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Is the Podcast Game Falling Apart? Ownership, Equity & Surviving Predatory Deals · Earn Your Leisure

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by P and C Bank.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: A lot of people think podcasts about work are boring,
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• 0:39
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• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Let's start with it on podcasts falling apart, so Gilbert Arenas.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: He announced on his podcast that Underdog Fantasy owns fifty
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: percent of his show and that they could potentially lead
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: to downsizing potentially maybe less episodes, maybe less less staff
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: if the revenue, you know, doesn't make sense as far
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: as Underdog standards and you know, what they think is
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: be appropriate as far as the spend that they're putting
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: into the show versus the money that they get out
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: of the show. We've also saw Mark Lamont Hill and
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Queen's Flip almost get into a fight some.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: Of my brothers, two of my brothers. I don't like
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: when the family sids.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: You know, saw, you know a few other few other
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: staples in the hip hop community, you know, throw shots
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: at each other. We've seen a lot of stuff is happening.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: So is the podcast game falling apart?
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: I've been screaming this for three or four years, but
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: most of the people that y'all see who are.
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: Potton things may not be going to the end.
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: Just not the Queens Flip, but Marcus, those my brothers,
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: brothers in arms yet they got I'm glad they talked
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: it out.
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: Talked to Flip the other day.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: But to me, it is a indicator of how well
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: someone is or is not doing, based on how quickly
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: they are willing to get into arguments with others.
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: Shouts out the rappers, shout every crew.
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: I love y'all, But I think when things are going well,
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: there are signs, right one sign Nori everything y'all know Norri.
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: Every time I see Instagram Monico yeah bottom from j
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: Zy he with Tati uh just new watch Norrid got
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: seventy three watches in the last.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: You Got chill Man, You Got chill Man got.
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: To Jacob and co Connor sore right, you see that
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: even Joe Joe Gett into a lot less kerfuffles these
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: days after that uh number got leaked. So our podcast
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: in trouble. Yes, I think the formation of them. I
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: like Gill a lot. Gils Arena actually is one of
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: my favorite shows. But the difference that we have to
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: stress is that every good deal, in good partnership that
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: looks good may not be good for you long term.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: What good is a partnership if it.
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: Removes They removed his name off of gils Arena.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: Now Gilli straight gives money, you'll probably may what four
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: hundred million in this lifetime in the NBA, So he's fine.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: But I do think some of these podcasts and streaming
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: deals can be predatory. Even the guy from Twitch saying
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: Kay isn't on the mount rushmore of streaming, Like, how
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: name me for other?
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: What he said, both Kay and Speed are on the
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: mount what?
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he said, Kay and Speed are not on the
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: mount of streaming.
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: So yeah, independence is important.
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: Could being a good business person is your own and
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: the one thing I want to stress.
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: Like people.
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: A lot of times go for bigger viewership, the number
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: that really matters is percentage of equity and.
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: Non deludable shares.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: It's a lot of y'all who get in two million
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: views and can't scrounge up twenty thousand for an emergency.
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: Don't walk into the predatory deal is my advice. Continue
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: to build, build a craft that people are going to
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: need from you. But I think it's a travesty what
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: is being done with that deal structure and the timing
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: of it after.
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: The gambling iron.
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: Even in that he get arrested for underground gambling and
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: here come underdog taking fifty percent rights, be careful.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: One hundred percent. And I also think just some game,
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: you know, if you guys are interested. And I said
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: this before for you content creators out there, I don't
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: think that if your business model evolves solely around revenue
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: that's produce from people watching your show, as far as
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: like ad dollars, that's a mistake.
