Latest / NDV Podcast: Neurodiverse Voices Connect / Building Resilience Through Neurodiversity: Nicole on Dyslexia and Mental Health

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Building Resilience Through Neurodiversity: Nicole on Dyslexia and Mental Health · NDV Podcast: Neurodiverse Voices Connect

0:14
Welcome back to the Neuro Diverse Voices podcast and hello
0:19
season 4. I'm your host, Andrea Costa, and
0:24
I'm so grateful to have you on that side.
0:27
Over the past three seasons we've shared honest, powerful,
0:31
real stories from neuro divergent people, their
0:34
families, educators and mental health researchers, and together
0:39
we've been part of a growing movement towards understanding,
0:44
acceptance and embracing difference.
0:49
This isn't we are going even deeper.
0:52
We will be. Exploring late diagnosis,
0:56
masking, burnout, menopause, mental health, and how neural
1:01
divergent intersects with identity, culture, and lived
1:07
experience. You'll hear from creative minds,
1:11
parents, and most importantly from neurodivergent people
1:16
themselves in all their complexity and brilliance.
1:21
So whether you've been with us from the very beginning or this
1:26
is your first time listening or watching, welcome This space is
1:32
for you. Let's begin season 4 of the
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Neuro Diverse Voices podcast. Hello everyone, we are back with
1:46
another episode of Season 4 of the Neuro Diverse Voices
1:49
podcast. Another special guest today.
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She has lived experience of dyslexia.
1:56
She has previous of previous experience as a social worker
2:00
and mental health practice practitioner and she's currently
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a trainee psychodynamic counsellor.
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She's also the patient and family care engagement
2:11
coordinator at Oxford, which here comes.
2:14
Hi, Nicole. Hi, nice to be here today,
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Andrea. Thank you so much for being here
2:20
today and to Share your story with with all of us at the Neuro
2:26
Diverse Voices podcast. So let's start at the beginning
2:30
and can you share a little bit more?
2:33
Not a little bit more because you haven't shared anything.
2:35
Can you share a little bit about who you are and now your journey
2:41
has been both personally and professionally so far?
2:45
Yeah, definitely. So I, I think I described myself
2:48
as having a bit of a whirlwind of a journey, some really
2:52
amazing successes that I will talk to and some real hardship
2:55
and struggles at times. Especially having dyslexia and
2:59
trying to do an academic degree and trying to do an academic job
3:03
where I'm speaking to families and having to write very
3:08
obviously medical reports almost.
3:10
So it has been a whirlwind. But I credit my dyslexia in some
3:14
ways. It's helped me build rapport
3:16
with what I do for a living and it's made me an incredibly hard
3:20
worker too. Yeah, that sounds equally
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challenging and fulfilling as well.
3:30
Yeah. So when and how did you first
3:33
realise that you were dyslexic and what were the yearly signs
3:38
or experiences? Yeah, so when I was in school, I
3:43
started to really struggle with my reading and I kept getting
3:46
reports at parents evening that I was like 5 years behind my
3:49
reading age. And obviously back then it's, it
3:53
sounds silly, isn't it? I'm 27 and I'm saying back then,
3:56
but it, it, it wasn't as well known as it is today.
4:00
Nora Divergent wasn't really in the public media or my parents
4:04
weren't really aware of it when their generation.
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So my mum and dad was obviously really concerned, like why can't
4:10
she seem to read? Why couldn't she do this?
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And I was really, really fortunate that I will give her a
4:17
shout out. A primary school teacher called
4:19
Miss Andrews picked it up because she was actually
4:21
training to be a diagnostic assessor for dyslexia.
4:26
But she was a trainee obviously, so couldn't give me a formal
4:28
diagnosis. But she picked it up and started
4:31
sort of, I think I became her little case study, to be honest,
4:35
back. But I was incredibly grateful
4:37
for her. And I think that was kind of the
4:39
first early sort signs, I suppose in in primary school.
4:44
And then just continued to kind of struggle throughout my
4:47
academic experience really with reading and writing, in
4:49
particular, getting my words onto paper and being able to
4:52
read words off paper and process them.
4:55
And that was that was the early signs.
4:57
So I am really grateful to Miss Andrews for kind of starting to
5:01
pick that out. Yeah, there's always or not
5:05
always, but I hear many cases of, of Miss Andrews in, in our
5:09
lives who helps. And it's the proof that you
5:12
don't really need the child to have a diagnosis to, to actually
5:16
provide that support. You just need to be curious and,
5:19
and try to understand. So I'm very glad you had Miss
5:21
Andrews in your journey at the beginning of, of the journey.
5:25
I think that that made a huge difference.
5:29
So growing up, how was the experience of being dyslexic?
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So you you mentioned school already, but how about and also
5:39
your parents not being aware? Because back in the day the
5:42
awareness was not as as great as it is these days.
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But what about social settings? How?
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How challenging has it been for you?
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Yeah, it was really challenging. I felt very well, I guess I felt
5:54
compared and I that might have been myself doing that, but also
5:58
putting being put in bottom sets all the time time, you know, for
6:01
different reasons, because I struggled with my learning and
6:04
needed to process things slower. I think socially my self esteem
6:07
was incredibly knocked. I felt stupid and I think
6:12
because I didn't understand, although yes, a young age, these
6:15
concepts or ideas were being thrown around about dyslexia.
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I don't really know what that meant and nobody was really
6:20
explaining that to me. And I was working so hard.
6:24
I was coming home doing extra tutoring.
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I was going into school early to kind of try and get some, like
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it was like the tic tac toe books.
6:32
I don't know if anybody remembers them, but the sound
6:33
you, when you sound out word you go.
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And it just didn't help. And I think I was burning myself
6:40
out quite a lot socially as well, because then I didn't
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really have the energy, you know, to do extra things.
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And I felt I had to do all my homework because the short term
6:48
memory retained with dyslexia is really difficult.
6:50
I can remember something from years ago, but not kind of from
6:54
yesterday. And I think so I would did my
6:56
homework the second I got it because I was so scared I'd
6:59
forget what I needed to do and the processing of what I needed
7:02
to do. So I didn't really socialise.
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I really, especially in my GCSESI don't, I think I
7:08
attribute it not really to having much of an adolescence
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because I just knew I had to work hard.
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And I guess I was one of the fortunate ones that I knew that
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and I saw so many of my friends around me just give up.
7:19
And it was then I put in my notes for this.
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I became kind of like a mini TA in the school.
7:24
And I remember teachers saying that to me because I was in all
7:26
the bottom sets and I was trying to help my peers.
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But I think that also didn't help because I took on quite an
7:31
adult role at a young age when I was meant to be an adolescent.
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So socially it was incredibly hard.
7:37
And I think although, yes, definitely, you know, like you
7:40
said with Miss Andrews, I didn't need my diagnosis, but I didn't
7:44
need an explanation of my needs. And that would have been really
7:47
helpful in a child friendly way to understand why I was
7:51
struggling so much because my friends would get a stars
7:53
without studying. And I would be like, well, I've
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spent 6-7 hours a week really sitting at a dining table with
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my dad in floods of tears and still can't, you know, get this.
8:06
And I think I do need to attribute my dad from a social
8:10
and home perspective. Bless him.
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He read everything. He proof read all my college
8:15
coursework, all of my university essays, and gently.
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Without him, I don't think I would have been able to pass as
8:22
easily as I did. You know, he was there and he
8:24
was such a rock. But there was definitely in the
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early stages of that. It really affected mine and my
8:30
dad's relationship because he was the parent that was forcing
8:32
me to sit down at the dining table and read.
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And I would just be in tears and he wouldn't get it because he's
8:36
not dyslexic. And he would be like, why can't
8:39
you do this? And I'd be like, I don't know.
