Latest / The Breakfast Club / INTERVIEW: Piers Morgan On Royal Family 'Racism', Trump's Trajectory, Biden's Disintegration, Israel + More

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INTERVIEW: Piers Morgan On Royal Family 'Racism', Trump's Trajectory, Biden's Disintegration, Israel + More · The Breakfast Club

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Wake that answer up in the morning.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: Breakfast Club Morning, everybody is DJ Envy, Charlomagne the guy.
• 0:08
  Speaker 3: We are the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest
• 0:09
  Speaker 3: joining us this morning. We got Peers Morgan. Welcome, Thank you.
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: How are you doing this morning.
• 0:14
  Speaker 4: It's good to be here. I'm a little bit apprehensive
• 0:16
  Speaker 4: because I messaged my sons to tell me the big
• 0:19
  Speaker 4: news I was coming on, and well, my middle boy
• 0:22
  Speaker 4: is a big fan of the show, and he said
• 0:23
  Speaker 4: that you gotta be carefully. He said, Charlemagne is a
• 0:26
  Speaker 4: bit of a menace. And I went and then I
• 0:29
  Speaker 4: didn't reply, and he then paused and then replied again,
• 0:32
  Speaker 4: actually so used so she could be fining. You shouldn't reply.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: You got to be friends, should reply back.
• 0:37
  Speaker 5: Do you know who your father is? You know what
• 0:41
  Speaker 5: I wanted to always ask you know, and reference to
• 0:43
  Speaker 5: that I heard you say once you were hired to
• 0:45
  Speaker 5: be controversial when you got the gig at ITV. So
• 0:49
  Speaker 5: is my question is Peers Morgan actually controversial or is
• 0:53
  Speaker 5: it just performative?
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: Well, I don't wake up in the morning and start
• 0:57
  Speaker 4: screaming at my family about the state of my my
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: marmte on toast, but I am, by nature very opinionated.
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: I've encouraged my four kids, who range from twelve to thirty,
• 1:08
  Speaker 4: to have opinions about everything. I'ither if you don't have opinions,
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: you have a lazy mind. I always believe the things
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: I say at the time I say them. I'm happy
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: to change my view if somebody gives me a compelling
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: argument for why I'm wrong. I have no problem saying,
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: you know what, you have a point, I'm changing my perspective.
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: But yeah, look, am I controversial? I often take issue
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: with that because I don't actually think my views of
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: that controversial. I actually think that they're controversial if you
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: only judge my opinions by what Twitter now x says.
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: But then eighty percent of the public are not on
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: twitter x. Eighty percent of the public aren't on social
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: media at all. And when I walk around the streets,
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: whether it's in New York or LA or it's London
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: or wherever it may be, Sidney, Australia, I get a
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: very different reaction to the one that I get on
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: on the social media platforms where people go everything you
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: say is outrageous. Well, actually it's not. I think I
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: have reasonably popular views which a lot of people subscribe to.
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: I don't I think a bit like you. I don't
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: know your politics, but I think like you. I don't
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: identify as as left or right. I think I'd like
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: to go after everybody, examine their opinions, challenge them, and
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: I think that's the way you should be if you're
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: in our game. So I don't like to be identified
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: into a box about anything so that I look am
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: I controversial? I say things forcefully. I expressed my opinions forcefully.
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: I don't think that's controversial.
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: People.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: For people that don't know who Peers Morgan is and
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: how you got into this is there anybody.
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: And then you know, don't.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Know how you got into this entertainment world? Break down,
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: how you got into this world, how you started off
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: at the sun, and what made you follow this path?
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: Well, I was from the very early age, like six
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: or seven. My mum remembers me reading newspapers avidly, and
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: in Britain, the national newspaper culture is very big. We
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: have about thirteen national newspapers, very unusual. Obviously we're a
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: very small island by comparison to the United States, but
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: it means that the national papers have a very large
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: influence over the thinking of the people, and we have
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: a wide range of papers, left wing, right wing, centrist
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: is something for everybody. But I used to read the
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: papers avidly when I was six or seven and read
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: out stories to it, so I had this thing in
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: my blood. Had a few journalists in the family. I
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: just wanted to be a journalist, and I ended up
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: going to journalism college, ended up going on local newspapers
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: doing all the flower shows, the weddings, you know, all
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: the boring stuff but important because it teaches you the
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: craft of reporting. And then I got onto The Sun,
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: which was at the time the biggest selling tabloid newspaper
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: in Britain. In fact, I think it was in the
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: world at the time, and I very quickly became the
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: show business editor, doing a column called Bizarre, which basically
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: did what it said on the tin. It covered the
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: bizarre world of entertainment. It was a great gig. It
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: was a time when newspapers sold huge amounts. My son
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: sold over four million copies a day and was read
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: by about eleven to twelve million, so huge audience. And
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: my job was to go around the world in very
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: nice conditions and interview the world's most famous people and
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: to cover what they got up to. And I really
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: enjoyed it. Did it for five years, and then Rupert Murdoch,
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: who owned The Sun, he flew me to a beach
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: in Miami. I walked along the beach with him for
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: three hours. I had no idea what I was doing there.
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: I was twenty seven years old. And the consequence of
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: that long walk along the beach was he made me
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: editor of the News of the World, which was his
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: biggest selling newspaper in the world. It was the biggest
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: sitting newspaper berl It's closed.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: Now And.
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: I took on this extraordinary job at a ridiculously young
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: age and we year with it. It was nineteen ninety four.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: That was the way before FI.
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So my whole trajectory from my youth
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: on was was to become a national newspaper journalist. And
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: I became an editor of the biggest setting papers in
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: the country at a very I was the youngest editor
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: ever of a paper there. I then moved to the
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: Daily Mirror, which was a slightly left to center newspaper
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: News of the World with slightly writer's center. So going
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: back to what I said earlier, I can. I never
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: park myself into either box really politically, and I did
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: that for nearly ten years competing against Rupert Murdock. So
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: I had the benefit of working for a man I
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: considered to be a genius when it comes to the media,
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: and then competing against him. And I have to say
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: it was more fun competing against him because we were
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: the underdogs. We had less money, less staff, less resource.
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: I found that a brilliant challenge and then I got fired.
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: It was a huge scandal in the UK. The Iraq
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: War was raging. I had taken the papers position as
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: anti war very aggressively. Tony Blair was the Prime Minister
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: in the UK and we were the labor supporting newspaper historically,
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: but I went against him on the war, and I
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: think I've been vindicated by subsequent events. I felt was
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: an illegal conflict. What complicated it more for me was
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: my own brother, who was an army officer in the
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: Royal Regiment of Wales, actually went on the front line
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: in Basra in Iraq at the same time that I
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: was opposing the war. So for my family it was
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: a very complex situation. As you can imagine, but I
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: got fired because we got some pictures. You may remember
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: the Abu Grabe pictures which came out of American troops
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: abusing Iraqi civilians. They were horrific and we were passed
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: some pictures not as bad, but they were pretty awful,
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: and we published them and it was said they were faked.
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: I've never been fully i think, confident of exactly what
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: they were. The story that they depicted was never denied,
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: is accepted as being true. It was British troops abusing
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: Iraqis civilians.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: And they retracted it all right.
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: The paper fired me and then said sorry, but I
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: didn't say sorry, and I haven't attracted it. And I
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: the more I've gleaned over the next twenty years twenty
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: years incredible. Since it happened, I've been told by many
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: people in the army that actually they might well have depicted,
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: not just depicted, a genuine incident, but the pictures themselves
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: may not have been what people were led to believe.
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: So I was thrown into the wilderness. My dream was
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: over of being a newspaper journalist. I was thirty eight.
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: I became the youngest editor to be appointed and the
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: youngest to be fired. It was a nice little win
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: win at both ends of that career. And then I
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: had lunch with a guy called Simon cow Wow, who's
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: been an old friend of mine back when no one
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: knew who he was. He was a record plugger. He
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: used to plug some terrible records and I used to
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: help him promote them.
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: Some of the plugger is like a record promoter here and.
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: Record promotes, and you know, he was an R guy
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: basically for a record company. His job was to get
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: publicity and stuff behind the records of the company, and
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: I would help him do that with my column. So
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: we'd established a little relationship which worked for me. He'd
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: give me interviews with his guys and so on. And
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: Simon Carr took me for lunch and he went, what
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: are you gonna do? I said, I have absolutely no idea.
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: We were at the Belvedere in Kensington and London, lovely restaurant.
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: He went, we said, He said, look, I'm thinking about
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: bringing back a talent show. I went, okay, I said,
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: what do you mean. He said, well, you remember the
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: old Gong show in America. He said, there's nothing like
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: it on TV anymore. There's Idol, which is a singing show,
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: and he was the biggest TV star in the world
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: at the time. On Idol, he said, but there's nothing
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: that's like all round entertainment. Any talent will do. And
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: he said, I'm going to I'm going to try and
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: do this, so long story short, he mapped out on
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: a little handkerchief in the restaurant. He mapped out what
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: you'd have. You'd have like a mother hen judge, you'd
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: have a controversial judge, you'd have a straight down middle charge,
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: you'd have a good host and they could do any talent.
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: And we then was interesting story behind it because we
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: then did a pilot for that which was called paul
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: O'Grady's Got Talent. You probably don't know who he was.
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: He died sadly recently, but he was a huge TV
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: star in the UK, very popular, and the pilot was
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: brilliant and ITV the network loved it. It was just
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: going to be my big comeback. I was frilled primetime television.
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: It's amazing as a talent show judge. And then Paula
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: Grady fell out with ITV hurled abuse out them, defected
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: to the Rivals and the show got put on the
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: back burner, and I was completely disconsolate. Theyka, what am
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: I gonna do now? And then I'll never forget. I
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: got a text from Cowl about two months later, maybe
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: even earlier, saying I've sold the rights to Got Talent
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: to NBC in America and they want to repackage it
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: as America's Got Talent and I can't be on it
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: because of Idol. And I was trying to think, who
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: do I know who's as annoying, egotistical, a in jectionable
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: and judgmental as me? And your name has immediately sprung
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: to my and I was flown to It was a
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: crazy period in my life. I was flown to La
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: Simon picked me up and he's Bentley at the airport.
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: The next day, I met with two NBC executives who'd
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: never heard of me. I had to sell myself, it said,
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: just bullshit them like you normally would, which I did
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: obviously quite as successfully, because the next thing is two
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: weeks later, I'm on the Paramount movie lot with the
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: famous Melrose Gates in La in a trailer next to
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: David Hasselhoff with Regis Philbin down the alley, and I'm
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: in this show America's got talent now. He said to me,
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: cal don't get too excited because most shows open and bomb, right,
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: So you got a kind of three and thirty chance,
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: all right, that's it. The rest just get tanked. So
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: just enjoy it, have fun. And he said, and be
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: right with your judgments eighty percent of a time. If
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: you do that, it can be as mean as you want.
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: But if you're wrong and the public at home don't
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: agree with you, the mean act doesn't play cudge right.
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: But if you if you're tough but right, and the
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: audience agrees with you, the app will fly. And we
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: recorded all the audition shows and the first night it
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: went on air, I was in the UK. He was
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: in La and he rang me and and he did
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: the full cow on me. He said, Peers, it's Simon.
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: It's it's not good news. And I went, oh no,
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: he said, it's really it's bad news, really bad. I went, oh,
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: how bad? You went it's well for me personally. He said,
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: it's as bad as it could possibly be. Wow, how
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: bad was the rate? I was like, this is okay,
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: I'm done. He went yeah, Unfortunately, it's number one in
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: the racings, which means you just became a massive star
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: of America and I feel like doctor frankenstar. And that
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: was that, and that was the start of my TV world.
