Latest / StartUp Health NOW Podcast / From Journalist to HealthTech Investor: Chrissy Farr, OMERS Ventures

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From Journalist to HealthTech Investor: Chrissy Farr, OMERS Ventures · StartUp Health NOW Podcast

• 0:00
  [on-hold music] Welcome to Startup Health Now, the podcast where we celebrate the innovators and entrepreneurs building the future of health.
• 0:17
  I'm India Edwards. This week on the podcast, we sat down with Chrissy Farr, a health tech investor at OMERS Ventures, where she focuses on women's health and behavior health.
• 0:27
  In this interactive chat, Chrissy talked about her priorities for the remainder of the year, including focus areas of women's and behavioral health, as well as her experience making the change from being a full-time journalist covering the health tech beat at major publications like CNBC and Fast Company to a venture capitalist, and how all of that has impacted her view on company storytelling.
• 0:48
  She also gave the inside scoop on OMERS Ventures and how to position yourself to get on her and the broader company's radar. Enjoy.
• 0:56
  [upbeat music] Uh, this week we're honored to have Chrissy Farr, a principal investor at OMERS Venture, where she focuses on health tech, specifically, uh, women's health and behavioral health.
• 1:15
  Today, we're gonna learn about her new role at OMERS, but also about how her work as a journalist informs that role, and how she thinks about the storytelling that is so important to the startup, uh, journey.
• 1:28
  So Chrissy, thanks for joining us today. Thanks for having me, Logan.
• 1:32
  So when we last saw you, in person at least, uh, you were on the Startup Health Festival stage, and you were, you were interviewing somebody else in your role as a, uh, correspondent for CNBC.
• 1:45
  So now you, you list yourself on Twitter, I think, as a former journalist, and you are a health tech investor. So catch us up on that cr- career, uh, shift, and kind of what, what led to that. Yeah.
• 1:59
  It's a, it's a great question, um, and something that I've been asked about, you know, a fair bit since I joined, because the, the path that I had into venture is, is fairly non-traditional.
• 2:09
  Although there certainly are people with [notification sound] journalism backgrounds doing, doing the job. Um, so you know, I had been doing the journalism thing for quite a while. Um, started out in around 2011.
• 2:21
  Had been in health tech, um, since, you know, the beginning, basically, which was also the early days of, of digital health. So I just, I remember being at the first Rock Health conferences, and, um, [laughs]
• 2:33
  when it was still an accelerator. I don't know if anyone remembers that.
• 2:36
  And, um, and we-- I l- I actually launched a, a conference when I was at VentureBeat, which is the first, uh, place that I worked, called Health Beat, and that was where companies like Grand Rounds, uh, pitched for the first time and, and you guys know, um, where, where Grand Rounds is at now.
• 2:52
  Um, so I felt like I had been a part of the industry, that I had spent most of my 20s covering digital health, being a part of it, grew up with the industry.
• 3:02
  Um, and eventually, it just got to the point where I felt like I was extremely embedded in it, um, and that, you know, those were my people. A lot of, a lot of my close friends had come from digital health.
• 3:14
  And so I, I wanted to take on a new role where I could work much more closely with people, where we could have candid conversations, where I could be much more explicitly on the team, on the side of, of the founder, um, versus kind of in my journalism role when I was...
• 3:29
  I felt like I was on the outside. Um, and you know, the stories that you would hear about companies would be very glossed over in many ways.
• 3:38
  I'm sure you've all been trained to kinda tell the best version of your business to, to journalists, but, you know, I felt like I, I wanted to hear the real story and I wanted to be-- I wanted to p- participate in conversations, uh, around, you know, where things are not going well, and be helpful, um, where, where I could.
• 3:56
  Um, and I'd also seen VCs be mostly male and invest in, you know, areas over and over and over again, um, that I was not as excited about kind of to, to cover as a journalist.
• 4:07
  And so I thought, you know, I'm gonna try this investing thing, and I'm gonna try to bring in women, and I'm gonna try to do-- invest in companies that I felt were being overlooked.
• 4:16
  Um, and so that's what I'm trying to do here. And, you know, I, I've heard that it takes a decade to figure out if you're any good. Um, so I'm, I'm starting to place some bets on the, on the board.
• 4:25
  Um, and it'll take some time to figure out if any of them will work, but, um, I'm enjoying the challenge so far. That's awesome.
• 4:33
  Well, we'll talk about those bets you've placed, and kind of where your head's at i- in that regard. But, um, talk to us about OMERS Ventures, where you ended up.
• 4:42
  Um, you know, teach us about what the company looks to invest in broadly, and then we can talk more about your personal, uh, hopes and your thesis, uh, secondarily.
• 4:51
  But, uh, OMERS Ventures in general, give us the, um, the overview. Yeah. Of course. Um, so if you, if anybody here is Canadian, you may know of OMERS because it's one of the, the biggest pension funds in Canada.
• 5:05
  Um, and they have a, you know, a lot of different types of assets, um, in the portfolio, of which venture is one of them.
• 5:13
  So I work for OMERS Ventures and, uh, you know, we have about a billion to invest across three geos. So we invest out of Canada, out of the UK, and then here in the Bay Area.
• 5:24
  And each team is extremely different and was built up, um, to sort of model the, the needs of that specific geo. Um, so within the Bay Area, we, we invest in, in four areas.
• 5:35
  Um, digital health, insurance, proptech, and B2B SaaS, um, because, you know, you gotta invest in B2B SaaS if you're out here. But digital health is, is the, the team that, that I'm on.
• 5:47
  Um, and I've been really fortunate to get to kind of help us figure out what strategy we wanna proceed with.
• 5:53
  And, um, my, uh, [notification sound] my boss who runs the fund out here in the US is a guy called Michael Yang, who comes from Comcast Ventures.
• 6:00
  [notification sound] And, um, those of you who have been in digital health for a long time will probably know that Comcast, um, was kind of the most innovative company for a while on the employer benefit side, which is kind of shocking [laughs]
• 6:14
  for a, a juggernaut, you know, n- not exactly known for innovation. But for a long time was the company that if you were in digital health, that you'd wanna get in front of 'cause they were taking the, the bets.
• 6:25
  Um, and so Michael was, was a participant in that, um-Very much in the middle of it, and that's how I got to know him. And so when he had a role come open and asked me if I was interested, it was, it was a no-brainer.
