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Heart-Led Advantage with Justin Ricklefs · The Heart-Led Business Show

• 0:01
  Speaker: Welcome to The Heart-Led Business Show, where compassion meets commerce and leaders lead with love.
• 0:09
  Speaker: Join your host, Tom Jackobs, as he delves into the insightful conversations with visionary business leaders who defy the status quo, putting humanity first and profit second.
• 0:20
  Speaker: From heartfelt strategies to inspiring stories, this podcast is your compass in the world of conscious capitalism.
• 0:29
  Speaker: So buckle up and let your heart guide your business journey.
• 0:36
  Tom Jackobs: Gather round for a heartwarming tale of entrepreneurial excellence.
• 0:41
  Tom Jackobs: Today we have Justin Ricklefs, Kansas City native, devoted husband and father of five.
• 0:46
  Tom Jackobs: He is the mastermind behind Guild Collective where clarity, connection, and creativity harmoniously collide.
• 0:54
  Tom Jackobs: We'll dive into Justin's journey of transforming brands and businesses with heart-led magic.
• 0:59
  Tom Jackobs: So, buckle up as we explore how he's not just growing companies, but cultivating caring communities.
• 1:05
  Tom Jackobs: On this episode of the Heart-Led Business Show.
• 1:08
  Tom Jackobs: Justin, welcome to the show.
• 1:09
  Tom Jackobs: I'm really excited for today's conversation and especially how you've been able to kinda build these communities and with heart and still making profit doing it.
• 1:19
  Tom Jackobs: So I'm really excited to dive into that today.
• 1:23
  Tom Jackobs: But of course, the first question I always like to ask is, what's your definition of a heart-led business?
• 1:30
  Justin Ricklefs: That's a great question, Tom.
• 1:31
  Justin Ricklefs: In its most simple form how I like to begin conversations like this,'cause I'm exploring it as well for myself at our business is using care as a competitive advantage.
• 1:43
  Justin Ricklefs: That's the most simple way I've tried to condense this thinking is, Hey, companies, cultures, corporations, we can use care as the competitive advantage.
• 1:53
  Justin Ricklefs: And of course, you can't care if you don't have heart.
• 1:57
  Justin Ricklefs: And yeah, does, do businesses have hearts?
• 1:59
  Justin Ricklefs: Do brands have hearts like I, I don't know.
• 2:01
  Justin Ricklefs: But if we can have care as our competitive advantage, that to me signals that the heart is incredibly important, and of course it is.
• 2:11
  Tom Jackobs: Oh yeah, of course.
• 2:12
  Tom Jackobs: Now, how do you define the care?
• 2:16
  Justin Ricklefs: So interesting timing.
• 2:18
  Justin Ricklefs: We, I just launched my first book into the wild and it's called Give A Damn.
• 2:22
  Tom Jackobs: Congrats.
• 2:24
  Justin Ricklefs: Thank you.
• 2:25
  Justin Ricklefs: It was quite the journey, which we can talk about if we want, but thank you.
• 2:29
  Justin Ricklefs: And the title's Give A Damn, the subtitle is the catalyst for Caring Companies, and the thesis was, it really was my own exploration, which we've said Give A Damn in our business legitimately, almost for a decade now.
• 2:44
  Justin Ricklefs: We're about almost 10 years old and we've said this phrase, Give A Damn.
• 2:48
  Justin Ricklefs: We put it on stickers and coffee mugs and t-shirts and hoodies, and we just, it's like this, it's become this thing that, that people know us for and that's wonderful.
• 2:59
  Justin Ricklefs: The phrase is compelling.
• 3:01
  Justin Ricklefs: It's catchy.
• 3:01
  Justin Ricklefs: It's got some, it's slightly provocative, right?
• 3:04
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 3:05
  Justin Ricklefs: And we didn't make it up.
• 3:06
  Justin Ricklefs: We're not the only ones who say it but, in our community, we've become like the give damn people.
• 3:11
  Justin Ricklefs: And underneath that, as I started to sit with the work was okay, it is a, it is messy.
• 3:19
  Justin Ricklefs: Humanity's messy.
• 3:20
  Justin Ricklefs: Business is messy.
• 3:20
  Justin Ricklefs: It's hard.
• 3:22
  Justin Ricklefs: There aren't perfect formulas to follow that perfectly predict success.
• 3:26
  Justin Ricklefs: It's not always up until the right.
• 3:28
  Justin Ricklefs: One of my fellow entrepreneurs said, he is not everybody's crushing it all the time.
