Latest / The Paul Barron Crypto Show / Institutional Crypto FOMO Coming🚀Mark Yusko INTERVIEW

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Institutional Crypto FOMO Coming🚀Mark Yusko INTERVIEW · The Paul Barron Crypto Show

0:07
Speaker 1: Let's talk about everything that's happening with a potential strategic
0:10
Speaker 1: bitcoin reserve, along with other assets that'll break down today
0:13
Speaker 1: we've got a special guests you'll like it. My name
0:15
Speaker 1: is Paul Bara. Welcome back in the tech path. I
0:17
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0:19
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0:43
Speaker 1: Of course, we've had mister mark Us go on our
0:46
Speaker 1: show many times, so we want to welcome home back
0:48
Speaker 1: in He of course, is a CEO of at Morgan
0:51
Speaker 1: Creek Capital.
0:51
Speaker 3: How are you Mark doing great? Doing great? You know
0:54
Speaker 3: we were talking before we went on air that it's
0:56
Speaker 3: too late to say happy New Year, but we haven't
0:58
Speaker 3: seen each other this year, so so happy to welcome in.
1:01
Speaker 3: Buddy has begun, Anuary is almost over. It's been fast, man.
1:08
Speaker 1: This has been an absolute tear of news cycles obviously
1:13
Speaker 1: since Trump has taken office and we are seeing all
1:16
Speaker 1: sorts of things coming from the economic front that he
1:20
Speaker 1: is positioning on, especially around tech and crypto. What is
1:23
Speaker 1: your thought right now of the possibility of actually getting
1:27
Speaker 1: an executive order that will give us a strategic reserve,
1:31
Speaker 1: whether that is with bitcoin, XRP, American tokens. What's your position?
1:36
Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, you know I've talked a lot about this lately,
1:39
Speaker 3: and in that you know, none of us really know
1:45
Speaker 3: whether he has that power through executive order to establish
1:52
Speaker 3: any sort of strategic reserve of any asset. So it appears,
1:59
Speaker 3: and again not an expert on this, but it appears
2:02
Speaker 3: that it has to come through Congress. There are specific
2:06
Speaker 3: bills in front of different groups, one led by Senator
2:13
Speaker 3: Lummis and another led by him remember the name of center,
2:16
Speaker 3: that are are moving toward trying to create this strategic
2:21
Speaker 3: bitcoin reserve. Now, those are specific to bitcoin, they have
2:26
Speaker 3: nothing to do with any other tokens. You know, there's
2:29
Speaker 3: been talk about Trump making US based crypto talking crypto currencies,
2:37
Speaker 3: not bigcoin, bitcoin, cryptocurrency, but let's differentiate cryptocurrencies that are
2:43
Speaker 3: US based, make gains on those tax free. And of
2:48
Speaker 3: course all the HIDERA and the XRP and the Cardano
2:51
Speaker 3: people were, Oh, that's going to be great, and it
2:56
Speaker 3: could be great, But why would he do executive order
3:01
Speaker 3: like that? Why would he? And again I don't even
3:03
Speaker 3: know if that's in his purview, but why would he
3:05
Speaker 3: push for that regulation? Well, if he and his family
3:11
Speaker 3: have suddenly started to acquire crypto assets, it's logical. Maybe
3:18
Speaker 3: not ethical or moral, but it's logical that then he
3:23
Speaker 3: would be in support of making those things more profitable.
3:29
Speaker 3: Is it true that the Cardino crowd, the XRP crowd leadership,
3:35
Speaker 3: meaning that the people who own most of those tokens,
3:37
Speaker 3: have been lobbying really hard on Washington, not just Trump
3:42
Speaker 3: but the previous administration to get favorable positions. You know,
3:49
Speaker 3: the XRP people want the banking system to use it
3:54
Speaker 3: as a base layer, like to replace Swift And yeah,
4:00
Speaker 3: is there a world where you could see enough you know,
4:05
Speaker 3: lobbying being done that that gets proposed by Sure, I
4:11
Speaker 3: could see that. I don't. I don't like it. Personally,
4:14
Speaker 3: because I don't think it's decentralized. I don't think it's
4:17
Speaker 3: the right answer. To me. Bitcoin is the base layer
4:21
Speaker 3: and then we build everything on top of that is
4:23
Speaker 3: a better solution. But again, long winded way of saying, yeah,
4:28
Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of things happening. I think
4:31
Speaker 3: very little will be done by executive order. It has
4:36
Speaker 3: to go through the proper channels. But that doesn't stop
4:39
Speaker 3: the speculation.
