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The Battle of the Sexes · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: It's just two of us, and that's great because I'll
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: be playing the role of Billy Junie Kink and Chuck's
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: going to play the role of male show Bennis Pig
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Bobby and produce. Oh man, take it, Chuck. Hey.
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: Before we get going on this one, I have a
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: quick shout out and this is coming out a couple
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: of days after I did this because we're cutting it
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: so close because of our week off last week. But
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: that makes me happy because I was asked a friend
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: of mine's son. His name is Royce. He is a student,
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: a junior at Midtown High School here in Atlanta, and
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: he has a teacher, Miss Smolcoe, who is a long
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: time Stuff you Should Know listener. And when Royce told
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: Miss smokeol like, Hey, I know that guy. We're buddies.
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: We got hogs games together, kind of flipped out and
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: was like, oh my god, I wonder if, like, would
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: he be interested in helping us out with our podcast program?
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Oh cool?
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: And they set it up via email and I spent
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: yesterday which was in our World Monday at Midtown High
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: School addressing the junior class about two hundred kids, and
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: I gotta say, man, it was an incredible experience. The
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: students were into it. They were engaged, they had great questions,
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: they had great answers, they were you know, a lot
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: of it was sharing, you know, what they're doing with
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: this podcast project, which is based off of like stuff
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: you should know style stuff, which was super cool, like
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: these real philosophical questions that they're digging into and taking
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: opposite sides and debating, and they were seeking advice and
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: it was just it was an incredible experience. And I
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: just I left like on a real high about gen
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: Z and like where our future is headed. And it
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: was just awesome.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: Great. So the broad strokes are gen Z got Chuck
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: high yesterday.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they got me super high. It was really cool.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: They were all just amazing kids, and miss Smolco is wonderful.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: And the other teacher, I think his name was Alex,
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: I can't remember his last name, but he was super nice.
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: And they're just like, hats off to these teachers. What's
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: going on in the at least at Midtown High School
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: is amazing, And I just left feeling great. That was awesome.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: I think Royce is getting in a.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: You know, Royce wasn't even there. He's does like a
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: late arrival thing because of like work study or something,
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: and so I was like, dude. I text him, was
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: like where were you? And he explained the whole deal
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: like that he's not even allowed in school till later.
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: So it was just one of those things. But everyone
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: was super nice and it was just it was was
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: so cool to see how into it everybody was.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: That's awesome.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: Well way you go, Chuck, Oh, and real quick, there
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: were a couple of students I won't name them. I
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: have permission to name Royce because he's a pal, but
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: there were two legitimate, big time stuff you should know
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: listeners in the junior class that came up after and
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: said hello, and they were both like really really.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Nice, awesome shout out Thing one and thing two.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: That's right, way to.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: Go, Chuck. You were basically a teacher for that moment.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: I kind of felt that way. Maybe one day when
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: I retire, I'll just like go and teach for real.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: I'll let you borrow my tweet jacket with the swedelboat watches.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: That don't be dumb jacket. Wow, that's a big deal.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: You have to overlook all the stains on it, all. Right,
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: So we are talking about the Battle of the sexes today,
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: which I guess. I mean, this is a tough act
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: to follow after your story.
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: Frankly, No, this is a great fun sort of pop
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: culture history story and sports story. There was a movie
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: about it just a handful of years ago, starring Steve
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: Carell as Bobby Riggs and Emma Stone as Bill King,
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: where they portrayed the very famous tennis match between a
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: male chauveness pig and aging over the hill hustler tennis
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: star that you know, basically came out and said, you
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: know what, men are better at women than everything, and
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: an old me can beat a young champion and Billy
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: Jean King, and let's do it on national TV at
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: the Houston Astrodome in front of a ton of people.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's what happened the end, that's right. So
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: this was a really big deal. I mean it sounds
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: like just kind of light hearted, maybe a bit of
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: a joke. This actually still happens today, their battle of
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: the sexist tennis matches. Yeah, this was the first one
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: and it was a very big deal for everyone involved.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: On the one hand, you have Bobby Riggs, like you said,
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: over the hill. He was fifty five and he was
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: trying to right, he was trying to fi two weeks
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: he was, Oh, that's right, the IDEs of March are
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: coming up.
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: Oh boy, yeah, so over the hill, I get it, okay.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, although fifty five in nineteen seventy three was a
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: lot different than fifty five now right.
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I don't look like Bobby Riggs.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: But he was over the hill, not just necessarily because
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: of his age. He just been so far out of
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: tennis for so long. He was an attention hound and
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: he wanted to get back in the spotlight. So for
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: him this was a gambit. It was a lot of
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: work to do it, but it was something he was
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: trying to do. On the other side was Billy Jing King,
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: who he took this very seriously because to her this
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: was symbolic of women's rights, which she was a tireless
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: fighter for, not just before this but after for essentially
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: your whole life still today.
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she's great. Love Billy Jing King.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: She's a hero.
