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TEEN'S DNA REVEALED IN ANNA KEPNER'S ASSAULT KIT · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: This dream vacation ended in such a nightmare.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Where's Anna? Everybody on that ship is a suspect.
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: How did she die? How did she literally slip through
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: the cracks?
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Family protects family.
• 0:19
  Speaker 4: Wrapped mummy style in a blanket and stuffed under a
• 0:22
  Speaker 4: twin bed.
• 0:22
  Speaker 5: It's a floating crime scene.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: I want to know what are his demons?
• 0:28
  Speaker 5: Do not care about his feelings?
• 0:31
  Speaker 4: I care about her dead body. Straight out to Crime
• 0:42
  Speaker 4: Stories investigative reporter Dave Matt, what's the.
• 0:45
  Speaker 5: Latest, Nancy.
• 0:46
  Speaker 6: We've got shocking news coming out on the Anna Kavner case.
• 0:51
  Speaker 6: It is amazing to find out that through the investigation. Now,
• 0:56
  Speaker 6: there was a detention hearing last week and at one
• 1:01
  Speaker 6: hundred and forty five page transcript of this hearing has
• 1:05
  Speaker 6: been made public, and oh my gosh, we found out
• 1:09
  Speaker 6: that the FBI tracked down another person with looking for
• 1:18
  Speaker 6: the DNA of another male on board that cruise ship.
• 1:23
  Speaker 6: This is as shocking as it gets. We didn't see
• 1:26
  Speaker 6: it coming.
• 1:26
  Speaker 7: I didn't.
• 1:27
  Speaker 6: Anyway. We have Anna Kevner, eighteen years old, sharing a
• 1:32
  Speaker 6: cabin with her stepbrother. They both go into the cabin,
• 1:37
  Speaker 6: only one comes out and it's not Anna. Now, the
• 1:42
  Speaker 6: defense for Timothy Hudson is trying to prove that it
• 1:45
  Speaker 6: could have been somebody else, and according to what came
• 1:49
  Speaker 6: out of the detention hearing, there is a possibility that
• 1:52
  Speaker 6: Anna Kevner was involved sexually with somebody on the ship,
• 1:59
  Speaker 6: so much so that the FBI tracked this male minor.
• 2:06
  Speaker 6: They're calling him a mystery minor, but they tracked down
• 2:09
  Speaker 6: this guy and got his DNA so that they could
• 2:13
  Speaker 6: compare the DNA from this minor against what was found
• 2:18
  Speaker 6: in the rape kit. This was done before the arrest
• 2:22
  Speaker 6: of Anna Kapner's step brother, Timothy Hudson. After the results
• 2:27
  Speaker 6: came in, the FBI was convinced they knew where to go,
• 2:32
  Speaker 6: and the arrest of Timothy Hudson occurred after the exclusion
• 2:37
  Speaker 6: of the male minor the mystery DNA. Okay, that's the big,
• 2:43
  Speaker 6: huge reveal, But there's more at this hearing that took
• 2:48
  Speaker 6: place this detention hearing a one hundred and forty five
• 2:50
  Speaker 6: page transcript that broke down other parts of a potential
• 2:55
  Speaker 6: defense plan that will go all the way back to
• 2:59
  Speaker 6: the mechanic asphyxiation, the death of Anna Kepner and how
• 3:03
  Speaker 6: it was done. That's also going to be discussed at
• 3:07
  Speaker 6: length at trial as the defense tries to prove some
• 3:11
  Speaker 6: other dude did it. It's not a not difficult to
• 3:15
  Speaker 6: understand because you have two individuals that go into the
• 3:19
  Speaker 6: room about the same time and only one ever comes
• 3:23
  Speaker 6: back out alive. The defense has an uphill battle, but
• 3:27
  Speaker 6: they're going to bring everything out of the woodwork to
• 3:30
  Speaker 6: prove that it could have been somebody else.
• 3:33
  Speaker 7: J Scott Morgan way in Nance, I got to tell
• 3:36
  Speaker 7: you when I first heard about this new development, which
• 3:39
  Speaker 7: I got to tell you, I'm gobsmacked, as my friends
• 3:41
  Speaker 7: in Great Britain say, I did not see this coming.
• 3:46
  Speaker 7: One of the things they're going to think about here,
• 3:48
  Speaker 7: or that I was thinking about, is they're talking about
• 3:51
  Speaker 7: somebody else. Are we dealing with what's referred to as
• 3:56
  Speaker 7: co mingle DNA? And so if you do a rape
• 3:59
  Speaker 7: kit and know that over the course of your career
• 4:01
  Speaker 7: you've had cases that unfortunately involve gang rapes, and so
• 4:07
  Speaker 7: with a gang rape, many times you will have you
• 4:10
  Speaker 7: will have comingle DNA, and it's a matter of separating
• 4:13
  Speaker 7: these out. That's not what's going on because they're saying
• 4:17
  Speaker 7: that the swab that was taken from within Anna you know,
• 4:21
  Speaker 7: came back with sample. And this is the FBI saying
• 4:24
  Speaker 7: this came back with a sample that ties back to
• 4:28
  Speaker 7: the step brother. I guess one of the big questions
• 4:30
  Speaker 7: is what other DNA did they find and where was
• 4:33
  Speaker 7: it harvested from. You know, at autopsy an exam, when
• 4:38
  Speaker 7: we do an external examination on a body, particularly in
• 4:43
  Speaker 7: a violent sex attack, we're going to swab all over
• 4:47
  Speaker 7: the body. Okay, We're going to take samples from various locations,
• 4:50
  Speaker 7: and one of the primary locations, of course here is
• 4:53
  Speaker 7: going to be this idea along the neck, this specific
• 4:57
  Speaker 7: area where they keep using.
• 4:59
  Speaker 8: The term arm bar, arm bar or armbar.
• 5:01
  Speaker 7: So if somebody is putting direct pressure onto the neck,
• 5:05
  Speaker 7: particularly if they're doing it with a bear a bare arm,
• 5:09
  Speaker 7: you can expect that you could probably find touched in
• 5:13
  Speaker 7: a along this area. You can find sweat that doesn't
• 5:16
  Speaker 7: come from anna, you can find hair that doesn't come
• 5:19
  Speaker 7: from anna. There's any number of these surfaces. But Nancy,
• 5:23
  Speaker 7: this is one of the things that really really concerns
• 5:26
  Speaker 7: me about this case, and that is the collection of
• 5:29
  Speaker 7: evidence and how secure it has been. One of the
• 5:33
  Speaker 7: things that has come to light that I was absolutely
• 5:36
  Speaker 7: shocked by is that there was a rape kit that
• 5:40
  Speaker 7: was performed on board this vessel. I want to know
• 5:44
  Speaker 7: who performed this rape kit, what were their qualifications to
• 5:50
  Speaker 7: gather this information, and more importantly, if they performed a
• 5:55
  Speaker 7: rape kit on her, who protected this protected this kit
• 6:01
  Speaker 7: along the way?
• 6:02
  Speaker 9: You know?
• 6:03
  Speaker 7: And I know how many times have we been into
• 6:06
  Speaker 7: evidence rooms? How many times have we been to the
• 6:08
  Speaker 7: medical Examiner's office, And when we take evidence, it's a
• 6:12
  Speaker 7: lockdown in a secured area. I don't think they have
• 6:16
  Speaker 7: evidence lockers on board cruise ships, Nancy, And I know
• 6:21
  Speaker 7: for a fact that these individuals that pull security details
• 6:26
  Speaker 7: on cruise ships, they're not forensic scientists. So did an
• 6:31
  Speaker 7: FBI agent come on board and do a rat kit?
