Latest / The Commercial Builders’ Network (TCBN) / Want Bigger Construction Contracts? Build Your Business for Them | Claudette Freeman
Transcript
- speaker-0: There are people who work in construction, and then there are people who decide to build something of their own within the industry. Today we're talking about what it actually takes to make that transition. How do you go from understanding construction to owning a general contracting company? How do you build credibility, find projects, develop relationships with subcontractors, compete for larger opportunities? And grow in an industry where very few people sitting at the ownership table look like you. Our guest is Claudette Freeman, managing partner of Feneral Construction, a black woman-owned full service construction firm providing design build, general construction, construction management, and turnkey project delivery. And today I want to talk about how she built it. And what her journey can teach the next person who wants to do the same. Let's get into it. This is the Commercial Builders Network, where we like to say, construction can change your life and it's starting to look a lot like it. speaker-1: This is speaker-0: The Commercial Builders Network, where trust is restored, power is reclaimed, and legacy is. Let's get to work. Hello, beautiful people, and welcome to another episode of the Commercial Builders Network. My name is Sani Sharida. I'm your host, and today we have the beautiful Claudette Freeman from F General Construction. How are you doing today? Are you? I am well. I am well. So glad to have you. speaker-1: Bill. I'm doing well, Carl. Glad to be here. speaker-0: Awesome, awesome. So we're gonna dive right in. I wanna know, before you became an owner of a general contracting company, what got you into construction in the first place? speaker-1: growing up, I just always like to see how things go together, how they put together, how they stand. ⁓ when I was in high school, I did that test to figure out which what is your interest. And it was in engineering and it was in math and it was in drawing, and I ended up going into architectural engineering to try that out. So that's how I started. speaker-0: Awesome. And from architectural engineering and then you also have done project management, what made you feel like I don't just want to be a part of this, I wanna own something? speaker-1: ⁓ it was a it was a big transition. I I did about five years as an architect doing like cookie cutters. And one day one of my bosses took me in the field and I was like, ⁓ my lord, I like this. ⁓ I see how this goes together. This is so cool, this is so nice. And ⁓ I d I kept going back and forth in the field, seeing how from the paper to it actually being built, and it was exciting and I said, You know what? I'm tired of sitting in front of a computer. I like being outside. So I dusted off my resume and ⁓ started interviewing for a management job, project management. speaker-0: And what was the difference, do you feel like? ⁓ that did it pull something else out of you that you didn't know was there? speaker-1: ⁓ it was a bigger difference because being an architect is really cool and I liked it. ⁓ but I like people, I like to interact, I like to solve, you know, be that that puzzle I'm a puzzle person, so I like solving puzzles. And being in management made it so much easier to to use all of those items. So it made it really interesting for me and I I was a whole lot more I guess at peace doing that. speaker-0: Awesome. So before F and F you started with Red Trinity as a company and you were basically supporting these different companies, general countr construction companies, right? On the administrative side. Correct. Can you share a little bit about your expertise on that side? speaker-1: Well, let's go back. ⁓ so before I started Red Trinity, I was working for a company and I was doing ⁓ consulting as a project manager for different ⁓ government entities. And in doing so before that, I was working for another company being a client ⁓ liaison. So with those backings and understanding those items led me to see that a lot of the contractors could do the work, could handle the work, but couldn't handle the paperwork and couldn't handle, you know, ⁓ being ahead of the game to get the next job. So they will finish this job and wouldn't be able to ⁓ maintain their their day to day because they had nothing else in the pipeline because they was too busy handling what they had in front of them. So it made me start paying attention to what was going on around and I said, there's a need for someone to help build that gap, that that empty void. And that's how I developed Red Trinity. speaker-0: Awesome. I mean that's that's probably one of the things I talk about the most on this podcast is that that gap's is very much alive to this day. Like very much needed where small businesses are in desperate need of the the the administrative the how to pre qualify and actually get the opportunities to expand their businesses. So you are doing very important work. speaker-1: Thanks. speaker-0: So tell me, what gave you the confidence to actually like go out on your own and be able to create opportunities