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: Bobby Riggs. We'll talk about him in depth We're not
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: going to make excuses for the guy. But I will
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: say Billy Jinking remained very good friends with him and
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: never came out and said like you know, I mean,
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: when they were going at it, she was kind of
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: playing him up as a male Chownes pig, which he was,
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: but she would end up saying like Bobby Riggs was
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: a man of his time and sort of a victim
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: of being a man of his time, so she kind
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: of went easy on him. I'm not sure I'm going
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: to go so easy on him.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: Well, I saw, I saw in places that there's it's
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: questionable whether he actually like even believed most of the
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: stuff he was saying that all again, all this was
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: a gambit. He figured out a really good way to yeah,
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: get media attention was to just be like the most
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: loudmouthed Chauvenes's pig, just saying the most offensive stuff and
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: becoming loathsome to women. That this would this would just
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: generate more buzz and more hype for what he was
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: trying to do, which I mean, just doing that is
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: a jerk move, but it's it's it's not set in
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: stone that he was someone who actually harbored these feelings personally,
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: So you got to bear that in mind while we're
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: telling this, because a lot of people realized that, like
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: anti feminists, a lot of men don't realize it, and
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: a lot of feminists don't realize it. They took it
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: everything he was doing very seriously, but like you said,
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: Billy Jing King didn't, which is a huge signal right there.
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I just hit this just hit my brain.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: If I'm going to go hard on Bobby Rigs, then
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: I also need to do the same to Andy Kaufman
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: and his whole wrestling stick, which I think is one
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: of the great funny kind of comedy bits. But it
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: was kind of the same thing, like playing a role
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: to get women riled up to get attention.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: Well, really, if we learned anything from this battle of
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: the sexist tennis matches, if you're gonna go hard on
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: Bobby Riggs, you need to go hard on Billy Jing King.
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: Right. Should we go back to the early seventies and
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: set the stage, Yes, all right. Early nineteen seventies was
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: it was a pretty volatile time. It was a big
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: time for women to are kind of standing up for
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: real and saying like, hey, we want attention. We want rights.
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: We want the same rights as men.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: Roe v.
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: Wade was decided in seventy three. The Equal Rights Amendment
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: was all over the news, and the case of sports,
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: certainly nineteen seventy two with Title nine of the Education
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: Amendments Act that required schools to offer girls and women
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: the opportunities to basically get equal funding and participate equally
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: in athletics as boys and men. So it was a
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: It was a big time for women's advocacy and feminism
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: and women's rights between like nineteen and you know, certainly
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: before that, but definitely between nineteen seventy and like nineteen
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: seventy five.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just as an aside, we did, if I may
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: say so, a pretty good episode on the Equal Rights
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: Amendment in twenty twenty one called why is the Era
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: still not ratified?
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, which is true.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So, yeah, it was a big time. There was
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: a lot of momentum for women's lib feminism. It was
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: also a big time for tennis, which was becoming really,
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: really popular, especially in the United States. The number of
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: Americans who played tennis tripled from nineteen seventy to nineteen
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: seventy four. And one of the reasons why is because
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: the tennis world started holding opens. I never knew this before,
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: but the US opened the Australian Open. The reason they're
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: called opens because they're open to all players. You can
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: be an amateur, you can be a pro, and you
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: can compete in this These tournaments an open tournament that
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: was brand new. I think Wimbledon was the first one
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: to start it, I think in nineteen sixty eight. So
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: a lot of really freaky, exciting stuff's going on in the.
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: World, that's right. Billy Jean King was and we should
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: also point out that, you know, as far as wage disparity,
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: in nineteen sixty eight, if you were a professional tennis player,
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: you earned two to three times as much as a woman.
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: And when the sport grew, that gap actually grew, it
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: didn't get more narrow, which was pretty startling at the time.
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: But Billy Jean King was born in nineteen forty three,
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: and by the time this event rolled around, she was huge.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: She had won ten Grand Slam titles by seventy three.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: She was a number one ranked tennis player six different
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: times in nineteen seventy or by nineteen seventy three was
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: the nineteen seventy two Sports Illustrated Sportsperson of the Year,
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: and like you said, was a real feminist activist kind
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: of from the jump. I think there was a story
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: from when she was a kid, when she was eleven
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: or twelve, a junior player, she was not allowed to
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: be in a photo like a tournament photo because she
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: wasn't wearing the tennis skirt. She was wearing shorts, and
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: they said, you can't be in this picture. And immediately
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: little twelve year old Billy Jean King was like, what
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: the hell.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she was like, these are sports. They said, that doesn't.
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: Count, right, that's not a thing yet.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: So yeah. And one thing about Billy Jean King from
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: a bunch of stuff I read and saw about hers,
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: that like she's she was tireless and still it. She's
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: a tireless activist for women's rights, like she did ever
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: slow down. And when you kind of learn about all
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: the side stuff she did to promote women in tennis
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: and women's rights in general, Like on top of that,
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: bear in mind she's one of the top tennis players
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: in the world by dominating in tennis, so that takes
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: a lot of practice, a lot of dedication, and she's
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: doing all this other stuff at the same time. So
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: she's like basically the definition of tireless.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and she was doing this in the nineteen sixties
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: because all those accomplishments I mentioned was by seventy three.
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: But in nineteen sixty six she was the number one
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: women's tennis player in the world and she was making
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: one hundred dollars a week as a playground instructor at
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: Los Angeles State College. So the money the athletes were
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: making was not anything like it is today, and it
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: was way, way worse for women. I think first Open
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: you mentioned at Wimbledon in sixty eight, she won that
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: tournament and won seven hundred and fifty pounds. Rod Labor,
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: the men's champion, won two thousand pounds, and she was
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: like in sixty eight, she was like, this is totally unfair.
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: What's going on?
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and money comes up a lot. It was. The
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: reason why is it's an easy shorthand to basically point
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: out women's lesser treatment compared to men. It's also something
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: that most people can just kind of wrap their minds around, like, yeah,
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: seven hundred and fifty pounds is a lot less than
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: two thousand pounds, but they're both the champions. That doesn't
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: make any sense. So money is a big focus throughout this,
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: but it's not just because everybody wants money, you know.
