Latest / Bookies' Favourite / The Witch by Marie NDiaye, translated by Jordan Stump | Review | International Booker Prize 2026

Transcript

The Witch by Marie NDiaye, translated by Jordan Stump | Review | International Booker Prize 2026 · Bookies' Favourite

0:11
Welcome to the Clear Bookies, favorite book club.
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We read literary shortlists and award-winning novels.
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I'm going to spare every of my French accents.
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We're an independent podcast with no official links to the
0:22
awards we discuss. We're currently reading the
0:24
International Booger Prize 2026 shortlist.
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The award recognizes the vital work of translation in the UK
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and Ireland. In this episode, we're
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discussing The Witch by Marie and Jay, translated from the
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French by Jordan Stump. Originally published in French
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in 1996. Published by Quarkris Publishing
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in 2026. You can follow us on Instagram
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and Goodreads at Bookies Favorite Book Club and e-mail
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us.bookiesfavoritebookclub@gmail.com. All of our socials and e-mail
0:53
addresses are in the description.
0:56
I'm Colin and you can find me on Instagram at C under score F
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under score writes. And I'm currently crying bloody
1:04
tears as I as I look into the present across across the world.
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I don't really know what to think about this book, to be
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honest. I think it was quite interesting
1:13
concept, but I don't know if it actually did quite as much as I
1:16
wanted to do with this with the with this concept.
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And I think like it fell a little like, I don't know, loose
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or empty or what. I don't really know what's going
1:25
on. I'm interested to see what we
1:27
all think because I think I might give a better insight into
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like the overall themes and the overall story.
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Hi, I'm Hannah and you can find me on Instagram.
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I certified book yapper Hannah and and I'm currently wondering
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why my ex-wife has turned me into a snail and put me in a
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box. I feel I don't know I feel like
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really weird for this one because I love the concept but I
1:55
just feel like the writing or like the story.
1:58
Sorry like just didn't really like deep dive into anything.
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It just felt like it was all maybe a bit like surface level
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and at one point I was like, oh, should I continue reading this?
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Not because I didn't overly like it, but I just felt a bit mad
2:13
about it. But I actually really enjoyed
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the author's like writing style of the book.
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So I feel like writing sound is good for like.
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The concept just felt a bit flat for me.
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Hi, I'm Lucy and I'm currently in a university of spiritual
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health learning about my future. As with most French books, I
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loved it obviously because that's how it works with me.
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If it's French, apparently that means it's good.
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And so I really, really like the writing.
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I think that the writing is way ahead of any other book on the
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shortlist by far. I think it's quite like the
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sentence structures quite long, which can be like a bit
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difficult at times. It's way ahead in my opinion of
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the rest of the pack, but I do think it does maybe struggle
3:00
with a couple of issues. And a lot of it is that I don't
3:03
know that I fully understand it because it is quite confusing at
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times. But I did really enjoy it and I
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I think it could be better. But I think just in terms of
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writing it, it makes the other ones look not as good.
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I'm Aaron. Rice at Aaron Rice Media and I
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am enrolling in my class of Astral Voyages without
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Turbulence. I think I liked this book and
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this was a tough one because I think I'm on the same page.
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I think we're all maybe feeling the same kind of thing.
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Like in my mind, this is either high concept and I just don't
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get it, or it's just full of conveniences and we're giving it
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a pass because we kind of liked it.
3:54
Spoiler warning From this point on, let's start with a quote
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from The Witch. Maybe, I told myself, it was all
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just superstition. Maybe my supposedly gifted
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mother and I had never succeeded in anything but convincing
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ourselves so utterly that we believed in what we thought we
4:11
were seeing of the truth of stories handed down by unhappy
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women per downtrodden, naively cunning old women like my
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credulous ancestress, so passionate about divination, my
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mother's mother. So Lucy is a self-described
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mediocre witch with a limited ability to see into the future.
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As she teaches her twin daughters to become witches, she
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struggles to understand their cavalier attitude towards the
4:37
world and to their own powers. After her husband leaves her,
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she throws all her might into fixing her parents failing
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marriage. Her adventure leads her to
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confront her husband and his new family and her mysterious
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neighbor Isabel and the elite school.
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Isabel has recently found it. What does everyone think of
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this? Like let.
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Let's dive in. I mean, I think that the main
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thing to start off is with the witch stuff because I think like
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that is kind of the frame framework for this all and it's
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obviously called the witch. So it's kind of focusing on
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that, umm, obviously witchcraft and it is, it's kind of does a
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magical realism thing of taking something and really running
5:14
with it in reality. But you know, what I kind of
5:16
liked about it was that they still talk about how it wasn't
5:19
accepted by some people. But as I was reading, it's the
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whole thing isn't, I think it's not really about being a witch.
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It's more about like potential and how people just haven't
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achieved the potential that they kind of were set out for.
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So it's she talked about how her mother was a fantastic witch,
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but she chose not to go on with them to settle with with a man.
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And she could have been a fantastic witch.
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But uh, but I'm also like, is this whole witch stuff something
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that people are seeing in other people rather than seeing in
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themselves? You know, because she's thinks
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she's a mediocre witch. So that's how she's clearly
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viewing herself rather than that being the actual extended her
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powers, you know, And then she looks at her daughters and she
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says they are, they're learning so quickly and they're sure they
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don't care at the beginning, but they're teenagers or whatever.
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And like, of course they're not going to care.
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They don't care about the potential.
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But she sees that there's so much in them.
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You know, to me, it's like the magic or whatever this is.
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It's more about like how she's viewing potential of these women
6:16
around her, but also these women probably are viewing themselves
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as mediocre which is to in that regard.
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Does that make any sense? I think so, yeah, I get what you
6:24
mean. I actually didn't think about it
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like that. But I think that I was kind of
6:28
like, there must be something more she's saying with the magic
6:31
stuff because it's kind of strange the way that the world
6:34
works with the magic stuff. But I was kind of thinking she
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does seem, and I think you've kind of hit on it is the fact
6:40
that she seems to think that everybody else is amazing and
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she's not like she's average and every she she holds people.
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She does seem to see them as accurate because they're not
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portrayed nicely. But at the same time she is very
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like, but they're great. It's so strange.
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I really like her character because like the way she sees
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the world is not normal at all. But then I was kind of like,
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what is what is magic? Like, what is it?
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And then I was like trying to find examples where it was like
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really concrete and it was like, this has actually happened
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because other things they just seemed so like wishy washy, like
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the the type of magic. And the only one that I could
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really think of apart from the fact that that her daughters do
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seem to become become like birds.
