Latest / The Bechdel Cast / Aackt 3: Cathy and American Feminist Backlash

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Aackt 3: Cathy and American Feminist Backlash · The Bechdel Cast

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  Speaker 1: support call eight three three four six seven three or
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  Speaker 1: live chat at cal hope dot org. Today, Cathy guys
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: White gave the commencement speech at her alma mater, the
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: University of Michigan, talking about what she talks about best,
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: the insecurities of working American women. The world expects so
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: much of you right now. You'll be expected to be
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: a dynamic businessperson, financial wizard, nurturing homemaker and lightened involved parent,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: environmental activist, physical fitness expert, a sexy and alluring yet
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: responsible partner, champion of human rights, independent thinker, community activists,
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: and if you're a woman, a size five, all at once. Today,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: when the message is that anyone can do anything, it's
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  Speaker 1: going to be very hard for you not to feel
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: that everyone else is doing something and that you personally
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  Speaker 1: are stuck in your same old ruts. And just in
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: case normal humans insecurity doesn't nail you, you'll be bombarded
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: by images that will try look at how women are bombarded.
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  Speaker 1: Look at the commercials. Look at how they picture men
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  Speaker 1: and women in the commercials. Men and commercials are always
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  Speaker 1: doing one thing. The women are doing six things at once. Now,
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  Speaker 1: the man in the commercial will be mowing the lawn
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  Speaker 1: one job. The woman in the commercial is giving herself
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  Speaker 1: a beauty treatment for her hands while she does the dishes.
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  Speaker 1: The man in the commercial is grilling a steak one job.
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  Speaker 1: The woman in the commercial is simultaneously cleaningly of and
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  Speaker 1: disinfecting the floor, popping a five course meal in the microwave,
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  Speaker 1: and faxing the office while explaining the miracle of feminine
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  Speaker 1: hygiene products to her daughter. And if you think that
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  Speaker 1: doesn't translate into real life expectations, head for Detroit during
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: rush hours some morning and look around you on the freeway.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: If you've been listening to this show, you won't be
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  Speaker 1: surprised to hear the creator of Cathy Comics talking about
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  Speaker 1: the unreasonable expectations often pushed on women, the sorts of
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  Speaker 1: expectations that make one say acc speaking hypothetically. Of course,
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  Speaker 1: Cathy Comics certainly changed in tone and mission as the
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  Speaker 1: strip went on, but it serves as a document of
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  Speaker 1: a woman's insecure rities and concerns for thirty four consecutive
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  Speaker 1: years between nineteen seventy six ten, and the issues mentioned
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  Speaker 1: and not mentioned aligned pretty closely with mainstream liberal views
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  Speaker 1: on women of this time. There's also plenty to say
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  Speaker 1: about what this commentary does not reference, a reflection of
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  Speaker 1: how American feminism has historically either ignored or been actively
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  Speaker 1: hostile to the interests of women of color, queer women,
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  Speaker 1: and working class women. So in this episode, I'm gonna
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  Speaker 1: let Kathy lead us through American feminist issues according to
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  Speaker 1: the funny pages, and I'll fill in some blanks of
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  Speaker 1: what does not appear. So she passed into the world
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  Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy six, she's at what, she's out on dates,
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  Speaker 1: and she don't lack politics. From Mama and urban to
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  Speaker 1: feminist friends. She's fighting all the stands it with chocolate
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  Speaker 1: and hair. Kathy. She's fighting back to stress with success.
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  Speaker 1: Let's snack Cathy pan She's got luck going all. So
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  Speaker 1: not to be patronizing, but Kathy cartoons did not invent feminism,
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  Speaker 1: So we do require a little bit of set up
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  Speaker 1: here in order for all of the expectations that eventually
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: stress our heroine out. During the second wave of feminism
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  Speaker 1: to exist in the first place, a lot of social
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  Speaker 1: gains had to be made beforehand. And quick disclaimer here,
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  Speaker 1: I will be the first to say that this episode
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  Speaker 1: will in no way be comprehensive, and so I want
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  Speaker 1: to see at the top. I don't have the purview
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  Speaker 1: to give a full overview of the history of American feminism.
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  Speaker 1: You could be in school for years on that topic.
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  Speaker 1: But I will be including further re sources in the
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  Speaker 1: show notes to help bridge those gaps. So to begin,
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  Speaker 1: we have to take a look at the first wave
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  Speaker 1: of American feminism, which leads us to where Kathy alternatively
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  Speaker 1: thrives and fails in the second wave. So let's go
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  Speaker 1: back to the year eighteen forty eight. Okay, I can
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: already hear you growning. That's so long ago. Sit down
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: and listen. This is going somewhere, I repeat. Was popularly
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: considered to be the launch of the first wave of
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: American feminism with the first formal women's rights convention in
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: Seneca Falls, New York. This wave, while containing many steps
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: forward and eventually steps backward, is considered to have continued
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: through when women got the vote in the US victories
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  Speaker 1: along the way included increased educational opportunities, wives being granted
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  Speaker 1: custody of their own children, women being able to own
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  Speaker 1: property in their own name, and of course the vote.
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  Speaker 1: In the first wave of feminism and in every wave since,
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  Speaker 1: middle class white women have been disproportionately centered in how
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  Speaker 1: the activism is discussed and treated in pop culture. This
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  Speaker 1: was well on display during this first wave. The majority
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  Speaker 1: of commonly discussed women of this era and American feminism
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  Speaker 1: are white. Your Susan B. Anthony's your Elizabeth, Katie Stanton's
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  Speaker 1: your Lucretia Motts, You're Lucy Stones. While American feminists had
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: certainly existed for some time, it's in the mid eighteen
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  Speaker 1: hundreds that they began to organize in large numbers. Much
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: of this early organization drew inspiration from prior experiences with
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: the temperance and abolition movements. Here's what historian Manisha Sinha
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: in The Slaves Cause, A History of Abolition said of
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: first wave American feminism. If not all female abolitionists became
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  Speaker 1: women's rights activists, pioneering feminists owed their public careers to abolition,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: while women of color spoke not just about the oppression
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  Speaker 1: of their gender, but race and class. The white middle
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  Speaker 1: class figureheads of the first wave often ignored or made
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  Speaker 1: their insights unwelcome. There were divides among white feminists as well.
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  Speaker 1: Working class women were concerned with factory conditions and labor exploitation,
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: while white women of the middle class and above were
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: primarily concerned with gaining rights as individuals outside of marriage,
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  Speaker 1: including the ability to own property, have child custody, and vote.
