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Strictly Come Hamster - Season 26 (featuring Luke Molloy & Daniel Knight) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:34
  Boys, I've only got one thing to say to you.
• 0:38
  If we fight, we will destroy this podcast.
• 0:42
  We will destroy ourselves. Welcome back to Strictly Come
• 0:47
  Hamster. My name is Joe Ford doing an
• 0:50
  abysmal Sylvester McCoy impression from the end of
• 0:52
  survival. I would like to hand you over
• 0:55
  now to the delectable Mr. Rod Brown.
• 0:58
  Hello, Rod. How are you?
• 0:59
  Hello, Joe. And I've got one question for
• 1:00
  you, Joe. What manner of man are you?
• 1:05
  After many men have asked that question and nobody ever really
• 1:08
  wanted to know the answer. Well, I was going to quote back
• 1:10
  Ghost Lights and say you're a shameless wanton, but no.
• 1:14
  It's true. It's.
• 1:16
  True, if the cap fits. So we are here discussing as if
• 1:21
  Joe's amazing impression at the beginning didn't give out away.
• 1:24
  We are here discussing Season 26 and it's kind of by accident
• 1:29
  that actually this is the last series from the original run
• 1:32
  that we're covering on strictly that ends a decade.
• 1:35
  So we've done 1969, which had generally positive but some
• 1:39
  mixed reviews. We had 1979, which was very
• 1:44
  positive I would say on the whole.
• 1:46
  So following that trajectory, this should be, we should all be
• 1:49
  absolutely gushing over these four stories tonight.
• 1:52
  And our listeners have been, because I think the comments are
• 1:54
  probably our most positive that we've had so far.
• 1:57
  But of course, this is strictly so.
• 1:59
  There's always a few contrary views along the way.
• 2:01
  A shame those people weren't fucking watching in 1989, isn't
• 2:04
  it? There was 3.
• 2:05
  The show was. Dragged off the air, Yeah,
• 2:08
  probably just happened when born.
• 2:10
  Well, that's true. Good point.
• 2:12
  Some of us were including someone sitting on this Zoom
• 2:15
  call right now. These blooming twinks?
• 2:19
  I don't know. So come on, let's go back to
• 2:22
  1989 when we were told that Doctor Who wasn't cancelled.
• 2:25
  No, it wasn't. It was just taking a short break
• 2:28
  of seven years and another new Sky TV launched in 1989.
• 2:33
  But don't worry, because Doctor Who is strictly ABBC show and
• 2:37
  will never end up on a streaming service.
• 2:40
  But back to tonight and help us sort out our maiden's point from
• 2:44
  our Carberry Trust. We've got two very special
• 2:47
  guests. They're going to help us decide
• 2:49
  which story is going to be lifting the liquor and glitter
• 2:51
  ball and obviously which story is going to be sent to Java.
• 2:56
  So let's meet tonight's very special guests.
• 2:59
  Should we start with the youngster in the room?
• 3:01
  The. Time.
• 3:01
  The time Twink himself. Please introduce yourself.
• 3:05
  Hello, I'm Luke Malloy. Podcast ho.
• 3:10
  You still have a podcast, but I'll just turn off everyone
• 3:12
  else's. And I'm very excited to be here
• 3:15
  tonight talking about, well, we don't give too much away, do we?
• 3:18
  But what is, on the whole I would say, not an improper
• 3:21
  opinion, a very good series of Doctor Who sounds.
• 3:25
  Good to me, I'd. Say you're a podcast slut more
• 3:27
  than I do, but yeah. I'll take it.
• 3:31
  Good, as you well know. I was going to say, I don't want
• 3:35
  to know what else you're taking. Anyway, moving swiftly on to
• 3:38
  Daniel. Hello.
• 3:40
  Yes, I'm Daniel Knight. I'm not exactly a podcast ho,
• 3:45
  I'm more a podcast. What's the passenger?
• 3:48
  Maybe. I think that sounds a bit more
• 3:52
  more appropriate for a man in my profession.
• 3:55
  Yes. So I've done quite a few.
• 3:56
  Strictly not strictly a hamster Podcasts.
• 4:01
  I've done the The Jason, No Jim Allenby's What's in the Box.
• 4:06
  Had great fun with that and Sy Hearts library of Impossible
• 4:12
  Things. Trying to remember all these all
• 4:13
  these podcasts I've been on and enjoyed every one of them I want
• 4:17
  to and Jason Miller's Talk to Your literature as well.
• 4:20
  So. Maybe not a slut, but I'd say
• 4:22
  you're virgin on being a degenerate there and a little.
• 4:26
  Bit of bonus there, yeah? Have I?
• 4:28
  Oh, well then, but yeah. I'd I'd just go on Joe's over
• 4:31
  and over again. That's right.
• 4:33
  Have not spread my wings. Not spread your what?
• 4:35
  Sorry, but but he has due to himself.
• 4:37
  He I'm part of a foursome. Excuse me, you and me have gone
• 4:43
  solo quite a few times. Thank you very much.
• 4:46
  We have indeed, yes. So we are setting the tone for
• 4:49
  tonight. Moving on, moving on.
• 4:52
  OK, so before we get into the stories themselves, let's just
• 4:56
  talk about the season as a whole.
• 4:57
  Were we around when it was on? Obviously some of us weren't,
• 5:01
  but what did we think about it when we first saw it, and what
• 5:03
  do we think about it now? Daniel, let's start with you.
• 5:07
  OK, so I was when you asked me to be to be on this, to do this
• 5:11
  season, I was slightly disappointed because I'm not
• 5:14
  because I don't like it, but because I do.
• 5:17
  And I think this is going to be a really tough decision, a
• 5:19
  really tough choice to to choose which is the best one because I
• 5:23
  really like all four stories. Possibly I've got a pecking
• 5:28
  order of which I would, I would put them in and you might be
• 5:32
  surprised which comes last. But this is a very, very strong
• 5:35
  series, and definitely not a series on its last legs.
• 5:40
  Last year I did AI did a A blog about the top 60, my favorite 60
• 5:45
  stories. And two of the stories from this
• 5:47
  season were in it, including one which probably people would
• 5:50
  think shouldn't be in it. And that's Battlefield, because
• 5:52
  it is a huge amount of fun, but it's not without its issues.
• 5:55
  But it's a huge amount of fun and I think that all all four
• 5:59
  stories are brilliant and in their own special way and
• 6:03
  they're so varied as well. Even though they're all set on
• 6:07
  Earth, apart from a quick trip to the BBC sandpit in Dorset,
• 6:13
  they're all Earth based, which then again links it with the
• 6:16
  series revival that you know they they came to the conclusion
• 6:20
  that you've got to set this on Earth because we can't afford
• 6:23
  space corridors we've run out of.
• 6:26
  We've run out of baco foil and all the other cliches about you
• 6:30
  know Doctor Who being set in space.
• 6:33
  And it's it's a really, really strong story and it's just such
• 6:37
  A and then an annoyance that that just as it was getting this
• 6:41
  good, an apathetic. I mean, Jonathan Powell is a
• 6:46
  snob, A cultural snob, and another very intelligent one.
• 6:49
  Because to have a show like Duck 2 with its heritage, with its
• 6:53
  fan base and not just in this country but around the world
• 6:57
  made absolutely no financial sense whatsoever.
• 7:01
  And and the the story was that they they they used to the BBC
• 7:04
  was saying that when they stopped making it but we're
• 7:06
  releasing it on video. They made more money on the
• 7:10
  videos than they did, than it, than it cost to make them.
• 7:13
  And that's just, well, I know it was 30 years ago, but it really
• 7:18
  gets. Gets up my mind I should I?
• 7:20
  Should let go. I should let it go.
• 7:22
  We did have to sacrifice the series in order for us to get
• 7:25
  Dylan Reese's Too Hot for TV podcasts, which would not exist
• 7:29
  if we didn't have the work this year.
• 7:31
  So that's a sacrifice I'm prepared to make, absolutely.
• 7:36
  What are you talking about? So one other very quick point,
• 7:42
  because something you said there what a time it was to be alive.
• 7:44
  Last year there were three amazing blogs going on side by
• 7:49
  Side Yours, Fraser's and Luke Malloy's all at the same time I
• 7:54
  was. Mine was right.
• 7:56
  Well, I mean, I was just Fraser. 'S was very questionable, let's
• 7:59
  be honest. Every morning I was waking up
• 8:01
  going, what is this bullshit? Come on now.
• 8:03
  Oh. I'm so sorry about that.
• 8:05
  Don't worry, it was still a great read though.
• 8:09
  And Luke? Yeah, it was.
• 8:12
  The question was, well, I wasn't around, so definitely wasn't
• 8:15
  around. OK.
• 8:16
  When were you born? Luke Malloy I.
• 8:18
  I was born two months before the TV movie, not that I remember
• 8:22
  watching it. Who invited him along?
• 8:27
  So yeah, I think, wait, I do second sort of what Daniel was
• 8:30
  saying in a way that when I when you invited me on for this one,
• 8:33
  it was a bit like, oh, it's such a strong season there.
• 8:36
  It's like, can it be interesting?
• 8:40
  OK, can it be interesting to talk about?
• 8:42
  I'm sure it will be. We we tend to have quite
• 8:46
  contrary Doctor Who opinions between the four of us.
• 8:49
  And yeah. And the other, the other part
• 8:52
  was I think whichever 1 gets kicked out or you know if one
• 8:57
  gets kicked out in round one or anything like that, it is going
• 8:59
  to be, it's still going to be a very good story that goes, it's
• 9:02
  not going to be your typical one that is kicked out in around
• 9:05
  one. That would be what I'd say on
• 9:07
  the surface. But actually coming to it the
• 9:09
  first time around I I collected the DVD so I got them in a
• 9:12
  really random order. I remember seeing survival a lot
• 9:17
  when I was very young, like when I was first getting into it,
• 9:20
  because I just loved the whole rock and the earth thing.
• 9:23
  But I won't go too specific, but there's one story in here that I
• 9:28
  kept coming back to. It just intrigues me more and
• 9:31
  more and I still come back to it a lot now.
• 9:35
  And yeah, I'll be, I'll be going in on that one at some point.
• 9:38
  Luke is there evil in the water? I'm not saying anyway, swimming
• 9:45
  stupid. You wicked evil boy.
• 9:50
  Oh, baby doll. Oh dear.
• 9:52
  It's going to be one of those nights.
• 9:55
  Joe. Hello.
• 9:56
  I'm not being the most contrary on our panel.
• 9:59
  I've, I there are two I'm uncertain about, two I love, and
• 10:04
  two I'm uncertain about. One could go either way.
• 10:06
  So I'd like to hear everyone else's opinions first before I
• 10:10
  so, well, someone's got to bring some negative, right?
• 10:12
  We can't all. We can't just be a bloody group
• 10:15
  jerk off can it? Overseas in 26, but I do think
• 10:19
  this is a very strong year of Doctor Who.
• 10:21
  Confident, action-packed, smart, brilliant music and
• 10:25
  unforgettable array of guest characters.
• 10:27
  A Doctrine companion completely In Sync with each other, An
• 10:31
  attempt to experiment with the show.
• 10:34
  I think it's it's really, really confident 26 and really the
• 10:38
  worst time for the show to get the axe.
• 10:41
  If I was going to say something against it.
• 10:43
  I think two of the directors this year were very ill chosen
• 10:47
  and maybe they should have cast their net a bit wider.
• 10:50
  There was another director chosen for one of the stories
• 10:53
  this year and it would have been a better story as a result.
• 10:57
  But if that's all I can say against this year is doing
• 11:00
  something very good indeed. Yeah, it's it's it's a terrific
• 11:03
  year of Doctor Who. I can't really add much to
• 11:05
  everything you guys have said to me this was or is, was and is an
• 11:10
  absolute golden era of Doctor Who.
• 11:12
  I think it's firing on all cylinders.
• 11:14
  It's so bold and confident, which is quite unusual given the
• 11:19
  environment it was being produced in when the BBC just
• 11:21
  hated it with a passion and would do anything to get rid of
• 11:25
  it. And yet the confidence behind
• 11:27
  the scenes and the balls just to to, you know, make a series that
• 11:32
  is so different to what's gone before.
• 11:34
  It's it's got a style and an atmosphere all of its own, which
• 11:38
  is very different to what's gone before.
• 11:39
  And you think this was this was going out against Coronation
• 11:42
  Street at the time, so it was wanting to do something
• 11:46
  different. Oh my God, it did do something
• 11:48
  different. Bold, exciting, fun, wildly
• 11:52
  entertaining. I think this is Doctor Who at
• 11:54
  its absolute peak. I wonder if those BBT execs that
• 11:58
  cancelled the show for do you know what?
• 12:00
  Now we're going to watch Doctor Who this year and we'll see, you
• 12:04
  know, if it's worth continuing or not.
• 12:06
  And then they switched on episode one of Battlefield and
• 12:08
  oh, Alastair, this would look great, like one of our Azalea
• 12:11
  beds. Oh, cancel the fucking show.
• 12:13
  What are they doing starting in a garden centre?
• 12:17
  I just need to add, when I came to it, when I started watching
• 12:20
  it would have been like mid 2000s and from the off the fan
• 12:23
  consensus was that it was very good.
• 12:25
  I'd come at a time where fans had obviously turned around to
• 12:29
  it and it's one of the only times.
• 12:30
  But if I consensus feel felt like it was actually correct
• 12:35
  overall the only. But then I went, I remember
• 12:39
  going around to a friend's house and him asked his dad asking me
• 12:42
  who is my favorite doctor and at that point I said Sylvester
• 12:46
  McCoy and he laughed in my face. It was.
• 12:49
  There was and I was a child, yeah, but so there was
• 12:55
  definitely that That opinion that there have been at the time
• 12:58
  was still is sat in the minds of people that aren't particularly
• 13:02
  Doctor Who fans. I think I.
• 13:03
  Think it's still out there? I think you're right.
• 13:05
  I think that still pervades to this day.
• 13:06
  I think Sylvester is still seen as kind of a a comedy byline.
• 13:09
  So anyone wants to make a joke at Doctor Who, they'll point to
• 13:12
  Sylvester, which is just so. I mean, I am going to point out
• 13:16
  some points during this season where the material that he was
• 13:20
  given was beyond his ability to act.
• 13:23
  Because it come on, let's be honest, he has, he has a ceiling
• 13:28
  and he bumps into it quite a lot.
• 13:30
  But don't they nearly don't. Most of them at some point bump
• 13:33
  against the ceiling that they can't?
• 13:35
  Yeah. Fucking well.
• 13:36
  I mean, Peter Davidson, they're breathing.
• 13:37
  Tries to get near the ceiling. Does he?
• 13:40
  No, he's too busy yawning in the background.
• 13:42
  Colin so loud he's destroyed the ceiling, you know.
• 13:45
  There isn't a ceiling as far as Colin's concerned, or or indeed
• 13:49
  Tom. Or told that's why they're
• 13:51
  great. My legs, my arms, my ceiling,
• 13:54
  it's all gone. There is, if there's one sort of
• 13:58
  negative there is as I, I, I do love it.
• 14:01
  But there is a slight B movie vibe to at least two of these
• 14:06
  stories, which I think generally comes from the acting because I
• 14:10
  think the production, the productions of all four are
• 14:13
  quite strong. But yeah, I think if you, if
• 14:16
  you're a like a normal person, if you're a a non, a non
• 14:20
  doctorate, none of. Us can associate with that none
• 14:23
  of. Us.
• 14:23
  You would? No.
• 14:24
  You would probably think that too, if they were quite be movie
• 14:27
  ish at least. Also what?
• 14:30
  Oh. Sorry Daniel if you.
• 14:31
  Can. No, no, no, You carry on.
• 14:32
  What does it say while we're doing floor?
• 14:34
  Sorry, we've got onto this now is there's a very on earth feel
• 14:38
  to this season as well. I know we go to that Cheetah
• 14:41
  planet for like an episode is very much doing the season.
• 14:45
  One thing of sort of grounding the show and I think it needed
• 14:47
  it as well. But I do miss the diversity of
• 14:51
  of heading off in space so swings around abouts.
• 14:55
  Sorry, Dave. Well I was going to say I think
• 14:58
  the the one thing that does work against it and works against the
• 15:01
  whole of the Sylvester McCoy era is that it's all on a on outside
• 15:04
  broadcast which makes everything look so cheap and so it's so
• 15:10
  clear and and everything looks so brightly lit.
• 15:14
  Even when it's not brightly lit it looks really cheap,
• 15:18
  especially given the move at the time.
• 15:20
  That drama was all on film except soaps and it was made in
• 15:25
  such an archaic way of production at that time.
• 15:29
  In fact the only half hour dramas at the time were were
• 15:34
  children's dramas like The Chronicles of Narnia and Mondial
• 15:37
  and Dark Season and shows like that which were all made by the
• 15:40
  children's department. So Doctor Who it was almost like
• 15:43
  well this is this is not even though it's been shown at 7:30
• 15:47
  on a on a Wednesday night, we're still regarding it as As for
• 15:51
  kids and it and that that almost sort of you have that immediacy
• 15:55
  of videotape that takes you out of it in comparison to sort of
• 15:59
  watching something on film. Also it was it was incredibly
• 16:02
  cheap. I mean I remember Doctor G
• 16:04
  Magazine saying that the budget for this would be one point for
• 16:07
  the whole season was £1.6 million, which in my naivety
• 16:12
  thought, oh that's a lot of money.
• 16:14
  No it isn't. When you consider that you can
• 16:16
  make it that you're making two episodes of Star Trek across the
• 16:19
  the wall, across the pond for the same amount of money and
• 16:23
  they and even now Star Trek The Next Generation, that looks
• 16:26
  stated as well to be on it, to be fair.
• 16:29
  I washed one of those this morning for another podcast.
• 16:31
  You know, there ain't nothing in season 26 that looks as bad as
• 16:34
  season one of Star Trek Nation. Well.
• 16:36
  Yeah. And they had, yeah, you're
• 16:38
  right, they had about 10 times the budget.
• 16:40
  Yeah, but against. But the positive of this is that
• 16:45
  if this is an exceptionally mature adult season, there are
• 16:51
  characters fall in love. There's unrequited love that you
• 16:54
  could argue there's about abusive relationships.
• 16:57
  There are political subtexts as racism allegories.
• 17:00
  After having, you know, a few years of Saywood syndrome with a
• 17:03
  with a script editor who was trying to belittle the the lead
• 17:07
  actor. You've got a script editor here
• 17:09
  who was working not just with his doctor but with his
• 17:12
  companion. And they are joint leads.
• 17:14
  And Sophie Aldridge gets the best material that any companion
• 17:18
  did in the classic series. That's what I think.
• 17:21
  Yeah. Change.
• 17:22
  She didn't have the talent to to pull it off.
• 17:26
  She did get some. She does, she does.
• 17:28
  But I think there are people, yeah, sometimes, yeah, that her,
• 17:33
  her inexperience shows through. But like Nicola Bryant, she was
• 17:37
  straight from drama school, wasn't she?
• 17:39
  This was her first lead role in a in ATV series.
• 17:43
  So you're going to have some experience, inexperience in
• 17:45
  that? It might sound like faint
• 17:47
  praise, but she was an exceptional presenter on
• 17:49
  corners. Unlike Joe, I think an
• 17:53
  experience actually helps the character like it.
• 17:56
  It makes her feel real and sort of naive and young, which I
• 18:01
  think really adds to it. But I know, I promise we'll go
• 18:05
  to the comments in a second. What you said there about this
• 18:08
  being a mature season, I think it tries to be a mature season,
• 18:13
  but in the way of the new adventures.
• 18:15
  And boy, am I going to bring those up a few times this
• 18:17
  season. It can also dive over a Cliff
• 18:22
  into angst and it can be a bit agonising at times and we are
• 18:25
  sometimes in sort of low rent soap opera territory and I'll do
• 18:30
  a bit of quotes later if you don't believe me.
• 18:32
  But then I think Doctor Who had never done this before, that you
• 18:35
  can sort of give it a pass in a way that it's it's at least on
• 18:39
  new ground and even if it's going too far in One Direction,
• 18:42
  we're we're doing something new. Did soap before?
• 18:45
  Did you not watch Season 19 with Andrew, Tegan and Nyssa in their
• 18:48
  bedrooms all the time? Because this is you're right,
• 18:52
  it's doing something new and different.
• 18:54
  And if it had been, if it had been given the space and the
• 18:57
  ability to continue, you know, who knows where it would have
• 19:00
  gone. Because it was, it was going in
• 19:02
  a very definite direction. And I would have loved to have
• 19:05
  seen more series under the directorship of even JNT, but
• 19:09
  certainly Andrew Carmel on the team and Sylvester and Sophie,
• 19:13
  let's just see more of them. It will, you know they were,
• 19:15
  they were still finding their feet I think a bit by the 3rd
• 19:18
  year they were trying new things.
• 19:19
  They were trying a lot of it's, I mean this series is so
• 19:22
  experimental. They are still pushing at the
• 19:25
  boundaries of what they can get away with doing, and it's just a
• 19:28
  shame that experiment ended here.
• 19:31
  One last thing, I think it lacks a Stephen Wyatt script, which
• 19:36
  you had in 25 and sorry, 24 and 25.
• 19:39
  And I would have loved to have seen why I do another script in
• 19:42
  26 because I really think he was coming on.
• 19:45
  He did Paradise Towers, then he didn't.
• 19:46
  Know which. Which story would you replace
• 19:48
  though? Oh, we don't need to.
• 19:50
  We don't need to know what that. To happen, Good try, just to
• 19:53
  tease. But again, that's the trouble
• 19:56
  with only having four stories a season, isn't it?
• 19:58
  I mean they had so many in the melting pot, but you've you're
• 20:02
  so limited by what you can produce.
• 20:04
  That's why I've been talking bollocks for the last 10
• 20:06
  minutes, because I'll see that at the runtime, people.
• 20:08
  Have said like that's that sort of annoys them that this is
• 20:12
  regarded as one of the best seasons because it's been
• 20:15
  because it's been compared to like seasons with 40 episodes
• 20:19
  and this has got like 12 and that makes it unfair.
• 20:21
  But then I'm just like sort of what Daniel was saying that
• 20:24
  there's so, there's so much pot and story and new things going
• 20:28
  on in these 12 that it it is one of the best seasons compared to
• 20:32
  them, 40 compared to season five, you know?
• 20:37
  Why don't you? You and I both love trial of the
• 20:38
  Time Lord as well, Lou, don't we?
• 20:40
  So maybe our opinion shouldn't be listened to.
• 20:43
  Joe, your opinion should never be listened to.
• 20:45
  Fair, right. Should we, should we get into
• 20:47
  the comments? Our guests are now reading our
• 20:50
  comments for us. So, Joe.
• 20:51
  I'm just going to go and get my slippers on.
• 20:53
  Hang on. Yeah, OK.
• 20:55
  OK, we got Dylan Reece. He's already been named Joe.
• 20:58
  Who's that? Who's that?
• 20:59
  Dylan race the man who cancelled Doctor Who So.
• 21:06
  He's Jonathan Powell's nephew. He says there's no need to do
• 21:11
  this. Every episode is perfect, so you
• 21:14
  can't eliminate any. And thank you for listening to
• 21:16
  Strictly Come Hamster, right we'll.
• 21:18
  Be awesome. Goodbye everyone.
• 21:22
  Dan Pin says despite the opening scene being 2 old farts
• 21:26
  pottering around the garden. Centre.
• 21:28
  How dare you describe Nicholas Courtney and Angela Douglas as 2
• 21:32
  old farts banging on about their Azalea beds?
• 21:36
  This is a peak season of Doctor Who, one of my favourites.
• 21:39
  Good luck picking a winner. Gee, thanks, Dan.
• 21:44
  James Lark says this is Doctor Who firing on all cylinders and
• 21:48
  it's absolute brilliant, best punching vastly above the weight
• 21:51
  of a budget that has largely stopped showing the scale, the
• 21:55
  scale of talent in front of and behind the camera here.
• 21:58
  If we agree on nothing else, let it be sorry.
• 22:02
  If we agree on nothing else, let it be that.
• 22:04
  It demonstrates the utter dearth of imagination from the BBC
• 22:08
  execs who saw the stories as evidence that the show was in
• 22:11
  need of arrest. Artless pillaxed.
• 22:14
  A lot of them I love. That, yeah.
• 22:19
  James Sylvester The most consistently excellent series of
• 22:22
  the 1980s. Sylvan, Sophie are at the best
• 22:25
  and the guest casts in each story are strong.
• 22:27
  Criminal that the show was cancelled just as it was
• 22:30
  reaching a new peak. Sy Heart, everyone's favorite,
• 22:35
  says a triumphant end to the series.
• 22:39
  Just a pity no one was watching. As a 14 year old, this was
• 22:43
  exactly what I wanted Doctor Who to be.
• 22:46
  Fenerick was the high point for me, but there's a confidence to
• 22:49
  every single story. You know why Fenerick's his
• 22:51
  favorite, don't you? Because that fella, oh God,
• 22:54
  what's his name? You know, the one who smashes up
• 22:56
  the radios. What's the Perkins?
• 23:00
  Perkins. Oh, he wants to rim his arse so
• 23:02
  badly. He really fancies.
• 23:04
  That car. Sorry sorry Daniel can I can I
• 23:08
  apologise now for my Co host. He's used to this.
• 23:12
  What should he apologise to him? Moving on, Jane, Jason Thompson
• 23:17
  says I really love season 26. The show has found a new
• 23:21
  direction after the troubled 6 Doctor era and really is on an
• 23:25
  upswing only to be counselled by apathetic executives.
• 23:29
  Any notion that Doctor Who ended because it was getting worse is
• 23:32
  a load of Cobblers. I just wish J&T was around to
• 23:35
  see how it's been reappraised. Yeah, that's a lot.
• 23:39
  That's lovely. Yeah.
• 23:41
  Thanks, Jason. Ian Bank says a great season
• 23:44
  that signals a clear rebirth of energy and creativity.
• 23:47
  Stories are complex, clever and layered.
• 23:50
  No real, no real duds here for the first season in ages.
• 23:55
  David Gillespie Pratt I love this season.
• 23:57
  Is it perfect? No.
• 23:59
  Does it suffer from too much material for the episodes?
• 24:02
  Yes, but I don't care. It's just such fun, a comfort
• 24:05
  blanket of a season. The Doctor and Ace are such a
• 24:08
  great team and their chemistry, chemistry is incredibly good.
• 24:12
  John Arnold No money, no BBC management support, but no
• 24:16
  problem. It might skew a little dark
• 24:19
  after the perfect balance of the previous year, and what the
• 24:21
  Doctor puts Ace through is often questionable, but the show goes
• 24:25
  out with one of its strongest seasons.