• 6:38
  How big is that health tech, uh, team and focus for OMERS? You said that's, uh, one piece of the San Francisco, um, geo. It's a big focus, um, because of our, you know, the fact that we only invest across four areas.
• 6:52
  Um, and then the team is myself and Michael, and then we're bringing on a third person. So we are, we are a small and lean team.
• 7:01
  [laughs] Um, the strategy that we have that, that may be somewhat differentiated from other funds is that we go really heads down into one theme within digital health for about six months, and at the end of that process, we, we look to, to make an investment.
• 7:16
  So the goal is to, you know, have a meeting with the founder and have already done months of, months of homework so that the questions that we ask might be less high level and, and more kind of in the weeds, and that we, you know, feel like we actually know a little bit, like, enough to be dangerous, um, on that topic.
• 7:33
  So that's how we're doing things and- Oh. If everyone can, uh, mute themselves, that would be awesome. I will. Um, my apologies there. No worries.
• 7:51
  Got it. Uh, how unique... I was just, y- you know, that strategy seems like one that was tailor-made for someone with your skill set.
• 7:59
  I, I, I'm sure you love that, that research focus and that, um, like, uh, how unique is that in the market in your mind? It's, um, it's definitely- Mm... you know, not entirely unique.
• 8:11
  I see, I see other funds doing that, and I think there's a pressure to do it now more than ever because there's so much competition and, and how do you sort of distinguish yourself from other funds?
• 8:22
  Um, so I think it's getting more and more challenging to be a, a super generalist that just sees everything and kind of invests, you know, across the board.
• 8:31
  Um, I think there's been more of a focus, um, at least from what I've seen, in just, like, deep specialization because founders from, from, you know, or a lot of founders wanna work with VCs who actually kind of get what they're doing, um, and have, uh, some, some basis of, of knowledge, and I think that's, that's good, and that's how it should be.
• 8:51
  Um, so again, not unique, but, um, but I, I like it. It appeals to me.
• 8:56
  Um, I, I'm a big fan of doing the research and, you know, making the calls and, you know, if we're looking at a space like mental health, it doesn't just mean meeting with companies. It means talking to therapists.
• 9:07
  It means talking to health plans. It means talking to patients. It's everybody within the industry.
• 9:12
  And so, you know, I might walk up to a, a meeting with a founder and have a viewpoint based on, you know, talking to 20 people with substance use disorders, um, who are patients, like, living with this condition versus just, like, having looked at, like, a high level kind of market map or something like that.
• 9:29
  Um, and I think, I think that's appreciated. Um, you know, it may very much depend on the, on the personality of the founder, but, you know, that's, that's kind of my, the way that I like to do things.
• 9:39
  Um, oh, I just got a question about stage. Um, thanks for asking. It's, um, A, B, and C, and we, we do a little bit of seed as well. That's a good segue into talking about your, your personal focus.
• 9:52
  Uh, I know you've written a fair amount on, uh, your Substack about, uh, women's health and about behavioral health and how even though money is pouring into digital health, there are still these big gaps in, in access, big gaps in, in care.
• 10:07
  Um, and so I wonder if you could just take each of those, since you have done all of this research. Let's start with behavioral health, and then we can talk about women's health.
• 10:15
  Um, and maybe you could outline what you see as the biggest market gaps, uh, that maybe even folks on this call might be working towards filling, uh, or that startups in general are, are trying to address.
• 10:26
  So behavioral health, where do you see the biggest gaps? Um, I see the biggest gaps in behavioral health as everything.
• 10:34
  [laughs] I think, um, you know, unless you're, like, a very wealthy, you know, professional, uh, living in a, a, a major city who's got tons of time to spend hours going on Psychology Today, um, finding potential therapists, emailing them, and getting, you know, told by nine out of 10 that they don't have space, um, you are underserved by the current system.
• 10:57
  Um, so I, I don't think that, you know, the, the funding that has gone in, um, to mental health should mean that we all just back away and say, "Oh, it's overdone. It's crowded."
• 11:06
  Um, you know, there's, there's small gaps and big gaps, but, like, across the board, I think we need to invest s- so much more.
• 11:15
  I mean, we're talking about a deficit of decades, um, of investment into, into mental health, both in the private and public sector.
• 11:23
  So the little bit that we've done in the past year because we've realized that with COVID that it's actually a huge problem doesn't even scratch the surface for me.
• 11:32
  Um, so, you know, I'm, I can, I plan to, to dig in here because I haven't seen any area yet where I've said, "We've done a good job." [laughs] Sure.
• 11:41
  Um [laughs] On an optimistic side, what, what types of, uh, companies are actually getting you excited in terms of, of moving the needle, whether it's on access or, uh, quality? Yeah.
• 11:53
  Um, I actually, you know, having spent a lot of time here, I, I have a particular affinity for some of the companies that are more specialized, and they treat, um, a specific condition.
• 12:04
  Um, I'm particularly interested in more severe mental illness because I think that is the most underserved.
• 12:11
  Um, so companies like Equip in the eating disorder space, like NoCD that focuses on OCD, um, I think those are, in my mind, um, standouts, uh, from the, the current batch of, of companies because there are...
• 12:26
  You know, when you look atProviders across the country, there are so few, um, that are trained to even be able to effectively manage these conditions.
• 12:34
  So i- yeah, we need these companies both to be administrating, administering care and hiring a lot of these folks, but then at the same time doing the training so that the next generation has many more, more, more resources available to them.
• 12:48
  So I like that batch of companies, um, in particular, but I also, um, am spending a lot of time in the substance use area, um, trying to understand kind of what some of the great businesses are there.
• 13:00
  Um, also kids and teens, um, we've only recently seen e- any investment going towards companies that specialize in, in young adult and pediatric mental health, but the, the numbers are just staggering.
• 13:14
  And, uh, we know that if you can catch, um, a disease before the age of 14 and, and treat it, that the outcomes are way better than just focusing on adults. So I think those businesses as well.
• 13:26
  Um, and if I had a sort of question that I'm...
• 13:29
  I'll share with you just kind of the question that I'm, I'm mulling in my mind with those companies, and that's, you know, what's the role of the school and are we gonna start to see digital health for the first time, um, think about kind of a new, a new kind of go-to-market strategy around schools?
