Latest / Half the Picture / Greg McHugh talks Fresh Meat, Gary: Tank Commander & why taste is so crucial to comedy (4K)

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Greg McHugh talks Fresh Meat, Gary: Tank Commander & why taste is so crucial to comedy (4K) · Half the Picture

• 0:00
  And I read it and went, oh my goodness.
• 0:04
  I think this would change my career massively.
• 0:07
  The first thing I would have seen you in would of course be Fresh Meat.
• 0:09
  Where you played Howard, this great character.
• 0:13
  Classic.
• 0:14
  There was a friendship there very early on that we all got on with each other.
• 0:17
  We all supported each other.
• 0:18
  And we just really fucking liked each other.
• 0:22
  I mean, it was chaos.
• 0:23
  It was absolute chaos.
• 0:24
  I'm not joking.
• 0:25
  I mean, we were quite naughty sometimes.
• 0:27
  Get in and get your face.
• 0:29
  I'd written a sitcom called Gary Tank Commander.
• 0:32
  Nothing prepares you when you turn up and there's all these people there to make your thing.
• 0:38
  There's Greg, and then there's Gary.
• 0:40
  So you're gonna do this for yourselves, you're gonna do it for me, you're gonna do it for the country, but most importantly, you're gonna do it for Gary.
• 0:48
  I am not a drama queen.
• 0:50
  I am the opposite of a drama queen.
• 0:52
  I am a reality queen.
• 0:56
  We have a small favour to ask all of you.
• 0:58
  Please, could you check right now if you've clicked the subscribe button.
• 1:01
  It's one simple, free thing that you could do to help us keep this show free and to keep improving it week after week.
• 1:08
  So please, double check if you've subscribed.
• 1:11
  Thank you so much.
• 1:13
  Going back to Abigail's Party, what you're saying about that, because you were saying something interesting about how, like with Tamsin Alphawait's performance, it doesn't sound like she overplays it.
• 1:22
  But like Beverly, because we had Mike Leon, who did Abigail's Party a while, ages ago.
• 1:26
  And we didn't touch on Abigail's Party, but like having seen it and studied it, like I think it's a play that it's really easy to go over the top.
• 1:35
  But it sounds great that it doesn't.
• 1:38
  There is a real danger that if you over-egg that situation, it just becomes irritating.
• 1:44
  So the balance is keeping the characters real, keeping the interactions believable and sharp and funny.
• 1:50
  And Mike Lee writes with such a rhythm that the rhythm they got last night was so impressive as well.
• 1:56
  How they punctuated the jokes both physically and with the voice.
• 2:00
  and between them, so the dynamic was just beautiful.
• 2:04
  I mean, there was huge laughs just from pauses.
• 2:08
  And that's where, you know, people aren't rushing, they've got control, and they know the audience are there, and they can trust in their own abilities, and that was lovely.
• 2:16
  Like, some of those biggest laughs were just the awkward,
• 2:19
  Oh it was great, it was really great It's all in the timing isn't it But timing is listening And I think people forget that sometimes Timing is good acting Is having a relationship With someone opposite you And last night I thought that was They just nailed it, absolutely nailed it Because they all knew who they were Effectively, but then the writing's great So the writing informs that But then you still need performers that are willing to Get into the detail of it I think
• 2:47
  Is that something that as an actor and comedian you've always had a finger on the pulse of?
• 2:52
  Like the ability to listen and how so much of acting is reacting?
• 2:58
  I'd like to think so.
• 3:00
  I mean, there's always a debate in comedy about instinct and whether people are funny or not.
• 3:07
  You know, there's this ongoing debate about funny bones or they're a funny person.
• 3:11
  Yeah.
• 3:13
  And I don't know, I'm not sure about that because I think there's a lot of technique to really good comedy acting.
• 3:20
  But I think, yeah, you do have to have a...
• 3:24
  a sense of silliness and a sense of what a joke is.
• 3:27
  And I was lucky in that I did stand up, I did improv, I've done a whole history of things, mainly out of just wanting to create work or needing to create work.
• 3:35
  You know, I came out of drama school and couldn't get an agent, couldn't get anything.
• 3:40
  And people had said to me, oh, you're funny.
• 3:44
  A friend at uni said, oh, you should try stand up.
• 3:46
  And I was like, no way, I couldn't do that.
• 3:47
  And then she encouraged me to do it.
• 3:50
  And then by that avenue I started to get obsessed about what a joke was and how a joke works and how you write a joke.
• 3:58
  And I'm not talking about knock knock, I'm talking about what in a story makes something funny, what do you need in those parts?
• 4:04
  And then when I did improv, when I moved to London years later with people, you start to know about you have to listen and improv.
• 4:13
  Otherwise, you're not going to get anywhere or do anything.
• 4:15
  If you're only thinking about what you're going to do, the thing dies very, very quickly.
• 4:20
  So I suppose what I'm saying is I went through an avenue of different things.
• 4:23
  And I think that helped me develop as an actor.
• 4:26
  And I don't see myself as a comedian per se, but I've certainly done a lot of comedy.
• 4:32
  I remember you saying once that because because before you started pursuing acting acting you uh you studied business yeah I want to say and I remember you saying once actually studying business in an interesting way kind of informed your whole approach to show business hugely massively and I didn't realize at the time this is the thing that you of course it's only years on that you kind of link up these little bits in your head but yeah studying business because I started studying sport and that was actually too difficult as Sterling because I wanted to be an
• 4:59
  But the business side of it was about being concise as well, business reports, thinking about what's the through line of this, so that kind of, but in the least number of words.
• 5:08
  And in many ways, comedy is that, poetry is that, good writing is that.
• 5:11
  What are the fewest amount of words?
• 5:13
  You're not trying to, you know, you go and see something and it's loose and all over the place, it's not very good to watch.
• 5:19
  In an odd way, this zigzag in my career of doing a business degree.
• 5:25
  you know it didn't inform everything but it was certainly an important part of yes thinking about the industry as a business and myself as a business but also how do you write a pitch how do you write a pitch document how do you write you know an explanation or an outline a scene outline you know all those kind of things like that so it's funny how what you think is not related to something ends up being quite a crucial part of my journey I suppose
• 5:47
  And now, of course, everyone writes their pitch documents with AI in Chachi BT.
• 5:51
  They do.
• 5:52
  You don't need to do a business degree.
• 5:54
  That's the whole point.
• 5:54
  You don't need to do anything.
• 5:56
  Everything is AI.
• 5:57
  AI can do anything, supposedly.
• 5:59
  Yeah, good luck to people that do that.
• 6:00
  And I don't think there's a huge harm in doing that for an outline or a project to help you kind of be more concise.
• 6:05
  But yeah, these two young women behind me on the bus yesterday were talking about, and they must have been in their 20s, I think.
• 6:11
  talking about how they hated AI and they were saying that the global IQ is about to drop and it was just quite interesting like these two young women talking about how they were dead against it and I thought oh that kind of gives me some hope you know I'm not dead against it for medical purposes but I'm quite against it for
• 6:27
  creative purposes and of course you know I feel a slight victim in AI in terms of you know voice over work is going away and that's becoming a real thing where AI voices are being used and of course for actors AI images and there's a big movement at the moment to make sure we're not being scanned on set you know there was a big movement about that and equity's doing its best so yeah no stick to stick to original business strategies
• 6:52
  Yeah, yeah.
• 6:53
  It's a double-edged sword, isn't it?
• 6:54
  It is, it is.
• 6:55
  When it's used as a tool and it can be used to further the creative process, it seems to me the best.
• 7:00
  No, exactly.
• 7:00
  You can't be dead against every element of it.
• 7:03
  But it's certainly an interesting time because it's changing so quickly all the time as you think, well, where we don't have control of it is, I'm sure, exciting to some people and a threat to others, I suppose.
• 7:15
  Well, going into some of the work that you've done, the first thing I would have seen you in would, of course, be Fresh Meat, where you played Howard, this great character.
• 7:22
  Oh, amazing.
• 7:22
  Yeah, who just, you know, is such a singular presence in that show.
• 7:26
  We did a show full of singular presences.
• 7:27
  I mean, we were touching on some of them earlier, like Kimberly's Josie, who we had on the pod.
• 7:32
  And I have a sort of fascination with that show and how it all came together, because when you watch Fresh Meat, there is such a specific...
• 7:39
  gold in this sort of alchemy of all of you, the main characters and the way that you were cast and the way that you were brought together and the show sort of took form.
• 7:47
  And I did want to ask, there's a kickoff on that.
• 7:50
  Like, how do you remember the Fresh Meat job coming about?
• 7:54
  I remember it very, very clearly indeed, because the context of my career at that point was I'd written a sitcom called Gary Tank Commander about a camp soldier.
• 8:06
  And it was in response, it was a satire about Iraq and Afghanistan and these soldiers who were all mates, kind of Gary's this big, screamingly camp soldier in the army talking about how much he loved the heat and the sunshine in Afghanistan and how lucky he was to get posted there because it was so hot and amazing.
• 8:25
  And I'd done Two series of that show And it had really kind of I'd done some kind of Shorts of it as well And some sketches And it had really taken off The character just Kind of in Scotland Not in England And even at that stage After series two I thought
• 8:41
  Oh man, how am I going to get out of this?
• 8:45
  Is this going to be my career?
• 8:46
  I'm going to end up in Scotland the rest of my career.
• 8:48
  And then this script came through and auditioned for Fresh Meat.
