Latest / Upcoming Trial of Nathan Chasing Horse April 14, 2025 / It's all in the Math this balance in relationships or situationalships
Transcript
- Marina Crane: Well good morning Sutina, good morning Calgary, and good morning Alberta and good morning Canada and good morning the world. So it's Sunday, the twenty fourth of May. ⁓ my goodness. Yes, it's been almost a month since the sentencing of Nathan Chasing Horse. And it's been quite a journey of self reflection. I have a friend who's sixty-six years old, non-Indigenous, and she's on top of all the many degrees she has, she's going and doing practicum to be a therapist. So we had discussions on ⁓ my issues with non-indigenous therapists. And she was making content content about her supervisor. And ⁓ Like I've had history. Like I it's not like I studied social work or psychology to become a therapist or a social worker. No, my my experience is just ⁓ I shouldn't say just. There's a lot of things that I have un uncovered and discovered about myself that I hope in my podcast will help educate and ⁓ sort of give some relief to indigenous women that ⁓ there is hope out there in in the real world. Because I think sometimes for me I've cloistered myself and isolated myself not even realizing the purpose behind it. Now my friend who ⁓ again I bless her heart, I don't know what I'd do without her, ca has given me some perspective in terms of matriarchy and patriarchy. As well as I just got off the phone with my cousin ⁓ in Manitoba who who is matriarch. And we had a discussion on death and dying. And I said to her, I have no worries about, you know, somebody finding me dead in my house. I I know my family will take care of me. Now understand this, I don't have I've never had a husband or a boyfriend. I've I have family, like ⁓ brothers and sisters, nieces and nephews. And and you know, I know they'll take care of everything for me. it's just being a matriarch. And and agre again, my cousin also agreed with that, where she lives in an indigenous community and it's matriarchal. And and th this is the sum of it, because I don't think ⁓ non indigenous people who are have been raised in patriarchy understand. I I do think in in some senses it might okay, so this is the the metaphor or the discussion. Like during World War Two, people said, Well, how did Hitler manage to convert so many people into, you know, committing genocide against, you know, another race of people? And the logic was, well, he was ⁓ he said one plus one is three and and you know, people knew that one plus one is two, but he convinced them it was three. Now, I'm saying one plus one is is eleven. Okay, so there's there's again this whole concept of what one plus one is. So you have one where there's manipulation and and ⁓ what do they call it? ⁓ not mansplaying, ⁓ gaslighting. When when you're trying to convince somebody of a reality that they've cr fictitious reality that they've created for you to fit in that little slot for them. ⁓ gaslighting. ⁓ you could even call it white privilege too from my point of view. Also too, there's also gender I don't know if it's gender or just healthy human sexuality when you say one plus one is eleven. So again, a different concept in in terms of how people think, in terms of metaphor. So how should I start first? Well my cousin and I we were talking about what white privilege is and and then how I think white privilege without even knowing it ⁓ you know, put their foot in their mouth. And sometimes they do it deliberately. So we were having a discussion because one of our first cousins, ⁓ whose ⁓ father is white, again, ⁓ my auntie, ⁓ like I knew her and I knew one of her daughters 'cause they came to visit when we were when I was a child and I still, you know, know of like there they're still I still have connections with the family. So the difference is there were at least ⁓ two different fathers in the picture and both of them were white. Now the one the one ⁓ f ⁓ cousin I know her and sh so she still has connection with ⁓ indigenous or indigenous aunties because of the connection with her mother matriarchy. Now the other thing is she's got half sisters who ⁓ whose fathers were white as well. And the irony of it is like ⁓ my aunt was not allowed to go to her white husband's farm. She was only allowed into the farmhouse when her mother-in-law died. So a lot of this r systemic racism when it comes to indigenous women marrying non-indigenous men. And ⁓ the social con constructs that the family ⁓ that she's marrying into has created for her. Very unhappy, unstable, ⁓ no support whatsoever. So the children grow up like with you know, like a false sense of like maybe an illusion or delusion or some sort of coping mechanism to feel like, ⁓ no, I'm indigenous when really the denialism or the Let me put it this way. When when when Nathan Chasinghorse came into the community, he was passing himself off as a a youth worker, a youth, you know, someone who'd work with youth. Again, nobody from his community would respond to any, you know, my putting the word out like, can you give me ⁓ credentials? Can you back him up? Nothing. And and again too, ⁓ you know, because he'd appeared in dances with wolves and all of a sudden, you know, ⁓ he's got money, like we'll attach ourselves to him. Again, very poor community. I know this 'cause like I said, my parents traveled when I was eight and ten to South American India. So there was the assumption that my family was had some connection to money. Now with Nathan Chasing Horse too, the fact is like he he was his parents are very poor. One ⁓ one of his followers to date in Las Vegas ⁓ has set up a mortgage paying for a house where Nathan Chasing Horse's parents live. Yes, talk at what, they maybe it's Stockholm Syndrome should they have, the supporter has for Nathan continue to control that Nathan Chasing Horse has over him. Okay. Yes, there but we we go even further. Like when when social media came on, one of my cousins ⁓ started discussing that, you know, mom, my my grandmother and my family were all Dakota. When really she just you know, is faking it, you know, like the stories she's made, even the fact that APTN picked up and started doing her cook cooking show. And of course she had some feedback too and she had to re regr retra revitalize her story to fit her narrative. When the reality is of like the cousins like myself and like that know the aunties and the family because again her father is white. ⁓ the reality of her trying to ⁓ create this narrative that she grew up in an indigenous community which is false. ⁓ the fact that she's talking in Dakota is also like very haphazard in the sense of we'll say mansplaying because the f one