4:40
Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. Well okay, so Mark, let me ask
4:43
Speaker 1: you this. If we do have this American token or
4:47
Speaker 1: crypto platform that is established by the administration, and they
4:52
Speaker 1: were going to say, okay, yeah, we're gon we're gonna
4:54
Speaker 1: put some tax preferential treatment to crypto that is owned
4:59
Speaker 1: by crypto so American companies or Americans that own crypto
5:02
Speaker 1: American companies. Would that put you guys in a position
5:06
Speaker 1: where you would say, Okay, I'll buy some XRP because
5:09
Speaker 1: of that, just for the tax position.
5:11
Speaker 3: So historically, we as a firm have favored the larger,
5:17
Speaker 3: more established protocols. We own a lot of Bitcoin, We
5:21
Speaker 3: own a little tiny bit of Etheroeum, we own a
5:24
Speaker 3: fair amount of Solano, although we sold most of that.
5:28
Speaker 3: Historically we don't own XRP. We don't owned Cardano, we
5:32
Speaker 3: don't own Hedera. That doesn't have any information content other
5:38
Speaker 3: than the fact that when we talk to founding groups,
5:43
Speaker 3: we have not met very many founding groups that are
5:46
Speaker 3: working on those platforms. If suddenly somebody were to say, yes,
5:51
Speaker 3: XRP is going to replace Swift, and Bank of America
5:55
Speaker 3: is going to use it, and JP Morgan's going to
5:57
Speaker 3: use it. If and that's capital I capital f If
6:02
Speaker 3: If I can see a way that some of the
6:06
Speaker 3: revenue that would be saved by using a better, faster,
6:11
Speaker 3: cheaper solution could accrue to token holders, then I want
6:15
Speaker 3: to own that.
6:16
Speaker 2: Yeah.
6:16
Speaker 3: The problem most of these utility tokens is, you know, Paul,
6:20
Speaker 3: is they don't get any of the cash flows, right.
6:23
Speaker 3: The whole yeah, was all about speculation without equity ownership
6:30
Speaker 3: acclaim on cash flows or debt. I'm an old fashioned
6:34
Speaker 3: investment guy. I like to own cash flows. I like
6:37
Speaker 3: to own things that accrue value. If we have other
6:44
Speaker 3: token networks that become usable on a global scale, and
6:50
Speaker 3: somehow the cash flow accrues to token holders, yeah, then
6:53
Speaker 3: I would own them.
6:54
Speaker 1: Yeah you got to jump in all right, Well then
6:56
Speaker 1: what do you make of this? Right here, this is
6:58
Speaker 1: uh Donald Trump to eminently signed executive orders. But they're
7:02
Speaker 1: talking about this around allowing banks to trade crypto. This
7:05
Speaker 1: is coming from Jeremy a layer over at Circle. This
7:08
Speaker 1: would change the dynamic quickly. So if banks are allowed
7:12
Speaker 1: to trade crypto or have the capacity to go into crypto,
7:16
Speaker 1: there are going to be a handful of tokens, most
7:18
Speaker 1: likely bitcoin, ethereum, XRP, some of those top tokens out
7:23
Speaker 1: there would be potential. We're hearing rumors now, I should
7:27
Speaker 1: say rumors. Now, reality is that you know, even B
7:30
Speaker 1: of A are looking at utilizing Ripple, you know, in
7:33
Speaker 1: their infrastructure. Would that change your position on some of
7:37
Speaker 1: these top cryptos starting to flow in the market. That
7:40
Speaker 1: would maybe equate the level of investment of how people
7:44
Speaker 1: have looked at bitcoin before for sure.
7:47
Speaker 3: Right, and so there's no question that any change in
7:52
Speaker 3: the rules, whether it's accounting rules which would allow banks
7:57
Speaker 3: to hold these assets that under earn accounting laws, if
8:01
Speaker 3: a bank owns this asset, it hurts their capital base.
