I'd be talking.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: I understand what you mean.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Keith Nelson, for that joke.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um anyway, but there are some people I I've noticed who um love people but only the people who they really know well.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that's great, and they love them well, and they don't care about, you know, total strangers.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that's and that's that's fine.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I I've just always been interested in in in total strangers and people's stories.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I I look at how Jesus um dealt with with people.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, he'd he'd go out and and he'd teach and he'd preach and um but then he'd withdraw from from the crowds.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you see that pattern over and over again.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: And he had his very close, you know, circle of of friends and disciples, and you know, then he would also withdraw from them and and and get refreshed.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's important.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I I really I really have to take time every day, um, and I usually take the time in the morning to have that devotion time, prayer time, usually about an hour, um, and just and just sit and and talk talk with God or or pray or read devotional or or listen to a podcast like RZIM and and have that refreshment time.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what allows me to go out and have that the energy um and and and be interested in in other people as well.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: Something else that you mentioned in your email was you also said I'd like to talk a little about where I've been, the projects I've worked on, and people I've met who have inspired me or through whom I learned what not to do.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I would love to hear what you meant by that.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: So while I'm you know playing in that 80s van, going to school to get my degree and working full time, that's not enough.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: I was a single girl.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I like to keep learning.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: So um I uh I and I always wanted to get into to film, and you know, that was another passion of mine.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: So had an opportunity to to to do a do a horror movie, and um and that was that was fun.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: I always wanted to be in a B movie, B movie, and this was totally I mean, this was B movie, and uh um never really went anywhere other than Amazon, and that's that's fine.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: But I've met so many wonderful people in that project.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um there was, I mean, it was a wreck.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: Our our our um sound and video editor had a hearing problem.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean that's not good.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and and great, great, great guy, but it's like um there might be a problem.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: Perhaps.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but so I really learned, you know, what to do.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: I learned what not to do through that process.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and again, just met great people, met lifelong friends um who are also writers and actors and have gone on to do wonderful things and dabbled in the horror movie industry a little bit and met some some you know some famous people from from that genre.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I learned just wow how how whacked out the horror industry can be and how much fun it can be.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Sort of by definition, yeah.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um I met met uh a wonderful author and and actor, Stu Charno, and uh um just had some great conversations with him, got to meet uh you know a composer um through doing horror movies, uh Harry Manfredini.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um and he's actually from Illinois.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um was a nervous wreck around him, but just had the best time talking with him.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um I took acting classes um through the commercial actors studio, uh Brian Cutler, and and he um he's so interesting in his approach to to acting.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: He tells his students to read aloud, um do cold reading like half hour a day, and he recommends either reading Shakespeare or the Bible.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: So he disciples his students while he's teaching acting.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um and just a just a great guy.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I learned improv um through uh the improv trick, Bill Cott, who's a well-known um actor.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um he was on uh uh TV show Wizards of Waverly Place.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um written for Saturday Night Live and and other um you know Nickelodeon cartoons and things like that.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so um just I I try to just um you know, whoever I'm put in front of, just what can I learn from this person?
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I've I feel like I've been so fortunate um to be able to be put in front of so many wonderful people who are maybe they're not you know the Brad Pitt, but they are working in their field and and they are making a living.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where I want to be.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of people like that.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: They're not superstars or maybe you know have their names on huge billboards, but they're they're working, they're doing their art, whatever that that is, and doing something they love and contributing to movies or you know, TV shows or music or whatever it is.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: Joe uh Loche, um who is uh a voiceover um teacher, but he's also done uh audiobooks for like veggie tales and and and other things.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like I can reach out to any of these people at any time and uh and get advice.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: That is so cool.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's awesome.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: So have you considered pursuing your acting chops like in any other realms in the future?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: I would still love to do that um if if I could clone myself.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and I really tried um to take a stab at it a few years ago.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um but what's been really cool is um that 80s band's been working so much, so steadily, nonstop.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: So why kill that?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's working or having fun.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: In order to do what I need to do to get my acting chops up.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, actors are constantly taking classes and honing honing their skills, and I really I just don't have the time to do that.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: So would you have to move to LA to do that?
