Latest / The BlackSheep Podcast: Presented by HM Magazine / Elaine Bradley on the Strange History of Nymb

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Elaine Bradley on the Strange History of Nymb · The BlackSheep Podcast: Presented by HM Magazine

• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Today we have Elaine from NIMH. Super excited to meet
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: you and to chat with you all things NIMH. I
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: will say, I feel like I'm pretty acquainted with the
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Midwest emo scene, which means that I know even most
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: of the obscure bands. For some reason, NIMH was one
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: of those bands that just kind of escaped me. I
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: only recently found out about you all, and then we
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: were able to make this interview happen, and I've been
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: diving into the discography, and I'm like, how have I
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: missed this? This is literally all the things I love
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: about Midwest emo. It's all of those things and more.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: And so I'm very, very excited that I found you all.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: I know, you know, it's been quite some time since
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: you all have even made music, but it's definitely the
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: kind of music where I'm like, this is just right
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: up my alley. So I'm sure you guys get that
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: a lot where it's like, you know, people well past,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: you know, when NIMH was a thing. I'm sure you
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: guys find people that are like now just discovering, you know,
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: not just NIMH, but a lot of bands from that scene.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: So anyway, we'll talk all things NIMH. But before we
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: dive into all of that, how are you doing today?
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: I'm doing okay. I'm doing well. I'm in the middle
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: of some travel. So by way of explanation to all
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: those watching.
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: You're saying that that's not your personal art at your home?
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: This is not my office. No, this is a background
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: picture at the airport. There's more of a picture, but
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: the fact that it's literally just this lady's butt is
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: pretty great.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: You're seated perfectly.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: I'm considering maybe doing something like this in an office
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: at home one day because I like it so much.
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: There you go.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, my grandpa, so I grew up in the Midwest
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: and he was like a farmer. And my grandparents kind
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: of had this like kind of cheeky Midwest.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: No pun intended.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, cheeky. Exactly, cheeky. Well, just wait until I kind
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: of reveal the part of this story.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: So they always had kind of these like cheeky kind
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: of just Midwest farm rule kind of stuff in their house.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: And my grandpa in his bathroom used to have this
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: photo of these like two, they looked like two like toddlers,
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: like three-year-old boys. And there was like, you know, and
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: like one of them's kind of got like his hand
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: around the other. And it's something like there's a caption
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: that says something along the lines of like, so how
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: long you been farming? And and if I remember right,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: like they were just in there only in their overalls,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: like they weren't wearing shirts or something. Like it was
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: just kind of this like cute little like toddler thing.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: But for whatever reason, my grandpa just had that in
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: his bathroom because he was a farmer. But it just
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: reminds me of just like kind of the weird artwork
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: that they would have had in their house.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Sure. Well, great. I'm glad to bring a little slice
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: of home for you or at least grandparents home.
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: There you go. There you go.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Great.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: Well, let's talk all things NIMH.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Maybe even before talking about like the history of NIMH,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: I'd love to hear just like how did you get
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: into music? You know, obviously in NIMH you sing and you've,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: you know, now you play drums. And I would imagine
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: you were just like generally a very musical person growing up.
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: So, yeah. What what inspired you to want to make music?
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Well, I think music inspired me to want to make music.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Just generally, I feel like since I can remember, I've
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: been interested in like the feelings associated. Before I had
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: words to describe to you the feelings associated with music,
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: I was interested in them. So like I remember some
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: of my like pivotal memories that have stuck with me
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: my whole life would be like on the kindergarten bus.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: I remember staring out the window like almost like longingly.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: and singing to myself Chicago's you're the inspiration, you know,
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: that's a, you know, just feeling just literally just feeling like, Oh, right.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: I'm five. You know what I mean? Like what business
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: do I have feeling those complex, but it just felt
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: like music had a way of speaking to my soul
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: and speaking to the part of me that, that lies
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: beneath words, which is most of me, you know, I, I,
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: I have, nym lyrics even that speak to this, but
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: how difficult it is when you don't have words for
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: something to try to give it a shape, to try
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: to give it words. Like words are all we have
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: to give the big things that we experience and feel
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: and think a shape. And like the translation between what's
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: going on in our internal world and what we're able
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: to speak to is it's just, it's messy. I think
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: it accounts for like, most of the problems with humanity
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: is the fact that we are relying on language to
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: communicate with each other when that's such an imperfect and
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: subjective way to communicate. So back to the youngness. So
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: like as a young person, now that I can give
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: that words, I can tell you what music did for me.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: But back then I was just drawn to it, just
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: drawn to music. And I remember the first time I
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: got that full body chills feeling from music was, listening
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: to a tape recorder and I was listening to Led Zeppelin,
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: physical graffiti, cashmere, you know, right. And then it goes
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: into the bridge and the bridge is this like swirling soundscape.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: And I remember for the first time listening to that
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: and then that change in the bridge, just goosebumps, feelings
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: just like washed over me. And that was so noteworthy.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: It stuck with me. And I remember rewinding the tape
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: to try to get that feeling again. And obviously, once
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: you've heard it, you can still get an approximation of
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: that feeling, but it's never quite the same as the first.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: It's kind of like a drug, you know? It's like, oh,
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: I want that rush. And so then you're on the
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: search for it. What music gives me that rush or
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: that feeling? And I would assume that's also why I
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: was drawn to emo. Midwest emo is literally like what
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: I just described. It is a whole genre dedicated... to
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: getting across difficult feelings that most people don't speak to,
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: you know? So like, that's kind of like my background
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: and like my family's typically generally musical, you know, my
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: brother is an excellent singer. He did like high school
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: theater and got the leads and stuff like that. So
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: he's my older brother. So, you know, I kind of
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: looked at him like, wow, like what a talented person,
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: but like within me was, there was always this, this
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: like drive to number one. get in front of people
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: and have them validate my human experience as selfish and
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: petulant and needy as that sounds, that's a driver. And
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: number two, to attempt to sum up the human experience, uh,
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: in a way that other people can go, yeah, you got,
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: I feel like that because as a human, I think
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: I've typically felt very much like an Island. Like, Like,
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: is my internal world the same as other people's internal world?
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: Or is there more to mine? Where are we common?
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Where are we different? Like, it's so hard to get
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: out of your own head as a human being. And
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: to even compare, because we're working with words, to compare
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: the experience. So, yeah, I think those two things, like
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: a petulant selfishness and a desire to connect, kind of
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: drove me to musical performance slash writing music and lyrically even.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Like the ability to say what's going on. That's not
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: even known to me. Lyrics, using lyrics is like my
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: own prophecies. Like, hey, this is what you're feeling. That's
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: why you use these words. That's why this has been
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: so fun. The whole resurgence of NIMH. I get to
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: revisit what I wrote when I was 18, 19, 20, 21, 22.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: You know, and look at those years and be like, oh,
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: I now have the words to describe what those lyrics meant.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: And I get to do it. And it's really fun. Right.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: God, there's so many things that I could go off
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: of here. First off, I appreciate sort of the philosophical
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: way that you think about this.
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: I'm a stoic. Yeah, yeah. I can definitely tell that.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: It reminds me a lot of music just being like
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: a universal language, like truly, like every single culture throughout
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: human history has always made music. In fact, there's probably
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: plenty of evidence and maybe, you know, I'm sure like
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: archaeologists or or anthropologists could probably correct me on this,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: but if I could be right in thinking that music
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: might have predated even human language. So even before we
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: started forming words, we were already starting to make music.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: And so music truly is this like universal language. And
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: there's a reason why it connects to any part of
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: the human experience, whether it's joy, sadness, whatever it might be,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: like it connects to any part of our human experience
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: because it might be one of the most deeply human
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: things that we do is make music.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: 100%. I could not agree with you more. Supremely vital
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: to our ability to process humanity. Yeah.