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But I also saw that as just a metaphor of flying the nest in
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like a really obvious metaphor. But the only thing I could think
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of was either way, her mum, her mum's got with this new guy,
7:41
Robert and Robert and the mom just all of a sudden show up out
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of the blue. And Robert has like a transistor
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radio, right? And the radio says he's kind of
7:57
like, oh, Rabin has been, yeah, has been assassinated.
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And he's like, that's, that's such a random thing for him to
8:06
like, say, especially when I Googled it happened in November
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and this clearly takes place between April and between April
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and June. So there's no way that it would
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be relevant. Either it'd be too early and he
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knows the future or it's like, why is he so late with this
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news? If it's like 19, if it's summer
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1996, the book was released in 1996.
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That guy was assassinated in 1995 in November.
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So either it's future or it's past.
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But either way, it's like months.
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Irrelevant on either side. So I was like, there must be
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something. That's so interesting.
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I was, I was looking into this as well because if this book was
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published in 1996, but he was assassinated in November of
8:52
1995. Do we know when in 1996 this was
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published? Because could the book have been
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completed and she just predicted it?
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Now obviously, the book was published after well.
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It was 1996 the book was published and this happened in
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1995. I doubt she would predict this
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man being assassinated. And also she does mention the
9:13
fact he's assassinated not by an, and I quote an Arab.
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So she would have to guess that this Israeli figure has been
9:20
assassinated and he's been assassinated by an Israeli,
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which would be quite the guess, Aaron.
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So I'm assuming she's she's written about it knowingly and
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she's put that in to be like, this is actually for telling the
9:33
future because he's picked up this radio.
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And I was like, is it when I first read it, I was like, is he
9:40
magic? And we just don't realize?
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But then I was like, it must be the mother's magic because she's
9:45
trying to pretend she's not magic.
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And maybe it comes out in other ways.
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But I thought that was one of the more concrete examples of,
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like, we have dates and times. We know that something strange
9:54
has gone on here. OK, well can I just said that
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you picking that out of the strange things that happened in
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that 1 scene is bizarre because they just showed up out of
10:07
nowhere as if they like teleported into like her mother
10:13
in law's kitchen. And everyone just acts like it's
10:17
completely normal. And they're just going around
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like she's making coffee and opening the cookies.
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And then Lucy leaves the room and comes back in and everyone's
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gone. And the mother-in-law just never
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mentions it. So it's like, well, was this in
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her mind? Like was did this actually
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happen? The power of magical realism, I
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feel like aren't. If you haven't read Shuet, then,
10:40
you know, everything after that just seems really tame.
10:44
Yeah. But magical realism, So for us,
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it's. Yeah, it's not a big deal.
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It's not quite enough for me, that stuff.
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It's like it could be in her head.
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She might not be writing everything that's happening,
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but. See, I thought, I thought that
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the whole stuff with them showing up was maybe she was
11:02
seeing like across, across like a split of where they work
11:07
because she has the whole thing where she can see, you know,
11:09
where someone is like she's not seeing the future, but she's
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seeing like across space. And I thought it was something
11:15
to do with, like, is she, is there like a melding of her
11:19
current state? And then she's seen her, her
11:22
mother and him elsewhere, you know?
11:25
But the robber, or Robert, as I thought it was, and the
11:31
mother-in-law, Mama, just they, they interact with each other,
11:35
which they should. Yeah.
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But is it, is it via herd, you know, is it like mediumship or
11:39
or something like that? Like is it we're seeing from her
11:42
point of view, but this is kind of like like is she saying the
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things that he's saying? Like, I don't know, it's very
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loose. It was the the mother.
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I assumed that it was that was magical.
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That was a bit of magical realism.
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And we are not to know 100% whether the mom just showed up
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out of the blue, which is a possibility as well.
12:02
And then just left and no one acknowledged it because
12:04
sometimes people, they don't write every single thing that's
12:07
happened. So the fact that they don't
12:09
acknowledge the fact they don't say I'm, I'm not tied to the
12:14
fact that this is 1 exact thing. I think that's open to
12:17
interpretation. No, no, no.
12:19
OK, the. Fact he was in the middle of
12:20
shaving and how did they get there?
12:23
They had only the and two mothers had only met each other
12:27
about 12 or 13 years ago. Like there is literally no
12:30
reason for for them to have shown up there.
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So I think it was magic. Like I don't see how that could
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have AI understand what you're saying, but I think yes.
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And I think it was the Mother's magic more so than Lucy's magic
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because like, we know that the mother has way more abilities
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and while this just doesn't match up with what we know that
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Lucy can do. I think as well it's the the if
12:54
Robert is there it's like why would Lucy astral project him?
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Yeah, like why would she? Like it's, yeah, to me it's,
13:05
it's like, yeah, I don't, I do think it was magical, but I am
13:11
kind of also like, she's strange with what she chooses to tell
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you. So I'm at the same time I'm
13:18
like, it's the standard kind of magical realism with a slightly
13:22
unreliable narrator where you just don't have no clue.
13:26
And I think that could be like, yes, this is 100% definitely
13:29
magic. Or you can be like this has not
13:32
been told to me in a normal way. I was just thinking, like, one
13:35
of the big themes for the book for me was like motherhood but
13:39
in different forms. So you've got Isabelle, who,
13:42
like, wants absolutely nothing to do with her child, which made
13:46
me think like, why did she have this child Lucas?
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And she, like, really hits him and wants to send him off.
13:52
So then we have Lucy, who obviously, like, loves her twin
13:55
daughters and then wants them to carry on this kind of like witch
14:00
tradition. But then you get the sense for
14:03
her. I was like, yes, like she's fine
14:06
with her children almost leaving, but then she doesn't
14:08
want them to be like, like, there's that thing of like, you
14:12
know, like people talk about motherhood where they're like,
14:14
oh, like you want your kids to be nearby, but then you want
14:17
them to be independent and go. So there's like that whole bit.
14:21
And then they kind of struggle with like her own, Lucy's own
14:26
mother who's like this great witch but then doesn't want to
14:30
show it, but then has passed a gift on to Lucy.
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And there's that little power dynamic quite thing in that.
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And I like the different forms of like the motherhood.
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They're each different person. I thought it was quite
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interesting the part of with the two children, though.
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Sorry that they turn into crows and then they just fly off and
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she's just like, OK, I'm like, I don't know, pardon me, Was like,
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is there not more emotion or is it can be explored this just a
14:55
tiny bit? I think Lucy is kind of correct
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and that is that like kind of on the nose flying the coop kind of
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thing. And like, I think it is this
15:04
mother just seems a little bit like detached in a way.
15:08
And like she's just like, oh, OK, this is what's happening.
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You know, like even when her husband, you know, vanishes or
15:14
whatever and she's like, oh, this is what's happening.
