Latest / The Curve / How a Money Diary Can Make You Wealthier & Wiser, with Frances Cook (from the archives).

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How a Money Diary Can Make You Wealthier & Wiser, with Frances Cook (from the archives). · The Curve

0:00
Welcome to Raisin the Curve, a podcast designed to teach you everything that you need to know to be better with your money.
0:06
Come and learn alongside me, Sophie Hallwright, a total beginner from the finance expert Victoria Harris.
0:12
So I've asked all of the questions you wish you could, so that finance, investing and growing your wealth actually makes sense.
0:18
Yes, it's expert education, but we promise we'll not be boring. And in the wise words of sheer...
0:22
My mom said to me, you know sweetheart, one day you should settle down and marry a rich man.
0:28
My mom, I am a rich man. Come and talk and learn and laugh with us because together we really can raise the curve.
0:36
Frances Cook, she is... I want to say she's kind of like New Zealand's finance and investing sweetheart.
0:43
She is the OG female podcaster who talks about money and she was a financial journalist for a really long time before she went out on her own.
0:55
She used to have a podcast called Cooking the Books, such a good name. You can really tell she's a writer.
1:02
And her new podcast, which she's doing all on her own, is called Making Sense. And it is brilliant.
1:07
So if you would like to listen to some more podcasts about money and investing, then highly recommend that.
1:13
But in this conversation, we had it a couple of years ago and they can I have grown and learned and changed so much about the way that we speak about investing and personal finance.
1:25
And honestly, a lot of that has come from this conversation. The way that Frances talks about a money diary, which is just the most genius idea, a money diary is essentially trying to get closer to the feelings that you get when you spend or you save.
1:42
And so this was an idea that she brought up with us years ago and we've now spoken about so, so much.
1:48
We spoke about good first bad debt, which is a really important concept to really grasp because good debt can help you really catapult your wealth in the right direction, if it's used properly.
2:00
We spoke about her best and her worst investments. Oh, and we spoke about the satellite approach when it comes to investing, which is also one of those iconic investing strategies to understand.
2:12
It's essentially the idea that you've got some stuff that you put a lot of your money into and then you kind of have your fun satellite investments.
2:20
So we speak about that as well as lots of other things. So if you are a new investor, you're a beginner and you're trying to understand the concept of growing your wealth through investing.
2:30
This is such a brilliant conversation. But also if you haven't listened to this episode, it's a really great reminder of some key principles when it comes to investing and how you can really make sure that you're understanding the fundamentals and then you build on that knowledge.
2:46
So we hope that you enjoy it. This is such a blast from the past. If I think that when we recorded this, we were stuck in VIX tiny little spare room.
2:55
We had like chords everywhere and it was boiling hot and we couldn't put a fan in and it was just like, honestly, the behind the scenes of that sort of podcast setup was chaotic.
3:06
But such a great conversation and if you've got any questions or comments, please do put them below wherever you're listening and we will make sure we reply and pass them on to Francis.
3:16
But we hope you enjoyed the episode. This is one from the archives.
3:22
We have got Francis Cook in studio who embarrassingly we've already had in front of you and we had technicals and the actual recording blew up.
3:32
So we're very grateful to have you back in especially this morning saying you were on like breakfast TV and all these things.
3:39
And now you're making your way into the curved studio. So thank you so much for being here.
3:42
I just wanted to hang out with you guys. I actually sabotaged your equipment.
3:45
But I just wanted to hang out again.
3:47
It was you.
3:48
Honestly, anytime. Now for anyone who doesn't know, Cook the Books is an amazing podcast that Francis hosts.
3:55
So award winning.
3:56
Yeah, award winning.
3:57
In fact, I remember when the podcast awards came out and we got a couple of bronze awards and we were just beside ourselves.
4:03
And then because you weren't so good, right?
4:05
Was it Am I right?
4:06
I got a silver.
4:07
Yeah, for the business.
4:08
Just pip to the post by Liam Dan and I've already told him I'm coming from next year to watch his kneecaps because I'm coming for them.
4:15
Yeah, fantastic.
4:16
I love it.
4:17
Just yeah, accidentally get second misses a whole lot of his podcast recordings.
4:22
Oh, it shows again.
4:23
That's why we got bronze.
4:25
You should never have let me in your studio.
4:27
I'm taking out the competition.
4:29
But Francis has written two books.
4:31
Is that right?
4:32
Yes.
4:33
So your money or future, which is last year's book?
4:35
Yes.
4:36
And tales from an financial hot mess?
4:39
When did that one come out?
4:40
I should know that.
4:42
2000, my team?
4:43
Yes.
4:44
Someone's done their research.
4:46
And that's what I'm adding for the podcast.
4:50
No, we love talking to you because your approach to money and finances is quite different to VIX.
4:56
So for me, it's super, super helpful.
4:59
There's a real personal finance lens.
5:01
We would love to start now, Vick and I have heard this story.
5:04
But we would love to start with your background and your sort of journey into the personal finance realm.