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. So in nineteen seventy, Billy Jean King was like,
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: we need to do something sort of official and sort
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: of big here. So she looked to a woman named
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: Gladys Heldman, who was the founder of World Tennis magazine.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: She was a very big prominent figure. You're in the
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: tennis world overall, obviously because of World Tennis, and also
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: because she was at the time the mother of a
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: very high ranked player named Julie Heldman. That was her daughter.
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: So she was a good person to go to. And
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: they said, here's what we can do to make a splash.
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: There's a tennis tournament coming up called the Pacific Southwest
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: Open in LA where they're paying The prize purse for
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: the men's champion is twelve five hundred, the purse for
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: the women's champion is fifteen hundred dollars, which I mean,
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: looking back at the Wimbledon disparity, that wasn't too bad
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: compared to this. Yeah, and this was even after that,
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: and they said, why don't we boycott this tournament? And
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: Gladys Heldman said, you know what, why don't we start
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: our own tournament that competes with this tournament, And everyone
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: went ooh, this sounds exciting.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, that was a huge step beyond what
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: they were originally thinking of. And so the US Tennis
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: Association at the time they were called the US Lawn
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: Tennis Association also to They were like, hey, go ahead
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: and try that, but we are going to suspend you.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: We might ban you from tournament tournament play, We're going
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: to erase your rankings, like it's going to be a
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: bad jam if you guys go off and form your
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: own tournament. And that it took a lot of bravery
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: because not all women tennis players signed on for this.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: In fact, only nine, including Billy Jeane King, said you
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: know what, we're going to go do this anyway, and
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: so they signed contracts with Heldman, and so they became
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: pros on this other tour, which protected them from getting
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: punished on the USLTA tour, and they started their own championship,
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: which eventually was I think supported and sponsored by Virginia
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: Slims Cigarettes.
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, and we should mention that contract was
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: for a dollar each so they they clearly were doing
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: this to make a statement and not to make a
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: ton of money, right, But Philip Morris, Yeah, they stepped
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: in because they there was a recent federal ban on
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: advertising on TV and radio for cigarettes, and so they said,
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: we got to get our name out there somewhere. So
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: let's call this the you know, we've got these Virginia
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: Slims with its quasi feminist message. You've come a long way, baby.
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: That was our ad slogan for a long.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: Time, long time.
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: And tennis, you know, the Original Nine is what they
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: were called, those tennis players that went along or the
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: eight that went along with Billy jen King and said
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: they're like, yeah, I mean, we're athletes. It's a little
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: weird to have a cigarette sponsor, but we need a sponsor,
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: so we'll take it. And that tournament went over really well,
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: and it was so successful that they said, hey, why
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: don't we start our own circuit, and they had the
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: Virginia Slim Circuit. There were eight more tournaments that they
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: sponsored and the original nine. You know, they initially did
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: follow through with their threat to like ban them. The USLTA, Yeah,
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: the USLTA at the time, but they said, oh, actually
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: they're doing so well over there, We're in trouble now,
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: so we need to join forces. And they gave up
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: and they merged with the Virginia Slim Events.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm not usually one to defend tobacco producers,
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: but I saw a PBS I think American Master's clip
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: that was interviewing some of the original nine and they
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: were like, Virginia Slims showed up, like they knew how
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: to market, they knew how to get buzz. They put
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: a ton of money behind advertising and like they this
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: was not like a just a whatever thing to them.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: They were actually a really great sponsor for this. So yeah,
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: they yes, these nine women, and I think eventually more joined.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: They were like, if you won't include us, we're just
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: gonna go create our own thing. Like they worked at
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: it like that and it actually paid off in aces.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah for sure. Hey you want to take.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: A break, Hey, yeah.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: All right, we'll be back right after this. All right,
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: So where we left off, the original nine went off
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: and formed their own Virginia Slim circuit. They were, you know,
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: endangered the USLTA such that they partnered with them eventually,
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: but money started flowing in a little bit. Nineteen seventy one,
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: Billy Jean King was the first female athlete of any
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: sport at all to make more than one hundred thousand dollars,
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: a lot of money, and nineteen seventy one dollars still
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: a lot less than her peers on the male side
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: of the equation. And so she was still, you know,
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: banging that drum. She wasn't like, all right, our work
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: is done. And in nineteen seventy three, before Wimbledon that year,
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: she got together in London where Wimledon is in a
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: hotel room with sixty three I guess it was probably
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: a large meeting room, Yeah, sixty three other women tennis players,
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: and they said, all right, we're doing this today. We're
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: going to form the WTA, the Women's Tennis Association. We're
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: gonna have an actual union in place where we can,
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: you know, do what unions do and stick up for ourselves.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: Yes, they threatened to boycott, like pretty much immediately after
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: they formed the WTA. They said that they were going
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: to boycott the US Open if we don't get equal
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: prize money for women and men. And I believe that
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: was successful. They got the US Open to agree and
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: it was this is like things are moving along for
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: women's equality in tennis at this time. Right, So it's
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: a huge focus of conversation with tennis.
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it was all over the media everywhere
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: you looked. It was about sort of equal pay, equal rights.
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: And that was in the regular world, and all of
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: a sudden it was now like in the sports world
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: in a big way.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: Well, put.
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: So now we can talk a little bit about our
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: our I'm gonna put it in scare quotes, our villain,
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: mister Bobby Riggs, who was I'll tell you what man
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: I mean, if you it is very Andy kaufmanesque. If
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: you watch interviews with this guy. If he's nothing, he
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: is entertaining.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: For sure. He was a true great tennis player at
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: one time, shortly after World War Two. I think he
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: was the number one men's player in nineteen forty six
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: and nineteen forty seven, and not just from like December
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: to January like both of those years.