15:15
She's never really like moved by it in a way.
15:18
But then you could, yeah. But then you could also maybe
15:21
say because she knows everything is happening, you know, she can
15:24
see things if she wants to. Maybe that's what happens when
15:27
you have a gift like that. Like if we're going with the
15:29
actual magic of it, you know, like, if you have the potential
15:32
to see anything that's happening at any point, like wherever
15:36
someone is like you, you are going to do things differently.
15:39
And it's not quite quite as linear as we as we see it.
15:44
I, There's something I find really interesting about her
15:46
relationship with her daughters in the sense that a lot of the
15:50
characters are quite well developed, like developed in a
15:52
strange sense. Like I don't think that they're
15:54
developed in like a three-dimensional.
15:57
I think they're developed in a, this is what Lucy thinks of
15:59
them. And I think that causes a lot of
16:01
really strange things in in the writing because it's so from her
16:05
point of view, even though it's not an first person book, but
16:10
you really feel like she kind of has a grasp on these other
16:12
people and the way they are and their emotional state.
16:16
And then with her daughters, it seems like she knows absolutely
16:19
nothing. She just kind of holds them in
16:22
this like really high regard. And she kind of, she kind of is
16:26
like they are really cold and they are really unemotional.
16:30
But she kind of goes, oh, well, that's that's TV's fault.
16:33
And that's like the Garden Club that they're part of.
16:36
But she also doesn't really, she blames them, but she doesn't
16:38
blame them. She seems quite self aware.
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I think that there's like a self-awareness about motherhood
16:45
that she seems to have and she knows what she doesn't want to
16:47
be, but she also can't find that way to have that relationship
16:52
that she really wants, which I think is quite a sad, the whole
16:57
motherhood thing. Because she talks about like she
17:00
talks always about how Isabel is so cruel to her son, but then
17:04
when she has the chance to be nice to her son, she's like this
17:07
little dweeb or whatever. Do you know?
17:09
Like she does that like that. But she kind of like stunning.
17:11
It was like, of course, you know, she would think that.
17:13
So she's clearly, I think it is the complexities of motherhood,
17:16
you know? But I think something
17:17
interesting in that exchange with that child Steve.
17:19
So it's, it's a really horrible story.
17:22
But Isabel, who is just a bizarre character, she, she has
17:27
a son, Steve, and she just hates Steve.
17:29
Like, she absolutely hates him. She wants him to do really well
17:31
in life. So she's obsessed with the idea
17:33
that Lucy will be able to tell, tell her Steve's future.
17:38
And she is able to like, grasp bits and pieces of Steve's
17:41
future. And she sees him as a really
17:43
unhappy man. And you can kind of see you, you
17:46
get the, as the reader get the opportunity to see him at that
17:49
time and him in the future. And she's she kind of wants to
17:53
be nice to him because she's aware of what's going to happen
17:56
to him. Like he's going to be sad, he's
17:57
going to be depressed. And she probably can see that
18:00
causal link between how his mother treats him and how he's
18:03
going to be. But then she has this flash of
18:06
seeing him treat other people cruelly.
18:08
And so she treats him cruelly, adding to this cycle of like the
18:13
fact that he is going to be an awful person when he grows up.
18:17
But I thought it was really interestingly done and probably
18:20
one of the problems with the ability to see into the future
18:23
to any degree. One of the things that I found
18:25
very odd about this book, and I think this is where the like
18:29
high concept or is it just something that we're dismissing
18:33
kind of comes into it. Time works so weird because
18:38
we're in a specific set time as as you said, Lucy.
18:42
It goes from like April to June and more April to like mid June.
18:47
All of these other characters are round.
18:49
Lucy seem to be aging or like doing things at a much faster
18:56
rate than is humanly possible. So take, for example, Isabel,
19:00
who starts off as like the nosy neighbor who, like, is just a
19:06
stay at home mother. And then the family goes to
19:10
Paris and she's in Paris. And then she goes to Borscht and
19:16
Isabel is there. And she's started like, really
19:21
successful, like all women university, but for like, all
19:27
this like, magic stuff that she doesn't actually believe in.
19:29
But she just knows that she can, like, milk the money from the
19:32
rich families and like, what? How does that make any sense?
19:37
Like the. Yeah.
19:39
I don't know like what anyone else, but when I first read it
19:43
and then Lucy's husband leaves and then she goes to try and
19:46
find himself, I had just taken that of like this is all
19:49
happening like super, super fast, like over a weekend and
19:52
then the next minute where Isabel is just everywhere.
19:56
And then this weird actually found her such a weird, odd
19:58
character. And I do think she's like a
20:01
little crew or a little witch in some way, but she's just always
20:04
appearing. But that's when I was like, oh,
20:07
this feels like it's a really short amount of time, but then
20:10
it's a really long amount of time and I was getting confused
20:13
almost, but I like. It the husband perot he left
20:18
Lucy and the kids and then went and joined another woman and
20:24
earned her kids and then by the end of it she's already pregnant
20:29
with his child and like showing and it's like what?
20:33
So I took it as I don't know if you guys remember.
20:35
So my, my favorite bit of the book is when Perot brings home
20:40
this man, Mr. Martin and Monsieur Martin, sorry, but he
20:46
brings him back and Monsieur Martin has left his wife and
20:50
he's from this Country Club. And basically he's like, I hate
20:55
my, my wife and child. They ignore me and they don't
20:58
like me and my son's like 3 or 4.
21:01
And then the son event and the mother come to the door and the
21:05
son's 12 and Lucy's like he said she was like 3 or 4.
21:11
Why is he like he's taller than the mother?
21:14
Like he's, he's like a big kid and the, the mother's like she,
21:20
he doesn't, he doesn't notice this of these things.
21:22
He doesn't want these children to have aged, his child to have
21:26
aged. And I kind of saw that as a
21:29
reference to the whole book. And the fact that Maud and Lees,
21:34
who are her children, I assume they've aged.
21:37
They're not 12. I can't picture them being 12 in
21:40
this book at all. So I kind of think for her,
21:44
everything's happening too fast. And she is Monsieur Mateen as
21:49
well. This is not like she's she's
21:54
going through this same thing and she doesn't, she doesn't
21:57
want them to be old. And she's like, they're 12 and
21:59
they've just literally flown away.
22:03
But like, yeah, I just took it as that's all kind of
22:07
metaphorical. Yeah, I can see that.
22:09
Like the loosey gooseiness of the loosey gooseiness of the
22:13
timeline is so interesting. And I like your reading over
22:17
that. It is because time just moves so
22:19
quickly, like motherhood, like you always hear people say, how
22:22
do you know, hold on, appreciate these years or whatever, because
22:25
before, before, you know, it'll be over.