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: Which is why music is just so.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you probably have your own thoughts on AI
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: music and all of that, but there's something to be
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: said about if we don't continue to invest into good music,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: it actually is going to be like.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Really destructive to us as a human species because I
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: really do think a part of the reason why human
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: species has continued you know in its lineage the way
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: it has like why we've been able to flourish in
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: the way we have is in part because of our
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: artistic expression there's very few other creatures if really any
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: that can express itself artistically and so it's a deeply
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: human thing and why it's so important for us to
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: continue to create art and obviously especially music.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, dude, let me. just like say amen and just
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: dig in with my own words as well, because you're
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: tapping into something that I think is a truth. Like
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: there aren't very many. Capital T truths. There are so
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: many subjective truths, like my truth, my reality, right? Like
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: what I perceive, my experience. That's all like truthful to me.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: But you can have a totally different experience within your
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: own self about the same damn situation. You and I
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: experiencing something together will have completely different things to say
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: about it. Like if you and I are interpreting somebody
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: else's emotions even, I would read it one way based
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: on my internal world. you would read it another way.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: So like, I feel like the things conveyed through music
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: are like simultaneously capital T truth and small T subjective truth.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: Like the same song can, can give a feeling like in,
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: in a more accurate way than language ever could. But
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: then the, the little T truth is like you and
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: I then receiving that song and communing with it and
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: in whatever way like serves us personally. And we could
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: talk about that and it might be totally different. And
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: I think if I could sum it up, like the
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: importance of music to humans, cause that's what we're talking about,
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: just large scale, I think, and even the arts, like
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: I like that you said the arts because music is,
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: is a subsection of a larger arts, right? There's visual
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: arts and there's auditory arts. I mean, poetry is an art. It's,
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: all these expressions. And I feel like what art is,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: if I could just be really, and maybe even glib
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: about it, if it's just art is the way that
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: we express our internal experience externally. And that's what people
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: vibe with. They're like, oh, it's like this window into like, yeah,
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: there's something more than just our day-to-day grind or what
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: we're doing or how we're even speaking to each other.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: There's this soul of a human and art's, speak to
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: it so music is an art I think all arts
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: are literally like the way that we humans can cope
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: with our existence and stay sane you know like at
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: least that's my experience with the arts is that.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah I can't imagine uh with you know the state
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: of the world the way it is with all the
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: different things that are going on like I can't imagine
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: not being able to just sort of like immerse myself
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: in the art to sort of feel like, all right,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: I've got like, there's hope still. And I would imagine
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: like that's probably a big reason why many of us
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: are drawn to, you know, even something like Midwest Emo,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: like all of us have gone through breakups and we
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: know what that's like. And I would imagine for many
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: of us, Maybe it's even the reason why a lot
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: of Midwest emo bands even start. But a lot of
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: us start listening to a lot of that music because
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: we're going through something as universal.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: As a breakup.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: And maybe the only way that we're able to feel
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: sane or hopeful out of that or to even just
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: feel the things that we need to feel when it
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: comes to trauma or grief is to like it. There's
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: something about that kind of music that allows us to
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: like tap into that.
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: And gives us that space.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: And so there's something really beautiful about even something like
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: specifically Midwest Emo, because I think, yeah, when it comes
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: to Midwest Emo, not to say that it's only just
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: like breakup songs or whatever, but that is like a
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: part of just like the general vibe of the scene
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: is like some sort of heartbreak or heartache about what's.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: Happening in one's life. That's just a huge part of
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: that scene. Yeah, along those lines, how did Nibs start?
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: I'm just like so curious about the formation, the origin
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: of a very important band.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so interestingly, freshman year of high school.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: Wow, early on.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, so early. So, you know, I moved from southern
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Indiana to the suburbs of Chicago. So southern Indiana suburbs
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: of Louisville, basically, to the suburbs of Chicago because my
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: dad changed jobs. before my freshman year. So I started
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: high school at Crystal Lake Central, didn't know anybody. I
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: played the drums in band, by the way. I don't
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: know why. I think drumming for me was more of a,
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: just like a fun expression, like rhythm just kind of
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: spoke to me. But I never thought in my brain, like, oh,
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: I'm going to be the drummer of a band. Like
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: I kind of just did it for fun, which is
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: interesting because that almost even feels like a prophecy. Like,
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: like one of those, have you ever seen Donnie Darko? Yes. Yeah. Okay.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: For those of you who haven't seen Donnie Darko, it's
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: not necessarily important that you haven't seen it, but to
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: describe what I'm going to be describing, there's a part
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: in Donnie Darko where there's this like liquidy thing that
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: comes out of his chest and he, he has to
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: follow it and it kind of leads him to his
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: fate in a way, you know? And I think of
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: it often as I'm, now in my 40s and reflecting
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: back and going, like, it's almost like I can, the
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: things that made no sense to me then, but have
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: led to different things in my life now, I kind
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: of see it like that liquidy thing drawing me to
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: my fate. So playing drums is one of those things.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: As a child, I never really thought about it. It
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: just felt like a predestiny almost, you know? So there
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: I am. I've taken band class in junior high, you know,
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: so I'm starting high school. I'm like, all right, I'll
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: sign up for band. I don't take it seriously. It's
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: really not my thing. Like I'm not, I never consider
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: myself a drummer, you know? So I'm in band class
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: and I'm in the drum section with me is this guy,
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Jamie Zoller. And he is only in band playing the
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: drum because the school has, he's also moved from a
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: different area. He's moved from Virginia and it's like the
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: suburbs of DC, Virginia. So he's there new. He's a sophomore.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: I'm a freshman. We're in this band class together. He's
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: in the drum section because he plays violin and there
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: is no orchestra and he's thrown by it. So he's like,
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: I guess I'll take band and just play the percussion section. Like,
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: I don't know what made it. Maybe that was this
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: for him too. But so there we are together and
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: we start talking about music we like and we hit
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: it off and he becomes one of my best friends
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: and we crack this idea. Like we've got to make
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: a band. Like this is too good. He plays the guitar.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, well, I sing. I'm a lyricist. That's
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: who I am. I'm a front woman, you know? And
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: he's like, great. So we find a friend of ours
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: that plays guitar and another friend that plays bass. And
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: there is no one that we want to play drums
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: that plays drums. So we're like, oh, no. And I'm like,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: all right, listen. I have a drum set because I
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: do play the drums. So I will play the drums
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: until we can find a drummer. But please, let's find
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: a drummer. So that's how NIMS starts. Freshman year of
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: high school for me. And just like, let's do it.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: And so we practice and we have our first show
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: in the spring. And, you know, it's just like, we're
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: just doing it. We all are like, yeah, let's rehearse.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: We rehearse all summer, whatever. You know, we do our,
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: my sophomore year, same thing. I'm still on the drums.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: And then my junior year, we find this guy, Ben Kane,
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: who goes to a different high school in Lake Zurich, Illinois.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: And he's like, I play drums. I have this other band,
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: but I like your band. I want to play in
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: your band. And we're like, great. So we try him out,
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: and I just go up to the vocals myself. And
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: it's really cool. He's a great drummer. I'm like, oh,
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: so much better than me. Please come in here. That's
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: what it means to drum. That makes more sense. I
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: feel like I learned a lot about drumming. I always
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: credit Ben for the experience fact that I am now
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: a professional drummer because I learned so much by just
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: being in a band with him, just osmosis, just understanding, oh,
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: that's what he did. Oh, I like that. What was that?
