Latest / Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield / Are the All Blacks Back on Top? Victor & JK Debate

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Are the All Blacks Back on Top? Victor & JK Debate · Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield

• 0:00
  I was thinking of maybe wearing my all-black jersey this morning.
• 0:03
  Yeah, that first 40 was just unbelievable.
• 0:05
  Wow, we're playing our DNA.
• 0:08
  It's just not the Aussie that we know.
• 0:10
  Do you really think they've got an international side in the top five?
• 0:14
  They can upset any team, but I can't see them win a World Cup or get to not even a semifinal.
• 0:20
  What's Rusty going to do on the Northern Tour, Victor?
• 0:23
  Is he going to rest some guys?
• 0:24
  His big focus was on winning the rivalry tour, and I think he's focused on winning the World Cup now.
• 0:34
  Welcome to Ram Hand to Hand Couriers Rugby Rivals.
• 0:38
  And Victor, you got your internet fixed?
• 0:41
  My what fixed?
• 0:43
  JK, can you just cheer up Victor by telling him that the All Blacks are now the best team in the world?
• 0:48
  We're number one, aren't we?
• 0:49
  We're back to number one?
• 0:51
  No, you're not.
• 0:53
  No, no, no, you're not number one.
• 0:54
  How can you be number one?
• 0:57
  You lost the greatest rivalry 2-3-1.
• 1:01
  You lost the South African 2-2-1.
• 1:03
  So how can you be number one?
• 1:06
  Because you lost to Australia and then we beat them twice.
• 1:11
  Yes.
• 1:11
  We just helped Australia with the next World Cup.
• 1:14
  It doesn't really matter if we're number one.
• 1:16
  You guys just worry about yourself.
• 1:17
  It doesn't really matter if we're number one.
• 1:19
  Victor, if we can't beat South Africa, I'm not going to take it.
• 1:21
  So I agree with you this time.
• 1:24
  It doesn't really matter.
• 1:25
  You must have been happy with that all-black performance, JK.
• 1:28
  I was really, really happy for 56 minutes.
• 1:31
  And I think we've really learnt.
• 1:34
  I think the team's getting better.
• 1:36
  And so I think that's the most important stuff that we learnt from, although Australia do not put us under the same pressure.
• 1:43
  Fair to say that they don't put us under the same pressure.
• 1:46
  So a lot of the things you can't measure.
• 1:48
  But I think the team is getting better.
• 1:51
  I like the players that have come back into it.
• 1:53
  I think Scott Barrett's been amazing.
• 1:56
  And the good thing is when we've got injuries like we have, you know, guys are stepping up.
• 2:02
  So for me, really, really happy.
• 2:05
  Now, I don't want to be controversial, but like I thought Australia were, I thought just in the last sort of 25 minutes with the TMO coming in for something silly, then a yellow card, it just broke up the rhythm of the game.
• 2:22
  I thought it was a great game.
• 2:24
  like game from a rhythm point of view.
• 2:26
  And then just the last 25 minutes, I thought Aussie were getting on a roll and then the game broke up and it sort of fell apart a wee bit.
• 2:34
  So the players and the coaches won't be happy with the last sort of 20 minutes, I don't think.
• 2:40
  Yeah, I must say, I was thinking of maybe wearing my all-black jersey this morning while you guys were going that first off.
• 2:47
  I thought this might be like a 70 or 80-point
• 2:51
  Margin, I thought, okay, then I'll put on my All Black jersey and say good luck.
• 2:55
  But yeah, I think like you say, as well, it's always difficult.
• 2:58
  I think when you go in at halftime, gamers won, there was no chance of them really coming back.
• 3:05
  But yeah, then the All Blacks just lost a bit of shape, lost a bit of discipline.
• 3:09
  But yeah, that first 40 was just unbelievable.
• 3:13
  And again, I think the thing that you guys can be most happy about, I mean,
• 3:18
  Jordy Barrett, probably one of your best players, get injured before the game.
• 3:21
  Someone else steps in.
• 3:24
  Tupai get injured, Rico comes on.
• 3:26
  And, yeah, I think that depth that we were talking about is coming through and there's a lot that can step up.
• 3:34
  Even, I mean, if you think of that fly-off with your first two choice, your first choice fly-offs not being there and still the other guys step up.
