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Occultinarium - EP 10 - Ghosts · OCCULTINARIUM

• Lynn: Hello, good night and welcome to the Occultinarium. We are the voices of the Occultinarium and tonight's hosts are... And you know what? Just to continue with the conspiracy theories I pulled a tarot card for this ⁓ weird sound thing. And what I got actually depicts the sound seven wands. That crackling fire. Disclaimer or explanation. So while we were recording this episode, two occasions at the very least where a strange sound was picked up by Amelie's, ⁓ we think Amelie's microphone. Luigi was blamed it at first by yours truly because he was burning and it sounded like candles burning. This sound did not Luigi: Luigi Adriana: Adriana. Amelie: Amelie Lynn: Lynn. Tonight's episode we to ⁓ about ghosts ⁓ apparitions. So wanted to share a little bit of ⁓ our beliefs, what think about it, what we think they are. in the background. get picked up by the recording platform we are using. But was quite an interesting discussion arising from ⁓ So we to keep that discussion in as it was fitting to our episode. Spooky! diving into some cultural aspects of ghosts, maybe a little bit of science and share some ghost stories at the end. as usual also, if you like what you're hearing, just push like button, ⁓ comment, subscribe and if you to support what we're doing, you can also buy us a coffee. Check out the link below. Thanks. ⁓ All right, let's in. So you see us discussing weird things and throwing the blame of why there is a noise, that is because there was a strange noise. But it was apparently Amelie's because later she will mute herself and the noise disappears. And interestingly enough, it happened at occasions later, at least at occasions. Adriana: So. Lynn: What are ghosts, guys? Let's see. Do guys all believe in ghosts? can start there. let's see. Luigi, what ⁓ is You believe! ⁓ I I want believe. ⁓ I can There we go. ⁓ Adriana, what about Luigi: believe. I Lynn: where ghost stories were told. Luigi: I believe Adriana: you Lynn: Back to the podcast. Adriana: To be honest with you, I think that there are so many things ⁓ culturally or something like that we cannot explain. And so when we don't understand something, we deny it, this system of things. ⁓ But I I'm open-minded. I think that everything exists. ⁓ If we believe exists, it's because there is place in reality. ⁓ Lynn: Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Adriana: My personal opinion really, open-minded. ⁓ Lynn: Yeah, open to everything, right? Yeah. Amelie, do you have any opinions? Adriana: Yes. Amelie: Strong opinions. Yes, they do exist. Yeah, it would be very strange if they didn't. I think. Well, I guess there's a lot of people that would say the opposite. But I definitely believe that they do exist. And obviously everything else we can discuss. But yeah, I do believe that they do exist. Lynn: Yeah! Yes! Hmm. Hmm. Mmm. Mm. Thank you. So, well, I'm a mysticist, at heart. So I believe that everything can exist. I'm open to it. And I'm like, maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. And some things, you know, it's difficult for me to not believe in something that I interact with on a daily basis, right? So for my reality. ⁓ for things like obviously, I'm a bit more, yes. Luigi: Are you Lin? Lynn: in my reality exists, but also quite open to the idea that lots of realities exist at the same time and maybe not in all of them, all these beings exist. So I am open to it. As for ghosts, it's like when we say ghosts, like what would you guys define as a ghost? Like I have a theory about Poltergeist and I ⁓ think it's a podcast that I've listened ages ago. So I have no, my brain has no memory sources. It's really good [heavy sarcasm] for the academics amongst us. Adriana: Mm-hmm. Lynn: But that theory ⁓ whatever they were talking about for them, know, many theories out there, but this one I thought really was really interesting ⁓ because were they were sciencing around the poltergeist phenomena. And apparently, like, according to them, I mean, first of all, again, poltergeist officially is known when you have very physical the spooky boohoo with like, you know, the white stuff and the big black eyes like we have as children. Do we think people that have died somehow ⁓ as themselves or echoes or what? What do you guys think ghosts are? Luigi? We'll just go the round. Same round. ⁓ Adriana: you you Lynn: apparitions, we wouldn't say that, but you know, if stuff starts like banging in the walls or, ⁓ you the wardrobe doors go open, you know, so something that is very clear, something changing happening in your home, usually, it seems to be always like in the house, right, always in homes. So that is like the of a poltergeist. ⁓ And it's believed traditionally that is a very strong kind of ⁓ a ghost. Luigi: Yeah Yeah, I mean, it's tricky because I think a lot of things that we explore, experience and believe in sometimes has gained an influence from the culture and the media of the time. You know what I mean? Because I guess what is a ghost, literally, the etymology of the word, what's a ghost? But I think I guess when I hear the word ghost, I easily associate ghost with spirit. Just a personal... Lynn: /phenomenon like some sort of very strong ghost that's usually in the films and the movies it's always evil it wants the family out or or kill the family you know in in Hollywood and often ⁓ in the stories it be an evil spirit who you know is trying to do bad by the people who are living there now because they're jealous or they want to keep the place for themselves or whatnot Luigi: It could be wrong, could be right, who knows. But I don't fully differentiate between them. I guess I experience ghost as a non-earthly presence, ⁓ substance, entity. It's ethereal, therefore, I spiritual. It could be... Adriana: you Lynn: And that often something that turns really, really annoying, not just annoying, but like a really big degree of, know, like people cannot sleep, you know, there's there's just a lot going on. It's really ⁓ bad. And according to this person, they ⁓ they that what they've ⁓ as poltergeists is never Luigi: you know, the ⁓ people that have passed and have gone to the other world, they've gone beyond and somehow they have some contact or some influence on this plane still. I'm not entirely fixated on a this is the way that it is, similar to all of you, I I take it in turns, I explore and I'm open to whatever possibility. But a summary, so that I don't prolong explanation too much, it's purely something that Lynn: something that stays in the house. have recordings of like the families if they move out this phenomenon goes with them. So they started to think that it doesn't have to do with the place but it has to do with the people. And their is a little like linked to what we said earlier that we think that maybe ghosts have to do with feelings and emotions. Luigi: it's ethereal versus something that is physical and therefore it can only be perceived, sometimes possibly even interacted with, via non-conventional means because you would interact, I would interact with you, you know, through Zoom, but through communication, through physical contact and that's not necessarily the same way that I can interact on the situation with a ghost, allegedly. So that's my version. Adriana: . you Lynn: And had like psychological profiles on the family members. ⁓ there was always something with these families that have like poltergeist phenomena in their house. Apparently, there was always something that they went through a big event or had just been going through a big event in their own life. And it was one or two people in the actual family causing the phenomena, not an outside being. So basically ⁓ like So for you it's more like you don't necessarily differentiate between something that from like a dead person's spirit and any kind of spirit in that sense. Did I get that right? Adriana: Okay. ⁓ Luigi: Yeah, yeah, I think so. And like I said, it's a belief and a thought that it's evolving as I learn more about the field and as I understand myself and my experience with the world better, you know, on a day-to-day basis. But right now, I suppose because I work a lot with the principle of, you know, of the Kabbalists, of the Tarot and of the As Above So Below. So in a way, all is one, you know? Adriana: you Lynn: Mm. Hmm. Hmm. Mm-hmm. I, it's many years ago I've, I've, ⁓ I've listened to this or heard this one. But so, so basically the idea is that say, say it's, you know, they've gone through a divorce or something, right? Let's say that. So, and then they have a lot of and they have a lot of anxiety and a lot of maybe, you know, distress and hate toward a person, whatnot. So they have like a cocktail of emotions. And, Mm-hmm. Luigi: So there is less differentiation my part, but that's ⁓ no means me saying that there shouldn't be any differentiation. There can be. I think just easier in my life right now not to differentiate as much. Adriana: you Okay. Lynn: Just... Yeah, just... Yeah, out of curiosity, in... Because language, I think, has a lot to say about definitions or how we define things, what would be the term, like in Italian, if you... Like, is there a difference? Like, what is a ghost when you think like ghost stories or something? What is ghost in Italian? And what would you use as spirit? Fantasma, right? And what do you say as spirit? they may be also very spiritually either aware or just very sensitive and then that influences the world around them. So in a way that sounds like if you're a person like that you could be an amazing mage, like you could be a wizard ⁓ if you're so strong in your emotions that can make cupboards fly open and stuff I mean that's it's like telekinesis at its finest. If you could Luigi: ⁓ yeah. Phantasma. Lynn: if you could channel it, right? But apparently, they cannot. So this was this one theory for them, it's connected to people, not the actual house. usually there's something