• 6:35
  Speaker 7: And if so, how are they qualified to do a
• 6:37
  Speaker 7: ract kit? Because this is generally something that is done
• 6:40
  Speaker 7: either by a sane nurse, sexual assault nurse examiner who
• 6:44
  Speaker 7: are highly qualified practitioners, or is done back at the
• 6:48
  Speaker 7: medical Examiner's office in cases of homicides. I want to
• 6:54
  Speaker 7: know who had their hands on this kit. And that's
• 6:57
  Speaker 7: going to be a big question. I mean, you got it,
• 7:00
  Speaker 7: you know, and I know that any defense attorney worth
• 7:04
  Speaker 7: their salt is going to bring this up. So the
• 7:08
  Speaker 7: other question is why could they have not waited until
• 7:12
  Speaker 7: they got back to Miami Dade. If they secured her body,
• 7:17
  Speaker 7: if they had her in a body bag. I was
• 7:20
  Speaker 7: hoping that they kept the body wrapped. I don't know
• 7:23
  Speaker 7: that they did. You know she was covered, Did they
• 7:26
  Speaker 7: remove the cover? What did they do with that? How
• 7:29
  Speaker 7: well secured was that? Because that could potentially have trace
• 7:32
  Speaker 7: and DNA on it as well. How'd they preserve that
• 7:35
  Speaker 7: out at sea? Okay? And whose hands did that make
• 7:39
  Speaker 7: it into? Is that why this is taking so much time?
• 7:42
  Speaker 7: Why didn't they they not wait until they got back
• 7:45
  Speaker 7: to Miami Dade to go to the Miami Dade Medical
• 7:49
  Speaker 7: Examiner's office with her body and secure it there and
• 7:53
  Speaker 7: have that team who is highly qualified to collect all
• 7:57
  Speaker 7: of this evidence. There are more questions here at this
• 8:00
  Speaker 7: point in Tom than answers. We know that this was
• 8:04
  Speaker 7: an intimate, violent attack, so much so that even in
• 8:09
  Speaker 7: this report, Nancy, they're talking that Anna's eardrumps were bilaterally
• 8:14
  Speaker 7: bilaterally burst. That's a tremendous amount of pressure. It takes
• 8:19
  Speaker 7: a lot of anger. We're going to find out at
• 8:22
  Speaker 7: the end of the day. How much evidence was collected,
• 8:25
  Speaker 7: and also how it was treated after it was in
• 8:28
  Speaker 7: fact collected.
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: This little girl was a high school cheerleading star, a
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: star in so many ways.
• 8:35
  Speaker 5: She had all a's.
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: She was already set to go into the military, had
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: already spoken to recruiters, had her mind made up to
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: serve her country. Now she's dead on a cruise ship.
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: You know, maybe I'm the crazy one here straight out
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: to Susan Hendricks joining us. You know her, well, investigative journalist.
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: Isn't it true, Susan Hendrix that at first we were
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: all told this little girl died eleven eight, but now
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: we are learning they even had the date wrong by
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: twenty four hours. She died eleven seven, around eleven seventeen
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: a m.
• 9:14
  Speaker 5: Isn't that true?
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: And the cruise ship docked back when it was supposed
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: to on Saturday, So we're learning now you're right, eleven
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: seventeen on Friday. We're trying to piece together exactly what happened.
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: But it seemed like she loved cruises. She was excited
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: to go. They were looking forward to it. How did
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: she end up dead?
• 9:36
  Speaker 5: What happened to her? Well, I'll tell you. The FBI
• 9:38
  Speaker 5: on it.
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: Now, that's never a good thing when you have the
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: FBI picking through your trash and going over your movements
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: straight out to death investigator Professor of forensics at Jacksonville
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: State University. So, Scott, thank you for being with us.
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: It's a death investigator's nightmare. It's a floating crime scene.
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: How did the little girl die?
• 10:01
  Speaker 5: Who was with her? What time did she die? Not
• 10:05
  Speaker 5: just the cod cause of death, the manner of death.
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: Those guests, over five thousand of them on this particular
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: cruise ship have scattered to the four corners of the earth.
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: They weren't all even from the US.
• 10:20
  Speaker 7: So what do you do first, Well, you tried to
• 10:23
  Speaker 7: get access to the area where she was actually living
• 10:26
  Speaker 7: in that cabin, bits of evidence that are contained therein
• 10:31
  Speaker 7: all the stuff that was in her baggage. But here's
• 10:33
  Speaker 7: one of the problems, Nancy. Once that stuff is removed
• 10:37
  Speaker 7: out of there, you lose all contexts for the rest
• 10:39
  Speaker 7: of the investigation. Here's another problem. We don't have an
• 10:43
  Speaker 7: established timeline you had mentioned earlier. Has she ingested anything?
• 10:47
  Speaker 7: What kind of meals did she take on board? Who
• 10:49
  Speaker 7: was she hanging out with on the ship. Was there
• 10:51
  Speaker 7: anybody that could have slipped her something at some point
• 10:54
  Speaker 7: in time. Did she have access to alcohol when she's
• 10:56
  Speaker 7: in international waters. So all of this works out to
• 11:00
  Speaker 7: be just an absolute nightmare scenario.
• 11:03
  Speaker 5: Joining us now, Spencer Arnfeld.
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: He is the lawyer for the family of Dulcy White,
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: another woman that dies at sea. He is known as
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: the cruise ship lawyer, and for a reason he takes
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: on these seemingly impossible cases and actually wins them, not
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: on behalf of the cruise ship, on behalf of the families. Spencer,
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't trust a cruise ship investigator as far as
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: I could throw them.
• 11:36
  Speaker 5: Not that they're evil people.
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: I mean, for Pete's sake, they don't even have the
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: right day of death, much less time of death. We
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: had to get a medical examiner in the States to
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: give me a time of death.
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: I mean, really, if they can't even.
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: Do that, did you hear Joe Scott Morgan, he's the
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: professor of forensics describing what all has been lost? Because
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: if they're ineptness, Spencer, this is so wrong, and people
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: wonder why I'm so angry and upset. This is I'm
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: not mad at the investigator who doesn't know what he
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: she or doing. I'm mad because this is the only
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: thing left that we can do for this little girl.
• 12:16
  Speaker 5: This is it is to solve her case. Spencer, well,
• 12:21
  Speaker 5: probably Nancy, and I agree with you.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: The most important evidence for me would be the surveillance video.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: These cruise lines are wired like casinos from Bowster with
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: high definitions CCTV covering all the common areas, covering the elevators,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: covering the dining rooms, the pool of the night bull.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: And my question is where's the CCTV. In my experience
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: and I sued Carnival thousands of times, they will either
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: not have all the CCTV or failed to preserve it,
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: which is why I think the FBI boarding the ship
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: the minute it got to Port Miami was essential to
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: the preservation of the CCTV. They're going to get it
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: off the ship and the FBI will take possession of
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: it before Carnival destroys it, loses it takes over it.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: I think the cameras are going to tell a lot
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: of the story of what happened to.
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: Her straight out to Robert Crispin, private investigator joining us
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: on location at Port of Miami, where at the cruise
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: ships and depart tell me how difficult it's going to be,
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: Robert Crispin to put this case.
• 13:32
  Speaker 5: It's like Humpty Dumpty.
