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Our Right to Dignity · Outside Issues

• 0:00
  Speaker A: I didn't get a chance to put in the show notes last week any charitable foundations or any, you know, I didn't provide any information for how folks can give to the children starving in Palestine or those suffering from the genocide and the famine.
• 0:18
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 0:18
  Speaker A: And so in the show notes this week, I have the Palestinian Children's Relief Fund, the PCRF, and then the Semier Project, and I have links for both of those on Good authority. These are great places where even the smallest donation will make a material difference in the lives of these people that are just living on the absolute edge of existence and fighting for their next breath. And I made a couple of small donations earlier this week. You know, it's the. It's the end of the month, so I'm not exactly flush, but I just. The way that I try to look at it is like, well, what's the next coffee? I'm going to go get out somewhere. Or what's the next little. Little, like luxury, you know, or comfort for myself and do I really need that? And if I don't really need that, then maybe somebody else who is really needs it could benefit from it. So that's just me, my personal, kind of like one way I'm working through it. So the links will be in the show notes if you're so interested. And. Yeah, and that's it. I just felt like that was some unfinished business from last week.
• 1:29
  Speaker B: Cool. Yeah, I'll check them out for sure. And I just got paid, so I'll donate.
• 1:42
  Speaker C: What is it you wanted me to reconcile myself to? I was born here almost 60 years ago. I'm not gonna live another 60 years. You always told me it takes time. It's taking my father's time, my mother's time, my uncle's time, my brother's and my sister's time, my nieces and my nephew's time. How much time do you want for your progress?
• 2:05
  Speaker A: Welcome to Outside Issues with Audrey and Patrick.
• 2:11
  Speaker B: My clients, my co workers, we're all hormonal. I don't know, it's like a blood moon rising kind of thing going on.
• 2:20
  Speaker A: Is that good? Does that help that you've got like, you know, solidarity? You're doing it, you're going through at the same time. Or would it be better if you just had like some different energies?
• 2:28
  Speaker B: I think it's good that we're going through this at. Through the same time that happens when you live with like, if you live with different, like female AFAB folks, for example, a sober living with 10 people. Everyone's going to get in sync. So everybody's all crying and using tampons at the same time.
• 2:51
  Speaker A: Audrey origin story.
• 2:53
  Speaker B: Yes. Audrey lore. Yeah, I was in Redondo beach, and it was called the House of Miracles, and it's been shut down since. Pretty much all of my recovery friends are from that house. God, I've met such good memories. Got my sponsor over at that house. I want to say, like, my big sister. She's my. My friend Dominique. She's like my big sister. Met her. She was my roommate.
• 3:17
  Speaker A: There's something about those early days where. Where we were also raw and we hadn't really figured out a manner of living yet which could, you know, sustain our. Our choice to now not just drown everything in chemicals and. Yeah, I mean, it was just. It was special. Like, I had a lot of fun. I. Did you ever happen to go to the Young Peeps meeting at the South Baylon Club? I love that meeting. I mean, I remember I went to my first, like, party, sober party in my first year. It was for Halloween, and I had. It been forever since I experienced that, where I just sat with, like, a monster energy drink or something. I had some kind of caffeinated beverage and everybody else did, and we were all just a little bit awkward and just like, not really comfortable in our own skin. But because we were all not comfortable in our own skin, there was a very pleasurable vibe to it all. And, like, I'll always just remember that I felt like it was going to be okay.
• 4:18
  Speaker B: Doesn't the young people meeting have a gong, or is that something different?
• 4:22
  Speaker A: Gong show is a different meeting and a lot of the same. There's a lot of crossover. It's like a lot of the same. People go to both, but they're. Yeah, both. Both are very, like. I don't want to say hip. You know, there's not. Not a lot hip about being an aa, but definitely, like, I guess there can be getting.
• 4:40
  Speaker B: Call yourself an alcoholic. It has some sort of, like, power to it. I don't know.