• 3:46
  So, yeah, All Blacks very impressive in this Bledisloe Cup.
• 3:53
  I really thought that first half was something best rugby I've seen.
• 3:56
  Now that you've seen him in both positions, do you like Tupou Vailly at six or lock?
• 4:04
  I still, I think if Shannon Frazelle is ready and ready to go, I would like to see him at seven.
• 4:12
  I still think he's probably, or six for you guys, he's probably your base six.
• 4:17
  I mean, he's really big, strong, carries hard, uh,
• 4:20
  Okay, he doesn't have the same line-outs abilities, but I don't think he's bad.
• 4:27
  But yeah, it's difficult.
• 4:29
  Will Fahey fit in?
• 4:32
  Or is the lock combination that you guys played this weekend with Holland and Scott Barrett, is that maybe your best combination?
• 4:39
  So I like that combination.
• 4:40
  Holland's a big guy, strong, physical.
• 4:44
  And I mean, Scott Barrett gives you everything.
• 4:47
  He gives you line-outs ability and he gives you a lot of...
• 4:52
  speed around the field as well.
• 4:55
  Yeah, I mean, you mentioned the lineouts.
• 4:56
  It wasn't really one of the areas that we excelled in, though.
• 5:01
  I think we lost three or four of our own lineouts.
• 5:04
  You know, it's still a work on JK.
• 5:06
  Yeah, look, I think who's calling the lineouts, I think, you know, Scott's been out of the game for a while, and so I think that'll take a little bit of time.
• 5:16
  I'll be interested to see who is actually calling the lineouts.
• 5:20
  And I think that's one of the things under pressure.
• 5:22
  There was a little bit of hesitation on a couple of occasions, and we need to sort that out going north because there'll be a lot more pressure on us going north.
• 5:31
  But I think one of the other questions, and I know everyone was sort of saying that Aussie played a good 20 minutes, but I just can't get a gauge on Australia as a team at the moment.
• 5:42
  I don't know if they're good or bad.
• 5:45
  I just can't get a read on it.
• 5:46
  And this is no disrespect because the first person that wants Aussie to be really, really strong is me because I think it's great for the whole game.
• 5:53
  But I just can't get a read on them.
• 5:55
  They beat South Africa.
• 5:57
  Obviously, you guys changed 10 players.
• 5:59
  But then they play good in patches.
• 6:03
  It's just not the Aussie that we know.
• 6:05
  Do you really think they've got an international side in the top five?
• 6:10
  I don't think they're definitely not top four.
• 6:15
  I don't even think top five.
• 6:17
  I mean, I think South Africa, All Blacks, Ireland, France is probably there.
• 6:23
  And then I think Australia can compete with teams like Scotland and England.
• 6:29
  But yeah, at this stage, just, I mean, even in the game against South Africa, once the real guys came onto the field, I mean, to...
• 6:38
  almost get 30 points against you in the last 20 minutes, um, there's just something wrong.
• 6:44
  So I thought with you guys as well, and that first half, whenever you had momentum, ran hard onto the ball, they just didn't have the stopping power, um, to stop you guys.
• 6:53
  They couldn't slow down your ball.
• 6:55
  And it was really just too easy.
• 6:57
  It looked like a captain's run on a Friday afternoon.
• 7:00
  Um,
• 7:01
  So yeah, I think they've still got a lot to work on.
• 7:04
  Their set piece is really good.
• 7:06
  I think their line-up is one of the best, especially competing.
• 7:11
  They really work well together.
• 7:13
  They plan well.
• 7:14
  Their scrum is not too bad.
• 7:17
  But I think, yeah, there's just something missing.
• 7:20
  I mean, again, if you look at Super Rugby, they struggle to win the New Zealand teams.
• 7:25
  I mean, they need a Super Rugby team that can compete with all the top New Zealand teams.
• 7:31
  Yeah, unfortunately for the last 10 years, they didn't have that.
• 7:35
  I think the other thing is, I think Wilson was frustrated on the weekend.
• 7:40
  I think he was talking to the ref a lot.
• 7:42
  You know, he was trying to get the ref to make some calls.
• 7:45
  And I just think he lost his concentration a wee bit because he's one of those guys that needs to really lead them, really get them to go forward, really be that inspirational leader they can be.