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: All the king's horses and all the king's men could
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: never put Humpty together again. Why is it so difficult
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: to put a case together when A you had the
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: wrong time of death, and b every passenger on that
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: floating crime scene is gone.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Nancy, forget about that too. As he came back
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: here to the port of Miami, every single one of
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: those passengers got off and they went too off corners
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: of the world, out of the country, all around the US. So,
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: as an investigator, the FBI is going to have an
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: issue of trying to figure out who's with Anna, who's
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: the last person with her, who went to her cabin
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: with her, because it was already reported that she went
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: back earlier in the night because she didn't feel good.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: That's a problem.
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: Sidney Sumner joining US Crime Story's investigative reporter. So the
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: maid goes in and discovers the body stuffed under the bed.
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: Could you describe how the maid found the body and
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: what condition.
• 14:35
  Speaker 8: That's right, Nancy, the maid coming to clean the room,
• 14:39
  Speaker 8: coming to remake the bed, is the one who notices
• 14:43
  Speaker 8: this pile of life jackets in the sheet stuffed under
• 14:47
  Speaker 8: the bed, and that's when she discovers Anna's body. Now
• 14:51
  Speaker 8: that's where things get unclear. So we know we have
• 14:54
  Speaker 8: this time of death eleven seventeen am on November seventh,
• 15:00
  Speaker 8: to say that the maid came in around eleven. That's
• 15:03
  Speaker 8: when security showed up at this tavern and guarded it
• 15:06
  Speaker 8: for the rest of the cruise. So that's where there's
• 15:09
  Speaker 8: this big discrepancy.
• 15:11
  Speaker 6: Anna's father, stepmother, and other family members joined her for
• 15:14
  Speaker 6: a six day carnival cruise to the Western Caribbean. After
• 15:18
  Speaker 6: their last day at port in Cosmel, Mexico, Anna heads
• 15:21
  Speaker 6: back to her room early, telling family members she isn't
• 15:23
  Speaker 6: feeling well during dinner. The next morning, Anna doesn't join
• 15:26
  Speaker 6: her family for breakfast and isn't answering her door. Her
• 15:29
  Speaker 6: family begins a frantic search for the teen on the
• 15:32
  Speaker 6: fourteen deck four thousand passenger ship Sidney Sumner.
• 15:36
  Speaker 5: What is happening, Nancy.
• 15:38
  Speaker 8: We've learned through the court documents related to this custody
• 15:41
  Speaker 8: disagreement that the said are eyeing Anna's stepbrother as a
• 15:46
  Speaker 8: suspect in her debt. So Anna's dad, Christopher Kettner, just
• 15:52
  Speaker 8: married Chantelle Hudson, who is divorced from Thomas Hudson. So
• 15:56
  Speaker 8: Thomas and Chantelle Chantelle share three chown, two of which
• 16:01
  Speaker 8: are still minors. So the older of those two minor
• 16:04
  Speaker 8: children and a stet brother, is alleged to have taken
• 16:08
  Speaker 8: part in her debt. Now the father is trying to
• 16:12
  Speaker 8: get custody of their nine year old daughter and is
• 16:15
  Speaker 8: also trying to figure out what's going on with this son.
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: Spencer Erinfield joining us. He is the cruise ship lawyer
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: and has handled a myriad of cruise related accidents and deaths. Spencer,
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: I want to talk about not just evidence from the
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: body of this little girl, but digital forensic evidence. You
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: have been on a million cruise ships investigating cases. It's
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: like being in a Vegas casino for Pete's sake, more
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: than NASA. Every square inch is covered like you're walking
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: through La Guardia for Pete's sake. Everything's covered with surveillance
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: video and the keys to the room are digital.
• 16:58
  Speaker 5: Their key card. No one is using the old skeleton
• 17:02
  Speaker 5: key anymore, which is valuable evidence explained.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: So they have like a black box that's connected to
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: the doors of these cruise lines that will show you
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: who entered, because each passenger has their own card, what
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: time they entered, and what time the door shut. They
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: will also be able to tell what time the door opened.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: And all you have to do, Nancy is sync that
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: with the high definition CCTV that they have of that hallway,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: and you'll be able to time precisely when she entered
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: the cabin, and when each and every other member of
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: the family, as well as the cabin steward who apparently
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: found her, entered the cabin. How long did it take
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: him once he was in the cabin to exit the cabin.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: All those things are very easily determined by CCTV, assuming
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Carnival still has it. And this is why I'm thrilled
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: that the FBI boarded the ship so quickly, because it
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: prevented Carnival from getting rid of that CCTV footage that
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: they often do in many of the cases that I'm
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: investigating and prosecuting right now.
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: In the last hours, Anna Kettner, the teen girl cheerleader
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: going to that Titus Little Christian School, already had her
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: future mapped out very organized, planning to join the military
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: and ultimately be a police officer in the K nine unit.
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: That little girl, the one scrubbed in sunshine.
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: Let's see a picture of Anna, Pleas, there you go,
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: that's Anna Kettner.
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: She's dead.
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: Yes, the first photo was her experimenting with blonde hair.
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: She's dead, stuffed under a cruise ship bed wrapped in
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: a blanket mummy style we've been told, and then with
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: life jackets on top of her to hide her body.
• 19:03
  Speaker 10: Listen in a Kaepner's death on board a carnival cruise
• 19:06
  Speaker 10: ship now ruled a homicide, her autopsy stating she was
• 19:09
  Speaker 10: mechanically asphyxiated by another person or person's The medical examiner
• 19:14
  Speaker 10: finds two bruises on the side of Anna's neck. She
• 19:17
  Speaker 10: may have been held in a bar hold, meaning her
• 19:20
  Speaker 10: attacker held an arm across her neck.
• 19:22
  Speaker 5: It is a floating crime scene.
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: And now Robert Crispin that we learn it was a
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: mechanical strangulation. I'm going to go to doctor Kimball crowns
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: in just one moment, the crime scene, the crime scene
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: when you were living in close quarters with someone sharing
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: a small cramp space, the DNA processing of that scene
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: becomes even more vital. I mean it's like a peachy
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: dish of DNA and now it's all gone. Can you
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: refresh everyone's recollection about the cruise ship investigators that for
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: process that scene.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: What's critical about this homicide is going to come down
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: to DNA. It's gonna come down to DNA and what
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: the medical examiner says in the autopsy, the cause of death,
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera. More importantly, did the victim fight
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: DNA under her nails?
• 20:21
  Speaker 7: Did she scratch the suspect?
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: In all of these cases, Nancy, these victims fight for
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: their life. They're clawing DNA is under their nails of
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: the suspect who's trying to kill them. This is going
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: to be very, very very important critical evidence to go
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: towards and arrest, an indictment or something to get this
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: guy arrested and put in jail. It's going to take
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: a little bit of time now because obviously we don't
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: have a confession, because if we had a confession, he'd
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: already be in jail.
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: Hey, Crispin, Yeah, I learned that Anna was feeling badly.
• 21:02
  Speaker 5: She's felt poorly.
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: It was because of her braces were hurting her, and
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: she asked to go back to she has to go
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: back to the room. Early during dinner, she went back,
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: but then she got dressed up and re emerged.
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: And what we're learning is she had on this cute
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: little outfit.
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: But in one report, Crispin, just one, it said Anna
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: was wrapped only in a blanket with life vest stuffed
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: over her only only in a blanket, which led me
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: to believe that she was naked under the blanket.
• 21:41
  Speaker 5: That's yet to be borne out.