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: I'd ask him things, air drumming. I'd be like, tell me,
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: tell me in this song, what's going on? And he
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: would explain it like, oh, you know, so like what
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: a resource anyway. So he joins the band and then
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: our other guitarist, his name was Adam. He breaks his
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: collarbone in a mountain biking accident. And we kind of
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: were like, already a little dissatisfied with him because he
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: had gotten a wah pedal and started listening to a
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: lot of the grateful dead. And we were like, we
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: were listening to a, like Jamie and I were listening
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: to a lot of sunny day real estate and, uh,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: you know, mineral and whatever. And like, I grew up
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: on like Depeche mode and Led Zeppelin and those are
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: my like formative influences. And so that just was like
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: kind of in a direction that neither of us were
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: like jazzed about, you know? So he used it as
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: an opportunity to pivot. I took over on guitar and we,
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: you know, lovingly and with great sadness dismissed him. And
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: we remained friends, by the way. I just met his
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: daughter at a Neon Trees show for the first time,
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: which is so fun. Anyway, so like we stayed friends.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: It's all good. He's great. I'm great. We're great. But
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: that's how I moved to guitar. And so that's where
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: I stayed. I stayed playing the guitar and singing from
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: my junior year all the way until we broke up.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: in 2001. And yeah, so that's, that's kind of the inception.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: And that's, that's, I thought I'd be on guitar and
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: singing in my career forever, but here, look at me now. Yeah.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: And backup singer, two things I never wanted to be right.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Drummer and background vocals. Great. But I love it. Yep.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: What, um, yeah, you mentioned like bands like Sunday day
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: real estate mineral as you know, a couple of these
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: types of bands that really influence that sound for you all.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: What's interesting, and we can dive more into this later on,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: but I would imagine the fact that you guys were
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: in the Chicago area at that time, knowing that a
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: lot of those bands were popping up out of Chicago,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: you know, Cap'n Jazz, obviously eventually American Football, sort of
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: the Chicago area. And generally just a lot of emo
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: bands coming out of that scene. Like I think if
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: I remember right, Plain White Tease might be from the
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Chicago area.
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that seems right.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Or at least some of their guys are. Obviously even
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: like early Foul Out Boy, very Chicago. And obviously not
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: all of them ended up being sort of Midwest emo.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: But the emo scene that was coming out of Chicago
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: at the time was just really incredible. Yeah, I'm just curious,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: like what was it like to be in that, you know,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: because I would imagine you all were like still high
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: schoolers at that time. What was it like to be
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: a high schooler where all of this amazing music that
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: you are a part of that scene too?
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: Like what was, what was that like at that time?
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: I would imagine there must've been something really exciting where
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: you all sort of feel like we've got something going
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: on here. Like there's something really exciting that's happening. I
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: would imagine that that must've been maybe the experience, but
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: maybe I'm projecting.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I think that's the experience. Absolutely. In hindsight,
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: I think when it's going on, there is like an
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: unspoken sense of something happening. you know, but like for us,
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: our experience, like when, when we were in high school,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: we were the ones, we were the kids going to shows.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: So we'd go from our suburban town down to Chicago
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: to the fireside bowl and watch other bands that were
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: like kind of ahead of us, you know? So we,
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: while we were cutting our teeth in the suburbs, cause
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: there was just, you know, there was a whole suburban
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: scene as well. Like even our town, Crystal Lake had
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: venues that, you know, bands were popping up and playing at.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: There was the, like a rotary center that we would,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: rent out to do put on shows and like we
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: do backyard shows and garage shows and basement shows like
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: there was just this bustling like it was you know
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: it was like cutting edge and cool and it was
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: ours you know very like this is our scene and
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: that's kind of the scene we were in and then
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: traveling to chicago daydream about how how how do we
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: break in there you know what i mean like how
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: do we get to play with those bands and so
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: like sometimes bands would come and play in the suburban
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: scene and like, you'd get a chance to open for
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: them to play with them or whatever, you know? So
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: it was kind of like, there were almost two distinct
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: different scenes at the time. And then when we, once
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: we graduated high school, it was like, well, there we
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: go there. So we all moved down to the city
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: together into a house. We practiced in our basement, like
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: got shows. Like once you get your first, it's, it's
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: getting your first, getting your first fireside show is like,
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: it feels almost like pulling teeth. We're like, how do
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: we prove that we're worthy of the shot so that
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: you might hear us and maybe agree that we're worthy
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: of more shows? And so once we got in with
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Brian Peterson, who did all the booking for Fireside, that's
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: kind of like once you get in, if you can
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: then prove that you deserve it, then you get more shows.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: And he was, to his credit, he was very good
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: at booking shows complimentary band shows or like cool band shows.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: Like it wouldn't even all be the same thing. It'd
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: be bands that like, almost like he knew fans of
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: this band will probably like this one. It was almost
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: like he was single-handedly propping up the scene in a
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: way by intelligently booking shows. You know what I mean?
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Cause without that element, you don't get in front of
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: new people. You know, you don't have that synergy around like,
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: and then that we, we, we met bands through fires
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: and then we play with them elsewhere or like, you know,
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: so it was like very much of a, a scene.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: And then once you got a show at fireside, you
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: could say, yeah, we've played fireside. And then maybe you'd
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: get a show at empty bottle, or maybe you'd get
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: a show at lounge X, which is now deceased. It
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: was deceased back then. Uh, but we got to play
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: there before we, before it died or like, you know,
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: then like maybe you want to play at Shuba's or, or,
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: and then maybe you can get a show at Metro,
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: which is like, you know, the, the bigger club and, and,
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: And we did that. We did that scene of, like,
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: graduate to this, try that, try to get in with this.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: And to their credit, the club owners also kind of
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: had a synergy because, you know, I think it was
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: Joe Shanahan was the guy at Metro booking stuff. And
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: he would talk to Brian Peterson maybe. Or, like, it
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: just felt like there was stuff going on behind the
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: scenes where they would share with each other. Like, yeah, no,
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: this band's legit. Like, you should give them a chance
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: or whatever. Right. That's kind of how it felt at
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: the time. And looking back, it is really cool to
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: see just how influential like kids would show up to
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: shows at Fireside not knowing who was going to play.
