Latest / Bourbon & Rum / Trump Madman Theory, NATO Doubts, and the $1.5T Defense Budget

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Trump Madman Theory, NATO Doubts, and the $1.5T Defense Budget · Bourbon & Rum

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And, you know, and I saw that some picture of him in a
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helicopter with a a flag in his lap, but it's like that looks
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like AI. So you don't never know what
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this what you know. I'm not interested in winning at
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all costs. I'm interested in winning, but
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I'm interested in my integrity too.
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I hope that they have a level of of thought passing through their
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head that this guy is completely unhinged, and I don't think
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being unhinged in this case is a bad thing.
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Welcome to Bourbon and Rum, the podcast dedicated to civil
0:31
conversation. I'm Kent, I like rum and I'm
0:34
from the left side of the aisle. And I'm Kyle.
0:37
I like bourbon. I tend to be a little more
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conservative. We're brothers talking politics
0:41
for bourbon and rum. What are you drinking Well.
0:55
I'm, we got a beach trip coming up in in the end of May and I'm
1:03
telling myself I'm going to see if I can hold off till then and
1:07
try to get in some semblance of shape before I go pick out and
1:13
booze it up at the beach. But I don't know, that may not
1:15
work out too well. I could see us a subsequent
1:18
podcast, maybe, you know, tonight or this weekend breaking
1:23
that streak. But how about you?
1:24
What are you sipping on? Well, I'm just I'm having a a
1:29
nice daiquiri. Interesting.
1:33
It's with the Bacardi dark rum and if heaven knows, I've
1:39
consumed a lot of Bacardi rum in my day, but I never bought their
1:45
dark and but I did it. It's it's actually really nice.
1:49
It's got a really nice sweetness to it, a nice richness and very
1:56
easy going. So I'll probably get that again
1:58
for a something to have around. Wow, that's great.
2:03
I learned this week that with a Walmart Plus subscription, if
2:10
you show an ID at the door when they bring the groceries to you,
2:14
you can get liquor trucked into the house at about 1/2 an hour,
2:20
which is probably probably not a good thing to know.
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Yeah, no kidding. That's a little scary.
2:30
Well, I meant to text you. My crazy neighbor that I've
2:35
talked about on the show often is on a cruise and he texted me
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this bottle. He said send this to Kent and
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it's a it's in a glass case. It's some kind of high end rum
2:51
by a brand Bruegel. Have you ever heard of that?
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Yeah, that's a Dominican Republic rum.
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Andres Bruegel is a prestigious rum.
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It's a limited release of over 460 bottles.
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And I guess I had a bottle there.
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Wow. So I bet it's good.
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I love the regular, regular Bruegel and there's AI won't
3:13
remember it correctly, but there's like their
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run-of-the-mill and then they've got kind of an upgraded one
3:18
that's really economical, but a good, a good something to sip
3:23
on. So oh, good, awesome.
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Well, with the holiday, we, we missed our normal recording.
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But actually, it's just kind of interesting because we're
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talking on Wednesday night after kind of a dramatic showdown in
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the Iran war last night. And looks like things kind of
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got back to normal today. But still some conflict with
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Israel. Israel continues to strike
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Hezbollah in Lebanon. But a lot of drama over the
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weekend. And I'm really interested to
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hear your read on how this is gone.
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I think it happens on 2 tracks. There's a, you know, the kind of
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the military's success in doing what they're doing, including a
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really dramatic story of a rescue and the, the politics of
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it, the, the positioning and the, the negotiation.
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So give me a give me a read on that.
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Yeah, I mean, well, again, I contend, I mean, the military
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piece of it is really impressive.
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I mean, just the sheer volume of strikes and what they're taking
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out and the small amount of casualties, it starts pretty
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cool reading about the the rescue.
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There's a diversion operation along with the CIA.
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It was pretty cool, orchestrated set up.
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And I think regardless of your politics, you can, we could be
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proud of our military no matter what they're up to, you know?
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100% question on that. Before you go on, did you find
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it interesting that the Wizzo who was rescued was a was he
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full bird Colonel? Did they release his name?
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I yeah, I couldn't figure that out if he was a, a, a full
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Colonel or if he was a Lieutenant Colonel.
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I, I never saw the, I never saw one or the other.
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I mean it, you know, could certainly be a Wing Commander,
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sure, could be a Colonel or it could be leading the, you know,
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they fly with their teams also. So it's not.
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But I just thought that was interesting, you know, a pretty
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senior officer to be to be in that shape.
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But then I was doing some math and I'm thinking about, you know
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what, the career arc of somebody who's a if they released the
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name. I don't know.
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I'm I'm not sure. I'm just thinking it's probably
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not a zero chance that this is someone who was a contemporary
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of yours. Possibly, although.
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Probably 10-15 years behind honestly.
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I'm I'm old now, unfortunately. Yeah, I don't think I keep
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saying the downed airmen, they don't mention any problem and
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purpose. Yeah, yeah.
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And, you know, and I saw that some picture of him in a
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helicopter with a flag in his lap, but it's like that looks
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like AI. So you don't never know what
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this what you know. Yeah.
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So agreed, great success on the military.
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They're they're they're answering the call for the
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mission that they were given. Certainly.
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What do you think of the mission they were given?
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I mean, I think it's something everybody's talked about doing
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for 50 years and it's finally being done.
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I think it's I think it's progressing.
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I mean, hard to say how it's going to turn out.
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I feel like a lot of the, you know, I've said this before.
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I mean, a lot of the news articles, I mean, it's like it's
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exhausting. I mean, it's like this is well,
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you know, we've lost, you know, I mean, you know, to an hour
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into the campaign, we've lost, you know, or, you know, the
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Iranians say this or say that. I'm like, well, OK, maybe.
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But like, I'm not really sure that I trust anything coming out
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of the Iranian news sources or government.
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And I think it's messy. You know, these aren't, you
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know, negotiations and, hey, we've got a settlement.