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: But if that is true, or if she was partially clothed,
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: why else would she have been partially clothed, stuffed under
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: a twin bed, or naked wrapped in a blanket unless
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: there had been a sex attack. What I'm saying is
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: just because there's not DNA, just because there's not sperm
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: on or in her body, does not mean there was
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: not a sex attack.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: And if you go back and you listen to one
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: of the statements that was made from Anna's ex boyfriend's
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: father that the stepson had climbed on top of her
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: one night when she was in bed.
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: You know, I know that Project Innocence and the Poverty
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: Law Institute and all the defense bars. You're gonna get
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: mad when I say this, but they could just chew
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: on this. When you don't know a horse, look at
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: his track record.
• 22:41
  Speaker 5: Listen.
• 22:42
  Speaker 11: She just didn't feel safe around him. She's scared to
• 22:45
  Speaker 11: tell anybody because she was scared that he would do
• 22:48
  Speaker 11: something to her.
• 22:49
  Speaker 10: Joshua too, says Anna's close relationship with her stepbrother was
• 22:53
  Speaker 10: one sided. The sixteen year old is obsessed with Anna
• 22:56
  Speaker 10: and made her uncomfortable with romantic advances. If he once
• 23:00
  Speaker 10: even caught him trying to climb into Anna's bed while
• 23:03
  Speaker 10: the two were on FaceTime, Anna already asleep.
• 23:06
  Speaker 12: He said that I tried to tell the parents that
• 23:09
  Speaker 12: this was happening, and they didn't want to believe me.
• 23:12
  Speaker 12: He's like infatuated, attracted her like crazy. He's always wanted
• 23:15
  Speaker 12: the dater. Chris doesn't realize it's his fault. This whole
• 23:19
  Speaker 12: thing is his fault. If he would have taken the
• 23:26
  Speaker 12: warnings that Anna's ex boyfriend gave him, then she would
• 23:32
  Speaker 12: still be here. So keep that in mind, Christopher, I
• 23:38
  Speaker 12: blame you that.
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: From Inside Edition and at Just Mom nineteen eighty four
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: on TikTok, that's Anna's bio Mom, So explain to me.
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: Shannon Butler's reporter WFTV. According to what we're learning from
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: her ex boyfriend Joshua Too, it's not just what she
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: said happened. He was on face time with her. They
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: were facetiming late at night. Anna fell asleep, but the
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: FaceTime was still going and he, according to reports, saw
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: the sixteen year old step brother crawl on top of her.
• 24:15
  Speaker 5: He saw it.
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: It's not just her saying that happened to her, and
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: then he goes on to state she did not feel
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: safe around him. She was scared to tell anybody because
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: she thought he would quote do something to her.
• 24:29
  Speaker 7: That.
• 24:30
  Speaker 13: That is what he said to reporters here. He also
• 24:32
  Speaker 13: told his dad that, and his dad told reporters that
• 24:35
  Speaker 13: there was always this fear Anna had of her stepbrother,
• 24:40
  Speaker 13: but it wasn't just something that she talked about. The
• 24:42
  Speaker 13: boyfriend said he knew about it and then he saw
• 24:45
  Speaker 13: that when it happened on FaceTime and even said like,
• 24:48
  Speaker 13: get off of her.
• 24:49
  Speaker 11: I was on FaceTime with her and she was laying
• 24:52
  Speaker 11: down and a brother tried to go on top of her,
• 24:56
  Speaker 11: and you saw that, yeah, and what did you have
• 24:59
  Speaker 11: to I was like, what the hell are you doing
• 25:02
  Speaker 11: in the room? You know? Then he got scared and
• 25:05
  Speaker 11: like ran away, and I heard his footsteps like running
• 25:08
  Speaker 11: through the house, you know, because he got caught.
• 25:10
  Speaker 7: That was my first love.
• 25:12
  Speaker 11: She was the best that ever happened to me. And
• 25:15
  Speaker 11: I'd even walked through her work to see her, you know,
• 25:17
  Speaker 11: for like five ten minutes. She complained about him being
• 25:21
  Speaker 11: uncomfortable or her being uncomfortable around him. Uh, because of
• 25:27
  Speaker 11: the fact that he tried to go on top of
• 25:29
  Speaker 11: her in the bed, and because of that, she tried
• 25:32
  Speaker 11: to go instead a night at her friend's house and
• 25:35
  Speaker 11: said Dodge to stay the night at her house.
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: That is from the Space Coast Rocket Instagram Shannon Butler
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: joining us to WFTV. You've got ongoing divorce custody proceedings
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: and in those the mom of the teen step brother
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: fils any emergency here and saying I'm not answering any
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: questions and nobody's taking the stand because it could hurt
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: my son's right to a fair trial, a fair trial
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: on what obviously the Anna Kepner murder.
• 26:07
  Speaker 13: Yeah, that was the first we had heard about the
• 26:09
  Speaker 13: stepbrother being a suspect. We didn't get any of that
• 26:12
  Speaker 13: from investigators. But then you go into this you know,
• 26:15
  Speaker 13: separate court case, and that's how that information was revealed,
• 26:19
  Speaker 13: and that's what kind of started everybody now asking these questions.
• 26:23
  Speaker 13: And if you, you know, listen to the family members
• 26:26
  Speaker 13: about that brother. They talk about how he was very
• 26:30
  Speaker 13: very distraught over this, how they had to he had
• 26:33
  Speaker 13: to be hospitalized, the behavior.
• 26:37
  Speaker 5: Wa wait wait wait wait wait wait wait.
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: The teens step brother was distraught, distraught, correct, that's what
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: they say. Okay, was he distraught about Anna being dead
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: or about him being a suspect?
• 26:54
  Speaker 13: That's still the question. The family was very very clear
• 26:57
  Speaker 13: that he was very very upset after this happened and
• 27:00
  Speaker 13: had to be hospitalized.
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: Spencer aaronfel joining us, the Creuse lawyer. He's handled so
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: many cruise ship cases. Spencer, we were told that the
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: team brother was so distraught that he had to go
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: in the hospital. Then he was miraculously released from the hospital.
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: He wasn't wearing a band aid, he wasn't on crutches.
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: Why was he in the hospital. Was that a delay tactic?
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: Then we were told he was quote so upset he
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: quote couldn't talk to FBI investigators. Sounds a lot to
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: me like invoking your right to remain silent.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: One hundred percent Nancy. And it also instruction of evidence
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: because when he went to the hospital, I'm sure that
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: he changed his clothes. What happened to his clothes, I'm
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: sure he was cleaned, and his fingers and what's under
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: his nails, and all sorts of things that would have
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: been invaluable evidence to the investigators and prosecutors in this
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: case were probably lost by that trip to the hospital.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: It really interrupted the chain of custody of a lot
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: of evidence that would have been left on him, including
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: potentially of bodily fluids and things that may have been
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: on his hands on his clothes.
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: You know, Spencer Ernfield, you are my own personal chamber
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: of hers.
• 28:24
  Speaker 5: I hadn't even thought of that yet.
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: The fact that he goes straight into a hospital setting
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: and his clothes could be god knows where, Robert Crispin,
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: that's important. I want to see his clothes. I want
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: to look for microscopic evidence. I want to look for blood,
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: I want to look for sperm. I wanna look for
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: her blood. And yes, I want to see his underwear.
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: For obvious reasons, it's probably all gone, Robert.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: It probably is, Nancy. Hence the long delay before the
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: ship got back to lock and down on the crime scene,
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: locking down the people they're clothing, not letting anyone go anywhere, intermingle,
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: talk to people, separating everybody. It's a recipe for disaster.