of the cousins who speaks so fluently had to be her coach. Now all this putting aside is that she's making money off off of the the indigenous women who actually grew up in indigenous communities who actually have been a part of this gender apartheid or this ⁓ lateral violence or just that whole notion of matriarchy. Now I I'm and I'm gonna put to light this humor, okay? You have to understand my humor in this. It might be dark humor, but ⁓ you know, I I had an incident happen with me with security and I had to write up a report ⁓ because I thought it was all cleared up and ⁓ I spoke to one of the ladies who worked at the pl establishment where I ⁓ was harassed And she says, ⁓ well Marina, you you have to stick up for yourself. She says, I work there part-time. She says, and and you know, we own that. We we run this is our our c this is our ⁓ business. She said, you know, for Sutin this is our business. She said, and you know, when p you have people coming in mansplaying, you know, y that that I should behave a certain way or Sutina people should behave a certain way. She says, you know, we have to be assertive. And now the dark humor part of it, she says, Yeah, I've been suspended a couple of times and I've been been ⁓ you know been asked to come back to work ⁓ at the say you know numerous times as well because of you know her her stance and her her politics and i said well i'm I every time there's an incident I do an incident report and she says you know I she says I tell people you know you can do whatever you want to me she says I'm a I'm a nation member she says I have I have six six sisters okay And she says, like if I can live with six sisters, do you think I you know, that I can put up with you too? She says, No, I I know I have a job, I know I have to work. I you know, and what however you whatever systemic racism or anti oppr the lack of anti oppression training, you know, come on, bite the bullet, I'm here to stay type of attitude. And it's true. You know, in in matriarchy, ⁓ you know, we've we've put a lot up we put a lot we put up with a lot. with our aunties, our sisters, our moms, our grandmothers, ⁓ and we're still here. ⁓ because we're invested in our community, our our ⁓ ⁓ some with our children, some with our nieces, nephews. You know, that's matriarchy. It has nothing to do with ⁓ entitlement or ⁓ l like having control over somebody. Mind you, ⁓ there are some indigenous women who who do suffer under the guise or the guidelines of patriarchy. That that's that's being said in every culture. But the dark humor of it is the reality, like when I talk to my cousin and I said, you know, my my white uncles, I have white cousins who have never stepped in my home. ⁓ I told my cousin, ⁓ I said, But you've come to my home I said, because you live in an indigenous community and and you're welcome in my home And and she said yes, I said yes, but at the same time too, I said it's that systemic racism of ⁓ you know, just ⁓ first cousins acting like they're wasichus or white people, ⁓ even though you can look at them and you can actually see like they're physically brown skin, okay? I mean I have I have ⁓ nieces and nephews who could pass for white, even a sister who could pass for white. ⁓ and my I like I had a great grandmother who had blue eyes. So, you know, when it when we talk about systemic racism and the attitudes of or the lack of when I say one plus one is three, that's what I'm talking about. There's a lack of connection or or the mansplaying or the false narrative that is created to to convince people that that ⁓ one plus one is three. And there's a hell of a lot of people who who actually believe it's three. You know, like they hire ⁓ people like Nathan Chasinghorse ⁓ or my like my cousin who who does a cooking program ⁓ because she's creating a narrative, a false narrative of her origin of story and who why she is who she is. No, th the the systemic racism of her not even being able to ⁓ visit her grandmother because ⁓ the grandmother was white and was ashamed to have indigenous, ⁓ mixed blood child grandchildren. ⁓ stuff like that has a lot carries a lot of shame. I I I I don't wanna say guilt, but I think a lot of shame And I think now that ⁓ these cousins are elderly and they're trying to make some sort of restitution or peace. And and that's where again this equation of one plus one equals eleven comes into play. I I truly believe I truly believe there are a lot of people, not just indigenous people, not women and men. I think there are a lot of people who actually will never find out that the equation is one plus one equals eleven. And I'll s I'll explain that to you later. But but I do ⁓ want want to you know explain too that you know when you when you look at ⁓ any equation like one plus one equals two there there's a status quo like it's comfortable it's it's okay to fit in there. but again too it it all depends on on what it what's the purpose. If if the purpose is nefarious and and is going to hurt people, then ⁓ again I'm what I'm gonna say is like if if any talk about sexual abuse or ⁓ trauma in terms of childhood, ⁓ you know, you don't have to c continue listening. ⁓ But I do hope that you do because and if you're a senior or even older, ⁓ or if your grandma even a young grandma at fifty or in your forties, I I do think that ⁓ understanding just ⁓ the narrative is important. Now, I I'm I'm saying this because I've grown up with white people my entire life. Like I said, I have white uncles and white mixed cousins and even within my own bloodline. Now my my friend and I I trigger her. She's white. I I trigger her. ⁓ i I don't do it intentionally. I I do it because I I need to have space. I need to ⁓ you know, talk about some balance. I have to I have to talk to somebody to just balance out ⁓ my thought process. And and a lot of times when I do talk with her, I I tend to put that privilege in her space when really She's she's a female. And and I've learned a lot from her. Bless her heart. I've learned so much. You know, I I've grown up with white white people my whole life, but but to actually trust a white woman, especially when when she is caring so much of who she is in terms of her privilege and and what privilege looks like from her point of view, talking to me as an indigenous woman. 