• 8:52
  And I read it and went, oh my goodness, that is astounding.
• 8:57
  I'll always remember reading what they sent through and going,
• 9:01
  this is brilliant but not only is it brilliant I think this would change my career massively because I've shown the big comedy side of me and now I see this guy as powerful in the house and then crumbles the minute he leaves the house that was my take on Howard so when I went to audition and David Kerr was a director and Rhonda Smith producing
• 9:30
  the...
• 9:31
  I was very nervous but I knew exactly what I wanted to do with the character, right?
• 9:35
  Because the writing was so good.
• 9:37
  I mean actors love to tell you, oh and I created this character called Howard.
• 9:42
  No you didn't.
• 9:43
  You didn't create the character, Howard.
• 9:44
  Howard was on the page and it is slight changes between actors but roughly talking the writer has created or should have created a really rich character and they did and Sam and Jesse and all the other writers were phenomenal.
• 9:59
  And after that audition, I then had to audition, I think another three or four times.
• 10:04
  And as the years went on, I heard whispers that, some kind of joking, but I think this was very true, is that they just didn't see some of the people involved.
• 10:13
  And I'm never quite sure who it was.
• 10:15
  but they didn't see Howard like that.
• 10:16
  So what someone in the camp did, and then someone else in the camp did, but there was other voices that didn't see Howard like I saw him.
• 10:25
  So I had to keep auditioning and keep auditioning for it and trying to prove.
• 10:28
  And then eventually it went my way, thankfully, because it was career changing.
• 10:33
  And I was in an alleyway in Glasgow.
• 10:36
  My phone had gone off and it was very busy.
• 10:38
  And I went up this alleyway and my agent said, you've got Howard.
• 10:42
  And I went, no, no.
• 10:44
  Like I couldn't.
• 10:45
  My mind was blown.
• 10:46
  But she said, yeah, but you're going to have to move to Manchester next week.
• 10:51
  And my now wife, but my girlfriend at the time, I had to tell her that, oh my goodness, this is happening.
• 10:56
  But I'm going to be away for the next three months.
• 10:59
  So I remember it so clearly.
• 11:01
  I'll never forget that call.
• 11:03
  Because A, I wanted it so badly, but B, it was the polar opposite of what I'd been doing.
• 11:08
  So you can imagine the excitement, the prospect.
• 11:10
  And then I met the meters.
• 11:14
  We did a read through and I just thought, oh, this is really special.
• 11:19
  I'll never forget the read through either because I knew Jack a little bit from London.
• 11:22
  I knew Joe a little bit from Sketch.
• 11:26
  But after we did the read through and Charlotte hadn't even been cast yet.
• 11:30
  Do you know this?
• 11:31
  I don't think I knew Charlotte.
• 11:32
  I think Charlotte was at uni, wasn't she?
• 11:34
  Right?
• 11:34
  She was, yeah.
• 11:35
  She was youngest, but at the read through they were a little bit cruel to her.
• 11:39
  She didn't have the actual full offer for the part yet.
• 11:42
  So she did the read through and then they went and had a meeting.
• 11:45
  And thankfully, I mean, I couldn't imagine anyone else playing organ.
• 11:50
  And then all of us just clicked like so much on that read.
• 11:54
  It was really special.
• 11:56
  Something you said there about how with Howard when you were auditioning, like some certain parties in the company weren't sure if, oh, is Howard this or is he that?
• 12:06
  Kim said something similar on when she came on the show, which was that because she originally auditioned for Oregon.
• 12:11
  Yeah.
• 12:12
  And then I think in the last audition, Sam Bain said, look, I know you've been auditioning for Oregon, but would you mind auditioning for Josie?
• 12:18
  Yeah, yeah.
• 12:19
  And she'd never done her Welsh accent on screen really before.
• 12:22
  And she was talking about that, how she played her Welsh, but originally the conception was that she wasn't Welsh.
• 12:27
  She was kind of this middle class English girl.
• 12:30
  So it's interesting to hear that the characters, there were different ideas of the characters.
• 12:34
  as early as that and then before they took form when you guys really stepped into the shoes?
• 12:38
  Yeah, I suppose in the room with the people and obviously they tape it and they send it to other people is hopefully as an actor you get to go in and show your side of it.
• 12:49
  So I don't think they had Howard as a Scot in it and of course it leads to the best reveal of all time that his mum and dad lived around the corner in Manchester.
• 12:57
  Yeah.
• 12:57
  Which I remember laughing at uncontrollably once I read that script.
• 13:01
  But yeah, no, it is interesting.
• 13:02
  Yeah, like Josie being Welsh and me being Scottish and Jack being, Jack slightly posher and Joe being kind of middle class as well as...
• 13:13
  Charlie, yeah, that dynamics seemed to work.
• 13:16
  And then, you know, as an actor, it's never explained to you that the conversations are had.
• 13:20
  You know, you don't ever, no one ever sits you down and says, look, let me just let you into how this was all decided.
• 13:25
  We still don't know.
• 13:26
  We just know that we got the part.
• 13:28
  But of course, when audiences like that, you start to think about, oh yeah, oh, that's great.
• 13:34
  That's quite fun.
• 13:35
  But I still don't know officially how it all, who wanted what.
• 13:40
  but hey it did it came together and like I said there's real alchemy like I was saying when I said to Kim I said like it's hard to imagine any of you any of those characters being played by anyone else well that's very nice well it is it's impossible for us I suppose as well but um but we got on so well and there is an alchemy there was a friendship there very early on that we all got on with each other we all supported each other and we just really kind of liked each other and I think
• 14:07
  It's kind of obvious to say, but in a workplace where you all get on very well, it just makes for a better environment.
• 14:13
  So obviously we've got these astounding scripts, Sam and Jesse and all the writers, every single writer, it was team written.
• 14:20
  And that's very important to remember.
• 14:22
  And in the UK it's quite rare, even to this day, that things are team written because the money's just not there.
• 14:27
  So Fresh Meat was actually commissioned via the drama budget at Channel 4.
• 14:33
  So if it had been done as a sitcom budget, they wouldn't have been able to afford that many writers.
• 14:37
  And it would have been a very different show, I think, and not as successful, which is a good learning curve that we still haven't learned properly in this country about put the money in, you'll get the results.
• 14:48
  But yeah, so I think on set, the alchemy was built out of a friendship and a love for each other
• 14:54
  and the great scripts so but of course you don't have anything without great scripts you can be the best pals in the world you can get on beautifully we've got a script you don't have a show so so writing writing writing and then our friendship alchemy and abilities hopefully was was what helped well it sounds like such an authentic friendship that you guys shared i mean when uh when kim came on again like
• 15:15
  She was saying how it did feel like, almost like an authentic university experience, like an actual house share, like the fact that you guys were kind of living on top of each other while making that show.
• 15:24
  Is that what it was actually like?
• 15:25
  Yeah, it was.
• 15:26
  It was very much, I think again, if we'd shot it in London where you shoot during the day and then everyone goes home at night, I don't think it would have been quite the same
• 15:34
  show or experience, but we were in Manchester, living in Manchester in these apartments, next door to each other.
• 15:40
  I mean, it was chaos.
• 15:42
  It was absolute chaos.
• 15:43
  I'm not joking.
• 15:43
  I mean, we were quite naughty sometimes.
• 15:46
  I mean, you know, I'm older now, I couldn't do it anyway, but we would go out.
• 15:49
  I'm sure Kim must have mentioned that we would shoot all day together
• 15:54
  It's a long day.
• 15:55
  You know, it's 10 hours.
• 15:55
  We're all, most of us in most of the seasons, you know, most days of the week.
• 15:59
  And then we'd all say, all right, where are we going for dinner tonight?
• 16:02
  I mean, that's not usual.
• 16:04
  You'd want a break from people.
• 16:05
  You'd go, all right, no, I've just been with you all day.
• 16:07
  We didn't.
• 16:08
  We would shoot all day and then go for dinner at night and then not always go out, but we had a lot of nights out, like quite big nights out and managed to get through the shooting.
• 16:18
  I think we drove them a little bit crazy on the production in that respect sometimes, but then we got on with stuff as well.
• 16:25
  I think we were professional enough to keep it together.
• 16:29
  Do you remember any of the antics you guys would get up to?
• 16:32
  Is there anything you can share about those times?
• 16:35
  Not massively.
• 16:36
  I mean, we would just go to dinner and laugh our socks off and have some wine.
• 16:41
  And then on the weekends, we would occasionally go a bit nuts and be out very, very late.
• 16:46
  But no, just fun.
• 16:49
  Just good fun.
• 16:50
  I remember Kim told the story about how, because there's a whole little subplot in at least one of the episodes of Fresh Meat where they hire a barge.
• 17:00
  And Kim said you guys actually did hire a barge.
• 17:03
  Yeah, we did.
• 17:03
  We did.
• 17:04
  Little Venice.
• 17:05
  We hired a barge and then met up and had an afternoon together.
• 17:11
  And it is, like we're not the characters, I'm not Howard, and Jack is not JP either for the record.
• 17:17
  And you know, we're all our own people, we're all very kind of, yeah, we are, we're all very different I think from our characters in many ways.
• 17:25
  But yeah, we did, we met up and retreated the barge and just had a laugh.