• 24:29
  The wonderfully titled Big Orange Michael.
• 24:32
  One of my favourite seasons, Classical, Modern, The series
• 24:35
  has found a confidence and was fully in US in stride.
• 24:37
  Again, I wish we'd had one more season of McCoy and Oldred, but
• 24:41
  alas, it didn't happen. You're not alone there, Big
• 24:44
  orange, Michael. Oscar Groucho top tier.
• 24:49
  A Christmas Carol trilogy of Terrace in aces life past,
• 24:53
  present future, culminating in a trip back home to exorcise
• 24:57
  demons. That's good in it.
• 24:59
  We have to bring up A Christmas Carol wouldn't.
• 25:03
  It. All of time and space Podcast.
• 25:08
  Just as the show was getting back to its best, it got
• 25:11
  cancelled. So heartbreaking at the time,
• 25:13
  but an idea this good can never die for Memorable stories that
• 25:17
  end the original run in style. Richard Higson The joy of
• 25:22
  watching Doctor Who come alive again with new ideas was
• 25:25
  incredible at the time. And James and friends, to put it
• 25:30
  simply, the shape of things to come.
• 25:32
  Now that's a very ambiguous statement there to end that on,
• 25:35
  isn't it? I'm.
• 25:37
  Thinking that is a positive. I think you could either be
• 25:40
  talking about the new series or the new adventures, and
• 25:44
  whichever way you're going, that comment takes on a completely
• 25:47
  different reading. Yep.
• 25:49
  But it fits with both, right? Shall we get into the first of
• 25:54
  our stories, Daniel? Shall we start with you?
• 25:57
  Would you like to pick your story and tell us if you're
• 26:00
  going to champion or be foolish enough to condemn it?
• 26:03
  Which give them what you've already said, I think is
• 26:05
  probably going to be highly unlikely.
• 26:08
  But pick your story of choice and convince the rest of us why
• 26:11
  we should be saving it. OK, if this wasn't originally
• 26:16
  the story I was going to champion or choose to champion
• 26:19
  first, but I'm going to champion Ghost Light.
• 26:23
  Go for it. I think, and there was a review
• 26:26
  in The Independent that said this is the best Doctor Who
• 26:29
  story for about, I think you said for 10 years or something.
• 26:32
  I'd argue this is something that Doctor Who has never ever done
• 26:37
  before. It's.
• 26:39
  Yes, it is a haunted house story, but it is a haunted house
• 26:41
  story. That's so much more than that.
• 26:44
  Now in preparation for this, I've been watching the whole of
• 26:47
  the season and some of the time I've been watching it trying to
• 26:51
  get my son to sleep, my youngest one who's nearly four.
• 26:54
  And I've been sat watching it on my tablet with with speakers and
• 26:58
  you listen to it with speakers on.
• 27:00
  I know it's it was done in stereo.
• 27:02
  This is this this story has an amazing soundscape.
• 27:07
  Watching with the dark with subtitles.
• 27:08
  The dialogue comes in so rich and thick and fast that the
• 27:12
  subtitles can't keep up. And I know that when you did
• 27:16
  your commentary with James, is it James Lark about Delta and
• 27:19
  the Bannerman that the dialogue is like comic strip dialogue and
• 27:23
  the dated style of production for the the the show was still
• 27:26
  under, couldn't keep up. And I can see what he means by
• 27:29
  this because there's just so much going on and I know you
• 27:32
  could argue there's probably too much going on.
• 27:34
  I don't know. I would, I would say if I if I
• 27:39
  was slightly more intelligent and more experienced of David
• 27:43
  Lynch, David Lynch's work, I'd say this is Doctor Who entering
• 27:47
  into David Lynch territory or Sapphire and Steel.
• 27:50
  And I know that Mark Platt was a big sapphire and steel fan.
• 27:55
  Some would say that this is a return to the glories of the
• 27:58
  past, but I think it's it's it's much more than that.
• 28:01
  It's unique and I don't think there's anything like this in
• 28:04
  the classic series. I know that JNT used to sort of
• 28:07
  label stories, traditional and oddball and other things as
• 28:11
  well, and I think this is supposed to be the oddball of
• 28:14
  this of the of the of the season, in the same way that
• 28:17
  So's Happiness Patrol and Paradise Towers.
• 28:23
  I know, I know that the series, the classic series and indeed
• 28:26
  the new series has done so many stories set in Victorian times,
• 28:31
  but this is really, really something different.
• 28:35
  I think this is Sylvester's best performance, and I noticed one
• 28:39
  of the things that makes me think that is you take that
• 28:42
  silly hat off him and he has so much more gravitas.
• 28:46
  And I love the hat, but I think just take that hat off.
• 28:49
  He is in his element here. I think this is his best
• 28:51
  performance. Possibly.
• 28:54
  When he's telling Light to go, that's.
• 28:58
  Well, do the line. Why don't you forget the light?
• 29:03
  Go. And that's where you can see
• 29:07
  his, where you can see his script in his pocket, I think
• 29:12
  yeah, I still, even though he, you know, there's a little bit
• 29:15
  sometimes, I think that's that's that's his, his best
• 29:18
  performance. The scene in particular where
• 29:22
  Ace has found out where they are, that it's Gabriel Chase and
• 29:24
  she runs off and he, he confronts her.
• 29:27
  And there's that wonderfully beautiful scene between the two
• 29:30
  of them where she can't even look at him and he's sort of
• 29:34
  peering over a shoulder and he's obviously realised he's gone too
• 29:37
  far. And she says, well, don't you
• 29:40
  think? Don't you have things you hate?
• 29:42
  And he says, the line I can't stand burnt toast, which would
• 29:46
  get big, which would get a bit of a laugh.
• 29:48
  And then he says, well, I loathe bus stations, terrible places
• 29:52
  full of lost luggage and lost souls, and that's such a
• 29:55
  beautiful line. And whenever I'm in a bus
• 29:57
  station, I think, do you know what?
• 29:58
  He's right. They are horrible places, full
• 30:01
  of lost luggage and lost souls. You look at people looking at
• 30:03
  their phones or just staring into space.
• 30:05
  It's it is so evocative of what a bus station is like.
• 30:11
  Ace her character arc and I know because they changed the order
• 30:15
  of it, you could sort of say that it was slightly skewed that
• 30:20
  Fenrick should have been first and then it would have ceded the
• 30:22
  idea of Ace being in this about this haunted house.
• 30:27
  But I think actually it's it's it works either way.
• 30:29
  I think it does work when you see her talking about it in
• 30:32
  Fenerick with Kathleen. The soundtrack I think is
• 30:36
  brilliant. Marquez, I think he's one of the
• 30:40
  unsung heroes of Doctor Who and I don't think we talk about him
• 30:43
  and praise him enough because the not just scoring the series
• 30:48
  for this and Curse of Fenerick, but he's done so much work in
• 30:52
  restoring lost episodes, keeping the the, the, the archive of the
• 30:58
  Radiophonic workshop. And this is such a beautiful
• 31:01
  school as well. So evocative and so appropriate.
• 31:05
  Can you I I don't mind Kef Mcculloch's music but it would
• 31:08
  have just killed it if you'd have had Kef scoring this.
• 31:12
  And I think John Nathan Turner has worked out that he needs
• 31:15
  certain instead certain musicians for certain stories.
• 31:21
  And I think he's chosen well because you've got Battlefield
• 31:23
  the action and adventure one which kept, you know 80s drums
• 31:26
  and bass and synths work Marquez a lot more subtle.
• 31:33
  It's beautiful. Let's talk about the horror
• 31:36
  aspect, because there are some things in this that are really
• 31:40
  gory. It's I think I've, I've been my
• 31:43
  notes discreetly horrific without the need without the
• 31:46
  need for avert violence. This isn't the Eric Saywood era
• 31:51
  where people just get shot and there's a body count that's
• 31:53
  higher than Terminator, but you just do not care about them.
• 31:57
  The image of of Reverend Matthews as the ape and the
• 32:00
  glass case, I think it's horrific.
• 32:02
  It's just really gruesome without actually being gruesome.
• 32:07
  There's a bit where like has the he's he's torn the the mate's
• 32:11
  arm off and you see it and I don't know if I'm just imagining
• 32:14
  it but you could say it looks rubbery.
• 32:17
  But it also looks I think there's the the the wrist sort
• 32:21
  of slightly moves as he turns round.
• 32:23
  So it looks effective enough for it not to be too gruesome.
• 32:26
  But yeah, it's not too much for for the for the kids lying.
• 32:29
  There as well, Daniel I. Wanted to see how it works, so I
• 32:33
  dismantled it. Yeah.
• 32:37
  Inspector Mackenzie's fob watch in the soup.
• 32:41
  And Ace's reaction she got, Oh no, you know, brown Windsor
• 32:45
  soup. We've got Frank Windsor soup
• 32:47
  instead Gwendolyn and Gwendolyn and Mrs. Pritchard being turned
• 32:52
  into stone. And just to say and the the the
• 32:55
  tragedy of it is they realise they've been you know they their
• 32:58
  lives have been taken over by this person, by this Josiah and
• 33:01
  ruined and they're reunited as as mother and daughter and then
• 33:05
  suddenly they're turned into to to stone.
• 33:08
  Even the bit where Josiah squashes the insect with the
• 33:10
  soup spoon, it's it's a the sound of the sound of it on on
• 33:14
  the headphones was really graphic there.
• 33:16
  It's quite brutal. And I I there was a a review of
• 33:20
  in DWM of the day talking about implicit violence so things that
• 33:25
  you could get away with without it being too overly violent.
• 33:28
  So this is and that I think that's what makes this story far
• 33:31
  more interesting and far more grown up than any say would
• 33:35
  massacre story any day. You've got a fantastic cast.
• 33:38
  Ian Hogg who was seemed to be who was at the time, was famous
• 33:42
  for Rockcliffe. He makes Josiah A credible
• 33:45
  villain. He's got the right amount of
• 33:46
  archness, but not too OTT. Sylvia Sims a great performance.
• 33:52
  She doesn't get a huge amount of dialogue, but she has such a
• 33:55
  presence, that smile when she sort of she she's about to
• 34:01
  chloroform Reverend Matthews the way she grabs Sophie Aldridge's
• 34:06
  hair and Sophie said that she learned a lot from from working
• 34:11
  with her. She said you know how to how to
• 34:13
  react as she pulled her hair. Even though she wasn't pulling
• 34:15
  her hair too much, she told her how to react so it looked like
• 34:18
  she really was pulling her hair. Sharon Juice, who plays Control
• 34:22
  on the face of this, this is a really weird performance.
• 34:26
  You could argue it's slightly hammy, but actually it's very
• 34:29
  clever. She's childlike, but she's also
• 34:32
  very brutal. It's she's real.
• 34:34
  She's weird and a wild character, and you see her
• 34:39
  evolving from that sort of slightly wildness into a more
• 34:44
  ladylike character. You could argue maybe John
• 34:49
  Hallam's a little bit hammy as as but I think he's actually
• 34:53
  quite creepy as well. Yeah, yeah, there's so much,
• 35:00
  yeah. There's so much in this story to
• 35:02
  enjoy the soundscape. As I said, that nightmare of
• 35:05
  scene where Ace is sort of trapped in that corridor and you
• 35:10
  hear that, the birds, the stuffed birds screeching, and
• 35:13
  then you see the blue light and the siren, like she's having
• 35:16
  some weird sort of flashback nightmare.
• 35:18
  So really, really well done. It's really well done.
• 35:23
  And then you see her, you see Gwendolyn coming up behind her
• 35:27
  with the cloth and going, I want to send you to Java.
• 35:30
  And then it it cuts to the next scene.
• 35:32
  So yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to champion Ghost Light.
• 35:35
  And I didn't think I'm going to champion Ghost Light, to be
• 35:37
  honest, until I watched it the other week and was absolutely
• 35:40
  blown away by it. Well, I think you've made your
• 35:43
  views quite clear on that. I think you kind of like it.
• 35:47
  Shall we go to the comments? I don't know what we've got left
• 35:50
  to talk about if I want. I know.
• 35:52
  I was thinking that. I was thinking that.
• 35:54
  You could have. You could have just said shut
• 35:55
  up, Daniel. Shut up.
• 35:56
  Tell me to shut up. It's 3.
• 35:57
  Reasons all right, not 2. Oh, is it?
• 35:59
  Sorry, that's no worry. Don't worry, that must go.
• 36:05
  That was one of the best arguments I've heard.
• 36:07
  Yeah. Thank you.
• 36:08
  We're going to start with a contrary view.
• 36:11
  James H says a story so obsessed with trying to be literate and
• 36:16
  scientific it completely forgets that it has to make sense and
• 36:20
  fit into a real world. Looks fab, but a great example
• 36:23
  of setting a story in the past and forgetting how the past
• 36:26
  actually works. Paul Smyth says rewards multiple
• 36:30
  viewings. It is the most multi layered
• 36:32
  story of the series. BBC does period drama so well.
• 36:36
  Sylvester's best performers as the Doctor.
• 36:38
  Paul Dunn says No idea why people struggle with this.
• 36:41
  It's quite clear BBC doing period superbly as ever, Dark
• 36:45
  and atmospheric. Sylvia Sims is phenomenal.
• 36:47
  Love the Cream of Scotland. I love the Cream of Scotland
• 36:51
  Yard line. Wonderfully macabre.
• 36:54
  She Malinby. A deeply layered, magnificent
• 36:56
  piece of work that gets better with repeated viewings.
• 36:59
  A wonderful guest cast, all set in that wonderfully
• 37:02
  claustrophobic house. David Gillespie Pratt says,
• 37:05
  looks great and very well made. I'm not sure a story should
• 37:08
  require more than one viewing in order to make sense, but when it
• 37:12
  clicks into place, it's a mature story and again, gives the
• 37:15
  companion a meatier role than we've had in years.
• 37:18
  John Arnold says a story for the video age where the writer knows
• 37:22
  that people will rewatch it, completely opposing to the last
• 37:25
  comment here, and can throw in all sorts of Easter eggs and
• 37:28
  illusions. The themes of change and
• 37:30
  evolution are a direct reaction to Victorian values trumpeted by
• 37:34
  the government of the day. Michael Storm says highlight of
• 37:37
  the season, rich dialogue, a great collection of grotesque
• 37:40
  guest characters, plenty of black humour and a fantastic
• 37:43
  setting. It's telling that whilst Pat is
• 37:45
  Platt is drawing from Hinchcliffe and Holmes, he isn't
• 37:48
  looking at Universal Hammer horror to tell the story.
• 37:51
  Instead, he's drawing on more intellectual works, such as
• 37:54
  George Bernard Shaw's Pygmalion and JB Priest is benighted to
• 37:58
  tell his story. I'll hold on to your hats,
• 38:02
  everybody. Scary Mary's in the house,
• 38:04
  Fraser Gregory. I've seen this one over half a
• 38:07
  dozen Times Now and I still don't have that first fucking
• 38:10
  clue what's going on. This is not a criticism.
• 38:13
  Not everything should be spoon fed to you, and great TV often
• 38:16
  leads you to make up your own mind about stuff.
• 38:19
  It's relentlessly atmospheric, looks absolutely stunning, and
• 38:22
  is wickedly funny in a dark way. Keep it.
• 38:25
  Jason Thompson says I would bin it.
• 38:27
  I'm afraid it's a mature script, but with too much cut out to fit
• 38:31
  the format. Interestingly, it might have
• 38:33
  benefited from the greater flexibility seen in the prior
• 38:36
  decades, when the 25 minute episode could be anything up to
• 38:39
  27 1/2 minutes long. James Lark, The sharpest,
• 38:43
  wittiest dialogue who has ever had.
• 38:45
  Definitely plotted. Not nearly as complicated as its
• 38:47
  reputation, but with new layers on every rewatch.
• 38:51
  The classiest score since Bergen's contributions.
• 38:54
  And what a cast. An astonished Good grief.
• 38:57
  What a tongue, sister. An astonishing assemblish of a
• 39:01
  list talent. All shut up, you all delivering
• 39:04
  impeccable performances which McCoy and Aldred rise to match.
• 39:10
  Yeah, you're agreeing with that, Joe Darren lit, Randall says.
• 39:13
  Breaks the Terran sticks rule of making sci-fi accessible to a
• 39:16
  mainstream audience. I love the production, but the
• 39:19
  story doesn't really work for me.
• 39:21
  Couple of negative comments. Dave Rennie fantastic, but so
• 39:25
  needs a fourth episode. It's so rich though that on
• 39:27
  every watch you get something new from it.
• 39:29
  The atmosphere, the characters, the music all top tier and the
• 39:33
  scene between the Doctor Rene's about burnt toast is superb.
• 39:36
  Paul Quinn says the greatest 2 scripts of the 80s and probably
• 39:39
  of all time. Funny, scary, literate,
• 39:42
  brilliant cast, top direction, phenomenal sets and costumes.
• 39:46
  Perhaps Mccoy's and Aldridge's best performance.
• 39:49
  Joelo Allen maybe the best looking classic story ever.
• 39:52
  I knew it's reputation of being incomprehensible and when I
• 39:55
  first watch it, it has it's fair share of what the fuck moments.
• 39:59
  But after watching the making of I got a better idea of what
• 40:02
  they're going for. You shouldn't really need to
• 40:04
  have to watch your making of to understand the story.
• 40:07
  Sorry. Gavin says this is the weakest
• 40:10
  for me. It looks great and very
• 40:11
  atmospheric, but zero cents. Big orange, Michael's back.
• 40:15
  The omnibus edit had poor sound mixing, making it nearly
• 40:18
  impossible to hear the dialogue over the brilliant music.
• 40:21
  I liked it enough to keep going back and eventually it all
• 40:23
  clicked. Target novel helped a lot here.
• 40:26
  John Davis says atmospheric spooky Great Ace development.
• 40:31
  Nearly there, folks. Martin Matin.
• 40:32
  Perfect. A gorgeous beguiling thing with
• 40:35
  so much passion. And finally, we've heard from
• 40:38
  the academic dialect. I'm not going to do a dialect
• 40:40
  voice, even though he sent it all in in capitals, he says.
• 40:44
  Even with the benefit of superior Dalek intelligence, the
• 40:48
  events of Ghost Light are uninterpretable.
• 40:53
  Nick Briggs, you can get out get.
• 40:56
  Out. Yeah, Pension off.
• 40:58
  That's it. There we go.
• 41:00
  Luke Malloy, are you going to agree with Daniel's rousing
• 41:05
  support for Ghost Light? Right.
• 41:08
  So people that say Ghost Light doesn't make any sense.
• 41:12
  Oh, that it's a bit nonsensical. I I agree to an extent.
• 41:18
  But I also don't think it has to make sense.
• 41:21
  I mean, I think it actually does make sense and I think it's
• 41:24
  basically all the and even if there's some stuff that's not
• 41:29
  explained or needs to be inferred, I mean, doesn't that
• 41:32
  just add to the mystery? I think the worst thing you
• 41:34
  could do to this episode to this story is out the 4th episode.
• 41:37
  That sort of it's just stretches it out and makes it all like
• 41:43
  very explained it. There's a beauty and an
• 41:47
  atmosphere in this really mysterious house and I think the
• 41:52
  people that wouldn't be bothered about the story anyway, the
• 41:56
  casual viewer who probably half watches Doctor Who anyway, it
• 42:01
  doesn't doesn't understand the story week after week after
• 42:03
  week. And the people that do like this
• 42:07
  like I do, would go out and source the answers.
• 42:11
  Because I remember being a 10 year old and I messaged someone
• 42:15
  on YouTube at the time because they had a YouTube account
• 42:18
  asking them to explain the plot of Ghost Likes to me because it
• 42:21
  was it was a three episodes that I really enjoyed, but I didn't
• 42:24
  really know what was going on. And that for me makes it
• 42:28
  something that I think is a really good, it's a really good
• 42:32
  Doctor Who experience like you can.
• 42:36
  There's so much to enjoy in this, even if you don't know
• 42:39
  what is going on. Performances, feelings,
• 42:43
  atmosphere, all of that. And yes, I mean, we've slightly
• 42:46
  touched on the dialogue, but this has got the best dialogue
• 42:49
  of the season for me. The my favorite line is also the
• 42:54
  bus station line, and it applies to other transport stations like
• 42:58
  airports and everywhere else. Supermarkets it's it's.
• 43:03
  It's a really beautiful line, as is the the cream of Scotland
• 43:08
  Yard, as is the house will remember, just the ghost of an
• 43:12
  evil memory lingering a dark secret after the candle is out.
• 43:15
  I mean, that is gorgeous. And if we're going to really
• 43:18
  stretch that, I'm counting Gwendolyn's.
• 43:21
  That's the way to the zoo as well, Which is an absolute bop.
• 43:24
  Come on, I forgot. About that one, yeah.
• 43:27
  I think this is really intelligent.
• 43:31
  I love Light. He's basically a Doctor Who
• 43:33
  found just trying to catalogue things and and people keep
• 43:36
  bringing out new things. It's.
• 43:38
  We've all been He is a Doctor Who fan, isn't he?
• 43:41
  We've we've all been there. We've we've like coordinated
• 43:45
  where each Doctor fits into all the adventures and then next
• 43:49
  week a big finish comes out and you've got to slot them in.
• 43:52
  And it just. It just light.
• 43:54
  It's it's a doctor. Is.
• 43:56
  Everyone on Gallifrey Base, isn't it?
• 43:58
  Where does it fit? Where does it fit?
• 44:01
  It just trying to catalogue it. Yeah.
• 44:03
  That is I I really like that Doctor Renee so I won't touch on
• 44:08
  too much but there this there is a lovely theme of evolution.
• 44:11
  I say all the plot details don't actually make sense.
• 44:13
  There's a lovely theme of evolution throughout.
• 44:16
  My only criticism of it is I've never liked controls performance
• 44:20
  in this and I I sort of understand what she's going for.
• 44:25
  But she's not let's be honest. She's know Emma Stone and poor
• 44:28
  things is she? And it's a sort of similar ish
• 44:30
  role of that sort of child like learning, evolving thing.
• 44:36
  I mean, I'm not expecting an Oscar performance in my 1980s
• 44:40
  Doctor Who. But yeah, it's only it's the one
• 44:43
  bit the story has always felt bit a bit just a bit icky with.
• 44:48
  But no, this is definitely a key.
• 44:50
  Definitely a key, this one. Fabulous joke.
• 44:54
  I think the best line in this is scratch the Victorian veneer and
• 44:58
  something nasty will come crawling out.
• 45:00
  Because that's what this story is, isn't it?
• 45:02
  And it's delivered by Sophie Aldrin of all people.
• 45:05
  So happy days. Of course this is staying.
• 45:08
  I think this is possibly the best Doctor Who story.
• 45:13
  It's certainly in my top 10 ghost slide.
• 45:15
  It is superb, this story, and I would like to start with my
• 45:20
  first reason for keeping it, the best Sylvester McCoy performance
• 45:24
  of the entire exactly what you said, Daniel.
• 45:27
  He's got it. He's finally got it.
• 45:28
  And this was the last Doctor Who story to be recorded.
• 45:32
  So just at the point where he's a truly sublime performance with
• 45:35
  very few mistakes, they go no enough.
• 45:38
  We've had enough for him now. He's great.
• 45:41
  He's so good at doing that sort of dark, purring menace, isn't
• 45:45
  he? They they just stop making him
• 45:47
  shout. Or the, you know, go watch
• 45:49
  Battlefield. He's screaming his head off for
• 45:50
  out and it's fucking agonising to watch.
• 45:52
  Whereas in this it's all down and he's the scariest thing in
• 45:56
  it, going around the house. I think he's wonderful.
• 45:59
  Yeah, finally, that dark jacket's paying off, you know,
• 46:02
  And it's reflected in his performance, the weird, sick,
• 46:05
  discomforting imagery in story as well.
• 46:08
  I love that the whole thing about the house coming alive and
• 46:12
  all the bugs coming out the drawers, because I read a lot of
• 46:14
  bugs. So that creeps me out.
• 46:17
  Red versus the monkey in the case, which is one of the
• 46:19
  sickest images you're ever going to see.
• 46:21
  The bit where he's there with a banana going, you're no better
• 46:24
  than animals. It's just it's really funny and
• 46:28
  it's really disturbing at the same time the police light and
• 46:34
  the siren on ice or that bit like you said that it's like
• 46:36
  something out of Twin Peaks. It really is.
• 46:40
  I said about right about light holding the Maze arm up as well.
• 46:44
  Red was in the asylum as well, with the light from the box
• 46:48
  coming out, and he's with. A strange jacket, yeah.
• 46:50
  But at the same time, the Lightning's go in.
• 46:52
  So there's there's like an assault of light.
• 46:55
  Creepy as fuck. Yeah, so, so brilliantly
• 46:59
  directed by Alan Waring. When I said there was two
• 47:02
  directions this year that were I'll chosen.
• 47:05
  Alan Waring is not one of those two.
• 47:07
  I think he does a brilliant job with both stories.
• 47:11
  And yeah, the script alone. The most intelligent, literate,
• 47:15
  labyrinthine scripts I think ever written for Doctor Who.
• 47:19
  No wonder Mark Platt went on to write new adventures and more
• 47:22
  big finishes than you can shake a stick at.
• 47:25
  I do think, sort of going forwards, his work does veer
• 47:29
  from being sublime to being very boring.
• 47:33
  He does manage to bat between the two, but there's usually
• 47:36
  something. There's like a germ of
• 47:38
  interesting ideas in there. So I think his Big Finish work
• 47:41
  can can be a bit boring, but if you imagine them ideas on a
• 47:46
  screen like the world is always the I just don't think audio is
• 47:50
  the right place for. It I did struggle to understand
• 47:57
  this when I was younger. I'm still not entirely sure I
• 48:00
  understand all of it. But Andrew Cartmell, very
• 48:02
  succinctly does give all the explanations in the special
• 48:06
  features, and I do think that is a mistake.
• 48:10
  That Luke, you had to go and seek the answers for this.
• 48:13
  I had to seek the answers. No, no, I I enjoyed it.
• 48:16
  Scene for scene. I liked the atmosphere, the
• 48:17
  acting, the music, all of that. But I kind of think it should
• 48:21
  make sense. But it is what keeps me coming
• 48:24
  back because I I don't think it's one of those that doesn't
• 48:27
  make sense because it's not, it's not like tried.
• 48:31
  I think it is all in the, you've just got to watch it over and
• 48:36
  over again. But I say that that Andrew
• 48:38
  Cartwell thing is very much like Chris Chip will explain the
• 48:40
  flux. Now I think about this.
• 48:43
  I was going to say no one Do you love Steven Muppet stuff so
• 48:46
  much? You know, always looking for
• 48:48
  answers that aren't there. It's just brilliant.