• 4:45
  Speaker A: One of my idols is Marc Maron, who he podcasts, you know, so that kind of got me into podcasting in general was just through listening to wtf. And he's also long time sober. Watching his comedy and. And watching he made a show about his life and, you know, listen to the podcast episodes where, like, I almost got like a kind of a rock star. There was a rock star energy to it, but it was absent.
• 5:10
  Speaker B: Or the energy energy.
• 5:13
  Speaker A: No, the. The. Just the energy of him, I thought, and like, his lifestyle and what he'd been able to forge in his recovery was, like, very aspirational. But he was a guy who loved. He is a guy who loves drugs and alcohol and. And, you know, cigarettes and all the yummy stuff, but just chose to abstain, but, like, kind of kept the spirit, I guess, like a rebel spirit. And he was one of the first people that showed me before I got sober that it could be fun and kind of cool and an identity that you could wear on your sleeve and not be ashamed of it.
• 5:49
  Speaker B: I got a long way to go in my healing journey, but part of my healing journey was accepting that I'm addicted to substances. And I always kind of will be. There's always going to be a risk. It's just not. Not something I can do anymore. I can never have alcohol. I can never have drugs.
• 6:07
  Speaker A: So I attended a really amazing meeting earlier today and got to lead. And it was the Beyond Belief Agnostics and Free Thinkers meeting in Toronto. So some Canadians in there. It's always great. I always remember with Zoom that you get to, like, step into these international fellowships.
• 6:26
  Speaker B: Yeah, I have yet to do that, which is kind of crazy, but awesome.
• 6:32
  Speaker A: Wait, really?
• 6:33
  Speaker B: I have never attended an international meeting. No.
• 6:36
  Speaker A: Well, this is gonna sound cheesy, but you are depriving people of yourself. You gotta do it. And I will. I'll get some links together and send them to you. Some good ones that you could. Might. Maybe we can do them together. But. Yeah, but I got to share our podcast with them, and they liked what I had to say, obviously, and they seem really stoked about, you know, there's my other podcast, Emotional Sobriety, and then this one. And. And, you know, I got to advertise it. You know, I got to give them the complete pitch, which is, you know, this is more politically oriented. And then the other one is, you know, strictly, you know, recovery and mental health. But, yeah, like, I. Not only, you know, just the possibility of having some content to listen to, to kind of, like, you know, help them with their program, but also just that I gave voice to, like, the political turmoil that a lot of us are feeling, but there's not always, like, a safe space to talk about it in these 12 step groups, because, yeah, I mean, just for reasons we've gone over so we can bring some more people into the fold. I'm kind of excited.
• 7:50
  Speaker B: So I have a lot of clients who are very. In, very much in distress about what's going on in the world. And so our sort of plan is like. Like, triaging, like, where you are on, like, the. The totem of distress, the totem pole of distress. So it's like sort of at the highest top, you have somebody who's reading the news every. Every moment of every day and being so distressed that you, like, sort of isolate yourself and close in on yourself. That requires some moderation and kind of just like alcohol. I think we were talking about being a political junkie, but that kind of is at the top of seriousness. Then there's, you know, people who feel helpless and. But they can't watch the news because it's too triggering to them, which politically. And then personally, I would have, like, I would have a problem with that because I personally believe even if it's triggering, you gotta. You gotta know what's going on. Because if your head is in the sand, then what are we doing? I don't know how else to explain it.
• 9:08
  Speaker A: Yeah, well, find maybe the way to, like, to deepen that would be to, say, to find some toehold and like, involvement with, you know, the broader society. Get involved somehow, you know, get. Have some kind of community consciousness. It could be in your, you know, your. A fellowship, you know, or it could be at your workplace. There's a lot of ways to take your head out of the sand, I guess, is what I'm saying.
