Latest / Deadly Divas True Crime Podcast / Episode 36: The Idaho 4 Murders

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Episode 36: The Idaho 4 Murders · Deadly Divas True Crime Podcast

• 0:13
  Hello, all you true crime divas and dudes.
• 0:15
  I'm Sarah.
• 0:15
  Welcome back to your favorite true crime podcast, Deadly Divas.
• 0:19
  And I'm Gina.
• 0:20
  And if you're new here, welcome.
• 0:22
  We break down a new true crime case for you every Friday.
• 0:26
  And don't forget to follow us on Facebook and TikTok, and subscribe if you want to listen to all of our bonus episodes.
• 0:33
  Today, we are covering a case that includes the brutal stabbing murders of four college students.
• 0:40
  So if this may be a trigger for you, please listen at your own discretion.
• 0:45
  Yes.
• 0:46
  Today, we are covering the true crime case of the four Idaho college students who were found murdered in their home.
• 0:52
  Netflix just released a new documentary called The Idaho Murders: College Nightmare, and that's what inspired us to do this episode instead of Heather Elvis this week.
• 1:02
  But you can listen to Heather's story in a couple of weeks, we promise.
• 1:06
  So in 2022, in Moscow, Idaho, five female students who attended the University of Idaho shared an off-campus house located at 1122 King Road.
• 1:19
  It was a three-story house with six bedrooms, two on each floor.
• 1:23
  The two college students who resided in the third floor bedrooms were Kaylee Goncalves and Madison Mogen, who was known as Maddie.
• 1:32
  The second floor bedrooms were rented by Xana Kernodle and Dylan Mortensen.
• 1:37
  And on the first floor, a student named Bethany Funke rented a bedroom.
• 1:42
  At the time of the incident, Xana's boyfriend, Ethan Chapin, was staying at the house in her room.
• 1:48
  Although he did not officially live there, he did stay there about 90% of the time, and he was often referred to lovingly as the sixth roommate.
• 1:58
  Now, on the night of November 13th, 2022, Xana, Ethan, Maddie, and Kaylee would lose their lives inside the house that should have been their safe place.
• 2:09
  Dylan and Bethany, despite being home at the time, were fortunate enough to survive the attack, but obviously will live with the trauma for the rest of their lives.
• 2:19
  So before we dive into the events of that night and how the investigation unfolds, let's look at these four individuals who lost their lives, what they brought to the world before their ability to bloom into amazing adults was cut so short.
• 2:32
  Kaylee and Maddie had been best friends since early childhood.
• 2:36
  Maddie was just 21 and studying for a degree in marketing.
• 2:40
  She was part of a sorority and worked as a waitress at a local establishment.
• 2:45
  She was actually born in Oregon, but her family moved to Idaho when she was two, and there she met Kaylee in elementary school.
• 2:53
  She was the only child of Benjamin and Karen.
• 2:57
  Kaylee was also twenty-one.
• 2:59
  She was born in California to Kristi and Steve, and she had four siblings.
• 3:03
  The family moved to Idaho shortly after her first birthday.
• 3:07
  Kaylee was due to graduate just a month later in December twenty twenty-two, and she had already landed a job in Texas that she was super excited to start I mean, you talk about somebody with their whole lives ahead of them, like, there's not a more clear example.
• 3:25
  She was gonna graduate.
• 3:26
  She had a job lined up, and just completely ripped away.
• 3:32
  I've been working on this script, and that particular page I probably wrote a week ago and have read, like, 15 times, and you just said it was hot in here, and I just got chills reading it again.
• 3:42
  So Xana was 20.
• 3:43
  She was born and raised in Idaho to parents Jeff and Kara.
• 3:47
  Xana had a sister, Jasmine, and a brother, Elijah.
• 3:51
  Her mother had issues with substance abuse, but Xana was very close to her dad, even though he did travel a lot for work.
• 3:58
  Now, Xana was studying for a degree in marketing at the university, and that's where she met Ethan Chapin.
• 4:03
  They had been happily dating for about a year.
• 4:06
  They were both known to be very outgoing, the life of the party, and everyone said they were a perfect match.
• 4:14
  Ethan Chapin was 21.
• 4:15
  He was born in Washington, and he was one of a set of triplets born to Jim and Stacy.
• 4:21
  He was very close to his parents and the other triplets, Maisy and Hunter.
• 4:26
  All three of the triplets attended the University of Idaho, and Ethan was studying for a recreation, sport, and tourism management major.
• 4:35
  Apparently, he would have had some kind of sporting scholarship, but something didn't work out there.
• 4:41
  So all four of them had bright futures and leave behind loving, grieving families and friends.
• 4:48
  So now let's take a look at the events leading up to the intruder and the attacks.
• 4:53
  On the evening of Sunday, November 12th, and I know that a lot of the documentaries and everything go into what they did that entire day.
• 5:01
  Mm-hmm.
• 5:01
  But it doesn't have any relevance.
• 5:04
  Yeah.
• 5:04
  And they were just being college students on a Saturday.
