Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / What Makes a Successful Musical Theatre Entry - Hear from the Experts

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What Makes a Successful Musical Theatre Entry - Hear from the Experts · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_04: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_04: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_04: Each week, we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_04: Dancers come in all styles: ballerinas, hoofers, b-boys, and b-girls.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_04: But all kinds of dancers have one thing in common.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_04: They're storytellers.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_04: In the musical theater category of competition, storytelling becomes even more important.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_04: In this week's episode of Making the Impact, we dive into the world of musical theater, where creating a character through dance can bring the audience on an exciting journey.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_05: Hey everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_05: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I am here today with my co-host Leslie Mueller.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_05: Hey podcast listeners.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_05: We are so excited to talk about today's topic: musical theater at dance competitions.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my goodness.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_05: And we have the best panel of guests here.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_05: Three fabulous IDA judges are here who are specialties in musical theater.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_05: They know everything about musical theater and have judged it all season long.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_05: So I can't wait to talk about this topic with these three.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_05: But before we jump in, we just want to say thank you, like always, to everyone who's been listening and subscribing to the podcast.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_05: We've had a blast this entire season and we're nearing the end, sadly.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_05: But don't worry, there's definitely going to be a season two of Making the Impact coming at the dance season when it starts in September 2020.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_05: There will be a season two coming your way.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_05: But until then, be sure to stay subscribed to us on Apple Podcasts and Google Podcasts and Spotify.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_05: And follow Impact Dance Adjudicators on social media to stay up to date on our new episode releases and our judges blog, which launches every other week.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_05: And you can even find out which events our IDA judges will be judging at during the season.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_05: So stay connected with us on social media at Impact Dance Adjudicators.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_04: One of my favorite parts about working on making the impact is hearing what people think about it.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_04: So thank you to everyone who's been reviewing and rating us on Apple Podcasts and sharing on social media.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_04: I wanted to give a special shout out to one of our reviewers, Nina Ortiz, no relation to Courtney.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, Ortiz, hello.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_04: She says, as a dancer, this podcast helps me understand perspective and gain knowledge and advice from teachers, judges, choreographers, and fellow dancers.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_04: This podcast is not overwhelming, yet informative enough to keep me interested.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_04: I love it.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, Nina.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_05: Wherever you are, Miss Ortiz, no relation, but I love it.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_04: So if you're enjoying the podcast too, head over to Apple Podcasts and leave us a review.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_05: It's time to talk and meet our fabulous guests.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_05: I have three IDA judges on the panel today.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_05: We have Alex, Max, and Jesse.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_05: Say hi, everybody.
• 2:53
  unknown: Hi.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, I'll be going.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_05: And these three judges are amazing IDA judges who judge all season long.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_05: They are out every single weekend judging all of you across the country.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_05: And they all are very well versed in musical theater.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_05: They all you are you are about to hear their wide variety and their background in musical theater.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_05: So I am very excited to have them on the podcast this evening.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_05: And let's get to know them a little bit.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_05: So let's start off with our first guest, Alex.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_05: Hello, hello.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, everyone.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_05: Um, please tell the world a little bit about you, where you're from, what you're up to, where you're based, and any career credits you want to share.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I was born and raised in Winnipeg, Canada, but I've been living in New York for almost 10 years now.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: I have a Bachelor of Fine Arts in musical theater from the Boston Conservatory.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, technically it's a BFA in theater, but the focus is musical theater.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: I've been judging for probably about eight years now.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: And uh some career highlights.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I did the West Side Story first national tour.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: I played anybody's on that.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: I was on tour with Cinderella, the Rogers and Hammerstein's first national.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: It was out for a while, but I was the first year of the national tour.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then I just got off the Hello Dolly tour starring Betty Buffley, which may have been in a city near you.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm really inspired and excited to be judging dance competitions right now and auditioning and just doing the New York City auditioner performing artist hustle.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um oh, I also was on Broadway in Soul Doctor.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, that's like my highlights.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, you're a rock star, and I'm so happy to have you back judging this season because you were away on tour last year being fabulous around the country.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_05: So welcome back to the judging world, Alex, and welcome to the pod.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_05: Next up is Max.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_05: Hello.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, how are you?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_05: I'm so good, and I'm so happy to have you here.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_05: Can you too?
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, can you please share a little bit about you and where you're based and your background and any credits you want to share with the world?