traumatic happening. And if that I think actually was that even then went to therapy or had some spiritual healing on the person themselves. ⁓ And then the phenomena stopped Luigi: Spirito. Lynn: So that's the language distinction. Luigi: Yeah, but it's interesting because obviously there's the word in English ghost and in Italian phantasma, but in English you also have the word phantom which is similar to phantasma. So that's an interesting thing to reflect on. Lynn: Yeah. ⁓ Fantastic. Fantastic. Yeah. Definitely. Let's maybe circle back to that. Adriana, what about ⁓ How you define, if you define at all? Adriana: year. Okay. but... Lynn: got less when the person got help and it had nothing to do with exorcism or there's an evil spirit we have to drive it out or nothing it was connected to the person. Adriana: difficult to me. It's more like a presence. I know that Luigi say, culturally speaking, we have an influence and a background. We grew up with ⁓ stories of ghosts, know, but ghosts are also, they're not only human, they can be animals as well. They can be pets. ⁓ They can be like ⁓ symbolic beings or Lynn: Mm-hmm. Luigi are you burning something up? Is your house burning? I can hear it. Luigi: mean it's candles. can you hear? Because I was muted. ⁓ Amelie: You Lynn: I can't hear! Luigi: Can you still- wait I'll mute myself, can you still hear it now? Lynn: Is it me? It's the ghost in the machine again. Mm. Amelie: Yeah, I can hear you. Oh, not now. Do you know what? When you were talking, I could hear, like, I can see myself that someone is talking in my microphone, but I was silent. No one was talking in my microphone. So I was just about to ask, did anyone hear me saying something? Because I wasn't. It was just indicating that I was talking, but I wasn't. Adriana: you know, animals, sacred animals. So when we stop the definition of a ghost, because we have visions, we have presence, think, particularly if you are a medium, that I did the course of mediumship as well. So obviously you connect with entities, you know, so entities can be human. Is that? Lynn: We are calling the ghosts in this. Yeah, this episode is haunted. It's great. I love it. It's like, we're just talking. Amelie: Now it's gone. It is! Luigi: But it kind of ⁓ proves your point though, because you were saying that it's not necessarily about an external energy, but the people that are... Yeah, and I think because we've been engaged in these kind of conversations. Yeah. Adriana: souls that didn't transition properly, that means that tied to places or memories or ritual or someone that has unresolved human experiences or know like very ⁓ or violent deaths ⁓ very strong emotions like can the energy of an emotion transcend the Lynn: It's about us. And we are charged with things. Yeah, so we have charged spirits with us anyway, all the time. So if anyone doesn't come out, they're just gonna do it. Adriana: You know, but talking about channeling spirit has been since the beginning of history, you know, because the first ghost in history, registering history, the earliest, it was in the ancient Mesopotamia, you know, and it's the Epic of Gilgamesh around 2100 And it's one of the texts in existence. Lynn: Mmm. Adriana: in like a different dimension, so multi-universes, we feel the presence is because energy, the connection was so strong that we can have glimpses of a multiverse. I don't know. You know, I personally don't know. But it seems culturally we're ghosts as like unfinished Lynn: you ⁓ yeah. Adriana: that the dead are not at peace. we go back to, I don't know if the guilt that the humans feel that an injustice was committed to the person who died, or is the spirit of the dead who needs to be at rest. So the story says that the spirit of Enkidu, who was the best friend of Gilgamesh, returned from the underworld and described that Lynn: Mm. Mm. Hmm. Adriana: business like someone who didn't transcend or didn't pass to a peaceful or cross the tunnel or whatever you wanted to call it to the light that needs the assistance or come to assist us, you know, in order to create some sort of ritual or ⁓ assist the person to give them peace or, know, help them cross over. That it can be ⁓ Lynn: Hmm. Adriana: experience was awful that they were in in darkness, eating dust and more water. his friend went to the priest and they create a beautiful little ritual. They create like a clay figure, you know, ⁓ to put next the Enkidu ⁓ in order to give a companion. a sort of ghost, but we have the relative ghost that someone pass over, we love them so much that we want to feel the presence of our parents or ancestors or children. So where do we stop the definition of a ghost? How can we define exactly what they are? know, ⁓ to me, I think is just term like an umbrella that cover lot of things, but to help him to go in peace and he went in peace. then the story comes with the thing that is the great apropos burial rituals and being remembered by the living and you know so it's like taking care of the disease and they give it the feelings and emotions and how Are the existence of these ghosts more a need for the living, for us to have closure? Psychologically help us to feel that with something unfair or just happened to someone, we can resolve it, you know, we can help them even they are not here anymore. you know, we can perpetuate the happiness and peace if we take care of them. know, 4,000 years ago, we still take care of the emotions and feelings of the departed. And I found that it was beautiful. In Greece and Rome as well, they have another ⁓ of ⁓ the ⁓ dealing with ghosts. was more a So it can be everything. ⁓ As I say, they can be animals, they can be beings, holy beings, can be ghostly presence, are they are here to assist us like guardian angels or ancestor who died or sometimes they're problem to solve, like nearly logical, you know. So there is a philosopher that was Pliny the Younger, who talking about haunted houses, moving to a haunted house where no one wanted to live because people could hear chain spirits appear. so instead of running, the philosopher followed it and grandfather or grandmother, they still with us to support us and to help us. Or there are others that they are in need for us to help them to pass over. it's like another universe, like a whole, you know, another It's like having a family member, the crazy or the good godmother, you know. So, so I don't know. It's like ⁓ everyone has personality and Lynn: Mm. Adriana: he realized that there were human remains in the property. And assuming he properly buried, the ghost disappeared, so he stayed in the house. So yes, it was like another approach, how to resolve an issue, problem that's probably what we have now. And for that we have the paranormal and so on, is to resolve the problem of ghosts. But the romance creates a ritual like Lemuria. Lynn: You Adriana: a reason to exist. So to me, it's very vast. It's a big umbrella as in Español, it's fantasmas or apariciones or espíritus. So there is a little different terms that they can differ a little bit, there's nuance, but it's not something precise, a concise, like definition that you can pinpoint. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Adriana: found that very funny because they through being some midnight on the back, like the ghost to appease the spirits. another beautiful little ritual that give like response or solve a problem about ghost. In Christianity, we have the Holy Ghost, but that is in the... ⁓ Lynn: about you, Amelie? Amelie: Who said that? Lynn: You Amelie: I... always very difficult to explain what you think it is. ⁓ definitely think that if now ghosts exist, which I do believe that they do, I don't think it's just like Casper, the friendly ghost coming and ⁓ I believe it's like this. I do that ghosts... ⁓ Adriana: King James Bible, though it appears the frequent the name of Holy Ghost, but they make a very big difference because it's not a wandering soul. Here the ghost means everything, the divine energy. So again, we go back to the presence of energies and on, divinity, and the Holy Ghost is the of ⁓ the spirits anyway. Amelie: or this kind of things are because of if it's a dead person, for example, I think it's because I don't think all dead people would become ghosts. I think it's really attached to like the energy of the person or the feelings specifically. don't think because energy is something that I believe doesn't die specifically if you have people left here. So Adriana: But medieval Christianity, they still believe in human ghosts, especially souls in the purgatory. So appearing in specific places, asking for people to pray for them is a gate that need to resolve the well-being of the departed. However, in China, Amelie: I do believe that it depends on how you how you were when you were living as well. And and also I think maybe a lot of people are really scared of dying. So maybe there's something happening there. And yeah, I do definitely think it has something to do with certain energy and Adriana: The ghosts have more like a social responsibility connotation and they create a fabulous, beautiful festival that is called the Hungry Ghost Festival. And this Hungry Ghost Festival is on the 15th day of the seventh lunar month, so between August and September in each year, where the gates of the underworld open. It reminds me a lot of the day of the... Amelie: And there's like a frequency and what did I want to say? ⁓ makes me think of Ghostbusters ⁓ some reason, but kind of like ⁓ this plasma thing. know, like it's something that move in the air, but that because we can't actually properly see it. ⁓ Adriana: Okay. dead in Mexico, as well where the worlds ⁓ thinner and thinner, so the ghosts can come into this reality. So, in the Hungry Ghost Festival, there are two different spirits. One is the ancestor that returns peacefully, that you honor, that you celebrate. Lynn: Thank Adriana: you Amelie: but we can feel it. Therefore, real because we can feel it. Like, Wi-Fi ⁓ real. We