Latest / Something Extra / Empowering Women in STEM w/ Erica Wilson

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Empowering Women in STEM w/ Erica Wilson · Something Extra

• 0:01
  Erica Wilson: So I have a personal kinda mantra, and it's it's even on my
• 0:05
  Erica Wilson: LinkedIn.
• 0:06
  Erica Wilson: And it is see your potential, identify your purpose,
• 0:10
  Erica Wilson: and advance your passion.
• 0:12
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 0:12
  Erica Wilson: And that was kinda born out of my passion for
• 0:16
  Erica Wilson: helping others get into tech and and cyber,
• 0:20
  Erica Wilson: particularly women and young girls.
• 0:23
  Erica Wilson: But it has to start with you.
• 0:25
  Erica Wilson: Like, you have to see your potential, and you have to know
• 0:29
  Erica Wilson: that there is something unique about you that you do offer
• 0:33
  Erica Wilson: because there's only one of you, right, is the way I like to think
• 0:37
  Erica Wilson: of it.
• 0:37
  Erica Wilson: So what skills and transferable skills and abilities
• 0:41
  Erica Wilson: do you have that can be useful?
• 0:45
  Erica Wilson: And once you identify that, then you can align it to your purpose.
• 0:51
  Lisa Nichols: It takes something a little more to lead with impact.
• 0:55
  Lisa Nichols: I'm Lisa Nichols, author of Something Extra, and this podcast
• 0:59
  Lisa Nichols: was inspired by our daughter, Allie, whose additional chromosome has shaped
• 1:03
  Lisa Nichols: how I see people in leadership.
• 1:06
  Lisa Nichols: Each episode features conversations with inspiring leaders from around the world
• 1:11
  Lisa Nichols: about what truly defines how they lead and serve others.
• 1:15
  Lisa Nichols: If you enjoyed today's conversation, please consider leaving a five star
• 1:19
  Lisa Nichols: review.
• 1:20
  Lisa Nichols: It helps more people discover the show.
• 1:23
  Lisa Nichols: And if you'd like to go deeper, my book, Something Extra, is available on
• 1:26
  Lisa Nichols: Amazon and through other major book retailers.
• 1:31
  Lisa Nichols: Today, we are joined by Erica Wilson, vice president of global security,
• 1:35
  Lisa Nichols: risk, and compliance at Reinsurance Group of America.
• 1:39
  Lisa Nichols: From starting her tech career at Anheuser Busch to leading enterprise cybersecurity
• 1:43
  Lisa Nichols: defense and advocating for women in STEM, she brings a wealth of
• 1:47
  Lisa Nichols: hands on leadership experience to today's conversation.
• 1:51
  Lisa Nichols: Well, Erica Wilson, welcome to the Something Extra podcast.
• 1:54
  Erica Wilson: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:56
  Erica Wilson: It's so good to see you.
• 1:58
  Erica Wilson: I'm always delighted to see you, Lisa.
• 2:00
  Lisa Nichols: I feel the same way.
• 2:02
  Lisa Nichols: And you and I, we're both in the tech community, so I think that's
• 2:06
  Lisa Nichols: how we originally met.
• 2:09
  Lisa Nichols: And you were probably one of the first cohorts,
• 2:13
  Lisa Nichols: if not the first cohort in our technology leadership experience.
• 2:17
  Erica Wilson: I believe that is true.
• 2:19
  Erica Wilson: Probably, I wanna say back in twenty eighteen or nineteen.
• 2:23
  Erica Wilson: It's been nineteen, the beginning of the pandemic.
• 2:25
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 2:26
  Lisa Nichols: A long
• 2:26
  Erica Wilson: time.
• 2:27
  Erica Wilson: Yes.
• 2:27
  Erica Wilson: And then even since then, I had served as a mentor
• 2:31
  Erica Wilson: Mentor.
• 2:32
  Erica Wilson: A lot of the the young ladies going through, the TechLX and then CyberLX
• 2:37
  Erica Wilson: program.
• 2:38
  Erica Wilson: So absolutely.
• 2:39
  Lisa Nichols: Well, thank you for that.
• 2:41
  Lisa Nichols: Thank you for giving back, and I know you're huge about giving back and
• 2:45
  Lisa Nichols: women and getting more girls in STEM.
• 2:47
  Lisa Nichols: So we've just got a lot to talk about.
• 2:49
  Lisa Nichols: Erica, it's gonna be hard to capture you in just one episode here.
• 2:54
  Erica Wilson: Well, I appreciate the time for sure.
• 2:57
  Lisa Nichols: We're gonna try.
• 2:58
  Lisa Nichols: We're gonna try.
• 2:59
  Lisa Nichols: So let's just talk about this a little bit.
• 3:01
  Lisa Nichols: I know you started your career in IT at Anheuser Busch.
• 3:05
  Erica Wilson: I did a long time ago.
• 3:08
  Erica Wilson: Very long time ago.
• 3:10
  Erica Wilson: Yeah.
• 3:10
  Erica Wilson: So I started there as a a develop...
• 3:13
  Erica Wilson: Well, actually, I started as an intern.
• 3:15
  Erica Wilson: Let me just go back and say that.
• 3:17
  Erica Wilson: I started as an intern and landed a role
• 3:21
  Erica Wilson: there.
• 3:21
  Erica Wilson: I had just graduated from Southeast Missouri State majoring
• 3:25
  Erica Wilson: in computer science, and I was an aspiring developer.
• 3:30
  Erica Wilson: I did web development, COBOL development.
• 3:33
  Erica Wilson: Thought it was just one of the best career choices ever, and then I
• 3:37
  Erica Wilson: had an opportunity to participate in a leadership kinda training
• 3:41
  Erica Wilson: program.
• 3:42
  Erica Wilson: I've had a theme of being participants in those.
• 3:46
  Erica Wilson: And in that program, I was able to
• 3:50
  Erica Wilson: have rotational kind of immersions in different parts
• 3:54
  Erica Wilson: of the organization.
• 3:56
  Erica Wilson: And at the time, data protection was one of them, and I
• 4:00
  Erica Wilson: remember just feeling so
• 4:03
  Erica Wilson: excited about data protection and information security,
• 4:07
  Erica Wilson: and it really was just starting to pick up as a thing.
• 4:10
  Erica Wilson: It wasn't even called cybersecurity yet.
• 4:13
  Erica Wilson: It was, like, right at...
• 4:14
  Erica Wilson: Right after the dot com boom.
• 4:16
  Erica Wilson: And so I thought, like, there's probably some job security
• 4:21
  Erica Wilson: in this, you know, still being young, and that really was, part of my
• 4:25
  Erica Wilson: reasoning for going into it.
• 4:26
  Erica Wilson: I'm like, this is new and exciting.
• 4:28
  Erica Wilson: I think it's gonna be a problem to solve, and I like
• 4:32
  Erica Wilson: solving problems.
• 4:33
  Erica Wilson: And so that's kinda how I really shifted into cyber pretty early in my
• 4:37
  Erica Wilson: career.
• 4:38
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 4:39
  Lisa Nichols: Well, you were correct.
• 4:40
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 4:41
  Erica Wilson: I was right.
• 4:41
  Erica Wilson: Very important.
• 4:43
  Erica Wilson: I am.
• 4:43
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 4:44
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 4:44
  Lisa Nichols: You made a good bet on that.
• 4:46
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 4:47
  Lisa Nichols: And I love it because you kinda call yourself an accidental
• 4:51
  Lisa Nichols: cybersecurity.
• 4:52
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 4:53
  Lisa Nichols: So I think that that's really...
• 4:55
  Lisa Nichols: I mean...
• 4:56
  Lisa Nichols: And I think I read something or I maybe made this up.
• 4:58
  Lisa Nichols: I'm not sure, Erica, but you said it was really more job security.
• 5:02
  Erica Wilson: It was.
• 5:03
  Lisa Nichols: And you're like, I think that this is not gonna go away.
• 5:06
  Lisa Nichols: I think this is gonna be important.
• 5:08
  Lisa Nichols: But you have just gone on to do amazing, amazing,
• 5:12
  Lisa Nichols: things in your career, and I wanna talk all about that.
• 5:15
  Lisa Nichols: But I love this.
• 5:17
  Lisa Nichols: I absolutely love this.
• 5:19
  Lisa Nichols: But I read somewhere where you said every two or three years, you go
• 5:22
  Lisa Nichols: to your boss,
• 5:24
  Lisa Nichols: and you would say, what is next?
• 5:27
  Erica Wilson: Yes.
• 5:28
  Lisa Nichols: What is next?
• 5:28
  Lisa Nichols: So you had this
• 5:31
  Lisa Nichols: insatiable
• 5:33
  Lisa Nichols: desire and appetite to continue to grow and learn.
• 5:36
  Lisa Nichols: What do you think, maybe in your background or...
• 5:40
  Lisa Nichols: I I mean, what do you think, Erica, that prompted you to keep asking
• 5:44
  Lisa Nichols: that question?