• 3:32
  Tom Jackobs: Right.
• 3:33
  Justin Ricklefs: And so to get to the point of your question underneath that packaging of Give A Damn.
• 3:40
  Justin Ricklefs: The mantra of the mindset, the movement, what, however you wanna describe it, is our four really core Cs, the letter Cs, and for us that ladders back up to a caring company, and the four being curious, being compassionate, being clear as leaders, which that one's my most difficult, frankly.
• 4:04
  Justin Ricklefs: And I talk about that in the book.
• 4:06
  Justin Ricklefs: And then ultimately being consistent, like doing it again and again.
• 4:10
  Justin Ricklefs: When you screw up and you fall down and you make a mistake and you fumble it, you get back up and you try again at being curious.
• 4:16
  Justin Ricklefs: Clear and compassionate.
• 4:18
  Justin Ricklefs: And so is that like Webster's definition of care?
• 4:21
  Justin Ricklefs: Probably not, but it's ours and it's what form, bakes this, the actual analogy we use in the book is a fire, like a really curated, messy, organic thing that ultimately fire takes forever to get going.
• 4:34
  Justin Ricklefs: And then once it's going, it provides heat and it provides warmth and it does, give to others.
• 4:40
  Justin Ricklefs: But that is a very long-winded, meandering way to answer your question, but care to us is, care is part of it for sure, but it's built on these other pillars of those four Cs that ultimately, if we stay at it long enough, care can be the competitive advantage because then talent wants to come, be, stay, grow, invest.
• 5:02
  Justin Ricklefs: Clients are attracted to retain experience something great, right?
• 5:07
  Justin Ricklefs: It's, and again, it's not simple.
• 5:08
  Justin Ricklefs: It's not black and white.
• 5:09
  Justin Ricklefs: It's not either or, it's not super easy, but it's, that's the movement of the leader.
• 5:14
  Justin Ricklefs: And ultimately then the business is towards how do we develop, how do we prioritize care as our competitive advantage?
• 5:21
  Justin Ricklefs: Because we can all just tell a million stories about experiences we've had as employees, as leaders, or as clients when the thing didn't care much about us and it didn't feel great.
• 5:33
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 5:34
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah, exactly.
• 5:35
  Tom Jackobs: When you do have those caring moments from, another company, it stands out by far from every other experience.
• 5:44
  Tom Jackobs: And it's just wow, why doesn't everybody do this?
• 5:47
  Tom Jackobs: And I remember one, one time I was, taking a flight and it was on my birthday and I was just sitting at the gate and United, it was United Airlines and my name gets called up to the gate.
• 5:59
  Tom Jackobs: And I was like, oh, cool.
• 6:00
  Tom Jackobs: I get, I was like, that's weird.
• 6:02
  Tom Jackobs: I've already been upgraded.
• 6:03
  Tom Jackobs: Huh?
• 6:04
  Tom Jackobs: So I go up to the gate the lady said, oh, Mr.
• 6:06
  Tom Jackobs: Jackobs, we understand it's your birthday today.
• 6:09
  Tom Jackobs: I said, yeah, it is.
• 6:10
  Tom Jackobs: And she handed me a birthday card.
• 6:12
  Tom Jackobs: And then when I got on the flight, of course I'd been upgraded and the flight attendant comes over with a nice glass of champagne and it was like, yeah, happy birthday, Mr.
• 6:22
  Tom Jackobs: Jackobs.
• 6:23
  Tom Jackobs: Would you like some champagne?
• 6:23
  Tom Jackobs: I was like, it's eight o'clock in the morning.
• 6:25
  Tom Jackobs: Of course I would.
• 6:26
  Justin Ricklefs: A hundred percent.
• 6:28
  Tom Jackobs: That was care.
• 6:30
  Tom Jackobs: United Airlines is doing that.
• 6:32
  Tom Jackobs: I was like, maybe only for their platinum flyers, but still it makes you feel good.
• 6:37
  Justin Ricklefs: Yeah.
• 6:37
  Justin Ricklefs: Did the champagne cost something?
• 6:39
  Justin Ricklefs: Sure.
• 6:39
  Justin Ricklefs: Did the birthday card cost something?
• 6:41
  Justin Ricklefs: Sure.
• 6:42
  Justin Ricklefs: But they have, and that's what's fascinating, Tom.
• 6:45
  Justin Ricklefs: It's a perfect story'cause it's like, it's already in their system, their CRM, their billing info, like they already know it.
• 6:53
  Justin Ricklefs: 'cause you had to fill it out on the front end.