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So he had, you know, the goods to back
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: up like this. It wasn't just some dude who had
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: a tennis racket. But after the late forties, he essentially
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: like left the tour and he started hustling and taking
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: bets from essentially anybody who who would play him in
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: tennis pool. I think you saw a sixty minutes clip
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: where he was gambling on throwing cards into a waste basket,
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: like he would bet on anything. There was a quote
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: on that sixty minutes clip where he said he likes
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: to play for big money. If he can't play for
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: big money, he'll play for small money. If I can't
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: play for small money, I won't get out of bed
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: that day. Like that's just what that guy did. He gambled,
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: he hustled. Andy was known as a loud mouth too,
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: but he also seems to be fairly loved. Essentially, he
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: was like one of those people that you just kind
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: of you couldn't help, but like even though yeah he
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: was allowed mouth and trying to get you to bet
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: some money.
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he was a troll. Livia called him a pre
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: internet troll, and that's exactly what he was. It seemed
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: like a bit of an act and a bit of
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: a stick to get attention. Like we said, but he
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: would say things, you know, a woman's place is in
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: the kitchen, in the bedroom, and not necessarily in that order.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: Or women played twenty five percent as good as men,
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: so they should get twenty five percent of the money
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: men get. I was reading I think it was a
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: oh was it Esquire or something, an article about him,
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: and the whole idea of playing Billy Jean King was
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: birth when I think a reporter was just talking to
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: him about you know, can men beat women? Or who
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: could beat Billy Jean King and tennis and he said,
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: I think any guy in the top one hundred could
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: beat Billy Jean King. And he went, in fact, I
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: think I could beat her. And that's sort of when
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: he seemed to hatch this idea for publicity and money.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was like, oh, but there's good.
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: Action there, Yeah, totally he so.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Yes, so like he said these things. Actually at least
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: one of those quotes is from one of his autobiographies. Yeah, so,
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: like he wrote the stuff down. This wasn't just stuff
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: he started saying. When he decided to play Billy Jean King.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: He was already known as a male chauvinist. But yes,
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: he was an attention hound and this was again a
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: way that he figured out how to do this. So
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: he started publicly challenging Billy Jane King. He's like in
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: his mid fifties. She's in her late twenties prime, and
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: she's like, now that's okay, I'm too busy. And again,
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: remember like she was genuinely tireless organizing the Virginia Slim
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: Circuit and like creating the Women's Tennis Association, all the
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: while winning all of these championships in Grand slams. So
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: she had a legitimate excuse like I'm too busy. The
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: thing is, there was also like a case you could
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: make that she saw very clearly like I don't know
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: if I have that much to gain by playing this,
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: and I have a lot to lose for the women's movement.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: I could easily set it back if I lose. So
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: there was she had good reason to kind of avoid
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: this as long as she could.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's sort of a lose lose proposition for her.
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: If she beats him, everyone's like, well, of course she
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: beat this old man, right, and that's how he probably
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: would have played it up as well. We'll see what happened.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: But and if she loses that, of course, like looks
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: terrible to be beaten by the old man. So she
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: was wise to avoid it, I think. But there was
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: another woman In fact, she was the I think she
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: was the number one player in the world women's player
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy three named Margaret Court and Ozzy and
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: she was like she wasn't super active in the politics
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: of women's sports, and she was like, yeah, sure, I'll
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: play him. She stepped right up and in May of
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: nineteen seventy three, this was in San Diego or outside
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: San Diego. They played a three set match where ten
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: thousand dollars and about ten million people a lot of
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: put people tuned into the first one on CBS. Thirty
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: five hundred people were there live and he beat her.
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: He beat her six two six' one by PLAYING i
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: want to say a certain, thing BUT i. Can't he
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: was playing like a. Punk oh, Yeah he's playing junk
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: shots and like drop, shots and he wasn't playing like
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: sort of real. Tennis he was playing sort of joke.
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: Tennis and when you're playing against a player that can hit,
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: aggressive strong shots and you're just plunking him over the,
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: net like it's gonna you can't play tennis that way
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: if you're a real, player and it threw her off her.
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: Game she got in his. HEAD i think the moment
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: was a little too big for. HER i don't think
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: she realized how much attention there was going to, be
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: and she ended up getting beat pretty.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Badly, yeah he got in her, head, Right. Yeah so,
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: yes it's called The Mother's day massacre because it was
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: held On Mother's, day AND i mean it was really.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Bad but there's a point THAT i want you to
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: hang on to for. Later as much of a punk
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: as he, played he didn't play actual serious. Tennis he's
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: playing joky tennis to. Win he took that match very.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: Seriously he trained for months ahead of. Time he was
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: playing or training like ten to twelve hours a day every.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: Day he really, trained and by the time he was
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: by the time the game came, around he knew he
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: was going to Beat Margaret. Court so just keep that
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: in mind how hard he trained for.
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: That. Okay, Yeah and also we should point out like
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: at the very beginning of that, match to open it,
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: up he presented her with a bouquet of roses and
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: she curtsied back to, him And Billy Jin king is
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: watching this just like you, know furious, inside like she's, like,
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: oh he's, Playing and she in fact said later that
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: she played right into his. Hands there AND i would
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: have grabbed him and kissed. Him if he gets, DIRTY
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: i can get tough. Too so she hated the fact
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: That Margaret court went out there and sort of curtsied
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: to him and took the roses and then lost on NATIONAL,
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: TV i guess INTERNATIONAL. Tv and so she was, like all,
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: right you know What i'm gonna do. It i'm gonna
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: step up And i'm gonna Play Bobby. Riggs it's my.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: Turn, yeah so she agreed to do this and it
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: became immediately, BUZZWORTHY i guess is what you would call
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: it if you're into that kind of.