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  Speaker 1: Feminist scholar and general legend Angela Davis explains why upper
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: class white women gained an interest in seeking suffrage for
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: women around this time in her classic book Women, Race
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  Speaker 1: and Class. An ideological consequence of industrial capitalism was the
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  Speaker 1: shaping of a more rigorous notion of female inferiority. It seemed,
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  Speaker 1: in fact, that the more women's domestic duty shrank under
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  Speaker 1: the impact of industrialization, the more ridge became the assertation
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  Speaker 1: that women's place was in the home. Have been productive
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  Speaker 1: workers within the home economy, and their labor have been
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  Speaker 1: no less respected than their men's. The many back tring
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: moved out of the home and into the factory. The
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: ideology of women who begin to raise the wife and
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: mother is ideal. As workers. Women had at least enjoyed
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: the economic quality, but as wives there were destined to
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  Speaker 1: become appendagous to their men, servants to their husband's As mothers,
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  Speaker 1: they would be defined as passive vehicles for the replenishment
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  Speaker 1: of human life. The situation for that white housewife was
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: full of contradictions, and it bears much repeating that black feminists,
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  Speaker 1: many of them born into slavery prior to abolition, were
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  Speaker 1: instrumental in this movement, although their contributions are frequently and
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: unfairly deemphasized by white feminists even today. So journal Truth
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  Speaker 1: was one of the most prominent Black women in the
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  Speaker 1: movement at this time, speaking about her experiences intersectionally as
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  Speaker 1: both a formerly enslaved Black person and as a woman.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Here's a quote from her famous speech Ain't I a Woman?
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: From an Akrons Women Convention in eighteen fifty one, read
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  Speaker 1: by performer st for the Sojourner True Project. In I
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  Speaker 1: am a woman's right. I have as much muscle as
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  Speaker 1: any man, and I can do as much work as
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  Speaker 1: any man. I have plot and reaped and husked and
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  Speaker 1: chopped and mode, and can any man do better than that?
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  Speaker 1: I have heard much about the sexiest being equal. I
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  Speaker 1: can carry as much as any man, and I can
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  Speaker 1: eat as much too. If I can get it, I
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: am as strong as any man. That is today the
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  Speaker 1: poor man seemed to be all in confusion. They don't
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: know what to do. Why children, If you have woman's rights,
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  Speaker 1: give it to her and you will feel better. You
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  Speaker 1: have your own rights, and they will be so much trouble.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: While truth speech was a huge hit in eighteen fifty one,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: Angela Davis explains that a number of white women at
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: the conference did not want truth the only black woman
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  Speaker 1: at the convention to speak at all. The racism displayed
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  Speaker 1: by white feminists of this time is worthy of more
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: discussion and has been chronicled in seminal text like White Tears,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: Brown Scars by Ruby hammad On, Intersectionality by Kimberly Crenshaw,
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  Speaker 1: and Davis's Women, Race and Class, among many many others.
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  Speaker 1: I will link to these books in the description of
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: this episode. What needs to be said is this white
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  Speaker 1: feminist leaders like Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Katie Stanton,
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  Speaker 1: who had supported the abolition of slavery and even worked
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  Speaker 1: with Frederick Douglas to win the vote quote for both
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  Speaker 1: women and African Americans unquote, would later actively work against
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  Speaker 1: the black vote and the interests of black women in particular,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: over and over in an attempt to get white women
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  Speaker 1: the vote ahead of black men. The message being sent
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  Speaker 1: by these leaders is clear. The white woman's vote took
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: precedence over all women's votes for Anthony and Stanton. Following
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: the dissolution of their alliance with Douglas, who had previously
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: stood up for the woman's vote at the Seneca Falls
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Convention in eighteen forty eight, Stanton and Anthony created the
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: National American Woman's Suffrage Association in eighteen sixty nine, specifically
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: to oppose the fifteenth Amendment, which granted black men the vote.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: Anthony famously said she would cut off her right arm
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: before demanding voting rights for black men instead of women.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: With the significant biases of white leaders in mind, one
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: of the strengths of the first wave of feminism was
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: its clear goal and focus, which was suffrage, and after
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: seventy years, that was achieved in nineteen twenty. In these years,
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: even the most liberal wings of the movement were met
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: with vitriol from American patriarchy. A best selling book in
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: eighteen seventy three stated that women could not last in
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: careers and would suffer quote exhaustion of the feminine nervous
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  Speaker 1: system unquote, and President Theodore Roosevelt once said that a
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: white woman who postponed childbirth to do literally anything else
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: was a race trader. So in the years of this movement,
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: steps were made in the right direction. Women gained access
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: to higher education to keeping their wages, as well as
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: early whisperings of widespread birth control access. Following the success
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: of the women Suffrage movement in securing the vote, the
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: nearly seventy five years of consistent feminist activism began to
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: slow down, in part due to active antagonism from American
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: patriarchal structures who blacklisted feminists from publishing their work in
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: major publications and labeled many communists and a quote serious
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: threat to the country. This led to one of the
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: most notable backlashes against the gains of feminists in American history.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: But keep in mind that even with this passing, black
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: women's votes were still not treated equally. Martha S. Jones,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: author of Vanguard, How Black women broke barriers, won the
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: vote and insisted on equality, were all told time in
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  Speaker 1: the following quote, the nineteenth Amendment did not eliminate the
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: state laws that operated to keep Black Americans from the
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: polls via poll taxes and literacy tests, nor did the
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: nineteenth Amendment address violence or lynching. Some African American women
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: will vote with the Nineteenth Amendment unquote. This backlash is
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: carefully documented by writer Susan Kaluti in her book Backlash,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: which documents both the major American feminist movements and the
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: near certainty that periods of women's gains would be followed
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: by a period of severe backlash, backlash that extends to
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: the political, to the cultural, and within the feminist movement itself.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: Valuti describes the first twentieth century backlash as happening in
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties, with a wave of anti feminist media
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: demonization of women who wanted to get divorces or abortions,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: and an increased emphasis on looks and consumptions, exemplified by
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: the rise of the Miss America agent that started in
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: the same year that women got the vote. And the
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: thing about backlashes is they tend to erase a lot
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: of progress. According to Fluti, by nine there were fewer
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: women doctors than there had been in nineteen. Fast forward
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: a bit to the late thirties early forties, women surged
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: back into the workplace in America. During World War Two,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: with men leaving the country to fight in the war,
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: five to six million women entered the workforce, two million
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: of which entered heavy industry jobs. The government began to
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: provide wild stuff like daycare assistants, Working class women fought
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: for unions, and young girls grew up wanting their own careers.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: And keep in mind that this is the era that
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Kathy guiss Wide's mother, as well as the comic character
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: of Mom, would have been growing up in. But when
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: the war ended, backlash again, where the Rosie the riveter
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: messaging of women's roles in war efforts led some to
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: believe that their place in the workplace was here to stay.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: In came the nineteen fifties, those a million women in
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: heavy industry laid off and forced out of their job
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: to make room for veterans returning for war. As ever,
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: working class and women of color often remained in the workplace,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: but not with the same status or pay as in
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: the wartime. Women were denied unemployment pay flat out, and
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: middle class white women were generally pushed into the Donna
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: Reed nineteen fifties era cult of domesticity. Just ten years later,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: the culture dictated that jobs and education were very unfeminine,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: and calling yourself a feminist was once again and athema. Anathema,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: and calling yourself a feminist was once again an athema.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Never said that word out loud before, Good job, Jamie, Okay.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: Integral to this and all periods of backlash is an
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: emphasis on consumerism and on improving the individual. The economy
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: is flourishing in the nineties and fifties in the US
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: made women a larger consumer block than ever, and defining
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: oneself through consumption was a great way to distract from,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: you know, being mad about not having rights. Kathy Guys White,
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: born in nineteen fifty spent her formative years within a
