Latest / Founder Talk with Alex Sheridan / The Brutal Truth About Building A Great Culture No Founder Wants to Hear (Burt Levy)

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The Brutal Truth About Building A Great Culture No Founder Wants to Hear (Burt Levy) · Founder Talk with Alex Sheridan

0:00
Bert Levy, welcome to the show. Thanks for having.
0:03
Me, I have you on founder of Revenue Mountain, so, so you got
0:07
some things with you. You can't prepare.
0:09
Maybe you're more prepared than I.
0:10
Am no I just you know, I have a few notes if they need to refer
0:13
to them in case I get stumped. Well, let me ask you this how?
0:16
How would you just set context for the audience?
0:19
How would you describe your area of expertise and what you do in
0:22
a sentence or two? Recovering media professional
0:25
that has managed to transition from major market media to
0:32
solving problems in the technology space.
0:34
And really my core focus is to help business owners grow their
0:37
revenue, hence the name Revenue Mountain, to grow their revenue
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through the effective use and procurement of the right
0:44
technology solutions. When you say recovering media
0:47
professional, what do you mean by that?
0:49
Well, you know, I spent 22 years in media and when you have an
0:54
opportunity to work at, you know, what I'd call a top 8
0:58
newspaper in the market in one of the top three markets in the
1:03
country, you know, LA, New York, Chicago.
1:07
I mean, it was the greatest professional gift in my life.
1:10
And there was just something really exciting about being in
1:15
media. Now, again, I wasn't a writer.
1:17
I didn't write for the paper, but I I was on the business side
1:21
and see. What did you do?
1:23
Well, I was really in charge of that and of advertising.
1:26
I was the advertising director at the Sun Times.
1:28
I oversaw the entertainment division.
1:30
So my biggest categories of business were motion picture
1:33
entertainment, Hollywood studios.
1:35
You might not remember, but many remember those Fridays where you
1:39
pick up a paper, be it the Trib, the Sun Times, and you go to the
1:42
entertainment section. There's 25 pages of movie ads
1:45
for you to go see. You know, that was all me.
1:48
And that was the newspaper heyday back then, too.
1:50
Right. Well, it wasn't that long ago,
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but you know what, you've got younger studio executives coming
1:54
up. Yeah, that really grew up not
1:57
reading a newspaper. And so they immediately start to
1:59
think that that marketing's not viable, right?
2:02
And I could see it towards the end of the revenue starting to
2:05
decrease. And I mean, listen, the only way
2:09
I ever look for a movie was in the newspaper in showtimes.
2:13
And now everything became digital.
2:16
And I started using that and I could see where the transition
2:19
went. Because sight sound in motion is
2:21
really the best way for them to market films when you can see
2:26
it. You know, trailers, right?
2:28
Oh for sure, but. The true way they marketed, the
2:31
best way for them to market movies was word of mouth.
2:34
That's why a lot of the studios do advanced screenings, you
2:40
know, before the movie opens to the public, you'll come in two
2:43
weeks before you'll do a screening.
2:47
And then hopefully you tell 50 people that I just saw the
2:50
greatest movie. And that's really the way they
2:53
they did it. But you know, when I say
2:54
recovering it, it was a, a, a lifestyle and a, a life that was
2:59
just so electric. And and then you move into other
3:03
areas and they're not as sexy, not as glamorous.
3:06
But you know what, I wasn't by selling advertising in, in the
3:11
newspaper, which is really at the end of the day, what we did.
3:14
We were responsible for the revenue that made the paper run,
3:16
that paid the pressman, that paid the editorial people.
3:21
You know, at the end of the day, I mean, I, I didn't think that I
3:26
was doing so much to make the world a better place.
3:30
And you know, when you get into other areas like now myself, I
3:34
mean, just through technology, we can help make world better
3:37
through better technology. You know, as technology works on
3:44
on being being better, being better technology, you know,
3:50
people have to work on being better people.
3:52
And, you know, so that's kind of where I say I'm recovering.
3:56
You know, I don't get up every day with the with the sexiness
4:00
of you never know what's going to happen.
4:02
I mean, I just remember like 911, OK, when 911 happened.
4:06
They're clearing out downtown Chicago.
4:09
My wife's on the phone going when are you coming home?
4:11
I said, I can't leave. So what do you mean you can't
4:13
leave? She goes there.
4:14
I said, This is why you work in media.
4:17
I mean, it was all hands on deck that day.
4:20
You saw a columnist like, you know, Bill Swacker and and, and
4:28
others, Michael Sneed. They're they're in The Newsroom
4:31
trying to find out what schools are open or closed.
4:33
That's not what they do on a daily basis.
4:35
That's all hands on deck. That's the sexiness of being in
4:38
media. You know, having.
4:40
I had a client in the building that day.
4:43
I'll never forget this. Nancy Klasky, She was the
4:45
marketing director of Century Theaters in Evanston.
4:49
They're out of San Francisco at the time.
4:52
And, you know, who knew that 911 was going to happen?
4:56
And first thing she came in, her sister was in New York.
4:59
She needed to find her sister was OK.
5:01
I gave her my office. I closed the door.
5:03
I said, it's your office, Do what you need to do.
5:07
She found out that her sister was OK.
5:10
And then we took care of our business.
5:11
We were working on the grand opening of the Evanston Theater.
5:14
And then out of the blue, she says to me, God, she goes, I
5:18
wonder what a working newsroom would look like today.
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OK, that's the sexiness of it. Maybe the wrong day because I
5:25
love taking people on tours of the paper showing the presses.
5:28
That would be cool, yeah. And I said, you know, I don't
5:32
know if today be the right day to go up there because it's
5:35
pretty crazy. But I said, you know what, I
5:37
have a really good relationship with the editors.
5:40
At the time, it was Michael Cooke and John Cruikshank.
5:42
So let's go take a walk. I go.
5:44
But we're going to be like, we're going to navigate the
5:46
perimeter. We're going to just slide along
5:48
the walls. We're not going to be walking up
5:50
going, what's going on? And we were doing that.
5:54
And I happened to see the editors.
5:56
They were working. They're putting out an extra
5:58
paper, you know, extra, extra, read all about it at noon.
6:02
They were putting out a paper and they were trying to decide
6:05
the headline. You know, what do we terror do?
6:08
We do unspeakable horror. And they're playing with
6:11
different headlines and different photos.
6:13
And they saw us standing there. And he said, like it was a
6:16
normal day, what are you guys doing?
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I said, this is Nancy Glaskey from, you know, Century
6:21
Theaters. And she just kind of wanted to
6:23
take an idea, see what a working newsroom look like since here,
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come here, you'll help us. And he brought her over there.
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They showed her different images.
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She picked kind of what she thought.
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And an hour later, she's holding that paper in her hand.
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It was really, that's crazy. So when I say recovering, you
6:39
recover from that, 'cause that that I'll never have an
6:41
experience that will duplicate that.