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We're pushing this. And it's all pretty messy.
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I mean, there's going to be all kinds of overlap.
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I don't think it's going to be some clean.
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I, I don't think we're going to get in a situation where the
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emperor's going to show up on a battleship and we're going to
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sign a deal and it's all going to be over and everybody stands
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down. I think it's going to be messy
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as all these things are. The question is just can we get
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this to a place where the threats neutralized and can we
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get it to the weaken the place to a degree to where change can
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come? I mean, you know, whether you
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like Israel or dislike Israel, what they brought to the Middle
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East is the power of the dollar, the power of maybe not the
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dollar, the power of whatever your currency is, but.
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The shekel. The power of new Israeli shekel.
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Yeah, the power of economic freedom, you know, and what
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you've seen throughout the Middle East, especially over the
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last, you know, 30-40 years, is, you know, the countries that
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embrace economic prosperity and, and, you know, at least try to,
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I wouldn't say rid themselves of extremism.
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I mean, like at Saudi Arabia, there's still obviously
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extremism there, but kind of keep their crap together and and
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play play ball with the world. They've done pretty well, you
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know, all the countries that have done like that.
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But then these countries like Iran and Yemen and Gaza in and
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Lebanon, I mean, they've become failed states because they they
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want to go down that path. And I think, I think it's
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changing and the fact that, you know, like what you see with the
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Abraham Accords and, you know, I think it's very possible Saudi
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will join as well. What it says is it's like, yeah,
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you know, we disagree on some things, but you know, we'd
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rather be trading with one another and not be killing each
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other. And I I think that's possible
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for Iran. But getting there is not going
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to be a, it's going to be messy and choppy getting there.
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But I think I think engaging is a good thing.
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I think, you know, I think we needed to, I think it was
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inevitable that this confrontation was going to
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happen. And then, you know, I think
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where Trump's head is, is trying to can you get this to a place
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that you can negotiate something?
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And it's not going to work the first time.
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It's probably going to have a lot of starts and stops.
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But you know, I'm encouraged so far.
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Well, fair enough. I, I, I think this is a case
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where we can separate the performance of our military
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answer and the call that they were made to.
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I, I, I, I can't say that degrading Iran's ability to make
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war is a bad thing, right? And I'm not going to play that
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game. I think that the objective of
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the mission was murky at the outset.
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I think we heard some. I think we heard some real
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bullshit, honestly, that like, oh, well, everybody's just
10:56
waiting to kill the guy and then they're going to just storm the
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palace and, you know, regime change is going to take care of
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itself. I think that was naive.
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I think I'm checking myself on this.
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Iran is probably the biggest, most populous and largest
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military of a nation that we've done battle with since World War
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2. It's bigger than Iraq.
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I don't know about what the military capabilities were, but
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if you look at the actions that we've had in Korea, Vietnam,
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Afghanistan, like this is a, this is a pretty serious
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country. And I think we've done a lot to
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degrade their ability to make war, but they're still, they
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still have enough missiles to keep ships from going through
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the Straits of Hormuz. So it's not like we've shut them
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down. Well, I disagree with that
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characterization a bit and that, OK, OK, if they are the biggest
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military since World War 2, you know, three weeks into this
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thing and the military has been dismantled.
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Yeah, there's Yahoo's lobbing missiles here and there, but
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like their missile launches since the start of the.
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War. Are like 90 like single digit
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percentages of what they were at the beginning.
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They're running out of missiles and they got people making lob
12:28
stuff across the fence and they can mess up the Strait of
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Hormuz. But I mean, the, I think you
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said it well, if this is the most formidable military that
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we've faced since World War Two and three weeks we decimated
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their armed forces is amazing. Agree.
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But I also think that the fact that as much damage as we've
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done to them, there's still 500 oil tankers that can't get
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through the straits. And so it's, you know, I think
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this goes to that asymmetric warfare that we've talked about.
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And the the last thing, you know what, they don't need tanks to
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roll across into Israel, you know, to, to create, continue to
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create bona fide problems for the world.
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I mean, the, the, the stoppage of oil is a serious issue for
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our economy. I mean, not as ours, the world
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economy. Well.
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We talked about futures. Yeah, there's an impact on oil
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futures, but there's not an impact on oil supply to us.
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No. And so I guess where I'm going
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is I think it's actually right to be like, that's not the
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number one problem we need to solve.
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The Strait of Hormuz is not the number one problem we need to
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solve. It's not our problem to solve.
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And it's like the people that rely on it, maybe they ought to
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have a hand in helping resolve that.
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But all the people that rely on it are are not doing anything
14:05
about it. Yeah, I, I, I don't know,
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predictably, I have a very low opinion of Donald Trump and I
14:16
have a very low opinion of the things that he said.
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I, I think that we're going to be fine.
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Our, our military certainly capable.
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And to your point, I, I can't argue that some version of this
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needed to happen at some point. It was kind of, you know, had to
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happen at some point. Do do you characterize for me
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what you think of the. I just find it interesting that
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there's been a lot of pushback from mega.
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Did you see Tucker Carlson's assessment of the Easter Sunday
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tweet? I, I don't watch Tucker Carlson
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anymore. I think that guy's off his
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rocker, but. No, OK, well, you know, a lot of
15:06
people were pretty horrified by the praise be to Allah on Easter
15:10
Sunday morning and you know, that's just being an asshole,
15:17
which we become quite inured to. But what, what about the threat
15:24
to civilian infrastructure that was looming over the world
15:27
yesterday? You I mean.
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I love it, I love it. Thought it was just.
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Tell me more. Yeah, I mean, what I, what Iran
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would normally expect from an American president is, you know,
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we have no problems with the Iranian people.
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We are just going to take out, you know, measured response and
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very controllable. I hope that they are having
15:50
meetings and one, a guy's an asshole, he's pissing us off,
15:55
and two, better yet, he's off his rocker and he's nuts.