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: So I did America's Got Talent for six years. Then
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: I did Celebrity Apprentice with a certain Donald Trump as host.
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: It was the first season of the celebrity version. I
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: won it.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Did he really smell? People say he have smelled?
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: No, he was always immaculate, And actually I always yeah,
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: he smelled fine. He was he was. I tell you
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: what was interesting. Someone asked the other day about this.
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: He was much more empathetic in the boardrooms for hours
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: on end than he's ever been as president. It was
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: interesting to watch he stopped that empathy val which I
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: saw a lot of in the Apprentice. I don't know
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: why it would help him. It's almost like he feels
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: you have to be this big, tough guy. If I
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: were advising him, I'd say, if you do win again,
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: bring a bit of empathy, right. People goes a long way.
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: But I ended up winning. That went back on town
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: and then as a result of all this, really what
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: I wanted to do was to do a big interview
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: show and then Larry King stepped down from CNN the
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: greatest bit of interview real estate in world television. Yeah,
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: and my late great manager, John Ferreta somehow got me
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: the gig and we celebrated the Beverly Wolf should Cut
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: restaurant with a bottle of nineteen sixty one Chatela Tour.
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: I think I paid about ten thousand dollars for it,
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: and we drank it very slow slip by very slow sip,
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: and I signed the contract which was brought to me
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: by the front desk from CNN at about midnight. And
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: that was one of the great moments of my life
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: and my manager's life, and that took the whole thing
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: full circle. Did nearly four years at CNN interviewing amazing
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: array of people, and then I came back to the
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: UK did the Breakfast Show. Just to be clear, we
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: had the most dangerous morning show in the water. Not
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: you guys, you guys, you kind of date. We were
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: properly dangerous. And then, as you may may recall the
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: Megan and Harry interview ed on Oprah Winfrey, I took
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: a view. I didn't believe a word they were saying
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: about the more serious allegations, which I think has stood
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: the test of time pretty well actually, given no evidence
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: as ever emerged and I got fired again. We'll put
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: in the position where either I should apology or I
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: lost my job. Now, at the time, we were killing
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: it in the rating. We had just beaten the BBC
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: for the first time in our show's history. We trebled
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: the ratings in five years. We were on fire. We
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: were dangerous and narcic, like anything happened. I never used
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: to look at scripts. It was just like off we
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: went every day and so it was a real shame
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: and I didn't want to leave it, but I left it,
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: and then I went back to work for my old boss,
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: Rupert Murdoch. He was watching a new network in the UK,
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: Talk TV, and my show Appeers Morgan uncensored, which was
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: what I needed to be without people making me apologize
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: to people I thought were lying for saying I don't
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: believe them. And that's where I've I've ended up and
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: I love it. It's you know we've been on are
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: It'll be two years in April. I think we found
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: ourselves a voice of being genuinely uncensored, platforming everybody, challenging everybody.
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: I love it. It airs in three Continents Australia the
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: US on Fox Nation. Here talk to you v in
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: the UK, and that leads me to my career high,
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: which is appearing on your show.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: You had me on on Sents the two.
• 15:09
  Speaker 5: I appreciate that a few conversations, a few questions came
• 15:11
  Speaker 5: out of everything you just said. Number one, did Rupe
• 15:13
  Speaker 5: of Murdoch ever try to hire you at Fox News?
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: Uh? No, it is always about Fox Nation. Fox Nation
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: is the kind of subscription platform that Fox has which
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: runs side by side with Fox News. I do a
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: lot of Fox News stuff, like I'm doing The Five
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: this week for two days, I'll go on Sean Hannity Show.
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: And but the interesting thing for me is whatever people
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: think of Fox News, I'm never put under any pressure
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: to tow any line, to have any view about an issue. Nothing.
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: Nobody even talks to me. I'm allowed to just be
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: me and have my opinions. And I have strong opinions
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: about a lot of culture as she's in America, which
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: do not sit well with Fox viewers, for example, about
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: guns and things like that. Nobody ever tries to censor
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: me when I appear on Fox News, which is interesting
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: because I would say it's more difficult now to have
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: that kind of freedom of someone like CNN, where I
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: used to work, because their solo, for example, hostile towards
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: Donald Trump. If you try to go on there and
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: say anything positive about him, that would probably someone wouldn't
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: like it. I don't get any of that at Fox,
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: and I find that a really just an interesting observation
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: for me personally, that I'm allowed to just be me
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: and do my thing there.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: I'll let you be pro Trump on Fox, of course,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: no no.
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: But I could be critical of Trump too. Is my
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: point where I think it would be harder to be
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: pro Trump on CNN and get invited back too many times.
• 16:35
  Speaker 5: I think I think it's changed now.
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: I think it has done a bit. It's good they
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: need to because CNN should really be in the middle. Otherwise,
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: where do American viewers go to for genuinely impartial news coverage.
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: You've got MSNBC very you know, to the left, you've
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: got a Fox obviously very conservative. You need to have
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: CNN to be impartial. I felt they lost their minds
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: over Trump.
• 16:56
  Speaker 5: I mean, the reality is all of them should be impartial.
• 16:59
  Speaker 5: That would be the booty. It would beautiful if all
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: of them were objective.
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: I actually have no problem in a country like America,
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: a bit like the UK with the newspapers. When we
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: had left wing papers, right paper, I used to read
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: them all. I still do. I still when I'm back
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: in another four or five papers, I read them all
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: when I get a flavor for what everyone's thinking. I
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: don't have a problem with left wing networks or conservative networks,
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: but you've got to have some place that Americans can
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: go to for genuinely impartial coverage. And I think in
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: the in the UK we're quite blessed with We have
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: the BBC, we have Sky News, we have other networks
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: which are very, in my estimation comparative to hear, very impartial,
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: and I like that.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: You know who used to be that for America. John's
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: do it in the Daily Show?
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well I miss him. I felt he gave up
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: that show unfortunately too early. I think John Stuart would
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: have been a really important voice through the whole Trump era.
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: You know, you needed people's strong personalities through that era
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: to put things in perspective. I don't think he would
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: have gone the whole way in constant Trump bashing, because
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: of course that I've known Trump a long time since
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: I did his show. The thing about the Trump bashing
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: is it only helps him anyway, right. I mean, I
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: had a great conversation with Chris Rock when Trump won
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: in twenty sixteen, and I went to the New York
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: Knicks with my eldest son. Spency was over with me
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: and we were just sitting in one of the VIPA is.
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: Chris Rock is at the next table in design. So
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: we got talking. I said, what are you making? Was
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: just happened? The election happened the day before and New
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: York was like a mortuary. He walked around. It was
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: like this terrible silence everywhere. They were low did this happen?
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: And I've been predicting Trump was going to win because
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: I've been doing crime documentaries down in rural America, down
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: in Alabama, down in Florida, rural Florida, rural Texas. I
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: can feel it. I can feel the Trump trained steaming.
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: And no one on the coast seemed to have picked
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: up on this, and the media hadn't picked up on it.
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: They were just like, oh, Hiary, he's going to slaughter him.
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: She's the most qualified candidate ever. And I thought, you
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: don't understand Middle America and what's happening here. And I
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: think and I think the same thing is happening again now,
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: by the way, which is why the Iowa result has
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: shocked everyone on the coast. But you know, I remember
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: talking to Chris Rock and he said, you know, to
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: several things. He said, One, fame, do not underestimate the
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: power of a television fame in America, he said, Now,
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: he said. And secondly, he said, if someone's killed nine
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: or eight people, I think he said, don't go around
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: saying he's killed nine. I thought that was such an
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: astute thing to say. Don't, as we would say in England,
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: don't overreg the soufle right, don't exaggerate how bad Trump
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: is to score your point or get some clicks on
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: social media or whatever. Just give it straight. Examine what
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: he's saying, examine what he's doing. Often, what he says
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: and what he does are two different things, right, But
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: don't over exaggerate, don't over demonize him, he said, you know,
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: don't go around calling him the new Hitler when we
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: know Hitler killed twelve million people. So I thought that
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: was a really smart take then, and I think it's
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: a really good bit of advice now for the Democrats,
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: which is, if you continue to over demonize Trump, all
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: these legal cases against him and so on, it just
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: allows him to play the martyr, the victim. It fuels
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: his popularity. Even Republicans who don't like Trump are rallying
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: behind him because they think he's part of a Democrat
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: led liberal media witch hunt. And if you allow him
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: to play that card, he's going to win. So if
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: you're a Democrat, this is a bad strategy, but you
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: have to.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Hold people accountable or nobody's above the los, no.
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: Question, absolutely, but you have to hold both sides accountable, right,
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: and Trump needs to be held accountable. But you cannot
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: deny that. What's happened in Iowa I thought was fascinating.
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: He won across the board, right, I know, But if
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: it had been if it had been a Democrat with
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: those numbers, trust me, all the people saying yeah, would
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: have said very different things.
• 20:47
  Speaker 5: More enjoy yesterday. And he said otherwise. He had a
• 20:49
  Speaker 5: differ perspective which I didn't think about. He was like
• 20:51
  Speaker 5: fifty percent of Republicans also aboarded against Trump, which makes
• 20:55
  Speaker 5: it it doesn't make it a slam dune.
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: For I love Morning Joe, and I think Joe scarb
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: was brilliant, by the way, one of my favorite people
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: to watch on television over here. But would he have
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: said the same thing if Joe Biden got those numbers right?
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: And the truth is no, because of course they were
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: tremendous numbers, or we'll.
• 21:12
  Speaker 5: Never know because the Democrats don't want to do a primary.
• 21:14
  Speaker 5: Right is also not Demira.
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: But the truth is Trump. You know, Trump winning by
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: thirty thirty points of his nearest rival, Trump having the
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: biggest win of any Republican and Iowa caucus ever. Right,
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: these are undeniable numbers. And if Democrats want to look
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: at these numbers and pretend they're not what they are,
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: they are once again deluding themselves about Trump and they
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: will be sleepwalking, which sadly, and I know you've been
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: quite critical of Joe Biden about his just general lack
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: of energy, in general, lack of fire. If you look
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: at Trump, you know he's only three years younger than Biden.
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: He looks twenty years younger than Biden. This is remember
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: that Trump's never had a drink, never had a cigarette,
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: never had a drug. I've had long conversations with him
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: about his brother who died about alcoholism in his forties
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: and made him swear off all that stuff. Right, he
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: has an unusual health for a guy who doesn't look
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: like an athlete. He's pretty fit, and he's got a
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: lot of energy. He can get up there, he can
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: rally crowds. He's a very very effective performer as a politician,
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: regardless of what you think of his policies. And I
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: also think he's shown qualities which are many Americans admire,
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: not least resilience. This comeback is making Nobody thought he
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: could do this after the stolen election bullshit, after the
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: January sixth riots, all that stuff, after the ninety one
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: criminal charges. Did anyone really think We've been in a
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: position where Trump had a landslide win in Iowa and
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: is now in most polls I'm looking at likely to
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: beat Biden if he does end up as candidate. I mean,
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: it's an incredible comeback.
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: Well, it's something we say all the time, right, we
• 22:51
  Speaker 5: know that America systemically, structurally is a racist country, and
• 22:55
  Speaker 5: I think things like that prove it. I wanted to
• 22:57
  Speaker 5: ask you about in Trump twenty sixteen. After you win,
• 23:00
  Speaker 5: I can understand the case for optimism. Right, nobody wants
• 23:03
  Speaker 5: to see this country far. But it's twenty twenty four now.