• 17:29
  I mean, you can imagine like,
• 17:32
  that chemistry on screen is genuine because when we're off screen and we're all meeting up we're just howling with laughter and taking the piss out of each other and um yeah we're just a lovely unit it's just it's tough tough air as you get older we don't see each other as much but i'm sure we would see each other a lot more if we could you know who do you think of the uh out of interest who do you think of the various actors is uh least like their character
• 17:58
  Well, I'd hope it was me.
• 18:02
  Because I don't, Howard's a very, very odd man.
• 18:07
  But there must be, you know, there's odd sides to me.
• 18:09
  Of course there are, there must be.
• 18:12
  Zowie's not like Vod at all.
• 18:17
  Zowie's just a remarkable, she's just a brilliant human, incredible actor as well.
• 18:24
  Like I've talked about this in the past as well, but I learned so much from Zowie.
• 18:28
  on the set.
• 18:29
  She'd done a huge amount of theatre,
• 18:33
  And lots of TV before I'd worked with her And I had just done TV I hadn't really done I'd done theatre at drama school But I'd not done any professional stuff And I was obsessed by Zawi's approach to scenes Where she would come in And she'd be like Right, right, right Well, yeah, do the lines Yeah, that's easy I can move there But what am I doing here?
• 18:51
  What's my business?
• 18:53
  Can I get a cigarette?
• 18:55
  Can you find me to the props team?
• 18:58
  Very politely But like, can you find me something?
• 19:00
  Right, can I do that?
• 19:01
  Can we get that there?
• 19:02
  So if you watch Fresh Meat, she'll often be doing something and she'll punctuate jokes with like rolling a cigarette or when she's doing it.
• 19:10
  And then for most actors it's like don't give me anything because continuity wise this will be a nightmare, I'll have to match this, I'll ruin every take.
• 19:17
  And Zali was always wanting a thing.
• 19:20
  So when you watch her performances there's always a brilliant movement, there'll always be a little extra thing that she does that just is vaude.
• 19:28
  And I tried to do that with Howard, but I was never as confident.
• 19:31
  I watched her and went, oh my goodness, you are brilliant.
• 19:34
  I mean, everyone in it is brilliant, but Zao really kind of was like, oh yeah, I should be thinking more on set.
• 19:40
  What else can I add to this to get it a bit more heightened?
• 19:44
  Yeah.
• 19:44
  Do you have a moment where, or a memory of where you took that approach and used it for Howard?
• 19:49
  Because Howard, I want to say, he has, of all the characters in some ways, he is the one that has the most close relationship to the house, in many ways, the environment.
• 19:56
  You know, he is kind of, he's part of it.
• 19:58
  He is.
• 19:59
  The house is part of him and he is the kind of leader in a very strange way of the house.
• 20:06
  that I was very keen to get across, that yeah, that's his fortress.
• 20:08
  And then when he leaves the fortress, he's, the outside world is kryptonite to Howard.
• 20:14
  You know, he just, he crumbles, he's weakened by everything outside.
• 20:17
  Yeah, I mean, I tried as Howard to kind of just make it interesting or textured.
• 20:23
  I remember, oh my, this is a scene me and Zowie couldn't get through actually.
• 20:29
  It was, I think it got cut in the end because I couldn't stop laughing.
• 20:33
  I had to eat a jar of peanut butter.
• 20:35
  while chatting to Zell and I couldn't speak and do it and she was howling we used to me and her used to corpse um really badly together we loved our scenes of Vaude and Howard um so I remember that kind of business just went totally wrong for me but giving someone peanut butter to eat out of a jar if I was trying to deliver lines that's just cruelty um quite frankly
• 21:00
  It gets quite sickly after a while.
• 21:01
  Oh, it does, yeah.
• 21:02
  And you're doing a lot of takes, especially if you're ruining takes, you're doing extra takes as well.
• 21:06
  So I remember that.
• 21:08
  I think we had to stop that scene, actually.
• 21:11
  That's naughty.
• 21:14
  It's claggy.
• 21:14
  It's claggy.
• 21:15
  Yeah.
• 21:16
  It's gross, you know.
• 21:19
  And then with Howard then, going, sort of zoning in on him, do you have a favourite sort of Howard moment or a favourite Howard line that when you go back to freshman, when you look at it, you go, oh, this is, that you sort of latch onto, like, oh, that's my favourite, that's one of my proudest moments?
• 21:38
  There's loads of moments with Howard.
• 21:42
  There's almost too many to mention I think one of my favourite speeches though Is in the The Brian episode With his nemesis And I have this Chat about Um
• 21:59
  I storm into the bar And I think I've just had a fight I might be wrong about this But I think I've just had a fight with Brian And someone accuses Howard of being a drama queen And I I am not a drama queen I am the opposite of a drama queen I'm a reality queen So there's so many bits And actually I'm
• 22:20
  There was a sweet relationship thing with Josie and Howard.
• 22:24
  I always like really fondly, me and Kim have talked about this, is Howard's upset about something one day in the house and she says, would you like some apple crumble?
• 22:31
  And there's these little tiny things where you, it's not always, I think that's what's so clever about the writing and the characters is there's these little drops of friendship in it that stick in my mind as well.
• 22:46
  And then of course the buffet scene with Zowie I remember shooting that That was at 8 o'clock on a Sunday morning In Manchester when the restaurant was obviously shut So we could film on it And having to eat lots of Chinese food And that was just a riot to shoot But it was quite a technical shoot Just the set up of food and angles And the way it was cut When you look at it There's lots and lots of different shots So I've got so many fond memories of
• 23:14
  know i just don't have any kind of negative vibes from that you know often you do three series four series of a show and some of it you'd be a bit like oh yeah and i didn't like that but no with that there's howard was just such a joy to play yeah yeah i i totally agree about the the implicit little details of like you say howard and josey or i think howard and jp is another really good example of that yeah unlikely friendships absolutely yeah yeah and i think that's the reality isn't it
• 23:42
  And hopefully the audience has enjoyed that.
• 23:44
  As the show goes on, you know, JP goes in with this ridiculously...
• 23:51
  arrogant attitude nutsford and slagging off Howard and series one repeatedly and then we're just hating him really and then over time again the cleverness of the writing and the cleverness I suppose is adapting to the actors that are in it as well and seeing their strengths or seeing where they sit with the other characters the dynamic and that's another skill of the writing is that you know the writers would all have meetings going right before we're doing in series two well I like that bit of
• 24:17
  in series one or whatever between Jack and Greg or the characters obviously Howard and JP is that I think the writers really tuned in to where the dynamics worked better in the show and yeah as you say hopefully you get a real spread of
• 24:35
  ridiculousness but these little punctuated marks of oh yeah they really are buddies and they're always nice to play those scenes you know big funny slapsticky or or confrontational scenes are great but there's something in your day where you get a nice little sweet scene and it makes you feel good it's true it's really true absolutely yeah do you have a favorite memory of working with jack on that on that subject
• 25:01
  Jack is such a good actor and he doesn't need me to say, well, hasn't he done well in his career, right?
• 25:08
  Because it's evidently he has, but I don't think he gets enough credit as an actor.
• 25:13
  And I think he's gone to the States, knocked out of the park.
• 25:18
  He tours around the UK as a stand-up, but he's a shit-hot actor because he's incredibly professional and incredibly detailed.
• 25:26
  right?
• 25:27
  And people go, oh, what's Jack like?
• 25:29
  Is he just a big posho?
• 25:31
  No, he's incredibly funny like face to face.
• 25:35
  He's self-effacing as well.
• 25:39
  But my memories of me and Jack doing scenes as J.P. and Howard is like just detail.
• 25:43
  We would be like, right, how do we get that funnier and funnier and funnier?
• 25:47
  So I just loved working with Jack as well.
• 25:50
  But in terms
• 25:56
  Oh God, I mean, I don't know if I could tell you a specific one.
• 26:00
  I don't know if you've got any that stand out, but I think just him having a go at Howard for being so weird in his bedroom repeatedly just kind of makes me laugh.
• 26:09
  But it's funny because I don't go back and watch it.
• 26:12
  So it might seem like, well, I don't remember specifics.
• 26:15
  It's because I don't really go back and watch a lot of what I've done.
• 26:19
  So I suppose my overall picture isn't as specific as maybe an audience that watches it, if that makes sense.
• 26:24
  Absolutely.
• 26:25
  Absolutely.
• 26:26
  So it's not really a show, so you don't really go back and look at your work by and large?
• 26:30
  No.
• 26:30
  It's not really a thing that you do?
• 26:32
  No, I think maybe I should look at some stuff more, but you end up just going, oh, what did I miss there?
• 26:37
  Or I look terrible in that, or, oh, that could have been better.
• 26:41
  You know, it's very much having your own work.
• 26:44
  You don't look at yourself and,
• 26:47
  or I don't and go oh isn't that great I think it's probably a terrible habit that.
• 26:51
  I remember speaking to another actor about it and they were like Greg you've got to get over that because it's not about you either liking or disliking it's realising what you're doing and you can learn from that but I wouldn't say I go and rush to watch stuff that I've done I just hopefully enjoy the work and feel I've done my best but I don't re-watch stuff.
• 27:11
  I mean, quite odd, I think, if you did.
• 27:13
  I don't know about other actors.
• 27:15
  Did Kim say, did she rewatch it?
• 27:17
  I don't know if Kim said she watches herself.
• 27:20
  It's funny, we had another actress on recently called Carla Crome, who's an actress and writer.
• 27:23
  She did Misfits, and she just did that new show possession.