16:00
I hope that they have a level of of thought passing through their
16:04
head that this guy is completely unhinged.
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And I don't think being unhinged in this case is a bad thing at
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all. Well, because look, that's well.
16:11
Worn path. I mean these, these people.
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Don't respond to logical overtures.
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Right, But I mean, and admittedly, the madman theory is
16:21
an old trope in American history.
16:24
Richard Nixon played that to the hilt.
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If that's all this is, that's fine.
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But let me ask you this. In the run up to this, we we did
16:34
play the bullshit of we have no problem with the Iranian people.
16:37
We they just got to get rid of this regime.
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Well, they haven't gotten rid of this regime.
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So and do you think this? Regime.
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In three weeks they haven't gotten rid of a 50 year old
16:47
regime. Yes, true.
16:50
It was fun to me, like we take out the guy and they're going to
16:54
rush the palace that afternoon because those people are so
16:57
unhappy with the. That was not my I sure hope that
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you didn't think I was spinning it that way.
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I think this is going to take time.
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I think it's very possible they could overrun it.
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I don't think it's going to look like Chichescu in Romania, but I
17:13
think it's quite possible it could happen.
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But I don't think it's going to happen next week.
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Do you think though this regime gives a half a shit about the
17:21
people of its country? Don't they don't.
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So then what good is it going to do to bomb power plants?
17:28
I hope they know that the last guy that was in charge is dead
17:32
and then the next guy is dead. And you know what it does to
17:37
destroy their power plants, destroy their infrastructures,
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You destroy their means to to carry on any further.
17:43
I mean, I, I do not in any part of my bone think that we're
17:49
going to nuke Tehran or carpet bomb civilian population.
17:53
That's not what this is. But when he says we're going to
17:55
destroy their civilization, I think he's trying to send us a
17:58
clear message to, you know, the, all the mullahs in charge that
18:05
like, hey, your life as you know it is going to change
18:09
substantially. And I don't know that the people
18:12
in Iran would mind. I think they want to.
18:14
I I would. Guarantee you that most of the
18:16
people in Iran would do anything to get rid of these assholes.
18:20
Most of the people in Iran would be happy.
18:23
They would be happy to have no electricity and no freaking
18:26
water. You don't think that could be
18:28
solved in in a week and 1/2 with the world converging on there
18:34
and A and a peaceful regime and what they could do to support
18:36
them, There's not going. To be no, I don't think that I,
18:38
I, I genuinely, I think that that's, I think this is a, with
18:44
all respect, I, I think you're, I think you're underestimating
18:47
the size and scale of what the nation of Iran is What, what
18:52
would Texas be like if you didn't have any power plants in
18:55
Texas? I mean, think that through.
18:58
You know, we're not talking about we've we've, we've played
19:01
games in, you know, we invaded Nicaragua.
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That's not what we're talking about here.
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And I mean, I saw what he said as as posturing bullshit.
19:16
I, I, I'm not, I'm not, you know, deluded that he was
19:23
actually thinking about, you know, I, I mean, I, I think he
19:28
was, I think he was bluffing and I think he tacoed, but I think
19:31
that. You know this and this is this
19:34
is my biggest beef to this defeatist attitude of the anti
19:43
Trump movement. Here is the part I just have a
19:47
hard time stomaching. Like, yeah, is this thing going
19:49
to work out great? Maybe not.
19:51
Are there a lot of potential negative impacts?
19:54
100%. But the constant hand wringing
19:59
and it's the end of the world and it's all going to fail
20:02
because Trump's in charge. There's people that wanted to
20:06
fail because Trump's in charge because then that will then
20:09
prove that Trump's an idiot or whatever the, the moniker that
20:13
somebody has. But it's also that like it's,
20:18
there's no possible way this could work because Trump's in
20:22
charge And I'm like, I screw Trump.
20:27
I, I think, I think this is going to be a better scenario
20:32
for the future than continuing with status quo.
20:37
Is it going to be great? Is there going to be problems?
20:40
100%. But I, you know, I just feel
20:43
like there's this huge movement to come up with 1,000,000
20:49
reasons why it can't possibly work.
20:51
And I, I just think it's against our nature as a country.
20:57
We're in this thing and I think we want it to succeed.
21:00
Well, I hope you don't read that on me.
21:01
I want us to succeed and I'm, I hold, no, I, I'm, I'm shedding
21:07
no tears for the Iranian regime, right?
21:11
And but it still matters to me. And it, it, it matters a lot to
21:17
me. Trump, this is not about the
21:23
outcome in Iran. Like I think that that's going
21:26
to take care of itself. I want to separate that.
21:29
But Oh my gosh, the guy is so it.
21:37
It just, the whole thing feels beneath us as a nation.
21:41
That's what I'm saying. Our military, we don't need to
21:44
threaten to bomb civilian infrastructure to win this
21:47
thing. It looks weak to me.
21:50
He always looks weak to me. Well, yeah, because, and that's
21:54
where I'm going like, no matter what happens, this, you know, if
21:59
Iran becomes a peaceful place 10 years from now, and it was
22:04
started by this, Trump will never have any credit in your
22:07
mind to anybody. And I and I get that and I'm OK
22:11
with that. But I'm not going to sit here
22:14
and, you know, constantly be like, well, then he said this
22:20
and he's an idiot. He screwed this.
22:21
I like I I think he's on the right track here is 100% right.
22:27
No, but I mean, I, I guess my point is it's, it just seems
22:35
like a unfruitful conversation because there is zero chance
22:41
that anything positive coming out of this will ever be
22:45
attributed to Trump. And so then it becomes like this
22:48
whole thing of like, you know, it's back to the The thing is he
22:53
a, is he an idiot? Is he crazy or is he sinister?
22:57
You know, and, and then, you know, I think your answer is all
22:59
three. So I.
23:03
No, I, I, I get you. Does.
