Latest / Executive Alliance Podcast / E5: Helping Women Lead Through Change with Tracy Imm of T Rowe Price
Transcript
- Rebecca Snyder: Hi everyone, I am delighted to have Tracy ⁓ in the studio today. Tracy's a vice president at T Row Price and a leadership communications and change management professional. Tracy has done so many things in her life, but her focus her focus really is on helping people and organizations move through transformative change. So Tracy, and she also, we'll talk about this a little bit later, but is the host of her own podcast, Brave Girls with Tracy ⁓ So Always a little pressure when I have a a fellow host on the show. But welcome, Tracy. Tracy Imm: Thank you, Rebecca. I'm really excited to be here. I'm excited that Executive Alliance has decided to do this podcast. I think it's a great way to showcase the voices of women in our area and talk about the things that are really important to women in the workplace today ⁓ as we sort of move through the world that is ever-changing. ⁓ As evidenced by AIAI. Rebecca Snyder: Absolutely. Well, and you know, you really deal with that intersection of people and change and sometimes scary change. And you've ⁓ we were talking before we started recording that you're sort of a master of reinvention. So your work touches on communications, change, coaching, and of course women's leadership, I think is a central piece. But when you look at the whole arc and you're, you know, you're looking from within the arc because you're not finished yet, but what's the through line when you Share your narrative. What is it? Tracy Imm: ⁓ so I I think of myself as a storyteller and I think that there's a lot of power in stories. ⁓ and I think that ⁓ being able to tell a good story helps me in the work that I do today, both at T-Row and outside of T Row, ⁓ because change is everywhere all the time, 24-7, 365. And if people can see themselves inside of the story and they can feel that they're part of the story. ⁓ that's where it's easier for people to move through change. And so people have to understand where they are and where they're going. So I do think that that's a big part of my ⁓ role and my my gift is being able to tell that story and to engage whoever the stakeholder might be. And so a lot of the roles that I've had, both in corporate and public policy, ⁓ it's about that stakeholder engagement and understanding your audience and understanding what their pain points are and why they are resisting and then making sure that people feel seen and heard throughout like when you introduce this new way of doing work or things of that nature and it could be as simple as we're putting in a new timekeeping system, right? That or they go from paper to computers, right? And How they did work day to day today is going to be different tomorrow, and why that's a good thing for them and not just the company. So I would say that a lot of it is around ⁓ the storytelling aspect and understanding, have being really grounded in business principles. ⁓ whether it's a nonprofit or it's a a for-profit or it's a government agency, everyone is gonna go through these changes, especially with the introduction of technology into the workplace. Rebecca Snyder: Mm. And so were stories always central to you or did you have kind of an aha aha moment that you were like, this is the pathway in? Tracy Imm: ⁓ so I've always been a reader, I've always been a writer. ⁓ even in elementary school, I wrote a book and put it in my elementary school library. Shout out to Miss Barry for ⁓ you know, basically ⁓ you know, encouraging encouraging me as a writer. I went to poetry camp when I was in ⁓ middle school. ⁓ you know, so I've always had sort of this creative side to me. ⁓ but at the same time I was always good at math and science. And so I I feel like I excel in the right brain activities, but I also understand the left brain. And so, for example, my undergraduate degree is in communications, but I have a minor in computer science. So I was taking, you know, advanced speech writing, and I was taking COBOL at the same time in college, right? And so I always had this interest in technology and data and things of that nature. And so I understand that language, which that's all it really is, is a different language, right? And ⁓ X's and O's and how every ones and zeros and how it all gets programmed. And ⁓ so I understand both. And so I try to feel I I really feel like I ⁓ and my gift is at that intersection between business, tech and data and people. Right. And so you don't have to be a technical expert to go through a change. You could just be a regular business person or an operations person or a customer service person, right? And I've I've literally started at the bottom and gone all the way to the top and then, you know, sideways a couple of times, right? And so just being ⁓ adaptable and willing to pivot, ⁓ I think makes me like I'm more flexible. Like and I'm not saying that change isn't hard for me to. Like sometimes it takes me a while to get my brain wrapped around what now, why is this a good thing, right? ⁓ so I understand that I've also taken a ton of courses in like human psychology, organizational development. That's where my sort of passion for leadership comes in, and in particular women in leadership. I've often found myself either the youngest person in the room, the only woman in the room. The only person without a technical degree, which I checked that box and got a technical degree. So, you know, no one could say I didn't have a technical degree. and so I'm really passionate around mentoring those people from behind, right? Because I all of my mentors were white men, ⁓ as I was kind of coming up in the corporate world. and so I want to give back. And so I really see the value in human potential and coaching and mentoring people to their highest potential. So that's kind of where my like my love is, my heart. Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Well, and one of the things I admire most about you as a leader is that ⁓ you know, you have like a really strong technical grounding and understanding of, you know, like here's the system and how it needs to go. But s oftentimes people in those positions are like, Well, and then we're gonna slot the people in and we're gonna get buy in and we're gonna do this and it feels like people are just cogs in the in the machinery ⁓ like in service to the data. And what I admire most about you is that you take a really human centered approach and that, you know, the data is important but the ⁓ the people are critical as well. And you just approach it with such humanity and grace. And I think also like when when I'm thinking about women especially, ⁓ as they grow and develop through their leadership journeys, you know, the the way you coach and the way you mentor is really focused in that way as well. Like you're not just trying to fit someone to be somewhere s something that they should be in, but you're helping them develop and take hold of those systems. So tell me, like is that sort of the way you s this is how I see it from the outside, but does that resonate with you? Tracy Imm: It does, it does. And when I work with people, ⁓ even if it's in a group coaching program or a mastermind, ⁓ I still view people as individuals and as like snowflakes, right? And so I wanna meet them where they are, right? And I wanna understand their ⁓ their hopes, their dreams, their fears, their aspirations. ⁓ and I wanna help them be able to see where they're coming. I wanna understand where they're coming from and I wanna s help them get to the to. So again, it's change, right? It's from to. Like where are you today and what got you here? But where would you like to go? And where are the gaps and how do you close those gaps as a and you know, you're gonna make mistakes as a leader, but like I come from a place of ⁓ positive intent with w when I'm coaching people, and so I always assume positive intent and ⁓ until proven otherwise, right? And so I've also worked with people who aren't open to receiving feedback on what it's going to take to get to where they want to go and the gaps that they may have. And if they're not willing to close those gaps or at least make an attempt, then it's very hard to be a mentor and coach to them. But the people that I've had the most success with are the people that I listen to very deeply ⁓ because I want to understand where they are emotionally, right? And and where their thinking is. So that then I can kind of sort of direct them. And a lot of my study has been in positive psychology. ⁓ and there's definitely something to that. not what's wrong with people, but what's what's great about people. What what what can they really lean into that is their unique gift? ⁓ and how do they show up as a leader? It could be a group of four people they supervise or it could be four hundred, right? But how you're showing up is really important. Rebecca Snyder: Uh-huh. Tracy Imm: Right, in organization. So, ⁓ and I just I I do a lot of observation. Like I can read a room, right? Like I can go into a room and I can see the power dynamics, I can see who's it and a lot of my roles I've had to lead through influence. So I didn't have a direct authority over people, but I was I leaned into being able to influ influence that and that kind of goes back to I'm very relationship oriented and you know Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tracy Imm: very much about people and the relationship that I have with them and the give and take, right? Like and I always want to know what can I do to s to to help you with what you're trying to achieve because it's karma. It comes back to me. It really does. Rebecca Snyder: Right. It does well and and one of the things that ⁓ I always find so interesting in the idea of change, whether it's your own leadership journey and I love how you come f focused on someone's strengths. The world's set up to make us feel bad. So, you know, leading with strength I think is so important. But the process of discernment that I th that it feels like before you can either present yourself out in the world as, you know ⁓ sometimes you think of yourself as a brand or sometimes it's you know you're just showing up authentically. You have to know who you are. And I feel like that's an area that you really ⁓ are strong in and that's an area that many people kind of discount because we're so focused on running ahead for the doing and not the discerning of well what do I want and why do I want it? And is that really what I want? So how do you kind of talk people through that discernment? Do you have tools that you like to use? Tracy Imm: yeah, so a lot of it is through inquiry and I I listened to the podcast you did with Krista Crawford and ⁓ she may she book has great ideas and I agree with a lot of what she does in her coaching practice. ⁓ but it's that self awareness, right? It's it's not only understanding yourself but how other people perceive you, and then really dialing into what is it that you need to focus on. Rebecca Snyder: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Tracy Imm: ⁓ and so a lot of it is through inquiry, through questioning, through helping people get that clarity, because I agree you have to be really clear. ⁓ and I've spent a lot of my own money and time on my professional and personal growth and development. Not everybody is like, and I'm probably to the extreme. I like do every class and read every book and all the podcasts and stuff like that because I believe that I'm just trying to make myself a better human. Right. And ⁓ make the world a better place. Like, you know, my big lofty goal, right? Is like this global humanitarian that I want to become, right? And so how can I step into that every single day in the interactions that I have with people? Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Well, in that clarity of purpose, like once you know who you are and what you want to bring to the world, it kind of makes all those other decisions be background noise because you know why you're there and so you're not running around trying to do things that aren't suited to you. Tracy Imm: Yes. Yeah, yeah, and I also ⁓ I and this has happened to me personally and I've also seen it in some of the people that I've worked with is when something is a little off or there's friction in the system, a lot of times you're not in the right environment or you're not working for the right person or there's a values conflict, right? And so ⁓ you sort of do a root cause analysis of why things feel kind of off, right? and then that sometimes leads you to getting more. clear and then what you're seeking, right? In your next role or your next organization or your next whatever. ⁓ and I do think that that helps when you have that clarity and you understand what your own values are. And I know we do that in the Executive Alliance mentoring program. We we take them through that in the very beginning is to get clarity around their values, right? Like what is most important to you from a values