Latest / Tilly Talks Tech / WE'RE NOT JUST ZOMBIES!!! The Truth About Being Limb-Different In Film | Angel on Tilly Talks Tech

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WE'RE NOT JUST ZOMBIES!!! The Truth About Being Limb-Different In Film | Angel on Tilly Talks Tech · Tilly Talks Tech

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: There are some people who don't just talk about change, they embody it.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Angel Gefrey is one of them.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: She's an actress, activist, and bionic child like that at every old school idea about disability.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Particularly disability in film.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: You might have seen it in the Hunter games or on stage at the STX SW, but what's most powerful is what she does off-screen.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Using her voice to show the big difference to hide itself to own.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: And now, in order for a difference awareness mode, she started her very own series, Disability Role Goal, which despotlights incredible disabled actors and calls out some shocking realities of inclusivity and media.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Hey everyone, welcome to Tilly Talks Tech.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Telly, I am your host.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: On this podcast, we talk about all things, well, this month, all things, limb difference, awareness month, or limb different, spotlighting.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: But we're also all about human potential, technology, innovation, the rest of it.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like I said, this month we are spotlighting limb different individuals, and this girl, I feel like we're best friends already.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like she knows me, I know her, but we've never actually linked, which blows my mind.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: She's an actress, an activist, a consultant, making sure everything is done right in the film industry.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: I freaking love it.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Please welcome to the podcast, Angel Jeffrey.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Hi Angel, welcome to TwikTalks Tech.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for taking the time to sit down with me.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to have you on the podcast.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: You've been one of those names that we've been thinking about since this podcast began, which was six months ago now.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Your name has like come up on this podcast before you've even been on it.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's how like influential you are with within the Lim Different community.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: For people who don't know what it is that you do, what are you passionate about?
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: What are you all about?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, first and foremost, right now, I just describe myself as an actor.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I do predominantly, but I mean I'm also a Limb Difference advocate.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a consultant, uh prosthetics enthusiast.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: I've been wearing a prosthesis since I was six weeks old.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I started wearing my first myoelectric.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I got my first passive device at six weeks, my first myoelectric at four months.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been doing the whole thing for my whole life.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: I was charging, you know, my arm before everybody was charging their phones.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: And uh that kind of like led me down this path of being like super interested in tech and super interested in and you know how I can customize and how I can make my hand my own, and and that idea of like who am I and all the different people that you could be as a limb different person.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's when I started getting into acting and you know, having that idea of like I could be all of these different people with a prosthesis, which or with the limb difference in general, even without a prosthesis.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Consulting is something else I do, which I really enjoy.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: I've worked for a lot of like video games and TV shows and films and tabletop games, like Dungeons and Dragons and you know, Cyberpunk and like uh so I've gotten to do a lot of consulting, you know, a wide variety of things, but acting is you know the main goal.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's actually so good as well, though, that like people are consulting about that stuff now because like you are the expert in that field, and like it's the stuff that happens behind the scenes, like in the process of making a project that makes it so authentic and like really represent that community.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like we all have you to thank for like these pulling those strings behind the scenes, you know.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: When it comes to like acting, because that is like the main thing that you say that you love and you do, and you've got your brand new series disability role call, which is all about spotlighting disabled actresses and actors as well.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: When it came to acting, is that something like you always knew when that you wanted to do when you were younger?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Or was it something that you thought I want to do, but I'm not sure how my limb difference is gonna hold me back, maybe?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think being born with a limb difference, and I don't know if you feel this way too, just be having your limb difference most of your life, like yeah, you kind of are put in a position to perform, right?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody's gonna look at you.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: They're already already looking at us, and you kind of can take one or two routes.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Either you can try to blend in or you're like accept that you're gonna stand out.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think I kind of took the accept that I'm gonna stand out of the and I loved it, but yeah, like it was one of those things that I always was really interested in, but I never saw it as a career, as sure you're familiar with.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like there just wasn't anyone else who looked like us.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and if they did, it was sad or it was a plot point, it was scary, it was Captain Hook, it was, you know, the fugitive, it like the scary bad guy.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like there really wasn't any type of good representation of me being like, yeah, I want to do that.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I get you.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: So the first time that I started out, all the old ones were like fleshy colored, right?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's just yeah, what existed, that's just what they offered us.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there wasn't the option to look different or be cool, right?