• 9:32
  Speaker B: Yeah, sure. Yeah, that's. And then that's the sort of. The second distress tolerance I. I teach is if. If it's really triggering to you, go into a community, you know, go to a. Talk to another person, just one person, you know, because we, as we know, being in Alcoholics Anonymous, it just takes two people to form a meeting. So just being in a community, talking about it and like you said, going to do other things, like, kind of like what we're doing. So what I've maybe stupidly done this week is talk about our podcast with my clients because they have been very distressed about what's going on.
• 10:17
  Speaker A: You brought to my attention something really heinous. Yay. Another heinous thing to. To explore. I loved Ryan was such a joy, you know, because that was like. That was the episode that we. About Disability Pride Month, where we really got to look into the light side of the moon. And yeah, we're back to our. We're back on our old shit. So you could. You could set it up, I guess. Audrey.
• 10:45
  Speaker B: Yeah. So Trump signed an executive order and. Well, really two executive orders that as a social worker, as a mental health professional, I am disgusted by and ready to put up a fight, because what's going to be happening is a catastrophe, a mental health catastrophe, a houseless person catastrophe, an addiction catastrophe. And that's the bill he signed that's titled Ending Crime and Disorder on America's Streets. So I'm gonna go ahead and read the bill. I mean, the executive order directly from the White House, bits of it. Endemic vagrancy, disorderly behavior, sudden confrontation. Sudden confrontations and violent attacks have been made, have made our cities unsafe. The number of individuals living on the streets in the United States on a single night during the last year of the previous administration, 274 to 24, was the highest ever recorded. Nearly two thirds of homeless individuals report having regularly used hard drugs like methamphetamines, cocaine, or opiates in their lifetimes. Shifting homeless individuals into long term, keyword, long term institutional settings for humane treatment through the appropriate use of civil commitment will restore public order. In addition to this week shutting down the sector of the 988 Suicide and Crisis Hot lifeline for LGBTQ individuals that exists no longer. I think I. I would be damned if I remember when it first started. But 988 suicide and crisis Hotline is an incredible tool for us as professionals. So now we're diverting LGBTQ folks who are feeling suicidal, who would like to speak to somebody in, like, while they're in crisis, to places like the Trevor Project, which I'm sure that people know. So these. These two things have ir. I mean, irritate is not the right word. Infuriated me this last week.
• 13:27
  Speaker A: This is a moralistic framing of homelessness. This is like a punitive framing of homelessness. You know, it's been going on in America for a long time under neoliberalism, looking at, you know, these systemic crises as individual and moral failings. And. And this is kind of like, this has got that Trump razzle dazzle. So it's taking an ideology that's been ongoing and just kind of like making it even more brutal.
• 13:52
  Speaker B: The first thing that I recognized or the thing that stands out to me and other professionals is there's no more 72 hour holds for homeless individuals. In 72 hour holds, you have to be one out of three categories. You have to have suicidal ideation, homicidal ideation, or have a grave disability. And so, and it's really sort of like in and out and really specific with that criteria. So if you report to somebody, say, like a therapist, that you have plan, a plan and intent and means to kill yourself, that is a legal basis to get you in an institution for 72 hours at the very least.
• 14:40
  Speaker A: Got it.
• 14:41
  Speaker B: Yes. And then the medical staff or the hospital staff sort of determines how long that you would stay there. There's legalities involved sometimes too. In California it's called 5150.
• 14:54
  Speaker A: That's how I know it. Yep.
• 14:56
  Speaker B: Yeah, in California. That's in California. Here in Washington, I don't think we have a name for it. Just 72 hour hold. And it's hard to get out of the California jargon of 5150. So suicidal ideation is definitely the most common, common reason why a person would be put on a 72 hour hold in a mental, a psychiatric facility. Second one is homicidal ideation, which is super difficult to, super difficult to define for the average person, I suppose. So with homicidal ideation, it's not just like, I want to kill this person. Just being frustrated and saying, I want to kill, I want to kill my mom. Like that's a normal thing to say. Let's be honest. And it's pretty normal.