5:10
What kind of made you passionate about it and care and start to learn?
5:15
How did you end up with you out today?
5:17
I'm really keen to hear your first memory of money or dealing with money.
5:23
Oh, that's a good one.
5:25
Okay.
5:26
So my first ever memory of dealing with money is probably when I was a kid and this is going back so far,
5:31
we moved to New Zealand when I was eight and this memory I remember happened in England.
5:35
So I was quite young.
5:38
And it was my parents would take me to the bank on the weekend and give me two pounds to put into a savings account.
5:45
And that was their version of teaching me money management and you should be saving.
5:49
And here's some of your pocket money.
5:51
It goes into a savings account.
5:53
Extremely cute.
5:54
But it's very similar to how a lot of people experience money.
5:57
We get told to save money or whatever.
6:00
And I'm sure as hopefully all of your listeners already know as saving only gets you so far
6:05
and you have to learn a bit more to it with money if you really want to get ahead.
6:08
So that was really the first experience of money.
6:12
And beyond that, we didn't really talk about money so much in my household.
6:17
And then I hit sort of, you know, you get sold this idea of go to university, get a degree,
6:24
you'll get a really high-paying job.
6:26
And then everything will be fine and you're going to be rich.
6:30
And so you graduate you and you get the first job and you're like, oh, well, it's just the first job.
6:34
And then I'll get a pay rise and then you get a pay rise and you hopefully get a couple more.
6:38
And you're like, why am I still not getting ahead?
6:41
Why is life still so hard?
6:43
Why do I feel like I'm constantly on this hamster wheel and I'm never getting ahead?
6:47
And I hit probably 26, 27.
6:50
And we're starting to get really frustrated.
6:52
I just don't know what I'm doing wrong.
6:55
I'm working really hard and I'm never getting ahead.
6:58
And so I started listening to podcasts.
7:01
And at that stage, podcasts were, this is going to make me sound so old, still a bit new.
7:07
I didn't have any New Zealand personal finance podcasts at that time.
7:10
And so I was listening to all these American podcasts
7:12
and they were really helpful in terms of talking about needing to invest and save
7:16
and how you strategize.
7:18
But some key things were different, obviously like KiwiSaver or whatever, not in there.
7:23
And so as I was listening and I was getting more educated and I started to realize
7:26
some of the things weren't quite right for New Zealand.
7:29
I was like, hmm, this is a great start.
7:31
Now I know where I'm going wrong, but I'm still not totally sure on where I could be going right.
7:37
And I was a political journalist at that time, but was sort of getting to the point where I was like, eh,
7:43
there's a stage in political journalism where you either become a lifer or you do something else.
7:49
And I was starting to realize that doing politics was turning me into a bit of a dickhead
7:54
because you're getting people lying to your face all the time, all day every day,
7:58
that you get to a point where you're like, if someone says, and then I signed it in pen,
8:02
you'd be like, oh, was it pencil?
8:04
Because you're just getting lied to all the time that you're questioning everything
8:07
and it can turn you into a dick in other areas of your life.
8:10
So I was like, kind of looking for something new anyway,
8:12
because I was noticing myself turning into a bit of a dickhead.
8:14
Right.
8:15
And stuff awareness.
8:16
Yeah.
8:17
I bet you weren't, but yeah.
8:19
Go back and talk to Francis then and you might turn to him.
8:23
And so I was like, you know what?
8:25
I'm a journalist.
8:27
This job is basically go and find stuff you didn't know before
8:31
and figure it out.
8:33
And I was like, personal finance.
8:35
Let's do this.
8:36
And pitched my boss as a personal finance podcast, started doing personal finance reporting.
8:41
Got more and more into it.
8:43
I do love about this.
8:44
I love that you recognized this as an area you wanted to learn about
8:48
and educate yourself on and then put yourself in a position to do that as a job
8:53
because I actually think in a weird way that was my fascination with the curve too.
8:57
And we first started because I thought, well, you know what?
9:00
No one listens to this podcast.
9:02
At least I've technically got a personal teacher.
9:04
So sitting down with me everywhere.
9:07
You're learning as well as your building.
9:09
Totally.
9:10
Your career or your business or your...
9:12
And helping yourself at the same time is helping other people.
9:14
And I think that there's something in that just your personal fascination
9:19
with wanting to be better and also to be aged 27 and realise,
9:23
oh, how am I not getting ahead?
9:25
I reckon it took me to get to 30 before I was like,
9:27
how is this still happening?
9:29
Like, how am I still getting to the end of my paycheck every week?
9:32
I'm just...
9:33
I just adjust my lifestyle depending on how much I earn.
9:36
Which I never really sat down and was like, sort it out.
9:39
You know?
9:40
It's so cool that you had that realisation.
9:42
And it's so funny that that's just like the natural journey of life
9:45
is to go to school, get a job, grind it out, die.
9:48
You know?
9:49
Well, you know, it's like, where is the sitting down going?