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: period of backlash that predated the second wave feminist movement,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: which most people consider to have been started in nineteen
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: sixty eight, when a New York Times magazine article by
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: Martha Lear coining the term was released. So where were
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: women's rights by the sixties? Hey everyone, it's dramas from
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  Speaker 1: And I think it's good to not pat yourself on
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  Speaker 1: people can kind of hear what it takes. Like I
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• 20:37
  Speaker 1: The nineteen President's Commission on the Status of Women Report,
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: which was initially commissioned by a preassassinated President Kennedy Remember him.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: People love that guy? But would they have if he
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: had We'll never know. This commission was led by Eleanor Roosevelt,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: and while it was still very you better be a mommy,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: eventually in its tone, this report acknowledged a lot of
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: commonly recognized discriminations against women, using hard federal data to
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: back it up. These acknowledgements included recognition of the wage gap,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: of employment inequality, of low support for working class women,
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: and women of color, of a dearth of child care services,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: and on and on, and just like with the first wave,
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: this feminist movement came on the heels of a major
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: racial reckoning in the United States via the Civil Rights Movement,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: where again black women in leadership positions spoke on their
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: role in American society, intersectionally with leaders like Marianne Weathers,
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Ella Baker, who founded the Student Non Violent Coordinating Committee
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: and more. During the Civil Rights Movement, black women worked
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: from the radical and liberal wings and were instrumental in
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: community organizing that led to wins like the Civil Rights
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Act of nineteen sixty four and the Voting Rights Act
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty five, and by the late nineteen sixties,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: a new wave of the women's movement had certainly been building.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Challenging American white patriarchal structures were moved along by both
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: the Civil Rights Movement and the energy from the protests
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: surrounding the Vietnam War, as well as the growing number
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: of options in American feminist literature and organizations. Which brings
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: me to Betty for Dan. Oh, you thought we weren't
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: going to get to Betty for Dan while buckling. She
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: is best known as the author of nineteen sixty three,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: is the feminine mystique a gospel for dissatisfied housewives that
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: bucked and rejected the idea that a woman naturally derives
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: purpose from marriage, children, and housework. We'll get to its
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: shortcomings in a bit, but this mystique was, as free
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Dan put it, quote the problem that has no name, unquote,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: and this clearly spoke to a young Kathy Guy's wife.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: She references the feminine mystique in her work constantly, both
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: through her character and through herself. Here she is describing
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: her teen in college years in a PBS News Hour
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: clip promoting her essay collection Fifty Things That Aren't My Fault.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Generation was right in between the two Betties, Betty Crocker
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: and Betty for Dan, and I wanted to be both
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: of them, and a lot of women did at that time.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: It was and I literally gained forty pounds on one
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Betty's chocolate funge layer cake mix while rating the other
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: Betty's feminine mistake. And a lot of women I think
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: found themselves like the place I was him. But she's
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: not wrong. Betty for Dan is a Betty of note,
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: for better and for worse for Dan was one of
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: the figureheads of the liberal wing of the second Wave,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: going on to found the NW the National Organization for
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: Women in n with forty eight others. Like Anthony and
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Stanton before them, the organization was extremely polarizing throughout the
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: second Wave due to it say it with me over
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: emphasis on the issues of straight, middle class white women
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: above everyone else. Also, like the first movement, the liberal
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: wing of the second Wave came with a pretty clearly
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: defined goal. It was all about passing the e R,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: a equal Rights Amendment, a proposed constitutional amendment that had
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: been unsuccessful in making progress since ninety three. The amendment
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: sought to and get ready for some controversial stuff, guarantee
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: legal rights regardless of gender. To this day, it's never
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: been signed into law. Isn't that nice. This area of
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: the movement was popularly referred to as women's liberation, and
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: there was a part of it women's libbers. The struggle
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: to apply women's lib to everyday life is thoroughly explored
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: in the first few years of the Kathy comics. But
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: women of color, while again being sidelined and actively disregarded
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: by liberal, white centered organizations such as the now were
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: extremely active during the Second Wave years. Some organizations of
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: note membership in the Black Panther Party was over sixty women.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Kathleen Cleaver, who was a communication secretary with the Panthers,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: was once asked what a woman's role in the revolution was,
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: and he replied, quote no one ever asks what a
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: man's place in the revolution is unquote. The National Black
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Feminist Organization, founded in nineteen seventy three, was one of
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: the first to include a lesbian agenda as a part
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: of their mission statement. Asian feminists were extremely active organizers
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: as well, with projects like Asian Sisters in l A
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: drug Abuse Center founded in nineteen seventy one, and the
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: l A Asian Women's Center was an organizing hub until
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: it closed in seventy six. In nineteen seventy four, Indigenous
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: American women formed the Women of All Read Nations or WARREN,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: based on concepts of tribal women's traditions and with the
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: key distinction that patriarchy and colonialism were inseparable concepts. And
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: because of the hostility that these organizations were sometimes met
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: with by the white feminist main stream, the label of
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: feminists sometimes be resisted. Here's Angela Davis speaking on this
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: ATEN talk at the Center of Contemporary Culture in Barcelona.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Everybody started referring to me as a feminists and my
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: response was, I'm not a feminist, you know, I'm a
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: black revolutionary because I didn't see how the two had
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: anything to do with each other. But I realized that
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: I was talking about a certain kind of feminism, a
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: bourgeois feminism, a feminism that is still white, white bourgeois feminism,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: which is unfortunately the the most represented feminism today, and
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: most people think of that as feminism, but that ignores
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: the fact that huge numbers of organic and academic intellectuals
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: who are women of color have transform the very nature
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: of feminism. And the hallmark of feminism today is what
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: we call intersectionality, a recognition of the and not only
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: not only the inter relating um uh character of identities,
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: but as I frequently say, I think intersectionality is is
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: most helpful when we think about the intersectionality of social
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: justice struggles. Queer women experienced active hostility from the mainstream
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: movement as well. Activists Mercia Johnson and Sylvia Rivera organized
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: for trans rights with Star after Johnson had been a
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: key figure at the Stonewall Riots, and both worked with
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: the Gay Liberation Front during these years. Betty free Dan
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: was actively homophobic, referring to lesbians as the quote unquote
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: lavender menace in nineteen sixty nine and did not welcome
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: queer women into the n o W, and of course
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: people were pissed. Rita May Brown, who was a lesbian activist,
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: broke off from the New York branch of the n
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: OW and began radical lesbians who wore t shirts that
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: said lavender men us and staged an action at the
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: Second Congress to Unite Women in nineteen seventy, an action
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: that forced a discussion about homophobia and the exclusion that
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: lesbians experienced in society as well as within the feminist movement.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: While some straight feminists with the liberal mainstream movement, including
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Gloria Steinham, wanted to be more inclusive, Betty for Dan
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: purged lesbians and lesbian sympathizers, as she put it, from
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: the n OW before in nineteen seventy one, change was
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: made to once again allow queer people into the organization.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: So again with the second wave of feminism, there were
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: radical and liberal wings with very different interests, which created
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: significant interior conflict. The Kathy comics are really only engaging
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: with this mainstream liberal movement, in no small part because
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: the strips author was a liberal white woman in a
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: majority middle class white area, writing to some extent about
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: her own experiences and opinions. Cathy's ups do not feature
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: people of color or queer people, and it's radicals like
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: Andrea have politics that actually skew pretty liberal. This is
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: exemplified in the consciousness raising sessions that Andrea runs after
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: work in the nineteen seventies, which Kathy originally finds to
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: be kind of naval gazey and bizarre, although she does
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: give it a fair shake. Here's Andrea. Little boys are
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: always encouraged to boast about their achievement. Well, little girls
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: are scolded for boasting because it's unfeminine. But with assertiveness
