Latest / Caught on the Mike... / "Deep in the Ocean" with singer/songwriter- Dusty Grant

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"Deep in the Ocean" with singer/songwriter- Dusty Grant · Caught on the Mike...

• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes people coming your life for a short period of time.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: You realize the simple resembles the meme of the three Spider-Man pointing at each other.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: I've no five next podcast for the fellow part of 20 years.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: We do two chair stages together.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: Now he is a fellow podcaster.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: He is also an MMA enthusiast, and he's an independent tear songwriter based out of Widgetal Internet.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'd like to welcome Dusty Grant to the show today, and he is going to talk about his latest release, Oceans, that came out on April 8th, 2022.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: Ladies and gentlemen, this is caught on the mic.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: Ladies and gentlemen, I am sitting across my old friend Dusty Grant.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: He's coming in from Wichita, Kansas.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: Is that where you're at right now, man?
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in Wichita, Kansas, just sir.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: Fan fucking tastic.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: The funny thing is, is Dusty and I have known each other for the better part of 20 years.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: And as I said in the intro, you kind of have these connections that only last a short period of time with people, and then you lose touch with them.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then when you reconnect again, you realize the parallels that your lives have taken in that short period of time.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: The the thing that I compared it to is the the meme of the three Spider-Men pointing at each other.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: We're like two of the three Spider-Men right now, bro.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, when we like when we became friends on, I think we first reconnected on Facebook.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then I saw that you were, I don't know if you were doing the podcast first or if I was doing the podcast, but you know, we knew each other through music and all that.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, man, me and him need to do a podcast together.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: We probably had a lot to talk about.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: And now a year and a half later, uh, into me doing mine, here we are.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: So that's yeah, that's fantastic.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm stoked, man.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: I've been looking forward to doing this one for sure.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, me as well.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, our mutual friend Matt Frampton was on the seventh episode of my podcast, and that was the thing we talked about when the recording stopped was man, we gotta hook up with Dusty and and do an episode sometime soon.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: Without any further ado, sir, I'm gonna hand it over to you.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: Let's talk a little bit about your origin story.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: Introduce yourself to my audience, kind of tell them who you are and uh kind of your station in life right now.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, my name is Dusty Grant.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a musician, songwriter.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, first and foremost, I guess I'm starting to accept that, that that's never gonna be something that's ever going to leave me.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: I've tried to, I've tried to get away from it a few times, and it always ends up doing it.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: So now I've kind of accepted that.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um I have a I've got a full-time career as well.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've got kids, I've got a family, I've got a wife, I'm happily married.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've got a brown belt and Brazilian jujitsu.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: I've been kickboxing for seven or eight years.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, been taking a little break off from that just due to some injury stuff.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I'm not getting any younger and I've needed to kind of be in shape for the uh for the music stuff.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I've really been leaning into the music lately, mostly.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's really all about just taking care of my family, taking care of my friends, and then and then pushing the music as hard as I possibly can with every free minute I have.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: I've been completely obsessed lately and uh, you know, been working on mental health.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a big advocate for men's mental health.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've had some very difficult mental health struggles over the last couple of years, and I'm finally kind of getting a handle on that stuff.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I talk about that stuff really openly because I think it's good for for tough guys to talk about mental health, you know.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: I uh and um so those are the those are the main things about me, man.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: If those those are that pretty much tells you who I am in a in a very short period of time.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, those are brilliant bullet points because again, I reiterate, we are like spider-men pointing at each other right now.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, how have you handled and navigated um the oddity that's been the past two years with COVID and with the diametric opposition with society right now?
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, as being a mental health advocate, as I am as well, and I'm open with my mental health struggles, this has been a challenging couple of years for guys like us, hasn't it?