9:52
Okay, what do you enjoy?
9:53
What are you really passionate about?
9:55
What do you want...
9:56
And then like, okay, how do you mold your life and building wealth into that?
10:02
And that would be such a bit of conversation to have with a career's
10:05
counsellor at school rather than like, what do you want to be?
10:08
A lawyer or a doctor or an accountant?
10:10
Nothing against those professions.
10:13
But like, you know, there just wasn't the broad thinking.
10:16
And so, yeah, gosh, I think, yeah, commend you for kind of realising
10:20
that there was a gap in the market in New Zealand as well.
10:23
So, there's a podcast spent around for nearly 10 years.
10:25
It's been around now for...
10:27
Oh, that old.
10:30
Shit, so you're 75?
10:34
You're looking great.
10:36
The eye cream is really work out.
10:38
It's been, it's more than five years.
10:41
I'm not sure if it's five or six years coming up now.
10:43
Amazing.
10:44
Coming up to six years now.
10:45
And sometimes people would message me and be like,
10:47
oh, I've gone back and I'm listening from the beginning.
10:49
I'm listening to the very first episodes and I'm like, please don't.
10:52
Yeah.
10:53
Because grown a lot in that time.
10:56
It's a very different podcast and I certainly hope it's better
10:59
than those first few episodes.
11:01
It's like it, Instagram.
11:02
Like, I think about all the kids who have social media now.
11:05
And I'm like, thank goodness I didn't have it when I was seven
11:07
because it would be traumatising to look back at the early post, wasn't it?
11:10
Oh, I used to post everything.
11:12
I went back the other day and deep and also my captions.
11:15
I was like, what are you fucking talking about?
11:17
What is this nonsense?
11:19
Yeah.
11:20
And I'm like, hey, why did you post that?
11:21
You don't need to post a picture of a garden or something real.
11:23
It's super boring at all.
11:24
When you have a random night out and you've got 30 pictures
11:27
uploaded the next morning, like a whole album of nonsense.
11:30
You're like, nobody cared.
11:31
What are you supposed to post?
11:32
You're quite nice.
11:34
You just post about them where it's now.
11:36
It's so created and so, like, filtered and everything.
11:39
It would be a real bad.
11:40
That's where I'm going.
11:42
Look at my dad snow uploads like entire albums.
11:45
He's like, my darling daughter.
11:47
And then there's like 45 photos of him.
11:48
Yeah, my dad.
11:49
Come on on, kids.
11:51
Cute though.
11:52
Hide from profile.
11:53
Can we talk about this?
11:56
There's a lot of people who, as I mean, I don't mean to sound like a broken record.
12:02
But life is expensive.
12:04
People are struggling to breathe at the moment.
12:07
What would be some top tips, tracks?
12:10
And I know this is a super open-ended question
12:12
because there's many things that people could do.
12:14
But if there's someone who's sort of feeling a bit like you were
12:17
when you're like, can you just set a podcast?
12:19
Because I need to learn more.
12:20
What would be some really good basic starting things to put in place
12:25
to try and become a little bit more financially?
12:28
Well, fit financially.
12:30
Healthy?
12:31
Thank you.
12:32
That's what I was looking for.
12:33
I always reckon start with the money diary
12:35
because that just helps you figure out what's important to you, right?
12:39
And it's the old thing that people get so sick of,
12:41
you know, finances, pension, you know, except it is.
12:43
That's why everyone says it.
12:44
It's really annoying.
12:45
I know.
12:46
We always get asked like, oh, how much should I save?
12:48
And I'm like, I can't give, you know,
12:49
well, how much should I be?
12:50
It's like, oh, I wish I could give you a dollar amount.
12:52
What's your budget?
12:53
A dollar amount.
12:54
But even on sort of different things, yeah.
12:55
Sorry.
12:56
Yeah.
12:57
No.
12:59
Or it's like, sorry, I can't tell you because of the rules and regulations.
13:03
It's like, oh, my gosh.
13:04
They just like, help me.
13:05
And you know, I can't.
13:06
I want to.
13:07
Yeah.
13:08
But there's a reason why we got.
13:09
Yeah.
13:10
So yeah, money diary, where at least a week, right?
13:12
If you can do it for longer, you'll figure out even more about yourself.
13:15
But at least a week because some people find it confronting to watch their money.
13:18
So just write down every single thing you spend for that week.
13:22
And also, it's not just about cutting things.
13:25
But how much you needed to spend that and also how happy it made you.
13:30
Because all of this is only about building a life that you enjoy, right?
13:34
The point of money is not to be good or like the most deprived or the most right.
13:39
It's about building a life that you enjoy.
13:41
So how happy it made you is a really important thing.
13:44
So an example of that could be going out for brunches every Sunday.
13:48
If that is like the highlight of your week, even though you spent five dollars.
13:52
And you can afford it.
13:53
Important caveat.
13:54
And then maybe that's something you choose to keep in there.
13:57
Is that a good example?