• 48:53
  It's a it's a brilliant production, like like literally
• 48:56
  you can just tick every single box.
• 48:58
  The acting is fantastic. Sophie Aldridge actually comes
• 49:02
  up to the guest cast I think in this one and she delivers a
• 49:06
  brilliant performance. All those guest actors that you
• 49:08
  mentioned, Daniel, send it through.
• 49:10
  It is just amazingly good. Ghost Light The best of the year
• 49:13
  for me by mile. OK, so it's for four.
• 49:17
  So I am also definitely putting this one through.
• 49:21
  Joe on your recent hamster with James Lark.
• 49:23
  Daniel, you just quoted that. I'm quoting it as well for, but
• 49:25
  for a different reason. You know what?
• 49:27
  I didn't do Ghost like with James Lark, right?
• 49:30
  Oh no. You did.
• 49:30
  No, you did Dutch. And bam.
• 49:32
  Yeah. Oh, OK, that's good.
• 49:33
  So sorry, I did this with Paul Quinn.
• 49:35
  Yeah, no, no, no. When you did Delta, James said
• 49:38
  that the cast in Delta was probably the best ensemble cast
• 49:41
  of this era. And whilst he's kind of not
• 49:45
  wrong, there are actually throughout the McCoy era, there
• 49:49
  are a number of stories. They've got superlative guest
• 49:52
  cast in terms of characters and actors.
• 49:54
  And I think this is another one. I don't don't know how you can't
• 49:58
  put this up as the best ensemble.
• 50:00
  And in some ways, going back to what I was saying earlier about,
• 50:02
  you know, this is the period of the cancellation crisis still
• 50:05
  hovering over the show. The show was so ridiculed at
• 50:08
  this point and thought of as a total joke by the BBC.
• 50:12
  The papers treated it like a joke.
• 50:14
  The BBC treated it like a joke. It was just it was doing amazing
• 50:18
  work, but it was treated with no seriousness whatsoever.
• 50:22
  But who do we get in this one three-part Doctor Who story?
• 50:26
  We've got Sylvia Sims, who was known as the grand arm of
• 50:28
  British cinema, a hugely respected doyenne of the cinema.
• 50:34
  You've got Ian Hogg, Daniel Uri. He was playing Rockcliffe at the
• 50:37
  time, which for those who weren't around at the time, it
• 50:39
  was kind of the line of duty of its day.
• 50:41
  He did Rock Cliffs babies, and then they did Rock cliffs folly.
• 50:43
  He was the lead in that. So he's a really well known
• 50:46
  actor, he. Was also the main villain in the
• 50:48
  Colin Baker audio, The Sandman for Big Finish.
• 50:51
  But we couldn't think that we could have figured it was him,
• 50:53
  because they put such a terrible filter over his voice, no one
• 50:56
  could hear it was him. That's true.
• 50:59
  You got Frank Windsor, who was known to most of the BBC
• 51:02
  audience for Z Cars. You got Sharon Dews.
• 51:04
  She just done three years, I think, of Big Deal, which was
• 51:07
  again, a massive BBC show. John Hallam as Lied.
• 51:10
  I mean, he'd just done a whole year on EastEnders as a major
• 51:14
  character. He was totally different
• 51:15
  character as well, totally different.
• 51:17
  But I mean, all these people are so well known to the BBC
• 51:20
  audience. Then he got Michael Cochran and
• 51:22
  John Nettleton. Probably names that the audience
• 51:24
  wouldn't be as familiar with, but they absolutely would
• 51:26
  recognise their voices on their faces.
• 51:29
  So you just think of that. Caste is a massive cast in 1989
• 51:33
  to get round to do Ghost Light. Actually as well, she'd been the
• 51:39
  lead in the the recent version, well, at the time, the recent
• 51:42
  version of The Diary of Anne Frank.
• 51:44
  And I think she'd also been in a version of Northanger,
• 51:48
  Northanger Abbey as well. So she was sort of like, seen as
• 51:51
  a rising star? Exactly.
• 51:53
  Yeah. You've.
• 51:53
  Got you've got. JNT is one of his biggest
• 51:56
  strengths, isn't it? I seriously don't think he puts
• 51:59
  a foot wrong when it comes to casting.
• 52:01
  And you can shout Beryl Reed at me all you like.
• 52:03
  She's glorious. I, you know, he knew people, or
• 52:07
  he knew people who knew people and he could just draw in just
• 52:10
  us. I'm not going to say
• 52:12
  astonishingly Malloy. Amazing talent.
• 52:15
  But these are so high calibre, these actors, and they're all
• 52:18
  playing it completely straight, taking it seriously.
• 52:22
  They're not sending it up at all.
• 52:24
  I just, you know, it, it staggers me.
• 52:26
  Looking back now, thinking that we were getting cast of this
• 52:29
  calibre, it's amazing. So that's my first reason as the
• 52:31
  cast. Second and third reason I wanted
• 52:34
  to pick two particular scenes. Daniel, you've stolen my light a
• 52:37
  little bit on one of them because it is fine, no problem.
• 52:39
  Light. Well done.
• 52:41
  Very. Good.
• 52:42
  Yeah, the Doctor and Ace confrontation 'cause it is such
• 52:46
  an amazingly good scene. Obviously the Doctor trusts Ace,
• 52:52
  so you know, he knows that when she visited Gabriel Chase back
• 52:56
  when she was a 13 year old, she had sent something evil and
• 52:59
  something dangerous there. So he wants to go back and
• 53:02
  investigate that, what that is. But at the same time, he's also,
• 53:05
  as he says quite explicitly in the opening, he's putting Ace
• 53:08
  through an initiation and that's what he's here to do.
• 53:11
  A brutal form of therapy. Oh, it really is, Absolutely.
• 53:15
  We thought that the Capaldi Clara stuff was sort of toxic,
• 53:18
  but yeah, look, this is even worse.
• 53:20
  It's sort of all nose touching and cutie booty.
• 53:23
  But actually, he's putting her through personal hell.
• 53:26
  Beauty Wooty. That's very muffet.
• 53:30
  Isn't it? Horribly Muffet, yeah.
• 53:32
  It's my bestie, that's why. And Sylvester gets some great
• 53:36
  moments here. And in that scene particularly,
• 53:38
  you know, we talk about poet with moments of charm.
• 53:40
  That talent Sticks used to write for him.
• 53:42
  But I think what Kant Mel gives him are speeches that really
• 53:45
  kind of underline his morality and his mystery.
• 53:49
  So it goes beyond just being a kind of twee moments of charm in
• 53:52
  something with much more depth. And we've talked about the burnt
• 53:55
  toast and the bus stations, but they then talks about unrequited
• 53:58
  love and tyranny and cruelty, and those are the terrors of
• 54:01
  this Doctor's universe. I think he's just beautiful.
• 54:04
  And I love the fact that once he's told her those things, Ace,
• 54:08
  who was absolutely steaming, furious with him before, she's
• 54:11
  then totally calmed down and she talks to him, all her anger has
• 54:14
  gone. She's heard him.
• 54:15
  They're that close to this point that she's, you know, she's
• 54:18
  blown out all her anger at him and she's completely with him
• 54:21
  again, which is great. She then tells him about the
• 54:25
  night that she investigates the house, which talks about the
• 54:28
  white kids fire bombing her friend's flat.
• 54:31
  Now that's. The one bit where our wins.
• 54:34
  Well, yeah. But Joe, what I'll say is you're
• 54:36
  wincing now through a 2024 lens. I'll.
• 54:39
  Go back to wincing then. I don't think so.
• 54:42
  I think it was. I don't think so at all.
• 54:44
  I think that was quite for Doctor Who.
• 54:46
  Certainly that was quite strong comment.
• 54:48
  If you think where we were at that time, you know, we were at
• 54:51
  the tail end of Thatcher. Britain is very divided and very
• 54:56
  divisive. So Doctor Who is addressing
• 54:58
  intolerance in a way that our government at the time certainly
• 55:02
  wasn't. And I think yes, look at it now
• 55:05
  in modern day Parliament and it is a bit, yeah, it's a bit on
• 55:08
  the nose but then I think it was quite strong and I love the fact
• 55:12
  the Doctor Who's tackling intolerance in such a direct.
• 55:14
  Way anus on the noses. Now look here you yellow slant
• 55:19
  eyed. But we get in battlefield.
• 55:21
  Let's. Let's get back to that.
• 55:22
  One. All right.
• 55:22
  OK. And then my final scene I want
• 55:25
  to mention as well as the dinner party, which is such an unusual
• 55:28
  scene in Doctor Who. So it's kind of halfway in
• 55:32
  episode 3. And up to then Episode 3 has
• 55:34
  been quite frantic. So we are frenetic.
• 55:37
  We've had Gwendolyn and the mage chasing Ace round.
• 55:40
  We've had that scene that you guys have already alluded to
• 55:42
  with Ace in a nightmare world. That sound has been quite high.
• 55:45
  It's been very, very busy, quite cacophonous.
• 55:48
  And then suddenly everything comes down quietly and we have a
• 55:51
  dinner party. When do you get that?
• 55:53
  As the do doom of the Doctor? It's almost like an Agatha
• 55:56
  Christie everyone comes together around the dinner table and
• 55:59
  you've got the Doctor and all his protagonists.
• 56:01
  And this is when we see McCoy, I think, written at his best as
• 56:05
  the ultimate chess player because he's put everything into
• 56:08
  place, so everything works. Around that dinner table, he
• 56:11
  tells Mrs. Pritchard that really she is.
• 56:14
  He tells her who she is and she realises and rushes off to see
• 56:17
  Gwendoline. He puts Red first into the
• 56:21
  position. The Red first chooses to go off
• 56:24
  with control to Buckingham Palace rather than taking Josiah
• 56:28
  Smith, who wants to obviously assassinate Queen Victoria.
• 56:31
  So he ruins that plan and then finally he sets the trap for
• 56:34
  Light, which he then sets around him.
• 56:36
  So it's brilliant piece of you know, I'm coming back to the
• 56:39
  chess again from from Fenrick, but all those pieces are in
• 56:42
  place and they all manoeuvre in such a seamless way and it's a
• 56:47
  brilliant piece of writing played.
• 56:49
  Brilliant. How can this not go through?
• 56:52
  Although can I just say one last line that nobody's mentioned,
• 56:55
  which is such a Gray line control, quintessence of
• 56:59
  wickedness, corruption, and Cardi.
• 57:02
  I mean, the dialogue just trips out of your mouth and it and
• 57:04
  this, it's gorgeous and. There was 11 moment I want to
• 57:08
  pick up when Daniel, you were talking before about Gwendolyn
• 57:10
  and Mrs. Pritchard turning to stone.
• 57:13
  The bit that really gets me in that as well, because you were
• 57:15
  talking about the kind of implicit horror when Mrs.
• 57:19
  Pritchard realizes that actually Gwendolyn had already killed the
• 57:22
  father and not you'll kind of take the impression that was
• 57:25
  done before she was under Josiah's influence.
• 57:28
  So because she sounds quite painful, she said.
• 57:30
  But you sent him to Java, and again, that's such implied
• 57:34
  horror. She'd killed her own father long
• 57:36
  before Josiah came on the on the scene.
• 57:39
  So yeah, it's it's wonderful. There's so much to dig.
• 57:42
  Dig into it. Every time you watch it, there's
• 57:44
  new things, so I think we like it.
• 57:48
  I think Ghost Light is going through, so Luke Malloy, top
• 57:52
  that, Pick your. Story.
• 57:56
  Right. Well, I mean, I I I was having a
• 57:59
  good day. So I came, I came here to
• 58:03
  champion a story and and now it's been championed by somebody
• 58:08
  else. Sorry, sorry, no.
• 58:10
  No, no, no. So it's only too well and good.
• 58:14
  I've got one to kick down to get rid of, to throw in the trash.
• 58:19
  What? Yes, go on, bring it on.
• 58:22
  So the one I would like to throw in the bin because it's the
• 58:26
  worst of the season is survival. Contentious.
• 58:33
  So we'll start with, We'll start with, OK, we'll say.
• 58:39
  Cheapness will be my first. As as much as there's a style
• 58:45
  and there's an atmosphere to it, which is largely helped by the
• 58:48
  music, it does feel cheaper than the other three in the season.
• 58:52
  So I'm not just having a pop shot at Doctor Who.
• 58:55
  It does. I think it feels cheaper than
• 58:57
  the other three, yes, including Battlefield.
• 59:01
  The cheer people don't help. I have a soft like soft.
• 59:05
  I have a soft spot for them, but I think they're not the best
• 59:10
  creation on screen. And as a side point, why?
• 59:14
  Why cheetahs, the the fastest animals on the planet ride
• 59:17
  horses. I don't, I don't know.
• 59:20
  But it's not just, it's. Not just about.
• 59:24
  Why do monkeys ride horses and plant to the apes?
• 59:27
  It's true. It's because it looks cool.
• 59:28
  Everything. There you go.
• 59:32
  Everything gets a pass, but it looks cool.
• 59:33
  It's like the force fields and the star piece.
• 59:35
  But anyway, the animatronic cat is is not great.
• 59:40
  As much as I love the sort of fake backgrounds that we do in
• 59:43
  classic Dog Two, I think I'd seen it a bit too much by this
• 59:46
  point. So the Red Sky One just looks a
• 59:49
  bit cheap, no? It's not a patch on that mine
• 59:51
  one we watch, is it? No, which is.
• 59:53
  Fabulous planet in the sky. And even the fire looks, you
• 59:58
  know, just a bit, just a bit cheap.
• 1:00:00
  So I think it's where's like Fenrick has these beautiful
• 1:00:03
  production values and Ghost Light is a gorgeous production
• 1:00:07
  and battlefield like. You can't don't want to spoil
• 1:00:11
  too much really do you? But like the Ancient One looks
• 1:00:14
  is a great creation. Sorry not the Ancient 1.
• 1:00:16
  The Destroyer is a great creation and I think it
• 1:00:20
  generally it looks it looks good on the whole, whereas this can
• 1:00:27
  look cheap. I was watching it in 3rd year at
• 1:00:28
  uni in the the common room and someone came over and saw me
• 1:00:35
  watch again at point where a cheetah was riding a horse and
• 1:00:39
  with and I said oh I'm just watching classic Doctor and they
• 1:00:41
  were like, God, that must be really old.
• 1:00:43
  And I'm thinking in my head this is, this is actually the last
• 1:00:46
  classic story. You know, you're right though.
• 1:00:49
  Because like with the cheats of people, it's one of those rare
• 1:00:52
  Doctor Who monsters or races where if you go close up, it
• 1:00:56
  looks all right. You got the contacts and the
• 1:00:58
  teeth, and yet you come out of it and there's fucking Puss in
• 1:01:02
  Boots. It's really embarrassing.
• 1:01:06
  My wife said to me, have they borrowed the costumes from cats?
• 1:01:11
  That's actually, she said have they nicked the costumes of
• 1:01:13
  cats? That's how she she she she put
• 1:01:15
  it. Here, imagine if those cheaters
• 1:01:17
  all started singing Jellicle cats.
• 1:01:18
  That would be great. The second point would be the
• 1:01:25
  doctor just plods around. I mean he spends half the story
• 1:01:28
  trying and failing to law in a cat then?
• 1:01:34
  Then he. Come on, Pussycat.
• 1:01:35
  Meow, meow, meow. Then he fails to stop Ace being
• 1:01:42
  loaded in by like the power of the planet and then when he
• 1:01:45
  actually gets to act and do something, he just gets his ass
• 1:01:48
  whooped in a motorbike crash. And and I do like, I do like a
• 1:01:54
  grand point out there, I do love Ailey.
• 1:01:56
  Just laughing at him, at a in a conveniently placed skip.
• 1:02:01
  But it's it's it's Burnley. It's Burnley, the Doctor's
• 1:02:05
  finest man. His fucking horse is sticking in
• 1:02:07
  the air. Yeah.
• 1:02:11
  I think you know to give a positive because I do actually
• 1:02:15
  like this story I I just compared to the others it is
• 1:02:18
  definitely the one I'd kick out and and yeah I think Ace, while
• 1:02:24
  Ace has a sort of things to do here.
• 1:02:28
  I mean the doctor literally just plods along and and and just,
• 1:02:32
  yeah, just walks around. Although I do like when he put
• 1:02:35
  fingers. That guy you.
• 1:02:40
  Must have a different version. Because I've never.
• 1:02:43
  Wondered Patterson's in a bad mood for.
• 1:02:45
  A row that's the extended version.
• 1:02:48
  Yeah, I've had the Ian Levine edit.
• 1:02:52
  That's what he was doing on that Common.
• 1:02:54
  Yeah, that makes sense now. And the third one, this one
• 1:02:57
  that's not didn't annoy me initially but has annoyed me
• 1:03:00
  since. And it's sort of a case of fans
• 1:03:02
  getting in my head, but I think it's it's actually a
• 1:03:05
  straightforward story that appears as clever, like a lot of
• 1:03:09
  credit is given for this layered story.
• 1:03:12
  And I think the core idea of a planet that enhances your
• 1:03:16
  animalistic side and you succumb to it is really good.
• 1:03:19
  But maybe I'm stupid, but I do not see this sort of lesbian
• 1:03:23
  subtext between Ace and Cara whatsoever.
• 1:03:26
  The only thing I see is that Ace cries a little bit more than
• 1:03:30
  you'd expect when a cheetah dies.
• 1:03:33
  I I don't see it and I don't think the rest of it is that
• 1:03:37
  layered. I think it's just quite vague.
• 1:03:39
  Whereas I think Fenrick is a really clever plot and Ghost
• 1:03:43
  Light is all meticulously well hidden and mysterious.
• 1:03:48
  This it is not bad, but it's just a step down from them
• 1:03:53
  really clever, complex stories we've been getting in the rest
• 1:03:57
  of the season. But I feel like maybe not maybe
• 1:04:01
  like that, but I think it's trying to do a sort of ghost
• 1:04:05
  site Curse of Fenwick story in its seriousness and subtext, but
• 1:04:11
  isn't as good. Whereas Battlefield's not trying
• 1:04:13
  to do that. So yeah, if there's what?
• 1:04:17
  So if there's one I had to kick out of the season, it would it
• 1:04:20
  would hands down be this. I mean, I did have to have.
• 1:04:23
  When Ronan Munro was talking about aces, sexuality and the
• 1:04:26
  special features, I was going what what?
• 1:04:29
  I watched it again going have I missed something?
• 1:04:31
  So I didn't get it either, if I'm honest.
• 1:04:33
  Yeah, but you, Joe, you didn't gather Tommy in The Idiot
• 1:04:36
  Slanton was gay. I've still, I still question
• 1:04:39
  where he is, you know, I mean, he's about 12:00, so I don't
• 1:04:44
  want to know whoever he is or not.
• 1:04:47
  Should we go to our comments? Mikey Smith says Survival is
• 1:04:50
  insane, coming just a few years after time in the Rani.
• 1:04:53
  Now we're buying dog food in an off license and flirting with
• 1:04:57
  lesbianism by a lake. It's not like the same show, and
• 1:05:00
  I bloody love it, That last speech.
• 1:05:03
  Excuse me, Kay, Omar is the ultimate lesbian in time in the
• 1:05:07
  Rani. I mean, she is all woman.
• 1:05:10
  John Arnold. This is Gray, a story about a
• 1:05:12
  young girl and how the TARDIS is an escape from the drudgery of
• 1:05:15
  urban life to a universe of exciting possibilities.
• 1:05:19
  The show going out as it would come back in 2005.
• 1:05:23
  And we have an essay from Fraser Gregory of.
• 1:05:25
  Course. Of course, probably not the way
• 1:05:28
  anyone would have chosen to end the classic run, but still a
• 1:05:31
  winner. Rona Munro's high concept tale
• 1:05:33
  finds its feet or paws when Anthony Amy is finally allowed
• 1:05:37
  to play his master as he'd like without the camp cackling and
• 1:05:40
  excels as the final part of the ace trilogy.
• 1:05:43
  Sophie Aldred has one of her best days in The office as we
• 1:05:46
  look back at some proper character development and weep
• 1:05:49
  that the show ended here. That final, that line.
• 1:05:52
  Keep it. I'm not so Jason Thompson likes
• 1:05:55
  this season too much, he says. Can I bin it?
• 1:05:59
  It's a decent enough ending. Ailey is great as the Master,
• 1:06:02
  but Hale and Pace is the one example of JNT's casting choices
• 1:06:06
  that don't really work. The motorcycle crash is absurd
• 1:06:10
  and having the Doctor's arse in the air as he is head down in a
• 1:06:13
  pile of old sofas and bin bags is a poor follow up to a crash
• 1:06:17
  that was fatal for the other rider.
• 1:06:19
  I know even that's for the way he just sort of goes the lesson
• 1:06:25
  about the animatronic cat the better.
• 1:06:27
  Am I the only one who really doesn't like the final voice
• 1:06:29
  over? It's just too twee for my
• 1:06:31
  liking. And probably, yes, Jason, you
• 1:06:33
  are, James Lark says. A compelling urban setting and
• 1:06:37
  effective alien landscape, subtext and psychological
• 1:06:40
  complexity that's years ahead of it's time.
• 1:06:43
  A story with meaning and a master with motivation.
• 1:06:46
  Who knew Amy could be this good? And, as if Marquez had laid down
• 1:06:49
  a gauntlet? Incomes Dominic Lynn with a
• 1:06:52
  score as contemporary and grown up as the story it underpins.
• 1:06:55
  This is not just incredible Doctor Who, it's incredible TV.
• 1:06:59
  You know that guitar that, like, that's great, isn't it, Jim
• 1:07:07
  Allenby? Maybe because it's the final
• 1:07:08
  story of the era, but there's a very melancholy feel to the
• 1:07:11
  story. From the music to the empty
• 1:07:13
  streets to ace wandering looking for her friends, Ailey has never
• 1:07:17
  been better, and the series goes out on a very thoughtful high.
• 1:07:20
  Paul Smyce is the perfect end. Ace and the Doctor go out on a
• 1:07:23
  wonderful high. Dave Ready Survival isn't as
• 1:07:26
  good as it's regarded, but it still has a lot of great things.
• 1:07:29
  Amy toes it down and the modern day Peridot setting is inspired.
• 1:07:34
  Michael Storm says it's OK. It's probably the only story in
• 1:07:37
  the season that really works in the format.
• 1:07:39
  The cheats people make up isn't as bad as it's made out to be.
• 1:07:42
  We have a new series trope first here, though.
• 1:07:44
  No, not the contemporary urban setting, but our first really
• 1:07:48
  annoying child actor. My cat oh the.
• 1:07:54
  Bad cat, man, she. Belongs in, I'm not going to
• 1:07:57
  say. Emmerdale.
• 1:07:58
  She went on to Emmerdale. The Steven Moffat era.
• 1:08:02
  Paul Kirkley I love how the London teenager story of
• 1:08:06
  survival both echoes An Unearthly Child and foreshadows
• 1:08:08
  rose. It does even better that none of
• 1:08:11
  it is planned. It's just a delightful piece of
• 1:08:13
  cosmic symmetry. Jolie Welling says Survival has
• 1:08:16
  the Doctor Who character most like me, but he sucks.
• 1:08:20
  Paxson and I are both sergeants in the reserve components of our
• 1:08:23
  armies and we also both teach self defence.
• 1:08:25
  However, unlike the TA I've deployed overseas to war zones.
• 1:08:29
  I'm also much taller and not a prick.
• 1:08:33
  That's good to know. David Gillespie Pratt.
• 1:08:35
  I'm still bitter at missing the final episode on broadcast, but
• 1:08:38
  the mature storytelling continues and this is a story
• 1:08:41
  with a lot of layers. It also really captures the
• 1:08:43
  board. It does the board them of Sunday
• 1:08:46
  afternoons in the late 80s. That is perfect.
• 1:08:48
  Just ignore the mangy puppet cat.
• 1:08:51
  Paul Quinn says Aynley's best performance.
• 1:08:53
  A dangerously unhinged master infected by the wilderness and
• 1:08:57
  devolving as a result. Another doomed relationship for
• 1:09:01
  Ace, but this is the one that counts.
• 1:09:03
  It's sexy, sad and political. The final scene between McCoy
• 1:09:06
  and Aldridge is brilliant and heartbreaking that this was the
• 1:09:09
  end, but what a way to go. Political OK, Big Orange Michael
• 1:09:15
  Bittersweet as it's the final classic Serial.
• 1:09:17
  Amy is so good here, showing a range that he wasn't always
• 1:09:20
  allowed a solid finish to a great season.
• 1:09:23
  James H said would have won if not for the motorbike scene, the
• 1:09:27
  master on top form between Suave and Ferrell and the Doctor
• 1:09:30
  calling for people to let their humanity win.
• 1:09:34
  Tom Newsom. One of the strongest of the
• 1:09:35
  year, Completely fresh, modern but timeless.
• 1:09:38
  All these stories have real gravitas, where you really
• 1:09:41
  believe in dangerous ancient evils, but can still be funny
• 1:09:45
  with it. Now that's Doctor Who.
• 1:09:47
  David's series says love it. Sylvester has some complicated
• 1:09:50
  speeches only he can pull off. Don't think he does.
• 1:09:53
  I think Joe might disagree. John David, Don't move.
• 1:09:59
  Sorry. Awful and pointless.
• 1:10:00
  Terrible. Enter the series.
• 1:10:02
  John, David, not you. Very to the point.
• 1:10:06
  Paul Dunn says the single best Aimley performance the show is
• 1:10:09
  doing what RTD did all those years later.
• 1:10:12
  A travesty that wasn't another season.
• 1:10:15
  Gavin again Loved in eight. Loved it in 89.
• 1:10:17
  Always enjoy Aimley's Anthony Aimley's Master Bad Cat.
• 1:10:21
  Man, some of the chavs in track trackies are great.
• 1:10:25
  Oh, some of them are, though. Overall The music and effects,
• 1:10:29
  It's just as proud as the end of an era.
• 1:10:31
  And finally, Oscar, Groucho says, eerily prescient.
• 1:10:34
  With the cancellation, we end the show once more in
• 1:10:37
  contemporary London with the promise of new adventure, The.
• 1:10:40
  Fight We are about a path. Is this the most about comments
• 1:10:42
  we've ever we've? Had a lot.
• 1:10:44
  I know it's time. Like either half of them
• 1:10:46
  comments were just about how it was the last story.
• 1:10:50
  And with that, I think you would probably find that whatever the
• 1:10:55
  story had been, you would apply something to it that made it
• 1:10:58
  prescient or that made it symmetrical with the start of
• 1:11:02
  the end, because that's just what we naturally do.
