Latest / The Imperfect Impulse w/Bree O'Connor / S 3 Ep 2 Inspiration/ Derivation
Transcript
- 0:07SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Imperfect Impulse with Bree O'Connor.
- 0:10SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Bree O'Connor.
- 0:13SPEAKER_00: I am healing from having all of that Canada stuck in my lungs from the
- 0:21SPEAKER_00: wildfires
- 0:23SPEAKER_00: a couple of weeks ago.
- 0:25SPEAKER_00: I keep trying to say wildfires and wildflowers comes out of my mouth.
- 0:30SPEAKER_00: That's a very different thing to have stuck in your chest.
- 0:33SPEAKER_00: But anyway...
- 0:35SPEAKER_00: I am healing,
- 0:37SPEAKER_00: which is good news,
- 0:39SPEAKER_00: but I still have some breathiness and whatnot that I have to manage.
- 0:44SPEAKER_00: Hopefully the voice is a bit more tolerable.
- 0:48SPEAKER_00: Today I thought I'd come to the table to talk a little bit about inspiration versus derivation.
- 1:00SPEAKER_00: What is inspired work and what is merely derivative?
- 1:04SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think we know it when we see it.
- 1:07SPEAKER_00: We definitely can tell when it feels like the material feels regurgitated
- 1:14SPEAKER_00: and it feels the same as the last 20 things we saw in this genre and
- 1:19SPEAKER_00: that there's really nothing that it adds to the conversation.
- 1:24SPEAKER_00: And sometimes just because it doesn't advance like some sort
- 1:28SPEAKER_00: of larger social conversation doesn't mean that it isn't of value,
- 1:31SPEAKER_00: that That structure can't provide some joy or release.
- 1:38SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's very satisfying and really all you need is to feel comforted by
- 1:44SPEAKER_00: a ride you've been on before.
- 1:47SPEAKER_00: But sometimes that ride you've been on before loses its steam
- 1:52SPEAKER_00: and you can't quite figure out why does this movie bore me,
- 1:58SPEAKER_00: make me cringe, frustrate me?
- 2:03SPEAKER_00: And a lot of it is because the choices feel stale.
- 2:07SPEAKER_00: They feel a little old.
- 2:09SPEAKER_00: They don't have much life in them.
- 2:12SPEAKER_00: There's no spark.
- 2:14SPEAKER_00: But sometimes those same exact choices in another context can feel comforting and familiar.
- 2:21SPEAKER_00: But with a little fresh twinkle or spin on it.
- 2:25SPEAKER_00: So how do we get that fresh twinkle, that fresh spin on something that is essentially formulaic?
- 2:35SPEAKER_00: We talked last week about briefly, I know I mentioned melodrama.
- 2:42SPEAKER_00: And melodrama tends to poke its head up in certain times of economic stress.
- 2:49SPEAKER_00: I mean, you'll see a surge in the 1890s,
- 2:51SPEAKER_00: you'll see it in the 30s,
- 2:54SPEAKER_00: and you'll even see it in the 1980s as teen dramas sort of took
- 2:59SPEAKER_00: over this melodramatic structure but added on top of it with teen archetypes
- 3:06SPEAKER_00: and often cringey slang.
- 3:10SPEAKER_00: That felt like 30-year-olds trying to talk like 15-year-olds.
- 3:15SPEAKER_00: But we ate it up because,
- 3:17SPEAKER_00: you know, as a child of the 80s, that just meant that we were feeling seen.
- 3:24SPEAKER_00: You know, let's face it, John Hughes had a knack for that.
- 3:29SPEAKER_00: But John Hughes's structure is a little different than the melodrama structure.
- 3:35SPEAKER_00: Which we can talk about there being a very clear villain usually for greed
- 3:41SPEAKER_00: and self-aggrandizement wants to do something to reshape a community.
- 3:47SPEAKER_00: In the 1890s they would have been a wealthy man who wants to put a railroad through
- 3:53SPEAKER_00: the center of town.
- 3:55SPEAKER_00: In the 1980s it's
- 3:57SPEAKER_00: It's a rich guy who wants to knock down the community center to put up a mall.
- 4:04SPEAKER_00: We don't need another mall, so let's breakdance and save the community center.
- 4:10SPEAKER_00: Part of the solution is that you meet the protagonist who is opposed to the villain,
- 4:18SPEAKER_00: to our antagonist.
- 4:21SPEAKER_00: Often struggles with feeling alone and feeling powerless against this antagonist
- 4:28SPEAKER_00: who has influence and financial power or just being an adult.
- 4:35SPEAKER_00: Acknowledging teenagers as having power and agency of their own.
- 4:42SPEAKER_00: That the world is not just happening to them.
- 4:45SPEAKER_00: That they have some ability and wherewithal to gather together and create community
- 4:52SPEAKER_00: for themselves and rise up against their oppressor.