• 7:55
  So I felt that he was a little bit frustrated and...
• 7:59
  And that showed in his game.
• 8:01
  I didn't think he had the dominant performance that he normally does because when they win and when they compete, it's normally when he's on top of his game.
• 8:08
  And I felt he was a bit quiet because I think he was distracted with some of the calls and got frustrated.
• 8:13
  So the thing is I've noticed with Australia, and they've got a couple of players out, like they just don't have a bench either.
• 8:20
  Although the bench did come on on the weekend and play a lot better.
• 8:24
  I thought Ngannou was like...
• 8:28
  really good when he came on, so they did make a bit of an impact.
• 8:32
  But I think if they lose a couple of players, they're going to really struggle.
• 8:36
  Yeah, it was interesting the number of times their last pass didn't go to hand.
• 8:41
  There was about three or four times that they just threw the ball out past the player.
• 8:46
  It was just that execution.
• 8:49
  They'd build up good phases, and that last skill execution under pressure just not good enough.
• 8:53
  I mean, we need Australia to be strong.
• 8:56
  Do you think...
• 8:58
  Is there any way they can get better by the World Cup?
• 9:01
  I think we need South Africa back into some sort of competition.
• 9:06
  So we need to try and create some sort of competition where we're playing South Africa more.
• 9:10
  So here's another question.
• 9:12
  Do we get to play South Africa before the World Cup next year again?
• 9:15
  I don't think so.
• 9:16
  I think we do have a championship.
• 9:18
  It will probably be a short one, everyone just playing each other once.
• 9:21
  So we will play each other again now.
• 9:24
  Yeah.
• 9:25
  Yes, I think post-World Cup, we've got to try and find a way where we're playing against South African sides more.
• 9:35
  And I don't think it's the...
• 9:36
  I think it's the URC teams rather than the Curry Cup teams.
• 9:41
  We need to find a way where we're playing more.
• 9:43
  And I think the Australians will...
• 9:45
  will need to take a look at their game and understand why they don't have the players coming through.
• 9:50
  I think they're really lacking a front five, Victor.
• 9:54
  I think their locks are not of the same level as other international locks.
• 10:00
  So I think they really need to work hard on how they're going to build this team for next year's World Cup, because I think they're in trouble.
• 10:07
  Yeah, it feels like everything is just almost there, but they don't have something where they can dominate you.
• 10:16
  I mean, the game against South Africa, they were really good with the aerial battle.
• 10:21
  But I mean, both those last two games against New Zealand, they lost the aerial battle.
• 10:26
  I mean, their line-out I already mentioned, I think is really good.
• 10:30
  But they don't have a scrum that dominates.
• 10:33
  They don't have big, strong carriers that dominate.
• 10:36
  So, yeah, it's going to be difficult for them.
• 10:40
  I just can't see them.
• 10:42
  They can upset any team.
• 10:44
  But I can't see them win a World Cup or get to not even a semifinal next year.
• 10:51
  So what's Rusty going to do on the Northern Tour, Victor?
• 10:54
  He's always coming up with some sort of stuff.
• 10:57
  Is he going to rest some guys?
• 10:58
  Is he going to take his top side?
• 11:01
  What's he going to do?
• 11:01
  Have you heard?
• 11:03
  I think it's going to be interesting.
• 11:05
  To be honest, what I think, and I've heard earlier, but then I don't know, is
• 11:12
  I don't think.
• 11:13
  I think his big focus was on winning the rivalry tour.
• 11:17
  And I think his focus on winning the World Cup now.
• 11:20
  I don't think the...
• 11:22
  Yes, of course, he wants to win every test match.
• 11:24
  But I think we'll see players getting opportunities.
• 11:29
  It won't be like with the rivals where he plays the same team four weeks in a row.
• 11:34
  I think we'll see players get opportunities.
• 11:37
  Maybe not the same as Australia where there will be 10 changes, but...
• 11:41
  I definitely believe he'll rotate the players.
• 11:44
  And, yeah, he wants to prepare for the World Cup now.
• 11:48
  So what, so that question, that's a really interesting statement.
• 11:54
  So in your opinion, what does Russi need to do differently or what is he going to do to win the next World Cup this November?
• 12:04
  What does that look like, do you think?