8:43
So now I can reflect and say he's an amazing man for putting
8:46
up with that and doing it and pushing me to do it.
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But at the time, I think I saw dad as the, oh, he's going to
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force me to set table. It's going to be so stressful.
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We're going to get in a fight. And I don't want that, you know,
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I don't want to fight with my dad.
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So I think it just encroaches on all of those parts that
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education, home and socially for young people.
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And I see it a lot in my work as well.
9:07
Yeah, and I think it shows that lack of awareness doesn't help
9:11
in any way and it has a huge negative impact on on your
9:15
mental well-being as well. Can we delve a bit more into
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dyslexia? Because, you know, neural
9:23
divergent is such a huge spectrum and I think even though
9:31
we are talking a lot more about dyslexia, autism and ADHD seem
9:34
to kind of be the, the, the predominant topics.
9:40
So with, with yourself, what, what, what exactly were well, I
9:46
don't like to call them symptoms, but at the end of the
9:49
day, they are symptoms, right? So what can you tell us a bit
9:53
more about that and specific, be a bit more specific of how we
9:57
know that you had difficulty reading.
9:58
You always had to work harder, but can you give us more
10:01
examples of? Yeah, definitely.
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Being dyslexic can be like, and you know, for everyone to be
10:07
aware that I, I think it's exactly the same as with
10:10
autistic people. When you meet one autistic
10:12
person, you meet only one autistic person.
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So it's very individual. Yeah.
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So yeah, I always introduce it as my dyslexic brain or my
10:19
dyslexia because I know it's different for other people.
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But my dyslexia transforms in the concept that I really
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struggle to read what's on paper and process.
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So I can read the actual words, but can't process what in the
10:32
sentence, what that's actually trying to say to me.
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So I will read it and I can go. The cat sat on the mat.
10:39
But putting that together took longer.
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Like that was obviously a very basic sentence, but actually
10:44
knowing what that was trying to put forward to me and processing
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that information. Like it was like I described my
10:49
brain like it was like buffering, like I had a really
10:50
slow Internet connection. The other thing that it was
10:54
really hard for me was explaining myself.
10:57
So you've just heard me do it there.
10:58
I explain everything visually or like metaphor.
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So I just said it's like my brain was buffering like the
11:03
Internet. I really struggle to get my
11:05
words out and I don't really know how to explain myself.
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So I always rely on metaphors and visual explanation,
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explanations of things. My brain works in photos and
11:15
imagery, it doesn't work in words.
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And so the other thing is, is with spelling, I couldn't break
11:22
down words. So if I'd never seen a word
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before, I would not have any comprehension of knowing how to
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read that and trying to teach me how to read it through
11:31
frenetically breaking it down just doesn't make sense to me
11:34
whatsoever. It I needed to hear somebody say
11:36
it and then my brain would remember that's what that sound
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like and I would visually remember the photo of that word
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and that's what it's spelt like. So it's took me years to
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obviously then build up a catalog of files of what each
11:48
individual word looks like. And it's really hilarious now
11:51
because I have a military partner and he uses the phonetic
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alphabet. And that is like my worst
11:55
nightmare because he'll say alpha.
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And then I'm like, I'm now seeing visually what alpha looks
12:00
like. That's I'm not seeing an A.
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I'm seeing the whole word alpha. I can't like that doesn't help
12:04
me spell apple. I'm really sorry.
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You need to just say apple. And I can see visually the word
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in front of me. And sometimes I have to write it
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down to see it. And it's really great because
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now obviously I've had 27 years of experience when I'm writing
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stuff at work, I can, if I don't spell something immediately
12:20
correctly, when I click on autocorrect, I can visually say,
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oh, no, that one's the right word.
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That that I know that one's the right word.
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But that does become hard when you have all the different
12:28
wheres and yours and things like that.
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Because it's like, OK, now grammatically, you know,
12:33
visually that's the right word. But grammatically what one fits
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like I haven't, I have no idea. Grammar is still at 27 lost on
12:42
me. And that's where now the lovely
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AI has been a lovely tool for me in, in that world is that I can
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write something and I can say, can you make this grammatically
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correct? Because visually I don't
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understand it. I can't comprehend it.
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I just it, there's no visual cue for grammar.
13:00
It's an auditory cue. And my brain doesn't work that
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way. So it's like, I don't know where
13:04
my natural full stops and commas fall.
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Like I don't like that doesn't make sense.
13:08
I don't understand paragraphing. And that's still something
13:11
that's never really been taught to me or in a way that I can
13:15
actually say I can explain it. And that's still at 27.
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But I guess we are moving into a world that hopefully I can be
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helped with software with that a little bit more.
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So I hope that helped. Absolutely.
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I think that's, that's very helpful, at least to me it was.
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And I just find it fascinating our how our brains can work so
13:37
differently to, to one another and how we all process
13:41
information so, so uniquely. Yeah, thank you so much for for
13:48
sharing. I hope that's helpful for, for,
13:51
for everyone who is listening or watching.
13:54
So you mentioned being misunderstood by, by your dad,
14:00
for example, as a family member at the time.
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Are there any key moments or periods when you felt
14:06
misunderstood by other teachers? You had Miss Andrews, but other
14:11
teachers, peers and and even other family members?
14:15
And how did you navigate that? Yeah, I think the main stand out
14:19
one for me that was really difficult was when I was at
14:22
university and I was actually in the process of getting a
14:25
diagnosis at the time because I decided to seek it and do it
14:27
myself as a student, which was obviously very hard financially.
14:30
But I was like, no, I want to understand myself and somebody
14:34
to explain this in a way I can understand it.
14:36
And a lecturer in my first year gave me feedback on one of my
14:40
assignments that said if I write like this, I'll never become a
14:43
social worker. And I think that really impacted
14:48
me. I didn't, I think it spurred me
14:50
on, which I was quite lucky. That was said to me at
14:53
university where I already had like committed.
14:56
I'd worked so hard to get there that I think if that had been
14:59
said to me any earlier, I think it would have broke me and it
15:01
would have broke my passion to go further and I'd get
15:04
education. I was already at uni and I was
15:06
like, no, I'm in my first year. I'm going to do this.
15:09
So that initially really hurt and I did send that lecture an
15:13
e-mail back saying I'm actually in the process of getting a
15:15
dyslexic diagnosis. I didn't feel this feedback
15:18
constructive. Can we please have a meeting
15:21
which he, he did and he did apologise for because he didn't
15:24
realise, but actually it was that awareness piece for him
15:28
that was like, please don't say this.
15:29
Because actually, as we've already highlighted, there's a
15:31
lot of people that will go undiagnosed.
15:34
And it's about understanding, and it's about taking that time
15:37
to listen, as you've done today, inviting me onto that individual
15:40
person's dyslexic mind. Because even if I did have a
15:44
diagnosis and that was clear on the reports, how my domain works
15:48
and how I write, it can be completely different to how
15:50
another dyslexic person writes. So for him to make that sweeping
15:54
statement was quite like, yeah, quite hurtful, I actually think
15:58
at the time. And it really demotivated me.
16:02
So, yeah, I think that's the one that really stands out.
16:04
But there's been little nuances. You know, I remember moving into
16:08
the world of social media when I was an adolescent.
16:10
I was quite lucky. It come right at the end of my
16:13
secondary school experience, but that was all a lot of typing and
16:17
writing and I was like, I kept spelling things wrong my like
16:20
I'd get not and do not mixed up a lot on text and my and
16:25
obviously back in the day, you had to click so many times to
16:27
spell a word in you know, and it it it was her because of my
16:31
friends started to pick up and it made my dyslexia more
16:34
noticeable to them and they would joke and they didn't mean
16:38
any harm by it. But obviously for me, it was a
16:40
massive source of vulnerability and embarrassment.
16:43
So when they'd be like, Nicole, what enough do you mean?