• 27:26
  She's somebody who does like to watch back what she does.
• 27:28
  She described it as like baking a cake and then not eating it.
• 27:31
  because she likes to watch, you know, just, I guess, to see the work that she's done.
• 27:36
  But I think it's quite common for people to see it, as you say, not to look... Yeah.
• 27:41
  I mean, being in mind Fresh Meat was what, I don't know how many years ago, was it 12 years ago or something like that?
• 27:46
  So it's been quite a while.
• 27:47
  I mean, I did watch a bit of an episode...
• 27:52
  the other week and in fact I messaged Tony Gardner who plays Shales the next day, I messaged him saying, Tony that performance is just brilliant, I'd forgotten how good Tony is in it.
• 28:04
  A very very good actor, very funny and actually a nightmare to be opposite because he's so funny, he's so dry in that and kind of despicable.
• 28:14
  But brilliant, he just plays on the right side of, you know, obviously it's got an abusive, effectively, relationship between Shales and Oregon.
• 28:22
  But he just keeps on the right side of it.
• 28:25
  Which is, he's a really, I mean, everyone they brought in was just top class actors, really.
• 28:30
  So no, I did watch a bit of that episode the other week.
• 28:33
  So it was nice to see, you know, someone else being great in it.
• 28:36
  There is something about how a character can be utterly appalling, like Shales.
• 28:40
  You know, he can do appalling stuff and be quite despicable.
• 28:43
  But if he can make you laugh, that goes such a long way to sort of making him palatable.
• 28:50
  It does.
• 28:51
  And we're talking it's fine margins.
• 28:53
  You know, a bit like Abigail's party last night where the actors are just on the right side of it.
• 29:00
  And there's a real discipline to that.
• 29:02
  But then, of course, we need to attribute the directors on the show.
• 29:05
  We had great directors on Fresh Meat.
• 29:07
  And they are the overlords of performance.
• 29:10
  You know, they are the ones that will be choosing it in the edit and which, you know, which of the takes is the strongest.
• 29:15
  And, you know, for David Kerr, who set the show, I think he set the tone incredibly well.
• 29:24
  I mean, I was going to tell you a story there that
• 29:28
  Yeah, I can say this actually.
• 29:29
  A director came in to the show, who I will not say who it was, and I don't think this is on public record, but I will say this because there's no harm in it.
• 29:40
  And the director came in and wanted to change the tone of the show entirely.
• 29:46
  And we were all very confused by this.
• 29:48
  And this director wanted us to play it more straight, like a drama drama, but the scripts are comedy.
• 29:56
  And that director lasted two days.
• 30:00
  And to be fair to the production, they came in and, I don't know the behind the scenes conversations, whether it was an ultimatum or whatever, but that director was gone.
• 30:09
  And because the production and Channel 4 knew the tone that we had to keep and what was working, so he wasn't the first director.
• 30:18
  So David Kerr had set the tone of the show, and that's really important.
• 30:21
  It's like, if you get that wrong, you're not going to get another series.
• 30:26
  So the minutiae and the great performances, and sorry, just going back to what you're saying about Shales' character, is you have to keep an eye on how horrible, because by nature of what they're doing is quite murky.
• 30:40
  area so tribute to all the directors bar the one that didn't work out for keeping the tone right and keeping us on track you get more used to as the show goes on your decision making becomes more fluent because you understand the character better but you need directors that have got the choice of going that's the take no more we're good moving on and that's a great skill so it's not again scripts acting but you need directors and of course you need all the amazing crew that we had who were
• 31:09
  all fantastic yeah yeah it says a lot doesn't it they're like you know you can be smart you could be talented you can be you know all of those things but if but taste is so important isn't it when it comes to comedy or just creativity yeah taste is taste is everything you know there's there's no escaping um
• 31:29
  the realities that not everyone has the same sense of humour, right?
• 31:33
  Of course they don't, comedy is so subjective.
• 31:37
  But there are some awful things that keep getting recommissioned.
• 31:40
  And I find it interesting, the definition of taste, because me saying, oh, there's some awful comedies out there that keeps commission, that's just my opinion and someone else would say, oh, no, I don't agree with you.
• 31:53
  But if we're talking about taste as a thing,
• 31:57
  I think the really good comedies stand out in a different way to popular, mega popular comedies.
• 32:03
  But, of course I'm going to say that I'm a wanky actor, I'm not.
• 32:07
  I'm going to argue that point, but I think taste is, in the great comedies, people tend to agree on that, and would agree on other good comedies in that field.
• 32:21
  But, I'm being a bit cryptic there, but I think people roughly know what I'm talking about.
• 32:25
  Well, for you, what are the great comedies when it comes to exactly that, like what we're talking about with taste?
• 32:30
  What do you think are examples of the great comedies that have that taste?
• 32:33
  Well, I mean, obviously as a kid, you grow and you evolve.
• 32:40
  But I mean, I've always loved Dad's Army.
• 32:43
  Just loved it.
• 32:44
  You know, if we're talking on the broader spectrum...
• 32:47
  Dad's Army is one of the funniest things ever written.
• 32:50
  And then I loved Alo Alo growing up.
• 32:53
  And a lot of people were like, what were you talking about?
• 32:55
  But there's something about the technical nature of Alo Alo and the slapstick and the physicality and the ridiculousness of it.
• 33:02
  I'm not saying they're the best sitcoms of all time, but they're things that I think are inherently funny to me.
• 33:09
  Partridge, Coogan, I mean you can not, Spaced.
• 33:13
  Fawlty Towers I found difficult to watch as a kid.
• 33:16
  I found it very stressful and then I grew up and re-watched Fawlty Towers going, oh my goodness, oh my goodness.
• 33:23
  And then you've, yeah, I mean, there's so many good ones.
• 33:28
  And then Motherland as well, brilliant show.
• 33:32
  Amanda Land.
• 33:36
  There's so many, so many.
• 33:38
  And those are what you say Are some of your favourite Of the more recent comedies Like yeah Amanda Land And Love The Land Yeah Yeah I think I think those things Are just proper Laugh out loud funny It's kind of tricky To get kind of Real Yeah real laugh out loud stuff But yeah I'd say they're One of my favourites Of the recent past And do you have any others That like you're Sort of going back to a lot That have come out Quite recently Sparking your interest Would you say
• 34:03
  Do you know at the moment, sometimes comedy is kind of tougher for me to watch because it just feels like work.
• 34:11
  Whereas I watch a lot of films and a lot of documentaries and stuff like that.
• 34:14
  There's sometimes I'll almost actively avoid a comedy because I just don't really want to examine it, you know, if I'm at home or if I've been filming or whatever.
• 34:24
  And I'm not someone who sits and watches a huge amount of sitcoms, I suppose, because I've just done so much comedy, it kind of, it feels more like work.
• 34:33
  Well, that of interest, what kind of films and documentaries have you been watching?
• 34:37
  Well, I am incredibly repetitive about films.
• 34:39
  I've got about six or seven films I just kind of watch on repeat, from Silence of the Lambs, Saving Private Ryan, Gladiator, Goodfellas, Casino, Jaws, and Munich.
• 34:50
  I'm a bit obsessed by Munich as a film, which...
• 34:53
  I don't know how you feel about that, but not to get too heavy into the world affairs, but I look at the film Munich and it's as relevant now as it was when it was made.
• 35:05
  You know, it's just about the futility of revenge.
• 35:09
  And I think, I don't know, my wife thinks I'm absolutely insane.
• 35:11
  She's like, can you not watch anything lighthearted?
• 35:13
  LAUGHTER
• 35:14
  as your go-to movies.
• 35:15
  All my movies are all quite heavy, Goodfellas, Casino, Saving Private Ryan and Munich.
• 35:21
  I don't know what that says about me, but I think maybe again it's just opposite.
• 35:24
  I've done so much comedies that I find an odd relief in horror, or the horrors of the films.
• 35:29
  I'm not into horror genre massively.
• 35:32
  And Jaws is the most light-hearted one of the bunch.
• 35:35
  Yeah, that big E.T.
• 35:36
  Shark is just a bit of a giggle, isn't it, compared to the realities of Palestine and Israel in Munich.
• 35:42
  But yeah, I mean, but the likes of these films, I read, well, I didn't read it.
• 35:47
  I saw Kim talking about Princess Bride.
• 35:50
  And that was a huge inspiration for me growing up.
• 35:52
  In fact, that's the first film I remember watching once and then rewinding it and watching it again on a video.
• 35:59
  I was at afternoon of whatever, just do you want to rent a video back in the day?
• 36:04
  And I watched that twice back to back.
• 36:07
  And that must have had something to do with my want of getting into comedy, I suppose.
• 36:12
  Have you ever done that as an adult, where ever re-watched something immediately after watching it?
• 36:18
  No, I don't think I have.
• 36:19
  That's a really good question.
• 36:21
  I think The Princess Bride is the only thing I can remember watching, you know, in a four-hour, or however long it is, an hour for it, back-to-back again.
• 36:29
  I mean the last film I wanted to do that was The Holdovers, is it?
• 36:37
  Holdovers?
• 36:37
  Yeah The Holdovers, Alexander Payne I think that's the last film I watched and I finished it and went oh I could just watch that again.
• 36:43
  I absolutely loved that film, really really loved it but yeah that's the one that stands out recently.
• 36:51
  And again, that's a lighter one, although it's tragedy, tragedy comedy, but beautiful, isn't it?
