Latest / Stream of Consciousness with Dan: Stories from the Midwest / Stream of Consciousness #66 - Justin Warner

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Stream of Consciousness #66 - Justin Warner · Stream of Consciousness with Dan: Stories from the Midwest

• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: All right, everyone, we are live with Stream of Consciousness with Dan.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Today I'm joined with someone who's carved out one of the most original voices in food.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Justin Warner.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know him maybe as the winner of the Next Food Network Star or Season 8, the mind behind the laws of cooking, the host of Marvel's Eat the Universe, and the chef bringing incredible ramen to South Dakota with Bukojo.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: So Justin, it's just such an honor to have you on the pod today.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: How are you doing?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing great, man.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: How are you?
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'd probably be better if I had a uh bowl of ramen in front of me.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I had one last night for dinner and I'm I'm feeling the positive effects today, you know.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh woke up and just broke down the door on the day and said, you know what?
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: You're mine.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's awesome.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: So uh before we get into everything you've built in the culinary world, I want to start at the beginning.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um you can talk about your childhood as much as you want, but I also want to emphasize if there is a moment food first clicked for you, if there is a dish or a memory in the kitchen that made you realize, you know, flavor was going to be your language.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, not not really.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing that I I can pinpoint uh from childhood.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: My mom will tell you the story that um we were at some fancy restaurant in uh DC when I was probably about three, because I was in a high chair, and uh one of my dad's colleagues was uh eating uh some sort of like calamari pasta, I assume, and I saw the little rings in it, and I saw him eating those rings, and um I have a vague memory of it.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I said, you know, something like, Why are you eating rings?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Well, it's it's calamari, it's squid.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't even know that I knew what calamari or squid was, but um I my mom will tell you that I summoned the waiter and asked for what he was having.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, I think I've always just kind of had a pretty adventurous palate.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not particularly um afraid of any food.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like food has never given me the willies in any way, shape, or form.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I also think I have like just from the beginning of life, um uh uh an abnormally healthy relationship with food where um it's easy for me to study because it's never my drug, if that makes sense.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so where some people I think are like, well, you know, if I worked, you know, I would eat everything all the time.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, well, I I don't.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then uh where I think flavor really clicked, there's probably a couple um moments.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: There's uh I worked at a place called Rococo in uh western Maryland in my hometown of Hagerstown, and we had a really talented chef there.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I'll never forget they uh had this leg of lamb that was braised, and they uh well it was a shank, actually, lamb shank.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: And uh they stuffed um the rosemary um into the the marrow bone there.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: And um I'll never forget that I don't know whether they gave me an extra or somebody um didn't eat it or what, but um I had never smelled anything like rosemary in my life, let alone it being like covered in lamb marrow, and then I had never had meat so tender as that that braised lamb shank.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And um I was like, who's been lying to me?