• 13:44
  Um, typically been the purview of, of ed tech, but I wouldn't be surprised to see kinda digital health going in that direction too.
• 13:51
  Yeah, I, I, I've had the same question myself and it's fascinating to see the school, uh, in some places start to become a, a node of care, a, a central, uh, place for health records and health, um, uh, just, just healthcare in general a- and really elevating the role of the school nurse even who really understands the student, understands their social determinants of health and, uh, just thinking of them more holistically.
• 14:20
  Uh, let's move on to your focus in women's health. You've written extensively on this, uh, also an area that has been talked about quite a bit over the last year, but, uh, needs, uh, massive more investment.
• 14:33
  So if you could characterize kind of some of the areas that you think there are significant gaps or where there are opportunities for startups to step into some of those. Um, absolutely.
• 14:44
  So having just had a baby, um, this, this one is- Congratulations... pretty personal to me. Thank you. Um, I was shocked by how awful it was.
• 14:53
  [laughs] It was a completely different experience than I would have had in the UK had I had my baby there.
• 14:59
  I mean, it's like I had a really good experience relative to, I think, a lot of, a lot of mothers and it was still just shocking.
• 15:08
  I mean, they send you home with a baby in this country and they don't check in on you for weeks.
• 15:13
  I didn't get-- I didn't see anybody until it was six weeks after I'd given birth, and by that point, by the way, this is when most postpartum complications happen, so we just don't catch them.
• 15:23
  And as a result, we have a maternal mortality rate in the US on par with Latvia and Oman. I mean, seriously, like it's just so bad.
• 15:33
  Um, and a lot of it is just the way that payment works, like the, the OBs are just not incentivized, unfortunately, to do this, this postpartum care, even prepartum.
• 15:43
  There are huge limitations because the way that they're all paid is retroactive, retroactive, so after the baby's born, then they get kind of a bundled payment. So it's just, yeah, it's a complete mess. Um,
• 15:56
  so much to do, um, and so many more investments that, that could be made in this space.
• 16:01
  And I hon- if-- I think if we'd had more women, like frankly, in digital health for the past ten years and more female investors, we probably would have done a lot of this sooner than we did.
• 16:13
  Um, I used to hear when I was in journalism all the time from, from male VCs that like they would, you know, meet with a women's health company and then they would go and talk to their wives about it.
• 16:23
  And I'm like, "Seriously? Like, that's how you see like all women, like being represented by the experience of your wife?
• 16:31
  Like, you know, you guys need to do [laughs] a lot more than that because you're not catching the diversity of experiences faced by- Sure... faced by women in this country." So, um, yeah, I mean, just, yeah.
• 16:44
  I-- as you can tell, I have strong opinions about this. Yeah. I wrote about it in my, in my newsletter.
• 16:49
  Um, and, uh, you know, I, I think there's great people doing incredible work and I'm so grateful to the, you know, especially the nurses, and my OB was, um, incredible.
• 16:58
  And I, I think that those people are just phenomenal. They're heroes, but they're working in a, an incredibly broken system, and they're doing the best they can.
• 17:08
  Are there other areas of women's health that are, are particularly exciting to you right now, um, beyond prenatal, postnatal care, um, that you're, you're doing research in? Yeah.
• 17:19
  We, um, we did make an investment, which I'm excited to share with you guys when it's all done. [laughs] Um, so I'll update you. But I think the thing that I'm, I'm excited about is, um, a) community.
• 17:30
  Um, so how do we as, you know, new mothers, how do we as women going through menopause, as women going through cardiovascular disease and, and anything else that happens to us in our healthcare journey, connect with other patients who've been through it?
• 17:45
  Um, in the pregnancy use case, which I'll kind of double click on again because it's so top of mind for me, um, I felt like the support of the other women that I had in my life who were also moms was just completely invaluable, and yet so much of this happens today on Facebook, um, which I think is the wrong place for it.
• 18:04
  Mm. So, um, I think community is gonna be a big area in women's health. Um, and then I also think that, you know, the role of the midwife has been overlooked.
• 18:16
  Um, in other countries outside of the US, midwives are both kind of more common, um, there's a lot more midwives, and they, they have a much more central role in the, in the birthing process.
• 18:27
  And so-You know, not the right thing for all women, but f- but for those who could benefit from that kind of care, I think midwives, doulas, lactation consultants, all these people are, are so important.
• 18:39
  And so how do you kind of leverage this group, um, and make it more affordable? Because many of these folks are not covered by insurance. Um, so I think that's the other big opportunity. Those are great points.
• 18:50
  Uh, we've got a number of people on this call who are working in either the be- behavioral health space or the women's he- women's health space, and so I'd love to hear your thoughts.
• 18:59
  Uh, drop your questions in the chat so that we can start bringing you into this conversation as well. I wanna hear your voices.
• 19:06
  Um, I wanna go back to something you said about Omers, uh, having its office in Canada, uh, you know, being, um, rooted in Canada and the UK as well, and which, which I, I assume gives the company a, this global focus, this understanding of, you know, what can we learn from, um, our investments in the UK and bring that over to Canada, et cetera.
• 19:28
  That's, uh, been part of StartUp Health's, uh, ethos and thesis from the very beginning, this belief that we can really, uh, have leapfrog progress when we, when we learn from one another as global citizens.
• 19:39
  So I wonder if you could speak to the importance of that and kind of how that plays into your, your thinking.
• 19:44
  And you've already sort of talked about, hey, they use midwives, uh, differently in the UK and the, in the United States. You know, how is that cultivated and how important is that? Yeah.
• 19:54
  Um, well, at a high level, I think we can, we can be humble enough here in the US to learn from other countries.
• 19:59
  Um, so I think, you know, when I go to the UK and I meet with startups there, I'm, I'm, I'm often amazed by, you know, the level of, of progress they're making in certain areas, and the things that the system is enabling them to do, um, that, that we don't really have kind of any support for here.
• 20:18
  Um, so, you know, just learning from, from other, other folks in other, you know, parts of the world and seeing what they're doing right, and then how do we do that here. Um, so definitely that's a part of it.
• 20:29
  And then, you know, we've seen in digital health, um, companies come from other geos and move into the US and do very well here.