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it kind of was one of those things where I was like waiting for that to happen.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: And the first um my electric prosthesis that came out that was multi-articulating, I immediately got it.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I love this, this is so cool.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: It was I looked like I was wearing like a boxing glove.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was like, I don't care, I want it.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was like, oh my gosh, like can't lift my hand above my head, you know.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I didn't like how it looked, so I switched over to wearing this like cosmetic prosthesis at the time, no function, so like straight mannequin hand.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because they told me that the small was coming out.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: They were like, oh yeah, the small is coming.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, like six years later, I wore this fleshy colored arm and I would be on set and I would just pretend to have two hands because I knew that they weren't there, they didn't want me there to stand out, right?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't booked as an actor, I was booked as an extra.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I knew that I would, or I felt that I would like pull attention if I was a limb different person or they wouldn't have cast me.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I had an experience on the set of this film called The Green Lantern.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: I worked on it, and um, I was supposed to be a student in class, and the day of shooting, the someone like a PA came in the room, round like round up like seven girls and like brought us into a different room.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, what's going on?
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'd maybe done like extra a handful of other times before this.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then someone else, like a second AD, second assistant director, came in, picked like four of us and waited in another room.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, what are we doing?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then the director comes in, looks us up and down, and then this says her and walks out.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Me.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, What am I doing?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then they rushed me away to like hair and makeup, to change my clothes.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: It was still an extra role, but it was a very featured extra role.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: I was actually featured more in this than I have been in some of my principal roles.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember going like so excited, couldn't wait to do it.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then I looked down and I was like, I have one arm.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: He doesn't know.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because at the time I had a long sleeve shirt on and they were changing me into something different.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I went to the I went to the production assistant.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, hey, I need to talk to the director, which is an absurd thing for an extra to say.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um and he was like, Yeah, okay.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I was like, I have one arm, and then he was like, I'll be right back.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh my goodness.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: The director was um Martin Campbell, he's this uh guy from New Zealand.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: He did like Casino Royale and Goldeneye and all these big films.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um and he came in the room and I was like freaking out, right?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm doing like I'm doing like talking about that.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I want to be an actor my whole life and I understand how this works, and I really think I can do a good job, but like I totally understand if you want to pick somebody else, because like maybe I'll be distracting, or you know, maybe I won't be able to open the door the right way.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've like run down this hall, swing open the door, run in late for class.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: The teacher had to call me out for being late, um, all these things.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: And he's just like staring at me, like, and then I realized he has no idea what I'm talking about.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I have one arm, and he was like, Okay, have you ever been late for class before?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yeah, and he was like, then I don't see why you couldn't have one arm and be late for class, which I knew, right?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right, but like never had like a director or somebody who was like big kind of like put that in my head.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I did the scene and it went really well.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: He would try to toss me a line, Tilly, and I was so like new and green that I didn't understand.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: He like pulled me aside and he was like, Angel, if you were late for class, would you say anything to your teacher?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like actor mode, and I was like, No, no, I would try to like sneak in as quiet as possible and like not say anything.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then later on, I was like, he was trying to give me a line, like no man, god damn it.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't mess that one up.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: It took me like four or more years to get my first line because like after that I went and got an agent and kind of just really started putting time and effort into it because I actually was like reminded that there were people out there who got it, and like a lot of people don't, but there are people who do, and we just have to find those people.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that I bet that was like genuinely such a stressful moment when they're changing you and you're about to do this scene, like that's why you can't hide this thing about you anymore.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: And like, I really like I'm empathetic about that feeling of like, wait, they're gonna find out I've I'm missing a limb and they're gonna drop me.