can't see it, but we use it and it's working. ⁓ had dead relatives, not just my relatives, but others' relatives come in my dreams as well. So I don't think it's necessarily the fact that you see a ghost when you're awake or when you... Adriana: that you give offerings and they are the neglected and forgotten or greedy souls that is called the hungry ghost. So of the tradition is you have washed clothes, don't dry it outside because the ghost can steal them and to get inside to your house. So you wash clothes that day, you don't put it to dry inside to your house. But the festival, Lynn: You Amelie: the inner room, moving books or making you frightened or cold as you walk in. I think it's also the whole thing of like, yeah, uh-oh. Adriana: people that food offerings, they're paper money. And they do public performance and singing and all this entertainment. And it's very funny because the front row has to be empty. That is the front row for the spirits. ghosts are not just for fear. It's a social contract between the living and the dead. It is honoring the dead. Lynn: I feel cold just now. No, did. did I leave the window open? No, ⁓ don't think I did. Amelie: Uh oh. Well, that's a ghost. But yeah, I think like, guess everyone... It's very rare. Well, I don't know. I haven't spoke to all the people in the world, obviously, but I think it's very rare where people say, I don't believe none of that exists. And people that would never been through any kind of like... Lynn: Maybe. Adriana: It's like in Japan, the ghost is called yurei, related to deeply situation. ⁓ we seen that in the Japanese movies, like you like, Amelie, ⁓ that is the yurei are these pale figures with very long black hair with the white clothing, you know. Yeah, that's the yurei. ⁓ Amelie: paranormal things Swedish, the word for a is spöke, which means more of like a spectre or a ghoul. it's kind of... Blinger. Lynn: There's many, but there's many. So there's a very, very rich culture in Japan about ghosts and spirits, yūrei, and there's a parade of ghosts ⁓ in Japan, which also celebrate. And not all of have the long black hair, but they have very, very features. Some of them ones do, ⁓ but it's just different. ⁓ Adriana: Yes. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Amelie: It's kind of cute, think. It's like, it's a little bit cute. In Polish, it would be duch, which is a spirit, which is like a soul. So ducha is a soul. Duch is a spirit. So that would be like a spirit. But then I think the Slavic traditions have a lot of that as well. Adriana: Yeah. Yes, but there is this festival in Japan, it's called the Obon, that's again in August, that the family is welcomed and the ancestors feel at home with lanterns and offerings and the food. And again, it's that family welcome, you know, your loved ones and ancestors that they found so beautiful. So, but there are darker stories as well in Japan. That is the story of Okiku. Amelie: I mean, it sounds... Lynn: Mmm. Yeah, all born. Amelie: intertwined and like old folklore. I wish I knew more about it. But it's not just about ghosts, it's about like all sorts of things, phenomenas they used to believe in and a lot of people still do. So ⁓ torn. Is it a ghoul? Is it a... Adriana: that she was a servant that was roughly accused and they threw her in a well, you know. the spirit remains bound to the well where she died. And see her in the evening washing plates, ⁓ you know, out to the well ⁓ and watch make her chores, you know. And so it's like emotions that never resolved. It's like more going like... Lynn: She broke a plate. They think... yeah. Adriana: Do you believe in poltergeist? Poltergeist? Is poltergeist how you pronounce that? That the poltergeist. So that is another like a rabbit hole between all the paranormal situation, isn't it? Because I don't know a lot. I don't know if you can explain. I think it's when the spirit have the ability to interact with the Lynn: Hold your guys down. Amelie: Yeah. Luigi: Yeah, pull the ghost. Adriana: insight of yourself to resolve the issues than the scary ghosts that ⁓ have employed in. ⁓ Lynn: Yeah, that's a very particular, yeah, it's a particular. Amelie: think Luigi have been sitting on a question for a very long time now. Adriana: and move objects and things like that. Is that the definition for that? Lynn: Yeah, think so. Yeah, Luigi. What did you want to say? I have a good theory. Yeah, no, I have a good theory on that. I've read something about it or watched thing So I can touch upon that a little bit afterwards because that can be quite interesting. It's an interesting thing. As for me, I am very open to what it is. So traditionally, just for the word, I... Luigi: wanted to say two things. The first thing was... because I wanted to get it out of my system. The thing was, you know when you were discussing Adriana earlier on, this whole thing about the veil as well, ⁓ which a very beautiful concept, ⁓ how you girls feel? How do you ghosts feel? Are we ⁓ perhaps perceived as ⁓ from... Lynn: I would think or used to think, you know, ghosts are supposed to be like to do with a dead person, right? So if you're having all these ideas or like, you know, the movies about ghosts, it's usually, you know, like somebody who has died and is appearing again in maybe even the same way that they died or whatever. So we have this idea of these apparitions that are hundreds of years old. Right. So I've never seen apparitions like that. So I have no experience with it. Luigi: the beings that are on the other side of the veil. You know what I mean? Like, twisted, not twisted, but reflected reality. we are somehow channeling beings forces from another realm, another place ⁓ the but ⁓ maybe it's the same, but vice versa. Like, us... ⁓ Lynn: Mmm. Mmm. Yeah. Luigi: doing the most random thing like opening the sink, know, letting the water out in another place in the universe, in another reality, being like, ⁓ what hell was that? You know? Lynn: What I can believe is that I think also like you said Amelie or some of you said it, this connection with emotion how like I think that if when somebody believe or when somebody dies in a very traumatizing event or an event where there's a lot of emotion that maybe some of that splits off and that may be something that Yeah, yeah, when you said "As above, so below" very early on in the episode you alluded a little bit to something there, I also had this thought that, know, as possibility that, you know, I mean, there's there's theories of like mirror worlds and all that, right. Which is, again, a completely an extra the upside down. ⁓ yeah, maybe we just another version of, you know, Adriana: Mm-hmm. Amelie: upside down. Lynn: the living can pick up on and maybe translate translates in their mind or in their awareness that person, ⁓ right? Because I mean, we have all these traditions and all these beliefs in afterlife, example, right? Like a lot of a lot of traditions have this idea that once you die, you go somewhere. If you're you know, going into the ⁓ But you know, but this is, I think that this is something else like we can probably discuss for like an hour or so with other worlds and all that is very interesting. Yeah, yeah. But to kind of wind back to when we all came with our words and definitions of ghosts, because I'm a as a linguist, I just had to dig a bit into that. So for that, mean, for the Adriana: Hmm. Luigi: be continued. Lynn: the faith because science will say you just your body just decomposes and that's it right sometimes but for these ⁓ these traditions that you live on then ⁓ a little bit for me a little bit trickier to think that if somebody has passed on but still is here as well yeah I mean I can that that maybe happened but I'm more into ⁓ I lean more into the then into the direction that it is for the languages that I know, there's, you know, similar to all of you guys' languages, of course, there's different and words. ⁓ for for the English, because we have so many different words that we like throwing around here, like ghosts and spirits and apparitions and phantoms and whatnot and and ghouls. Yeah, are bit more physical, I think. like a memory of a person, like when you shoot a film, you know, when you shoot a movie of something, of somebody, and then that goes in a loop. Not necessarily something that has its own agency, but I don't know. So I differentiate, like with all the names and the words that are, like for me, goes to something that has to do something with somebody who's departed or something that has departed and then spirits. Amelie: Cools. Lynn: But the per definition, ghosts is the definition that is the soul a dead Per dictionary. A ⁓ phantom, that's it. That's what we are, yeah, that's it. A ⁓ phantom, yeah, no. Phantom is something that is apparent to the but not that a substance. Amelie: Well, then that's right. Then we can just quit now and that's it. Okay, that's... Lynn: and so on is something else for me. That can be whatever else. I'm leaning into the direction that maybe it's like some sort of memory or emotion that we somehow pick up on. Maybe. And this whole tradition of mediumship and talking to ghosts or to people who have passed, I'm also leading more into a direction that I think Luigi: There's no need to go any further. Adriana: you Lynn: So it's a bit broader. It can also be something that has to do with like something ⁓ as well. You know, but anyway, something that's apparent to the senses, but not so not any substance. ⁓ An apparition is ⁓ something you you something you cannot explain an unexplained sight, for example, something coming up. Yeah. that we tap into the pool, basically. So if the souls go back into the shared consciousness, and then maybe again, ⁓ we believe in rebirth, and maybe if rebirth exists, right, that a part of them or that goes back, but that we still have an access to the recording or to that soul or to the persona that that soul was in a so-and-so life. And that maybe that is what we tap into. Adriana: Yes. Lynn: And then a