22:27
And I think that's kind of what's happening here is like,
22:29
her life is disappearing before her eyes.
22:31
And obviously, it tracks into other characters.
22:34
I think it is just one of those books.
22:35
It's almost like dreamlike in a way.
22:36
And you sort of just have to roll with it.
22:38
And Isabel, for example, if she's some sort of like, dream
22:42
guide, you know, she feels almost like, oh, I will guide
22:45
you through this. It's very weird.
22:47
We do know that Isabel was taught some magic initially by
22:51
Lucy because Lucy was trying to induct her.
22:54
And she was like the she seems like the leader of our
22:58
subdivision. And so like, she will be good to
23:01
have on my side. Like, let's start like a little
23:03
coven together. And she doesn't use those words.
23:06
But like, that's basically what she wanted to do.
23:08
And then she realized how much she didn't like Isabel.
23:12
And now Isabel just like uses her.
23:14
The part where Lucy's visiting her mother and then the the
23:21
Raven is like packing on the window and she goes over and the
23:25
Raven flies away and then she starts shouting out Isabel.
23:28
Isabel. And then a woman who looks like
23:30
Isabel in another apartment opens her window and was like,
23:34
yeah, what do you want? Like, Like what?
23:37
Like I'm so confused. Why did Isabel?
23:41
Also the fact that Part 1 ended with Lucy and the kids getting
23:47
back onto the metro and and they see school children getting off
23:52
at the Louvre and they see Steve and they're like, there's Steve.
23:56
And then it ends with Lucy saying something like, Oh no,
24:00
Isabel, what have you done? And like, what did she do?
24:04
Like I have no idea. Dropped her kid in a in a
24:08
boarding school. That's what I took it as because
24:10
I don't think, well, this is maybe my opinion, but like, I
24:13
don't think Lucy likes the idea that she wants that.
24:16
Isabel just wants to dump Steve somewhere and especially
24:19
especially horrified at the fact that it's like a boarding school
24:22
and Steve is 5. Steve is probably not 5.
24:25
But. Steve is in Lucy's head 5 and
24:30
she's like, I don't know, like maybe it's because we don't
24:33
really live in a boarding school world here.
24:35
But I can imagine for people like I would be horrified if a
24:40
friend of mine was like, Oh yeah, I'm just standing little
24:42
Steve to to a boarding school. I feel like what is going on
24:46
here? Well, I, I thought it was like,
24:48
it's like that sense of abandonment, like abandoning,
24:52
like Isabel has just abandoned her child Steve, just like
24:55
giving him away to this boarding school and his way to live her
24:59
life where she's like, what have you done?
25:01
Because she seems to want this connection with her children.
25:06
So I don't know if she's trying to like compare it with the
25:08
Caroline, but that is quite random that that's how the Part
25:12
1 ends. Well, to me, what just doesn't
25:15
add up is the fact that we already knew that that was
25:18
Isabel's like plan. And it's not like Lucy fights
25:22
are on it. And it's like, no, you can't do
25:24
that. Like we just find out that's
25:26
what Isabel is in Paris to do. And they're not leaving Paris
25:29
until they find a boarding school to drop them off at.
25:32
And then eventually we see him with his school, and it
25:35
literally ends. What have you done, Isabel?
25:37
I thought, suddenly horrified. Like what?
25:41
I think so. Maybe it's the realization of
25:43
what she's done, like the realization of she sees this
25:46
child on its own in Paris and goes, you, you know, she doesn't
25:52
want to lose her relationship with her child, whereas this
25:54
woman is desperately pushing her away.
25:56
And also, I feel like maybe because she can see bits and
25:58
pieces about Steve's future life, she knows that this isn't
26:02
going to be good for Steve and it's not going to be good for
26:05
the people in Steve's life in the future.
26:07
So I don't know. I took it.
26:08
I took it as just the action of dumping Steve.
26:12
And I think that like when we're talking about Isabel, something
26:17
that I really hate about this book, I think is really bad.
26:21
And I don't know if it's really like, I'm because I was so
26:24
confused on it. It's like Harry Potter level fat
26:29
phobia is horrific in it. It's like so bad.
26:34
It's like, why do you have to every time you introduce?
26:36
That's true. Talk about like, it's so
26:39
jarring. I hate it in a book.
26:41
Like I actually was like, I don't like reading this.
26:43
I don't like reading it when people are like, oh, the
26:46
character's really skinny. I don't need to know the, like,
26:48
exact measurements, the characters, but it's it is
26:52
grotesque the way she like sizes everybody up.
26:56
And I found it really, really difficult to read.
26:59
And at the start I was like, is this just really lazy?
27:01
Is this just like, is this just like Harry Potter, like JK
27:04
Rowling level of like if you're I just.
27:09
Oh, yeah, yeah. I found it really jarring.
27:12
But then I was like, you know, the the Herman Perot gets bigger
27:19
when he's with his family. So it's like his new family.
27:21
And it's kind of like he's, I don't know, maybe like getting
27:26
older and he's happy. So like some of the times and
27:28
with Lily, she's kind of, it's so bizarre how she's described.
27:32
It's, it's hard to read. But also at the same time,
27:35
they're like, it's not exactly. Oh, I don't know how I felt
27:41
about it. But one thing that I did find
27:43
really interesting was the obsession with with like Lily's
27:47
mom and the weight of her daughter.
27:50
I find that like, it's just so horrible, the fact that she's
27:54
saying this to like other people about her daughter that don't
27:58
know her daughter, you know, I found that really like, this is
28:01
quite like a cruel side to her. Do you remember the part at the
28:06
end where she mentions like her daughter mentioned about the
28:11
birds or the crows that come in together or something and she's
28:13
like she couldn't fly because she's too fat?
28:16
At the end I was like. Whoa, It is it is kind of
28:21
random. It's like, what is the point of
28:22
this? Like what is this conveying
28:24
through the story? Like what is she trying to
28:26
suggest here? And it just feels like heat, you
28:30
know, rather than a purposeful personal reason.
28:34
I know I'm but I'm kind of like because when I read it at the
28:37
start, I was like, come on, like wind your neck in like about
28:41
Isabella. And then it starts with Lily the
28:43
the daughter-in-law and you're like, sorry, sister-in-law.
28:46
It's like, oh, it's so it's so. No, we think it's.
28:50
A It's like because the book was originally in what, 1996?
28:56
And it's been translated, so, you know, they're just keeping
29:00
with the time, whereas we probably wouldn't do as much as
29:04
that and. I also think they were
29:06
translating, they wouldn't have put that in.
29:08
Like I think your translators make make cuts and stuff like
29:12
that for things like that to bring it into the modern era.