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm currently in Philadelphia, that's where I'm based.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up outside of Boston, and I've been here about 12 years.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: I came down to be to uh study musical theater at the University of the Arts, and I uh hold my BFA in musical theater from UARTs and also my master's in education from the University of the Arts.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Currently, I'm an academic advisor for high school programs at UPenn, which is also in Philadelphia.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an international adjudicator entering my well, just finishing my seventh season, having judged extensively through the US and Canada.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks to IDA, I adjudicated the season eight finale of Dance Moms last year.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's one of my favorite credits.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, right.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um done a few different different uh things throughout Philadelphia, predominantly with uh opera Philadelphia fringe arts, things like that.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_05: Awesome.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_05: So happy to have you, Max.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_05: Thanks for joining us.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_05: And finally, we have the fabulous Jesse.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_05: Hello, hello.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_05: Hello.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_05: I'm so happy to have you here.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_05: Thanks for squeezing us in because I know you're a full-time mommy.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_06: I sure am.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_06: I'm really excited to get to talk about one of my favorite topics and my favorite routines a lot of times from competitions.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_06: So I'm excited.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_06: Awesome.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_06: Please share with the world a little bit about you and who you are, Jesse.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, so I am Baltimore and DC based.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_06: And yeah, woo-hoo! Go Ravens.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_06: Go Ravens.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_06: I have a bachelor's of music from Catholic University in DC, and I actually grew up competing.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_06: Courtney and I used to compete against each other.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_06: And my studio did a lot of musical theater, so it's really exciting to get to talk about this because I uh have been doing musical theater for a long time.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_06: I was on the uh Spam a lot national tour, and then um a lot of my professional credits are from Arena Stage in DC, from Oliver to My Fair Lady and Fiddler on the Roof.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_06: I've also been assistant to Parker Essie on a few productions, Rags up in at Goodspeed Opera House, and um then also Fiddler at Arena.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_06: And finally, uh I own my own company, Motivated Movers, based out of New York, that teaches advanced beginner singer actors movement training.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_06: So that's me in a nutshell.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_05: So happy to have you.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_05: And Jesse is also on the IDA team, and she does a lot of our pre-screening of the IDA judges.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_05: So she listens to everybody's critiques and gets to help everybody become the onto the judging roster, and it's a really awesome job.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_05: So we're very grateful to have you on the IDA team, Jesse.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_05: And I am grateful to be on the IDA team, Courtney.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_06: So it's good to be wearing another hat tonight.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_05: Awesome.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_05: These three are fabulous.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_05: I can't wait to get in to this topic.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, guys, we're so thankful that you've spent your night with us tonight.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_04: So thank you so much for joining us.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_04: We are here to talk about musical theater, and this episode is based on a blog that we released back in May of 2018 on the IDA Judges blog.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_04: It is titled Bringing Broadway Dance to the Competition Stage.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_04: So if you're hungry for more musical theater information and tips and tricks to make your routine stand out, check out the show notes to find the link to read more at our blog website.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_04: All right, guys, let's jump right in because we have so much to talk about.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_04: This could be like a two-hour episode, but we're gonna cut it down, keep it nice and concise.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_04: Feel free, whoever wants to start.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_04: This is a very pageanty question.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_04: What is musical theater dance to you?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think we need to clarify very specifically what exactly musical theater dance is, because I think there is a tremendous misunderstanding based on a lot of stuff I've seen as to like, and especially in the context of a dance competition, what exactly is a musical theater?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: What it is not, I will say, is start there.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: Musical theater is not a jazz routine to show tunes with lip syncing.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: I can't say that enough.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: I also find that musical theater is not just another category you can enter because you want to diversify your student or yourself and have another shot perhaps at a different trophy or medal.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think that musical theater is actually one of the most difficult categories to really nail if done correctly, because there is the added theatrical element.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: So musical theater is a theatrical art form, which means that you are a character in a story that wants something from somebody else that is gonna play objectives to get that thing.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: Those objectives should be played in within the context of and served by the choreography.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: Never in a musical is there just like 32 fuetes for no reason because you want to show off your fuetes.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: That is just so not.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: If they're motivated, maybe, but probably so to tag on to that, if you want to do something that celebrates theater dance specifically, there is there are specific styles you can explore.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you are doing a cats routine or you are paying homage to cats or to a Flossi number or to anything like that, you can emulate the style of a choreographer, and as a teacher, you can really give your students some really useful information, especially if they're students that want to go and like audition in New York.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you want to do a chorus line number and you want to do that, Michael Bennett 5678, like show me that.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: I want to see that because that is training that a lot of us as judges have have had and it's familiar, and as audience members, we really react to it positively.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: So you already have us on your side.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: If you're playing a character in a story, you need to really do the research as to who this character is.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I can talk more about that at some other point.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: But just make sure that you are either paying homage to a musical theater choreographer that exists, or you are doing your own thing with it, but still telling the story and immersing the routine in a in a narrative that is active from an acting perspective.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_06: Absolutely.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_06: I I think too, uh, just to chime in that uh storytelling is also, you know, lyrical can also be really story lyric driven, right?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_06: And musical theater is can sometimes be viewed as the jazz version of that.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_06: So I think like to make sure that, you know, you could have a slower, you could do somewhere and from West Side Story.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_06: And that could be in the musical theater category, depending on how you did it and how it was done.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_06: Um I think that that would be perfectly acceptable.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_06: Also, you know, cats could also be depending on what song from cats you're doing.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_06: So I think it doesn't it lends itself to more jazz flavor, but it could, it's not necessarily it's not necessarily jazz.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mine was more definitely more of an academic approach.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: I said that he's we love that.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: But now encompasses movies and television as well.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, the Cats movie just came out and that's huge for everybody, as well as other, you know, made-for-TV movies and live live events that people are all into right now.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: So variety acts and dancers originally performed in the Vaudeville circuit that evolved into the dynamic musical theater that we know today.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: There are historical dance numbers from the musical theater canon, Agnes DeMille's Dream Ballet from Oklahoma is a prime example that added to the story without words or lyrics.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: The art form then evolved into the dance supported by lyrics or text, chorus line, like we were talking about, Westside's story that we talked about, really led the charge here where we see the characters' lyrics and movement working in harmony to create the plot to move really move the plot forward.