8:05
Speaker 3: And that's true of risk assets. That's why they don't
8:08
Speaker 3: do a lot of private investments or venture capital because
8:11
Speaker 3: there are accounting rules that you know, marke the market
8:13
Speaker 3: rules that so if they change those rules or or
8:18
Speaker 3: make certain assets acceptable as depository investments like cash or other,
8:26
Speaker 3: then then clearly that would change the supply and demand. Now, again,
8:31
Speaker 3: if if we are trading an asset, if banks are
8:36
Speaker 3: simply trading, that is really no different than coinbase or
8:41
Speaker 3: Kraken or Gemi trading. It's just a transaction business and
8:45
Speaker 3: you're taking a spread. So what would profit be made? Sure,
8:50
Speaker 3: and with the value of a bank go up if
8:51
Speaker 3: they could, you know, are the spread on crypto? Sure?
8:56
Speaker 3: One of the challenges of all of this is who's
9:01
Speaker 3: gonna make the rules, Who's going to decide which of
9:06
Speaker 3: these proposals we follow. Is it going to be like
9:09
Speaker 3: the Battle Days where he or she who pays the
9:13
Speaker 3: most to lobbyists gets what they want versus, Hey, let's
9:17
Speaker 3: evaluate all the technologies. Let's look at the world like
9:21
Speaker 3: a business. And so if we actually did that with
9:25
Speaker 3: evaluating the technology of web three and blockchains, and we
9:31
Speaker 3: integrated that into the financial services system rather than a
9:36
Speaker 3: pay to play, right, that would be great.
9:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and I think you hit on a lot
9:42
Speaker 1: of scenarios that are playing out right now. It's early
9:44
Speaker 1: in Trump's administration, so it's likely that we're going to
9:47
Speaker 1: see some.
9:47
Speaker 2: Pretty big activities.
9:49
Speaker 1: However, you mentioned a little bit about just how ETFs
9:52
Speaker 1: have been working. You look at Blackrock, this is just
9:55
Speaker 1: a quick framework for them. They just bought six hundred
9:58
Speaker 1: million of bitcoin. This is their largest acquisition this year,
10:01
Speaker 1: even though it's short into it. But I want to
10:03
Speaker 1: play a clip for you because this is Larry Thing
10:05
Speaker 1: talking about tokenization, and then I want to get your
10:07
Speaker 1: opinion on that.
10:07
Speaker 2: Take a look.
10:09
Speaker 4: You know, as a huge believer of crypto and blockchain
10:13
Speaker 4: and tokenization, I mean I want the SEC to rapidly
10:18
Speaker 4: approve the tokenization of bonds and stocks. That will simplify things,
10:23
Speaker 4: make things easier, some of the tax on black Blackwrock
10:26
Speaker 4: would never have to vote on a proxy vote anymore
10:28
Speaker 4: because every however a record would be notified through a
10:31
Speaker 4: tokenization of equities, and it would save more money for
10:36
Speaker 4: more people. It would bring down the cost of ownership
10:38
Speaker 4: with stock and bonds. So those are the type of
10:41
Speaker 4: financial reforms we need.
10:44
Speaker 1: So that would be a big shift mark right there.
10:47
Speaker 1: This is Jacob Camphill. He says it's about creating X
10:50
Speaker 1: for y in an environment, so I can trade my
10:53
Speaker 1: apple stock for some of your real estate complex, or
10:56
Speaker 1: for some of Taylor Swift's music rights. All generate different
10:59
Speaker 1: kinds of yields. This is a new paradigm, you know,
11:02
Speaker 1: for how financial instruments could work. So I think we
11:06
Speaker 1: are nearing and it's good to see that Larry Fink
11:10
Speaker 1: is understanding this where that's good or bad.
11:12
Speaker 2: But it's the.
11:13
Speaker 3: Fact that I'm chuckling because I've said, you know, let's
11:21
Speaker 3: tokenize the world since twenty eighteen. I've been working on
11:25
Speaker 3: this actively as my career since then. And the idea
11:31
Speaker 3: that and I've said it, and he you know, he's
11:33
Speaker 3: not quoting me, but he's actually has probably seen the
11:36
Speaker 3: clip where I say, every stock, every bond, every currency,
11:39
Speaker 3: every commodity, every piece of real estate, every piece of art,
11:42
Speaker 3: every collectable car, every case of fine wine, every private business,
11:46
Speaker 3: all seven hundred trillion with a chief a trillion, all
11:50
Speaker 3: of it will eventually your token. And a token is
11:54
Speaker 3: not a little piece of gold, you know, they always
11:56
Speaker 3: make it a gold coin, like there's no golden there's
12:00
Speaker 3: no coins. A token isn't is a line item on
12:03
Speaker 3: a ledger. And why does that matter. We have leisures.