spirit is, per definition, a supernatural being or essence. Yeah, so we have we have words for reasons to define stuff. And I did not look up I did not look up specter, actually. So I failed on that one. But they're similar, like, for example, also in in in German the ⁓ most common one is to Geist, which is basically ghost. Right. Adriana: you Lynn: if you believe in that kind of mediumship, right, where you contact things that you define as somebody who has passed. So I think that goes back in the pool and you access the pool and doesn't necessarily mean that they haven't gone on because it would be very sad, right, never pass on. So is ⁓ one ⁓ my about ⁓ them, kind of a recording or something. But And then there's also Gespenst, which is a bit more like something spooky. So a Geist can be anything. And there's also a philosophical definition of Geist, like you're the spirit here, sort of is also called Geist or Zeitgeist is like a word that people know that Zeitgeist, which is not the ghost of the time, right? It's just like the spirit of an era. And then there's also like Fantom, which is the same as Phantom or Phantasm. Adriana: No. Lynn: I don't know, because I think I also... I don't know whether I'm making this up, right? Because in my... Like, I've had a phase or also just... Because obviously ⁓ talk to... Not obviously, but I mean, talk to bears and ⁓ and, you know... And I have had a phase where I was just trying to see whether one of the things that I can do or I'm supposed to do is like this idea of helping... Adriana: you Lynn: So stuff like that. you wanted to say something? Luigi: I looked up actually Spectre earlier on and I think it's connected to the word spectrum. ⁓ But in the context of the paranormal, I suppose, it refers to an entity that is likely to haunt. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Mm-hmm. that deceased that haven't passed on, pass on because this is like one of these tropes or jobs or whatever that some people do. And I'm like, I don't know, it's something that a thing that actually is a thing, right? And ⁓ I would like try and contact whatever define as ghosts and I see things and I would, you know, help them towards the other thing, but I have obviously no proof. Hmm and haunt a haunting. Yeah. Yeah, haunting ghost. Adriana: Okay. Luigi: So I guess it distinguishes itself from the other words in terms of its function. Lynn: like words. ⁓ words. They're ⁓ Well, ⁓ you guys have any, let's say, personal ghost stories or if somebody told you a personal ghost story, like something that somebody has witnessed, if anybody has some story, a story to share, if you can just share one story that you remember. Adriana is nodding her head. Adriana: Hmm. Lynn: I don't know the workings of it. You know, I'm just, you know, I just did things and it's like, okay, like I that's good. ⁓ The went a better place and it's not stuck. It felt kind of like that, like maybe an energy that was like stuck and then got unstuck. But there's no way I can prove any of that. ⁓ Adriana: Yes. Well, I have several ones even since I was a child. yes, but I think that yes. Lynn: Do you have a ghost story to share? So I don't know. I was just like sitting on a bench in a graveyard and then nothing happened. don't know. Yeah, I mean. Let's start with one. Let's go with one. Pick the best. Amelie: They didn't call back. Your interview for the job. They didn't call back. Pick the most scary one. Lynn: No, they did not. mean, sometimes, you know, there's there's things that you've, know, you feel like there's something and I love graveyards. ⁓ love them. They're special. ⁓ they're really nice. Surprise, surprise. Yeah. like, I don't know. ⁓ Go Adriana: always have been extremely sensitive to energies and ⁓ to this presence and so on, but I don't like them. ⁓ I feel comfortable. I had been like spiritual attacks, know, my life turned very badly. So. ⁓ Amelie: Me too. Surprise, surprise. Luigi: also don't know whether or not we need proof, obviously from an academic perspective, suppose, yeah, proof is required, scientific methods and whatnot, but with a lot of the things that we are involved in. Sometimes like, have you ever heard of the saying credendo vidis, which is basically Adriana: Then when I was doing, ⁓ studying the spiritual healing and the energy healing, is a that you have, like, it's all people don't take in like negativities from people. I saw ⁓ like a darkness there and then I felt they came in, ⁓ even my teachers everyone has like five people treating me in order to take that entity out of me. Lynn: Thank Luigi: kind of translates to... go on. ⁓ do want me to say? Yes, need to believe in order to see. And kind of a principle that we live by in our spiritual journeys and practices. Like, none the things that we have experienced, none of the things that we have signed up for are stemming or are rooted foundation. Lynn: It's something with believing. Yeah, something, yeah. Adriana: So to me, it has been like a relationship of get off for me, you know, since I was a child. So I have experiences that once I was in junior, they were playing with a ouija And it was a good Friday and there like a spirit. Lynn: ⁓ yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Luigi: of proof or scientific evidence, I ⁓ dare say, and maybe even argue, that it all stems from a need belief, or a need to believe, rather. Adriana: and it came inside of myself. I couldn't get rid of that. had to go to a lady that was a special ⁓ and so on to tell me to have a, ⁓ I started having like suicidal souls, very and weird things happened, you know. I had stop driving my car because I wanted to kill myself and so on. So this lady gave me the and the, Lynn: mean, I'm unfortunately not very good ⁓ in this. There's a person that I've listened to on a podcast ⁓ who's good ⁓ at But also this entire, like, science is just one of many arts. ⁓ And way that people nowadays believe that science is the max point of truth ⁓ is modern. And it's not actually Luigi: Hahaha. Adriana: where this person was buried and so it was someone who got commit suicide. And she has to do a lot of rituals, something like that to take them out of And I was doing the course, as I say, the spiritual healing and there ⁓ was section of mediumship that we had to attend. And I was seeing the spirits even before people, were saying, ⁓ the spirit here, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I'm not happy with that. Luigi: Mmm. Lynn: what science is supposed to be, what science is. Like this evidence-based stuff is nowadays supposedly, you need all evidence otherwise it's not true. And ⁓ I cannot explain correctly because there was a person and I'm trying to figure out maybe I can find it and drop in the comment or the section below afterwards because they put it very, very nicely with all like the Greek Adriana: Yeah. Here I received several attacks in the middle of the night. I saw a lot of them. Even I felt the presence sitting on my bed and so on. And I had to call my Michael archangel and so on. And they were saying, do nothing and so on. Don't get involved in this anymore. And all these subsides and it got resolved when I became a Reiki master and I like, chilled myself. Lynn: ⁓ skeptics and people who are more into the logic. That's all ⁓ different of seeing things and not necessarily one is higher than the other. ⁓ I failed at explaining it because I just listened to it once and I was like, ⁓ this amazing. Adriana: Mm. Luigi: Mmm. Adriana: I might vibration raise, my life change, call it better local, better living. I start improving my quality of life since I refuse to be a medium or refuse anything to do with these entities or these spirits. So yes, that is my personal experience. Do I believe in them? Luigi: No, no, you didn't. You didn't. I- Lynn: I cannot back it. I have like this brain, you know, because I'm extremely intuitive, but I'm also extremely intellectual. So my, always like, you know, I believe it, but also like that, but can I ⁓ it to myself? ⁓ little bit. ⁓ So I don't need proof proof, but I like to convince myself that things are more likely be true or not. Amelie: you Luigi: No You're like Jekyll and Hyde, basically. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Adriana: I don't think they need me to believe in them or not. I have been tested, have been witnessed, I have been feeling presence inside of myself that is not me, several times. So therefore I prefer not to work with them at all. So I don't do any mediumship. When I treat people Lynn: what I like to ⁓ Amelie: I think it's healthy to, I think it's healthy to question things like that. I'll do it, do it as well. And yeah, even if you believe in something, you know, it's, it's, I think it's healthy to question it and maybe, maybe just maybe you tap into something, you know, no one else has thought of or something that works for you. So there's nothing wrong with that. Lynn: Mm. Luigi: Mm. Lynn: Mm. Luigi: 100 % Adriana: I feel the presence, feel the situation, I feel, as I said to you recently, have a lady who is from Palestine and her grandmother was killed by a sniper Israeli soldier. And I saw it. I saw it and I felt the presence and I said, your grandmother here. I said, it's very weird, but I see, so sorry about that. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Luigi: I guess also because we're talking about the scientific method and research and evidence and proof, but even if we take statistics, isn't it? Like I haven't looked at the statistics. I'm just going based on the people that I met in my life and so forth. The amount of people that will just in a random conversation or at a dinner table when you're catching up, the amount of people that will just tell you, oh yeah, I've experienced this. Yeah, I witnessed that. Yeah, I've... Adriana: She's dead and I feel that she was killed, bullet. So started crying and said to me, yes. And she me this is the situation in Palestine with her grandmother. But I use that more to heal the person, to help them to release that energy, that memory they have, probably attachments, more than treating or talking directly to spirits. Luigi: I perceived this and I couldn't explain it. ⁓ There's a heavy number of people, you know. So just on statistics alone, there's some minor evidence even just there, isn't it, to an extent. Lynn: Thank Adriana: But yeah, talking about the statistics, the statistics says 30 % of humanity believe in ghosts. So yeah, 30 % of humanity believe in ghosts. So one in three, you know, well, one in two get cancer. Yeah, one in two get cancer, one in three believe in ghosts. So I think that 30 % but Lynn: Mm-hmm. Luigi: ⁓ that feels low. Adriana: And that's my personal experience. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Mm. Luigi: I figured it would be higher than that. Lynn: What about you, Amelie? Mm-hmm. Amelie: because the 70 % is in denial. I think my first. You know when you were kids and you have friends and you go into the dark bathroom and look in the mirror and you say Bloody Mary three times? We used to do that quite often. Adriana: It's a big number. You see one in three believe that there is something there related to I think it has ⁓ a great percentage, scientifically talking about science. The scientific community, as I just explained, the scientists, the scientific physicians and so on. Lynn: Ahem. Amelie: And a few times I did see something, but then I don't know, I was quite young and it was fun. So I'm not really sure if it was my imagination or if it actually happened. But I remember once it was just me and my friend. ⁓ ⁓ know, when you just like, there is, there is a moment. Lynn: Mm. Adriana: I think that is like the new religion. People always need to believe in something. So instead of believing in the spiritual, is a product of us. ⁓ science, the only thing that he has created is for the past, 1700s or probably two, three centuries ago, ⁓ relatively a new science. Amelie: when everything is just really quiet and I could feel like something like brushing over my hair and I could see it in the mirror like my hair just went like this and I was like, did you just touch me? And she was like, how could I? Because I'm sitting like standing here and that was like the last time I ever did that. I thought that was really freaky. know it's like, it's really silly. One should not. Lynn: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. hahahaha Adriana: is still or demonstrating things. When you see in the quantum scientific world that the observer change, the observed, the reality that we are experimenting is, you now they ⁓ are and they determine that there are multiverses and situations like that. So we're making progress, we're catching up with the belief. Luigi: Gosh. Amelie: really play around like that, but what do you do when you're bored as a kid, right? Otherwise, I think I've spent a lot of time, like I said before, in cemeteries. I don't really have any specific stories, but I have like scene presences. Like when you're in a cemetery in the middle of the night, I don't, this is the thing. I don't know if it's in your mind or not, but I wasn't there ghost watching. I was just there because... Lynn: ⁓ You gotta tempt the spirits. Adriana: of ancestors of thousands of years ago, know, that aborigines that they have a different dialect or in a semantic, it was differently explained, but the scientific principle was there. So to me, I think they have not catch up with the ghost reality because one of the explanations is something that term they call sleep paralysis. Amelie: It was like me and my friends, just like to hang out and it was not so far away from like my house either. So sometimes we just went into cemeteries because it was like nice and peaceful. And ever so often you did see that kind of shadowy thing, but like Casper, but not so solid like Casper. Just, yeah. Adriana: you Lynn: Yeah. Adriana: is that sleep paralysis is that we're still asleep but we don't realize it. And it's like we paralyzed in the middle of the sleep. So we can see hallucinations and we create realities and we create ghosts. Other explanation the infrasound. So there's the environments that can distort perception. Infrasounds create vibrations Amelie: It's really hard to explain because like you doubt yourself because it's not something that you can explain. I don't know if I think that would be classed as ghosts as well. I had people that I knew or like relatives, like family passed, I had them visiting me in my dreams as well. Which is not as ⁓ Lynn: Mm. Adriana: We perceive humans as feelings of unrest and ⁓ ⁓ and perceptions of some presence that they are there. And ⁓ display that as an infrasound, so a low vibration frequency that creates these patterns. ⁓ Amelie: Weird, because it's a dream, so it's easier to it as, yeah, this happened, okay. You know, do, I'm 100 % that my grandma, she's like my guardian angel kind of, ⁓ you know, and do feel her presence ⁓ every once in while. Adriana: Others say that is carbon monoxide poisoning that we hallucinate, therefore we're hallucinating forms. they say, the human brain anyway is wired to recognize and to recognize faces and recognize human figures everywhere, even a piece of toast. Yes. ⁓ So ⁓ that's typical explanation. Amelie: But I don't know if that has something to do with like her being a ghost or if it's just emotion that I'm projecting that I felt in certain particular like times. ⁓ Lynn: you She's your ancestor, your ancestor spirit, know, who's watching over you, sure. ⁓ Cheese is in a toast. Yes, cheese is a toast. Famous. Amelie: Yeah, so yeah, so I guess she's a spirit, duch, as we said, you know, so yeah, she's the soul. She's my soul, soul grandma. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Adriana: They are more towards accepting that in a culturally, a social culture situation or maybe a psychological situation, the presence of a ghost have a purpose is to help the process of mourning or dealing with death, with unfinished business, with memory, and with very strong emotions that sometimes we cannot deal like guilt or Lynn: What about you, Luigi? With your candlelight? Luigi: I actually, despite my belief, I've actually have not, apart from the connection that I made with whoever was beyond the veil guiding my readings, I have never had like a Ghostbuster, know, Poltergeist, Casper, the friendly ghost, or Ghost, 1990, one of the best ones out there, isn't it? Demi Moore and Whoopi Goldberg. But I never had one of those encounters. Adriana: violence love because they are ghosts related to love as well, you know. So accept is a purpose. They accept that culturally helps the humanity and the community to mourn and to deal with emotions. That's why psychologically as individuals as well, we create this presence because Lynn: You Luigi: I wanted to... I know people might be getting out there like, how dare you wishing for something like that, but I always wanted to interact in that regard, because I have a friend who's incredibly psychic and she interacts, similar to you Adriana, she interacts on a daily basis almost, and I've always wanted to interact on that level, no, I never experienced it. I only experienced what I tend to experience during a channeling and during readings. The only other thing... Adriana: there are unfinished business and human minds, brains, they don't like unfinished business. So creating a presence of a ghost is a conclusion, you know, but there is not proof that the ghost exists. Even if the scientific communicate dedicated to the paranormal, they have their own, you know, like proof that the... Luigi: that gets close to it. As you may know, I worked in quite a lot of End theatres in London as front of house, ⁓ in London Coliseum, one of the biggest theatres that we have in London, and in the Lyceum, where I was based for quite some time, in the for the London Coliseum and the Grand Circle for the Lyceum, particularly the Grand Circle in the Lyceum, there is this ⁓ known fact there's a ghost up there. Adriana: No. But Amelie was mentioning the plasma and the energies and the fluctuations of vibrations and frequencies, they are there. So yes. Amelie: I was just about to say, I mean, they, this whole, because they use, for example, something like recording yourself, like a recorder. Cause if you ever seen, surely you guys have seen these paranormal shows that's been around. The British, the old British ones are great. They are just so funny. ⁓ But they walk around with like, obviously they have cameras set up. Luigi: And there's people that when they leave the theater, keep, when the theater is empty and they cross the stage to get to the stage door by the back and they glance at the Grand Circle. There's a bunch of people that have worked there in the past and still work there now. They keep saying, I've seen something and there's something up there. And I think at the London Colosseum in the balcony, there's always been, it's tricky because there's a lot of Lynn: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Hmm. Amelie: and just to see if there's anything, any kind of strange behavior here and there or anything moving as such. But then also they have recorders to record themselves. So they ask questions like, you know, what is your name? And then it's quiet because they're recording it. And when they're playing it back many times, there's actually answers on the recording. Now, obviously, if you're thinking about Luigi: lights being worked during a show and a performance but I can be certain that there's a shadow shifting around you know in the balcony of the London Colosseum. For many performances nothing harmful, nothing scary but I just see her, I guess I perceive it as her, but I just see her and she just bounces back and forth and around and she crosses the ceiling and she comes through the Adriana: you Amelie: TV shows, you know, that can be quite easily done. But I feel like there's been so many people that have said that they tried