• 36:55
  Beautiful, absolutely beautiful, but hilarious as well.
• 36:57
  Hilarious, absolutely hilarious.
• 36:59
  I told you, Matt, it's just incredible, effortless.
• 37:03
  You know, that's the thing, isn't it, with acting, when you see someone who's, you're not quite aware of what he's doing that's so great, but he's just so great.
• 37:13
  You know, he's one of those actors, isn't he?
• 37:14
  You're just like, why, why?
• 37:17
  Why, how, or how actually, how are you doing that?
• 37:21
  It's like I did a film with Toby Jones years ago called Marvelous, which is a really beautiful film.
• 37:27
  And I was a small part in it.
• 37:29
  But it was a very, very special film, actually.
• 37:31
  In fact, the auditioning part of that stands out in my career.
• 37:35
  I read this script by a writer called Peter Bowker, who wrote The A Word.
• 37:40
  I ended up working with Peter on that.
• 37:42
  And when I read the script I was at a kitchen table in Camden and I started crying, right?
• 37:49
  Very unlike me in terms of work because you're reading a script and you're analysing how I'm going to play this part or want to play the part for the audition And my wife said, what are you reading?
• 38:03
  And I'm like, I just never read a more beautiful script.
• 38:05
  I'm like, this is so moving and stunning.
• 38:08
  But I wasn't reading for the nice part, and I was reading for a part I knew I wasn't going to get.
• 38:12
  I wasn't right for it, and I couldn't access it.
• 38:14
  But I read the script a huge amount of times, maybe five or six, seven times.
• 38:18
  And I went into the audition.
• 38:20
  The director was a chap called Julian Farino, amazing director.
• 38:24
  He did a lot of these seven-up documentaries, you know, in their seven photos to him.
• 38:28
  So he came from a documentary background, very empathetic guy, lovely dude.
• 38:31
  And we did the audition and I knew, I just knew, and he knew I wasn't right for the part.
• 38:38
  And I was just really pleased to have met him and read this beautiful script anyway.
• 38:42
  I was really pleased.
• 38:43
  I left a bit like, well, well, that's not going to work out.
• 38:46
  And my agent phoned me as I was leaving the building.
• 38:48
  She said, where are you?
• 38:49
  I said, well, you know what?
• 38:49
  I've just done that audition.
• 38:51
  I don't think I'm right for that part.
• 38:52
  She went, yeah, but they want to see you.
• 38:54
  Would you go back in for a different part?
• 38:56
  And I said, what, not for Malcolm?
• 38:58
  She went, yeah, for Malcolm.
• 39:00
  I was like...
• 39:01
  What?
• 39:02
  And she said, yeah, but Julian's saying, would you be okay cold reading it?
• 39:06
  It's cold.
• 39:06
  You know, you're not going to have time to look through it.
• 39:08
  It was literally within 20 minutes.
• 39:10
  And I said, oh my God, I've read the script about six times.
• 39:12
  I know that part inside out.
• 39:14
  So I went and that's the part I got.
• 39:16
  And that is, and the film is stunning, but just in terms of actors who are effortless, you don't know.
• 39:21
  I used to go to set to watch Toby because I just wanted to see how he would go through a scene.
• 39:27
  I find him so inspiring as an actor.
• 39:30
  So he's another one of these actors I would put in that league of... Yeah.
• 39:35
  Because in the film, Marvelous, he's playing a guy, it's based on a true story, who you would probably say has additional needs.
• 39:42
  Or the chap in question, Nello, Neil Baldwin, doesn't want to be defined by that for his life.
• 39:49
  He just decides he wants to be happy.
• 39:51
  It's kind of a key theme in the film.
• 39:53
  And I remember seeing Toby and he's just on his own in this room.
• 40:01
  And it's very difficult to explain, but the energy he had standing in this quite an emotional scene, I was like, why am I moved by you standing on your own in a room?
• 40:14
  And I always remember that, going, there's something about some actors that is kind of otherworldly.
• 40:21
  And that's always stood in my head as him on his own and me going, why am I so involved in this scene where you standing?
• 40:32
  Yeah.
• 40:33
  How do you mean otherworldly?
• 40:35
  In what kind of sense?
• 40:38
  I mean, there's people that can hold a space, hold a room.
• 40:44
  I went to see a play a couple of weeks ago in Edinburgh for the opening of the International Festival, Wagner Moura.
• 40:52
  Do you know the Brazilian actor?
• 40:55
  He plays Pablo Escobar in Narcos and I saw him on stage and he was another one.
• 41:02
  Where there is something It's very difficult to explain About how someone holds themselves And I don't think it can be taught actually There's something about presence And otherworldly I don't know It's just someone who walks on And you're like Captivated There are certain people Certain actors And I don't think they can explain it There's just something in there There's something in there
• 41:23
  presence they've got a kind of magnetism yeah yeah yeah it's interesting how it is how like toby jones definitely i agree as someone who has that i mean i've always been a big fan of yeah and he's got such because he is such an interesting almost slightly skew-iff presence in some of the movies he does yeah but you can't take your eyes off you can't and that's he studied clowning he told me and i don't know if there's something about the clowning presence of how you know a
• 41:51
  It's not always about big movements with clowning.
• 41:53
  It can just sometimes be how a clown arrives onto that space, onto that spot, and the silence of the audience is on them.
• 42:03
  Some of it's technical, but some of it is really held within the person, I think.
• 42:08
  Well, I mean, in some ways, linking that back to Howard.
• 42:11
  Yes.
• 42:12
  Howard's otherworldly.
• 42:13
  He is pretty otherworldly.
• 42:14
  I mean, it's fair to say.
• 42:17
  I heard from Jesse Armstrong and Sam Bain when they were putting together the show that there's a... Each of the characters in Fresh Meat are kind of wrapped around this idea of...
• 42:28
  being uni students and pretending to be something that, pretending to be something when actually there's something else.
• 42:34
  And I asked him that question, like, what do you think Josie was pretending to be?
• 42:38
  And she gave me this long, quite in-depth answer about how much she learned from playing Josie.
• 42:43
  And I wanted to ask you the same thing, like, who do you think Howard was pretending to be and who do you think he really was?
• 42:48
  Do you know what I would argue?
• 42:52
  That Howard...
• 42:54
  is the only one in the house who knows who he is.
• 43:00
  There is a stage in it where they do a kind of odd, glow up or, you know, they try and change his image, Baud tries to change his image and stuff.
• 43:10
  And that's just like comedic.
• 43:13
  But Howard doesn't really pretend to be anyone else in it.
• 43:16
  And I think that's why he is the kind of rock of the house.
• 43:20
  Oregon is, of course, trying to be someone else.
• 43:22
  And so is Josie and JP and Kingsley's ultimately always try to find himself.
• 43:30
  But I kind of feel like Howard is who he is because he can't...
• 43:34
  He's not really into pretence, Howard.
• 43:36
  He's very straight-talking.
• 43:39
  And I think that's what works well in the house.
• 43:44
  And eventually, the house is quite drawn to Howard because he's the kind of more solid of the characters there, whereas everyone else is a bit, you know, pretending, pretending, trying to find themselves.
• 43:54
  And it's kind of hinted at that Howard's a bit older in the show as well, so maybe the experience is just a little bit more advanced.
• 44:00
  But I'd argue that Howard does...
• 44:02
  Who he is Throughout pretty much the whole show Apart from when they dress him up a bit Yeah he's a character As you say he's a rock The other characters almost come back to him So much There's a lot of coming back to Howard After stuff has happened Yeah that's right Because I don't think Howard has any interest Well he does want to impress He wants to be loved Howard doesn't he With Sabine You know the other on off girlfriends That he has throughout the show Yeah
• 44:30
  But ultimately he's more solid than the rest of them by a mile.
• 44:36
  Because he's not really pretending.
• 44:37
  He doesn't need to find himself in the way that the other characters.
• 44:43
  I wouldn't say Josie's superficial.
• 44:46
  Oregon is more superficial.
• 44:47
  Vod's not superficial actually.
• 44:51
  But they're all trying stuff out.
• 44:53
  And Howard doesn't feel the need to do that.
• 44:55
  And what you just said there about how there's an implicitness about how Howard might be a bit older, even just a bit, than the other housemates.
• 45:02
  Do you think the fact that you were, I think I want to say, also the oldest of the main actors, do you think that fed into that at all?
• 45:10
  I don't know.
• 45:12
  Yeah, possibly.
• 45:12
  They used to wind me up for being older and I think I probably was in the friendship group and probably still am the slightly more elder influence.
• 45:25
  But we're all equally stupid, I have to say, in our silly personalities.
• 45:29
  But yeah, maybe it did.
• 45:30
  Maybe you'd have to ask the writers about that and see if that fed into it.
• 45:35
  Yeah.
• 45:36
  I think once you'd established who Howard was in series one, then I think that seemed to work.
• 45:42
  So yeah, in two and three and four, yeah, that did continue, I think, if memory serves.
• 45:50
  Well, I mean, speaking of the writers, and we've talked about them a lot already, Jesse Armstrong and Sam Bain being the two main ones, but of course, two absolutely in British comedy anyway, and beyond, you know, with stuff like Succession, they've got such a great reputation for the work they've done.
• 46:02
  They're incredible.
• 46:03
  What would they like to work with?