• 5:45
  Lisa Nichols: Because I think it's a great question.
• 5:47
  Erica Wilson: Yeah.
• 5:47
  Erica Wilson: So for me, I've always thought about a sense
• 5:51
  Erica Wilson: of purpose.
• 5:52
  Erica Wilson: Right?
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  Erica Wilson: What what is it that that I bring, and what can I
• 5:57
  Erica Wilson: do to help solve problems?
• 5:59
  Erica Wilson: At the end of the day, like, I originally wanted to be a math
• 6:02
  Erica Wilson: teacher before I was even exposed to computer science.
• 6:06
  Erica Wilson: And so, you know, I I had a tendency to to feel
• 6:10
  Erica Wilson: like I'd I'd solve a problem or two, right, and spend
• 6:14
  Erica Wilson: some time fixing or building or developing something, and then I'd wanna
• 6:18
  Erica Wilson: move on to the next thing.
• 6:20
  Erica Wilson: And so it just organically kinda happened where
• 6:24
  Erica Wilson: I was, you know, excited about what was next and opportunities would
• 6:28
  Erica Wilson: present themselves to me.
• 6:30
  Erica Wilson: And, yes, very early in my career, I was able to kinda grow,
• 6:35
  Erica Wilson: under some great, leaders and friends in the industry.
• 6:38
  Erica Wilson: We were all pretty young.
• 6:40
  Erica Wilson: Gary Harbison is actually one I'll give a shout out to.
• 6:43
  Erica Wilson: We we started together very young and early,
• 6:48
  Erica Wilson: and I learned so much from him and and others, that kinda came
• 6:52
  Erica Wilson: through Anheuser Busch working in the cyber team.
• 6:57
  Lisa Nichols: Lots of great people came out of Anheuser Busch, Erica.
• 7:00
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 7:00
  Lisa Nichols: I can't even tell you how many leaders I know today
• 7:04
  Lisa Nichols: that started their careers at Anheuser Busch or it seems like McDonnell
• 7:09
  Lisa Nichols: Douglas.
• 7:09
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 7:09
  Lisa Nichols: I know a lot of people in both of those.
• 7:12
  Lisa Nichols: But...
• 7:12
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 7:12
  Lisa Nichols: Now Gary has now moved on.
• 7:14
  Lisa Nichols: He's the global CISO for j and j
• 7:16
  Erica Wilson: He is.
• 7:17
  Lisa Nichols: Which is awesome.
• 7:17
  Lisa Nichols: But, yeah.
• 7:19
  Lisa Nichols: And I I know some of your your bosses, your prior...
• 7:23
  Lisa Nichols: Jim Cavalier, a great boss.
• 7:25
  Lisa Nichols: I'm sure he taught you a lot.
• 7:27
  Lisa Nichols: But, you know, was there a particular moment, Erica?
• 7:30
  Lisa Nichols: Maybe this even goes back to high school.
• 7:32
  Lisa Nichols: I don't know.
• 7:32
  Lisa Nichols: But was there a particular moment when you realized I can be a leader?
• 7:38
  Erica Wilson: I would say
• 7:41
  Erica Wilson: it probably does go back to high school.
• 7:44
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 7:44
  Erica Wilson: So I was a student athlete, scholar athlete,
• 7:49
  Erica Wilson: and oftentimes, even on the teams that I played
• 7:53
  Erica Wilson: on, I was tapped on to be the co captain or the team captain.
• 7:57
  Erica Wilson: And so even looking back at that, it was like, oh,
• 8:01
  Erica Wilson: there were some leadership things that someone else saw in me then.
• 8:05
  Erica Wilson: So I knew I had the potential to lead, and then even moving on
• 8:09
  Erica Wilson: into college and being a part of organizations, having leadership roles
• 8:14
  Erica Wilson: in that.
• 8:14
  Erica Wilson: But maybe from a career perspective, I would say I
• 8:18
  Erica Wilson: always wanted others to succeed.
• 8:21
  Erica Wilson: So I have this passion for wanting others to grow and
• 8:25
  Erica Wilson: learn.
• 8:26
  Erica Wilson: I think part of that came from, like I said, I originally
• 8:31
  Erica Wilson: wanted to be a math teacher.
• 8:32
  Erica Wilson: So my my connection is wanting to teach and wanting to help
• 8:36
  Erica Wilson: others learn.
• 8:37
  Erica Wilson: And so from that, it really kinda shifted me into, like,
• 8:41
  Erica Wilson: leadership and having teams, that I can pour into and
• 8:45
  Erica Wilson: grow along the way.
• 8:47
  Erica Wilson: So I always knew it was there, but I would say, there's just a
• 8:50
  Erica Wilson: natural,
• 8:52
  Erica Wilson: gravity towards wanting to see people in their best and and be
• 8:56
  Erica Wilson: their best.
• 8:58
  Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
• 8:58
  Lisa Nichols: Well, that makes for the best leaders.
• 9:00
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 9:01
  Lisa Nichols: When they genuinely care to see the people that they are serving
• 9:05
  Lisa Nichols: succeed.
• 9:06
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 9:07
  Lisa Nichols: So it's not, it's not about them.
• 9:10
  Lisa Nichols: It's it's about the other people.
• 9:12
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 9:12
  Lisa Nichols: So,
• 9:15
  Lisa Nichols: you know, so what do you think,
• 9:19
  Lisa Nichols: you know, if you if you could go back to your younger self, what
• 9:22
  Lisa Nichols: what do you think you know now, Erica, that your younger self,
• 9:26
  Lisa Nichols: you said that you and Gary were both young, and there were a bunch
• 9:29
  Lisa Nichols: of you that started out.
• 9:31
  Lisa Nichols: You know, is there something that you know now that you wish you'd known
• 9:34
  Lisa Nichols: then?
• 9:36
  Erica Wilson: Wow.
• 9:37
  Erica Wilson: I
• 9:39
  Erica Wilson: I would say, that, like, I don't think I could have ever
• 9:43
  Erica Wilson: imagined
• 9:45
  Erica Wilson: technology
• 9:47
  Erica Wilson: to take us to the place it has now.
• 9:50
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 9:50
  Erica Wilson: Mhmm.
• 9:51
  Erica Wilson: Like, we have had some some major milestones.
• 9:54
  Erica Wilson: I talked about the dot com boom.
• 9:56
  Erica Wilson: I talked,
• 9:58
  Erica Wilson: sometimes I talk about the transition from, like, on premise data centers
• 10:02
  Erica Wilson: to cloud as being another kind of big big thing.
• 10:06
  Erica Wilson: And now with AI...
• 10:08
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 10:08
  Erica Wilson: Like, some of these things, I never could have imagined with the pace
• 10:12
  Erica Wilson: and the need to keep up when I put my cybersecurity head on,
• 10:17
  Erica Wilson: things that we would have experienced.
• 10:20
  Erica Wilson: But it's all been so rewarding to be a part of it.
• 10:24
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 10:24
  Erica Wilson: I always say, like, technology can be used for good and evil.
• 10:28
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 10:28
  Erica Wilson: There's always positive ways to use it, and then you have the
• 10:32
  Erica Wilson: the threat actors who are figuring out ways to target,
• 10:36
  Erica Wilson: and and use it.
• 10:38
  Erica Wilson: And so I don't think I could have imagined this world.
• 10:41
  Erica Wilson: Like, when I got into cyber, it was Mhmm.
• 10:44
  Erica Wilson: Again, to protect the organization first, to think about how to keep
• 10:48
  Erica Wilson: data safe, but all the different ways that technology has evolved
• 10:53
  Erica Wilson: and really made, this this, a rewarding career.
• 10:57
  Erica Wilson: I...
• 10:57
  Erica Wilson: It just blows my mind.
• 10:59
  Lisa Nichols: It it makes you...
• 11:01
  Lisa Nichols: As you're talking, Erica, I'm thinking, what is it gonna be like in the
• 11:04
  Lisa Nichols: next twenty years?
• 11:05
  Erica Wilson: Oh my gosh.
• 11:05
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 11:06
  Lisa Nichols: Because I think the pace...
• 11:09
  Lisa Nichols: The accelerated pace is just going to continue to get more and more
• 11:13
  Lisa Nichols: accelerated.
• 11:14
  Lisa Nichols: So Absolutely.
• 11:15
  Lisa Nichols: It's just hard to even imagine.
• 11:17
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 11:17
  Lisa Nichols: But it's...
• 11:18
  Lisa Nichols: To your point, it's really an exciting place to be
• 11:20
  Erica Wilson: It is.
• 11:21
  Lisa Nichols: For sure.
• 11:23
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 11:24
  Lisa Nichols: Well, okay.
• 11:25
  Lisa Nichols: So, like, if you're looking back over your career, was there one
• 11:29
  Lisa Nichols: move, one career move, Erica, that you felt like took
• 11:34
  Lisa Nichols: a lot of courage?
• 11:37
  Erica Wilson: So my shift...
• 11:38
  Erica Wilson: So when I left Anheuser Busch,
• 11:41
  Erica Wilson: I left and went to Scottrade.