12:06
Speaker 3: We have databases. Well, no, we have centralized databases that
12:09
Speaker 3: are controlled by certain parties. In the decentralized world that
12:14
Speaker 3: is blockchains, we have immutable, permanent truth instead of trust.
12:21
Speaker 3: The trust industry, banking industry, brokerage, insurance, et cetera. Eight
12:26
Speaker 3: and forty eight years get run. But now it's on
12:30
Speaker 3: its way, and that's a good thing for the long term.
12:34
Speaker 3: As she said, seven trillion with a T seven trillion
12:39
Speaker 3: every year is extracted from you and me and everybody
12:43
Speaker 3: else in fees to the current banking system and brokerage
12:49
Speaker 3: system to ensure trust. Right, I have stock at UBS, right,
12:57
Speaker 3: I have a family harmony account with my brother in law. Today,
13:01
Speaker 3: there are paper stock certificates in a file cabinet in Dallas,
13:05
Speaker 3: Texas at DTCC, and they're in the name of UBS.
13:10
Speaker 3: They're not in the name of Mark Usco. And I
13:12
Speaker 3: have to asked permission to UBS to sell those stock
13:16
Speaker 3: certificates to you, and they take them out of the
13:19
Speaker 3: file drawer and move them to your file drawer. At
13:23
Speaker 3: Merrill Lynch, not in your name, but in Merrill Lynch's name.
13:27
Speaker 3: At four hundred year old technology, there are four different fees.
13:32
Speaker 3: Instead with a tokenized security, I can send it to
13:37
Speaker 3: you with a couple of clicks on my phone and
13:39
Speaker 3: it's done. And so Larry's one hundred percent right. And
13:43
Speaker 3: I'm in violent agreement because I've said it before that
13:47
Speaker 3: this is coming and the banks, the brokers are are
13:51
Speaker 3: going to fight it. Why because that seven trillion that
13:57
Speaker 3: I want us to reclaim happens to be their revenue.
14:02
Speaker 3: Trad FI cee FI centralized DeFi. Ultimately everything's DeFi. The
14:09
Speaker 3: whole world is decentralized and tokenized.
14:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's not overnight.
14:14
Speaker 1: Well, I think this is a it's an era in
14:16
Speaker 1: which we've seen it in technology, and we've seen a
14:18
Speaker 1: lot of industries that have gone away because of technology,
14:22
Speaker 1: and I think the banks are really kind of in
14:24
Speaker 1: the same position. We're We're going to see a potential
14:27
Speaker 1: where banks slowly fade into a very you know, transparent
14:34
Speaker 1: role in society. And much like we've seen in the
14:37
Speaker 1: era of everything from you know, entertainment to travel to
14:41
Speaker 1: you name, it has been transplanted.
14:43
Speaker 2: So it's going to happen. It's just a matter of time.
14:45
Speaker 1: I want to get your opinion on this though, and
14:47
Speaker 1: that is the Trump token? Because this is this is
14:50
Speaker 1: a point of contention for a lot of people, both
14:53
Speaker 1: outside crypto and inside crypto. Many people outside crypto would say,
14:58
Speaker 1: huge cash grab. Trump is you know, just done? You
15:02
Speaker 1: know his Trumpian things that he does all the time.
15:05
Speaker 1: Let me play this clip and then get your opinion.
15:07
Speaker 2: Take a look you coin the other day.
15:10
Speaker 5: Do you intend to continue selling products that benefit yourself
15:13
Speaker 5: personally while you're president?
15:15
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if it benefited. I don't know
15:16
Speaker 2: where it is. I don't know much about it other
15:19
Speaker 2: than I launched it.
15:19
Speaker 3: I heard it was very successful.
15:21
Speaker 4: I haven't checked it.
15:22
Speaker 2: Where is it today?
15:24
Speaker 5: He made a lot of money started how much? There
15:28
Speaker 5: are several billion dollars It seems like the last several
15:31
Speaker 5: days several billion.
15:32
Speaker 3: That's peanuts for these guys.
15:39
Speaker 1: All right, So one point there. Now I'm going to
15:41
Speaker 1: go over to more of a culture of phenom, and
15:43
Speaker 1: this is Dave Portnoy.
15:45
Speaker 2: We'll play his clip. Let's go to that one.
15:48
Speaker 5: I keep going back and forth whether I should launch
15:51
Speaker 5: my own coin.