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like who's been holding holding back that like food could be this good, you know?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so then from there, you know, I I was still more about like check averages and getting tips as a busboy and that sort of thing.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then as a waiter, you know, I was kind of I moved to a different restaurant where the food wasn't as good, and then uh I finally moved to Colorado and I was working at a sushi bar, and I figured, you know, that I could you know make pretty good money there.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um but the chef there was um and it still is just an absolute sushi tactician, he's a genius.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um but he wasn't doing so great at like selling, upselling fish to you know cowboys in northern Colorado.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: And um right, yeah.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: We would work together to uh figure out the words that we were gonna use to describe the food.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so I created a a sushi scatter plot of on one axis it's fishy, the other is not fishy, and then the other axis is oily, not oily.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, salmon is pretty oily but not fishy, mackerel is very fishy and very oily, tuna is not too fishy and not too oily, halibut is not oily at all and not oily or not fishy at all.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so by making that chart for him, um, we could, you know, give like a point of reference um for even for our customers and for our staff.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then all of a sudden we had the sushi bar that could speak the language of fish.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: We like cracked this code, and people would come you know from miles to you know get these absurd, you know, Japanese delicacies.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was all due to the articulation.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it wasn't kind of like this or kind of like that.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, well, here's a scatter plot, and this is where it lives, you know.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you see any other fish you like in this area?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, if you see a fish you like, you should probably order from that area, you know, and then that was it.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's so freaking cool.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I'm a I'm I'm a big nerd myself.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like I see things through like equations and plots and charts and things like that.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: So that's so awesome.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but I I want to take a step back because something I care about a lot is uh getting kids into the kitchen early and giving them kind of you know that spark you had.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: So for parents or teachers, what's the best way to introduce uh kids to cooking in a way that's fun and empowering?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't know.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: The first cookbook I ever had, and I still have it, is called Salads and Dips.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: And um I think if you can get salads and dips in front of a kid before they realize that salads can potentially be yucky and that um, you know, crude is yucky or whatever you want to call it, you know, before media and other kids get to them, um, you know, showing a kid how to stir sour cream and and dill weed and garlic powder together, um, you know, to make a dip for carrots or celery or whatever, um, you know, it still feels like cooking.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: There's very little risk involved if things don't come out right.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: And honest to God, most children will eat sour cream by the spoonful.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's kind of like whatever you want to put in there in terms of like dry spices, you know, and and then you say, okay, this is a dip, you know, we've got carrots, we've got pretzels, we've got chips, whatever, you know.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that that honestly, the ease of access for that was like some of the first um, you know, I don't know.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: It was just it cooking never ever really seemed scary to me because they give you a recipe and the recipe tells you what to do.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this, of course, was like before um, you know, the entire internet thinking they can write recipes and that sort of thing.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, I would just say start extremely simple but with high reward.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: And sour cream-based dips are uh to a kid pretty darn weaponized.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: There really isn't anything better than a nice dip.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because, like you said, you can do chips, you can do pretzels, carrots, celery, and literally anything, and it just tastes amazing.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, chicken nuggets, you know, whatever.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Just rip it and rip it.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: No, well, that's great advice.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: So um you kind of talked a little about your earlier career.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I want to move into the Food Network Star segment now.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of what was that process like?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: You making, you know, your uh what's it called, your promo video or whatever that's called, and just kind of what inspired you to do that.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I was on a a show called 24 Hour Restaurant Battle, and um before Food Network Star, and the producers from that show, which was a one-off, um, asked me to submit for uh Food Network Star, and I was like, Are you kidding?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I know this show, I know who it made, you know, like I've absolutely so yeah, I was like, I determined I'm gonna jump through every hoop they ask, I'm gonna make the killerist like one-take audition that anybody's ever seen.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'm gonna, you know, be as memorable as I possibly can.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I already had my foot in the door.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: They ask me, right?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so the crazy thing that happened though is I had to do an in-person interview, and the night before my restaurant was raided because uh it was so popular, people thought it was a front.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I'm not kidding you, like health department, department of buildings, uh, NYPD, uh, NYFD, guns, vests, you know, because you never know, like you know, if if that's a potential drug den or brothel or something like that, what you're going to encounter, right?