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't think so.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um St.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: Louis, Kansas City has a really good um uh industry.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: St.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: Louis is is getting better.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I hope it continues to get better.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: Me too.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of good things in St.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: Louis, and we're sort of like a flyover city to people on the coasts, which is unfortunate because there's a lot of cool things happening here.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Chicago is not the only cool city in the Midwest.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: And there are great cities in Missouri.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: Our work ethic is amazing.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: I love mid the Midwest vibe, and people are just kind of chilled out and friendly and the arch.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: We've got Emo's Pizza, we've got White Castle, and we're hello, you'll let's not tell us.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: We got toasted ravioli, you will not starve.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's very true.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's very true.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let me shoot a couple other things your way here.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh before we start to wind this down.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: You made a statement that I thought was really intriguing.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: You said uh this is in your email to me, you said it took me a long time to learn that my vocation is not who I am.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: What did you mean by that?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so so many of us identify with what we do.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um for instance, um, you know, my husband, um, hi, I'm you know, I'm Doug, and I'm I'm an electrical engineer, or you know, hi, I'm Jenny, I'm lead vocalist for that 80s band, and or you know, I'm you know, a doctor of you know, biology, whatever.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I really thought, wow, there's really no future in Jenny Voss, lead singer of that 80s band.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because what happens when I get too old to uh you know perform?
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um then you have that 90s band.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: What happens when when that goes away?
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that really scared me.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: And and so what I had to learn was um I need to get my identity from something else.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: And um that something else is is Jesus Christ.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: So who does Jesus say that I am?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm I'm a child of God and and I'm loved and I'm forgiven.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: And and so that's what that's how I live my life.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: That is um that's who I identify as.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was talking with somebody actually earlier today about this exact issue about how sometimes when you move when you've been in a profession or a field a long time and you move out of that field, that it's really hard because your whole self-worth is wrapped up in that thing that you do.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that can be a hard transition.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: So wow, that's such a great message that our identity is in Christ, it's not in some job or position or role or something like that.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: And no one can take that away from you.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: You can move vocations, exactly.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: No one will take that away.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: What is one habit or practice in your life that you feel like has really helped to contribute to your success over the years?
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: Persistence.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, wanting to give up and um but being too angry and stubborn to to give up.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh, you know, my acting teacher had a very um good story about Harrison Ford.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he was a he was a struggling actor out on the West Coast, went out west with a couple of friends and and uh did odd jobs and and you know, his friends ran out of money and and hopped on the train back home.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: And Harrison Ford didn't get back on that train.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really stuck with me.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: Don't get back on that train, just do what you gotta do to be able to do your art.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: That one pivotal moment makes such a big difference.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: He was in a little independent movie called Star Wars that didn't really go anywhere.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see if anything ever happens with that.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, maybe a franchise.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe Disney will be interested in it one day.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, probably not.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: Probably not.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, probably not.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Jenny, thanks so much for being on the show today.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: This has been a lot of fun.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: I've been looking forward to this interview for a long time.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: Where can our listeners get in touch with you and your work with that 80s band?