perspective. And then making sure that the environment that you're in reflects that back to you, right? Rebecca Snyder: Well in certainly in that values exercise, I think it's important to recognize that sometimes your values change. It's not like, you know, they you're tossing out and like, ⁓ 'cause we as you know, we look for the top five values. And at different chapters and stages of one's life, different things are gonna bubble up and and really be a be a focus. And so how have how have your values changed and how have you kind of changed the Tracy Imm: Yeah. Rebecca Snyder: Or or lived those changing values through some of your stages. Tracy Imm: think it goes back to understanding what season of life you're in. ⁓ also so that's one piece, right? Is like what season are you in? Are you in the I'm having babies and you know or I'm taking care of parents caregiving stage or are you in the I've got the bandwidth to really throw myself into what I'm working on as a professional, right? So understanding the season that you're in, but then also I think for me having been in environments where I'm like something just doesn't feel right. And then I realize, ⁓ it's because this is my value here and this environment doesn't have it. So then I want to make sure that the next thing I go to does is like that's my number one thing I'm looking for. And that may also like highlight, ⁓ this value really is important to me. And I didn't think it was, but it is, right? Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, I when we s first started doing values with the Executive Alliance program and I had done values before, but you know, really discerning for me like self determination is such an important value. And but the the one that actually I had to give myself permission to let rise to the top was the value of beauty, which in my life I've not always counted that as like an action that's something I want to prioritize in my life. I've always loved Tracy Imm: Right. Rebecca Snyder: you know, sort of beauty and ease. But in the in the chapter that I'm in, those are things that are really important to me to like show up for in some ways and holding that space. and so but actually not to ramble, we can I if you know your values, I'd love to hear them, but I don't want to put you on the spot. Do you do you spit them out? I have them on my desk right here so I look at them. Tracy Imm: Yeah, well you know, your strengths are the same way, right? Like your strengths also may shift. ⁓ I love it. I love it. Yeah, so like your your values and your like I would say like the core ten have always been the core ten, right? But then like within that. Like for me, I need to be able to trust the people that I work with. Like integrity's super, super high on my on my scale because I wanna, you know, not have to be like looking over my shoulder or Rebecca Snyder: Well w Hi, here's my mug. Mm-hmm. Tracy Imm: you know, and there's gonna always be politics wherever you go. and I just I I wanna hold myself to a high standard that I don't want to like what you see is what you get. Like I'm not gonna play games, right? ⁓ and so it kinda bothers me sometimes when I see lots of gamesmanship. I call ⁓ reindeer games. Like when I see reindeer games, I'm like, that's a lot of reindeer games. And that's distracting people from the actual work that needs to be done, right? And to get the outcome that we said we wanted to achieve. So Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Tracy Imm: you know, just over time. And also I think as you age, I think you approach work a little bit differently. ⁓ especially when you have some some really like valuable experiences and achievements behind you. ⁓ but I do think that every single day you have to kind of show up as a new version of yourself and kind of prove yourself all over again, which can sometimes be exhausting. Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. So a a lot of what we've talked about feels a little bit like, okay, you know, you have a lot of autonomy in your job and you can choose like, well, gosh, this this is there's friction. I don't fit here, so I'll just go somewhere else. But I think especially women maybe in the earlier stages of their careers don't always feel like they have those options. And so how do you ⁓ do you have suggestions or how people would navigate when they're feeling stuck, like I can't just go and find another job, like maybe I'm here for certain reasons, but they don't feel it's a good fit or there's change that's coming that they're just uncomfortable with. Like how do you how do you guide people through that? Tracy Imm: Well, I mean, I kinda always go back to we all have agency and everything is a choice and we have the agency to make decisions, right? And so while you may be in a situation, it could be temporary, right? And so what can you get get out of that experience that like what is this is supposed to teach you by being in this spirit this experience? Maybe it's patience, maybe it's you know, learning Rebecca Snyder: ⁓ Tracy Imm: something that will and like make you a better whatever in your next role, right? And so there's always something to be and Oprah always talks about this too, right? When things happen to you. It's like there's always something to be learned from the experience. But I do think we have agency and I do think that if it's so so bad that you can always develop a plan, like an escape plan. Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Tracy Imm: Which is okay, I can tolerate this. I think it's tolerations and boundaries too, right? Like you have to have your own boundaries, like in terms of like the number of hours that someone expects you to work, right? And if it's unreasonable, it's unreasonable and you have to stand your ground. ⁓ and then I think also you have to say, Okay, well, I'm willing to tolerate this for the next six months because we reorg around here every other day, right? So who I work for today may not be who I work for. in two weeks, right? And so I'm willing to tolerate it because I believe in the vision and the mission of this overall organization and I'm bought into it. Right. So, ⁓ but I I think it it's a personal journey. and I think the other thing, ⁓ I counsel a lot of people who have been laid off and Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Uh-huh. Tracy Imm: you know, the first time it happens, you're you're kind of in shock and you have to go through this seven stages of grief, right? Especially if you didn't see it coming. ⁓ and so I think that you have to see the value in what you bring to the table, and not take it personally, 'cause most of these layoffs are not personal. It's it's a it's a financial thing that the companies are doing to to just get their cost under control. Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Right. That makes perfect sense. And it it also kind of strikes me that you're not and everyone knows this intellectually if even if you don't always know it emotionally, that you're not just your job. And I think you've done such an interest you have such an interesting world. Like, when I think about you, you have a really demanding job at T Row Price, but you're also doing so many other things and I see you as like this fully realized person Tracy Imm: Thank you. I I I think I think the reason is because I had an episode where I like I really poured into my job and my job was my identity and I had to learn sort of the hard way that I'm I'm a human with, you know, lots of other aspects to my life and and different aspects of my personality and ⁓ so I had to learn how to detach from that. And I also ha I also set goals for myself for community involvement, right? And for my creative, like my podcast was really born out of the like I love to create content and I love to talk to people. And ⁓ someone encouraged me to do a podcast before women were really podcasting. And so I'm super proud of my podcast because this year I'm gonna hit a hundred episodes. I'm in fifty four countries. I'm in countries where women don't have very many rights. They don't they can't use their voice. And so the fact that my podcast is being listened to by these women around the world gives me, you know, I feel like I'm trying to give them hope and inspiration for their their, you know, situation in in the country that they live in. And I've been able to meet so many amazing women and feature their stories about their career journeys or the lessons that they've learned that other people share. So I feel like that's fulfills my connector strength, right? Is that connective t I like being that connective tissue. It comes naturally to me to bring people together. ⁓ and so I like to affiliate myself with organizations like Executive Alliance and other like minded women who are about female empowerment and I love that we have an advocacy aspect and that we can influence public policy and that we can help the ⁓ the state of Maryland become a better state by putting women on boards and commissions. ⁓ like that's important to me. ⁓ and I love that we are the voice of women in the workplace. Like I love being part of that. and ⁓ so anything I can do to support those types of endeavors, that's just very important to me. Rebecca Snyder: Well and I think also like translating kind of the ⁓ the the woman spirit into action is really important because otherwise, you know, it it's it's not empty empowerment, but it can feel a little disinju like, ⁓ you can do anything, but if you're not actively advocating and supporting women who are making change, I think that there's a disconnect there. And so you I think ⁓ I wanted to go back to you had said Tracy Imm: Yes. Rebecca Snyder: one of your purposes is to be a global humanitarian. What draws you to that global stage? And how did you get your podcast in fifty four countries? That's like next level. Tracy Imm: I think well it is. I think I think I started in 2016. There they're really that I think it was like one percent of podcasters were women. So I think people were hungry for content produced by women. ⁓ and so I think it was a timing thing. and I think that I kept them short. My podcasts were very short, so you could and this was back in the day when everybody was commuting, you know, an hour to get to their jobs. Rebecca Snyder: Okay. Mm-hmm. Right. Tracy Imm: So it was the perfect length for a commute in or out of the office, right? ⁓ and so ⁓ I think that was part of it. So I think the length was part of it, I think the timing was part of it. I didn't do any kind of big global like ⁓ promotion, ⁓ but so I think it was a timing thing. ⁓ I did stop the podcast at one point ⁓ because I had a health issue. But I've restarted it and I'm really energized by it and I've taken a different approach. ⁓ so that it's easier to produce. ⁓ I I put a lot of pressure on myself in the beginning to be consistent every single week. So fifty two episodes, fifty-two episodes, like I I was really consistent with that. ⁓ and it was a lot of work. ⁓ I did have assistants, I did have a producer, ⁓ but I was the one, you know, finding the guests, doing the transcripts, doing the recordings, all that. I still have Rebecca Snyder: Mm. Tracy Imm: I have a different person now ⁓ who helps so the lift isn't as heavy. ⁓ because I learned that I need a team. So I we call ourselves Team Tracy. And ⁓ you know, it's ⁓ we've project manage it all ⁓ asynchronous using Asana as our tool. ⁓ and it's worked out really, really well over the last two years. ⁓ but I take a seasonal approach, so I picked a topic or a theme. So I just came off of the caring from the heart ⁓ Rebecca Snyder: Love that. Mm. Tracy Imm: theme and I'm getting ready to roll into smart money for my next theme and I'm super excited about that to talk about ⁓ women and money and just there's five million tentacles that come off of that. ⁓ and so I'm excited to share the guests that I was able to land for that ⁓ season. And then the season after that I'm gonna do one on health and wellness. So I have a lot of, you know, different topics and and experts that I wanna bring on the show to share their knowledge, right? Rebecca Snyder: ⁓ I love that. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Well Tracy Imm: I also feel like I also feel like I'm a teacher. Like I have this innate desire to teach people. So I think it that's kinda where I I my come from is and my joy is. Seeing students have the aha moment. Rebecca Snyder: Mm. ⁓ and I Yeah, well, because you're also an an an adjunct, ⁓ or lecturer, what I don't know the title. Tracy Imm: I was an adjunct professor, yeah. So I'm on I'm on sabbatical as they say right now. But yeah, but I've taught over five hundred students. I found that ⁓ I was hiring people into the workforce and they didn't have the skills, but they had the degree and I would spend two years training them on things I thought they should have learned in the classroom. So I was like, I'm gonna go fix that problem. And that was really the driving force for I mean, 'cause you don't make a whole lot of money, so it wasn't about the money, it was about how can I help people be better Rebecca Snyder: ⁓ lucky you. Mm-hmm. Tracy Imm: equipped to enter the workforce with their degree, right? So that ⁓ they will be attractive candidates to hiring managers and they can hit the s hit the ground running after they get that paper degree ⁓ with a portfolio and ⁓ they can articulate their value proposition to an employer. So I'm super proud of some of the accomplishments of some of the people that I've taught who got crystal clear in their undergrad or grad degree. Rebecca Snyder: Yeah. Tracy Imm: ⁓ and what they're doing out in the world as, you know, chief marketing officers and agency owners and, you know, everything from A to Z. ⁓ and a lot of them have come back and said it all started when they were in my classroom and I was like, Theory's great, but like this is what you need to know how to do. Rebecca Snyder: Well, and it for me that comes back to your storytelling because if you cannot articulate your own story and tell your story to others, no hiring manager is going to dig deep and be like, Let me figure out your story. They're just like, That person's chaotic, maybe has some skills, but I can't understand where they would fit into this organization. So now is it just ⁓ not just, but is storytelling really the crux of what you're doing, or are there other things that you think gr young graduates need to what do you think they need to really enter the workforce suc successfully? Tracy Imm: So if they're coming out of college with some kind of a digital marketing or communications or any of those types of degrees, I think you need to be able to speak in front of a group competently. I do a lot of that in my classroom is I make them present because I'm like I'm not gonna fire you from the class. Okay. But you're gonna be more successful if you have this degree. Rebecca Snyder: Mm. Mm-hmm. Tracy Imm: To be able to actually present, look the audience in the eye, have your content organized in a way so that you could be a company spokesperson one day, or you could be the chief marketing officer, right? And so because that's such a big part of the role, right, is being able to stand up and kick off a town hall meeting and those types of things. So it's having that presence, right? ⁓ I definitely feel like you need to be able to write. And you need to be able to have critical thinking skills. And I think that's where maybe because this generation has been brought up on computers, they've never not known an iPhone, right? And so ⁓ really those critical thinking skills and problem solving, right? Because I just think that's still always gonna be really important. Rebecca Snyder: Well, n to be able to think on your feet. It's one thing to say and our world is so asynchronous that you know, you have that luxury of saying, ⁓ I'll get back to you or like, I'm gonna follow up on that email in just a minute and really craft it if you want to. But when you're out in the real world interacting with people, you have to be able to spit it out and interact on on at a moment's notice. I wanna Tracy Imm: Yes. Rebecca Snyder: I wanna actually before we go on, we're I want to talk about women invisibility next, but before we do that, it's been on my heart to talk about feedback. So earlier in our conversation, you were talking about how sometimes it's difficult if someone's not able to accept feedback. And I wanted to kind of dig into that a little bit on what you think holds people back from accepting feedback? Like I'm thinking, is it they're very positional in their approach to their self awareness? Is it fear based? Like what do you think holds people back from really accepting feedback? Tracy Imm: ⁓ I think it's a couple of things. I think ⁓ first of all people aren't very good at giving feedback. So you may have had an experience where it the the it wasn't so much the message, it was the way it was delivered. And so I think there's a actual art to giving feedback and receiving feedback. ⁓ and I think sometimes people are maybe insensitive when they give people feedback. So I think you may have had a bad experience getting feedback, so therefore you're kind of like Rebecca Snyder: Mm. Mm-hmm. Tracy Imm: an injured dog, right? ⁓ so I think that's part of it. I think sometimes it is the lack of self awareness or, ⁓ you know, I've noticed that some people have a high need to be right all the time. I have I have a couple of people that they have a high need for ⁓ visibility and like recognition. So it kind of depends on ⁓ and and so you have to kind of look at yourself a little bit, like what is it about you that makes you resistant to that feedback, right? ⁓ Rebecca Snyder: Right. Tracy Imm: And also I think, you know, I know I'm very empathetic, so I am s super super sensitive, right? And so I have I now recognize that ⁓ that's where I'm coming from, right? I'm already too sensitive, right? So I need to toughen up a little bit and really receive it and then digest it. Some people also need more time to process it. Like you can't just like vomit the feedback on somebody because sometimes they Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tracy Imm: You have to kind of give ⁓ the context and then if they're supposed to do something with it, like so I think it's it's an art and I think that's also why people avoid crucial conversations. 'Cause I do a lot of coaching in that with people when they're in supervision, like getting over their fear of having a hard conversation with their person. And once you kind of Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Mm. Tracy Imm: learn how to do it, it becomes easier and you get more confidence. So a lot of times people are very avoidant in giving feedback. So yes. Yes. Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Until it becomes this huge thing that you can't avoid. And then you're like, and I'm gonna bring stuff back from six months ago because it's been weighing on me. Tracy Imm: That's ter that's like a terrible plan. Like it's better to make and the other thing I teach people is ⁓ the best thing to do when you hire and onboard somebody onto your team is to share with them a written document of your expectations. Somebody did that with me and I was like, ⁓ this is fantastic and then anytime he gave me feedback, he would specifically point back to where I missed one of his expectations and he was disappointed, right? And I never wanted to disappoint him, right? But So I and he said to me, he's like, if you it was before I became a supervisor. He said, When you become a supervisor, he goes, This will be and I came up with my own expectations. I didn't just use his, but it was like ten items, right? And I used to have so I would orient the person to the team and I would say put pin this in your at your desk on your little cork board so that it's always in front of you so that you can g run through my expectations and as you're doing things and you're making decisions. Just see if it aligns with my expectations and then know that I'm gonna come back to you with some very specific feedback on the specific expectation that you missed. So for example, I was the supervisor of a department that supported other departments, and so internal customer service was really important to me and building those relationships with those other internal people that we were working with. And that was like one of my first things, and then like things would go sideways, and I was like, again. really important that you don't have to like the person that you're supporting, but you do have to have a good customer service orientation, right? Rebecca Snyder: Well, and it for me, like that all comes back to that clarity. And I love that if you're a supervisor, getting clear about your expectations, and I think you know, ⁓ it's it is not easy to be a supervisor, and oftentimes you become a supervisor because you're really good at doing the work. But no one tells you how to be a supervisor, and so you kind of go in all all like excited, I'm gonna do this. Tracy Imm: A hundred percent. That happens all the time. A hundred percent. Rebecca Snyder: But if you're not clear about what you need to do and what you're expecting from other people, like I think that process of even creating those expectations probably snaps things into clarity for the supervisor themselves. Tracy Imm: Hundred percent. But I've also seen people, you know, when there's sort of a kerfuffle going on over here, ⁓ and it would be exactly what you said, like the person was super smart software engineer, technical, tacky tacky, and they decided to put them in charge of all the software engineers. Well, to be a software engineer and to lead a team of software engineers is two different skill sets. And so it I've seen this a lot where Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tracy Imm: the team is failing because they don't have the right person leading. Like you're better off having a leader that doesn't even know how to do programming, but they know how to lead a team to take charge, right? And then put this person in like a and there's even jobs out there where it's like the technical expert. They still make pretty good money, but they're an individual contributor. And they're more the technical SME on big complicated projects. ⁓ because it is, it's two different skill sets. Rebecca Snyder: So how do you like if you're now that technical supervisor that really, you know, is you wanna do it but you're not sure how, how do you start that journey? I mean, is is there Tracy Imm: those leadership development programs that you can you can do inside companies and outside like executive alliances, right? Like if you have aspirations to lead a team or to to have a higher position or whatever. But just understand that it's a different skill set, right? And it's a people centric skill set. Those soft skills, right, that are gonna make you successful. Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. No that So I want to shift into building your visibility as a female leader. And I think, you know, you've written books, you are a keynote speaker, you have your podcast. ⁓ I wanted to start though back in elementary school with author confidence. So I want to know what that book was that is in your elementary school library and what that's about. And, you know, how you kept that confidence to put yourself out there in written format like that. throughout your arc. But what's in ⁓ what's in the library? Tracy Imm: ⁓ in the library with Miss Barry ⁓ at Hickory Elementary School. so it's really funny. it was before rollerblading was a thing. So I wrote this book about this girl who ⁓ she got a gift at Christmas time and it was actually it was rollerblades. It was skates that were all like it wasn't like the four like wheels. It was yeah, it wasn't roller skates. So I had this vision that she had that she got this Christmas present. Rebecca Snyder: Yeah. Mm-hmm. It wasn't roller skates, yep. Tracy Imm: And she wanted to learn how to use them. And so it was her with her rollerblades skating around the neighborhood. And it's so funny because when rollerblades came out, I was like, ⁓ my gosh, that was what my book was about. I was like, yeah, exactly. I was like, I foreshadowed, like the rollerblades were coming because they didn't exist back then. So yeah, it was about this little girl who got rollerblades for Christmas and she wrote rollerbladed through she learned how to rollerblade through her neighborhood. Rebecca Snyder: They stole my idea. Tracy Imm: Not funny. Rebecca Snyder: Well and so I admire third grade Tracy or elementary school Tracy who, you know, conceptu had a revolutionary idea, number one, but just kind of the follow through and the courage to go to your librarian and like make that happen. So I I mean it would just never I don't think it's in my conception of myself to be like, ⁓ I'm gonna spit out a book no matter what age I am and you've done it a couple times. So what do you think Like why what's pulling you towards writing? What's ⁓ how does that work for you? Tracy Imm: Well, next so back then, ⁓ I just like I said, I went to poetry camp, I like to write, like it was all that was just very appealing to me. and then you know, I really thought when I when I went to college I wanted to be an on air sports broadcaster. Clearly that didn't happen. And that was where I ⁓ like I I had a column in the newspaper in college. Rebecca Snyder: ⁓ wow. Tracy Imm: Uh-huh. Yeah. And ⁓ it's funny because the person at the college who I report to, he ⁓ he was the editor and he reminded me of that. And I was like, I totally forgot. I worked for you back then. ⁓ but yeah, I had a column at what's that? McDaniel. Yeah, I went to McDaniel. Yeah, yeah. My my part was my he was my film partner. and I picked him as my partner because he was really good and he went to cinema school out in LA and ⁓ Rebecca Snyder: That's so funny. Did you go to McDaniel College? Did you go to McDaniel? Okay. Tracy Imm: Out Hollywood credits and