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, that's wild.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: It was insane.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's called a march inspection, a multi multi-agency reaction to community hotspot.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so you literally have every agency that can be up in your business, in your business, and they fine-toothed comet.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: So we were like, we're gonna close this restaurant down, let's sell all the food.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and at that time, you know, we were living delivery to delivery, right?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: We could get a delivery every day, every two days.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so we never had a ton of food like just in storage, right?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: We were processing in the morning, cooking it at night, getting it delivered the next morning, processing, cooking, so on.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: So all we had in our kitchen that I felt as though I could do a decent demo was a bunch of um eggs.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I cooked one off, um, hard-boiled, and then I got this idea that I was going to show them how to peel an egg.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so I get to the live audition and they're like setting up the camera.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, Where's your stuff for your demo?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: I said, It's in my pocket.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's an egg.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I was able to peel that egg exceptionally well.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I was explaining to them, you know, the intricacies and science of the egg before that was like a pretty popular thing to do, and I guess they enjoyed it.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, that's kind of the thing about cooking is um you can pay a lot of attention to a very simple thing, or you can pay a little of attention to a lot of things.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I try and do like a nice, a nice mixture of both, you know.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: The egg to me is one of the fundamental building blocks of eating.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, that's great.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: I love eggs.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: You can just I mean it is really kind of the building block of many, many dishes.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I love that.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we'll talk about uh kind of walking into the uh food network star kitchen for the first time.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're sitting there, there's Bobby Flay, there's Giotta De Laurentis, and then Alton Brown, obviously, which I want to talk about your relationship with him.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: But uh just what were you thinking when you walked into that?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Did you feel like you belonged?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Did you feel overwhelmed, or what were you feeling?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was very fortunate to um be a waiter in a well, a captain they call it, at a Michelin-starred restaurant.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: So um we dealt with very famous people all the time, and that might have actually been something like a little X factor, is that I had been trained to not have nerves about someone's fame or notoriety.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: They're just there to eat, and we were just there to make TV, right?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like and you know, I looked at it as like a game, and I kind of tallied up like what do I have going for me?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: And one was that I'm not starstruck by these people.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's it.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so because I ultimately fundamentally, like we're all making food, right?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like food is a pretty uh common thing, and yes, they are famous for it, but we're trafficking in something that um everyone has the opportunity to traffic in, well, hopefully, um, you know, a couple times a day, right?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: So um I just tried to do my thing, and to be honest with you, shooting that show, the the stressors were more of the hurry up and wait, um having to spend hours and hours and hours in rooms with nothing to do because they um they take away at least back then, they don't really do that anymore, but they take away your phone, um, there's no TV access because they they don't want you distracted, but also they do want you to be a little squeamish, right?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: If it was easy, you know, and and if we could all get our own distractions, um, well, it would just be a far easier competition.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think for me, I just kind of turned a little monastic and said, like, you know, when the pain is over, it will be over and I will still be alive.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then um when the pain was over, I won the show.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, it it was a lot.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think that the the fortitude mentally that was required, not in terms of the cooking, not in terms of you know, delivering a 30-second monologue in one take, the the fortitude was missing my friends, my family, my restaurant, my pets.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the fortitude was you know being freezing cold and not having my blankets or you know, my home.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I think I think a lot of people cracked because of that, not because of the the tasks that were were given to us on the show.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: They were difficult by all means.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think you could ask any of the contestants on any reality show, and they'll probably say to you, well, something got to me.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't that the challenge was too difficult.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: It was just that it's a weird environment to do what you do best, and that's why these shows are entertaining, right?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's no market like Flavortown, and uh there's no host, there's no host like guy, and when we cook at home, you know, it if there's any semblance of a giant red clock counting down until you're fate, it's a it's a hungry toddler, you know, like that's it, you know.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's so cool to hear that because you know, just as a just a consumer of the show, you have no idea what goes on, you know, behind the scenes or anything like that.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I I I loved hearing that.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you're you won Food Network Caar, uh, you shoot your pilot, and you know, you're not a contested anymore.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: You are a part of the food network.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: So kind of talk about the next the next steps of uh your career once you won.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it was a rocky time in retrospect.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, because I I got this huge ego boost, I think anyone would, you know.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: America voted.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: And like America doesn't vote on the things that I do as a waiter or as a cook or whether my restaurant is good or anything like that.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: So when America voted that, hey, like we want to hear more from this guy, I was very enthusiastic that let's do it, let's do it.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I was, you know, champing at the bit to um get out there and get things done.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: But that's really not how TV or Hollywood works.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Everything is actually very slow and very calculated because the risk is is very high.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it costs a lot of money to make a show, it costs a lot of money from advertisers to back the show.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it costs a lot of people and effort um to create it.