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: training exercise number two, women can rediscover the prod we
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: have every right to express. Each one of you will
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: stand up and say out loud the one thing you're
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: most proud of yourself. I am very proud of the
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: fact that I have never boasted. Andrea goes relatively hard
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: in these early years. There's also a funny storyline from
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: the late seventies, where she gets a job as a
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: mall Santa to challenge the patriarchal construct of Santa. Actual
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: radicalism at this time took a very different form and
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: often rejected consciousness raising groups on the same grounds that
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Kathy did, and he thought they were two centered on
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: the self above the collective. Here's a quote I love
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: from the nineteen seventy anthology Sisterhood Is Powerful, from radical
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: feminist Robin Morgan. This is not a movement one joined.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: There are no rigid structures or membership card. The women's
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: liberation movement exists where three or four friends or neighbors
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: decide to meet regularly over coffee and talk about their
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: personal lives. It also exists in the cells of women's
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: jails and the welfare lines, in the supermarket, the factory,
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: the convent, the farm, the maternity ward, the street corner,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: the old Ladies home, the kitchen, the steno pool, the bet.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: It exists in your mind and in the political and
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: personal insights that you can contribute to change and shape
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: and help its growth. This interest in viewing consciousness raising
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: as a wider construc was not shared by all feminists,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: but the emphasis that everyday lives of women should be
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: up for discussion, definitely was. New York Radical Women member
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Carol Hannish popularized the phrase the personal is political in
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: a nineteen sixty nine essay, That is to say that
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: women speaking about their problems in marriage and access to healthcare,
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: in labor issues in appearance was important and emphasizing in
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: these groups that it was counterproductive to say that not
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: living up to this expected image was a personal instead
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: of a systemic failure. Sidebar. Hannish was just very cool
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: in general. She was one of four radical feminists who
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: hung a women's liberation banner over the balcony at a
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: Miss America pageant in ninety eight. Good stuff. So, the
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Cathy character is at first resistant towards consciousness raising because
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: of its, in her perspective, unwillingness to accept gradual change,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: while she is open and even wants to feel better
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: about her station in life. She is an a full
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: women's liber in the sense that she wants romantic love
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: with a man and has a tendency to not assert
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: herself in the relationships she cares about, as well as
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: in the workplace. The example of her screaming at a
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: consciousness raising session when the leader suggests that men should
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: be removed from women's lives altogether, is a perfect example
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: of this, and Kathy guys White has a vested interest
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: in exploring how men reacted to the women's liberation movement
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: taking off through characters like irving Mr Pinkley and the
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: parade of losers that Cathy dates and rejects throughout the
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventies. Also referenced in these strips is the then
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: new term MSS, brought into the mainstream by feminist Sheila
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: Michaels and popularized further by Glorious Dynham's magazine of the
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: same name. The whole idea behind it is that women
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: in the workplace and in general shouldn't be pressured to
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: disclose their marital status when introducing themselves, and Cathy is
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: on board with this. When the Kathy character asks to
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: be called MS in the late seventies, a male employee
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: comments this Mrs MSS or miss miss. Oh you're single,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: then no, I'm miss. Women invented miss, so you wouldn't
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: be able to label us as single or married. Well
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: that may be, but the only woman I see you
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: actually use MSS are single. Miss miss. You don't know
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: that I'm a miss. Yes, I do. If you were married,
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: you wouldn't worry so much about being labeled single. This
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: is what I think Kathy's strips do really well. Take
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: this step forward for the feminist movement like a simple
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: demand to not be defined by marital status, and reflects
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: how the institutions that resist these changes reacted, usually in
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: a way that makes our heroine feel less than This
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: is also reflected in Kathy's relationship with Irving, a man
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: who is clearly uncomfortable with the changing role of women
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: in the world, and unlike some popular criticism would lead
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: you to believe, Irving's behavior was criticized within the strip,
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: although some took rateful issue with the Kathy character herself
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: absorbing a lot of toxic and abusive qualities stemming from
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: his own insecurities, and people were rightfully critical of the
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: fact that she married him for some reason. I digress.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Here is a late nineteen seventies strip with Irving and Kathy.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: You want me around until you read some women's article,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: and then all you care about is your career. Then
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: you get disillusioned by your career and you search for
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: some big romance to give meaning to your life. You
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: do yo yo's you beg me to come back, I
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: come back, I threaten your space, you throw me out.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: You don't even know what you want. Kathy at last,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: a man who really understands me. Something that's always really
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: fun is seeing Irving's character get torn to shreds whenever
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: he comes into contact with Andrea, who thinks that he
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: is not good enough for Kathy, all the way up
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: until the two marry in two thousand five. Here's a
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: seventies era interaction with the two of them, with Cathy
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: sitting silently beside Irving. Throughout history, women have been suppressed, repressed,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: and oppressed serving. We've had miserable jobs, hideous pay, humiliating benefits,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: and not one shred of respect as close to equal
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: human beings. What possible injustice is? Do you think men
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: have suffered that even come close? We never learned to cry.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: You never had anything to cry about. While the Equal
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Rights Amendment ultimately failed, the nineteen seventies proved to be
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: a very productive time for American feminists. According to Fluty,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: millions more women entered the workplace, the wage gap closed
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: to about seventy for upwardly mobile white women. Let's be clear,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: access to birth control increased. Title nine pass which welcomed
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: women into high school and collegiate sports. The Equal Credit
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Opportunity Act of nineteen seventy four was passed, which banned
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: discrimination in access to credit on the basis of gender,
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: marital status, race, religion, national origin, and age. There was,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: of course, Row View eight, the nineteen seventy three Supreme
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: Court decision and that finally, for now gave people with
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: uterus as the right to get an abortion for up
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: to three months. This movement absolutely lacked in intersectionality and
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: solidarity with women of color and with queer women, and
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: the Kathy character benefits from much of the progress of
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: this time. As a middle class white woman, she is
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: able to eventually by her own home as a single woman,
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: she ascends in the workplace. She struggles and fails to
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: get equal pay, but at least isn't legally barred from
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: pursuing it technically, and that is how the comic plays
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: out in the seventies. But by the end of the
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, the second wave feminist movement was considered to
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: have ended. And it's when we get into Kathy's strips
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: from the nineteen eighties that I think the strip really
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: hits its stride. While Kathy comics were never designed to
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: communicate or promote radical feminism, the semi autobiographical format was
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: well equipped to comment on the backlash to second wave
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: feminism that took place through the nineteen eighties. As a
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: general rule, Kathy was a reactor to trends, not a
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: creator of trends, sort of an ancestor to the hashtag
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: relatable content that haunts a million abandoned Instagram pages today.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: In the nineteen eighties, as Reagan came into power, the
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: vast majority of American women saw the winds of the
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, and those who had advocated for them treated punitively.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: Here's how Susan Faludi describes the concept of backlash in
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: a forward to a new edition of her book. The
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: backlash against women's rights works in much the same way.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: Its rhetoric charges feminists with all the crimes it perpetrates.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: The backlash line blames the women's movement for the feminization
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: of poverty, while the backlash is own. Instigators in Washington
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: pushed through the budget cutch that helped impoverish millions of women,
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: fought pay equity proposals, and undermined equal opportunity laws. The
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: backlash line claims the women's movement cares nothing for children's
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: right while its own representatives in the capital and state
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: legislatures have blocked one bill after another to improve childcare,
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: slashed billions of dollars in federal aid for children, and
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: relaxed state licensing standards for daycare centers. The backlash line
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: accuses of the women's movement of creating a generation of unhappy,