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: The fact that that was like your first thought to be like, they're gonna pick another one of these girls for that role because you've never seen that and never been like treated as kind of an equal in that sense, is like outrageous.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so glad the end of that story was him being like so the freak war.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was really scared you were gonna be like, and he said, get out, and that started my villain arc, and I would respect that not from him, but I'd respect you for your villain arc too.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: But like, thank god.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: I have so many other stories that can lead to a villain arc, but somehow I've stayed stayed towards the light at this point.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: She was in Barbie, which was super fun, but she's done like zombie roles too.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't I ask you about that typecast?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I guess I was just wondering a little bit of like your experience in those settings and how that made you feel as somebody who wants to do more in acting.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's been one of those things which I heard like Gracie talk about it and like some of the other people about like how the like newer roles that are coming out are so much more well-rounded and like people that just exist.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the amount of like veterans I've gone out for, or people in the hospital, or someone who was currently injured, I've played zombies, you know, like just the gamut of what you people think that an amputee should play, like, you know, or someone with Olympics.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: And that's always been like super frustrating.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, like I'm an actor and I need to make a living.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: And like thank you so much for the job and the opportunity to play.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't mind playing a veteran, but like to play only a veteran is really frustrating because that's people take their ideas from media, right?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: So if they only see veterans in the amputees on TV that are like limb different, like or that are there, then the people come to me all the time and they're like, Are you a veteran?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, what about me gave veteran besides my arm?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, speak for real guys.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is there something about me?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, definitely can't ever wear camo.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: If I wear olive green, it's over.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's over.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for your service.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, see and Gracie's role in like autumn and um a lot of doing disability roll call, like you said, like the the series that I started.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think the whole point for me was that when we get pushback, um, I'm on the SAV SAGAFTRA performers with disabilities committee.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, like the union here in the states for actors.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: When we get pushback, a lot of times, like they're like, Oh, we cast this non-disabled actor for this part.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: And most of the time we'll know if they looked or not, right?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: We'll we'll know, we'll have the breakdowns.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: I would have gotten it from my agent if it's a limb different character or my friends who are wheelchair users.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we would know.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they'll be like, Oh, we looked.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, well, for one, you didn't, you didn't look.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, Oh, well, we we we just couldn't find anyone that was as good as we wanted them to be.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Or like you'll see pushback from the public.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: You'll I know, right?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: You'll see pushback from the public where um well, maybe there wasn't somebody who could like do that role because like they have CP and like CP is really hard to have, and they couldn't do that role.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, I don't know, they didn't look.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of times casting directors will say they can't find the people.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I just got tired of it.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: I got tired of that pushback online because it's like it was the general population kind of just saying, Well, maybe they're not there, and it's like, well, you should know that they are, and you know what, it's their job to look.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: So if I'm just gonna like I honestly kind of don't care, like if the series like pops off, like the point is like I want it to be that there's like you can come here and see like all of these people have existed, they are trained, they are working actors, they work in film and television and commercials.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like the people are been working, they know how to do their job, and you didn't even ask them to audition.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, like time's up, like it's over.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you guys don't get to make these excuses anymore about why you're not at least auditioning people.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I can't really defeat the argument when they say, like, oh, we picked the better person for the role, whatever, whatever.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's subjective.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: But at the very least, like, you can you can pretend to do your job.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's so true.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a really good insight from you guys and your community just to like make people aware, like, no, the this community weren't approached for the role.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because only you guys can say that.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: You're who we're hoping they approach with the rules, and for that community to be like, we didn't hear niche about this, is like, okay, explain that one.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things that I want to talk about coming up is uh, did you play The Last of Us, the game, The Last of Us?