to do that, do it themselves. And there's things on the tapes, for example, they have recorded voices when they've been alone. There was nobody around and was this man as well on YouTube. Luigi: the rows at the front, the rows at the back. So that's as much as I witnessed. once... I know... coming to get me. And once had a gathering here at our house here, and one of our guests, we were all in the living room having a chit chat, ⁓ one of guests came to the kitchen where I am right now to collect a glass of water, maybe some more to eat. Amelie: She's behind you. Lynn: Yeah, she's behind you now. Luigi: And they came back petrified because they were like, we were like, are you okay? And they were like, there's something in the kitchen. What do you mean? Like a mouse? I, you know, I try, I put traps and you know, we tried to get them out and it was like, no, no, no, there's, there's someone, there's something in the kitchen. And they were not able to phrase, like they didn't give us much more information other than that there's a presence in there. And I'm like, I mean, Amelie: Don't think he does his videos anymore. He got like a lot of backlash probably, but he built this this recording machine, and he ⁓ went online and he was talking to spirits and ghosts through this machine, electronical, kind of device that he built. And you could really ⁓ hear. Adriana: Thank Lynn: It's a raccoon. Luigi: I never experienced the presence, but it makes sense because of the amount of readings that I do here and the amount of ritual. Maybe I let someone, I let something in, I never, it never gave me that effect, you know, that effect of not panic, but they were like in shock. They were like, there's something in there. And they've come to the house before. So that was the first time that they came back, maybe because they came here alone, who knows, but it was the first time that they came out and went. Amelie: And I think a lot of people just did not believe in it. I don't know what happened to this man, but I'm kind of thinking like, wouldn't that be enough? Do people actually need to have proof of seeing it with their own eyes or would proof of hearing something would be proof enough? Adriana: them. you Amelie: interesting Dunno. Adriana: So you think probably is the own psychic of the person that projects that as the observer of the in a quantum thing if he is the observer he can probably have a psychic a mind so powerful can manifest these kind of things can be an answer as well we don't know isn't it ⁓ Luigi: disbelief almost like, please come with me to the kitchen, I don't want to go in there by myself. So that was my portion of the story. Amelie: It's interesting you mention theatres because that like made me remember the time when I was working at Liberty. And Liberty is like an old department shop, like super expensive department shop. But the whole thing with that shop is really beautiful. Basically what that shop, ⁓ shop. ⁓ you mean the man that built the machine thing? Yeah, it could be. He's just very intuitive. And he turns on this machine as all like electrical with all these things. And basically asks questions or he asks to speak to a specific person or ⁓ he's been talking to a few celebrities as well. I think he's been talking to Adriana: this so ⁓ It's beautiful. Lynn: Thank Amelie: is made out of two battleships. So all the and like the... ⁓ basically ⁓ with ⁓ battleships. And is just so many different stories going on. And then the room that I used to work with, ⁓ one just... ⁓ Just you said, there was a shadow in the corner, which really freaked me out. And then from time to time, I could just feel this like cold... like Michael Jackson a few times as well. And you can hear in the, the, like the, the noises from the machine and all of that is a bit crazy. It's been crazy, but I just find it really interesting because yeah, I don't know. I don't know how it works. And I guess on TV or on online or like this, can always fake a lot of things, but Adriana: Hmm. Amelie: this coldness sometimes. And at first I thought it must be the window because it's really old and the windows are quite old. But it was just not like all the time. If there is a draft, if you stand there, it's normally like all the time, but it was just randomly coming in and out. And I kept seeing her from time to time. And after a while, it just didn't scare me at all. So I used to come in and just say hello to her. This was also like before AI, so he was doing this before we had all of this stuff. I don't remember his name. ⁓ was called Huff something, Huff. And yeah, ⁓ just things that. But ⁓ I don't maybe you're right. Maybe if you really believe in something, you can manifest it yourself. Adriana: Yeah. Luigi: Ha ha. Amelie: for a while, I just like, I made it a thing, I'm like, hello, hello, I'll be with you today. And then everything was fine, but it kind of freaked me out in the beginning, because there's a lot of like, strange corridors and things there as well, and I would not like to spend the night there, that's for sure. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Mm. Amelie: I don't know. It's very... Yes, yes, does leave you with more questions really than answers. Luigi: a lot to reflect on. Lynn: one of those weird people who would like to spend the night in things that are said to be haunted just to see if something happened ⁓ me. ⁓ ⁓ haven't. ⁓ Amelie: So, bye. Adriana: But yeah, that's a haunted place needs a believer to be. It's like, you know, like in the quantum situation, if a tree fall in the forest, there is great noise or needs someone to hear it in order to be because I don't think I think I think it's like you need two to tango, ⁓ you you Luigi: Yes. Amelie: ⁓ if you come to the UK, if you come to the UK, we should all go to Rye and spend a night in a mermaid inn. It's like a really old hotel and is one of her most haunted hotels in the UK. Lynn: Ooh. I'll sign me up. will. I will do it. It's a date. No, no. Adriana can skip it. It's a date. have ⁓ you were talking, ⁓ I remembered another thing that like a thing that actually happened to me because when we started this episode, I was just thinking of somebody else's ghost story that was told to me that I can replicate really poorly, but it's like a proper ghost story. So I really liked it. ⁓ Luigi: Same. a date. ⁓ Adriana: Nobody. You need the person who is the receiver the who experiences the presence of a and that energy that connects to that person. It's my belief that if something wants to communicate, they need someone here in this plane to communicate to. So I understand problem in mediumship relative, the eagerness and the love and the connection. Yes! Lynn: But then while you were talking, I also remembered some things, that weird stuff that has happened to me personally. And so there was this instance when I was 16, 17 years old and I stayed in Norway as an exchange student in this house of a really nice family. And I was in the room of one of the daughters who had moved out. A really nice room and like the, you know, on the roof. Adriana: you can create as was saying that tap into that memory of that energy that's still there and the medium can into that energy. But a haunted place, an abandoned or whatever happened, know, a stranger comes I can feel the presence or we can feel the, before that I was asking you about poltergeist and things like that, you know. So. ⁓ Lynn: I thought like a kind of a roof thing. And there were two weird things that happened there. There no bed. Like I just had a mattress there. And I slept on the ground and I woke up in the middle of the night because the fire alarm in my room was going. And like in Norway, like the fire alarms, you know, these things on the wall, they freaking loud. Like if your neighbour's fire alarm, like your Adriana: What is first, the egg or the chicken? know, what the person who entered into that place predisposed to feel these energies and vibrations ⁓ this entity can be, you know, in their own exist without the need of someone on this plane to relate to. Mm. Lynn: you know, wall-to-wall neighbor, if that fire alarm goes off, you're like up in bed like this. It's really loud. It's really annoying, you know. So the fire alarm woke me up, like with a start. I was just like, what's happening? It's like, you know, and was no smoke. There was nothing in my room. But I was like, so, I mean, just out of sleep, you know, the only thing that I could think of was shit. Everybody's going to wake up. I need to take the alarm off. So I think I. It's the observed and the observer, yeah, always. Amelie: Help but how abouts? Yeah, but how about, cause sometimes there are people, they don't even think about ghosts or nothing like that. And they, let's say they go, they buy this house, you know, and, ⁓ they, ⁓ within them would be like, ⁓ there might be ghosts in here. So they don't think about it at all. And then they start hearing things, seeing things ⁓ specific areas. Lynn: I don't remember. I think I tried to like grab it and just open it or something and like switch it off. That was like my first thought. I didn't think of like smoke because there was none. then it went off. And then I thought like and then I was panicking because I think like I was like maybe I did something wrong. I don't know in my sleep. I know I was thinking like everybody in the house must have woken up. There was like a father. were two kids or like teenagers my age. It's like everybody must have woken up. You know, they must be coming running and in a panic. And I was just like, you know, just put it away. does that exist? Does it happen is the question? Does it ever happen that people who really don't have any baggage go into a place and then stuff happens? That is like my question. So I can't. So Adriana: Yes. Or even worse, why destiny put them there, you know, if that happens? Even if they don't believe in that, why happened that that encounter in the whole universe happened at that time, at that place, in a