- 4:55SPEAKER_00: And usually with dancing or rock music or whatever.
- 5:00SPEAKER_00: Because that's fun.
- 5:03SPEAKER_00: Because ultimately melodramas are isolated and they're small struggles but they are Fun.
- 5:10SPEAKER_00: And they make us root for this underdog that isn't supposed to make it, right?
- 5:16SPEAKER_00: And where I'm,
- 5:18SPEAKER_00: that was quite a tangent about 80s movies,
- 5:21SPEAKER_00: 80s teen movies in particular, is, is that the inspiration there, the twist.
- 5:28SPEAKER_00: The new thing that adds to the conversation is that teens are present.
- 5:33SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we can get into the difficulties of how we write teenagers and how we see teenagers.
- 5:40SPEAKER_00: That's a conversation for another day.
- 5:43SPEAKER_00: But after this long conversation,
- 5:46SPEAKER_00: I didn't mean to go this far down the rabbit hole with 80s teen movies.
- 5:51SPEAKER_00: But let's talk about where we go off track with those derivative works
- 5:58SPEAKER_00: and we are looking at material that just feels like it recycled an idea
- 6:04SPEAKER_00: that came earlier and was successful but didn't add to the conversation.
- 6:09SPEAKER_00: That didn't have the enthusiasm or spark that makes us feel alive.
- 6:15SPEAKER_00: There's a certain disingenuousness or dishonesty A little phoning it in
- 6:22SPEAKER_00: where we can sense as the audience that like, oh, nobody really wants to be here.
- 6:29SPEAKER_00: Nobody's really that excited about the story.
- 6:31SPEAKER_00: So their choices don't feel new.
- 6:35SPEAKER_00: Okay.
- 6:36SPEAKER_00: So how do we as artists, I don't want to say borrow.
- 6:40SPEAKER_00: I don't want to say steal because I think it's different than that.
- 6:44SPEAKER_00: It's not like, you know, like we'll say the ultimate derivation is AI generated work, right?
- 6:51SPEAKER_00: So we get AI generated work,
- 6:52SPEAKER_00: which literally just takes other things apart and puts them back together and tries
- 6:58SPEAKER_00: to make them somewhat cohesive.
- 7:00SPEAKER_00: And that is, it may present a laugh or two, but it misses the mark.
- 7:07SPEAKER_00: It misses the originality.
- 7:09SPEAKER_00: It misses something that speaks to us as human beings.
- 7:15SPEAKER_00: That which is inspired,
- 7:17SPEAKER_00: I can't really think of a better way to express it other than
- 7:20SPEAKER_00: the artist ingests not only the source material, the thing that they loved.
- 7:26SPEAKER_00: Let's say,
- 7:28SPEAKER_00: let's go way back and say if you're in love with Wuthering Heights and you ingest
- 7:35SPEAKER_00: that and you're like really moved by the The complications and you want to put it
- 7:42SPEAKER_00: into a modern era but you don't want to just rewrite Wuthering Heights.
- 7:48SPEAKER_00: You would like to have something to express something of yourself something
- 7:53SPEAKER_00: that you got out of it something that you would like to share back and add to
- 7:59SPEAKER_00: the conversation because there's something that that spoke to you
- 8:03SPEAKER_00: that you may have felt was deeply hidden or Maybe just a little spark
- 8:10SPEAKER_00: that you would like to highlight and bring to the rest of the world.
- 8:15SPEAKER_00: Make sure that they notice it.
- 8:18SPEAKER_00: Okay, but you need to step outside of Wuthering Heights.
- 8:22SPEAKER_00: What if that storyline appeals to you but you also are like,
- 8:27SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I love the comedy of Mel Brooks.
- 8:29SPEAKER_00: I love the wordplay.
- 8:31SPEAKER_00: I love the vaudeville-like showmanship.
- 8:35SPEAKER_00: Do those two tastes go great together?
- 8:37SPEAKER_00: Not immediately.
- 8:38SPEAKER_00: No.
- 8:40SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I want to see a Mel Brooks version of Wuthering Heights, but maybe I do.
- 8:48SPEAKER_00: If it is run through an artist who Who sees the synthesis of those two things?
- 8:58SPEAKER_00: We can go to Hamilton.
- 9:00SPEAKER_00: When Hamilton came out, people laughed.
- 9:03SPEAKER_00: The concept of the Founding Fathers rapping, it seemed absolutely silly until we heard it.
- 9:12SPEAKER_00: And we went, oh, these two tastes do taste great together.
- 9:18SPEAKER_00: And they do feel like a very modern take on the story
- 9:22SPEAKER_00: without necessarily betraying its actual source material.
- 9:27SPEAKER_00: That's interesting.
- 9:29SPEAKER_00: But what is necessary here in order for your work to be inspired
- 9:36SPEAKER_00: and not derivative is It really boils down in my estimation to one thing.