• 11:45
  Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
• 11:45
  Erica Wilson: And Scottrade was, you know, new industry financial services,
• 11:50
  Erica Wilson: way more demanding.
• 11:52
  Erica Wilson: And that was definitely kinda betting on myself because
• 11:56
  Erica Wilson: I was comfortable at AB.
• 11:58
  Erica Wilson: I had spent, like, nine years there.
• 12:01
  Erica Wilson: It was amazing place to work, you know, with all the the great
• 12:05
  Erica Wilson: benefits and the the free beer every month that I could give away.
• 12:09
  Erica Wilson: Right.
• 12:10
  Erica Wilson: And I I went to Scottrade and and kinda grew
• 12:14
  Erica Wilson: up in leadership and management there.
• 12:16
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 12:16
  Erica Wilson: My first,
• 12:18
  Erica Wilson: large team that I led.
• 12:20
  Erica Wilson: So I like to say I grew up in management there, and I really
• 12:24
  Erica Wilson: had the opportunity to understand
• 12:27
  Erica Wilson: what does it mean to work for a company that has requirements
• 12:32
  Erica Wilson: of being up and available twenty four seven.
• 12:36
  Lisa Nichols: Four seven?
• 12:36
  Erica Wilson: It was, yeah, it was kinda going in not really knowing that, like,
• 12:40
  Erica Wilson: coming from manufacturing and making beer.
• 12:43
  Erica Wilson: It was just very different and more demanding.
• 12:46
  Erica Wilson: So I I definitely would say that was a a big step in my
• 12:50
  Erica Wilson: career in terms of working in a place where what might have
• 12:54
  Erica Wilson: been good or okay was not acceptable, due to the regulatory
• 12:59
  Erica Wilson: requirements and the the things that we had to do for
• 13:03
  Erica Wilson: clients, working at Scottrade.
• 13:05
  Erica Wilson: But I...
• 13:06
  Erica Wilson: Looking back on it, I would not change anything.
• 13:09
  Erica Wilson: It was it was amazing shift.
• 13:11
  Erica Wilson: And then when I left Scottrade, I actually moved on to Cass
• 13:15
  Erica Wilson: as their first CISO.
• 13:17
  Erica Wilson: Did some amazing things there to help establish and further
• 13:21
  Erica Wilson: the program.
• 13:23
  Erica Wilson: That was also a big move.
• 13:25
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 13:25
  Erica Wilson: Like, going from being a senior leader, to kind of
• 13:29
  Erica Wilson: a CISO Building.
• 13:31
  Erica Wilson: Supporting...
• 13:31
  Erica Wilson: Yeah.
• 13:31
  Erica Wilson: Building.
• 13:32
  Erica Wilson: Building.
• 13:33
  Erica Wilson: Yeah.
• 13:33
  Erica Wilson: Kinda supporting, the CIO directly.
• 13:36
  Erica Wilson: It was a it was a tall order, but very rewarding as well.
• 13:39
  Erica Wilson: So I've had a couple of moves that I felt like were just just
• 13:43
  Erica Wilson: in time, right on time, for me, and I I don't regret any of
• 13:47
  Erica Wilson: it.
• 13:48
  Lisa Nichols: Let me ask you.
• 13:50
  Lisa Nichols: You know, if there is a listener out there and they're listening to this
• 13:54
  Lisa Nichols: and they've got fear right now...
• 13:56
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, I...
• 13:56
  Lisa Nichols: And I'm assuming,
• 13:59
  Lisa Nichols: you know, you often hear courage is not the absence of fear.
• 14:02
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 14:03
  Lisa Nichols: It's not the absence of fear.
• 14:05
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, it truly is the resilience to move past the fear
• 14:09
  Lisa Nichols: or move through the fear.
• 14:12
  Lisa Nichols: If there is a listener out there, Erica, and they're a little...
• 14:15
  Lisa Nichols: And and they're feeling like, hey.
• 14:17
  Lisa Nichols: I just don't have...
• 14:18
  Lisa Nichols: I don't think I have what it takes to make that next move.
• 14:23
  Lisa Nichols: You know, I don't know enough.
• 14:25
  Lisa Nichols: I'm not confident in it.
• 14:26
  Lisa Nichols: What would you say to them?
• 14:28
  Erica Wilson: So I have a personal kinda mantra, and it's it's even on my
• 14:32
  Erica Wilson: LinkedIn.
• 14:33
  Erica Wilson: And it is see your potential, identify your purpose, and
• 14:37
  Erica Wilson: advance your passion.
• 14:39
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 14:39
  Erica Wilson: And that was kinda born out of my passion for
• 14:44
  Erica Wilson: helping others get into tech and and cyber,
• 14:48
  Erica Wilson: particularly women and young girls.
• 14:51
  Erica Wilson: But it has to start with you.
• 14:52
  Erica Wilson: Like, you have to see your potential, and you have to know
• 14:57
  Erica Wilson: that there is something unique about you that you do offer
• 15:01
  Erica Wilson: because there's only one of you, right, is the way I like to think
• 15:04
  Erica Wilson: of it.
• 15:05
  Erica Wilson: So what skills and transferable skills and abilities
• 15:09
  Erica Wilson: do you have that can be useful?
• 15:12
  Erica Wilson: And once you identify that, then you can align it to your purpose.
• 15:16
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 15:17
  Erica Wilson: So whatever that purpose is, what brings you joy, what do you get excited
• 15:21
  Erica Wilson: about?
• 15:21
  Erica Wilson: For me, I know it's problem solving.
• 15:23
  Erica Wilson: And and so Mhmm.
• 15:25
  Erica Wilson: When you identify that, then you can start working to advance
• 15:29
  Erica Wilson: that passion.
• 15:30
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 15:30
  Erica Wilson: So what I would say is, first, know what what you love, know what
• 15:34
  Erica Wilson: you're good at, and and have that kinda sense of purpose to
• 15:38
  Erica Wilson: know what it is that could help you move on.
• 15:42
  Erica Wilson: And the the second thing I'd say is don't limit your
• 15:46
  Erica Wilson: own potential by saying what you don't have.
• 15:49
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 15:50
  Erica Wilson: There are so many ways to to self learn or to be connected
• 15:54
  Erica Wilson: with the right people that can get you to the resources that you need
• 15:59
  Erica Wilson: that can set you up for success.
• 16:01
  Erica Wilson: So, generally, you're not in this alone.
• 16:03
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 16:04
  Erica Wilson: Your your career journey is yours, but there are definitely gonna be people
• 16:08
  Erica Wilson: along the way who can support you, who can assist you, who want to
• 16:12
  Erica Wilson: help, that you just have to tap into that.
• 16:15
  Lisa Nichols: That is great advice.
• 16:16
  Lisa Nichols: I love that.
• 16:17
  Lisa Nichols: I love that.
• 16:19
  Lisa Nichols: Well, now you're at RGA.
• 16:21
  Lisa Nichols: I think RGA is number six, maybe, in the top reinsurers.
• 16:26
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, it's huge.
• 16:28
  Erica Wilson: Multi built in.
• 16:29
  Erica Wilson: Two hundred.
• 16:30
  Erica Wilson: We're in the Fortune
• 16:31
  Lisa Nichols: two hundred.
• 16:32
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 16:33
  Lisa Nichols: Huge company.
• 16:34
  Lisa Nichols: You're leading globally in cybersecurity risk and compliance.
• 16:39
  Lisa Nichols: You know, how do you lead when the stakes are so incredibly high, but
• 16:43
  Lisa Nichols: you don't have all the answers?
• 16:44
  Lisa Nichols: And you may you may be leaning on the answer that you
• 16:48
  Lisa Nichols: just gave before, you know, by surrounding yourself with other people.
• 16:52
  Lisa Nichols: But
• 16:53
  Erica Wilson: Yeah.
• 16:53
  Erica Wilson: So the the sense of purpose, it starts with that.
• 16:56
  Erica Wilson: So the leaders I've worked for that have taught me the most
• 17:01
  Erica Wilson: is when they have a vision and they set...
• 17:03
  Erica Wilson: Help set the strategy, and it's something that you also believe in.
• 17:07
  Erica Wilson: So it gives you a sense of purpose.
• 17:09
  Erica Wilson: And the second piece is self composure.
• 17:12
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 17:12
  Erica Wilson: We work in in a world that can get pretty...
• 17:16
  Erica Wilson: It gets pretty chaotic, right, in cyber with all the the issues that happen.
• 17:21
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 17:21
  Erica Wilson: There's geopolitical conflicts and all kinds of things that
• 17:25
  Erica Wilson: daily,
• 17:27
  Erica Wilson: keep many CISOs up at night.
• 17:30
  Erica Wilson: However, you have to remain with some sense of kind
• 17:34
  Erica Wilson: of composure,
• 17:36
  Erica Wilson: because if you don't, then, you know, the team senses all the chaos, and
• 17:39
  Erica Wilson: then it's harder for them to focus and and get things done.