6:44
When you saw like, you know, because you kind of lived
6:46
through it, you saw a kind of the transition out of the
6:49
typical media, right, the traditional media.
6:51
And even you see it now today with like traditional TV shows,
6:54
a lot of these people have left the big shows to start their own
6:56
podcast or it's just so spread out now.
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And you know, you don't have to be on a major network to get
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millions of eyeballs. In fact, I'd argue that a lot of
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people doing it independently are driving more traffic and
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views than even the big stations and.
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Look at some of these, look at some of the influences aren't on
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Instagram, right? They have more.
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They have more followers than than.
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Newspapers have subscribed. Exactly.
7:16
So was it like, I'd be curious to go back?
7:19
When did it first become apparent that the Internet was
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going to replace traditional media and things like
7:24
newspapers? Because you had to hear about
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it. And then in the beginning, it
7:27
was probably like social media or even AI in the very beginning
7:29
where it's like, oh, this fad, people are always going to still
7:32
want a paper. They're going to still want to
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turn on their TV and watch the news.
7:34
And then slowly but surely, you start to say, wow, instead of
7:38
waiting for the newspaper, people can click on one button
7:40
and they can see the article, they can click on the movie
7:42
trailer, they can buy the tickets, they can.
7:44
It's just like changed our entire way of living.
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And I think AI, we'll talk about that later, is going to do that,
7:49
is doing that now. I'm curious what that was like.
7:53
I started seeing it early 2000s, maybe 2004, 2005.
8:02
The one thing that where I didn't feel it that much a we're
8:06
a major market. Yeah, big movie market.
8:09
They cut to smaller markets first, like they stopped.
8:12
You know, there's a way that studios buy media.
8:17
You know, they have market designations.
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New York and LA are AA markets. There's a rule if you run into
8:23
AA market on a movie week opening, you get facing pages, 2
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pages, A market, full page AB market, you know, half page C
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market, quarter page D market. Well, they started eliminating
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their DNC market so they really only had AA and B.
8:39
So if you were anything less than that, you stopped getting
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business. That didn't affect me.
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Plus I had the Rodger Ebert effect.
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You know, Rodger Ebert was my film critic and you know, I, I,
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I never had a studio that said I can't see you when you come to
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LA. It was always, and I'm not
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saying that I I know other papers that newspapers would or
9:00
or studios would see them every other year.
9:02
Can I pause you real quick on that?
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So Roger Eber was your news, your your movie critic.
9:07
Movie critic what? Does that mean?
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And how was your interaction with him?
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Because I'm sure people know that name.
9:11
Yeah, Roger Eber was peeled surprise, one of the only, only
9:15
critic to win a peeled surprise and, and and film and, you know,
9:20
critique and films. He had a huge voice, huge
9:25
influence on the industry. Rodger taught me more about life
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than he taught me about movies. But the one thing Rodger did
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teach about movies is that you can do anything with the camera.
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Anything. And if you look at a movie like
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Blur Witch Project, I think they filmed that movie for $35,000 on
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a handheld camera and made 1,000,000 millions of dollars.
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You can do anything with the camera.
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I believe that with content, modern day content.
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Absolutely correct. Yeah.
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Rodger was fantastic, great human being, did anything he
10:01
could to help us without ever crossing the line of integrity.
10:05
He's never asked me once in 10 years how much a movie studio
10:08
spends. Why?
10:10
Because he doesn't want to know. He doesn't need to know.
10:12
He doesn't want to know that the film from Pick a Studio, Warner
10:18
Brothers, Disney Dream Works, whatever that this week he's
10:21
going to have to say that your movie sucks.
10:23
He doesn't want to know what revenue, and I've never had one
10:26
time a studio come to me and say we're pulling out of the paper
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because we got a bad review. OK.
10:32
So you're seeing the, you're seeing the small markets go
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away. What's happening next then?
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The major markets are strong for a while and then I think in
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about 2008 I started seeing big bigger drop offs.
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I left the movie category to take a publisher's job at North
10:52
Shore magazine, which was a product that sometimes owned.
10:56
When I took over the category it was about 17 and a half, $18
11:00
million in revenue. And when I left I gave him
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$414,000,000 budget. So I lost.
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I've called $4 million in in 10 years.
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That's not a lot of money when you look look at it like it's
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only 400,000 a year and I have other silos of business where I
11:18
can conceptually make it up. The year I was gone, the
11:24
sometimes lost six and a half, $1,000,000 and I lost four.
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I lost what I say I lose. 4 and 10.
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Years 4 and 10 years they lost 6 1/2 and one.
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And I'm not saying they lost it because I wasn't there, but
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that's part of the other problem that occurs with media these
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days is they're they're really putting unqualified people in,
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in jobs and hoping they hit a home run.
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You're putting the person replace me and never sold the
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paper before it, never managed. People had no relationships with
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Hollywood studios. And it took me a while to figure
12:02
it out, you know, But I had AI, had a runway to learn.
12:05
And I embrace myself in it. And I think they just expected
12:08
the business to come and it didn't.
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And after that, I don't think there was any recovery from it.
12:16
And then you pivoted to Revenue Mountain at some point right
12:20
over. The years, yeah, I I got into
12:22
the tech space initially through the outsource HR space.
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It was a high tech, high touch model.
12:28
I like the industry, but I didn't love it.
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And Fast forward the clock, in 2021, I got introduced to 319
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nineteen 329 year old entrepreneurs that it started a
12:44
a technology consulting firm specializing in data automation,
12:48
integration and low code, no code application development.
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They brought in about a it was an 18 month old startup.
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They brought in about $600,000 between the three of them while
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also doing data architecture, the automation, the integration.
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And that was, that was really their core competency was the,
13:08
was the tech stuff, not the sales stuff.
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And they just didn't, they wanted to offload the sales.
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And they were smart enough. As I always say, most 29 year
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olds hire 29 year old friends. I'm not 29, but they were smart
13:23
enough to hire somebody with a big network, well connected and
13:27
knowledgeable in the marketplace and a really worked out well for
13:31
both of us. I think I started with them in
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August of 21 and then January of 22, I had about $350,000 of
13:43
project work on the table for them to begin working on and
13:47
billing. And two of these companies were
13:50
billion dollar companies that they never would have gone in on
13:53
in the wrong. And Fast forward the clock two
13:57
years, I've have over about $900,000 in revenue to them.
14:03
The byproduct of that success was I had tech companies reach
14:06
out to me going, can you do this for us?
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Yes and no was the answer. I can, but I can't.
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I can't do it on this platform that I'm on now.
14:18
And even if I were to tell you I would do it on the side, what
14:24
does that look like before 9:00 and after 5?
14:26
It'll never work. No, because at some point I'm
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going to be forced to make an ethical decision because
14:33
somebody's going to cancel a meeting that that I had
14:35
scheduled at 5:30 and move it to 4:30.
14:37
And now I'm, do I work on my employer's dime on that.