• 20:37
  So, you know, just to use a few examples from the UK, look at Calm, look at Quit Genius, um, these are businesses that I think ca- came here and just, like, blew the competition out of the water.
• 20:49
  Um, so, you know, you can certainly be successful with that strategy, um, but it does lead to some big questions that startups have to answer. You know, who, who are your investors? Do they have that global focus?
• 21:01
  And then, you know, do you stay where you are and send out kind of a, a GM or someone like that to build your, your team in this other geo, or do you make the jump yourself, and, and how do you kind of structure your team?
• 21:13
  Um, so I don't claim to have the answer for any of that, 'cause I think for, for every business it might be different.
• 21:19
  Um, and it, it just very much depends on, you know, who you're selling to and, and who your customers are.
• 21:24
  But, um, it's one that I think about all the time, and I, I ask startups whenever I meet them, um, if they are located abroad and have plans to come here to the US. That's great.
• 21:36
  Uh, let's move to some questions in the chat. I wanna, I wanna call on Anne Wanlund from Canopy. Anne, if you could come off of mute, uh, explain what you've built, uh, what you're doing, and ask your question.
• 21:49
  Well, I just-- You may have seen me just nodding to literally everything you said because, uh, first of all, congratulations on your new baby. I'm also a new mom, and that's what motivated me to start Canopy.
• 22:01
  Um, and so we are a digital mental health company focused on the perinatal period. So our ideal situation is kind of universal maternal mental health where it's just a standard part of pre and postpartum care.
• 22:16
  Actually, my co-founder is based in the UK, so very interesting, yeah, uh, differences, and totally agree, the kind of health visitor approach, so, so different.
• 22:26
  Anyway, just, like, everything you've said is super, um, yeah, interesting and, and resonates so much.
• 22:32
  But one thing that we're, that-- one of the many things that you said that, that really resonates is that for us, you know, providers and health systems really are an important piece of the puzzle because they're the ones interfacing with moms at these really vulnerable moments where, you know, moms are trusting kind of what they're being heard and, oh, told.
• 22:54
  Um, but you're totally right. Like, except for a very small sliver of, you know, health systems and hospitals that bear risk, you know, they're not incentivized to improve outcomes for moms.
• 23:08
  And we, we know that, you know, depression and anxiety are linked to physical, you know, um, physical issues as well. Like, very, very clear. The research is so clear on that.
• 23:19
  So I was just wondering, I mean, as you've been thinking about this and the misaligned in- incentives, especially for, you know, providers and OBs, health systems, hospitals, do you have any kind of thoughts or, or like, what are you kind of thinking about that?
• 23:35
  Yeah, it's a great question. I'm just gonna, um, can everybody, um, do a little exercise with me where you raise your hand?
• 23:42
  So I'm gonna ask a question, and that question is, who should be the provider most responsible for a pregnant mom and a, a new mom's, um, mental health care? Do you think it should be the, A, the OBGYN?
• 23:59
  Do you think it should be, B, the pediatrician, um, of the, of the child that is, is at some point born? Or do you think it should be, C, the primary care physician? So who wants to raise their hand for the OBGYN?
• 24:18
  Okay. A few. Who do you-- who wants to raise their hand for the child's pediatrician? [laughs] Um, and what about the primary care doc?Okay, a lot of PCP supporters.
• 24:35
  So, um, the current standard of care in the US is, is actually it's the pediatrician that is, uh- That's right...
• 24:42
  most responsible for this, and it's, uh, in the form of a survey that's often given to a new mom where you're asked questions about your, uh, your mental health mostly. Are you feeling, you know, thoughts of despair?
• 24:56
  Are you considering killing yourself? And by the way, you have to do this in the pediatrician's office in front of your baby and your, and your partner.
• 25:03
  Um, so I, I see that some people have voted pediatrician, but I, I have some problems with that. [laughs] Um, [laughs]
• 25:11
  having myself done that, and I, I did not have anxiety and depression, um, and I'm very fortunate, um, to have not had that.
• 25:17
  But in, for me, it sent a very bad message that, you know, while I'm in, at an appointment to talk about the health of my child, I'm being asked about myself, but it felt like I was being asked about myself as kind of a,
• 25:30
  a checklist item, um, that was a second order, like, effect of the visit because the pediatrician has somehow, like, stumbled upon this as, like, the thing that they now have to manage.
• 25:41
  Um, so you know, uh, that doesn't make any sense to me.
• 25:45
  I think it should be the, the physician that's responsible for the mom that is also responsible for their mental health, and there needs to be some kind of s- you know, process baked into our current system where women a-are asked about this and have their own set of resources separate from their child and separate from their family, um, so that they can be open and honest about what, what they're going through, and that doesn't exist.
• 26:10
  So I would love to see, um, you know, with your business if, if you are interested in tackling that. If you are tackling that, like, definitely reach out. Um, um, but yeah.
• 26:20
  I mean, to your point about, you know, these amazing providers, like, there are huge limitations, um, in this system, and they do the best they can, but it's things like that bundled payment that I talked about that makes it very, very challenging for them to show up in the ways that they wanna show up.
• 26:36
  And I think many of them would love to do multiple visits in that first week. And in other countries, we even visit women, um, in the home, and they see what the home environment looks like. We don't do that in the US.
• 26:46
  So, you know, I'm sure that, that these incredible providers would love to do it, but we have to figure out a way to, to get them paid to do it. Very nice. Thanks for the question, Anne.
• 26:59
  And, uh, Christy, I love that the journalist is coming out with the on-the-fly research. Um, and I think very telling that people were pretty split.
• 27:07
  Uh, there's a lot of just lack of clarity, lack of understanding who does what. Um, I think, I think very, very interesting. Um, I wanna go to a question from in recovery.
• 27:19
  I've got one q- uh, question from two folks in recovery. So maybe David Sarabia, founder, can wrap those up and, and c-come off mute and ask them. Hey, sorry. I was turning off the air conditioner. It's too loud.
• 27:34
  Um, hey, how are you? Good to meet you. Thanks so much for, for this session. And, um, just first of all, I wanna commend you on your approach. I think it's super important that you're
• 27:44
  actually giving a shit about the spaces that you're, that you're looking to invest in.
• 27:48
  It's, it's so rare because, uh, you know, we, we talk to VCs and they, they just claim to be impact investors, or they claim to be this or that and, and they just kind of scratch the surface of, of, let's say, even substance use disorder, which is so, so complex.