23:05
But does he deserve credit? I I think our military deserves
23:10
credit for what they've done. You think the mumbler in chief
23:13
would have pulled this off? Never.
23:15
No, no, don't mistake as strength though what's really I
23:26
don't know. Again, this isn't about the
23:28
outcome. It's not about Iran.
23:29
It's it you? You're right, I can't get past
23:32
it. It's about how to pick apart all
23:34
the problems with Trump. That's what this is about.
23:37
It, it, it embarrasses me. It looks weak.
23:40
As a nation, we, we don't need to make threats like that.
23:43
Our military doesn't. They don't, they don't need him
23:46
threatening to bomb their power plants.
23:50
We, we got this or we're strong enough.
23:53
It's that's what bothers me. It robs it it it, it undercuts
23:59
the the credit that's due. I I guess I don't get that.
24:03
What do you, I mean, I, I mean, in my mind, he's trying to
24:11
pressure them on a negotiation. And again, yeah, you say it's
24:18
beneath us and it's embarrassing and all this stuff.
24:20
It's different. It's a way different playbook
24:23
than anybody's done before. And you know, will will it have,
24:29
will it, will it land and have perfect effectiveness?
24:32
Maybe not. But it's a hell of a lot
24:34
different than anybody's done before.
24:38
And I don't think different is bad necessarily.
24:42
I I think you think different is bad just because it's Trump.
24:44
And so matter what he does, it's a horrible idea.
24:47
But yes. But I also don't think we needed
24:52
different. I think things were working
24:54
pretty well. We've avoided World War Three
24:57
for 75 years. Like, I think we're OK.
25:01
Like so do. Not do anything with Iran and
25:03
just give them billions of dollars in cash on an airplane.
25:06
I mean, what? Like what?
25:07
What is the I mean is the argument that we shouldn't, we
25:11
should have just kept the status quo?
25:14
No, I, I don't think I condemned the air strikes a couple months
25:20
ago. You, you know what I mean.
25:23
Like I don't your, your criticism is right.
25:30
I don't deny it. I am so horrified by this guy.
25:34
I am so disgusted by this guy that I can't get over it.
25:38
And I, I think this is true in my personal life.
25:43
I would rather be. I'm not interested in winning at
25:48
all costs. I'm interested in winning, but
25:52
I'm interested in my integrity too, so and we don't want to.
25:55
Win. We don't want to win if it's if
25:58
it offends the Prime Minister of Britain or the Iranian news
26:03
media. That's not what I'm saying.
26:05
Who are you worried about offending?
26:06
Who are you? I'm not worried about offending
26:08
anybody. I'm worried about how I feel
26:10
about it. I mean, I don't know what to
26:16
tell you. I'm embarrassed by that.
26:17
I'm embarrassed that he's throwing around that that we're
26:22
going to bomb your power plants and your bridges.
26:24
That's that's beneath us. We don't need.
26:26
That I, I, I don't even know how to answer that.
26:31
I like, I think it's terrific. I think, I think that's exactly
26:36
what we need. We need to project force.
26:38
We need to be, you know, we're going to take this to you like
26:44
never before if you don't come to the bargaining table, and I'm
26:46
glad. They don't care about the people
26:48
like like this is like that just doesn't.
26:53
Matter to me. I, I think you underestimate The
27:01
Who these people are that we're, that we're dealing with here.
27:03
I think you have to be extremely radical to get their attention.
27:07
And I think that's what he's doing, and I think it's the
27:09
right move. I just don't know that it's that
27:12
compelling to them. Do they care if you bomb the
27:15
infrastructure as long as they get to do what they want to do?
27:19
I I think they're willing to throw their own people under the
27:22
bus. I think it's compelling that
27:24
everybody in the world freaked out.
27:27
Like that's crazy for him to say that I'm, I think that's a good
27:31
outcome. I think that's a terrific
27:33
outcome because that ought to deliver the news to the Iranians
27:38
that you're dealing with a different guy than you've dealt
27:40
with in that office in the last 50 years, and I think that's a
27:43
good thing. Do you think that he would have
27:46
done it? Yeah, I mean again, done.
27:53
It Would you have felt good about that?
27:54
Done it. I don't think is carpet bombing
27:57
civilians, but yeah, taking out infrastructure not a bad move.
28:02
I mean, that's, I mean, eventually how you this is going
28:07
to go down. I mean, at some point in in a
28:09
wartime situation, I mean, you're going to strike at the
28:12
axis of their power. So I.
28:15
Don't know. It's just, it's a, it's a moving
28:17
target. I would, I was told that if we
28:22
killed the bad guy, if we, if we killed the top guy, they were,
28:25
the villagers were going to be there with the torches at the
28:28
palace that afternoon and it was all going to be great.
28:30
Who said? That and when.
28:33
That was kind of how it was pitched there.
28:34
The people are just waiting, forced to do that.
28:36
That's how you heard it, because everything that Trump does is a
28:39
cluster F and screw up and it's going to go South.
28:42
And so that's anything short of perfection in 24 hours is a
28:48
failure. And that's where 95% of the news
28:52
media is right now. This thing's a failure.
28:54
We've lost. We're losers on the world stage,
28:56
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, and it's all
28:59
bullshit. I didn't say that we're losers
29:01
on the world. No, you didn't.
29:03
You didn't, but that's what I mean, that is.
29:06
But you said the. News media.
29:08
These people are just waiting to break out and be free and, and
29:12
maybe that's. Still true.
29:13
Maybe that's. Well, the fact hundreds of
29:16
thousands of people were protesting while they gunned
29:19
down 35,000 people tells me they are pretty pretty interested in
29:24
ending this thing. But it's not going to be fast.
29:26
There's a lot of thugs in power and we're taking out a lot of
29:30
them, but there's a lot more. I mean, I don't know.
29:33
I again, we're three weeks into this.
29:35
I mean, if we had the pot, you know, when we do the podcast in
29:38
15 years from now and we're talking about nothing's changed
29:40
in Iran. Yeah, peace.