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: Right. That was like that.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there was something about that time frame. You know,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: I would imagine majority of 90s, but like especially late 90s.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: You just like, especially if you were like a suburb kid,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: you just go into the city and you just go
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: to a show without knowing who's playing because that's just
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: the hangout spot. Like that was, you know, there's the
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: mall culture back then. And like, that's just the hangout spot.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: Like it was this sort of third space that kids
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: would just go to, to hang out. And it, and
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: maybe to some degree that exists in some ways now,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: but like, man, there was such a distinct culture about
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: that back in the day. And, and a huge reason
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: why so many bands were starting at that time. Absolutely.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. And I do want to shout out a band
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: that was super influential to us in the Chicago scene
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: that we like kind of aspired to. And we eventually
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: played with them and became friends with them or whatever.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: But like when we were in high school and didn't
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: yet know them, they were called Sidekick Kato. Now, I
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: don't know if you've heard of Sidekick Kato, but anyone
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: who was in that scene at the time going to
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: those shows, anyone like. who was aware and around, I
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: think would know them and understand the gravity of what
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: they were and how influential they were to all of us.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: I know Tim, he sings for Rise Against now. Back
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: in the day, he was in a band called Baxter
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: during when I was in NIMH. And all of us
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: at that age, because Tim's my age, all of us
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: at that age who were high school kids going to
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: city shows new Psychic Kato and were like Psychic Kato
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: you know like so I highly recommend you go back
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: I'm waiting for.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: Them the way you talk about this is like the
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: way like Southern Cal people around that time would talk
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: about like Operation Ivy 100% it's just like Operation Ivy
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: was the band that like everybody started a band because
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: of them and it sounds like Psychic Kato was like
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: that for Chicago.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah cause Psychic Kato was some sweet spot between hardcore
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: screamo and Midwest emo. It was some sweet spot of beautiful, melodic, heart-wrenching, angry, gentle.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: It was very soft, loud, soft, loud. And that is
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: what I fell in love with and wanted to express
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: with NIMH, is just the range of human emotions. It
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: can't always just be one thing. I struggle with true
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: punk because it feels very all one thing. You know
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: what I mean? It feels very like... And I'm like, okay, well,
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: where's the range of emotion? It never spoke to me
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: because there wasn't... And punk bands that do speak to
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: me have the range of emotion. They're a little more... Like,
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: I actually really like Rise Against because it is more
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: of the range. It's a little more pop. It's a
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: little more, like, halftime feelings and then really fast and cool,
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: you know? So, like, for me, it was... the wider
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: the range of expression, the more I was in. I
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: was like, show me all of it. Show me all.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: I don't want one thing. And so I think that
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: if I had to sum up Midwest emo in its
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: truest form, it's kind of that. No band was just soft.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: No band was just loud. No band was just screamo.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: No band was just punk. It was just, All of it.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: You had punk moments. You had angry moments. You had
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: vulnerable moments. It was the human experience expressed in song.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: One of the things I love about emo and number
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: of months ago, sometime this year, we did this kind
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: of fun episode where we drafted our favorite emo bands,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: you know, sort of like a fantasy draft or whatever.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: And so we kind of, you know, we're, you know,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: being reminiscent around emo moments. And one of the things
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: that we had talked about, and I think we've even
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: structured our draft in this way, is emo is one
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: of the few genres or maybe scenes of music, however
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: you would want to describe it, where a variety of
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: sort of subgenres can exist, where it is a vast range,
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: like as you were talking about. Like you can literally
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: describe a band like Under Oath.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you ever listened to Under Oath.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. You can describe a band like Under Oath as emo.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: And in the same breath, you can say Dashboard Confessionals Emo.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: And these are two bands that sound, if you actually
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: just listen to them side by side, they sound entirely different.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: But they're still under the same scene or genre of music.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: And so there's just very few scenes of music that
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: really can have that kind of range, or very few
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: scenes of music that have that kind of range of
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: sound within its scene. It's pretty incredible. And so I
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: think you're definitely speaking to that.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah, I think emo is like one of the
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: few genres slash titles that sums up a feeling, for
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: lack of a better word, versus like an actual genre.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? It's like it's only emo
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: if you're forced to feel something. We're not saying what.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: You just are forced to feel something, you know? Whereas
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: like punk, you could feel something. You also couldn't, it's
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: just going to have more of a formula. You're going
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: to be able to pick out like, well, that's punk.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: Emo is like, did you feel something? Well, then it's emo.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: For sure.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about kind of, so you're talking about
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: like the early high school days starting out. uh, eventually
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: you guys record, was it two albums, uh, like two
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: albums that you guys end up recording and then, and
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: then it just kind of ends really quickly. So I
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: just love to hear kind of those, that sort of
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: time period of, of recording. I would imagine you guys
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: are playing a lot of shows and then it ends
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: in 2001.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: Sure. Okay. So to be completely exhaustive in the history,
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: we had two tapes in high school. Okay. We put
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: out tapes the first one was called non-conforming together which
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: i think is the most clever name you know it's
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: almost sad we wasted it on the tape um so.
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: That would be like a great like band name even to.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Be honest a hundred percent yeah non-conforming together and then
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: we and then we kind of like developed our sound
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: and and matured a little because that was like we
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: were 14 15 when we put that out and then
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: we put out our second tape which was called one
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: step darker because it was like a little more developed,
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: a little more existentially uncomfortable, a little more like emo,
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: for lack of a better word. It trended a little
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: more emo, right? And then during high school still, we
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: kind of demoed a bunch. Some of those are unearthed
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: in the discography that's coming out. Like there are three
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: songs that are coming out on this like complete discography
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: that never saw the light of day ever for anyone
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: other than ourselves. Like they were literally only ever for us.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: So those are coming out. Those were recorded when I
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: was still in high school, the first three songs on
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: the full discog. So that's interesting and also somewhat embarrassing,
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: but also like informative. That's what we sounded like leading
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: up to the other stuff, you know? And so then, yeah,
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: once I graduated high school, we kind of took it
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: more seriously. And that year after we graduated, after I
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: graduated high school, we record November and that's the first
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: CD that we put out. And, you know, we, by
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: the end of, we did two sessions for November. The
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: first two songs are past, present, what should have been
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: and for the misses. And they had a bassist named
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: Ryan Klopfenstein who kind of stepped in to help us
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: out while we were between bassists. And then the second
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: two are Corey Verblund, who was for all intents and purposes,
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: like the main bassist of NIMH. And that's kind of
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: where we really developed that CD is where we really
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: developed what would be NIMH's sound. And like, of course, like,
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: I like to get a little self-important and like congratulatory
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: and say like, I don't think we ever landed on
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: a sound. I think we were constantly developing and I
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: don't think the goal was to have a sound. I
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: think the goal was to express whatever it was we
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: were wanting to express. And that made our songs be
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: able to be varied within themselves as well. Like I
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: think you can tell that they're all NIMH in certain ways,
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: but if you listen to typical love song, which appeared
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: on that album, it's a pop ditty, you know what
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: I mean? And it's a tongue in cheek pop ditty
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: where I'm making fun of pop ditties, but musically it's
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: a pop ditty, you know what I mean? And then
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: on the same album, you have this like existential emotional
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: crisis and feedback and like heavy guitars. And then, you know,
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: it's like, we didn't care. We didn't care if you
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: were going to be able to recognize us from one
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: song or another song. We just wanted to be authentic
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: and true to the whole range of what we both
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: were influenced by and wanted to express and So that
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: CD was kind of, it was a really good sample
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: of that because all four of those songs are so
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: different and yet succinct and complimentary. And then we recorded
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: the glass eye EP, which is a three song EP,
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: which I think was even a more tight developed version
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: of us, but buried within itself. And then we recorded
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: our first, full-length album called So This Is How It Is.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: And meanwhile, by the way, we're touring as much as possible,
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: as many cities as we can get to, as many
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: places that want to have us, as many local shows
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: as we're allowed to play. Like, we don't say no.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? We say yes. We want it.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: And yeah, so we released So This Is How It Is.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: And during the time of that release, we switched from
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: Corey on bass to Nathan Snydacker on bass. Cause Corey
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: was kind of like, I'm doing school. I'm not necessarily
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: willing to sacrifice as much as you guys are. I'm
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: going to be honest about it. Like, so it was
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: a very amicable switch, but sad in, in a way
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: I really liked playing with Corey and Corey has since
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: passed away. I think he passed away when he was 40,
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: I think a heart attack. So that's, that's also sad
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: to grapple with is like, ah, you know, he was
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: such a formative part of our sound and songwriting and
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: things like that. It's sad that he's not around anymore.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: But he transitioned Nathan in and was really cool about it.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: Like taught Nathan how to play things, like spent time
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: with him. Like, so it was a very amicable switch.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: And then in that time, you know, we start writing
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: with Nathan and we also then decide to break up.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: Things kind of, they get to a point where it
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: feels like, what are we doing? You know, what you
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: described at the beginning is kind of how we felt.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: It was like, what? what do we need to do
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: to get the attention we feel like we deserve? Because
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: those who know us, know us and usually love us.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: It's like, how do we get the broader masses to
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: have heard of us? You know what I mean? And
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: we've been trying to get in front of people for years.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: It's been, you know, just almost torturous to just like
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: get in front of as many people as possible. And
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: it starts to feel like, I mean, you'll see it on.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: So this is how it is. One of the bonus
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: tracks actually called. So this is how it is that
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: we didn't release on the original album, but where we
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: got the title, it's kind of my venting about like,
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: you have to have been in a band that was
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: somehow famous before or like noteworthy before to like get
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: meaningful shows now for your new band. It just felt
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: like there was some formula that we just were right
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: on the outside of, you know, like, we were like
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: on the outside of the glass of the nice restaurant,
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: like going, can we have your scraps? Like, I don't
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: know how to describe it better than that, but it
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: just felt like, what do we need to do to
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: really break through? It's like we have our rabid fans
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: who love us and will fill a fireside. How do
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: we break out beyond that? I think we kind of
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: got stuck in that, like, ugh. And then I think
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: for lack of better coping skills, we kind of turned into,
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: on ourselves we kind of like looked in and we're
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: like we're obviously the problem you know like it must
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: be us we must not be doing the right things
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: or like maybe we're going about it wrong and I
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: think we just folded in ourselves you know I think
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: we just started going well this isn't working you know
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: I why I don't know and I think there were
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: a lot of other dynamics to it as well but
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: we started having the conversation. Should we even, should we
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: even put forth this much money in this much effort?