'Cause a lot of times, like I said, ⁓ people want to make sure that one plus one is three when it comes to me. And ⁓ she you know, she like I said, she has issue with in terms of therapy. But I was explaining this to my cousin, I said because when we we're talking about family issues, like when I have my nieces and nephews, and the same with my cousin with her children. Understand this, I don't have children, but I have nieces and nephews. Excuse me. ⁓ I will not give them advice. My cousin will not give her children advice. And and my friend, my non indigenous friend, in in her her what do they call it? ⁓ she she asked she she's becoming a therapist, her practicum. ⁓ she sits in and listens to her supervisor and her supervisor gives her advice. Like for example, years ago I had a ⁓ forensic nurse as a friend and ⁓ she hooked up with a high school friend who had whose wife had died, made contact and they started dating and then he wanted to go away on a on a retreat to Arizona. And she ⁓ had conf confided in me that she thought sh ⁓ she was an oasis, like just some place where he could rest for a while and then get on with his life. And she took a risk and she did go with him to Arizona. However, ⁓ now I'm talking about this friend, she's passed away. I I know I'm an elder, that's why some of my friends have have passed away. So so sh while in Arizona, he got word that that his ⁓ deceased wife's relative had passed, so they had to leave their vacation and come back into Canada. They went to that relative's funeral. It was the same chapel that his his wife had been buried in the the year before, which triggered him. And as a result, he ⁓ he left my friend, stopped dating her, just totally cut her off. So so ac in actuality she was an oasis. Now, ⁓ why am I bringing this up about about my friend and and ⁓ the the reality of like my friend who who ⁓ says she won't give advice ⁓ because I said, you know, my f my friend was a forensic nurse and ⁓ I used to always talk about ⁓ for decades I'd talk about what happened when I was sexually ⁓ attacked. And ⁓ having talked with her, her name was Barbara, ⁓ she said, Marina, d did they your perpetrator ever ⁓ did you ever tell them he they hurt you? See, she wasn't giving me advice. She was there was an open ended question. Okay, and that's what I'm talking about in terms of conflict resolution and just mediation and negotiating and having a down to earth conversation with another human being without giving advice is is to have open ended questions. Like you p can be a really good therapist, a really good human being by just having open ended questions. And from there I ⁓ you know, I decided and I pro I went, you know, in like a decade of getting this guy ⁓ to serve time. ⁓ That was over probably twenty ⁓ forty years ago. Okay, but ⁓ the reason I'm mentioning ⁓ my friend who's you know critiquing her supervisor, and this is this between her and I, you know, ⁓ I I'm not mentioning my friend's name at all. But ⁓ it's w was the critical thing that she says, she says, ⁓ she's doing more harm to her client than than ⁓ she says, and I don't I have to talk to her about that because you know, ethic ethical wise. And I said, Okay, I said, but really I said, you can't really change her either. And I and I brought up I brought up an acquaintance that I'd known for over thirty years. He's a forensic psychologist. And I've been around a lot of people like not not as I like I've been to therapy as well but I want you to know too I also had ⁓ people who that were I was not their client. I've had discussions about your human behavior. So ⁓ I was talking to my friend and I said, you know, I I said you gotta understand this. ⁓ I said to my friend, I've only known you like I think what, maybe seven years now I think I've known her. See in the forensic psychologist I've I've known for over thirty years and I said to her, I said, ⁓ you know, this is the whole point. I said, one plus one to him was two. I said, but for me, one plus one is eleven and she's going, What do you mean? I said, Well I said, you know, it's it's one thing to to have white privilege and to come in as a therapist, t thinking that ⁓ the advice you're giving is because ⁓ you have white privilege or ⁓ what's that word when you think you're God and God's gift to humanity, like you y your values and beliefs are more ⁓ superior than than ⁓ say someone like me. I I I I don't know if it's what kind of complex it's called, but I was saying to her, you know, for for all these years, I said ⁓ like when my friend and I talk about healthy human sexuality and and again when I talk to my cousin about healthy human sexuality, you know, we're always using this this this metaphor or this concept that, you know, when you we as a woman you have your menstrual period and and you can't shut it off every month. I said for for men, ⁓ it's like, you know, a healthy man has an erection at least five or six times, like while they're sleeping or even when they wake up with an erection. And I I know it might sound really ridiculous, but I'm telling you the truth. I have my female and my matriarchal friends I I've never been married, so I I didn't know this about the male anatomy. I've been sexually active in part of my life, ⁓ a small part of my life. And ⁓ but I didn't understand like when you're in a boyfriend, girlfriend relationship and you sleeping with the individual and you wake up with them. Like I I've never had that. So this whole concept about what is healthy what is a healthy male body in terms of male energy and testosterone is that if ⁓ this function, this male function does not happen throughout the night or in the morning, that is a sign that something is physically the matter with you as a man and you need to get to you need to get checked up. Now with women, ⁓ like again, all the more reason why, you know, this whole testosterone and masturbation and this whole thing about marriage is is very patriarchal. But see for me as a matriarch, I'm going, wait a minute. ⁓ you know, I haven't been sexually active for decades. Women can go without sex for decades. And even in South Korea there's, you know, a whole movement of women who just have refused to get married or have children because of violence, lateral l not only lateral violence, but just gender violence. And and all all the more reason why two different industrial ⁓ societies where there's a hell of a lot of like social media out there and there's pornography and ⁓ sex trafficking and You know, it's it's so blatantly out there. Like I'm so naive. I I keep on saying this until nineteen the nineteen seventies, like nineteen seventy six, I didn't know what porn was. I mean I knew what true romance and magazines were. Okay, so I I know as an elder and if you're listening to me and you're going, ⁓ my goodness, she's so naive. No, ⁓ it's a different generation I'm growing up with. I know children today teenagers and young adults know more about human sexuality. It's it's it's a it it it there there is a reason I'm talking about this in a podcast to bring some light and some attention to