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: It has.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, I I remember when the pandemic started, I canceled about 30 shows that I had booked.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and as a guy that does it all myself, as an independent guy, that's soul crushing because you know how hard it is to get those shows.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: I had them booked in seven states, I had tours booked, and I had to cancel everything.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Stuff I was really looking forward to, um, just completely gone.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I leaned into the podcasting thing.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I have to figure out a way to stay connected to my audience.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: I want to continue to reach people, I want to continue because I was making these, I was going on the road playing shows and making these connections with people, and I did not want to let those connections lapse, not for for my own gain or anything, but for you know, spiritual gain for for both of us, making friendships and kinships and stuff.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I've got all I've met all these cool people.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: I want to show how can I showcase them?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: How can I showcase the guys that I train with these with these amazing stories?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: So that the podcast kind of came about that way.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in the last year or so, I haven't really been affected by it too much.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I think I was really depressed before, didn't really know how depressed I was, probably got into some medicating way too heavily during the pandemic because there was nothing else to do for a while there.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, just started drinking a little heavier, stuff like that.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then um I had a couple buddies commit suicide.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I had another close friend of mine that was killed in the hit and run.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, another close friend of mine was in a bad accident and was paralyzed, and uh it just everything just hit me, you know, and I had to get a handle on it.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of where I am now.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just now starting to kind of come out on the other side of it.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of that stuff happened in a fair, fairly short period of time.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it was um as a guy that was depressed before from some family law issues that I had had and some stuff like that.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I had never dealt with it because I didn't trust anybody.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: I got I got ran through the ringer on that end of things, and we don't have to get into that.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I ran away from dealing with my issues, and over the last two years, I could no longer run from it.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: I was starting to really, you know, treat trying to, I was like, I was I started noticing when guys at the gym would be like, hey dude, instead of rolling, why don't we just go talk?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like they can see it on your face.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: And and so I I I finally started getting a handle on it and and uh been really leaning into music the last year.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we got some really big shows last year, um, and things kind of took off for me.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: And now this is you know where we're at now.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I I'm I'm grateful to be here.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm grateful to be here with a clear mind.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'm just I'm excited about the future now.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying not to look, I'm not trying not to look back, you know.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: Again, drawing parallels, you know, before the pandemic set in, I feel like I was probably in the best mental health shape, or I at least I had myself convinced that I was in the best mental health shape of my life.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: I was focusing on my fitness, I was in a routine, the pandemic hit, my routines fell apart, and I slowly started pulling apart.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I've covered this in recent episodes of the podcast where I, you know, had it all crashed down in September.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody would know it unless I told you, but I had it all crashed down in September, and I thought I had damn near a nervous breakdown this last September.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I'd always treated exercise as a way to bypass antidepressants or bypass any kind of medication intervention.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: Same here.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I have no problem letting people know.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I went to see a doctor, I got on Zoloft, and you know, everything kind of mellowed itself out.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: And there's no harm and no foul in seeking seeking that help out when you need it.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it just the weight of the world felt like it was crushing down.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: And when you break routines that you're used to doing, you're it has a huge impact on your mental health.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm in a similar pay place as you right now.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I'm just now starting to recoil and come back to life from it.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, I I said that 2022 was going to be the year for me to where I re-engaged with my sense of discipline um because I'm trying to fall back into the routines that worked instead of trying to break things that weren't broken in the first place, if that makes sense.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: I I was the same way, and and I I still I still am that way a little bit.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm a I'm um I never stop moving.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, I'm always motoring.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like the training has been very light over the last year.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: I had a pretty serious neck injury, um, so I haven't been taking any risks with that.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it was from jujitsu and from training, so I I mean, what can you do?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: You you've you've got you're you got a neck injury to where your hand's going numb.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: You probably shouldn't be training, right?
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I've been taking breaks off from that, but I've I've really I I've always stayed busy, I think, to kind of like hide hide from shit to to kind of like look, I'm fine.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Look at me, I'm working out every day, I'm in great shape, I train all the time.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm playing, I'm I'm productive.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Look how productive I am, right?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and inside you're just dying.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: And and things are and things, and then things hit, and you know, you're I was not even close to equipped to deal with the things that happened over the last couple of years.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of that was because I was not self-aware enough to even understand my depression, to understand my anxiety before those things happened.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: So when those things happened, there was nowhere to hide.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: I had to get a handle on it.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: I was you know, scaring people around me and stuff like that.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I do not want to do that.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a I'm a family man at heart, so I had to get that shit under control.