• 5:07
  Right.
• 5:07
  They were just living their lives- Right on the evening of Saturday the 12th, as you would expect for college students in their 20s, they all had plans for a fun social evening.
• 5:17
  Kaylee and Maddie went to a local hangout called The Corner Club from around 10:00 PM until around 1:30 AM.
• 5:23
  Then they went and got food from a well-known food truck called The Grub Truck before a friend gave them a ride home, and they got back at 1:56 AM.
• 5:33
  So apparently they did know this person, but it was more like an Uber service that was just for the college.
• 5:38
  I forget what they call it, Safe Ride or something they called it.
• 5:40
  Right.
• 5:41
  And I think that's amazing that they have that.
• 5:42
  That's, that's really cool.
• 5:43
  Yeah.
• 5:44
  So Xana stayed home while Ethan accompanied his sister Maisy to her formal because Maisy didn't have a boyfriend at the time to go with.
• 5:51
  But later on, the couple met up, and they went to his Sigma Chi fraternity house, and then arrived back at the King Road residence around 1:45 AM.
• 6:01
  Xana placed a DoorDash order to Jack in the Box sometime later.
• 6:05
  It was dropped off around 4:00 AM, and she was posting to TikTok up to around 4:12 AM Now around 4:30 AM, Dylan was awoken by some noises and voices Peering out of her door, she didn't see anything, so she didn't think too much of it at first.
• 6:26
  Then she heard an unknown male voice, so she looked out her door again, but still saw nothing.
• 6:32
  Her and Bethany, who was a floor below her in her own bedroom, started to text each other, being a little too scared to leave their rooms, and neither of them being able to reach any of the other roommates by phone or text.
• 6:43
  So Dylan peeks out of her room for a third time to see a figure dressed all in black, wearing a black mask, run past her and exit through a side sliding door that was always unlocked.
• 6:57
  That is horrifying.
• 6:58
  That is straight out of a horror movie.
• 7:01
  Right.
• 7:02
  It brings to mind- Scream?
• 7:04
  like Scream.
• 7:05
  Yeah.
• 7:06
  The mask, the I'm inside your house.
• 7:08
  Mm-hmm.
• 7:09
  I've heard conflicting things about the door.
• 7:11
  Some people say it was just left unlocked all the time because this was the kind of party house where everybody came and went all the time, so everybody knew that that side door was unlocked.
• 7:18
  Other people said the lock was actually broken.
• 7:20
  Right which is why it was never locked.
• 7:22
  I'm going for the it just happened to be unlocked, because an interview with one of the girls, she says,"We hadn't locked it that day," which indicates the lock wasn't broken.
• 7:30
  Right.
• 7:31
  I don't want to- So trying to wade my way through all of these different reports.
• 7:33
  Anyway, it was common knowledge that the door was either unlocked due to a broken lock or just unlocked in general.
• 7:39
  Now, after seeing this figure run by her, for some reason, she seemed to think it was a firefighter due to the way he was dressed, and she locked herself in her bedroom.
• 7:49
  Now, remember, it's also very late at night, and she's had a lot to drink, and apparently, she was known for having these, like, weird dreams and stuff when she had been drinking a lot.
• 7:58
  I wanna discuss this on the after show.
• 8:00
  Yeah.
• 8:00
  But yeah.
• 8:01
  So after texting back and forth with Bethany some, Bethany persuades her to make a run for it down to her bedroom on the first floor.
• 8:09
  So she emerges from her room and makes her way to Bethany's room, on the way passing the body of Xana, who was lying just inside her bedroom, but she believed to Xana to be drunk and passed out.
• 8:21
  But Ethan was with her, so she figured Xana was being taken care of.
• 8:26
  Yeah.
• 8:26
  So she continues to Bethany's room, where the two girls lock themselves in.
• 8:30
  They continue to try and get hold of the roommates and discuss what Dylan had seen and heard, but eventually, being exhausted from the night out, the late hour, and the stress of it all, they fall asleep.
• 8:42
  When they wake up later in the morning, it all seems like Dylan just had a really bad dream, which, as I said earlier, she was often known to do so after a night of drinking.
• 8:49
  She had these, like, really vivid dreams- Right she would tell everybody about, and so it seemed like the on- only logical explanation.
• 8:57
  Mm-hmm.
• 8:58
  Well, you just don't assume that there was a intruder, do you?
• 9:01
  Right.
• 9:02
  However, when they still cannot get any response from the other four individuals in the house, they start to panic.
• 9:09
  So they call their close friends who live in a neighboring building to come over to the house to help check up on everything just in case.
• 9:16
  Now, they called Emily Who was, um, like the little sister in the sorority- Mm-hmm Of one of them.
• 9:23
  But thank goodness One of the male friends, Hunter, decides that he should enter the house first, and he doesn't let Emily in.
• 9:32
  And he finds Xana and Ethan unconscious on the floor, and he immediately tells everyone,"Get out the house." And he stops Emily, who was a close friend of the girls who, who lived in the house, from going any further into the house.