why it's important to interact with our young people. Especially like even even for a woman to interact with other women about their sexuality and and why one plus one is eleven and why why it's important that some therapists who believe one plus one is two are doing more damage to their client than than they will ever know because they are so fixated that one plus one is two. Now w what the hell do I mean? Okay, so here's the point. T for for my understanding in healthy human sexuality in terms of balance, for me personally, I want you to understand this is my personal opinion Doesn't mean you have to be converted to the ideology of Marina Crane. This is just my opinion. ⁓ based on you know my own lived experience as an Indigenous woman. I'll just have too. A lot of people have projected a lot of stuff on me, especially white privileged women and men too, that sort of want to put me a little, you know, like, okay, your classification, especially my forensic psychologist acquaintance. Now When I talk about, you know, okay, yeah, women we we can't shut up our menstrual flow, you know, until we get to menopause. But but it's it's that attraction or that ⁓ like when you're sexually aroused by you know, y you you get horny. You see ⁓ you see somebody desirable and you're just like, ⁓ my goodness, all this energetic energy just starts bubbling. And ⁓ but you know, again, it's like a light switch, you can't turn it off. It's it's natural. So it's a natural reaction. Okay, so that's one, the human body response. It's a normal reaction. Men get an erection, women it's you know, it's internalized and it's still there. However, with a woman, it you know, we we don't it's You know, there's so many the the dynamics of a hu female body is so dynamic. You know, with a man it's just, you know, his erection off and on type of thing. But with a woman it it the hormonal every month, like I th I forget if they said how many liters of blood a woman releases throughout her lifetime, ⁓ the fact that she walks around most of the time in shame because she bleeds, ⁓ the whole notion of just like once she's attached to a male that that shame i is taken away because y the male is honoring her her flow, her blood flow. the whole dynamics, even to when she gets pregnant and how her body changes and that her identity is is robbed from her for five years because her whole dynamics of child rearing in matriarchy is tied up with that new identity. And a lot of men don't understand that or respect it. And some men do by choosing not to have children. Now I'm trying to talk about again the the metaphor of number one. That's the sexual reaction when a man or a woman sees somebody they're attracted to. That's we're using the metaphor, the number one. Okay, plus one. What is the other one? Okay, the other one is the unconscious or the relationship the individual has with their id. we'll call the superego or call it whatever psychological term you want to call it. I don't know the name. However, this is I'm using this as an example of what this metaphor for the other one is. ⁓ years ago, and I do say this in my podcast, years ago I I ran into a deserter from the Vietnam War who had ⁓ was originally from California. ⁓ had the best sex ever with this this man. Like again, he this was all balanced through him. He knew all about his male sexuality. Here I am a naive individual. I was at the age of consent. I was eighteen. ⁓ he was twenty-five. again, ⁓ the reality it's like I enjoyed I enjoyed the experience. It wasn't something traumatic He wasn't forcing me to do anything, it was completely consensual. And and this is what I want to get across. A lot of times when ⁓ there's trauma, like either either in childhood, like when I talk to my my white friend who's who's sixty-six, who's gonna become a therapist, when she talks about her trauma, she says, Marina from from eight years old, from ten to fourteen, I had more white men approaching me. as as a child. Now ⁓ and and a lot of times when I'm talking about Nathan Chasinghorse, I trigger her. Now, the whole the whole realm of Nathan Chasinghorse and and just his the evolution of of his his dependency. Not dependency, his addiction. I don't even want to know addiction to. It's it's just horrific. At some point psychologically it's like he th thought about having sex with a child and he did. Unforgivable. Okay, so so ⁓ and and again, like it i he had to have been doing this ten years before I met him. So it would have been in his late teens. He already had a child when he was like I think fifteen or sixteen. I again too, even the gravity of of ⁓ introducing teenagers like that was at least five or ten years before I even met him. So he'd already had some some issues with being sexually aroused. It was one thing for him to have had ten children by the time I met him, but but the reality too is that, you know, in ceremonies he would he would h use this rattle and hit these girls, like my my eight year old niece and then obviously the ⁓ the the one young lady that wren, you know, and then also the other lady Serena, like they he you know, the validation that in ceremony he would scare these kids like he'd hit a rattle over her their heads and they'd be scared because it's dark. The ceremony's held in dark. But he he would get sexually aroused. ⁓ and and that's what led to you know his perversion or his ⁓ a like unforgivable acts towards children, you know, as as young as ten years old. A and not just children too. ⁓ he was also ⁓ he also had a propensity for boys as well. ⁓ and and I think that's a a little harder for women who had followed him for all these years and women who'd had children with him to even comprehend. But ⁓ this this ⁓ individual ⁓ had n has no ⁓ no self respect, no remorse totally, totally d has n the concept of what he's doing, you know, he he he believes his own lives, his his construct. Like that's how prevalent some men are out there. So obviously you're gonna have to understand that when I talk to my sixty six year old white friend and she's had experience with white men and she said she said they're out there marina. She says she says, you know, from from ages ten to fourteen, she said, I was the most vulnerable in my sexual life. ⁓ and that's why, like, for me when I do these podcasts and I'm putting the alert out there, it's not just indigenous women. It's it's women across the board. And it's the attitude that as we're developing into sexual human beings, the kind of education that men or boys are given when it comes to women or girls and as well as girls understanding of their sexuality, their their their sexual development. And and also the whole premise too of like ⁓ like safety