• 23:07
  Speaker 5: Based on everything we've seen Trump do, all of the
• 23:09
  Speaker 5: things you just you know, said, the attempted call the
• 23:12
  Speaker 5: country to not anyone criminal charges, you still think he
• 23:15
  Speaker 5: should be president?
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: Well, it's on a question of whether I think he
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: should be. It's whether I think he might be. No,
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: I don't As a non American citizen, it's not for
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: me to say whether Trump should be your President's down
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: to Americans, right. What I do know is you remember
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: that last time, after four years of Trump, nearly ten
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: million more Americans voted for him second time round the first.
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: It was the biggest vote for both sides. Now, Biden
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: got a huge vote, the biggest ever. But don't forget
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: Trump got ten million more than first time. Right. So
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: he is hugely popular with the constituent of American people,
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: with many tens of millions of American people, and the
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: enthusiasm levels for him with his own base are massively
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: higher than they are for Joe bidegre Right. I think
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: the Democrats, if they insist on allowing Biden to progress
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: as their nominee, are going to hand Trump the best
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: chance he has have being re elected. They would say
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: the opposite. They would say, well, we beat him last time.
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: Joe Biden beat him last time because it was the
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: anti Trump vote.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Not just the anti Trump vote.
• 24:11
  Speaker 5: It was like some of the most tragic situations had happened.
• 24:16
  Speaker 5: I mean, you had COVID, you had George Floyd. People
• 24:18
  Speaker 5: were in the streets protesting like it was a series
• 24:21
  Speaker 5: of unfortunate circumstances.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: I think that helped Joe Biden list.
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: If it hadn't been for the pandemic, I think Trump
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: would have won that last election very comfortably.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: But what do you think about people now who are
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: very critical of Joe Biden, which is probably going to
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: influence people not to vote for Joe Biden, which is
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: pretty much as far as all the Democrats have. So
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: it's like even with Charlamagne, he they're very critical of him,
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: talking bad about Joe Biden and saying no, you're right.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: It might push people to sit on the couch instead
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: of go out and vote.
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: Well, I know you endorsed them both last time, right,
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: Biden and actually.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Endorsed Paris, Right, I didn't. I couldn't endorse Biden.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: What do you think about a lot of people that
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: are very critical of Joe Biden, but kind of that's
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: that's all we have.
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: I think it's a bad state of affairs for the Democrats,
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: and it's sleepwalking into potential defeat potentially to Donald Trump.
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: I think Trump is ninety five percent certain to be
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: the Republican nominee. And I think if you have a young,
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: dynamic candidate on the Democrat side, then you can draw
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: a real difference now between you and Trump. If you
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: go for someone like Gavin Newsom, by the governor of California.
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: All right, he's not universally beloved for a lot of
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: his policy stuff, but I watched him go on Sean
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: Hannity Show on Fox News for the hour really interesting.
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: The fact that he did it shows he's got balls, right,
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: the fact that they had a pretty courteous debate. It
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: was very interesting. He's slick, he is, he goold operate,
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: He's been governor of one of the biggest states in
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: the country. You know, you look at that and you think,
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: why wouldn't you want to parachute someone like him in
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: to take on Trump with more energy, with more dynamism,
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: with more of maybe you choose a path of the
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: country you think will resonate with enough people to beat Trump.
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: I just think Biden sadly, I don't know him personally.
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: I had an amazing conversation with him once on the
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: phone when his son Bo died, because Bo used to
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: be on my CNN show a lot, and I had
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: no doubt from that conversation. He just rang me to
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: thank me for a column I'd written about his son,
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: and we had a very moving conversation about loss and
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: grief and all that kind of thing. And there's no
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: doubt he has incredible empathy Joe Biden. But if you
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: want to know the problem with Joe Biden, go back
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: and look at YouTube clips of him as a senator
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: when he was in his forties. There's one in particular
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: where he's railing against apartheid South Africa. Is you're watching
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: a firebrand guy, absolute firebrand. You'd vote for that guy
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: every time. He would get the vote out against Trump
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: in a heartbeat. He's not that guy anymore. And it's
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: not because he's eighty one. Actually, I've met some incredibly
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: rupert murdocks in his nineties. He still has vim and
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: vigor and as sharp as attack Dame Joan Collins at
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: the Emmys is a very good friend of mine. Right,
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: Look how fan fantastic she looks. She's ninety. Right, she's
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: nine years older than Biden but has ten times the energy.
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: It's not about his age. Trump's seventy seventy eight. It's
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: not about him being eighty. Mick Jagger, I met Mick
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: Jagger at the cricket in your big cricket fans, you guys,
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: I met Mick Dagger at a big England cricket match
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: in the summer and he just turned eighty and I went,
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: you know, look at you. Compare it to Joe Biden,
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: who were laughing. I think you should be president of
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: the United States if you're American. Because it's not about age.
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: Jagger is only a few months younger than Biden. It's
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: about unfortunately, it's about senility. It's about probably a slow dementia.
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: It's about his inability to stay on two feet, his
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: constant vocal gas and so on, and so it's sad.
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: I don't think anyone feels good about watching Joe Biden
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: kind of physically disintegrating in front of our eyes. But
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: he's still nine months away from a general election and
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: then expects us to think he can lead this amazing,
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: huge superpower for another four years. He can't, aren't and
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: you can't go to karma Harris. She's been a total disaster.
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: So the Democrats, if they're not.
• 28:06
  Speaker 5: I think she's scared people more than I think if
• 28:08
  Speaker 5: he had and you know this DESI for racism and
• 28:11
  Speaker 5: sexism comes into play. I think if he has a
• 28:12
  Speaker 5: white male vice president, I think I don't think people
• 28:16
  Speaker 5: are as afraid of all for Biden.
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: You know what, I honestly don't think he has anything
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: to do with Carmela's race or gender. I think it's
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: because she's turned out to be useless. And sometimes you
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: just have to call what you see. I don't.
• 28:30
  Speaker 5: I mean most vice presidents are useless, well some of
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: them are, and yeah, the job some of them it's
• 28:37
  Speaker 5: it's not a great job.
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: You don't really have any power. You just take all
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: the flight. She's been especially ineffective. Let's put it like that, right.
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: I met her actually once. I thought she was very
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: charming to me, and I was expecting more. She's obviously
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: a bright woman. She's just been incredibly ineffective for him.
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: Her pole numbers are just as bad as his, so
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: the paraly I.
• 28:54
  Speaker 5: Think she's been ineffective because of to go back to
• 28:57
  Speaker 5: the fact her race and her gender.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: I think that allow allows her to say and.
• 29:01
  Speaker 5: Do things that other vps probably couldn't or even somebody
• 29:04
  Speaker 5: like Joe couldn't.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: But she's choosing that.
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: I agree, and I don't think she's done nearly enough
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: for your community. By the way, I mean, a lot
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: of promise came in with Karmala Harris. Where's the delivery?
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: I don't see it, So I don't think she's been
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: effective at all. The interesting thing about Gavin Newsom, if
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: he was to become the nominee, it solves the problem
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: of how do you fire Karmala Harris if you're a
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: Democrat leader. Because they both come from California, she wouldn't
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: be allowed to be his VP anyway as a rule
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: apparently in the Constitution about that or the election rules.
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: So automatically you solve two problems at once. You get
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: rid of this decaying old guy as your nominee with
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: a guy half his age and twice the energy. And
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: you also don't have to have Karma as VP anymore,
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: and he doesn't have to be seen to be firing it.
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: So it's an interesting little twist on that.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: What puts you so much into American politics?
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: Because I love it.
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: I don't think it's anything like America.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: I don't think like what like what what made you
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: want to jump into American politics and to learn American
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: politic because it's a it's a lot of bullshit too.
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: When I came to see and then I came in
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: sort of that in January twenty eleven, and of course
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: we had the election in twenty twelve, and I just
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: was covering this night after night to night. You got
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: to understand the difference in the American process and ours
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: in Britain. The election in Britain, the general election is
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: lasts about six weeks. That's it. Prime Minister calls an
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: election and within six weeks it's all over. But here
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: it basically starts the moment on's ended, and then it
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: really starts at the start of election year for eleven
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: or ten months. I find the whole process a apart
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: from anything else. You really get to understand what these
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: candidates are about. There's no escape. In Britain, you could
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: actually become a leader of a country. Like Britain, without
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: the public really knowing that much about you because there's
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: not enough time to scrutinize them properly. Plus the American media,
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: when it really gets together and goes after people, is
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: it a for mid scrutinizing beast. So I love I
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: love America. It's for me. It's been absolutely the land
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: of opportunity. I've had an amazing successes here and a
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: few lows. And I love the fact that Americans, whether
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: you're you know, I've been all around America doing America's
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: got talent. You went to almost every major city quite regularly,
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: and I just love the difference between the states the cities.
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: But I love the concerted view that America is still
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: the place if you want to come and be someone.
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: America is still the number one place to make a
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: success of herself. You know, when I was doing one
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: on TV here, I was very conscious. So few British
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: people have done that, really, just a handful To hold
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: down a nightly talk show like Larry King's old job
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: on CNN for nearly four years, it was pretty much unprecedented.
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: So I love it, don't David Frost back in the seventies,
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: you'd have to go back to. So I love I
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: love everything about America and the can do mentality and
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: the competition that you had because you got three hundred
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: and thirty forty million people competing for you know, these
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: prize jobs, and the work ethic. You know, you have
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: like three weeks vacation a year maximum. In most European
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: countries it's at least double that, right, So you have
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: less vacation time, you work harder, you're more competitive, You're
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: more successful as a nation than anyone in history. I
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: love all that that plays to all my I'd like
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: to think of a strong work ethic, very competitive. I
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: like to win in the biggest possible marketplace. That's America.
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: And I love my own country too, of course, but
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: I love that about America, and you lose that at
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: your peril, you know. And it's this whole issue about
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: democracy in America. Incredibly important to preserve the safeguards of
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: your democratic process. When I watched that, generally.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: Well Trump back in well, it's interesting.
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: Interesting. The one thing I thought was interesting was at
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: the end of his acceptance speech at Iowa, he suddenly
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: sounded very conciliatory and inclusive for the first time, and
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: I go back to the guy I saw across the
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: boardroom on The Apprentice. It may sound trite to do that,
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: but you remember, for most nights, for three hours, I
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: watched this guy interacting with people. He was a very
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: different person, very different, much more charming, much more towards
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: them female contestants, towards people who'd had a hard time,
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: much more empathetic. We didn't get this brash, often quite
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: boorish guy that you see a lot of when he
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: was president. I think if you want to understand why
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: Trump became like that when he became president, go and
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: read his book The Art of the Deal, which I
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: read several times before competing in his shirt. It's probably
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: why I won it because I used to talk to
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: him like it was him. But you know he's he
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: says in there, somebody punches, you punched them ten times back.
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: That's his natural default thing. He has the thinnest skin
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: of anyone in the world, but he has the thickest too,
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: so he reacts to everything, but he can soak up
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: pressure that would destroy any other politicians. The fascinating double
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: skin quality he has. But his natural thing is to
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: be a New York real estate magnate, pugilist right, and
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: if you take him on, as everybody did immediately and
• 34:10
  Speaker 4: tried to kill him off, he will fight back with
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: everything he's got. That's just.