• 9:47
  And this guy just, for a young student, he acted very well, I thought.
• 9:51
  He was a hero that day.
• 9:52
  Yeah.
• 9:53
  No doubt.
• 9:54
  He tells them,"Go outside, call the police, and let them know that Xana is not waking up." And then he goes back into the house to actually check the pulse of Xana and Ethan.
• 10:05
  I mean, he knows what he's seen.
• 10:07
  So the girls outside call the police around 11:55 AM, and notify the police that their friend isn't waking up, which at the time was the only information they had, because that's all Hunter had said, and he was the only one that had seen the s- the scene inside.
• 10:24
  Well, Hunter cannot find a pulse on either of his friends, but he collects a knife from the kitchen and checks the closets in Xana's room, looking to see if anybody else was in there.
• 10:35
  Which, I don't know, I don't know if I would've done that.
• 10:38
  But at least he didn't go around the whole house with the knife looking for the intruder.
• 10:41
  Right.
• 10:42
  But, I mean, grabbing a knife when something like that's gone on, can't blame him there.
• 10:47
  No, definitely not.
• 10:48
  But I can see how it would look suspicious.
• 10:50
  Yes, correct.
• 10:52
  So many questions have been asked about this gap in the timeline between what Dylan heard and saw, and the two girls contacting their friends and in turn the police.
• 11:04
  Which Bethany and Dylan explain as a mixture of intoxication and shock, and police also state that it is not unusual for young adults who have experienced such trauma and fear to go into a state of disbelief, which is why it takes a while to accept and deal with what they're seeing.
• 11:20
  Which does back up the girls' claim that it seemed all like it was a bad dream at first.
• 11:26
  Now, it is confirmed later that even if immediate help had been summoned, the outcome would have been the same.
• 11:32
  Right.
• 11:34
  So on arrival, the girls hysterically tell officers that their friend is inside the house and unresponsive.
• 11:42
  The officers enter the house to find Hunter holding a knife in the kitchen.
• 11:47
  He explains to them why and what he saw, and they escort him out of the house to wait with the rest of the students while they search the rest of the property.
• 11:56
  I'm just thinking, there, there can't be a worse look on a crime scene than- No the police walk in and see you with a knife, and there are four bodies.
• 12:03
  I think that he's very lucky the way that the police reacted to him,'cause you see it on the body cam footage that, he immediately puts the knife down.
• 12:11
  They ask him for ID.
• 12:12
  Right.
• 12:12
  He doesn't have it.
• 12:13
  But I mean, they could have gone in guns drawn and- Just shot him dead.
• 12:16
  Yeah.
• 12:17
  Yeah Yeah.
• 12:19
  The police then find the lifeless bodies of Xana and Ethan, not just unconscious, but not breathing and surrounded by a horrific scene which has been described as a river of blood.
• 12:31
  Mm.
• 12:32
  As the couple ap- appear to have been fatally stabbed, immediately they realize this is a crime scene and remove all the students from the residential area, I would say.
• 12:43
  So, like across the street, they ask them to go over to the dumpster.
• 12:46
  Some of them try to go off to friends' houses to be comforted, which I understand, but they were like,"No, nobody leave." So they request that nobody leaves the scene, and then they search the rest of the premises, and they have no idea if this killer is even still inside.
• 12:59
  Mm.
• 13:01
  They crime scene tape the house off and ask the friends who came over and found the bodies if anybody else is in the house, to which the girls state that their other roommates, Kaylee and Maddie, should be on the third floor.
• 13:14
  The police proceed to search the rest of the house, and on the third floor, they find the bodies of Kaylee and Maddie, also deceased, also covered in blood, also stabbed to death.
• 13:25
  Now, apparently, student deaths are more common than you would think, with the Moscow Police Department reporting an average, and this shocked me, of one student death per school year, average.
• 13:38
  Wow.
• 13:39
  Now, usually it's a vehicle accident, or it's a drinking or partying or hazing affair that's gone wrong.
• 13:47
  One year, a student even froze to death while trying to find his way home after a night of drinking.
• 13:54
  That is horrific.
• 13:54
  Apparently, he'd been hazed.
• 13:56
  He'd been drinking a lot, and everywhere that he stopped and asked for like,"Hey, can I come in and use your phone?" Or whatever, everybody was like freaked out and said no, and he was found frozen to death under a bridge.
• 14:06
  We need to do an episode on this hazing, because you're- Yeah, I told you constantly hearing stories of hazing gone wrong where people die.
• 14:13
  There are more than enough stories of death and serious injury that this should be stopped.
• 14:19
  And of course, this was considered an accident, because- Right what he'd done was he'd stumbled and fallen into the river, and he didn't drown.
• 14:26
  He'd managed to get himself out of the river, but because this was Idaho and he was wet- Mm-hmm and he couldn't get home, and also, I mean, alcohol lowers your body temperature anyway, he froze to death.
• 14:38
  What a horrible way to die.
• 14:39
  Horrible story.