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: Taking it back to the music side of things, um, when did you start going out and playing these solo acoustic shows that were kind of the root of where your career currently is musically?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: I started in 2017.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my wife and I had twins, um, and they were actually in the NICU for seven weeks because they came premature, and that was a very scary time in my life.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I finally got them home and realized I want to do music, but I can't be in a band right now because how could I expect a band to put up with my schedule the way it is, to caring for newborn twins?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: My wife needed me.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't be out of the house that much, traveling, doing all that stuff.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I picked up an acoustic and I started learning to play.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I dabbled with playing before, um, just being around bands for such a long time, but I never sat down and like tried to write a song or tried to actually learn to play.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I sat down, I started writing songs, and my brother-in-law encouraged me to get out and play a little bit.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I, my friend Kenny Ballinger gave me my first show here in Wichita, and I played that show, and from there on I was just hungry to do it.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it was September of 2017, is when I when I started out with the solo acoustic stuff, and I just I was playing any show I could get at that point.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: People that knew you before then, and people that were familiar with your past work with other bands and such, how did they react to the acoustic material whenever it started?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I had this is a loaded question.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: There's a reason I'm asking this.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: It was mixed reviews for sure.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because the especially in this area, the the previous band that I had been in was fairly successful.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: We opened some pretty big shows and we were heavy.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: It was a metal core band.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was screaming and singing, and it was it was it was pretty heavy.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I you get out there and you're playing some acoustic stuff, and it it kind of those metal heads show up and they're like, what happened to you, bro?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but the dark, the darkness of the stuff that I've always kind of written kind of stayed true with the acoustic stuff, so I was able to get away with it, and it actually was kind of cool because I started getting offers to play on country shows, Americana shows, metal, I would open metal shows, and and it ended up started working out pretty well for me.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: For it was very mixed at first, and then I when I kind of leaned into it and I really started getting comfortable up there and playing some bigger stuff, then it it started to, I think, resonate with people a little bit more.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, after my last band, which was a similar band, kind of a metal core type band, where I was screaming and I was doing kind of the punk thing, I took a few years off and then I started doing the solo acoustic thing for a little while.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: And the common response I got was, man, you should have been doing this the whole time.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Well, I'm just doing it for fun.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: And to be quite honest with you, my heart just isn't in it anymore.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: So um, you know, that is one thing where we do have a little bit of a difference, is you know, the music has stayed with you and you've stayed pure to the music.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: I had to have that self-actualization that maybe I was more into the promotion side of things, I was more into the networking side of things than I was the actual performance stuff.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: And when I was honest with myself about that, you know, I was able to walk away with it or walk away from it a little bit more cleanly.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: So let's talk about the evolution of this.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: You've done some some small tours um as Dusty Grant solo artist.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: What's been your highlight so far?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, uh most of my highlights happened last year.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: I I got I don't know how it happened.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it just is a testament to hard work and dedication and consistency and never giving up and walking and taking those shots and constantly going through it and the ups and downs and all, but uh it kind of everything kind of came to fruition for me last year.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we had the opportunity to open up for Chris Daughtry, and that was a huge show.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was a huge opportunity.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: We had an absolutely stellar performance.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we gained a ton of fanfare around the area for that one, and then also I had a huge goal to play the Cotillion here in Wichita, which is I think about an 1800 cap space.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when I got to open up for a for a national artist from American Idol, um, and that was a solo acoustic show.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I played the two biggest shows with full band and solo that I'd pretty much played.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then the band thing has really started to, I'm no, I don't feel like I'm solo anymore.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like the band thing is really starting to come come back to me.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I found a really good group of musicians and we're all really invested in it, and it's just it's it has been an absolute pleasure in my life.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've been in band situations where it's frustrating all the time, and it's like you're in a relationship or a marriage with four people that you that get on your nerves that that you have to babysit or whatever it might be.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: And this group is there's none of that.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it's such a beautiful, beautiful group of people.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I'm just grateful every time I get in a room to play with them, whether it's in a jam room or on a stage or whatever.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: So do you think it's because of the station that you're at in life and a lot of the self-actualization that you had that maybe working with you in particular is a little bit different than maybe what it was five years ago?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, definitely, definitely.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think that has a lot to do with it.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think maybe I was a bit of a tyrant before.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and probably, you know, I was drinking a lot.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it was not like, you know, bottle of vodka before work, but it was when I went out, I went out, you know, and I partied hard.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, every once in a while I still cut loose a little bit, but I can't afford to do that with my life these days.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's also, I think it has a lot to do with maturity.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I think it took me a long time to to be mature and accept that I did have some issues that were my fault, not other, and and I was blaming it on other people all the time, and it was always somebody else's problem.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, when I started acknowledging that these are my problems and these are things I need to address, suddenly I'm a happier person.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Suddenly the people around me are happier around me.