• 46:05
  just a joy just a joy really positive individuals like they are really welcoming and sam is very very calm quietly spoken jesse is just a ball of positive energy they're super respectful loved what we were doing with the characters um
• 46:25
  And I've mentioned this before, it was very disciplined though, there was no improvisation, there was no mucking about with the scripts, you know, you weren't there to go, oh can I change the order of that or can I do that?
• 46:38
  You weren't there to do that because they'd crafted the scripts.
• 46:41
  So they're absolutely lovely But they're also just Shit hot writers So you had to respect their work as well And I think that's the way it should be I think if you're given a script That is brilliant Don't muck about with it Keep it as it is So lovely guys But you were of course They were right Is that no no we need that said I mean people did kind of challenge that It would often It would often
• 47:03
  it would often be rejected.
• 47:04
  Everything had to be checked through Sam and Jesse.
• 47:06
  They were execs and they were writers.
• 47:09
  And I think that's right.
• 47:10
  They know how to stand up for their own work.
• 47:12
  And as a result, we've got a great show.
• 47:15
  Because there is a danger in shows, and I've been on things where writers are maybe not held in enough esteem and the scripts get jiggled with and actors start going,
• 47:27
  Oh, but I don't think I'd quite say that in that way.
• 47:31
  Oh, right, oh, right, okay, oh, right, well, I'll check, no, no, that'll be fine, that'll be fine.
• 47:35
  And you end up diluting stuff.
• 47:37
  And that's a terrible slippery slope.
• 47:38
  So I think all due respect to Sam and Jesse and all of the writers, that the rule was, yeah, we're seeing what's on the page, unless you have got a major, major issue.
• 47:50
  So that kept the standard up, that kept it high.
• 47:53
  If it ain't on the page, it ain't on the stage, as they say.
• 47:56
  Yes, and I think there's calibres of writers that absolutely 100% deserve that and they are definitely of that calibre.
• 48:03
  I mean, Succession was amazing.
• 48:06
  I don't think Jesse would mind me saying that, because I don't think he would ever say this, that he invited
• 48:14
  a huge amount of people that he'd worked with over the years, you know, Fresh Meat Lot and Peep Show and the various other shows that he'd done, to a special screening of the funeral episode of Succession at the Barbican he put on this night.
• 48:28
  And do you know what he did?
• 48:29
  He did a speech at the start thanking everyone in the room because by working with all the people in the room, he'd written Succession.
• 48:39
  So that's the kind of guy he is.
• 48:41
  He wasn't, oh, and I've done this show, and he didn't.
• 48:44
  He got everyone in that room to say, thank you.
• 48:47
  I've become this level of writer, thanks to working with you all.
• 48:50
  And I remember going, oh my God, that's just like, it's classy.
• 48:54
  And he didn't need to do that.
• 48:55
  And I just thought, what a lovely thing to be a part of to get to see that episode, which is astounding.
• 49:00
  The funeral episode, I think one of the best episodes of TV I've ever seen.
• 49:03
  But that's the kind of dude he is.
• 49:04
  He's a very humble, lovely man.
• 49:07
  Kim was talking about that exact happening as well about the succession party and she said how it just basically became a fresh meat kind of vibe.
• 49:15
  Like there was stealing from the buffet and she was saying how you'd be like elbowing, like oh my god it's Brian Cox.
• 49:21
  We were absolute children at that, we were absolute kids, we were a nightmare, we all got hammered and yeah.
• 49:28
  And we were all staying up in London that night so it just got a bit messy, it was really funny.
• 49:34
  Yeah, we ended up going to some members club until silly o'clock and we all got a table and Sam and I think we must have just been nightmares by the end of it.
• 49:44
  But then that's what happens.
• 49:45
  We just turn into children and we're all, yeah, that was a great night actually.
• 49:49
  It was really fun.
• 49:51
  Oh, idiots.
• 49:52
  I can only imagine the absolute energy of having you guys, the Fresh Meat lot, the Peep Show lot, the Succession lot, Jesse Armstrong, Sam Bain, all together in a room.
• 50:01
  Yeah, well, that's it, isn't it?
• 50:02
  It's these surreal things.
• 50:04
  I mean, of course, you know, from an alleyway in Glasgow going, oh, I've got this great part.
• 50:08
  Howard, you don't actually know how it's going to go.
• 50:11
  You know, you can read a great script, but as I say, there's a lot of component parts.
• 50:16
  You're a small part of it.
• 50:17
  The script works, but will the production work?
• 50:19
  Will it be marketed?
• 50:20
  Will it get an audience?
• 50:20
  Will the audience enjoy it?
• 50:22
  Is there enough in it?
• 50:23
  Blah-de-blah-blah-blah-blah.
• 50:24
  And then fast forward a few years and you're at a succession party and Fresh Meat's been a big hit and then Succession's been this global hit and you're kind of hobnobbing with people at the same time as chucking food at each other.
• 50:35
  How lucky I've been to...
• 50:41
  to be part of shows that you know you get to do these and these are just little silly things a lot of it's hard work and a lot of it's a bit of a rubbish industry because you don't know what you're doing next and but there are certain highlights and yeah kim's right that was a just a surreal funny highlight so there was food being shocked it's been it was just i remember
• 50:58
  Zowie kind of half jokingly saying to Jesse about where's my part in succession, you know, and we were winding Zowie off about that as well.
• 51:09
  Because, you know, it's not really the done thing.
• 51:12
  You know, the guy's written four seasons of a really successful show for you and it's an American set.
• 51:16
  And we were just winding Zowie off about pitching heavies to be in the next succession kind of thing.
• 51:22
  But it was all good natured.
• 51:25
  and where do I mean this is a question I have to ask as a fan but like where do you think Howard and the rest of the cast but where do you think Howard would be now now that it's been I think best part of 10 years since the show ended where do you think Howard is now I think Howard's
• 51:44
  He's just worked his way up the Ordnance Survey and combining his geography skills with some form of AI and tech and he's in quite a steady job and still enjoys Minecraft and
• 52:04
  isn't doesn't want to manage people is a loner but not unhappy I think he's probably got a long-term girlfriend that works in one of the last remaining libraries that's still open something like that I think he's he's I think he'll always be quite content Howard because he doesn't rely on other people too much that's where I see him
• 52:27
  Whereas I think the others are probably either exploded or been through rehab or on their second marriage or third marriage or whatever.
• 52:36
  So I think Howard's steady low key life.
• 52:40
  He's a rock.
• 52:41
  He's a rock.
• 52:42
  I think he is.
• 52:43
  He's back to yeah.
• 52:44
  Geology, not geography, geology.
• 52:46
  God, how could I forget that?
• 52:47
  Geology rocks.
• 52:48
  Yeah, exactly.
• 52:49
  So yeah, I think, I think Howard's a bit of a, he's a happy rock though.
• 52:54
  Not outwardly happy.
• 52:56
  he doesn't do loads of big smiles Howard but inside he's okay well Kim was saying how in lockdown I think uh someone had approached her about oh you know would you ever go back and do a reunion or where would Josie be now with JP and she was joking that like now she could see Josie being kind of like the um is it Carrie to Boris Johnson
• 53:18
  Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 53:19
  And JP would be Prime Minister and she'd be kind of the carry to his Boris.
• 53:23
  Wow.
• 53:25
  That was how she... What an image that is.
• 53:27
  Oh, my goodness.
• 53:28
  Yeah, that's a pitch to give to Sam and Jesse.
• 53:31
  Yeah, is JP...
• 53:33
  Someone tells me that JP just went into Mayfair property.
• 53:37
  But, yeah, no, that would be quite funny.
• 53:40
  I mean, it would be lovely to see where they are.
• 53:42
  I don't think Sam and Jesse would ever go back to it, I don't think.
• 53:46
  But...
• 53:47
  Yeah, it'll be interesting to see, especially where Vod is now.
• 53:49
  I wonder what Vod's journey has been.
• 53:52
  I think maybe she's in a much calmer place now than where she was.
• 53:56
  But yeah, who knows?
• 53:58
  I think the last time we saw her at the end of the show, she was heading off to South...
• 54:00
  There was like a deleted scene, wasn't there, where you all did a Skype call.
• 54:03
  Yes.
• 54:04
  And Oregon and Vod are over in South America.
• 54:07
  But Vod's kind of abandoned Oregon.
• 54:09
  That's right.
• 54:10
  I'd forgotten that.
• 54:11
  Yeah.
• 54:11
  Yeah.
• 54:12
  Maybe she's still out there.
• 54:13
  Maybe she's still out there and got involved in Columbia and goodness knows what.
• 54:16
  So yeah, you just wouldn't know with odd, would you?
• 54:20
  Would you ever go back, do you think?
• 54:21
  If there was rumblings of getting the Fresh Meat, getting back together like the Likely Lads or This Life, do you think you'd ever go back?
• 54:28
  Oh my God, 100%.
• 54:29
  100% I would.
• 54:30
  I mean, some people would say, leave it.
• 54:32
  You know, what works, works.
• 54:33
  Just don't go back.
• 54:36
  But the opportunity to work with those guys again and to do a character that I loved, I think I'd have to, yeah.
• 54:43
  I mean I think if you'd asked me that after series 4 I would have gone not out of any malice towards the show but I would have gone well no we've just done that I think that's done but given time and you know I've gone on and done other shows and stuff that I would happily go back and hang out with those idiots again
• 55:01
  Something that we ask our guests on the pod is what kind of recommendations they would give our viewers and listeners for stuff that maybe they've been watching recently that's really good or maybe an album they've listened to recently that's really good or a book.