16:46
I would get quite upset because I was like, oh, I'd spent ages
16:49
reading that text, proofreading that text, making sure before I
16:52
sent it, and it'd only be like 2 sentences or maybe a sentence.
16:57
And shorthand obviously then didn't really help me because I
17:00
got lazy for a little while and just used shorthand because that
17:03
was a lot easier than trying to actually actively spell words
17:06
and do that. Yeah, that's, that's definitely
17:13
it doesn't help your your mental well, well, well-being and and
17:17
self esteem, especially when you are a teenager or an adolescent
17:22
because you know, there's so much you're going through.
17:25
And when you when you have this, this kind of comments it, it
17:31
doesn't it doesn't help. But I guess with that university
17:37
teacher from there you probably became more resilient as well
17:43
throughout the years. And can you tell us about, about
17:47
a bit more about resilience because you, you are quite
17:50
successful today in wearing all of these hats and, and
17:53
supporting families with, with your experience and, and your
17:58
work. Yeah, so I fully credit parts of
18:00
my dyslexia for most of my resilience, I think.
18:03
I think it made me such a hard worker.
18:06
I understood what hard work was like from an early, early age
18:10
because I was like, no, if I'm going to get this, I've got to
18:13
work hard. My brain isn't built for the
18:15
academic system that's currently in place in the UK, and I'm
18:19
going to have to work hard. And I think I saw so many of my
18:22
friends that it's interesting, isn't it?
18:24
Because comparison is the faith of joy.
18:26
But it's just natural that that will happen.
18:29
And I saw my friends that back in the day at school, I would
18:33
and compare myself to and be like, how do they get a straight
18:35
age? How do they, how do they do
18:37
this? I don't understand.
18:38
I've never got an A star in my life.
18:41
You know, I don't understand this.
18:42
And then it was really interesting because then we when
18:45
we moved all to the world of having careers and work,
18:49
suddenly I was the one getting promoted.
18:51
Suddenly I was the one getting the higher rolls.
18:54
And it was all of a sudden because we weren't graded
18:56
anymore, It wasn't something I had to sit and have a short term
18:59
memory recall of all this information.
19:01
It was shown in promoted through hard work and commitment and
19:05
passion. And suddenly I was the one.
19:07
They're like, Nicole, how are you getting all these like
19:09
really high job roles that I was promoted to a deputy manager at
19:12
24. You know, they were like, how
19:14
are you doing this? And I was like, it's because I'm
19:15
working hard and I found my niche.
19:19
I found, you know, if you want to call it a special interest, I
19:22
found my passion and I am, you know, I'm able to show that
19:27
ethic. I, I will still not to this day.
19:29
And I know I can hear my dad and my partner in my head right now.
19:31
I still don't say I'm intelligent.
19:33
And I think that because that's hard wired in me to think I'm
19:35
stupid because of my early academic experiences.
19:38
And I think we always accredit intelligence on academic
19:42
ability. But one thing I always will say
19:45
is I'm incredibly emotionally intelligent because I struggle
19:47
to process words and I process visually.
19:50
I'll pay more attention to your facial expressions.
19:52
I'll pay more attention to your body language as you walk in a
19:55
room. My friends will sometimes go,
19:57
are you psychic? Because I'll immediately know
19:59
they're not OK when they walk into a room because I look at
20:02
their body language, not what they're saying.
20:04
I'll be like, you're not right, What's up?
20:06
And I think all of that, you know, with resilience, with
20:09
that, it's it's so important. And I think actually, yeah, it's
20:12
made me who I am today by. And rightly or wrongly, how hard
20:17
I've had to work has actually then really enabled me in my
20:20
adult life to say, OK. And I've always, everyone always
20:23
says, oh, Nicole, you're such an old soul.
20:25
You're so mature for your age. And I'm like, yeah, I, I know
20:28
what hard work is. And it's interesting talking now
20:31
to my friends that are like, why is this not coming easy?
20:35
Like adulting is really hard. But then I speak to my Nora
20:38
Divergent friends and they're like, Oh no, life's always been
20:41
hard. Like, and it's like some friends
20:44
are having this revelation that adulting in life is really hard.
20:47
And then I'm talking to my Nora Divergent friends and they're
20:49
like, no, life's always been hard.
20:51
It's just a different version of hard now.
20:53
And I think we're all more resilient.
20:56
You know, I, I've got a lot of neuro divergent friends.
20:58
I do think you find your tribe and I, yeah, I do see them and
21:03
they're like, yeah, life's always been hard.
21:05
I don't know why these other people are finding it so hard
21:07
all of a sudden. It's quite funny to hear.
21:10
Yeah, Yeah. I think it's very easy when you,
21:14
when you grow up like that and you have to mature early in life
21:18
that your, your confidence is, is affected by it and you
21:23
yourself esteem as well. But I really think you should be
21:27
very proud of, of what you, you achieved.
21:29
And you know, there's nothing wrong with growing up early.
21:34
I have the same experience for different reasons.
21:39
And you know, I think it, it defines who I am today.
21:42
And when I look back at it, sometimes I get frustrated
21:45
because as you said earlier, yes, it would have been better,
21:50
you know, to, to and I partied a lot and, and I had, you know, I
21:55
had that chance. But yeah, there was a lot of
21:58
worries in, in my head when I shouldn't be worried, you know,
22:02
with paying bills, for example, at the time of, of, of my life.
22:06
So, yeah, life is always hard. It doesn't matter in what, in
22:09
what phase you, you are at. And I think when we have to work
22:13
harder to, to achieve what we want to achieve, it's yeah, we
22:18
just need to be proud of ourselves.
22:20
And I, I know it's, it's very difficult, You know, you have
22:24
people telling you how amazing you are, but sometimes it's
22:27
easier to to forget and, and not to believe fully in, in
22:31
yourself. So yeah, but you, you should be
22:34
very proud of yourself. You are a wonderful still young
22:39
lady. Yeah, I appreciate it.
22:42
Working with children, though, does start to age you very
22:44
rapidly. Like, I don't get what you're
22:45
talking about anymore. I'm really sorry.
22:47
It's been a while since I've been your age and in school.
22:51
And yeah, they come out with all this new language and I'm like,
22:52
I don't. Know what that means?
22:54
What is this, what are you talking about?
22:57
Very true. OK.
22:59
So did you have any accommodations and and support
23:02
that throughout the years either at home or at university or or
23:09
school and how did that help you?
23:12
How did it impact your path? Yeah, so I did manage to get a
23:15
little bit of support in secondary school.
23:17
So my parents said really because they knew something
23:19
wasn't right and because of Miss Andrews, which they did sort of
23:23
fight for it for me. So I managed to get a little bit
23:25
of time at 50, I think it was 15% extra time in my GCS ES.
23:29
So I had a little bit of extra time and then I also sat in a
23:34
smaller hall when I did my GCS ES.
23:36
So again, without a diagnosis, I managed to get those things.
23:39
My parents did have to fight, unfortunately, but they did get
23:41
them. And then at university when my
23:46
dad obviously, as I said, was a massive source of support.
23:49
But then when I did gain my diagnosis, my dyslexia tutor
23:54
actually sent me forward for some coaching sessions on what
23:57
dyslexia was and through the university because they couldn't
24:02
obviously give them out for free without a diagnosis,
24:04
unfortunately at the university. So once I paid for that, I,
24:08
yeah, I had some academic tutoring sessions that I could
24:11
use whenever I wanted. So that was really helpful.
24:15
I think the biggest thing that sticks in my mind, however, is
24:18
when I got my diagnosis, I was really nervous as a student.
24:21
I was spending a lot of money on it.
24:22
I was like, everyone's always said, I've been fine, like all
24:25
borderline. So I don't know if this is going
24:27
to be a waste of money. And I remember her saying at the
24:31
end, she was like, you're in your second year of university,
24:34
right? And I was like, yeah.