• 12:06
  Yeah, I just think, again, there's still some combinations that we can get better.
• 12:11
  There's a few young players in the URC and the Pester Cup Saturday that really stood out again.
• 12:19
  Does it give them opportunities?
• 12:21
  I've said it in the past.
• 12:23
  We've done it a few times in the old days, especially before World Cup, where we send a complete B-side over...
• 12:30
  to Australia and New Zealand, and they always got smashed.
• 12:35
  You want these kids coming through that maybe can have a big influence on the World Cup to play with the best players.
• 12:40
  So you only want two, three changes, they get the opportunity to play in that
• 12:45
  a team that understands how to win games and then they can show what they can do.
• 12:49
  So I think we'll see that.
• 12:51
  And then the other thing is, I think we really went back to our old B&A in the Rivals Tour, where we were really physical, we were direct, we played the pressure game.
• 13:02
  I think we might see on the end of your tour also a bit more of Tony Brown coming in, a bit more expansive, having a go just to
• 13:11
  I mean, we still need to grow.
• 13:12
  Last year, we were almost getting there.
• 13:14
  And this year, after that first loss against you guys, we just went back to, okay, if we need to win a game, this is what we're going to do.
• 13:21
  And I think Raysi would like us to play a little bit more on the end of year tour and just to grow that side of your game as well.
• 13:29
  Just before we talk too much about South Africa, Victor, can we just go on the Ram?
• 13:35
  Who delivered?
• 13:36
  Ram couriers hand-to-hand.
• 13:38
  Who delivered in the Bledisloe Cup for you, JK?
• 13:40
  For me, Bowden Barrett.
• 13:43
  For me, Bowdoin Barrett, you wouldn't have seen it, Victor, but there was quite a few articles during the week how he found it really, really difficult not being selected and stuff, but he hung in there and he got his opportunity, obviously in the first test, but in the second test, I thought he was outstanding.
• 14:02
  And he got back to his confident self, people were saying, is he over the hill and all that sort of stuff.
• 14:09
  And I was just really happy for him as a...
• 14:12
  as an elder statesman that he is now and to get out there and, you know, score that intercept try, but also that second try was, was pretty well executed.
• 14:20
  So, you know, my Ram hand to hand couriers was, was, was Bowdoin really.
• 14:25
  I thought he was really good in that intercept.
• 14:28
  We run wondered if he had the pace.
• 14:29
  Well, he certainly had the pace.
• 14:30
  And look, I think for me, he goes down, for me, he's a legend, and he'll go down in legendary status because he stayed in New Zealand.
• 14:41
  And you imagine being 100, well, you're 150, 100-odd caps.
• 14:46
  How many caps have you got, Victor?
• 14:48
  Something like that, 150?
• 14:49
  127.
• 14:49
  127.
• 14:51
  127.
• 14:52
  So you imagine being a test 127 or 147 like he was test guy and you're getting put on the bench and he's stuck in there.
• 15:02
  So I just think that's great.
• 15:03
  I just think it's fantastic.
• 15:05
  And to have someone like him there just really shows our depth.
• 15:09
  So I thought that was also a lot of stoked for him.
• 15:13
  Yeah, I think my Ram hand-to-hand career player that performed under pressure, I must say, Bowdoin Barrett for me as well was pretty close.
• 15:23
  I think what JK said, I mean, you say a legend, he's been twice world player of the year.
• 15:29
  He's a huge legend, one of the best that ever played the game.
• 15:33
  And then a guy that stood out for me as well, but not getting it, is Peter Lackey.
• 15:37
  I thought in that first half, yeah, he was explosive.
• 15:41
  So dangerous with ball in hand.
• 15:42
  But I'm going to give it actually to the captain, Cody Taylor.
• 15:46
  I think he's been under pressure as well in his position.
• 15:51
  But just the way he came through, the way he played in that first half and also the way he leads the team was outstanding.
• 15:58
  So I think he's a guy that really performed under pressure and he's also one of the leaders in that team that keeps the team together.
• 16:06
  Yeah, that's a good call.
• 16:07
  Peter Lackey was incredible, wasn't he?
• 16:09
  He's so explosive with the ball in hand.
• 16:11
  It's crazy how he can break the line and speed and everything.
• 16:15
  So he was really outstanding.