and and ⁓ how do you disclose and ⁓ again even the reality of of the damage See, when when I talk to my sixty six year old friend, a lot of her the behavior and trauma she experienced as a white girl, I've never experienced. Like I I'll say to her, ⁓ I've had a man touch me, fondled me twice. ⁓ I pushed his hand away, d he didn't force himself on me. As soon as I pushed his hand away, that was it. For for for my friend it it it didn't happen that way. You know, she said I'd be hitchhiking at, you know, twelve years old. Trucker would pick me up. I have no memory of what happened or how I got home. ⁓ things like that that happen to children, especially I mean all ch girls or boys, that memory is suppressed so deep in their s like in their id or or the trauma. And and this is why I'm saying one plus one is two. that th they live a life, they get married, have children, and then and under patriarchy. Now I'm saying one plus one is two in patriarchy. Okay. Why am I explaining one plus one is three? Here's or is eleven, sorry, is ⁓ okay. When I talk to my sixty six year old friend and I talk to her about the first like being sexually attracted to someone and talking to them. you know, just negotiating mediation, just talking to a man you find sexually attractive, doesn't mean you're gonna act on it. I mean, once you act on it then then ⁓ you know, you have to deal with the consequences being a consenting adult, providing the two people that are t having the discussion are both consenting adults. So so where's this other one from? Okay, I'm explaining to my friend I said to her, you know, I my my s ⁓ forensic psychologist friend, all he would deal with would be that one. That all he could focus on was like, ⁓ this marina has had this trauma. In other words, my psych forensic psychologist friend had assumed my sexual life was like my 66-year-old white friend. And this is what I tried to explain to my white friend. I said he the whole concept of of ⁓ like he you know, he wanted to do cross cultural books, like really, you know, intrigued, like I was I was this phenomena, like like there's something the matter with Marina because of you know, one plus one doesn't e it I'm trying to get her to believe that one plus one is two because again it's all patriarchy. I'm explaining to my friend no, no, no, no, no. I said It's it's difficult for men to to talk to a woman because there's always this concept of like what like ⁓ like the the the boundaries. ⁓ like I'm married. Yeah, okay, you're married, I'm not gonna jump your bones. ⁓ you know, I'm I I have these feelings ⁓ based on whatever I think or whatever you think, it's it's still a natural thing. ⁓ I'm not in limerence, I don't have this trauma. But for whatever reason the d dialogue happens and that's just the attraction. This other one that I'm talking about has to do with memory and ⁓ the s the memory, the psychological ⁓ individual, the identity of the child. So so when I talk to my sixty-six year old friend, I said, Look, You know, when I met ⁓ Wachashtawashteya, I said, Yes, one, I was tr I was this sexual energy. I said I didn't really understand it. I said, because I'm not around men. So even when I went to the airport and I saw women looking at him, I'm going, Why are they looking at him? Because he's a alpha male, like he's got this masculine energy. See, I haven't been around that. Like I'm an elder. I'm around I've been around women and matriarchy my whole life. Then we go into restaurants in Las Vegas and people would look at him too. And going, Okay, there's this I thought I I thought I was the only one that sensed this energy. Of course, naive and as you know, as elderly and vulnerable as I am, I'm I'm thinking, What? Okay, so you know, and I explained to him, you know, I I appreciated what he was doing and and I wanted to really ⁓ be open and and available for for whatever purpose I was there for, because I believed I really owed him more than just gratitude. ⁓ I I I needed to help him what for whatever way, I spiritually, physically, whatever. and and, you know, for me it was whatever he needed for closure. I didn't even know it was closure for him. I was more in the sense like, ⁓ He needs to know the gravity of what he has done in terms of ⁓ holding space for the victims, indigenous female victims that that really nobody cared about. No, I and I I don't want you to feel pity for me at all, in any in any means at all. But but the reality of it is like I've grown up around a city with white people my entire life. And and throughout my life, even with with the forensic psychologist, throughout those decades that I was friends with him, when my family member died or somebody in my community died and and ⁓ say I had white friends, not one of them had ever come out to my community to attend the funeral. Now can you believe that? Like people that I shared my old most intimate thoughts and understanding ⁓ when it came to me grieving never came out. See, that's where the other one comes into play. Once we have the ⁓ the sexual attraction, the other one is this this deep I ⁓ identity of of who I was as a child or who I was as a cont consenting child, or that like the the ⁓ trauma if i if like I was was I so compli compliant that I could not say no. Some some of the really deep ⁓ psychological impacts of of not wanting to feel the emotion or r revisit that memory, even if it's fifty five years old, the the courage it takes to visit that, knowing that you're giving yourself permission. See, if if I'd had so much trauma, like my sixty six year old friend, ⁓ I wouldn't have been able to to visit that. And I and I I tell my friend that. I said, No I I can visit that and this is what Wachashtawashte did for me. So you you have to understand, he spent his own money to to to come and to come with me down to Las Vegas. I I've I've had friends my whole life, white people, who've never even done stuff like that for me. Now I I'm I'm not saying ⁓ you know I'm falling in love with what Josh D wash did. No, this I'm I'm reflecting to say, like, look, I I can't believe this. How come I never saw this? Well, because I was so focused on having closure around Nathan Chasing Horse and what I was going to do with my podcast to to understand the gravity of what it is to to be in a healthy and to be healthy a healthy humose sexual person who has an identity who can say, ⁓ I I'm indigenous ⁓ and I don't want I want to keep these boundaries in place so I'm not I'm not absorbing y the projection you have on me in terms of your patriarchy. Even though Wachoshuachte is raised in patriarchy. And and the the reality of it is is too, yes, I I totally understand that, but it but the re reality of it