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: The most recent evolution of musical theater involves more contemporary styles, me and Michael's choreography in Finding Neverland, Camille A.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Brown's choir boy and Once on This Island, that bring concert dance stylings to the musical theater stage.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Throughout all this evolution, musical theater dance coalesces character song and dance to express emotion that words can't do alone.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_04: So you guys are so good.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_04: So taking all of those things which all beautifully said in their own right, so put all of that into the world of dance competition.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_04: You have three minutes.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_04: You have three minutes.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_04: You have three minutes on a stage to tell a story.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_04: How can we help studio teachers who may or may not be academically versed in musical theater or have studied musical theater necessarily?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_04: What can we do?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_04: How do we make those numbers live in that world but at dance competition?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_04: Does that make sense?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Preparation research.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's not true.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: We all kind of noted that really quickly.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_06: And I think like there's something to be said for one of the things that I really valued from competing with musical theater was that my teacher really encouraged us to do our research, to create our characters.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_06: So for example, if we were doing, we did like a medley from Chicago, right?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_06: And not everyone was Roxy or Velma.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_06: There were ensemble.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_06: And I think that that's one thing that musical theater dance really embraces is the ensemble and how to become an ensemble, uh how to make an ensemble on stage and what that means.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_06: And an ensemble musical theater dancer doesn't have a name.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_06: They get to make it up themselves.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_06: They get to make their own circumstances up about why they're dancing.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_06: And so I think encouraging your dancers to do that, I find that that actually helps in lots of other genres of dance at a dance competition.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_06: I want to see though that kind of point of view in a contemporary dance.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_06: It's different, but I want to see that.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_06: So teaching your dancers that skill is huge.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_06: And musical theater is the perfect vehicle for that.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: And certainly for auditioning as well.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's a huge kind of component of uh successfully auditioning is walking in with something in mind already for the character.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_04: Definitely.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I will also say, like, I yelled YouTube earlier, but like we are now in this, like back in my day, we didn't have as extensive a resource at our fingertips.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like Amen.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: If you're doing a piece from like one ten in the shade, YouTube the Tony performance, and you know, maybe Wikipedia, the plot line, so that you know where the song you're dancing to happens in the story and what has just happened before it and what happens as a result of it.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: Not that you can like plan your objectives for the future, but I think as like a character in a story, it's really important to know your what we call given circumstances, who you are, where you're coming from, and what you want from the your invisible scene partner, which you know, you should always have in the back of your mind, whether it's someone from your own personal life.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: I always used to joke that like I always used to have somebody I I had a crush on sitting in the back of the house, like in my mind's eye, it was never actually somebody who was there, but it they made everything so much more active for me.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: So whoever that person is for you in the context of your story, whether it's like a love interest or a parent or your best friend, if you can put that person there in your mind's eye, it will help all of your acting objectives and keep them just a lot more active because you have a specific person in mind.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_06: Also, a lot of times we see musical theater as solos.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_06: So I would encourage teachers to allow their students to maybe do their song as a monologue, to be able to activate it as speech.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_06: And then if your studio is a performing art studio or your students have access to an acting teacher, treat the lyrics, the words of the dance as a monologue.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_06: And then if you can access it that way, for some students, that will be really helpful.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_06: And then that would shed some light on all these things we're talking about.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_06: So when doing a musical theater piece, you have all of the all of the access points of actually doing a musical, which is kind of great.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_06: I love that.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, get an acting teacher for your dance routine, and then you'll really start crafting your like triple threat-ness.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's so smart.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: This would still everything I was gonna say.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's something I literally have like this written down as like of exactly what you're saying of what has just happened before you go on stage and what's happening throughout the piece.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: Is is there information being revealed?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a big like beat that happens that changes the source of the storyline for the next two hours?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of times there is.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: My example was What You Want from Legally Blonde.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: There that literally propels the story for the next two hours on stage, but it can be come off as a really flouncy, fun number.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: It is, but there's a ton of storyline going on there, and really being able to know what happens at the very beginning, what's that kind of like light bulb moment, and at the very end, what's kind of happened now that we are moving into the story, and exactly what you were talking about, monologuing it as well.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: So especially if people prefer to, which is probably a whole nother hot topic of lip syncing.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: But uh collective drums.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_06: Can't wait.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: But especially if you're gonna lip sync of knowing the words, trying the words out, what words do you really want to hit at, you know, it just becomes so much more authentic that way and genuine that way.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: And also to tag on to what Max was saying about like the light bulb moment, when you are singing and dancing in a musical, it means that speech has evaded you.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like you have so such an intense, large feeling that like talking doesn't do it, singing doesn't do it.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: So now you're dancing about it.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: So always know that when you are performing a musical theater piece, it's never casual.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: It is the most heightened expression of human emotion on stage.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: So like it's just yeah, don't be afraid to be too much because chances are like it's right.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_05: You guys are so good.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_04: I know.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, do I even need to say anything?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_04: I love it.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_04: So, but I am gonna say something because I uh we we've let ourselves sort of into this place of a question I was gonna ask.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_04: So that is one of my pet peeves, Alex, is when people are on stage doing a musical theater dance and they're at like 65%.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_04: Because, like you said, musical theater is heightened, it's a heightened state of reality.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_04: Circumstances are way, you know, there are stakes, like it's so much bigger than just pointing your feet and kicking your leg.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_04: Like there's so much more going on.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_04: And so that is a huge pet peeve of mine is like, give me more, give me more.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_04: I need to be able to say come down instead of come up.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_04: So, what are y'all's biggest pet peeves about musical theater at competition?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_04: Uh-huh.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_04: I think I know what I'm gonna hear, but like let's tell the world.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: Should we say it on three?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: Three, two, one, live.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: Lip syncing.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_06: Don't do it.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_06: No, no, no.