• 17:43
  Erica Wilson: And so I think those two things together are are very important.
• 17:47
  Erica Wilson: You...
• 17:47
  Erica Wilson: You're able to guide them with with strength and compassion
• 17:52
  Erica Wilson: and extending the trust that really is important when you have both of
• 17:56
  Erica Wilson: those.
• 17:57
  Erica Wilson: And then people will want to follow you.
• 18:00
  Erica Wilson: You know, my my leader now is really big on on reading books
• 18:04
  Erica Wilson: and and talking about leadership conversations.
• 18:07
  Erica Wilson: And one of the books, that we we read last year
• 18:12
  Erica Wilson: was Good to Great.
• 18:13
  Erica Wilson: And I know a lot of people, are very familiar with Jim
• 18:17
  Erica Wilson: Collins and his book.
• 18:18
  Erica Wilson: And so, you know, we've gone through a a lot of transformation, but at
• 18:22
  Erica Wilson: the end of it, you have to be a leader that's willing
• 18:26
  Erica Wilson: to make difficult decisions, to face truths,
• 18:30
  Erica Wilson: and,
• 18:32
  Erica Wilson: continue to improve and knowing that, you're on a journey,
• 18:36
  Erica Wilson: right, to to get to a good place, but good...
• 18:40
  Erica Wilson: Stopping at good isn't enough.
• 18:42
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 18:42
  Erica Wilson: And so Yeah.
• 18:43
  Erica Wilson: All of those things are are are what I think is important as you
• 18:47
  Erica Wilson: kinda lead lead a team, especially in in tech and cyber.
• 18:50
  Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
• 18:51
  Lisa Nichols: Well, let me ask you this.
• 18:52
  Lisa Nichols: Has your definition of good leadership changed over the course of
• 18:56
  Lisa Nichols: your career?
• 18:57
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, like, when you were younger, what did you...
• 18:59
  Lisa Nichols: What...
• 19:00
  Lisa Nichols: How would you describe leadership, and then how would you describe it today?
• 19:04
  Erica Wilson: Yeah.
• 19:04
  Erica Wilson: I I would say it has it has matured.
• 19:08
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 19:08
  Erica Wilson: When I was an an early kinda leader, you know, with a small team,
• 19:13
  Erica Wilson: a lot of it...
• 19:15
  Erica Wilson: It...
• 19:15
  Erica Wilson: Always people oriented and people centered,
• 19:18
  Erica Wilson: but probably more in the, like, helping and helping
• 19:22
  Erica Wilson: to navigate where now I've grown into a leader
• 19:27
  Erica Wilson: that...
• 19:28
  Erica Wilson: It's something that I heard, even a couple of weeks ago.
• 19:31
  Erica Wilson: It's like, okay.
• 19:32
  Erica Wilson: What would you do if I wasn't here or I wasn't on vacation?
• 19:36
  Erica Wilson: So instilling in them how to actually go about
• 19:40
  Erica Wilson: solving problems instead of being the problem solver that I love
• 19:44
  Erica Wilson: to be, taking a step back and ensuring that they're able
• 19:48
  Erica Wilson: to, you know, take on those same types of abilities
• 19:52
  Erica Wilson: to to navigate problems on their own.
• 19:55
  Erica Wilson: And then just remembering at the end of the day that we're all human.
• 19:59
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 19:59
  Erica Wilson: We are...
• 20:00
  Erica Wilson: We're going to have challenges.
• 20:01
  Erica Wilson: We're going to fail sometimes.
• 20:03
  Erica Wilson: Times.
• 20:04
  Erica Wilson: We just have to learn from them and get better.
• 20:06
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 20:07
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 20:07
  Erica Wilson: And and that...
• 20:08
  Erica Wilson: When you show people that even...
• 20:10
  Erica Wilson: You know, I make mistakes.
• 20:12
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 20:12
  Erica Wilson: No one's above that.
• 20:14
  Erica Wilson: That really helps with that connection where leaders truly will
• 20:18
  Erica Wilson: wanna understand, and they see the human side, right, that it's it's
• 20:22
  Erica Wilson: okay.
• 20:22
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 20:23
  Erica Wilson: It's okay to make a mistake, but you have to learn from it and
• 20:26
  Erica Wilson: make improvements.
• 20:27
  Lisa Nichols: That's so good.
• 20:28
  Lisa Nichols: That is so good.
• 20:29
  Lisa Nichols: Well, when I think about what you first said, you know, instead of being
• 20:32
  Lisa Nichols: the problem solver, teaching your team how to solve the problems Yes.
• 20:37
  Lisa Nichols: You know, Erica, it just reminds me, that's where sustainability comes in.
• 20:40
  Lisa Nichols: Because if you're not there and you're the only problem solver,
• 20:44
  Lisa Nichols: that's not good.
• 20:45
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 20:46
  Lisa Nichols: And I'm thinking about that old adage, you know, teach a man to fish.
• 20:50
  Erica Wilson: Yes.
• 20:51
  Erica Wilson: Yeah.
• 20:51
  Lisa Nichols: Or give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, but teach
• 20:54
  Lisa Nichols: him how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
• 20:56
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 20:56
  Erica Wilson: Exactly.
• 20:57
  Erica Wilson: Yeah.
• 20:57
  Lisa Nichols: I think that is really a beautiful way way to lead.
• 21:02
  Lisa Nichols: Well, I'm gonna ask you one more question, and then we do need to
• 21:05
  Lisa Nichols: take a quick break.
• 21:06
  Lisa Nichols: But I know you've worked across with technology, risk, compliance, security, business
• 21:10
  Lisa Nichols: operations.
• 21:12
  Lisa Nichols: How has this...
• 21:12
  Lisa Nichols: And I think you call it...
• 21:14
  Lisa Nichols: I think I read where you call it peripheral assignments.
• 21:17
  Lisa Nichols: Like, you would sign up for the peripheral assignments.
• 21:19
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 21:20
  Lisa Nichols: Sometimes a lateral move, right, is the best move.
• 21:23
  Lisa Nichols: It's not always up.
• 21:25
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 21:25
  Lisa Nichols: It...
• 21:26
  Lisa Nichols: It's up and over.
• 21:27
  Erica Wilson: Yes.
• 21:29
  Lisa Nichols: You know, but how's that cross functional experience really
• 21:33
  Lisa Nichols: helped shape you in how you lead?
• 21:36
  Lisa Nichols: I think it's I think it's wonderful.
• 21:38
  Erica Wilson: Yeah.
• 21:38
  Erica Wilson: So, you know, the thing about careers is there's no right
• 21:42
  Erica Wilson: path.
• 21:43
  Erica Wilson: It's the path that works for you.
• 21:45
  Erica Wilson: And at the core of it, it's it's about relationships
• 21:50
  Erica Wilson: and getting people to, you know, trust you, to want
• 21:54
  Erica Wilson: to work with you, to kinda be that leader of choice that
• 21:58
  Erica Wilson: people actually are excited that you you get to
• 22:02
  Erica Wilson: work work with them.
• 22:03
  Erica Wilson: And so when I've taken roles that were more of a lateral,
• 22:07
  Erica Wilson: it it all comes back to, like, who do I get to work with?
• 22:11
  Erica Wilson: What is the exciting opportunity?
• 22:14
  Erica Wilson: And how are these connections that I'm going to build gonna help
• 22:18
  Erica Wilson: the company that I'm working for to drive further maturity,
• 22:22
  Erica Wilson: and improvements along the way?
• 22:24
  Erica Wilson: And so connections are huge.
• 22:27
  Erica Wilson: And and I'm really big on, you know, knowing, you
• 22:31
  Erica Wilson: know, who who can do what and who's good at what and how to
• 22:34
  Erica Wilson: tie things together so that people are successful.
• 22:38
  Erica Wilson: But then even across the organization, right, wanting people to
• 22:42
  Erica Wilson: understand that I'm willing, to be the person that you call because I'm happy
• 22:46
  Erica Wilson: to connect you with the right person or to get you the answer that
• 22:49
  Erica Wilson: you need.
• 22:50
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 22:50
  Lisa Nichols: That's really good.
• 22:51
  Lisa Nichols: That's good.
• 22:52
  Lisa Nichols: Well, we do need to take a quick break, and we'll be right back
• 22:55
  Lisa Nichols: with Erica Wilson on the Something Extra podcast.
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• 23:27
  Lisa Nichols: But welcome back, everyone, to the Something Extra podcast with Erica Wilson.
• 23:32
  Lisa Nichols: So, Erica, you know, what do you think separates a
• 23:36
  Lisa Nichols: good cybersecurity...
• 23:38
  Lisa Nichols: Talking about good to great, a good cybersecurity leader from
• 23:42
  Lisa Nichols: a really great one?
• 23:43
  Erica Wilson: That is a great question.
• 23:45
  Erica Wilson: And here's what I'll say.
• 23:47
  Erica Wilson: We always have to be steps ahead
• 23:52
  Erica Wilson: of the adversary.