is like when when I was sexually aroused, ⁓ I didn't act on, you know, y saying to him, ⁓ you know, I I I'm horny around you. That would have been totally inappropriate. Rather I I I every time I would ⁓ have these feelings, I would have to bring up that emotion of of this man, this draft dodger from California that I had ⁓ had this beautiful experience with. I brought up that that memory. So so that I I would say, no, I've lived through that. I've I've experienced that that joy. ⁓ I don't need Wachashta Vashteya because I've experienced something that that would last me a lifetime. And I had to walk away from that too. Okay, so so all that was was the metaphor for one. So you have one plus one equals eleven. In matriarchy. Now I I know I'm just using matriarchy as a as a metaphor, 'cause it happens with all human beings. If if you're both a couple and you're you're both balanced so that one plus one is eleven then you're not you're not like more patriarch or ⁓ more matriarchal. You're meeting each other at at a balanced level because because you've balanced your you've balanced your sexual urges, the the reac how you reactive when you're sexually aroused. And you're you're also ⁓ being aware of that that memory, that sexual and identity from from childhood, ⁓ as well as being a teenager. You're you're bringing forward that memory of ⁓ like what it was to be a child, like that cons but at the same time understanding consent. 'Cause like I said, I was ninete I was eighteen. I was I I knew what cass consent was, even though my brain was still developing until twenty five. But you know, I I'm what I'm trying to say is that it took my relationship, we'll call it a situational ship with with Cashtawashte, for me to to put boundaries in place as to what one plus one equals eleven. I cannot have one plus one equal two, because that would mean either matriarch or patriarchy would be offset. ⁓ it would mean, like say with my forensic psychologist, you know, that h there was there'd always be something the matter with Marina Crane. ⁓ because I could never revisit my childhood ⁓ in terms of trauma. He always had to have his therapeutic hat on around me. And this is what I explained to my sixty six year old friend. I said, When even though he's not giving me advice, he did not allow me we did not have There was no relation situational ship where where I was able to to sexually ⁓ feel that that ⁓ that memory of of gratitude or love that I experienced with with this draft dodger from California from the Vietnam War. His name was Mike. See, what ⁓ my forensic psychologist Paul, even though I've known him for decades, could not take his therapeutic hat off around me. And I said that to my my friend, my sixty six year old white friend. I said, I understand when you say you cannot give advice to your your clients because you'll see how damaging it is. I said, because that's my point. My forensic acquaintance ha has done more damage to indigenous people because of his his attitude and his situational ship when it comes to intimacy. He cannot do it. For for whatever reason he has in his own background, his own childhood. See it's one thing for me to say, ⁓ I know what one plus one is eleven because I cause I know it has to have balance with the attraction as well as the memory of sexuality. t that develops who that it is, that identity. Now, again, I'm using some words that are psychological terms, but but ⁓ but I'm trying to use mathematical equations as metaphors as well. Because a lot of times when when people have issues with identity and especially have the red flags, there there has to be this one plus one equals three. And and if they convince you that then, you know, you can you can live with that person for decades and realize, ⁓ my goodness ⁓ I I didn't realize that one plus one isn't three. Then you get into a point where you say, Okay, well one plus one is two then, isn't it? And for a while you think, okay, one plus one is two. Then you realize, ⁓ my goodness, ⁓ I don't need to ⁓ be I like I just need to be alone in my space, understand who I am, and know who like know like yourself sexually, then you know that one plus one is eleven. I'm only using those figuratively because The number one is one stroke down, right? So it's one and one. You put those two letters together, it's the num it looks like eleven. So so basically, you know, you have to have that balance. And and I'm just grateful that Wachashtawashth had I don't want to use the word patience because I do know that he came with luggage. ⁓ like I like I tell him, I have white uncles. You know, I I have oodles of first cousins whose fathers are white. ⁓ I've been around a lot of ⁓ mixed blood and I I don't call them Metis 'cause Metis is a different a different indigenous category. There there are there are indigenous people who have been First Nations whose whose fathers are white. and and those systemic racism, it's ⁓ they're they're ashamed. They're ashamed to be a r ⁓ you know, s seen with an indigenous person. And and Wachashthawashte, I mean, you know, he he did he he you know, he had a camera, took pictures all the time and that was his his ⁓ shield. We'll call it, ⁓ you know, a superhero always has a shield. Well that was his shield. Protected him. ⁓ gave him some some boundaries like a phys like a the camera. But yet at the same time it also ⁓ that that whole shame part of being with an indigenous woman, that that also took him away from that. ⁓ because he didn't he was you know, he was there but he wasn't there. And and I don't think he he he he really fully grasped it or understood it. But like I I jokingly say to him, I you're just fortunate I I have white uncles. You know, because, you know, I I've I've known how uncomfortable they've they've felt around me. So But again too, the i i the experience needed and had to be done. And and I think I'm being quite honest about it because I'm not I I don't pussyfoot around who I am. And and when it comes to other indigenous women or men who who tried to mansplay me, ⁓ try to talk to me about what it is to be indigenous from their point of view, a point of view where they've never lived in an indigenous community, a point of view where they've been in denial that their one parent is racist. Or for that whole point that they're they haven't come to terms with the fact that they've been ashamed to be indigenous at some point in their life. The majority of times that I've had to struggle with has to do with my sexual identity because I didn't have the boundaries and I allowed a hell of a lot of white people to project their shit onto me, even though I didn't have that childhood trauma they had. And that's the