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Navigating Mental Health and Emotional Bandwidth with Dr. Shahana · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to Authentic Living with Roxanne, a place where we have conscious conversations
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  about things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:12
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Durhaj.
• 0:40
  Hi, everyone.
• 0:40
  It's Roxanne Duro Hodge.
• 0:42
  Thanks for tuning in again to Authentic Living with Roxanne.
• 0:45
  So today I have a colleague that, we share similar backgrounds, but we come at it at a
• 0:50
  different angle.
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  Doctor Shahana is a medical doctor that, specializes around areas about mental
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  well-being and mental health and does a lot of things out on the west end of Canada related to
• 1:04
  mental health with families and individuals.
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  So, doctor Chana, thanks, for coming in again to today to spend some time with us.
• 1:11
  Oh, it's my pleasure.
• 1:13
  Thanks for having me.
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  So tell us a little bit about kind of your foray into kind of dealing with mental health.
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  Obviously, you're bringing a medical background.
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  What got you on that trajectory to want to go more into mental health?
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  When you look at one of the logos that I have, it says doctor, speaker, mother.
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  And that is almost like this bio right in your face of why mental health is important to me,
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  but I always show a slide that has patient right at the bottom corner of that.
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  And the honest answer to your question is really it wasn't until the birth of my first
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  son about 9 years ago that I myself went through postpartum anxiety and OCD and
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  depression and on that mental health didn't become a you problem.
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  It didn't become something that I was just advocating for you, helping you.
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  It became a very real me problem.
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  And I think until things really pinch and I think until really you feel the depths of the
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  despair and really understanding how this is impacting not just your life, but your family's
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  life and your child's life, does this become all too important to say how did I get here?
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  And that was the instrumental question after 12 years of studying, after studying kinesiology,
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  nutrition, medicine obviously, I realized I had learned a lot about disease, a lot about
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  illness, but nothing about true mental and emotional health too.
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  So it was like anything else, me search, trying to figure out how to help me through this, and
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  then realizing patient after patient, client after client, that the problems are very
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  similar that we're facing too.
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  It wasn't until I gave my TEDx talk a few years ago that I really realized that I'd really been
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  a hypocrite when I came to mental health.
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  It was really about it would it was the idea being I was too privileged, I was too educated,
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  I was too fill in the blank to ever have anything or to suffer with mental health, And
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  it was on that stage that I kind of came clean with regards to all of that too.
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  So it's been a humbling journey.
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  It's been a transformative journey, and it's been an ongoing journey.
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  I always joke that mental health is not a rash, give it a cream and it goes away.
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  Right?
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  I wish it was.
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  For many of us, myself included, it is ongoing.
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  Some days are better than others.
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  Sometimes you're triggered more than others.
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  So I think the ongoing nature of it, hopefully, I can speak to what that resilience actually
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  feels like.
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  And sometimes when you feel down in the dumps, that's okay too.
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  So I think of your training.
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  Right?
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  We think of the OMA and kind of going through medical school.
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  Mhmm.
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  And some of my best friends, one's a pediatric surgeon, the other one's an ophthalmologist.
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  They we were all with the brats of the nineties from the Caribbean.
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  So I came to Canada, one one to Ireland, and the other one to England.
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  And I literally remember us having these massive conversations because they would have
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  these wicked days, like 16, 18 hour days.
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  Yeah.
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  And then I'd be like, wow.
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  Like, how do you do it?
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  So it's interesting Mhmm.
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  That even though you've gone through this training, like you said, you got through it
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  somehow.
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  Uh-huh.
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  Yeah.
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  And how did you get through it and be able to obviously, you applied certain things back
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  then.
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  Mhmm.
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  Mhmm.
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  But it didn't hit you, like you said, until you actually had your first child.
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  Completely.
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  And I think as you probably can speak to as well, like, mental health doesn't happen in a
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  silo.
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  Right?
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  For me, to be the truth was that all of this was grumbling along in the background for a
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  very long period of time.
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  It just becomes what is the straw that breaks the camel's back?
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  What is that thing that really that you can't ignore it anymore?
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  We always like to think that we can suppress our emotions, deny our emotions, but I always
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  joke, eventually, they will come and find you.