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: And of course the cruise ship is vehemently denying that
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: the teens had alcohol.
• 29:19
  Speaker 5: Of course the family is stunned.
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: They've got Anna dad stuffed under a bed, They've got
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: the sixteen year old reportedly a target.
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: Listen.
• 29:29
  Speaker 14: He was a good student, played soccer. He played soccer,
• 29:33
  Speaker 14: very quiet young man. He had demons, I think in
• 29:37
  Speaker 14: his past and he was trying to deal with those.
• 29:41
  Speaker 6: Barbara and Jeffrey Kepner are shocked Ganna's sixteen year old
• 29:44
  Speaker 6: stepbrother is being eyed as a suspect and their murder.
• 29:47
  Speaker 6: Describing them as two peas in a pod and very close.
• 29:50
  Speaker 6: He says the team was distraught when he learned and
• 29:53
  Speaker 6: his body was found, and couldn't speak during an initial
• 29:55
  Speaker 6: interview with FBI agents.
• 29:57
  Speaker 14: He was an emotional mess. He couldn't even speak. He
• 30:03
  Speaker 14: couldn't believe what had happened.
• 30:05
  Speaker 5: From our friends at ABC.
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: To Michelle Spitzer joining US investigative Reporter USA Today now
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: when he was rushed for psychiatric evaluation. Wasn't that the
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: first time the FBI detectives tried to speak with him,
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: he suddenly had to go to the hospital because he
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: couldn't remember what happened.
• 30:30
  Speaker 15: We know that the FBI did meet the cruise ship
• 30:33
  Speaker 15: when it docked important Miami, and yes, according to court documents,
• 30:37
  Speaker 15: he has told his mother he does not remember anything
• 30:42
  Speaker 15: from what happened on the cruise ship.
• 30:44
  Speaker 10: Sean tell Hudson tells her ex over text that their
• 30:47
  Speaker 10: son just keeps repeating over and over he can't remember anything.
• 30:52
  Speaker 10: Chris Kepner's parents say the same thing. The sixteen year
• 30:55
  Speaker 10: old claims he cannot remember anything and is clearly distraught.
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: Am I learning all of these facts from a seemingly
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: unrelated custody argument the family dynamic lands this very very
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: blended family in court fighting over.
• 31:17
  Speaker 5: Custody of the younger children?
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: Straight out to investigative journalist Susan Hendrix, Why am I
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: having to learn all of this from a seemingly unrelated
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: custody fight.
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, and the infighting it's been going on a while,
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: and we're getting information from this through that, as you said,
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: And where is the outrage the suspect's older brother. It
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: stood out to me that he said he was put
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: in a choke hold. So is that where I'm guessing
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: that the suspect learned to do that? But you're right, Nancy,
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: we are only hearing details through this somewhat unrelated hearing.
• 31:57
  Speaker 5: It's just very.
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: Complicated and I feel, you know what's missing the outrage
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: of this eighteen year old girl, Anna.
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, everybody was sitting in court, they were all on sedatives,
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: talking about custody issues. When Anna, we believe is either
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: nude or parsley nude, dead, wrapped mummy style in a
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: blanket and stuffed under a twin bed, Sydney. How long
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: was it the parents didn't see Anna on the cruise
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: and didn't check on her.
• 32:26
  Speaker 16: Sixteen hours that Anna was not checked on, seen alive
• 32:31
  Speaker 16: before her body is found brutally stuffed under that bed,
• 32:35
  Speaker 16: hidden covered with these life jackets.
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: Susan Hendricks, do we have any idea where they were
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: while Anna was stuffed dead under that twin bed?
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: Well, we heard this also at the emergency custody hearing.
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: Anna stepmom Chantal said that she went in her room
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: at seven pm, that she was tired. She was there
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: for the night, went to sleep, but again we don't
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: know what she was doing all day. She asked about gambling.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: She said that Anna was eighteen, so she assumed she
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: was in the casino. But again no supervision. And guess
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: what Nancy? She was asked during this Chantelle on the stand,
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: is it true that they stayed across the hall, all
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: of them together, her stepbrother, her biological brother, and her
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: And she said yes, it was recommended by the travel agent.
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I heard she tried to blame
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: the travel agency. Okay, how are we finding out all
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: of this information?
• 33:28
  Speaker 5: Listen?
• 33:29
  Speaker 10: A family court hearing regarding Thomas Hudson's emergency petition for
• 33:33
  Speaker 10: custody of the nine year old daughter he shares with
• 33:35
  Speaker 10: Chantell Hudson reveals new details and Anna Kupner's murderer. Hudson
• 33:39
  Speaker 10: tells the court he's concerned for Brooks safety under Chantell
• 33:43
  Speaker 10: Hudson and Christopher Kepner's care due to their failure to
• 33:46
  Speaker 10: supervise their children during the cruise. Thomas didn't want the
• 33:49
  Speaker 10: children to take Chantell Hudson testifies her sixteen year old
• 33:53
  Speaker 10: son staying with relatives after his release from psychiatric observation.
• 33:57
  Speaker 5: Oh my goodness, let me understa something. Wait a minute.
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: Susan Hendrix, the judge in this hearing, confirmed the teen
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: step brother is the main suspect in Anna's choke hold asphyxiation.
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: That's the murder. There's no two ways around it. Choke
• 34:19
  Speaker 5: cold asphyxiation, her neck covered in bruises. And his punishment
• 34:23
  Speaker 5: is how he has to go with with relatives. That's
• 34:27
  Speaker 5: the punishment.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: Even Chantelle and the suspect's mom said that he was
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: the only one seen in and out. It's like they're
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: all in agreement that, yeah, he's the main suspect. Why
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: is and he arrested? He's staying with her relatives, just
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: staying there, chatting on the phone.
• 34:43
  Speaker 5: Okay, still what.
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: I don't know how to say this without my head exploding.
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: But he's a suspect and a brutal murder of a
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: little teen cheerleader who's stuffed under the twin bed. Nobody
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: knows she's missing for nearly a day, Nobody checks on
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: on her.
• 35:00
  Speaker 5: There she is.
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: He is a suspect, and he is quote sent to
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: live with relatives. That's his punishment.
• 35:08
  Speaker 5: I might as well just sit him in the corner.
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: Let's jump to the fact that this teen step brother
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: suspect skipped his daily drug cocktail and he missed I
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: believe two days that he was prescribed.
• 35:25
  Speaker 5: And now she's dead. To doctor Kendle Crown's joining us.
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: He is a renowned chief medical examiner in Tyrant County.
• 35:33
  Speaker 5: That's fort worth.
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: If he skipped his daily meds, what would happen as
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: a withdrawal? And is agitation a side effect of this
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: particular drug.
• 35:47
  Speaker 17: So the answer is yes. Clonadine is used to treat
• 35:50
  Speaker 17: ADHD and hyper or high blood pressure. When you stop
• 35:55
  Speaker 17: taking it, you get rebound headaches and you also get irritability,
• 35:59
  Speaker 17: mood swings, agitation, and it kind of increasing in your
• 36:03
  Speaker 17: ADHD symptoms coming back. So he may be having psychomotor
• 36:08
  Speaker 17: disturbances are like he can't sit still or he can't
• 36:11
  Speaker 17: control his thoughts and thoughts are racing and all that's
• 36:14
  Speaker 17: going to be occurring during these two days and becoming
• 36:16
  Speaker 17: worse the longer he's off the medication, and.