24:35
And she was like, I don't know how you've got here.
24:38
You are incredibly dyslexic and probably one for a better
24:42
phrase, she said. You should, probably shouldn't
24:45
thrown a few chairs in school. And I laughed because I was
24:49
like, yeah, you always know of the chair throw her in school.
24:52
But you know, and I said, and I said, yeah, it's a shame because
24:55
I and I always root for the, the quiet ones and the underdogs
24:58
that suffer silently because I under.
25:00
And I, I think it's a shame that you have to get to the point of
25:03
throwing a chair or storming out of the lesson or becoming a
25:07
disruptor or the class clown. However you handle it, I think
25:10
it's always a shame when it has to reach that point.
25:12
And I was lucky that it didn't. My dad did also manage to pay
25:16
for some extra tutoring throughout my adolescence, but
25:20
it wasn't tailored to dyslexia, so I can't say it was, it was
25:24
OK. Like it was nice to have that
25:25
one to one and that time, but it probably didn't.
25:29
If anything it probably frustrated me more at the time
25:32
because I was like, I'm waiting my Saturday trying to learn how
25:34
to read and it's still not going in.
25:39
Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm actually curious about those friends of
25:43
yours who would make those comments back in the day before
25:46
you knew, did did you get any support, even emotionally from
25:51
them after they they knew and you had the diagnosis?
25:55
No, I, I don't think they still really got it.
25:58
I, I think as well life had kind of moved on.
26:01
I just at uni, I do have a wonderful, really close best
26:05
friend and we actually both got a diagnosis of dyslexia at
26:08
university and we're still very close this day.
26:09
She's also in social care and she studied the same degree.
26:13
So I am now surrounded by really wonderful people that really do
26:17
get it. My partner is also Nora, Diverse
26:20
and dyslexic and dyslexic so, and he's had that diagnosis
26:24
since he was 5, so it's now nice.
26:26
It's almost like unintentionally I've surrounded myself with
26:30
people that get it that little bit more and my dad's definitely
26:33
come round to understand it. It's still very hard for him
26:36
because he doesn't have a neurodivergent brain at all.
26:38
You know, that's never been a query in his life.
26:40
So. But now I can explain myself to
26:42
him a bit better being an adult and I've had time to learn.
26:46
Yeah, but I don't, I think it's really hard because as a
26:50
adolescent you're, we're all stuck in our own heads, aren't
26:52
we? We don't really think about what
26:54
our words are saying to other people and how that's impacting
26:57
to them. It was just funny.
26:59
And I don't, you know, I don't look back on that in any
27:01
negative way. Like it impacted me at the time,
27:04
but I don't blame them. They, they didn't understand.
27:06
And actually it's took me a what I I got my yeah, I'm still 27.
27:11
I'm still figuring out how a dyslexic mind works.
27:14
So I don't blame them. They've probably got better
27:17
things to figure out and learn. Yeah, definitely.
27:21
And that's the way to to do it. You know, we, I, I really feel
27:25
like at the moment we have these, we neurodivergent, they
27:30
neurotypical and hopefully one day this binary will will
27:34
disappear because, you know, we didn't know better once you
27:39
didn't know you were dyslexic, you didn't understand yourself.
27:41
I didn't know my daughter was autistic.
27:45
Therefore we just learn. It's a learning journey for for
27:49
everyone really. So you mentioned that being a
27:54
hard worker is one of your strengths and advantages of
27:58
being dyslexic. Are there any ways that your
28:05
brain, well, you mentioned this as well, works differently that
28:08
you see as creatively or practically beneficial.
28:12
So a few more examples. Yeah, no, you have them of.
28:15
Course, yeah, I do. So the big one is actually being
28:18
more emotionally intelligent. So taking the words out of a
28:21
conversation and actually being able to pay attention to body
28:23
language more easily and not get distracted and bogged down by
28:26
what somebody's saying is really helpful.
28:28
I think being a visual learner, it's definitely helped me in
28:34
explaining things to people, especially because I work with
28:37
younger children quite frequently.
28:39
Being able to explain or find a metaphor that they connect to.
28:42
I spent ages trying to like, think, OK, what do you like?
28:45
And I, I've, I've made metaphors out of roadblocks.
28:49
I've made metaphors out of Minecraft, like you name it,
28:53
I've made a metaphor for it. I think my most recent one was
28:57
like energy accounting and Mario Kart.
28:59
So like getting in a car and thinking about, right, what are
29:03
the things that slow you down? So they're your bananas.
29:05
They, they really slow you down. They speed that, you know, and
29:07
what are the things that speed you up to that like little
29:09
rainbow star that you get sometimes it speeds you up on
29:12
the track. What are the things that give
29:13
you energy and make you excited and get you through the day, You
29:16
know? And we were really breaking it
29:18
down using all the little Mario Kart, like.
29:20
Yeah, the tools you get and it's great because it really engages
29:24
people. And if you can apply it like
29:26
that, you understand it. And it's like it makes it more
29:29
engaging and fun and not being funny.
29:30
I'm 27 and I prefer applying it to Mario Kart and this boring,
29:35
just psychological bit of paper that look black and white, loads
29:38
of text, you know, actually, it's fun to draw it out, think
29:41
about how it looks and understand it in that visual
29:44
picture. So I think I just love how much
29:46
it leans into making me a more creative, more expressive
29:50
person. I think, and that's a big thing
29:53
for me is I'm everyone jokes because I'm like covered in
29:55
tattoos. I have my red hair and you know,
29:57
I'm quite a visual expressive person because I think I I
30:01
struggle with my words. So I'd rather just be visual And
30:05
I am. I always say, you know, I wish
30:08
schools were set up on a visual learning, kinesthetic learning,
30:12
academic writing learning kind of model instead of bottom,
30:17
middle and on top because I think that has a massive impact
30:20
on yourself esteem having to say I'm in, but I'm set for
30:22
everything. So yeah.
30:25
And you, I think you retain your knowledge better.
30:29
So one example for me, and you know, I never realized anything
30:34
about school until more recently, but in Portugal, our,
30:40
our system is, is very much based on, on exams, like in
30:44
here, you know, with SAT and TCS and all of that.
30:47
And then when I came to, when I came here and I, I went to
30:50
university here, having coursework and assignments, I
30:54
noticed the difference because, you know, having to memorize
30:57
everything for an exam and then being under pressure, you have
31:00
this limited amount of time to show that you, you know, things
31:05
and then actually having the time, you know, maybe two weeks
31:07
to do your research, to write something about it.
31:12
I remember a lot more from university than actually from
31:17
from school. And I think the education system
31:23
could learn a lot more with with the way that works more for
31:31
neuro divergent children, for example, like using visual aids
31:36
and and making it more visual. So I definitely agree with you
31:41
in that in that sense. Great.
31:44
So you have quite a lot of work experience at the age of 27
31:49
only, which is fantastic. So can you describe some of the
31:56
work experience you've you've you've done and what got you
32:00
here and what motivates you to support young people and
32:04
children and, and and their families?
32:06
Yeah, so I guess I think most people have their own path
32:11
they've they've gone into like the world of mental health for
32:13
neurodivergent support. So I had my own experience with
32:16
mental health due to personal my personal upbringing.
32:19
I was a young carer for a parent with quite difficult mental
32:22
health needs and I also had my dyslexia and myself esteem quite
32:26
knocked at school because of that.
32:28
So I think my passion just grew and grew and grew for wanting to
32:32
make a difference. And initially I was considering
32:34
wanting to be a primary school teacher but actually trying to
32:37
get into uni doing those things. I failed the English test, no
32:41
surprise. So I chose the path of social
32:44
care because I really looked into wanting to be a counsellor,
32:47
but at the time the equality laws were a little bit different
32:50
and they did want me to have a little bit more life experience.