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_06: Here's the thing like, I think that lip syncing, I have really had to walk myself back from it because at first and on paper, lip syncing is really against most things that I stand for.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_06: Just because it's not, it's it's just not it's not intentional.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_06: It can be frequently when it's not done well, right?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_06: But I think that there are a lot of schools of thought say that lip syncing is okay.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_06: So I think if you're gonna do it, you gotta commit to it 100%.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_06: And I think what Leslie was saying about the stakes and what Alex was saying about the stakes is important.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_06: You have to have the stakes in place in order for lip syncing to work.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Max, what are your thoughts?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, lip syncing, of course.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: I go either way about it.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I once I started judging more in Canada, I realized that they they literally do, or the numbers I've I've seen there are literally monologues with maybe a few counts of eight.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's really their focus there.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think here in the US, we have a completely different w way of looking at musical theater dance.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: And the the biggest thing I get, and I we've kind of heard this echoed, is just a general wash of emotion of going on stage and feeling flirty or sassy or fun or angry and really not changing it up at all.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think like we've all kind of echoed that's one of the biggest mistakes in musical theaters really being that one note for as long as you can.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: I also think my my biggest pet peeve that I wrote about was exact restagings of numbers.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's really important for a lot of dancers to know that.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: And we kind of touched upon that at the beginning of you know, knowing specific dance numbers, but if you're really doing the entire piece of something, maybe it's not right for competition.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: It might be better for an exposition or for, you know, your recital.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's definitely important for dancers to know that recreation or how to approach this type of work, and certainly for auditioning, it's helpful, but for a competition piece, we really want to see that innovative and really showing your dancers in the best light.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_04: Well, because then it's you know, then you're forcing me as a judge to judge you doing Bob Fossey or you doing Which isn't always it's not fair.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_06: It's not always competitive at that point.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_06: I think you know, one of the things we talked about was that musical theater, a lot of teachers don't find musical theater as competitive.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_06: Well, if you're doing the original course line choreography on a panel of judges that don't necessarily have someone who can critique that well or not doesn't see the value, because I think a lot of dancers see the value in classic, you know, musical theater standards.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_06: But I think, you know, of course the dance that has a flawless turn combination and is gonna maybe score higher than that, you know?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_06: So I think you're not necessarily doing it's great for the classroom, but not necessarily doing your students the best service on the competition stage.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: So if I may, I actually disagree.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think that and respectfully, I respectfully disagree because of course I see what you're saying, and I would rather I I think that if we were talking about a lyrical dance and somebody is just recreating something they saw and say you think you didn't dance, like that I would I would agree with you on.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: But in terms of musical theater, like there is a canon of of work, specifically like a west side story or a chorus line, where you actually might be doing that choreography in an audition room, and why not give your students the opportunity to try it out before they go in for West Side Story?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I I would obviously, as a judge, rather.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Original choreography, but I think that from an educational perspective, and if it's something like you're bringing to competition, why not give your kids the experience of trying to do something eight shows a week if you're doing it again and again and again on different stages, especially like take it on tour and do all the competitions?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think that there is educational merit in doing original choreography, just as long as it's like not, I don't know, that they're being challenged in other ways to learn creatively other things also.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that maybe for the classroom, and and I don't completely disagree because obviously again, I would rather see something original, but like if you want to restage America, like give me that because I want to see that.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_05: I've never seen that on the composition stage.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_05: Like I've never seen it done.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_05: I know I rarely see it actually, America in general, but oh yeah.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_04: That would be exciting.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_04: Because it's a really hard song to choreograph too.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_04: Remember, I tried to do that this year, and I was like, never mind.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: This is also true.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: I will and also to tag in about like lip syncing in Canada.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: So um I grew up competing musical theater in Canada, and we do the whole shebang.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: We sing, dance, and act the whole routine, which is why for me, lip syncing is such a trigger because you're, in my humble opinion, you're stealing somebody else's art.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: You're sit you're taking somebody else's voice and pretending it's your own.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: And even if it's just in the context of a competition, and you know, I would never accuse a student of doing that in a competition because I I know where we are and what we're doing.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: I challenge students maybe to tell the the story with their facial expressions with specific focus instead of going into like soft focused dance land where you don't actually look at anything.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like do all the work that you would do were you lip syncing, but I just it drives me insane to see ki kids and and young dancers lip syncing because I think then you spend all this time learning the words.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: But if you want to learn how to sing, dance, and act, you should also be learning how to learn music, how to how to support your breath while you're doing crazy things and trying to hold a pitch at the same time.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: If as an exercise somebody wanted to try singing and dancing at the same time, or I don't know if there are any competitions that let you do that, but there are.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: Well then I say do that because otherwise just dance.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think that in the context of a dance competition, it's not, in my opinion, I I would just much rather see somebody doing all the work without the lip syncing.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with you about the um the educational aspects as well.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a huge emphasis and a huge growth of people wanting to be quote unquote triple threats or have that training in high school and in in especially in the competition world.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I definitely see the merit of performing those things, but there's also the high school musical to do that in, right?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: So not to discredit any of that.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: I I we we want to see canonical work on the competition stage.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: It does help us, you know, really connect.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: There is a huge educational outcome there of what of what dancers are learning and how we help them learn.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: And certainly from a great field from y'all, people who are on all these natural tours, being able to tell you this is exactly what this meant, or I've been on this tour and I can show you, you know, this is what this lyric meant or this is why this happens where.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a great connection.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't want to also discredit folks and say, definitely don't do something that's already been done before.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's a huge educational uh impact on one how you learn that type of specific work, especially when it's it may be a period piece or something that's totally out of your comfort zone.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: And we I think we're all very aware of the types of things that we see constantly at competitions, and so sometimes it can be a really strong breath of fresh air to get away from that.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I agree with everything y'all are saying, and I kind of want to talk on the lip sync thing for a minute because I feel like that that's a big topic uh when it comes to what you initially think of as far as like competitive dance and musical theater, at least in the United States, which is where we're all located and judge majority of the time.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_05: So, you know, for the the studios that do believe that lip sync is essential, I mean, hopefully people are gonna be listening to this podcast, they're gonna be hearing all five of us say, we don't really love lip syncing.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_05: Like, you know, all of us are kind of are saying that.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_05: Are we going to take points off because you are lip syncing this season?