29:43
Can you you're correct. This is a total screw up.
29:46
But I, I think it is going to be a different trajectory in that
29:51
country. It's it's going to take time and
29:52
it's going to be messy, but I think it's a lot less messy than
29:57
some of the other adventures we've had.
30:00
What? Do you make of the pretty public
30:04
condemnation of Trump? I mentioned Tucker Carlson, You
30:06
don't. You don't look at him anymore.
30:08
I mean, he's not the only one. A lot of a lot of people on the
30:11
right have been really critical. Alex Jones, your buddy said that
30:16
we need to invoke the 25th Amendment.
30:18
Yeah. I mean, are they all?
30:19
Are they all nuts now? Alex Jones ought to run for a
30:23
Democratic congressman office. He's aligned with their
30:26
thinking. That's.
30:27
So, So what do you make of that? Seriously.
30:29
OK, let's let's put this aside. There's no way we're going to
30:31
agree on this. I think ever, ever anything that
30:35
Trump touches, I think it's bad. I think he's a bad person.
30:40
I think he's a bad human being. And he's it's an embarrassment
30:43
to me that he's the leader of our nation.
30:45
We'll set that aside. I hope that we win in Iran.
30:48
Things that have happened in the last two years would have would
30:51
have happened under Mumbles, but let's not go there.
30:56
I hope that we win, I hope that things work out and hope there's
30:59
freedom for the Iranian people. Set all of that aside.
31:03
Tell me about your movement, tell me about your people,
31:06
'cause you're, you're all in. What about these people?
31:12
You. You don't.
31:13
Don't put words. Don't put words in my mouth.
31:16
I am all in for American success.
31:18
I'm all in for a more peaceful Middle East.
31:20
I'm all in for the people of Iran to have have a brighter
31:25
future. Yes, I'm all in on those things.
31:27
I'm not all in on Alex Jones. I'm not all in on Tucker
31:30
Carlson. The nice thing about the mega or
31:34
whatever you want to call, it's not really the mega movement.
31:37
That's what the media likes to say.
31:39
But the late The nice thing about the generally the the red
31:45
States and the red voters is it's a pretty inclusive tent.
31:50
There's a variety of folks. You know, there's a lot, we've
31:54
talked a lot about the party demographics has changed over
31:56
the last 20 years. A lot of people that are voting
31:58
Republican today or weren't, weren't voting Democrat, weren't
32:01
voting Republican 5 or 10 years ago.
32:03
So I do think there is a wide tent.
32:06
I think there is a faction of people that are anti Israel and
32:09
just like there's a faction in the left that's anti Israel.
32:13
And I am anti Israel in so far as Israel, I, the Israel of
32:18
today and Benjamin Netanyahu, I think is yeah, I'm, I'm not, I'm
32:23
not for that. Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm
32:26
actually for, you know, stable economic democracies and and
32:34
areas of tyrants. So I am for them.
32:36
But in that sense, I think there's folks that are
32:43
protectionist, you know, in the in the party as well.
32:46
Like, they don't want to go anywhere they didn't want to.
32:48
They don't want to do anything in Ukraine.
32:49
They don't want to do anything outside the borders of the
32:51
United States. And yeah, I mean, there's
32:54
probably some argument to be made with some of those folks,
32:57
but I don't know that true isolationism is a is a smart
33:00
move. And I don't know that the
33:02
majority of Republicans really support that isolationist
33:07
approach, but I think, you know, there's a lot of these guys that
33:10
are. So, you know, and then there's,
33:13
you know, there's these different groups that are pissed
33:16
off at different groups. Like, you know, some people are
33:21
anti Ben Shapiro, like, you know, Carlson and those guys
33:25
hate Ben Shapiro and vice versa. You know, there's factions
33:28
different ways. But yeah, I mean, I guess you
33:32
know, the the biggest change I've seen is the OR the change
33:39
or the fault line is around the America first.
33:42
Like what does America first mean?
33:44
And I think the if you look at the Tuckers and the I don't
33:48
know, I haven't I haven't read anything from Alex Jones in a
33:50
while. So I thank you for that
33:52
reference. 25th Amendment. How do we get rid of this guy?
33:56
It's worth watching the video. I mean, you know, I just, I
34:00
should just point out that he has been de platformed from
34:03
everywhere. So this means Kent is seeking
34:06
out Alex Jones content but. I had to savor the when he says
34:12
to the person on his show, well, what do we do?
34:16
How do we get rid of him? How do we invoke the 25th
34:19
Amendment? It was it was just a moment for
34:22
me. No, it's also.
34:24
No, I mean, I think a lot of people look at that America
34:29
first, like, OK, that means we're only in America and you're
34:34
never going to leave America. And it's like, I, I don't know,
34:38
I think you could be against the overreach of USAID and not be
34:43
against, you know, being proactive about global threats.
34:47
So, I mean, I don't know, I it's a good point.
34:50
There's some and there's probably a lot in the party that
34:53
had that feeling. And and you bring up a great
34:55
point, too. I mean, you know, that's where
34:59
this thing gets tricky. Like it's probably not going to
35:01
happen in a week where it becomes a stable democracy in
35:04
Iran. It's probably going to take
35:05
time. Who knows what that looks like.
35:07
And the longer it is and the messier it is, the more people
35:09
you're going to lose. So, yeah, I don't I don't think,
35:13
you know. And again, that's kind of,
35:15
again, back to, you know, back to your view of Trump.
35:25
This isn't, it's certainly when the politically self-serving
35:29
move because there are, you know, this could rapture the
35:34
party in a lot of ways for sure. So it certainly threatens that.
35:37
Yeah, it's yeah. I mean, honestly, that's, that's
35:45
a single piece of evidence that you've given me that, that he
35:49
really is thinking about what's best for America because it, I
35:55
think this will be expensive to him.
35:56
I, I really do. I, and he may have concluded
35:59
that the midterms were a loss anyway.