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: Cause like when you're a band that size, you're forking
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: over money to hope to make it back. You know,
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: like you're, you're not getting paid. There's no guarantees. You
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: know what I mean? So it's just, it's hard. It's
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: hard on a human psyche. It's hard on a group.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: It's hard.
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: It's just hard on your bank account.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: A hundred percent. And, and I think it got to
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: the point where we started analyzing the, Should we? Is
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: it worth this? You know, and there were a lot
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: of mixed feelings about whether we should or shouldn't break
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: up or what the point was. Anyway, we decided to
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: break up and we decided to do it in a
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: way that honored us rather than in a way that
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: like middle fingered us. So we were like, listen, fine,
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: we'll break up. We're going to record this last album.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: These songs are too good to leave in the coffer.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: You know, we're going to have a last show, damn it.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: We're going to sell this album at the last show only.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: We're going to have last show t-shirts. We're going to
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: go out with honor of what it was because it's
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: been incredibly important to us. And we're not breaking up
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: because we think we weren't worth it. We're breaking up
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: because I don't know that we can do it anymore.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: And so we did that. We went out on, I think,
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: not necessarily a high note, but on a palatable note. Right.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: You know, one that we could go, at least we
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: honored what we wrote.
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: And it was on your own terms.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: We didn't throw it away. Exactly. Exactly. And the last
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: show was, you know, cathartic and crushing and like so depressing,
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: but like so great, you know? So that's kind of
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: what we did. That was our journey through the band.
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: Well, here we are 25 years later.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: And obviously a lot of this stuff is getting re-released
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: because of, you know, because it's been a quarter of
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: a century since, And yeah, there's something really cool where,
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: you know, it probably felt at that time that, you know,
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: things sort of fizzled out and for a.
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: Variety of reasons.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: And what's cool is I think a number of people
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: have over these last 25 years have since discovered you
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: like me being one of them and and have realized like, oh, wow,
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: this is like really incredible. And then you start putting
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: you guys like historically with where you all were at.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: with the music scene that you were in and it's like, oh,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: I can see how you all were like influencing a
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: lot of, a lot of other bands. at that time
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: and it's very to me it's like a very similar
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: story to uh american football maybe not to the degree
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: that american football is you know had with their resurgence
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: but You know, American football.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: Maybe it will be.
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: And maybe it could be. I hope so. Like, fingers crossed.
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: I would love that. I would love that.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: But what's cool about, you know, American football story is,
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: you know, you know, with their album coming out in
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: 98 and then they just sort of folded the same way,
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: sort of fizzled out. And then just slowly over time,
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: that album became more and more popular, became more and
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: more influential. And I think we're really starting to see
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: that with them a little bit. And yeah, I'm curious,
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: like what your thoughts are. Like, are you noticing that?
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: as somebody who was in the band? Because I would
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: imagine that, again, like when you guys left, you couldn't
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: have imagined that anybody 25 years later would be listening
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: to your music. But now it seems like there might
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: be more people listening to the music now than they
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: maybe had been back in 2001.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: Totally. Well, first of all, delusionally and also egotistically, I
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: could have imagined. But I just didn't think it would
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: be real, you know? But yeah, I think here's where
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: I'd like to give my shout out to... younger generation
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: of people who I think are growing up in a
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: less connected, it's like a more connected society in cyber
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: ways and a less connected society in real ways. And
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: I think this renewed interest in Midwest emo is not
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: being powered by people who would have come to our
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: shows before. It's being appreciated and applauded and like, we
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: all are going along with it, the people who were
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: there back then, but it's being fueled by people who
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: maybe weren't even born or were barely three when we
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: broke up. And I just have to say thank you.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: Thank you to a generation of people who are looking
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: for something that makes them feel, something that connects them
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: in a real anti-establishment, anti-AI, anti-polished way. I think It
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: is this generation's reaction to the hyper-stylized, uber-pop, very perfected
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: way that the arts have been trending. And my current
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: band included, Neon Trees. I mean, at its core, we're
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: a rock band. Come see us live and we rock,
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: you know? But our albums are very polished. They are.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: We have used autotune and we sound great live. We
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: can sing that well, but... we adjust the timing and
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: for all intents and purposes, Midwest emo, especially stuff recorded
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: back then. Yeah. Didn't use a bit of that.
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: You can tell deliberately, deliberately unpolished.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: And not, and not even deliberately we're human. And therefore
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: we recorded human records. We tried our best to be
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: impeccable and it wasn't perfect. You know what I mean?
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: And in some ways I die at that. In some
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: ways I listen to them and I go, Oh no.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Like if I had auto-tune,
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: I would have fixed that little note, you know? And
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: I think what this generation is saying is so glad
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: you didn't. Thank you. Thank you for putting out human
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: stuff so that we can latch onto it and emulate it.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: Cause there are so many bands now of kids who
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: are 18 to 25 trying to do Midwest emo because
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: it's what feels true and human and real to them.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: And I just could not be more pleased and flattered
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: to be unearthed and considered an influence, let alone be
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: invited back into the space. Like, Hey, are you guys
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: going to tour? Well, I should, I sure as hell
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: hope so. I manifest that we will like we're looking
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: at next June, you know, everybody manifest with us because
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: how amazing. Thank you. Like, so all of my credit
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: and my gratitude goes to a generation of people who
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: that wouldn't have even been able to go to our
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: shows back then.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: I literally was just at American Football with their new
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: album last month. And I mean, it really truly was
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: like a divided crowd of like a bunch of people
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: in their 40s and then a bunch of people like
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: look college age or younger. Like it's crazy how like
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: it really is like people who have literally, they were
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: listening to American Football back in 1998. And then a
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: bunch of a whole new generation that wasn't even alive
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: when that album came out. And again, I would imagine
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: you all are experiencing that with NIMH.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: 100%. It's amazing. I think the amount of people commenting
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: and engaging and encouraging and waiting on releases and things
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: like that are people who weren't around or were not
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: cognizant at the time that we were around. So to
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: engage with them, I could not be more grateful. I
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: could not be more grateful for any interest or engagement.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: I could not be more grateful to the people who
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: are like digging into the lyrics that I wrote 25
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: years ago and going, oh my gosh, those speak to
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: me because it's the human experience. Of course they speak
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: to you. Thank you so much. I don't care how
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: much time it took. You know what I mean? I
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: don't care that back then I feel like maybe nobody
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: was really diving into the lyrics. Like I used to
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: really feel like, man, if people listen to these lyrics,
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: I think a lot more people would check in on
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: me and see if I was okay because I'm not okay,
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: you know? But I think we were all going through it.