• 6:55
  Justin Ricklefs: Someone like United and certainly Southwest is, and other bigger companies like Chick-fil-A, like people are realizing, oh, this isn't just like this cute thing that maybe every once in a while would be nice to do, it's like, no, now Tom's talking about United on his podcast and he cares a great deal about, and he probably makes buying decisions now based on how he felt in that moment, on his birthday, waiting for his flight.
• 7:18
  Justin Ricklefs: It is a direct economic advantage to give champagne to Tom and upgrade him to first class on his birthday day.
• 7:25
  Tom Jackobs: That's right.
• 7:26
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah, exactly.
• 7:27
  Tom Jackobs: And the, the recognition, and I think more and more businesses, need to be doing just those little things.
• 7:33
  Tom Jackobs: And I think we overcomplicate it sometimes and the businesses and we're so focused on what do we need to do to grow our business that we're not thinking about the customer all the time and the care that we should be giving to them.
• 7:46
  Justin Ricklefs: For sure and I love telling Chick-fil-A stories'cause I've got a couple buddies here in Kansas City who are owner operators of Chick-fil-A's.
• 7:55
  Justin Ricklefs: And if you think about it, it's a pretty dangerous business model to staff your frontline worker with, as with 16 year olds.
• 8:04
  Justin Ricklefs: I have a 16-year-old and it's a dangerous proposition.
• 8:09
  Tom Jackobs: Yes.
• 8:10
  Justin Ricklefs: What's true though, not all the time, of course, but what's true about their brand is it can be 34 degrees in Kansas City, freezing, freaking cold.
• 8:21
  Justin Ricklefs: And you roll up, you get, pull the app out, you pull your apple payout, you order a$14 meal.
• 8:28
  Justin Ricklefs: And the child the teenager's standing in the elements.
• 8:33
  Justin Ricklefs: You're not talking to'em through a screen.
• 8:35
  Justin Ricklefs: They're in the drive-through line.
• 8:37
  Justin Ricklefs: And they got, you know, they're freezing cold.
• 8:39
  Justin Ricklefs: Their face is red.
• 8:40
  Justin Ricklefs: They got hoodies on, and all the gloves.
• 8:42
  Justin Ricklefs: And they got, they're juggling like the iPad and the tap thing.
• 8:46
  Justin Ricklefs: And almost every time you, it's a pleasant exchange.
• 8:52
  Justin Ricklefs: It's a delight.
• 8:54
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 8:54
  Justin Ricklefs: At the end you're like, thank you.
• 8:56
  Justin Ricklefs: And they say, my pleasure.
• 8:58
  Justin Ricklefs: And if they don't say My pleasure, you think they should instantly be fired?
• 9:01
  Justin Ricklefs: You're like, what are you doing here?
• 9:02
  Justin Ricklefs: Working here?
• 9:03
  Justin Ricklefs: You don't say My pleasure.
• 9:04
  Justin Ricklefs: And it's like that's right.
• 9:05
  Justin Ricklefs: That's care.
• 9:06
  Justin Ricklefs: And it's, and it would've, it honestly, it would've been cheaper from a staffing standpoint to just have the drive through big menu board, they like, there's a million other decisions they could have made, but they've prioritized that as competitive advantage.
• 9:21
  Justin Ricklefs: And oh, by the way, it's also more efficient.
• 9:23
  Justin Ricklefs: You also get more accuracy on the order.
• 9:24
  Justin Ricklefs: You get more frequency of return of visit, and they're crushing their competition in terms of like per restaurant revenue, and they're only open six days a week.
• 9:33
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 9:34
  Tom Jackobs: Four times.
• 9:34
  Tom Jackobs: What I understand or saw recently is four times the revenue.
• 9:39
  Tom Jackobs: The average is four times what a McDonald's would make, and they're doing it six days versus seven days.
• 9:45
  Justin Ricklefs: That's right.
• 9:45
  Tom Jackobs: Just unbelievable.
• 9:46
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 9:47
  Tom Jackobs: But it comes down to that care.
• 9:49
  Tom Jackobs: What a great case study too for a business that cares for people.
• 9:54
  Tom Jackobs: So sorry we didn't go through this sooner, but tell me a little bit about your business or tell the audience a little bit about your business and, and what makes it heart-led.
• 10:03
  Justin Ricklefs: Sure.
• 10:04
  Justin Ricklefs: Yeah.
• 10:04
  Justin Ricklefs: Nothing to be sorry about.