13:58
100% showing makes me feel great.
14:01
There you go.
14:02
Are you serious?
14:03
Would that be something you keep in there?
14:05
Maybe I'd just scale it back a bit.
14:07
Sorry, back to the money diary.
14:09
So we start by potentially a week or two riding down everything you spend money on.
14:13
And then also how does it make you feel?
14:15
Yeah.
14:16
And from that, you're going to know, A, where's your biggest spending areas?
14:20
You're going to find there's always at least one thing that you didn't need.
14:24
And it actually didn't make you happy either.
14:26
So that's easy.
14:27
Biffett, who cares?
14:28
But you're going to know your priorities.
14:30
You're going to know what's adding to your life.
14:32
You're going to know where your big spending areas are.
14:34
And then from there, I always think, attack your big expenses first.
14:38
People love to go on about, take away coffees or have a kind of intestines.
14:43
Really annoying.
14:44
Shut up, boomers.
14:45
But we love you if you're listening.
14:49
If you're listening, then we will exclude you from the boomer category.
14:52
Technically, a boomer without having a boomer mentality.
14:55
I'm just saying.
14:57
It's attacking those big expenses, things like your rent or your power or whatever.
15:02
If you can look at those and be like, how can I be smarter about this?
15:05
Even just shopping around for your power, going to power switched up August and Z.
15:09
And it's not going to be any different on when your lights turn on,
15:13
as long as you still paint the bill.
15:16
It's just, you know, you're going to get the best plan for you into your lifestyle.
15:19
And any of those sort of regular costs, any of those big costs,
15:23
those are the ones you want to attack first.
15:26
But what about rent?
15:27
You know, that's a really good example, because I did see one of your podcast episodes
15:31
was something about, you know, as rent did money.
15:34
And I mean, I guess my question would be, say you realise you're paying way more
15:40
than you should be in rent.
15:41
What would you, what would you action from that?
15:44
Like, what would be a, what do you do?
15:46
And it's like, you can call your landlord and be like, ham a bit.
15:48
Bro, could you please just like reduce my rent?
15:51
And the landlord's like, sure, why not?
15:53
Is it like move house?
15:54
Is that, it's probably move house and way up.
15:56
Okay, the cost of transport to work or the commute.
16:00
And then if I'm paying less rent, you know, like doing, doing a bit of a spreadsheet or, you know, 100%.
16:07
I knew so I said that word as I lost her.
16:09
She's gone.
16:10
But yeah, weighing up those, yeah, like all the costs and if it ends up being cheaper living,
16:16
maybe a bit further out, or if not, if ends up being the same.
16:19
But yeah, rent is a hard one because it is.
16:21
There's like, it's a fixed cost that you can't avoid.
16:24
And if you're in a house, moving house is expensive in itself.
16:27
So it's like, are you then going to spend another two grand moving when you could have just spent that on the rent?
16:32
You know, I'm just curious if there's any way someone could get around those big ticket items.
16:38
Because it's easy to cut out a coffee or cut out your other car that are chose.
16:41
But then when it comes to massive stuff, how do you avoid or reduce?
16:45
Well, it's easy to cut out coffee unless you're already not buying it, right?
16:48
Unless your money is already going to only the big ticket things in life and you've got nothing left.
16:53
Which can happen to a lot of us really easily.
16:56
And I think the thing is, as you just mentioned there, is you look at those big costs together.
17:02
So the biggest costs for most New Zealanders are housing, transport and food.
17:07
And you can kind of play around with those categories together.
17:10
So you might live more centrally.
17:12
It might cost you a bit more money.
17:14
But from that, you can sell your car and you don't need it anymore because you can walk to work and you can take trains
17:19
because you might be living in bread and butter and you can get everywhere.
17:22
Or you might live further out.
17:24
And it's worth the extra transport cost because you're saving so much on rent.
17:28
And it's those sorts of things like have a little way up of what works for your lifestyle.
17:34
And rent might be a lot.
17:36
Do you have a spare room that you could bring in?
17:38
Could you rent one of the rooms to a couple so you can charge them a bit more?
17:42
You start thinking about all of these things and getting a little bit strategic.
17:46
You mentioned there is renting.
17:48
I'm going to eat up with four people in my bedroom.
17:50
I'm going to just feel it.
17:52
Or just get a boyfriend and then you can swap the rent.
17:54
But it's expensive being single.
17:56
I reckon it's just going to be, I'm going to have bunks in my room.
18:00
It's going to be three of us in the bed.
18:02
There's going to be two people in bed.
18:04
I'm going to be like stunning.
18:06
This is cheap and I have no personal space.
18:08
But it's fine. I'm wealthy with no personal space.
18:10
Stacking that gap.
18:12
These are all good ideas.
18:14
You know, it's being creative with what is your situation.
18:16
And is there anything you can do to mix it up or save?
18:20
And then what is the big stuff that's actually going to move the needle,
18:22
rather than buying a different type of oat milk?
18:24
Because it's saving you 50 cents.