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Not fully, but I've played bits.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: So in the second one, spoiler.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, obviously they started the second season in the second season, but the this part of the game they didn't get to.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: There is a Lim Different character.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the character loses her arm within, I don't know, the first five minutes she's on screen.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, she is an amputee the whole time throughout the rest of the game.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and guess what?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't cast a Live Different Person uh or an amputee for the role.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Now, obviously, I don't know how far back in the history they're gonna go.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, maybe they're gonna have this character have quite more, like more of an arc than the game does and show a lot more of her history.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, sure, sure.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: But like when they talk about like, okay, well, we'll just CG out her CGI out her arm the rest of the time.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you also could have hidden her arm in the beginning or CGI in an arm.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: When they act like that's harder, it's not, it's just a different skill set.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like get better, like get better at doing your job if you're saying like that's hard, it's like you're more familiar with doing the other thing.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's crazy.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and it's like there's minimal characters who have a limb different, you know.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I feel like as a limb different person, if I was in the position where I was like, man, I really want to be an actor or an actress, but like I don't feel like this this is like this industry is for me, basically, because of all these reasons people come up with of why like limb different people or disabled people don't make sense in that industry.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: If I knew there was like a show coming out with a limb different character, I'd be like, you know, like this is my time to shine, let's go.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess it's just so disappointing to then, you know, have that specific role go to somebody who could do any other role because we do get singled out.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, we need writers to write these roles for disabled people because unfortunately, there's really not that many casting directors that will call in disabled actors for roles that don't specifically say disabled.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's a casting director named Erica Bream, who's in the Southeast, who I absolutely love, and I've done a lot of classes with her.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: And without having auditioned for several disability-specific roles for her, like I don't know if she would have gotten to know me as an actor and like my skills, because she just brings me in for anything now.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like if she thinks that like Angel can play the woman in the record store or Angel can play, you know, this cashier, Barista, whatever, she'll bring me in for it.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of the casting directors are like, well, I'm not gonna bring them something they didn't ask for, a disabled person, you know what I mean?
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh no, like like they couldn't play the girlfriend, the mom, or whatever.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, like we don't do all these things in real life anyway, as disabled people.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: But for some reason, there's like this this like cog that doesn't click, like, oh, why couldn't she?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: Which is the reason that like when we're in the grocery store and we're just like buying milk or something, and someone comes up, they're like, Wow, it's so great that you're out.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, why do you think that I wouldn't be?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it's because we don't we don't exist in media doing those things, you know what I mean?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, they don't show us just having a normal life, they only show us when we're at the hospital or sad or depressed or like that kind of stuff, or like go going through it, whatever it is, you know?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: And like it's frustrating.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's so frustrating that you actually make you hysterical.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, dude, like we're not like aliens, dude.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: We're literally like every other human.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we do the grocery shop, we have kids, we take them to school, like we eat.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: You ever heard the you're so brave comment?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: The you're so brave blows my mind.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, you too.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: I love I love to say that back, but they're like, wow, it's really great that you're out.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you too.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I just keep walking.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: With disability role call, love that you're bringing attention to this calls.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything in your research that you found like, or just your experience as an actress that you found just like legit shocking?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like if people knew this, they would get their act together.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's a good question.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: The amount of actors who didn't get to audition, or it was like almost given as an excuse for why they couldn't audition for a project, because it was up a flight of stairs.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, literally, there are people that I know that are wheelchair users and like friends of mine who had to audition in like alleyways, or like someone offered to come downstairs and like carry their wheelchair up the stairs, which, like, one, I don't know you, stranger, who's now carrying my entire body.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: And like, you know what I mean?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's scary.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't want someone to do that to me.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, finding out all these stories of people um who had like bad experiences, you know.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but obviously there are plenty of good experiences, and like I've really gotten to highlight a lot of people, like Gracie, like Autumn, who had uh there's someone coming at Zyra, who um have had really great experiences, but it's truly because of the riders.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: I know we say all day, like I would love to be included for roles that have nothing to do with my arm, but unfortunately, when we do go out for those roles, they almost forget that we are disabled, which like people are like great.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, no, no, but I still have one arm.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no matter like I still do, and it's still gonna have to be a consideration when you're planning things, and and it's like some of the time I'm like, oh, I can do everything that everyone can, unless they have a very specific vision of what they want, right?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um I recently worked on a show, deciding how much of this I want to say.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: I recently worked on a show, and I was booked not because of my arm, was not in the breakdown, was not anything, which is cool, right?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Great, wonderful.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, director knew, everybody knew.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: On set, there was something that wasn't in the script that the director decided decided for their vision of what they wanted to accomplish.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: Everything was placed, we've been placed for hours at this point, that they couldn't undo all of these things, right?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Cameras, people, extras, stunts, whatever.