• 16:16
  Do you think, J.K., he's going to be our first choice ever?
• 16:19
  Well, we've got Artie Savia, mate.
• 16:21
  Luke Jacobson.
• 16:22
  We've got a few boys out.
• 16:24
  So, yeah, I think for me, I don't know where they'll all fit because I also thought that the whole loose four trio went well.
• 16:39
  I thought it was a good combination.
• 16:41
  So no good problems to have, right?
• 16:43
  Um, I do like Lakai at seven.
• 16:45
  I do like him at eight as well.
• 16:47
  You know, Satiti, I think is really good at eight as well.
• 16:50
  I think Lakai, um, is pretty explosive.
• 16:54
  So I, I think Lakai is more of an eight than he is a seven to be fair.
• 16:58
  Um, but what do you do when, when Ardy comes back?
• 17:01
  But like I said, good problems to have.
• 17:04
  Actually, I think, I think I, I think we're going back to eight.
• 17:07
  Um, I think we've seen him there.
• 17:09
  I think that's his position.
• 17:11
  Um,
• 17:12
  I probably think Jacobson will also start at open side at seven.
• 17:17
  But I mean, to have a guy like Lackey coming off the bench, just think about that.
• 17:22
  When it opens up, he's explosive, so he can really be dangerous off the bench as well.
• 17:27
  Actually, while we're talking about RAM, handling and couriers, don't forget to win the Isuzu D-Max 3.0.
• 17:34
  I got in trouble last week because I said that the website was www.ram.co.za, and it's Z-A.
• 17:46
  We don't say Z. Z-A.
• 17:49
  Backslash competition.
• 17:50
  So all you have to do is register and you can win yourself an Isuzu D-Max.
• 17:54
  which were very flash.
• 17:57
  Let's look forward now to the tour.
• 18:00
  So what happens now?
• 18:01
  For the next couple of weeks, players go home, sort of get a bit of a rest, and then it's bags packed and off to the Northern Hemisphere to see who's going to win the nation's championship.
• 18:11
  Explain how that works, JK.
• 18:13
  I have no idea, Ricardo.
• 18:14
  You know that.
• 18:15
  That's why you asked me.
• 18:16
  I have no idea how it works.
• 18:18
  But I'm pretty sure that we can't play each other.
• 18:23
  So it's north versus south.
• 18:26
  At the moment, we're equal, I think.
• 18:30
  South Africa a little bit ahead on points.
• 18:33
  So what happens is one plays one Northern Hemisphere, but we've got to wait until the first few games.
• 18:40
  And then there's this massive finals weekend at Twickenham, the last weekend of the month, where I think, I don't know how many play, but I know that one plays one Northern Hemisphere game.
• 18:51
  versus Southern Hemisphere 1 play, and then there's 2 versus 2, 3 versus 3, and I presume 4 versus 4.
• 18:57
  So the top eight is from what I can gather.
• 19:02
  I actually think, I'm actually quite excited about it.
• 19:05
  That'll be a great weekend.
• 19:06
  That'll be a great weekend of footy from Thursday through to Sunday.
• 19:09
  I reckon it's a great idea, and it does put a little bit more emphasis on the competition.
• 19:15
  I heard that next year it won't be North versus South.
• 19:19
  It'll be...
• 19:21
  the winner one versus two, but I don't know.
• 19:23
  So yeah, I'm excited.
• 19:24
  I think it's, I think it's great.
• 19:25
  I think doing that Northern Hemisphere, great final weekend, seeing everyone play, festival of rugby, bring it on.
• 19:32
  It's okay.
• 19:34
  There's not going to be a nation cup next year.
• 19:36
  It's world cup next year.
• 19:37
  So we can play one.
• 19:39
  and two against each other.
• 19:40
  But it only will be in the quarterfinal, unfortunately.
• 19:43
  I heard that Russ is going to throw the quarterfinal because he scared me.
• 19:46
  That's what I heard.
• 19:48
  That's what we're saying down here in New Zealand.
• 19:49
  Maybe.
• 19:52
  We like losing a pool game at World Cups.
• 19:54
  It's one of the things we do.
• 19:56
  That's true.
• 19:57
  You do like losing a pool game and then go through to work.
• 20:00
  Yeah, we actually are busy with our clubs.