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_06: No, definitely not.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_05: Definitely not taking points off from your score.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_05: But like as a pre a personal preference of us five as individuals, we all are kind of like, yeah, you know, I would prefer to see you act through it with your facial expressions and your emotion, and we don't need that extra layer of lip sync.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_05: Now, I will say, just, you know, I, in my personal opinion, I don't hate a lip sync.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_05: I d I don't prefer it, but I don't hate it if it's done correctly, if it's done with acting and if it's if it's committed from beginning to end, and it actually looks believable.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_05: I might let it be like I it won't distract me from your performance.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_05: It'll hopefully let you become your character.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_05: And I will say that like my very first professional job, which wasn't on in a musical or on Broadway, was with Leslie doing Royal Caribbean.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_05: And guess what?
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_05: We had a lip we lip synced on stage.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_04: So although I did actually sing because I was like, I'm just gonna sing.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_04: That's stupid.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_05: And I was like, I don't know how to sing.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_05: So I didn't.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_05: And I so I will say I never lip sync when I was in competition.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_05: That wasn't something that we did in musical theater, but I will say it is a skill to know how to do in professional career.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_05: You might need to know how to do it, but is that what we want to see?
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_05: Maybe not.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_05: I'd rather see you just act it out.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_04: So well, in my opinion about that is if your piece is choreographed well, you do not need to lip sync.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_04: To me, that lip sync is a crutch.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_04: Because if you've choreographed it in that your movement is telling the story, I don't need your mouth to tell the story.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_04: I can see it and I can hear it through, you know, whoever is singing the song.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_04: I hear the words, I see you dancing, story done.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_04: But if you're doing Sha Se Ball change and it's not doing anything, and then you're lip syncing over it to be able to tell me the story, you know, that changes things.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that's something for teachers to really think about.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_04: And again, like we've said, you can gloss over the uh some other uh styles of dance, but musical theater is so story-based, you can't just wash it over with one emotion.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_04: And so that's when your choreography has to really do its own work and, you know, go through the highs and the lows and the yeses and the no's in the story, because otherwise you're just you're moving your mouth around.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_06: I do think that uh Courtney made a really good point.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_06: It can be just distracting when it's not done well.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_06: And the last thing you want to do as a choreographer is to create something that is going to be pulling my attention away from being able to actually adjudicate your dancer well and be able to find the things that they actually need to hear.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_06: And I would hate to, you know, when I find myself being being distracted by lip sync, I have to immediately turn it off because then you're then the critique becomes about lip sync, and that's unfortunate in a lot of ways.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_06: Also, I would say that one of my pet peeves, kind of going back, is that a lot of times musical theater dance can be put off on maybe dancers that aren't as technically sound.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_06: And I think that that's a real cheat because you don't necessarily know what to do with the dancer.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_06: And so you're like, oh, let's just like throw them in a musical theater number.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, what are they gonna do?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_06: They're gonna do positive from Legally Blonde, right?
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_06: So if that is the route that you need to go, I encourage you as a teacher and as a dancer to really take ownership and figure out what you can get out of the number, which I think is going back to in our conversation talking about doing your research, making the characters like how can you make the number the best it can be when it's not necessarily the most technically advanced number that you might have in your roster of dances.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: I was just gonna say quickly, the it's exactly what we've been talking about, using it also as an educational tool to if you have someone who is maybe not as technically savvy, but they're very interested in performing, this is how you teach them to become a strong performer, like we've all noted, really using the preparation time, using the storytelling.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: We know we don't always have that time in rehearsal, the rehearsal process or in the studio, but for something like this, you might actually have time to do it, and there's less maybe technical dancing that's going to happen.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: So you can really apply this on top of that.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it's actually more of a challenge in some ways because you're adding asking someone to do something they're not always the most comfortable with doing, but it's really gonna help their performing in the end.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: Both of you took the words out of my mouth.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_05: Thinking about soloists at competition, what are your thoughts on like practically a jazz routine with a musical theater song?
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_05: Because I think that we think that, you know, because it's competition dance, we need to have trick, trick, trick, trick, trick.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_05: And are we looking for something differently as far as the context in the movement quality for the musical theater category?
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_05: Like, yes, we know that we prefer to see maybe not, we don't we really don't want to see lip singing.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_05: We want to see you act your character.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_05: We understand that there needs to be a character.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_05: We hope that the song is from a musical or a movie musical or something from Broadway.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_05: Then the next layer is the actual movement in the choreography.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_05: What are we looking for?
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that we want something that maybe emulates or tips the hat if you are gonna go uh in the stronger dance direction, which at a dance competition will often happen.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: So if you are gonna do something that is perhaps fossil-based, maybe something from Chicago or Sweet Charity or something like that, maybe see what the original choreography looks like and then pay homage to what that style is like.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't have to be the original choreography as we discussed previously.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, if you could make a nod to like the bowler hat or the teacup hands or whatever, make sure that you you are educated in what the context of this piece as a whole is, because in addition to musical theater being about like the actual plot of the musical and what's happening in the story, there's also a greater context in regards to where it fits in the greater canon of Broadway dance.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say it let the piece and and the history of the piece dictate the movement.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: And if after doing that research, you're like, well, I want to do my own thing, that's fine, but just make sure that you're educated like in the story and the context and stylistically what this is.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_06: Well, so I have a little bit of a challenge to this question because I a hundred percent agree with everything that Alex said.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_06: I think that paying homage to the historical aspects of the piece, you know, doing bye-bye blackbird, I want to see some homage to Fosse somewhere, whether it's the costume, whether it's the movement, I want to see it somewhere.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_06: But I think if you go take a musical theater dance class, if you go take a theater dance class in New York City, how often do you actually use musical theater music?
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_06: Right?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_06: It's like uh Jamie Collum is one of my favorite artists that I think embodies a lot of musical theater qualities in his music.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_06: He's very jazz, but I think that I see him use sometimes in in competition for musical theater.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_06: And it's like, what is the what is it about that kind of jazz music that calls us to musical theater?