precise moment and in the circumstances that happened? Was the predisposition of that person, even if was in the subconscious way, that that makes it happen? Or there is really... Amelie: ⁓ Yes. Lynn: Mm. And somehow I fell asleep again. And then I woke up and I was like... Nobody mentioned anything. And I was like super shy at that point, so I wouldn't like go out of my way to be like to ask, hey, did you hear the fire alarm? didn't. I just felt like really weird about it. Like, and I also have no memory of whether I actually put it back on or what happened. But it was so bang, you know, I was like, OK, this was one instance. Adriana: and ⁓ that haunt places that don't need a human presence to be there. you Lynn: And then was really fucking... The second instant was in the same room and had also to do with sound. in that time of my life, I was meditating a lot. So this was before I went into anything very spiritual, magical. I was just in the, want to believe. And I was a pagan. I was all that. But I wasn't really, I was not working with entities or anything. So, but I was practicing meditation often. And this was, think, I'm not sure whether I was meditating or whether I was just writing something, but I was in the middle of the room and there was like a radio stereo thing where I had like a CD playing. And I think it was an Aerosmith CD. It was an Aerosmith CD that I bought. remember the album, but it's the red one with the white. that was playing at a normal level. And I was like three meters away from it ⁓ doing something. And then suddenly, the volume went up like to max and I was also again I like I was like fuck you know everybody's gonna hear and it's gonna be you know my first thought I was like I just ran and I turned it back down and I and my heart was going and I was sweating but not because I thought I mean my first thought was like shit people are gonna know and then I'm like fuck this is creepy also we having the sound again in the microphone when I'm talking about creepy, I hear the sound again. anyway, those the two sound things that I have experienced in the same room. Luigi: I don't want to overanalyze it but I find it very interesting. I do hear the sound now. I don't know where it's coming from but ⁓ Lynn: Mm. ⁓ Amelie: It must be coming from me. What sound is it? Because I can see that I'm talking again, but I'm not talking. Luigi: You know exactly it's a... Lynn: ⁓ it's from you. It's like a shhh, it's a zzzz. As if somebody had like a candle under the microphone or something or some shhh. Or a pfff. No, it's not, it's not. Not anymore. Not anymore. Adriana: Mm. Amelie: I can't hear it myself because I don't have... Luigi: I mean, I- Yeah, it's But... But yeah. Adriana: No, stop. Yeah. Amelie: Because it's not, I can't see, I can't see anyone talking now. But before I did, when you said that you can hear something, I can see my box talking and I did not talk. That's what I'm saying. It could be, yeah, it could be. Yeah, saying hello. Lynn: We stopped, yeah. ⁓ It's your granny. Maybe. Yeah, Luigi. Luigi: to grandmother. But yeah, I didn't want to overanalyze it, but I find it very interesting that both of your, what's the word, paranormal circumstances or episodes were circling around, oh, I don't want anybody to hear it, you know? And almost as if the ghosts or the spirits involved, they wanted you to be heard, to be seen, to be... Lynn: Yeah. That's it. Luigi: coming out. I just found that fascinating. Lynn: you Yeah, I mean, yeah, looking back at it. then, you know, I was like at that age, you know, because I stuff to happen because I was interested in it. But then when it happened, I'm like, OK, and what do I do now? You know, it's like, like, hello. What do you want to say? And then nothing. You know, and I couldn't follow up with it. So, yeah, really cool things happen within the span of like half a year or something in the same place. Luigi: Yeah Lynn: So there was something, I feel there was something there. then a thing that happened very recently, not to me, but I was there. And ⁓ happened Denmark. And there two separate occasions, but it's the same, we believe, or they believe it's the same thing. ⁓ So in I'm going to this lovely place in Fyn. where we do Seid practice and other like Norse magical practices or we've also had drum workshops and stuff so it's a it's at Ingborg if you want to look at that she's doing a lot of great great workshops and they have their own like Danish farm so out there in the garden there's like this little sun house we call it and where we have a little you know a circle and we do rituals there and I believe was this last year I think, last year October if I remember correctly but we were doing like a side thing that is a type of magical oracle practice where you use your voice and you sing and we can talk about I can talk about it in an episode at some point we were doing some exercises and then we're doing it was after I think ⁓ I have this correct me if I'm wrong, but nobody here was there, so nobody can correct me. So I'm just going to tell it as I remember right now. I think it was after our big ritual because we don't use our phones during obviously. And then one of the of my friends there, she took pictures because there was beautiful picture of the full moon and stuff. So she took pictures outside. then when came back in, she came, she showed her friend first, but then she came to me as well. And she's like, look at this. look at his. there was she took she had taken two or three pictures of the same space and it was just and the ⁓ yeah sound is back Amelie but I don't but anyway who is spooky stuff ⁓ yeah yeah spooky ⁓ Amelie: Yeah, I can see it. gonna mute myself just in case if it's ghosts. Like, don't talk. ⁓ Lynn: Yeah, talk. I mean, they're just like, this is important. You know, this is important. So listen up. Yeah, we can't hear. Yeah, it did. Interesting. Picking up something on your side, Amelie. OK. So so she was showing me picture and then she'd taken the same space and it was just her taking a picture from like outside the hut. So you just see like the wall of like the little sun house and a little tree, something ground. Like there was nothing particular there. know, just like. Amelie: When I muted myself, it disappeared. Lynn: that and there was nothing. then two or three seconds later, she took the same picture. Now you see it on the phone when you take it like the same picture. But then there was a shape and like a black shape. And it was in the in the shape of a person, you know, like with a head and with like a body. And, you know, we zoomed in, we zoomed out, we looked at it. Everybody got goosebumps. I was like, OK, this is weird. And, know, I'm, you know, it's like technical person also like yeah, you know, I don't know sometimes, know if you move it too fast But she said she held it still and there was nobody there So none of the people who were there were actually in the area I think there was somebody like to the side somewhere but nobody was in the picture and it was within like just a few seconds so that was like, okay, there's something there and also the the face Play like it was all black. But in the what I had was it seemed Again, we try to see faces, but that was not completely black. That looked like there was some sort of pattern in there that could be a face. And then we talked about this and then they talked with the people there and then they came to some sort of a conclusion idea that there was a person that they know who died, who looks kind of like that with a body shape and everything. they were like, you know, they felt like they had pinpointed it. either way, it was kind of creepy. And then last time I was back there, or they say it happened again. Like in this one, I'm a bit more sceptic because this time they took pictures while we were actually doing something in the actual house there, like in the little sun house. We were like a Seid when we were like kind of moving and dancing and stuff or moving around a circle. And there was one picture. where you can kind of see. So it was dark, right? So even when you take pictures, so they had like this little, you know, blur, like when you have like a long exposure, right? So it was not sharp because it was at night. So there was like a little bit of a blur. But there were some pictures and they like identify. So this person is here and this person was there. This person was there. And then there was one picture where there was this black shape person again between two people, like two of us and between the two. the two people from our group, there was nobody from our group. But there was this black shape again. And then I was like, ah, you know, but maybe, know, maybe it's like just somebody or something leaning at the wall behind or something. So but it's the same place again and the same thing. And it's like. Adriana: you Lynn: It's very interesting. it's like, quite interesting. So that's what happened to me personally. not ghost ghost story, because we don't really, it wasn't really ghost, it was just something. Apparitions, I guess. But I do a ghost story and I'm going to tell this badly because this is like third degree hearing it or something. So as I remember, it was a friend of me telling it and she... had it from her friend. It happened to her friend, I think. And as far as I remember, it's that they had moved, they just moved into a new house somewhere in the countryside in Norway. like and children, I think a father and think a grandmother lived with them and they'd moved into the house. And there something about that the children, there may be like seven or five or both, like young kids. They started to be like, you know, they were young kids, so they usually like to stay up late and, you know, normally and be like, no, like one more thing, like I want to stay up, blah, blah, in the in the kitchen area. But in this house, they started to be like more like, no, I want to go into bed. I don't want to be here. And then the grownups