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: Thing that's. Right the liver versus the lobber is how
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: they dubbed.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: It, Yeah, so LIKE i, said it's immediately generating. Buzz
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: Bobby riggs starts giving television interviews to any camera that
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: will stand still long, enough and he's a magnet for
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: that kind of stuff because again he's a loud. Mouth
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: he's saying horrible things about. Women he's accepting like the
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: male chauvinus pig, moniker like With pride or. Whatever, yeah
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: and he's just like one of, those like he would
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: talk a mile a. Minute he had so much, energy
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: he was just a little a little kind of squirrely,
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: guy kind.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: Of, like, Yeah Richard.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: Simmons did you ever See Richard simmons when he would
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: go On? Letterman oh, yeah, Okay so it's great the
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: way That letterman kind of Regarded Richard simmons, affectionately but
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: also like this guy's he's moving around a. Lot. Yeah
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: he was like, that but amped up on like speed.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: Essentially so he was a magnet for cameras and he
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: was giving interviews all over the.
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: Place, yeah and he was also you, know he's adding
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: hype for the event obviously by saying things, like you,
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: know she's a, woman they don't have the emotional, stability she'll.
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: Choke he added more. Stakes he said that he would
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: jump from The London bridge And arizona or The Pasadena
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: bridge if he. Lost and you, know he was all
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: over the. Place he was on the cover Of time
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: magazine that year In. September it was a caricature of
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: him wearing a male chaubeness badge and then there was
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: a picture of a pig and a banner that said
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: The Happy. Hustler so it was all working exactly as he.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: Planned But Billy Jean, king like if he took that
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: first match. Seriously he didn't take this one as, seriously
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: And billy Jen king was really taking it.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: Seriously, Yeah i'm not sure if he was just you,
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: know resting on his laurels because of how badly he
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Beat Margaret court that he just assumed that that was
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: going to translate into Playing Billy Jean. King but he
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: did not train nearly as much as he did For
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: billy For Margaret. Court, essentially he was out partying in
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: the lead up to all of. This he was also
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: really really getting more and more offensive as things went.
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: On, Right, oh you're gonna leave this one for.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Me.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah one of the things he did was he showed
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: up to practice one day with the cameras there with
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: holes cut out in his shirt so his nipples could,
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: show and he said That Billy Jean king would look
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: better in. This and she came out in public and
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: she was, like this guy is a, creep which, was you,
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: know about as tough as you could be in language back. Then,
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah and he was publicly.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: And it was at a press conference with them, together
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: and he, said, well you should take that back and she, said,
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: nope creep Stands and she said LATER i saw in
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: an interview she said, that, like she didn't take him,
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: seriously but she knew that there were men out there
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: that took him seriously and that he had crossed the,
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: line and she needed to make sure that that was.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: Demonstrated that she was not okay with that.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: One, YEAH i think she kind of played it all just.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: Right it was really pretty savvy stuff on ther, end for.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: Sure SO i, say we take is this our second? Break?
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah second?
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: Break all, Right so the gun is going to go
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: off when we come, back.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Stop.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: OFF i wonder how many people are, like what is
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: he talking about when he keeps saying the gun is
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: going to go? Off Whenever act three comes, Around, WELL
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: i would, say study your checkof, friend.
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: That's, right and not your checkoff. Friend your checkoff come a, friend.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Right not the friend that you're, LIKE i gotta hang
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: out with him and then you do you real. Quick
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: you check him off your to do. List not that.
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: Guy, yeah we all have checkof.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: Friends, Yeah i'm Sure i'm a lot of people's check Off.
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: No, no, no, no. No all, Right so where are
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: we are we? At match? Time, basically which was turned
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: into a complete circus by the, Way.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Yes this Is september, twentieth nineteen seventy. Three is that
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: The Houston. Astrodome, man thirty thousand people showed up in
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: person to see. THIS i saw all over the, place Including,
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: britannica that ninety million people watched it around the. World that's.
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: YEAH i Think olivia had fifty million. People BUT i
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: watched an interview with her WITH i mean serious journalist it.
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: Was it Was Kathy lee And hoda and they said ninety,
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: million and they were just drunk on white wine at
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: nine in the morning or, Whatever SO i trust.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: Them, man that was a weird, time wasn't it?
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: That it was a very weird. TIME i did want
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: to point out THAT i looked. UP i was, like,
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: well how many people see a tennis tournament at like
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: The Grandes stage And Center court At wimbledon is about
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: fifteen thousand, People so this was double.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: That. Wow. Yeah plus it was in the beautiful New,
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: astrodome so.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah so.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: Great so the odds were very much in favor On Bobby.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: Riggs the odds were six to one That riggs would.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: Win and this was like the whole thing was kind
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: of presented in the media as like The battle of
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: the sexiest, thing the man versus, woman and every juvenile
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: joke or you, know quip or whatever you could make
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: out of. That that is how the whole thing was being.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Promoted that's how it was being played up in the.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Media it was not like this is a very serious
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: thing that they set women's women's rights back or move them.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: Forward then of that was was in. There it was
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: all just this almost tongue in cheek approach to. It
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: and that's how the whole, thing if you were a,
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: viewer that's what you were kind of.
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: Shown, yeah for, Sure and that's a good thing to point.