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  And the postpartum period just happens to be one of the most, quote, fertile periods to
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  really say that this is when things are going to uproot and you're going to you better pay
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  attention to them.
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  So I think if you look at the population in medical school, it's a self selected population
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  of those people who really value, I'll be honest, prestige, perfectionism, they fear
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  rejection.
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  Right?
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  All of that stuff.
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  If you really surveyed everybody, they're gonna rate really high on that, and it's no wonder
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  the rates of not just mental illness, but suicidality is much higher in those types of
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  professional career choices too.
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  So it's coming for you somewhere, and it's just where is that breaking point.
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  I just found medical school was a great it it kept me so mentally distracted from everything.
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  I could just immerse myself in that, but it wasn't very emotionally distracting.
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  The biggest the hardest piece for me is when I had a baby.
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  That was the biggest emotional load that I couldn't study my way out of this.
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  I couldn't rely on a textbook for this anymore.
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  There was no right way to parent, and I was looking for that in a very black and white way.
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  And I think that for me was the toppling factor.
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  It's the gray.
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  Right?
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  And I had my son a little bit later.
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  And likewise with you, I had done the bit and was a psychologist, and I I was in corporate
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  consulting.
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  And then I had this little thing, and I thought, I I don't have any control.
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  Yeah.
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  The ultimate space, like, you shared, like, where you kinda go, wow, when you speak to your
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  older family and say, what was it really like?
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  And then you're realizing the importance of what exists in some of the eastern cultures
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  Yes.
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  Yes.
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  Where you kinda go to now it's the doulas of the world, which is the emotional well-being of
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  the parents, or even my mom came and stayed with me for a month.
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  Well, that's very cultural as well because a lot of nuclear families in North America, it's
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  it's it's kinda not they they don't have that kind of net to help them through.
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  So it's interesting that you'd say that that was when it was like, woah.
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  Not black, not white, not e, not e, not f.
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  Exactly.
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  And then
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  everything in between.
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  And I think the other piece was that being a person who had a profession, who looked to be
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  all good from the outside, that actually makes you more susceptible.
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  That actually makes you more fragile in some ways because you were that much less likely to
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  ask for help.
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  So I know a lot of professional folks might be listening to this podcast, and there's still
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  whether you like it or not, there still is that stigma that meant if you even admit that you
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  are an anxiety is a symptom and not necessarily as a diagnosis.
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  Right?
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  We have to be very clear on that too.
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  But even if you are having any shadows or state, you know, feelings of that, there still
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  is that stigma that that means that you're weak or you need to try harder or as my family loves
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  to say, snap out of it.
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  And that's kind of the the trademark saying growing up or just snap out of it.
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  I'm like, it's not a button.
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  There's nothing to really snap on or off.
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  Right?
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  So I think the entire thing is that if we only understood the the psychological principle of
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  the beautiful mess effect, which is really if you already know and like and trust me as a
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  physician, as a colleague, and if I am humble enough to admit the realities of what I was
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  going through, you don't know and trust me less.
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  You actually know and trust me more.
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  And that's the biggest misnomer that we have that we think that if we share our real truth,
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  if we are authentic, it feels like it's gonna be too much.
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  In fact, people lean in, and we all need to start leaning in just a little bit more because
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  the world has just become way too fake and much too polarized.
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  That's interesting that you'd say that.
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  Right?
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  Like, when you think about levels of organization and I was just doing I think when
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  we chatted, I was do I was about to do some training in a with a company in Toronto.
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  And one was just middle managers, and the other second one, there was a couple of senior
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  managers.
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  Okay.
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  And it was interesting that in this particular company that you could see the difference in
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  that middle managers who were all of the same level were open, first of all.
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  But when you cross pollinated between upper and middle, I could see this I could feel it.
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  I could feel it.
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  I was like, wow.
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  The first one, they were open.
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  They were sharing.
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  And this is a really progressive company that really promotes trust and openness and respect
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  and that shoulders to shoulder management.
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  But the cross pollinating in the second training of that day, they it was a I I almost
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  felt like it got packaged in a way because senior management was in the in the room.
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  Yes.
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  Yes.
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  You know, which is so unfortunate.
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  Exactly.
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  And we almost become more buttoned up the higher that we we climb up onto those higher
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  echelons of whatever you wanna call it, management status.