15:52
Speaker 3: I don't know how to do it. I'd have to
15:54
Speaker 3: find people really trustworthy.
15:57
Speaker 5: I'd only be doing it to make a ship ton
15:59
Speaker 5: of money for me, like to move me from a
16:01
Speaker 5: million to a billion.
16:02
Speaker 3: I know people would buy it. I don't want to
16:04
Speaker 3: go to jail and I don't want to people over.
16:09
Speaker 3: But but.
16:13
Speaker 5: If you say you're in it to make money and
16:16
Speaker 5: eventually you're gonna take your money out of it, is
16:18
Speaker 5: that sucking people over.
16:19
Speaker 1: But you see two different sides of the plate here.
16:22
Speaker 1: You got a major financial organization that is a digital
16:27
Speaker 1: product center now run by Eric Trump, that launched the
16:30
Speaker 1: Trump token. And you got guys that are you know,
16:32
Speaker 1: influencers like a Dave Portnoy, that say, hey, I could
16:35
Speaker 1: do this, just like Iggy Azelia, just like many others
16:38
Speaker 1: that have kind of gone in this direction. I mean,
16:40
Speaker 1: probably Ken Kardashian's probably going, wait, what happened here?
16:44
Speaker 2: You know two years ago I tried to do this
16:46
Speaker 2: and I got slapped down by the SEC.
16:48
Speaker 1: So with now all of this shift in the administration,
16:53
Speaker 1: do you think these meme coins will get more traction
16:57
Speaker 1: or less traction?
16:59
Speaker 3: Well, they'll there'll be more of them, But at the
17:04
Speaker 3: end of the day, there's only so much money. That
17:08
Speaker 3: amount of money is controlled by central banks. We have
17:11
Speaker 3: liquidity rising or falling, and there's only so much. And
17:15
Speaker 3: so we saw that with with the Trump token. Right
17:17
Speaker 3: when when the Trump token was out, it went up,
17:21
Speaker 3: and then when the Millennia token came out, some people
17:25
Speaker 3: sold some Trump and bought some Millennia And there's only
17:29
Speaker 3: so much money. So is the meme coin phenomenon a
17:33
Speaker 3: little bit of sports betting and and Las Vegas absolutely
17:41
Speaker 3: is a little bit of it. That you know, the
17:43
Speaker 3: American dream of buying a house and having your real
17:46
Speaker 3: estate appreciate kind of gone for a lot of young
17:48
Speaker 3: people because housing price is so expensive. Yeah, so they're like, hey,
17:53
Speaker 3: I can make generational wealth by speculator. Now, Donald Trump
17:59
Speaker 3: is is right in the sense that he ducked the
18:02
Speaker 3: question are you going to do more of these? In theory?
18:06
Speaker 3: In theory, according to the I think it's called the
18:08
Speaker 3: Emollien's clause, he shouldn't be able to do it now
18:12
Speaker 3: that he's been inaugurated. Before inauguration, here's right now, are
18:16
Speaker 3: there limitations on his direct family? I don't know the answer.
18:20
Speaker 3: How about people hired by his family? I don't know
18:23
Speaker 3: the answer. So did he make a lot of money,
18:28
Speaker 3: like personally when all the security details stayed at his resorts,
18:33
Speaker 3: when he would go golfing. Yes, of course that's been right.
18:38
Speaker 3: I don't know. But cort Andy says something else different,
18:41
Speaker 3: which is I could do this. I'm popular. Sure people
18:46
Speaker 3: know who Dave is. But just because I know who
18:48
Speaker 3: Dave is, I'm not buying Dave coin. I'm just not.
18:53
Speaker 3: And some people would would and the people who if
18:57
Speaker 3: he does, if he did it, and I love the
19:01
Speaker 3: dilemma he was having, which is the reason you can
19:06
Speaker 3: create this illusion, and I call it an illusion of wealth.
19:11
Speaker 3: Is if you do a what's called a free and
19:15
Speaker 3: fare launch, which means you distribute all the tokens equally
19:19
Speaker 3: to members of some community, then it really is only
19:25
Speaker 3: going to increase in value on normal supply and demand.
19:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the market conditions. For sure.