• 55:12
  I mean, what have you been, I guess, consuming of late that you would recommend that's been really sort of firing you up and sparking your interest?
• 55:19
  Well, there's a band called Beluga Lagoon, a Scottish band Just look them up, look at all their albums, they are phenomenal And I did an event six months ago at the Hydro in Scotland with Martin Compton, an actor chap And he invited me up to do a little thing on stage with him And I watched Beluga Lagoon live
• 55:43
  And they are just another world.
• 55:44
  They are absolutely amazing, like Scottish.
• 55:47
  It's folky, but it's just beautiful vocals and upbeat and then some harrowing tracks, just like really stunning and they're fantastic lives.
• 55:57
  My top tip would be Beluga Lagoon for music.
• 56:04
  In terms of books, I've been reading quite a lot recently.
• 56:06
  Some hit, some miss.
• 56:09
  And I have to say I loved Flesh.
• 56:13
  The book Flesh It's very harrowing Again I don't know what it is in my psyche That was drawn to the darker stuff But yeah Flesh The book Flesh by David I forgot your second name But it's beautifully written It's a bit like a screenplay actually The way it's written So maybe it taps into my filmic preferences But they would be my top tips And in terms of films Documentary
• 56:41
  Oh, I don't know.
• 56:42
  I don't know.
• 56:43
  I just watch the same films.
• 56:44
  Watch The Holdovers.
• 56:45
  Watch Marvelous if you've not.
• 56:47
  Marvelous is on Amazon or Netflix.
• 56:50
  I can't remember which one it's going on to.
• 56:51
  I think it's on Prime, actually.
• 56:53
  And not because I'm in it.
• 56:55
  I just always say to people to watch it if they want just a bit of an uplifting thing to watch.
• 56:59
  And it's really good for the soul, that film.
• 57:03
  If not, Munich.
• 57:04
  LAUGHTER
• 57:06
  Go back to Munich Yeah go back to Munich Or Rosalie back to Munich Yeah That's a Spielbergian I was impressed that you That's a bit of a Spielbergian deep cut I want to say You know Yeah I don't know I think the acting in it as well Is incredible It's very dark But as I say The futility of revenge Is You know We're not getting away from that In society are we At any level From street crime To Wars And These The idea of male Revenge Is
• 57:35
  is what holds the planet back, isn't it?
• 57:38
  It's not female-led revenge, is it?
• 57:40
  It's male-led egotistical revenge.
• 57:44
  And I think there's something about what that film says about even where we're at today and all the tragedies we keep seeing internationally and locally, and there's a lesson in how do we stop the cycle of revenge.
• 57:59
  I've actually got a slight change of tone, but I've got a funny story about the making of Munich, actually, which I just remembered.
• 58:05
  What brilliant.
• 58:07
  Which I just remembered, which I can share with you now.
• 58:10
  So a couple of years ago, I got to visit the set of Ghostbusters Frozen Empire.
• 58:15
  Oh, cool.
• 58:16
  Which was the most recent one, just for a couple of days.
• 58:19
  And I was chatting to, because I'm a sort of film nut, so I was just chatting to anyone who I could, who wasn't busy that I could talk to, like the crew and...
• 58:28
  and the cast and and i was chatting chatting to um the prop master yeah who's a bit who i can't remember his name which is terrible but he was a lovely guy and he was like one of the go-to prop masters yeah he worked a lot of spielberg and he was the prop master on munich oh my goodness and he told me this story about um how he when they were making munich i think they i don't know where they shot it maybe they shot it in the uk some
• 58:48
  and he was dressing a room, because that's part of, you know, he would do the props, but he would also help dress the rooms and the sets.
• 58:53
  And he was dressing a room that was about to have a bomb go off in it in the course of the plot of the movie.
• 58:59
  So I think he had dressed the room before the bomb got off.
• 59:01
  Then it was like, right, okay, the bomb's gone off, let's redress this set.
• 59:04
  So then he was redressing the set after the bomb got off.
• 59:06
  So he was, like, throwing, like, dust everywhere, fake blood and stuff, like squibs, like, okay, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 59:11
  And he's doing all this.
• 59:12
  And he's, like, covered head to toe in, like, blood and dusts.
• 59:15
  like fake domestic violence by doing this.
• 59:17
  And Spielberg walks onto the set
• 59:20
  to start presumably start the day shooting yeah he comes up and he spots him and he walks right up to the prop master and he sort of stands in front of him looks him up and down and goes are you enjoying your job and that's brilliant the guy's like hell yeah covered in like you know fake blood and dust oh that's lovely that's such a nice image isn't it imagine spielberg as well just coming up to you yeah and you are enjoying your job that's what's even better on top of that isn't it
• 59:47
  oh you see I'd love to have been on that set I mean I'd love to be in it obviously but just to see how they did it oh some of the scenes are so brutal anyway let's not let's not spell that not on the brutality of it yeah brutal film but quite a funny you know like hearted stuff yeah I love it
• 1:00:03
  Yeah.
• 1:00:03
  And what kind of stuff have you got coming up that we can look forward to?
• 1:00:06
  What have you got in the pipeline, projects-wise, that we can...
• 1:00:10
  The thing I'm most proud about that I've done this year, I've got something that comes out that they say I can't even mention, which is beyond me why I can't mention stuff if it's coming out way in the year, but...
• 1:00:21
  Press people get slightly I don't know They just want to control when stuff's announced But the thing I can talk about That is going to be released in a scheme In October Is I've written a play An adaptation of Romeo and Juliet Which is rather than the Montagues and the Capulets It's his left wing and right wing Elements of a small village And about a young guy who
• 1:00:43
  follows in tow along to this anti-immigrant protest outside X-hotel, is what we should be calling them, asylum, where people are seeking asylum in X-hotel.
• 1:00:53
  And the young chap who's on the right wing, isn't really right wing, kind of falls for the asylum seeker character, Jasmine.
• 1:01:03
  And it's a story just about how they build a friendship and how she doesn't trust him.
• 1:01:07
  And the conflict between left-wing views and right-wing views in the local community, which is obviously rife up and down the country.
• 1:01:15
  So that scheme's called Positive Stories for Negative Times.
• 1:01:18
  And basically I commissioned as a writer to do it, but then I give away any kind of production rights So anyone can put it on, school groups can put it on, youth groups can put it on And I'm really proud of it, I think it's the best thing I've ever written to be honest
• 1:01:35
  It's only an hour long and it's aimed at 15 to 20 year olds, I suppose.
• 1:01:41
  And I just want every school to get hold of a copy.
• 1:01:44
  And even if they don't put it on as a production, is hopefully just read it and start a debate about, you know, it's not a didactic finger wagging.
• 1:01:54
  My views are left wing and I've got very strong left wing views, but this is not me screaming from the top of my left wing.
• 1:02:02
  parapet it's it's hopefully a basis of discussion about where we are and and and how both sides of this situation need to try and listen to to each other and stuff like that so that's that starts in october and already i've had hundreds of groups sign up to do it which is amazing i'm going to keep screaming about it because it
• 1:02:23
  I've written it as Scottish slant, but it can be put on anywhere, and part of the rules of the engagement is that groups can alter, not like Sam and Jesse, they can alter the language and make it local and specific to them.
• 1:02:38
  That's part of the thing.
• 1:02:39
  Obviously, I'm a 46-year-old white dude writing it, and if there was changes in vernacular or whatever they wanted to do, they could change it.
• 1:02:49
  So I'm encouraging people to look into it.
• 1:02:51
  That's amazing.
• 1:02:52
  That sounds great.
• 1:02:53
  And is it already, did you say it's already being booked to be put on anywhere in London?
• 1:02:58
  Well, it's basically, the scheme is so that groups without any budget at all can do it.
• 1:03:03
  So there's no theatre signed up to do it at the moment, but it would be open to theatres to do.
• 1:03:09
  But basically I had to write it so that it could be performed in any space, any room.
• 1:03:14
  So there's not big tech requirements for it at all.
• 1:03:17
  So at the moment, it'll be put on by schools and youth groups and stuff like that.
• 1:03:21
  But I've not taken it out to theatres yet, but I'm going to be pushing for that to happen as well.
• 1:03:25
  That's amazing.
• 1:03:26
  Thank you.
• 1:03:26
  That sounds fantastic.
• 1:03:27
  And am I right in thinking that there's maybe some more Gary Tank Commander stuff coming down the pipe as well?
• 1:03:33
  I remember you were on a podcast a little while ago and you said there was some stuff you've been holding back.
• 1:03:38
  Yeah, there's monologues.
• 1:03:39
  I've written monologues.
• 1:03:40
  We just need to film them and I'll put them out because Gary's got a lot of views on, obviously, what's going on in the world at the moment.
• 1:03:46
  There's no plans to develop it into a TV series, but I'm going to stick the monologues out and see just what people think of them.
• 1:03:54
  Because Gary, obviously with the state of the world, Gary's got some pretty strong views on what's going on.
• 1:04:01
  So yes, they are yet to be released, but they're written, the stuff's written to be shot and put out.
• 1:04:07
  That's fantastic, because that's a character that we've touched on a little bit, but it's such a huge cult following, I think, in the UK, particularly in Scotland, of course.
• 1:04:13
  Yeah.
• 1:04:14
  And it's such a great character.
• 1:04:16
  And just the way you were talking there about the bits.