14:41
That's not a way I grew up. That's not something I just, I,
14:46
I couldn't do it. I didn't think it was right.
14:48
I didn't think it was ethical. I didn't think it was moral.
14:51
And so hence the birth of of revenue Mountain.
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Most people start a business and they have to go find clients.
14:59
I, I, I had the clients and then wrapped a business around it and
15:02
I created Revenue Mountain around many of the things that
15:08
I've done reasonably well in business and leadership.
15:11
If you are not growing in revenue every year as a
15:14
business, is your business slowly dying do you think?
15:17
Well, one thing I like to say is if you have a business with no
15:22
revenue, you don't have a business, you have a hobby.
15:25
What if it's just flat? Flat is the new up, Flat is the
15:30
new up. What do you mean?
15:32
You know, listen, some years if I mean we used to see it in the
15:35
in, in the newspaper business, you know, if you did, if you
15:38
did, you know of of 40 million last year and you're projected
15:43
to do 40 million this year, it's like a win.
15:45
Yeah, you didn't die. You.
15:46
Didn't die so flat is the new up but.
15:48
No, I think if that's in a industry that is kind of fading
15:52
out, right. So when you agree that if you're
15:54
in an industry that is not on an upward trend, you know, let's
15:58
say you're a newspaper industry. Well, you have to reinvent.
16:00
You have to reinvent yourself. And that's where you, you, you
16:03
said if you're a newspaper industry, the newspaper
16:05
industry, from what I see. And again, I'm much farther
16:08
removed from it now than I was, you know, even 10 years ago.
16:13
But you can't run this business the same way that you ran it 20
16:19
years ago. You have to evolve, you have to
16:22
innovate, you have to create. And I don't see a lot of that.
16:28
Just one example. I mean, obviously newspaper was
16:33
was is dependent on circulation. You know, people, you want
16:37
people to want your product. And not only do you want it, I
16:39
want it to come to my house every day and I'll pay you to do
16:42
that. So I had a subscription to the
16:44
Sun Times for, oh God, I don't know, 22 plus years.
16:50
And so when my subscription ended, I intentionally did not
16:52
renew it because I wanted to see how long it would take them to
16:58
contact me about renewing my subscription and offering me a
17:03
rate, which they probably would do, that was lower than what I
17:06
was paying before. That was their business model.
17:10
You know, when you sell price, you rent business.
17:12
When you sell value, you own it. That's right.
17:15
And they were never, never about the value.
17:17
It was always price, always. You know what for?
17:19
For for $5 a month, we can give you daily Sunday and they never
17:24
called and my zip code, which was a woman zip code that's a
17:32
that's a treasure zip code from Target, Macy's, Kohl's, Penny's
17:40
because those companies do so much insert business and they
17:43
distribute inserts by zip codes. Womat happened to be a one of
17:49
the more wealthier demographics in the in the in the in the
17:54
Chicago region. And they never called.
17:56
And I thought it was mind boggling.
17:58
But yet any time they did layoffs, nobody from circulation
18:01
got laid off. It was all get rid of people
18:03
that bring in the revenue, we'll get rid of them.
18:05
And you know The funny thing, layoffs never existed before
18:08
1980. There's no such thing as a
18:10
layoff. Nobody got laid off Really.
18:12
Yeah, there was. You never heard of it, but.
18:16
Well, what would they do if they were in a downturn or a?
18:19
Maybe, maybe, maybe do more business, maybe work harder.
18:23
Just wasn't. An option to leave people off.
18:25
I never really saw it happen before in 1980 and then all of a
18:28
sudden it became a trade sheet thing to do but.
18:30
Now with the tech companies like oh we laid off 10,000 people,
18:33
it's like Jesus. Now what I would do, and this is
18:36
just me, instead of a few people suffering a lot, I'd have
18:41
everybody suffer a little. So what does that mean?
18:44
What does that mean? I'll go to a furlough program.
18:47
Everybody in the company, from the janitor, the CEO, got to
18:51
take a month of unpaid, unpaid leave.
18:54
You don't have to take it all in one time.
18:56
You can take a week here, a week there.
18:58
You could take 4 weeks in a row. But everybody has to do that.
19:02
That's what we need to do to survive.
19:05
Well, you know what, You just cut everybody a 12th of their
19:08
salary and they're jumping up and down.
19:10
They still got their benefits. They still have a job.
19:13
They'll figure out how to make it work.
19:14
It hurts a little, but not a lot.
19:16
And then what you see happening in a lot of these situations
19:21
when when you just lay people off, you say, I'm sorry, you
19:25
can't be here anymore or having a bad year.
19:27
You got to go. So you say you lay off 15% of
19:30
your workforce. Do you think the balance of your
19:33
workforce is sitting there ready to innovate and pivot?
19:35
No, they're like scared going, please just don't come from me,
19:39
right? They're not thinking about
19:41
anything else except just don't fire me.
19:43
And you don't get creativity and innovation out of.
19:45
I'm scared I might lose my job today.
19:47
You're in survival mode. Right.
19:48
So here's here's the opposite of that.
19:51
Now you got people that start helping each other.
19:53
Yeah, start rallying. Around so I might see you for
19:56
example, and maybe you're a new father.
20:00
You're 1520 years younger than me, if not more.
20:04
And maybe it's more painful for you to take those four weeks.
20:07
And it's less painful for me because I'm going to retire in 5
20:10
to 8 years, so to speak. I saw this happen live.
20:13
And So what I do is I said, you know what, Alex, I'm going to
20:16
trade with you. I'm going to take on one of your
20:19
weeks. So you only have to take three
20:20
of them paid and, and, and I'll take 5.
20:24
And that's what employees start doing is they start taking care
20:27
of each other. And that's truly how you build a
20:29
culture and a business. So you take care of each other,
20:32
you help each other. And that's sometimes, but I
20:36
don't know if companies give the thought to furlough, but it's
20:40
better that everybody suffers a little than a few people suffer
20:43
a real lot. I do like that, especially when
20:46
you, you know, you sometimes hear these stories about how
20:48
they laid off 1000 people, but then the CEO is making the most
20:52
money they've ever made. And to me, it's just like, how
20:53
could you, how could you feel good about taking them?
20:56
I mean, especially they, most of them do not need the money.
20:58
You know, it's like, I don't know how you wouldn't say, hey
21:00
guys, I'm a lead the way. Getting a bonus?
21:03
Getting a bonus on the back of somebody that you laid off.
21:05
Yeah, terrible. Is horrible.
21:07
I saw towards the end of my tenure at the Sun Times, and
21:10
this isn't something I think you would read in the newspapers,
21:14
but somebody came up. They were trying to, they needed
21:18
to cut costs, so they wanted to sell the paper.
21:23
When Jim Tyree and his Mesereau Group bought the paper, they
21:27
wanted to get rid of it and they wanted to sell it.