19:32
Speaker 3: One party owns the majority of the coins and a
19:36
Speaker 3: limited amount of float exists, that supply demand gets thrown
19:41
Speaker 3: out of whack, and then what happens is the big
19:44
Speaker 3: institution occasionally feeds the ducks. But just holding an asset
19:51
Speaker 3: that you own the majority of that's not illegal. So
19:58
Speaker 3: I think David be disappointed if he were to issue
20:01
Speaker 3: a coin, okay, because he wouldn't get as much.
20:04
Speaker 1: Uh, well, we'll find out because I'm sure it's gonna happen.
20:07
Speaker 1: I want to go to a more serious topic, and
20:10
Speaker 1: that is one of your favorite actually, and that is
20:12
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren's job has now been taken. You've got Senator
20:17
Speaker 1: Lumbus who is now going to be chairing the Senate
20:19
Speaker 1: Banking Committee on Digital Assets. So we got somebody that's
20:22
Speaker 1: positive that big deal.
20:24
Speaker 3: Hu's positive. I mean, it's it's so wildly positive that
20:29
Speaker 3: I almost can't stand it, just because you know, look,
20:34
Speaker 3: Ms Warren, I probably shouldn't say this, but bought and
20:38
Speaker 3: paid for by the big banks. I mean, you look,
20:42
Speaker 3: and it's just public knowledge. Right. You look at the
20:44
Speaker 3: donors to any senator. Right, it costs one hundred million
20:49
Speaker 3: dollars pall to become a Senate one hundred million dollars.
20:52
Speaker 3: So most people don't have one hundred million dollars. I mean,
20:56
Speaker 3: Meg Whitman tried with her own money. She didn't raise
20:58
Speaker 3: any money. She spent one hundred and three million. As
21:00
Speaker 3: I understand, it didn't win, but at least it was
21:03
Speaker 3: her money. Any other senator has to get the money
21:07
Speaker 3: from someplace, and therefore then they owe people stuff. And
21:12
Speaker 3: this Warren her biggest contributors are financial services. So she
21:16
Speaker 3: is obviously against this esoteric threat to financial services, which
21:23
Speaker 3: is what blockchain is. And so the fact that she's
21:26
Speaker 3: out and ms Lammas is in who has made her
21:30
Speaker 3: state a haven for development of digital asset infrastructure and
21:37
Speaker 3: she personally believes in bitcoin as the next base layer
21:41
Speaker 3: of money and as a proponent of the SBR, I
21:46
Speaker 3: think it's wildly positive. And does it mean we're immediately
21:51
Speaker 3: going to the moon and we're going to a million
21:53
Speaker 3: dollar bitcoin?
21:54
Speaker 5: Right?
21:55
Speaker 3: No? I mean no, but is it way better than
22:00
Speaker 3: what it was yesterday? You bet you for sure?
22:03
Speaker 1: Well, okay, so Mark, when you look at the current administration,
22:07
Speaker 1: a lot of the moves that are already being going
22:09
Speaker 1: going on, We've got David Sachson here as crypto ai
22:13
Speaker 1: ais are likelihood we're going to get some positive reinforcement
22:16
Speaker 1: from the administration. SEC head is changing out, We've got Mark, you, Ada,
22:20
Speaker 1: Hester Pierce leading all. I mean, this is all very bullish.
22:25
Speaker 1: When do you think, yeah, when do you think we're
22:28
Speaker 1: going to see the market really react to this, because
22:30
Speaker 1: it feels like the market has not fully reacted to
22:33
Speaker 1: what is going on right now.
22:34
Speaker 2: Oh no, it has for sure, you feel like.
22:37
Speaker 3: It's aster right, it reacted before. I mean, look, we.
22:41
Speaker 2: Were it right up to inauguration.
22:43
Speaker 3: Surecoin the night of the election. Okay, it's not sixty
22:48
Speaker 3: eight thousand dollars.
22:49
Speaker 2: Not a bad move, Yes, not a bad move.
22:52
Speaker 3: That's a big move since November and so, and there
22:56
Speaker 3: are other I mean x rpiece up five times that much,
22:59
Speaker 3: jose coins up three times that much. So there have
23:01
Speaker 3: been massive moves in anticipation of all the good stuff.
23:08
Speaker 2: Sou Do you think the market is topped?
23:12
Speaker 3: No? No, No, I think I'm I'm persona on grata
23:17
Speaker 3: on this. I believe the four year cycle still exists.
23:21
Speaker 3: I believe twenty twenty five, most of the year will
23:24
Speaker 3: be pretty positive and then we'll have another crypto winner.