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: And when they realized that I couldn't do the thing that they no one had brought up, it was very uncomfortable, very awkward.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: No one knew how to address it.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: And in in the amount of time that they have, because sets move fast, I then kind of lost my part um because they were like, Oh, we can't make this work, and then they just changed it.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Oh, that sucks.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Well, you still got paid, right?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, Well, that's not the point, you know, like sure, great, I got paid, but the frustration and the embarrassment, truthfully, like it was in front of everyone, like a lot of people.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was just like, this sucks.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm obviously not the only one to have this experience, you know.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I am really thankful for the writers who are considerate and for the sets who are considerate in the sense of being like, we have to remember how when they bring on consultants like me, like we have to remember that their bodies move differently, exist differently, things are different.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, those things need to be acknowledged, making sure that the show or the movie or the writers or the production team is on board.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: And like that's the important part is like we just need people like above the line, as they're saying, to like want to make this happen.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I I couldn't agree more.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I always go back to like the the fact that if every single person like sh had the same disability, like if everybody woke up limb different tomorrow, or if everybody woke up in a wheelchair tomorrow, they'd figure it out so quick, like they'd make sure the adaptations were made.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's just genuinely because it's a minority, and it's only until somebody Tragically, like gets into an accident and they end up losing all four limbs or end up in a wheelchair.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, wait, this world is terrible for people with disabilities.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and it's easy stuff, like lower the curb, like like you say, the buildings where you have to do an audition in a side alley because there's no lift in the building.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that should be mandatory, probably off somewhere.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's ridiculous, you know.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it's so good.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: The people who like get together and really, really talk about it.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the limb different community, especially, like get together so good.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's just such a privilege to watch everybody bloom, you know, and the way we all like charge each other up and wear it together.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like a big event where that happens, which you've mentioned a couple of times.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't been to yet.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm dying to go.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Lucky Finn project weekends.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you have a hero rugged now, right?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: And didn't you take that to the Lucky Finn project land and it was like bright orange?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: And everything like that.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I have my orange covers in the other room, but yeah, the kids loved it.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: I had this one, I I always let everybody put on my arms.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: I play that too.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like especially with the little kids because like their their limbs fit in my arms.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: So like I usually just show up and I I remember I used to just like walk around and talk to people, and then I realized so many parents specifically have questions about prosthetics and and things like that.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: That eventually I just kind of took over a table, dumped out my bag, and was like, here are all my arms.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Here's every hand I have, here's every socket I have, here's my activity arm, here are my activity attachments, here's all my covers.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because I just wanted to show them the range of things that exist.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, as you know, like the younger you are, the harder it is to find devices outside of like a very specific window.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's one of those things where I was like, okay, so when I had my covers, there's this one photo of this little boy that Lucky Finn had been posting this year, and he was so excited to try it.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yeah, so what I'll usually do is I'm like, okay, now put your little arm and kind of touch against each side of the sensors.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then immediately, like, he was able to like make my rugged hand movement.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, well, obviously, he wanted my hand, like, you know, he's like, Can you kind of thing?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it does get hard because then you kind of have to tell the parents, like, well, these options technically in this form, right?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: There's no rugged for for someone who's five.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean yeah, I was like, there are you know, other they do have a multi-articulating hand that you know he could be interested in and it is cool looking, and kind of like was able to show him the covers and some of the different options and the ability to switch with the activity devices, which I'm obsessed with.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how often you use, but like I'll go to the gym like hand on, and I honestly being honest because this one is waterproof.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: I work out on this hand all the time.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually like like I used to not because of how corrosive sweat is on some electrodes, but like I haven't had any issues with this.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, I've been wearing this hand to kickboxing like most of the time.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not much of a gym girl at all.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: The podcast know this.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was testing out our terminal devices at the gym the other day, and I was like, but goddamn, I quite like the way the hand moves, like I was lifting weights with like this hero pro hand, you know what I mean?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it is it is really cool.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I love all the different attachments, but like you're so right.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: The fact that it's like it's I just love how customizable it is.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can pick to use the hand, or you can use terminal devices because obviously everybody's different in how they want to use and operate their hands, and then beyond that, you can pick which color you want, and you can have like a orange hand at Lookyfin weekend, yeah.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's so cool.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think it is incredibly important to go to somebody, a company, you know, a prosthetist that specializes in doing upper limb because it is such a specialized field.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you think of like in the last 20 years, like how much the arms change and how many different options.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like when it used to just be that like there was body-powered hooks and like maybe a single articulation Maya, right?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: My electric.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, two options.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Now there are so many options.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: And they still, I don't know if you know this, but in OMP school in the US, they only have one semester of upper limb.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's two years, right?