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: I agree with you when you say the Democrats need
• 34:17
  Speaker 5: to move away from Joe Biden. But I also feel
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: like Republicans are doing themselves a disservice by not moving
• 34:23
  Speaker 5: away from Trump, because it's hard to say you're not
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: the party of white supremacy when you're supporting a guy
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: who you know didn't attempt to cool his country, a
• 34:32
  Speaker 5: guy who says he wants to be a dictator for
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: a day, a guy who's talking about, you know, killing
• 34:36
  Speaker 5: his political right. More importantly, a guy who said you
• 34:41
  Speaker 5: should eliminate the Constitution in order to overturn the results
• 34:45
  Speaker 5: of an election. I don't care if you're a Democrat Republican.
• 34:48
  Speaker 5: You can't have somebody, you know, a leader of the
• 34:49
  Speaker 5: free world who doesn't believe in the Constitution.
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: I agree, and I think the other thing you've always
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: got to be mindful about with Trump is not to
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: take everything he says to you. Now you have to
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: are you done? Have to give you a present you shouldn't.
• 35:01
  Speaker 5: Take us too, literally, because we're does media presonality.
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: Definitely take us No, I think if you look at
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: look at for example, the other day in Iowa. Right,
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: he comes out with his crack on the either of
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: the vote, and he said, look, I don't care if
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: you're sick at home, just tell your wife, darling, I've
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: got to go and vote. And he said, and if
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: it does, if you end up passing away, at least
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: your vote wasn't wasted. Right. And why I watch people
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: on CNN, my employers trying to be po faced about it. Right,
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: he's basically risking the lives of people in Iowa. No,
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: he wasn't. He was cracking a Trump gag, right. And
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: one of his Trump cards literally is humor. Right. People
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: in Middle America find him mailarious. Right. People in New
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: York pretend not to but probably laugh quietly. A lot
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: of the stuff, A lot of the other characters candidate
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: seem very double by confimence A.
• 35:47
  Speaker 5: Free world, tap three funny if people on.
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: The plane, yes, I agree, so so, but also you
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: know you're gonna remember becomes from a business real estate
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: in New York, where bullshitting is an artful right. That's
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: what they do, right, They just try pers way people
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: something's worth well, it's not. So. His entire life has
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: been spent exaggerating, going over the top, all that kind
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: of stuff. And I always say, if you actually an
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: interesting question for you guys, if you took away all
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: Trump's rhetoric, which you can't do, but his rhetoric and
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: his tweeting when he's present, take all that away, right,
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: so you never actually hear him speak. You just judge
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: him on what he did. What did he actually do
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: that was so outrageous?
• 36:25
  Speaker 5: He implemented, uh, put three conservative judges on the Supreme
• 36:29
  Speaker 5: Court perfectly?
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: He is right?
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: Yes, sure, but they look how.
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: Conservatives would say that's an amazing success.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: You will look how far right they are.
• 36:36
  Speaker 5: They got rid of real vieweight right, they got rid
• 36:38
  Speaker 5: of affirmative action in colleges. They're getting the Vaughton rates
• 36:40
  Speaker 5: that want to get rid of the Alton Rasack altogether.
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: Hang On, I would say, and I'm not a conservative
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: by definition, I would say that they pursued a conservative agenda.
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: I think secretive about that. They did what conservatives would
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: want conservative appointed, Republican appointed judges on the Supreme Court
• 36:59
  Speaker 4: to do. Trump just got lucky that he was able
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: to do it three times in one tenure. You just
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: got lucky. Right. You could argue with the tactics of
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: the Democrats allowing some of those Democrat appointed judges to
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: go on too long. Yeah, but they're allowing them to
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: die on his watch.
• 37:14
  Speaker 5: But the thing that they got rid of directly impact
• 37:16
  Speaker 5: you know, people directly impact people that look like me
• 37:18
  Speaker 5: and you know, people that I love.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: I got four daughters. You know. Rov Wade is a
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: big deal.
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: And I agree, I agree with you personally, but that
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: is that is democracy, right, what you're challenging. There is
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: actually a constitutional right of an American president to nominate
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: Supreme Court justices. He just happened to do it three
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: times in one tenure. That happened to ask you the
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: court conservative, would you have me?
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: What did you do it?
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: Or you can't blame Trump for appointing conservative judges on
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: the Supreme Court. Any Democrat would do the same the
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: other way.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: Sure, but he takes credit for rov Wade being gone.
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and personally he doesn't agree with you, and I
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: I'm making assumption here about your view. He doesn't agree.
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: I believe in a woman's right to have an abortion, Okay.
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: I think it's awful that there are states in America
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: which are going to make it incredibly difficult, if not impossible.
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: I would counter that by saying, there are many countries
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: around the world where it's completely illegal to have an abortion.
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: You can't go to Poland and have an abortion legally,
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: for example, Malta, I think is another one. Right, The
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: UK has some of the loosest abortion laws in the world.
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: The current legal term is twenty four weeks or something.
• 38:24
  Speaker 5: Right, So any led an attempted call of this country
• 38:28
  Speaker 5: to a would turn the results of an election.
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: I agree, and I wrote a column at the time
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: saying I thought it was a despicable assault on democracy, right,
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: and that all plays to Trump is hates losing. He
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: got into his head. I think he genuinely believes the
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: election was stolen. I think get a lot of people
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: around him, Giuliani and other people who were telling him
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: twenty four to seven, it was stolen wrongly from you.
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: And because of the number of votes involved is like
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: forty thousand votes, the tiny number of votes right, which
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: he had to in his head to compute into a loss,
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: he couldn't do it. And that's a failing of Trump
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: and his failure to honor the result of that election
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: was a disgrace. And I've told him to his face,
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: and he lost his ship in an interview and gave
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: it to me. You know, then you're a fool and
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: you're this. I said, well, maybe I am the fool.
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: But I just think if you're an American president and
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: you lose, you accept defeat. I said, there's no doubt
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: the American political system is one of the most secure
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: in the world. The voting system is one of the
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: most secure in the world. So I don't agree with
• 39:27
  Speaker 4: him about that. But but it's an interesting but I
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: come back to you take away all the rhetoric, actually
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: judge him on what he did. He didn't take America
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: into any wars. That's a big plus to me, big plus. Right.
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: He had interesting relations with traditional American enemies North Korea, China, Russia. Right,
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: did that help or hinder American interest? Would Vladimir Putin
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: have invaded Ukraine if Trump had still been president. I
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: don't know the answer, But he hadn't interesting way of
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: going about relationships with these people, which America has traditionally
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: been very hostile towards and this. You know, if you
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: look at him purely on his foreign policy, I thought
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: he was right about NATO, not in getting rid of it,
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: but he making other countries pay their dues. They're now
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: all paying their dues. Big ticking the box for Trump.
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: He was right, Why should America be paying for everything?
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: If you're signed up member of NATO and you want
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: the American military to come and support you, you pay
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: your two percent or whatever. It was right, and now
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: they all have to. So Trump did a lot of
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: effective things with his barrel like things. He was right,
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: for example, to take take on the Germans about their
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: over alliance on Russian energy, because when it came to it,
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: Russia turned the tap off and Germany was screwed. So
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: Trump has these sort of you know, he has these
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: instincts if trumpet sometimes he's right, sometimes he's wrong. Right,
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: But I don't think he's as straightforward as he's Hitler,
• 40:54
  Speaker 4: or he's an angel. He's somewhere in hell.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: Didn't start off Hitler either. I'm sure you've read.
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: T He's never going to kill twelve million people. I
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: can guarantee he's not going to do that. About Hitley, well, yeah,
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: he showed a lot more sign of it than Trump.
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: But I think the idea of equating someone like Trump
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: to Hitler is stupid. Again, it comes back to that
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: Chris Rock thing. Don't over demonize the guy. You may
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: have to have him as president here for another four years, Right,
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: I would urge Donald Trump to change, right, He's got
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: to stop being in defense mode the whole time. Right,
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: have a more That's why I come back to his
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: speech in Iowa. He suddenly started sounding much more inclusive.
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: I want to bring independence and Democrats with me this time. Right?
• 41:34
  Speaker 4: Has he learned lessons? Has he does he regret quietly
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: what went on with Janeral I bet he does. Right,
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: knowing Trump, I bet he does. I'll never admit it,
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: but I bet he does. Would he pivot to a
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: more inclusive president second time round? Has he learned lessons?
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: I don't know the answers those questions. I know that
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: his style enrages a lot of people, but it also
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: delights a lot of people.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: Then that's a guy.
• 41:57
  Speaker 5: But I don't believe none of the bullshit that's coming out.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: Of his mouth.
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: What what if I said is wrong?
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: As far as what's frust Trump? My reading of it, well,
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: even if you.
• 42:06
  Speaker 5: Talk about, you know, what he would do in regards
• 42:09
  Speaker 5: to Russian and Ukraine. I personally think if Russia gets back,
• 42:12
  Speaker 5: I mean Trump gets back into the White House of
• 42:13
  Speaker 5: two thousand and four, he would turn his back and
• 42:15
  Speaker 5: let Russia do whatever they.
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: Want, maybe to Ukraine. But if you judge him on
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: what he actually think, if actually judges foreign policy and
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: what he did as president, there's none of that to me.
• 42:23
  Speaker 5: To me, none of that, all of that failed in
• 42:25
  Speaker 5: comparison to how he does not give a damn about
• 42:28
  Speaker 5: American democracy. When you got a guy literally saying let's
• 42:32
  Speaker 5: get rid of the constitution to overturn the results of
• 42:35
  Speaker 5: an election, I'm not like, No.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: I agree, yeah, agreed, America.
• 42:40
  Speaker 5: He's the guy who says America first.
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: There's a very good argument that someone who does that
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: should not be allowed to run against However, your constitution
• 42:47
  Speaker 4: makes it crystal clear that he can run again. And
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: in fact he's in the Fourtie Amendment.
• 42:51
  Speaker 5: The Fourtie Amendment said if you tried to lead the
• 42:53
  Speaker 5: cool this country, you are.
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: A President's going to happen. The states that have tried
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: to play that card, it'll go to the Supreme cool
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: and they're going to throw it out. You know why,
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: because he's got Republican judges.
• 43:04
  Speaker 6: Yes, then he put in plate come you know, you
• 43:07
  Speaker 6: know why he was able to because he was elected
• 43:10
  Speaker 6: your president of twenty sixteen, right right, So that if
• 43:13
  Speaker 6: Americans didn't want Trump as president, don't vote for him.
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: And the same applies now. Don't vote for the guy
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: because you know what if he com pact the Supreme
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: Court with more Republican judges next time, man, that's exactly
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: what they'll do, as the Democrats will do as well.
• 43:26
  Speaker 5: No, Democrats won't do because they don't have the courage
• 43:28
  Speaker 5: to do that. They could have done things like that.
• 43:31
  Speaker 5: Even when Barack Obama could have implemented Merritt Garland, he
• 43:34
  Speaker 5: chose to follow the rules of democracy because Mitch McConnell.
• 43:37
  Speaker 5: That was that Mitch McConnell told him he's too late
• 43:39
  Speaker 5: in your presidency to implement.
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: That was practical error.
• 43:42
  Speaker 5: Yes, because when when Trump got the chance to do it,
• 43:45
  Speaker 5: he did it.
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: But let me ask you, Mitch mcconaed the encourage that
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: you mentioned Obama. So it's an interesting little question. I
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: always throw people interest if you guys know the answer.
• 43:52
  Speaker 4: How many immigrants illegally did Barack Obama deport in his
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: eight years as president?
• 43:59
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: I have a guess, no clue, no clue. Interesting, right,
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: you don't know.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, I know it was a lot, but I
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: don't know exactly.
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: I have a guess.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: Give me a number.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: I actually have read that as more than Trump.