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: Any potential alcohol consumption is only gas on the fire.
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: I've got another issue, and what we're talking about is
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: no supervision of these things. I want you to hear
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: what the younger brother says happens the night Anna is murdered.
• 36:39
  Speaker 18: Anna's brother heard a heated argument between them in their
• 36:42
  Speaker 18: cabin the night before Anna was found dead. He heard
• 36:45
  Speaker 18: the stepbrother yelling at Anna. The sounds of furniture overturning
• 36:49
  Speaker 18: and screams from inside their room.
• 36:52
  Speaker 11: He heard and yelling at her, like in an harmful
• 36:55
  Speaker 11: way of like shut the hell up and stuff like that,
• 36:58
  Speaker 11: Like something was like banging around and stuff, and like
• 37:02
  Speaker 11: the chairs were getting thrown around in the room.
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: Now that is Anna Kettner's little Eggs boyfriend, and he
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: learned that information obviously from the younger brother. That's from
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: our friends at Inside Edition. Let me understand, Susan Hendrix.
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: I'm trying to figure out when the step brother, the
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: little brother, the fourteen year old, is hearing chairs being
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: thrown again around and the sixteen year old yelling shut
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: the hell up at Anna, when you hear a physical
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: fight going on, the little fourteen year old brother standing
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: out in the hall.
• 37:42
  Speaker 5: Listening, cowering, afraid.
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: So while Anna, we believe, is getting bar holed asphyxiated
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: in her own room, what ten feet across the way
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: I mean, the hallways are about four feet wide max.
• 38:01
  Speaker 5: And they're in the next room over.
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: Where were they asleep? Why couldn't he just knock on
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: the door? What really happened? Why didn't they just walk
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: across the hall and put it into it?
• 38:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: Why didn't they hear that? And the fourteen year old
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: You're right, Nancy, why didn't he just knock on the door?
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: By the way, the grandparents were one floor above. Could
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: he run up there? Could he scream out for help? Nothing?
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: Then he went back in and he didn't see Anna. Meanwhile,
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: she's dead under the bed. How did she die? How
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: did she literally slip through the cracks with her parents
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: right across the hall. Even if they just heard that
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: and didn't believe it from the ex boyfriend that something
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: went on, you knew that that was in the back
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: of your head. And he put them in a room
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: together unsupervised on a cruise. It's unforgivable.
• 38:50
  Speaker 5: What does Anna Kaptner, the Teen cheerleaders biological mother, have
• 38:56
  Speaker 5: to say about all of this?
• 38:58
  Speaker 12: Listen, you cheated on me with twenty four other women,
• 39:02
  Speaker 12: including Kaby, and then he married her after she turned eighteen.
• 39:05
  Speaker 12: And I'm not okay with that mind you. I say that,
• 39:09
  Speaker 12: but I'm not mad at Tabitha. Tabitha is a great person.
• 39:13
  Speaker 12: She was a mother to my daughter what I couldn't be.
• 39:17
  Speaker 10: By the time Anna is five, Christopher Kaepner is having
• 39:20
  Speaker 10: an affair with the teenage babysitter. When Tabitha Donna Hugh
• 39:24
  Speaker 10: turns eighteen, Chris marries her and they have two children together.
• 39:28
  Speaker 10: Heather has a hard time maintaining a relationship with Anna
• 39:31
  Speaker 10: due to the bitter divorce with Chris.
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: That from at Just Mom nineteen eighty four, TikTok joining
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: me right now? Is the bio mom, the biological mother
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: of Anna Ketner, the teen cheerleader sister Crystal right, thank
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: you for being with us, Miss Wright. How is the
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: bio mom handling everything that she is learning about her
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: daughter's death.
• 40:00
  Speaker 13: I think he's trying to keep it together. She's trying to.
• 40:04
  Speaker 9: Do right for Anna and make sure that those that
• 40:07
  Speaker 9: are accountable are Hew the accountable.
• 40:09
  Speaker 5: What does she make of the fact there is no arrest.
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: Yet he is beside herself, But at the same time, she's.
• 40:19
  Speaker 9: Just trying to tell herself that it's because they want
• 40:22
  Speaker 9: to make sure they get him properly charged and that.
• 40:25
  Speaker 8: His charge is able to uphold in court, so that
• 40:27
  Speaker 8: he does take the time.
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: To Heather's understanding. What has she been told? Certainly law
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: enforcement has briefed Anna Katner's biological mother about what happened.
• 40:40
  Speaker 14: Yeah, No, Heather doesn't know anything, said, she finds out
• 40:43
  Speaker 14: from the news.
• 40:43
  Speaker 9: She just sits and waits for the news.
• 40:46
  Speaker 5: That is horrible.
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: No one is speaking to her and telling her what
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: happened to her daughter. Isn't it true, Crystal, that the
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: biomom Heather Right had to sneak into her own daughter's memory?
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: He did.
• 41:01
  Speaker 8: Chris had told her that if she attempted to come
• 41:03
  Speaker 8: that he was going to have her arrested for back
• 41:05
  Speaker 8: told support.
• 41:06
  Speaker 19: He never I was trying to call me and get
• 41:08
  Speaker 19: a hold of me and say anything.
• 41:09
  Speaker 12: When she died, I found out through the.
• 41:11
  Speaker 5: Google from which too.
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: That is heart breaking. The biological mother, he Her Right,
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: has had nothing but trouble since her split with Christopher.
• 41:24
  Speaker 5: Captain Listen.
• 41:26
  Speaker 12: Christopher made it next to impossible for me to have
• 41:31
  Speaker 12: a relationship with my daughter. He made it extremely hard
• 41:36
  Speaker 12: for me to see her. He would ignore my phone calls,
• 41:40
  Speaker 12: not tell any that they called and then call like
• 41:44
  Speaker 12: a week and a half. Two weeks later and anm'ed like, maman,
• 41:47
  Speaker 12: he called me, and I'm like, I've been calling you.
• 41:50
  Speaker 12: You didn't get any of my voicemails. Your dad didn't
• 41:53
  Speaker 12: let you listen to him? No, he said he didn't called.
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: Joining us in addition to an all star panel of
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: experts is the man who captured video of Anna Kettner,
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: the teen cheerleader found stuffed dead. We still don't know
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: whether she was clothed or unclothed, crammed under a bunk on.
• 42:14
  Speaker 5: A cruise line. There she is obscured by life vests.
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: And her body there for hours and hours before anyone even.
• 42:25
  Speaker 5: Notices she's missing. Where were the parents? For Pete's sake?
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: A guy named Nick Giddons was taking video on the
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: cruise line of a big party the night before a
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: dance party.
• 42:39
  Speaker 5: And here she is.
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: There is Anna, so happy, so full of life, dancing
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: in a line dance. It's hard to accept she would
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: be dead, her body decomposing on a cruise trip. Anna
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: Kettner the last dance video Now, that is from our
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: new friend Nick Capo. That's Nick Capo six h nine
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: on TikTok and he's with us tonight.
• 43:12
  Speaker 7: Nick.
• 43:13
  Speaker 5: What happened?
• 43:13
  Speaker 4: How did you manage to take that video?
• 43:18
  Speaker 9: So that was the setaway party. That's the party to
• 43:21
  Speaker 9: get the crew started when we start selling away from
• 43:23
  Speaker 9: port within Port of Miami and you know, just my
• 43:27
  Speaker 9: family then also in the video hotel was the Core
• 43:29
  Speaker 9: and them and just you know, just going around and
• 43:31
  Speaker 9: paying around saying, you know, you showing everybody having a
• 43:34
  Speaker 9: good time and stuff like that.