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  And I think that does the biggest disservice because we all know that actually building true
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  psychological safety in our teams have to start from the top and has to start from the
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  vulnerability of our leaders.
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  And vulnerability, of course, takes that amount of courage too.
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  So we just we do this in our young I've got 3 young boys like we've shared before too, and we
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  do this in our in teaching our young kids as well.
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  Right?
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  Oh, be strong, but don't cry.
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  Like, there's always these mixed messages of you're supposed to do this, but actually, no.
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  Don't do that too.
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  And when do we have a bigger emotional bandwidth to say, actually, there's room for
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  all of it?
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  And that doesn't mean that you are that.
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  That if you're angry or frustrated or fill in the blank, you are not an angry person.
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  You are not an envious person.
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  You just feel that way for that period of time.
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  Right.
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  And I think it's as basic as fundamentally I think of when my son was growing.
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  And, of course, I grew up with girls, so now I have a boy, and then I'm like, oh my goodness.
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  What am I gonna do?
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  But then I what I realized was I became the reflective lens of how connected he was to
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  himself.
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  And I'll give you an ex this is a funny little example.
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  Right?
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  So, of course, I grew up in Trinidad.
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  They play cricket and rounders and netball.
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  Yeah.
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  And I come to Canada, and everybody plays hockey.
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  So, of course, what's the logical path Trinidad and how Canadian child gonna do?
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  He's gonna and he's a a beautiful natured child, but you could see the switch as soon as
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  he started once he got into the context of what would the expectations were on the ice.
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  He was kind and loving and gentle.
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  And then when he got on the ice, he it's almost like he had to cut it off to be in charge, in
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  control, and showing no emotion.
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  So you could see how young boys, especially, which I think we men, we want them to protect,
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  but we also want them to be vulnerable.
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  Yes.
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  And it it's such a I often say it's such a great space for them because where do they get
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  the role models?
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  They might they have to obviously learn it from fathers Correct.
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  Which they have been reared in a different way, but also moms that have to learn that, okay, we
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  can teach them to be vulnerable, but they also have to be protective enough to be able to go
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  out there and and deal with the hockey kinda rinks of the world and the locker rooms and
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  kind of being there and being a protective element if they go on to have their families as
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  well.
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  Completely.
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  Yeah.
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  No.
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  That's such a good point too, and it's funny that you mentioned that my kids are just
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  starting to play hockey as well.
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  And I think, yeah, there's a lot of of what's set on the sidelines of what and we don't
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  understand how much they actually soak in and take in at such a young age too.
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  But the message, I think, really being that I always joke with my patients saying that for me
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  to write a prescription for you takes hardly any time.
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  It takes, like, a second or 2 seconds to just signing my name on the bottom of a prescription
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  pad.
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  That is not the problem.
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  The problem or the question becomes, what brings you here and what brings you here now?
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  And trying to understand the story and the trajectory of your life that has really led up
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  to this.
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  And the more and more I've thought about it is that as a physician, as even a psychologist, we
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  have privy of seeing the entire mental health picture, whether it be anxiety, depression,
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  insomnia, chronic stress, the list goes on and on.
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  But every single pixel that makes up that picture has been the tens of 100 of 1000 of
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  opportunities we've all had to understand our emotions and why we've reacted in certain ways
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  and what your emotions are trying to tell us.
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  See, I think emotions were just something that I knew when I grew up, it was just supposed to
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  be glossed over and gleaned over.
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  It was not nothing to really pay attention to.
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  But if we start to think of our emotions like a compass and trying to point you in the
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  direction of what you actually value and care about, This is the kind of work I'm trying to
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  do with the adolescents I see now to take our conversations and to move it into something
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  more meaningful.
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  So the pressures are obviously, like I said, starts very young with us, be be the boy or
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  girl or whatever.
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  And into adolescence, the pressure becomes now how do I how do I function?
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  How do I, you know, like, separate or deindividuate, like we call it in the in the
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  clinical world, and learned that I'm gonna be okay on my own
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  Yes.
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  Yes.
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  Without, you know, the dependence of, I want mom and dad to take care of it, but I'm scared
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  out of my mind.
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  But I wanna belong.
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  Plus, I wanna know that potentially I can eventually go out there and not have to run
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  back home kind of thing.
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  Correct.
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  There's a lot more pressures.