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: Mistake.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: Now, not to say there's nothing wrong with ad dollars,
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: but that should be added. That should be added on.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: You should be okay litnus test if you're not able
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: to run your show in a hypothetical scenario that you
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: have zero AD dollars, then you need to work your
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: business model. So what a lot of people do is
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: they have a fire, they have paywall. Joe butten obviously
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: has done it the best as far as his patreon
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: is concerned, right where he has free content, but then
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: he has a patreon as well, right, And you see
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: that with a lot of shows, whereas horrible decisions, whether
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: it's you know, eighty five South with Channel eighty five,
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: they have the free content which is used as like
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: a gateway to the paymall. Knowing that everybody's not gonna
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: go to the paywall, but there'll be enough paid subscribers
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: that it balances out the free content. That's one way.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: That's one way. Another way is to offer products and
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: services that also can serve as as another form of
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: a paywall. Right. So I say that all the time.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: As far as if you look at market mondays that's
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: public school, and that's that's free for anybody. But if
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: you really want to know where to buy, right the
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: prices and the lists and all that, well, that's red Panda.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: If you really want to know how to if you
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: really want to know how to trade options. If you
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: really want to know get the financial planning calls and
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: the resources that we have. That's EYL University. So we
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: offer both both ways, right, but that's another way, and
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: I think that you really have to think about it
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: in bigger terms as far as the free platforms that
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: we're on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, Instagram, Twitter, as long as
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: because they're not always potentially even going to be able
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: to be we're not always potentially going to have this
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: reach that we have because it is it is good
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: to be able to reach a lot of people. The
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: downside is that you don't get paid. But as you're
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: reaching people, you're supposed to use that to grow your brand.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: So now you can do other things outside of that, right,
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: so just think about that. You're a content creator. But
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: if you're just saying, Okay, I'm going to make content
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: all day and my revenue model is going to be selling,
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: then you it's going to be a difficult a difficult scenario,
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: cause the anything can happen. And when you start to
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: lose revenue or when they said, like I said, Underdog,
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: they want to cut back, now you have nothing. You
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: have no other option, but to say, Okay, whatever you
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: want to do because you own half of the show.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: And my whole thing is, I don't know why you
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: need to own the show. Like you can, you can
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: be an ad partner. You could be an ad partner
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: and we can, we can, we can have a deal
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: when you own a show. And it's like obviously Gilbert
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: Reenas you already he already has money. So that's another thing.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: Don't be afraid to put your money up sometimes, like
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: as an entrepreneur, like and there's been a few people
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: potentially like that kind of fall in that situation where
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: you would think from the outside, didn't like they already
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: have they came into it. See we're anomalies if you like.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: As far as the people that actually most people in
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty five in podcast space, let's say for black
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: men podcast space, not streamers podcast space, most of them
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: are a celebrity from a time before. So camera over
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: Cameron and mates with celebrities from a time before when
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: they used to wrap Gilbert A. Reenas and his crew
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: was the celebrities been time before when they used to
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: play basketball. All the smoke with celebrities from time before
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: when they used to play basketball Noriego was a celebrity
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: the time before when when he used to rap, Fat
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: Joe and Jada they were seleebrities. I mean they still rap,
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: but you know, celebrities from hip hop and they carried
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: it over. Now you got Jim Jones, Mayo, Fabulous, Davi's rappers,
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: so Joe, butten a rapper who carried who carried it over.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: There's not a lot of people at the high level,
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: at the at the higher echelon that we're not any
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: level of celebrity that broke through. And it's going to
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: become that now it's even hard, it's harder.
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  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: They all they all saw the plays and now they're
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: all coming in. All of the rappers, all the basketball players,
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: all the football the pivot those are ex football players.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: They're all coming into the space. So now they have
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: a they have an advantage over you because you're starting
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: with a thousand followers. They're starting with a million followers
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: already Travis.
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: Kelsey and his brother. But the differentiator and equalize it is,
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: do you have a skill set that many are not
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: talking about that can help millions or billions of people.
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: I would love to see someone in this era just
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: talk about how to get hired in corporate and succeed.
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of gaps that can be filled, and
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: a very important key lesson is to not follow everyone
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: else's business model and not to be in a sector
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: or space that everyone else is in. When I came
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: in and I was charging premium prices, people like, you're crazy.
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: I'm like, it's crazy to not charge premium Here we
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: are a lot of people have tried to adjust. Twenty
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: twenty six, I got a plan for y'all, and I'm
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: gonna show you. At one time, I remember when it
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: wasn't involved to talk about investing or stocks and not
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: here we are. There's a proliferation of people that do that.
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: Twenty twenty six, I got a plan for y'all. Stay tuned.
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: A great piece of advice in business is to always
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: do the opposite of what the field is doing. And
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: I see a lot of people broadcasting podcasting who are
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: copying the same model. And it's like, but the ownership
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: pieces is smart because if they can get him to
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: focus on.
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: The football show to sell more ads to that audience,
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: which is more beneficial for Underdog.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: Allegedly, but I dropped Gilbert's value talking about basketball, which
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: that's a really great show. I can demonize. You take
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: your audience and then sell ads against the audience that
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: you built for your lifetime since you've been a ballplayer.
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: He's not the only one that goes. And the most
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: important thing to in business is to be able to
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: say no.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: That's why I tell y'all some of them conversations of Okay,
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: if you get one p fifty, can you just say no,
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: I don't want to do this on my show.
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: No, no, no, I don't want to. My favorite thing
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: in businesses I don't feel like it. You want me
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: to really do it? Pay me seven million, I don't
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: want to do it. Sorry.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And the thing about it is you got to
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: be able to Sometimes you're chasing something that might not
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: be as profitable as what you already have. I said
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: that before, Like as far as never discount a niche audience.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: We might not have the largest audience in the world,
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: but we have an educated audience that has higher income,
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: that has a higher level of priorities. I would rather
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: have our audience than some like you know, a lot
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: of everyone named nobody's names, but there's a lot of
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: people that might talk about rap or something like and
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: they get a million views. But it's like, these people
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: just stay the job. They don't work, they don't contribute
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: to society. They're not going to be a customer to
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: you ever, They're never going to like So it's like,
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: never discount quality overall.
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: Yes, ten threesome that go for business.
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: You can't even sell an audience to a CpG company
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: if you wanted to.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: So that's just some game for you guys if you're
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: interested in but you know, you do what you want
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: with it.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: But kudos to love the show. I hope he can
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: work his way out of the deal. But be careful,
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: my brother, you got a hot show. Be careful.
• 13:14
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