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: So um we have a website, um, that80sbandstl.com.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you can also find us on Facebook.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: We actually have two Facebook pages.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: One is spelled That 80s Band E-I-G-H-T-I-E-S.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: And the other, I I think if you put in um 80s band S T L, that will pull up the other page.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: And um I I try to keep our schedule on that.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I do have um one song on iTunes that I recorded about 10 years ago.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, if if I can you know push some downloads, you know, go to iTunes.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's under Jenny Harris.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's called Shattered, and it was a song I wrote for a movie called Ghost Image.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: Very cool.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks so much.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: This has been a lot of fun.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Jenny Boss.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: At the end of every interview, I always share three specific things that I learned, and these are key action steps that you can put into practice right away to start making a bigger impact in your life and creative work.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: So let's dive in.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: Takeaway number one, lean into your community instead of running away from it.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: One of the big themes in our conversation was how community plays such a key role in our development as artists, and also just as mature people in general.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I've heard the phrase this is what the church should be like.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: Whenever people have talked about the Celebrate Recovery Program, you know, it's really easy to run away from community, especially when you're an introvert just like I am.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I've really discovered the wisdom of Jenny's emphasis on community the last couple of years in my own life.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: We have to run toward relationships with other people who can help us, not run away from them.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: Takeaway number two appreciate and learn from the variety of experiences you've had in life.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's really easy to devalue the experiences, jobs, or situations that don't seem directly related to our success or to the direction that we want to go in life.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: But Jenny talked about several situations that although they weren't necessarily successful in the traditional sense, they still gave her the chance to meet key people who would influence her life in a variety of different ways.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm fascinated by the variety of experiences Jenny talked about.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: The Merrill Institute at our church, which is a Bible institute, celebrate recovery, that eighties band, being involved in improv and filmmaking, her interest in apologetics.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, those none of those things have anything in common with each other really, but all those things have shaped her in a variety of ways.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that's true for me and that's true for you as well.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: None of us are just one thing.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: Now you may identify as, you know, a writer or you're a singer or you're a painter or you're something else, but none of us are just that one thing.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: We are complex individuals and we can all learn from the people and situations we have encountered in our lives even if they don't seem directly related to our chosen field or to the creative work that we spend the most time on.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I think that's a hallmark of a truly creative person is someone who just doesn't study one specific thing or they just don't get stuck in one particular rut.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: The most creative people in the world and the most creative people in history are those who have drawn from a variety of fields and a variety of experiences that don't seem connected to one another, and then they have drawn connections and created something entirely new and innovative out of those connections.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: So keep that in mind.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: Then finally, takeaway number three don't give up.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was struck that Ginny immediately answered with the word persistence when I asked about a single habit that made the most impact in her life.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: She mentioned a story about the actor Harrison Ford not getting on the train and going back home with his friends when he was given the opportunity to quit pursuing his acting dream.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: And of course the rest is history, and you know, maybe someday we'll see Harrison Ford do all right in a movie.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: If he keeps trying, maybe someday he'll make something of himself.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when things get tough, we're tempted to give up.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: People only see the end product of our art, not all the work that we put in during our early mornings or late nights or during those lunch breaks.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: But that's what it takes to keep being successful.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: So don't give up.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: Keep going, keep learning, keep moving, and keep refining your craft and making strides day by day by day.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it feels like a grind.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: As I sit here recording this uh script, if you will, for this podcast, it feels like a grind a little bit, to be honest with you, because I'm doing like ten of these episodes in one shot.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: But this is what it takes to get this show out and hopefully make it something that is successful and something that people enjoy doing.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: You have to just simply as I say sometimes, just sit here behind in the chair and do the work.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it does feel like a grind, but that's what it requires to achieve that end product of something that's finished, whether it's a performance or a book or you know, a blog post or a podcast or uh whatever it is that you're working on.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's what it takes.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: So don't give up if you believe in what you're doing, even though sometimes it can definitely feel like a grind.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, hey friends, that wraps up this episode of the podcast.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: I want to thank Ginny Voss for taking the time out of her very busy schedule to share in this amazing conversation.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: You can find the show notes at Kent Sanders.net slash courage.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: If you'd like a great resource to help you save time and be more productive, you can download my free guide, 21 Time Hacks for Writers, by visiting KentSanders.net slash subscribe.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: It only takes a couple seconds and it helps other people to discover the show.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: You can subscribe as well as leave a rating and review by visiting KentSanders.net slash Apple.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: Here's a recent review on iTunes left by my friend Karen Briscoe.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: She writes, Born to Create is inspiration and information that transforms.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: Kent Sanders and his guests share insights and time hacks on how to be more productive and creative, expand time and creative endeavors, and feel as I have more purpose and meaning in my life and work.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: You too can achieve a higher level of success in your life.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: Karen Briscoe author and podcast host of Five Minutes to Success.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Karen, for that awesome review.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: And finally, if you enjoyed this episode, please consider sharing it with a friend or a family member who you think would benefit from it.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: You can find lots more resources to help you unlock your creative potential at KentSanders.net.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, remember that you were born to create and designed to make a difference.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now go create something awesome!