• 1:04:20
  Because he did start, and that was kind of the format he started, I want to say, right?
• 1:04:23
  There's monologues, was kind of put to YouTube, was kind of the initial format.
• 1:04:27
  It was, yeah.
• 1:04:28
  It was quite an interesting process there, because people say, oh, did it come out of stand-up?
• 1:04:31
  It didn't.
• 1:04:32
  It actually came from a short film film.
• 1:04:34
  that me and my mates shot in Enra Festival time 2005 when I was dying on my arse every day.
• 1:04:41
  And then after that, Shane Allen, who was head of Channel 4 Comedy at that point, said, I think you should go and do that character live.
• 1:04:50
  And I said, oh, Shane, if there's one thing I know about that character, it will never work live.
• 1:04:53
  But it did because he didn't care.
• 1:04:56
  And that was something I wasn't used to as a performer.
• 1:04:58
  As a stand-up, I used to go out and be like,
• 1:05:00
  Oh hi how you doing What's your Oh what's your Oh is anyone You know Just like banal And then when you go As a character who Does not care I used to just go on And just stand For ages Just like Total control of a room And it was such An eye opener You know that's an interesting One for acting as well as When I got to do That character Who doesn't care It kind of In your mind Doesn't matter About the gig as much And the gigs would go well Once I'd learned How to write proper stuff For Gary
• 1:05:31
  But that was a really interesting period actually going, oh my God, I'm about to walk out in front of 400 people and just pretend I don't care.
• 1:05:40
  It's quite an interesting thing in your mind.
• 1:05:43
  So, yeah, no, Gary was very, very good to me.
• 1:05:45
  And I think Gary was actually a large part of,
• 1:05:48
  me getting seen for fresh me, I think.
• 1:05:50
  The show had done very well in Scotland and I believe it was David Kerr's wife actually who said to David about the show.
• 1:05:58
  And she said, oh, you should see that guy, see what he would do.
• 1:06:00
  Because obviously Gary's the polar opposite.
• 1:06:03
  So it was lovely.
• 1:06:04
  Yeah, that's why it was so crucial for me.
• 1:06:08
  to go and prove to people that I wasn't the one trick Gary Pony and Howard, you know, really showed to other people what I could do in terms of the other end of the comedy landscape, I suppose.
• 1:06:22
  But, yeah, no, Gary's been very generous to me over the years.
• 1:06:27
  Um...
• 1:06:29
  And I do Panto as Gary, so I'm doing that this year.
• 1:06:33
  I do, yeah.
• 1:06:34
  So Gary and Panto is a riot.
• 1:06:38
  Yeah, I wind up a lot of people and be a bit naughty on stage as Gary because he's just high camp and ridiculous.
• 1:06:45
  Do you find that when you're playing that character on stage or on screen, like your brain, like, because when you're in character, you're in character and you're acting how Gary would.
• 1:06:51
  Do you find your brain, you're going in places that he would go that are kind of spontaneous, like if you're doing Panzer, which is so... Gary, I mean, Gary's terrifying because he's in my head.
• 1:07:02
  So when I switch into that, that is 100%.
• 1:07:06
  You know, if I'm doing a runner's Gary, I've done it as stand-up and I've done improv chat shows with him and all the rest of it, is Greg, now this will sound ridiculous, but this is true,
• 1:07:17
  If it's me in the dressing room before I'm going on, I'm like, oh, do I have to do this again?
• 1:07:24
  And then about 10 minutes, once I get all my stuff on and I'm Gary, I'm like, I can't wait.
• 1:07:27
  This is amazing.
• 1:07:28
  I get to go back out on the stage again.
• 1:07:30
  It is just, it means you can't be in a bad mood.
• 1:07:34
  So when I'm on stage, I'm never going, oh, I don't want to be doing this.
• 1:07:37
  Just because Gary is a child.
• 1:07:39
  He's a, he's an, people have asked me in the past about sexuality.
• 1:07:43
  He's like, to me, Gary is asexual child.
• 1:07:45
  That's what he is.
• 1:07:47
  So with that, the naivety, the innocence, the energy of a child means that that goes into you.
• 1:07:53
  It absolutely does.
• 1:07:55
  Yeah.
• 1:07:55
  It's not healthy, I don't think, but it helps.
• 1:07:58
  It definitely helps.
• 1:07:59
  So you think there is like a sort of split, but there's Greg and then there's Gary.
• 1:08:05
  I think there is.
• 1:08:05
  I think there is a weird, weird split.
• 1:08:07
  And he's tiring.
• 1:08:08
  It is tiring to do him for...
• 1:08:10
  things but then when you're not being yourself it is kind of almost yeah it's always going to be more tiring but yeah there's a definite split but once I'm in that um you know he's banned from the house like my wife's like she's just like don't don't do Gary in the house sometimes occasionally I'll I'll just do something stupid but um yeah it's a different person
• 1:08:31
  A little bit like cheesy, what are we having tonight?
• 1:08:33
  Cheesy pasta.
• 1:08:33
  Cheesy pasta, exactly.
• 1:08:35
  Nope, that's banned.
• 1:08:37
  And then even the kids will say, no, dad, you're not allowed to do that.
• 1:08:40
  Even the kids?
• 1:08:40
  Yeah.
• 1:08:41
  They've been told.
• 1:08:41
  They get a bit freaked out by, yeah, when he pops up.
• 1:08:46
  Oh that's fabulous I mean do they But they've seen They've seen the show Presumably Do you know They haven't seen the sitcom yet But they've seen me do Panto as Gary And they love that Because it's just big silly And you know They all have panto They're only young So But they've not watched The actual Sitcom yet And I'm not mad I don't push my shows On them or anything So I'll let them find that When they Or if they want to
• 1:09:11
  Do you have a favourite memory of Gary Tank Commander, of being Gary, or whether on stage or on screen?
• 1:09:21
  There's a couple of gigs that stand out.
• 1:09:24
  I did the 100 year anniversary of the Queen's Hall in Edinburgh and I headlined that and it was a great act on before me.
• 1:09:32
  And I had a great gig at the end and felt the pressure to be very good.
• 1:09:38
  And on that night, if things came together, I remember that.
• 1:09:41
  And that was a big event, you know, 100 years of the Queen's Hall.
• 1:09:43
  That was really special, actually.
• 1:09:45
  And then the other thing was just arriving on set on the first day of episode one.
• 1:09:50
  And I'd written the sitcom.
• 1:09:52
  and we were we'd made a mini iraq and and there was camera crews and there was sound people it was catering and the producer went you've done this and of course you've not you've done it with help he's like the script editor and a team around you but he said you've done this and i was like oh my god you know that blows your mind nothing prepares you when you turn up and
• 1:10:16
  there's all these people there to make your your thing that's that's mad yeah really mad i can imagine yeah as the kind of as the voice behind that character in that show you know being the writer the performer you know producing it yeah i'd like to see your baby yeah come alive yeah that it is really mad and then of course i did the hydro uh shows live shows and they were in front of 10 000 people a night and and i'll not forget that because i come down on a wire the rest of the boys
• 1:10:44
  managed to get this helicopter constructed and so they they abseil down at speed like soldiers and then i come down in slow mo to take your breath away you know take my breath away as gary with my leg out and i'll see 10 000 people out there you go yeah that's quite mad yeah and now he might be coming back to talk about what what is he talking about with the world today
• 1:11:08
  Oh man, he talks about quite a lot of stuff I won't ruin too much But you could say Gary's Had a bit of promotion A sideways promotion And he's talking about Europe NATO Putin, North Korea Russia Russia
• 1:11:27
  and climate change and I've written some really mad stuff actually I won't I won't ruin too much but it's just all of the current issues that would not be broadcast on tv so hopefully they'll work out
• 1:11:43
  Fabulous.
• 1:11:43
  And with the subtitles, the text popping up on screen.
• 1:11:47
  Yes, my mate's an editor and we've gone through how we're going to do that as well.
• 1:11:50
  So, yeah, there'll be a bit of that.
• 1:11:52
  Because even when you go back and watch that first episode, just little things like thingy, little words just pop up.
• 1:11:57
  The most random little words of what he's saying, like thingy comes up and it's so funny.
• 1:12:00
  Well, do you know, that was not me at all, I have to say.
• 1:12:02
  That was just very clever by the director and the editor.
• 1:12:04
  I think they came up with that.
• 1:12:05
  I stayed out of the edit.
• 1:12:07
  I'd written it and I'd shot it, but I never went into the edit, which is probably not great, but my brain was always so fried by the time we'd...
• 1:12:13
  I'd done the writing for six months, then done it, and then by the edit.
• 1:12:16
  But yeah, that was the editor and the director who came up with that.
• 1:12:19
  But it was a lovely touch.
• 1:12:20
  And I'll steal that back.
• 1:12:22
  Fabulous.
• 1:12:22
  Well, hey, Greg, this has been such a pleasure chatting to you.
• 1:12:25
  Oh, absolute pleasure, mate.
• 1:12:26
  Pleasure.
• 1:12:27
  Thanks for coming on the show and for giving up your time to talk to us.
• 1:12:29
  Not at all.
• 1:12:30
  Thank you, Billy.
• 1:12:30
  Thank you.
• 1:12:31
  And I can't wait to see both the play and hopefully a bit more Gary.
• 1:12:34
  You know, what have you got coming next?
• 1:12:36
  Cheers.
• 1:12:36
  Thank you very much.