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: When you took the video, you had no idea that
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: Anna Kettner would be murdered within hours. When did you
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: realize the video that you took showed her as it's
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: called Last Dance.
• 43:49
  Speaker 9: I posted the video that day, November second, but it
• 43:52
  Speaker 9: was after you know, everything happened and stuff like that
• 43:55
  Speaker 9: where somebody commented on a video, I mean on a
• 43:58
  Speaker 9: video and they said that like, oh my god, that's
• 44:01
  Speaker 9: the girl that you know I killed. And then I
• 44:03
  Speaker 9: went back and watched it. And then when I watched
• 44:06
  Speaker 9: it and I seen her again, I see his grandma
• 44:07
  Speaker 9: and everything too, and that's why I changed it up
• 44:10
  Speaker 9: a little bit and you know, you know, put the
• 44:11
  Speaker 9: stuff on there, and that's when I posted it or
• 44:14
  Speaker 9: uploaded again. There's actually two videos. Was you know the
• 44:18
  Speaker 9: two songs players that why I'm seeing the songs. And
• 44:20
  Speaker 9: then there's a cupid shuffle song. I can't remember which
• 44:24
  Speaker 9: one the grandpa was in, uh, but one of them,
• 44:27
  Speaker 9: I don't know. I don't, I dot ever know what
• 44:28
  Speaker 9: the stuff I to look like. I don't know if
• 44:30
  Speaker 9: he was in the video or not.
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: And here she is in that second clip that Nick
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: managed to video, dancing and it shows she's dancing with
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: her grandparents as look you know what, Nick Giddens, I
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: am so glad that you took that video and realized
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: what it was and posted it because it shows her
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: Anna keptner to me in a different light, I mean,
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: really just scrubbed in sunshine.
• 44:58
  Speaker 5: There she is dancing with her grandparents.
• 45:03
  Speaker 20: It just.
• 45:04
  Speaker 5: Precious.
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: Guys, you were seeing video taking his handle is Nick
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: Capo six zero nine on TikTok. Nick Geddon's joining us tonight,
• 45:16
  Speaker 4: Joseph Scott Morgan joining me, professor of forensics, you as
• 45:20
  Speaker 4: an expert, A forensic expert, a death investigator has stated
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: that the infantile way in which Anna's body was concealed
• 45:31
  Speaker 4: could point directly to her killer.
• 45:35
  Speaker 5: Explain yourself.
• 45:37
  Speaker 7: Yeah, of course, because this is something that was done spontaneously.
• 45:41
  Speaker 7: If you think about the body covering, this is a
• 45:45
  Speaker 7: matter of convenience. What do I have in my in
• 45:49
  Speaker 7: arms reach in order to conceal the body? And from
• 45:53
  Speaker 7: the infantile perspective, you have deluded yourself, the perpetrator or
• 45:59
  Speaker 7: whoever did this, the concealment, that is, you have deluded
• 46:03
  Speaker 7: yourself into thinking that, oh, yeah, well, if I put
• 46:06
  Speaker 7: her here, no one will ever find her. This is
• 46:09
  Speaker 7: an event where somebody is trying to shield the body
• 46:13
  Speaker 7: so they can get distance from the body.
• 46:15
  Speaker 4: I agree with everything that you just said, Joe Scott Morgan,
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: but still I need clarification.
• 46:21
  Speaker 5: We often see some.
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: Of that videos from our friends at Mojo South on TikTok.
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: When we're looking under the bed. When you say bunk,
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: you may think of a bunk bed, one on top
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: of the other. It's more like this in that particular
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: cruise room. We are also learning tonight that video does exist.
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: It's only been talked about or speculated upon in the past.
• 46:43
  Speaker 4: Video does exist of Anna Kapner going alone to her room.
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: Her braces were bothering her that night at dinner, she
• 46:53
  Speaker 4: goes alone to her room. Video then reveals other family members,
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: the younger brother and the older step brother going into
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: the room. Further video shows the little brother leaving the
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: room alone and then wandering around the ship all by
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: himself for the evening, but Anna doesn't leave the room
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: and the step brother doesn't leave the room four hours
• 47:22
  Speaker 4: in fact, Anna never leaves the room.
• 47:26
  Speaker 5: To Michelle Spitzer joining us out.
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: Of Melbourne, Florida, Investigative Reporter USA today, what can you
• 47:33
  Speaker 4: tell us about the video?
• 47:35
  Speaker 15: In these court hearings that the stepbrothers biological parents have had,
• 47:41
  Speaker 15: they are the ones who have named their son as
• 47:44
  Speaker 15: a suspect, and his biological mother actually said in text
• 47:51
  Speaker 15: messages that were revealed in court documents. She sent a
• 47:54
  Speaker 15: text message to her ex husband saying once the autopsy
• 47:59
  Speaker 15: results are dealed, we will see if he is charged,
• 48:03
  Speaker 15: which I think is very telling.
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: The step brother is innocent until proven guilty.
• 48:12
  Speaker 12: I got some news today on my daughter's case. They
• 48:16
  Speaker 12: are going to charge her sixteen year old stepbrother for
• 48:22
  Speaker 12: first degree murder, and there's gonna be some other charges brought,
• 48:26
  Speaker 12: but I'm not sure what they are yet. Until they
• 48:30
  Speaker 12: tell me, I don't know so that is one of
• 48:33
  Speaker 12: the charges and as soon as I know more, I
• 48:35
  Speaker 12: will let you guys know. Thanks support and support.
• 48:37
  Speaker 5: That is Anna Kettner's biological mother, Heather Right. But then
• 48:42
  Speaker 5: she posts this.
• 48:45
  Speaker 12: So I guess I was wrong with my update the
• 48:47
  Speaker 12: other day. Apparently the charge with anything when he went
• 48:53
  Speaker 12: to cedal Core and so I'm not sure what that's
• 48:56
  Speaker 12: all about. I also heard that he's being tried as
• 48:59
  Speaker 12: JUNI not an his adult, which is up because that
• 49:02
  Speaker 12: boy knew what he was doing when he did it.
• 49:05
  Speaker 5: No, it's Andrew.
• 49:07
  Speaker 12: What's about it?
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean?
• 49:09
  Speaker 12: So everybody's pray for me, pray, Well, that's my daughter.
• 49:13
  Speaker 12: Beg y'all. Blah blah blah for love y'all.
• 49:17
  Speaker 4: That again was Anna Kipner's mother, Heather Right, posting very
• 49:22
  Speaker 4: very upset. She can't quite seem to get to the
• 49:24
  Speaker 4: bottom of what the charges are straight out to Sidney Sumner,
• 49:29
  Speaker 4: joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter Sydney, I think the
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: confusion stems from the fact that it's all under wraps.
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: It's sealed because it's juvenile records. But according to the
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: step father, which is Anna's Anna Kipner's bio Dad and
• 49:46
  Speaker 4: according to ABC and other outlets, charges have been filed
• 49:52
  Speaker 4: against the step brother.
• 49:55
  Speaker 5: What do we know?
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: What do we really know other than we saw him
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: go going from juvenile court. Let's see the video from
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: juvenile court to federal court where he would be charged
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: if he's being charged as a fed. This is where
• 50:10
  Speaker 4: our friends at Fox thirty five Orlando. By the way,
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: that appears to be his public defender with him. So
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: he's got his lawyer with him and he's going to
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: federal court where the whole thing started. This could be
• 50:24
  Speaker 4: a matter of it's being handed over to state authorities
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: to lodge charges. But what do we actually know, Sidney Sumner.