18:26
Which I'm not saying you shouldn't do.
18:28
But I don't think it's that inspiring when you're already stressed about money.
18:32
It'd be like, amazing. I'm saving $2.75 a week.
18:34
Oh my God. I literally saw a thing the other day being like,
18:38
make sure you only boil the amount of water that you need in your kettle.
18:40
You can save $26 a year doing this.
18:44
So 50 cents a week if I'm constantly monitoring my kettle usage,
18:48
that's not what my brain power is worth more than 50 cents a week.
18:52
Are you joking?
18:54
And then I go get a parking ticket and make $26 a year.
18:56
It's gone. I'm even joking.
18:58
I'm like, dammit.
19:00
All that used with the kettle.
19:02
Gone out for no one parking ticket.
19:04
I reckon the other thing as well is it's like,
19:06
that is just sucking the fun out of life.
19:08
I'm not saying I enjoy filling up a kettle.
19:10
And that's like this big kick for me.
19:12
But it's more just, I think budgeting with that idea of it,
19:16
there's so much resistance because it's boring, it's stressful,
19:20
it's like, amazing.
19:22
Everything's just now not fun.
19:24
And I do think there needs to be this balance of like,
19:26
how can we inject a bit of a different attitude towards budgeting?
19:30
And that's why I think the money diary is so good because it's like,
19:32
okay, I feel great when I spend money on this before I place a lot of value on this.
19:36
So I'm not, that's going to be one of the last things I cut back on
19:40
because I also don't want to walk around, you know, feeling sad and unhappy.
19:44
Yeah.
19:46
You mentioned about, you know, other ways that you can keep an eye on these big expenses.
19:50
I think the big thing is as well.
19:52
We often talk about cutting back because it's something you can control immediately.
19:56
But if you're looking at rent, right,
19:58
you might be living somewhere, say you're in your 20s,
20:00
and you're living somewhere that's expensive.
20:02
It's because you're currently investing into your career.
20:04
Or your lifestyle.
20:06
Or making friends, meeting new people.
20:08
Totally.
20:09
Finding a boyfriend.
20:11
I mean, I'm not sure we can find someone and pine her.
20:15
You know, like how many single guys are there?
20:17
There's pine, exactly.
20:19
You know, I tried moving to the mouth.
20:21
There was no lot of single people.
20:23
Hey, well, Grayland doesn't have a lot of single people either, so I think we're kind of...
20:25
We had the most, sorry, just as a side dog.
20:27
Funny DM coming today.
20:29
It was like, what was that?
20:31
We haven't even talked to others,
20:33
but I got a screenshot of them.
20:35
Like, do you know this guy?
20:37
Why won't you share my comments?
20:39
And when we're sharing other people's comments,
20:41
and I was like, keep liking his post just to be nice.
20:43
Anyway, they sent a video last night.
20:45
I was like, oh god, I don't even know if I want to open this.
20:47
And in this morning, I kind of forgot.
20:49
And I went in and opened up and I was like, oh fuck!
20:51
What was it?
20:53
He was like, top, or he's probably, I don't know,
20:55
he was in a hot tub.
20:57
And he was going,
20:59
what?
21:01
And he said hi, Sophie, with a love heart.
21:03
And I sent it to Sophie.
21:05
And I was like, absolutely not.
21:07
I'm like, oh god.
21:09
Okay, sorry, sorry.
21:11
What were you saying, sorry Francis?
21:13
When we went real low rowing.
21:15
Investing in people.
21:17
And boyfriends, that's where we go.
21:19
That's kind of the thing about good debt and bad debt as well.
21:21
Like student loans and mortgages.
21:23
Like they're effectively investments into investment being yourself,
21:27
or your property.
21:29
I used to get really concerned when I had a lot of student loans.
21:33
And my student loan was that massive.
21:35
And I was like, oh my god, oh my gosh.
21:37
And then I was like, but you know what, now having paid it off
21:39
and seeing it as a worthwhile investment.
21:41
You know, it's kind of, it's the same with a mortgage.
21:43
I'm like freaking out that I have a mortgage.
21:45
But it's like, you know what?
21:47
That's going to help me in the future.
21:49
And it's just kind of like changing that mindset.
21:51
I would love to talk about that.
21:53
Good debt, bad debt.
21:55
What's the difference?
21:57
How do you know if something is good or bad?
21:59
Basically, as just said.
22:01
Yeah.
22:03
If you're investing into yourself and your future, right?
22:05
So it's, you know, your education, your earning power.
22:09
Something like an asset like a house.
22:11
Yeah.
22:13
That is all stuff that's building for your future, right?
22:15
Something like a holiday where it's here and then it's gone.
22:19
Or even buying clothes.
22:21
I know a lot of people can rack up debt on clothes.
22:23
I mean, that's all stuff that's not going to be building for your future.
22:27
Why are you doing that?
22:29
If we were to take a tour on Vick's wardrobe,
22:31
it would be like, you know, the walking clothes.