• 20:02
  We had a big investing team.
• 20:08
  Champions Cup weekend where we played a lot of the Northern Hemisphere teams.
• 20:14
  The Bulls and the Stormers really looked good.
• 20:16
  Someone like Sasha and Damien Billups were so sharp for the Stormers.
• 20:21
  So it's nice to see the confidence as well.
• 20:22
  I think a guy like Sasha needs a little bit of confidence.
• 20:25
  So it's going well.
• 20:27
  The Bulls were really good as well.
• 20:29
  And yeah, the French teams actually struggled a little bit.
• 20:33
  The English teams struggled a bit.
• 20:34
  So the South African and the Irish teams really did well this weekend.
• 20:39
  So that's good for us.
• 20:41
  And that's good for Ireland.
• 20:43
  Interesting thing.
• 20:43
  Just talking about the Northern Hemisphere and talking about Sascha and getting some confidence, do you think that the rivals to a Noctis confidence a wee bit?
• 20:55
  I don't think it knocked his confidence.
• 20:57
  I just think he's in that second-year syndrome.
• 20:59
  So everyone is expecting so much from him and probably himself as well.
• 21:04
  And I think he just needs to work through it so that he knows there's some games where he can just be consistent, just control the game.
• 21:11
  He doesn't have to do magic every weekend.
• 21:14
  And I think the more he plays, the more you'll get to that.
• 21:18
  But I mean, his combination with Damien Willems is just something special.
• 21:22
  They find each other.
• 21:24
  It's always one to the other one, line break, then back to the other one.
• 21:27
  So...
• 21:28
  It's good that they play together at the Storms as well.
• 21:31
  I think watching the game on the weekend, it reminded me of Wayne Smith, you know, one of our greatest coaches and technicians.
• 21:39
  And when you watch Damien McKenzie, I think Sasha needs to take a leaf out of his book because of that double touch.
• 21:46
  You know, Damien McKenzie's getting that second touch, which Wayne Smith used to love.
• 21:50
  You know, get a second touch.
• 21:51
  And you saw Damien pass, but then he was coming in behind for those loop rounds.
• 21:56
  And I think, you know, I agree with that sort of second-year syndrome, but the best way you can beat that is actually getting your second touch because people don't know where you are and how you're getting it.
• 22:05
  So...
• 22:06
  I think it'll be interesting that northern tour for players like him because it's different north.
• 22:14
  It's wet, cold, heavier, more players on the ground.
• 22:20
  It'll be interesting.
• 22:21
  Victor, when you're travelling up north, can you find a Clippies and Coke?
• 22:25
  Is that possible?
• 22:27
  There's more South Africans in London than there are anywhere else in the world, mate.
• 22:30
  Of course, there'll be Clippies and Coke.
• 22:33
  Of course they will be.
• 22:34
  I mean, didn't you see what happened in the America?
• 22:36
  Like, the South Americans everywhere.
• 22:37
  Did you see Baltimore?
• 22:39
  Everywhere.
• 22:39
  Baltimore was, what's going on there, mate?
• 22:42
  We follow our team all across the world.
• 22:44
  We're the world champions, double world champions.
• 22:47
  Of course we will be there.
• 22:49
  That's only 23 minutes before you brought up double world champion.
• 22:54
  I'm hopefully going to be in London, so...
• 22:57
  I'll be trying to avoid the South Africans if I can, mate.
• 23:01
  I wouldn't mind a Clippies and Cope, though, as long as you don't stick your fingers in it again.
• 23:10
  What was your Clippies moment, your Clip Drift moment from the Test match?
• 23:14
  JK, start with you.
• 23:16
  Oh, that's a good one.
• 23:17
  My Clippies moment, unfortunately, I've probably already said it, but it's probably the Intercept from Bowdoin.
• 23:24
  But I think that would be a special moment.
• 23:27
  But I think for all New Zealanders, the moment is actually the way we're playing.
• 23:32
  So everyone I talk to goes, wow, we're playing our DNA.
• 23:36
  So when you see Damien, you know, touching the ball twice, looping around.
• 23:42
  So I think everyone's really excited.
• 23:44
  I was at the supermarket today and this elderly Maori lady stopped me.
• 23:49
  And she said, we spoke for about 10 minutes about the game, which I love doing.