for other people? speaker-1: I guess you can family and the and and the people around me. ⁓ my husband was a big supporter of mine's because, you know, ⁓ at the time I was doing a lot of traveling and I really want to be home instead of being on the road a lot. And with opening my own company made it easier for me to pick and choose and be able to be there for the family, in addition to having that support from a lot of people in the industry and that was saying, hey, you helped me out tremendously. You should do this for other people. And it was just one of those things that I kind of just said, ⁓ let me try it. So I I asked my husband, I said, can you do without the finances that I bring in for a year or two to see if there's something that I can make into, you know, ⁓ make it financially feasible for us as a family. He said, yes. So I did it. And it worked out. speaker-0: I love it. So was it a cakewalk for you in the beginning? Like tell me about that transition. speaker-1: ⁓ no. I would never say it was a cakewalk. I would say it was a venture. ⁓ it was one of those things where you say to yourself, ⁓ I'm gonna do this. I can handle this. And then you get inside of it and you say, ⁓ crap. Was I thinking everything through? Did I did I think about this? Did I know this? Because you know, it's a big gap from going from working for someone. and working for yourself. You know, the the liability, the capability, the building that block to make sure that, you know, you have yourself in a place to keep moving. The hardest part for me was understand the feast and famine. Like you're eating right now 'cause you're making good money, but in two months, okay, it's holiday, it's this, it's that. I mean, you can't push somebody to give me work or the the gaps of the work is getting bigger or smaller. So ⁓ it was understanding how to plan and manage my time wisely so I could fill those gaps that I know was coming. And that took a while. speaker-0: Yeah, so so what advice would you give to a a a an early on small business that's like they're in the trenches right now and they're like I'm in one of those gaps and they need some advice to like keep pushing is coming. speaker-1: would say the main thing is is understanding your management of time, your cash flow, and understanding how everything works, the cycle, how everything works for what you're doing. Like, okay, if this time frame, like from usually from March till about October, it's plenty of work. But after that it's kind of dependent on stuff because you know getting cooler, it's getting this, it's getting financing and all that kind of stuff. So you just wanna make sure that you're looking at the cycles of what's happening and being able to maintain your your your your footing. speaker-0: What was the first project that you had or opportunity that said, Whoo, we're really doing this? Or, you know, maybe this is for me. speaker-1: You're gonna laugh at me, but I'm gonna say our first project and ⁓ for FNF, which which was Gold's ⁓ plastic surgery office. It started as a three hundred and fifty thousand dollar contract that turned into eight hundred thousand that finished at a million. And it happened right in the mix of COVID. And we just kicked off. It was our first project. So ⁓ that put us through so many different changes that we was able to, you know, maintain and figure it out and keep it moving that I said, Okay, if I could do this, I do anything. I mean it's it's one of those things. speaker-0: I do think it's it it says a lot that you did that in the middle of COVID that shows that there's still work that has to be done even in downtrots of the the the economy and things are going on. There's still work out there to be had and made. So I do love that. Now speaker-1: It was scary 'cause, you know, we went from having plenty of everything and not worrying about and the pricing was, you know, a certain thing to the pricing and the material validity was just crazy for me 'cause I you know, I went from a dollar and twenty five cents for two by four to five dollars. Like ooh. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. Somebody gotta pay for it. speaker-1: Yeah. And I didn't want it to be me. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. So you had to rearrange those numbers. Like how did how did that work? speaker-1: Well, the good thing was that I was ⁓ because I've been in an industry long enough that I know that a good contract is always your best defense of everything that you're doing. And I had a good friend that was doing real estate ⁓ development and I used their lawyer to create my contract which said that anything that went over five percent inflation from when we started the project, the client would have to, you know, fill the gap. And that's the only thing that saved me. speaker-0: That is a gem right there. That's good Yes. That's good. Especially the times we're in because we don't know. I mean, fuel prices are off the chain right now, which means that material has to get to you some way. Yes. And those fuel chargers make a difference on that. So wow. That is good. That was good. I like that. What do the kids do? speaker-1: Yeah. If I hadn't had that in my contract, I