• 28:02
  Um, having lived it myself, so in recovery, just in a nutshell, we're, uh, we're helping providers digitize.
• 28:08
  Uh, we really feel that, that there's a big need for, for the actual care providers, the actual nurses and, and, and staff to, to be equipped with better technology, as you were talking about with, with the, uh, with your experience, uh, having a baby, which congratulations.
• 28:23
  Um, my, my question is, you know, how do you see the, this trend that, you know, we, we-- I, I see that there's obviously a big need for, for, for better access to care.
• 28:33
  Uh, but a lot of, a lot of our peers, let's say, in the space, in the, in the, in the addiction tech space, are focused on replacing completely the need for, let's say, going to treatment, going to an inpatient stay where it's super important for certain people that have a really severe case of, of substance use disorder to actually disconnect and go.
• 28:54
  Um, what's your take on that? And like, you know, you know, mo-most of the investments that we see are, are going towards that direction, are going towards that hybrid model of tech/provider.
• 29:03
  Um, you know, I just w-wanna kinda get, get a sense of, of wha- of where your mind is there. Yeah. Um, so I think there's, uh, multiple parts of that question.
• 29:13
  Um, firstly, I'll say that when, you know, we, we spoke to a lot of patients who were in recovery, um, and it's oftentimes a, a lifelong journey.
• 29:23
  Um, I asked about some of these virtual-only models and, you know, a lot of them, a lot of folks said, "Well, yeah.
• 29:29
  I mean, you know, we get this notion around stigma, and this, this could seem like a, a safe place for some people." But they also...
• 29:37
  I, I heard across the board that they felt like it was just a huge risk, um, to, you know, go with a startup, go with a, a provider that they don't know because it's a, it's a matter of life or death for a lot of these patients.
• 29:51
  And so the, the change was, you know, what if this new, new provider who wasn't meeting them in person, um, you know, didn't get the full story and then put them on a medication that was not correct, and what, and what would happen there?
• 30:03
  And it was just, like, incredible fear of, like, what that change would bring.
• 30:07
  So a lot of people were willing to drive hours out of their way to see the provider that they had a relationship with because it was just worth it to them.
• 30:17
  Um, and so, you know, uh, I took that feedback seriously, and ev-everybody's different, so maybe if we had talked to a, a different set of patients, I would have heard something else.
• 30:27
  But that's what I heard from, you know, the, the group that, that I talked to. So I'll share that I have that, that bias from just hearing that patient perspective over and over.
• 30:37
  And then to your question of, you know-Virtual only versus kind of brick-and-mortar, and is there a need for inpatient? I think it just depends on, on the condition. Um, you know, on the...
• 30:49
  You-- there are some areas where I've seen a lot of money go into kind of inpatient and residential and have that sort of pushed on people because it's very lucrative, um, but may not be the right thing, and in fact, virtual is, is could be a better alternative all around.
• 31:03
  Um, and you can see the benefit to it, um, when, you know, virtual could allow someone to stay in their home environment and perhaps experience a kind of treatment that's more collaborative with the people in their life.
• 31:14
  But for other conditions and, and other patients, it's very important that they have that experience of, of inpatient. And I know that my fund is not...
• 31:22
  You know, we're not, um, fixated on virtual only because it scales faster. Like, we just don't think that way.
• 31:29
  You know, if y- if, if the problem requires a services-heavy approach, and that's what the data tells us and that's what patients are telling us, then we will, we'll invest in that, um, whatever is, you know, the, the best thing and the right thing in that specific case.
• 31:44
  Yeah, really meeting people where they're at. I, I, I love that approach a lot. Yeah, I'd love to, I'd love to connect after the call. It's... It'd be really great to, to show you what we're building. Great.
• 31:52
  Appreciate the question, David. I'll share my email with everyone. Thank you so much. Awesome. Thanks, David. A lightning round question for you from Vitaly from Pig Pug. I'll just say it from the chat.
• 32:01
  Do you invest in startups that have hardware, uh, versus software? Um, we're open to it.
• 32:08
  Um, I, I, uh, have like a, I guess like not as much experience with hardware, and I know some investors have some heartburn around it, but open to it. Um, I think it would be a, a case-by-case thing.
• 32:20
  But, um, yeah, definitely if you're working on some hardware, um, feel free to reach out. Cool. Um, okay. And then another question from Robbie, uh, Bustami from Biotics AI.
• 32:32
  Robbie, why don't you come off mute and, uh, explain what you do and ask your question? Sure. Hi, Christine. Yeah, thank you so much for, uh, taking the time to talk to us.
• 32:41
  And, um, yeah, been following your work for some time and, uh, really appreciate everything you've been doing in the space. Um, so I'm the CEO of Biotics AI.
• 32:49
  Uh, we have built an AI platform to, uh, help, uh, to help facilitate, uh, care for, uh, patients, uh, going through prenatal care.
• 32:58
  Um, my question is specifically around, um, some of the, uh, problems in communication that we've noticed within prenatal care. Uh, so patients,
• 33:08
  uh, going-- So pregnant mothers interface with a multitude of different types of healthcare professionals, uh, as you mentioned, you know, midwives.
• 33:14
  Um, but you know, you know, there's sonographers, obstetricians, it could be, uh, MFMs, and, you know, and then there's a lot of variability between all of that, depending if they're high risk or low risk and, um, so on.
• 33:25
  But a big problem we've noticed is, uh, under-communication between, uh, healthcare professionals and patients, uh, and some of the implications that can come with, uh, under-communication.
• 33:35
  Um, so, uh, for example, you know, there, you know, uh, you know, there's variability in, uh, the results of ultrasound screenings, for example, whether it be like measurements and, and so forth. And,
• 33:45
  uh, we've seen some examples where patients, uh, have been given information that isn't a hundred percent correct, and then that has actually led to, uh, further problems and has, has actually exasperated problems both, uh, from a, from a mental perspective, but it's also led to issues such as, uh, high blood pressure in those patients and so forth.
• 34:02
  And, um, and that's actually led to additional problems such as preeclampsia, and, and it's all really stemmed from just like problems in communication and problems in, uh, you know, when it comes to interfacing with, uh, a multitude of different healthcare professionals, um, all kind of, you know, trying to provide the same type of care to, to a patient but with different backgrounds.