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so um I think I wasn't exactly Food Network Star doesn't prepare you for that, that it's not, you know, instantaneous fame and immediate reservations at the best restaurants in the world.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then also uh the show that I was supposed to get uh didn't exactly materialize in the way that we thought.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: I did get a show, albeit a prime time one.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but because the age demographic dipped by about 25 years when I was on TV, um, advertisers were like, hey, sorry, like we're roll aids, like we don't advertise to 22-year-olds.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um gotcha.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so they were like, sorry, kid.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then I had a couple other little gigs here and there um that that did well.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it was certainly enough to get my foot in the door um in a lot of other smaller venues, but I never really found my footing on Food Network until I saw a guy at a party and he said, if you want to compete on grocery games and you do well, maybe you can judge.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then from there, I'm not kidding you, guys scooped me up.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: And if you recall, we did not have the best interaction on Food Network Star.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: I actually like biffed the presentation challenge there.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, now like I look at him as like being my older brother, honestly.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's it's actually perfect.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I'm gonna skip a segment and we'll go back, but uh, I I do want to talk about guys' grocery games and just not only competing but judging, because honest to God, and I'm not just saying this because I'm interviewing you, I think you were one of the best judges on the food network.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: That means it's on.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um you just describe like I said, you just describe food in such a perfect way.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, so I just wanted to say that.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, but I did want to touch also on uh Eat the Universe, because I'm actually not familiar with it.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: I have not watched it, so could you explain what Eat the Universe was about?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Eat the Universe is on YouTube and it's also has a companion cookbook.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's a cooking show for superhero nerds or a superhero show for cooking nerds.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And um the idea is we have a guest on uh sometimes, most of the time, and uh we make food inspired by characters of the Marvel Universe.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's not I said when I was pitching the show, or when we were talking about it, I didn't even pitch it, it was pitched internally.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um I said, look, we're not making Captain America cupcakes.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: That has nothing to do with Captain America.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it'll look like a shield, you know.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we can get that exactly right, and the visual is going to be great, but that doesn't tell me anything about Captain America or the profound story that has been around for generations now and the various iterations of it.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, I said, look, this is the man out of time, you know, he was a World War II hero.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he had to deal with rations.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we talked about eating off cuts of meat and victory gardens and what that meant.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we made uh beef tongue terrine.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know anybody who's cooking beef tongue terrines on the internet, let alone for Marvel.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, like that's that's cool shit.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Pardon my French.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, you're fine.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: No, I just thought that's really cool because um I'm not like a huge superhero guy, but like I loved Batman and Spider-Man as a kid.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but I just thought that was really neat how you kind of melded those two things together.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: So that was really cool.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thanks.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think you would dig it.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it's it's very much a sugar or a show where I say like a spoonful of sugar.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like you might not be interested in one part, but if you're interested in the other, there's enough there to be like, I can watch the next episode.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I'm I'm super excited to look into that.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so I'm gonna throw you my curveball.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um you're unchopped.
• 20:18
  unknown: Okay.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Hypothetically, you're unchopped.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you open your basket, you have ham hock, gochu jang, turnip greens, okay, and oranges.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: What round is it?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um let's do entree.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, entree, yeah.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: So um, right off the bat, uh, I'm going bimbim bop.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we're gonna stew the ham hock.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna use the ham hock to flavor the rice.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna cook the rice in ham hock liquid.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the turnips, is it turnips?
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Turnip greens.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Turnip greens, great.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we're gonna do um uh a quick pickle on those uh using orange zest, orange juice, so on and so forth.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um the gochujang, uh, we're gonna dilute uh with sesame oil, also the uh orange juice, so on and so forth.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and we're gonna just bibimbop it.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we could probably use more of that orange uh juice and zest for like a marinade.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we'll probably go for another pork product to echo the pork hawk.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and then, you know, in addition to the turnip greens uh which have been pickled, we'll probably uh do a simple uh saute with sesame oil and sesame seed.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh probably need something to like bifurcate the greenness on the bowl.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so we'll probably just uh uh you know what we'll do uh carrots.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um and believe it or not, um I think like cinnamon and cumin on carrot is very nice.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I also think that plays well with gocha jung.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll make a spice mix there.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Put that in our gocha jong.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Gocha jong served on the side.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think ham hock and cinnamon is obviously breakfast.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: You put an egg on top of the bibimbop.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Now all of a sudden we have this weird uh is bibimbop breakfast or Not, uh, which is a classic American interpretation of a rice dish with egg on top.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you knocked that out of the park.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: I tried to stump you as much as I could.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so clearly you know what you're doing.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh oh my gosh.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess how do you think of that so quickly?