21:29
And I think they were in the process of trying to sell it to
21:31
Michael Farrow, who wound up buying the Sun Times, bought his
21:34
way into the Tribune and then bought himself out of the market
21:38
from bad behavior. But they were trying to figure
21:42
out ways to lower cost, so they got every senior leader.
21:48
At the time I was not in that room.
21:50
You're talking head of HR, head of editorial, associate editor,
21:58
head of production of advertising, had a finance, had
22:01
a legal. You got all these people in a
22:04
room and you said we need to cut expenses by I don't know what
22:11
the number was. I'm just making it up.
22:13
Save $5,000,000 if you guys can accomplish that.
22:18
As a group, we have a pot over here of bonus money for each of
22:22
you and I think they all split a couple $1,000,000.
22:29
So what? What started happening?
22:32
Bob Jones makes 225,000 a year. We can cut him, but they don't
22:38
stop to realize that Bob Jones is that 225,000 he's making.
22:43
He's handling $90,000,000 in revenue, which is way more than
22:52
the 200,000. And they just, this is what
22:55
happens when you have bean counters running businesses is
22:58
that you start looking at numbers instead of people and
23:01
relationships. Because when you let people go,
23:03
and some of those people are your best relationship people at
23:06
any business, you're killing yourself.
23:08
Yeah, and they have relationships there and other
23:10
people start leaping and things like that.
23:12
So that's what they did. They laid off a bunch of people
23:14
in the paper, good people. And I always say you never mess
23:17
with the revenue generators, the people that are bringing in the
23:19
money. Yeah, for sure.
23:21
And they all, they all got paid. They all got paid for blowing up
23:24
somebody's life. And I thought that was wrong.
23:28
Well, we got a lot of founders and entrepreneurs, business
23:30
owners that listen to this show naturally.
23:32
And I, everyone I talked to, no one's trying to not grow their
23:35
revenue in 2026. Everyone wants to increase their
23:37
revenue and their quality of life and all that stuff for them
23:39
and their teams. Where do you start in a
23:42
business? If you want to grow the revenue
23:43
for a company and you're coming into that company and you're
23:46
going to look at everything, where do you start?
23:51
I had a, a saying that I use when I hired people and it was
23:54
hired for character training, for skill.
23:57
And a lot of businesses don't like doing that because as God,
24:00
we doesn't have experience. You don't have experience.
24:03
If you're worth your salt as a leader, you'll invest the time
24:06
to train somebody because they're bringing the things
24:09
they're bringing me. I can't teach, I can't teach
24:12
passion. I can't teach dedication.
24:15
I can't teach hard work. So if I can find somebody who,
24:19
you know, has those qualities, I'll invest in them and and and
24:23
and and bank on myself and my team to coach these people up.
24:28
So it all starts with the people.
24:30
OK, so you look at the team, you say who do we got?
24:32
Are we all aligned? Is it the right people?
24:35
Do we have the right mindset? Is are are we, are you, we or
24:39
me? You know, if you're me, I'm
24:41
pretty much not interested. But we've done a great job.
24:45
You know, back in my corporate days of hiring a lot of a lot of
24:48
we's. So we didn't really have that
24:50
problem. And what if you got someone
24:53
that's maybe not as hard working or they don't have that
24:55
initiative or you kind of got to come to them with?
24:57
So you're saying I inherited him because I wouldn't have hired
24:59
him? Right, exactly.
25:00
You come into a team, think about more, you come into a new
25:02
company now and you're evaluating somebody's listening
25:05
right now, founder, entrepreneur and they're thinking, all right,
25:08
we want to grow our revenue this year.
25:09
How do we do it? And so you're coming in, you're
25:11
saying, all right, well, first let's look at the team.
25:13
Let's breakdown. Do we have the right people in
25:15
the right roles? Are they performing?
25:16
What if you have someone that's not, that's not working as hard,
25:21
that is not just that doesn't have the initiative, the
25:23
passion? It's like you got to follow up
25:25
with them them every time you want something done.
25:27
Right. Well, I think when you start to
25:28
set the, the, the boundaries for developing culture, which is
25:33
usually all the things they don't like effective
25:36
communication, you know, hard work, making volume of
25:42
appointments, calls. And the other thing too is I
25:47
want not just people with those qualities, I want problem
25:49
solvers. That's right, solvers In every
25:53
business, if you can solve another person's problem, you
25:57
become invaluable. And that's kind of how I built
26:00
Revenue Mountain by solving problems in the tech space.
26:04
And when you could solve problems.
26:06
So I it was never about it. It should never be about selling
26:09
somebody something like if you've watched any of the other
26:12
podcasts I've been on or look at any of my posts and LinkedIn,
26:15
which I'm sure you have, I'd never pitch product.
26:19
That's not me. I try to give him informative
26:24
information. I try to give information that
26:27
people can learn from or maybe grow from.
26:30
And subliminally what you're doing is you're just selling you
26:33
as a human being. And if you sell yourself in the
26:36
right way, if you sell your corporate vision and the people
26:39
behind it in the right way, they're going to want more.
26:42
And that's where that's where the the business growth comes.
26:46
Well, I got a quick story on the team thing.
26:48
So I recently fired my podcast manager and he's overseas.
26:53
He's offshore, but he's part of our in house team.
26:56
And I fired him because I'd let him go because he didn't have
26:59
the initiative, didn't have the follow up, didn't wasn't
27:02
bringing. He's bringing problems, but not
27:03
new ideas, problems but not solutions.
27:05
You need to have to come to him with every little thing.
27:08
And at first I went into let me spend time with them, let me
27:11
coach him, let me train him. Maybe he's missing something.
27:13
And after a while, I said I just don't think he has the right
27:17
ingredients for this particular role.
27:19
He's not a bad person. I just don't think it was what I
27:20
was looking for someone to take it, run with it, come with new
27:23
ideas, see problems, solve them, do things without even me
27:26
asking. It was a really independent role
27:30
and I wondered if I made the right decision.
27:31
I was thinking, you know, did I make the right decision?
27:33
Or maybe he I just spent more time with them, but I brought in
27:37
someone new a week later after he was gone.
27:39
They're doing things he never did.
27:41
And he's doing things that this old person, not old, but like
27:45
this former podcast manager. Veteran manager.
27:49
He, this guy is doing things the old podcast manager wouldn't
27:53
have dreamed of and he's taking initiative.
27:56
The thumbnails are better, the titles are better.
27:58
I'm not even having to ask him to do things that he's just
28:00
boom, doing it. Hey, I saw a problem over here.
28:02
Let's think about reworking our process here.
28:04
Hey, I saw this was a little bit low.
28:05
Let's see if we can increase this.
28:07
I've got some ideas around it and I thought this is what I was
28:10
looking for. And the, the message that it
28:12
taught me is like, when it comes to your content team or your
28:14
team in general or whatever you're building, have a
28:17
standard, have a bar and don't, don't.
28:20
And you got to have standard and bar for yourself.