don't know if I would have made it through that first year. speaker-0: Yeah. That's good. So would you say that's the project that stretched you and your capabilities or is there another one that you can speak on? speaker-1: That started the scratch, I would say the one that pushed me to the point that I felt like, okay, I'm gonna stop being scared. I can do this and I'm gonna move forward. ⁓ I did Chattahoochee Tech, I did a building for them, which was a I was surprised I won it, but hey. Got it. ⁓ and I would say that at the time I was partnering with someone to financially back that project for me because, you know, that was way bigger than what I anticipated. It ended up being ⁓ over a million. And I had a lot of materials, a lot of stuff that I was doing. And I was happy and joyful. I got this partner. They're gonna do the financing for me. I'm gonna be able to do this project. I had first time got my bun. So I was like, yes. And then the person that was financing decided that It wasn't beneficial for them to finance the project for me. And I was like, ⁓ no. But I had always said you always need to have a backup. And so I had a line of credit. And I was in the middle of getting it, getting it approved when this project came through. And it hit right when I needed it. Now, was it enough? Not quite, but strategically planning, ⁓ cash flow. you know, from learning from a previous class, I did a class with Microsoft for, you know, business understanding. It helped me understand cash flow. So once I sat down and went through, okay, I'm I'm gonna need this much for this and that, it made a big difference in getting through that project. And when I got through it without what I thought was gonna be the backing, I still made a fabulous job meeting the criteria and stuff of that nature, I said, you know what, I'm not gonna be scared anymore. I'm not gonna be scared anymore. I'm gonna go after what I wanna go after. speaker-0: You drop you dropped some gems. All that contract stuff, like again, a lot of times people just want to get into business and building trust, I think a lot of times we don't think of contracts as being a we just want to get the opportunity and saying, Okay, how do we protect ourselves? And I like a lot of us especially don't know how to protect ourselves. Like let's slow down. ⁓ we don't need an attorney. ⁓ I know I know somebody and that speaker-1: I got so much. speaker-0: attorney w that changed everything. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. I mean, if I didn't have an attorney on several things, I I feel like I I wouldn't have been able to one bond and two ⁓ keep moving the way I was moving. Cause you know, that I lost money, don't get me wrong, but I would have lost more. I could have put, you know, my household in jeopardy in reference to it. So it working with Red Trinity and working behind the scenes and seeing the stuff that I saw, I knew that contract. starts protection and and help you facilitate a lot. speaker-0: So what does it mean for a client that to be able to have your you have design build, you have general construction, you have construction management, all the things in one house. What does that mean for a client that you bring on? It speaker-1: Helps because you're able to do from start to finish. So you don't have to really go back and forth and say, okay, let me speak to the architect and see if this in the drawings, or let me talk to the contractor to see if it's capable of doing it. It's it's a one-stop shop where you can say, okay, this is how we can go about it to meet your goals and your your aspirations in reference to this project. Because each one of us does different things. Like With the design, the design provides us with guidance as to what it is that they're looking to receive. The construction piece basically builds out that design to meet the criteria that the client is looking for. And with construction management, the management helps build the brand and the feel and the look for what they're trying to attain. speaker-0: Now, what advice would you give to a small business that is struggling to get these go from these small opportunities to larger contracts? speaker-1: Honestly, I think you need to stay with the smaller jobs, but also build on those and look at the bigger jobs as a smaller component. What I've learned and what I've seen is that if it's a bigger job, you still break it up like in like smaller pieces and look at it as okay, I'm building into it. So say for instance I'm doing like twenty thousand square foot. I can say, okay, I gotta do this portion first. So I'll look at that portion as a smaller component of the bigger piece. Rather than thinking that, okay, I can't do it because it's too much. I think of it in small chunks and build into it. And that that change how you look at it and how you approach it, and it makes it easier to feel comfortable with moving into a bigger space. At least for me it was. speaker-0: Awesome, awesome. Yeah, 'cause I think I d as you say and keeping smaller business as a part of it is a big most people don't think about the fact that those larger projects mean the your payday is a little further out. So having to sustain