• 15:52
  Speaker A: That's fair.
• 15:52
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, we've heard it in meetings. Specifically, if you report to somebody that you have a plan or an intent and ways and means of killing a specific individual, you have to report that the whoever hears it has to report it. And that individual goes into a psychiatric hold for another 70 for 72 hours as well. It's just the other, you know, suicidal ideation versus killing yourself versus somebody else. And I can go into. Maybe there's a, there's a famous case that, that was brought upon because some somebody's therapist did, did not warn a potential homicide victim that their client was going to be carrying out a plan to murder them. That's sort of the, the legal basis for that. It's a mass incarceration of homeless people who are deemed. Clearly it's, it's very clear by the executive order that just because you are homeless means you're a threat.
• 17:05
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 17:06
  Speaker B: So it's a mass incarceration of unhoused folks. What I'm envisioning is, of course this happens with suicidality too, is the police. Law enforcement gets involved sometimes like EMS or the fire. Firefighters aren't involved. A lot of times law enforcement is involved.
• 17:26
  Speaker A: I mean, I can attest to this. I have a friend who would have episodes pretty frequently. You know, he had PTSD and you know, kind of rage and anxiety issues and. Yeah, he would just flip, flip out. I mean, sometimes more than once a month. And almost every time he was, there were police officers that saw to him. You Know what I mean? It wasn't not a mental health professional who was necessarily equipped to, to deal with it, to de. Escalate it was cops. And lucky for him, you know, he, he had to, he got seen too, by cops that were willing to work with him, you know, but, you know, you don't know what you're going to get. You don't know what cop it's going to be. And you know, we all know what happens if you get the wrong cop.
• 18:11
  Speaker B: Yeah. Especially if you're a bipoc person.
• 18:16
  Speaker A: Or.
• 18:16
  Speaker B: A trans person for that matter. Now, which is just a whole other, whole other brand of marginalization. So I foresee law enforcement using homicidal ideation against homeless folks to put them in an institution indefinitely reducing.
• 18:44
  Speaker A: Who they would think of as freeloaders in the population that should not be given any kind of support from the state so that they can continue that upward transfer of, of wealth, you know.
• 18:57
  Speaker B: Right.
• 18:58
  Speaker A: And, and yeah, and like the most vulnerable populations are obviously the easiest, the most likely candidates for that because they don't have a lot of shooters. You know, they're not a lot of people, powerful people looking out for them. And so, yeah, and private prisons as, you know, for profit industry in America are booming in all this misery. There's a lot of profit seeking that, you know, is also part of the story and it's also driving it.
• 19:31
  Speaker B: Housing inequality, income inequality are contributing to this and tying it back to the, the banning of the, the LGBTQ portion of 988. That again sort of puts, puts trans folks in a bin to, in my eye, as an indirect genocide. We obviously have a genocide going on in Palestine right now, a very obvious one. This to me feels like an indirect genocide of trans folks because of all of the stigma out there and all.
• 20:14
  Speaker A: Of the attacks before it escalated to this point when it was just the, the marketplace of ideas with Jordan Peterson and you know, just these talking about what, who and who is not a woman. This misinformation will be used as a pretext to immiserate and to disempower, you know, and to do to trans people what we're seeing now.
• 20:38
  Speaker B: Moving on to sort of the second part of that executive order, bringing in the drugs such as methamphetamines, which I was addicted to, which was my drug of choice besides opiates and alcohol and cocaine.
• 20:54
  Speaker A: Yeah, just a smorgasbord of treats board.
• 20:58
  Speaker B: But, but, but meth is what got me sober.
• 21:00
  Speaker A: So just by virtue of, just real quick, just by virtue of like how Hard. It made your life like. It really, like, got you to your bottom quicker.