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, suddenly I'm a better dad, suddenly I'm a better husband, those types of things.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and I I don't think it's any different with the band situation.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's fully transparent.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: If someone has a feeling, they can come to me, I can go to them.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: If you sound like shit, I can tell you and your feelings aren't going to get hurt.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: If I do, you can tell me.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: It and it and there's no, you know, ulterior motive behind it, and there's no resent.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's like everybody's doing it for the purity of the project.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it's and it's just, I'm just blessed to be in this situation that I'm in right now.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: I feel um, whether or not it's a big money maker or a career-changing life event, I'm I just feel with what's happened in the last couple of years, I just feel grateful to wake up every day to have the opportunity to play music with my friends, to play with my kids and all that, because you know, I know people that that don't get to do that, and it's like it changes your entire perspective on life.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I think we've all been in those band situations.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: Those of us that are musicians, I mean, have all been in those band situations where you feel like you're walking on eggshells, and and something that I've learned in the later part of my life is if you can walk into a room and can't identify who the asshole is, you're probably the asshole.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, definitely.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, me too, me too.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's that lead singer disease that we all got.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but you talked about two of the biggest shows you ever played in the last year.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: Now, you're a one-man army promoting, promoting, promoting.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about the connect the dots philosophy that kind of goes with that.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, did those shows kind of springboard you to the next step?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: And how did you do that?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: I honestly believe that it has to do with my body of work.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I think I I showcased that I was willing to work hard and I was willing to travel and I was willing to take shows on a flyer, um, even if they weren't the best shows for me to take.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: I traveled a lot.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: I I went out there um and I cut my teeth.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's that resonates with people quite a bit.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they see that they see your name out there, they see that you're taking it seriously, they see that the recordings that you're putting out are serious recordings.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: I've got a nice press kit, I have nice photos, I've saved my money, I've budgeted my money to put out a very professional looking product and sounding product, even if it takes me a little longer because I have to save to make that happen.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: I've done that, I've showed up, done what I said I was gonna do, been a good person, tried to do things with with a pure heart, um, and and tried to be very transparent with everybody that I've dealt with.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I finally I and I just kept putting out songs, kept putting out songs.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Never I could have been told no a million times.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Industry people have shut me down a million times.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: They shut me down before this single, they shut me down, but I've been trying and trying and trying.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing deters me.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: I I love to do it, I don't care what the outcome is.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm happy doing what I'm doing.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna keep pushing it.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: I will, it's my goal to push it as far as I can take it, where that is.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to see it.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I I honestly think that I think I did it through consistency because I've seen a lot of flash in the pan come since 2017.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of like, you know, say a band will pop up for a year, an act will pop up for a year or so, and then when it gets hard, they fall off.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I thrive in the hard moments.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: It makes me think I need to go back to the drawing board and fix this, I need to get better at this, I need to build my story more, I need to build this more.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: I I need to learn how to make a freaking website, I need to do whatever it might be.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I've just always tried to take the approach of like I'm I'm always learning and uh trying trying to stay humble as I possibly can.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I I honestly think people want to be around that.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: If you're easy to work with and you put on a good performance and you show people that you take it seriously, I think eventually your opportunity will come.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I had a mutual friend of ours on the show recently, Ryan Bostert of the band Throw the Fight and Decibel uh consulting and design.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the things Things that we discussed was that the future of the music industry is less in albums and more in singles.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the things you just touched on was putting forth quality versus quantity.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's something where the old music industry maybe got it wrong.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: Now I have had this debate a million times with people about what killed the music industry.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna come out, there's gonna be a faction of people that come out and say Limewire, Kazah, Napster, that's what killed the music industry.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: Where, from my perspective, it was gluttony that killed the music industry.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: You had a band like let's say Limp Biscuit come out, and then you sign 20 bands that sound like Limp Biscuit, you are focusing on the quantity versus the quality, and then you kind of take that and you exacerbate it over the past 20 years, you know.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it dilutes every it just dilutes everything because there's so much coming out.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I I was where I was getting at the long way was what are your perspectives on that?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: I I've taken I know I've put out an EP, um, but it was after I'd released three singles and it was only a five-song EP.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: And and I pushed the fourth single, and there was only one song that you hadn't heard on the EP.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: And strangely, that that's the only song on the EP that doesn't get listened to because it never got pushed.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so something went ding, okay.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: I need if I want people to listen to my music, the fact of the matter is I have to push it and make it stand out.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the only that's the only way you're gonna do it.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: There's I think if I think I've said it on a million podcasts, but I think there's 60,000 songs a day uploaded to Spotify or something like that.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: What's what are you gonna do to make yours stand out?