• 23:54
  And she was saying, oh, I'm feeling so good about the way we're playing.
• 23:57
  It's our DNA.
• 23:59
  So I think there was a passage of play where we just, it would have been 14 or 15 rucks, but it was up the field, guys making breaks, like you mentioned, Victor, Cody Taylor breaking through.
• 24:11
  So for me, the clip drift moment is actually just us playing to our DNA.
• 24:15
  Victor?
• 24:16
  Victor?
• 24:18
  So my clip drift moment of the week, I'm also going away from the game.
• 24:24
  Actually very sad in South Africa.
• 24:26
  Hyron Andrews, lock of the Lions, passed away Friday before the game in the UK.
• 24:31
  And just again, I mean, how the whole rugby world got behind it, the respect everyone showed, that just shows what rugby is about.
• 24:42
  I mean, even that game between the Lions and La Rochelle,
• 24:48
  The way La Rochelle came out and really honoured him was unbelievable.
• 24:51
  And I think that's something we have in rugby that's really special, where if something sad happens, everyone just pulls together and gets behind and supports the family, the teams.
• 25:04
  That's really in a difficult time.
• 25:07
  Beautiful.
• 25:08
  Yeah, nice word.
• 25:10
  Can I ask a rugby question?
• 25:12
  I've got two questions.
• 25:13
  First of all,
• 25:15
  The first test against the Bledisloe Cup, we kicked the ball a lot.
• 25:20
  You know, we went to the air a lot through Roygaard, but we put that away this test match.
• 25:25
  So is that us developing two different game plans or is that just adapting to how we were breaking their defence?
• 25:33
  I think a lot of the players on the field, especially if you're tacking from deep, Ricardo, if you don't make a line break after the sort of first four rucks, if you want to play an expansive game, then you need to go for territory.
• 25:46
  So I think what was happening against the Australians in the first test is we're having a crack.
• 25:52
  They were D-ing up.
• 25:53
  And then you go field position.
• 25:55
  I think what was happening this weekend was we were making line breaks.
• 25:59
  We were finding the space.
• 26:00
  So we were just, rather than kicking it, we were running to the space.
• 26:05
  So I think that was the major difference.
• 26:06
  I think there's a bit of a...
• 26:08
  There's normally a bit of a default.
• 26:09
  We'll have a crack, boys, but after three or four rucks, if we're still in our 10-yard line, then we need to play field position because if we turn it over there, we're in trouble.
• 26:18
  So I think that was the major difference.
• 26:20
  People always ask about game plan A, game plan B, and I don't think the best teams in the world don't have that.
• 26:26
  They've got to print how they wanted to play, but they want players to make decisions on the field.
• 26:32
  You want your 9, 10...
• 26:34
  Are we getting momentum?
• 26:35
  Then we can keep the ball in hand.
• 26:37
  We're not getting momentum, so let's maybe go for that 28 like J.K. is calling it.
• 26:42
  Hopefully we can win it back and then there's broken field to play from.
• 26:47
  The other thing that they really did really well is use Bowdoin as that second receiver.
• 26:52
  And his kicking game with his left and right, which was so good, and he got a lot of distance and rather going for the 28, they actually went long and they got a lot of return of that as well.
• 27:03
  That really made a difference.
• 27:06
  And one more rugby question from me, which is unusual.
• 27:10
  You know, we've all talked about how good our attack was, but was that partly because Australia weren't doing a very good job at slowing our ball down?
• 27:18
  You know, we seem to be getting the ball out of the ruck very quickly.
• 27:24
  You know, we were cleaning out well.
• 27:27
  But is that because of our good skills or because of Australia's poor skills at the contact area?
• 27:33
  I think your skills are really good.
• 27:36
  But again, playing against the All Blacks, there's just no way you can defend with a line that doesn't come hard off the line.
• 27:46
  I think the skill set, once the All Blacks can get into that flat line, everyone runs onto the ball, they stay on that advantage line, you're in trouble.
• 27:55
  So you need to go fetch them.
• 27:58
  behind.
• 27:59
  You need to go make them play deeper so that you have more time.
• 28:02
  I mean, they've done it very well against South Africa where they really went deep and they bend us on the outside in the rival tour.
• 28:11
  But against Australia, they were just playing on the game line with a skill set, with an offloading game.