28:22
And I now have a sign behind me in my Home Office that says
28:25
excellence. And it's I demand excellence for
28:27
myself and I demand excellence from everyone else.
28:30
And if they don't meet that standard, I will work with them
28:32
to try to improve on it and give them a chance and opportunity.
28:35
But if they can't, they're gone. I.
28:38
And that was the best hire I made.
28:39
And now I'll still spend time with them, but it's taking us to
28:42
the next level not. Trying to keep up.
28:43
You get to work on your business instead of in your business.
28:46
Bingo. Bingo.
28:47
I, I'll tell you a real quick story.
28:49
I had a, a, a gentleman that worked on my team when I had the
28:55
major account team at the sun times and he'd usually stroll in
28:58
the office in 9:15 in the morning.
29:01
And you know the hours, the hours technically were 8:45 to
29:06
5:00. Now I didn't really care what
29:09
time you came in right as. Long as you've got yourself
29:12
done. As long as you got your work
29:13
done, and especially if you were up, I didn't, you know, I didn't
29:16
care what time you came in. Do whatever you need to do to
29:18
win. But when you're down and you're
29:22
strolling in at 9:15, it's just not a good look, right?
29:25
It's just not a good look. And so I brought him into my
29:29
office and I said, I got a question to ask you.
29:34
I said you're the number one draft pick for the Chicago
29:39
Bulls. It's your first game of the
29:41
season tonight. Tip offs at 7:30 at the United
29:44
Center and what time you show up at the United Center, he goes
29:48
all like 54455. I said really I go why so early?
29:54
Because I want to prepare, you know, I want to, you know, I
29:57
want to stretch. I want to prepare for the game,
30:01
I said. So with that same mindset, why
30:03
do you come in at 915 tip offs at 8:45?
30:07
Don't you still want to stretch and prepare?
30:09
And and he kind of looked at me and I never had that problem
30:14
ever again. And so that's kind of the way I
30:18
LED. I never was big and leading by
30:20
fear and intimidation. I think that's the coward's way
30:22
to lead. But there's a lot of leaders out
30:24
there today that do that. They think that's good.
30:28
You know, when I have a company contact me and say, you know, I
30:34
need some help. We've got a 40% turnover in our
30:37
our sales department and I need you to come in and help us
30:40
figure out why I said I don't even need to come in.
30:43
I can tell you right now, I go, your sales manager is the
30:45
problem, Your sales director is the problem.
30:48
They go, what do you mean? He's such a nice guy.
30:50
We all really like him, right? Well, they have this amazing
30:54
skill and what they do is they kiss up.
30:57
So they kiss up to people above them in power and they kick down
31:02
and they kick down to people below them with no power.
31:05
So those are the ones they manage by fear and intimidation,
31:08
and you're the ones they kiss up to.
31:09
But when you see an exit like that and that company that was
31:13
40% is now at 90%, they have a night and basically a nine out
31:19
of every 10 people they hire in sales leaves.
31:21
And in short order, you know, sometimes a few months,
31:24
sometimes a year or less, but that's what happens.
31:32
So we talked about the team in terms of growing your revenue as
31:34
a company, right? That's your goal this year,
31:36
trying to grow your revenue, build your business.
31:38
You look at the team first. Let's say the team's right,
31:40
everyone's in the right positions, you got the right
31:42
people, Hey, we're good on the team.
31:44
Where do you go next to increase your revenue?
31:46
Collaborate, get the team, and you want to make sure no matter
31:51
where you are in business, in leadership, you want to make
31:53
sure everybody has a voice and you want to make sure everybody
31:56
feels heard. And the key to it, as a leader,
31:59
you speak last 'cause if you walk in a room and go out, we
32:02
have this problem. And here's how I envision fixing
32:06
it. And we do this, this, this and
32:08
this. What do you guys think?
32:10
Well, you've lost the room already.
32:11
They'll say yeah, sounds. Good, right?
32:13
You've lost the room, whereas you just say we've got this
32:15
problem and I'm looking for all everyone here to help solve it.
32:20
What do you guys think? Then you start hearing these
32:23
different ideas, some of which you may have never thought of,
32:26
some of which may be better than yours.
32:28
Well, if you speak last, you have the ability to pivot what
32:31
you were going to say first, that you didn't say first and
32:36
make everybody feel hurt. But it's you got to you got to
32:39
collaborate and I think you got to innovate.
32:41
You got to do some things differently.
32:43
I mean, look at look at Kurt Cignetti, the coach of Indiana.
32:47
OK, they were horrible since World War 2.
32:53
They I don't, I mean, my son went to Indiana.
32:55
I never saw a football stadium with more than half tenants.
32:58
It was the worst. It was the way they were the
33:00
worst college football program in the country for years.
33:03
Why in the last couple years since he got there, have they
33:06
changed? It's he said.
33:08
It starts with people got to make sure you got the right
33:10
people on the bus and you got it starts with belief.
33:14
It starts with culture. Even look at what Ben Johnson's
33:17
done with the Bears. Every he that that that team out
33:20
there is an extension of him, his mindset.
33:23
They're never out of it. That we're going to win that
33:25
this, that whole positive focus and it, it really starts with
33:29
the people and, and belief that you're all in it together and
33:32
you win together. You got to collaborate.
33:34
You got to make sure every voice is heard.
33:37
And I think when when you can do that, that's how you begin to
33:41
build a winning team in a, in a winning culture.
33:44
I love that. What about from a more of a
33:46
business sales operations side? So I think if you're coming to a
33:48
company, you're trying to grow the revenue, you look at a few
33:50
different buckets in my mind, obviously A-Team culture, that
33:53
kind of stuff, for sure, that's where you go first.
33:55
But do you then go to current clients and look at saturation?
33:58
Is there an opportunity to grow the current clients or referral
34:01
partners, that kind of stuff, former clients, can we
34:03
reactivate people that we've done business with in the past,
34:06
pipeline people that are maybe close to cross in the finish and
34:09
then you work down from that to target prospects?
34:12
And then new. New business, is that kind of
34:14
how you see it because I think some of.
34:16
Those are the silos I think people forget about.
34:19
I tell people this, one of the greatest ways to grow your
34:22
business and it's something I don't know why most people don't
34:25
think about, but revive dormant relationships.
34:29
I mean, it works that way in life too.
34:31
Like I have people in life that, you know, their kids were older,
34:35
my kids were younger, I move N they move South.
34:38
People used to see that you don't see anymore.
34:41
That's a dormant relationship. The greatest way to grow your
34:45
business. Just pick up the phone and call,
34:48
but don't call and ask for anything.
34:50
Just call and say I was thinking about you and I wanted to see
34:52
how you've been. It's been some time since we
34:54
connected how the kids, how's the family.
34:57
You'd be surprised what that can do to grow business.