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? So here I am emerged
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: on the other side of that age bracket and still
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: full of existential questions, just with a little more softness
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: and wisdom and to engage with people who are currently
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: in the space I was when I wrote those lyrics
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: is so meaningful. And what I'm hoping is that I
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: can bring that softness and wisdom to their current existential
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: crisis and describe it in a way that softens their
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: experience even just a little, or at least softens their
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: judgment about themselves through the experience a little. You know,
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: that's my greatest desire is to just be a good
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: thing to people in their hardest moments.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: I think one of the things that's really cool with
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: Midwest Emo kind of gaining this resurgence is You know,
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: there are a lot of like even new Midwest emo
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: bands that are coming out. And, you know, many of
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: them were influenced by, I would imagine a lot of
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: the bands that you were influenced by, you know, bands
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: like Mineral, Braid, American Football, you name it. And what's
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: cool is with the resurgence of those older bands, there's
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: newer bands that are coming up that are great. But
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: there's this thing where it's like, whether it's a newer
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: band or an older band, because there's resurgence, it's like
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: one of those things where like a rising tide raises
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: all boats. And it seems like, it seems like one
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: of those things where like Nim is, is, is rising
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: with that tide as one of those boats, you know,
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: might not be like as big of a boat again,
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: as like American football, you know, fingers crossed someday.
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: But like, yeah, yes, exactly.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: But it is really cool that again, like, you know,
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: 25 years ago, I can't imagine that you would be
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: thinking that like, oh, there's more people listening to us now,
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: 25 years later, but there is just something to be
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: said about, yeah. With the resurgence of this genre. It
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: seems to raise all boats, including some of the maybe
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: lesser known but very still influential bands like NIMD.
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. Like I said, couldn't be more grateful. Could not
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: be more grateful. And, you know, like, as much as
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: I want to manifest it being bigger and bigger and
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: bigger until it's the only thing I do, like... I'll
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: take whatever it is and whatever is wanted or needed
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: or requested. And I'll just be grateful for that. You
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: know what I mean? I just, there is like literally
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: no hubris. I feel about it. It's pure gratitude and
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: enjoyment because it does feel like an undeserved thing I'm getting.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? It feels like a gift
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: that I'm getting that anyone cares. And so like, I'll
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: take it. I'll take it on whatever level and I'll
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: like push for more, but not with the petulance I
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: was pushing for it when I was 20. You know
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: what I mean?
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: Totally. Totally. That's my, that's my headspace about it now. Yeah.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: I definitely want to dive in a little bit about
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: just kind of where you all are at with the
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: band now, but I do have kind of one more
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: legacy question I'm curious about. And that is, you know,
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: if you go to any of these Midwest emo shows, uh,
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: you know, especially, uh, bands, you know, back in the
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: nineties doing it, it almost were all men. And I'm
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: just curious, like for you as like a woman making
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: this kind of music, like what were your reflections on that? Like,
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: was it something that you felt really proud of?
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: I'm just curious, like what your general reflection was as
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: being like one of the few women that were in
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: the scene making incredible music.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So here's where I get, um, I'm going to
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: be honest and I don't want my, I don't want
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: my honesty or my candor to be mistaken for like
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: being dismissive or like eye roll because I do recognize
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: that that is a thing and that a lot of
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: women have, have dealt with like weird amounts of dismissal
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: and even harassment to a certain extent. But I do
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: want to be honest about my experience and my head
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: space about gender and equality and things like that. Growing
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: up as a very broad background, I never cared that
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: I was a girl. Not once. Other than when people...
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: the only time I cared is when people would throw
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: it in my face. Like, wait, why, why is, you know,
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: why are you going to play sports? Why, why do
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: you want to play football with us? You know what
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: I mean? And I'm like, cause, cause I want to,
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: what do you mean? Like what? Oh, cause you're a girl.
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: And I was like, It feels like it almost felt
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: like I was forced to consider my own gender more
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: than I ever naturally considered it. I considered myself a
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: person and I considered other people, people. So like, I
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: just never thought in terms of men, women, girls, boys,
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: I just didn't. It feels like it was foisted upon me,
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: thrown at me almost. And it felt almost weaponized. Like
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: it felt like when it was the focus, it was
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: a weapon and like a way to divide or a
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: way to minimize. And I freaking hated that. So like,
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: naturally I didn't tend towards thinking of myself as a
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: woman ever. Oh, do I want to play the guitar? Cool.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: I will. I'm not going to go. Do I want
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: to play the guitar? Are there other women that play it?
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: Maybe I should look and see if it's an, I
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: didn't think like I did not freaking care. I don't care.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? So like playing the drums, oh,
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: you're good for a girl. I don't want to be
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: good for a girl. I just want to hold it
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: down and be respectable where I am as a human.
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: I don't need to be good for a girl. I
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: want to be good, period, right? So I think even
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: especially in my younger years, I almost bristled, bristled at
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: the conversation about gender, like, Why are you bringing it up?
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: Please don't bring up my boobs. You know what I mean? Like,
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: how dare you not just speak to the content of
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: my character and my capabilities as a human being? Because
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: it almost feels minimizing to say for a girl, you know,
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: it's like, I don't, I don't know. So that's my
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: headspace historically about it. And I, I try to be
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: more humble. I think now wisdom softness, I try to
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: be more humble about the fact that that was my
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: experience and that other people had other experiences that were
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: very different. You know, some women clawed to get into
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: a space where they were mistreated. Whereas I don't feel
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: like I did that. I feel like I showed up
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: confidently as me offering what I had and I was
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: accepted because it was enough. And to the guys in
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: NIMS credit, we didn't really talk about me being a
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: girl either. You know what I mean? Like they weren't like,
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: protect her at all costs she's a woman but they
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: also weren't like grab her boobs she's a woman you
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: know what I mean they were like Elaine Elaine we
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: are going to carry our equipment in we are going
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: to set up we are going to play we are
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: a band we are this we are them it wasn't
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: we're a female fronted rock band like no one freaking
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: cared you know what I mean so like I was
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: kind of in a bubble of good men that didn't
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: make it an issue either And maybe they didn't cause
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: they were like, Oh shit, she doesn't want that to
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: be an issue. So let's not make it an issue.
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: Like maybe to their credit, they read the room, but yeah,
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: that's kind of like my experience was, was maybe a
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: little bubble like, and maybe willfully ignorant on my part
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: where I was like, Oh, don't treat me as a woman.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: I can hold my own as a man. You'll see.
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? And it worked. It worked
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: for me. Like I was what I was. I did
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: what I did. I didn't, didn't receive a ton of
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: pushback i wasn't often made to feel less than because
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: i wouldn't accept it i was like no i'm not
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: less than they were like oh we believe you oh
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: shit you know what i mean but like i have
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: had experiences like drumming i showed up to a show
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: i was setting my this was in the early days
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: before i was signed setting up my drums you know
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: and the sound guy comes up and he goes uh
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: you must be the drummer's girlfriend and i was like
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: where's your math Explain to me your math. I'm setting
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: up his drums. Am I now then after I set
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: the drums up, am I going to go make him
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: a sandwich? Like, what are you saying? How is the
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: conclusion not that I'm going to play this instrument that
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: I'm setting? I couldn't believe it. But that was the exception.