29:14
Like I, I think, I don't know, that feels too weird to me that
29:17
someone chose to to leave that in.
29:20
Yeah, To me, I'm like, it's she's so purposeful with her
29:22
writing and it seemed to me is this bias Lucy has, but it seems
29:27
also not, I don't know, like it really.
29:29
Where does that bias come from? Like there's no character.
29:31
It's like there's not no explanation for that.
29:33
It just is. It's so weird and I was like, I
29:36
don't like it made me uncomfortable reading it, but I
29:39
was also like, I don't want to be like because like Harry
29:42
Potter is a kids book and it's not great.
29:44
It's 1997, so it's kind of a similar era.
29:47
And it was like was this? But it's like I kind of, it's
29:52
not that I think it's better coming from a children's book.
29:54
It's obviously worse because the demographic of people reading it
29:57
will read it and really take it in and maybe be mean to people,
30:02
but I just found it really like, why is this?
30:05
Like I almost would love to hear her talk about it and be like
30:09
why did she decide to include this?
30:12
I wonder if for Lily, it was supposed to be a representation
30:18
of her pregnancy because she was pregnant and then she lost the
30:22
baby. But the way it's written is like
30:25
she had an abortion. Yeah.
30:26
She got like an A magic, a magic abortion that she knows.
30:29
I'm. Just a magical realism.
30:32
What did you guys think of Perot?
30:34
I thought he was one of the the better written.
30:40
So I I really just love that scene where he comes from home
30:42
with his we mate. I absolutely.
30:46
I think the writing is where the writing is out of take.
30:49
It's. Like you really get the
30:51
emotional sense of where he's at and it's like, so.
30:56
It's funny because he's putting on such a face, the monster
30:59
Martina or whatever. And then, like as a crumb, as
31:02
his wife and son pick him up, he's like, oh, OK.
31:06
Like this is this is all a sham. Like I was just, you know,
31:10
putting this on for your husband.
31:11
Then the husband runs with it. Like he's just like, yeah,
31:13
that's that's what I want, you know?
31:15
It's interesting because he's obviously decided to leave
31:18
beforehand because he drains their mutual account.
31:21
Yes. I just, I find that whole, like,
31:25
I think a lot of the book is dealing with the breakups in
31:28
families or the leaving and desertion of people, family
31:31
members. And it seems like Lucy is overly
31:35
focused on the one somewhat amicable split in the whole
31:40
entire book where her parents have, after 25 years of
31:44
marriage, decide to split up five years prior to the
31:48
beginning of the novel. But all of a sudden, after her
31:51
husband leaves her and all these other kind of leavings happen
31:55
because Isabel leaves her husband, Monsieur Mateen tries
31:59
to leave his wife and child. And then she's like, oh, yeah,
32:04
my parents have split up. Let me solve that one.
32:08
Yeah, but this is. Strange.
32:10
It is strange and I actually think like I was thinking about
32:13
this a bit after finishing it. That is her, the whole concept
32:17
of magic, a way that she is hoping that she can control
32:20
these things that have gone, you know, wrong in her life.
32:23
Like is that more of that? Like the magic is, if I was
32:26
capable of this, like she keeps saying mediocre, which is this
32:28
because she is incapable of fixing these problems in, in
32:33
these relationships around her, you know, because even her
32:35
daughters, she seems like she doesn't have the worst
32:36
relationship with their daughters, but it's also not
32:38
fantastic. And maybe she's like, I'm a
32:40
mediocre woman, like a mother. Do you know, like she could be
32:43
the witch thing could be motherhood.
32:45
And, and like, I am just, I'm bad at this.
32:47
And my mother was a fantastic mother, you know, but she chose
32:50
to like, no, I don't know. It's it's so ambiguous that you
32:53
like the magic must represent something.
32:56
And I kind of get a sense that it's her, like, she views other
32:59
people are so much better than her because we do that.
33:01
Like, we think that other people are so much more capable of
33:03
things that we are, even if they aren't like her mother.
33:07
Do you know, the relationship isn't good between her parents?
33:10
And it's the kind of thing, but she's still almost like viewing
33:14
it in that way. I just wanted to discuss the
33:16
whole part where she forces her parents to meet up.
33:19
And then all of a sudden, as I said at the start, like when
33:26
Lucy is working at that school that Isabel has set up, that one
33:31
day Robert Rubera shows up with her father as a snail in a
33:39
little box, which was I think like a stock cube box like, but
33:44
then leave him as a snail. Like I, when I read that, I
33:49
first started off and I was like, this is fantastic.
33:52
Like I want more. You find it so strange because
33:56
I, I think that I was kind of like feeling like I understood
34:00
some of the metaphors and I was getting a lot of the stuff and
34:03
then I was like, it isn't. So prior to the snail incident,
34:09
the mother says to her daughter, don't make me meet up with your
34:12
dad because I'm not be responsible for what I'll do.
34:15
So kind of, I don't know that we got the veiled threat of the
34:19
turning someone into a snail, but I think, you know, we knew
34:22
something bad was going to happen if they met up.
34:24
And I think something interesting is that she never
34:28
deal like her mum does try and say to her, look, I don't want
34:31
to, I don't, I don't want to be in a relationship with your
34:34
father. Things were bad.
34:35
You don't understand. And I think she does just kind
34:38
of go, OK, well, if you meet up at the seaside, you'll get
34:41
together again. It felt very Parent Trap all of
34:44
a sudden. I feel like everyone in this
34:46
book was presenting like was living a fake reality or a fake
34:54
side of life. So you have Lucy's father who
34:59
was like living this life of luxury, but actually he was
35:02
embezzling all these funds and like it wasn't his money.
35:06
And then you have her mother who was still in love with her
35:12
husband, but uh, like, and he's a powerful witch but is like
35:18
pretending that she's not and like has started this new
35:22
relationship. And then Robert, Robert is like
35:26
living this life as the grandfather and it's like they
35:30
only got together 10 days ago. So like, why is he like faking
35:35
this entire like history of this relationship?
35:40
And then you have Lucy, who's, uh, like trying to hold
35:45
everything together, but she can't.
35:48
I don't know if she's necessarily faking anything.
35:50
But then you have Isabel, who has set up this school that she
35:55
doesn't even care about what's taught.
35:57
She's just trying to like milk the money like everyone is like
36:01
living. And then you have the Monsher,
36:04
whatever his name is, who, who came to the house and he's like
36:08
living this fake reality where he's like, I'm leaving my wife.
36:11
Oh no, I'll go back home. And then he like runs it like
36:15
why is everyone like living a fake reality?