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  So I'm just curious with when when we talk about authenticity, and I know you talk a lot
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  about that and I do as well.
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  Yes.
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  What
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  do you find the biggest pressures are for adolescents today about of being authentic?
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  I think we haven't really given them the space to know what that even means.
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  Their world is so bombarded.
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  Like, if you ask an adolescent, when's the last time you were quiet?
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  Just quiet.
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  I'm not saying meditate.
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  I'm not saying anything like that.
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  Just quiet.
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  They'll look at you as if in
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  no way You've got a 3rd eye.
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  Exactly.
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  But why?
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  I was gonna think that as if you're high because most of the time, they're like, sorry.
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  What?
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  So the concept is a foreign concept and, like, authentic to what?
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  Right?
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  Because authentic to the group I'm part of today, the boyfriend I'm dating tomorrow, the
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  it's just such a fluid concept that I think it's imperative, and it's it's hard for me to
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  even say that upon coaches, teachers, doctors, psychologists, that we actually use some of
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  what they are saying as clues.
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  Like, a great example I'll give you is that I was seeing a 16 year old patient not that long
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  ago, and she was making some really inappropriate decisions, like decisions that
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  could seriously impact her health, maybe possibly cause run ins with the law, those
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  types of things.
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  And she didn't think anything of that, but I was using our report to help her reframe some
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  of the decisions you possibly could make.
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  And all of a sudden, out of the corner of my eye, I see a spider, and I'm terrified of
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  spiders.
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  And here she is opening up to me really having a deep conversation, and I can't concentrate on
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  her at all because all I can see is a spider.
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  So she looks at me and says, can I take care of that for you?
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  I said, of course.
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  That'd that'd be amazing.
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  Thank you.
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  Grab a Kleenex.
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  And she points her finger directly in my face and says, I don't kill things.
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  Give me a cup.
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  Wow.
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  Okay.
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  I'm not used to having a youth point it in my face, but fine.
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  Got her a little cup.
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  She takes the spider.
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  Spider goes off on his merry way.
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  She comes back inside.
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  And here I was with this dilemma of making really inappropriate serious repercussion types
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  of decisions on one hand and yet so committed to life, human animal life on the other hand.
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  And I just couldn't get I couldn't make sense of it, but I couldn't ignore it.
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  So I just called her out on it.
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  I said, I'm really I said, I it would have been no skin off my nose if you'd crushed that
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  spider.
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  Like, I wouldn't have thought anything of it.
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  And she said, well, I really I've become a vegan.
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  I wanna become a vegetarian.
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  I wanna become a veterinary assistant.
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  I'm saving up money to get a cat.
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  She could see how much she loved and her heart was in service of animals.
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  So then I told her something.
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  I said, if you continue down this road, you will sacrifice this.
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  Right?
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  If you continue making these decisions, what you value.
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  So my job as an educator, a physician, was to shine a spotlight on what she valued with that
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  simple action of taking the spider and saving his life versus the alternate too.
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  That's where the that's where the authenticity happens.
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  But until someone takes a big flashlight and shines it in their face, a lot of the times, it
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  just goes it passes you by.
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  It passes you by.
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  So I think yeah.
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  That's it.
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  So interesting.
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  Right?
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  Because I think, generally, what is it?
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  Every patient gets 6 minutes of physician's time.
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  Right?
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  And which
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  It's bonkers.
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  Yep.
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  Yeah.
• 17:55
  It is bonkers.
• 17:55
  Right?
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  Because when I would say, to people, well, we need to we need to let you see your physician.
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  And if new clients come to me, they're like, the first thing it would say is, can you
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  prescribe me something?
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  And I go, what what do you wanna be to pres I'm anxious.
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  Give me something to calm down.
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  Okay.
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  I'm depressed, and I'm like, oh, okay.
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  So I will say to them, so here's the deal.
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  First of all, we're just here to try to understand whatever the I'm not sleeping.
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  What let's use that as an example.
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  And then, eventually, like you, I'll joke around and say, I can you know, if you think I
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  I can write a prescription, I said, this is what's gonna happen.
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  Just this place is true with I write something out, and you go out, and you do it my way for 2
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  weeks.
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  And you're gonna kinda like me the first maybe week and a half.
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  And the second week latter part of the second week, you're gonna fall down.