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: single and childless women, but it's purveyors in the media
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: are the ones guilty of making single and childless women
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: feel like circus freaks. To blame feminism for women's lesser
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: lives is to miss entirely the point of feminism, which
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: is to win women a wide range of experience. Feminism
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: remains a pretty simple concept, despite repeated and enormously effective
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: efforts to dress it up in Greece paint and turn
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: its proponents into gargoyles. Oh this backlash of the nineteen
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: eighties manifested both in large, systemic and small, innocuous, everyday
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: ways for as close as the second Feminist had seemed
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: to passing the Equal Rights Amendment just years or leader,
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: there was significant pushback from the evangelical right and from
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: former allies of the feminist movement. Throughout the decade. Cathy's
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: strips focus on the more innocuous but still clear backlash,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: partially as a privilege of her race and class, and
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: personally because nothing too depressing was really tolerated in the
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: funny Pages at that time. One of the things she
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: addresses is a severe uptick and sexual harassment in the
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighties workplace, as demonstrated by Cathy's boss, Mr Pinkley,
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: harassing and pressuring her to let him into her home.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: In two, Cathy, being way cooler than anyone ever gave
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: her credit for, punches him in the face. He is
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: not punished for this, but Charlene and Cathy then begin
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: a whisper network in the workplace to protect others from
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: it happening to them. In the first episode, we touched
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: on Andrea's reaction in trying to motivate Cathy to advocate
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: for herself in the aftermath. Here's a slice of that strip.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: All right, then, what are you going to do about Mr? Pinkley?
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: I'll show him, I'll quit my Joba. Wrong. Wrong, wrong.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: The hopelessness of this situation is very Eighties Women who
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: pursued justice after being harassed at work were often met
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: with well, no job and further harassment. To this end,
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: Andrea takes center stage in the comic strips commentary on
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: the struggle of working mothers, specifically with maternity leave. Andrea
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: began as almost a parody of nineteen seventies women's Livers,
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: originally vowing to focus on her career and ignore dating
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: in children, but she has a change of heart in
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties, she gets married and has her first child, Zenith.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: By the end of the decade, the comic basic clear
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: that this isn't a betrayal of her values. Andrea's personality
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: and tireless advocacy for women continues, both in the way
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: that she ensures her marriage to husband Luke remains an
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: equitable one and with her attempts to retain her power
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: in the workplace while raising her daughter. After giving birth
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: to Zenith, Andrea returns to work to con her maternity leave,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: only to discover there is no maternity leave. Here's a
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: strip from with Andrea talking to the secretary at her work.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: What do I fill out to begin my maternity leave?
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: We have no maternity leave here? What no leave, no pay,
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: no job. When you come back, I think I'm going
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• 43:37
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  Speaker 1: for more information. Andrea then goes to her boss to
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: confirm that she was never guaranteed maternity leave and it's true.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: Personnel confirms that she can either quit, be fired, go broke,
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: hiring childcare, or collapse from exhaustion doing it herself. She
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: takes some time off without pay and returns to work again,
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: asking to build back up to her normal workload while
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: keeping Zenith at work to avoid expensive childcare she can't afford.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: But this time she's told her job has been given
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: away altogether. In this trip, she's holding baby Zenith in
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: her arms. As someone trying to raise a young feminist herself.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: She's furious here she is talking to the same secretary.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: How could you give my job away? Companies aren't required
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: to hold jobs for women who take time off to
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: have babies. Andrea, well, that's ridiculous of the whole labor
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: forces woman and of us will have children. This is
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: let's just say this company believes in old fashioned values.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: What they found someone who would take your job for
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: a nineteen fifty salary. Andrea is using real statistics from
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: six here. And she goes to the matt fighting for
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: parental leave in her workplace, but ultimately loses in spite
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: of the millions of mothers in this same era that
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: we're facing the same issue. She tries to raise Zenith
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: in a gender neutral environment, but she fails at this too.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: The toys of this time are extremely binary, and she
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: ends up giving up due to lack of options and energy.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: Is that an inspiring or motivational storyline. No, it's very bleak.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: And Andrea goes on to work as a tempt for
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: six fifty an hour. But the thing is this was
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: reflective of a very real possibility for working women of
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: this time. Andrea comes into play again when campaigning from
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: Michael Ducaccus in his presidential bid against George Bush Sr.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: Enlisting Cathy in the efforts as well, as I mentioned
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: in episode one, including an overt political endorsement, got the
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: Kathy strip dropped from some papers and moved to the
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: editorial pages by other papers. But Kathy, Guys White and
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: her characters held firm. As Faludi notes in Backlash, Ducaccus
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: would later pretty severely back pedal on his promise to
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: working women in pearance by the end of his bid
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: and a failed attempt to gain wider support, and so
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: a decade after Andrea was dutifully raising consciousness in her community,
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: she was a married mother who had been all but
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: banished from the successful career she'd spent a decade building,
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: and she was understandably piste off about it. Unfortunately, she
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: starts to fade from the Mikes as the years go on,
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: but the storylines involving Andrea in the seventies and eighties
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: are truly some of my favorites. A lot of Cathy
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: and Andrea's friendship is built around the cost of cards.
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: That is, the woman who has it all, someone who
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: is a career woman, a domestic goddess, and a doting mother,
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: all without breaking a sweat. As the comic goes on,
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: Guy's wides commentary is clear not only is this an
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: unrealistic expectation for anyone, but the powers that be in
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: the workplace, government, and often a woman's own home were
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: sometimes actively working against this being a possibility, and so
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: in the nineteen eighties we see a lot of Cathy
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: feeling bad about herself when asked by pop culture to
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: compare herself to other women. To put that in context,
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: a huge component of backlash against social causes is an
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: increased focus on consumerism and self improvement through things like
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: observing fashion trends, investing in self help books, and joining
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: health clubs and gyms versus collectively organizing help. They really
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: star listen to earls we get you, show in the
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: world what you can do. Get it in shape, her feeling,
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: get it in shape, it's so feeling. And run let's
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: see what just the wait if you work out? Twist
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: and Twirl comes in formatons and singer Pom Poms and
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: run Twist. I'll be doing a whole episode on Kathy
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: Guys Whites commentary on food, fashion and beauty later in
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: the series. But even outside of the advertising blitz that
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: defined and distracted so many in the nineteen eighties. It's
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: interesting to watch the Kathy character constantly feel that she
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: isn't living up to the standards that she's supposed to,
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: standards that are basically impossible to achieve. Here's a strip
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: from the early eighties, Kathy sitting on her armchair at
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: home watching a TV show that says this, Welcome to
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: the Women's Hour, and now here's your host, Mr Bob Black. Hello,
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: we're talking to Margie Miller, married, mother of to founder
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: and president of a small manufacturing empire, and author of
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: two best selling novels and three plays. Margie at and
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: with all this going on, how in the world do
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: you have time to be on our show today? Margie says, Oh,
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: it's nothing, Bob. The little ones are at their Greek
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: literature workshop and the opera I have a small pardon
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: doesn't begin until seven o'clock. He replies, well, you must
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: have a lot of help at home. As the show continues,
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: Kathy begins to sink down in her chair. Margie says, actually,
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: I find a well organized house rends itself. Of course,
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: it has to be a bit cluttered because of the
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: addition I'm building this week. The host says, my, my,
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: you don't do anything the traditional way, do you. Cathy
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: grabs her TV in anxiety. Margie says no, not unless
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: you count the two D fifty sweater sets on it
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: each year for needy causes. The host says, Margie, thank
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: you so much for being with us today. And the
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: last panel, Kathy is sobbing in front of her TV,
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: as the host says, it's women like you who are
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: helping women all over the world feel better about themselves.