• 1:11:04
  But there was also a lot of love for it.
• 1:11:06
  So. But there was some mixed ones
• 1:11:07
  there as well though. Wow.
• 1:11:11
  Mainly about the cats. Over to Daniel as as Luke
• 1:11:15
  convinced you of its. Ineptitude.
• 1:11:18
  I mean, look at me. Convince you of anything,
• 1:11:20
  wouldn't they? Oh, so it's just me?
• 1:11:29
  OK, plot wise, I think it's a bit thin.
• 1:11:34
  There's a lot of running around the houses in part one, there's
• 1:11:38
  a lot of running around the quarry in Part 2 and and the
• 1:11:42
  motorbike battle just doesn't work.
• 1:11:44
  And yeah, we get a nice big explosion, but it looks a bit
• 1:11:48
  rubbish, doesn't it really to see the Doctor arse up on a
• 1:11:51
  discarded sofa it but we do get that.
• 1:11:54
  Does that does give Anthony Amy the chance to do his master
• 1:11:57
  chuckle, which you know is is just a delight to hear.
• 1:12:01
  I mean it's a shame that they didn't do the Peri Vale, Peri
• 1:12:04
  Vale scenes in the rain because they would have made a better
• 1:12:06
  contrast between the hot weather of the Cheetah Planet and I
• 1:12:12
  Yeah, I agree. I agree that some of the
• 1:12:14
  backgrounds that the paint box effects aren't quite as good
• 1:12:18
  maybe they should have just left it as a because it there are
• 1:12:22
  some things where it does work but there are some things where
• 1:12:24
  it really doesn't and it does look very high.
• 1:12:27
  It does look like they've they've they've filmed abroad
• 1:12:30
  and that's possibly helped by Dominic Glynn's school, which
• 1:12:33
  is, as Joe said, it's brilliant and there's even a little bit of
• 1:12:37
  Spanish guitar at one point when I think it's a bit where the
• 1:12:40
  Doctor and Patterson are on the horse.
• 1:12:43
  And I think Dominic Glynn's very underrated as a as a musician
• 1:12:47
  for Doctor Who. Again, I'm not a big fan of his
• 1:12:51
  theme version for for the Trial of the Time Lord season, but I
• 1:12:55
  think his, I think his music for Dragon Fire and for this
• 1:13:01
  happiness. Patrol.
• 1:13:04
  No, as fact, no. In in some some parts, yeah.
• 1:13:08
  Actually it's quite good. Anthony Ainley calm, sinister
• 1:13:14
  everything. He wasn't allowed to be before
• 1:13:16
  he was you know implied to you know had to camp it up all the
• 1:13:20
  time. I think Julian Holloway and
• 1:13:22
  there was a comment about the the that you know somebody said
• 1:13:27
  about Patterson that he's sort of he's a drill Sergeant like
• 1:13:30
  him, but he isn't. Yeah.
• 1:13:31
  I'm not going to use the word he used.
• 1:13:33
  He's quite an exceptional character in that he's
• 1:13:35
  excessively, he's aggressive, he's arrogant, but then in the
• 1:13:39
  heat of the moment he he bottles it and panics and he has to rely
• 1:13:43
  on the doctor to rescue him. And I've forgotten that he says
• 1:13:46
  you don't give a toss, do you? I'm like, oh, hang on, that's,
• 1:13:50
  they managed to get away with that.
• 1:13:52
  I think it's the only homophobic reference in Doctor Who as well.
• 1:13:54
  When the fellow's holding his hand at the end and he goes
• 1:13:57
  here, what's your game? What's your game?
• 1:13:58
  Yeah, Yeah. I mean, he's saying exactly the
• 1:14:03
  same thing that Ian Chesterton was saying in The Daleks to the
• 1:14:06
  Thales. And it just goes to show how in
• 1:14:09
  that 26 years, we are a world away from that era.
• 1:14:13
  I mean, in 26, in those 26 years, we had the Cold War, we
• 1:14:16
  had Vietnam, we had the hippies, we had Thatcher.
• 1:14:20
  And historically this has been broadcast just as we've seen the
• 1:14:23
  Berlin Wall come down, which sort of signified the beginning
• 1:14:27
  of a new beginning of a cultural and political revolution in
• 1:14:29
  Eastern Europe. I mean, I think, I think as you
• 1:14:32
  said, Rod, you said Britain at the time we had it was
• 1:14:35
  Thatcher's Britain. It was divisive, you had
• 1:14:38
  horrible, horrible press and we still do.
• 1:14:42
  But it just showed how the how not only had the Doctor Who has
• 1:14:47
  changed along with this, it's changed far more than people
• 1:14:50
  gave it credit for. It was still seen, as she said,
• 1:14:52
  as the silly little kids sci-fi show.
• 1:14:55
  But this is really quite grown up in some parts, Yeah.
• 1:14:59
  I think the cheetah costumes aren't bad.
• 1:15:01
  They're not. It's interesting, as you said,
• 1:15:02
  Joe, They look so much better close up.
• 1:15:06
  I didn't think the killing was that bad.
• 1:15:08
  But then my wife saw it in Part 2 and she said that's an
• 1:15:11
  interesting catch. You can.
• 1:15:13
  Hear the hydraulics. And like, yeah, and like, yeah,
• 1:15:19
  again, the violence as well. I'd forgotten about the bit
• 1:15:21
  where Mitch stabs the cheetah with the tooth, and I don't
• 1:15:25
  think you'd be able to get away with that now.
• 1:15:28
  But then that is also evidence to show that it's not the kids
• 1:15:31
  show that some people think it is as well.
• 1:15:34
  And the violence as well. There's that implicit violence,
• 1:15:38
  Ace discovering that the dead body of the guy who'd been
• 1:15:41
  washing his car at the beginning of the episode and the cats are.
• 1:15:43
  It's not, you can't quite see it, but you can imagine that
• 1:15:47
  those cats are feeding on that dead body, so it's just visible
• 1:15:50
  enough without it being too gory.
• 1:15:52
  Then in Part 3 the most the motorbike shop, the phones off
• 1:15:55
  the hook swinging and the T is dripping.
• 1:15:58
  So instead of blood, it's tea dripping, but it's obvious that
• 1:16:00
  whoever was in that shop is a goner.
• 1:16:03
  That's very well done, but I just don't think I yeah, I'm, I
• 1:16:07
  don't want to vote it out, but I've out all of the four
• 1:16:11
  stories. This is, I think the weakest and
• 1:16:13
  my my least favorite. But that's like saying that the
• 1:16:17
  Android Invasion is my least favorite story of season 13.
• 1:16:20
  I love the Android Invasion, but it's so much lesser than all the
• 1:16:24
  other stories in that season. Arsenal's favorite from that.
• 1:16:28
  Yeah, yeah, it's a high bar season, yeah.
• 1:16:33
  And like, I agree that it's Anthony in his best
• 1:16:37
  performances, the master, which loads of people have said.
• 1:16:39
  And so if if we're voting out the story that has Anthony in
• 1:16:43
  his best performances and he's the villain, that shows how much
• 1:16:46
  of A high bar we're dealing with tonight.
• 1:16:48
  I mean, best and favorite are two different things.
• 1:16:50
  He's having a lot of fun in the Five Doctors as well.
• 1:16:53
  This we've had this show. Oh yes, I told you he's very
• 1:16:56
  pretty good in Lugopolis as well.
• 1:16:58
  He is very That laugh as a kid, that laugh when you see Aunt
• 1:17:02
  Vanessa backing out of that, that TARDIS and you can hear him
• 1:17:05
  laugh, freaked me out more than anything as a kid.
• 1:17:08
  Please don't get Rod on to Lugopolis.
• 1:17:09
  Don't be on Lugopolis. Not the last time.
• 1:17:11
  No, sorry. We'll need to get Lucy McCall on
• 1:17:13
  to tell me off. So is it going through?
• 1:17:18
  Daniel, you're a little bit mixed.
• 1:17:20
  On I'm on the fence. Oh.
• 1:17:24
  Come on. Fight like animals.
• 1:17:30
  Just the star, Daniel. Just the star.
• 1:17:34
  Oh yeah, a midge. No, it's out.
• 1:17:36
  No. It's out.
• 1:17:37
  He's just my will. Will Barton is terrible.
• 1:17:40
  He's very good at the beginning, but when he's taken over by the
• 1:17:43
  master, no, it's it's not a good performance yet so.
• 1:17:46
  I always eat us up without ketchup.
• 1:17:49
  I I also feel bad because I was just at the Valley at the
• 1:17:52
  weekend when they were all the Oh yeah, that was by far the
• 1:17:56
  best panel of the day. They were all so funny and love
• 1:18:00
  talking about it and everyone in the room was was really on board
• 1:18:03
  with it. They were all hilarious.
• 1:18:06
  I've spent my whole life slagging off Caroline Forbes.
• 1:18:10
  When I met her, she was like the queen.
• 1:18:11
  Oh, hello. Mum.
• 1:18:15
  Well, hopefully Sophie Aldrin won't listen to any of your
• 1:18:18
  commentaries, Joe. She's got better things to do
• 1:18:22
  with her time, Swunting down the Bill Straban's privates, for
• 1:18:26
  one. Shall I go next?
• 1:18:30
  Because I've got feeling. Yes, please could.
• 1:18:32
  I I will, yeah, I'll restore some sanity to this podcast,
• 1:18:35
  which has clearly gone off the rails.
• 1:18:37
  Oh my God, if you're going to put this through, I'll get a
• 1:18:39
  decider. Finally.
• 1:18:41
  Absolutely. This is going through.
• 1:18:43
  Of course it is. So I'm I'm watching a different
• 1:18:47
  programme to you. But then bear in mind, I
• 1:18:48
  suppose, Luke, you watched it later.
• 1:18:51
  I watched it when it went out in 1989.
• 1:18:54
  Yeah, see, I don't know if I'm still watching it through the
• 1:18:56
  eyes of a kid because. And so did Daniel.
• 1:18:58
  And I just well I I was 16 when it was shown So yeah I just to
• 1:19:03
  think just to thinking about this Luke what do you think of
• 1:19:07
  Hale and Pace the two guys in the.
• 1:19:09
  Supermarket. So I did not know who they are.
• 1:19:11
  So to me they're just they're just two guys in the shop.
• 1:19:14
  So that that when people complain about that, it doesn't
• 1:19:17
  bother me because. They're just like, I wondered.
• 1:19:20
  Yeah, I mean 19. 89 There were just two people in the shoppers.
• 1:19:24
  Yeah. But yeah, we're sorry.
• 1:19:28
  Watching this as a kid, I I really like the fact that the
• 1:19:31
  Doctor and the Master had a real fight and that was like my the
• 1:19:34
  thing that I really liked about the story.
• 1:19:37
  Maybe. Yeah.
• 1:19:39
  I've just always sort of seen it on a basic level because
• 1:19:42
  definitely whatever subtext is in here that people claim, I
• 1:19:46
  don't really see it. But anyway, sorry.
• 1:19:50
  Yeah, over to you. Well, I thought, what?
• 1:19:53
  Sorry, bro. Yeah.
• 1:19:54
  So no, no, no. Go for it.
• 1:19:56
  I thought this was visually startling in 1989 because it
• 1:19:59
  just felt so different to any other Doctor Who that we'd seen.
• 1:20:03
  Because we start off in real, relatable suburban streets, and
• 1:20:07
  we haven't seen that really before.
• 1:20:09
  This isn't power stations. It's not a secluded.
• 1:20:11
  English Village like Android Invasion, It's not sci-fi
• 1:20:15
  corridors, it's not covered in tinfoil.
• 1:20:18
  This is real down to where things that everyday audience
• 1:20:21
  could relate to. What has happened to the magic
• 1:20:24
  of Doctor Who? Yeah, bring back the tinfoil.
• 1:20:29
  But even the Mccoys, up to now, most of the earthbound ones have
• 1:20:32
  been historical. So like Delta or Remembrance,
• 1:20:36
  and then the ones that aren't are in places that aren't
• 1:20:38
  necessarily every day, like Windsor Castle.
• 1:20:40
  We don't all go there everyday or archaeological digs, they're
• 1:20:44
  not really relatable. But this is relatable.
• 1:20:46
  The old adage about having you Yeti in a loo in Tooting back.
• 1:20:50
  Suddenly now we're seeing that loo.
• 1:20:52
  We are there now. All of.
• 1:20:53
  Us we're seeing. Cats, Exactly.
• 1:20:56
  Stray Cats. Bloody.
• 1:20:58
  I hate cats by the way, so. That feeds into us.
• 1:21:01
  Oh, I know where I'm going with this one.
• 1:21:03
  Now continue. I don't.
• 1:21:04
  Know with cats. We've got a black cat next door
• 1:21:07
  to us. Hopefully she doesn't listen to
• 1:21:08
  this podcast and it sits in the window just staring at me and I
• 1:21:12
  see that bloody animatronic cat. Does it go?
• 1:21:14
  It's OK. Fair enough.
• 1:21:18
  So here we've got a man washing his car, we've got a milkman
• 1:21:22
  delivering milk to a suburban St. we've got.
• 1:21:24
  It's terrible. Yeah, that milkman is all.
• 1:21:27
  The milkman's pretty bad, yeah, but it's the setting.
• 1:21:30
  Avoid the milkman. Well, why didn't you mention
• 1:21:33
  that hot fella in the tank top and the grey joggers?
• 1:21:36
  I swear that's why I like grey joggers so much.
• 1:21:40
  Sorry, Yeah, we've got a local shop, we've got a rundown
• 1:21:43
  community centre, we've got playing fields of kids
• 1:21:46
  playground. It just feels really, really
• 1:21:48
  relatable. But it is.
• 1:21:50
  It is miserable. But then Ace keeps saying this
• 1:21:52
  is bloody miserable. This is Thatcher's Britain and
• 1:21:56
  it does play into that, that kind of 1980s.
• 1:21:59
  Everything's a bit rundown. Everything's tired.
• 1:22:02
  There's there's nothing to do. Society is not being looked
• 1:22:05
  after. So it figured to me it felt
• 1:22:07
  fresh and different for Doctor Who to get into that.
• 1:22:09
  And then of course we've got that very suburban setting and
• 1:22:12
  then we put the Doctor and Ace into them and then of course we
• 1:22:15
  get the menace. So we get, as you rightly say,
• 1:22:17
  Luke, we've got cats on horseback.
• 1:22:19
  Pursuing Ace tonight is one of the best chase sequences in Dock
• 1:22:23
  2, because we actually get a chase sequence where someone is
• 1:22:25
  actually running properly and they're not just kind of running
• 1:22:28
  slowly, no? When she's going in and out of
• 1:22:30
  those. Frames.
• 1:22:31
  Oh no. But after that, when the horse
• 1:22:33
  is chasing her down, I think that looks great.
• 1:22:36
  So I love all the suburban setting in episode one, and then
• 1:22:39
  I really love it when we go to the alien world in Part 2.
• 1:22:43
  Yes, it looks a bit, you know, it could be, it could be better,
• 1:22:47
  maybe. At the time it was an absolute
• 1:22:49
  cutting edge. But it sells it for me.
• 1:22:51
  It does enough. We've got that red hot sun
• 1:22:53
  burning down on the landscape. I think the location setting is
• 1:22:57
  brilliant. Find it was absolutely
• 1:22:59
  blistering hot there and I think you can actually tell you've got
• 1:23:01
  the sun on the lake. I just think it looks really,
• 1:23:04
  really lovely that it feels alien.
• 1:23:06
  It feels different. You've got the volcanoes
• 1:23:09
  erupting on the horizon. You're everyone's right.
• 1:23:11
  So Dominic Glynn's music absolutely makes the most of
• 1:23:14
  that setting because you really get that sense of of heat with
• 1:23:18
  with his music. You've got just so many lovely
• 1:23:21
  visuals in there. The Cheetah people playing with
• 1:23:24
  the humans. I think it looks really great.
• 1:23:27
  You've got the Doctor master standing in this really weird
• 1:23:30
  derelict alien building having a conversation.
• 1:23:32
  It just looks, it just looks different.
• 1:23:35
  You've got all the chase and pursuits and then that great
• 1:23:37
  shot of ace turning towards the camera with her eyes changed at
• 1:23:41
  the end of episode 2. And then for episode 3, again we
• 1:23:44
  change. We're constantly changing the
• 1:23:45
  Fister we're looking at. So in part three we come back
• 1:23:47
  down to Earth and we go to you know Council Flats.
• 1:23:50
  When did we ever see that in Doctor Who That is absolutely
• 1:23:53
  tying your your symmetry with with Rose.
• 1:23:56
  Yes, it does foreshadow what we're going to see in future,
• 1:23:59
  but then we go back to the planet and see it burning to
• 1:24:01
  death. I just think visually there's so
• 1:24:03
  much in this. I think it looks remarkable for
• 1:24:06
  for the period it was done. And I think it's a triumph.
• 1:24:09
  My second reason is the Master. A lot of you have already said
• 1:24:13
  it. I'm really pleased the Master
• 1:24:14
  came back for the final series, the classic run, But the show
• 1:24:18
  had really not known what to do with Anthony.
• 1:24:20
  Amy. Pretty much I would say since
• 1:24:22
  Castro, Valva, what do we do with him?
• 1:24:24
  He hands it up terribly JNT. Approaches.
• 1:24:29
  Oh please, Marker run. Oh, we haven't got on to that
• 1:24:34
  one yet, but JNT was encouraging him to go panto and my God, he
• 1:24:38
  grabs it with both hands. And he really does.
• 1:24:40
  But here all of a sudden he's fantastic in this.
• 1:24:43
  If only we'd had the master Aimley playing it like this all
• 1:24:46
  the way through. He's desperate, he's trapped, He
• 1:24:49
  can't see a way out and he plays it really straight, which is
• 1:24:53
  interesting because actually he's been taken over by the
• 1:24:55
  planet and when he howls at the moon, Anthony Angley absolutely
• 1:24:59
  could have gone so over the top in that part too.
• 1:25:02
  But he doesn't. He reigns it back.
• 1:25:04
  When they first meet and have a quiet conversation with the
• 1:25:06
  Doctor, you really get that sense of two equals meeting.
• 1:25:10
  Toe to toe with McCoy, he's never got top in for over the
• 1:25:13
  top, so he's like, well, I'll just tone it.
• 1:25:15
  Down, tone it down and get low and it really, really works.
• 1:25:18
  And yes, then when he gets back to Earth, yes, he's a bit
• 1:25:20
  obsessed with destroying the Doctor, but he doesn't do that.
• 1:25:23
  He doesn't give the OTT performance that he's done in
• 1:25:25
  the past. He reigns it in, he's calm, he's
• 1:25:28
  cool, he's he's really bloodthirsty.
• 1:25:31
  So the scene with Mitch, when Mitch gets thrown off the the
• 1:25:33
  motorbike and he just goes over him and says you know what to
• 1:25:36
  do, and Midge dies and he says good boy.
• 1:25:39
  I mean that's really, that's really quite chilling.
• 1:25:41
  When is the Master been chilling like that?
• 1:25:43
  In the last, you know, 5-6 years that we've seen him.
• 1:25:46
  And then he murders Cara in the most vicious ways by stabbing
• 1:25:49
  her. But it's not that kind of again
• 1:25:51
  as you were saying, Daniel, it's not that kind of say would
• 1:25:53
  gratuitous stabbing. It actually means something
• 1:25:57
  here. And I think then when we get
• 1:25:59
  Ailey giving it full rage in the final scene, it finally means
• 1:26:03
  something because he's been calm and collected up to that point.
• 1:26:07
  So I think Anthony's greatness and finally Sylvester.
• 1:26:10
  I just love Sylvester, but I think he's great.
• 1:26:13
  There are so many moments in this clambering over the wall,
• 1:26:16
  putting out cat food. I love it when the old lady
• 1:26:18
  knocks the winter. What are you doing when he's
• 1:26:21
  trying to pull out the cat food, when he's juggling to distract
• 1:26:24
  the cheaters? Favorite scene is when he's
• 1:26:26
  standing still in the the quarry and the cheetahs are running
• 1:26:29
  past. He trips one with his umbrella
• 1:26:31
  and raises his hat to him. I love that.
• 1:26:35
  I think that's fabulous. And yeah, I even like him
• 1:26:39
  shouting at the end, Joe, which you know, I know you're going to
• 1:26:42
  have a problem with. I think it works really well.
• 1:26:46
  And the reason I think it works well is because he does give
• 1:26:48
  that OTT performance. Then he gets transported back to
• 1:26:51
  Earth and back to the TARDIS and he's completely calm straight
• 1:26:55
  away. He's calm and quiet again.
• 1:26:57
  So works for me. I love it.
• 1:26:59
  I'm putting it through which. Which lines do you think is
• 1:27:04
  better than when he shouts it in the desert on the planet, or
• 1:27:07
  when he shouts it in the middle of the road?
• 1:27:08
  Which one? In the road, Yeah.
• 1:27:11
  Animals. With animals he.
• 1:27:16
  Just stands up and he's quiet and calm again.
• 1:27:19
  How did nobody make the true link between Survival and the
• 1:27:22
  new series? The first appearance of Jackie
• 1:27:25
  Tyler in the new series? In the series Flipping Cats.
• 1:27:28
  Oh, I love that woman. I'm still on the fence with this
• 1:27:32
  one. Join.
• 1:27:33
  Us, Joe, Because I tell you what.
• 1:27:37
  I kind of wishing I hadn't now, but I've I've voted now, so
• 1:27:40
  yeah, I can't. Oh.
• 1:27:41
  Oh well, everything's everyone said about this being good.
• 1:27:43
  That sort of deserted, Sundayish, late 80s boring
• 1:27:48
  Paraval. It's so it's every Sunday
• 1:27:51
  afternoon. I remember a sort of tedium of
• 1:27:54
  just of no one on the streets and the shops being shut, and it
• 1:27:58
  did always seem to be sunny as well when I was younger.
• 1:28:01
  I don't know what that's all about.
• 1:28:04
  No, it's got to go this. I'm sorry, it's got to go.
• 1:28:08
  The Cheetahs are a bit embarrassed.
• 1:28:09
  Sylvester is struggling a lot in this one, like the EVE is
• 1:28:14
  between that sort of dark menace we talked about in Ghost Light
• 1:28:17
  and the mad part of the bit in the quarry where he's going.
• 1:28:21
  Don't move. I told you to stay still.
• 1:28:25
  You know Rabbit's ass. Are you joking me?
• 1:28:29
  The outtake The outtake is very good.
• 1:28:31
  When he says I told you to bleeping stop still I.
• 1:28:34
  Know. They cut some of that out.
• 1:28:37
  The music is fantastic. I think it's Dominic King's best
• 1:28:40
  score. I think all the.
• 1:28:42
  I think you're all wrong about the Cheetah planet.
• 1:28:44
  Also, you know Rod, you're right about the atmosphere of it and
• 1:28:48
  the special effects. I think it works really, really
• 1:28:50
  well and the the the concept of the planet that gets under the
• 1:28:54
  skin of people, that's a really interesting idea and it plays
• 1:28:59
  out quite well. I think you can feel the heat
• 1:29:02
  like I I definitely so you're. Putting it through, are you?
• 1:29:06
  Look, you can feel the heat of the pilot, but my my point was
• 1:29:10
  that it was cheap and well cheaper than as a production.
• 1:29:14
  It looked cheaper than the other three in the season, which I do
• 1:29:17
  stand by. And then you've got the Ace
• 1:29:20
  stuff, which I think is great. Ace coming home and always
• 1:29:22
  meeting her friends again and actually giving her a a proper
• 1:29:26
  back story. And I love that line.
• 1:29:28
  I thought you were dead or you've gone to Birmingham.
• 1:29:30
  That's a wonderful line. And you know, her mates are all
• 1:29:33
  a bunch of losers like her, aren't they?
• 1:29:36
  Of course they are. So I I quite like all of that.
• 1:29:42
  There's a lot of weird comedy in that first episode.
• 1:29:45
  In the last episode, I think is where it all goes to shit.
• 1:29:48
  The motorcycle chase is, it's like something from a Bonnie
• 1:29:51
  Tyler movie in it, with the two things ago and he's got the wind
• 1:29:55
  whipping in his face and the mushroom explosion.
• 1:29:58
  I mean, that is just comical, you know, his arse hanging out
• 1:30:02
  the sofa, all of that. How did we end Doctor Who there,
• 1:30:06
  you know? But then I love the bit between
• 1:30:09
  the. Doctor and the Master and the
• 1:30:10
  planet and the planet tearing itself apart as they're
• 1:30:13
  grappling with each other. It's so from scene to scene it's
• 1:30:17
  like the ridiculous sort of sublime, but for no other reason
• 1:30:21
  than Rod said he doesn't like cats.
• 1:30:24
  It's going in the bin because I love cats, even really terrible
• 1:30:29
  looking ones in survival. Oh, you're a bad cat, man, Joe.
• 1:30:33
  I really like the idea that you said, Daniel, about it.
• 1:30:36
  It'd be raining in in a suburban scenes to contest with the hot
• 1:30:41
  scenes, but I wonder if that would take away from the tedium
• 1:30:44
  of the of the Sunday afternoon feel that you're saying.
• 1:30:48
  Well, you said, I mean, Joe says about Sunday afternoons always
• 1:30:50
  being, you know, sunny. I always just remember it.
• 1:30:53
  Always pouring down with rain and just sort of looking outside
• 1:30:56
  the. Window and going.
• 1:30:57
  It felt as if something just lasted forever.
• 1:31:00
  Yeah, I think this side doing nothing.
• 1:31:02
  There's something in the stillness of that of of them
• 1:31:05
  scenes that. Mind you, that guy and the grey
• 1:31:08
  joggers maybe I should keep. You should put it through just
• 1:31:10
  for. That joke?
• 1:31:11
  You can't see it. I think of the joggers, think of
• 1:31:15
  the joggers of all those guys in the youth club.
• 1:31:18
  No, I've just remembered Will Barton is going the bit where he
• 1:31:24
  comes in and he's like, do you know what I'm talking about?
• 1:31:27
  Like he's got that dreadful suit on.
• 1:31:31
  Oh no, he's got to go. It's still full of great stuff,
• 1:31:35
  always. It's quite fun in Space Space
• 1:31:37
  Precinct, but I it's the second weakest of the season for me.
• 1:31:42
  OK, so survival goes right before we do our last two.
• 1:31:46
  Should we go to our second best? Of listeners Dulcip tones of
• 1:31:51
  Luke Malloy and Daniel Knight. Again, let's.
• 1:31:52
  Make them work for their money. Andrew Cornow says.