• 44:10
  Speaker 4: Give me a number.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: I really don't know how.
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: Many people did he physically have deported in eight years.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: I have no idea.
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: Will give me a number. I don't no.
• 44:25
  Speaker 5: I really don't know.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: I really don't know even to begin. I don't know
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: his tens of thousands, millions. I don't know.
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: Millions, but I read I've read is over three million.
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: He was known as deporter in Chief by Mexicans, and
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: that was more than Trump. He deported way more than
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: he deported, way more pro rather than any president in history.
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: Who dropped the most bombs in a calendar year in American.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: History, President Barack.
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: Right, including drone programs and so on. Right, who got
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: elected in a nine on shutting down Guantanamo Bay because
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: as a former lawyer, he believed it was an illegal institution.
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: President Barack Obama, What is still open? Today animal correct right,
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So I know that
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: the general thing is Obama angel, Trump devil. But if
• 45:12
  Speaker 4: you actually apply the scrutiny that we give Trump, put
• 45:16
  Speaker 4: it this way, if Trump had deported three million people,
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: you think you guys wouldn't know the answer. Of course
• 45:20
  Speaker 4: you would, right. Nobody knows that answer because nobody thought
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: that way about Saint Barack. And I think that he
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: wasn't Saint Barack, and Trump isn't the devil. Trump has
• 45:31
  Speaker 4: a more devilish way of talking, and he has to
• 45:33
  Speaker 4: be held absolutely to account. And it's a very good
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: argument to say, after what happened on January sixth, he
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: shouldn't be allowed to run again. But he is allowed
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: to run again. And in fact, he could be convicted
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: of a crime before the election and still be allowed
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: to run as pretend, and he could actually go to
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: prison and still be President of the United States constitutionally
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: from a prison cell. So this is not my constitution,
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: These aren't my rules. This is the reality. So I'm
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: not sitting here saying you should vote for Trump. I'm
• 46:03
  Speaker 4: not defending Trump. I don't I think irrationally. I'm simply
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: presenting a slightly fairer argument about why Trump is now
• 46:11
  Speaker 4: back in the position he's in and why he could
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: win again. Then some people want to present because they
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: think it doesn't suit them politically to.
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: Say that, how often do you speak Trump?
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: I've spoken to him since we fell out over the
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: last interview, but I'm sure I will do and I'm
• 46:25
  Speaker 4: sure that I had a chat with him before the
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: last election. I said after the pandemic star I fell
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: out with him when when he did some ridiculous announcement
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: that the best way to solve COVID was to inject
• 46:37
  Speaker 4: yourself with bleach, remember right, And I read a column saying,
• 46:41
  Speaker 4: mister President, your batshit crazy ideas are going to get
• 46:43
  Speaker 4: people killed, right, stop it. And he unfollowed me on Twitter,
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: which was no big, no small thing, because he only
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: followed fifty things on Twitter. Half of them were companies,
• 46:53
  Speaker 4: the other most of the other half for his family.
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: I was the only non American I think he followed
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: on Twitter. This became a big story. I didn't speak
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: to for a few months, and about a week before
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: the election, maybe two weeks before, I was doing Fox
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: and Friends and they said, well, you know, you know,
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: Donald Trump, what advice would you give him? And I said,
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: I look down the barrel of the camera. I went, well,
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: if he wants my advice, I said, it's not too late.
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: Just give me a call with the president. Next morning,
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: I get a call from Air Force one. I think
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: it was I'm miss President in United States. So on
• 47:18
  Speaker 4: he came, but nothing had happened.
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: How does that come on your core idea? I'm just curious.
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: Didn't come on the Air Force one on your call?
• 47:22
  Speaker 4: No, it was no cal I never normally asked. I
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: happened to be at home with my daughter and she
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: just said a hilarious thing. That morning on the school run.
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: She was about I can't remember if she was only
• 47:30
  Speaker 4: about eight or nine. She said. She said, Dad, and
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: she said, you know, I know you keep saying that
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: Donald Trump is a unique character. She said, I think
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: he's too unique. Anyway. Next day, literally like two hours later,
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: we're sitting there and the phone goes and it's and
• 47:45
  Speaker 4: it's the White House switchboard putting me through to the President.
• 47:47
  Speaker 4: And I said, to it last, can I talk to him?
• 47:50
  Speaker 4: I went, probably not a good idea. Probably in like
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: a half hour conversation and I said, look, if you
• 47:55
  Speaker 4: really want some advice, I said, it's this. You've got
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: to start being more empathyathetic. I said, your behavior through
• 48:02
  Speaker 4: the whole pandemic has been it's all about you. The
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: stock market crashing is is you know it's damaging your
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: election chances. Right, you're airing the stupid theories about COVID
• 48:12
  Speaker 4: from the presidential podium, which if people listen to them,
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: they're going to kill themselves. It's madness. Where's I said?
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: You want? You just want to be commander in chief,
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: but actually you can be comforter in chief. That's equally important.
• 48:25
  Speaker 4: Put your arm around America sometimes right as president, be
• 48:28
  Speaker 4: the comforter in chief. Millions of people are getting COVID.
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: Many of them are dying right, many of them are
• 48:34
  Speaker 4: suffering horrendous problems with COVID. Put your arm around the
• 48:38
  Speaker 4: country and be empathetic. You got it yourself?
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: True?
• 48:41
  Speaker 5: Is it true you applying to be Trump's chief of
• 48:43
  Speaker 5: There no.
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: Made up. I would never work for him, and I
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: would never tell people to vote to vote for him.
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: That's not my business. I'm not American. I have a
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: house here. I love the country, love the people. It's
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: your country. It's your vote. But all I would say
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: is that you did vote him in in twenty sixteen.
• 49:02
  Speaker 4: I didn't, right, And I know Trump very very well. No, No,
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: but it's on you, right, It's on you. And all
• 49:11
  Speaker 4: I see now is the Democrats whining about Trump's comeback.
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: One of the reasons he's soaring back is because there's
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: such a perceived weakness in Biden. Biden's approval ratings are shocking, shocking, Right,
• 49:24
  Speaker 4: No incumbent president, I think, has ever been re elected
• 49:26
  Speaker 4: with these approval numbers. So this is, you know, the country.
• 49:29
  Speaker 4: Most people in America think the country's going the wrong way,
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: most of them feeling economic hardships, most of them, you know,
• 49:35
  Speaker 4: have all sorts of problems with the way the country
• 49:37
  Speaker 4: has been run. And they think back to Trump, and
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: I think, for all the garbage that comes out of
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: his mouth, they look at the way he handled the
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: economy until the pandemic and they think, actually, we were
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: better off under Trump. They look at his foreign policy
• 49:50
  Speaker 4: and they think, actually, we didn't start poking on those
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: in all over the place with wars here, left, right
• 49:55
  Speaker 4: and center, and they like that. Most Americans I've spoken to,
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: you know, they think he took immigration a lot more seriously,
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: for example, than Biden seems to be doing. The situation
• 50:05
  Speaker 4: everything on the southern border.
• 50:06
  Speaker 5: Is everything you're saying is absolutely right, and the poll
• 50:10
  Speaker 5: show it what happened, and I always shows it.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: You preachy to the choir.
• 50:14
  Speaker 4: When you say to me, Charlamagne, that I went just
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: to pull you up, when you say to me, I
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: don't think you believe a word of what you're saying.
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: All I'm doing is presenting facts. Right, I'm not launching
• 50:22
  Speaker 4: a campaign, but I'm pushed.
• 50:25
  Speaker 5: Back on just be more empathetic. It's like, now he's done.
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: Only because I've seen him be that and he has
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: that in his locker.
• 50:32
  Speaker 5: When people show you who they are, you gotta believe
• 50:34
  Speaker 5: that we've seen enough with Trump and.
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: I I agree, and Trump, good, bad, and ugly is
• 50:38
  Speaker 4: who he is. He's not going to change at seventy seven, right,
• 50:40
  Speaker 4: He's not. So you know what you're getting, you know
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: what you're voting for this time. But America votes him,
• 50:44
  Speaker 4: and again it's because they want it. That's a fact, right,
• 50:46
  Speaker 4: you can't get away from that. That's right. And by
• 50:48
  Speaker 4: the way, his his popularity Amongst African Americans is rising
• 50:52
  Speaker 4: as Biden's falls. That's incredible. When Biden came on this
• 50:56
  Speaker 4: soo right and he studied with you, He's saying, if
• 51:00
  Speaker 4: you don't vote for me, then you're not black. You're right.
• 51:02
  Speaker 4: It was a stupid joke, but what a stupid thing
• 51:05
  Speaker 4: to say, and actually how ironic. Ever since he said it,
• 51:08
  Speaker 4: he kind of black votes disappeared from him.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: Right, is a candidate that could beat him? Do you
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: think there is a candidate that could be Trump?
• 51:14
  Speaker 4: I if I were at the Democrats, I would absolutely
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: go for somebody like Newsom.
• 51:18
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 51:18
  Speaker 4: Yes, he's progressive, but he's moved himself to the center
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: very skillfully. This In the last six months to a year,
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: he's been to China and met President G. You think
• 51:27
  Speaker 4: President G was going to meet the governor of California
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: less he thinks he might actually end up president one day.
• 51:32
  Speaker 4: He looks like a president, right, He looks like someone
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: that could run the country. He's articulate, he's intelligent, He's
• 51:39
  Speaker 4: run one of the biggest states in the country. I
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: think he has a lot of things going for him.
• 51:44
  Speaker 4: I don't necessarily agree with the more progressive stuff, but
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: I think he himself has realized his pathway to running
• 51:51
  Speaker 4: the Democrats and to potentially becoming president is to move
• 51:54
  Speaker 4: more to the middle ground right. And if he does that,
• 51:57
  Speaker 4: and he's given a chance to do that, and that
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: could be the the options for America between Trump and
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: someone like Newson, I think he's got a very good chance,
• 52:05
  Speaker 4: a better chance to Biden.
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: I agree.
• 52:08
  Speaker 5: Let's say there's a great black philosopher by the name
• 52:10
  Speaker 5: of Little Busy. Yeah, he makes his statement say I
• 52:13
  Speaker 5: don't want talk about it no more enough. That's how
• 52:15
  Speaker 5: I feel about political conversation. Yeah, but I do want
• 52:18
  Speaker 5: to talk to you. Do you regret what you said
• 52:19
  Speaker 5: about Meghan Markle in regard to her mental health? Because
• 52:22
  Speaker 5: you know, I'm a huge mental health advocate. Yeah, and
• 52:24
  Speaker 5: none of us know what people are truly going through.
• 52:26
  Speaker 5: Do you believe that you were insensitive to her mental
• 52:28
  Speaker 5: health or for people that don't know, what did you say?
• 52:31
  Speaker 4: So? She went on Oprah Winfrey in that infamous interview,
• 52:34
  Speaker 4: and she made a claim that she had had suicidal
• 52:37
  Speaker 4: thoughts and she'd gone to a senior member of the
• 52:40
  Speaker 4: Buckingham Palace staff and asked for help and was told
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: you can't have any effectively because it would be bad
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: for the Royal brand. I did not believe that happened.
• 52:50
  Speaker 4: So what's happened? Since this is over two years ago? Right,
• 52:54
  Speaker 4: Ever since then, not a single shred of evidence or
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: a name of that person has ever been produced. Prince
• 53:01
  Speaker 4: Harry writes a book of over four hundred pages never
• 53:04
  Speaker 4: mentions this. Didn't mention the racism claims either, it because
• 53:08
  Speaker 4: like they never happened. He then said later, I didn't
• 53:11
  Speaker 4: mean to say that the Royal family were racist. We didn't.