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: That's like one of probably two or three stories I
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: can even remember where I was made to feel like
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: a little less than because of my gender. So that's
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: my long winded. asking for grace answer. But my real
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: experience was that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: There's kind of like two sides of like a shitty coin.
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know how to describe it, but like there's
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: one side that like, there's one side that like dismiss
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: would dismiss you because you are a woman.
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: So like, and I would imagine many women experience that.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: And you mentioned even like, there's that story of like
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: you sort of being dismissed because you're a woman thinking that,
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: you know, you weren't even the actual drummer. And then
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: there's the other side that like wants to like, would
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: tokenize you as like, well, Because there's a woman that
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: like that means that like we're going to really push
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: them or something because they have this person that maybe
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: historically hasn't been in these kind of bands. And that
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: can almost feel super shitty, too, I would imagine.
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: And so, yeah, yes. Yeah. So like on both sides,
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: like whether you're getting dismissed or tokenized.
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. If a woman is a bassist and she's not
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: very good, you know. if like she can only just
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: like maybe play the root notes and it feels very
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: token it feels very like whereas like you just don't
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: see a lot of guys who play bass that can
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: only play a root note and hold it down mildly
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: like you just don't because it's the standards different so
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: that's what I would bristle at and I probably was
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: like I don't know internally maybe a little bit of
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: a an a-hole about it i was like oh not
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: another token girl you make me look bad you know
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: what i mean you make people assume that i am
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: that and i am not so like it's like a
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: absolutely two sides of a shitty coin yeah yeah.
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: For sure well i appreciate your your candidness about about
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: that i just i just know especially for a lot
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: of women in the music scene especially whether it's Midwest
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: emo or really any sort of alternative genre, they all
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: kind of have their own like thoughts on it. And,
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: but they do, there's clearly reflections on it because many
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: of them have their, certainly have thoughts on it. So
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: I just appreciate your honesty around it.
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: Of course.
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: It's a thing, whether or not I like it, you know?
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: And I think in my, in my softer, more wise,
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: older age is, is recognizing that, that it is a thing,
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: not bristling and bucking that it's a thing, but figuring
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: out within that thing that, what, what my thoughts and
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: feelings are and sharing those without a judgment on somebody
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: who may feel differently, you know? Totally. So thanks for
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: giving me the opportunity to speak to you.
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: Well, I'd love to hear what's new in the life
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: of Nim. So again, 25 years basically go by, not
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: really much going on. And then now there's a, there's
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: remasters going on.
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah. What, what can we expect in the future for Nim?
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: Well, our full discography comes out officially on the 18th.
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: of this month. So a little more than a week. No, exactly. Exactly.
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: A week.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: I love it. And so that's like the next thing,
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: obviously like the fact that there's even demand or desire
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: for that is so great.
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: Uh, pre that's all. Is that going to be on
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: vine vinyl as well?
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: Both, both. Yeah. So it's fully on vinyl. There's a
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: box set with clear, uh, vinyl. And then there are
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: individual ones with different colored vinyls. So it's kind of
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: like a fun, uh, collectors thing and then there's a
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: cd box that you can get if you just want
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: cds we have three kinds of shirts you can get
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: right now we have stickers and you know all that
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: kind of stuff so the fact that that's happening is
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: great and amazing we're looking forward to next year we're
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: in we're talking about whether or not we can do
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: maybe a week of shows we're You know, we're like
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: trying to figure it out, trying to see if there's
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: demand for it, see if it makes sense and trying
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: to figure out how to get prepared for that. And because,
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: you know, it's been so long and we all want
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: to do it, but that requires kind of a tremendous
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: amount of work on our parts. I've been playing in
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: other bands since then. So I have that many years
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: of music to like move out of the way and
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: tap back into that. And it's been fun to do.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: Like I've been doing guitar tutorials on Instagram and stuff
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: like that. So like, it's been so fun, but yeah.
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: So look out for the release on the 18th. You
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: can pre-order, I mean, you can order anytime, but the
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: pre-orders are already going out. It's fun to see people
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: receiving their vinyls and their CDs and their shirts and
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: getting stoked about it. And yeah, just look out for
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: any shows that we hopefully will do manifest with us,
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: express your desire to go and we'll try to make
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: it out.
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: I feel like it would be a lost opportunity if
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: I didn't ask, but is this sort of resurgence of
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: the band with obviously the catalog coming out, maybe some shows,
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: is there any.
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: Desire to potentially write new NIMH music at some point?
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: Is that a thing at all for you all at
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: this point? And maybe that will change, but I'm curious.
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: No, of course. If it were possible and it made
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: sense and we could, I think all of us would
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: be very down for that. There is a certain synergy
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: that we have and a certain, there's a certain love
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: for each other that we have, having had all those
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: shared experiences, especially the core three, Jamie, Ben, and I.
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: And like Nathan's down to do the reunion shows, which
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: is amazing, you know, but unfortunately for him, he really
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: was only in the last year of NIM like that
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: like kind of the exit phase of NIM so I
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: think there's this like this unfinished business inside of us
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: because it it was supremely important to us it was
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: the thing it was the priority we all gave it
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: supreme priority for years you know and Nathan do his
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: credit for a year and to get to do that again,
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: to get to have that expression outlet, to get to
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: feel that synergy and to see what it is now
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: versus what it was would be such a dream come true.
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: Like once again, only gratitude. If it happens, great. If
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: it doesn't gratitude, anyone's even talking about it. Yeah. Yeah.
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: Love it.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: Well, uh, thanks so much for chatting about Nim. Uh,
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: are we, are you ready to talk about your top
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: five influential albums?
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: I think so. And like, this cannot be considered a
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: definitive list because it's kind of on the fly, but
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: I like on the fly stuff. We'll see what comes up. Um,
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: I think my obvious, and these are in not an
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: order of importance. These are in order of like thought
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: process and maybe even chronological if I'm honest. So I
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: would say the first album of importance would be Led
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: Zeppelin physical graffiti. So it just would, it's the first
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: album ever. through which I experienced musical goosebumps, that like
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: elevation of the soul through music, you know, that I
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: could realize it was possible. So that extremely important. I
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: would say Depeche Mode. And there are so many albums
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: I could choose from. I would almost want to even
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: say multiple albums. But if I had to narrow it
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: down to one album, that would be the biggest influence
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: for me. it might be Violator because Violator came out,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: Violator came out and I began to listen to it.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: Whereas everything else was kind of already out. Right. And
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: so it was when I felt like I was already
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: a fan and I was able to be on the
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: bandwagon rather than catching up with the bandwagon.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: You get to like experience the full album cycle.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: Yes. And I was very young too. So like getting
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: to hop on a bandwagon like, like that and having
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: the album be as good as that too. Like, Because
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: if I'm honest, recently Depeche Mode has not put forth
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: albums that I could say I love from top to bottom.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: But that's an album I love from top to bottom.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: And so to be in real time a fan of
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: that body of work was special to me. And I
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: think Depeche Mode, I also have to credit my interest
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: in slash practice of an ability to sing harmonies was
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: because of Depeche Mode. where I really realized how important
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: harmonies are and how much I enjoy them. Both people
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: singing harmonies with me as the lead and me singing
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: harmonies with people as the lead. So, cause like currently
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: I'm a background vocalist. So like my whole job is harmonies,
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean? And I love it. I
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: love it. So yeah, those two, I would say then
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: Sunday day real estate diary. I remember hearing that. Yeah.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: I remember hearing that in the high school and from,
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: I was like, what is this? You know what I mean?