• 10:05
  Justin Ricklefs: It's, Guild Collective is a brand consultancy.
• 10:09
  Justin Ricklefs: So we're about 10 years old based in Kansas City, team of seven.
• 10:13
  Justin Ricklefs: So we're not a massive group in terms of numbers, but we are heart-led and in part it's because, it's really interesting you asked that'cause we're in our own, I'd say evolution as a business to be more declarative.
• 10:30
  Justin Ricklefs: This has always been true and it's always been in our essence, but we're being more declarative about building human first brands, especially in their lovely conversations, but there's lots of conversations about tech, right?
• 10:43
  Justin Ricklefs: AI and all this impact of that.
• 10:45
  Justin Ricklefs: And those are necessary and needed.
• 10:47
  Justin Ricklefs: They're not bad, but what's, and all these things we're talking about with United Southwest, Chick-fil-A, local restaurants, Wilber's concepts of unreasonable hospitality.
• 10:58
  Justin Ricklefs: The businesses that are just generating so much good and connectivity are doubling down on humanity.
• 11:06
  Justin Ricklefs: They're going all in and we use this little kind of provocative phrase of injecting humanity into your brand.
• 11:13
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 11:14
  Justin Ricklefs: The ones that, for us, we call that project the human First brand blueprint and and some people might say, is that a tagline or is that a marketing statement?
• 11:23
  Justin Ricklefs: It's this crystallized, distilled phrase that becomes the brand's heartbeat, and that's literally one of our deliverables.
• 11:32
  Justin Ricklefs: Like these workshops, we lead end up distilling into these two to forward phrases that are the brand heartbeat.
• 11:39
  Justin Ricklefs: And what we believe is that when that brand heartbeat is clear and compelling.
• 11:45
  Justin Ricklefs: It genuinely beats through the organization because if the inside of the heart isn't healthy, and we relate that to the inside of the culture and the organization.
• 11:56
  Justin Ricklefs: If the inside is not healthy, you can't advertise your way to a healthy business.
• 12:00
  Justin Ricklefs: You could maybe get it for a little bit and buy enough Google ads or billboards or whatever the like tactic is.
• 12:07
  Justin Ricklefs: But we've got companies that come to us and they think they have a tactic problem, oh, we didn't invest enough in TikTok.
• 12:13
  Justin Ricklefs: And it's no, no, your heart's not healthy
• 12:15
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 12:15
  Justin Ricklefs: As a brand.
• 12:16
  Justin Ricklefs: And once it is like that sucker beats really well and it pumps blood through the whole organization, and then those people begin to tell the story.
• 12:24
  Justin Ricklefs: Because they love working there or they love being there, or they love the culture and it's a, all that's a byproduct.
• 12:31
  Justin Ricklefs: That I can get super excited about that because I do think brands these days are distracted by these tactic conversations that aren't irrelevant.
• 12:41
  Justin Ricklefs: There is a place for, how does your business show up in AI search?
• 12:45
  Justin Ricklefs: A hundred percent.
• 12:46
  Justin Ricklefs: But there's this other meaningful opportunity and invitation really to diagnose how the brand's heart is and then build a plan.
• 12:56
  Justin Ricklefs: We call it the human first brand blueprint, to begin to beat that heart strong and clear so that the growth happens generatively not in this forced way.
• 13:08
  Justin Ricklefs: And so yeah, all that to say the heart of a brand is really important.
• 13:12
  Justin Ricklefs: And I think to be a, to take it one step further is it's the leader's work, certainly in our organization, not like the leader leadership is not a title, it's a mindset mentality, but it's the leadership team's work on all sides of the equation to do their own heart's work.
• 13:32
  Justin Ricklefs: Vulnerably my own struggle is it's hard to connect the head and heart for me.
• 13:37
  Justin Ricklefs: The head is just like the natural operating system.
• 13:39
  Justin Ricklefs: It's like here's the plan here's the logic, here's the vision, here's where we're going.
• 13:42
  Justin Ricklefs: And it's like, how are we gonna get there?
• 13:43
  Justin Ricklefs: What do you, how's it feel to get there?
• 13:44
  Justin Ricklefs: I'm like, ah, I don't know.
• 13:46
  Justin Ricklefs: That integration is really important.
• 13:48
  Justin Ricklefs: 'cause yes, there is a part of our buying process that's head-based.
• 13:52
  Justin Ricklefs: There's part of our buying process, gut based, but ultimately there's a huge part of our buying processes our career decisions that are from the heart.