32:53
So I'd said, OK, what path could lead me there eventually or what
32:56
could lead me still into mental health.
32:58
And as much as a mental health nurse sounded great, I'm not the
33:03
best with needles. So social care it was.
33:06
And actually my granny was a fosterer.
33:09
So that was an amazing thing to like follow in her footsteps in
33:12
a slightly different way and look into that.
33:15
So I fell into social care, which has been amazing.
33:20
I fell straight from my degree into camps and got the pleasure
33:25
of, yeah, just learning how to become a mental health
33:28
practitioner and fell in love with working with young people,
33:31
with their mental health and their well-being and using, as
33:35
I've just said, those creative ways to help them express
33:38
themselves. And I learnt so much then on the
33:41
job about autism and ADHD and done my own research and my own
33:47
training through the NHS around those topics.
33:50
And because I wanted to make a difference, because I saw so
33:54
many young people sat waiting for mental health interventions
33:59
and support, I really got a passion for wanting to change
34:02
the system I suppose, or make more of a difference.
34:05
Know that some of this stuff is your full stop at the end of
34:08
your journey. You don't have to wait.
34:10
There's stuff out there. I hated that kids were waiting
34:14
like a year for me to give these real practical tools.
34:17
I was like, I could tell you this in a couple of sessions,
34:20
you don't need to wait years for me to say this, do you?
34:22
So I started them progressing and went into management and I
34:27
went into being a deputy manager, trying to slowly learn
34:30
and build that sort of more system, understanding how does
34:34
the system work? And we all know, you know, don't
34:37
want to go into politics on here, but you know, it's not the
34:40
best funded world in the UK at the moment for healthcare.
34:43
So we can't abolish waiting lists as much as maybe my little
34:46
heart had the passion to. And I then got the amazing
34:52
opportunity to become the Family and Carers engagement
34:56
coordinator. And it's all about supporting
34:58
those that are on our mental health waiting lists at the
35:01
moment. Hopefully one day it will go to
35:03
other waiting lists as well, such as the diagnostic agnostic
35:06
waiting list for neurodivergence, but at the
35:09
moment we're piloting it for the mental health teams and it's
35:13
been just such a pleasure to help a myth bust the
35:16
complexities that is the NHS and Cam services all across the UK.
35:21
We're all different, it doesn't matter where you're from.
35:23
And to give that information right at the front door to
35:28
families. And I've had the pleasure of
35:30
being able to interview and work alongside 2 parents of lived
35:34
experience. And I can honestly say that the
35:39
peer support element, a long mix with clinical is so rare and
35:43
it's so nice and it's so valued. And the fact that I'm saying
35:48
something quite clinical and I don't massively share my lived
35:51
experience at work because I share safe share where it's
35:54
appropriate. And I do share that I'm
35:56
dyslexic, but don't go into all the nuances of my life.
36:00
But it's so nice then to have the backup of my peer support
36:03
workers saying, yeah, I've been a parent.
36:05
I've been on that journey. Yeah, what Nicole saying.
36:08
I get it. Let's practically put that into
36:10
common sense then. I'm a parent.
36:11
I've done this, especially being so young, you know, I understand
36:15
it's incredibly hard for parents to come and meet myself, who's
36:18
only 27, haven't had the pleasure of having children yet.
36:21
I hope to one day. And I've got quite a baby face,
36:24
so I sometimes have to specify that I'm 27.
36:28
But you know, I can then rely on that peer support element and
36:32
say I do know this works, my peer support workers Fact Check
36:36
it for me. I never just say this stuff
36:38
lightly. So I think that collaboration
36:40
and I hope to bring that one day in more to future things that I
36:44
do and have that more peer support element in the work I
36:48
do. I am training to be more
36:50
therapeutic now because I've just said how needed it is and
36:53
there's so many young people that unfortunately what we're
36:57
commissioned and able to do in the NHS doesn't always meet the
37:02
needs of the young people that are coming into service.
37:05
A lot of the kids just want to come and talk about how hard it
37:07
is to be in school in an environment that's not meeting
37:11
their needs necessarily or not built for their needs.
37:14
You know, they don't want to be challenged with cognitive
37:16
behavioural therapy about why they're anxious or they don't
37:20
want to have a goal to kind of achieve because actually there's
37:23
no goal other than Get Me Out of school.
37:26
And I, I think it's, yeah, I'm really ambitious about taking my
37:31
career future into supporting those with SEND needs or special
37:36
education needs and neurodivergence and whatever
37:38
kind of how you identify and prefer to talk about your needs.
37:42
Because I think it is really important to help you understand
37:45
yourself and how that does impact yourself esteem and how
37:48
someone that gets it talk about it with you.
37:50
I think I've come to some of your events, Andrea, and I know
37:53
you said it's such an under thing to have peer support and
37:56
professional in the same room. You either get professional and
37:59
then peer support and it's I just want to mush it together
38:03
because I've really seen the benefit in it.
38:06
Yeah, I love that idea. I think it makes a lot, a lot of
38:09
sense. And as you know, we, we, I LED
38:12
the organization of the Neuro Diversity Conference, the Oxford
38:16
Health PRC Neuro Diversity Conference a few weeks ago.
38:20
And that was my aim to bring clinicians and, and
38:24
professionals and local organizations, everyone together
38:27
and, and people with live experience, of course, to, to
38:30
start thinking about future collaborations and how we can
38:33
advance mental health research in this case.
38:36
So I, I really love what, what you are doing and your future
38:39
vision and yeah, very happy to have a chat and, and brainstorm
38:44
and, and share ideas as, as as a parent and someone who's also
38:49
waiting to be assessed myself. So yeah, well done.
38:54
I look forward to see how this unfolds in the, in the coming
38:59
years. OK.
39:02
Is there any story keeping it confidentially of course that
39:06
you could share where your involvement made the difference?
39:12
I'm I'm sure there's plenty of them for a patient or family or
39:17
parent carer. Yeah, I guess the first one that
39:20
comes to mind, which I can keep very confidential is I, I did an
39:23
event a while back with the Oxfordshire Parent Carer Forum,
39:28
which you know was an open event to lots of parents that chose to
39:30
come. And I was fortunate enough to be
39:33
one of the clinical leads doing a presentation all on our new
39:36
service and what we're doing to sort of help the waiting times
39:41
whilst on the waiting list and giving early interventions I
39:44
suppose. And I was fortunate enough to be
39:49
in a position that I was talking to a room of parents of children
39:52
with neurodivergence and special educational needs.
39:55
And I introduced the whole room to the concept of ambiguous
40:02
loss, which is something I wrote my dissertation on, which is the
40:05
concept of grieving somebody that's psychologically not what
40:09
you expect or maybe has mental health or their their presence
40:13
is different to what kind of you were used to or what you knew or
40:16
maybe what you expected. And.
40:19
I you basically go through the same grief cycles as you do if
40:24
somebody has passed away, but there isn't a end to it, which
40:28
is what my dissertation kind of concluded was.
40:30
There isn't. It's more of a rather than I
40:33
don't necessarily believe there's an end to normal grief,
40:36
but, and I have experienced my own grief in that way.
40:38
But it seems that that is there's more stable periods of
40:42
acceptance when it's a actual kind of complete grief of
40:46
somebody passing away where you might only get those rearance of
40:49
emotions and stages of the grief again on anniversaries or on
40:52
Christmas and those sort of things.
40:54
But actually what I found from ambiguous loss and grieving
40:58
something, you may be a life you expected for your little girl or
41:01
little boy or just child in general.
41:04
And you get thrown constantly into the different stages of
41:10
grief. And I remember the whole room
41:12
going quiet and there was quite a few tears in the room.