• 21:08
  Speaker B: Yes. Oh, my God. It drives you insane, you know, because you can do meth, like, one of three ways. You can snort it, the crystals. You can smoke it out of one of those meth pipes, or you can inject it. I never injected anything, thank goodness. But there's something about smoking meth that really does something to your brain I can't figure out. Like, I haven't read any studies on it or anything like that. I'm just talking from personal experience and others. Personal experience. But, God, does it do something weird. Makes you paranoid, thinks that hel. You think helicopters are following you. Just so paranoid. It's. It. It really brings you down to your knees, brings you to your worst. That's. That. That's smoking of the meth. It's. It's ridiculous. So we see homeless folks smoking the meth pipe. Hitting the meth pipe. Like I was once. I've technically been homeless at a certain point, living out of a motel with my abuser who I was with for two years. You see a homeless person smoking meth or high on meth, and meth will. Meth will change your behavior for sure. But it's so. It's so addicting because like any other drug, it makes you feel good, makes you feel like you. Who you want to be. So there are some behaviors, specific behaviors that go along with meth use, such as, you know, pacing and, like I said, paranoia. But two, to a homeless person, that those behaviors are going to be put on display because you're out in open air. And what happens when somebody usually sees a meth addict usually talking to themselves, usually just really bizarre behavior, they're going to think that's a dangerous person. And I was once one of those dangerous people, I guess, because I was talking to myself.
• 23:27
  Speaker A: Would you agree that, yes, they can be dangerous, but then that makes it all the more imperative that you house them?
• 23:34
  Speaker B: Yep. Yeah.
• 23:36
  Speaker A: If we're deciding. If we're deciding that these are human beings with value despite their illness and you don't just want to dispose of them. And that's, to me, is a conversation, you know, sadly, I mean, that's where we're at.
• 23:51
  Speaker B: That is where we're at. We're now sending them to mental institutions. And if you haven't been a patient in a psych ward, I'm very jealous of you. Because in my experience, it can be the worst thing that's ever happened to you, be the worst place or your worst moments. That you could ever be in. Terrifying, dehumanizing, especially if you're in a psychotic state and you have to take antipsychotics, which. Which is what happened to me a couple of times. I was forced to take a drug called olanzapine, which is an antipsychotic that just knocks your socks off. So we have.
• 24:39
  Speaker A: And not in a good way.
• 24:41
  Speaker B: No. In. In. In a, like, fall down on your face first up on this. On this horrible plastic bed kind of way. Anyhow, so we have in. In like, indefinite institutionalization of homeless folks. Who are you in. Who are using substances, who are addicted to substances. What's that going to do? As a, you know, a cisgender, for the most part, white woman, I have been lucky to be in psychiatric facilities that have good accommodations, have great amenities, have great physicians, psychiatrists, nurses. But that's just really not the reality for most psychiatric facilities in America. What comes first, the chicken or the egg? With. With addiction versus housing.
• 25:44
  Speaker A: Yeah, I was going to ask you about that because I get into arguments with my girlfriend about this a lot because she's kind of. She's got. She has two wolves inside of her. You know, one is somebody who was really into Bernie in 2016 and is really, like, open to this idea of democratic socialism or just like a version of our system that is more egalitarian and humane with better corporate control and social programs. And then there's the side that she grew up in extreme poverty. You know, her parents are Vietnamese expats, and I heard this term survivors trauma a while ago. I was listening to something, and this whole thing about, like, she's gotten to a place in her life, and she. That she's worked very hard to reach, and she sees almost like the journey that she took to get there as necessary to her, you know, coming out of her chrysalis. And, like, she kind of looks at. There's a part of her. And I'm just using her as a case study, you know, I mean, but I think there's a lot of people who probably feel this way, where it's like, look, we've got the system. We've got. And is a better allocation of our energy to beat our fists against the wall or to basically nut up and acclimate yourself to this rigged system and just. It works if you work it. I think that she has a. And her. And many have a no, it works if you work it kind of attitude. You know, even though they'll see. You know, they'll see how it's rigged. They'll see how people get, you know, ground up into paste, you know, because they go into medical debt and it ruins their credit, and then, you know, a landlord won't rent them an apartment, you know, and on and on and on, you know, like, they, they will see that, but at the same time, I don't know, there's just. The system is so, like, bred into us, I feel like, that it's hard for people to imagine anything outside of it. So, yeah, as far as the chicken or the egg, I think, like, how. How much should we expect for people to. To bust their ass to survive in this thing? And like, I, I just. Cards on the table. I hate all that. I mean, I hate. I disagree with her like 100%. And we argue about it all the time, but I'm she, at least, you know, she, she. She reminds me that this is a huge obstacle to overcome.