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: Out there Was hollywood was. Involved there were a lot
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: of actors and singers and stuff that were in a
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: celebrity tournament. Beforehand they were really milking. It they when
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: they came in The university Of houston band performed the Song,
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: conquest which is an a them from the nineteen forty
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: seven Movie captain From. Castile that's When Bobby riggs came.
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: In they Played Helen REDDY'S I Am. Woman When Billy
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: Jean king came, In lyvia pointed out That John, Wayne
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: Bill cosby AND Oj simpson were in, attendance AND i
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: had probably thirteen different comments or jokes written out for,
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: that But i'm just going to let that trio stand
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: without comment.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: Dans on its.
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: Own, YEAH i think.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: So SO abc made a fat one point two million
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: dollars off of ads for this. Match, Yeah astrodome got
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: about half that and people paying admission. Price. Yeah and
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: the so with The Margaret Court Mother's Day massacre game
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: that was played under women's, rules in that there were three.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: Sets that's how women's tennis matches are played three. Sets
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: men's tennis matches are played five. Sets Billy Jean king was, like,
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: no we're going to play five sets best of five,
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: essentially so there were, five which was. Smart, yeah, yeah for.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Sure She. Yes another thing that you'll see that's happened
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: recently is sometimes so a woman's court might be smaller
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: than the man's, court which makes it harder for the
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: man to land a ball in.
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: Bounds like in A battle of the sexist.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: Match, yes thank, you there was nothing like. That this
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: was like a men's match That Billy Jean king was playing.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: Against Bobby.
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: Riggs oh, yeah well she was, LIKE i got this
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: fifty five year old, guy like he wants the three
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: set match so we're going to go five Because i'm
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: in great, shape. Right Bobby riggs enters on a carriage
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: pulled by women that are outfitted As bobby's bosom. Buddies
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: how Did Billy Jing king come?
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: In she came in on basically a platform carried by
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: men in TOGAS i also saw As, egyptians Like egyptian.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: Servants they were shirtless, essentially and they were brawny. Dudes
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: so like mostly not her, idea but she was going
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: along with, it, right, yeah she. Was, Yeah well you
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: were saying that she was taking it, seriously and she,
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: was but she was also like willing to play along
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: with this, Too like she wasn't just some like stick
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: in the, mud you.
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: Know, yeah, totally.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: So just very. Appropriately Bobby riggs was sponsored by Sugar daddy, candy,
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: right and he Presented Billy Jean king with a two
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: foot long Sugar. Daddy remember Those they would just pull
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: the fillings right out of your head, Totally and So
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: king was, like, OH i have a gift for you.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: Too it was a piglet that she Named Bobby riggs
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: because he was a Male chauvenu's pig and don't worry
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: about the. Pig she coordinated with the Promoter Jerry, perenchio
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: very legendary, promoter that the pig would not be eaten or,
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: harmed it would go to live on a farm, afterward
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: and it.
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: Did that says everything you need to know About Billy Jean. Kings, yeah,
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: yeah she thought of everything she.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: Did she she crossed her t's and. Died oinks that's.
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: Right so of course it's nineteen seventy, three so you
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: want to get the best in the business at the
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: time to do the play by, Play so they got
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: none other Than Howard. Cosell, initially they had a tennis
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: promoter and anti feminist Named Jack kramer who was going
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: to Do they're going to do sort of a he
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: Versus she, commentary and he was going to be on,
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: rigside and one of the original Nine Rosie cassol's was
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: going to be On billy Jan king. Side But, kramer
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: and this also speaks To Billy Jing, king he was
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: one of the guys behind that original tournament that they
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: protested and wouldn't play in The Pacific Southwest open where they,
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: said oh, yeah well we're going to ban you. Then
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: so she was, like, hey this is all fun and
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: games and, everything but if that jerk is, Involved i'm
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: not even going to do. This so they Pulled kramer
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: off the off the.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: Broadcast, yeah and they didn't Have Rosie kassall speak To
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: And i'm really glad they didn't do. That THAT'S i,
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: mean it's a gimmick and it's, understandable but it would
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: have made the whole thing. Suck they brought In Gene,
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: scott who was the publisher Of Tennis, week and he
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: just gave commentary like it was a regular tennis, match
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: which is kind of what he wanted in this. One. Agreed,
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: SO i, mean Imagine Dennis miller And Dennis miller calling
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: a tennis. Match you don't want? That, yeah, WELL i
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: mean think about. It whose idea was it to put
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: him On monday night? Football on the one, hand it's.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: Brilliant on the other it's like, What, yeah that was.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: Weird but it was it lasted for years, Too it's
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: not like it was a couple of.
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: Games, yeah, no HE i think it was a full,
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: season wasn't.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: IT i think it was more than, that that was?
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: It, Yea, yeah that was.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Weird, Yeah so the game is on essentially that's that's
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: the point we've reached. Here that's.
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: Right So Bobby riggs takes a three two lead in
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: the first, set and later On Billy Jean king would, say,
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: LIKE i was in. TROUBLE i KNEW i was making some.
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: MISTAKES i was in my head a little, bit AND
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: i knew THAT i could not give this first set. Away,
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: basically like he needed to get that set for his psychological,
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: standing and so that first set was so so important for,
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: her so she knew that she had to win. It
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: she was down three to, two and she came back
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: and beat him and won that first set six to,
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: four which was a huge blow to his.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Psyche, yeah she said that she could tell that that
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: had gotten to him when they switched. Sides so she
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: also changed her playing. Style, normally she would be like
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: she'd want to win the point as quickly and efficiently as. Possible,
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: instead she started drawing volleys out and basically put the
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: ball in one corner and then put the ball in
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: the other. Corner so she had this old man running
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: back and forth chasing down these balls to purposefully tire them.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: OUT i, mean that's just so cool that people are
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: capable of doing. That you, know, LIKE i want the
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: ball to go ry, here So i'm going to go
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: right there with this, racket even though the ball's coming
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: at me at seventy miles an.