23:28
Speaker 3: And people say, no, no, the four year cycle has
23:30
Speaker 3: been abolished. Fine, people are entitled to opinion. I don't
23:34
Speaker 3: believe that. I think humans are going to human I
23:37
Speaker 3: think we'll push prices too high. So I don't think
23:40
Speaker 3: we've topped. I think my own personal opinion is one
23:44
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty to one hundred and eighty k bitcoin,
23:47
Speaker 3: and you can do the math or anything else, is
23:50
Speaker 3: the top of this cycle. And that would be about
23:53
Speaker 3: one and a half times fair value, And he said,
23:56
Speaker 3: but Mark, normally we get two times fair value. Sure,
24:00
Speaker 3: but that's because in a pre FTX world we had
24:04
Speaker 3: lots and lots of leverage, right, I think the leverage
24:07
Speaker 3: is lower this time. If you think about fair value
24:11
Speaker 3: follows that Metcalf's law parabola, right, right. But the price
24:17
Speaker 3: goes like this, It doesn't follow the curve. It goes
24:20
Speaker 3: above the curve. It goes below the curve curve. Right now,
24:26
Speaker 3: we're a little bit above fair value is right around
24:29
Speaker 3: ninety five ninety eight, and we're at one hundred and
24:32
Speaker 3: four hundred and five, so we're a little bit above.
24:36
Speaker 3: Do I think we're going to get with fair value
24:38
Speaker 3: getting into the low hundreds by midyear? Do I think
24:42
Speaker 3: we'll get to one fifty one seventy, Yeah, and then
24:47
Speaker 3: we'll have another cycle. But I could be wrong, But
24:50
Speaker 3: that's just my view.
24:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
24:52
Speaker 1: Well, and I think the key here is is that
24:55
Speaker 1: the good thing is is everything's up. I think in
24:57
Speaker 1: the sense of just where we're going to see the
24:59
Speaker 1: administration move and obviously the technology, and also just the
25:03
Speaker 1: framework because the United States has been such anti crypto
25:07
Speaker 1: for so long that finally that door is open. I
25:11
Speaker 1: think the opportunity here to grow innovation in the United
25:15
Speaker 1: States may even be bigger now, even more so than
25:19
Speaker 1: the crypto market itself. Is just the amount of companies
25:21
Speaker 1: that are going to be in really kind of importing
25:24
Speaker 1: jobs and potential opportunity here in blockchain businesses. So good
25:29
Speaker 1: for what you guys are going to be doing out there.
25:31
Speaker 3: We think we have always been one of the leaders
25:34
Speaker 3: in the world in innovation. Do I think everything the
25:40
Speaker 3: current administration is going to do is going to be great?
25:42
Speaker 5: Nope?
25:42
Speaker 3: Do I think they'll make mistakes? Sure? Do I think
25:45
Speaker 3: we have to watch out for self dealing and things
25:51
Speaker 3: like that? Yeah? Do I think to be careful about
25:59
Speaker 3: you here for what you ask for it because you
26:01
Speaker 3: might get it. So far, it appears a lot of
26:06
Speaker 3: what's happening is in the current administration is where they're
26:10
Speaker 3: bringing people in like David Sachs and others who are
26:15
Speaker 3: really talented, who are really focused on progress as opposed
26:24
Speaker 3: to politics.
26:26
Speaker 2: And bureaucray right. Yeah, it's definitely a different class for sure.
26:29
Speaker 2: I would agree with you.
26:31
Speaker 1: Hey, Mark, it has been great having you on the
26:33
Speaker 1: show today. Thank you so much. For stopping in. I'd
26:36
Speaker 1: love to pick your brain on this stuff, so it
26:38
Speaker 1: was great having you.
26:39
Speaker 2: Thanks again, we always enjoy it.
26:41
Speaker 3: Thank you for the opportunity, and then we'll see you
26:43
Speaker 3: again soon.
26:44
Speaker 2: All right, thanks lot.
26:45
Speaker 1: Are you guys are If you're not in the Diamond
26:47
Speaker 1: circle right now, get in. It's a real great place
26:49
Speaker 1: to get additional content from us, more research, also cool
26:53
Speaker 1: stuff that you can do even in our telegram group,
26:55
Speaker 1: so we leave a link down below. Check it out,
26:57
Speaker 1: and of course hit me out there on x at
26:59
Speaker 1: Paul Baron at your next time right here on Techpath
27:08
Speaker 3: M