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: I love it. This came from a very personal place
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: for guys White, who wrote on this in saying, in theory,
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: we all say we've rejected the notion of being superwoman.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: In practice, I don't know anyone who isn't still trying.
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: Kathy guys White was uniquely suited to comment on this time.
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: Here she is to the Detroit Free Press when asked
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: about her works views on feminism, Kathy puts feminism in
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: a light that's more acceptable to many women than the
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: hardline feminism that turns some women off. It's true Kathy
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: is vulnerable. She doesn't win all the time. She's always
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: trying to improve her life, and she often falls short
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: of her goals. Some may say that's a bad way
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: to portray the new woman. Well, I say it's realistic.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: I know no woman who has it totally together, and
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: I think that okay. I think you can be a
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: feminist and still balance your checkbook by changing banks every
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: six months or so. I think you can still be
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: a feminist and eat frozen donuts right out of the
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: freezer and still say yes when you mean no, or
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: no when you mean yes. My goal is to keep
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: Kathy honest and close to real life. But declaring yourself
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: a feminist was not necessarily a very cool thing to
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: do in the eighties. It's no secret that women are
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: not a monolith, and many have upheld their own oppression
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: for power, profit, or just fun over the years. Philish
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: Laughlely emerged as the big bat of the feminist movement
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: in the nineties seventies and successfully campaigned against the Equal
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: Rights Amendment so hard that Kate Blanchett played her on
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: a TV show and women Have No Rights Awesome. The
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: eighties uplifted many women, mostly white, who denounced the feminist
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: gains of the seventies, while visibly benefiting from those same gains.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: That is to say, the reason that many of these women,
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: including Phyllis Lafley were able to become such prominent anti
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: feminists was because they had child care and support to
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: focus on their careers, you know, things feminists fought for.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: So while feminism wasn't trendy in the nineteen eighties, to
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: say the least, that doesn't mean that feminists weren't doing
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: great and important work during this time. In Bell Hooks
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: published From Margin to Center, which included a strong critique
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: of the feminine mystique, saying that it was solely concerned
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: with the interests of upwardly mobile white women. Hooks wrote
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: this Free Dan's famous phrase the problem that has no name,
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: often quoted to describe the condition of women in this society,
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: actually refers to the plight of a select group of
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: college educated, middle and upper class married white women. Housewives
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: would with leisure, with the home, the children, buying products, wood,
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: and more out of life. Free Dance includes her first
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: chapter by stating, we can no longer ignore that voice
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: within women that says I want something more than my
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: husband and my children and my home. That more she
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: defines as careers. She did not discuss who would be
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: called in to take care of the children and maintain
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: the home if more women like her self were freed
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: from their house labor and give an equal access with
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: white men to the professions. She did not ask of
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: the needs of women without men, without children, without holbmes.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: She ignored the existence of all non white women and
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: poor white women. She did not tell readers whether it
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: was more fulfilling to be a maid, a babysitter, a
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: factory worker, a clerk, or prostitute than to be a
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: leisure class housewife. The closest Kathy's trips come to addressing
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: these concerns are through Charlene. Charlene is Cathy's best friend
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: at work and eventually her maid of honor, and was
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: a stand in for a woman who was relegated to
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: jobs that many feminists referred to as pink caller secretarial jobs,
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: grossly underpaid and undervalued in spite of their importance to
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: the workplace. Charlene has a story in the late eighties
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: about her status as the lowest paid employee in the
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: Product Testing Incorporated Office. She advocates for herself her lack
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: of pay, respect, and career mobility every Secretaries Week, and
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: it's a running joke in the comic that her circumstance
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: never changes. Even Cathy dismisses her concerns in a very
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: upper management I pretend I do not see it kind
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: of way. Here's a strip. When I started here at
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: ten thousand dollars a year, they got me a three
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: thousand dollar typewriter to type. On the year they could
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: only give me a two hundred dollar raise, they bought
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: a two hundred thousand dollar phone system for me to operate.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: The year I got e three hundred dollar raise, they
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: bought an eleven thousand dollar copy or a four thousand
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: dollar facts machine and a one million, five hundred thousand
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: dollar computer system for me to use. Why do I
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: get the feeling I'd be more bad reuble to this
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: company by game with a plug. Kathy guys White is
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: again addressing a very real nineteen eighties trend here. While
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: those who wanted feminists to shut up about workplace harassment
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: and the pay gap cited figures indicating that women's presence
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: in the workplace had increased, they tended to not get
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: specific about where they were in the workplace, and it's
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: not surprising why by nine six a higher rate of
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: working women were receiving poverty wages than in nineteen seventy
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: three in areas like the secretarial pool were overwhelmed with women,
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: and historically, gender segregation by profession means that marginalized genders
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: are making much less money for equal work. Charlene remained
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: the secretary throughout the comic and is extremely good at
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: her job but never treated fairly, and by the end
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: of the Backlash eighties, Kathy's strips were often focused around
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: existing in the wreckage of the feminist backlash and the
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: dissonance that it created in women's lives. Here's a strip
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: with Kathy and Charlene from that hits on this theme exactly.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: I'm going to read the captions. While their friends got engaged,
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: they got promoted. While their friends took Lama's class and
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: made dinner, they took meetings and did lunch. Some call
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: them the lost generation of women. Others say their time
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: has just now come after years of devoting themselves to
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: developing careers. The over thirty set emerges this march like
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: the first flowers of spring. Brave, confident, proud, and ready
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: for love. And then we see Charlene and Kathy. Their
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: outfits are a lot of they're holding diet cookies. Cathy's
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: wearing a Swhite shirt that says I heart Lean cuisine.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: They're just decked out in eighties consumerism. The comic concludes
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: the debutante class of By the beginning of the nineties,
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: George Bush Sr. Was President, the third wave of feminism
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: was on the horizon, and Kathy guys White used Andrea's
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: waspy helicopter parenting to poke some fun at how many
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: upper class white feminists had taken to raising their kids.