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I've tried to take that mentality with mine, and I've tried to learn on the back end of everything, and and I handle all the marketing and promotion mostly myself.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, my guitar player Jason helps me with the graphics and make stuff look awesome, and he's an amazing songwriter, and I've got amazing musicians in my band.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: But the single approach to me seems to be the way of the future, and I don't think the single people saying the Spotify algorithm favors people that consistently release music.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, if you have six singles that are ready to release, go for it.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't, put out two, right?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Put out two good ones instead of six ones, you know what I mean?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that I mean, that's been my philosophy.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I'm right or wrong because I think there's different ways for everybody, and that is something that we're fortunate with as musicians these days.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's easy to get your content out there, but the it's also hurts us because there's a lot of people out there muddying the water with shitty content, and you have to wade through it and get yours in front of that.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just gonna say it.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, independent artists, a lot of independent artists do a shit job of releasing music.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I do a shit job of promoting, they don't put enough into it.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: And as a guy that it's like, why should I have to battle that guy for opportunities?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: I clearly take this more seriously than that guy, and and it's not a chip on my shoulder, it's just I wake up, I live, sleep, breathe, eat this.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: You can't be bothered to even post that you have a new song out and you expect people, and then you go online and you complain about people not listening to it.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: I get the fuck out of my way.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: I get away get away from I don't even want to be around you, right?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: That type of situation.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I have a similar anecdote to the fact that like back in the day, playing shows, you know, and you're able to draw a crowd, right?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and I'm not talking about the friends and family crowd.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: Eventually the friends and family crowd fades, and then you're kind of left to stand on your own two feet and figure it the fuck out.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: So you kind of start referring to your music, and this is a specific anecdote.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: You refer to your music as a product, not because you're trying to cheapen the art form, but because it's a vessel to get people to the place where you want them the most.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: You want them to see you perform.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I know you remember slamomaha.com.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: I got called out on slamomaha.com because somebody asked about drawing and promotion, and I said, you know, you just have to have a solid product out.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry, this is my art form.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a product.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: I make this art for me.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: I had somebody really high and mighty give me this whole dissertation on it.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: And then months later, I get this DM on Facebook, dude.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: Why aren't you putting me on any shows?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: And it's kind of like, Well, I'm letting you be an artist, man.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: And and and and quite frankly, it to each their own.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: If you want, if you want to play and you just want to play for fun, and that's all it's about for you, I love it.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: I respect the shit out of it.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I totally am on board with that.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're not out there pushing like other, but don't expect to have the things that the people that are pushing get, if you're not out there pushing like they are, and doing the hard work and and creating a business.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care what anyone says, music creating music and promotion and doing all this shit is a business.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're not handling yours like a business, don't expect to compete with other businesses because in the real world you will be weeded out, and that's just the way it goes, whether you like it or not.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: I see so many people these days complaining about having to promote.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: I've got all this overload, I can't even create my art.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Suck it up and figure it out.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: This is the world you live in.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to create music and have anyone hear your shit, suck it up.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: Period.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: Get out there and do the work.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's all that's all there is.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: I work a 55-hour a week job.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: I got four kids.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: I still I still go running and I still find a way to do it.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have a, you know, if you're sitting home, you don't have a job, you're smoking pot all day, don't get on there crying that you don't have time, bro.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: I would kill to have your time.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: No shit.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: And and furthermore, don't don't take opportunities away from other people that are willing to do the hustle and do the work, because that's what you're doing.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's like if you're getting up on stage and you're not bringing anybody to your show just to satiate your ego, you're kind of flipping your finger in the face of art realistically.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: You and you're also not, and those people think they're good for this, you're not good for the scene because the people that are just randomly out that night that went to go see a show, if they see somebody up there that doesn't take it seriously, they're gonna go, why should we go out and see any more local acts if this is what we're gonna get?
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it ruins the it it it hurts the scene, you know what I mean?
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Dilutes it.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: So tying this all together, we talked about singles, we talked about the future of music being in singles, we talked about quality versus quantity, and we talked about this fantastic backing band that you have right now.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: You have just released a brand new single.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about that.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, the single that I released is Oceans.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: I released it this last Friday, so I think we're four or five days into the campaign for it.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we recorded it in November or December.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, my guitar player Jason Catlett and I wrote the song together after our friend had passed.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, after he was killed in a hit and run.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: But and I'd I'd been dealing with some grief too on other things that had happened with other accidents and other friends too.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then that one hit real close to home.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I wrote this, I wrote this song lyrically without any music.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: I just had a concept in my mind um about what I wanted to write about, because at that time I was in grief counseling and all this other stuff, trying to get myself out of the gutter.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I so I wrote that, and Jason said, you know, hey dude, you want to come over?