• 23:54
  Erica Wilson: And so when you when you have a leader in cyber,
• 23:58
  Erica Wilson: they have to be a little paranoid.
• 24:00
  Erica Wilson: They have to be, willing to continue to improve
• 24:06
  Erica Wilson: because we can't be stagnant.
• 24:07
  Erica Wilson: So the great leaders always want to mature and improve.
• 24:12
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 24:12
  Erica Wilson: The good leaders tend to say, okay.
• 24:15
  Erica Wilson: This is good for now.
• 24:17
  Erica Wilson: You really don't have that option working in this field.
• 24:21
  Erica Wilson: And so, you know, something is is likely
• 24:25
  Erica Wilson: to happen at at some point that will show you that you may have
• 24:29
  Erica Wilson: thought things were great, and then maybe they they weren't as great as you
• 24:33
  Erica Wilson: thought.
• 24:33
  Erica Wilson: And so I think that a great leader in cyber is one that wants
• 24:36
  Erica Wilson: to continue to improve and also has the right
• 24:41
  Erica Wilson: leaders and the right people in position based on what they bring to
• 24:45
  Erica Wilson: the team.
• 24:45
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 24:45
  Erica Wilson: Because there's so many things that you can do in cyber, and it's actually
• 24:49
  Erica Wilson: one of the pitches of of why I try to get people to work
• 24:52
  Erica Wilson: in this field because you don't have to be extremely technical.
• 24:56
  Erica Wilson: You have to understand technology.
• 24:58
  Erica Wilson: But in the the area that I lead in the risk and compliance space,
• 25:02
  Erica Wilson: you know, we have former auditors.
• 25:04
  Erica Wilson: We have some attorneys, former attorneys on the team.
• 25:09
  Erica Wilson: We've we've had people I know that have been educators that kinda shift,
• 25:14
  Erica Wilson: and they can help in the awareness and training place.
• 25:16
  Erica Wilson: And so there's a lot of transferable skills, that
• 25:20
  Erica Wilson: you can bring along with you.
• 25:22
  Erica Wilson: Now for some of the roles, you do absolutely need to
• 25:26
  Erica Wilson: have, kind of the the technical skills and the capabilities.
• 25:30
  Erica Wilson: But at the end of the day, it's about getting the right people
• 25:34
  Erica Wilson: in the right place.
• 25:35
  Erica Wilson: The right seat on the bus is what I'd equate it to, to help
• 25:39
  Erica Wilson: you be successful, and then knowing that you need them.
• 25:43
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 25:43
  Erica Wilson: No leader can lead without people that aren't following,
• 25:48
  Erica Wilson: right, and have have a vision and a strategy that they they want to
• 25:51
  Erica Wilson: follow and they believe will help the company be successful.
• 25:55
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 25:55
  Lisa Nichols: Oh, that's so good.
• 25:57
  Lisa Nichols: That's so good.
• 25:58
  Lisa Nichols: Well, is there a leadership trait, Erica, that you think is
• 26:03
  Lisa Nichols: dramatically underrated?
• 26:05
  Lisa Nichols: And this can be any leadership trait.
• 26:09
  Erica Wilson: So this is...
• 26:10
  Erica Wilson: I'm gonna go back to the self composure,
• 26:13
  Erica Wilson: because there are times when you lead that you're
• 26:17
  Erica Wilson: going to have difficult moments, right, whether it's losses
• 26:21
  Erica Wilson: or personnel challenges, and you have to be able
• 26:25
  Erica Wilson: to maintain
• 26:27
  Erica Wilson: some composure.
• 26:28
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 26:29
  Erica Wilson: Now I say that saying, like, that doesn't mean every every day
• 26:33
  Erica Wilson: is gonna be rainbows.
• 26:35
  Erica Wilson: But at the end of the day, I know that when I show up,
• 26:39
  Erica Wilson: right, that's something that I really strive to bring, and that's authentically who I
• 26:43
  Erica Wilson: am.
• 26:43
  Erica Wilson: But, like, how do we remain calm?
• 26:45
  Erica Wilson: How do we stay respectful?
• 26:47
  Erica Wilson: How do we communicate in a way that's gonna get us to the right
• 26:50
  Erica Wilson: outcome?
• 26:51
  Erica Wilson: Those are the things that I think are...
• 26:53
  Erica Wilson: Sometimes can get lost, especially in moments when it's intense,
• 26:59
  Erica Wilson: or you're not getting, what you need as quickly as you need.
• 27:02
  Erica Wilson: It's easy to get frustrated.
• 27:05
  Erica Wilson: Yeah.
• 27:05
  Erica Wilson: And sometimes they talk about energy.
• 27:07
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 27:07
  Erica Wilson: Energy transitioning.
• 27:09
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 27:09
  Erica Wilson: That energy passes on, and then now everybody's, you know,
• 27:13
  Erica Wilson: up in arms in the room.
• 27:14
  Erica Wilson: And so I really intentionally try, to kinda bring that
• 27:18
  Erica Wilson: that level of of self composure,
• 27:22
  Erica Wilson: when when needed.
• 27:23
  Lisa Nichols: That's so good.
• 27:25
  Lisa Nichols: I, you know, I one hundred percent...
• 27:27
  Lisa Nichols: One hundred and ten percent concur with that.
• 27:29
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, I often say people can feel you before they hear you.
• 27:33
  Erica Wilson: Yes.
• 27:34
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 27:34
  Lisa Nichols: The energy that you bring into the room, people feel it.
• 27:38
  Lisa Nichols: So if you're...
• 27:39
  Lisa Nichols: To your point, if you're all frustrated, if you're all...
• 27:43
  Lisa Nichols: Then that's really gonna...
• 27:44
  Lisa Nichols: It's gonna trickle out.
• 27:46
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 27:46
  Lisa Nichols: There's a ripple effect to that.
• 27:48
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 27:48
  Lisa Nichols: So...
• 27:49
  Erica Wilson: Yeah.
• 27:49
  Erica Wilson: The other thing I'd say about that, though, you know, like, just to be
• 27:53
  Erica Wilson: honest, right, there's gonna be times where you might be frustrated.
• 27:56
  Erica Wilson: Yeah.
• 27:57
  Erica Wilson: And when you have those moments, if you do end up
• 28:01
  Erica Wilson: not showing up in the the best way, Reflect periodically.
• 28:06
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 28:07
  Erica Wilson: Reflect on how did the conversation go, what could I have done differently,
• 28:11
  Erica Wilson: have a conversation about the conversation, like, and get feedback.
• 28:15
  Erica Wilson: We we have a saying.
• 28:16
  Erica Wilson: So I work...
• 28:17
  Erica Wilson: Lou DeSorbo is the CISO at RGA, and, he has a couple
• 28:22
  Erica Wilson: of things that we...
• 28:23
  Erica Wilson: We've learned and things that he says a lot a lot, but feedback is
• 28:26
  Erica Wilson: a gift.
• 28:27
  Erica Wilson: But be willing to get feedback.
• 28:29
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 28:29
  Erica Wilson: Did that message land well?
• 28:31
  Erica Wilson: Could I could I have said that differently?
• 28:33
  Erica Wilson: Could you improve my thinking?
• 28:35
  Erica Wilson: Like, those are all things that I think can help a leader even in
• 28:39
  Erica Wilson: the times you don't get it right to go back and do that self
• 28:42
  Erica Wilson: reflection Mhmm.
• 28:43
  Erica Wilson: And and make sure that, like, if I can just change one thing so
• 28:47
  Erica Wilson: that next time this happens, that's the one thing that I change.
• 28:51
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 28:51
  Erica Wilson: You have that time to do that.
• 28:53
  Lisa Nichols: That's so good.
• 28:54
  Lisa Nichols: So good.
• 28:58
  Lisa Nichols: What do you think...
• 29:00
  Lisa Nichols: Because cybersecurity is so important, and you and I
• 29:04
  Lisa Nichols: have sat in lots of conferences, Erica, and I've heard for years.
• 29:08
  Lisa Nichols: You know, if you're not...
• 29:09
  Lisa Nichols: If if you're...
• 29:10
  Lisa Nichols: You are not threatened, you know, if you are not hacked, you're gonna be.
• 29:14
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 29:15
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, it's just,
• 29:17
  Lisa Nichols: you know, it's just...
• 29:18
  Lisa Nichols: It's
• 29:18
  Erica Wilson: not if it's when.
• 29:20
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 29:20
  Lisa Nichols: It's it...
• 29:20
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 29:21
  Lisa Nichols: It's not if it's when.
• 29:22
  Lisa Nichols: But, you know, what do you think every CEO should be
• 29:26
  Lisa Nichols: asking their cybersecurity expert in their company?
• 29:32
  Erica Wilson: So I I think, in general,
• 29:36
  Erica Wilson: you know, most most CEOs want to
• 29:40
  Erica Wilson: have confidence that the investments that they're making are
• 29:45
  Erica Wilson: reducing the risk exposure.
• 29:47
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 29:47
  Erica Wilson: And so the question that they'll ask is, are we safe?
• 29:51
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 29:51
  Erica Wilson: Are we...