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: Hold up. I've not heard anything like this before. What
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: is it? I need to know. I need to become
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: versed in it. I need to immerse myself in it.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: So Diary, I think, was the first time I heard
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: an album and was so intrigued by the style, the instrumentalization. Like,
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: what is it? And then I would say, I would
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: say Radiohead. And I know that OK Computer is like
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: a real, like, often answer. But weirdly, it's not mine.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: I would say that mine is The Benz. The Benz
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: even predates any day real estate. The Benz for me,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: I went to The Benz tour as a high schooler.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: I went down with my sister and my friend Jamie,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: who's a guitarist with him. We went down and like
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: in the early afternoon and sat outside of the Metro
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: in Chicago all damn day. And we met every one
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: of them except for Johnny Greenwood and got their signatures
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: and got a poster. And I like, just, I was so,
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: I was such a fan. I mean, I loved Pablo, honey,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: but when the Benz came out, it was like, I mean,
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: you not only didn't disappoint, you raised the bar for yourselves.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: And I just, it was so influential on me. And
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: it felt almost Radiohead to me feels like a non-emo
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: band that's an emo band in a certain way.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. Tom York is so emo-y.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: He's an emo kid. He's an emo kid. And even
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: I think genre-wise, sometimes they trend a little emo. But
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: to their credit, they almost have less rules than emo
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: bands do. They go wherever they darn well please. And gosh,
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: for the most part, I couldn't be more happy to
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: follow them. You know what I mean? Like just, I'll
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: go with you there. Oh, you want to go there now?
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: You did it well. I'll go with you there. So
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: like very jealous of their career trajectory in the fact
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: that they're, it's almost like they got to be different
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: bands that can keep the same name.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: And in fact, they, they're the kind of band where,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: you know, so many bands struggle with like, how can
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: we change our sound and like not alienate our audience?
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: They're almost to a point now where if they don't
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: change their sound, their audience is going to be pissed.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: Absolutely it's like whoa guys we're getting stale yeah but
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: yeah i mean sometimes that works for me personally and
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: other times it's a little alienating but honestly for the
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: most part it's worked and i'm impressed so yeah impressive
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: guys yeah so that's three uh and.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: That's that should be that i think that's four actually
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: is that four yeah so radiohead sunny day real estate
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: um that's right depeche mode and then creating the first
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: one but um okay oh it was led zeppelin yeah
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: so you got one.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: More so i'll I'll do one more and I'll do
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: it current. My favorite album of the last few years
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: that I don't think I can get enough of and
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: I vibe with so hard is Del Water Gap. Do
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: you know who Del Water Gap is?
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: Yes. Okay. So he's got a bunch of singles that
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people would know and maybe
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: not know his name or maybe be casually fans of
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: or whatever. But he has an album, and it's not
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: even his most recent album. It's from, gosh, 2024, I think.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: So it's not super old. But it's I Miss You
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: Already and I Haven't Left Yet. And I could not
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: love it more. You know what I mean? The way
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: he uses words to sum up his headspace, the candor,
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: the self-awareness, of dynamic and what's going on and the
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: ability to put it into words and like both own
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: his own shit and also give like awareness to like,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: but here's what you're doing. I just, I love it.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: 10 out of 10 would recommend if anybody hasn't listened
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: like in entirety to the album or hasn't heard of
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: Dell Water Gap, listen.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 3: Love it. Love it.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: Those are great picks, by the way. Thank you. You
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: can honestly hear a little bit of all of that
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: to some degree in some way, shape, or form in NIMH.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: And so what a great list. What a really great list.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. Thanks. Appreciate it.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: Big fan of that. Well, Elaine, what do you want
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 3: to plug?
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: Obviously, the catalog will be out September 18th, which, yeah,
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: this episode should be out. We're recording on September 11th.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: So the episode should be out on Tuesday. So just
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: a few days before the catalog gets released and then
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: it sounds like maybe hopefully sometime next year, some shows.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: What do you want to plug?
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: Uh, that, well, first of all, keep an eye out
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: on them. I mean, we're on socials. I think Instagram
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: is nim official, you know, like follow us, tag us.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: If you, you know, like I've been doing tutorials, we're
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: doing a giveaway. If people will do like their own
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: version of a cover or whatever. So like just looking
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: for any engagement in that way, like I would love that.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: It's so fun. And even if somebody just messages me
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: about like, hey, this is how NIMH has affected me
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: or whatever, I'm so stoked about that. I try to
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: reply to every damn one of them. You know what
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: I mean? Because it's so important to me that anybody cares.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: So any engagement in that way. But also, I am
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: in a crap ton of other bands. So if you're
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: curious about what I've been doing in the interim since NIMH,
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: you can look up Noble Bodies.com. that's a band that
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: is probably the most similar to NIMH. It's a three-piece.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: I play the drums and I sing, but I also
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: switch to guitar and sing sometimes. But it's very guy-girl vocals,
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: tons of back and forth, stop-start, weird time signatures, soft, loud, melodic, poppy, edgy.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: So I think that's the band that I would say
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: if you're a fan of NIMH, then you might also
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: like Noble Bodies. But also I sing in a pop
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: band called Kissed Out that lyrically like if you want
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: to know my headspace or what it's been follow kissed
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: out check out kissed out's ep sex matters uh that
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: that i feel like is a a trip into my
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: headspace for the time when i hadn't yet come out
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: to myself and because i i'm now an out woman
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: i have a wife like whatever but i was raised
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: mormon on very weird circumstances that told me that being
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: gay was a choice and not to choose it. So like,
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: that's a fun EP to listen to, to get the
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: headspace of when I tried, I was trying to believe
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: that that was correct. And just like how confused I
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: was and, you know, but like trying to assume that
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: I wasn't anyway. So that's a, that's a, that's a trip.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: And also, I'm in Neon Trees, and that's fun. And
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: that's who I currently tour with, and that's the job
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: that pays me. So listen to Neon Trees so I
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: can continue to get a paycheck.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: That's the band that actually got signed to a major
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: label and has had the career since 2010 that is
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: what I always wanted for NIMH or for Noble Bodies
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: or whatever. And so it's cool, albeit it's not me
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: writing the lyrics and on vocals. There is, you know,
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: a song that is mine. But other than that, it's Tyler.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: And that's fine. I love to support his dream. I
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: feel like I get to be a value added in
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: a way that's uniquely caring because I care deeply. I
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: know his lyrics. I want to know. I want to embody.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: I want to be like an extension of his psyche
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: and perform well and whatever. So like all of that,
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: all of that, I'll plug all of that.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: It's all about me. Love it. Love it, Elaine. Anything
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 3: else you'd like to plug?
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: No, be a good human. Here, have your words and
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: actions match.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 3: There you go. Love it. Love it.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: Well, Elaine, thank you so much for chatting more about NIMH. Again,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: like just one of those bands that I love the
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: legacy of it. I love bands with interesting histories like NIMH.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: And so, yeah, just the fact that you guys have
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: been so influential over these years, even maybe to maybe
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: a lesser known way, but like, I just, I just
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: think it's so important for people to know, especially people
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: who are super into Midwest emo to know about Nim.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: And so, yeah, thanks so much for sharing more about
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: the history, the legacy, and just, I'm super excited for
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: whatever could possibly happen in the future with Nim.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 3: I'm so excited for it.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: Thank you. I appreciate it. And thank you for taking
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: the time to talk about it, to let me talk
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: about it, to give it you know, to lend it
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: your platform and your light shined on it. I could
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: not be more grateful. Thank you so much.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. Thank you.