• 14:40
  Mm.
• 14:40
  Yeah.
• 14:41
  But this was something else.
• 14:43
  This was a quadruple homicide and a scene like none of these police officers had ever seen before and will never forget.
• 14:51
  The Moscow Police Department immediately called the Idaho State Police for assistance.
• 14:55
  They know that this is out of their league, you know?
• 14:58
  Mm-hmm.
• 14:58
  And the dean of the university's also notified.
• 15:02
  The first thing they notice is the back door to the property was open.
• 15:07
  None of them had used the back door to enter or exit the house, and they also notice a large shoe print in the snow just outside that back door.
• 15:15
  Hmm.
• 15:17
  Noteworthy at the time.
• 15:19
  So no weapon can be found, but a knife sheath is found lying in one of the bedrooms.
• 15:25
  It was actually next to Maddie's body, so in the third floor bedroom The authorities start to question Bethany and Dylan about who the deceased people are and what happened the night before, as well as what she saw and heard during the night.
• 15:40
  In the meantime, the university sends out what they call Vandal Alerts, which alert students and families of urgent matters on campus.
• 15:49
  Now, the first one states there's been an incident, but the second one states there has been a homicide, and everyone is to shelter in place.
• 15:57
  Now, unfortunately, these alerts were sent to everybody, including the victims' families, before official identifications and notifications can be made.
• 16:07
  And this is a college campus, and rumors travel fast, and unfortunately, some of the parents were getting Facebook messages saying,"Sorry for your loss," before they'd even been contacted by police.
• 16:17
  That detail is just absolutely heart-wrenching to find out about.
• 16:21
  Can you imagine the panic?
• 16:23
  No.
• 16:24
  Well, you don't know.
• 16:25
  You want it confirmed.
• 16:25
  It's just a Facebook message.
• 16:27
  Mm-hmm.
• 16:27
  No one's told me.
• 16:28
  I've got the Vandal Alert saying there's been a homicide, and then I get people texting me,"Sorry for your loss." I'm still confused.
• 16:34
  Mm-hmm.
• 16:34
  I'm still panicking.
• 16:35
  I need confirmation.
• 16:36
  Yeah, and actually, I have kind of a firsthand experience with this, and please forgive me, because I cannot remember the girl's name, but the girl that was murdered at UGA a couple of years ago, um, you know, my niece goes to UGA.
• 16:51
  Yeah.
• 16:51
  And she was on campus that day, and I was getting those texts, and I was...
• 16:56
  And thankfully, like, she had reached out to me, so I knew exactly what was going on.
• 17:01
  Right.
• 17:01
  But if, if I had no idea, if I had not talked to my niece, just sheer panic if I got those texts.
• 17:08
  Right.
• 17:08
  Evan was at KSU.
• 17:09
  He was living at an off-campus, uh, student apartment complex.
• 17:13
  Mm-hmm.
• 17:13
  And there was a shooting there one night.
• 17:15
  And of course, the first thing, you get the alert.
• 17:17
  Yeah.
• 17:17
  Uh, shooting at whatever apartments, and you know that that's where your kid lives.
• 17:21
  Mm-hmm.
• 17:21
  And the first thing you do is try and get ahold of them.
• 17:23
  Yeah.
• 17:23
  Yeah, horrifying.
• 17:24
  So I can't imagine if at the same time somebody's messaging you on Facebook saying,"Sorry for your loss." I mean, you would just I don't even know how, how I would act Unbearable.
• 17:35
  Well, the friends start to call and notify the parents and the siblings of the victims that something terrible has happened, and they all start to head towards Moscow.
• 17:44
  Now, the friends are calling.
• 17:46
  They don't know the details.
• 17:47
  You know, the vandal alert came out that there was a homicide.
• 17:51
  The police have said,"No, these people aren't breathing," but they don't know the details.
• 17:54
  They don't know what happened.
• 17:55
  Right.
• 17:56
  So they're just alerting the parents, saying something bad has happened, right?
• 18:00
  So as news travels, Kaylee's ex-boyfriend, Jack, turns up at the residence concerned about Kaylee.
• 18:06
  Um, police see this as a potential flag.
• 18:09
  Right.
• 18:09
  And they take Jack into questioning.
• 18:12
  Now, he shared a dog with Kaylee during their relationship, and the dog lived at the student house with Kaylee, but he would often stop by to see the dog, and it seems like they were really good friends, too.
• 18:23
  Yeah, they were so in it for long.
• 18:23
  Yeah.
• 18:24
  And that's the dog, Murphy, that you see in the documentary.
• 18:28
  Mm-hmm.
• 18:28
  The, the Goldendoodle.
• 18:29
  Um, a lot of people online were asking what happened to the dog after because you do see the police say that they're taking it to the pound.
• 18:36
  Murphy still lives with Jack.
• 18:38
  Aw, that's good.
• 18:38
  Yeah So police ask Jack,"What did you do the night before?" And he admits that Kaylee had tried to call him several times that night, but he hadn't spoken to her.