danger. of pe of people who try to be therapists to come into indigenous communities. I've seen it my entire life. Like with boarding school, with with ⁓ the Anglican church, with Moral Rearmament, with Mormonism and with Nathan Chasinghorse. The the whole concept, that whole concept of of not having healthy boundaries. It's important it's important to have those established. It's there to protect your heart, mind, spirit, and soul. For for ages and understanding human development and and embracing it. I I know what I'm contributing to the world in a sense because I'm trying to talk to you as an elder. I I I talk to my cousins, ⁓ you know, the the realities of, you know, just having relatives who are ashamed or who were ashamed in childhood of being indigenous. And now that they're seniors and elderly and making little money 'cause they're saying, ⁓ I've done this and that, yes, you have. But you're still in patriarchy. ⁓ yes, well I have my children, yes. But the reality of it is you're trying to come back into an indigenous community and for whatever political reasons, if all of a sudden you're brown nosing the chief in counsel because you you you want a job, And yet the reality of it is like there are so many educated and knowledge keepers who've lived in indigenous communities that have that have made their communities who they are today. And for some political reason we have people who are ashamed to be indigenous at some point in their life come in and mansplay, manipulate and get their way. I still fight it every day in my life. I I I tell people I I don't know some of these in indigenous people, I don't know their background, but when they're working in my community and they have a lot of hatred in their heart and they're projecting their stuff onto me, either because they they're the whatever issue they have with their parent, their grandmother, their sister, their daughter, their cousin, female, they're projecting it onto me as a female elder. So when I have misogyny like that, people who hate hate the fact that I'm a woman, that I have a voice, and and they want to quiet me, they want to discredit me, they want to mansblame me, they want to lie about me, they wanna c produce lateral violence towards me, those are people who truly and believe that one plus one is three. So for all that, you know, when Nathan Chasinghorse came into the community ⁓ I knew one plus one was three when it came to him. It took it took a while, ⁓ one plus one equal two for me to like I I'd gone through therapy, I'd studied psychology, ⁓ did a so much in terms of matriarch in matriarchy to protect my nieces and nephews and help my community to understand what one plus one is eleven. So I hope that helps in the sense that I didn't confuse you, that there is balance between the present and the past, and that and that you're all together whole holistic as one human being. And when you walk in this life you meet another human being. So you have two people facing each other. those two people together, standing together, look like the number eleven. So I I don't know if I explained that as much as I could, but at the same time too, I also want to close close off my podcast to to to, you know, understand the gravity of my life. I've grown up my entire life around white people. being bust into the city, having white friends, going to university, having white roommates, having white cousins and white uncles, you know, going into the city all the time, even having, you know, white friends. The indigenous part of me, my identity of who I am, and how I interact with with white people i is my own personal journey. If I can so much as help ⁓ white people not be afraid See, it it breaks my heart that I've gone through so many white friends when when my brothers have died, when my grandparents have died, when my mother and father have died, and not one Not even Paul, who I knew for over thirty years. Not one not even my acquaintance who I knew since elementary school. Came out and sat beside me to help me grieve. Not once were they there for me. Even for the one woman I went to high school with who was just like, ⁓ yeah, Nathan Chasing Morris. ⁓ I can help you out with the website, I could help you with this and that. Not once in high school did she ever admit that maybe it was her grandmother or her great grandmother that was indigenous. But now that she's got her own white company, she is really owning the fact that she's got indigenous roots. Now even her Off and on throughout the decades I'd meet up with her, maybe for a year we'd c talk, and then she'd disappear. Well, she's done that again. But it's people like her, you know, that think that they have some connection. When they don't even have the guts or the courtesy or even the balls to come out and support me when someone has died. And it shouldn't even be with death too, it should be with some sort of celebration as well. But that's the critical part about being indigenous is knowing that there are so many non indigenous people who only believe one plus one is two. And for them, you know, what can I say in terms of basic psychology? You need to go out and understand who you are. Because one plus one is eleven. I'm one and you're one. When we stand together it should see eleven. But when you're mansplaying me or you have systemic racism or you don't have the guts to even be with me when I'm grieving, or when I need your support, then then all you see is one plus one is two. That I have some sort of deep psychological problem that that you could never even comprehend, so therefore why even try? See, you don't you can't hold space for me 'cause I I I bring up the challenge and I and I'm questioning you. And and I'm talking to, you know, people like whoever you are that may be non indigenous. And that you've had fear of talking and open to an indigenous person. So for whatever reason for whatever reason you do have that fear, follow your gut. I'm not saying, you know, ⁓ you know, be one plus one equals three. ⁓ by no means. You do more damage than you do good. But at some point in your life, as you're living before you leave this world, you oughta know one plus one is eleven. And in the whole scheme of things, you know, for me, Wachashtawashte, even if he might not understand the concept what I'm saying because he's patriarchal, he will always be patriarchal. One plus one for me is eleven for him as well. I'm so much grateful for this perfect stranger to to to come and support me. when I've tried for decades and even years to have somebody come with me to sub to to be there to support the victims of Nathan Chase horse. I put it on my podcast trying to get people to understand This isn't you know a fairy tale. Our children you should not trust nobody with your children. However they pr betray portray themselves. And the scary part is because non-indigenous people, because white people are patriarchal, the the the gravity of how many perpetrators, men out there that you can't even comprehend, that you've got to project all your insecurities on minorities. That should have some reflection on who you believe your s your society is and what civilization means to you. 