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: Most feel the third wave of feminism began around when
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: Anita Hill spoke to an all white Supreme Court about
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: being harassed by Judge Clarence Thomas. Guy Swhite was extremely
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: interested in commenting on how sexual harassment affected the workplace, interestingly,
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: not how it affected the women in the workplace, who
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: are all well aware that this happened all the time,
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: but she focuses instead on the men's reaction to realizing
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: that there could be consequences for their behavior. You might
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: remember that Cathy had been sexually assaulted by her boss,
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: Mr Pinkley in her own house in two when he
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: forced a kiss on her, she punched his lights out,
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: But the Mr. Pinkley character remained this lovable, misogynous boss
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: in the workplace throughout the comic, and Mr Pinkley and
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: Cathy's other male co workers could not handle the fall
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: out of the Anita Hill hearing. Here's a strip from
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: as you know, this office has always prided itself on
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: its progressive attitude toward women. While most companies rushed into
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: discussions about sexual harassment right after the Thomas Hill incident,
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: I felt we all needed a few weeks for personal reflection.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: By waiting until today, I believe I've once again demonstrated
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: my profound sensitivity to the feelings of the women in
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: our workplace. And according to my wall calendar, the majority
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: of you are now safely past your p MS days. Jeez.
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: Later in this storyline, Pinkley uses what I am assuming
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: is company money to bring the men at the company
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: on a retreat to quote unquote reclaim their manhood. By
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: the time it's over, the men have learned nothing, but
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: they have taken a free vacation with company money. And
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: that might sound ridiculous, but it's based in the real
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: life bizarro work of Robert Bly, a poet who became
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: the founder of the New Age masculinist community want to
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: turn in into men again. He would do this by
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: having men pay him three hundred dollars the grift is strong,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: meet him in the middle of nowhere in Minnesota, and
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: would then encourage them to find the deep masculine through
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: wearing wild animal costumes and walking around on all fours.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: This was a real thing after the Anita Hill hearings.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: Most of what Kathy Guy's White discusses about women's issues
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: are related to beauty standards, diet culture, changing fashion trends,
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: and the commodification of radical movements like Riot Girls by
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: fast fashion, but there are solid moments of workplace commentary
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: as well. In Guy's White's view, much of the financial
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: gain that women, mostly white women, had made in middle
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: management was squandered trying to achieve an unrealistic beauty standard
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: that was pretty rigidly imposed in the workplace. Here's a
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: strip from the late nineties to that effect, from a
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: collection called I Am Woman, Hear Me Snore. In it,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: Kathy is attempting to write off these expenses on her taxes.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: Any deduction is this year for the extra expenses women
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: and her trying to dress appropriately for the twenty different
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: images were supposed to maintain any right offs for the
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: unpaid time women to spend creating relationships, without which there
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: would be no family values because there'd be no families,
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: any allowances whatsoever. For the fact that our nation would
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: screech to a halt of it weren't for the underpaid,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: overworked women cheerfully waiting through the mark. No, forget Uncle sam,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: what this country needs is an aunt. Samantha Kathy would
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: remain in print for the remainder of the Third wave
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: of feminism, which ended around two thousand ten, when the
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: comic did and she does, comment on a fair amount
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: of things going on. Third wave feminism was more inclusive,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: while still having a strong tendency to center white women.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: There were many critiques from women of color and trans
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: women in particular. As gate keeping and the feminist movement continued,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: the riot girl movement took off in the nineties, with
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: bands like Bikini Kill, Free Kitten, and Bratt Mobile using
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: both their music and their determination to remain d i
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: y to release politicized material and communicate their ideas even
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: further using zines. The Riot Girls zine created in Washington,
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: d C. Were made and distributed by punk girls, for
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: whom Miss Magazine had long become stale. For Kathleen Hannah,
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: the front woman of Bikini Kill, had become activated as
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: a feminist after reading, oddly enough, the feminine mystique, and
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: she became a major advocate for including sex workers in
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: the feminist movement as well, which gatekeepers of the Second
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: Wave had not been enthusiastic about in the least. With
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: this progressive surge also came the intense commercialism of feminist
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: ideals in the nineties. This meant Spice Girls, girl Power,
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: Disney princesses of the nineties having discernible personality is sure,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: but also existing in very rigid societal roles in heterosexual
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: relationships still you aren't you dam distress and damsel and
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: in distress, I can handle this. These moves were are
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: often viewed as cynical, with male executives still the primary
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: people and beneficiaries of choices like these, watered down feminist
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: values often became more of a marketable tagline than an
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: actual consideration in moving things forward. This still happens now
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: so well an attempt. I don't think that gal Powa
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: feminism really accomplished that much because as it was happening.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: A slew of nineties tabloid stars were dragged through the
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: mud by the emerging twenty four hour news cycle in
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: a way that many are starting to scrutinize today. I
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: think you're Anita Hills, think you're Tanya Harding's your Monica
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: Lewinsky's your Amy Fisher's your Janet Jackson's shout out to
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: the year wrong about podcast you probably listen already. Women
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: of the second and third waves of feminism were also
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: very often at odds. Many Second waivers felt that third
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: wave feminists, who were the first generation to grow up
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: with the benefits that the movement had made, did not
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: appreciate the work and sacrifice that the women of the
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: sixties and seventies had made, and third wave feminists wanted
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: to move in a new direction, rejecting the extent of
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: gate keeping and lack of inclusivity of liberal white feminist
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: figureheads from the second wave. Writer Rebecca Walker explains this
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: conflict from a unique standpoint. Her mother is author Alice Walker,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: who wrote The Color Purple, and her godmother is Gloria Steinham.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: Walker says this there is a definite gap among feminists
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: who consider themselves to be second wave and those who
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: would label themselves as third wave. Although the age criteria
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: for second wave feminists and third wave feminists as murky,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: younger feminists definitely have a hard time proving themselves worthy
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: as feminists, scholars, and activists. And you know who else
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: commented on this rift year girl Kathy. Cathy's interactions with
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: younger women is very interesting to me, in part because
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: they're pulled from a semi autobiographical place. Kathy guys by
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: It's daughter was growing up in the third wave of
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: a minism, and the Kathy character's interaction with third wave
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: women are very telling. Here's a strip from where the
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: Kathy character talks with a female friend of her ten
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: years younger hottie boyfriend Alex. Of course, it's women my
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: age who really paved the way for women your age, Shaannah,
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: it must be incredible for you to face a world
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: with so many options, no kidding. Now we women can
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: use our college degrees to be underpaid in one hundred
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: different professions. Now we can work and spend all the
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: money on daycare, or not work and be homeless. Now
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: women can demand more for ourselves and go bankrupt immediately.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: Or charge at all and be slowly strangled by eighteen
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: percent interest. Alex says, how's it going in there, Kathy,
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: I've just been soaked by the fountain of youth. Another
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: issue Cathy addressed was the anxiety around fertility and age,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: yet another issue that was frequently misrepresented in the media
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: in order to viewed cynically discourage people with uteruses from
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: remaining in the work place for too long or aiming
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: their goals too high for fear of the almighty biological clock.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: Even in the comics Last Days After Kathy gets married
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: in two thousand five, another comment on boomer women who
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: delayed marriage and children to help develop their careers and themselves,
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: Kathy guys White explored the frustrations and pressures that came
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: with aging. Long after Andrea and her children have disappeared
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: from the comic, after Charlene has gotten married and had
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: two children, Kathy continues to pursue the idea of being
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: an optimized woman, and it's just as impossible as it
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: ever was. Third wave feminism sought to address a lot
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: issues like rape and domestic violence, the fight to preserve
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: reproductive rights when conservative after conservative tried to remove them
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: and included race, class, and trans rights in a more
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: meaningful way in their platform, they ultimately lacked a clear goal.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: I would argue that one of the greatest accomplishments of
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: third wave feminism was moving organizational efforts across mediums. In
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: the nineties, Riot Girls pioneered zines, and by the two
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: dozen tens the movement had been brought online. Many say
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: fourth wave feminism is what's happening right now. I kind
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: of reject the whole wave thing anyhow, but it's a
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: clean way to organize a podcast. Here's my question. Why
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: have feminists not embraced or even engaged with Kathy at
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: any point. It's very possible that there's just a million
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: bigger fish to fry, but different areas of different movements
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: have found the time and energy to rally around other
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: fictional women of different movements. Think you're Mary Tyler, Moore's
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: your Joe March is your Lisa Simpsons. Come on, Stacy,
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: have waited my whole life to hear you speak. Don't
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: you have anything relevant to say? Don't ask me. I'm
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: just a girl in on hating Kathy essay in the
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: comics journal writer Juliette Cohn takes a guess, but what
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: of the feminists? Why is there no defense from them?