• 14:01
  Justin Ricklefs: And I do think it's the leader's job to begin to integrate that and do the work required to understand their own feelings, their own heart, their own desires, their own delight, their own fears.
• 14:14
  Justin Ricklefs: And so anyhow, that's a very long answer to your question.
• 14:18
  Justin Ricklefs: It was a great question.
• 14:20
  Tom Jackobs: That was great.
• 14:21
  Tom Jackobs: And you know what, you were talking too about, you can buy your way into getting more clients, but if you're, you have a leaky bucket, they're going out the back door, then you're not really gaining anything.
• 14:33
  Tom Jackobs: You're just throwing more money at it versus really working on the heart and the inside of the heart, as you say.
• 14:41
  Tom Jackobs: And getting that straight so it doesn't leak blood all over the place.
• 14:45
  Justin Ricklefs: Yes.
• 14:45
  Justin Ricklefs: Yes.
• 14:46
  Justin Ricklefs: And to your point earlier, some of these ideas are really simple, we get so attached to chasing shiny new stuff, an example, and like its most small business application we work with this guy named Wade Roberts, who's a doctor of physical therapy, and he is freaking awesome.
• 15:05
  Justin Ricklefs: He's built this beautiful golf therapy per, rehab and performance business.
• 15:11
  Justin Ricklefs: And one of our, one of our brilliant marketing ideas, and we sat down, back down with him was, Hey, when your annual clients renew?
• 15:19
  Justin Ricklefs: They all play golf.
• 15:20
  Justin Ricklefs: They love golf.
• 15:21
  Justin Ricklefs: They love being part of clubs, memberships, exclusive stuff.
• 15:24
  Justin Ricklefs: Give them a really nice Travis Matthew quarter zip with your logo on it as a gift at the renewal of the deal.
• 15:33
  Justin Ricklefs: It's not that brilliant.
• 15:34
  Justin Ricklefs: Wade was like,'cause he is building a business, it's so hard.
• 15:37
  Justin Ricklefs: He's oh my gosh.
• 15:37
  Justin Ricklefs: It's, yeah.
• 15:38
  Justin Ricklefs: Like that touch point is so meaningful.
• 15:40
  Justin Ricklefs: And they've invested a year here.
• 15:41
  Justin Ricklefs: They've built friends, they've built community, they've gotten stronger.
• 15:44
  Justin Ricklefs: Their golf game has improved.
• 15:46
  Justin Ricklefs: And that would be awesome'cause they'd actually wear that.
• 15:48
  Justin Ricklefs: And then their friends at the country club would be like, you know what's Robert's PT?
• 15:52
  Justin Ricklefs: Why don't I have one of those?
• 15:53
  Justin Ricklefs: You can go to Robert's PT now and be a client.
• 15:55
  Justin Ricklefs: And so it's just these simple, yeah, again, caring human first movements in a business that we just need to sometimes, clap our hands and wake up and be like, oh, what would our client really love?
• 16:05
  Justin Ricklefs: What would delight them right now?
• 16:07
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 16:08
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 16:09
  Tom Jackobs: And so I'm sure there's a lot of business owners out there that are thinking, oh yeah, this is all fine and great, but I'm struggling just to make payroll on a monthly basis, let alone being heart-led.
• 16:21
  Tom Jackobs: What type of advice would you give somebody that's in that, I wanna be heart-led, I gotta pay the bills at the same time.
• 16:28
  Tom Jackobs: Like, how do you balance making a profit and still being heart-led?
• 16:32
  Justin Ricklefs: Yeah, I obviously, everybody's context is gonna be different for me.
• 16:40
  Justin Ricklefs: The BS belief I used to have that it was either or and it was this, Hey, you gotta crush it, check the humanity at the door, crush it, drive profit at the highest possible level, and f all the humanity part, or this like super soft coddly, codependent.
• 17:01
  Justin Ricklefs: You just have to be so nice.
• 17:03
  Justin Ricklefs: And there's a big distinction between nice and kind, and niceness sometimes is like really self-protective and not clear and kind can be really freaking clear.
• 17:17
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 17:17
  Justin Ricklefs: And still have a heart.
• 17:18
  Justin Ricklefs: And so I'm in process on all this and there was a period of my entrepreneurial life where I would prop up the, I'd call it care.
• 17:26
  Justin Ricklefs: It wasn't even really care, it was more.
• 17:28
  Justin Ricklefs: Please stay here and work here please.
• 17:30
  Justin Ricklefs: It was just this kind of soft, squishy, definitely more nice than kind and I've, I'm growing, I'm in process and I'm getting clearer and stronger on my, my, my belief of oh, no.