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's the job, man.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like that's that's what we do.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, I'm I'm a Lego fanatic, and Lego is like a system, right?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um people don't realize this, but every part has a number.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: And if you look at mechanics and people who build things or or artists who paint, or musicians and notes, everything can potentially have a value, right?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: You could give it a part number.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Some people call it, you know, F sharp or D minor or whatever, right?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: Or uh if you look at all of the color swatches in a paint department, they all have a number associated with them.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so food, we just don't really talk about the part numbers.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what is ham hock?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: Ham hock is dry, so therefore it needs to be reconstituted.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: Ham hock will bring salinity and smoke flavor to whatever it is that you reconstitute.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: What is something that we could use that would need reconstitution benefit from smoke flavor and porkiness?
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Simple rice.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, now we have rice, we've addressed the ham hock idea.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: When you said uh turnip green, I don't know, for some reason I was like, okay, uh we we have to pickle the turnip green.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously, we're gonna use an acidulant.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we have an acidulant in the basket in the form of orange.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Orange not only is an acidulant, but it has the aromatic quality from the zest.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: So orange has kind of two part numbers there as well.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, turnip greens uh can also benefit um just like spinach or any other uh you know, leafy green uh from a little saute.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um okay, now we have rice and these things.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, we've got pork scent in the rice, pork bimba.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know, man.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Easy peasy.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and gochujang was part of it, right?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that also led the charge.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Doing it right.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: All right, you know you're just blowing blowing my mind over here.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I do, man.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Everything has part numbers.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I always tell people like you only think of a banana as being a banana because you've been told it was a banana your whole life, but if you were born and raised that these are called sweet tree potatoes, that's believable.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: So we No, I know what you're saying.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like when I was like making this basket, I was thinking, so I've been dabbling a lot in southern cuisine, and I have been making hoppin' tom.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I was gonna make with that, because the ham hock, the turnip greens, I could add some black-eyed peas, but then I had no idea what to do once or the goju jump.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: But that's just where my mind went, and that's why I'm just an accountant and a podcast host.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, hey man, I as long as you gave it an attempt and you thought about it, you know, so all G dog.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: But we got another fun segment.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: So um obviously you've competed, you've judged.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I like to do a segment called Mount Rushmore.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I want you to just kind of talk about maybe the the top four either most intimidating judges or the chefs when you see them on the other side of your like, holy crap, this is gonna be tough.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, first off, I would like to say that Mount Rushmore is right up the road from where I live, and that it is on stolen land, and it is a defacement of uh a holy mountain.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, um if we were um putting uh four chefs' heads next to each other, that would perhaps inspire fear and intimidate me.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, to me, it it I never have fear or intimidation per se, because we do all traffic in the same things, and it's also a deeply subjective thing.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't necessarily believe that um you know, I don't yuck another man's yum.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if somebody says something that I find awful, like terrible technique is actually good technique, fine.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: That is uh their opinion.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um I will lead with uh Iron Chef Alex Guarna Shelley.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: She's an absolute peach and delight.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, to some.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: She's incredible.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but what I think is most incredible about her is the way that she can uh dissect and pick apart a dish to find uh an immense amount of pros and an immense amount of cons.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh she is truly gifted when it comes to the description and the like she knows more part numbers than almost anyone I know and can talk about it.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: When it comes to cooking, we can all have good days or bad days, you know?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the things that we have stored in our mind that we can get out via our mouth, that's what intimidates me.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's simply because there is less wiggle room, right?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um she can she can dive deeper.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: She can she doesn't talk about the paint, she talks about the brush stroke, you know.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that's one.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Eric Rapair uh up there just simply because uh for like I think 20 plus years he's maintained three Michelin Star, and um I've also heard him speak, and um he has a very uh global perspective of things and of what is a good idea and a bad idea, and he's one of the kind of people that I I I don't think you could ever bullshit, and I don't bullshit in food.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of the first things I've I told myself is like we're not gonna bullshit and try and you know sell something that it ain't.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that's two.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Who else, man?