35:00
And it works the same way in in business, you have a concert or
35:03
dormant for no other reason. Then you know, they they're
35:08
dormant. You know, they kind of took a
35:10
step back, but new business, dormant relationships, you know,
35:16
people that were clients that aren't, those are all silos in
35:21
which are very effective in, in, in growing business.
35:23
And you know, remember, everybody wants to hit the Grand
35:26
Slam, but the the singles, double S and triples are the
35:30
ones that really keep the wolves away from on finance.
35:34
On the financial side, when you add them all up, there's a lot
35:37
of revenue there and you know, everybody wants that big, they
35:40
want the home run, but incremental growth is a great
35:43
way to grow business. And you know, that's kind of
35:46
what's always worked for me. Anything else outside of, you
35:50
know, the team kind of these buckets?
35:52
Do you see what are the other opportunities that founders are
35:54
missing out on and growing their business or increasing revenue
35:57
that you come in and kind of shed light on a blind spot that
35:59
maybe they have? Culture.
36:02
Well, I consider that part of the team.
36:04
Yeah, team. Anything else that we haven't
36:07
covered? Oh, I mean, I think, I think we
36:11
went over mostly everything that I think is it is important that
36:17
way. OK, Well, I want to, I was
36:18
touching a couple other things I think still play into this.
36:20
But some of the things you mentioned, this goes back to
36:24
what you just were talking about, which is never be the
36:28
person that talks more than the person that listens especially.
36:32
I mean, maybe in a when you're a podcast guest, you do got to
36:34
talk more than the host probably.
36:36
But but in a sales conversation and you did a post, you were
36:39
kind of reflecting, I've got it here, you're reflecting on 2025
36:43
going in 2026. I've asked some questions.
36:44
Really good wisdom in here. Yeah, I'll read off a couple
36:47
different things I think our audience can benefit from.
36:49
You said win fast by asking better questions.
36:52
I've closed more deals with curiosity than bravado.
36:55
The smartest people I've known are the ones who ask more
36:59
questions than they answer. That's 100% true.
37:04
That's a good because most business owners love talking
37:08
about themselves or talking and so give them that that
37:11
opportunity. And just like when, you know,
37:16
kind of in the game we all play networking or connecting, I
37:19
mean, we met through a client of mine in New York that introduced
37:21
us. That's connecting.
37:23
That's not working. And in that space, I think it's,
37:32
it's important to how can I put this?
37:44
I don't ever. I didn't come to you with what I
37:48
could get. I came to you with what I can
37:50
give. If I can give you some content
37:52
for your podcast, I'm happy to do it.
37:54
I didn't talk to you about any component of business.
37:57
I didn't talk to you about any. I didn't even broach anything
38:00
you do that maybe fits for my business.
38:03
Nothing. It was all about what I can give
38:05
to you and I think what many people need to focus on in
38:10
business and in life, but especially in business, when you
38:14
connect with people, the opportunity to share your
38:20
journey and learn about someone else's journey, that's where the
38:25
magic happens in this business. Too many people are looking for
38:29
the transaction. You know, they might look, he
38:32
said, oh, Alex, he's a nice guy. Could he, can he help me though?
38:35
What could Alex do for me? I don't really think Alex can
38:40
help me out. I don't really know if I need to
38:42
meet with him. I mean, Evan says he's a nice
38:44
guy, but he can't really help. I don't think he can help me.
38:49
That's called judging the package and missing the gift.
38:52
And I think many business leaders out there do that.
38:54
They they judge the package and they miss the gift And what the
38:57
gift is, is you don't really want me, you want my network.
39:01
And that's what more most people don't understand.
39:04
And I think when you get down to sharing respective journeys, how
39:09
you got from the Sun Times to Revenue Mountain, how you came
39:13
from your background to doing this podcast, there's a lot of
39:16
stuff in between, in between the two slices of bread from where
39:20
he started and where he finished.
39:22
And that's where the magic really happens in this business.
39:24
And I don't think of people, there's still too many people
39:27
that are focused on the transaction.
39:29
IA 100% agree with that. Could not agree more that I
39:32
think that's the basis of my content creation journey is
39:35
being selfless and thinking about what is the audience going
39:38
to get from that, not what am I going to get from that.
39:40
Right, You're thinking what? What can I give to my audience?
39:42
Exactly what can I get? Exactly, Exactly.
39:44
Yes. Now what's the balance of that,
39:47
of saying, hey, maybe I don't know, you know, I'm not going to
39:49
think about what I can get from this relationship or transaction
39:52
or whatever. I'm going to think about what I
39:53
can give. I could see someone saying the
39:55
counter argument of that is, well if you do that all day
39:58
everyday, you're not going to have time to, you know, actually
40:01
get shit done or do your business.
40:02
What would you say to someone that says that you're giving
40:04
away your time too easily? No, because the one thing I tell
40:08
people is you have to budget time for making introductions,
40:14
responding to introductions, and most people don't do that.
40:19
They like, I'll get to it when I get to it.
40:20
I talked to Alex today. I told him I was going to
40:24
introduce him to three people. Well, if you don't budget time
40:26
to do that, you're going to wind up not doing it.
40:27
And then Alex going to look at you and say, I don't know.
40:30
He said, you know, you can't promise stuff and not deliver on
40:32
it. So you've got a budget time to
40:34
do that. But I think that giving is the
40:39
independent variable on all aspects of a successful life is
40:44
is just giving and it does truly come back to you might not come
40:49
back to you tomorrow, but it comes back to you.
40:52
And people always remember, you know, when you I come to every
40:55
relationship with what can I give, not what can I get.
40:58
And it's worked out pretty well for me.
41:00
But that's I don't know if I really answered your question.
41:02
No, you did. You did.
41:04
I think it's you got to look at the time.
41:05
You can't, you know, you have to get shit done right, So you
41:08
can't, you know, network 24/7. But I think you to your point,
41:12
know what time you have budgeted in and then but more
41:14
importantly, the mindset of coming to every interaction with
41:16
what can I give verse what can I get?
41:18
You know, last, at the beginning of last year, I noticed the
41:22
business climate was a little shaky.
41:25
You know, people were waiting to see what was going to happen out
41:29
of the White House. You know, they were nervous.
41:31
He wasn't sure what was going to happen.
41:34
And I never really thought about that, but I, I did think of one
41:37
thing is that never let the weather of politics affect the
41:41
climate of our ideas. So we can never stop thinking
41:46
and growing and and innovating because of politics.
41:53
You've got in. And then at about the mid mark
41:56
of last year, things really started opening up.
42:00
But, you know, in my, in my space, the more tech that comes
42:04
in, you know, the two hottest things in tech right now are
42:08
probably AI and and cybersecurity.
42:12
But the more tech that comes into play brings more questions,
42:16
brings more confusion. As a problem solver in the tech
42:21
space, I relish that. And that's what helps us.
42:23
But yeah, you can never let you can never let your ideas be
42:28
compromised by politics, you know, and you always have to
42:31
come with new and innovative ideas.