• 29:51
  Erica Wilson: You know, or or how are things going?
• 29:53
  Erica Wilson: Or are we good?
• 29:54
  Erica Wilson: And the answer has to always be around risk
• 29:58
  Erica Wilson: management and what's acceptable.
• 30:01
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 30:02
  Erica Wilson: So when I think about how to even respond to that, it's here's
• 30:06
  Erica Wilson: how we're doing.
• 30:07
  Erica Wilson: Here's where we can improve.
• 30:09
  Erica Wilson: And, again, here's the things that we're working on to get there.
• 30:13
  Erica Wilson: Like, those are all the things that I think CEOs should want to understand
• 30:17
  Erica Wilson: on a pretty frequent basis because the landscape shifts
• 30:22
  Erica Wilson: so quickly.
• 30:22
  Lisa Nichols: So quickly.
• 30:23
  Lisa Nichols: And Yeah.
• 30:24
  Erica Wilson: Yeah, what what I...
• 30:25
  Erica Wilson: What someone may have told you three weeks ago actually could shift because of
• 30:30
  Erica Wilson: how quickly, the threat landscape changes.
• 30:33
  Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
• 30:33
  Lisa Nichols: Oh, that's good.
• 30:35
  Lisa Nichols: Okay.
• 30:36
  Lisa Nichols: Let's talk a little bit about AI.
• 30:38
  Lisa Nichols: You already mentioned it.
• 30:40
  Lisa Nichols: You know, it's changing virtually every aspect of technology.
• 30:44
  Lisa Nichols: What excites you most about AI in cyber, and what concerns you?
• 30:49
  Erica Wilson: So I'm gonna answer that in reverse order.
• 30:51
  Erica Wilson: Let's start with gloom and doom.
• 30:53
  Lisa Nichols: The gloom and doom.
• 30:55
  Erica Wilson: Yes.
• 30:55
  Erica Wilson: So what concerns me is
• 30:59
  Erica Wilson: the...
• 31:02
  Erica Wilson: Because AI is...
• 31:04
  Erica Wilson: And and using it is is available, the
• 31:08
  Erica Wilson: threat actors, again, are able to use it to...
• 31:13
  Erica Wilson: At velocity and scale and to speed up the tactics that they've always
• 31:17
  Erica Wilson: had and and they've tried.
• 31:19
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 31:20
  Erica Wilson: And so, you know, AI is just enabling them to move
• 31:24
  Erica Wilson: faster.
• 31:24
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 31:25
  Erica Wilson: And so that...
• 31:26
  Erica Wilson: It...
• 31:26
  Erica Wilson: It's it's pretty scary.
• 31:27
  Erica Wilson: Like, if you you kinda follow some of the the things that
• 31:31
  Erica Wilson: that are happening, and how quickly companies are having to
• 31:36
  Erica Wilson: respond, right, in terms of keeping systems updated and patching.
• 31:40
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 31:41
  Erica Wilson: Human speed isn't fast enough.
• 31:43
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 31:43
  Erica Wilson: You've gotta Mhmm.
• 31:44
  Erica Wilson: You've gotta be much faster.
• 31:46
  Erica Wilson: So that's kinda the the scary side of it.
• 31:48
  Erica Wilson: The positive side is
• 31:51
  Erica Wilson: it has really opened up a new way of of working and
• 31:55
  Erica Wilson: kind of collaborating.
• 31:57
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 31:57
  Erica Wilson: There's definitely
• 31:59
  Erica Wilson: ways to help make us more efficient.
• 32:02
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 32:02
  Erica Wilson: Like, there's there's ways you can use Copilot or ChattGPT
• 32:07
  Erica Wilson: and, you know, all of these different things just to help you get to...
• 32:11
  Erica Wilson: I'll say things that you wanna consider, versus decisions, but
• 32:15
  Erica Wilson: things you might wanna consider or to help you work Mhmm.
• 32:18
  Erica Wilson: Faster.
• 32:18
  Erica Wilson: So that's actually all very exciting.
• 32:22
  Erica Wilson: And, I think over time, like, people are gonna start learning
• 32:27
  Erica Wilson: how to use it in a way that just makes their day easier,
• 32:31
  Erica Wilson: their workday easier, and even in their personal lives.
• 32:34
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 32:34
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 32:35
  Lisa Nichols: I agree.
• 32:37
  Lisa Nichols: Well, let let me ask you this because we do all the exercising, you
• 32:41
  Lisa Nichols: know, the fishing exercises and all that.
• 32:43
  Lisa Nichols: Do you think it's more ultimately a technology issue or
• 32:47
  Lisa Nichols: a people issue?
• 32:49
  Erica Wilson: Oh, absolutely.
• 32:50
  Erica Wilson: People.
• 32:51
  Erica Wilson: People.
• 32:51
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 32:52
  Erica Wilson: Yes.
• 32:53
  Erica Wilson: People.
• 32:53
  Erica Wilson: Like, people
• 32:54
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 32:55
  Erica Wilson: Are...
• 32:55
  Erica Wilson: They...
• 32:56
  Erica Wilson: So everyone's a part of the cyber team is the way that I think
• 32:59
  Erica Wilson: about it because
• 33:01
  Erica Wilson: they can be the weakest link, the wrong click, or the wrong picking up
• 33:05
  Erica Wilson: the phone, or now deep fakes and, you know, thinking that
• 33:09
  Erica Wilson: someone on the other side of the video is really that person.
• 33:13
  Erica Wilson: It it is it always comes down to people, which is why you have
• 33:17
  Erica Wilson: to train and educate and Yes.
• 33:20
  Erica Wilson: Continue to push the messaging and talk about the examples.
• 33:23
  Erica Wilson: Like, when they happen, when bad things happen, use it as a learning opportunity.
• 33:28
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 33:28
  Erica Wilson: When when other companies are in the news or something happens, right, take a
• 33:32
  Erica Wilson: step back and and understand, like, what what happened there
• 33:36
  Erica Wilson: and and, you know, how can you make sure you better prepare, or
• 33:40
  Erica Wilson: have the the proper things in place, so that it doesn't happen to you
• 33:44
  Erica Wilson: or your your organization.
• 33:46
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 33:46
  Lisa Nichols: That's good.
• 33:48
  Lisa Nichols: That's good.
• 33:48
  Lisa Nichols: So if you're a listener out there, you know, make sure that you're doing
• 33:52
  Lisa Nichols: the training.
• 33:53
  Lisa Nichols: Make sure you're making sure your people are aware of what can happen.
• 33:57
  Lisa Nichols: And,
• 33:58
  Lisa Nichols: really, it's very, very critical.
• 34:00
  Lisa Nichols: So I know let's let's shift a little bit, and you've already
• 34:05
  Lisa Nichols: alluded to it.
• 34:06
  Lisa Nichols: But I know, like, you know, you've talked about helping women,
• 34:10
  Lisa Nichols: especially girls, getting into STEM.
• 34:13
  Lisa Nichols: Why...
• 34:14
  Lisa Nichols: You know, where does this come from, Erica?
• 34:16
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, probably being a woman in STEM, but, you know, why is that
• 34:20
  Lisa Nichols: so important to you?
• 34:21
  Lisa Nichols: And, I mean, we got a lot...
• 34:23
  Lisa Nichols: We...
• 34:23
  Lisa Nichols: We've made progress.
• 34:25
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 34:26
  Lisa Nichols: But we still have a lot of work to do in the area.
• 34:29
  Erica Wilson: So this is...
• 34:30
  Erica Wilson: I'm glad you asked this question because it it really ties back
• 34:34
  Erica Wilson: to everything that that we've talked about so far.
• 34:38
  Erica Wilson: So I remember...
• 34:40
  Erica Wilson: I'll even go back to courses, as I studied computer science in
• 34:44
  Erica Wilson: college,
• 34:46
  Erica Wilson: being one of very few women, right, in the room.
• 34:50
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 34:51
  Erica Wilson: And I mean few, like, two or three of us, and there's a, you
• 34:54
  Erica Wilson: know, whole whole room.
• 34:56
  Erica Wilson: Now that that set me up for what to expect in the real world
• 34:59
  Erica Wilson: working in technology, And it was the same.
• 35:02
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 35:03
  Erica Wilson: You know, look across the room, even as I grew in leadership,
• 35:08
  Erica Wilson: even more.
• 35:08
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 35:09
  Erica Wilson: It's like, okay.
• 35:10
  Erica Wilson: Like, there's there's not many women here.
• 35:13
  Erica Wilson: And what does my problem solving self think to do?
• 35:15
  Erica Wilson: Like, how can I help?
• 35:17
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 35:17
  Erica Wilson: What can I do?
• 35:18
  Erica Wilson: So I I really I really had an moment,
• 35:22
  Erica Wilson: when I thought about it.
• 35:23
  Erica Wilson: Like, okay.
• 35:24
  Erica Wilson: I'm not seeing as many girls excited about taking
• 35:28
  Erica Wilson: on careers in tech or cyber.