• 34:20
  So I was wondering if, if you've seen-- if you've personally kind of looked deep into this, this problem and then if, uh, you know, what your perspective is on here and, and some of the solutions you've actually come across, uh, in addressing this issue.
• 34:32
  Yeah. I, I definitely agree that it's a, it's a big problem, and there's all kinds of variability that, or is not explained to patients.
• 34:41
  And a lot of that is true across not just kind of this maternity area, but healthcare in general, um,
• 34:47
  where physicians take kind of a paternalistic approach, and they're like, "Well, I've seen the data, so you don't need to, and, you know, just do what I tell you to do," [chuckles]
• 34:55
  um, versus kind of being more, um, collaborative with their patients, um, which I think is the, the better model. Um, so I think it's a problem. I mean, I...
• 35:04
  The complication of this area, which I'm sure you've seen, is just that like a lot of women come into it with a very strong philosophy around the type of experience that they want to have.
• 35:14
  Um, and you're told to come up with a birth plan and all this stuff. And in reality, you don't really have too much control about what's gonna happen to you.
• 35:22
  Um, so I had a whole birth plan around a natural delivery, and then I had a breech baby. And I-- my OB was... came, [chuckles] like into the room.
• 35:33
  I remember she had like printed out like stacks of research, and she was like, "Okay, here's a study about why, you know, it's really unsafe to, to deliver a breech baby vaginally.
• 35:44
  And here's another one, and here's another study." And was like, just like giving me, you know, data point after data point. And I was like, "Look, like I'm so... You had me at hello. I'm having a C-section.
• 35:55
  Like, you know, don't worry about it. We're good." Um, and she was like, "Oh, phew, you know. Like, I've had to go through this with so many women who just are so fixated on this plan, and they don't know how to adapt."
• 36:07
  And it, it makes sense. I mean, it's an emotional time.
• 36:09
  But I think that just is an example that I've seen a lot of this communication gap and why OBs can have a really tricky time with this group of patients because of that.
• 36:21
  It's just the, the expectations that we all set up around our birth without the sort of willingness to be flexible and the, and the openness to, to seeing the data and having a discussion about what might be the right safe thing.
• 36:36
  Um, and by the way, I'll share that I have a lot of women friends who have gone ahead and done the thing that, you know, they were-Planning to do and wanted to do against the advice of their medical team.
• 36:46
  Um, and, you know, sometimes it's gone fine, and sometimes it hasn't.
• 36:49
  But it's just, it's just, you know, if you, if you spend time with OBs, like, they'll tell you it's just, it's a huge challenge to deal with that, and I'm sure it is in other aspects of healthcare as well, but particularly with, with childbirth.
• 37:03
  Appreciate the q- uh, the question, Robbie.
• 37:05
  I've got a couple more questions in the chat, but I wanna take a quick detour to talk about how your time as a journalist has informed how you look at startups, work with startups, and I wonder if you could just talk to us a little bit about, um, kinda how you think through startup storytelling now.
• 37:25
  How you use your experience as a journalist to maybe counsel startups about how they build their brand, how they, uh, really explain what they're doing. What are some of your sort of top words of wisdom?
• 37:38
  This is a big question. So, so much to say. I'm just gonna be really honest with this crowd, 'cause I, I get the sense that- We love it. We love honesty... you all like this.
• 37:47
  So, um, I get asked a lot about, how do I get my startup in the press? That's like the question I get asked almost every day. [laughs] And to... In my mind, it's always the wrong question.
• 37:59
  Like, if you, if you go at it from, like, how do I promote myself? It's just, you know, it's just, like, it's a non-starter because literally everyone on this call, like, wants that.
• 38:09
  Um, and there's, beyond this call, there's thousands of, you know, there...
• 38:13
  Think about how many digital health startups there are, and think about how many people there are in the news media that write about those startups, and you will see [laughs] it's, you know, there's 10 over here, and there's thousands over here.
• 38:25
  So if you go in with that approach, like, it's, it's a non-starter. Um, the question I wish I was asked was, how can I be helpful to the 10 journalists over here who are doing this job?
• 38:37
  And I did this job for many years, and it's a f- hard job. Like, really, truly it is.
• 38:41
  Like, you are, you know, you're getting a lot of pressure to, like, produce nonstop kind of news, and, you know, it's not just, like, this funding round. It's, it's...
• 38:53
  I had to kind of, you know, I was doing stories where very big, very well-resourced companies were extremely upset about the fact that I was doing them, but that was, that was the job.
• 39:03
  And so, you know, imagine if there were all these people that wanted to support me in doing that job, and how, and what a difference that would've made. Hmm. And there were some.
• 39:12
  Honestly, there were some, and those people I was like, "Oh, my God, I love you." Like, "You are my new best friend," like, you know?
• 39:19
  And, uh, the thing that I cared about when I was a journalist wasn't like, "Let me write about this funding round." The thing I cared about was, like, how do I make healthcare better?
• 39:27
  How do I expose what's going on in the underbelly of this industry to, like, somehow move the needle?
• 39:34
  So the stories that I felt most proud of were the ones where I was like, "Whoa, look at this crazy bill that this patient is, is, has just received that they should not have received." Hmm.
• 39:43
  And, like, I would write about that, and the, and the patients, m- hundreds of thousands could be forgiven overnight, and I would, I would go to bed feeling happy that I had made a difference. Hmm.
• 39:51
  So I think it's just understanding what a journalist is. They're not a marketer. They are, like, they pick this job, and they're getting paid like crap to do the job, and working long hours to, to make something better.
• 40:03
  To, like, you know, many of them feel that they're in the business of accountability. Some of them feel they're in the business of sharing information, and both of those are noble goals.
• 40:13
  So align yourself with that, you know? That's, because that's ultimately, you know, the, the person that, that's where their heart is at. Um, so- How... Yeah. So how do you do that?
• 40:22
  How do you align yourself with that goal, practically speaking? Um, so, you know, uh, I've just told you kind of the, the mentality of the typical journalist.
• 40:32
  So most of them are getting hundreds if not thousands of emails a day from professional kind of PR agencies, and some of them are great, and some of them are not great.