22:33
If we said rack up debt on clothes.
22:35
True. So yeah, thank you.
22:37
She buys it outright.
22:39
And just put another stuff on the credit card.
22:41
So okay, so I think also an interesting thing to circle back to
22:45
would be your money diary suggestion
22:47
because say buying clothes brings you a huge amount of joy.
22:51
Or a holiday is really what you need for your mental health to feel good again.
22:55
Then that is money, wealth spent, right?
22:57
That's going to be different for everybody.
22:59
And you can still, when you look at that,
23:01
you might be like, okay, what's the smartest way
23:03
that I can get joy from that?
23:05
So I am also someone I love shopping.
23:07
I love wearing what I feel like is nice clothes at least.
23:11
But I, you know, three years ago decided
23:13
I'm only going to do secondhand shopping for a year.
23:16
And I enjoyed it so much.
23:18
I'm still going.
23:19
Everything I have now basically is secondhand.
23:21
I love vintage shopping.
23:22
It's so good.
23:23
So much joy from that.
23:24
The idea that not everyone in Auckland is going to have the same thing.
23:26
Like, it's me I love.
23:27
Totally.
23:28
And I find it really fun.
23:29
And I feel like it's going on a little treasure hunt.
23:32
And I get to indulge my desire to have a wardrobe that my poor husband has kicked out of.
23:37
He gets like two things in there literally.
23:40
And the rest of it is all mine.
23:42
And, you know, and I still haven't spent masses on it.
23:45
So it works for me.
23:47
So that was my way of being smarter about something that brings me joy.
23:50
So it might be a holiday you go into.
23:52
Still rather than your B&B.
23:54
But actually, like that, I mean, maybe it's not that, but maybe it's going to campaign for a holiday.
23:59
I might ignore a holiday.
24:00
A staycation rather than going to a city.
24:02
Yeah.
24:03
Yeah.
24:04
Because a combination when you're traveling is so expensive, it's nuts.
24:08
What would you say has been the best investment you've ever made?
24:13
It's not going to be a bit tweey, but it's going to be the investment into my own knowledge.
24:18
I honestly can't say that.
24:21
Yeah.
24:22
I hate so much.
24:23
Or my child.
24:24
The investment into my own knowledge.
24:26
I should have said that.
24:27
Yeah.
24:28
Nobody let my child know this.
24:30
Of course it's you, babe.
24:34
Yeah, no, seriously, the figuring things out.
24:36
I mean, because now I am also qualified.
24:39
I've got my level five financial advisors to forget.
24:43
I just did that because now I get so many more questions.
24:45
I wanted to make sure I'd like cross my teeth.
24:48
But just making sure that I'm across things and I'm talking to experts all the time and I've done my homework.
24:55
And then having that knowledge behind you means that when you do go to make a decision.
25:02
And sometimes things get a bit hairy.
25:04
It's a little hairy in the share market out there.
25:06
It's hairy in the property market.
25:08
You have that confidence in what you're doing because you understand the mechanics of what's going on behind the scenes.
25:15
And you understand how things have gone before.
25:18
How it's likely to go this time, even if it takes months or years.
25:21
And it gives you that confidence to ride things out and not make emotional decisions.
25:25
Emotions of money do not mix.
25:27
So much easier said than done, right?
25:29
So when you are making those decisions and you might be making a few thousand dollars into the share market.
25:35
That feels like a big investment, depending on where you're at.
25:38
It's still that knowledge that's behind you that's letting you make those moves.
25:43
I've only recently started investing.
25:45
It took me probably a year and a half of podcasting and learning with it for me to say I'm so proud of myself.
25:51
But I've invested now, I think almost 50 grand into the stock market, which is huge for me.
25:58
And a lot of people have said that, kind of not fair mungering, but then like, oh well, are you not worried?
26:03
Because it's going down.
26:04
And I really hand on heart and say, oh, I'm actually really confident in what I've invested in.
26:09
Yeah, I don't feel worried by my money being there at all.
26:13
And it's taken a while to get there.
26:15
But I do know what you mean.
26:16
I think there's that piece of mind that you're looking after yourself, looking after your future and you understand what you're doing.
26:23
Or this has happened before and it's probably going to happen again.
26:26
And it's fine.
26:27
This is just all part of it.
26:28
And once you know that, it's so much less scary.
26:30
You know, we were talking about how the stock market in New Zealand is only finished down four times in the last 20 years.
26:36
So, you know, last year was a was a pretty bad year globally.
26:39
It's like, okay, well, I want to take advantage of this.
26:41
I don't want to be sitting here in four years time.
26:42
I'm like, no, damn, I wish I'd invest it then.
26:45
In hindsight, it always looks like an opportunity.
26:47
Yeah.
26:48
In the moment, that's when it's really easy to get scared.
26:50
Totally.
26:51
And you've got headlines.
26:52
You've got media headlines that are like, we were talking about this the other day about, you know, Apple has it slowest sales growth in four years.