• 28:30
  Speaker B: I disagree with her too. Sorry. But I think I was just going to throw in a little anecdotal story there. I used to work in downtown L. A at the LAPD Central station. I never worked with the cop. I mean, for the cops. I just worked next to the cops. Let's not get that twisted with LAPD And I, But I do. I can drop names. I can get out of whatever the hell I want to in LAPD I'm just, I'm just joking.
• 29:04
  Speaker A: But, yeah, let's hope. Let's hope you never have to, you know, play those cards.
• 29:09
  Speaker B: Right. Right. So LAPD Central division is located in skid row. So I was assigned as like, essentially a case manager, crisis counsel. Folks who were living on skid row who experienced domestic violence and sexual assault, which is a lot, mainly sexual assault. And I'd say at least four out of five survivors of these assaults were on meth or opiates, heroin, really hard drugs. And, you know, I'd ask one of the. The basic questions is like, you know, where do you live? It's like, oh, I live on the street. I live off of. If I could remember the avenue. I live off of so and so avenue and in a tent. And, you know, I hear these stories of, of strife and how they can't stop getting sexually assaulted because they don't have a home to go to. So what happens when you put drugs and sexual assault, constant sexual assault or domestic violence together? Just catastrophe and ruined lives. So when I. There was a. There was a couple of programs in skid row that would offer decent free housing or low income housing, usually free. And those folks that I would see would Continue with our program. Continue with our case management program and get into. See a therapist or seek group therapy for, you know, survivors of sexual assault or domestic violence. But those who did not have access to that because of X, Y or Z, or they kept failing drug tests, they would never stick with our program. I'd never hear from them again. Um, famously, I got literally stuck in an interrogation room with one of them. Lovely woman. Lovely. But I was terrified of. I have. I'm claustrophobic. I'm terrified of being trapped. So being in an interrogation room with another person is very, very distressing. I had to do some breathing exercises after that. That's just a little stupid anecdote.
• 31:36
  Speaker A: But, no, it's incredibly relevant to what we're talking about.
• 31:39
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had to scream. Be like, hello, Anybody?
• 31:44
  Speaker A: There's a lot of nightmares that go like that.
• 31:46
  Speaker B: What a. I think I wrote about it on my Facebook. I'm like, oh, four years ago today, I was locked in an interrogation room. Nice. Okay, now.
• 31:55
  Speaker A: Now you're saying the people that didn't stick with the programs, it was because they. They just couldn't stay sober or what was the.
• 32:01
  Speaker B: They couldn't stay sober, and mostly because they didn't have housing.