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_06: I don't know, but I think that I think quality of movement definitely is something that's important and does make it musical theater.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_06: So and it's I think it's also stylized, just broadly stylized, right?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_06: Like because jazz, I know Courtney loves a good, like strong jazz number, but that is not musical theater, right?
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_06: So so finding that that style, and I know that that's broad, but I think that that kind of can encompass it.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_06: It doesn't necessarily it has to be stylized in some way.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_06: It has to, it has to have a little more meat to it.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_05: Well, yeah, I mean, that's what I'm glad that you brought that up because that was something I was gonna kind of ask after was something like what you just described, Jesse.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_05: I kind of classify that as like a theater jazz, I guess.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_05: And that's a great point.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_05: And not musical theater, yeah.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_05: That might be different than musical theater.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_05: And I feel like like a classic jazz, like a technical classic jazz that's stylized and oozy and what you would take in Brahma Dance Center.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_05: Where do we place that at competition?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_05: Especially now with like how everything's all getting blurred, we have fusion dance everywhere here, there, like no one knows what to put what in every category.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_05: Like in my head, I don't I think like for competition purposes, I might put theater jazz in the jazz category and then put musical theater, like you are a character, you are the songs from a musical in the musical theater category.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I think that's a great way to think about it because I think then too, as a teacher, you're making sure, well, you're hoping that then your students are going to be competing against in their own category at least, like dances, because then some more like fusion dance isn't going to be up against the original choreography from chorus law, right?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_06: Because then we run into that, is it competitive?
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's just not fair.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: And then also it'll stick out stylistically because if you're putting something that's like a classic Jack Cole style, like jazzy jazz piece in like the same category as like heavy bass jump split jazz, it's still technically jazz.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that a that contrast as a as a judge who's sitting there viewing it's it's something very different that catches our attention.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: And also, like it kind of, I don't know, these competitions are also educational experiences for everybody.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: And if you know somebody comes in and says, you know, this jump split jazz is is the same category as these cool shapes and lines that are really low to the ground and like concave and all that stuff.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's a really cool way to kind of share and grow and challenge the art form within the the context of a dance competition.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I I would love to see a classic jazz number that might maybe blur the line between musical theater and jazz and put it in a jazz routine or a jazz category, rather.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to say I think the filter that we keep on going back to is the idea of acting or a character, and sometimes that's the more prevalent part of musical theater dance versus if you have a strong contingency like we have here tonight, that we're able to talk about all the different styles of jazz there within, right?
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: There's all these different types of things, different musics, different stylings, different qualities of motion.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: The one addition that we're talking about is the character or the story being this really serving that, and that's a huge differentiator too.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, of course you should be acting through all your all your dance, but we're we're we're all really sounding off on saying that there's a huge emphasis on the character, the plot, all of our stakes that we've been talking about.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that might be a strong filter as well if you're really deciding where this should where it should be competed in level or category, yeah.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's category, that's the word, thank you.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_04: I feel the exact same way that there is there is a difference between musical theater and theater dance.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_04: And when I go teach, a lot of people hire me to teach musical theater.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_04: And sometimes I don't want to do musical theater.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_04: So I come in and I do theater dance.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_04: I do something to a Jamie Collins song or something like that that has that feel, that has that style, and I'm very clear to the students, which I think is uh maybe something that a lot of teachers can also work on, is to say this is not musical theater because because it's not I'm a I'm a purist.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_04: I want your song to be from a musical and a movie musical.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_04: I don't particularly want it to be from a Disney movie, but I'll give you a pass.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_04: I really kind of don't want it to be from like high school musical before it was a musical.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_04: I've not like I want it to be very specific, but then you have to be specific about again what it is not.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_04: It is not theater dance because I can walk into Broadway Dance Center and dance to a Michael Bublé song, and that's theater dance, like if it's done correctly.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_04: So I I do love the idea of just like putting a theater dance, jazz dance into the jazz category.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yay, jazz.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_04: I can't wait.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_05: I love dance.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_04: Somebody do that soon.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_05: Do it.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_06: Switch it for nationals.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_05: Switch it for national.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_05: Another thing that's kind of worth mentioning is and you guys are all like very knowledgeable in musical theater.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_05: Like very, like you guys probably know.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_05: I'm talking about all four of you because I I'm putting myself in the category where I probably don't know a lot of of musical theater because I am surrounded by it.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_05: I live in New York City, I audition forward, and I've seen my fair share of musicals, but I don't know like everyone ever.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_05: And there have been times where I've been sitting on the judging panel where I'm like, I don't know what this is from.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I have no idea what musical this is from.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_05: And then I feel like an uneducated judge because I don't know what this is from, but that's not true because there's gonna be so many judges that don't know what musical this is from.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_05: And it's probably a good thing in a way, because it means that you probably picked a song that we haven't heard a million times at competition.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_05: Which is great.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_05: Because I think that a lot of teachers struggle with finding songs from musical theater.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_05: For some reason, everyone goes back to the same few that we've heard a thousand million times.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_05: Will y'all name some of them for?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_05: Let's name some.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_06: Popular.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_06: All that jazz.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_06: All that jazz.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, popular.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_06: Oh man, popular.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_06: What you want.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: All the Legal Bond songs.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: Roxy from Chicago.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: Anything from Matilda.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, Matilda, Revolt All Children.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Anything from Chicago.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: Or or well, for that matter, Sweet Charity too, I guess if we're going down the posse.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_06: Mm-hmm.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_06: I feel like I haven't seen that much.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_06: I love Sweet Charity.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_06: Wicked, Grease.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_05: I feel like we don't even know if that's that appropriate for some of the German.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, any anything that's been like a TV, like on TV recently.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly what I was gonna say.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_06: Like that's all, I feel like really overdone.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_06: But I feel like if you're looking for material, look at the Tony's.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_06: Like, look at all of the musicals that have been either nominated for best choreography or best musical.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_06: And then you're actually killing two birds with one stone because you're probably going to YouTube, you're probably watching the performance, and then what are you also doing?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_06: Researching the movement style.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_06: Boom.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_04: And then they're also suggesting more that are like this.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_04: And so you can just go down the rabbit hole.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_05: I think that one thing that teachers probably struggle with because I feel like I do, I teach Broadway at conventions often.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_05: And I do feel like it is hard to find age appropriate, enough age appropriate material.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, you you think about it and you're like, oh my gosh, well, duh, there's so many like musicals for kids, but like there's only so many.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_05: So then you can only use those songs, you know.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_06: And that's when the Disney stuff I think comes into play, which is because that's that's makes sense.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_06: You know that it's there's there's no question that it's age appropriate.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_06: I also think it's worth saying, like, are there children in the musical?