• 1:31:57
  Not my favorite McCoy season because I'm a country old
• 1:32:00
  bugger, but it's the best. Unlike 24 and 25, it doesn't
• 1:32:05
  have a Duff entry. It's supposed Turkey Battlefield
• 1:32:08
  is nothing of the sort. It's just not quite as good as
• 1:32:11
  the ones that follow which which all push who in new directions.
• 1:32:16
  And we've got Mark Harrison. There's a good case to be made
• 1:32:19
  for the for this last season. The last season was the best.
• 1:32:23
  As usual under Carmel, the story's reach usually exceeds
• 1:32:26
  its grasp, but this is a belting run.
• 1:32:29
  Gareth Barley says not a bad story in the batch here.
• 1:32:33
  The one criticism is the glitter guns for the battlefield nights.
• 1:32:37
  But but on the whole a close to perfect season.
• 1:32:41
  Not to forget its influence afterwards during the Wilderness
• 1:32:43
  Years and the series in 2005. Anthony Carroll I was 18 at the
• 1:32:49
  time and sort of out of love with Who.
• 1:32:51
  Season 26 is a marked improvement on the previous two.
• 1:32:54
  My favorite is Survival. Oops.
• 1:32:57
  Ghost Lights a Mess, Fenrik Agori Romp and Battlefield is
• 1:33:02
  now fun, so 7 out of 10 must do better next time next season.
• 1:33:09
  Dave Rennie from the kettle. No, you see, says Stop.
• 1:33:15
  Promoting other podcasts. No, don't promote.
• 1:33:18
  I've been all at loads. I adore this season.
• 1:33:23
  McCoy and Aljed are in their groove and the focus on Ace is
• 1:33:27
  so refreshing and adds depth to her character.
• 1:33:31
  Dan Hollingsworth 20s season 26 was where the brave new era of
• 1:33:35
  Doctor Who finally all worked perfectly.
• 1:33:37
  Not a Duff story among them. So iconic and frustrating that
• 1:33:41
  this was the end. The show was just out of sync
• 1:33:43
  with popular tastes at the time. Longdon, Colin says.
• 1:33:48
  I remember watching them as transmitted and couldn't believe
• 1:33:51
  how good it all was. It made me love all the areas
• 1:33:54
  that came before it, just by association.
• 1:33:57
  Matt Dennis The best 80 season by a long mile Fresh Inventive
• 1:34:02
  at an atmospheric with two amazing leads at the height of
• 1:34:05
  their powers. Oh, he was doing so well till
• 1:34:07
  the end of that sentence. I was trying not to.
• 1:34:12
  Look at how high is that height though.
• 1:34:17
  PlayStation gamer 187 says I was primed and ready for this season
• 1:34:23
  and it did not disappoint. Fenrick stole the series, scary
• 1:34:28
  and kept me out of any lakes and seas for the bit.
• 1:34:32
  I love them all though. Battlefield is such fun.
• 1:34:35
  Survival holds a special place as the last ever classic.
• 1:34:41
  Colin Hicks An outstanding season, full of great ideas,
• 1:34:44
  clever dialogue and mature themes.
• 1:34:46
  Clearly skewed to a slightly older target audience,
• 1:34:51
  Battlefield is the weakest of the bunch, but it's still better
• 1:34:54
  than anything the show was doing only two years before.
• 1:34:58
  Outrageous. Ian Winston Sorry, Ian Winterton
• 1:35:03
  says, being 17 and 89 and already out of love with the
• 1:35:07
  series. Post Davison due to the coat.
• 1:35:10
  This was the season I watched through, my fingers cringing.
• 1:35:14
  I was wrong, obviously, And now, like most of these stories,
• 1:35:18
  Fenerick in particular, which is up there with the best.
• 1:35:21
  Len Fitzgerald as a 15 year old in 1989, Fenerick was my
• 1:35:25
  favorite, although now I think Ghost Slide is a great story.
• 1:35:29
  At the time I didn't realise how great Sylvester and Sophie were
• 1:35:32
  together. Now I miss the style of classic
• 1:35:35
  who so much. Charlie Barnes The perfect end
• 1:35:40
  to a 26 year run, even though that wasn't the pawn.
• 1:35:44
  I love Mccoy's look in this season.
• 1:35:47
  Never mind, Battlefield aside this I love this season.
• 1:35:51
  If this had been season 25, there might have been a season
• 1:35:54
  27, if that makes sense. It does And.
• 1:35:59
  Season 25 is excellent. I I'd like his idea but I think
• 1:36:05
  I think season season 26 could have got 10 million viewers and
• 1:36:10
  it still would have gone because the the BBC Powell just couldn't
• 1:36:13
  be couldn't be bothered I. Mean it wasn't getting 10
• 1:36:16
  million viewers. It wasn't getting 10 million
• 1:36:17
  viewers at some. Point It was barely getting half
• 1:36:19
  of that. Yeah, and finally the last
• 1:36:23
  comment LSJA fantastic season which has aged like a fine wine
• 1:36:28
  I. Absolutely agree.
• 1:36:30
  Right. We are down to the last two.
• 1:36:32
  Joe, do you want to go next or last?
• 1:36:35
  Oh, I'd love to go next. Please.
• 1:36:38
  Let's get rid of the easily the worst story of the season that's
• 1:36:44
  going, and that is the Curse of Fenrik.
• 1:36:48
  And that's the end of this. Podcast.
• 1:36:51
  I resign. I resign.
• 1:36:53
  I mean the list of problems with this.
• 1:36:56
  I don't think I've ever put so much effort into writing out a
• 1:36:58
  list. I thought you'd love this one
• 1:37:01
  with all the squaddies in it. There are high points to this,
• 1:37:05
  Dan. Hot men and good performances.
• 1:37:07
  Let's start with Sophie Aldridge, shall we?
• 1:37:10
  Oh, didn't know she was my mum. You called me a social misfit.
• 1:37:16
  I can feel the wind whipping up through my clothes.
• 1:37:20
  This is all a bit beyond though, isn't it?
• 1:37:22
  Come on, fight me on this. No.
• 1:37:26
  No, you think this is a a good mature?
• 1:37:28
  Performance. This is a good performance.
• 1:37:30
  It's a good performance for someone who isn't mature.
• 1:37:33
  I think that's what it is. It's.
• 1:37:35
  Totally beyond our ability to deliver.
• 1:37:37
  It is like it has been ripped out of EastEnders.
• 1:37:40
  It's And you know, I've watched this.
• 1:37:42
  I tried to put this story on for other people to watch, the our
• 1:37:45
  Doctor Who fans. And it's those points where I
• 1:37:48
  have to turn it off, where people are just laughing too
• 1:37:50
  much. She's a great presenter.
• 1:37:52
  She's a fun companion, but she's not a great dramatic actress.
• 1:37:57
  Stony silence. Let's talk about Gene and
• 1:38:00
  Phyllis, shall we? The appallingly hilarious 1940s
• 1:38:04
  slapper vampires again. 2 dreadful, dreadful performances.
• 1:38:10
  They're trying so hard to be scary, you know?
• 1:38:12
  What is it they say when they're in the water?
• 1:38:14
  I can't even remember the lions. It's so terrible, someone do it
• 1:38:16
  for. Me come and join us.
• 1:38:19
  Come in the water with. Nobody ever wants to leave.
• 1:38:23
  Join those in the water. Always.
• 1:38:24
  Yes. It's so embarrassing to watch,
• 1:38:27
  don't you think? No, I'd be in there.
• 1:38:31
  No. Way Why not let's?
• 1:38:34
  Talk about the Haim of wars, which are supposed to be really
• 1:38:37
  scary. Doctor Who monsters often shot
• 1:38:39
  in long shot and just look like a bunch of old women holding up,
• 1:38:43
  knitting slowly, walking across the beach in the least scary
• 1:38:48
  way. But there is nothing frightening
• 1:38:50
  at all about the hemavores. I don't even think the masks
• 1:38:53
  look great. They look really rubber rubbery
• 1:38:56
  and I'm convincing. I don't buy it at all.
• 1:38:59
  What? Why is everyone looking at me
• 1:39:00
  like I'm mad? So sorry, I'm not.
• 1:39:04
  I'm not particularly scared at many.
• 1:39:06
  I like, but I like monsters that move slowly.
• 1:39:08
  I love the mummies and pyramids of Mars.
• 1:39:11
  But they're. Boring.
• 1:39:12
  They're sort of shocked with a bit of dynamism, You know, the
• 1:39:15
  haemovores very slowly move along and come out and go woo
• 1:39:19
  out of grace and things like that.
• 1:39:21
  By the way, if if Strictly ends after this episode, no one will
• 1:39:24
  be surprised. It's.
• 1:39:27
  Very, very appropriate, really. Yeah.
• 1:39:29
  Exactly. I think it's one of the most
• 1:39:31
  pretentious scripts, and I use that word a lot lately, but this
• 1:39:34
  is very pretentious that spends a lot of time telling you it's
• 1:39:38
  relevant and mythic and meaningful, but it's just like
• 1:39:42
  all the worst of the New Avengers.
• 1:39:44
  It's angst ridden. It's tedious.
• 1:39:48
  All of this philosophizing, mythologizing, embarrassing soap
• 1:39:53
  operatics, it is just not for me what you must all be, Stephen
• 1:39:59
  Mock fans, because these are all things I'd throw in.
• 1:40:02
  Yes, ancient. We know, we know good Doctor.
• 1:40:04
  Who I think this is a story that is is responsible for a lot, and
• 1:40:08
  it isn't a precursor to the new series.
• 1:40:10
  You're right, that is survival. This is a precursor to The New
• 1:40:13
  Adventures and how how fucking dreary so many of those books
• 1:40:19
  were. And portentous and pretentious
• 1:40:22
  it is, yeah, it really, really isn't great.
• 1:40:24
  The bit at the end where ice is rebirthed in the sea.
• 1:40:28
  I'll always love you, always love you.
• 1:40:30
  And she comes out of the water. Oh, it's just agonising.
• 1:40:36
  Like if you people are moved by that material, I feel for you a
• 1:40:42
  great deal. It's.
• 1:40:45
  I mean, it's at least interesting, you know, you might
• 1:40:48
  not, you might not be moved by it, but do you really think it's
• 1:40:51
  agonising? That NCNR to her actors when
• 1:40:55
  she's on. That who's not done before and
• 1:40:57
  it's really. Really.
• 1:40:59
  Perfect on a basic. Level.
• 1:41:00
  I mean, there are ways of being sort of mature in how you handle
• 1:41:05
  characters and then there is a literal rebirthing in the sea at
• 1:41:09
  the end of the story. Sorry, let's keep going.
• 1:41:14
  Plenty of poor direction in this story as well.
• 1:41:16
  Nick Mallett is not a great director and I think that
• 1:41:21
  there's dodgy framing in this. There's plenty of first take
• 1:41:24
  acting in this, especially from the regulars.
• 1:41:27
  I'll get on to McCoy in a minute.
• 1:41:29
  There's some terrible weather that besieged the production,
• 1:41:33
  but there's also some very unconvincing weather.
• 1:41:35
  They they try to fake like rain in certain scenes.
• 1:41:39
  There's like camera stuff that they do, like that wobbly camera
• 1:41:43
  that's in her backpack when she's going down the church.
• 1:41:46
  It's so primitive. There's lots of sharp cuts away
• 1:41:50
  from horrific moments that don't land because the editing is just
• 1:41:54
  so sharp into the next scene. Often it's like a dialogue scene
• 1:41:58
  or something like that, straight into dialogue.
• 1:42:00
  So those moments don't land at all.
• 1:42:03
  The on transmission, this was hacked to pieces.
• 1:42:07
  There was enough material there for a fifth episode, and it is.
• 1:42:10
  It does remind me a lot of Moffitt's time.
• 1:42:12
  Doctor Who with fucking ADHD. You're here, you're there,
• 1:42:15
  you're everywhere. You're literally flying about
• 1:42:17
  all over the place Now. I don't know if we're covering
• 1:42:20
  what version of Cursor Fenwick, we're covering it.
• 1:42:23
  It certainly works a lot better as a special edition.
• 1:42:26
  But as transmitted, you've got important character scenes that
• 1:42:29
  have been taken out. You've got important plot points
• 1:42:32
  that have been taken out. You've got explanations as to
• 1:42:35
  why we're going from A to B. Taken out, it's an absolute
• 1:42:39
  mess. It doesn't make any sense
• 1:42:40
  whatsoever. I feel like there are there's
• 1:42:44
  some brilliant guest performances in this.
• 1:42:45
  It's another great cast, but you've got like people like Anne
• 1:42:49
  Reed in there and she gets about 3 lines.
• 1:42:53
  And I know, don't go on and say to me, you all grow.
• 1:42:55
  Yeah, you know the guest cast is so good that they can afford to
• 1:42:58
  waste and read. You don't waste and read, go and
• 1:43:01
  watch. What was the programme she did
• 1:43:03
  with that magnificent speech at the end?
• 1:43:05
  The Rusty Davis one? Years and years, you.
• 1:43:08
  Do not waste and read. I hate, I hate criticize.
• 1:43:11
  I hate you know that criticism that there was a good actor in
• 1:43:16
  it? That's not a criticism.
• 1:43:18
  Yeah, how dare you cast someone diesel?
• 1:43:21
  Yeah, but when she only gets to say less and less excitement.
• 1:43:25
  Doctor Johnson, remember your blood pressure?
• 1:43:28
  That had a great role for her. I'd I'd argue that I think she'd
• 1:43:32
  taken some time away from acting and that was one of the she'd
• 1:43:36
  done a couple of things with Victoria Wood but I think she'd
• 1:43:38
  taken a bit of a break from acting and so she was just sort
• 1:43:41
  of getting back. So this is before dinner,
• 1:43:43
  ladies. This is before all the other
• 1:43:45
  things she did, like last time in Halifax.
• 1:43:47
  So I think it was sort of a bit like, I'm just trying to think
• 1:43:52
  of a sort of like similar actor who'd been sort of away from the
• 1:43:56
  limelight because she'd been in Coronation Street, hadn't she?
• 1:43:58
  She was famously killed off by being electrocuted in about 1970
• 1:44:03
  or 1960. Yeah, she was wondering that
• 1:44:05
  Barlow's. Wives, yeah, And I think.
• 1:44:07
  There's a bit of role for her in Doctor.
• 1:44:09
  Who there is there is a better role A.
• 1:44:11
  Long straw and a lot of blood. There is a better world for I
• 1:44:14
  don't get Yeah absolutely. But I think she's quiet in that
• 1:44:16
  I can't think you could. You should complain that you've
• 1:44:18
  they've cast Ann Reed in a small role.
• 1:44:20
  That's like complaining that they've cast Annette Crosby as
• 1:44:23
  The Grand in The More people complain about that as well and
• 1:44:27
  and Olivia. Coleman and all the others at
• 1:44:29
  Moffett. Oh, Sarah.
• 1:44:30
  Bella Weird. Bill Bailey.
• 1:44:32
  I mean, if you complained about them.
• 1:44:34
  All. Yeah, we know ad nausea or just
• 1:44:38
  nauseating. Like, yeah, I'm.
• 1:44:41
  So sorry, I think this has a dodgy things to say about Faith
• 1:44:46
  as well. I'm not entirely sure why the
• 1:44:49
  Doctor, you know, saying out loud the name of his companions
• 1:44:52
  is enough to keep him alive. But the Reverend Rainwire, who
• 1:44:56
  is shown to be, you know, a good man who's obviously faith is
• 1:45:01
  wavering. But I I don't know.
• 1:45:04
  I just, I don't like the fact that the sort of the Christian
• 1:45:06
  characters end up dying in this. I don't know what the story's
• 1:45:09
  trying to say. My mate Paul, he's a Christian
• 1:45:13
  and he hates this story. For what?
• 1:45:15
  For what it says about it. Daniel, I'm not going to throw
• 1:45:17
  this out to you this question, but.
• 1:45:19
  No, I've got, I've got some things to say about it, but
• 1:45:21
  yeah. I I don't like it.
• 1:45:23
  I don't like the fact that you know, the Russian fella, that
• 1:45:26
  his faith in that badge is enough.
• 1:45:29
  But Wayne Wright's faith in his cross isn't, I think.
• 1:45:32
  Well, there are reasons for that, but I'll come into that in
• 1:45:35
  my defence. Couldn't it be any religion,
• 1:45:37
  though? Really, it's just the fact that
• 1:45:39
  his faith is wavering. Guinea.
• 1:45:42
  But the crux of my argument, of course, lies in.
• 1:45:46
  But you haven't had to my way himself.
• 1:45:48
  I have. I've talked about the fact that.
• 1:45:50
  You've just moaned. That's exactly what you did with
• 1:45:53
  Lagopolis and the Dominators, mate, all right?
• 1:45:56
  And we sat there and listened to that.
• 1:45:57
  So you got to listen to this. I've moaned about the monsters
• 1:46:00
  being shit, the editing being shit, the direction being shit,
• 1:46:05
  Sophie Aldred being shit. And let's be honest, Sylvester
• 1:46:08
  McCoy is really shit in this as well.
• 1:46:10
  Like he is just he does not have the ability to pull off this
• 1:46:15
  great mythic timeline that beginning to beginnings 249.
• 1:46:19
  God and evil. It's just awful.
• 1:46:23
  Go back to sticking ferrets down your trousers.
• 1:46:26
  You cannot do. This I've heard You'd be wrong
• 1:46:29
  about so many things, but this is the worst do.
• 1:46:34
  You know, look, I might sucking you on.
• 1:46:36
  That the bit where he comes in the room right and goes and
• 1:46:40
  she's literally like there, right in front of him.
• 1:46:44
  He just sings so many things. He has a couple.
• 1:46:47
  He has good quiet moments. You know the bits with Kathleen
• 1:46:50
  was talking about his family and he's going eyes, eyes in the
• 1:46:54
  dark. But anytime he's asked to raise
• 1:46:56
  his voice that it just is just horrible to watch.
• 1:47:01
  It's just like Matt Smith when we're talking about Agent Takes
• 1:47:04
  Manhattan. It's it.
• 1:47:06
  They're from the same school of acting.
• 1:47:07
  It's it just doesn't work for me at all.
• 1:47:11
  Yeah, this is another one that sort of lurches from being
• 1:47:14
  brilliant because there are great moments in this story to
• 1:47:17
  being truly abysmal from scene to scene.
• 1:47:21
  And the the last point I really want to make about Coast Fenrik
• 1:47:24
  is it should have been shot at night.
• 1:47:27
  I know they couldn't afford to do it.
• 1:47:28
  This is a fucking vampire story for God's sake.
• 1:47:31
  It should have been shot at night.
• 1:47:32
  If you're going to go to the effort of shooting this on
• 1:47:35
  location, then play to his strengths and he should have
• 1:47:39
  found out a bit of extra money and he should have done it.
• 1:47:41
  But as a result, this is all done in the sunshine, so it just
• 1:47:45
  kills the atmosphere. They occasionally put some fog
• 1:47:48
  in the way or something like that, but otherwise, yeah, it
• 1:47:51
  just falls flat. It's it's OK apart it's really
• 1:47:55
  terrible in other parts. So I am going to bin the Curse
• 1:48:00
  of Fenrik. Go forward talking bollocks,
• 1:48:04
  right? Don't we?
• 1:48:07
  Go to the comments. Which?
• 1:48:09
  Might be at odds. With you?
• 1:48:10
  Yeah, probably. Let's probably Jim Allenby, my
• 1:48:13
  all time favourite Doctor Who. This is insanely good.
• 1:48:17
  There's a sense of fear that creeps through the entire
• 1:48:19
  production. The music is some of the best in
• 1:48:21
  the show's history, and I don't think the story has ever
• 1:48:24
  frightened me in this way since. It's the fear.
• 1:48:27
  You know how bad Sylvester Mccoy's going to get as it
• 1:48:30
  progresses. Paul Smyr, My favorite story of
• 1:48:33
  all time. All time.
• 1:48:35
  Bless him, the cast setting music is arguably never
• 1:48:39
  bettered. Episode 3 is one of the best
• 1:48:41
  individual episodes of Who, ending with the series greatest
• 1:48:44
  cliffhanger. Dangerous undercurrents, indeed.
• 1:48:47
  Incredible stuff. James Lark An epic concoction
• 1:48:51
  and true genre piece for once realized as such thanks to
• 1:48:54
  gorgeous locations and atmospheric direction.
• 1:48:57
  Another superb cast and a score to die for with thematic
• 1:49:00
  development Doctor Who has not seen before or since.
• 1:49:04
  Dramatic development. I can't wait to hear what you've
• 1:49:07
  got to say. David Gillespie Pratt, just
• 1:49:09
  wonderful. Part 4 is one of the best single
• 1:49:12
  episodes of the classic era. Do you know, I don't think
• 1:49:14
  that's wrong, actually, in terms of sort of pacing.
• 1:49:16
  It's furious, isn't it? But you have to get through all
• 1:49:19
  that other stuff with high dramatic emotional stakes and a
• 1:49:24
  script bold enough to try and do new things with the role of the
• 1:49:28
  Companion. Fraser Gregory Oh, crazy.
• 1:49:31
  You're so right. I'm not sure there are any other
• 1:49:33
  superlatives I can add to this story.
• 1:49:35
  A well plotted central story with folklore, Vikings, vampires
• 1:49:39
  and vamps. Nicholas Parsons takes JNT stunt
• 1:49:42
  casting criticism and shatters it like the titular chains.
• 1:49:46
  He's astonishingly good. This is not just great Doctor
• 1:49:49
  Who, it's great drama. Full stop.
• 1:49:51
  Keep it. Great draw, but yeah, faster
• 1:49:56
  than a second hand on a watch. Michael Storm.
• 1:49:58
  What lets the story down is that it's hacked to bits for TV.
• 1:50:01
  Subsequent re edits make the episodes look very schizophrenic
• 1:50:05
  indeed, and as a result reveal a lot of the story's flaws.
• 1:50:09
  Oh Michael Storm, thank you. As with Battlefield, we have
• 1:50:12
  stuff happening for the sakes of it.
• 1:50:15
  But unlike Battlefield, the plus points outweigh the bat.
• 1:50:19
  Jo Lou Ellen says Another triumph.
• 1:50:20
  Fantastic setting, superb guests, Great plot on the baby.
• 1:50:24
  Being Ace's estranged mother was quite a modern twist.
• 1:50:27
  Love it. Big Orange Michael immediately
• 1:50:29
  won me over and this is my favorite Doctor Who stories
• 1:50:32
  because a lot of Doctor Who fans are easily impressed.
• 1:50:34
  I love everything about it. Bless the Blu-ray team for
• 1:50:37
  giving us 3 versions of it. James H There's a time paradox
• 1:50:41
  story that doesn't have the charm to get away with it and
• 1:50:44
  the worst seduction scene ever. Great costumes and make up
• 1:50:47
  though, and Nicholas Parsons is amazing.
• 1:50:49
  I'm not sure I believe in ACES computer science education
• 1:50:52
  though. I tried those lines on a bloke
• 1:50:54
  once, right? And that's the only time I
• 1:50:56
  didn't score. Seriously, do not take pick up
• 1:50:59
  tips from Sophie Aldridge, Tom Newsom, one of the richest,
• 1:51:02
  deepest stories ever. A side of things to come.
• 1:51:05
  It's only have you done this one?
• 1:51:08
  No. Oh, so he Flores The editing
• 1:51:10
  like ghost like being a bit too complicated by this point.
• 1:51:13
  They know the audience. Will we watch them on VHS or
• 1:51:16
  read their fantastic novelizations?
• 1:51:18
  Darren, Randall says. Oh.
• 1:51:19
  Listen to this. Listen to this everybody.
• 1:51:22
  My least favorite McCoy. I can clearly see why so many
• 1:51:25
  salivate over it, but it likes the fun.
• 1:51:27
  How come and run around qualities that I hope for in
• 1:51:30
  Doctor Who. I have to be in especially the
• 1:51:32
  right mood for it. It does not lack hokum.
• 1:51:36
  What is he talking about? Jason Thompson Still one of the
• 1:51:39
  very best things the series has ever produced.
• 1:51:41
  Dave Rennie said This is the one I remember to the child as it
• 1:51:44
  scared the shit out of me. It's a tremendous story and
• 1:51:47
  Mccoy's best for me. One of my favourites.
• 1:51:50
  All done. Not a Duff performance, love
• 1:51:54
  looking for the subtext. Justin Millington's hinted at an
• 1:51:57
  affair earlier in life, his guilt at Justin's accident,
• 1:52:00
  etcetera. The Ancient One is magnificent
• 1:52:03
  being. All location makes it.
• 1:52:06
  John Arnold says the Infinity War end game of the year are the
• 1:52:09
  big finale which draws all the threads together.
• 1:52:12
  The show's last go at adopting horror for a tea time audience.
• 1:52:15
  It's Hinchcliff and Holmes for the 80s.
• 1:52:17
  Mark Harrison, It has more going on than it can handle, but the
• 1:52:21
  scripts are the best of the season.
• 1:52:23
  The production doesn't let it down either.
• 1:52:25
  A Carmel cereal with everything on it.
• 1:52:27
  Gavin I wasn't sold on it in 89, but my chains have shattered and
• 1:52:31
  now Nicholas Parsons is sublime. Rihanna, Evans, absolutely adore
• 1:52:37
  it. The chess game concept was a
• 1:52:39
  work of genius. I truly believe it paved the way
• 1:52:42
  for the dark serialized type of fantasy writing we see now.
• 1:52:45
  And Stranger Things, Harry Potter and of course the new
• 1:52:48
  Doctor Who, all have their roots in it.
• 1:52:51
  Steve Tudor says a masterpiece, but the whole series is strong,
• 1:52:55
  varied, entertaining, mind blowing and terrifying.
• 1:52:57
  Plus Nicholas Parsons absolutely blasting it out to the park.
• 1:53:01
  I don't think you can say that Cursive Fenrick was the
• 1:53:03
  precursor to Harry Potter, Stranger Things and new Doctor
• 1:53:07
  Who, that's. A bit of a stress.
• 1:53:11
  Over. Yeah.
• 1:53:12
  Oh, here we go. Tony Filer.
• 1:53:13
  Finally, someone talking sense the pinnacle of ideas over
• 1:53:17
  storytelling and as such, vastly overrated.
• 1:53:20
  And John, David it up perfectly, one of my all time favourites,
• 1:53:24
  stunning and well written, great acting, right.
• 1:53:28
  Well, I'm going to have to respond to you Joe.
• 1:53:30
  You're talking absolute drivel, and I'm with a lot of the other
• 1:53:35
  listeners on this that this is. One of there.
• 1:53:37
  There was a few. Yeah, but this is one of my
• 1:53:40
  favourite Doctor Who stories of all time.
• 1:53:42
  You didn't love the Dominators, so your opinion?