• 50:33
  Speaker 8: Well, right, like you said, we know that Chris Kepner
• 50:37
  Speaker 8: has commented that this team step brother has been charged.
• 50:41
  Speaker 8: We do not know what with Captner did not go
• 50:45
  Speaker 8: that far. He mentioned charges, but did not get into
• 50:47
  Speaker 8: the specifics of what those charges are. And we know
• 50:52
  Speaker 8: that his relationship with Heather Wright and his mom is
• 50:56
  Speaker 8: fraught with tension. They aren't on good terms. So the
• 51:00
  Speaker 8: information that she's getting is not only second hand but
• 51:03
  Speaker 8: also coming from the father. So whatever Chris Kutner is
• 51:07
  Speaker 8: deciding to tell, how They're right, is what she's going
• 51:10
  Speaker 8: off of. So yes, keeping all of these records under
• 51:14
  Speaker 8: seal is leading a lot to question right.
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: Now, Bombshell Tonight, the step brother of a teen girl
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: high school cheerleader killed on board a carnival cruise ship
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: last year, has been officially charged with her murder, and
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: he is being charged as an adult. Is it true,
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: Sidney Sumner that the documents reveal she was sex assaulted
• 51:43
  Speaker 4: before she was strangled?
• 51:45
  Speaker 5: That's correct.
• 51:47
  Speaker 20: Timothy Hudson is accused of sexually assaulting his older stepsister
• 51:53
  Speaker 20: and then choking her to death to cover up that crime.
• 51:58
  Speaker 4: Anna Kettner's stepbrother, now charged months and months after she
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: was found dead on a cruise ship. He will be
• 52:07
  Speaker 4: tried as an adult. Anna Keptner's dad says, I found
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: her cold naked body stuffed under a bunk. Her own
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: dad pulls his daughter's dead body from under a bunk
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: on the cruise line. Now he vows he will not
• 52:34
  Speaker 4: sit through testimony. His mind, his heart, and his soul
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: cannot go back to that room.
• 52:42
  Speaker 5: Where his daughter was murdered.
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: Robert Crispin is joining us now private investigator at Crispin
• 52:49
  Speaker 4: Special Investigations.
• 52:51
  Speaker 5: You hear what the dad is saying. He refuses to
• 52:55
  Speaker 5: go back.
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: Into that courtroom, to go into the courtroom and revisit
• 53:00
  Speaker 4: that room again in his mind, his heart, his soul,
• 53:04
  Speaker 4: where he found his daughter stuffed under a bed, cold
• 53:10
  Speaker 4: to the touch and naked.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: Do you blame him, listen, I being a father, I
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: don't want to ever have to deal with something like that.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: I don't blame him. But unfortunately, this is the federal
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: government and this is a homicide investigation, and by hook
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: or crook, he's gonna have to testify, and the government's
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: gonna have to put him on the stand. He's the
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: one who found Anna dead. He's the first person back
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: to her body to find her naked, wrapped in the
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: blanket and covered in life jackets and finding her lifeless, cold,
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: no pulse body. You don't get to not testify. I
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: completely understand that. I'm compassionate with him, but he is
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: a major indicator of moving this case forward.
• 53:58
  Speaker 4: Robert, You've been there location over and over and over.
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: But this is what's happening right now. The perp is
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: living in a residential home. He's not in jail.
• 54:09
  Speaker 5: He's walking free. Now.
• 54:12
  Speaker 4: This little girl, Anna keptner had been afraid of him
• 54:17
  Speaker 4: for a really long time. Tonight, Crispin, we are learning
• 54:21
  Speaker 4: that the little brother, the one that was banned from
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: the room so Anna could be raped and killed.
• 54:27
  Speaker 5: That little brother.
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: We are now learning, Crispin, that there are reports the
• 54:31
  Speaker 4: little brother went to the mom, the stepmom and the
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: dad and told them something's happening, something's wrong, and nobody
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: did anything, Crispin, nothing.
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: So if it's true, Nancy, and there are some banter
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: that that happened, and there is a superseding indictment that
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: is potentially coming down the road. There were multiple indicators
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: that we've learned through this story, Nancy, that this perpetrator,
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: the killer, had a problem, and a lot of people
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: knew that. You ever hear the term see something, say
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: something that goes right down the line of what happened here?
• 55:09
  Speaker 4: You know, it's amazing to me the way this is
• 55:12
  Speaker 4: playing out. He is still out free. She's dead, isn't it?
• 55:18
  Speaker 11: Trey?
• 55:18
  Speaker 5: Michelle Spitzer that her.
• 55:20
  Speaker 4: High school graduation just happened and the dad, the bio
• 55:24
  Speaker 4: dad had to accept her diploma.
• 55:27
  Speaker 5: What happened?
• 55:28
  Speaker 19: That's three, Nancy, Her dad did go up and accept
• 55:32
  Speaker 19: her diploma.
• 55:32
  Speaker 5: On for behalf.
• 55:34
  Speaker 19: It was a very emotional moment. He wore butterflies on
• 55:38
  Speaker 19: a shirt in honor of his daughter. It's a very
• 55:42
  Speaker 19: small private school. There's only about twenty kids in the
• 55:45
  Speaker 19: graduating class. The valedictorians spoke about Anna, spoke about what
• 55:50
  Speaker 19: she meant the class, how much she has missed. There
• 55:54
  Speaker 19: was no mention about the suspect there, and it was
• 55:57
  Speaker 19: all focused on Anna and how much she is messed.
• 56:02
  Speaker 4: Michelle Spitzer, isn't it true that the siblings, Oh, this
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: is from our friends at Good Morning America. Isn't it
• 56:08
  Speaker 4: true that these siblings set up her little senior table
• 56:12
  Speaker 4: with all of her pictures and memorabilia.
• 56:15
  Speaker 19: Family members did set up this table to revenusce about
• 56:20
  Speaker 19: Anna I and remember her in the good times. Her
• 56:23
  Speaker 19: family has said they want her to be remembered by
• 56:26
  Speaker 19: the way she lived, not the way she died, and
• 56:29
  Speaker 19: so there were a lot of good memories.
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: Everyone in this case, including the defendant, including the parents,
• 56:36
  Speaker 4: are innocent in the eyes of the law, unless and
• 56:41
  Speaker 4: until the state pierces the presumption of innocence with facts
• 56:46
  Speaker 4: and evidence to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. We wait,
• 56:50
  Speaker 4: as justice unfolds, but please know the state is building
• 56:53
  Speaker 4: its case, as.
• 56:54
  Speaker 5: Is the defense.
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: If you know anything about this case, please dial seven
• 57:01
  Speaker 4: seven zero three two thousand, seven five four seven zero
• 57:05
  Speaker 4: three two thousand. We remember an American hero. Trooper Donald Brackett,
• 57:11
  Speaker 4: Pennsylvania State Police, passed away in the line of duty
• 57:14
  Speaker 4: after seventeen years on the force, leaving behind his wife
• 57:19
  Speaker 4: now widow, Marta, and daughters Gabriella and Brianna. American hero
• 57:25
  Speaker 4: Trooper Donald Brackett. Thank you to our guest, but especially
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: to you for being with us tonight. Nancy Grace signing
• 57:33
  Speaker 4: off for tonight, but I'll see you tomorrow night, and
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: until then, good night friend,