26:59
And it's like, that's their job.
27:01
Their job is to sell newspapers again.
27:03
Yeah, but it's like, as a budding investor or like a beginner investor, that stuff freaks you out.
27:09
So, yeah.
27:10
We've got women all over the world that listen to us.
27:14
That's quite wild, isn't it?
27:15
So, I love that you say we've got as well.
27:17
It's like we own them.
27:18
I know.
27:19
I know.
27:20
And it's very cool when you look at the podcast analytics and you see there's like a big, like a map.
27:27
Yeah.
27:28
And it like shades in the countries of people that listen, which is pretty amazing.
27:31
And you're like, wow, someone in Iceland, someone in Albania.
27:34
Yeah.
27:35
It's quite cool.
27:36
And we thought, how do we get all these women together in one place to talk about investing?
27:41
And so, we started an investing club.
27:44
I like a book club, but you talk about investments.
27:46
Yeah.
27:47
Which is cool because a lot of guys have this with their guy mates.
27:50
You know, like they'll have their WhatsApp chat or they put $100 in a month.
27:54
I actually met some of the other day who was talking about his investment club with his friends.
27:58
And they invest in all sorts of things, like from vintage wine to specific companies.
28:03
But we just don't tend to do it.
28:05
And also, I think it's maybe because a lot of us don't feel super confident.
28:09
But because the club is kind of run by that, you have your expert overlay, which makes it so much better.
28:15
And just seeing all women from all parts of the world bringing in different investing ideas.
28:22
And introducing themselves and being like, this is in my portfolio.
28:25
We've got moms.
28:26
We've got students.
28:27
We've got business owners.
28:28
We've got so many incredible women.
28:31
We've got people that are new to invest.
28:33
We've got people that are investing for ages.
28:35
And seeing everyone talking and sharing ideas of what they're invested in.
28:40
And what changes they want to make.
28:42
It's just like so incredible to see.
28:44
It is.
28:45
Yes, we're very proud of the club.
28:47
There's so many cool people in there.
28:49
If you would like to join, we will put a link in our podcast show notes for you.
28:53
See you there.
28:54
What about your worst investment?
28:56
Have you ever put money somewhere and been like, that was dumb?
28:59
Probably shouldn't have done that.
29:00
Yes, actually.
29:01
Okay.
29:02
So I don't invest into crypto myself.
29:05
You two are going to be best friends.
29:07
I basically forced back into investing in crypto with that.
29:10
Hey, we did recently.
29:12
And it's up. It's gone bananas.
29:14
Hey, there you go.
29:15
Happy about it.
29:16
Not timing the market at all.
29:18
No.
29:19
But okay, so I wanted a little bit of exposure to the crypto market.
29:25
And so I invested into companies that service the crypto economy.
29:30
FTX.
29:31
No, thankfully.
29:33
Lord, those types of companies that were listed.
29:37
It's currently negative 60%.
29:43
But because I looked at it and was like, this is a massive punt.
29:47
And I don't know how it's going.
29:48
I think it was like $500 that went in there.
29:51
You didn't rate mortgage the house.
29:53
I didn't rate mortgage the house.
29:54
And so I look at it and it's negative 60%.
29:57
And I'm just like, this is why I don't invest in crypto.
30:01
But at the same time, I knew it was risky.
30:04
I knew it was just a little dabble in a play.
30:06
So it was only a few hundred bucks.
30:07
Now, a few hundred bucks that I would still like to not lose.
30:09
I'm just leaving it there and hoping that maybe one day it'll come back.
30:12
We'll see.
30:13
But yeah, that was, that was not a great one.
30:15
That's all right.
30:16
Yeah.
30:17
I think because you've diversified and you've also,
30:19
you didn't go and put 5,000 or 10,000 in it.
30:22
It's not such a scary, you know.
30:24
I like the core satellite idea where you have your core of 70, 80%
30:30
of your investments just goes into the standard index funds.
30:34
You know that stuff is always performed well over time.
30:36
That's your wealth building strategy.
30:38
And that would be what, like the S&P, 500, the, you know,
30:41
the main music of D's, Australian index, ASX 500, 200.
30:46
Yeah.
30:47
Yeah.
30:48
Okay.
30:49
So it's those main big indexes that, you know,
30:50
really diversified, yeah.
30:52
Growing up, seven types in a year.
30:53
Yeah.
30:54
If those collapse, that means your entire economy is collapsed
30:56
and you're not worried about your share portfolio.
30:58
You're getting out the bow and arrow and going ahead.
31:00
Yeah.
31:01
You know, it's not good.
31:02
Oh my god, I love that.
31:05
That, you know, then you're 20%.
31:07
If you are someone who likes to stockpick, if you are someone
31:10
who you just must have some sort of picking things out
31:15
and having a little play and a little dabble, then keep that
31:18
to just 20%.
31:19
Those are your little satellites.
31:21
Now, I'm such a boring investor that it's not even 20%
31:24
of my portfolio, but I do like to have a little play now and then.