36:18
And is that maybe just is it telling us that that is reality,
36:21
that everyone is presenting themselves in a specific way,
36:25
but behind it all like that, that they're not really living
36:28
that life? I like that take on it because I
36:31
think it's almost kind of like, was that one we read audition in
36:35
the sense of like everybody when it comes to families?
36:41
Is it all just like play acting? Do we really like, I don't know
36:47
that like there's such such an unknowability about other people
36:50
and you have these bonds and you kind of you have this structure
36:54
of how like a family is supposed to work and things don't always
36:57
like fit into those neat like packages.
37:01
But yet we all try and pretend that we are doing it like that.
37:04
We are being like the perfect like be it mother, father,
37:08
daughter, any, any of those kind of things.
37:10
It reminds me kind of like your public self and your private
37:14
self, you, they're two complete different people in that sense.
37:18
So, but I do like your take on that, Aaron, of like the way
37:21
they're trying to present themselves in the public, but
37:24
really in reality, it's just like so different.
37:28
Maybe this adds into your kind of theory, Aaron, but at the end
37:32
there, she's in a jail cell. And yes, I really.
37:36
Wanted to chat about this as well because I need someone to
37:38
explain the whole ending like let's get into it.
37:42
There's like a young man who's the the police officer and he's
37:47
like having this like really nice conversation with his
37:49
family and his daughter. And he's like being really
37:52
lovely dad. And then all of a sudden he
37:54
turns to her and he like sets her like cell on fire and he's
37:58
really horrible about her. And I kind of took that.
38:02
I don't know how exactly to understand that.
38:05
But is it because she's no longer in that family
38:09
environment? She's kind of because her
38:11
husband has left her, her children have left her.
38:14
There's nothing tethering her to the family.
38:19
And it's like, he sees that and he's like, well, then this is my
38:22
wife and my daughter and they're perfect.
38:23
And they're part of this family and you're not, and I'm going to
38:26
burn you like the witch you are. Which is again, like, yeah.
38:30
Well, what do you guys think? I think this was where maybe
38:36
Lucy was starting to lose it and she was actually seeing visions
38:41
of him in the future or him in the past and mixing it with
38:44
reality. So I didn't actually interpret
38:46
that his family, that his family were there.
38:49
I just was seeing it that she was like seeing these visions of
38:54
him as a father while he was also like trying to kill her.
38:58
What what do we think of the fact she was arrested?
39:01
She was arrested for being a fraud because she wasn't
39:05
actually telling the future of her students.
39:09
And but she kind of she was and she wasn't.
39:12
And like what? The other teachers at that
39:15
school were obviously faking and Isabel was obviously faking the
39:20
entire like setup of the school. But then Isabel is like, like so
39:25
ashamed that that she like fakes to her students.
39:29
And is it just because she got caught or?
39:33
I think that Lucy is probably fundamentally bad at faking
39:37
things. And I think that everybody else
39:38
is like fake, as we've talked about like rules and stuff.
39:41
Everybody else is like faking. There's really well and she's
39:44
like, she's not doing any of these things well.
39:48
And I, I saw that as a representation of that.
39:49
I thought it was interesting that there's like all these
39:51
other teachers and they're all really poor women who have like
39:55
been taken from these situations.
39:56
And she mentions like some of them have husbands and fathers,
39:59
sorry husbands and children and but they now are working in this
40:03
school and they all were desperate to get a job in the
40:06
school and I find. I don't know the meaning of the
40:09
whole thing, but they seemed to also be very aware of the fact
40:13
that they wouldn't have this job and this luck for very long,
40:17
which intrigued me because I was like, I don't really get, I
40:20
don't get what you're trying to say here.
40:23
Could it the I could be diving way off the deep end here, but
40:27
could it be something to do with brothels?
40:31
But I was thinking, I kind of, I kind of had that feeling of in a
40:34
way of like sex work, you know, it kind of felt like all these
40:38
women were coming together in this.
40:39
But I again, I think this maybe comes back to that the
40:42
witchiness of like women, like witches have always been used as
40:46
a way to like demonize women. Like, you know, the concept of
40:49
like these cruel, cruel, high, like women like, you know, the
40:54
thing about the witch hunt. So it was always like women
40:56
could like for the, the weaker, the weaker members of society
41:01
and they would have been easy, easily taught easy targets for
41:04
this kind of like stuff. And I think that's kind of
41:06
what's happening here is like, is it because these women are
41:09
have been like, I don't know, maybe they've almost chosen to
41:14
adopt the term, which because they think they are lesser or
41:17
something. But then that then goes against
41:21
the whole thing where she's seen other people are they're great
41:24
witches. So I don't know.
41:25
I don't know. It seems that it like, does
41:28
Marie even know the like what she's doing here?
41:31
She just throwing things in at the wall and over that we pick
41:35
up on it. I something that I find
41:38
interesting. So it ends on the Perot's mother
41:42
talking about Lily and she's I because I feel like the whole
41:48
book is pretty magical realism. E everyone kind of tuned a
41:51
degree accepts the fact that Lucy, her mother and her
41:54
children are witches. And there's not like the men in
41:58
their lives seem to want to avoid it and don't want to speak
42:01
about it, but they still kind of acknowledge it to an extent.
42:04
So all of a sudden I feel like it breaks out of the magical
42:08
realism a little bit in the sense that it seems like Lily is
42:13
really affected by the magic. It seems like everybody else
42:15
kind of takes it in their stride.
42:18
And then she actually has in the last page a consequence of the
42:23
magic. And then I think it as well, it
42:26
kind of threw shade on the rest of the book because you're like,
42:30
is any of this magic? But but like, I think we could
42:34
guess and guess as much as we want about this, but I don't
42:37
think we're ever going to get an answer.
42:38
Like it's not like we're uncovering something like I
42:41
think it is just like this. Like at least with audition, we
42:44
all ended up with our own reads of it and very definitive reads.
42:49
You know, this is not this, this is like too loose.
42:52
It's like, I don't even think it knows what it's trying to be.
42:55
Do you know? And I think that's that kind of
42:58
shows maybe a weakness in the in the sort of like like in the
43:02
actual writing of it. Like I like the plotting of it.
43:05
I mean, not the writing, but like, I don't know.
43:08
I don't know. I think I kind of do feel like
43:11
I'm just getting fragments of like familial relations and
43:15
fragments of how these things work and I don't know, I love
43:19
things like that. But I do think there is it is
43:20
lacking something concrete that you can be like XY and Z, but I
43:26
don't think I necessarily require that.
43:28
I think it's, yeah. I don't know that I necessarily
43:31
100% understand it, but I feel like there's something it hits
43:36
to something emotional. This book really, really
43:41
reminded me of the Marvel TV show One Division.
43:44
Colin, I know you've seen it, but Lucy and Hannah, have either
43:48
of you seen it? No, I'm not a nerd.