'Cause it sure as hell doesn't mean the same thing to me. So understand that. I've been around white people my entire life. If I can help non Indigenous people to understand the gravity of what happened to them as in childhood, and that and that it's okay to forgive yourself that you don't have the ability to revisit that that emotion. It's okay. It's not your fault. That's patriarchy for you. But as a matriarch, looking after children, making sure the community's gonna thrive isn't the same. So for all all those who can't who don't have the ability to do that, seek out adopt adopt friends, adopt community. We're we're we're we're not individuals. We we are communal we are we are ⁓ collective and we are holistic as a hu as human beings. Patriarchy has just separated us. And and it has to do with control and ⁓ having men control women. U and you know, if if ⁓ you believe, you know, like that ⁓ you know, what did they say? ⁓ if a ma if a woman marries that means she ha isn't ⁓ has no say over you know, she always has to have sex sex with her partner. ⁓ and that and that if you don't have sex with your your partner then ⁓ the partner goes out and cheats, it's it's the woman's fault. Well that that's patriarchy. ⁓ that's servicing the man's biological function. A and again, ⁓ you know, if if a man can't go without sex, ⁓ then you know who who are they who are they targeting? The most vulnerable. Don't trust nobody with your children. So I'm I'm really grateful for my non-Indigenous friends who had the courage to step forward and talk about their childhood. Upper middle class, middle class. I've been around ⁓ high-risk white teenagers when I was a teenager. So yes, there's the dynamics of different cultures, but also like the cultural part of my identity and You know, who my who my my my mothers, my aunts, my grandmothers. I used to say to my mother, You you've had it hard. Being taken away at age five into Indian residential school until you were sixteen. I said, But mom, your ⁓ your my grandmother even had it harder. Dying of cancer without any morphine, nothing, until she's skin and bones, dying in pain. The starvation. Even my great grandmother as a child running away from Minnesota, coming in through Montana, up into Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba. Having to be worried that a white settler's gonna kill you if you're pregnant, gut you and take your baby out of your stomach, take your scalp. Even my great great grandmothers. So yes, if you want to romanticize ⁓ genocide and you want to wear a ribbon skirt, or be proud that you have an indigenous name 'cause some indigenous person gave it to you, by all means. One plus one equals three for you. And maybe you're in a stage where one plus one is two. I don't know. But for me, the reality of how and what's out there for our children, especially with social media and the lack of interaction between ⁓ adults and children and just having conversation, just interacting with young people. People having respect for each age level. That's what matriarchy is, and I think we need to be a little bit more aware of it. We need to we need to be a little bit more ⁓ compassionate and understanding. But at the same time, you know, always remember trust nobody with your child, even if they're working on a youth program. Always always be there for your child. I was saying to my cousin about her grandson. I said, I've always admired your grandson. I always will. His talent, his compassion. I've met so many young people in my life, so talented, and then at the same time it breaks my heart when I find out they've they've killed themselves. So yeah, I hate to be a downer, but ⁓ hey, it's my podcast. I can do whatever I want, when I want and how I want. And understand this, I'm being cheeky, okay, I'm being cheeky. Because like t twenty years ago when I did my podcast Little did I know there were people actually reading it. And I will post this on my podcast as well in written form. But ⁓ no, I really appreciate everybody or anybody who even drops in to listen. And the majority I think are listening on YouTube. ⁓ some like I know I'm getting ⁓ your European audience as well and and that's good. I know I'm I'm getting Americans too on some of my platforms. And like I said, even twenty years ago I I rarely got emails and some of some of the phone calls I did get. But again, you know, I'm I'm ⁓ you're able to reach out to me or even if you want to have a discussion on my podcast with me, I'm open to it. ⁓ it's Marina underscore tsudina T S U U T I N A at Hotmail dot com. I'm on TikTok, I'm on Instagram, I'm on Facebook with various names. And what else? hey. Podcasts. Have a good day. Enjoy your Sunday. And hey, it's spring. Start planting. I know in the northern the northern parts of Canada, I mean in the northern parts of the North America it's still too cold to put out our flowers. But I know in some places like BC and and obviously in Utah the flowers are blooming. Okay, enough said, and again, more power to those those non indigenous men who have a curiosity and who just want to hold space, who have the ability to face the challenges of someone like me. ⁓ and who can bear witness to the injustice of indigenous women and girls and children and two spirited. Bless your hearts. You're out there. I know you're out there. I just never thought I would ever meet such a person as what Joshua Ste and I'm I'm totally grateful. it makes it makes ⁓ having co of s having it to end the relationship with Paul, ⁓ all all the more worthwhile. And and to renew my friendship with my my sixty-six year old friend and and other other ⁓ elderly indigenous women who I've known since I was a teenager and others who I've known since childhood. My my Indian name, my I shouldn't say Indian name, my community name growing up as a child was Happan. ⁓ it wasn't until I was five years old when I went to school that they said my name was Marina. As the white teacher said it, this is your Christian name. Your Christian name is Marina. Your Indian name and she used the word Indian is Hapon. Talk about mansplaying at age five. Or systemic racism, call it what you may. Okay. Again, I w I'm not gonna say it a third time. Have a good day.