• 1:53:44
  Dominated. How can you compare the
• 1:53:46
  dominators to this? I know how can you compare.
• 1:53:49
  The dominators to this. This is the apotheosis of Doctor
• 1:53:54
  Who, so my first reason. I've just had to put everything
• 1:53:57
  into it because I just think everything is so good in this.
• 1:54:00
  I'm just going to reel off some of the reasons.
• 1:54:02
  Hang on, have I got enough time to make it brew?
• 1:54:05
  You have. Oh, OK, now go on.
• 1:54:07
  Off you go. How rude.
• 1:54:10
  I think everything coalesces in this story.
• 1:54:12
  It's solid gold. I don't think anything's
• 1:54:14
  undercooked. It's not overcooked.
• 1:54:15
  It's perfect. You don't think anything is
• 1:54:18
  overcooked? I don't.
• 1:54:19
  I think it's brilliant. You fucking madman.
• 1:54:23
  So it's a pseudo historical, which I think Doctor Who's
• 1:54:27
  always done well, but it's set in a recognizable time and we've
• 1:54:29
  got elements that we recognize. So obviously with the Ultimate
• 1:54:33
  Machine is a parallel of the Enigma machine, but there's so
• 1:54:36
  many plot strands and twists here and I think they all pay
• 1:54:39
  off because ultimately all those characters there, Millington,
• 1:54:43
  Judson, Soren, Ace, they are all part of Fenrick's game, which is
• 1:54:47
  explained. Die Like an Eric Saywood script.
• 1:54:50
  Oh no, Ace doesn't die. Does.
• 1:54:51
  She No. All the rest do though, don't
• 1:54:52
  they? A lot of them do die here.
• 1:54:54
  But don't pay off there. Don't equate it to Saywood
• 1:54:57
  script please, I know. Earth shock, yeah.
• 1:55:00
  But they are all pawns in Fenrick's game and they've all
• 1:55:04
  been brought together for a reason.
• 1:55:06
  And I think it's a story that's complex, it's thought provoking,
• 1:55:10
  but it's also doesn't forget to be action-packed and dynamic as
• 1:55:13
  well. There's some brilliant chilling
• 1:55:15
  moments, Joe, you were questioning about Wainwright
• 1:55:17
  before he loses his faith because of the not because of
• 1:55:20
  the German bombs landing on England, but because we were
• 1:55:24
  bombing German cities and we were killing German children and
• 1:55:27
  we were very brutal in World War 2.
• 1:55:29
  Miss Hardacre is a Christian as well, and she dies too.
• 1:55:33
  And I just don't think there's any representation there to
• 1:55:36
  suggest that that faith is strong enough.
• 1:55:38
  That was my point. Is it Miss Hardac?
• 1:55:42
  Is it's an over reliance on faith that gets her killed.
• 1:55:46
  But then there isn't a character there that is is representing
• 1:55:49
  that. Well, it's it's not right I
• 1:55:52
  don't think. OK.
• 1:55:53
  I don't. I don't read it in that way.
• 1:55:54
  I think. I think it's got some great
• 1:55:56
  messages. I'd like the father talking
• 1:55:58
  about faith. Daniel I'm sure you've got some
• 1:56:01
  things to say on that in a minute.
• 1:56:02
  For me, it really works. It's not necessarily I don't
• 1:56:05
  find it necessarily pinning it to religious faith.
• 1:56:08
  It's talking about for me. It's talking about faith in the.
• 1:56:11
  I mean, it's in a church. It's clearly a religious well,
• 1:56:14
  yeah. Obviously, but But like you said
• 1:56:16
  before, Sylvester recounts the names of all his companions.
• 1:56:19
  That's who he believes in, though.
• 1:56:21
  That's his. I mean, come on.
• 1:56:23
  He doesn't. You don't actually hear him say
• 1:56:25
  Dodo. No, let's be.
• 1:56:26
  There, no, he could have. Skipped her.
• 1:56:29
  I. Can't imagine he'd be sort of
• 1:56:31
  putting faith in Chameleon either.
• 1:56:33
  Did you see the shadow of someone holding up the program
• 1:56:35
  guy? Get it right, Sylvester.
• 1:56:36
  Come on. They're all there.
• 1:56:38
  But the fact I think that's a fantastic moment when you cancel
• 1:56:40
  that. So it's not just pinning to
• 1:56:42
  religious faith, it's faith in the wider sense and that's what
• 1:56:45
  the Doctor believes in them. For me that really works.
• 1:56:47
  And again we see that at the end when Sophie's tested because she
• 1:56:50
  completely believes in the Doctor and he obviously has to
• 1:56:53
  undermine that faith in a scene very reminiscent of the God
• 1:56:56
  complex. But he has to undermine that so
• 1:56:59
  that the Ancient One can end up imprisoning Fenerick.
• 1:57:04
  I think it ties up all the eras arcs really well that that
• 1:57:08
  moment in Dragon Fire where Ace gets blown to Ice World and the
• 1:57:11
  experiment was Hokum and I think it's wonderful.
• 1:57:14
  I'd never expected it to be revisited by the fact they've
• 1:57:17
  revisited it and actually give you a sensible, rational
• 1:57:20
  explanation for it. It's.
• 1:57:21
  Doing this is is taking away the Wizard of Oz thing of Dorothy
• 1:57:25
  blown away, you know in a in a hurricane to another place.
• 1:57:28
  I don't think it takes away. I take it away.
• 1:57:30
  Because it means it happened for a reason.
• 1:57:33
  There was a topless behind. It a fantastic.
• 1:57:36
  Reason, But doesn't the original in the in The Wizard of Oz
• 1:57:38
  doesn't she get blown away to was for a specific reason, which
• 1:57:41
  is to to kill off the Wicked Witch of the the West?
• 1:57:44
  I haven't seen it for years, sorry.
• 1:57:46
  I'm sure there. Was a reason I'm being rational.
• 1:57:48
  Sorry about very irrational film.
• 1:57:51
  Although I do think that comment about Infinity War again was
• 1:57:53
  stretching it a bit far. It was.
• 1:57:57
  I just watched that this week. Sylvester moved the chess piece
• 1:58:00
  in one episode, and we talked about a time when did another
• 1:58:02
  one. That was it, yeah.
• 1:58:04
  Yeah, I'm not. I'm not going to see Infinity.
• 1:58:07
  War It's early days in terms of arcs, isn't?
• 1:58:10
  It, but we weren't really doing it.
• 1:58:12
  And to do an arc that was seeded 2 years ago, I think it's bold
• 1:58:15
  and I think it's ahead of its time.
• 1:58:18
  The Doctrine Companion. We've got an amazing Doctor and
• 1:58:20
  companion here, Joe Ford. I think Sylvester knows exactly
• 1:58:25
  what he's doing. He's dark and mysterious, but
• 1:58:27
  he's also light and comedic. I think Sophie is fantastic
• 1:58:31
  here. She's charming, she's gutsy.
• 1:58:33
  She's independent. Go and listen to the Rapture,
• 1:58:38
  then you're gonna be really impressed.
• 1:58:42
  I think, I think they'll. Bet you do.
• 1:58:45
  OK, I'll pass on the Rapture, thank you.
• 1:58:47
  But I'm sticking with the curse of.
• 1:58:48
  It's just a load of screaming like this.
• 1:58:50
  You'll love it. But the Doctor and Ace here are
• 1:58:53
  just the best of friends. It doesn't stop them rowing or
• 1:58:56
  questioning each other, but they are absolutely the best of
• 1:58:59
  friends and I think they're such a solid TARDIS team here.
• 1:59:02
  Love them the villain I love, Fenrick is the villain.
• 1:59:05
  Fenrick is just a name given to evil.
• 1:59:07
  It's an epic battle. This is a Time Lord against all
• 1:59:11
  powerful evil. When's it get higher than that?
• 1:59:13
  And I love the fact that when Fenrick actually inhabits
• 1:59:16
  Judsons body, it becomes a little bit of a camping villain.
• 1:59:20
  Which, obviously a camp villain in Doctor Who is always great.
• 1:59:23
  We do lose a lot of it. It does come out more in the
• 1:59:26
  extended version, but he does get some great lines.
• 1:59:28
  Didn't tell London when he's taken over by Fenrick.
• 1:59:31
  When it comes to death, quantity is so much more satisfying than
• 1:59:34
  quality. And this is oh, I should use
• 1:59:37
  this one actually. On you, Joe.
• 1:59:38
  Don't interrupt me when I'm eulogizing.
• 1:59:42
  And there's I think you flatter yourself.
• 1:59:45
  There's the best one that gets cut out when all the when the
• 1:59:48
  hemavores have attacked the the, the camp soldiers.
• 1:59:51
  And he said, oh, we're so English, everything stops for
• 1:59:54
  tea. Unfortunately that's in the
• 1:59:55
  extended version. But you know, we all love a camp
• 1:59:58
  villain in Doctor Who. Great.
• 2:00:00
  I I also disagree with you strongly on Nicholas Mallet's
• 2:00:03
  direction. I think the direction is really
• 2:00:05
  strong here, I think. Stop shaking your head.
• 2:00:08
  I think it gives. I'm sorry.
• 2:00:10
  It's really, really incompetent, I'd say in places.
• 2:00:15
  Disagree. I think it absolutely.
• 2:00:17
  I love the action sequences. Oh, watch it again.
• 2:00:20
  I I did. Watch the camera angles, Watch
• 2:00:23
  the editing, Watch the framing of the scenes, Watch how cheap
• 2:00:27
  it all looks on location. It's not a world, does it?
• 2:00:30
  Carry me away? Do I get totally absorbed?
• 2:00:32
  In it, but technically I'm not talking about your own
• 2:00:35
  experience, but does it? Does it work as a direction?
• 2:00:37
  Does it work as a piece of television?
• 2:00:39
  Absolutely, 100% it does. Because I've become totally
• 2:00:42
  absorbed in it. I'm totally, yeah.
• 2:00:44
  One away from getting the chop though, isn't it it?
• 2:00:47
  It was working so well as television.
• 2:00:49
  Yeah, I think that as as Daniel said, that was writing was on
• 2:00:52
  the. Wall, I know I'm just being
• 2:00:54
  cheeky. I know you're being a swine.
• 2:00:56
  I think it's got amazing score. Marquez score is fantastic.
• 2:01:00
  The guest cast are all brilliant.
• 2:01:02
  The monster design, I think the home of all Fanta, don't know
• 2:01:05
  what's wrong with you. And when they get shot down by
• 2:01:07
  the Russian soldiers and then they keep getting back up again
• 2:01:10
  and attacking, I think that looks.
• 2:01:12
  Fantastic knitting. And in amongst all of this chaos
• 2:01:18
  and madness, this story's got heart.
• 2:01:19
  Because in episode 4, when everything's just going to hell,
• 2:01:23
  we focus in on one woman who's just lost her husband at war and
• 2:01:27
  she's cuddling and protecting her baby.
• 2:01:30
  It's got real heart in the heart of this story, and I love it for
• 2:01:32
  that. So that's just one reason why I
• 2:01:35
  like it. All those things just come.
• 2:01:36
  Together just one. Reason because that's one.
• 2:01:39
  I'm going to bed tonight. Hurry up.
• 2:01:41
  I've got two other very quick things.
• 2:01:44
  One is Jayanti, because we probably won't talk about him
• 2:01:46
  anywhere else and he's gone through being lauded.
• 2:01:50
  When he came in as the series best producer and fans were
• 2:01:53
  thrown bouquets at him for his first two years, telling him
• 2:01:55
  there was best ever giving him framed awards and you're the
• 2:01:58
  best. And we've gone from that down to
• 2:02:00
  the cancellation crisis when he was, you know, the absolute
• 2:02:03
  devil Incarnate. But you know, he's gone through
• 2:02:06
  all that shit and he's still turning out stuff like this and
• 2:02:09
  overseeing gold. He's established a really good
• 2:02:11
  relationship with Carmel. He's like, can't Mel take the
• 2:02:14
  creative lead? He's thinking about budgets on.
• 2:02:16
  So in this story he makes sure they do it all on location,
• 2:02:19
  which otherwise they wouldn't have done.
• 2:02:21
  He's promoting the hell out of the show when the BBC isn't.
• 2:02:24
  There's no trailers for Doctor Who at this time, but he's
• 2:02:26
  getting sequences on kids TV to tell them to go and watch Doctor
• 2:02:30
  Who. He's directing the second unit.
• 2:02:33
  He does all the underwater scenes and does them really
• 2:02:35
  well, like he did the Ruston Warrior scenes in Five Doctors.
• 2:02:40
  So I think John Nathan Turner doesn't get enough love and I'm
• 2:02:44
  going to give him some love and he's one of my reasons.
• 2:02:46
  And my third reason before you, but it again, is Andrew Carmel,
• 2:02:50
  who I think has brought such a distinctive form of storytelling
• 2:02:54
  to his three years, but no more so than this year with new
• 2:02:57
  writers. He's got this graphic novel
• 2:02:59
  sensibility, and this really pushes the barriers by
• 2:03:02
  discussing faith, sex, sexuality, horror and war.
• 2:03:06
  It's doing what Doctor Who should do.
• 2:03:07
  It's it's frightening us, It's making us think.
• 2:03:10
  And I love it. And it's going through and it's
• 2:03:12
  in my top five S Screw you. Sex.
• 2:03:15
  When's there sex in this? Dan, I will go to you.
• 2:03:21
  OK, do you know what I I think you put a very good, OK, both of
• 2:03:27
  you put a very good case for and against.
• 2:03:29
  And I can see I think part one is all over the place and I
• 2:03:34
  think that's because it's been edited to bits.
• 2:03:37
  Nothing again, like, like survival, nothing seems to
• 2:03:40
  happen. The Doctor goes from one set of
• 2:03:41
  characters and locations to another.
• 2:03:43
  For example, he arrives in the crypt and after about 30 seconds
• 2:03:47
  he says, oh, now let's leave Doctor Johnson to his puzzles
• 2:03:50
  and he just turned up and it's it's it's scene setting and it
• 2:03:54
  feels clunky. And it is it clunky because it's
• 2:03:57
  been edited to fit the 25 minutes, which, you know, really
• 2:04:00
  would have been nice for them to find a different slot, even just
• 2:04:03
  to have Terry Wogan waffling on for 5 minutes less just to give
• 2:04:07
  that that episode just a little bit more time to breathe.
• 2:04:11
  But you could also argue that it's a very clever analogy of
• 2:04:15
  the doctor checking that his chest pieces are all in place,
• 2:04:18
  knowing that he's about to engage Fenrik in the final
• 2:04:21
  battle, I think. That's your reading, though,
• 2:04:24
  rather than one that's in the. Script Could be, I don't know,
• 2:04:28
  Ace. Now you were saying about how
• 2:04:30
  you think Sophie, Audrey is terrible.
• 2:04:31
  I think she's really good in this, but we seem to.
• 2:04:34
  But we forget that she's a 26 year old actress playing a 1617
• 2:04:39
  year old. She gets a lot of Flack for that
• 2:04:41
  scene where she's seducing the squaddy, but.
• 2:04:44
  As a 60, she's a 65 year old actress.
• 2:04:47
  She's still playing a 16 year old.
• 2:04:50
  Yeah, but she's she was great in the power of the Doctor and you
• 2:04:52
  love the power of the Doctor, so don't you come with that, with
• 2:04:54
  that. And yeah, that's.
• 2:04:55
  She's one of my favorite things in it.
• 2:04:57
  Yes, exactly. Good idea, Daniel.
• 2:04:59
  Distract him with a bit of chip and all.
• 2:05:01
  He'll go. He'll go away.
• 2:05:04
  So I'd argue that that scene where they would, she really
• 2:05:07
  would be very naive. She is emotionally immature, so
• 2:05:13
  I imagine that her. Chatting up.
• 2:05:15
  No ace. I imagine that her chatting up
• 2:05:17
  would be slightly awkward and slightly corny.
• 2:05:21
  She's very naive. Look at when she assumes that
• 2:05:24
  Catherine is that Kathleen isn't married in an era where babies
• 2:05:28
  being born out of wedlock would have been a huge taboo.
• 2:05:33
  And she's she gets continually knocked down.
• 2:05:35
  She finds these guys that she's interested in.
• 2:05:38
  We, you know, with Mike in in Remembrance of the dialects, he
• 2:05:41
  turns out to be a Nazi. And then here she has a bit of a
• 2:05:44
  fling that you there's obviously that sort of emotional
• 2:05:47
  connection with Sorin and he ends up being possessed by an
• 2:05:50
  evil being from the dawn of time.
• 2:05:52
  You know, give the girl a break, for goodness sake.
• 2:05:54
  Can I tell that can I talk Nazi though?
• 2:05:57
  And he's a very hot, evil being since before the door of time.
• 2:06:02
  Can I just add to that as well, Daniel, you were saying that Ace
• 2:06:05
  at that moment is very immature. You're absolutely right.
• 2:06:07
  I completely agree with you. And there are twice, twice she
• 2:06:11
  slides into a situation when she shouldn't.
• 2:06:13
  So the first time when she tells Judson the answer to the
• 2:06:16
  hieroglyphics and solves it for him, which the Doctor doesn't
• 2:06:19
  want her to do. And then again, obviously right
• 2:06:21
  at the end when she works out how to win the chess game and
• 2:06:24
  she goes in and blurts it straight out to Sorin.
• 2:06:27
  So you're right, they are absolutely laying it out that
• 2:06:29
  she is immature at this stage. She's still young, she's making
• 2:06:33
  schoolgirl errors, and she just made two of them there.
• 2:06:35
  Yeah, second point, I'd argue that this is sort of looking
• 2:06:40
  back at Hinchcliffe style horror, but it's also a lot more
• 2:06:47
  emotionally aware in terms of commenting about, for example,
• 2:06:50
  Gene and Phyllis not being maidens.
• 2:06:52
  You know, let's meet Maiden's point.
• 2:06:54
  And Gene and Phyllis, one of them says Oh well that that that
• 2:06:57
  rules us out which is quite a strong thing for for classic
• 2:07:01
  dogs who to to to talk about there are yeah themes of faith.
• 2:07:08
  I can understand why your friend as a Christian would find this
• 2:07:11
  objectionable and yes it doesn't paint in a in a in a very good
• 2:07:17
  light. However at the time World War
• 2:07:20
  Two was questioning was was causing a lot of Christians to
• 2:07:23
  question their faith of where God was in this situation.
• 2:07:27
  And I think I'd argue that that's, I don't think that's
• 2:07:31
  something that I would feel. I mean in the at the moment
• 2:07:34
  we've got wars in Ukraine, we've got wars in in in Israel.
• 2:07:38
  The situation in Israel at the moment my faith is not wavering
• 2:07:41
  because of that. I know that God is in control
• 2:07:43
  and I I don't fully understand what's happening and why it's
• 2:07:47
  happening. But the idea of the idea of
• 2:07:49
  people having free will to do atrocities that are happening, I
• 2:07:56
  have to accept that. And that's why that's what that
• 2:08:00
  and that as you, in a way, makes my faith stronger.
• 2:08:02
  I think Nicholas called, not Nicholas called.
• 2:08:04
  Nicholas Parsons. He's so gentle.
• 2:08:07
  He's, he's the archetypal vicar. He's so good in this.
• 2:08:11
  The bit where he's reading from 1 Corinthians in the church, in
• 2:08:15
  the extended version, he breaks down, I think, doesn't he?
• 2:08:18
  He does sort of. But there's that look then.
• 2:08:21
  That's that lovely scene where, and again, it's the emotional
• 2:08:24
  immaturity of Ace thinking that she can fix things by telling
• 2:08:27
  him the future is not so bad. And she tells him have faith in
• 2:08:30
  me. It's a lovely scene that both of
• 2:08:33
  them get to, and I wish it had been a little bit longer.
• 2:08:36
  But that's the thing this there is so much in this story.
• 2:08:39
  There's almost too much. There are too many characters, I
• 2:08:41
  think and like you say, putting Anne Reid in a in a small role
• 2:08:46
  where she's sort of right at the bottom of the end of the cast in
• 2:08:48
  the credits. It is a bit of a shame, but I
• 2:08:50
  it's not the only Doctor Who story to do that.
• 2:08:55
  It. It does it.
• 2:08:56
  Yes, I think yes. It would have had a lot more
• 2:08:58
  atmosphere if it had been filled by night, but I think Underworld
• 2:09:02
  would have been a lot better if they had filmed in proper caves
• 2:09:05
  and and and a tiny and. Flux would have been a whole lot
• 2:09:09
  better if it had been scraps, but that's another.
• 2:09:11
  Story Well, I don't. Think you're right on that
• 2:09:13
  either, but there we go. I, you know, yes, it would.
• 2:09:19
  It would have been lovely to have had a bigger budget where
• 2:09:21
  they could have done night shoots and it would have been a
• 2:09:25
  lot more atmospheric, but it. Is insane to have a Horror Story
• 2:09:28
  and there's no night filming in it.
• 2:09:30
  It's just ridiculous. Pyramids of Mars is a Horror
• 2:09:33
  Story and there is no night filming in that either.
• 2:09:35
  Is there's a day story? There's some day for night Film
• 2:09:38
  It's more. Of a Horror Story than this,
• 2:09:40
  It's scary of this as well. There's also day for night
• 2:09:43
  shooting in this as well. The bit where the soldier
• 2:09:47
  Perkins is is sort of on on Century duty and the I'm
• 2:09:51
  talking. About the scenes in and around
• 2:09:52
  the graveyard and things like that.
• 2:09:54
  If they'd have been shot at night, they would have been
• 2:09:56
  amazing. They would have been absolutely,
• 2:09:58
  but we can't, they couldn't afford it.
• 2:10:01
  So we just have to accept the second best.
• 2:10:04
  It's just one of my points. Remembrance of the Daleks would
• 2:10:07
  have been a lot better if they'd have filmed it at the right
• 2:10:09
  proper time of year. And that was at night as well.
• 2:10:12
  But we we couldn't get that. So yeah, I can understand your
• 2:10:16
  argument for that, but I yeah. And it would have been lovely to
• 2:10:19
  have put for it to been filmed at night.
• 2:10:20
  Really is. I don't see the atmosphere that
• 2:10:22
  everybody else does, whether it's in the blistering sunshine,
• 2:10:25
  I just. Don't think there is blistering
• 2:10:27
  sunshine, I think. It's really there.
• 2:10:29
  There are a couple of scenes where it's obvious that they've
• 2:10:32
  got the, the sprinklers doing the the scene where it's
• 2:10:36
  terrible, Sorry are lined up against the wall because they're
• 2:10:40
  going to be shot. Yeah, that's obviously it's.
• 2:10:45
  It's brilliant sunshine and it's there's the, there's the.
• 2:10:47
  We love them all gingerly, sort of walking across that mug.
• 2:10:50
  Because it's so scary. It's a quad mire, yes.
• 2:10:53
  But even even modern TV suffers from that.
• 2:10:55
  You can often tell when the when the rail machines been turned on
• 2:10:58
  and that's not a lot better. Than the.
• 2:11:00
  Beginning a new they could grade that.
• 2:11:02
  Yeah. I'd also say that my other thing
• 2:11:05
  is to say about again, it's a great cast at Dinsdale, Landon,
• 2:11:10
  that bit where he's possessed by Fenrick and he brings the
• 2:11:15
  hemovores in to kill off Nurse Crane because he's she's
• 2:11:18
  humiliated him all these years as his nurse is horrible.
• 2:11:22
  And that smile at the end where they're killing her and he's
• 2:11:25
  smiling there, standing there with a big smile on his face.
• 2:11:27
  It's horrible and probably the scariest bit of the OR the
• 2:11:32
  creepiest bit of the of the story.
• 2:11:34
  So I'm sorry, no, I I think I understand your your opinions,
• 2:11:37
  Joe, but I think this has got to stay in.
• 2:11:39
  Well, thank you for respecting me enough for having my
• 2:11:42
  opinions, Daniel, how lovely to have you here.
• 2:11:48
  He doesn't want blowing smoke up.
• 2:11:50
  Is is the check in the post. I've been asking that all this
• 2:11:54
  time. No, there isn't.
• 2:11:56
  Luke. Your take on the curse of
• 2:11:59
  Fenrick? Oh.
• 2:12:00
  Well, I mean since since we're talking about rain and stuff, I
• 2:12:03
  actually love the location work in this.
• 2:12:05
  I think it, I think it's smacks of reality.
• 2:12:09
  There's just bits of it like the Doctor in a slipping through
• 2:12:12
  that loads of muds and the dead men's face is gorming deep in
• 2:12:18
  the water. And then the whole world of it.
• 2:12:21
  It might not be filled at night, but it's never ever bothered me
• 2:12:24
  that the whole world of its screams.
• 2:12:27
  World War 2 and British Village and danger.
• 2:12:30
  And I I think I was going about to say that like this is
• 2:12:35
  possibly the best location work on classic ducks Move over City
• 2:12:39
  of Death which is just a load of jogging about this.
• 2:12:43
  This is a proper proper. Like if you you're thinking of a
• 2:12:47
  British World War 2 village, this is exactly how I would
• 2:12:51
  picture it, so that that'd be my first.
• 2:12:55
  Shame he can't point a camera though in it, but nevermind.
• 2:12:58
  I don't see that at. All I don't see.
• 2:13:01
  That go back and watch it again now and see how he's framing
• 2:13:03
  these shots. I I just don't think.
• 2:13:07
  Richard Martin's back in the house, baby.
• 2:13:10
  I also like Sophia. This is Sophia's best
• 2:13:12
  performance, and it is a good one.
• 2:13:16
  She thought you jump in for the reasons that we everyone sort of
• 2:13:20
  said it's it's she's immature and she's playing it like that
• 2:13:26
  and naive and doesn't understand properly the world.
• 2:13:31
  I think it's great. The OK, the second point though,
• 2:13:34
  the complex plot. This is a beautiful, juicy,
• 2:13:38
  complex plot of Moffett worthy plots.
• 2:13:44
  Like there's there's there's a time travel plot of the
• 2:13:46
  hemavores creating themselves by the Ancient one releasing the
• 2:13:50
  gas. And that is the least complex
• 2:13:52
  part of this story which just shows how fascinating you get
• 2:13:57
  intelligence. It is if if you know if you're
• 2:14:00
  into that so. Complex about it.
• 2:14:02
  Could you break it down for me? Well, no, it's too complex, Joe.
• 2:14:07
  Obviously he's a man who's just put a load of people in certain
• 2:14:10
  places. No, you've got just.
• 2:14:12
  They've all just turned up in one place.
• 2:14:14
  Really very. Complicated.
• 2:14:17
  You gave the wrong understand. The correct answer was Joe.