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: I wrote something.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: Said, yeah, cool.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: I wrote something too, and let's see what happens.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I went over there and it was the lyrics that I had, and the music is what he had written.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it's basically the what you hear of oceans now.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: We went through, we changed some arrangement a little bit.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: I changed a few little things lyrically to make it fit, but it was pretty much 30, 45 minutes working on it together, and we had it done.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: We sent it to the producer.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, Come, let's go record it.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and when we recorded it and the and the rest is history, we went to St.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Louis and shot a video.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I got the you know, I do spend money on the production.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: I I I save and I I make sure that I set aside a budget for it um to work with a good producer, to work with you know, Chris Dawson's, as far as I'm concerned, one of the best in hard rock.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, Mike Collagian's mastering, he's done a ton of huge projects.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: JT Ivan has a shot tons of videos for big acts.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like he and and Dawson was the one that told me he goes, You need to give this song a chance.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: He goes, save your money, go do a pro video.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: Give this one the push that you that that it deserves.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's what we did.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it took us a while to get here.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: It feels like the song's been out for three months, but it's only been out for four days because we've been hearing it and we've been working on it.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but so far, so good, man.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: We're five, four or five days in and the numbers are looking very encouraging, very strong.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it it seems to be really connecting with people, which is the most important thing to me, you know, if I if someone hears it and feels a little less alone or it helps them, you know, process their grief or whatever it is.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I've heard that it is doing that for people.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because it's is a heartbreaking song.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a very dark song.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's not any rainbows and sunshine.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's we all are in this life and we all experience loss and we all have to find our way through it, and and that's kind of what it kind of what it's about.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it people seem to really be digging it, man.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: We seem to be getting a really good response.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm really stoked about it.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: I've been promoting it hard, and we, the band's been promoting it hard, and we we couldn't be couldn't be more excited, man.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: We're ready to get out there and play some shows.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome, man.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: So if you were to describe the song to somebody that hasn't heard it before, what kind of flavors or what kind of elements can they find in it or compare and contrast to?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: We get a lot of comparison to like the Alice and Chains.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of grunge influence.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'm a I'm a huge grunge guy.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, that's the era that we grew up in.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, all the people in my band are from that same era as well.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: So we have similar influences.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it we didn't try, we just got together and played, and that's what came out that you know, and it's been yeah, I I mean, I would definitely say like hard rock, modern rock, grunge, kind of it's almost like a little bit of a throwback, you know.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's a little bit of a throwback to the to the grunge era.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, I'm proud of that.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care if people say this sounds gay.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't care.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm proud, I'm proud of it.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: As you should be.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: I've listened to it a few times myself.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: And um, am I mistaken?
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: But if you had radio dabbling with it a little bit, I actually got passed by radio.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: Radio told me that I don't have enough of a story and that my numbers are not high enough to be considered for it.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've had some independent radio stations and stuff like that, some internet stations and some, you know, some Spotify playlisting stuff has been happening, which is great.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly what I'm going.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm fine if I don't have some big radio campaign.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: I've never I've I've never had one.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: I've never never had anyone take a chance on me.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not delusional about it.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: I and I believe in my ability to promote and push.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm and my my goal is just to make people regret passing on me.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, rah, I could do this.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's been really doing really well.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: I that's that's very good that you brought that up.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: Despite the fact that radio hasn't picked it up, you have pointed out something that is very important that I don't think a lot of people realize is that we currently live in an algorithmic-driven society.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, in order to get people to engage with you, you have to figure out ways to manipulate the algorithms.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: Now, something that you and I, another thing that you and I have shared common interests with, is how we've been driving the TikTok algorithm to promote our creative endeavors, and just as us as individuals.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I know an exercise that's been working really well for me is doing random TikTok lives.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_02: I pick up about 20 new followers every time I do, and there's a correlation uh between picking up the new TikTok followers and plays with the podcast.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: Are you noticing similar effects with TikTok and your music?