36:01
I saw that people are saying that he's looking to engineer
36:06
some sort of crisis that we can sideline the midterms, but maybe
36:12
he just figured it's going to lose him anyway.
36:15
Yeah, I mean, you know, the party of Nicolas Maduro, drug
36:19
runners and ayatollahs, I mean, they, I think they're going to
36:22
do really well in the midterms, so.
36:29
Yeah. So, yeah, it's it's going to be,
36:32
it's going to be interesting, you know, but it to your point,
36:34
yeah, it's, it's not exactly. So it's, it's like the least
36:38
self interested thing I've ever seen this man do.
36:40
And that's. Yeah, I don't, I don't know.
36:46
I don't know how that plays out. A lot of the left is like me
36:51
look, and I, you know, you, you point that out.
36:54
I, I'm a little embarrassed by it, but it's true, Kyle.
36:57
Donald Trump is irredeemable in my eyes.
37:01
He has vilified immigrants in a way that I can't, I can't
37:07
forgive that. And there's nothing that he's
37:11
ever going to be able to do that I'll be OK with.
37:13
It may be that he inadvertently or happens to do something
37:20
that's good for our country. I I don't think it's impossible
37:23
that he could do something that's good for our country.
37:25
And if we win a, a, a great outcome in Iran, that's fine.
37:30
He's still irredeemable to me. Well, maybe he.
37:32
Should go marry an immigrant. Oh, wait a second, I think he
37:35
did that. So is she going to have to leave
37:42
if the Supreme Court rules against him?
37:48
No, but Marco Rubio does. Did you catch this?
37:51
The, the arguments in front of the Supreme Court?
37:55
We don't have time to go into this.
37:57
It's amazing. If you want to look, I think
38:00
it's Forbes on YouTube runs. They're boring videos, 'cause
38:05
there's no video. It's just the audio of the
38:07
arguments before the Supreme Court.
38:10
But in the birthright citizenship case last week, you
38:14
know, they made their arguments and it looked like this court
38:17
was largely pretty skeptical of it.
38:20
But somebody pointed out that Marco Rubio, by the rules that
38:26
the that the executive order has put down, Marco Rubio needs to
38:31
go. Like, he's not.
38:33
His citizenship is not valid. That'd be interesting since he's
38:38
the best position person to run for the Republican nomination
38:42
since they're throwing JD under the bus.
38:46
Yeah, although I don't know if they it'd be an interesting
38:51
legal case if they did change that ruling.
38:55
Would it be retroactive or would it be from this day forward?
38:59
Well, this was interesting. And again, we don't have time to
39:01
go into it, but the solicitor general that I can't remember
39:04
what his name is, was like, Oh no, no, we're not saying
39:08
anything looking backwards. And I'm like, but, but dude,
39:12
you, you, you're arguing for a legal precedent that says these
39:18
people don't like, there's, there's moving forward, their
39:21
citizenship's not valid. And you want me to trust you
39:26
that we're not talking about what happened before?
39:29
I mean, that's not really how legal precedents work.
39:32
If you invalidate the rule under which people got citizenship,
39:37
and it might not happen tomorrow, but it might happen 3
39:39
weeks or 10 years from now. And now you got a piece of paper
39:43
in your hand that says Supreme Court said that we're able to do
39:46
it. It's worth watching some of the
39:48
OR listening to some of those arguments.
39:52
Interesting. Listen to Neil Gorsuch going
39:55
after this guy about the argument about birthright
39:59
citizenship. And Amy Coney Barrett earned
40:03
some points in my in my estimation by standing up for
40:08
what the. You know, the Constitution says
40:11
the Constitution that's in the like the little folder thing in
40:14
the best pocket of all the Republican senators.
40:18
You know, they've got their Constitution, and yet we're
40:21
trying to take birthright citizenship away.
40:24
That's an amendment, I mean, and we have a process to amend the
40:27
Constitution, so I mean. That's that is the executive
40:30
orders ain't that process. If you think it's a bad idea,
40:35
get get you 2/3 of the states. Hence the reason it's for the
40:39
Supreme Court. Again, that's because of the
40:41
Constitution, I mean. Yeah.
40:44
It's a changeable document, That's the benefit of it.
40:46
It is. It is.
40:48
I think it's unlikely to change on the basis of this executive
40:51
order based on what I heard from the Supreme Court.
40:54
Yeah. But probably, yeah.
40:59
Well, other than that, missus. Other than that, Other than
41:05
that, Missus Lincoln. Anything else going on in the
41:10
world that you noticed this is kind of sucked up all the
41:13
oxygen. Yeah, we might pull out of NATO.
41:18
What do you think of that? Well, I mean, why not?
41:23
And really, why not? What's the point of NATO,
41:26
honestly, in this day and age? Is it really necessary?
41:30
I mean, who needs NATO if you're going to spend a bit a trillion
41:34
and a half dollars on a military?
41:38
Yeah, I mean, let's just pay for it.
41:41
All we spend we. Spend a trillion now.
41:43
So I mean. Let's run the credit card up a
41:47
little higher. Let's let's do that.
41:50
And if we got to make cuts, let's do that on the backs of
41:53
the poor. So you really keep our.
41:55
Priorities in OK, OK, OK, let's take this a piece of the type.
41:59
So you really think that if we spend less on defense, we can
42:03
count on Belgium and the UK couldn't launch a frigate to the
42:09
Middle East because it they didn't have the funding to get
42:14
it up and running? I mean, if that's your defense
42:17
strategy, I'm going to Start learning, learning a foreign
42:22
language. Well, I think we've talked about
42:26
this. Why are we, how much are we
42:31
spending on drones out of that trillion and a half versus how
42:34
much we're spending on replacing the obsolete fighters and
42:40
bombers that we don't need anymore because the world has
42:43
moved on? Could we could we shave a few
42:46
bucks off the trillion and 1/2 for that?