• 53:14
  Speaker 4: It was the media bullshit. You said that members of
• 53:17
  Speaker 4: the Royal family. It turned out to be King Charles
• 53:20
  Speaker 4: and Kate had expressed negative concern about the potential skin
• 53:24
  Speaker 4: color of your baby, which that conversation will have never happened,
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: and there is no evidence that it happened in the
• 53:31
  Speaker 4: way they tried to imply what Oprah gasped in horror.
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: And so for two years the Royal family have had
• 53:37
  Speaker 4: to deal with being accused of being callous racist who
• 53:40
  Speaker 4: don't care about a young woman's suicidal thoughts and don't
• 53:43
  Speaker 4: care that about being brazenly racist about the skin color
• 53:46
  Speaker 4: of their child. I said, I don't believe those things happened.
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: So you weren't dismissing her mental health? And what you mean?
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: And me? And in fact I no, and I went
• 53:53
  Speaker 4: on I went on my morning show the next morning
• 53:55
  Speaker 4: and spent a minute clarifying my view about mental health. Right,
• 53:58
  Speaker 4: I think mental health is incredibly important. People should talk
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: about mental health. But on that specific thing, did I
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: I repeat it? Is it feasible that somebody at Buckingham Palace,
• 54:08
  Speaker 4: at a high level said to a young woman who said,
• 54:11
  Speaker 4: I feel suicidal, you cannot get help? And by the way,
• 54:14
  Speaker 4: Harry at the time was the figurehead of a major
• 54:17
  Speaker 4: mental health charity. Why couldn't he get a help? Right?
• 54:20
  Speaker 4: None of it made sense to me. But in his
• 54:21
  Speaker 4: book it never gets mentioned. There's not a mention of
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: her mental health or suicidal thoughts. Right, there's not a
• 54:27
  Speaker 4: mention of the supposed racism. Again, it's like it never happened.
• 54:31
  Speaker 5: That's a good point about what you said about Prince Harry,
• 54:33
  Speaker 5: so big, mental health a.
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: Huge Why do you think she's lying?
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: Or I think she's a liar and I think he,
• 54:38
  Speaker 4: unfortunately is a liar too. And we saw it again
• 54:41
  Speaker 4: this week. They called their daughter Lilli bet Now that
• 54:44
  Speaker 4: at the time was an incredibly sensitive thing because Prince
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: Philip was dying and this was his nickname for his wife,
• 54:54
  Speaker 4: the Queen, and only a very tiny number of people
• 54:57
  Speaker 4: called her lily Beet, including him mainly, so he would sign,
• 55:01
  Speaker 4: you know, she would sign letters to him Lilybet. It
• 55:03
  Speaker 4: was very special. And it emerged that Harry and Meghan
• 55:07
  Speaker 4: were going to call their daughter Lilibet. Okay, and then
• 55:10
  Speaker 4: when there was a big furiorri about this, they said, well,
• 55:13
  Speaker 4: we have the permission of the Queen. Turned out to
• 55:15
  Speaker 4: be an absolute lie. They did not have the permission
• 55:18
  Speaker 4: of the Queen. Wow. A book has just come out
• 55:20
  Speaker 4: written by a very authoritative journeist with full access to
• 55:24
  Speaker 4: all the royals, including all the Royal household, and they've
• 55:27
  Speaker 4: made it crystal clear that the Royal household said they'd
• 55:30
  Speaker 4: never seen the Queen so angry as when she discovered
• 55:33
  Speaker 4: they were going to call their daughter Lilibet, her private
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: nickname from her husband who had by now died. Right.
• 55:40
  Speaker 5: Wow.
• 55:41
  Speaker 4: So I'm afraid I think they speak with forked tongue
• 55:44
  Speaker 4: and I think it's caused enormous damage to the Royal
• 55:47
  Speaker 4: family's reputation, not least here and in the Caribbean, where
• 55:51
  Speaker 4: it coursed many countries, still a part of the Commonwealth.
• 55:54
  Speaker 4: I think a lot of black people around the world thought, wow,
• 55:58
  Speaker 4: they're just a bunch of n Steve racist and there's
• 56:01
  Speaker 4: never been any evidence. And when I found out through this.
• 56:04
  Speaker 4: You may remember a few weeks ago this guy, oh
• 56:07
  Speaker 4: mid Scobie, who wrote a book about always supporting the Sussexes,
• 56:11
  Speaker 4: wrote a new book about the downfall of the monarchy,
• 56:14
  Speaker 4: as he put it, and a Dutch version of the
• 56:18
  Speaker 4: book suddenly named Charles and Kate as the people who
• 56:22
  Speaker 4: supposedly made these racist from arks. Everyone in Britain went, oh,
• 56:24
  Speaker 4: don't be so ridiculous, right, the last two people on
• 56:28
  Speaker 4: earth who would ever be racist or say something of
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: the negative context about a skin color of a baby?
• 56:34
  Speaker 4: And I would ask you, guys, interesting question asked at
• 56:37
  Speaker 4: the time. It's a huge ferrari Again, but when you
• 56:41
  Speaker 4: have a white father Megan's father's wife and a black
• 56:45
  Speaker 4: mother and you're about to have a baby as the daughter,
• 56:50
  Speaker 4: is it not a common conversation where someone might sell,
• 56:54
  Speaker 4: by the way, what color might the baby be? Is
• 56:56
  Speaker 4: that not a perfectly normal question to ask when you
• 57:00
  Speaker 4: have white one white parent, one black parent, I would
• 57:04
  Speaker 4: say it is you.
• 57:04
  Speaker 5: Know you should have on your shoulder, had this discussion
• 57:06
  Speaker 5: a great scholar and American named doctor Umar Johnson.
• 57:09
  Speaker 4: Right, but what Jesus, what do you guys? What do
• 57:12
  Speaker 4: you guys say?
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: Honestly, I've never heard that conversation.
• 57:15
  Speaker 4: But do you know people in that position?
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: No, I've never heard them, because do I do?
• 57:19
  Speaker 4: Right? In Britain? Britain is pretty common, right, you have
• 57:22
  Speaker 4: a lot of a lot of mixed raised parents and
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: then you have a child and it's and they all
• 57:26
  Speaker 4: came out and said, well, yeah, we've had that conversation.
• 57:28
  Speaker 4: So the question then becomes not the question if that
• 57:31
  Speaker 4: was what was said, we don't we still don't know.
• 57:33
  Speaker 4: It becomes what was the intonation of the question. Was
• 57:36
  Speaker 4: there a negative concern element to that question? Was it was, well,
• 57:41
  Speaker 4: I hope it isn't going to be too dark? Nobody,
• 57:44
  Speaker 4: nobody believes Charles or Kate would have ever saidthing like that.
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: What do you think they're trying to take down?
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: It seems like you're saying they're trying to take down
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: the royal family and make them look bad or make
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: them look keeping.
• 57:53
  Speaker 4: Their royal titles, which I think is sickening hypocrisies.
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: Wow, why do you think they would want to do that?
• 57:57
  Speaker 4: Because I think I have to say I I think
• 58:00
  Speaker 4: Mega Markle is a very manipulative person who not at all.
• 58:05
  Speaker 4: I think she's been poisonous to our royal family's reputation,
• 58:08
  Speaker 4: very damaging to the monarchy. And I'm a huge monarchist
• 58:11
  Speaker 4: and support I think.
• 58:13
  Speaker 5: You know, I have to ask if she was one
• 58:15
  Speaker 5: hundred percent Caucasian, Oh, I would you would you feel
• 58:18
  Speaker 5: the same if it was the same rhetoric, Oh my god,
• 58:21
  Speaker 5: she was doing the same thing. Would you say she's
• 58:24
  Speaker 5: poisoning the royal head.
• 58:26
  Speaker 4: Only she accused him of being a bunch of racists
• 58:28
  Speaker 4: with no evidence. Well, she couldn't do that, of course,
• 58:32
  Speaker 4: so obviously it's only because she herself, right, is what
• 58:37
  Speaker 4: she says. She's black, she's from a mixed race parenting.
• 58:41
  Speaker 4: She made incredibly serious allegations about the Royal family being
• 58:46
  Speaker 4: racist and has produced no evidence. And like I say,
• 58:50
  Speaker 4: why did Harry not mention this in his book? If
• 58:52
  Speaker 4: it was that serious? He probably loves his family still,
• 58:55
  Speaker 4: he hates his family. He doesn't talked to any of
• 58:58
  Speaker 4: his family. She doesn't talk to anyone in her family. Right,
• 59:02
  Speaker 4: So if somebody from a toxic family herself who only
• 59:05
  Speaker 4: talks really to her mother at the wedding, she only
• 59:08
  Speaker 4: had one guest, the mother, right. And you know you
• 59:11
  Speaker 4: asked me, did Mega Markle's skin color play any part
• 59:15
  Speaker 4: of my argument about no right to the point she
• 59:17
  Speaker 4: played the race card with no evidence, which I thought
• 59:21
  Speaker 4: was disgraceful.
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: And there's been no evidence since he was firing her
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: up until that point.
• 59:26
  Speaker 4: I got on very well with Mega Market before she
• 59:28
  Speaker 4: met Harry. I thought she was perfectly nice, right. I
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: liked suits. I thought she was good. Yeah, love suits,
• 59:34
  Speaker 4: I said, love suits. And so it was never if.
• 59:37
  Speaker 4: I wrote a piece which you can go and find.
• 59:39
  Speaker 4: On the day they got married, a big piece for
• 59:41
  Speaker 4: the male Sunday, saluting this wonderful moment for the royal
• 59:45
  Speaker 4: family of the first biracial marriage we'd had. Everyone in
• 59:49
  Speaker 4: Britain celebrated this. Britain is he going to understand about
• 59:51
  Speaker 4: Britain were a very multicultural, tolerant country. By every poll
• 59:57
  Speaker 4: that comes out, people consider Britain to be one of
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 4: the most tolerant multicultural places on Earth. And I would
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 4: say that, having lived there, most of my life. Right,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 4: we don't have the kind of incendiary race issues that
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 4: you have in America. All the history just doesn't exist
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: in the same way. And that's why what happened on
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: that Oprah interview was so shocking and so damaging. And
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 4: then the question became, well was it true? And I've
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: got to say, sitting here now two years later, no,
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 4: it wasn't true.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: How would she prove that?
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 4: If it was?
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 5: Though, how would she prove She went to somebody and
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 5: expressed her mental health concerns, like how would anybody be
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 5: able to fact check that?
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 4: She just has to give us a name who wasn't Oh,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 4: got you?
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 5: Got you?
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 4: And she could have named the alleged royal racist and
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: let them defend themselves, but instead by not naming them,
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 4: You're gonna remember in the Oprah interview, she said that
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: the racism and comments were made to Harry when she
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 4: was pregnant. He said, is before they got engaged. That's
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 4: a year and a half apart. They couldn't even decide
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 4: what year this supposed to have happened. So a lot
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 4: of it just smelt to me of being wrong, untrue,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 4: very damaging. But no, none of my criticism of Mega
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 4: markus got anything to do with their skin color or
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 4: upbringing or anything. In fact, I would think more of
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 4: her because of her background. I think it was, as
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 4: I wrote in my piece on the day they got married,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 4: this is a great moment for our monarchy, which is
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 4: a very white family obviously historically right. I don't blame them.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 4: It's just like a lot of families in Britain. Like
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 4: their family, they're very white. It was great to see
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 4: someone who was not from the normal background.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 5: Is there really the reason you let go?