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: Hour, yeah for. Sure so she wore him. Out by the,
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: end he was talking about hand. Cramps the levity had
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: kind of lessened, because like you, said this fifty five
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: year old was an old old, man.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: Right so remember we were so, old, right not fifty
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: four fifty?
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: Five, Okay, OKAY i got a couple more.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: Weeks So Billy Jing king, won and she won like,
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: convincingly sixty four sixty, three sixty, three so remember best
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: out of. Five she beat him in three straight. Sets,
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: yeah and she got her one hundred thousand check from
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: no less Than George, foreman WHO i read had hoped
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: to Use Bobby riggs the pig to demonstrate his new
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: type of indoor, grill but was disappointed that he wasn't allowed.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: To oh, No and so this was it was just
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: an immediate. Splash remember this is a media. Spectacle everybody
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: knows about. This ninety million people are, watching so the
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: media just got right in on it again to let everybody.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: Know Billy Jean king won and let's celebrate her as
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: a pro tennis. Player and that's.
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: It that's. RIGHT i think we Know josh's coy voice by.
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: Now that's not at all how it was. Reported of,
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: course they kept reporting it sort of in the lowest
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: common denominator. Way THE ap said that, screaming delirious women's
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: livers lit up more brightly than the rocket shooting astrodome.
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: Scoreboard even my Beloved New York times Said king, collapsed
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: tears in her eyes and her husband's, arms adding, later
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: all of a, sudden she was a, champion a, woman
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: and a little girl all at the same.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: Time that one brings like my eyes water from that.
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: One, yeah that's.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: Tough that's so much worse than the astrodome, scoreboard, RIGHT i,
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: mean neither one are. Great, yeah that one is just
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: like they meant. That they were trying to like really
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: be poignant, there and it's just, like good, God.
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah they missed the.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: Mark the thing About Bobby riggs is he wasn't, like,
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: well you, know she obviously is some freak woman who
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: who beat. Me that's the only woman who could. Be
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: he did the. Opposite he accepted the defeat with dignity And. Grace,
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: yeah he saw that.
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: Coming he had a.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: Thing where he hopped over the net win or lose
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: after the end of every, match and he. Did he
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: hopped right over the net and went up to her
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: and he said confidentially to her that he underestimated. Her,
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah and then in the press conference he went on
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: to basically say the same, thing like she beat him very.
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: Clearly, yeah he said she was too strong for. Me
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: there have since been rumors that he threw the match
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: as a gambler with six to one odds, against that
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: he threw the match and bet against. Himself there was
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: a report IN i think twenty THIRTEEN espn dug into
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: that and that there were like mafia figures he was
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: working with to rig the. Odds we'll never know the,
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: Truth But Bobby riggs said he didn't throw. It Billy
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: Jean king said THAT i don't think he threw. It
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: like she could tell what was going on emotionally on
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: that court and could tell that he wanted to win
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: and that he was. Losing you, know he might have
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: prepared like he should. Have AND i guess we'll never
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: know the. Truth but my money's on she beat.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Him, yeah my Two but there's that rumor does have,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: legs like he did hang out with mob, guys he
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: was a huge. Gambler the idea was that he was
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: indebted to the, mob like one hundred grand for in
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: gambling debts and they would wipe it clean if he threw,
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: this and that he was also betting on, himself and
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: his son, said it's. POSSIBLE i don't really think that's,
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: true but it's, possible although his best friend is, LIKE
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: i won't even entertain that that's, Possible like he just
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: didn't do. That, yeah but one of the things that
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: people point to is he was making some terrible mistakes
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: during the, Game so either she got in his head
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: and he was rattled or he was throwing. It it
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: just seems like the general consensus is that now he
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: it seems pretty fringe that to genuinely leave that he
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: threw the.
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: Match, YEAH i. Agree WHICH i saw bits of that.
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: MOVIE i never saw the whole. Thing the casting was,
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: incredible Like Steve carell And Emma stone were kind of.
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: PERFECT i don't think the movie was reviewed like super,
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: favorably but it looked. Okay it's supposedly very true to. Life, actually, yeah,
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah Billy Jen. King at least you Told hoda And
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: Kathy lee that it was pretty true to. Life she said.
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: That she said they got the essence of. It she,
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: said it's a, movie of, course but they nailed the.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: Essence, man have you Seen? Bogogonia oh, boy, yeah that
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: is one of my new favorite. Movies that is so.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: GOOD i did not LIKE i can never remember his,
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: name what is?
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: It i'm glad you watched. That Oh Jesse.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: Plemons, no, no, no the?
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: Director oh oh oh? Uh Yugust. Lanthemos thank.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: You wouldn't That let me try saying it, Too Yorgus.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: LANTHEMOS i don't Think i've ever tried it Because i've
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: always been, Like i'm gonna screw this.
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: Up WELL i might have screwed it, up but that's
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: WHAT i don't.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: Think SO i think you got it. ANYWAY i did
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: not Like Poor, things AND i was, like, OH i don't,
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: know BECAUSE i liked everything leading up to, that but not.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: This and THEN i saw. This i'm, like he's.
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: Back, yeah it's a. GREAT i told. YOU i texted
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: you to see kinds Of kindness. Too have you seen that?