• 40:41
  And the not great ones will buy media lists and then, um, write a paragraph and then put it in Mail Merge and then just hit, like, a button, and that all goes out. So I would get hundreds of those emails a day.
• 40:54
  Um, and most of them were just, like, delete, delete, delete. But then every so often, somebody would come along and they'd be like, "Hey, I'm in, you know, maternal health." Like, "Let me tell you about X, Y, and Z.
• 41:04
  How... Like, I've been learning all these cool things, all these interesting things.
• 41:08
  I would love to just sit down with you for an hour, and, like, I don't need to tell you about my startup, but I would like to tell you about this crazy space that I'm working in.
• 41:16
  And you can call me anytime you want, and, like, I am here." And so, you know, those people- [laughs]...
• 41:21
  I would, I would cherish because they were my, my eyes and ears, and, and they were the people who helped me make sense of all of this PR, you know, that I was being pitched all the time.
• 41:32
  Because, y- you know, your, your reputation's online every single day when you put a post out, and if you're out there saying, "Theranos is the greatest thing since sliced bread," and then it blows up a month later, that's really embarrassing.
• 41:43
  And so you need people who are gonna keep you honest. You need people who are gonna tell you the truth. Um, so, you know, that- [laughs]...
• 41:51
  like, everything, I think that's a better approach and, and one that, that will kind of take you much further. And don't outsource it. Like, it's your job. You're a founder. Like, you- Hmm...
• 42:01
  cannot outsource the public face of your company. Like, this is a thing that when people Google your business is gonna come up.
• 42:07
  So, you know, I, I, I would never, like, give anybody else license to talk about what I'm doing without making sure that that person, like, is 100% aligned with, you know, my business, my goals.
• 42:21
  Like, so that's, those are two things I always say, and, um, if I'm in a- Love that. I, I love that advice, Chrissy, that you can't outsource that messaging.
• 42:30
  Uh, some of that storytelling really has to come from the top, and that authenticity, the, the sincerity of that story has to come from the top. Um, I'm going to ask a couple more questions from the chat.
• 42:44
  We've got, uh, Jim Fang from Fixable. Uh, why don't you come off mute and do your thing?Hey, Chrissy, how's it going? This is a great chat, um, and a, and a topic, um, you know, dear to heart to me.
• 42:57
  Um, and for, for myself, uh, we're Fixflo. We-- We're a pain and prevention platform.
• 43:02
  One of the solutions we have is for pre and postnatal, uh, program, and we help engage with, um, with better, uh, with augmented reality and machine learning to make sure people are doing their programming and rehab properly.
• 43:14
  Um, my question to you is actually a little bit more broad.
• 43:16
  Um, love to hear your feedback from what you've seen within the industries, uh, to be able to-- you were saying change from a, a, you know, i-in the industry of healthcare.
• 43:25
  Do you think products like ours-- I mean, at the end of the day, I'm treating people like you and me, or family members and getting people better, so we're very consumer facing, but the insurance dollars are paying for a lot of these services.
• 43:36
  Do you think the bigger battle for, you know, startups like us is to go direct to, to consumer and really wow them, get them really, really loving the product like what they did at Calm and maybe, um, even Headspace for mental health, um, and then, and then go up the chain and work with the companies now to get adoption through the companies and then maybe some of the insurers?
• 43:54
  Or is it, like, the... Do you think it's more important to-- or hit both ways? Um, it could be [chuckles] a double-edged sword, I guess.
• 44:02
  Um, or, or is it more important to get insurance adoption at the beginning, run pilots, and then get, uh, show the ROI there, and then work your way down? So love this question.
• 44:13
  You would get a different answer from every investor that you ask, but I'm going to try. Exactly. [laughs] Um, so I would go direct to consumer. Reason being, um, there is-- there's nothing to hide. Like, it's...
• 44:25
  Your product is what's on display, so you are gonna be very disciplined as a team to create something that's got an incredible user experience that really resonates, um, with your-- with the patient or the, or the customer.
• 44:41
  Um, and that is a very good thing.
• 44:43
  Plus, I've seen lots of good examples recently of, of companies starting with direct to consumer, um, and then, you know, a few years later they'll go to a health plan and be like, you know, "Here's, like, a bunch, a massive dump of data on, like, all these people that, you know, are technically your members that we've been treating for years, and look at the success that we've been having with them.
• 45:06
  Like, don't you wanna be a part of that?" And to me, that's a very different conversation than like, "Hey, we're a new company. Can we do a pilot?"
• 45:14
  Um, where they might say yes, but then, like, TBD on do they ever pay after that pilot's done.
• 45:21
  And you, you know, it's really hard to find the right advocate within the plan and, um, you can get customized to, like, an inch of your lives and, like, for some businesses that's the right thing to do.
• 45:32
  But, um, I've, I've seen a lot of examples of this kind of D2C and then moving into the, the B2B side recently, where I'm like, "That's the way to go." That's great. Great question, Jim. I appreciate it.
• 45:45
  I think we've got time for one question if we're relatively efficient about it. Peter Arian from Salk, if you could come off mute- Hello. -ask your question. Awesome. Thank you so much, Logan.
• 45:55
  Uh, so at Salk we provide direct to consumer at home STI testing and behavioral health support for Gen Z-ers.
• 46:02
  So our focus is really building a community that's inclusive and sort of destigmatizes sexual health through platforms like TikTok and our podcast.
• 46:11
  Uh, our PrEP kits just got covered by insurance, uh, which is huge for us because, you know, that is something that we really wanna tap into as a lifestyle brand.
• 46:22
  Uh, do you see providers expanding into other at home testing areas based off of our mark-market being sensitive with paying out of pocket?
• 46:32
  It's definitely something that, um, you know, I always think about constantly in the future. Yeah. I do, I do see, um, an expansion into other at home testing.
• 46:43
  Um, you've seen, you know, things like strep, um, be kind of allowed at home done by a consumer. We've seen a lot of it with COVID. We've seen it with urine analysis. Like you said, PrEP as well.
• 46:55
  Um, so I think that is kind of where things are going. It's always gonna happen more slowly than you would think or want. Um,
• 47:04
  and so I've seen companies do some really interesting things around, um, you know, could we, could we get somehow a phlebotomist, like, on the move, like, you know, in a mobile van showing up at people's homes because sometimes you need blood and, um,
• 47:20
  there's an interesting business I just looked at recently that was trying to do kind of a version of, of Truepill but for more the lab space.