41:16
And but it was tears of like someone's finally understood to
41:20
me, like somebody gets and put a name to the things that I've
41:23
been dealing with for the last however many years.
41:26
It was for those parents in that room.
41:29
And I remember so many people coming up to me afterwards and
41:32
being like, so thank you so much for putting a name to it.
41:35
Like, and thank you for giving me permission to say that I'm
41:39
grieving that, you know, that I'm grieving what I thought my
41:42
little girl's life was going to be or you know, what my child's
41:45
life was going to look like. And I'm constantly, I'll have a
41:49
really small period of like everything's going well, the
41:51
routines working, they're going to school awesome.
41:54
And then suddenly there's ATA and I'm thrown back into having
41:58
to bargain with the school that they haven't put in reasonable
42:01
adjustments. They haven't warned us that that
42:02
TA is coming in. And yeah, I'm in the bargaining
42:05
stage of the grief cycle again. And then I go into anger because
42:08
I'm annoyed at the school. And then I'm sad that my child's
42:12
school refusing again and in all of those different things.
42:15
And she's. Oh, I understand now.
42:18
And I think what they then attributed it further to by
42:21
themselves was how it's really hard then when all the families
42:24
in different stages. So like the young person hasn't
42:27
maybe come to terms yet and they're in that shock and in
42:29
denial and don't really know they are neurodivergent or don't
42:33
really want to accept they are because of the stigma.
42:36
And then you have maybe your Co parent that is in a different
42:39
stage, maybe they're more sad and you're more angry and
42:42
motivated and it it clashes and it causes a lot of disturbance
42:46
in the family home. So I think that was the real big
42:50
moment for me. I felt I made an impact on a lot
42:52
of parents. I think talking more to young
42:56
people, I think I've been so lucky.
42:58
I've had some lovely, lovely cases in my journey of seven
43:02
years now in CAMHS and my feedback always has been and I
43:06
really do love it. Is that they say you've
43:09
understood me. And whenever someone says that
43:11
to me, my heart warms. You know, I have been so lucky
43:15
to, I remember very vividly, I, when I went into this world of
43:20
work, I, I said, if I can save one person's life from feeling
43:24
awful and feeling there's not any other options from either,
43:27
you know, some really horrible things or, you know, feeling
43:31
that they're not worth anything. I've done my duty.
43:33
And more than once now I've heard that in response of like,
43:37
you've saved me. And I think I got a card not too
43:41
long ago, about two years ago, and I still have it on my desk.
43:44
It's next to me right now that says you saved my life, you by
43:48
some grace of God or upper power.
43:50
I was the person that picked them up on, on my caseload.
43:53
And they said they said it. And I, I've never said that to a
43:58
family that that's my aim or that's my goal, because that
44:01
puts me on some sort of a high expectation.
44:04
And I don't, you know, but they said it naturally themselves.
44:07
And that young person has now gone on to do incredible things
44:11
and they have emailed me, which is really, really nice.
44:15
We're not really meant to stay in touch.
44:16
So unfortunately I can't reply to her for ethical reasons.
44:19
But it's nice to see, you know, and her have that.
44:23
Yeah, that want to tell me that she's achieved and she's gone on
44:27
to do amazing things. So I have so many stories like
44:31
that. I could probably bore the
44:32
podcast for ages with these stories because they make me so
44:35
happy. And it's on the days where the
44:38
job's really hard and I understand, especially being the
44:42
engagement coordinator now, I am the face of the waiting list and
44:46
I deal with a lot of frustration and I deal with a lot of anger.
44:49
But, and there's days where I'm like, I don't want to be shouted
44:52
at anymore. But they when I get that parent
44:57
that finally then goes, oh, you've heard me.
44:59
I'm really sorry. Like don't mean to take it out
45:02
on you. And they always end with that.
45:04
They always do. And it's lovely.
45:06
And I'm like, yeah, I get it. You need to, you need to take it
45:08
out on someone. You're angry.
45:10
And I, it's cool. Like I'm here.
45:12
It's why it's my job and it's why I chose this job.
45:14
It's not an easy feat, but it's yeah, I enjoy it because it is
45:18
so rewarding. And I think you do understand
45:22
what people go through and and it makes a huge difference.
45:26
And going back to the ambiguous laws, yes, definitely.
45:29
You just, I was, you were describing it and I was just
45:33
seeing myself. I very often talk about me being
45:37
in denial of my daughter's autism.
45:40
And yeah, but it's it's a constant, yeah.
45:45
It's because they are not who you expected them to be.
45:49
And you create this ideal child when you are expecting them.
45:55
So, yeah, thank you for, for writing your dissertation on
45:59
that and, and for sharing. It's definitely resonates.
46:02
And I'm sure that all the stories, the, the, the positive
46:06
stories that you have are the fuel for you to keep going and
46:11
continue doing your job with, you know, enthusiasm and, and
46:16
your positivity that you, you clearly show.
46:19
We see your eyes shining when you are talking about your, your
46:23
job. So that's, that's great.
46:25
So if you could redesign 1 aspect of school or mental
46:29
health services to better support neural divergent people,
46:33
what would that be? I think it's the learning
46:37
styles. I think being able to learn more
46:39
into people's needs and how they learn and how they process
46:42
information would be amazing. And I think also, I think what
46:47
I'm able to start to do is, is being transparent and open.
46:51
Like I think we're, so I think people are almost scared of over
46:56
informing, but actually we're in a world now where if you're not
47:00
going to give me the information, I'm going to go on
47:02
my phone and get it. And I might not actually look in
47:04
the right place. So I think I'm very transparent.
47:08
I will, you know, that's why I volunteer to come on this
47:10
podcast. It's why I don't mind saying I
47:12
work for the service that I work for because if I can break down
47:17
a myth or if I can give the right information, I will like.
47:22
And I'm like, I don't want you to have to gatekeep this or this
47:25
is some secret or this is something that you can't know.
47:28
I'm happy to be an open book and share that information.
47:31
So I think it's information, practical skills and leaning
47:35
into people's learning styles. I wish all services, education,
47:40
school, social care, you know, anything a healthcare did that
47:44
more because it does really make the difference in I always say,
47:49
you know, the unknown's scarier than the known.
47:51
And if you inform people and give them the right tools,
47:55
they'll be happy and they will get it.
47:56
So I think, and it's also being not afraid to admit when you
47:59
don't know, you know, I I've said that so many times to
48:02
families. It's like, I don't know on this
48:04
one, I'm going to get some more information for you, you know,
48:07
and I'm going to signpost you in a different direction.
48:09
And it might be frustrating. She thought I had the answers,
48:11
but actually it's better you're sitting in front and then
48:13
somebody that does than somebody that's winging it.
48:15
So I think, yeah, I think information sharing as much as
48:19
you can, giving the right signposting to the right
48:22
resources. Stop information overload and
48:26
seeking, frantically seeking everywhere.
48:28
Have a tool kit and lean into learning styles.
48:32
Learning styles are so nuanced and treat everybody as you've
48:36
said. You've already said the quote.
48:37
You stole it right out now when you've met 1 Nora divergent
48:40
person, you've met 1 Nora Divergent person.
48:43
Never ever expect you're an expert.
48:46
And I think the day you do or you think, oh, I've seen
48:48
everything or Oh yeah, this is, you know, it's classic
48:51
presentation. You know, you're burnt out.
48:53
You need to take a break from what what I do like or working
48:57
in education, you know, you need to take break.
48:59
It's you need to know that everyone you meet is a person.
49:02
They're not a number on all this.
49:03
They're not just another people. They are their own person and
49:07
their own right, and their brain works in wonderful ways.