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: How has Kathy managed to fail them so utterly? She is,
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: as they state, not a role model, And though the
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: need for female role models is real, so too is
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: the use of this argument towards patriarchal aims. But beyond this,
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: there is a certain reproach in the tones of Cathy's
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: female critics of frustration. Why couldn't you do better? How
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: could you fail so visibly? It is an anger at
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: her imperfection that reveals an implicit understanding that Cathy's circumstances
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: are not fair, that her stumbling weighs more than a man's.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: It is a criticism born from fear of censure. What
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: might Cathy's weakness bring upon us? Con continues later in
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: the same essay. Womanhood is mundane, is what it comes
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: down to, and Kathy operates squarely within what we understand
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: womanhood to be. Women's work is diapers, typing, cooking, and
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: data entry. Cathy dwarfed by stacks of anonymous paperwork, celebrated
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: for her diligence but never in ovation. Woman's play is frivolous, superficial,
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: distracting and materialistic Kathy enjoying a chick flick, acute stiletto,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: and evening in with a friend and some ice cream.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: Women's sorrow is only poetic if it can become a
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: symbol that means something to a man. Cathy cries most
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: regularly over her inability to become that symbol. Her frustrations
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: at work, including an episode of sexual harassment from her boss,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: could never be considered powerful in the manner of the
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: man in the gray flannel suit or death of a salesman.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: Her play is goofy, and the strip itself is, of
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: course an artifact of woman's play. Her sorrow is to
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: be mocked. No one remarks, going on a decade since
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: the strip's end, about the expressiveness of Guys White's line.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: No one discusses the artfulness of the interplay between Kathy,
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: largely ambivalent to feminism with a capital F, and her
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: more openly political friend Andrea, the consciousness of this choice,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: as Guys White once remarked, embodying the position of women.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: Quote launched into adulthood with a foot in both worlds,
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: and quote will not be lauded. I really like watching
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: characters funk up and adjust and grow over time, even
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: if they don't grow as quickly as people would like.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: And again, Kathy is commenting pretty much exclusively on feminisms
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: traditional beneficiaries. That's important to note, and I think it
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: made her work a kind of safe choice to feature
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: in the funny pages at first. The absence of black, brown,
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: queer Asian Native women from the pages of the newspapers
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: during this era is absolutely a failure, and I believe
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: primarily an editorial and systemic one. So no, Kathy is
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: not an ambassador of perfect feminism and certainly does not
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: speak for all women, and she never claimed to by guys.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: By its own admission, the Kathy character was created as
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: comfort food for those who felt slower to apply the
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: tenets of feminism to their daily lives, who were making
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: an active effort to unlearned behaviors and instincts they've grown
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: up with but maybe weren't quite there yet. If anything,
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: I think the Kathy character reflects some of the games
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: made by American feminists between the seventies and the two thousand's,
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: as well as the frustrating, stopped and start nature of
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: progress and the exclusionary measures taken when ending the comic
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: in two thousand ten, Kathy guys White said this, I
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: am not stopping the strip because I think anything has
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: been resolved. When I see my daughter and her generation,
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: I see that a lot of the games between men
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: and women fixation on fashion. I'll die if my hair
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: doesn't look right, And I really thought we could have
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: lost that in the last thirty years, but I guess
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: we haven't. She continues a bit later, I feel like
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: a lot of the time my strip made sort of
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: political comments about the state of women, their expectations, state
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: of women in the office, being harassed, being held back,
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: being utterly confused by the mixed messages we get from
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: everything from what size to be had, a few about ourselves,
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: how to look to me, that's all sort of political.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: A lot of what I wrote about was the woman's
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: place in the world and the pressure we're under to
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: be a certain way, to think certain things, to have
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: or not have certain opportunities. And that's where Kathy and
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: American feminism stands. Her work does not represent the experience
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: of all American women, because American women are not a monolith.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: There are a lot of perspectives that we don't see
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: in her work. What we do see is how an
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: average woman received the gains and stepped back around feminism.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: Whether you agree with her takes or not, I'm going
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: to close this episode with some words from Roxanne Gay
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: and her essay collection Bad Feminist. Gay says this, feminisms
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: failings do not mean we should hue feminism entirely. People
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: do terrible things all the time, but we don't regularly
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: disown our humanity. We disavow the terrible things. We should
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: disavow the failures of feminism without disavowing its many successes
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: and how far we have come. American feminism has been
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: fractured and laud as hell from the jump, and understanding
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: that history feels important in order to move forward, though
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: a small one, I think Cathy Strips are a part
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: of that, and as the only woman in the Funny
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: Pages at the beginning of her career, those contributions are significant.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: And speaking of those Funny Pages, what was going on there?
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: Next week we take a look at the women who
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: came before Kathy in this media, at the men she
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: was sharing the pages of, and how newspaper comics grew
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: and changed during her thirty four year tenure. There will
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: be boondocks, there will be Dilbert's, and with deepest regrets,
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: there might be even a family circus next week on
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: ac Cast. Act Cast is an I Heart radio production.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: It is written, researched, and hosted by me Jamie Loftus,
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: Sophie Lichtaman is the World's Greatest producer, Isaac Taylor is
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: the world's greatest editor. Zoe played It's the World's Greatest music,
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: and Brandon Dickard wrote the world greatest theme song for
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: this show. In today's episode, you heard the vocal talent
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: of Jackie Michelle Johnson as Cathy, Melissa Lozada Oliva as Andrea,
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: Maggie Mayfish as Charlene, Miles Gray as Mr. Pinkley, and
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: Irving with additional performances might be wonderful Joel Smith, Sharene
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: Lanny Unist, Caitlin Derante, Julia Claire, and Isaac Taylor. Oh Boy,
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