multiple projects at one time as well as ⁓ how do you basically fund the system because you gotta maintain those bills that come every single month to Those people that gotta get paid every single month to that great payday that's at the end for those larger projects. So being able to balance both. How do you go about ⁓ contractors and and smaller business to be make sure you're vetting them to be quality, to make sure that they can h uphold your project? speaker-1: it's it's threefold because a lot of it is I I meet a lot of my subs. So I spend time with a lot of my subs, even when they're doing the work. I go out in the field and I talk to them. I get a feel for who they are, their people, I get to know them. I try to treat this as a family. It's just different elements of the family, but I try to treat it as a family. And ⁓ with the smaller contractors, Sometimes it the deals are a little different than my bigger contractors because they can't maintain 60 day billing. But if they do good quality work, I try to set up where I'll provide the materials. They provide the labor. We we come up with something that works. And then we I teach them how to build into having the funds and set aside to do those materials. Like, you know, create them, help them create. ⁓ a material line with Home Depot, Lowe's or other material suppliers so that they don't have to be dependent on I gotta go Home Depot right now and pay this, where they have a line with capital, they have a line with LW, they have a line with different suppliers so that they have a 30 day before they have to pay it rather than right now I gotta pay it right now. So it's it's it's more of a de we all work together. To a common goal. speaker-0: of that. So you have helped you spent decades helping ⁓ smaller companies be able to get bid opportunities as well as with their proposals. What is your advice for people that are looking to I just want to apply to everything to being very strategic about the projects that they go after. speaker-1: Also I think you need to keep a mix. I don't think you need to go after everything because sometimes going after everything puts you into a bind that you you get into something that you don't understand and you lose money or you didn't put enough money in it. I think you need to create a scenario where you can't you the majority of it you feel comfortable with and you can handle it. And so you approach it that way or you partner with someone that that's their their cup of tea. until you can get a handle on how to do it yourself. That's what I've done. speaker-0: Yeah. I love that you said partner, 'cause a lot of times we we think we gotta figure it out, do it ourselves. And sometimes a good joint venture could help save or actually give you the opportunity. So that's awesome. Now I notice you hold quite a few certifications. Quite a few. I want you I want you for one, I want you to list them all. One, two, I want you to tell me what advantage has it given you and access it's giving you to be able to hold those certifications and get opportunities. speaker-1: I d I have D B E which ⁓ DOT really push a lot with minority ⁓ ownership and everything and that helped me fill in a lot of gaps with finances and stuff like that with partnering with different companies and giving me the opportunity to be, I guess, viable to other comp bigger companies so that I can learn the items that I wanna learn so I can do it on myself later. So that's been tremendous help for me, ⁓ with doing that. And I learned that from, you know, being in the different like class with Morehouse. Morehouse had a business class I did with one of the pe one of ⁓ tr phenomenal black lady that helped us out tremendously. And she was teaching us that use what you have and and utilize it to the best of your ability to not only do the work, but learn Other work so that when it's your turn, you're ready. speaker-0: Your other certifications? speaker-1: I have City of Atlanta, which is SBE, which is small business enterprise. I have FBE, which is female business enterprise. I have MB I think wait. Yes, SBE. Gotta remember mom. It's not that many, but I mean ⁓ speaker-0: You so getting out. speaker-1: With City Atlanta that helps out tremendously because they have that program, the local small business enterprise, which helps out a lot because it sends me a lot of work ⁓ my way in reference to what's coming out, what's bidding, what's doing this, what's doing that, and who's doing what. And they have a lot of ⁓ programs for J V ⁓ opportunities, which I went to a lot of their classes in reference to, which helped out expand. ⁓ understanding of what's needed to be sitting at the table to be a primary J J V person. So ⁓ I guess it's just exposure really helps. speaker-0: Awesome. What is something that you learned actively working as a general contractor that you did not learn in school? speaker-1: Too much. ⁓ I would say time management, I would say customer orientation, I would say ⁓ being able to problem solve, and at the at the end of the day, experience is gonna teach you a lot that you can't learn in school. I mean, it helps build and have the foundation, but experience makes a big difference with