49:10
We'd be in a very boring world if we all were just exactly the
49:14
same. Yes, absolutely, and everyone
49:20
deserves to be validated and to have their feelings and their
49:23
perspective validated. Are there any strategies or
49:30
habits that have been more helpful to support you
49:35
personally? I think the workplace will
49:37
probably take most of your time. Is there anything that you can
49:42
share that you use as a strategy?
49:44
Yeah. So I actually managed to through
49:46
access to work to get some workplace coaching, which was
49:49
amazing. So it's a government kind of
49:50
version of, I guess an educational healthcare plan.
49:52
You can, you know, you can get a report put up for you for your
49:55
workplace and then that can either get funding for you or if
49:58
you're in a big company, they have to fund it legally under
50:02
kind of that. Yeah, the Equality Act.
50:04
So I managed to get some workplace coaching and I think
50:07
the biggest thing actually that helped me with that and it was
50:11
amazing to learn. And I was like, Oh yeah, that
50:13
makes so much sense, is planning my day to my circadian rhythm.
50:18
So I'm a morning person naturally, I function better in
50:21
the morning and my brains more active in the morning.
50:24
And towards the end of the day, my brain starts to like slow
50:28
down and my dyslexia almost becomes worse.
50:30
Like as I'm tired, it's like it's getting worse with the
50:33
tiredness throughout the day. So it's odd, but I do all my
50:37
admin in the morning and I see my patients in the afternoon.
50:42
And some people will be like, well, surely it's harder to see
50:44
your patients. So that no, because that comes
50:45
naturally to me. Emotional literacy is easy, like
50:48
picking up on nuances, chatting to the young people.
50:51
Doing that is the easy part of my job.
50:54
Quote UN quote easy but easy for my dyslexia.
50:57
It's the writing it down and formatting it into a formal
51:00
letter for AGP or a school or a clinical note that is harder for
51:05
me. Like to spend that time and do
51:07
that. So I try and plan my diary
51:10
around my dyslexia. So I'm like, right, I know my
51:13
dyslexia is going to be worse, especially today.
51:16
It's a Friday from 12:00. You'll be lucky if you get a
51:19
good articulate e-mail out of me, you know.
51:22
So I plan my diary. I use my Mondays really
51:24
effectively to get as much as my admin out of the way as I
51:26
possibly can. And then I drip feed for the
51:29
rest of the week. And I use, I really prioritize
51:31
my mornings to get through that e-mail inbox and make sure and
51:35
write up my academic e-mail written stuff.
51:38
I suppose. I think the other thing is
51:41
leaning into the visuals. I, I've like my diary is
51:44
completely colour coded to anyone else, it means nothing.
51:48
But if it's pink, I know I need to be there so I can glance at
51:51
my diary and see it's bright pink.
51:53
And I'm like, yeah, Nicole, you can't miss that one.
51:55
That one can't be moved. That that is an important
51:58
meeting. If it's, if it's orange, it can
52:00
be moved. It's admin, you know, and I, so
52:02
it's, it's nice for me at a quick glance not to have to look
52:05
at the particular titles of everything.
52:08
When I look at my day, I can see exactly what my day is because I
52:10
know my colour code and I know what my colour code looks like.
52:13
So I know what's clinical supervision, what's a meeting,
52:17
what's admin, what's a meeting with a patient.
52:19
So I have a different colour for all of those things.
52:22
Everybody else looks at my dad and goes, Nicole, it looks like
52:24
a rainbow threw up on it. And I'm like, no, it makes sense
52:28
to me. So yeah, I really lean into my
52:30
colours and and I lean into understanding my own kind of
52:34
energy levels and energy accounting throughout the day
52:36
and when my body gets naturally tired and throughout the week as
52:40
well. And I think something we don't
52:42
talk about a lot is how it's impacted by hormones, being a
52:46
woman and having the joys of Mother Nature, you know, certain
52:51
times of the month, my dyslexia is also worse because my body is
52:55
naturally dealing with other things and hormones and things
52:58
like that. So I always used to say it's not
53:01
fair. They make me sit my GCS ES when
53:03
I had to my period. My brain hurts.
53:07
So I also also make sure I say that to any person that has
53:12
periods, you know, to know and be kind to themselves when
53:15
periods do come up because that's another thing.
53:17
So they're probably my top three, yeah.
53:19
Colours and energy accountable. Yes, very helpful.
53:25
And again, being open about it as well with your colleagues and
53:28
you know, for those who don't understand, for example, why
53:31
your calendar is so, and I'm sure they do understand, but
53:34
it's an example why you have such a colourful calendar, but
53:38
at least they understand you. And yeah, that's something I,
53:42
I'm, I'm really open these days in the workplace as well.
53:46
And, and I think it makes a difference because it's, it's
53:50
unintentionally kind of creating awareness and raising awareness
53:54
of, of different aspects of being neuro divergent.
53:58
So yeah, thank you for sharing. I'm, I'm sure that the audience
54:02
will find those helpful. OK, Now focusing a bit more on
54:09
your you as as an individual, can you tell us who is your
54:16
biggest support on your journey? My dad hands down, he has been
54:22
amazing in every way despite not being neuro divergent to his
54:25
knowledge in any way and not really showing any traits of any
54:29
kind of neuro divergent. He he has spent hours with me,
54:33
helping me, coaching me, building up my confidence.
54:36
He he just gets it. Like he knows now I've explained
54:39
it enough times to him. He's seen me in.
54:41
He knows I cannot stand, you know, somebody sitting over my
54:45
shoulder when I'm writing. I need, you know, I need space.
54:48
He can he when I give it him, that's OK.
54:50
I'm like, right, I've done my best now can you just read it
54:54
for me? You know?
54:55
And he'll only call me over when he really doesn't understand
54:58
what I've written. It's not like a oh every 5
55:01
minutes because he gets the way I write now because he's read it
55:04
for years. He understands.
55:07
So yeah, my dad hands down, he's been amazing for me and growing
55:11
now into, it's been amazing now two years to have a lovely
55:14
partner that gets it as well. And he actually is interested in
55:18
how it's interesting because we're dyslexic, both dyslexic,
55:21
but the complete opposite dyslexic.
55:24
So he can write really well and do those things really well.
55:27
It's his handwriting, it effects for him and his memory.
55:30
So it's like, and he, he's like, Oh my God, you've got such a
55:33
good memory. Like I remember because it's,
55:35
I've learnt my skills with the certain colour coding and things
55:38
like that. So we almost play on each other,
55:41
which is really funny because he uses my memory and I and yeah, I
55:46
use his writing abilities. Yeah, that's the best kind of
55:50
relationship when you when you complement each other.
55:53
So that's that's great. And how do you treat yourself
55:58
with regards to well-being? So I definitely try where I can
56:04
to escape into my visual world. So I actually use a lot of audio
56:09
books and I love fantasy, so I listen to a lot of audio books.
56:14
And what I tend to do is put the audio book on, but also have the
56:17
book in front of me. So it feels that atmosphere of
56:20
reading, but it helps guide me through the book.
56:23
I have really tried to get back into my reading because I do
56:25
actually really love reading, believe it or not.
56:27
I never thought I'd say that with the years of experience of
56:30
struggling, but I, you know, so I do that a lot.
56:33
I go to a book club now, which is really lovely, once a month,
56:36
which I never thought I'd be able to say when I was younger
56:38
because I always struggled. I love baking, getting outside
56:43
with my dog when I can and going for walks and just spending time
56:48
with good people. I think spending time with
56:51
positive energy, people that lift me up, and I think one of
56:55
my favourite quotes in the world is if you're the most
56:58
intelligent person in the room, you're in the wrong room.
57:00
So I think for a long time, because I felt so stupid and I
57:04
put my bar so low, I think I'm slowly trying to learn I do have
57:08
intelligence and to stop, you know, it's not to compare
57:12
intelligence but make sure I don't feel inferior walking into
57:15
rooms where I think everybody's more intelligent than me.