• 35:32
  Erica Wilson: Not seeing a lot of of women that are interested in growing their careers.
• 35:36
  Erica Wilson: Like, they may have had an entry level type role.
• 35:39
  Erica Wilson: So what can I do?
• 35:41
  Erica Wilson: What part can I play in helping kinda change the trajectory
• 35:45
  Erica Wilson: one one person at a time?
• 35:47
  Erica Wilson: And so that's kind of how I really started with this.
• 35:50
  Erica Wilson: It was like, okay.
• 35:50
  Erica Wilson: How do I help?
• 35:51
  Erica Wilson: Instead of, you know, thinking like, oh, man.
• 35:53
  Erica Wilson: This this is horrible.
• 35:54
  Erica Wilson: It's never gonna change.
• 35:55
  Erica Wilson: Like, what can I do about it?
• 35:57
  Erica Wilson: Yeah.
• 35:58
  Erica Wilson: And the passion really just grew organically from that.
• 36:00
  Erica Wilson: And as I started, you know, I I did a stint of
• 36:04
  Erica Wilson: adjunct teaching at a few universities locally here in St.
• 36:08
  Erica Wilson: Louis, and I remember just, you know, making sure I personally
• 36:12
  Erica Wilson: connected with a lot of the young ladies in the class.
• 36:16
  Erica Wilson: And I have mentored several young young men as well, but really just making
• 36:21
  Erica Wilson: sure I make that personal connection, make...
• 36:23
  Erica Wilson: Offer myself as a resource, to support them in their
• 36:27
  Erica Wilson: career journeys.
• 36:28
  Erica Wilson: And then even as a leader, right, as as I see women
• 36:32
  Erica Wilson: working across technology, one of the things I did at CAST was
• 36:36
  Erica Wilson: help establish a women in technology kind of forum, and
• 36:41
  Erica Wilson: we come together.
• 36:42
  Erica Wilson: You know, we kinda talk about, career trajectory,
• 36:46
  Erica Wilson: like, ways to think about approaching, growing your career.
• 36:50
  Erica Wilson: And so it's just, again, ties back to me wanting to help solve
• 36:54
  Erica Wilson: the problem to help get more, girls in stem and then women
• 36:59
  Erica Wilson: growing their careers, in in technology.
• 37:03
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 37:04
  Lisa Nichols: I love that you're a roll up your sleeves kinda person.
• 37:07
  Lisa Nichols: Absolutely.
• 37:08
  Lisa Nichols: I always say, don't stay on the sidelines and complain about something that you're
• 37:12
  Lisa Nichols: not willing to roll up your sleeves and get involved in.
• 37:15
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 37:15
  Erica Wilson: That is true.
• 37:16
  Lisa Nichols: So that is awesome.
• 37:19
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 37:19
  Lisa Nichols: And I really do think...
• 37:20
  Lisa Nichols: Because I know that you had said that you wanted to be a teacher,
• 37:23
  Lisa Nichols: you know, thought that you wanted to be a math teacher, but there is
• 37:26
  Lisa Nichols: such a connection there.
• 37:28
  Lisa Nichols: Because you're not a math teacher, but you're teaching
• 37:32
  Lisa Nichols: and sharing wisdom with these young girls, you know, about STEM and
• 37:36
  Lisa Nichols: their careers.
• 37:38
  Lisa Nichols: And to your to your point before too, like, with cybersecurity,
• 37:42
  Lisa Nichols: there is a lot more to it and a lot more things that you
• 37:45
  Lisa Nichols: can do, I think, than even young girls,
• 37:49
  Lisa Nichols: really understand in technology.
• 37:51
  Lisa Nichols: It's not just sitting behind a computer and coding.
• 37:54
  Lisa Nichols: There's so many things, right, that you can get involved in.
• 37:58
  Lisa Nichols: Well, you know, I know...
• 38:00
  Lisa Nichols: And you've already talked about mentoring mentoring young women.
• 38:04
  Lisa Nichols: You you talk about mentorship,
• 38:07
  Lisa Nichols: disconnect.
• 38:08
  Lisa Nichols: And you said that there are women out there that would love to mentor
• 38:13
  Lisa Nichols: a young person, but how do you find that?
• 38:15
  Lisa Nichols: And then on the Converse side of that, if you're seeking a mentor,
• 38:19
  Lisa Nichols: how do you find a mentor?
• 38:21
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 38:22
  Lisa Nichols: That's why I love our TechLX so much.
• 38:24
  Erica Wilson: Yes.
• 38:25
  Erica Wilson: Yes.
• 38:25
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah, Erica.
• 38:26
  Lisa Nichols: Because that's one of the four pillars is every participant has
• 38:30
  Lisa Nichols: a mentor, and we painstakingly match,
• 38:34
  Lisa Nichols: you know, the participant too.
• 38:35
  Lisa Nichols: But now you...
• 38:37
  Lisa Nichols: I don't know.
• 38:37
  Lisa Nichols: Do you remember who your mentor was when you went through TechLX?
• 38:40
  Erica Wilson: Oh, man.
• 38:41
  Erica Wilson: I'm trying to remember because I've had several.
• 38:44
  Lisa Nichols: You've had several?
• 38:46
  Erica Wilson: I don't remember, but I know someone that I am...
• 38:49
  Erica Wilson: I've I've closely connected to so many women, in St.
• 38:53
  Erica Wilson: Louis in technology, so it's hard to remember which one came through that
• 38:58
  Erica Wilson: program.
• 38:58
  Erica Wilson: Came through that program.
• 38:59
  Erica Wilson: Yeah.
• 39:00
  Erica Wilson: Yeah.
• 39:00
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 39:02
  Lisa Nichols: But, you know, what I love about you...
• 39:04
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, you were assigned a mentor, and you had nine months of a
• 39:07
  Lisa Nichols: mentor, but then you've gone on to mentor others.
• 39:11
  Lisa Nichols: And, I think that that is a really key piece too.
• 39:14
  Erica Wilson: Yeah.
• 39:14
  Erica Wilson: And when people reach out...
• 39:16
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 39:16
  Erica Wilson: So I...
• 39:17
  Erica Wilson: I've had people reach out and say, looking for a mentor
• 39:21
  Erica Wilson: or looking for some support.
• 39:22
  Erica Wilson: And even if if they don't ask the question outright, I always start with,
• 39:27
  Erica Wilson: you know, what what is it that you're trying to achieve, and Mhmm.
• 39:30
  Erica Wilson: What do you wanna do?
• 39:31
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 39:32
  Erica Wilson: They may say, oh, someone mentioned your name to me, and we'll have that
• 39:35
  Erica Wilson: conversation.
• 39:36
  Erica Wilson: And it's a two way relationship.
• 39:39
  Erica Wilson: And so I I always say, like, you know, we can meet as often
• 39:43
  Erica Wilson: as you'd like.
• 39:44
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 39:45
  Erica Wilson: If...
• 39:45
  Erica Wilson: And we could meet, to talk about.
• 39:48
  Erica Wilson: So I always try to leave them with a challenge of of something to
• 39:51
  Erica Wilson: go and seek out or find or really kinda think about
• 39:55
  Erica Wilson: before we meet the next time, right, to just kinda keep them
• 40:00
  Erica Wilson: progressing along.
• 40:00
  Erica Wilson: But I I do enjoy doing it, and I love hearing about
• 40:05
  Erica Wilson: the success that comes along with it.
• 40:07
  Erica Wilson: But, yeah, it is definitely a two way relationship.
• 40:10
  Erica Wilson: So I would just say that for anyone who's thinking about how do you
• 40:13
  Erica Wilson: find the right mentor, like, first know, like, you have to also put
• 40:17
  Erica Wilson: in the work.
• 40:19
  Erica Wilson: Yes.
• 40:19
  Erica Wilson: And then, again, I'm gonna go back to connections because there might be someone
• 40:23
  Erica Wilson: that you already know or someone that you knows that would know the perfect
• 40:27
  Erica Wilson: person for you.
• 40:29
  Erica Wilson: So you gotta leverage leverage the network that you have.
• 40:32
  Erica Wilson: Mhmm.
• 40:33
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 40:34
  Lisa Nichols: That...
• 40:34
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, I can't reiterate that enough.
• 40:36
  Lisa Nichols: You know, for our listeners, relationships are so important.
• 40:40
  Lisa Nichols: And I always say, have the relationships, build the relationships.
• 40:45
  Lisa Nichols: You're gonna...
• 40:46
  Lisa Nichols: I mean...
• 40:46
  Lisa Nichols: And you know this, Erica, like, in business, you know, if you
• 40:51
  Lisa Nichols: build relationships across the organization, when it's time to really
• 40:55
  Lisa Nichols: do something, you can go so much faster.
• 40:57
  Erica Wilson: Yes.
• 40:57
  Lisa Nichols: When you already had the relationship.
• 40:59
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 41:00
  Erica Wilson: Absolutely.
• 41:02
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 41:02
  Lisa Nichols: That's so good.