43:50
No. OK, Colin, did did you get the
43:54
the exact like feelings excited? No, I think, I think one
43:59
division is so much more concrete and it's so much better
44:02
than this. This is like so loose.
44:04
Okay, yes, but let me draw the comparisons, especially the way
44:08
this started. It was very suburban.
44:10
One division is based on a witch living with a husband that she
44:15
has created in her own mind, twin children that she has
44:20
created in her own mind that also develop powers, and they
44:24
have a nosy neighbor who keeps coming into the house who is
44:29
actually a witch. And who's like seems to be
44:33
pulling the threads all along or something?
44:35
Yes. Pulling the threads all along
44:38
and eventually in the sequel series 2 on division Agatha all
44:43
along and we then find Agatha has developed her own coven in
44:51
which she has found women that are magical, but the kind of
44:56
magic that they're they're trying to live as witches in the
45:00
modern day. So they're selling like scented
45:02
candles and herbs and they're doing tarot card reading.
45:05
So it's like that kind of like modern version of a witch, but
45:08
they actually do have authentic powers behind it.
45:11
So I I was like, well, Marvel has really taken so much
45:15
inspiration from this book. No, I know.
45:18
I think what it is is that it's just witches are always attached
45:21
to fiend to women. I think that's it.
45:23
And I think, but I think it's always been a represent.
45:26
Every every which book I've ever read is a representation of
45:29
like, you know, women's lives and like the inner workings and
45:33
stuff. Like, but there's so many books
45:35
that deal with like womanhood through which witchery.
45:38
And I think that, yes, you're saying like one division has the
45:41
same things where all these books sort of have that same
45:44
sort of thing and which is, are used as a representation of, of,
45:48
of women, you know, and like, and like the power of women, but
45:51
also like how, how wicked they can be.
45:53
And also like the complexities of like, you know, moral
45:57
decisions and stuff. I don't know.
45:58
I think that's, yeah, OK. I, I, I like it, but I'm like, I
46:02
don't think Marvel took any inspiration from this.
46:05
So just what we're talking about, the suburban stuff, I
46:09
have to say this is when Isabel was at her best, when she was
46:13
the nosy neighbor who would just show up.
46:15
And whenever the daughters were sent to go get pizza with money.
46:21
And she shows up and she's like, you owe me change.
46:23
But actually, I'm here just to see who your unexpected guest
46:27
is. And then whenever the wife shows
46:29
up and Isabel is like walking down the street like, so she can
46:33
like, see who who is driving this car.
46:37
And she's just like, like, her eyes are glued on the House.
46:40
What did we think of the random woman who says hello, sister to
46:44
Lucy? The woman dressed in yellow and
46:47
she's like, I'm not your sister, but she's also like, I'll wait
46:51
around outside your house and wait for you to come out again.
46:54
Yeah, I don't understand that at all.
46:56
Yeah, I reckon there's probably something to that.
46:58
Do I know what it is? No.
47:01
Is it just, is it like outright saying like sisterhood, like
47:05
women can connect with each other and you can probably
47:08
connect with a random person on the street that you don't know
47:11
anything about this book. There's not that much in it.
47:14
Like I read this within one day basically, which is unheard of
47:17
for me. Umm, well, like without
47:19
audiobook, like for me to read an entire book in a day.
47:22
Do you remember when the storm happens whenever they get to the
47:25
mother-in-law house? I think that was Lucy.
47:30
She says, oh, my daughters must have started the storm because
47:33
it wasn't predicted. But I think Lucy doesn't
47:35
actually know how powerful she is.
47:37
And then at different points, I, it made me look back on the book
47:44
and think, oh, has Lucy actually had an impact here?
47:48
She just doesn't realize that she has had a hand in this and
47:52
that something has has happened. But yeah, I think she started
47:56
the storm because it wouldn't have made any sense for her
48:00
daughters to have started the storm.
48:01
And I think that it was just her projection of how she was
48:05
feeling. I was thinking though, there's
48:07
something about confidence. I don't think she would even
48:11
recognize that she would be the one to start the storm.
48:14
She just always thinks someone else is more powerful than her,
48:17
better than her. I think as well there's like the
48:21
daughters aren't arrogant and I don't know that they necessarily
48:25
have these like I think they do obviously, like if we're going
48:27
with the it's definitely magical, then they do.
48:30
They do have clearly quite they believe in themselves more than
48:35
she does. So therefore they're probably
48:37
more capable of things. I like like they are so
48:41
confident and they know themselves and I think they know
48:43
their place in the world and they know what's going on.
48:46
Whereas I think Lucy has the self doubt has like bled into
48:51
every part of her life and to every relationship and and her
48:56
building up of other people has brought herself down so low that
49:00
I don't think she has an accurate picture of everything
49:03
that's happening, which I think causes her to be this unreliable
49:06
narrator kind of against her own will.
49:09
And I think she wants to be somewhat fair about things, but
49:11
I think she she doesn't have that ability.
49:14
And I think it's more than the magic.
49:17
She doesn't understand what's going on and she can't
49:19
understand what's going on. I wanted to ask you, Colin, the
49:22
name. Would you rename it?
49:25
I don't. I've been trying to think and I
49:27
actually think there's just so little in this book to actually
49:29
give it a new name, if you know what I mean.
49:31
Like the witch is kind of like a perineum.
49:34
Like I just don't think that sets us apart from other other
49:37
things. But in terms of title, it's
49:39
like, I don't know what you call this, Like I really don't know.
49:43
I thought the title was quite bland.
49:45
Something that I find interesting is what is the title
49:49
in French is like, and I don't want to say this because I'm not
49:53
languages, but it's like la sorcerer, sorcerer.
49:59
Well, it's the word or like us, like we have such connotations,
50:04
I think here with like the word witch and it can kind of be
50:08
brought down quite a bit and it kind of is a bit it's a bit
50:13
blonde as a name, as a name. I actually think if you use the
50:16
word sorcerer, it would give it this like real grandioseness
50:20
that it doesn't have, which I think would add something to a
50:23
title of a book. Like the idea that she's a
50:25
sorcerer, which I think is given more props than a witch in in
50:30
the hierarchy of magic in my head.
50:32
So I, I like the idea that it would make her out to be more
50:38
magical than she is in the title.
50:42
So yeah, it could be translated as the sorceress.
50:44
And I actually think the sorceress would be better
50:46
because it kind of gives it a stranger.
50:49
She is very much what we think of as a witch in the sense of
50:51
it's a bit more bland and a bit lower down.
50:54
But I think that giving it like a bit more oomph with the
50:58
sorceress and then finding out she is this banal witch who
51:02
doesn't believe in herself is kind of interesting.