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: So four semesters total, but only one of those is upper limb, which may have worked in the when when there was only like two options, but yeah, so many options, that's wild.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's no world where they're ever going to like understand all this.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like the tech has just changed so fast that you have to continue to do education about it, or you have to specialize.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I tell a lot of people who want to wear prosthetics that, like prosthetic devices, if they're new, parents.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you need to go to a specialist.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: You need to either go to someone.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, in the US, obviously, it's different, but you need to go to somebody who says, or at least very least, ask them how many arms they fit a year.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and how many they fit with a similar presentation to you.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, obviously, we're like transradial, right?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, we're the most common presentation, the below elbow, right?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: But like the longer you are, it changes, the shorter you are, it changes.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: As soon as you lose that elbow, big change.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, digits, which I'm so excited that open bionics came out with their digits.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like the digits are so cool, and I think that's so incredibly important.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: That would be something that I talk to parents a lot about at Lucky Fin Weekend.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: They're always like, What are our digit options?
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: What are our finger options?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: How young, and like what kind of level of amputation they have uh can have to be able to wear that because it's so important.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: There were just so few options for so specific presentations that it just reduced down the field of like who got to do this.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and like I got to and I felt lucky.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, obviously.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, same.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like we know we're outside of the norm.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: Our stories are not what most people's are, right?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, most people were not able to get prosthetics as soon after their amputation, or as young as I was, or had difficulty figuring things out, or didn't have a team to work so closely with them what if things were going wrong.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because they're never gonna be perfect in the beginning, and that's so frustrating.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: Especially you working with new tech.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: I know that you're familiar with that too, right?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: Anytime you work with new tech and you're like, like, when it works, it's great, and when it doesn't, it's that much more annoying.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's like genuinely, I I consider myself so lucky.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, even from the point of like when they were gonna amputate my hands, like it was like, do you they were asking my I mean I was one, I couldn't speak, but like I was gonna say, do you remember?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, so it's like to for me, I feel like I was born this way.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, genuinely, I look at myself pre-op and I'm like, is that the same girl?
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I really I describe it like it was in third person, but like they were asking my family, like, oh, do you think she'll be interested in prosthetics in the future?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: And the fact that they even ask that question, like nobody gets asked that question.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, it's so important.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like events where we can all get together and like we've been through it, and we can like share that advice and that feedback and you know let families know what's out there is like so so so important.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think representation in media and film and that it's not just the the sci-fi bonic arms, but I mean like they're not just fiction anymore, like they are in real life, like and when you're there wearing them in some like sci-fi feature film or whatever, and people might look at that and think, oh, that's a cool like sci-fi element.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no, it's real, and like real amputees can wear this stuff, you know.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it's so so so important.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so happy we got you on for the end of Limb Difference Awareness Month, and I'm so excited for all the Lucky Film project content that's gonna be coming up.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to know for anybody who is Limb Different, what do you want them to sort of like take away from your content and what message do you have for that community?
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, I think community is the biggest part.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think I don't think I I didn't know what I didn't know, right?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like you think you're like, oh, I have all the friends, you know, these it's great that I have all these friends.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: They don't need to be limb different until I made other disabled friends, other limb different friends.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: Thinking of yourself as other is really hard, like right, if you can like go, oh, okay, then I blend in, I'm with everybody.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then as soon as you realize you're like, oh, I am different, and that's fine.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's there's nothing wrong with that.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it turns out there's all these other people that actually understand exactly, you know, what that's like.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think reaching out and finding community was something that I couldn't imagine my life without now.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like having these people, like I I know like I sound, like I'm like, no, Lucky Finn is like my favorite time of year.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like it is, it absolutely is.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like when I did MP Coalition Youth Camp, like one of my favorite times of the year, like just being around all of these other people, I think is incredibly important.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it also shows the depth of the community when we talk about representation.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: So like I know what I'm capable of, but then like when you see other people doing things, right?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, even me, like going, like, oh, well, how would someone be a nurse with the limb difference?