42:33
What do you see the relationship between AI and humans being?
42:37
I had AI was on my way to Meyer and Lowe's to grab, but we just
42:40
moved to a new place. So I was grabbing some things
42:43
and there's just like little kind of lime deposit stain we
42:47
have on the refrigerator where the ice maker is.
42:50
And I was talking to Chachi PT and I showed it a picture of it
42:53
and I said, Hey, this is what it looks like.
42:55
Here's what it is. Give me some remedies for
42:58
getting this off. And I'm basically, I, I now have
43:00
these conversations with IGPT, which I just think is wild that
43:03
we have this AI mini assistant next to us and it's recommending
43:07
things. I'm going back and forth and I
43:09
get to the store, I'm sending a picture, you know, and I'm like,
43:12
man, we're not too far off that we live in a world where that AI
43:17
agent is really a true agent. I know we talked a lot about
43:19
agents, but not a lot of people use them every day now, but they
43:22
will where you just say, hey, here's the problem, go handle
43:26
it. And it looks up stuff at 3
43:28
searches based on the picture. It goes on Amazon order
43:30
something. If that's not working, it's
43:32
returning it for you. Like it's just I just had this
43:34
vision in my mind of like, wow, we are just going to AI is going
43:38
to do all the little tedious stuff that that we don't want to
43:41
do anymore. But where does that you know?
43:42
How does that relationship with humans?
43:44
AI I think should be a tool that sharpens the mind, not replaces
43:48
it. And I think the biggest mistake
43:51
that many are making with AI right now is never, ever, ever
43:59
let AI replace what you bring to an engagement as a human being.
44:03
OK? AI can't, can't tell me that his
44:08
gut feeling is that Alex is a phenomenal human being and a
44:12
very caring person. There's no emotion there.
44:14
There's no gut feeling. So you didn't AI didn't write
44:17
this post here? No, I figured not.
44:19
No, I just tell. You know, I could just tell.
44:21
You could, you could, you could tell.
44:24
But AI for the things you talked about is phenomenal, right?
44:30
Yeah. I was watching, I was watching
44:35
the Buffalo Bills game a couple weeks ago and I asked, AII asked
44:39
JHGBT, does James Cook we're #4 during his whole tenure with the
44:45
Bills? Now, again, I knew the answer to
44:47
the question before I asked it and it said, yes, James Cook
44:50
always we're #4 I said, no, he did not.
44:52
He wore #28 his rookie year. Oh, right, you're right on that.
44:56
Now, this is this is only four year old question.
44:59
There's a lot of things that get wrong.
45:01
You know, AI is, is just grabbing stuff and kind of
45:05
regurgitating it. So depending on what it is
45:09
you're asking, you still have to Fact Check it.
45:11
Now it is a phenomenal tool. But I will tell you this.
45:15
When I get an e-mail from somebody that I believe it's
45:18
from somebody and I respond and I respond in a way that the
45:22
e-mail is not trained to answer because it's AI, then it spits
45:25
back at me something like I never even sent them.
45:27
The I become offended that you really like you're that weak,
45:32
you can't even engage in emails anymore.
45:35
And that's where I think business leaders start to lose a
45:42
little bit of that interpersonal, you know, and
45:45
that's the mistake that many are making in AI.
45:47
Don't let it replace you as a human.
45:49
What you are as a human is the reason you've done millions and
45:52
millions of dollars of business. You know, the ability to go sit
45:55
down with somebody and talk face to face, eye to eye.
45:58
They are. Yeah, it was.
46:01
That's the the one mistake I think a lot of them are making
46:04
and. Now what if, what if the AI
46:07
e-mail is so good that you can't tell AI wrote it?
46:13
Or what if the text what if the post here that you did it was
46:16
written by and you go actually use AI just have a really good
46:18
software and I prompt it the right way and I give it the
46:20
right text and context and training and you can't tell does
46:25
it? Does it still bug you?
46:26
But no, you can't tell because it might take a response or two,
46:32
but if you respond in a way. Conversationally, you can
46:35
probably. Tell me that they're not
46:36
programmed to accept or to ask it a question that's not
46:41
programmed to answer. You find that I saw it the other
46:45
day. I was somewhere they had a like
46:47
a chat bot and they kept trying to ask it a question and they
46:51
kept spitting back an answer like I never asked a question.
46:54
So it's not a, it's not a perfect science, but I do think
46:57
in the offing, and I referenced this at the beginning as as
47:00
machines get better at being machines, humans need to get
47:04
better at being human, you know, and we can't lose that human
47:08
touch. And what I'm afraid of is AI
47:10
with AI is that humans are just going to get lazy and they don't
47:14
have to be as human as they were in the past.
47:17
But human interaction, human relationship, human thought,
47:20
human intuition, human gut feelings, that's what drives
47:23
life. And I'm not ready for that to
47:25
become be taken over by a computer.
47:29
Well, I think with the wave of AI content that's now on social
47:32
media, I think one of the best ways to combat that or to still
47:35
breakthrough the noise is to do things like this is to have an
47:38
in person podcast, is to live stream, is to have community
47:42
type engagements or content or events.
47:45
Because I think you you're able to do the human things that AI
47:48
can't quickly replicate because it will get better at writing.
47:50
It will. We already see video avatars.
47:52
You will not be able to tell if it's human or AI here soon.
47:55
And maybe some are fooling you now, but I think what you can't
47:59
fool is a conversation between two human beings for an hour and
48:02
they're sharing about their life stories and insights and wisdom
48:06
that AI will never have. It will never have life
48:10
experiences. So I think more founders,
48:12
entrepreneurs, you're listening to this now.
48:14
Think about how you can lean into the human element with your
48:16
content strategy, whether it's a podcast, a live, a community,
48:19
some type of real, authentic, deep depth.
48:23
I think it's going to be key in terms of how you're creating and
48:26
documenting your journey. I agree with you.
48:28
I was talking to a former colleague of mine on the way up
48:30
here today and a really bright guy.
48:34
We hired him right out of college and I love following
48:36
their, you know, kind of their careers and trajectory.
48:40
And this was a guy who was just a fantastic salesperson is
48:43
fantastic revenue generator. And he was telling me on the way
48:46
up here that if you have a basic understanding of coding, which,
48:51
you know, I have a basic understanding, but if you have a
48:54
basic understanding of coding and you get AI involved, AI can
48:58
actually write code for you. Oh, yeah.
49:00
You got to know a little bit. You do.
49:02
Yeah. And it's it's, it's interesting.
49:04
I mean, I think I don't think AI will ever replace humans, but I
49:08
think, I think AI will replace humans that don't understand AI.
49:12
So I think you have to, you know, take the time to invest in
49:15
it and and learn a little bit, but.
49:18
Definitely, you know. AI is going to make a sales call
49:20
for me. No AI is going to well, they
49:28
will solve problems, but on their terms, not mine.