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh rest his soul, probably Bourdain.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um because I I think actually speaking of soul, I think that Bourdain Bourdain doesn't care about part numbers.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: He he cares about what it means.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you you can you can build the coolest concept car, but if we can't put it into production, you know, like what's what's right the point?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: What's the point?
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: Good good concept, right?
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um and also because you know he's eaten the the the world over, um, and I think he understands the whole other aspect of food, which I like to loosely call context.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh there's a reason an ice cold cheap beer after mowing the lawn uh is better than a$350 glass of red wine, you know, like context is the key.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think he's a master of context.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then um, I'm also gonna throw um uh Dominique Kren uh on that list.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I think that she is, you know, if you had to give aliens a definition of the word Swanee, I'd say, I don't know, ask Dominique Kren.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: And if it's not her, she will explain it to you.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that sounds like a good Mount Rushmore.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: I also didn't know that it was on stolen land, so I apologize if that affected anybody.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, hey, you just had the exact right answer to learning about that, you know?
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: So congratulations.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I'll just give my four uh chefs that I kind of draw to.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, you're number you're number one.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: You're on my you're on my Mount Rushmore.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um shucks.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I actually again agree with Alex.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think she's just amazing.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I go jet with number three.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: I love Jet Tila very much.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh number four is Andrew Zimmer.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, yeah.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Andrew was a uh a tough contender for me, but I um I we're buddies, and so like I've literally shouted at him across an airport and he's like, What's up, dude?
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like um we he headlined an event that I happen to just be in attendance at, and you know, we just shuck and jive a little bit, but you know, his his worldliness um is really like second and none.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um he's just such a a tremendously um generous person when it comes to his experiences and his life, and um he's also one of those open book types that I um I just admire that.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think so many people are guarded in this industry, um, if not guarding their secrets or their recipes or their techniques, but also just guarded about the their accessibility.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so like he's never ever seemed like that to me, where he's been like, it's like as long as you don't offend me or do anything, you know, rude, like cool, let's hang out.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you just can't give him durian, that's the only thing he can't eat.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um he might need it as a um I once made a durian bellini, and there's uh something about the sulfur compound of sparkling wine that I think counteracts the sort of rotten egginess that durian can have.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think a durian bellini would is a great start to the idea of durian, spoonful of sugar, you know.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I've never had it.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I I may never, but uh get it get it freeze-dried on the internet.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually pretty palatable.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I might just do that.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to talk a little bit more about South Dakota.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: So what kind of inspired uh your move there?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's not I mean it's a great state.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: I love South Dakota, but it's not necessarily known for maybe it's cuisine per se.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: So what kind of inspired that well yeah, because we're really known for our cuisine, but uh yeah, what kind of inspired that move and to open that restaurant?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, pretty simple.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I fell in love with my wife, I fell in love with where she's from, I fell in love with her family, and um how's this at a nexus in life where it was possible, right?
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: Where I said, Hey Brooke, uh, I love your family, I love you, and I love this environment.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: Can we stick around and see what happens?