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I've met a couple of them now.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, how would someone be a doctor?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I've met them now.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like the more you know, the more you can counteract stereotypes within the population when people are like bringing up things, you're like, Well, I know one, you know, like classical pianists, like I know one.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's just like these kinds of things that people assume, like, oh, you probably can't do this.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, oh, well, maybe I can't because I didn't train and try and work hard and I don't care about it.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there are people who did and do care.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think having a community around you that is limb different, is disabled, is like you really helps open the eyes of everyone, um, knowing now what you know that you didn't know before.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I feel that.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like there's like somebody in every field that's where I go.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, when I think of myself cooking, like, no way people can do this.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's like full-on chefs with like no hands, and I'm like, me and hair and makeup.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: I never learned, I'm not good.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: And like I hate it when I'm like talking because I get my hair makeup done for events, and like, oh my friends, like, why don't you just do it?
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, because if I did it, I would be with like red carpet flash would go off and it'd be like powder and like hair all out of a place.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like I'm not that girly, you know.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: And when I say that to people, I'll be like, Oh, I'm not good at hair.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, Oh, well, I get that.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, What, why do you get that?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because I put it down to your hand.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because they immediately assume that it's because I have one hand.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, Well, I actually know you may just show you the Instagram of this one-handed stylist.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: I actually know two one-handed hairstylists and makeup artists and people who get paid for this, and that this is their job, and they work, they own salons or whatever.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's like, I don't know, but like, I've like open your community for the clap back of anything.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: You're like so.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to say anything, here's their Instagram, follow them.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, like I just, it's one of those things where it's like these are all of our people, and I know that sometimes it feels very lonely.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think with disability role call, a lot of people started saying, like, why are you highlighting other actors?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Aren't you trying to get work?
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, Yeah, man, like, but like I was a rising tides, raises all ships.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, the whole point is we're all trying to get hired.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's important that like they see the world of us, not just me.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not like I'm just one person, and as soon as they start opening doors for more people, obviously they'll open doors for me too at some point.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: But like the cause is important, and if we're not down for the cause, like what are we doing?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: And what would it be like if it's if instead of that we were doing the opposite, we were like tearing over limb different actors, disability actors down?
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, who wins?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody's so dumb.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: Who wins at that point?
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why would I do that?
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, oh my god, Angel, it's been so nice chatting to you.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: I am like so gassed that I got to like finally meet you and like really dive deep.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like we have like so much in common, and I definitely want to like meet you in person one day at one of these events, maybe do a live podcast episode.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: We'll get you in the studio or something that would be super, super.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: You come ballet, we'll figure it out.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like planning on it soon, so I will keep you in the loop for sure.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: Where can we follow you on socials, girl?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: What's your well, your handle?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh just type in my name, Angel Jafria, and I should come up.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: I always joke with everyone because my username is something I did a long time ago.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then when they did the video Angel.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: I did a I they once they verified me, like you know, the old school way.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: If I go to change it now, they're like, you'll lose your verification.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, yeah.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, well, that's so cool the the old school way, because you can just pay for it now.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're legit, you got verified.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Keep it, keep it.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Angel.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: This has been so fun, and yeah, I can't wait to see you next time.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: Bye.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: That was so Bab.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be so real.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, the sun has like legit set because we've been talking for another hour.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, such an important cause.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: There's some real insights there into like what it's like in the film industry with a disability.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: The fact that people aren't gonna approach for rules is kind of crazy.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, obviously, best person for the role, and yeah, whoever should do it should get the job.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: But the fact that I don't know, I feel like you should be auditioning the people who can really bring that like authenticity to the role.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Tilly Talk Tag.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: I really do hope you enjoyed it.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: If you did, please make sure to like, comment, and subscribe, share, check out Angel.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: You can follow us on socials too.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: This mark is the end of our limb difference awareness one but light in.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: It has been a joy.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it's that APOS is coming to an end.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I hope you've learned about some incredible individuals with limb differences who are really pushing a limit.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: They're killing it.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm so happy genuinely to be a part of such an amazing, creative, innovative, incredible community.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna stop now before I start crying into my microphone.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for listening or watching, and I will see you all next time.
• 36:21
  unknown: Bye bye.