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_06: Because like, or you know, I think stuff from Bye Bye Birdie, like put on a happy face, I never see and gosh, like that song just makes me so happy.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_06: Annie, I feel like also doesn't really get done that much.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, I see a lot of Annie, a lot of hard knock for you.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's true.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_04: But maybe, maybe not what's the one with Rooster and Grace and Easy Street.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_04: Easy, easy screen.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_04: Like you use songs for the musicals that aren't, it's a hard knock life.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_04: You know, like find that secondary song.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_04: Or like we were saying, look at the Tonies, look at your off-Broadway musicals.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_04: Look at your, you know, workshop labs that somehow got produced and that's sitting around on Spotify and nobody's listening to.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like dig a little deeper because there's dig a little deeper from there's also there's with all of the BFA musical theater programs that exist now, there are also BFA writing musical theater programs, and a lot of these students will write art songs for their fellow students.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: These students will record them, put them on YouTube, and then you can you can get them off of YouTube or you know, contact.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: I would contact the composer directly and try to get it that way.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_02: But there are lots of like art songs that exist in their own vacuums that are still musical theater.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'll never forget.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: I saw a routine to this, I forget the name of the song or who it's by, but it's about Michael, the boy she locked in her case.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's, I mean, it's hilarious.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: If you have a kid or a student rather, that is funny, that is expressive, like that's a and that was a really great piece because it doesn't exist in like this traditional dance musical theater world that the choreographer took the abilities of this student that maybe perhaps her acting was her strength, not her dance technique, because she was learning her dance technique and the teacher played to this dancer's strengths.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_02: And the piece, I like I'm still thinking about it three years later.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it was so unique.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_06: Also, you can look at musical theater performers who have made CDs.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_06: A lot of times that's a great way to find that stuff.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_06: And also, I don't know, like Kierrigan and Louder Milk, like smaller, not as well known composers who maybe haven't had their Broadway hit have definitely put something out on Spotify.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, yeah.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_06: Songs like this.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, a hundred percent.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_06: And that will also really pique the interest of people on the judging panel because they won't have heard that before and they'll recognize it.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_06: And maybe it's in their audition book and they sing it.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_06: And how fun is that to get to see that, you know?
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I mean, and that kind of goes right back around to what I was initially saying about that there may be times as, you know, let's say I choreographed a routine for the competition stage, and the judges don't know what it's from.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_05: You know, you never know what judging panel you're gonna get.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_05: You don't know how much musical theater knowledge they have.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_05: And you've done your research, you've tried to attribute the show, you, you know, saw the before and after, all the things we talked about.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_05: You did all of the things, but the judges just didn't know what it's from.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_05: What do we do as as teachers at that point?
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_05: Do are we like I feel like that I've sat on the judging panel before and I've felt like I feel bad because I don't know, or sometimes maybe like the dance isn't being portrayed properly, like the because I don't know what it's from.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_05: So, like, what can we do as teachers to make sure that we're getting all of these points across, I guess, for like, do we need to like go really literal with the costumes to make it very clear, like this is from this musical, you know, things like that.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_05: Do we really want that?
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_02: I think that if you've done your your work and all the things that we've collectively said as a panel, that if you have a character that has a clear objective and the a student that is doing all their acting work, it doesn't matter because we can look at the piece as a musical within itself if it if it's well crafted and there's a beginning, a middle, and an end, and you're telling a story and you're playing those acting objectives, like it you're doing the work right.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it makes sense to me as a judge.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: And again, like obviously I come with this with this education, but I think as long as you you do the work, it it should stand on its own regardless of whether or not the piece is familiar to your panel.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I feel like that that's kind of where I wanted to go with this question is that I feel like that there Maybe teachers out there who will are feeling like I've done all of the things and the judges didn't get it, or the judges didn't know it.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_05: And that doesn't mean that they're uneducated.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_05: It just means that you did a good job at finding a song that the judges haven't heard before, made me want to go see this musical now.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_05: Like, wow, what was that?
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_05: I need to go listen to the soundtrack.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_05: Like, this is awesome.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_05: I can't wait to see this show.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_06: I have found that before at from competitions.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_06: Been like, man, what song what show is this from?