• 17:41
  Justin Ricklefs: True.
• 17:41
  Justin Ricklefs: At Kathy, the founder is, Chick-fil-A is right.
• 17:43
  Justin Ricklefs: Care and commerce can coexist.
• 17:45
  Justin Ricklefs: That's the rumor.
• 17:46
  Justin Ricklefs: One of the, his rumored kind of go-to phrases was care and commerce can coexist.
• 17:51
  Justin Ricklefs: And I was like no, that's it.
• 17:52
  Justin Ricklefs: That's the mission.
• 17:53
  Justin Ricklefs: The journey I want to be on is how do you accelerate care and accelerate growth from a healthy business profit perspective?
• 18:03
  Justin Ricklefs: We've learned this.
• 18:04
  Justin Ricklefs: Most of the time, the hard way when you aren't, when the business isn't generating enough margin and return, the leader is then afraid and fearful and scarce minded really hesitant and honestly not healthy.
• 18:17
  Justin Ricklefs: At least that was my kind of journey.
• 18:18
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 18:19
  Justin Ricklefs: And, but when you start to begin to get clear and you have the right team size, some of it's like you gotta, and this in the United Airlines sense with the United Airlines flight that you were on your birthday was going down.
• 18:31
  Justin Ricklefs: And all those oxygen masks popped out, you wouldn't grab that sucker and be like, Hey, random stranger, here's your oxygen.
• 18:38
  Justin Ricklefs: They tell you to put your oxygen mask on first.
• 18:42
  Justin Ricklefs: leaders have, especially the ones that like tend towards the nice scale, they're like out there just putting oxygen on clients and the community and their team and the me Meanwhile, they're their whole, they're like gasping for a big, deep breath.
• 18:56
  Justin Ricklefs: And I think once you put that on yyourself, you get clear enough in your heart, in your head connection to go, oh, what is the best thing for me.
• 19:04
  Justin Ricklefs: Not the greedy thing.
• 19:05
  Justin Ricklefs: What's the best, healthiest move for me as the leader?
• 19:09
  Justin Ricklefs: How do I then from that place, give clarity, consistency, curiosity, and compassion so that others can benefit too?
• 19:17
  Justin Ricklefs: I don't know if that's helpful from a metaphor standpoint, but I do think the, the tension's real.
• 19:23
  Justin Ricklefs: And it's too simple to think, it's a binary choice of, oh, it's gotta hammer profit, or you gotta be super kind or super nice.
• 19:30
  Justin Ricklefs: I think the, blend that we're all trying to find is no, how can care and commerce coexist so that we have these cultures that are healthy, strong, generative, and ultimately, just like a good campfire would, is a gathering place for people who want to come and be around it because it's putting off warmth, not causing a lot of damage.
• 19:53
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 19:53
  Tom Jackobs: And I like what you said, the distinction between care or of kindness and being nice.
• 19:59
  Tom Jackobs: Being nice versus being kind.
• 20:02
  Tom Jackobs: And I think some, sometimes, especially in sales conversations where, you know, you might be struggling and you're like, I'm not sure if I really wanna take on this client, but I need the money.
• 20:12
  Tom Jackobs: The kind thing to do would be to tell that client, look, I'm not gonna work with you.
• 20:17
  Tom Jackobs: And this,
• 20:18
  Justin Ricklefs: yes.
• 20:18
  Tom Jackobs: Let them go because at the end of the day, if it's not a fit, it's not a fit.
• 20:23
  Tom Jackobs: That to me takes a lot of courage for somebody, a business owner to say, you know what, I don't want that business because it's doesn't fit into my heart-led approach.
• 20:33
  Tom Jackobs: And let that, let it go.
• 20:35
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 20:36
  Justin Ricklefs: Yes.
• 20:36
  Justin Ricklefs: And I think, to get maybe a little woowoo with you, I think the heart is the, it is the, it's the source.
• 20:44
  Justin Ricklefs: It's the energetic field.
• 20:46
  Justin Ricklefs: It's the field of desire and longing and in that is also fear.
• 20:51
  Justin Ricklefs: And I think back to your practical point of if the leader's feeling that stuff and not naming it, everybody else experiences it anyway.
• 20:59
  Justin Ricklefs: Like they're, everybody's running around on eggshells and tiptoes because they're like, oh man, just a fearful mess.
• 21:06
  Justin Ricklefs: And he's out there like trying to hustle stuff.