57:18
No, actually we've all got different levels of intelligence
57:20
in different areas. What I bring to the table is
57:23
different to what somebody else brings to the table.
57:25
So yeah, that's something I'm really working on, but trying to
57:29
do more of. Absolutely, yes, absolutely.
57:32
I totally agree with that. It's it's, it's so good that we
57:35
we all have different experiences and perspectives and
57:40
and I really believe that it's by learning from one another
57:43
that you know it, it brings growth to you, to you as a
57:47
person. So yeah, that's that sounds
57:50
great. And who is your biggest
57:52
inspiration? I.
57:54
Think my granny, she was incredible, unfortunately no
57:57
longer with us, but she was such a kind hearted soul.
58:01
She fostered so many young children in difficult situations
58:05
and she just come to me and she just got me immediately.
58:09
I didn't even need to explain myself to her.
58:10
She just she got it. I think maybe she struggled with
58:13
it and didn't obviously know definitely in her generation
58:16
that she did. And yeah, she just, it makes me
58:20
so happy when I speak about her and she's done so much for me,
58:23
which you will never really know how much she did for me.
58:29
I also relate to that because one of my Gran Granny's is is
58:33
also my biggest inspiration. So yeah.
58:38
And if you were a superhero or had a superpower, how would you?
58:42
Who would you be or how would you use it to make the world a
58:45
better place for neuro divergent people?
58:49
So I think I'm going to have to say, Oh, don't want to be like,
58:54
oh, there's so many good superheroes.
58:57
I'm a massive Marvel fan. So that's that's a hard
58:59
question. But I think I definitely think I
59:04
would probably be kind of like Spider Man.
59:08
I suppose I like Spider Man. He's probably one of my favorite
59:12
and I think with great power comes great responsibility to
59:16
use the Spider Man quote, and I think I would probably use it
59:21
to, you know, advocate and understand because I think
59:25
Spider Man is 1. I always go to when I'm working
59:28
with young people because of heightened senses and
59:30
experiences and how he knows own environments off by his Spidey
59:34
senses and those sort of things. So I use him a lot in my
59:38
metaphors with young people when explaining certain types of
59:41
neuro divergent and that hyper focus because we all experience
59:46
that in different ways and how he can hone in on something when
59:49
his eyes move in and those sort of things.
59:51
So yeah, just it's celebration of, you know, actually, yeah,
59:54
heightened senses is a superpower.
59:56
You know, it is for Spider Man and I'd like that obviously or
1:00:01
so it's played by Tom Holland who is dyslexic.
1:00:04
So it gives a nice full circle to that.
1:00:07
Yeah, and I was also thinking, you know, if we were to
1:00:11
attribute all the Marvel characters different types of
1:00:16
neural divergent, I think he Spider Man would be ADHD.
1:00:20
At least that's how he comes across to be, you know, a bit
1:00:23
clumsy, messy and funny at the same time.
1:00:29
So yeah, that's definitely a good one.
1:00:33
And I'm moving on to music, which is one of my passions.
1:00:36
So I started including this question in the podcast
1:00:40
interviews. If there was one song and it's
1:00:43
going to be probably very difficult, but that captures
1:00:46
your journey with live experience, what would it be and
1:00:50
why does it resonate with you? Yeah, no, that's a really good
1:00:54
question. It's one of my passions as well,
1:00:55
and I use it a lot with young people.
1:00:57
I get them to send me songs they relate to and things like that.
1:01:00
And actually quite an easy question for me because I say
1:01:03
this all the time to my young people.
1:01:05
What describes my journey is Linkin Park.
1:01:07
One more light. I don't want another light to go
1:01:09
out. You all should have your light
1:01:11
and have your passion. So yeah, that's a song for me.
1:01:17
I love Linkin Park too. Yeah.
1:01:20
Thank you for sharing. And if you had the chance to go
1:01:23
back in time, what would you tell little Nicole?
1:01:26
Oh little Nicole, don't change and don't give up.
1:01:33
Like she knew where she was going.
1:01:36
She just think she needed the confidence.
1:01:41
Oh, bless you, I wish, I wish I could give you a hug.
1:01:44
No, it's, I think it's important, you know, to, you
1:01:48
know, when I think about little, little me, she just didn't have
1:01:53
confidence, that's all. Like she was all in her head.
1:01:56
She knew it. She just didn't have the
1:01:59
confidence. So I always get emotional when I
1:02:01
think about her because I wish I could go back and say, you know
1:02:07
what you're doing, just keep doing it.
1:02:10
Yeah, and I'm sure she will be very proud of young, young lady
1:02:17
Nicole, as I as I called you earlier.
1:02:21
So yeah. And what do you hope for the
1:02:23
future? I hope to make understanding
1:02:29
your brain and yourself more accessible in any way I possibly
1:02:33
can. I hope I've left my mark on the
1:02:36
NHS as I continue and want to work for the NHS for as long as
1:02:39
I can. But I also would like to start
1:02:42
up my own private support for people that don't get what they
1:02:47
need through the NHS. And yeah, make a difference and
1:02:51
help people just to understand their brains and have someone
1:02:53
they feel they can speak to with no judgement.
1:02:56
And that's why I'm studying my counselling.
1:02:59
So I think it's, it's a different approach to what's
1:03:01
offered in the NHS for young people.
1:03:04
So yeah, I hope to make a difference and continue to help
1:03:07
the NHS, but also offer something that unfortunately
1:03:10
just at this moment in time doesn't mean to say it won't be
1:03:12
in the future and I will continue to advocate for it.
1:03:15
Just help people understand who they are and have a space they
1:03:19
can come to and talk to. And like I said, bring that peer
1:03:22
and professional perspective in the same room.
1:03:26
Yeah. And that sounds amazing.
1:03:28
And I look forward to, yeah, to see where, where that takes you.
1:03:34
And finally, if your heart had a voice, what would it tell us?
1:03:40
Oh, can you ask that again? If your heart had a voice, what
1:03:45
would it tell us? Never give up, I think is the
1:03:52
quote I always come back to is it's easy when you have
1:03:55
challenges and difficulties is to just say Nah and use it as an
1:04:01
excuse and just be like, no, I can't do that because of this.
1:04:04
Or, and it's like, no, everybody has their path and everybody has
1:04:09
their story and everybody makes a difference.
1:04:11
You don't know when you've changed somebody's life.
1:04:15
A smile can change someone's life.
1:04:17
Walking down the street, they might have had the worst day in
1:04:19
the world and your smile goes, oh, somebody smiled at me today
1:04:24
and somebody hasn't smiled at me for months.
1:04:25
So don't give up. Keep being you.
1:04:29
Yeah, and that's a great way to or a great note to to end the
1:04:34
interview. Thank you so much, Nicole.
1:04:37
I'm very, very happy to have heard all of this.
1:04:41
The audience might not believe, but yes, I've met Nicole a
1:04:44
couple of times or a few times, but I didn't know half of of her
1:04:47
story. And yeah, I admired her already
1:04:51
and I'm now very inspired by her.
1:04:55
Thank you so much for sharing all of it.
1:04:57
Now, happy to, and I think it's important we keep talking.
1:05:00
Yeah, great. Thank you.
1:05:02
Thank you so much. Thank you so much for listening
1:05:21
or watching this episode of the Neuro Diverse Voices podcast.
1:05:26
Also, a huge thank you to today's guest for sharing their
1:05:29
story with such honesty and insight.
1:05:34
If you found this episode valuable, please share it with
1:05:38
someone who might need to hear it.
1:05:41
And don't forget to subscribe, leave a comment, or follow us on
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1:05:53
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1:05:57
This podcast is about connection, community, and
1:06:02
change. So let's keep the conversation
1:06:05
going. Until next time, take care, be
1:06:09
kind to yourself, and keep embracing difference.