• 18:48
  I think he saw her briefly at The Corner club.
• 18:50
  Right, but she had called him, like, multiple times.
• 18:53
  After, yeah, after the club, like, later on.
• 18:55
  And that made it look a little suspicious.
• 18:58
  Right.
• 18:58
  Exactly.
• 18:59
  Well, I mean, you're always looking for a motive, aren't you?
• 19:02
  Right, right.
• 19:03
  And here's the ex turning up at the house asking what's going on.
• 19:06
  Again- After 12 phone calls or whatever looks fishy.
• 19:08
  Yeah.
• 19:10
  So while questioning Jack and the surviving roommates, they ask if they have any idea who may have done anything like this, or if any of the girls had noticed anyone following them.
• 19:19
  And although one does mention that Kaylee felt that somebody may have been following her, none of them have a clue who would or could do any of this.
• 19:28
  So she had felt uncomfortable when taking Murphy out, um, at night to pee.
• 19:32
  It's also said, and this has been confirmed by some people, but denied by the restaurant owners, that Brian Kohberger had actually been into her restaurant a couple of times.
• 19:44
  Right, I heard that.
• 19:44
  Now, other, other people that worked at the restaurant claim that is true, and that he flirted with her and that she was non-responsive.
• 19:52
  But the owner of the restaurant says absolutely did not happen.
• 19:54
  So I'm just gonna put out there that we don't know if that's factual or not.
• 19:57
  I wanna break that down in the after show.
• 19:59
  Okay, yeah.
• 20:00
  I have a gut feeling that it's probably true.
• 20:01
  I, I feel like it's true.
• 20:03
  Right.
• 20:04
  But I don't wanna...
• 20:05
  Yeah.
• 20:06
  Now, Jack is questioned further, but he's very open and honest, and is quickly taken off the suspect list.
• 20:12
  He has an alibi and everything.
• 20:14
  Uh, police look at the lives of all the victims, trying to find someone with a motive or vendetta against one of them.
• 20:22
  One thing they do know is that due to the nature of the crime, a brutal attack of four people with a knife, that this was a planned event.
• 20:30
  This is not a spur of the moment attack The police go through with all of them what they did the day before and start pulling footage from the grub truck and looking at the individuals seen around them, possibly following them.
• 20:44
  But after everyone's looked into, no one's suspicions is found Now Kaylee's sister, Olivia, she becomes her own personal detective.
• 20:54
  Right.
• 20:55
  Um, she has access to Kaylee's phone records.
• 20:58
  She reaches out to the driver who dropped them off, and anyone else who Kaylee called that night, to see if she can find any information that might help.
• 21:07
  Like, she got right on it before the police had those records.
• 21:10
  Yeah, she did.
• 21:11
  Yeah.
• 21:11
  Now, after the medical examiner has had a chance to look at the bodies, details of the attack can be released to the parents of the victims.
• 21:19
  Are you ready for this part?
• 21:20
  I hope so.
• 21:21
  Okay.
• 21:22
  If anyone in the audience is not, just mute just for five minutes.
• 21:27
  Kaylee and Maddie were in the same bed when they were attacked.
• 21:30
  Maddie was stabbed first, a total of 28 times, and then Kaylee was stabbed 38 times, and then he put the comforter back over them before leaving the room.
• 21:42
  That's so sad that they were in bed together.
• 21:43
  They were the best of friends- Mm-hmm for, like, their whole lives.
• 21:47
  So close.
• 21:47
  It is believed that they were the first to be attacked, and that possibly Xana caught him in the act, and she ran back to her room being chased by him.
• 21:55
  This is just horrifying.
• 21:57
  Causing the murderer to leave that knife sheath behind in Kaylee's room, next to Maddie's body, and Xana to be in her doorway when she was attacked.
• 22:06
  Oh, my God, this is something right out of a horror movie.
• 22:09
  Right.
• 22:09
  It says it looked like she literally fell back into the room.
• 22:13
  Mm.
• 22:13
  The murder weapon was a knife about seven inches long, and it appears that Xana was the only one who encountered the intruder while she was awake, and subsequently tried to fight him off, as her fingers were hacked almost completely off as she tried to defend herself.
• 22:30
  Mm.
• 22:30
  She sustained a total of 67 stab wounds.
• 22:34
  Wow.
• 22:35
  So yeah, she fought hard.
• 22:37
  She fought.
• 22:38
  Ethan was stabbed while laying in bed, maybe even with his back to the intruder, and he was stabbed a total of 17 times.
• 22:46
  Now, we come back to possible motive and everything, and how this, this person possibly hated women.
• 22:52
  Mm-hmm.
• 22:52
  The fact that the guy was stabbed so many less times, and the majority of the stabs to the girls were in the facial area- Mm-hmm definitely backs that up, I think.
• 23:03
  Yeah, 100%- Yeah supports that.
• 23:05
  To the police, the attacks looked personal, but the baffling thing is, they go through all the friends and acquaintances of the victims, and it is confusing when no likely suspects surface.