• 32:06
  Speaker A: My belief is that there will always be addiction and there always be addicts. And, you know, this is just. There's just something about being human where there's just some, for one reason or another, that are going to crave release through some means more than others. But I do think in a system less savage than capitalism, where human need is decommodified, I think that people will use drugs and drink less. I think that when you take the temperature down and the pressure and people have their. Are having their needs met, their basic human needs met and treated with dignity, that, you know, there's going. You will need to contend with addiction, but it will not be at the level that we're seeing now. And that, you know, this austerity of the Trump administration and, you know, and earlier administrations, it's really just been one party or another kind of. You know, you either get the hardcore or the. Or the vanilla version, you know, of neoliberalism, and this is what it does to people. This whole thing about, like, if they would just get sober, then they would be entitled to the care or the social safety net. Yeah, I don't. I don't know. I mean, I just. I guess we could play devil's advocate about that. Like, you know, like, maybe. Maybe they've got a point, but, like, I just Addiction does not work like that. And when you're talking about policy, looking out for not just the addicts, but for everybody in society, you know what I mean? The people who need to live around, you know, those with mental illness, those with addiction. I mean, I don't know. I'm just not. I don't think prisons are a solution. I don't think police are a solution. I don't. I don't even know if you call it a Band Aid. I mean, when you're just. When you're caging human beings and you're brutalizing human beings, even if you know that. That brutalization is kind of like pushed away from the spotlight, you know, and if you. And if you live in a nice neighborhood, you know what I mean? Like, I mean, I think that that's kind of like what you're paying for, really, is like, you know, you're paying for, you know, the badness to happen where you can't see it. To me, that's not a real solution.
• 34:18
  Speaker B: I will just bluntly say that. Don't just say, just get sober. Give people what they need to get sober. I don't know why that there's this argument like that. And I know. I've been in the rooms, so I've heard that argument quite a bit.
• 34:35
  Speaker A: Well, there is something. Just tell me anything about this. I mean, there is something inside that needs to come from inside of us. I mean, the people that do kind of like, get clean and stick with it, like, there needs to be something that springs from. From inside that reaches out and grabs the hand.
• 34:53
  Speaker B: Yeah, there has to. Yeah.
• 34:55
  Speaker A: Yeah, but that's. But I mean, there's a whole other component to it. You know what I mean? You're. You know, if you create better conditions for that to occur, and I do think that you can create conditions where, you know, that tree can grow.
• 35:09
  Speaker B: Speaking of substances, we have the lovely RFK Jr. In office as the HHS director. I can never think.
• 35:21
  Speaker A: Yeah, the. The HHS. Mahasar.
• 35:25
  Speaker B: Yeah, Maha. Maha.
• 35:27
  Speaker A: So stupid.
• 35:30
  Speaker B: So he thinks that. And like you were telling me, the most recent mass shooting, I guess he criticized this man who criticized SSRIs.
• 35:43
  Speaker A: Yeah, antidepressants. Right?
• 35:44
  Speaker B: Antidepressant. Yeah, antidepressant. So it fixes the serotonin in your brain. Not everybody is on them, you know, not everyone agrees with them, and that's totally fine. You know, I've. I've been on them, I've been off them.
• 35:59
  Speaker A: Same.
• 36:00
  Speaker B: Right, yeah. Shout out to Zoloft and to. To Prozac. And I almost said the word escitala, pram, all of that stuff.
• 36:11
  Speaker A: Wow, that's a cool word.
• 36:12
  Speaker B: Escital. Yeah, that's Prozac. No, no, no, no. That's Lexapro. Excuse me. I know way too many pharmaceutical terms for my own good, but that's why I was a pill popper. Right.
• 36:23
  Speaker A: Well, you know, we talked about Silver Linings playbook like a couple episodes ago, and one of my favorite scenes in the movie is when Bradley Cooper meets Jennifer Lawrence and they're immediately just like talking about all the mental hospital drugs that they've been taking. And. Yeah.
• 36:39
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's like you match based on what meds you're taking.
• 36:43
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 36:45
  Speaker B: So, you know, I got my Lamotri gene crew out there. RFK Jr openly criticizes SSRIs. Any. Any. Let's. Any mental health medication. I have a person in my life close to me who loves him and, you know, doesn't. Really. Doesn't really look past the fact that I've had to take. I have to take mental health medication in order to survive and not. And stay out of the. The institutions. But what's the. The flip side and doesn't make much sense to me is that, okay, we've got RFK on one hand putting down mental health medication, including antipsychotics. And then we have the. This executive order putting homeless folks in institutions and force giving them mental health medications. So pick a lane.