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: Let go by IV?
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 4: I didn't believe her, and I was told if you
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 4: if you don't apologize to disbelieving it. And then what
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 4: they didn't tell me on this ultimatum was put to me.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 4: They didn't tell me that the night before she had
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 4: written to the female boss of ITV and demanded she
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 4: fire me. Wow personally wow. Right, And they didn't tell
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 4: me that. If I'd known that, I would never have quit.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 4: I'd have had the public debate. I'd have had the
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 4: argument I wasn't gonna be held ransom by some laying
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: princess Pinocchio, as I called it.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: Did you want to quit or did they like no
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: force you.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 4: No, they said, you apologize, so you have to leave,
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 4: so you got fire. Well I could have apologized and gravel,
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: But why would I do that?
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 5: You know you won't say it after they make a
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 5: market interview that freedom of speech is a hill you're
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 5: happy to die on and you're off to spend more
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 5: time with your opinions. In this era of everybody having
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 5: an opinion and a voice, should people be able to
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 5: say whatever they want without consequences?
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: Well, there are even under the First Amendment, which is
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 4: the most brilliant protection of free speech probably anywhere in
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 4: the world, there are limitations, right, child pornography and so on.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 4: There are things that you can't say because they have repercussions.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 4: There are laws that govern these things, right. I had
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: an argument with Elon Musk about this, about bringing Alex
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 4: Jones back to x for example.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: Alex Jones a free speech hero. You called him a
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: heat speech.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 4: Must which is And the truth is that Elon originally
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 4: didn't bring him back and said, I don't think any
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 4: one who's exploited the deaths of children like that, and
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 4: he talked about himself losing a child, No one like
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 4: that should be allowed back on this platform when he
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: first bought it, and when he did a U turn right,
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 4: I haven't done a utah. I thought he was right
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 4: the first time. You know, Alex Jones is over a
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 4: billion dollars to those Sandy Hook families for deliberately, over
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 4: many years, systematically spreading lies about them to make himself
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 4: very rich. He made hundreds of millions of dollars by
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 4: deliberately promoting lies about Sandy Hook families grieving their children
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 4: being blown to pieces at school. And I was on
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 4: air when that happened. And I come from a country
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 4: where very few people ever get shot dead. I mean
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 4: literally we have. We've had one mass shooting and god
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 4: knows how long. You know, you have one every two days. Right,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 4: it's a totally different culture. We don't have a gun
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 4: ownership culture. But I remember the pain of those families
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 4: and the fact that this guy was sitting there in
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 4: his Texas studio deliberately saying they were actors making it
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 4: all up blah blah blah blah blah blah for money,
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 4: And there was a direct correlation. He would say his
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 4: stuff and you'd see a huge spike in his revenues.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 4: And we're talking tens of millions pouring into the coffers.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 4: By making these people even more miserable than they were already,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 4: I think it's unconscionable, but it's also covered by the
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 4: First Amendment. Defamation exclusion right defamation is not covered by
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 4: the First Amendment. He's been found guilty of one of
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 4: the biggest defamations in American history, but that alone, I
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 4: don't think he should be allowed back on X. And
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 4: Elon Musk has banned a lot of people from X,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 4: by the way, so there's nothing unusual about banning people
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 4: from X, even in his free speech world. And I
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 4: think he does a lot of good for free speech,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 4: Elon Musk. But there are limits, of course there are.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 4: But generally speaking, if you're not spewing hateful stuff, which
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 4: is good. Remember somebody listened to Alex Jones and went
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 4: to the grave of one of the Sandy victims and
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 4: urinated on it. That's crazy because they believed it was
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 4: all stage. Imagine him being the family.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: Of that child, and then you end up hurting that guy.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 4: That was the consequence. Others were chased down the street
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 4: with people screaming abuse at them for being actors right
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 4: acting that their child had been obliterated by an AR
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 4: fifteen at school. And you know, one of them said
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 4: to me, I won't say which one, but one of
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 4: the parents did me. You know, they'd seen some pictures
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 4: and that the AR fifteen that this monster had used
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 4: Lanza created holes the size of golf balls in their child,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 4: multiple all over their body. Golf balls, right, And this
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 4: person decided Alex Jones to exploit that to make himself
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 4: very rich. And I think that's I would think most Americans, actually,
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 4: when you hear me spell it out like that, would
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 4: think that crosses a line.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 5: Okay, So when it comes to just to go back
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 5: real quick, Trump got taken off platform.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 4: I thought that was wrong.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: But the same reason though.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 4: He shouldn't have been because and this is a different friends,
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 4: I think world leaders, everything they say is a matter
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 4: of historical record.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 5: Now, when Trump's pushing conspiracy theories.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 4: They took off They took off Trump, and they kept
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 4: on the leader of the Taliban, they kept on the
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 4: I toler in Iran, they kept Vladimir Putin's account. Right,
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 4: So are you comfortable that Trump is the one that's removed.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 5: But is telling people like you said, they inject themselves
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 5: to kill COVID pushing, pushing YouTube conspiracy.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 4: Is spewing conspiracy bullshit about Ukraine being a bunch of
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 4: Nazis and the nazifying them. That's true all the time.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 4: But Tanaban is spewing their bullshit on Twitter, the I
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 4: toler is talking about eradicating Israel.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: So how do you regularly this?
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 4: I think I draw a distinction between ordinary members of
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 4: the public and world leaders.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 5: What the world leaders worse, because I think we're going
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 5: to have some Aweson world war the.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 4: World world leaders. I think everything they say and do
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 4: is a matter of historical record. You can't hide it away. Trump,
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 4: I would argue, has got more popular by being taken
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 4: off Twitter.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: But how is pizzagate historical record?
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 4: It's not so people, So I think what Elstone is great,
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 4: He's brought in the community notes right. So now you
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 4: can see in real time under these tweets that people
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 4: put up which our conspiracy theory nonsense, you can see
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 4: the true story immediately that was lacking before. So these
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 4: things would fly around without anyone, you know, being able
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 4: to look at it and see the real story underneath it.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: Nothing that's gonna work.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 5: It's like we were talking this morning about the line,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 5: though I don't know because he hears the thing we
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 5: were talking about.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 4: Take every world leader of acts.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 5: It depends if we keep on if what they're doing
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 5: that much power, and what they're doing is inciting violence
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 5: in any way, shape or form, because the truth of
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 5: the matter appears people are stupid and like even with
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 5: the water marks and the things that are saying this
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 5: isn't true, people will say they're just saying this isn't
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 5: true because they don't want it to believe.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 4: I hear, I hear, But it's very different once you
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 4: go down that line, the line I've drawn for better
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 4: or worse, and your listeners can make their own minds up.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 4: I think world leaders of any kind it's historical record,
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 4: and if you take one down, you've got to take
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 4: them all off, because a lot of them say bad things.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 5: I want to ask you too about the two thousand
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 5: and four pictures. You couldn't fact check them.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 4: Then, well we tried.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: It is way worse now, So how do you fact checks?
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think the fake news thing, the way
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 4: artificial intelligence can now have someone like me. I've seen
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 4: a clip played at a Ted talk actually of me
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 4: promoting guns. I looked it was me and it sounded
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 4: like this is what I was saying, but it was
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 4: fake and saying the complete opposite to what I was thinking.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 4: And that's going to happen more and more and more.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 3: And it's very easy to do now.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 4: It's incredibly easy to do. You see it all the time.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 4: It's very very scary, and I don't think anyone's quite
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 4: worked out what you do about this. It's so it's
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 4: it's a bit like artificial intelligence generally. I interview Professor
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 4: Stephen Hawking in the last interview before he died up
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 4: at his office at Cambridge University, and I said, what's
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 4: the biggest threat to mankind? You went, When artificial intelligence
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 4: learns how to self design, it's all over, because they'll
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 4: decide pretty quickly humans are ridiculous and should just be killed.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 4: And you can tell that a lot of the experts,
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 4: like Elon mask Andals think we're getting quite close to
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 4: that point. It's what they called for the six month
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 4: pause recently, and a letter signed by a thousand of them.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 4: They know that AI is incredibly exciting and groundbreaking and
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 4: brilliant and can probably save a lot of lives and
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 4: all the rest of it. They also know that in
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 4: the wrong hands, AI can be a lethal weapon, and
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 4: this is going to be the dilemma for this generation.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 4: What do we do about this? And then go back
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 4: to what you said the internet. I remember the Internet,
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 4: but this is far more dangerous.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: They go back to what you said. I don't think
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: any world leader should be allowed to be on social media.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 5: I think as soon as you become a world leader,
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 5: you have to give it because it's too dangerous.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 4: Well, that is a very interesting fake tweet the AI.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 4: I think you're all in or all out. Yes, so
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 4: I'm with you. I would personally still argue they should
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 4: be on, but I think that's a that's a good
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 4: argument to say you take them all off. The world
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 4: leaders can't tweet. They can make official statements, and the
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 4: media can determine how they report those, and if they're
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 4: spewing untruths and deliberate lies which are going to lead
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 4: to potential violence, the media can say that in real
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 4: time because I don't see.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: That's a difficult thing because you always say go where
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: people are right, and a lot of people are not
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: looking at the news for the press conference.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 3: It's horrible. We could say it's bad, but people are not.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: People will follow Barack Obama, Donald Trump Biden faster than
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: they'll watch a news clip.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 5: On but those official statements will get pressed, get seen
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 5: that through social media. You know, I just think it's
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 5: too dangerous because if I know world leaders are on
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 5: social media, how do I know this tweet isn't real
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 5: if it's a fake tot? How do I notice ai
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 5: video that's posted on them?
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 4: People? People hear this nuts. It's like like every world
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 4: leader of freedom of speech. But I get your argument.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 4: I get your argument, and that that to me makes
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 4: more sense than piecemeal taking some off and leaving others
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 4: on where there's a rank hypocrisy. I think you've got
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 4: to have the same rule for all world leaders, right
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 4: because you could. You could, I could, as like I
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 4: did with Obama earlier. You can create an argument for
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 4: and against almost anybody, particularly if they're a president of
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 4: a big country. So I think you've got to be
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 4: all in or all out.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 5: And I had just a few more questions you You
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 5: you talked earlier about Tony Blair and you said you
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 5: were anti war.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 4: What was it? The ir War?