• 23:18
  I mean, a knife attack and multiple stab wounds usually indicates crime of passion.
• 23:22
  Right.
• 23:24
  So in the meantime, of course, rumors start to swirl amongst other students in the area about how multiple students could die on their campus.
• 23:32
  So one theory is a fentanyl overdose.
• 23:36
  Another is that a drug deal went wrong.
• 23:40
  Another is that there had been some kind of intense love triangle.
• 23:44
  Hmm.
• 23:45
  Again, it's, looks like a crime of passion in any other, you know, way.
• 23:49
  Right.
• 23:50
  But none of those were true.
• 23:53
  But the people on the internet just keep joining in, and the speculation gets crazier and crazier.
• 23:57
  These poor families have to read this, too.
• 24:00
  Mm.
• 24:00
  Some say Jack have done, must have done it.
• 24:03
  Some say Dylan and Bethany did it.
• 24:06
  Wow.
• 24:06
  Because that's how they survived, right?
• 24:08
  That's why they didn't call the police for so long.
• 24:10
  Right.
• 24:10
  Now, police are forced to give a statement about who they have cleared of any suspicion,'cause this is just getting out of hand.
• 24:16
  Right.
• 24:18
  However, this does also mean that they have to admit that they do not have a suspect, so a brutal killer with no seeming motive is at large.
• 24:26
  Is at large in a college town.
• 24:28
  Right.
• 24:29
  Like, horrifying.
• 24:30
  And then, finally, a couple of breakthroughs.
• 24:35
  Firstly, DNA had been found on the knife sheath.
• 24:39
  Not a match for anyone in the CODIS system, but police get to tap into the database of DNA submitted to companies like Ancestry.com.
• 24:48
  What's the other one called?
• 24:49
  23- 23andMe, yeah.
• 24:50
  23andMe, yeah.
• 24:51
  And they're able to create a DNA profile.
• 24:53
  Secondly, a neighboring house has a camera that picked up some footage from the night of the murders, and it picked up a white car coming and going from the area four times between 3:30 AM and 4:20 AM, the last time leaving at high speed.
• 25:09
  They're able to pick up this same vehicle on other cameras around town, which helps them narrow down the car type and identify it as a Hyundai Elantra.
• 25:19
  The DNA results come back belonging to a Bryan Kohberger, a student who attends Washington State University and drives a white Hyundai Elantra.
• 25:29
  Hmm.
• 25:29
  Bingo.
• 25:30
  Wow.
• 25:31
  His phone number was in the police database records due to traffic tickets, and from there, they can pull up cell phone data, which shows that he had often been in the Moscow area in the months leading up to the night of the murders, some of which were even in the King Road area and late at night.
• 25:50
  However, the night of the murders, his phone appears to have been shut off for a period of time, until 4:48 AM, when it comes back on and pings on the road headed from Moscow to where he lives.
• 26:03
  Hmm.
• 26:04
  After that night, records show he never went back to the Moscow area again.
• 26:08
  Right, and he had frequented it before.
• 26:10
  Mm-hmm.
• 26:12
  Now, they believe that they have their suspect, but they have to prove it.
• 26:16
  Because they cannot use a DNA match from a commercial database, they need to acquire an actual direct match to Bryan.
• 26:25
  Now, he had gone to stay at his parents' house, and they put him under surveillance.
• 26:32
  But as they don't have much to go on,'cause hardly ever leaves the house.
• 26:36
  When he does, he has gloves on.
• 26:38
  So they decide to do a trash pull, which means that they can collect trash from the house after it has been put out for the trash company to collect.
• 26:46
  It's then considered public, right?
• 26:49
  Um, now, Brian thought he was clever.
• 26:53
  There's none of his DNA on anything.
• 26:55
  He's been, like, covering his tracks, using gloves.
• 26:58
  They find nitrile gloves.
• 26:59
  But I guess what he didn't realize is that they can use his parents' DNA, and some DNA on a Q-tip that Brian's dad had used,'cause he's staying with his parents, comes back as a match to the father of the person whose DNA is on the knife sheath.
• 27:15
  And I put double bingo.
• 27:16
  Da, da, da.
• 27:19
  So now the police arrest 28-year-old Brian Christopher Kohberger, and the victims' families are thinking,"Who the hell is this person?" Right,'cause he had absolutely no connections to any of them.
• 27:33
  So let's look at who is Brian Kohberger.
• 27:37
  He was born in 1994 to Michael and Maryann in Pocono, Pennsylvania, and he has two older sisters.
• 27:44
  He was an overweight child, bullied at school as a result, but he joined a boxing gym, and he had shed 100 pounds by his senior year.
• 27:52
  From then on, he was very lean with an almost gaunt appearance, and he followed an incredibly strict vegan diet.
• 28:00
  His schoolmates describe him as awkward and withdrawn, but also aggressive and had anger issues.
• 28:07
  He had issues with heroin on and off, and was also diagnosed with autism, though considered highly functioning Brian earned an associate's degree in psychology in Northampton Community College before attending DeSales University, where he obtained a bachelor's in psychology and a master's in criminal justice.