• 28:17
  And once they get that role on, there's just no way you will stop the whole place.
• 28:20
  Yeah, I think it was a combination, Ricardo.
• 28:22
  I think that we had our big men and our fast men were making half breaks even at contact.
• 28:29
  So big men with good feet, you know, they're hitting some weak shoulders.
• 28:34
  And then once you get that roll on, once you get that little break, so especially if you're breaking sort of midfield, I remember one image comes to mind, Cody Taylor running through the middle, making a break through the middle of the field.
• 28:46
  Once you start getting over that advantage, and I get a roll on, it's really, really hard.
• 28:50
  you know, to stop that.
• 28:52
  And so I think that, you know, the Australians were chasing and then all of a sudden, you know, you're making 40-odd tackles, 50-odd tackles in the first 15 minutes and you start to chase it and it just gets tiring.
• 29:05
  So you're struggling to get your line set
• 29:09
  And like I said, I think the dominance wasn't there for Australia at the contact.
• 29:15
  And once you get that, then you don't dominate that, then the All Blacks are going to be all over you.
• 29:20
  Well, that's the Bledisloe locked away for another year.
• 29:25
  I can't even tell you how many years it's been.
• 29:27
  It's ridiculous.
• 29:28
  But the good news now is we can...
• 29:32
  Talk about the upcoming Northern Tour and look forward to, obviously it's been designed in such a way that there will be a Northern Hemisphere team in the final.
• 29:40
  Otherwise it will just be New Zealand and South Africa again.
• 29:43
  But, you know, this is a good time where we can compare notes.
• 29:48
  Who's going to have the best tour, New Zealand or South Africa?
• 29:51
  And this time there's a prize at the end of it, a Nations Cup final, and only one of us can be there.
• 29:57
  Yeah, no, if you want me to answer that, I still think France and Ireland, although I think Ireland are sort of struggling a wee bit understanding their new game, especially around 10, but I think that France are still one of the best teams in the world and they can beat anyone on their day.
• 30:15
  So for me, France and Ireland are still top four.
• 30:20
  England on their day, let's see what happens with England, but I think the Northern tours are always really, really hard.
• 30:25
  We're at the end of the season, so...
• 30:28
  I don't think we can pick it right now.
• 30:32
  I think it's going to be a tough tour for South Africa.
• 30:35
  I mean, we're playing the two best teams away.
• 30:38
  So we're playing Ireland and France there.
• 30:41
  Just looking at the weekend again, the Investec Cup, when the French players are looking good, although they didn't have a great weekend.
• 30:49
  They made some funny decisions playing tight-head props at second row, both Bordeaux and Toulouse.
• 30:55
  I don't think it's something they want to try now,
• 30:59
  But I think France will be very difficult over there for South Africa.
• 31:04
  And yeah, if we don't get them right, we might even play them twice, I think.
• 31:07
  So that France game is going to be a tough one for South Africa.
• 31:11
  If we can get through that one, then it's going to be tight between us.
• 31:14
  But I think there is a chance of South Africa and the All Blacks going through without losing a game.
• 31:21
  And then it will go down to point difference, bonus points, whatever, to see who's playing in the final.
• 31:28
  I think from a – and we might have to get Trimby back – I think from an Irish and a French point of view, they need to win something.
• 31:36
  Heading into the World Cup to get confidence they need to beat South Africa or they need to beat us in the semifinal or whatever it is.
• 31:44
  They need some big wins on their turf, and they'd be expecting to win up there.
• 31:50
  So I think it's going to be great.
• 31:52
  I'm really looking forward to it.
• 31:53
  Cannot wait.
• 31:54
  Right.
• 31:55
  Well, just to wrap up, I think the best way –
• 31:59
  We've both got three tour games, and then the team that does the best in those three tour games will be in the final, either New Zealand or South Africa.
• 32:06
  So whoever's team is in the final, the other person can wear the jersey of that team to support them in the final.
• 32:14
  So, you know, you still owe us an all-black jersey, Victor, so we're looking forward to seeing it.
• 32:20
  Here's another episode of Rugby Rivals, which also offers you wardrobe advice.
• 32:26
  I was almost met All Black 30s at this point.
• 32:28
  Almost.
• 32:28
  Almost.