• 2:14:19
  You just wouldn't understand. David actually the only thing I
• 2:14:23
  think is it's complicated and the only thing I can't work out
• 2:14:28
  is that logic system that ACE seems to do in two seconds on
• 2:14:31
  the on the blackboard. That, to me, is more confusing
• 2:14:34
  than anything we had in Ghost Light.
• 2:14:36
  This is a story that has the rule.
• 2:14:38
  The black and white porns don't fight each other.
• 2:14:40
  They join for this. That is a brilliant solution.
• 2:14:44
  Joe, don't interrupt us when we're eulogising.
• 2:14:48
  OK, sorry. That I think that is a solution
• 2:14:51
  to the whole puzzle is actually genius.
• 2:14:54
  Like, but I I'm, I'm never bothered about sticking to the
• 2:14:58
  rules of the game or the world or the story.
• 2:15:02
  So I could see why that would bother people.
• 2:15:05
  But in a in a fantasy show like Doctor Who, especially when it's
• 2:15:10
  a metaphor for what's actually going on with the pawns of
• 2:15:12
  family, I think it's a great solution.
• 2:15:15
  I mean, maybe it's not something that will keep family
• 2:15:19
  preoccupied for 17 centuries or whatever it is, but it's still
• 2:15:24
  very good. Oh, and the the discussion about
• 2:15:26
  carving the chess pieces out of the bones, and that just makes
• 2:15:31
  that's one of those Russell TD things that makes a doctor seem
• 2:15:34
  so powerful and, like, mistful that it's just happening in the
• 2:15:38
  background. I love all that stuff.
• 2:15:42
  But yeah, it's I mean I had this written down this bit and then
• 2:15:47
  you said it was very pretentious and all loads of nonsense.
• 2:15:50
  And I my sentence was it's as close as Doctor Who story gets
• 2:15:54
  to a work of art. I rest my case.
• 2:16:01
  The only thing that stops me sort of loving, loving fabric is
• 2:16:06
  that I don't ever feel like it's particularly mine.
• 2:16:09
  I think there's fans out there probably like you, Rod, that
• 2:16:12
  have more affection or love it more than that.
• 2:16:14
  Doesn't mean I don't love it, but it's not mine.
• 2:16:17
  You know, some Doctor Who stories are just, yeah, this
• 2:16:21
  one, I think it's just a brilliant story, but I don't
• 2:16:23
  have any sort of that personal affection to it.
• 2:16:27
  But yeah, and then I think the ending with the theme of faith,
• 2:16:30
  the whole thing's been about faith thematically about faith
• 2:16:33
  and a lot of it about the destruction of faith.
• 2:16:35
  So the solution to the plot coming with basically the Doctor
• 2:16:39
  destroying aces faith in in him and that will forever add the
• 2:16:44
  distrust to their relationship, which is obviously expanded on
• 2:16:49
  in the novels and stuff. But even if the novels didn't go
• 2:16:51
  on and that event would add a distrust into that relationship
• 2:16:55
  forever from there. And that's such a good end that,
• 2:17:00
  as you say, it was repeated in the God complex, probably
• 2:17:03
  slightly better done by Amy Pond fan.
• 2:17:07
  But it was something that classic who hadn't done before
• 2:17:09
  this, this solely focusing, especially a story this big on a
• 2:17:16
  relationship between the Doctor and companion.
• 2:17:19
  That's the beauty of Seven and eight really.
• 2:17:21
  That's the reason everyone likes them, because they relate.
• 2:17:24
  They are a relationship that is tested and pushed and clear and
• 2:17:29
  brilliant. And I think the cursor, Fenrick
• 2:17:32
  shows all that in a beautiful manner.
• 2:17:35
  So yes, I'm I'm keeping it. Very well settled.
• 2:17:38
  I mean, I knew everyone was going to keep it, but I don't
• 2:17:41
  care. So three of us put it through,
• 2:17:45
  and one of us is a madman. I've got to say though, like on
• 2:17:48
  another day, I could have given a spectacular argument.
• 2:17:51
  It is defence as well because there's enough there that
• 2:17:54
  obviously that you can but you know.
• 2:17:57
  Has this always been? Fun to be me though.
• 2:18:01
  Has it always been your least favorite?
• 2:18:02
  No, It used to be Battlefield, but we'll get.
• 2:18:05
  There, which is what you've left me with.
• 2:18:07
  Thanks guys. Great.
• 2:18:11
  Actually, I do like Battlefield, but I would say it's probably
• 2:18:15
  the weakest of the four. But I am still going to defend
• 2:18:17
  it because I do still like it. And for my 3 reasons, I'm going
• 2:18:22
  to do something slightly different.
• 2:18:24
  My three reasons are all the cliffhangers because I think.
• 2:18:29
  Please. Yeah, because I think there's a
• 2:18:32
  reason. Not necessarily about the
• 2:18:34
  cliffhanger, but I'm picking the cliffhangers because I think the
• 2:18:37
  cliffhangers, each of them exemplifies something different
• 2:18:40
  about the story and its strengths and some of its
• 2:18:43
  weaknesses, but I am still championing it.
• 2:18:46
  So the first cliffhanger is visually is a complete bloody
• 2:18:50
  mess. So we start leading up to the
• 2:18:53
  cliffhanger with the cringe worthy boom, which lots of our
• 2:18:57
  listeners we'll talk about. Boom.
• 2:19:01
  Boom, boom and slim being exploded through the air into
• 2:19:06
  the bar. He could explode in the air
• 2:19:08
  every time he wants. And then we get the soldiers
• 2:19:15
  just walking onto the set. They were supposed to
• 2:19:17
  breakthrough the walls and the wall was supposed to explode.
• 2:19:20
  They were storming in, but they just kind of walk on satellite.
• 2:19:23
  They've just come onto the generation game.
• 2:19:25
  So visually, yeah, that cliffhanger is an absolute
• 2:19:28
  bloody mess. But why am I championing it, you
• 2:19:31
  may say? Because I think it kind of
• 2:19:33
  exemplifies what's going on at the time.
• 2:19:35
  So yet again, filming was compromised during this.
• 2:19:38
  So they lost two days of studio filming because there was a
• 2:19:41
  strike. Oh surprise, surprise, BBC
• 2:19:43
  strike over salaries this time. So they lost two days out of
• 2:19:46
  their 12. And.
• 2:19:48
  But what I think this exemplifies is that this
• 2:19:50
  production team at this time and we saw it in Great Show in the
• 2:19:52
  Galaxy, we're seeing it again here.
• 2:19:54
  They're constantly battling against the clock, there's
• 2:19:57
  constant strikes. But the production team are so
• 2:20:00
  dedicated to doing the best they can and turning out a product.
• 2:20:04
  They're totally committed to the show that they're going to, you
• 2:20:06
  know, push ahead, forge ahead, whatever.
• 2:20:09
  And I think that's that's great that OK, it might not look
• 2:20:12
  great, but you know they are working their best to get the
• 2:20:15
  best out there for what they can do.
• 2:20:17
  I will also say that our sequence.
• 2:20:20
  Probably shows and I know Joe, I'm sure you're going to pick on
• 2:20:22
  this. You've already alluded to it
• 2:20:23
  that Michael Kerrigan is not the best director on the planet.
• 2:20:28
  He's he's good at some scenes, his action sequences and they've
• 2:20:31
  given him an action story are generally pretty poor.
• 2:20:35
  And we'll see that throughout some of the combat scenes that
• 2:20:37
  come along. And that cliffhanger, the way
• 2:20:39
  that that's framed, particularly Anselm being blown into there
• 2:20:42
  and we see it twice, him lifting off the ground really slowly.
• 2:20:46
  It's. So you can see it in that way.
• 2:20:48
  Now you can't see it because no, I can't.
• 2:20:51
  See it? Of course, Fenrick at all, but I
• 2:20:52
  can absolutely say it here. But what saves this cliffhanger
• 2:20:57
  and why I'm championing it is how that cliffhanger gets
• 2:20:59
  resolved and that's by the reveal of the Doctor as Merlin.
• 2:21:03
  So again, I think Karl and obviously Benaronovich here are
• 2:21:06
  adding more layers and textures to the mystery of the Doctor Is
• 2:21:12
  is the Doctor Merlin in the past or in the future?
• 2:21:15
  Possibly, maybe isn't. Again, we don't necessarily get
• 2:21:18
  a clear cut answer, which is great, adds to the mystery.
• 2:21:21
  There's certainly lots of evidence that he is because all
• 2:21:23
  the incidental characters recognize him as Merlin from
• 2:21:26
  Ansel in to more game. But we don't know and I think
• 2:21:29
  that's again a lovely touch of adding mystery to the character,
• 2:21:33
  which is what they were absolutely intent on doing.
• 2:21:36
  But it's. The sorry, could it be one of
• 2:21:38
  the only times where the resolution is better than the
• 2:21:40
  cliffhanger? I'm sure there are some others
• 2:21:44
  out there, but it is it is definitely one of them.
• 2:21:46
  Yeah, cliffhanger going into this.
• 2:21:48
  Pretty sad, but we get moderate. He just literally slinks away
• 2:21:53
  when he knows that the Doctor, when he thinks the Doctor is, is
• 2:21:57
  Merlin. And the Doctor does that lovely
• 2:21:59
  bluff about unleashing a terrible something upon you.
• 2:22:02
  And you know he's making it up as he goes along because he's no
• 2:22:04
  idea what's going on. But I think that resolution is
• 2:22:07
  fantastic, and seeing as it's my only time to talk about
• 2:22:10
  Sylvester in this story, I'm going to pick on a couple of
• 2:22:13
  instances. Although it's not the
• 2:22:14
  cliffhanger, I love the bit where he walks between Anselyn
• 2:22:18
  and Mordred as they're battling in the final episode that is so
• 2:22:21
  beautifully choreographed. I do like Joe, put Joe on mute,
• 2:22:26
  please. I like his final confrontation
• 2:22:28
  with more gain. I think that works really well.
• 2:22:30
  But my favorite moment, one of my favorite moments of the 7th
• 2:22:34
  Doctor in entirety, is when he walks into the bar in Part 2 and
• 2:22:39
  more Bambara and Ansel in her asleep, and he picks up the
• 2:22:42
  crisp packet, blows it up, explodes it, and then just walks
• 2:22:46
  away like he's done nothing and they both jump away.
• 2:22:49
  I felt a brilliant review in SFX magazine of Battlefield when it
• 2:22:53
  came out on video that said Sylvester McCoy was more
• 2:22:56
  convincing popping a bag of crisps than he was at doing any
• 2:23:00
  dramatic action. And I've got to say I agree.
• 2:23:04
  How to take a lovely moment and make a bitchy comment out of it.
• 2:23:07
  But that's Part 1. Cliffhanger to Part 2 is very
• 2:23:10
  different. So we've got Ace trapped in
• 2:23:13
  what's effectively the airlock of the ship as it's flooding the
• 2:23:16
  doctors being menaced by the automated defence system.
• 2:23:20
  One thing I'm going to pick on that scene is the music.
• 2:23:22
  I think the music in that scene, it's absolutely spectacular and
• 2:23:26
  it does what Teff does really well with the show.
• 2:23:29
  Daniel, you were talking about him before, he's really good at
• 2:23:31
  kind of those action sequences and building up the the tension
• 2:23:34
  and the momentum and the pacing and rolling into the final
• 2:23:37
  credits. He really picks that pace up.
• 2:23:40
  And let's just listening to that kind of final piece coming up
• 2:23:43
  with the cliffhanger, I think he's great.
• 2:23:44
  I think his music is sometimes right.
• 2:23:46
  It is generally derided, but I think he does a great job on
• 2:23:49
  most of his stories and that's an excellent example.
• 2:23:53
  I think Sylvester again also works really well in that
• 2:23:55
  cliffhanger doing his kind of physical comedy.
• 2:23:57
  He's selling the fact that these ghost monster, which are very,
• 2:24:00
  very badly realised with ATCGI, they are very badly realised.
• 2:24:04
  But I think Sylvester's kind of falling over really works and
• 2:24:08
  sells it. You've got Ace screaming.
• 2:24:10
  No, she never really screams. So that's heightening the
• 2:24:13
  jeopardy. So I think the 2nd cliffhanger
• 2:24:15
  is loud, fun, thrilling. It's a quintessential
• 2:24:20
  cliffhanger with the companion in peril.
• 2:24:21
  But again, that kind of exemplifies a lot of what's
• 2:24:24
  going on in that story. Loud fun, so I like that.
• 2:24:27
  And then the final cliffhanger is the complete opposite,
• 2:24:30
  because it's really quiet, really menacing.
• 2:24:33
  So you've got Ace and Xuyong in this chalk circle being
• 2:24:36
  threatened by more gain and the Destroyer.
• 2:24:39
  So this is where you get Jean Marshall to absolute campus best
• 2:24:42
  with and you shall become his handmaidens in Hell.
• 2:24:48
  I she's gives a lovely OTT campy performance.
• 2:24:51
  I love her performance all the way through when the Destroyer
• 2:24:54
  begs to be released and she says.
• 2:24:57
  The Ha. She gives a great great.
• 2:25:00
  Performance all the way? Oh, absolutely.
• 2:25:04
  Camp Villainess and you've got her match as well by the
• 2:25:08
  Destroyer, who's definitely one of the shows.
• 2:25:10
  Certainly the classic runs one of the best visual creations of
• 2:25:14
  a monster. I love the fact lots of people
• 2:25:16
  have been known and said oh he's only in the last episode.
• 2:25:18
  I love the fact he's only in the last episode because he's not
• 2:25:22
  overused. We get just enough of him.
• 2:25:25
  I also love the fact that Ace and Shu Young are using chalk to
• 2:25:28
  defend themselves. So we're bringing Magic into
• 2:25:30
  Doctor, which is again a different type of storytelling.
• 2:25:33
  Think back to the demons. And we've got the science versus
• 2:25:36
  magic argument. Well, here we're saying magic
• 2:25:38
  absolutely has a place in Doctor Who, and I think the direction
• 2:25:42
  really works in that scene I love.
• 2:25:43
  It's almost like a stage play with a lighting being just down
• 2:25:46
  on Chase and Shu Young in this in the Circle.
• 2:25:49
  Quite within the chalk. It's not quite within the chalk.
• 2:25:52
  Shame they didn't draw. It after they knew where the
• 2:25:54
  line was going. To go.
• 2:25:55
  But you know, the intent was there.
• 2:25:57
  So I think those 3 cliffhangers really kind of sum up what's
• 2:26:01
  good about it. Crappy direction, great Cam
• 2:26:03
  filling us, fun, loud, thrilling.
• 2:26:06
  And I've not even mentioned the Brigadier or Bambera or Units or
• 2:26:10
  Bessie. I'm going to leave that to you,
• 2:26:11
  but I'm putting it through. Shall we go to the comments?
• 2:26:15
  In the cliffhanger to episode two, he literally goes let's he
• 2:26:20
  throws himself across. The I love, I'm the fuck
• 2:26:24
  Cliffhanger, Lucy McCall says. I love Battlefield, so many
• 2:26:28
  excellent characters. I'd have loved to see more of
• 2:26:31
  unit with Bambera in charge and the Fantasy science crossover
• 2:26:34
  with Interdimensional Night works really well.
• 2:26:37
  Jean Marsh is a fantastic villain on the Doctor Matcheser
• 2:26:40
  and the final lovely touches that the world doesn't need.
• 2:26:43
  Magic swords and unearthly nights to save it as long as it
• 2:26:46
  has Alice Brigadier, Alistair Gordon, Lethbridge, Stewart.
• 2:26:50
  We should leave it there, although we can shot that Yeah.
• 2:26:53
  Fraser, Gregory, Knights and Gums 2 Briggs, Tommy Wimey,
• 2:26:56
  Merlin, Jean Marsh, Nick Coursney, Nick Courtney, Bessie
• 2:27:01
  Bambera and boom, what's not to love?
• 2:27:04
  It's a fun filled action adventure to start the season
• 2:27:06
  that doesn't look, doesn't lose sight of the camp, but doesn't
• 2:27:10
  let it take over. The Destroyer is one of classic
• 2:27:13
  whose best realized monsters. There's some terrifically
• 2:27:15
  atmospheric scenes and some great writing.
• 2:27:18
  I love it. Joe Short says I love
• 2:27:21
  Battlefield. The book is fabulous, too.
• 2:27:23
  Hurrah for Doris and the Brigadier.
• 2:27:27
  Thank you Doctor Wee. All done.
• 2:27:30
  Weakest of the four but still superb. 16 year old me hated it,
• 2:27:34
  but now my opinion has changed. Superb performances from Angela
• 2:27:37
  Bruce, Jean Marsh and Nick Courtney, but the boom is total
• 2:27:41
  cringe. John Arnles There's a smart
• 2:27:43
  inversion of remembrance looking forward rather than backward,
• 2:27:46
  and with Jean Marsh on top form The Brick Confronting the
• 2:27:49
  Destroyer is an all time great scene and I just do the best I
• 2:27:53
  can. Is pretty much the show's
• 2:27:55
  mission statement. Jason Thompson Ah, finally.
• 2:27:59
  I love Battlefield. Angela Bruce is great as
• 2:28:02
  Bambera, and her relationship with Angelyn is sweet without
• 2:28:05
  being overdone or undermining her authority, and it's full of
• 2:28:08
  amazing scenes. Morgan's anger at realizing
• 2:28:11
  they've not properly respected the dead of the world they find
• 2:28:14
  themselves in. Her oh, sorry, that was a long
• 2:28:16
  sentence. And her restoring Elizabeth's
• 2:28:18
  sight as well, and her restoring Elizabeth's sight as payment for
• 2:28:23
  Maudred's drinks immediately after callously vaporizing
• 2:28:27
  Lavelle. James Lark says objectively,
• 2:28:30
  Battlefield is not the best. But what idiot would be
• 2:28:34
  objective about Battlefield? You've got sword fights,
• 2:28:37
  helicopters, car chasers unit, the Brig, the destroyer, Jean
• 2:28:41
  Bloody Marsh. What am I saying?
• 2:28:43
  Objectively, Battlefield is the best.
• 2:28:46
  Strangest in Space podcast in Merlin against all Hope
• 2:28:50
  Battlefield includes one of the best moments in the entire
• 2:28:53
  history of Doctor Who. Sadly, it also includes shame.
• 2:28:57
  Still, you can't have everything.
• 2:28:59
  Much better story than its reputation suggests, though.
• 2:29:02
  Paul, Quinn says, sticks out like a sore thumb.
• 2:29:04
  The opening scene is so misjudged it's almost like a
• 2:29:06
  different programme. Not enough budget.
• 2:29:09
  And yet it has moments of brilliance.
• 2:29:11
  The Brigadiers coder and effective reintroduction of
• 2:29:13
  UNIT. The awesome Bambera the
• 2:29:16
  Destroyer. Easily the best make up since
• 2:29:17
  the Borad and Jean Marsh. Incredible, albeit playing
• 2:29:21
  another character in Doctor Who who's probably incestuous.
• 2:29:25
  Darren lit Randall's the stories with the most issues of the
• 2:29:28
  season and that's why I love it. The core ideas are so strong
• 2:29:31
  that I can go on creative flights of fancy about how I
• 2:29:34
  would have liked to have seen it done, but as it is, it's huge.
• 2:29:38
  Hokey fun. Boom.
• 2:29:41
  Michael Storm says an enjoyable tale, but I'm not sure who's the
• 2:29:43
  best choice to open with. It's a bit of an editing and
• 2:29:46
  plotting mess, possibly because the story doesn't translate to
• 2:29:49
  the 25 minute episode format Very well.
• 2:29:51
  Needed another couple of drafts. Jolo Allen, Ben Aronovich's
• 2:29:56
  lesser story, but excelled with an amazing villain, a truly
• 2:29:59
  international unit, great guest cast and the Brig.
• 2:30:02
  Glad they didn't kill him off, but I think it should have been
• 2:30:05
  left as a three parter and the extra episode given to Ghost
• 2:30:08
  Light. Oh well.
• 2:30:09
  Jake, Orange, Michael said. I recall DWM strongly hinting
• 2:30:13
  that the Brig would die in the story and was upset it might
• 2:30:15
  happen after remembrance. My expectations of Benaronovich
• 2:30:19
  were sky high, and this one didn't blow me away the first
• 2:30:22
  time. Subsequent viewings did.
• 2:30:24
  David Gillespie Pratt The most straightforward of the season,
• 2:30:27
  but so much fun. Jean Marsh and Nicholas Courtney
• 2:30:30
  bring their A game, and while some of the direction is a
• 2:30:32
  little wanting, it doesn't detract from a glorious
• 2:30:35
  adventure and The Destroyer holds up today.
• 2:30:38
  Jim Allenby says one of my favourites.
• 2:30:40
  Always enjoyable and occasionally incredibly daft.
• 2:30:43
  There's an expanded world that remains unexplored.
• 2:30:46
  The target book is even better. James H, Darth Fun, a wicked
• 2:30:51
  witch, the Brig being amazing, and that photo.
• 2:30:54
  Dave Rennie says. So much fun, very quotable.
• 2:30:56
  And forget the boom bit being embarrassing to some.
• 2:30:59
  Not me. There's Jean Marsh, the best of
• 2:31:02
  playing wicked Queens. The Brig is back.
• 2:31:04
  Ace gets the Pal, the Merlin myth and of course the delivery
• 2:31:07
  of archaeological dig. Tony Filer Mint apart from 1
• 2:31:12
  unfortunate Elongated, evil laugh Cliffhanger.
• 2:31:15
  Gavin says underrated. Loved it on original
• 2:31:17
  Transmission, The Brigmore Game, Bambira, oh Shame and the Fab
• 2:31:21
  Destroyer. John, David Great unit story,
• 2:31:25
  great Nick, Courtney. Everyone loves Battlefield.
• 2:31:28
  It's great. Professor Stork Stephen Hawkwin
• 2:31:30
  said. My first McCoy and a contender
• 2:31:32
  for my favorite story. And finally, after the length of
• 2:31:37
  our Bible, LFJ says I don't see the hate for battlefield.
• 2:31:41
  Bambera is great. G Marsh and Nick Courtney
• 2:31:44
  reunited. It's great fun time.
• 2:31:46
  Fan wisdom can eat poop. And on that lovely note, let's
• 2:31:52
  cross to Luke, who? I can see your name on your
• 2:31:55
  screen, says Shame. So obviously you're you're
• 2:31:59
  loving this 10. I I could be swayed either way
• 2:32:04
  on this one, it has to be said. Joe's often said that about you,
• 2:32:08
  Luke. I outside of of Doctor things, I
• 2:32:15
  I generally don't like sort of King Arthur legends or sword
• 2:32:21
  stuff for people with bow and arrows and forests and stuff
• 2:32:24
  like that, but I do it. That sort of fantasy thing is
• 2:32:27
  not my thing but then Battlefield doesn't really fall
• 2:32:31
  into any of the tropes of those. It is a a great comedic romp
• 2:32:37
  from start to finish and it's actually backed even if the
• 2:32:42
  action is is films. Not in the most exciting way but
• 2:32:46
  then it does have it does have their moments constantly that
• 2:32:49
  make it fun. You know they they say the hat
• 2:32:53
  tipping in the in the fight and I it is hard to hate isn't it.
• 2:32:59
  I mean like things a lot of things have changed because
• 2:33:04
  definitely 10 years ago I didn't like this and quite a lot of
• 2:33:08
  other people it felt like didn't like this.
• 2:33:10
  And it does feel like everything has changed.
• 2:33:13
  And it might just be a case of I've watched it a bit more in 10
• 2:33:17
  years and every time I've watched it you might I might
• 2:33:20
  have gone into it thinking I'm going to hate this.
• 2:33:22
  And it's always sort of one move out and I think I will just keep
• 2:33:26
  on growing to like it. So when I say I'm on the edge,
• 2:33:29
  I'm definitely more on the edge of keeping it.
• 2:33:33
  I love the girl power in this. I mean, when Bambera, Doris,
• 2:33:38
  Shoe and Ace are all driving Bessie for a girl's day out in
• 2:33:42
  the town, I want that Big Finish boxer.
• 2:33:46
  Don't give them ideas. Want to see what they do with
• 2:33:49
  that? All the girls have.
• 2:33:52
  It's great, but the starter is obviously Angela Bruce as oh.
• 2:33:56
  Yes, like. As a shame, and it is just one
• 2:34:00
  of those where she talks and I laugh, it doesn't really matter
• 2:34:04
  what she says, but shame is by far a highlight.
• 2:34:09
  She's bombastic, she's fun and brings so oodles of joy to this
• 2:34:14
  story. It's She is great.
• 2:34:17
  And the only other thing that I you can put higher than that as
• 2:34:23
  a recommendation of this story is the Brig himself.
• 2:34:26
  The the original, you might say. This feels like the first time
• 2:34:32
  we've had a proper Brig story since The Terror of the Zygons,
• 2:34:35
  which is weird considering Immortion and dead.
• 2:34:38
  There's literally two of him, but as you turn feels height.
• 2:34:43
  It feels like if somehow feels earned, it feels like it's
• 2:34:47
  leading to a conclusion. Should he have died?
• 2:34:53
  I mean, I don't know. I mean, I'm interested to her.
• 2:34:57
  I mean, I generally think no, but we might have been spurred
• 2:35:00
  of the cyber brick if it happened.
• 2:35:03
  So I mean what genuinely what do you do you think that Briggs
• 2:35:06
  should have died? I.
• 2:35:07
  Think the story's too fun if he dyed it.
• 2:35:09
  I just think the tone would. Be It would have spoiled here, I
• 2:35:11
  think, yeah. Yeah, I do think it would work
• 2:35:14
  either way. I do agree it is I'm.
• 2:35:16
  Not sure you could kill him off and have that McCoy doing his
• 2:35:18
  happy in between the two nights. We would see his later.
• 2:35:22
  Doris still be going out for dinner with the girls?
• 2:35:24
  Yeah, no, you've convinced. Me.
• 2:35:25
  It might explain why Mccoy's so angry at that last speech,
• 2:35:28
  though. One of my favorite things with
• 2:35:31
  the brigade, this is, is just his bickering with more gain
• 2:35:34
  early on, just before she shoots down the helicopter.
• 2:35:38
  That's that's a great she goes. Out goes the day and he goes.
• 2:35:43
  I've had better. Yeah, and it's one of those
• 2:35:46
  where they could, they could just bathe, you know, attack
• 2:35:49
  each other there. But the story's too camp for
• 2:35:51
  that. So we'll wait.
• 2:35:52
  We'll wait a few episodes. I mean it's it's so much fun.
• 2:35:57
  You know it's that sort of trade off.