42:48
I'm sure we can, but, and this is a conversation for another
42:53
day, your desire to throw all negative things at Trump's feet
43:00
is going to have a hard time landing on how we change the
43:05
Defence Department. Because if you think a perfect
43:09
president is going to have any impact over the defence
43:13
industrial complex, I'm going to see if you've got some THC in
43:18
that room. Now stipulated like this is a
43:21
bigger problem than Trump and 100% agree with that.
43:26
But man, we got to fix that. And yeah, and I don't know that
43:34
like, how do we get how do we get people to think that
43:39
through? Like I'm weak on defense because
43:42
I don't want to spend more money than our country.
43:45
Then I don't want to spend more than our freaking GDP on the
43:50
next year. I, I don't think that makes me,
43:54
I don't think that makes me unsupportive of our military.
43:57
That makes me dubious about the system.
44:00
This is not Trump. This is both sides.
44:02
This is Congress. This is the whole enterprise.
44:05
It's insanity what we're doing. But nobody seems to have nobody
44:11
seems to have the the balls to to make a change that I don't
44:15
know. I mean, I, I mean, we, we tried
44:21
having somebody make a change and that didn't work to OSH.
44:25
I mean, that was essentially the concept is come in and raise
44:29
hell and try to change things. And that hit a big wet blanket
44:33
in the Defense Department. I think I agree.
44:37
I just, I think it's an, it's a, it's, the problem is it's too
44:43
big to fix. And that, that sounds like a
44:45
huge cop out. But I think that's part of the
44:48
problem is there's so many people with so many hooks in it,
44:52
like. And I, if somebody had the
44:56
political will, do you not think you have a very higher opinion
45:02
of our military? As do I?
45:06
If somebody had the guts and said, by the way, like we got to
45:10
refill the Tomahawks that cost 15,000,000 bucks that we, we,
45:15
we, we're shooting. There was an article in the Wall
45:17
Street Journal, our defense missiles cost like 3,000,000
45:22
bucks a pop. And they shoot down drones that
45:25
cost like 20 grand, right? You know, you don't have to be
45:31
an economist. To.
45:32
Play that out that that's not really a winning plan for us.
45:37
Exactly. And honestly, part of this is a,
45:43
this is a disregard and a disrespect for our military.
45:48
Do you not believe that if we said actually, no, we're not
45:51
going to spend a trillion and a half, we're going to spend 750
45:54
billion, we're cutting it in half.
45:55
And we're saying, generals, Admirals, here's what you've
46:00
got. Go make your plans.
46:04
Rearrange it. Keep our country safe.
46:06
That's what you can afford to spend.
46:08
Do you not think that they would, by hook or crook, find
46:12
ways to keep our country safe? Of course they would.
46:14
You don't think so? I I don't say that like his in
46:21
like an indictment, like they would want to keep us safe.
46:23
That's not what I mean. But I think, I think the system
46:28
at a working level is not designed to cause what you're
46:33
really wanting isn't all these departments to go back and solve
46:38
for a way to do it easier. What you're really wanting to do
46:41
is a high level trade off analysis, a high level like, OK,
46:48
there's this, you know, multi billion dollar program and
46:51
there's this one. Let's get rid of this one 'cause
46:53
this one could do what the other one could.
46:55
And that's like, it's almost like a moneyball problem.
46:58
It's like, OK, we we can go sink 100 billion here and it'll do
47:02
this versus this. The problem is the people that
47:05
would actually figure that out are some asshole consultant
47:11
that's going to soak the government for billions of
47:15
dollars, like the Rand Corporation or the McKenzie or
47:18
one of these other yahoos to basically say the same crap that
47:21
everybody knows, you know, and it's like.
47:25
But if we had the will to follow through, I would gladly pay
47:27
McKenzie a billion dollars. Sure.
47:32
I don't think these are that hard of problems.
47:34
That's the crazy part. I don't think it's that hard.
47:36
Well, but then the other problem is, is what even once you
47:39
identified it, and I'm not trying to throw rocks.
47:41
I'm I'm with you. I'm, I'm agree with you a
47:43
million percent. I'm just thinking of the
47:45
landscape. Once you decide the problem, all
47:49
these stupid programs are all funded by individual defense
47:54
appropriation bills in Congress. So unwinding those, now you're
47:58
unwind. You know, it's back to the same
47:59
problem with executive orders. Well, somebody, some judge is
48:05
going to file an order and say, well, you've violated the 2022
48:09
defense appropriations bill that says this freaking program is
48:13
going to go to Pennsylvania and then this one's going to
48:15
Michigan. Like it's so embedded it's like
48:21
unwinding it is damn near impossible.
48:24
Yeah, I just don't love spending a trillion and a half dollars on
48:28
the credit card. I don't either.
48:30
It's and but it's like AI think honestly, you know, it's it's
48:41
actually an interesting dialogue because this may compete with
48:45
some of your misgivings on executive power.
48:50
But really the only way to fix it would be absolute executive
48:54
power to fix to fix that, because everything is so tied to
49:00
all those congressional actions to separate the two.
49:04
You couldn't do you like one person or one entity is going to
49:07
have to decide all this crap? You're not you're not going to
49:10
build the debate, you know, the 50 weapon systems in Congress.
49:13
And then, and then even if these people agreed with their data,
49:16
they're not going to vote for it because it's going to screw up
49:19
the plant and Scranton, you know, it's like.
49:22
Right. Yeah.
49:24
I think I live in like the single state in the nation that
49:28
I don't think has an active federal military base.
49:32
Yeah. I'm not sure.
49:34
Well, we've got the Ames Research Laboratory.
49:38
So we, you know, we do nuke research here, but I don't
49:42
think, and there's the Rock Island Arsenal, but that's in
49:44
Illinois. I don't think you've probably
49:48
got a source on that. You know, a lot of states,
49:52
Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri, like they're loaded with bases.
49:57
I don't think there's anything in Iowa.