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: ONE i still have not. Know i've been watching just
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: tons of riff.
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: Tracks, yeah it's hard to get out of the cycle
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: what you get in? Sure all, Right so back to
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: this after the back to The battle of The. Sexes after,
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: this he wanted to kind of keep the media spotlight on,
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: him so he tried to jump off The London bridge In,
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: arizona but the sheriff there so, like he can't do,
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: That so he had his picture taken on the, lake
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: blow it and a. Raft Billy Jean king went on
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: to just keep Being Billy Jean. King in nineteen seventy,
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: four she founded The Women's Sports, foundation which is a
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: nonprofit for women's and girls and. Athletics and she would
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: end up sort of very publicly coming out of the
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: closet after being married for a long time to a,
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: guy not The Larry, king but Her Larry king in
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: nineteen eighty, one her longtime manager and, Assistant Marilyn. Barnett
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: it was very sad what. Happened she filed a lawsuit
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: against her which revealed their affair that they had from
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: seventy two to seventy nine because she had fallen from
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: a balcony Of Billy Jing's Billy Jing king's house In
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: malibu and lost the use of her legs and said, that,
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: Hey Billy Jing king promised to give me that house
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: and support me. Financially so she took her to court
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: and it got really.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: Messy, YEAH i. Saw so the fall from the house In,
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: MALIBU i saw was an attempted, suicide and that she
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: Had Marilyn barnett had Blackmailed Larry king And Billy Jing
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: king before the, lawsuit basically said, hey if you don't
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: want this to come, out let's settle BEFORE i actually
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: go public with. It they. Didn't she went public with,
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: it and, then to her great, credit after being outed
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty what eighty one eighty, One Billy Jing kink,
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: said you know, what we'd never promised The malibu, house but,
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: Yes i'm. Gay larry AND i have an open marriage
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: and we're actually going to stay together for the time.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: Being and they stayed together until nineteen eighty, seven and
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: they divorced Because Billy Jean king fell For Elana, kloss
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: a fellow tennis, player and they ended up getting married
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: in twenty. Eighteen so this is. Enormous she was. Outed
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: she hadn't outed. Herself her choice to do so was,
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: removed but she stood behind. It she didn't deny, it
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: she didn't deny who she. Was she, said, Yep i'm. Gay.
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah it was pretty. Great as far as equality and
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: pay and pro, sports that's obviously still a. Thing it
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: was two thousand and seven when all The Grand slams
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: agreed to pay women equally in, tennis and they still
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: don't and some of the other big, EVENTS i think
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: just a couple of years, ago the twenty twenty Four Canadian,
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: open it was a five point nine million dollar pool
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: for the men in two point million dollar pool for.
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: Women and if you, know if you come back with
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: an argument of, like, yeah well the you, know the
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: men's events are they get more viewers and more advertising
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: because they're in those better time, slots then you kind
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: of just said it. Yourself it's a lot of it
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: has to do with the fact that they're in those
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: better time slots and they tend to schedule the women's
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: events in lesser time, slots and so they don't get
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: as much. Advertising they don't, have you, know a great
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: maternity leave and professional tennis for, Women so it's you,
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: know there's still battles to be. Fought But billy Jing
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: king is still out there fighting them.
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: One last little, Thing. Chuck that always it struck. Me
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: before he died in nineteen ninety, FIVE i think like
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: the night before he, Died billy Jing king Visited Bobby
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: riggs to say.
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: Goodbye, yeah it's pretty. Great they had a, lifelong you,
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: know tie in. Friendship so that's.
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: It that's the battle of the. Sexist it.
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: Was it was.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: Great how about? That, YEAH i feel LIKE i feel
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: Like Tim robbins In, anchorman remember The he's, like you
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: know we HAVE pbs are really done with women's. Lip.
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah Also Steve carrell was in.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: That, yeah he loves. Lamp he loves. Lamp Since chuck
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: said he loves, LAMP i tricked him into. It he
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: just unlocked a listener.
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: Mail, yeah this is a listener mail Where i'm going
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: to apologize To epha From ireland because apparently we have
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: here and there dabbled In irish erasure in our, show
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: which is something that is a total accident and something
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: That i'm going to be more aware of moving. Forward
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: and here's the. Email hi, guys longtime listener, Here i'm
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: so sad to hear Two irish erasure moments in one,
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: episode in The Third Man syndrome, episode you use the
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: example of The endurance expedition to show how it, works
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: and you Called Ernest Shackleton, british and If i'm not,
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: wrong Also Tom, crean but both men were reborn In.
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: Irish shackleton was born in Kil Key county Kill. Dare
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: DID i say that? RIGHT i THINK i? Did you said, Ki,
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: yeah Kil Key County killdare just under an hour From Dublin,
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: city And crean was born In, Anascaul County. Kerry this
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: is a sore spot For irish people as we are
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: often so often Called british and we don't take it so. Well,
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: example look Up Killian murphy also being Called. British but
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: we will forgive, you, However and that is From epha And.
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: Ifa that is me being an ignorant, person AND i
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: certainly know there's a, difference AND i have a hard
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: time keeping tracks, sometimes BUT i need to do better at.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: That so.
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: Apologies nice, Work.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: Chuck i'm Sure i've done that before, too SO i
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: want to apologize.
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: Too great two apologies in one, yes and who is that?
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: From that was FROM efa spelled A i F e.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: Beautiful THANKS a LOT efa and if you want to
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: be LIKE efa and call us out on something we
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: stand for that you can send it in an email
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot.
• 49:11
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• 49:18
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