49:31
And I think, you know, like I said, when you can solve
49:33
problems for businesses, you're, you're not only invaluable,
49:38
you're employable, you're indispensable.
49:41
And though those are the things that happened with problem, some
49:44
of the most highly compensated people in our country are
49:47
problem solvers. And when you can solve them,
49:50
you're, you're invaluable, you're indispensable and you're
49:53
absolutely employable. And more businesses should look
49:57
for people that can solve problems for them.
50:00
As opposed to I think I said one of those things I said on there
50:05
about don't chase flashy resumes, you know, chase people
50:09
with substance in. I said quiet doers are more
50:12
valuable than What did I say? Wow, I don't know if it's on
50:16
here or not because some of this got cut off.
50:20
Quiet doers are more valuable than.
50:22
Oh, here we go. Hire people who care more about
50:25
outcomes and optics. Don't chase flashy resumes.
50:29
Look for people who take pride in making things work.
50:30
Quiet doers outperform loud observers every time.
50:34
All the time, you know, just that guy that sits there and
50:36
grinds it out. That's my podcast.
50:38
Is everybody going, yeah, I did that.
50:40
I don't, you know, So those are important things.
50:44
But it's the people component of a company that'll never end.
50:47
And if you hire the right people and build the right culture,
50:50
you're going to have a great company.
50:52
Yeah, Bert, I want to end on this.
50:53
This is one of the things that you put in your post on LinkedIn
50:56
that caught my attention. It says life gets richer with
51:00
each decade, not because it gets easier, but because you stop
51:03
pretending it should be. Break that one down for us.
51:06
Well, I think, you know, as people say, as they get older,
51:08
right, if they get older, life should become easier.
51:11
No, it doesn't work that way. But when you understand that
51:15
nothing's really given to you, I mean, true is you get older, you
51:20
need less. You know, when you had two kids
51:22
about going ready to go to college.
51:24
I, I need a little bit more and then my kids are out of college
51:27
now and I can afford to listen. I, I would have never started
51:31
revenue mountain when my kids were about ready to go to
51:33
college, but I needed a little bit more.
51:37
But yeah, it does. Life doesn't get easier, but if
51:41
you navigate it the right way, you know, and, and really expect
51:46
nothing, you know, most people have an expectation that life is
51:49
going to get easier. Well, it's getting easier.
51:50
I've worked, I've paid my dues. Doesn't work like that.
51:53
You know, expectations are, are really truly the blueprint for
51:57
disappointment. So I always try to tell people
51:59
expect nothing from anyone and you'll never be disappointed.
52:03
But when you just understand that with each year comes more
52:07
wisdom and comes a better understanding of, of how people
52:12
navigate. Like we, we talk about givers
52:14
and takers, right? There's givers and there's
52:17
takers. The takers may eat better, but
52:20
I'll tell you, the givers sleep better at night.
52:23
And I think that that's important to see and, and and
52:26
and you, you know some. They also eat better over time
52:29
too. They what?
52:30
I think they also eat better over time too.
52:32
The givers. Absolutely, but I'm saying in
52:34
the. Short term, I got you.
52:35
Yeah, I. Got you.
52:36
I agree. They I, I had something I was
52:41
going to say now. Sorry I blocked you.
52:43
That's all right. The, you know, the givers and
52:47
the takers, the there's a lot of selfish people out there.
52:55
And when you can, someone asked me the other day, what was the
52:59
question? They asked me how I view
53:04
happiness. Is my view on happiness changed
53:09
over the years? Like what made me happy then
53:12
versus happy now? And back then, it was, am I
53:19
hitting my number? Am I making my goal?
53:22
Am I making Commission? Could I buy stuff?
53:25
You know, could I get, you know, I was never really impressed by
53:28
stuff. Yeah, I was like a nice car, but
53:31
I was the last guy to go out and buy a Louis Vuitton bag.
53:33
But that that stuff was more important then than it is now.
53:38
And it never was important so much then, but what's important
53:42
now? Knowing your kids have turned
53:44
out to be good, good people is really the best one is, is just
53:53
knowing you've raised children that turned out to be really
53:56
good quality people and happiness.
54:00
You know what I'm happy about the people that I surrounded
54:04
myself with. You know, if you, if you look in
54:08
your circle, whatever that may be, and you don't feel inspired,
54:13
you don't have a circle, you have a cage.
54:16
And what I encourage people to do is keep your don't you know
54:22
back then what happiness was for me?
54:24
Big circle, lot of people, 'cause those were all my
54:28
friends, right? Lot of people.
54:30
Media, Burt Levy. I got people from movies and
54:33
entertainment and my buddies from Chicago and my buddies from
54:37
University of Illinois and all the people I met along the way.
54:40
Big circle? No, Keep your circle small.
54:44
It's much harder to get them out than it is to get them in.
54:47
And sometimes you invite the wrong people in your circle.
54:51
And I think the people you want to surround yourself, whether
54:54
you're a human being or a business owner, the people whose
54:56
eyes light up when you talk about your dreams, those are the
54:59
people you want. You know?
55:01
The people who were with you when you weren't succeeding, who
55:06
were always by your side, offering to help.
55:08
What can I do? You know, people who were with
55:10
you when you were conceptually failing, those are the people
55:14
you want to stay with you versus the ones that jump on the on the
55:17
train once you are succeeding. You know, never forget those
55:20
people, the people that, that stand by you when, when, when
55:24
times weren't so good. Those were the people.
55:26
And I've never forgotten the people that have invested in me
55:30
in different scenarios that I was in early in life that went
55:32
out. You know, when you have somebody
55:35
you want to see succeed, you help them succeed.
55:39
Whatever that looks like. Whether it's introducing the
55:42
people, whether it's buying their product, whether it's
55:44
giving them advice, the people you want to succeed in life, you
55:48
help. Well, a lot of advice, advice
55:51
and wisdom was given on this episode and I appreciate you
55:54
coming on and doing the show. Bert, where can people find you,
55:56
connect with you, and learn more about what you do?
55:59
Obviously my website at revenuemountain.com, but the
56:03
easiest you can e-mail me at bert.b.urt@revenuemountain.com.
56:09
And I respond to all emails and I'm again, always open to open,
56:15
honest and authentic conversation.
56:17
It's really the thing that we built the business on and what I
56:20
tell people when they say, what do you do different than other
56:23
companies? I say we actually listen.
56:25
So I'm, I'm, I'm up for listening to anybody who wants
56:28
to get a hold of me. And I, I can't tell you how much
56:33
I appreciate you having me on. And you know, time is something
56:36
that is your most valuable asset that we never know when it's
56:40
going to end. And you know, time is something
56:44
you can never get back. So I hope it was a positive
56:47
investment of your time. It was beyond positive for me.
56:49
And I thank you again for having me.
56:51
It definitely was and thanks again for being on the show and
56:53
thank you all for watching and listening.
56:55
We couldn't do this without you guys, so appreciate everyone.
56:58
Thanks for thanks a lot.