are like, ⁓ why? You know what's going on? It was like unusual behavior for them. And then they would say that. Adriana: Mm hmm. Lynn: but there's like a man looking through the window ⁓ I don't like him looking at me. And it was like, there's nobody like maybe a neighbour, you know, so they would like look and they didn't, you know, they didn't see. And happened several times and the children were like, no, no, we don't want to be here because the man, there's always man and he's coming and he's looking at us through the window ⁓ and that can't be. there was nothing. And at some point, I because the children had gone outside or something and then they asked them but what what kind of man is it and then the youngest child ⁓ I think maybe five or something maybe even younger don't remember but the youngest child was like yeah yeah no see him I see him at the campfire and he's he sits there sometimes with his friends at the campfire and there but there's campfire in our ⁓ honey, like what are you talking about? There are no people in our garden. But no, no, I see him quite often. He has a campfire there and he talks to his friends. But yeah, I don't really like it. So I'm just leaving. But ⁓ it wasn't, it seem like harmful. It's just like the child didn't want to be there, but it wasn't like threatening or anything. ⁓ So like, this is very, very strange. There's no men and no campfire. And then also had friends and they cleansed the house with sage and whatnot. did all that. then they researched and then they found out that this ⁓ where the house was built used be a battle site and there were soldiers stationed there and I think that child even described that they had helmets and stuff ⁓ and were soldiers stationed there and had like their tents up and that was in the place there and ⁓ apparently were still there. ⁓ Adriana: Okay. So was an imprint, an imprint in the location, geographical imprint. Yes. ⁓ Lynn: Yeah, it seems to be a bit in... Yeah, yeah, yeah, it seems to be like this kind of echo. that's, yeah. that's, yeah. So they wanted the blinds and... Let's have the men look at us, please. Yeah. Adriana: Hahaha Amelie: That's really interesting. do find that children, do, because like, it's very common that children see things that adults don't and I, they're very perceptive, I guess, in such way. Lynn: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Adriana: imaginary friends, you believe in imaginary friends? Lynn: That's also a thing, yeah. Let's also have a complete episode on imaginary friends. It's on the list. It's on the list. Amelie: Yeah. Yeah. That's a, that's a completely different episode. Yes. That hundred percent, hundred percent. That's something that we will talk about, but I'm just, I just feel like children, because children are not brainwashed like we are, well, like adults are thinking like, ⁓ this can't be real. This is not true. They just whatever they see. So they, you know, if they see, ⁓ Adriana: Thanks. You Lynn: Mm. Mm. Yeah. Or whatever they know. Yeah. Amelie: If they see someone by a campfire outside, then they're like, well, you know, man sits there, you know, it's just exactly, it's just really interesting. Lynn: Obviously there is a campfire. Yeah. Yeah. Adriana: I truly believe in the imprints of location of objects, know, even when you can touch an object, even with our tarot cards, you know, they get an energy, you feel the vibration of the cards. So yes, I think it's very, very possible that, you know, that places get an imprint of the energy that what happened there. Yeah. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Mm. Amelie: Ooh! Lynn: Hmm. Yeah, speaking of which, as always, we have ⁓ our tradition with pulling a tarot card ⁓ in in the beginning of the show and revealing at the ⁓ end. And time, pulled the card. He's smiling to himself. What we think it is? Do you think, do you feel like it has to do with what we're talking about somehow? Amelie: You set tarot cards. Luigi: What do we think it is? Adriana: Mmm. Luigi: I do, but... Adriana: I think he has to be a Major Arcana. Luigi: The wish, it's not, ⁓ it can be connected to a major and I think it has to do with what we've been discussing. ⁓ No, no, no, no. Should I just reveal it? It's water, it's cups, yeah. Adriana: I don't want to. Lynn: Is it? Is it a swords? Is it swords? No, no, no, no. Adriana: Okay. No, I think it's water cup. Lynn: What? It's water. Adriana: Yes absolutely yes Amelie: Of it's water. Lynn: Is it the five or the eight? no, it's the queen? The king! ⁓ pulled him. ⁓ yeah, I also pulled him today. ⁓ Luigi: The King of Cups. Adriana: The king. ⁓ wow. Interesting. So what is the definition? Amelie: King of Cops! Luigi: Well, I think it's very relevant because there is that connection to the Scorpio energy, which I was expecting the Death card to show up somehow. And I think it did show up, but in the guise of the King of Cups you know, through its Scorpio energy, suppose. also we were talking about... because, you know, connected to the Scorpio astrological sign through the... Lynn: Mm. Mm-hmm. Hmm. Adriana: Why Scott? Luigi: The astrological correspondence of the king of cups is the sign of Scorpio. ⁓ Adriana: Yes, but why is corporate energy related to today? Luigi: Because I guess in relation to the Major Arcana that represents it, it's represented by the Death card. And I figured that because of our discussion of ghosts and entity, the Death card energy was kind of around us. But also Scorpio, I guess, is a sign as well. Dio's and Handel's. Metamorphosis, transcending, the beyond, etc. Adriana: talk to you. Yeah. Okay. Lynn: Hmm. Yeah, Scorpio. Yeah. Also. Adriana: Okay. Luigi: There's aspects of its house, the 8th house, also related to death itself and the passing and the inheritance aspects of life, I suppose. Also, I remember that we talked a few times about how everything that we've been discussing, know, ghosts and spirits, ⁓ how much of it ⁓ the manifestation of us, ⁓ our intentions or our feelings or even our fears ⁓ manifested. Adriana: Mm-hmm. Lynn: Hmm. Yeah, the emotions, right? Yeah, we're talking about emotions so much. Luigi: And I guess like in that regard, exactly, exactly. And guess in that regard, the King of Cups Definitely. And in that regard, I suppose, the King of Cups would be the manifester of that emotional realm, know, giving in shape. Adriana: Yes. Lynn: I'm gonna call him the ghost king maybe from now on if I remember because that makes so much like with the Scorpio energy and like Scorpio being so much, you know, in the in the other realm already with like all this spiritual death, love and sex, death and power Scorpio. But then with the kings being like the swords or the air rather like the air element is their main thing. And then the king of cups combining Amelie: like it. Luigi: Yeah. Adriana: No, Mmm. Yeah. Lynn: the air with the water with this intuition. feel this is very much just seems like it's this intellectual thing or like just air being the medium where ghosts would appear or apparitions would appear if you do or this cold we feel in the air or just the shadows. It's very airy, right? Yeah. With the emotions. Yeah. Adriana: Yes. Luigi: Yeah, and I think we don't have to identify, yeah, and we don't have to identify the King of Cups with any of us in particular, but as I was reflecting on our conversation, it kind of reminded me of how you described your own experience, Lynn, you know, like the whole, I'm open, you know, it could be anything, but I'm also very much like interrogative. So let me think about this. kind of reminds me of that dynamic, ⁓ the King of Cups is Lynn. Lynn: Mmm. Mm-hmm. Yes, too, that's me. That's right. That's kind of how I started. ⁓ I home. Yeah. Adriana: Yes, I would say that it's like having control of the emotional aspect and, you know, have the reasoning and the intellectual ability to use the intuition to interpret things the spiritual realm. So, yes, I guess I can see it now. Yes. Yes. Lynn: Yeah, it fits very well to the episode. does. That's quite nice. Yeah, it's quite perfect, actually. Was this the second time we had a court card? I think so. We had the Queen of Wands. Yeah, we had the Queen of Wands at some point, one of the first episodes with the Queen of Wands, not with the King of Cups. I think it's the second time we've had a court card. Yeah. Amelie: It's pretty perfect actually. Yeah. Luigi: Yeah, and the kings are- ⁓ maybe. I'm losing track. We should do like a bingo. When you get all of them you win a prize. Lynn: New idea! I'm gonna make a file! I'm gonna make a bingo! Awesome! Luigi: Bing! How to bingo! But I guess all the kings, connect to their higher self as well, so in a way it's in conversation with all this discussion about beyond the veil, presences, and the effect they have on our lives, the effect that we have over their experience in realm, I suppose. Adriana: Yes. Lynn: Hmm Adriana: Mm. Lynn: Awesome! Well, thank you guys for another lovely session about ghosts, apparitions, phantoms and more. If you liked this episode, just leave us a like. We appreciate it. Drop us a comment. Don't feel shy. Subscribe if you're not yet. We upload a new episode every Thursday for the Voices of the Occultinarium and our little side project AmeLynn's Corner of Chaos ⁓ is uploaded every second moonday of the week where we're talking a bit more random things that come to mind but there's usually a little bit of a chaotic thread through it wouldn't you say Amelie. So yeah, I look forward to that and again you like to support our work you can buy us a coffee. We'll split the coffee between the four of us. Amelie: You Lynn: for listening guys ⁓ ⁓ see you in the next and the ghosts thing and the ghost ⁓ that's true. Thank you everybody who was participating even the ones we haven't we didn't see Thank you everybody ⁓ and have good night Luigi: ghosts and the ghosts that were present tonight. Amelie: and the ghost that were talking into my microphone. Luigi: Night! Adriana: Good night.