stuff, and then came back and created the cinema program there. ⁓ and we've stayed friends ever since. But ⁓ yeah, so I've always ⁓ there is a piece though, as a writer, where you are vulnerable and you have to get over that fear of the visibility. ⁓ so like my second book, I'm only now starting to promote it. but I wrote it more as like a healing journey for me of. Rebecca Snyder: Yeah. Tracy Imm: these different shameful stories ⁓ very burning brownish ⁓ and so I'm only now promoting it I wrote it in 2018 but ⁓ I've given a couple talks with different women's groups about it and everything and everyone has shame and sort of like a universal like emotion but ⁓ yeah I think it you you just kind of have to get over it and be like this is part of my service to the world is to use this gift that I have but now I get these downloads Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Tracy Imm: It's the craziest thing. I'll be taking a shower and all of a sudden I'll get this download like you need to write a self help book or like you need to write a blog or like and so it's just things come to me and now what I use is I use my voice app and I'll just like I could be in the car and I'll get this download that something needs to come out and I just I I don't know where it's coming from, God, source, I don't know, and I just speak it into my voice memo and get AI to transcribe it and then that may become a chapter of something that I'm writing. Rebecca Snyder: Hmm. No, so I want to go into the ⁓ idea of shame and and you know, personally I feel like fear is one of the most powerful emotions of all. but it sounds like shame, which ⁓ feelings of shame, I don't know if we could count that necessarily as an emotion, but it's certainly a powerful force. And I think it's important though, because so often we like to gloss over, you know, that discomfort, like, ⁓ I'm embarrassed by this. I'm d so Tracy Imm: Okay. Rebecca Snyder: What is it for you that is important about bringing those stories to light? Tracy Imm: Well, I think we all have the human experience and sometimes we forget that and we think we're the only one like experiencing whatever that emotion is. And so I think that people feel seen when they realize it's not just them. And like Dr. David Hawkins, he did a lot of work around the sort of the energetic ⁓ vibration of different emotions. There's like the scale. And like anything below the acceptance line, they're like the low vibe feelings. And so I write about a lot of those that I've had. But then like my one coach taught me that ⁓ you have to like if something's bothering you, you have to get to acceptance as fast as you can, because then that tips you on the higher vibration ⁓ emotions like love and peace and joy and hope and all those. And so Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tracy Imm: you have to if something's bothering you or you know, you're really angry at someone, which is a low vibe, ⁓ you have to just accept it is what it is and then move on, even though it might like you you don't want to s swirl in these low vibe emotions. And so I always say, How can I get to acceptance as quick as possible? Because then I can transform, right? Again, change, right? How can I change my my situation or my like downward spiral? Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tracy Imm: ⁓ and so that's why I write about a lot of those emotions. Not not because I wanna I I kinda wanna expose them and let people know that it's okay and we all kinda can get we're gonna have our moments, right? We're gonna be down there. ⁓ but you gotta get out of it is is the issue, right? As quick as possible. Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Right. Well and and getting to ex like true acceptance is it's a little bit of a journey. It's not just like, okay, I'm gonna deal with this. I'm gonna suffer. Tracy Imm: ⁓ it's No, it's hard. It's hard. Rebecca Snyder: So how do you get to acceptance? I know writing's a a big piece of it for you, but are there other Tracy Imm: So I'm I'm I'm a big meditator, so ⁓ I meditate every day and that gives me some clarity. I've been doing these meditations on Insight Timer that are ⁓ based in Stoic philosophy, which I didn't know much about the Stoics. ⁓ and the person that I ⁓ is one of my executives at T Row said that ⁓ she had been really diving into the writings of the Stoics. Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tracy Imm: And I was like, that's kind of a weird thing. And then I like, I went down the whole rabbit hole of like, well, maybe I should do that, right? And ⁓ and now that I think about her, she is very stoic. She is and and so she has embraced a lot of the stoic ⁓ teachings or whatever from like way back when. But these meditations and making sure that I have a daily med meditation practice has really helped me. And it's also helped me regulate my nervous system so that I I don't have like big emotional like roller coasters because I think it's important when you're a leader that you do have to ⁓ make sure that your your vessel is, you know, as even as possible. 'Cause people people can pick up on that energy if you're not your your emotions aren't regulated. Rebecca Snyder: Well then everyone's bringing their emotions and their mess to you. And if you don't have a handle on yourself, you know, you can't hold it you can't hold the sh you can't hold space for other people. s and s actually for people who don't know a lot about stoic philosophy, do you wanna ⁓ give just a a ⁓ little thirty second spiel on on enduring and accepting? Tracy Imm: They sure are. Correct. Correct. I don't know that I I can I can do that. I would just say that there are many books about about stoicism that are out there. ⁓ Marcus Aurelius was the big guy back in the day. there's a guy, Ryan Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tracy Imm: store in Texas and he has a podcast and everything and he I follow him. I can't think of his name now. ⁓ but he he he kind of takes sort of these ancient tablet type teachings and he brings it forward into twenty twenty six so that you understand it. But Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Well and and one of the things that I've always admired about the Stoics is is sort of that dispassionate sort of evaluation of a situation. And I think when you were when you were Tracy Imm: Yeah. It's detachment. Yeah, it's like the detachment piece. Rebecca Snyder: And and when you were talking about receiving feedback, sort of separating out the