• 2:35:59
  You could, I could definitely watch this a lot more than the
• 2:36:02
  Curse of Emerick, but the Curse of Emerick really hits when
• 2:36:07
  when, when you want it to. And it there is a constant, I
• 2:36:10
  have a constant battle between rating comedy and rating drama
• 2:36:14
  and feeling like comedy often gets overlooked.
• 2:36:17
  Not saying this is particularly comedic, but you know what I'm
• 2:36:20
  sort of saying? They're they're more sort of fun
• 2:36:25
  stories and fun films and things like that in life get
• 2:36:29
  overlooked, even though it's still a skill to be fun when
• 2:36:32
  drama is always highly regarded. And I think for that reason,
• 2:36:37
  I've got to put Battlefield 3. But Lou, comedy and drama, it's
• 2:36:40
  all a question of timing. Very good.
• 2:36:48
  Daniel. Oh, this is staying in.
• 2:36:51
  I'm sorry, this has got to stay in.
• 2:36:57
  What can we What can I say about Bambera that hasn't already been
• 2:37:00
  said? I think this story is a soft
• 2:37:04
  reboot for unit. I think Andrew Carmel is looking
• 2:37:07
  towards the future. He's planning season 27.
• 2:37:10
  He's sticking two fingers up at Jonathan Powell and go, no, I'm
• 2:37:13
  going to plan it, even if you're not going to make it and he's
• 2:37:15
  looking. This is a story where the two
• 2:37:17
  Brigadiers passed the baton and Carmel clearly wants to emulate
• 2:37:22
  past glories but with a modern twist.
• 2:37:25
  And Angela Bruce is absolutely fantastic.
• 2:37:28
  She's brilliant. It is such a great performance.
• 2:37:31
  She's full of energy, she's full of attitude and she's full of
• 2:37:34
  humour. She's just what you want.
• 2:37:37
  And if you've ever seen the The Myth Makers interview with with
• 2:37:40
  Angela Bruce that they do at the at the the Late where they film
• 2:37:43
  Battlefield with her being interviewed with Sophie
• 2:37:46
  Eldridge, she is. Oh, she's just a wonderful
• 2:37:49
  person and it's just such a crying shame that we never got
• 2:37:52
  another story or another series of stories with her and UNIT
• 2:37:56
  because I think that's what he's, that's what Carmel is
• 2:37:59
  aiming for. And I think this is, this isn't
• 2:38:01
  where the where Carmel is sort of looking at the past, but he's
• 2:38:05
  not copying the past he's taking, he's cherry picking bits
• 2:38:08
  of the past and he's giving them a modern twist.
• 2:38:11
  And I think this is where UNIT finally is not just a Brigadier,
• 2:38:15
  a captain and A and a Sergeant, it's it's a proper military
• 2:38:20
  organization. And yes, the the, the action
• 2:38:24
  sequences are clunky, but I think the battle sequence, the
• 2:38:27
  actual battlefield sequence in Part 4, when you consider that
• 2:38:31
  it's not a huge budget, actually works really well.
• 2:38:34
  There are some good stunts, there's smoke, there's action,
• 2:38:37
  there's dead bodies everywhere. And probably those dead bodies
• 2:38:41
  that are lying on the ground are in 2 seconds later firing guns.
• 2:38:44
  So who cares? It's a really, really
• 2:38:49
  action-packed story. People complain about the about
• 2:38:53
  Anselin flying through the air. It's like something out of Monty
• 2:38:55
  Python. They clearly have not watched
• 2:38:57
  Monty Python because there's not, as far as I'm concerned
• 2:38:59
  there's nothing like that Monty Python.
• 2:39:01
  So they're talking absolute nonsense.
• 2:39:04
  Let's talk about the Brigadier. As you say, the original he's
• 2:39:08
  world weary, but he's not an idiot.
• 2:39:10
  He's got a sense of humor. He's got a sense of honour.
• 2:39:12
  He's smart, he's brave. And he doesn't take any nonsense
• 2:39:15
  from the Doctor. The way he threatens Mordred and
• 2:39:18
  tells Morgan to leave my world or your your son dies.
• 2:39:22
  This is the Brigadier that we should have seen in season 9 and
• 2:39:27
  10, but we got a comedy buffoon idiot, Colonel Blimp type idiot
• 2:39:32
  who do ESESP stands for Extrasensory perception.
• 2:39:36
  Oh, I didn't know that until the doctors.
• 2:39:38
  Oh, give me strength. He's and Nicholas Courtney
• 2:39:41
  clearly sees this and he gives his best performance as the
• 2:39:45
  Brigadier since I would say about maybe possibly Terror, the
• 2:39:49
  Zygons, but I'd say Day of the Daleks maybe, maybe the Green
• 2:39:53
  Death, I don't know. But yeah he's he's brilliant in
• 2:39:56
  this and the again the sort of the the contrast between him and
• 2:40:01
  the Doctor. I think it works better here
• 2:40:03
  with the sort of slightly shambolic anti authoritarian 7th
• 2:40:08
  Doctor compared to the sort of very flamboyant.
• 2:40:12
  Slightly anti authoritarian, but also quite sort of
• 2:40:15
  establishment. 3rd doctor and I think I would have loved to have
• 2:40:19
  seen another story with with the 7th doctor in the Brigadier Jean
• 2:40:22
  Marsh. Yes, we've all said she's
• 2:40:24
  brilliant, poor woman, she's a really nice woman.
• 2:40:26
  And yet throughout the 1980s she kept keeps getting carved
• 2:40:29
  witches, I mean, but that the reason why is because she's so
• 2:40:33
  good at them. But Morgan is a character.
• 2:40:36
  She's not just evil for evil sake.
• 2:40:39
  And I love that scene where, you know, she casually, casually
• 2:40:43
  blasts Lavelle into smithereens and then there's a sense of
• 2:40:48
  honour. So she gives Elizabeth her sight
• 2:40:51
  back. It's a very, very powerful scene
• 2:40:54
  and also very well scored by Kef McCulloch.
• 2:40:57
  It's very, it's very atmospheric.
• 2:40:59
  And that scene, those scenes set in the the pub, yes, it's a
• 2:41:03
  studio set, but it's really well done.
• 2:41:05
  And I yeah, and I love that bit. The opening sequence of Brig and
• 2:41:11
  the Brig and and Doris in the in the back, in the garden centre.
• 2:41:16
  OK, it's about a minute, but it's still less than that
• 2:41:19
  interminable opening to the to the Leisure Hive.
• 2:41:21
  And I love the Leisure Hive, but that opening is just dreadful.
• 2:41:28
  The The The Destroyer is a fantastic monster.
• 2:41:31
  But he's a fantastic monster that doesn't really get to do
• 2:41:33
  much and it's the same guy who plays for Shinin in Curse of
• 2:41:38
  Fenerick isn't he? I I if they'd had the budget
• 2:41:44
  that that Destroyer. I mean it's going back to you
• 2:41:47
  know wishing the curse of Fenerick was was filmed in in at
• 2:41:51
  night rather than you know day for night or with lots of fog
• 2:41:54
  and sunshine. If they'd have had the the idea
• 2:41:57
  of doing the, you know, maybe as soon as his chain shattered he
• 2:42:00
  suddenly grew into this massive sort of King Kong size destroyer
• 2:42:05
  of worlds as opposed to being just this man sized monster with
• 2:42:10
  horns and and a blue face. They obviously had a lot of blue
• 2:42:12
  paint for that season with because he was that blue.
• 2:42:18
  Yeah, there are. You could be really picky and
• 2:42:22
  say there's too many characters because Pat and Elizabeth and
• 2:42:26
  Walmsley are just driven off in a Jeep in halfway through
• 2:42:30
  episode 3 because the writer can't think of anything else to
• 2:42:32
  do with them. But yeah, again, we can
• 2:42:37
  highlight Aces immaturity with the boom sequence and also how
• 2:42:46
  she's that bit in the chalk circle where she turns on Xiao
• 2:42:50
  Young and starts the the racist language.
• 2:42:54
  Very uncomfortable, but also unfortunately quite believable
• 2:42:58
  in somebody quite so young some of the performances.
• 2:43:02
  I I don't like the guy who plays Mordred, but I think that's
• 2:43:06
  rather the point. He's he's an arrogant twerp and
• 2:43:09
  you're not supposed to like him. I the the relationship between
• 2:43:15
  Bambera and Ansley, it's it's good.
• 2:43:18
  It's good fun. It's quite nice.
• 2:43:20
  But I give it three weeks because he's far too much in
• 2:43:22
  love with himself to love anyone else.
• 2:43:26
  But yeah, it's got to stay because it is such fun.
• 2:43:28
  Yes, some some of the directing isn't great, but who cares when
• 2:43:32
  it's this fun? Joe.
• 2:43:36
  Yeah, I learned how to chill the fuck out watching Battlefield.
• 2:43:41
  It was one of the biggest lessons that I learn and seduced
• 2:43:45
  to the ways of. Mark Rowling is my partner, the
• 2:43:47
  most seductive man ever when it comes to Doctor Who because he
• 2:43:51
  just has a way of taking his stories.
• 2:43:53
  Planet of the Daleks, Android Invasion, the chase stories that
• 2:43:57
  I've always struggled with and just making me absolutely love
• 2:44:01
  them. And this is insane fun, isn't
• 2:44:04
  it? And I think it's mostly the
• 2:44:06
  characters that are great in this that just make this so much
• 2:44:09
  fun. And Bearer, Ansel Mordred,
• 2:44:12
  Morgan, Doris Xiao, Young, Pete, Elizabeth.
• 2:44:15
  They're all great all night and and they're just really great to
• 2:44:19
  be around. I don't really care what they're
• 2:44:21
  doing, if I'm honest. They're sitting around in a pub
• 2:44:23
  garden, you know, hanging around in a field, who cares?
• 2:44:27
  They're just so much fun. And the the sort of the quotable
• 2:44:33
  dialogue quotient in this story, it's.
• 2:44:36
  I mean I've written down a few lines an earthquake in England.
• 2:44:40
  I've written down your favorite camp classic and become his
• 2:44:44
  handmaids in. In hell.
• 2:44:48
  So you married or what? I love that line.
• 2:44:51
  Does it run on petrol or steam? Essay about Bessie.
• 2:44:56
  The child looks up to the sky, his eyes turned to cinders.
• 2:45:00
  Oh, it's a bit overblown, but it's very, very quotable.
• 2:45:03
  I think it's a really good script.
• 2:45:05
  This. I'll tell you who needs to chill
• 2:45:06
  the the fuck out. That's Ben Aronovich and Andrew
• 2:45:08
  Carmel, who are both on the commentary track, the
• 2:45:12
  battlefield and pulling it to pieces every single scene, the
• 2:45:17
  plotting, the dialogue, the direction ever.
• 2:45:20
  You got Angela Bruce halfway through the story goes, guys,
• 2:45:22
  will you shut up? This was one of the best jobs I
• 2:45:26
  ever had. I mean, she's always at a
• 2:45:28
  phantom convention, so she's still making a bit of money out
• 2:45:31
  of it. No, no, it's it's really, really
• 2:45:33
  fun. It's really fast pace.
• 2:45:35
  It is appallingly directed. This was originally going to be
• 2:45:38
  handed to Graham Harper and it would have been a completely
• 2:45:41
  different beast. I think just as fun, but
• 2:45:44
  technically so much more competent than it actually is.
• 2:45:48
  I love how much of it's on location as well.
• 2:45:50
  He's a little sunny, like so much of the Sylvester McCoy era
• 2:45:53
  is. I know I said the opposite,
• 2:45:55
  Incursive Ben Rick, but that's a Horror Story and this is just
• 2:45:59
  junk, isn't it? And I love it.
• 2:46:02
  Kept Mccullough's sort of gay disco music that's playing
• 2:46:05
  throughout this, you know, I think.
• 2:46:08
  His. Music's really, really fun and
• 2:46:11
  it comes in for a bad rap. And I don't really think he does
• 2:46:15
  anything atmospherically, but he knows how to give it energy and
• 2:46:18
  pace and momentum. And that's what this story needs
• 2:46:21
  really, isn't it? Angela Bruce, you've all said
• 2:46:25
  it. She is a goddess.
• 2:46:27
  She's amazing. I will once again just say about
• 2:46:29
  the time I met her at the convention and she went walking
• 2:46:33
  through the gardens as if she was absolutely drunk and she
• 2:46:36
  wasn't. And she said to somebody, it was
• 2:46:38
  so funny. She goes, I did not meet you at
• 2:46:41
  the other convention and they went, oh, yes, yeah, I did,
• 2:46:45
  yeah. And since then I've had a few
• 2:46:47
  problems. She goes, I didn't offer your
• 2:46:48
  fucking life story laugh, all right?
• 2:46:50
  She's so naughty in real life and she brings that sort of to
• 2:46:55
  the character. That bit where she's fighting
• 2:46:56
  with Ansel in you know, was oh don't worry about them.
• 2:46:59
  They're just establishing their credentials, you know that.
• 2:47:03
  You could just see her kicking the shit out, whichever, and.
• 2:47:04
  That's really, that's a really well directed scene because you
• 2:47:07
  don't actually focus on the fight, you're focusing on the
• 2:47:09
  doctor coming forward. So later on, you know when
• 2:47:11
  they're sort of jumping on trampolines over the camera and
• 2:47:14
  things like that, but you've got really interesting relationships
• 2:47:18
  here as well. I think the a shall young
• 2:47:20
  relationship had legs and actually probably could have
• 2:47:22
  continued, continues Bambera and Ansley.
• 2:47:26
  And that is actually floating and fun in a way that it's sexy
• 2:47:33
  and like they're a sexy couple, you know, and you don't see many
• 2:47:36
  of them in Doctor Who, the Brigadier and Doris.
• 2:47:39
  That's a lovely relationship. When you know the sexy couple.
• 2:47:42
  Oh, gorgeous beyond that bushes in the garden center.
• 2:47:46
  But when you see. You watch Angela Douglas and
• 2:47:50
  carry on. Follow that camel, She's.
• 2:47:52
  She's no, she's gorgeous in this.
• 2:47:54
  Oh, it's usually great going into Bessie at the end.
• 2:47:56
  Have something really delicious made for.
• 2:47:58
  Us when we get home. Right.
• 2:48:02
  I think the Doctor and Ace are really fun in this as well.
• 2:48:05
  What is it? Exotic alien swords are
• 2:48:07
  difficult to come by. Aces are rare, you know.
• 2:48:11
  It's it's that sort of magic that's there between the two of
• 2:48:14
  them. I don't really write over them
• 2:48:16
  as actors, but they're casually. You you kept that one quiet?
• 2:48:21
  Yeah, and by the way, Joe, how can you praise Angela Douglas in
• 2:48:23
  Battlefield, who only has a spit of a role when you slagged off
• 2:48:26
  Anne Reed and cursor femrick, who?
• 2:48:28
  Also has a smallish role. That's.
• 2:48:30
  True. Yeah.
• 2:48:31
  Don't think Angela Douglas has given a particularly great
• 2:48:33
  performance here. That's why she doesn't say she
• 2:48:35
  hasn't got to do anything. She's charismatic.
• 2:48:38
  She's very, yeah, she's got. She's great.
• 2:48:41
  At the break was the the chemistry between Sylvester
• 2:48:44
  McCoy and Sophie Aldridge is undeniable.
• 2:48:47
  And when they lean into that and let them have fun, all the crazy
• 2:48:50
  shit going up that stairs with the fairy lights and oh, it's
• 2:48:54
  it's really, really really really fun.
• 2:48:56
  Yeah, terrible director. Lots of fun lines.
• 2:48:59
  Lots of energy. Lots of action.
• 2:49:01
  A great monster. 2 Brigadiers 01 more do you want?
• 2:49:06
  Yeah. Come on Ansley, looks like we
• 2:49:08
  get the deck chair. I mean, every lines great.
• 2:49:11
  It's going through. Crikey So we're coming up to
• 2:49:14
  three hours on four episodes, what helps us when we do another
• 2:49:19
  ten episode series. So we've only kicked one out
• 2:49:23
  foolishly, which was survival. So we're into round two.
• 2:49:26
  We've got three stories. The first one's really going to
• 2:49:30
  swing it, so let's head in. I'm going to spin the random.
• 2:49:33
  House hang on cap music. Music and we have ghost light
• 2:49:42
  against the curse of. Them, oh, Battlefield's in the
• 2:49:44
  final. Go slide, go slide, baby.
• 2:49:49
  The best story of the era? Well, I've got to go.
• 2:49:52
  Curse of Emerick. Best story of the era?
• 2:49:58
  Well, I'm going for, yeah, the one that I always get back to
• 2:50:03
  and is one of the best stories of the classic gear Go slide.
• 2:50:10
  You know, Daniel gave a very impassioned defense at Ghost
• 2:50:13
  Slide, didn't he? So I am.
• 2:50:16
  I'm so tempted to do the Barry Cry joke with I'm just, I'm just
• 2:50:19
  playing with you. But the listeners can't see
• 2:50:21
  that. I'm going to go for Ghost Light.
• 2:50:26
  Yes, I. Resign.
• 2:50:28
  Immediately. We never go down the predictable
• 2:50:33
  path here. I'm strictly.
• 2:50:39
  Is I just. I can't even speak anymore. 3rd
• 2:50:42
  place, third place. Thanks for.
• 2:50:45
  Robin and Luke, right? Belongs.
• 2:50:49
  Yeah. So we have Ghost Light versus
• 2:50:51
  Battle. You couldn't really find two.
• 2:50:53
  More. Diametrically is good.
• 2:50:56
  Yet now one follows the other. It simplifies the aces, doesn't
• 2:51:00
  it? Doesn't it just so Battlefield
• 2:51:03
  or Ghost Light? Let's start with our guests.
• 2:51:04
  Let's start with oh gosh. I'm so, I'm so desperate.
• 2:51:13
  No, I'm going to have to, I'm going to say toss a coin.
• 2:51:17
  It is head versus heart, isn't it?
• 2:51:22
  Because Head says Ghost Light, Heart says Battlefield, but
• 2:51:25
  Heart also says Ghost Light 2 Angela Bruce.
• 2:51:33
  She's so brilliant in Battlefield and I.
• 2:51:37
  But then you've got Sylvia Sims in Ghost Light.
• 2:51:43
  Do you know what this reminds me of when I bought my wife's
• 2:51:46
  engagement ring? We we bought the engagement ring
• 2:51:49
  in 5 minutes and then spent half an hour deciding what we have
• 2:51:52
  for tea. I marched.
• 2:51:56
  My important decision. Ghost Light.
• 2:52:00
  No. Can I go next?
• 2:52:02
  I'm not mad when I say this because at the end of a long day
• 2:52:09
  I would not come home and put ghosts lie on.
• 2:52:13
  Even though I think it is a superior story, I do think
• 2:52:17
  Battlefield has more re watchability about it and I have
• 2:52:21
  a better time with it. So I'm going to say Battlefield.
• 2:52:26
  I would say the flip side of that is, and my wife hasn't
• 2:52:29
  really watched too much classic who.
• 2:52:33
  But if I was to choose to watch to to her to watch some one of
• 2:52:37
  one of those two stories, I think I would choose Ghost
• 2:52:39
  Light. Because I think Battlefield
• 2:52:41
  contains too many elements that are a bit clunky and would make
• 2:52:44
  her rise, raise her eyebrows and go, you know what, I'm up, I'm
• 2:52:47
  going off to bed. So I think she.
• 2:52:48
  Yeah. I'm going to flip that because
• 2:52:51
  if my over half had any say, he'd be putting on Battlefield
• 2:52:55
  any day of the week. So it's one.
• 2:53:00
  Each. I think there's a point where we
• 2:53:05
  have to stop giving Battlefield so much respect.
• 2:53:12
  I. Seriously had no idea where that
• 2:53:14
  sentence was going. As much as I think it's a lot of
• 2:53:18
  fun, it's it's now getting to ridiculous levels.
• 2:53:27
  I mean, it's going to be second or first ghosts.
• 2:53:30
  Like is possibly the the most clever, complex and but
• 2:53:39
  thrilling a watch the the classic Dog Two does, especially
• 2:53:43
  in the 80s, and it's got so much charming atmosphere about it.
• 2:53:48
  Whereas yeah, Battlefield has boom, boom, explosions and and a
• 2:53:53
  lot of funny lines, which I totally get, but it's got to be
• 2:53:58
  ghost like for me. Oh God, I've got the casting
• 2:54:02
  vote or the tie. It's the curse of Emrick.
• 2:54:09
  Log in the pin in the. Fools.
• 2:54:11
  Fools. It got the bronze.
• 2:54:14
  Come on. A little tear for the survival.
• 2:54:16
  Yeah, but the bronze in a four story season ain't great.
• 2:54:23
  It's got to be Ghost Light, it's got.
• 2:54:26
  To be ghost. Light.
• 2:54:27
  Yeah. It's just a beautiful piece of
• 2:54:29
  work. Yeah, I just thought it would be
• 2:54:32
  hilarious if Battlefield didn't we.
• 2:54:36
  Well, Mark would have been very pleased.
• 2:54:37
  You'd get some plays. Well.
• 2:54:40
  We get those anyway. I if it if it's been Fenerick
• 2:54:46
  and Battlefield, I really don't know which way I would have gone
• 2:54:49
  with that. But I really, really attached to
• 2:54:52
  Ghost. Like what?
• 2:54:53
  If it had been Fenerick and Ghost like.
• 2:54:55
  Oh, Ghost Light, obviously. Yeah.
• 2:54:58
  I think it's great, isn't it it? Is it is great but but but ghost
• 2:55:03
  light I think is greater. Well, we've just proved that
• 2:55:07
  fact and we have just knighted Ghost Light as the winner of the
• 2:55:11
  season 20. 7. And we've we've sent Kirsten
• 2:55:16
  Benwick back to Java. Stop stopping it.
• 2:55:18
  Isn't it? I'll be going on this.
• 2:55:21
  Morning. And survival didn't survive very
• 2:55:25
  long at all. No, we cancelled it.
• 2:55:28
  There's some nice things said about it we did.
• 2:55:31
  Well, yes. Again, we are completely at odds
• 2:55:32
  with the DWM poll, which put Fenrick above Survival, above
• 2:55:37
  Ghost slides above Battlefield. So we've pretty much changed the
• 2:55:41
  running order. Who?
• 2:55:41
  Does that reads not true magazines these days?
• 2:55:44
  Come on now, there's a lot of trash.
• 2:55:47
  So vality project for the editor.
• 2:55:50
  That's all it is these days. So all of it remains is to thank
• 2:55:56
  our guests. Gentlemen, would you like to
• 2:55:58
  point people in any direction or promote anything, Luke?
• 2:56:02
  Oh well, I'm just a difficult podcast.
• 2:56:07
  I lost Under Score Gallifrey on Twitter and if you ask me on
• 2:56:12
  your podcast, I'll probably say yes.
• 2:56:14
  I like talking about, oh, and yeah, I like talking about on
• 2:56:20
  Twitter and it's great. It was great to be on.
• 2:56:22
  Thank you. Recently.
• 2:56:24
  Recently. Go and listen to the hamster,
• 2:56:27
  Mind warp waters of Mars. Heaven sent, Hell bent.
• 2:56:32
  What else have we done recently? Spy?
• 2:56:34
  The ones you've almost persuade me persuaded me to go and watch
• 2:56:38
  Hell Bent again. Almost.
• 2:56:41
  I've been turned to the wicked ways of that.
• 2:56:42
  Just just Daniel. Hold.
• 2:56:44
  Hold your fire on that thought for a minute, Daniel.
• 2:56:47
  Where can people find you? I'm on Twitter at Daniel Night
• 2:56:51
  73, and I've been, yes, pouring myself around podcasts,
• 2:56:56
  particularly of the doctor variety.
• 2:57:00
  So yeah, I've I've don't post as much as I should maybe but I do
• 2:57:05
  have a blog called Days, Days Like Crazy Paving, which is
• 2:57:08
  another wonderful Sylvester McCoy quote.
• 2:57:11
  And I really should sort of maybe knuckle down and do a few
• 2:57:13
  more posts on that if if you can bear the witterings of a 50 year
• 2:57:19
  old Doctor Who fan. Well, we've thoroughly enjoyed
• 2:57:22
  having both of you on tonight. Thank you very much indeed.
• 2:57:26
  Particularly Doctor Who podcast. What other podcast do you do
• 2:57:29
  then? Who may?
• 2:57:30
  Yeah, whilst you're talking about whoring, Come on.
• 2:57:38
  Worms. I haven't done any Doctor Who.
• 2:57:42
  I haven't done any Doctor Who, other other podcasters and
• 2:57:44
  Doctor Who podcasts. You're right there.
• 2:57:46
  No, I'm. Not sure there is if I'm honest.
• 2:57:50
  Not, not once. I'd be able to talk on so
• 2:57:53
  authoritarian author authoritatively if I could say
• 2:57:57
  it, that is. Got to say, though, it's been
• 2:57:59
  rather charming to spend the evening with two such handsome
• 2:58:02
  gentlemen as yourselves. Oh, Joe, what a treat.
• 2:58:07
  Well, next episode, Joe, we God help us, we are off to series 9,
• 2:58:14
  yes? Yes.
• 2:58:16
  Yes. I.
• 2:58:18
  Am I am dreading Season 9 Series 9?
• 2:58:22
  You're going to put them all in the bin, aren't you, Joe?
• 2:58:23
  I can't. I can't.
• 2:58:25
  Do it. I've already decided it's free
• 2:58:27
  to stay in. I'm going to be drowned out by
• 2:58:30
  the voice of Joe Ford next episodes.
• 2:58:32
  I'll try and put nine through. Joe tries to bin nine, yeah.
• 2:58:36
  So you'll get complaints if you put the first two episodes
• 2:58:39
  through. I will just say that.
• 2:58:41
  Oh, OK. Don't worry.
• 2:58:42
  I've got no worries about that one.
• 2:58:46
  Not me, though. I'm I'm keeping my power to dry
• 2:58:47
  on that one. You did say it was the weakest
• 2:58:50
  of the first ten seasons. Yes, I didn't mean there.
• 2:58:56
  Isn't. I would say it's the weakest of
• 2:58:58
  the first thirteen seasons. Oh, no, no, no.
• 2:59:01
  Well, they say we we dropped down a severe Cliff.
• 2:59:05
  Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, we've already started
• 2:59:09
  the arguments on serious night, and we're not even on that.
• 2:59:12
  We'll see you back next time then, guys.
• 2:59:14
  That's probably going to be the most divisive episode yet, but
• 2:59:17
  that's for a fortnight's time, so we've rounded off tonight.
• 2:59:21
  All that remains for us to say is thank you and good night.
• 2:59:25
  And. Good.
• 2:59:30
  Night the.