it. speaker-0: Yeah. You're building a black woman owned general contracting company in a space where not many people look like you. Tell me what your experience has been. speaker-1: It's been interesting. ⁓ I try not to dwell on that as much. I try to think of it as this is a opportunity that I'm going after. I, you know, I want to put my best foot forward and I I wanna make sure that anyone that come after me can. So I try to strategize in a way that is beneficial for everyone as a whole. Like The client is happy with what I'm providing. I'm happy with what what I'm providing. And it helps everyone else who wants to come behind. You know? The hardest part is making sure that you don't make it harder for others to come behind you. And that you don't make it where it's isolated. Like, I don't want to go into a room and say, hey, Hi, hears me, I'm black, I'm only one in this room. You should, you know, listen to me. I want to go into the room and be a subject matter expert. I want to be the one that can answer the questions, can can follow through, can do the work and make it capable for everyone else that's coming behind. So it don't seem like, you know, I'm at a disadvantage. Actually, I'm an advantage as being a part of this. speaker-0: that. ⁓ I love that. Part of our mission and our central focus here at the Commercial Builders Network is rebuilding trust. Tell me what is something that we need to, I guess, hold on to to rebuild trust in our community and in this industry. speaker-1: At the end of the day, it's the quality of work that you provide and standing behind what you do. ⁓ no pointing fingers, no no no saying, ⁓ I c I wasn't capable, I shouldn't have done this. It's just being ⁓ accountable for everything that you do. At the end of the day, it's you who said and signed the contract and said, I can do the work, and it's you that should show that you're capable and you've done the work. And it speaks for itself. speaker-0: When it comes to you saying I don't want to make it harder for the next person behind me, you're talking to little you. What would you say to little you to get you to where you are today? speaker-1: I would say no. Don't be afraid to ask the questions. Don't be afraid to partner. I I took me longer to partner because I wanted to do it myself so much. And that, you know, I missed out on better opportunities if I had to just, you know, been able to say, Hey, I don't know this. I don't understand this. Can you show me? Can you guide me? Can you provide that nugget of how did you get from here to here? You know. Maybe I w you know, it would have been a lot easier and a lot smoother. But now I'm like, okay, I don't have a problem asking a dumb question. I don't have a problem saying, hey, I see you done X, Y, and Z. I know we're in the same space, but hey, we you know, this is my first time seeing you. I'm not taking anything from you. Let's talk about this. Let's let's let's let's work together. Let's let's help everyone. Let's be apart. speaker-0: Yeah. I love that. I'm not taking anything from you. Hey, what's yours was yours and what's mine is mine. But I think if more of us had that mentality of what's for me is for me and we can share information, we can join we're a community, you know, I think that we would go a lot further. ⁓ speaker-1: do. I know I for me it's it's been hard because I can be I have been in rooms where we do the same type of work, but that was my first time seeing them. And as soon as they hear I do what they do, they wouldn't talk to me. Mm-hmm. And it was just like, whoa. You know, I I I'm not trying to take anything from you. I really, you know, at the end of the day we're going after the same thing. If you choose, you know, to to talk to me and discuss it, we could work on this together. It ain't have to be a s a you know, isolated case. Yeah. and I feel like cause I have girls. I have four girls. And I had a phenomenal ment mentor that helped me. And if I hadn't had that mentor, I don't think I would have got as far as I gotten. I w I don't think I would have been able to move in the way I've moved. And That's why I tell my girls every time I help other people so that it's in the it's it's out there so that they can be helped by someone else. The people that help me is not the ones that actually I help. You know, pass it on. Be a be a part of the solution, you know, and not the problem. speaker-0: Awesome. Do you have an ask at all for your business? What you're looking for? speaker-1: Or do I have what? speaker-0: And ask. speaker-1: ⁓ I don't know. I mean I it so far things have been really nice for me because you know I push and I pulled and I work toward whatever I need to and a lot of the work that I received has been word of mouth from us, you know, doing what we say we're gonna do. So the only acts I can say is try us. We we we can help. We can if we can help and we can be a part, we're there. speaker-0: And how do they get in contact with you? speaker-1: ⁓ we have our website, which is www dot lfgenalconstruction dot com. And our office number is six seven eight seven ⁓ five nine six nine two. speaker-0: So but thank you so much for your time. I appreciate you. speaker-1: ⁓ Thank you.