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  You're gonna bump your nose based on whatever I told you to do.
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  And then you're gonna come back in here and you're gonna be pissed off at me, and then they
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  look at me.
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  Go, really?
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  I go, generally, that's what I see.
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  Or we try to get to understand the frame that you're talking about, Johan, which is what's
• 18:58
  really important to you.
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  Right?
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  And then they go, oh, okay.
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  Maybe we'll try that kind of thing.
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  Because I think you're right.
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  People, individuals, even we're talking about that in our case.
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  But when I'm coaching even, individuals, when I say, but what do you value?
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  They go, what do I value?
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  What do you mean?
• 19:17
  What do you mean exactly?
• 19:18
  I said, are you kind of you know, when we're talking about coaching or, you know, making
• 19:23
  decisions at work, are you living in alignment with your value?
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  And oftentimes, they haven't slowed down long enough to say, I think I am, but I don't know
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  if I've thought about it lately.
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  Totally.
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  Completely.
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  Right?
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  And we ask ourselves the same question.
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  Right?
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  It sounds like such a great question, but the best way I find to approach values is honestly
• 19:45
  what pisses you off?
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  What makes you really angry?
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  Because people can get on board with that because to find what gets you angry often is
• 19:54
  something that is trying to speak to you, Right?
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  But asking someone the alternate that what do you really care about and value, they I think
• 20:01
  we say, oh, I value family, and I value all the esoteric things that people always say.
• 20:05
  But especially in adolescence, the pissing you off question, and even adults works really
• 20:10
  well.
• 20:10
  I think then the idea being that there is and, of course, I speak to adolescents, but there is
• 20:16
  a life outside the walls of high school if and when you graduate.
• 20:19
  Right?
• 20:20
  There is a whole big beautiful life waiting for you, and the decisions you make today obviously
• 20:25
  will have repercussions later on.
• 20:27
  But at the same time, you have the autonomy, right, to choose what that is going to look
• 20:32
  like as well, independent of the influences that you have chosen, good, bad, or otherwise.
• 20:38
  Right?
• 20:39
  So I think bringing these elements into the conversation has certainly taught me so much
• 20:44
  because I've realized just like you, when you have to ask yourself those questions, sometimes
• 20:48
  I fall flat as well.
• 20:50
  Right.
• 20:50
  And and then context wise too, like, so you're saying, what's the narrative?
• 20:54
  Like, what are they coming from?
• 20:56
  What circumstances have they been through under age 5?
• 20:59
  I'm gonna assume you probably do things like ACEs and stuff like that.
• 21:02
  Yeah.
• 21:02
  If they're coming to you as an adolescent and you're supporting them and caring for them Yes.
• 21:07
  But you're putting them back into the pepper pots of uncertainty, then that child or
• 21:12
  adolescent may be adaptive to the environment they're in and trying to find that one little
• 21:17
  vein that you maybe can tap into them to say that you have you have the ability to do
• 21:23
  something different even though you may be going back into a tough situation as well.
• 21:28
  Completely.
• 21:29
  Completely.
• 21:29
  One of the biggest phrases that now I say to my kids and a youth coined this, and it doesn't
• 21:35
  the acronym doesn't quite make sense, but it's called WCLIC, which basically stands, what can
• 21:40
  I control?
• 21:41
  WCIC, what can I control?
• 21:43
  And the youth love this, and one of the youth made it up, but it was she opened out to me.
• 21:48
  She was 14, and mom's an alcoholic.
• 21:51
  Stepfather's in and out of the house.
• 21:54
  It's not a great environment at home.
• 21:56
  Right.
• 21:56
  That's right.
• 21:57
  And she had to learn she said from the age of 4 or 5, what can I control?
• 22:03
  I can't control all of this havoc.
• 22:05
  I wanna get out of the house eventually.
• 22:07
  But then we looked at her list, and it was she's doing great at school.
• 22:10
  She's showing up for class.
• 22:12
  She's handing in her assignments.
• 22:13
  And, yes, we're talking about adolescence, but this also applies to adults too.
• 22:17
  Sometimes, especially in a very unpredictable world as we're entering too, we have to keep
• 22:23
  remembering what can I control right now instead of always wanting to predict the
• 22:28
  future, which is our stories are meet our minds are meaning makers?