31:28
So that's how I frame it in my head as the core satellite.
31:32
Make sure you've got your core sorted first.
31:34
I think I do that.
31:35
Yeah.
31:36
I have the core, which is like quite boring.
31:38
But then I still want the element of like stockpick,
31:41
like looking at Netflix and things like that.
31:43
It's down to 70%.
31:44
That business is not broken.
31:45
I'm going to put a couple of, you know, a couple hundred dollars
31:47
in there and, you know, see what happens.
31:49
And it's like, if it goes down another 70% it's all well lost.
31:52
But yeah, I think there is something about like also just
31:55
kind of owning a little bit of a company and like following it
31:59
and they're learning about, you know, what makes the sheer price move
32:03
and that kind of stuff is actually really good.
32:05
But if you're not that confident, yeah, don't,
32:08
don't really mortgage the house and put it all in Netflix or anything.
32:11
I'd like to just finish by asking one question.
32:14
What would be your favourite saving tip?
32:19
Is there any fun little silly ones that are like,
32:22
buy this instead of this or, I don't know,
32:26
put toothpaste on your toothbrush every night
32:28
because you use less or like, I don't know.
32:30
I don't know what that was.
32:32
But you know, just, is that anything we are like,
32:34
this is fun, weird, but like, I kind of like it.
32:36
Do you know what's funny?
32:37
Is I'm less on the savings tip bandwagon
32:39
and more on the earn more bandwagon, especially for women.
32:43
I feel like we often get targeted with coupon clipping
32:47
and cut back and restrict.
32:50
And that's really important, right?
32:53
Like, I don't want to say it's not important.
32:55
I still stay on a budget and actually,
32:57
we just had a conversation at our household.
32:59
We were like, oh, we need to stop spending so much on food.
33:01
This is ridiculous.
33:03
So all of that stuff is really important.
33:05
But there is also only so much you can cut back.
33:07
Whereas there's no ceiling on how much you can earn, right?
33:10
I mean, I'm so about this.
33:12
And so I often think is,
33:14
what can you do to level up your career?
33:17
What can you do to level up side projects
33:21
if you have the time and energy for those?
33:24
That's probably my thing is how can you invest into yourself
33:27
and your future earning potential
33:29
so that you don't have to worry so much about saving and cutting back?
33:32
It might take a while to pay off.
33:34
The good thing about savings is that they pay off pretty much immediately
33:37
if you can find them.
33:38
But if you can put that longer term investment into your earning,
33:42
I just think that's more fun for people
33:45
and you'll get more options in life.
33:47
I love that.
33:48
I feel really inspired.
33:49
That was why my savings tip was...
33:52
What was it going to be?
33:53
The toothpaste one?
33:54
Because that was sure.
33:55
I was just going to say,
33:57
I pretend that you feel you wanted all the time
33:58
and get your friends to pay.
34:01
If it works...
34:02
Oh my gosh, that happened to me the other day.
34:04
I went for a coffee with Symbani and I walked out.
34:06
I had breakfast, she didn't.
34:08
So I had majority of the bill.
34:10
And I was like, bye babe.
34:11
Nice to see you and walked out.
34:12
And then I was like, oh my god.
34:14
And I had to run back into her debts.
34:16
And I was like, I'm so sorry that wasn't a money saving tip.
34:19
I promise, I promise.
34:20
They're like, this is the 10th time Sophie.
34:22
I never do this.
34:26
Thank you so much for spending your morning with us.
34:29
That's lovely.
34:30
It's always so lovely to talk to you.
34:32
I know.
34:33
I promise this is recording.
34:34
It's so soft-chicking throughout the whole episode.
34:36
Just soft-chicking everything.
34:38
Yep, yep.
34:39
I hate being the technical producer.
34:41
It's really not my strategy.
34:42
If anyone out there wants to be the technical producer for the curse.
34:44
Please go to sytheathecurve.co.nz and just flick me an email.
34:47
That's your highest.
34:49
Thank you so much for listening to Raisin the Curve.
34:53
These conversations are designed to teach you everything you need to know to be better with your money.
34:57
I'm saving, to investing, to talking with your friends about your salaries or that stuff.
35:01
And if you like what you heard, we would love if you could please hit subscribe,
35:04
wherever you're listening and leave a comment.
35:06
Let us know what you thought about the episode.
35:08
And it only takes one second and it would really make our week a month.
35:12
They're here.
35:13
Yeah, yeah.
35:14
So please do it.
35:16
Okay, quickly, the curve was created to empower and educate you about investing,
35:20
but we are not financial advisors.
35:22
Our platform exists for educational purposes only,
35:25
and it doesn't provide personalized investing advice for your individual needs
35:28
and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision.
35:32
And always remember to do your own research before making any investment or financial decision.
35:36
We're here for any knowledge and support you need,
35:39
but the final call is always yours.
35:41
And thanks for being here.
35:42
You got this.
35:43
Yeah, we know you got this.