• 41:05
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 41:05
  Lisa Nichols: I love your mantra.
• 41:07
  Lisa Nichols: I'm gonna say it again.
• 41:07
  Lisa Nichols: See your potential, identify your purpose, advance your passion.
• 41:13
  Lisa Nichols: What do you,
• 41:15
  Lisa Nichols: where do you think that came from?
• 41:17
  Lisa Nichols: Was there an origin to that?
• 41:18
  Lisa Nichols: Did you have a mentor, or was that something you just having
• 41:22
  Lisa Nichols: a a meeting with me, myself, and I?
• 41:25
  Erica Wilson: Yeah.
• 41:26
  Erica Wilson: So it actually came.
• 41:27
  Erica Wilson: So I was work...
• 41:28
  Erica Wilson: I was actually working with my cousin on a website
• 41:33
  Erica Wilson: because I wanted to...
• 41:35
  Erica Wilson: And this was, like, right in the thick of COVID, I think.
• 41:38
  Erica Wilson: I was trying to, again, how do I stay connected to people,
• 41:42
  Erica Wilson: since we're not meeting in person?
• 41:45
  Erica Wilson: And we were kinda going through, you know, my history
• 41:49
  Erica Wilson: and and some of the things that I still had...
• 41:53
  Erica Wilson: Aspire to do, right, with with a lot of the speaking and the,
• 41:57
  Erica Wilson: you know, the awards and all of that and kinda talking through it, and,
• 42:01
  Erica Wilson: we we came up with that.
• 42:03
  Erica Wilson: And so it's kinda stuck, but it truly is, how
• 42:07
  Erica Wilson: how I operate and and how I challenge others, to work and think through.
• 42:12
  Lisa Nichols: That's good.
• 42:13
  Lisa Nichols: Well, you're a wife?
• 42:15
  Erica Wilson: Yes.
• 42:15
  Erica Wilson: You're a mom?
• 42:16
  Erica Wilson: Yes.
• 42:16
  Lisa Nichols: You're an executive, a board member, a mentor.
• 42:21
  Lisa Nichols: How do you define success at this time in your life, Erica?
• 42:25
  Lisa Nichols: And has your definition of success changed over the years?
• 42:29
  Erica Wilson: So early on, success probably was more
• 42:34
  Erica Wilson: around, you know, that continuation of growing
• 42:39
  Erica Wilson: in in my career, and I'm way past that now.
• 42:43
  Erica Wilson: Not because I feel like I have arrived or I've done all the things.
• 42:46
  Erica Wilson: I still love to learn.
• 42:48
  Erica Wilson: I still love to solve problems.
• 42:51
  Erica Wilson: Success now to me is is my work
• 42:55
  Erica Wilson: rewarding?
• 42:56
  Erica Wilson: Do I I feel valued?
• 43:00
  Erica Wilson: Am I being seen as being a...
• 43:04
  Erica Wilson: An active and willing participant
• 43:07
  Erica Wilson: in the work and all the things that I'm connected to?
• 43:10
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 43:11
  Erica Wilson: And and that is not...
• 43:12
  Erica Wilson: Like, from the board, volunteer board roles, to the organization
• 43:16
  Erica Wilson: and the team that I work with, to my family, my friends.
• 43:20
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 43:21
  Erica Wilson: All of those things are important.
• 43:22
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 43:23
  Erica Wilson: Do do I feel valued?
• 43:24
  Erica Wilson: Am I am I...
• 43:25
  Erica Wilson: Do I have this sense of purpose?
• 43:27
  Erica Wilson: Am I fulfilled?
• 43:28
  Erica Wilson: And if if all that's aligned, then then I'm successful in my
• 43:32
  Erica Wilson: in my view.
• 43:33
  Erica Wilson: Like, it's...
• 43:33
  Erica Wilson: All things aren't gonna always be great as we expect.
• 43:38
  Erica Wilson: But when you kind of, you know, think and reflect on those things,
• 43:43
  Erica Wilson: that that truly is success.
• 43:45
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 43:46
  Lisa Nichols: That's great.
• 43:47
  Lisa Nichols: I love it.
• 43:48
  Lisa Nichols: Well, let me ask you this, Erica.
• 43:50
  Lisa Nichols: This is called something extra.
• 43:53
  Lisa Nichols: What do you believe is this something extra every leader needs?
• 43:58
  Erica Wilson: I'm gonna stick with a sense of purpose.
• 44:02
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 44:03
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 44:03
  Erica Wilson: You have to know your why, and then you have
• 44:07
  Erica Wilson: to have the ability to get others to believe in your
• 44:11
  Erica Wilson: why and that vision,
• 44:13
  Erica Wilson: to continue to move forward.
• 44:15
  Erica Wilson: Like, a a a leader really isn't a leader if no one's following them.
• 44:19
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 44:19
  Erica Wilson: Have you thought about that?
• 44:20
  Erica Wilson: Like Yes.
• 44:21
  Erica Wilson: You're a leader and no one is following them.
• 44:23
  Erica Wilson: Back and nobody's following them.
• 44:25
  Lisa Nichols: Really a leader.
• 44:26
  Erica Wilson: Yeah.
• 44:26
  Erica Wilson: So having that that sense of purpose, is is really
• 44:30
  Erica Wilson: key and making sure that purpose is aligned, to the
• 44:34
  Erica Wilson: organization that you're working for.
• 44:37
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 44:38
  Erica Wilson: Like, because that's important too.
• 44:40
  Erica Wilson: Right?
• 44:40
  Erica Wilson: And Mhmm.
• 44:41
  Erica Wilson: And and that you are truly...
• 44:43
  Erica Wilson: If you're in an organization, that their priorities are are first
• 44:47
  Erica Wilson: and top of mind when you work and...
• 44:49
  Erica Wilson: But it's aligned with, ultimately, things that are important to you.
• 44:54
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 44:55
  Lisa Nichols: So good.
• 44:56
  Lisa Nichols: Well, Erica, this has been so much fun.
• 44:58
  Erica Wilson: I know.
• 44:59
  Erica Wilson: It has been great.
• 45:00
  Erica Wilson: And I just wanna say congratulations.
• 45:02
  Erica Wilson: I saw you hit your four hundredth episode.
• 45:05
  Erica Wilson: That is so amazing.
• 45:07
  Erica Wilson: So kudos to you and your team for that.
• 45:10
  Lisa Nichols: Thank you.
• 45:11
  Lisa Nichols: A lot of work, and the team, kudos to them.
• 45:14
  Lisa Nichols: They they put in so much work.
• 45:15
  Lisa Nichols: But I did have a friend last week.
• 45:17
  Lisa Nichols: I was in a meeting, and he goes, he has...
• 45:20
  Lisa Nichols: There were several of us in this meeting.
• 45:22
  Lisa Nichols: He goes, what's one percent?
• 45:24
  Lisa Nichols: Anybody know what one percent is?
• 45:26
  Lisa Nichols: I'm, like, sitting there going, where where is he going with this?
• 45:30
  Lisa Nichols: I'm not even sure how to answer this one percent.
• 45:32
  Lisa Nichols: One percent of what?
• 45:33
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 45:34
  Lisa Nichols: And he said, and nobody knew.
• 45:37
  Lisa Nichols: And he goes, one percent of podcasts make it to four hundred episodes.
• 45:42
  Erica Wilson: Oh, wow. That's a huge deal.
• 45:44
  Lisa Nichols: So he's like Something Extra i
• 45:46
  Lisa Nichols: s a one percenter.
• 45:48
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 45:49
  Lisa Nichols: And so I did not even know that.
• 45:51
  Lisa Nichols: But, yeah, I was like, where where is Brian going with this?
• 45:55
  Lisa Nichols: I'm not really sure what he's asking here, but...
• 45:58
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 45:59
  Lisa Nichols: So thank you for that, and and I'm just so proud of you and
• 46:02
  Lisa Nichols: all your success, and you just you just shine.
• 46:05
  Lisa Nichols: You you...
• 46:06
  Lisa Nichols: You're just a shining light.
• 46:08
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 46:08
  Lisa Nichols: Every time I see you, Erica.
• 46:10
  Lisa Nichols: So I'm so excited about, you know, your continued growth and
• 46:15
  Lisa Nichols: your impact.
• 46:16
  Lisa Nichols: And, yeah.
• 46:17
  Lisa Nichols: So you so much.
• 46:18
  Erica Wilson: It's been so great catching up with you.
• 46:21
  Lisa Nichols: It's been awesome.
• 46:22
  Lisa Nichols: Alright.
• 46:23
  Lisa Nichols: You take care, and have a great rest of the day.
• 46:25
  Lisa Nichols: You too.
• 46:26
  Announcer: Something extra with Lisa Nichols is a Technology Partners production.
• 46:30
  Announcer: Copyright Technology Partners Inc twenty nineteen.
• 46:33
  Announcer: To learn more about this week's guest, check out the show notes at t
• 46:37
  Announcer: dot co slash podcast.
• 46:39
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• 46:42
  Announcer: Thank you for listening to Something Extra.