• 28:27
  I mean, this guy is not dumb.
• 28:29
  He's not a dumbass, for sure, and yet he made some major mistakes here.
• 28:35
  He was a PhD student at Washington State University at the time of the murders, where he was studying criminology and working as a teacher's assistant.
• 28:44
  So he studied serial killers.
• 28:46
  Mm-hmm.
• 28:48
  However, during his time in this role as the teacher's assistant, many disturbing things were noticed by students and faculty.
• 28:57
  Brian seemed to have a hatred for women.
• 29:00
  He made it clear that, in his opinion, women had no place being in the university studying.
• 29:05
  Their place was in the home as a housewife and homemaker.
• 29:08
  And as such, he treated the female students with disgust, graded them badly, and complaints were made about him making the female students feel uncomfortable.
• 29:19
  He was on the verge of losing his teacher's assistant position due to his sexist attitude, that he had been given multiple warnings for and at no avail.
• 29:32
  He saw no value in women.
• 29:34
  He had never had a serious relationship.
• 29:36
  He was rejected by women his whole life, and losing his job as a teaching assistant due to his unacceptable treatment of female students.
• 29:46
  And then he stalked and targeted a house with five young, pretty female roommates.
• 29:52
  Yeah, those dots are not hard to connect.
• 29:56
  So back to the case and the arrest Brian Koburger is charged with four counts of first-degree murder, and the psycho is finally off the streets.
• 30:07
  Yeah.
• 30:08
  But Brian denies everything.
• 30:10
  So now the police have to prep for a trial, gather as much information as they can about this person, and figure out how does this all tie in.
• 30:19
  They seize Brian's car from his parents, and the FBI process it, though nothing of any use is found in the car.
• 30:27
  There's no further DNA of Brian's in the victim's house- Mm-hmm except from that sheath.
• 30:32
  His shoe and shoe size do not match the footprint in the snow, and they do not have a murder weapon.
• 30:38
  But they do have the cellphone records, and they track through his Amazon account that he recently purchased a KA-BAR knife and sheath.
• 30:47
  Olivia starts to dig into Brian's online presence, which is barely there, and Olivia's the sister of Kaylee, who was doing the digging.
• 30:58
  She finds references to his experience of visual snow, and this is visual snow syndrome, known as VSS.
• 31:09
  Is a neurological condition in which the primary symptom is a persistent flickering, white, black, transparent, and colored dots across the entire vision field.
• 31:20
  Now, he'd never been diagnosed with this.
• 31:22
  This was a self-diagnosis.
• 31:25
  They find out about his addiction to heroin, his stints in rehab, and his fascination and study of criminology, which he seemed to launch himself into once he kicked the drug habit.
• 31:36
  They seize his phone and computers and search his browser history and any other information they can find.
• 31:42
  Now, a year later While this is all still going to trial under investigation, the house at 1122 Kings Road is torn down before the trial even takes place, destroying any further possible evidence, much to the victims' families' surprise.
• 32:00
  Right.
• 32:01
  That was a huge issue.
• 32:03
  I mean, I understand that the house now has these negative connotations.
• 32:07
  You're not gonna be able to make a profit off of it.
• 32:09
  No one's gonna wanna live there, no.
• 32:11
  It's an eyesore in the neighborhood.
• 32:13
  Everybody sees it and thinks about these poor, four people who were murdered, but keep evidence that was in the- I mean, yeah, if I was a member of the family, I wouldn't want the house to remain because it would become, like, fascinating.
• 32:26
  Mm-hmm.
• 32:27
  Right.
• 32:27
  It would become fascinating.
• 32:28
  People would then be drawn to it and wanna come visit it, and I can see how you would wanna avoid that happening.
• 32:33
  Yeah.
• 32:34
  But it shouldn't have happened till after the trial.
• 32:35
  Exactly.
• 32:36
  Absolutely no way.
• 32:37
  Exactly.
• 32:38
  So the trial is moved to Boise, Idaho, and a trial date is set, with the prosecution pushing for the death penalty, and the families of the victims strongly feel that he should get the death penalty.
• 32:50
  But as everyone preps for trial, the defense reaches out for a plea deal.
• 32:56
  Brian has agreed to plead guilty if the death penalty is taken off the table.
• 33:02
  And although we very often hear that families are asked if they agree to it before a plea agreement is reached, these families were not, and they were furious.
• 33:11
  Mm-hmm.
• 33:13
  They avoided the ordeal of the trial, but did not agree to the plea that he was given.
• 33:19
  He was not even required to explain why he did it, why he chose those particular victims and that particular house,'cause they have no answers.
• 33:28
  Right.
• 33:30
  These parents sent their kids off to college for what most people see as the best years of their lives to work on building a future for themselves, and their kids never came back, and they will never know why.
• 33:41
  Yeah, and I mean, I just think about how much this irks me, just as someone in the public with a general interest.