51:04
I feel like you could even call it something like the mother or
51:08
the daughter. Yeah, Mother witch or something.
51:11
And I thought before going into reading this book, I thought it
51:15
was going to be because I didn't look at the blurb or anything.
51:18
I thought it was going to be set in the olden times.
51:21
I didn't think it was going to be anything modern.
51:24
And I kind of like the modern. It's kind of Sabrina the Teenage
51:26
Witch vibes, but I think it it kind of like sets up the wrong
51:34
idea of what the book's going to be about.
51:36
I don't think like titles are supposed to give you some sort
51:38
of inkling or like, or even a inversion of what the book is
51:41
going to be about. I just don't think this actually
51:43
I don't know, does enough. Did anyone have any suggestions
51:47
of other similar books? If you like a witchy story and
51:53
you like a horror book as well, may I suggest to you Maggie's
52:00
Grave by David Sodergren? I think that's how you fought
52:03
it. If you also like Scottish horror
52:05
books with a bit of witches, I would go for that one.
52:09
I mean, it has not a lot of relevance other than she's a
52:12
witch and it's and stuff to do with motherhood.
52:16
But you know, if you're right there and you want something a
52:19
bit different, I would give it a go.
52:21
For the fat phobia, go Harry Potter.
52:24
Early Harry Potter. It's also got witches in it.
52:26
But if you want to hear a characterization of fat people,
52:31
you have a book for yourself right now.
52:34
If you love, if you, if you love that element of Harry Potter and
52:37
you didn't really like the magic that much, you wanted the magic
52:39
to be more ambiguous, this is the book for you.
52:43
If anyone else out there has watched One Division, which I'm
52:45
sure plenty of you have, then please let me know if you also
52:49
get the comparisons or if you're like Colin and you think that I
52:53
am just seeing things that are are not actually inspired by
52:59
each other. What about them?
53:01
Read it and eat it. You're a Colin.
53:03
'S favorite. I mean, I did make some
53:06
chocolate cookies here because Lucy's mother on one stage opens
53:11
cookies and gives them to her. So it was kind of an easy little
53:14
bake this week. I already had frozen cookies in
53:17
the freezer, so all I had to do was was actually bake them up.
53:21
But yeah, they're nice. I mean, I've been eating them
53:23
for the last like, few days, so they're they're really good.
53:26
But these ones are freshly baked for today.
53:28
Let's write this book and give our bookies odds on whether or
53:31
not this book will win, I said. Now we're cooking with gas in
53:34
regards to writing ability. So I do think though, there were
53:41
times where I was like I, and again, I'm going to say this, I
53:43
think I didn't enjoy the ending as much as I enjoyed the
53:46
beginning and I didn't necessarily understand where the
53:49
strands were going. So I'm going to give this a four
53:51
because I think the writing, again, absolutely excellent.
53:54
And do I think it's going to win?
53:55
Absolutely not. I would be so surprised if this
53:59
got near the winning. I would love it to win, but I
54:04
yeah, there's no way this is going to win.
54:06
So I'd be very surprised. Not that I've said that again
54:08
because I'm very unlucky. It will win, but it's definitely
54:11
not going to win. I I really wouldn't say it
54:13
winning. So I'm going to give this three
54:15
out of five. It was good, really good at some
54:19
parts, and then other parts not so much.
54:24
Interesting Concepts did remind me of Audition, where I like
54:29
that it's a little bit experimental, but at the same
54:32
time I don't know if I'd necessarily got it all.
54:36
So worth a read, but I don't think I would have enjoyed it if
54:41
I didn't have this discussion to have about it as well.
54:45
And I really felt like I had to push through to the end where it
54:49
did kind of become a little bit more wacky at the start.
54:53
I was like, okay, like push it along like you're magic, but
54:57
you're not really magic. There's not much happening here,
55:00
so I don't think it's going to win.
55:03
So I think this is kind of very middle of the road for me.
55:06
I think I'm probably going to give it a three out of five.
55:09
I did like the writing and I think the concepts are good, but
55:11
I just oh, man, like, where's the content?
55:15
You know, like where where's the things that are concrete work?
55:17
What can I take away from this? Like it just feels so like
55:21
that's it, you know, And I'm not going to remember this book
55:23
after this. I thought I would love this
55:25
book. And I'm like leaving this being
55:27
like, oh, I don't know, a bit disappointed in the entire
55:31
concept. Thank God it's short because I
55:33
think I would have been annoyed if I'd spend a lot of time
55:35
reading this and this was it, you know?
55:36
And so again, a three, mostly because it was like well written
55:39
and I did enjoy it. If I just think overall, like if
55:43
this wins the burka, I don't know what's happened.
55:45
Like like I like How to get this far?
55:48
I feel like I'm the exact same as the boys, like it's a three
55:52
out of five for me completely. Sorry, Lizzie, you not roll your
55:55
eyes at me. So when I had read, you know,
56:00
the blurb for this one, I got really excited and I was like,
56:03
it's giving me real international booger vibes.
56:06
And then I read it and I was like just left a bit
56:08
disappointed. Like, I really like the writing,
56:12
but I just feel like it just needed a bit more of something
56:15
in it. Or like maybe a bit more like
56:18
cohesiveness with the magical realism.
56:21
I know that sounds really bizarre to put those two things
56:24
kind of together, but I just feel like it was missing like a
56:26
little bit more for me. Like last night I read 95 pages
56:31
and I was just a bit like, OK, like there was nothing in it
56:35
really that was grabbing me to like push on or like really
56:38
excited to read, but I will give it the props or the right and
56:42
think it was really good. But I can't see this one winning
56:45
the Booker. But you never know.
56:48
I'm I'm still like going to remember this book because of
56:51
snail dad. So that's going to stick with me
56:53
for a really long time. Join the book club and read
56:57
along with us. The next book we're tackling on
56:59
the shortlist is The Nights Are Quiet in Tehran by Sheeda Baziar
57:04
and translated from German by Ruth Martin.
57:06
If you liked your discussion on this book and you like stories
57:09
which are incoherent in their telling of family matters and
57:15
timelines, then you might enjoy our discussion on Audition by by
57:20
Katie Kitamara. Or socials an e-mail or in the
57:23
description. Share your thoughts on the
57:25
shortlist, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and rate
57:28
US five stars. Let's end on a quote from The
57:30
Witch. Every day, my talent seemed to
57:33
fade a bit more. What was it about me, I asked
57:36
myself, that kept me from being a good witch?
57:38
Did I lack the will, the intensity, the rage?
57:41
Most of all, I thought what I lacked was a taste for power and
57:45
a disdain for fate. Bookie.
57:54
Bye. Bye.
57:56
Goodbye.