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I believe that TikTok is really the only true viral platform now.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think Facebook and Instagram are selling you ads.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think Twitter's selling you ads.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, TikTok's, they're still selling you ads, but you have a chance to get your music and or your product, whatever it might be, your brand, in front of a lot of new eyes.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I've I've definitely noticed it.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: I've had people that I've never met before.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: I post a clip of a song, me lip-syncing it, doing something stupid, going, Hey, my new song's out.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: Holy shit, I'm excited.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: And someone will click on the sound, they'll go to the link in your profile and they'll go to your Spotify.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I've had people from TikTok tell me, dude, I went over to Spotify and saved this.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm listening to the rest of your catalog.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: How do I not have I not heard about your music before?
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Or I'll like I've become friends with a guy that's a fairly decent size influencer on there that we have similar music interests, and I do some promotional stuff for other bands, and our our paths cross that way.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and uh TikTok's awesome, dude.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: I I was a I was completely skeptical.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, like when my daughter was down there doing the dances with her friends, I'm like, this is the dumbest shit I've ever seen in my life.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: But once you get on there and you curate it to what your to what your interests are, there's something out there on there for everybody, and you can reach a very broad audience on TikTok.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: I I love TikTok.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, this is amazing because that's exactly how I landed on it too.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's because I was a total hater, man.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, Me too.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: I am I was so sick of watching all the girls in my house do the fucking TikTok dances, and I exactly, exactly that I was like, I was like, okay, I'm gonna get a TikTok just so I can monitor what the fuck they're putting out there.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: That was the only reason I got one, and then I started getting addicted to the for you page and the loops and the loops.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I'm wondering what this will do for the pod, and it exactly, exactly what you're talking about.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: I have had several influencers on the podcast as a result of me making those connections through TikTok, and I've developed friendships because of it, so I have changed from being a TikTok hater to being somebody that's like embrace the format, like love it or hate it, this is the future, yeah.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: And and I I like going on there and I see my friends make a video, and I like to go up there and gas up their post, man, like it, comment on it.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: If I do, I'll duet stuff sometimes.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I just do a funny three-second clip of something.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I'll talk for a minute.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: You never know what's really gonna work or resonate with people there, and we all have an idea of how to manipulate the algorithm, but like I it's a very pure form of content creation, and it's a very creative way, and it allows you to be yourself and be who you are and show people who you are and that and and get them involved in whatever it is you're doing.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's just a it's a really I never thought I'd be saying this, but it's a really, it's a really cool platform.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've been stoked to be on there, and I mean, I wish I had more time to make videos because I think if I made more videos, I'd get a lot more traction there.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like there's a barrier to entry a little bit with the time and how sweet a lot of these people will make their videos look.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I can say, damn, I can't compete with that.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have enough time.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Gary, Gary V has a big tirade that he goes on about it where you see he's like, if you're not making three videos a day, you're using it wrong.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, who the fuck has time to make three videos a day?
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like same dude.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: I go in too.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: I go in on a Sunday, I'm about to expose my secret sauce.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm it's a Sunday afternoon and I'm bored, I go to my little podcasting area, this area here, I will record about 10 one-minute clips, save them to my dropbox, and edit them throughout the week.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I have at least one piece of content every single day.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm trying to at least be consistent that way, but man, three videos a day, what the fuck?
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's and and three dope ass videos too, like well edited, fucking look great, special effects.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Jesus, this one took me a half hour and it's shitty.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: Dude, and and and the thing is, is I would like to figure out what kind of cameras some of these guys are using because I have tried using TikTok from my laptop with the the good camera, and like just doing it from my cell camera, I'm like, man, it's just not the same, it's not the same.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's not.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: I I I do all most of most of mine on my phone, and I just and I use the app and I do the thing, and I I've had some stuff hit six, seven thousand views.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you'd have to pay hundreds of dollars on Facebook to get those views, you know what I mean?
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a great platform.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's you just have to you have to play the game.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just like everything else.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: You can like it or hate it, but most people that I know in the music industry that are doing something I want to be doing are all on TikTok, right?
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: They're telling me, hey, dumbass, with your promotion skills, you should get on TikTok and start figuring it out.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, you're they were a hundred percent right.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I okay.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: Go back, go back and listen to my old episode with Ryan because I I had that guy's a marketing guru, he is, and I had to tell that guy, hey, dumbass, get on TikTok.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: He goes, Oh, is TikTok really good?
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, dude, get on TikTok.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: I had the same conversation with him.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: We were talking on the phone because I was actually gonna have him build a website for my for my music promotion business, and I've been getting just too busy to focus on that right now.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that thing kind of fell through.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: But uh he we were on a phone call and he we were going over the game plan for the website, and I we we somehow stumbled onto TikTok and he's like, What do you think?