• 33:49
  What was the motive?
• 33:50
  Why did he do this?
• 33:51
  I mean, these are questions that keep you awake at night, so I can only imagine how the parents must feel.
• 33:57
  Yeah.
• 33:58
  If, if I was gonna take the death penalty off the table, I would need answers.
• 34:03
  Yeah.
• 34:03
  For sure.
• 34:04
  So at the sentencing, they are allowed to give victim impact statements, along with Dylan Morgenson, who was probably the most emotional of all.
• 34:13
  She can't even look at Brian or talk to Brian.
• 34:16
  She talks to the judge.
• 34:18
  Kaylee's dad turns to face Brian, talks to him directly, and Kaylee's sister, Olivia, rips him a new one.
• 34:26
  Ripped him a new asshole.
• 34:27
  I loved it.
• 34:28
  Yeah.
• 34:29
  You can tell that these individuals needed this moment to get some closure.
• 34:32
  Mm-hmm.
• 34:33
  Throughout all the statements, Brian just stares blankly and unemotionally.
• 34:37
  Ethan's parents chose not to go to the sentencing.
• 34:42
  Now Brian was sentenced for four consecutive life terms without the possibility of parole, plus an additional 10 years for burglary, as he broke into the house.
• 34:51
  Each murder charge also carries a$50,000 fine, and he owes a$5,000 civil penalty to each of the victims' families.
• 35:04
  What is$5,000?
• 35:05
  A, what is any money going to do?
• 35:07
  Which like, okay, I get it.
• 35:09
  Add as much consequence to this as you can, but number one, what is money really gonna do?
• 35:15
  Number two, where is he gonna get this money?
• 35:20
  Like It's ridiculous.
• 35:24
  So his plea included waivers that limit his ability to appeal, though he retains the right to seek post-conviction relief, which he has recently filed, claiming ineffective assistance of counsel and alleging that his guilty plea was not entered voluntarily.
• 35:41
  And I just wanna say, and I said this to you earlier, I think, yeah, this timing is just such a big, fat coincidence.
• 35:49
  Yeah.
• 35:49
  That, oh, I was treated unfairly and I want a new trial right when this Netflix docu-'Cause there's so much attention that you know that there's gonna be some sympathy.
• 35:59
  Yeah.
• 35:59
  Somebody, somewhere, start writing to him in jail.
• 36:03
  Some of those fucking idiots, like the ones who were obsessed with Ted Bundy and still are, like, seek help.
• 36:11
  If this is you, seek help.
• 36:13
  Yeah.
• 36:14
  So legal experts have said that proving such claims is very difficult, and the original plea agreement remains in effect unless a court rules otherwise.
• 36:24
  Bryan is currently housed at the Idaho Maximum Security Institution in Kuna, Idaho, a long-term restrictive housing in solitary-style confinement, where he spends 23 hours a day in his cell.
• 36:39
  And boo-hoo, I guess he doesn't like it.
• 36:42
  Well, that's too bad.
• 36:44
  And that's where I end.
• 36:46
  If you had been a productive member of society and gotten your degree in, what was it, criminology?
• 36:54
  Mm-hmm.
• 36:55
  And helped catch predators, then you could have lived a nice life and had a nice house and a nice career and maybe found a wife.
• 37:03
  Now you don't deserve any of that.
• 37:06
  Right.
• 37:06
  You can rot.
• 37:08
  Anything else you wanna say before the after show?
• 37:10
  I think the coincidence of him asking for this appeal or post-trial relief or whatever is nonsense.
• 37:17
  A, I think he wants attention.
• 37:19
  B, I think that he doesn't like solitary confinement, and he wants to be somewhere more comfortable and pleasant.
• 37:25
  And what a disgusting thing of him to do to drag these families back through this, these families that still don't have any answers- Right about why he did this.
• 37:36
  Mm-hmm.
• 37:37
  So is he ready to answer for that?
• 37:40
  Maybe he's ready to answer.
• 37:40
  I don't know if he has an answer.
• 37:43
  He doesn't have a logical answer because- It's not logical he's psychotic Right, right, right.
• 37:47
  Yeah.
• 37:48
  But I mean, we'll see what happens.
• 37:50
  We'll definitely keep you guys updated on this one.
• 37:52
  We'll be following it for sure.
• 37:53
  Yeah.
• 37:54
  All right, guys.
• 37:55
  Well, that was a heavy one.
• 37:57
  Um, we do have a few points we wanna go over in the after show, so if you're a subscriber, we will see you there.
• 38:03
  And if not, we will see you next week for- The 7M TikTok dance cult, right?
• 38:09
  Ooh, yeah.
• 38:10
  Yeah.
• 38:11
  Which I don't know a lot about, so I'm excited for that one.
• 38:13
  You gonna learn today.
• 38:15
  I am gonna learn today.
• 38:17
  All right, guys.
• 38:18
  Until next time.
• 38:19
  BB, loves.
• 38:20
  Not deadly.
• 38:21
  Bye.
• 38:22
  Bye.