• 21:08
  Justin Ricklefs: 'cause he's afraid like they, they pick that up.
• 21:10
  Justin Ricklefs: They feel it anyway.
• 21:12
  Justin Ricklefs: As oppose of going, whew.
• 21:14
  Justin Ricklefs: I think transparency buzzword that's been botched a lot of ways'cause it's not leader's job to overly transparent cause that's weird.
• 21:22
  Justin Ricklefs: But to name Hey, whew, we got our work cut out for us.
• 21:26
  Justin Ricklefs: Y'all I'm honestly afraid of what the next 90 days look like.
• 21:30
  Justin Ricklefs: What do you guys think we should do?
• 21:33
  Justin Ricklefs: Because it's like the closer I get to the heart of people building whatever size of businesses, it doesn't even matter.
• 21:40
  Justin Ricklefs: Nobody knows.
• 21:42
  Justin Ricklefs: Nobody has the perfect answer.
• 21:43
  Justin Ricklefs: Everybody's trying to figure it out.
• 21:45
  Justin Ricklefs: And so when the leader opens their hearts and says eh, I don't know what to do here, guys, what should we do?
• 21:50
  Justin Ricklefs: The team is like, here's an idea, here's an instinct.
• 21:53
  Justin Ricklefs: I appreciate you've being honest.
• 21:55
  Justin Ricklefs: I already knew the revenue was down.
• 21:56
  Justin Ricklefs: Let's make a damn plan and figure it out.
• 21:58
  Justin Ricklefs: It's a much more vulnerability in a, in an appropriate professional context is really freaking awesome.
• 22:05
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 22:05
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 22:07
  Tom Jackobs: I had a fitness center before I, am doing what I'm doing now, but I will love the employees there on the first and the 15th, they knew not to come see Tom because that was payroll day instead, especially on the first when payroll and rent were due.
• 22:21
  Tom Jackobs: He like, do not come see Tom.
• 22:24
  Justin Ricklefs: And like, how's it the first again, we are just here.
• 22:30
  Tom Jackobs: Rents do.
• 22:31
  Tom Jackobs: How am I gonna pay for everybody?
• 22:33
  Tom Jackobs: Once I figured out the margins and got the heart involved into that business, it got a lot better.
• 22:38
  Tom Jackobs: And then the stress goes away, which opens up, your pathway to, not scarce scarcity mindset.
• 22:47
  Justin Ricklefs: Yes.
• 22:48
  Tom Jackobs: That growth mindset.
• 22:48
  Justin Ricklefs: This one little quote that I'm, I might butcher a little bit, but this guy, I think his last name is Brennaman.
• 22:54
  Justin Ricklefs: He was like the chairman of Home Depot.
• 22:56
  Justin Ricklefs: He's a Kansas guy.
• 22:57
  Justin Ricklefs: He has this quote in his leadership book, again, I might butcher it a little bit, but the concept was the leader's job is to absorb fear and exude hope.
• 23:08
  Justin Ricklefs: And again, I don't, that, I don't think that means don't tell the truth or don't be like, don't be real.
• 23:13
  Justin Ricklefs: It is yeah, the first and the 15th, it's eh.
• 23:17
  Justin Ricklefs: I think the belief of everybody should act like an owner.
• 23:19
  Justin Ricklefs: It's bs.
• 23:20
  Justin Ricklefs: Like no, they shouldn't.
• 23:21
  Justin Ricklefs: They don't know what it takes it, it's not their job to be afraid on the fifties.
• 23:26
  Justin Ricklefs: That's right.
• 23:27
  Justin Ricklefs: Yeah, that's right.
• 23:28
  Justin Ricklefs: And so I just like that concept of, yeah, the fifth because I felt the same stuff of oh my gosh, like how are we gonna make it?
• 23:33
  Justin Ricklefs: What's gonna happen?
• 23:34
  Justin Ricklefs: This and that.
• 23:35
  Tom Jackobs: Okay.
• 23:36
  Justin Ricklefs: Moments on the calendar are really tricky and I think a leader needs some outlet for that, whether it's a partner, spouse, a friend.
• 23:44
  Justin Ricklefs: I think it's really important to be in a community of other CEO types that are trying to figure this stuff out.
• 23:49
  Justin Ricklefs: 'cause you can go, oh man, I'm a mess.
• 23:51
  Justin Ricklefs: And they're like, yeah, me too.
• 23:52
  Justin Ricklefs: Here's what I did when I hit that spot in the journey.
• 23:55
  Justin Ricklefs: It was just so helpful to be connected like that.