• 47:27
  So just making it really easy for telemedicine companies to, to do diagnostic work at the patient's home. Um, and I think that's kind of gonna be a growing investable area as well. Um, so yes, but
• 47:41
  slowly would be my answer. Cool. Thank you. Good stuff. Good stuff. Um, we have just a few remaining minutes. I wanna open it up to the folks on the call to really share a sort of greatest insight from the conversation.
• 47:55
  If there's something that you heard that you'd like to reflect back that was sort of meaningful to you, you can drop that in the chat.
• 48:02
  I may call on a couple people from the chat that we didn't get to hear from, hear their questions, and give them one last opportunity.
• 48:09
  Um, I'll say for myself what two things that I jotted down that I'm gonna go away with, uh, A, is this idea of really, um, doing deep, deep research. You said-- [siren] Oh, apologize.
• 48:22
  That's the, that's the, the Baltimore geo.
• 48:24
  Um, doing deep, deep research is six months of heads down, deep dive, uh, into an area so that when you meet with a startup, um, you're asking some questions that, that maybe they haven't even thought of before.
• 48:38
  And, um, uh, that's inspiring. I think, I, I think things are only getting more complex as we try to, uh, tackle lay-- uh, issues beneath the issues, beneath the issues.
• 48:47
  And then you also mentioned, uh, this idea of just becoming an ally to the folks you're trying to reach in the media, uh, not just trying to receive, receive, receive, but really looking for what you can, what you can bring to somebody.
• 49:00
  Um-Those are my two. I'll jump to Chelsea Rowe, uh, uh, has an insight here. You can come off mute. Okay. Yes. Hi, my name's Chelsea.
• 49:10
  I am the founder of a health tech company that addresses the root cause of chronic health conditions. So it's a platform to... It's mainly women, so insomnia, migraines, digestive issues, insomnia, you name it.
• 49:22
  Um, but yeah, my- the- what I think was interesting is just sharing insights instead of, you know, just always selling your company.
• 49:27
  I th- I spoke to a, a thousand six hundred women in the last year who are really struggling in the healthcare system to find answers, bouncing around to different doctors who, unfortunately, medication is our only answer.
• 49:38
  Um, so yeah, I think just sharing those insights and what's the real pain in the market, I think is, uh, helpful advice, so I appreciate that. Great.
• 49:45
  Yeah, and those women are vulnerable to a lot of, like, scare me stuff. From my, uh, CNBC days, I did some reporting on this.
• 49:52
  So, you know, that could also be, uh, an interesting, you know, kind of theme or, or set of kind of questions that, that you could help a journalist work through. Yeah, I think so.
• 50:02
  I mean, we see where it's like people are just taking all kinds of random supplements that may not necessarily be doing anything or doing all kinds of ad hoc tests, but they have no idea, they're just kind of guessing on everything, right?
• 50:12
  Um, and they just end up wasting all this money and becoming more frustrated. So it's definitely a lot. So thank you. And Natalie Davis, you mind coming off mute and, uh, sharing your insight?
• 50:25
  Uh, hi there, I'm Natalie Davis, a 20-year pediatrician and, uh, the co-founder of Prevent Scripts, where we help primary care providers identify and intervene with their patients that are at risk for diabetes and hypertension, including a remote monitoring, uh, component.
• 50:43
  And, uh, just what you said about call me anytime is what the journalist really needs to hear, is they need expertise, and they have deadlines.
• 50:55
  So, you know, just being available, making yourself available, call me if you need me, um, is the way to go.
• 51:04
  Yeah, and you're a pediatrician, so, so many topics that, that you could weigh in on as well, and there's just always a need for, you know, think about all the storylines around kids and COVID and, you know, so many other things.
• 51:15
  So there's always a need for expertise like yours. And just being in the, being in that flow is good. Like, regardless of whether or not there's a specific mention of your business. Appreciate that, Dr. Davis.
• 51:28
  Uh, we might have time for one more. Uh, we've had great comments coming into chat this session. Really appreciate everyone being, uh, really on it, really interactive this time. Uh, Dr.
• 51:37
  Farooki from, uh, In Recovery, why don't you go ahead and share your thought? Yeah. Hi, Chrissy. I've been a huge fan of yours. Uh, I follow you, Alyssa and Dina on Twitter all the time.
• 51:48
  Um, so constantly been learning from you guys.
• 51:50
  Um, you know, I, uh, I was discussing with a ninth grade teacher friend of mine, uh, who works at a, at a Manhattan high school, and we were talking about how, you know, many of her students are going through substance abuse and depression and, uh, suicide and things of this nature.
• 52:06
  And I really enjoyed that insight of, you know, companies partnering with schools, whether it be middle school, high school, college universities. So really wanna thank you for that. Yeah.
• 52:16
  Um, and wow, it's, it's so sad just thinking about the next generation. All this Facebook news has me really down too.
• 52:23
  I think we all knew it for years, but then seeing it kind of, the effect that it has on teenage girls, it's, um, it's gonna be, you know... I think we made it tricky for the, for that generation, and
• 52:34
  I'm looking forward to having more Gen Z voices too in the flow. Uh, Chrissy, any, uh, uh, gi- give you the last word here. Any final words of wisdom or insight for our, uh, founders on the call?
• 52:49
  Um, my final thing would be, um, you know, having seen now quite a number of kind of pitches on the investing front and a lot of them on the journalism front, it would be to always start with your personal story.
• 53:03
  That should always be the first thing that you share, because then you're getting people's sort of hearts and minds, like, attached to, you know, the why of why have you chosen to do this business, and then talk about your business.
• 53:14
  Like, it's, it's been surprising that not everybody does that, but I think, I think that's how to kind of connect right off the bat. So that's my kind of parting piece of advice. Love it.
• 53:26
  Chrissy, you have given us a ton to think about.
• 53:29
  Really appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule to talk about your, your role, uh, as an investor, but also how your experience as a journalist plays into that.
• 53:38
  Thank you so much for, um, not just sharing with us, but really the work that you're doing to bring more attention and investment to women's health and to behavioral health, uh, there at OMERS Ventures. Thanks, Logan.
• 53:49
  This was a real treat. Um, reach out at any time. [outro music]