emotional nuances and looking at something, you know, with with that rational side of your head and and like examining it and which I think that's a very meditative process where, you know, you're not reacting, you're observing, you know, the thought is coming through. I look at it, I set it aside. And that's a very stoical Tracy Imm: It is. It is. It is. Rebecca Snyder: Peace, ⁓ and that creates some resilience because you know, ⁓ okay, like I can hear hard things, I can look at this, and I can separate it from my immediate reaction. ⁓ so I can see how that that would be something that's really helpful. ⁓ and so but let's pop back to visibility and I know we're we're near our end of the time, but you are so your speaking engagements, all the other things that you're doing, what Was it difficult for you to push yourself to be as visible as you are, or did that kind of that teaching part come naturally? Tracy Imm: the beginning. No, in the beginning it was. No, I mean in the beginning it was. ⁓ now I do it I do it for the audience, not for myself. Like it's not I'm not trying to be self promotional. I'm trying to give the wisdom that I've gained in my lifetime as a gift to others to hopefully inspire and motivate them to reach their highest potential. Rebecca Snyder: Mm-hmm. Tracy Imm: Right. And so in the beginning it was, but I would say now it's not because it's just who I am. And I think I've I've been building that muscle over the years. Probably when I first wrote my first book. I was doing a lot of free speaking at that time because I was very passionate about getting these students ready for the job market, right? And that was really the inspiration was I was I had given a talk at Towson to like two hundred students about Rebecca Snyder: Uh-huh. Tracy Imm: ⁓ my career and my advice and someone said you should turn this into a book because it would be really helpful to more students. So that's really was the genesis of it. And then ⁓ I, you know, just through working with different mentors and coaches, they were just really encouraging me to put my content out there ⁓ and to really use it ⁓ from sort of a you know like I didn't even really think I had a personal brand. Rebecca Snyder: Mm. Tracy Imm: And someone was like, Well, you have a personal brand. And I was like, What is that? Like, really? Like, yeah, who knew? Right. But I would say, I get such like I just am in flow state when I'm writing or creating some kind of piece of content, whether it's a podcast or doing the research for the podcast or whatever. So, that just gives me a lot of ⁓ creative energy. Right. And so that's just kind of where I am and Rebecca Snyder: Who knew? Mm-hmm. Tracy Imm: I I hope to be able to influence again, that's a skill. ⁓ influences other people on their journeys, right? And I take interest in where they end up and where they go and like I I try to follow up with a lot of the mentees from the Executive Alliance program years later to just be like, And where are you now? And what are you doing and you know. Rebecca Snyder: Well those connections do stay with you and and you never know sort of the the connection or the impact that you have on someone. ⁓ so it's I'm I love that you're you're always following up. So when you're actually I feel like we're in a snapshot and you're in in time for you, so what's stirring next for you? You're always in a process of reinvention and change. What's what's coming up? Tracy Imm: Yeah, yeah. So th my big focus right now is I'm working on a book proposal with a book coach, ⁓ to ⁓ find a traditional publisher for a women's leadership book. ⁓ for the for the women in the workforce today, ⁓ because some of my experience is not relevant anymore, ⁓ just because of where we are in in the world. ⁓ and so I really wanna have some kind of a body of work that I can share, ⁓ that could be sort of something that ⁓ if you're if you if you decide to go down the corporate path, which was my my path, ⁓ just some of the things that I want to share with you as a as a woman coming up through the ranks in the world today, to help you ⁓ in your personal and professional growth and development. So ⁓ my proposal is really thick and really full, but like a lot of that visibility work that I've done over the last couple of years, ⁓ she had encouraged me to do that because traditional publishers want to see that you have a platform and that you have an audience. Right. And so I've been very intentional about that in anticipation of the book proposal, which I hope to get ⁓ finished ⁓ by this year so that we can shop it. Yeah. But she seems to think she's very connected in the liter liter literary world with agents and she seems to think that ⁓ there's a market for it. And ⁓ I've written a couple of the chapters already because they want to see sample chapters. Rebecca Snyder: Exciting. Mm-hmm. Tracy Imm: So, yeah, so that's what I'm working on. Rebecca Snyder: I love that. So then ⁓ in closing, what are the leadership tips you hope women coming up today are gonna learn from you? Tracy Imm: ⁓ I think the most important thing is to be authentic, ⁓ and relatable. and also have that clarity around what it is that you want and and kinda going for it. ⁓ because right now with the way that work is structured and the world is much more global, there's so many opportunities. whether you want to be a fractional type of employee or contractual employee and have your own little business with a bunch of clients or you want to be in house, like there's just there's always going to be a need for talent. And ⁓ part of the research I did for my podcast for this series is ⁓ women now outpace men in every level of higher education. So we get more bachelor's degrees, more master's degrees, more PhDs, and more law degrees. So I think it's ⁓ it's you know, we've all gone down and we've checked all the boxes, gotten all the certificates, whatever it is that you need for your particular functional area of expertise. And so I think it's time to, you know, just step into it and ⁓ offer that up as value add to corporations globally. Rebecca Snyder: Now's the time for action. We've we've got all the boxes and now, you know, there's that pipeline coming in. So I'm here for it. Super excited to see your book come out. And this was such a great conversation, Tracy. I always always love talking to you. So thank you for coming on the show. Tracy Imm: It really is. Right. Right back at you, Rebecca. I always love talking to you two. I think we're kindred spirits. Rebecca Snyder: Absolutely.