50:01
Des Moines International Guard base.
50:04
Well, guard of course, but I mean a an active duty base?
50:09
I don't think so. Yeah, I'd miss the Guard and
50:13
then the Rock Island. Apparently Chuck Grassley be at
50:18
100 years old and haven't been a senator for 45 years or
50:22
something, has been unable to bring that pork home.
50:27
Yeah. Well, we should probably leave
50:32
it at this point. I think we're not going to that
50:35
would. Be a good topic for another day
50:37
the the defense industrial complex and we could do some
50:40
research, you know, honestly, hell, that could be a campaign
50:46
or a podcast, all of it. So, you know, I don't know, it's
50:51
it's kind of like the the situation.
50:53
I mean, this is, it's different, but similar.
50:55
Like everybody looks at that like 1.5 trillion of you lost
51:01
your ever loving mind. Like what are we doing?
51:03
But then it's like Donald Trump and Kamala Harris are the best
51:08
two. We could come up with that of
51:09
350 million people. But you know, it's kind of a
51:12
similar thing. It's like, how do you solve
51:17
something that big? Yeah, yeah.
51:20
Interesting. That would be a good topic to
51:23
dig into. I've got an idea how I'm going
51:25
to solve it and I and I'm testing it on the 25th of April
51:28
but. You know what we don't do
51:30
enough. Oh, right, right.
51:32
We don't do enough as interaction with our audience.
51:36
And this would be a really good one.
51:38
Get on our Our Bourbon Run podcast website.
51:43
Send a note to the producer with your suggestion for how to get
51:47
out from underneath a billion and a half dollar rock.
51:51
It'd be it'd be interesting to see what people come up with.
51:53
You know, we've got a really we've been doing a little
51:56
analytics lately on the podcast. We have a really eclectic
52:01
audience and I think it's a good time to just say thank you to
52:05
all of the people that listen to us.
52:06
It's, it really is wonderful and it, it means a lot to us.
52:11
And it, it's a really eclectic group.
52:13
So what we could do is we could Crowdsource a cure for the
52:17
Defense Industrial complex on the Bourbon Run podcast, and
52:20
then we'll just run that up the flagpole and see where we get.
52:24
I'm serious though, like, you know, it's the same thing on how
52:29
can we get two other people to represent 350 million people
52:32
besides Kamala Harris and Donald Trump?
52:34
It's the the the answer is within.
52:38
I mean, there is an answer to all these situations and
52:42
questions. You know, no offense, can't and
52:46
I and again, I would vote for you as a candidate, but but we
52:49
do not have all the answers on the on the podcast.
52:52
But but I do feel like if more people talked like we did and
52:59
had civil conversation. I mean, look at tonight.
53:02
I, I, we got a little heated at times.
53:04
We got arguing with each other and throwing Spears at each
53:08
other. But, you know, you know, maybe
53:10
more so than some recent podcast, but, you know, we
53:14
didn't drop any F bombs and, you know, we didn't throw anything
53:17
at the television. But it's not personal.
53:20
I mean, it, it's, it's or it's it's exactly personal.
53:24
Maybe that's the difference. Right?
53:26
Right. I know you.
53:27
I love you. I respect you, right?
53:29
I I think you're I think you're out of your mind sometimes with
53:33
the things that you think about Donald Trump.
53:35
And I know that you think that, you know, Well, I don't want to
53:38
put words in your mouth. Yeah, I'm a smart guy, but I got
53:41
this one thing. I can't get out of it in front
53:44
of me. And that's true.
53:48
But honestly, it's not personal. I don't, I don't hold any grudge
53:51
against you. But yet we allow people to
53:55
manipulate us that way. Yeah.
53:57
And I just, I think that if more people could be having
54:01
conversations like we're having, that's how you solve these
54:04
problems. I mean, you're not going to
54:05
solve them on, you know, talking heads on a news show or, or in
54:10
or the political theater that is the US Congress or the Supreme
54:14
Court or any of these other institutions.
54:16
I mean, it's people slinging it and talking about it.
54:19
And there's probably some of somebody that's got the answer.
54:21
We just haven't found them yet. Agree.
54:23
Are we going to get a, a rundown on your, on your event?
54:27
Is it, are we talking about that on this or are we keeping that
54:31
hidden? I don't know.
54:31
Yeah. No, I'd be happy to.
54:33
But I, I know we're trying to keep it short tonight, so I
54:35
don't want to go into much detail, but but afterwards, can
54:39
we get the, can we get the after action?
54:41
Report on that. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
54:45
I just to tell everybody I've been I'll explain it later
54:48
podcast. But I've I've had this idea for
54:51
a long time about getting people together and talking and I've
54:55
kind of I've had a vision of what it looks like and I've been
55:00
doing more ID aiding on it over the last couple of months.
55:02
And I'm going to try to launch it later later this month.
55:04
But it's also daunting because like one of the reasons I've
55:08
only been thinking about this for 30 years and never done it
55:11
is now as we're getting ready to launch it.
55:13
I'm like, I didn't think about that.
55:14
Well, how's that, you know, And so.
55:16
I'm trying to figure this out. It's a little complicated.
55:20
Who'd have thought that solving the world's problems is hard?
55:24
It just reminds me of a line like, hey, if if you'd have told
55:27
me 20 years ago that we'd be solving the world's oil
55:30
problems, I, I've told you you were crazy.
55:33
Now let's, let's get this rubber oil can.
55:36
I don't know what's Cramer's line.
55:37
He's like, help me get this, this rubber container of oil out
55:41
this window. And then, you know, they drop
55:43
the hello. Hello, surely we can we can link
55:50
that on the show notes exactly. Hey, thanks for joining us on
56:00
this episode of Bourbon and Rum Podcast.
56:03
We hope you enjoyed it. Remember to subscribe on your
56:05
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56:08
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56:11
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56:13
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56:16
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56:17
And until next time, cheers, uh.