• 22:32
  We're constantly making meaning of a situation.
• 22:34
  Right?
• 22:35
  But if you focus on the here and now and what I can do in this very moment, I think that if I
• 22:40
  could give that to every adolescent and every adult including myself, that is one of the most
• 22:45
  powerful things that we can take away.
• 22:47
  Now you've written a book, and, it's called feel better.
• 22:52
  That's right.
• 22:52
  Yeah.
• 22:52
  Release.
• 22:53
  So tell us a little bit about that, and I know you, also speak as a keynote speaker as well.
• 23:00
  Tell us a little bit about the book and a bit about your speaking so that anybody that's
• 23:04
  listening and that's interested in the topic would understand what you're kind of doing out
• 23:08
  there.
• 23:08
  No.
• 23:08
  Of course.
• 23:09
  The the premise
• 23:09
  of the book came because I would ask youth often, do you care about yourself?
• 23:11
  Not even love yourself.
• 23:13
  I'm not gonna go there.
• 23:15
  I just said care about yourself.
• 23:19
  And over and over and over again, without these youth communicating with each other, I get the
• 23:23
  same reply.
• 23:24
  I express like, kind of swear word swear word swear word hate myself.
• 23:29
  And it was always the same version of the same answer, And that's what the book is built on.
• 23:34
  The idea that if we wanna talk about self awareness, which is really the bedrock of
• 23:38
  emotional literacy and something that we all love to talk about because just like
• 23:42
  psychological safety, it's become a buzzword.
• 23:45
  How can you become self aware if you don't have an iota of self acknowledgment or inner
• 23:49
  acknowledgment if you feel like that's a better phrase too?
• 23:52
  And how how does one build a better self-concept, especially if you've had adverse
• 23:57
  childhood experiences or if you've had things that were possibly out of your control.
• 24:02
  So it's very tangible.
• 24:04
  So it starts with self acknowledgement, crosses the bridge to self awareness, and then leads to
• 24:09
  self compassion.
• 24:10
  That is the arc of the book too.
• 24:12
  But the book is filled with obviously anonymous but real life patient stories.
• 24:17
  Right?
• 24:17
  A cumulative picture of patient stories of just like the spider example to go, how do you take
• 24:23
  one scenario and make it a story that hopefully you'll remember?
• 24:28
  And many of us either have children or have kids or adolescents in our lives that we love
• 24:33
  and care about.
• 24:34
  So sometimes by reading the book for someone else, it's very rare.
• 24:39
  I think women are the exception, but you're gonna pick up the book and say, I need help.
• 24:43
  But But if you pick up the book and say someone I love needs help, whatever else tends to
• 24:48
  filter through is a bonus for you.
• 24:50
  Right?
• 24:51
  So it's really written for women between the ages of 3550, but the ancillary benefit is
• 24:57
  gonna hopefully help your kids as well.
• 25:00
  Mhmm.
• 25:01
  Absolute it's, we're in this world, and, obviously, you picked this world and I did too.
• 25:05
  Even culturally at times, you know, you I would start talking about things and people would say
• 25:10
  and I'm in Trinidad and they might say, well, what do you mean about that?
• 25:12
  And I'm like, well, we gotta think about what we're feeling, and are we expressing, and is
• 25:17
  this in alignment with what you know, I often say the GPS in our tummies, it goes off and it
• 25:22
  does it doesn't stop until you acknowledge it.
• 25:24
  And then I think back.
• 25:26
  Right?
• 25:26
  Like, the things that I teach now compared to what I grew up with.
• 25:29
  In my high school, I think my parents were having difficulties, and they sent me to see
• 25:33
  the school counselor who didn't even know what to do with me because and I'm like, okay.
• 25:38
  Well, this is poor.
• 25:40
  I'm thinking back to when I was 16, and then I thought, oh my goodness.
• 25:43
  That was really bad.
• 25:44
  That was just somebody to be there to call them the the the title, but not really bad guys that
• 25:50
  were saying, you know, to our little ones, what are you feeling?
• 25:53
  What's your tummy telling you?
• 25:55
  If somebody makes you uncomfortable, use your words, talk.
• 25:58
  We're we're starting because we have knowledge, say, from 40 years ago compared to now.
• 26:02
  And you're right.