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_06: And then had to and someone else on the panel knew it, or I went and typed in the lyrics into Google when I got home to my hotel room later that night and found it.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_06: And that's a really great gift.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_05: Because I think that if because there have been times where if I knew what the show what song the show was from, I would be able to take in the actual routine that I'm judging and watching better because I just didn't know the context of what the show was.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_05: And maybe, honestly, maybe that could be like a requirement at competition is to include the show, the musical that the song is from.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_06: I love that.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_06: That's great.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_05: That way it's like printed in the like, you know, this song put it in the title.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, put it in the colour.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_05: Literally from whatever it's from.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_05: Because that could be that would be so helpful.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_06: That's also brilliant, Leslie.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_06: That's just like a hack.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that would be a great hack that we should include in competition for everyone.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_05: So we can all like be like, great, I'm watching a Chicago routine.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_05: Great, I'm watching a West Side story routine, whatever it is.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: While we're talking about like picking rep, I just want to talk about maybe like because Chicago and Sweet Charity and all these Flossy shows have such a rich dance history, they tend to be like sort of easy go-tos.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that if we're doing our research as teachers, like be really aware of what the story is about and who these characters are that you're putting sometimes young children on stage as.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I really don't want to see a 16 and under to big spender.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_02: I I I know this song is great, but like do your research.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what is a taxi dancer?
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_02: What is sweet charity about?
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, who are these women that these children are playing?
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: It just doesn't upset me because, like, you know, this is the 21st century of the internet, but like it just it's so obvious to me that you haven't done your research because like if you really understood the context of this piece, you would not have put these children on stage doing this routine.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_06: It's just uncomfortable.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_06: It's uncomfortable for everybody, and then and it's again what Courtney was saying about like distracting the judges.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_06: Anything that's gonna distract the judges from being able to properly adjudicate your your dancers just isn't fair.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_06: So just don't do it.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: That was literally in my notes for those two examples because I feel like I see those often.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it is it's not only awkward, but exactly what you're saying.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: It shows that you haven't done your research and also that you're somewhat limited in what you the pre the pre-work that you did to look at what you wanted your dancers to learn.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: There's definitely other types of musicals or musicals from that genre and that have the same style choices, that have the same costuming choices.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: I also wrote about that musical theater dance is difficult because you're really trying to add in production value without having it there and you don't have the rights.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have the you know, you don't have the costuming, you don't have sets that move and things like that.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to rely on other things, and when we're relying on those things as well and we're already uncomfortable, it becomes one of those things where we're just taken out of it right away.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: And there's so many other things that might have served your students better than putting them in this role that they they're not eligible to play yet.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I think, you know, speaking to all of those points, you know, musical theater, we were gonna treat it just the same as we are anything else.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_04: It needs to be appropriate, it needs to be costumed appropriately, it needs to be costumed in a way that serves the time period of the musical.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_04: That goes down to your shoes.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_04: And yes, you should be wearing shoes unless you're T-moon and once on this island.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_05: Heels and also heels.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_05: We love heels.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, heels, heels.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, depending depending on the style of the show, but yeah, like well, yes.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, as yeah.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, Jesse and Courtney and I have all auditioned together, and like you wouldn't dream of showing up to a musical theater audition without your heels.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_02: You bring your heels, you always bring them.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_06: And honestly, my studio trained us in heels from a young age, like from you know, 13 or 14.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_06: We started working in heels, and I would say that it is because of that training that I am able to wear my three-inch heels at auditions and do a triple pirouette when I'm asked because I've had years and years and years of training in those heels.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_06: And so you're te and you're teaching your students the gift you're giving your students by putting them in a heel for a a two and a half, three minute number is it can change their life in the long run.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, we we really didn't touch on, you know, costuming, and I'm glad we're talking about the what's appropriate for the stage.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_05: But in regards to costuming, I agree.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_05: I I really, really want to see dancers working in heels more often if they have the ability to.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_05: I know that means that it uh you have to buy another shoe, but uh all of us can't stress enough how important it is for female dancers to be learning and understanding how to dance in heels.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_05: If you get your point shoes, guess what?
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_05: You get your heels for jazz class too.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_05: Like that should be another uh element to your training if you want to pursue a career in dance or musical theater.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_05: So uh, you know, teen and older, I say grab your heels, start with a two, start two and a half inch heel, work up to three, and uh you know, try it out in jazz class and uh strut across the floor and see what it feels like and learn how to leap in heels and learn how to do all of that.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_05: And I do feel like we are seeing uh heels uh entering the competition stage more frequently these days, which is so exciting.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_05: I'm always like, ooh, you get a bonus point for attempting to dance in heels.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_05: Yay, I love you.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_05: So it's it's a great thing.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_05: I think we all probably agree with that.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_05: All right, y'all.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_05: Well, unfortunately, we have to wrap up this conversation, even though I want to talk about this all night long with all three of you, all four of you.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_05: But does anybody have any final thoughts in regards to musical theater at competition?
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_05: Go.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_06: I love it.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_06: Don't be afraid of it.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_06: I think it's a really great gift you can give your students, and especially if it's something that you're all committed to, really doing well and doing your research, I think it can really pay off.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_06: So be brave and choose musical theater.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_05: We hope you enjoyed this week's episode about musical theater at Dance Competition.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_05: If you'd like to follow our guests on social media, you can find Alex at Alex Furlinger, Max at MX underscore VSP, and Jesse at Jesse K Miller.
• 50:14
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• 50:20
  SPEAKER_05: We love hearing from all of you listeners, and we may even share your review live on the air in an upcoming episode.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_04: Do you have a dance competition question you've been dying to ask a judge?
• 50:30
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• 50:31
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• 50:36
  SPEAKER_04: Submit your questions to us on our website at www.impactdanceadjudicators.com slash podcast via audio or text.
• 50:45
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• 50:49
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• 50:50
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• 50:54
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• 50:58
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• 51:05
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• 51:11
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• 51:13
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• 51:18
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• 51:21
  SPEAKER_04: Coming up on the next few episodes of Making the Impact, we've got the April edition of QA with Courtney, a special senior spotlight episode, and much more.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_04: Stay tuned.