• 23:57
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah, it definitely is.
• 23:59
  Tom Jackobs: I'm lucky enough to be in a couple of those type of masterminds where we can share and.
• 24:04
  Justin Ricklefs: yes.
• 24:05
  Tom Jackobs: understand what's going on and do some deeper work, which helps the business in so many different ways.
• 24:11
  Tom Jackobs: When you're in an island, especially now with more remote work, you're, doing things by yyourself.
• 24:17
  Tom Jackobs: You don't always have that outlet to, work with other people.
• 24:21
  Tom Jackobs: Yeah.
• 24:21
  Justin Ricklefs: yes.
• 24:22
  Tom Jackobs: That's awesome.
• 24:23
  Tom Jackobs: Justin, tell us how can people learn more about you and I know you have a book coming out as well, how can we learn about you and potentially work with you?
• 24:32
  Justin Ricklefs: Yeah.
• 24:33
  Justin Ricklefs: No, I appreciate it.
• 24:33
  Justin Ricklefs: It's a joy to be with you and have these conversations.
• 24:36
  Justin Ricklefs: Tom, I, yeah, practically we, I write on LinkedIn four or five times a week.
• 24:41
  Justin Ricklefs: Just whatever's kind of top of consciousness there.
• 24:44
  Justin Ricklefs: So you just search my name in LinkedIn.
• 24:46
  Justin Ricklefs: Would love to get connected there.
• 24:48
  Justin Ricklefs: I think that's a cool place where people that are sharing heart-led stories.
• 24:53
  Justin Ricklefs: Building little communities of cool conversations.
• 24:56
  Justin Ricklefs: And then, yeah, on Amazon you could just search, Give A Damn, and there's a big, bright yellow, I've got a copy of it right here, but big, bright yellow.
• 25:03
  Justin Ricklefs: This is the author's copy.
• 25:04
  Justin Ricklefs: It has this not for resale ugly banner, but yeah, big yellow, book and a bright orange flame from a match, which is a story y'all have to read about in the book.
• 25:14
  Justin Ricklefs: So yeah, those two ways are probably the most practical.
• 25:16
  Justin Ricklefs: But yeah, I appreciate the ask.
• 25:18
  Tom Jackobs: Awesome.
• 25:18
  Tom Jackobs: Justin, thank you so much for being on the show today and sharing your wisdom with the audience.
• 25:23
  Tom Jackobs: Any last words of advice that you'd like to give?
• 25:26
  Justin Ricklefs: I don't know about advice, but what I would say is, we all need more conversations like this about how we can build care as a competitive advantage.
• 25:36
  Justin Ricklefs: I think that when we start telling those stories of the United Airlines and the Chick-fil-A's and the Roberts PTs, like corporations get better and therefore it has a huge impact on community, on family life, on income levels on.
• 25:49
  Justin Ricklefs: Quality of life on job satisfaction, like work shouldn't suck.
• 25:54
  Justin Ricklefs: This movement towards, hey, how do we, how do we build and, and go to places that are heart-led?
• 25:59
  Justin Ricklefs: So I salute you for the work you're doing to generate conversations like this, Tom.
• 26:04
  Tom Jackobs: Awesome.
• 26:04
  Tom Jackobs: Thank you again for being on the show.
• 26:06
  Tom Jackobs: We really do appreciate you.
• 26:07
  Justin Ricklefs: Absolutely.
• 26:08
  Justin Ricklefs: Thanks for having me, Tom.
• 26:09
  Tom Jackobs: Absolutely.
• 26:10
  Tom Jackobs: Great, and thank you listeners for tuning into the show today.
• 26:13
  Tom Jackobs: We really do appreciate you as well, so make sure you're checking out everything that Justin is doing.
• 26:18
  Tom Jackobs: We're gonna include all that down into the show notes, so you can just click there, go to his LinkedIn profile and go check out the book on Amazon as well.
• 26:28
  Tom Jackobs: And while you're down there clicking around in the show notes, there might be a little button there to give a show a rating and review.
• 26:34
  Tom Jackobs: So if you could do that for us, I'd appreciate it.
• 26:37
  Tom Jackobs: Just help spread the word about the Heart-Led Business Show and helps those that are wanting to be heart-led and make a profit feel good about getting some advice and, help them out along that journey.
• 26:49
  Tom Jackobs: So, until next time, lead with your heart.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to The Heart-Led Business Show, hosted by Tom Jackobs.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: Join us next time for another inspiring journey into the heart of business.