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, dude, I'm telling you, I hate to tell you because you I know you have platform overload like everyone else.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, but it's it fucking works, dude.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: Get on there and do it.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, God damn it, I have to get a TikTok now, too.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you don't have to, but you should.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: You'd be better off if you did.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: So let's talk Dusty Grant before the release of Oceans, Dusty Grant after the release of oceans.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, as a former musician myself, I know that there's some sort of metaphorphosis that takes place internally after you finally drop that big product, that big piece that you're super excited about and super proud of.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: How has your mentality changed over the course of the last week?
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm super relieved because everything went off how it was supposed to, and the the release campaign is going really well, and all the pieces I put in place are working, so there is a form of relief there.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: But I am finding there's a lot of publicity opportunities coming, podcast appearances, interviews, and I'm like, holy shit, I'm about to get busy.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I want, that's good, I'll make time for it, whatever.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'm almost like it's so weird to compare it to MMA, but like I feel like I'm almost in training camp.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I we've got it out.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: Now we have fights booked, we have a couple shows coming.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: We're getting considered for some other big opportunities right now, yeah.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: Coincidentally with the drop of oceans.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'm like laying off the booze completely dieting, singing every morning, singing every evening, playing guitar every day.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: We're rehearsing four to six hours a week as a band because when we hit that stage, we want to knock people's heads off.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's where we're at.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: We're in complete terminator mode with promotion, push it and take this thing as far as it can go.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then that I mean, that's where I am before.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, before the release, I was only focused on the promotion.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I need to get this single, it needs to go off without a hitch.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'll play when I can, I'll practice when I can.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's like I will practice today before I create my content for promotion.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: I will practice, I will go for a run today.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: I will run six miles today before I do anything.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: And like I'm I am seriously like in training camp.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be in shape, I want to have my best performances ever.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: I want to showcase this song, I want to showcase what we as a band can do.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just I'm excited.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're gonna shock people when we get out there and play.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't agree more.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I think the most exciting thing anytime a new release comes out is that anticipation knot that gets planted in your stomach where you know something bigger is just around the corner, but you can't quite put your finger on it.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you don't know how they're gonna react.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_01: You could drop it and it could be a complete turd, and there's that fear where you're just like, oh my god, I have so much invested in this physically, emotionally, financially, everything.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: And it's always a timing game, it's always making sure that you execute your next show at the right time, you execute your next piece of content at the right time, and you make sure that you are in the right place at the right time.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: And Dusty Grant, you are at the right place at the right time.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm on the caught on the mic podcast, baby.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: The best place to be.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, man.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: So tell my listeners where they can find you online and where they can find oceans.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, they can find oceans on any streaming platform.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: You can find me, just search up Dusty Grant.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's easy to find me.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the first one that'll come up on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok at Dusty Grant57.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: You can find me on my website, www.dustygrant.com.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: I make it super easy to find me.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: I am not a hard guy to find at all.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, just search it up and you will find me.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: Dude, I'm glad we finally got to make this happen.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I think we need to make this happen again sooner here in the near future, so we can kind of talk about other things like MMA, dad life, and everything else that we absolutely love.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm down, man.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've watched the fights religiously.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: I love I love the training.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: I love I love being a parent.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: I love all that stuff.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm happy to come on, dude.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: I the way we have a lot in common, so we could definitely do many different episodes.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm ready for you whenever you want.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_02: All right, brother.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's been a pleasure.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: The world's a better place with you in it, my friend.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: You too, sir.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think it goes without saying every time I record an episode of the podcast, how much of a treat it is to reconnect with old friends and form new bonds.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_02: This probably will not be the last time you hear Dusty on the show.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_02: I guarantee there's going to be more appearances in the future.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_02: Find him online at www.dustygrant.com and look for his latest single potions on all of your favorite screens.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_02: And while you're cruising around, make sure you hit up www.cotonthemic.com to check out what I have going on.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_02: Make sure you give me a like and follow on all forms of social media.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: Your first rate rave about TikTok.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: Man, I'm on that thing on late.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: Get me up to Instagram or wherever.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_02: You cruised your social.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you guys for being here.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_02: This was a great comeback episode.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's been it.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: On the mic with Michael Clark.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Michael Clark.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_02: Until next time.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.