• 37:40
  Speaker A: The anti SSRI argument. I was seeing that a lot around earlier mass shootings whenever, you know, the Republican Party. And I'm just going to pick on them in this instance, didn't want to do any gun control. And so they would point to, you know, just let's keep it in the realm of. Of mental illness and, you know, and medication. Violent video games, I suppose, can be another one, you know, just to throw some things into the mix. The whole RFK phenomenon. I mean, what I've always felt about it, he's like a strong advocate for individualized, like, health fetishes. Yeah, fetishes and diet. Diet things. And exercise things. And it's basically like he's a guy who works out a lot and I probably take steroids and, you know, takes a bunch of like, strange, you know, kind of unapproved like, medications and stuff to extend his life and, you know, you know, all of which is like, hey, if you want to indulge in those things or if you, if they work for you, to each of their own. But putting a guy like that in government who's Just going to tell me what I, as an individual, to make myself healthier, what do I need you for? You know, I've got Google, you know, or now we've got chat GPT. Like, you know, we need somebody to read our chat GPT to us. Or do we need, like a state that can actually kind of like, you know, craft policy or kind of like provide some material support that will aid in our better health? Like, I've always just felt anybody passionate about rfk, I'm like, do you just need an influencer? You know, is that like, is that what this is about? You just need an influencer? But he's, but he's got the White House crest behind him, you know?
• 39:20
  Speaker B: Yeah. Does the Make America Healthy Again apply to homeless individuals? Or are they even people, the powers that be? Like, are they, Are they people? And the answer is no. Your point to, you know, mass shootings and the sort of go to, like, stronger mental health policies instead of gun control. As a person with a serious mental illness, it's incredibly hurtful. And I, you know, I don't, I recognize my privilege all the time, but there's certain things that I do get hurt by. And if there's a mass shooting, it's like, oh, blame the bipolar people, blame the schizophrenic people, like, and, you know, we are, as individuals who suffer from these types of things are more like, statistically more likely to be the victim of a crime rather than the perpetrator. And that is just the, the, the flip side has always been the narrative for those of us with privilege, like myself, he, me, and you, especially you, since you're a man. We need to heal ourselves by standing in our discomfort. And a lot of this discomfort right now, especially first, you know, politically active folks and folks who just know what, what's going on. Getting to a, getting to a point of neutrality that this is going to be a hard fucking fight.
• 40:54
  Speaker A: Neutral in what sense? Just to clarify it, the top three.
• 40:57
  Speaker B: Emotions that are damaging are fear, anger and sadness. And so sticking out of those and staying in, for lack of a better word, unconditional love while fighting is what folks like us need to do in order to be a part of this fight. Heal ourselves, get neutral. The fact that this is going to fucking suck, but coming at it through a place of love instead of hate.
• 41:24
  Speaker A: It'S a marathon, not a sprint. People need solutions and systemic change. We encourage all of our listeners to give as much as you can. Give your time. Thank you so much, Audrey. And you know, this was your theme for the, you know, for the show last week was mine. And I'm just so glad that you brought this to my attention. I honestly, I missed it. There's just. It's an Omni crisis. There's so much going on right now, and I've just been so. Just. Just depressed and just anguished about what's going on in Gaza. I mean, there's a lot quite a bit going on every single day, you know, here domestically that I, you know, I need to try and keep in mind. And this show is just one way that we can kind of keep all these things in perspective and stay in compassion and support for those that suffer.
• 42:12
  Speaker B: Right. It's all for them.
• 42:13
  Speaker A: All right. I appreciate you.
• 42:15
  Speaker B: I appreciate you. I'll see you later.
• 42:18
  Speaker A: All right. Take care.
• 42:19
  Speaker B: Sam.