• 26:03
  It's that self acknowledgment.
• 26:05
  And you never know who's gonna help that if that child comes from adverse situations.
• 26:10
  Yeah.
• 26:10
  Like, it could be a teacher, could be a coach, it could be a friend's parents, those types of
• 26:14
  things, but it's kinda starting to acknowledge that.
• 26:16
  And in the workplace, it plays out as well.
• 26:18
  I often say that's a bigger version of a smaller sandbox.
• 26:23
  Correct.
• 26:23
  Correct.
• 26:24
  Yeah.
• 26:24
  You see it as it plays out, you know, when you see the dynamics at work.
• 26:28
  What is everybody looking for but safety within themselves?
• 26:31
  And then people in the workplace, what are they doing?
• 26:33
  They're jabbing at them intentionally, not intentionally, unconsciously, and then we're
• 26:38
  all supposed to really go out and do we're we're supposed to blend that new project and
• 26:43
  get through all those things.
• 26:44
  So that's where I find a lot of, resilience comes in into into question because are people
• 26:51
  aware what they're doing to others?
• 26:53
  Or sometimes if they're aware, are they willing to do anything about it?
• 26:57
  Now in your speaking, tell us a little bit about kind of where what kind of topics you
• 27:03
  speak about and some of the other things that you do outside of your practice?
• 27:08
  Oh, for sure.
• 27:08
  Yeah.
• 27:08
  So, you know, I was giving the TEDx talk in 2019.
• 27:11
  That was my first time being on stage, and I realized this is what I wanted I want to do
• 27:15
  more of.
• 27:16
  Really, fortunately, that has led to speaking across Canada.
• 27:20
  The topics really have to center around what, obviously, I love to speak about today, which
• 27:25
  is mental health and wellness too.
• 27:27
  But I think one of the things I've learned is that people find it really hard to talk about
• 27:31
  mental health.
• 27:32
  Right?
• 27:32
  So when you reframe that as burnout management or self care or resiliency or wellness or any
• 27:39
  of those euphemisms, but to really for me, I wanna be able to address the meat of the
• 27:44
  subject, but sometimes you need to do it in a way of talking about the positive or how how
• 27:49
  can we communicate better better or how can we connect better as a team.
• 27:52
  Those are all various subjects that I've spoken about too and now using the book as a lever to
• 27:58
  pull and having a framework in the book of the acknowledgment, the self awareness, the
• 28:03
  compassion, and looking at that triad, it helps to bolster the talk that much more too.
• 28:09
  But I think what hopefully sets my talks apart are the real life examples from the patients.
• 28:14
  I think those are the ones I've attended many keynote sessions, many breakout sessions.
• 28:19
  I don't often remember the subject, but I remember the stories.
• 28:22
  Right?
• 28:23
  So I think the more you can impact people through the type of stories you are, not making
• 28:27
  your stories just an anecdote, but making your stories really land with people and give them
• 28:32
  some tools that they can take away.
• 28:34
  Know, that's what I I endeavor to do.
• 28:37
  So if you're a senior leader or or part of a senior team and you're thinking, how is it that
• 28:41
  I kinda gauge what's around me?
• 28:45
  What might be a couple of quick tips that you might tell them to consider?
• 28:49
  Yeah.
• 28:50
  Yeah.
• 28:51
  My favorite.
• 28:52
  No.
• 28:52
  For sure.
• 28:53
  My favorite is the 2 word check-in in a meeting.
• 28:55
  I do this all the time when I lead my meetings with my staff as well too.
• 28:59
  You go around the table.
• 29:00
  The leader always has to go first too to set the stage because if the leader says wonderful
• 29:04
  and shiny, no one else is gonna really be authentic to themselves.
• 29:08
  But if the leader says I'm feeling distracted and irritable, you set the stage for the rest
• 29:13
  of the group to say, in that moment, they can say any words except fine or good.
• 29:18
  Right?
• 29:18
  Anything else is on the table.
• 29:20
  I did that recently with a large company, and it was heartbreaking to see the types of
• 29:24
  responses people were saying, but it also was gratifying to see people weren't sugarcoating
• 29:29
  what they were feeling too.
• 29:30
  So that's a very, you know, low hanging fruit that you can implement anytime, any meeting, no
• 29:36
  matter who is there too.