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then we just kept seeing what happens, and we're still seeing what happens, and now we have a kid in three restaurants.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think one thing about the community in South Dakota is that uh it they're very much like a if you build it and it's quality goods at fair prices, they will come, they will support.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um because we have a lot of tourism, we have a huge tourist economy here for Mount Rushmore, Black Hills, uh Crazy Horse, Badlands, uh Devil's Tower, uh, and many other things.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: But um I I think there's just like if you're genuine and authentic and approachable, you can do well here.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I I've said that I actually was quoted as saying something similar to that in a Forbes article recently.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, I really invite anyone uh to come try their hand at making a restaurant here.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's a really easy place to do business.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh it's difficult at times to get uh products and produce, etc., that you might like.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we have approximately six months of winter, but um, if you can figure it out, if you can crack the code, if you can be resourceful, um, restaurants don't really shudder around here too often.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: Knock on something.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh knock on wood.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's really cool because I think South Dakota and Nebraska are kind of kind of similar.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean share a border.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, share border.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I'm gonna talk about kind of the uh how you balance you know, running your restaurant and doing all the stuff you do on Food Network.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: Just how does that balance work?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it's a delicate dance.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um I used to say when when I lived in New York, and like I kind of figured this out around my eighth or ninth year in New York.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um New York is just this giant broom that is sweeping out the the lint, the detritus, the dirt.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: And you as a dirt particle, it's your job to figure out how to dodge the bristles.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: And eventually that becomes a dance.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: You can predict where the bristles are gonna hit.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes actually you can't, and uh then you find yourself uh down and out in New York, and then you go back to wherever it is that you can find some sort of place to rebuild.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so that sort of broom when it was New York turned into my career.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: My career is the broom, right?
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh running late for a podcast, spacing out the podcast twice, you know.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: Look, this isn't a paid endeavor, right?
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: So as far as like what it's going to do for you know, me and my family, uh, you know, it's not high on the totem pole, but my word is my word, right?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: And you break your word so many times and the broom's gonna catch you.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you you overbook yourself too many times or say yes to too many things, you're gonna get the broom.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: And and my career in food television and also my career within my restaurants are just these things that, you know, if I'm not paying attention to them and my home life, if I'm not paying attention to them at the right time, they're gonna say, get the hell out of here.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just gonna be swept to the curb, you know.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: It could be it could be my wife, you know, it could be my wife's family, it could be my restaurants implode, or I'm, you know, ousted, or you know, it could be that the phone stops ringing for um, you know, food networked.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: I uh being essentially like a freelancer within the food world, right?
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't have a contract with anybody.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: It teaches it teaches you how to be nimble and how to how to dance and how to turn over rocks, right?
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: And and be like, look, maybe the phone's not gonna ring at home, right?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like from my wife, right?
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: If I don't pay attention to that and give that the love that it needs.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe, you know, the restaurants are not gonna be busy because I didn't appear there enough.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: And like the idea is like you just you gotta do it.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I don't know that there's any secret other than the fact that um I think I have a knack for paying attention and being observant and figuring out what is a crack that needs to be repaired and figuring out what is a crack that needs to be ignored, freaking out over the right things, um, gently brushing off the wrong things.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I say, like I don't know that I've ever necessarily had good luck.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's always been right place, right time, right attitude, right money, right people around me.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you can get all those five things together, that's pretty fucking lucky.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: Pardon my French if you if you're if you're asking me.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um But also like I try and water, you know, all five of those plants so that they're always growing, right?
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: That I'm always trying to be in the right place at the right time, and certainly I'm always trying to have the right attitude, and hopefully I have the right money to get these things to happen, and that you know, the right I'm hanging out with the right people to root for me and to encourage me to do what I think is the best thing for those five things and all of the parties that are affected by them, if that makes sense.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: That made perfect sense.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't want to take up too much more of your time because I know you've probably got a billion things to do.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um but uh Justin, I just thank you so much for taking the time to do this today.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate your honesty, your craft, the way you talk about food, your creativity.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you've kind of carved out a lane that's completely your own and it uh shows in everything you do.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: So uh from the restaurants to the the commentary you do on the Food Network to the projects you take on.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: I I I just couldn't be happier to have you in today.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, thanks, man.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate it.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: Those were all really good questions, and you know, I I wish you the best.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it takes a lot of nerve and and persistence to uh put yourself out there and you're doing it.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm happy that I, you know, if you're happy, I'm happy, man.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm definitely happy.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: So with that, uh, I think we could put the lid on this pot.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: That was really corny, but that's okay.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: I like this.