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Why aren't you anti war now? In regard to
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: the well I felt.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 4: What I felt with the Iraq war was I felt
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 4: that it was America and Britain going after the wrong
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 4: country for nine to eleven and they hadn't produced evidence
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 4: to me that Saddam Hussein o mass destruction and they
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 4: never found those weapons of mass destructions. So the war
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 4: was fought on a false pretext and therefore, in my view,
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 4: actually was illegal. Tony Blair also didn't get a second
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 4: UN resolution mandating warfare, which he thought he was going
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 4: to get, and when he didn't get, he went along
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 4: with America anyway, and I think it was a catastrophic
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 4: mistake that led to twenty years of hell in the
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 4: Middle East, not least the rise of Isis, who sprang
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 4: out of what happened. So I felt there was no
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 4: justification for the war, no moral justification, no actual justification
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 4: presented that was true turned out to be to be false.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: So you're that anti war, you were just no.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 4: What is the moral justification. So the case in the
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 4: latest stage of the Israel Gaza situation is that on
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 4: October the seventh, Israel was subjected to one of the
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 4: worst terror attacks of modern times. Medieval barbarism involving the
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 4: most horrendous assaults on women, children and so on. And
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 4: they had not just a moral justification to defend themselves
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 4: against that attack and to go after those who perpetrated it,
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 4: but actually have a duty to their citizens to do that,
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 4: not least because her Mass, through their official spokesman, said,
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 4: our intention afterwards is to do this again and again
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 4: and again. Right. So there's a clear and present justification
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 4: morally for Israel to respond to her Mass. Now here's
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 4: where it gets very complicated. A mass have thirty five
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 4: thousand terrorists, as I call them. You can call them
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 4: wherever you want, but to me, they're terrorists, and they
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 4: live immersed amongst a population which is just over two
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 4: million people, of which half are under eighteen and just
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 4: under a third are under ten. So you have an
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 4: extraordinary number of innocent children as part of the mass population,
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 4: but living amongst them, embedded in their schools, the mosques,
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 4: the hospitals and sold We know this from the tunnel
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 4: system that her Mass deliberately created. You have a mass terrorists.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 4: How do you eradicate a mass thirty five thousand terrorists
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 4: who have done that with out a lot of civilians
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 4: getting killed, and so I've continually been asking and saying
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 4: to people, I have a moral qundary about this. I
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 4: don't know what is proportionate. I do know you cannot
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 4: allow her mass to continue running Gaza after what they did.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 4: They are a terror group who will commit more and
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 4: more acts of terror. But is Israel's response now, as
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 4: many people claim it's self an act of terror, is
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 4: it disproportionate to what happened to them in October the seventh.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 4: They've killed many more people, including many more children. As
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 4: a father, it just absolutely destroys me to see these
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 4: scenes coming out of Gaza. But you know, I understand
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 4: why Israel feels this visceral need to eradicate her Mass.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 4: I do what I don't accept with it from Israel
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 4: is any desire by them out of this to continue
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 4: having an occupation of the Palestinian people. And when you
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 4: go back to the history the displacement of hundreds of
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 4: thousands of Palestinians back in ninety forty eight, you can
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 4: you see that people were oppressed and have been occupied
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 4: and the constant flare ups in this conflict throughout the
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 4: next seventy years or as a consequence of a large
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 4: number of people being very badly treated. But that doesn't
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 4: justify anything that happened October the seventh. So yes, I
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 4: understand the history. But I think the difference between Iraq
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 4: and this is that there's a clear moral justification for
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 4: going after the people that perpetrated it. The problem is
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 4: how do you minimize civilian casualties, which happened in any conflict.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 4: And I would say the argument that Israel put forward,
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 4: which is, you know, a reasonable argument. Nobody had these
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 4: debates about what happened when we went after Isis in
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 4: Syria or Iraq and many civilians could be many children
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 4: were killed.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 5: Then well we didn't see it. Social media change.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 4: Exactly exactly, so we see it in real time. I
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 4: have enormous sympathy for Palestinian people. I think for a
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 4: long time they've been oppressed. There's been an obvious occupation.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 4: I think Israelis who try and deny that themselves. We
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 4: saw that when they were able to turn off the Israelis.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 4: The energy supply like that, the water supply like that,
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 4: the food supply like that. Imagine how Americans would feel
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 4: if one of your neighboring countries had that power, you
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 4: would consider yourselves to be oppressed and occupied. Nobody outside
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 4: of America should have the power to do that to you.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 4: That's how Palestinians feel. And I completely understand that is
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 4: there a war crome. Well, the United Nations has found
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 4: against Israel many times, you know, but to what consequence.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 4: I'm a lot of sympathy for Israelis You've had to
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 4: live under a hail of rockets since a mass took
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 4: charge in two thousand and five, and living in daily
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 4: fear of that this is an awful conflict. I would
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 4: simply tell people that where they think there's no hope,
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 4: I remember Norman Ireland and the IRA and the Loyalists
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 4: being at war, and the terrorism went on from IRA
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 4: towards the British and so on, and eventually they did
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 4: find peace and in fact, the people engaged in hating
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 4: and fighting each other ended up working together. You can
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 4: do this. I just think that a mass to me
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 4: on now, behaving like isis a nihilistic terror group who
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 4: don't care how many innocent people they kill, and they
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 4: just want to see the eradication of Israel. You can't
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 4: have that if you're Israel. But it's a horribly complicated situation,
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 4: and I don't have easy answers other than out of it.
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 4: You've got to try and get everybody in that region
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 4: together to forge a two state solution where they can
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 4: live side by side in peace. And it was achieved
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 4: in Northern Ireland after many decades of war, so it
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 4: can be done, but you need strong leaders. I don't
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 4: think that either side has good leaders.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 5: What you gave is a very nuanced answer, and I
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 5: think most of these topics and issues that we try
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 5: to discuss there is nuanced, but everybody picks aside. You
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 5: said some earlier about social media, which I think is true.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 5: I don't think people think for themselves more. I think
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 5: people go on social media to see how they should
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 5: feel the issues.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 4: And they exist in echo chambers where they only follow
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 4: their own tribe, right. So they go in and they
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 4: want to have a view, and they want to read
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 4: their view reinforced all day long, and anyone who deviates
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 4: from that view on either side any of these things,
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 4: whether it's Trump, whether it's Israel, Hamas, whether it's Brexit
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 4: in England, you know, whatever the issue is, whether it's
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 4: COVID vaccines. This nuance is crucial, crucial, and I'm not
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 4: saying I'm blameless. I remember getting very angry about people
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 4: who didn't have vaccines, for example, when it was believed
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 4: because the scientist told us that you couldn't transmit the
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 4: virus if you had the vaccine, because then it wasn't
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 4: just about you, it was about you infecting some person
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 4: and killing them. But when they changed their minds and said, actually,
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 4: it looks like you can transmit it even if you
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 4: have the vaccine, I completely reversed my position. People went
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 4: disgusting you turn, well, yeah, because is that you turned
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 4: the advice?
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: No information now?
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 4: But I was two centsorious about people who hadn't had
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 4: a bag. It should be personal choice. What you put
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 4: in your body should be personal choice. I accept that,
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 4: and I got irrationally angry about that because everyone was
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 4: a bit irrational through the pandemic. But on Twitter, there's
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 4: no room for nuance, and there has to be. If
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 4: everyone could have conversations that we're having about all complicated issues,
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 4: we get a lot further than we do having them
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 4: on social media, where nobody gives an inch side.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 5: We're not trying to be right, We're just putting out
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 5: there on the conversation. Yeah, you have two more questions.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 5: What were your thoughts when you got called to replace
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 5: Larry King in twenty eleven and were you shocked when
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 5: it didn't work?
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 4: Uh? Well, I would argue about whether it worked or not.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 4: I mean I did it for nearly four years. I
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 4: could have carried on working at Seeing It, and they
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 4: offered me a new gig to do just big interviews
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 4: in several series a year, which I ended up not accepting.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 4: So it wasn't like Seeing then fired me. They offered
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 4: me a new gig, but it wouldn't be the daily thing.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 4: The problem with the daily thing for me was I
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 4: wasn't American and there were so many issues, not least
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 4: guns which kept coming back. Or I just had an
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 4: implacable different view to what most of the viewers would
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 4: be thinking. You know, even most C and M viewers
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 4: probably have a pretty relaxed view about guns, whereas I
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 4: looked at it as a Britain when you have more
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 4: people murdered by guns a day and I think the
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 4: next twenty civilized countries of the world combined. You know,
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 4: we in Britain have an average of about two gun
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 4: desks a year. America has eighty thousand or something a year,
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 4: of which I think half a suicide. Whatever it is,
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 4: these are crazy numbers. But ultimately I realized that it's
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 4: a matter for Americans. It's your country, it's your culture.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 4: I understand why people believe in gun ownership here. I
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 4: understand why there are four hundred million guns in circulation.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 4: Then you probably want to need to defend yourself with
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 4: your own I get it. I get it, Okay, So
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 4: it's not it's not my debate to have. So there
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 4: was a cultural problem there that actually I went to
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 4: CNN to do big interviews, and I did more big
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 4: interviews in nearly four years. And I think probably anyone
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 4: outside Larry has ever done for them heard about you.
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 4: And the interviews were amazing. I'm an interview you know,
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 4: Bill Clinton twice, President Carter three times, Oprah Winfrey, the
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 4: Dalai Lama, the president of Iran, almost every celebrity you
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 4: care to mention. And so when I look back at them,
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 4: I had an amazing I mean, I did twelve hundred
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 4: shows and I had a great time. But I felt
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 4: and CNN felt, we had a long chat, we just
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 4: felt a kind of I'd done my time, it was
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 4: I missed home. I'm very British really. I like pubs,
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 4: are kind of pubs. I like cricket, I like proper
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 4: football with a round ball. I'm an Arsenal fanatic. I
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 4: love going to watch that. It would be like an Arsenal.
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 4: You know Arsenal.
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 5: I said, I'm like, you can do that.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 4: I definitely miss you. Misheard me, Arsenal. Although we do
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 4: say we're going up the arts on Saturday, which can
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 4: be a bit misleading. But no, I loved all those things,
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 4: and it would be a bit like I would I
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 4: would acqudit to if you suddenly went to London and
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 4: you did this show from London for nearly four years,
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 4: and you'd already lived in America, pretty much like America's
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 4: Got Talent for six years, so for ten years, I
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 4: pretty much lived a lot of my time in the US,
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 4: and when I was at CNN, probably for forty eight
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 4: weeks of the year. If you did that, I reckon
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 4: after four years, you'd be gagging to get back to
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 4: New York, right, to get back to your friends, your
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 4: old friends, your family, but also your culture. It's simple
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 4: thing like I would going to a cafe in New
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 4: York or LA and they'd all be talking about American
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 4: cultural stuff politics. I loved it, but American sport not
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 4: so much, right. So they'd be talking about the big
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 4: football match, or the big baseball game, or the basketball.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 4: But basketball is my favorite American sports. I could have
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 4: a little bit of a chat about that, but not
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 4: any expert view or any history right, of any history
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 4: at all. When I go to my local cafe in London,
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 4: there's all the guys in there, the same people, male, female, old, young,
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 4: and we're all talking about the big arsehole game of
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 4: night before the big cricket match. That our sport, our culture, right,
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 4: And I miss that so much and I love that
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 4: so much. Now I have the best of all words
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 4: where I do It show, which is filmed mainly in London,
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 4: but for about three months of the year I come
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 4: to America. I love that I come in and I
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 4: stay each time just long enough for neither of us
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 4: to get fed up with each other, and then I
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 4: get on a plane and go off again. And that's fine,
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 4: And I prefer.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 5: That last question, probably the biggest thing we talked about
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 5: in this whole hour and a half. Is it true
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 5: that you play boy the homeless bird Lady in Home
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 5: Alone too.
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 4: No, it is not true it You've got to prove it.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 4: Why don't you ask the actress who plays the bird
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 4: lady Brenda exists. It's a woman. What's her name, Brenda Friker.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 3: You must have got that before.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: Sounds like you made it up before.
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 4: I had to do my Christmas card based on miss
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 4: two years ago because I've got so many people going
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 4: on about it. It is not me, and every time
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 4: that bloody movie airs, which is every Christmas, I get
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 4: bombarded on Twitter with Ahamehame. It's not me. I have
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 4: been in nine other movies playing myself, which have grossed
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 4: over two billion dollars. So you're actually you won't realize it,
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 4: but I'm one of the biggest movie stars you've ever had.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: Morgan, Ladies and gentlemen, we appreciate you for joining us
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: this morning.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: It's to say thank you so much.
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 3: And it's the Breakfast Club Good morning, wake that airs
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 3: up in the morning.
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: Breakfast Club