• 29:37
  Another company I worked with, they had an anonymous box on a manager's desk, and that
• 29:44
  box, people could just put in things they were going through, conflict with their spouse,
• 29:49
  their child was sick, the list went on and on.
• 29:52
  But the fact that it was anonymous, people could actually feel like they could actually be
• 29:56
  seen without being seen.
• 29:58
  And that for me, it was like I'd like to see a face behind that, but that was a great starting
• 30:04
  point for them.
• 30:04
  And it gave the company recognition of how much these people are actually caring.
• 30:11
  I always say you bring your home to work and your work home.
• 30:13
  There is no magical line that you cross the threshold of, I'm like, everything's great.
• 30:18
  It doesn't work that way.
• 30:20
  It doesn't mean that it's an excuse not to be professional.
• 30:23
  It doesn't mean that it's an excuse not to, be present at work.
• 30:28
  But are you human at work?
• 30:30
  Yes.
• 30:31
  And the more that we realize that, I think the more resilient we can actually be versus
• 30:35
  ignoring it as well too.
• 30:37
  So those are just 2 things that I've seen that could possibly work and are pretty cost
• 30:42
  effective.
• 30:44
  Amazing.
• 30:44
  Something very simple.
• 30:46
  Yeah.
• 30:46
  And I think it's oftentimes people get into meetings and become so tactical, and then we're
• 30:52
  not our human potential isn't right in the room or on screen like we are today.
• 30:57
  Yep.
• 30:57
  You can still read so much about what's going on.
• 31:00
  Like, you said, how are you doing?
• 31:01
  And I said, I'm good, but some other things going on.
• 31:04
  That's simple because you said, how are you doing?
• 31:07
  That means that you really wanna know, and you can you can really shift things to your point
• 31:13
  if you realize seems to be that Swartzell is also always so shiny and bright, but there
• 31:18
  seems to be something missing.
• 31:19
  It gives you clues too, but potentially what what you might need to do to reach out to
• 31:24
  someone 1 to 1 offline, not in a meeting to really Yeah.
• 31:28
  Understand what's going on with them more.
• 31:30
  So with the book, tell them where they can get it, tell them where they can get ahold of you
• 31:35
  so that Yeah.
• 31:35
  Everybody that's listened and spent the time with us today, if they're wanting your support,
• 31:40
  they can reach out, Shahana.
• 31:41
  Yeah.
• 31:41
  I so appreciate that.
• 31:42
  The book is available on Amazon.
• 31:44
  It's also on Audible as well.
• 31:46
  I did the reading, so hopefully, whether that's good, bad, or otherwise, you can let me know
• 31:50
  what you think of that.
• 31:52
  On my website at doctor shohanna.com, feel free to reach out to me there, and then very active,
• 31:57
  especially on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn too.
• 32:00
  So any of that plat those platforms, send me a message, drop me a DM, and more than happy to
• 32:05
  get in touch.
• 32:07
  Awesome.
• 32:08
  So a self acknowledgment.
• 32:09
  I guess that's the one thing that I'm thinking that I'm listening, when I listen to doctor
• 32:13
  Shahana today.
• 32:14
  It's just to spend that time in quiet.
• 32:17
  What we have done is we have deprived ourselves in this day and age and think of who's around
• 32:23
  you and what are they getting off you.
• 32:25
  If you're not slowing, you're acknowledging, what energy and radiation of your space are
• 32:31
  you, putting forward, to the people around you.
• 32:34
  So for everyone, thanks for tuning in.
• 32:36
  You know that if you're wanting to know how authentically connected you are to your
• 32:40
  relationships, either at work or at home, just go to roxanderhodge.comforward/quiz.
• 32:46
  We'll send you a little quiz.
• 32:47
  It'll take you a couple minutes, and we'll send you back some results with some next steps.
• 32:52
  Again, doctor Shana, thanks so much.
• 32:53
  And for everyone, thanks again for tuning in, and we'll chat with you again next week.
• 32:57
  Take care.
• 33:09
  Thanks for tuning in to Authentic Living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive
• 33:15
  healthy change.
• 33:16
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach.
• 33:20
  To work with Roxanne, visit roxanne dirhaj.com/blueprint.
• 33:26
  We'll see you next time on Authentic Living with Roxanne.