- 9:44SPEAKER_00: Self-knowledge.
- 9:45SPEAKER_00: Self-awareness.
- 9:47SPEAKER_00: Your understanding of how that work impacted you.
- 9:52SPEAKER_00: Your ability as an artist to find the nuggets that spoke specifically to you and why.
- 10:01SPEAKER_00: Because you're going to get something different out of every story you encounter.
- 10:06SPEAKER_00: You are going to get something different.
- 10:08SPEAKER_00: That is unique to you,
- 10:11SPEAKER_00: but if you are not a self-examining person,
- 10:15SPEAKER_00: you're never going to be able to distill it down to that thing,
- 10:19SPEAKER_00: that spark, that thing that feeds you, that gets to you.
- 10:24SPEAKER_00: That thing that impacted you.
- 10:26SPEAKER_00: For example, I'll mention something from this weekend.
- 10:30SPEAKER_00: We had a number of developmental readings.
- 10:34SPEAKER_00: And in one of the readings,
- 10:36SPEAKER_00: you know,
- 10:36SPEAKER_00: the adults in Nikki Hatsidis' Girls Go Away,
- 10:40SPEAKER_00: which is a play about girls in 1969 who were sent to wait out their pregnancies in
- 10:48SPEAKER_00: a maternity home for teen girls.
- 10:51SPEAKER_00: So that they would not shame their families.
- 10:54SPEAKER_00: And they were coerced into giving up their children for adoption based on oral histories.
- 11:00SPEAKER_00: And shout out to Nikki Hatsitis for a beautiful play.
- 11:04SPEAKER_00: One of the things that struck me in the play is that the adults keep telling
- 11:09SPEAKER_00: the children, we're going to pretend like this didn't happen.
- 11:12SPEAKER_00: It didn't happen.
- 11:13SPEAKER_00: It's not important.
- 11:14SPEAKER_00: You're not a mother.
- 11:16SPEAKER_00: We'll never speak of this again.
- 11:17SPEAKER_00: It's...
- 11:19SPEAKER_00: Essentially this life-changing moment of yours is not important and
- 11:24SPEAKER_00: that child is not yours so you don't need to engage with that child.
- 11:29SPEAKER_00: It will be better for you.
- 11:31SPEAKER_00: When I read it, that's what I heard.
- 11:34SPEAKER_00: That was the fundamental thing that I heard.
- 11:38SPEAKER_00: Was that message that the parent was giving to the child.
- 11:41SPEAKER_00: But when I heard actors read it, I was struck deep in the chest.
- 11:46SPEAKER_00: I suddenly put myself in the child's shoes and the young woman's shoes.
- 11:51SPEAKER_00: As she heard her own mother say, just having a baby isn't enough.
- 11:57SPEAKER_00: That it doesn't matter.
- 11:59SPEAKER_00: It's a forgettable experience.
- 12:02SPEAKER_00: And as a child hearing that from a mother,
- 12:05SPEAKER_00: like you can hear I'm getting a little choked up now just thinking
- 12:08SPEAKER_00: about how vulnerable it is to process this idea that if my birth that I just went
- 12:16SPEAKER_00: through,
- 12:17SPEAKER_00: me giving birth to this child is forgettable and unimportant and that I can move on
- 12:23SPEAKER_00: with my life and forget this ever happened.
- 12:28SPEAKER_00: And my own mother who gave birth to me Is telling me this?
- 12:35SPEAKER_00: How important am I?
- 12:39SPEAKER_00: And that right there is a take that if I were to add to this conversation,
- 12:46SPEAKER_00: that's probably a place I would start.
- 12:48SPEAKER_00: What does it mean to be, to discover or to feel unimportant to your own mother?
- 12:59SPEAKER_00: That hit me very hard.
- 13:01SPEAKER_00: And that is a place that I can begin to explore a new story.
- 13:09SPEAKER_00: I may not go back and copy Nikki's story.
- 13:15SPEAKER_00: I'd be hard-pressed to do so because it's unique in its own right.
- 13:19SPEAKER_00: But you can see where I'm bringing myself and some core thing that I walked away
- 13:26SPEAKER_00: with to create a whole new work that is inspired by Not derivative.
- 13:35SPEAKER_00: Another area that is important for us to consider is
- 13:40SPEAKER_00: that self-awareness automatically helps you to deny cool.
- 13:48SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to use cool with the scare quotes around it.
- 13:51SPEAKER_00: You can't see me, but I'm definitely making them.
- 13:55SPEAKER_00: Because cool means that you are focused on What other people might think,
- 14:02SPEAKER_00: what they might enjoy,
- 14:04SPEAKER_00: what they might want,
- 14:06SPEAKER_00: what is popular,
- 14:08SPEAKER_00: what is at the zeitgeist and that is automatically removed from yourself.
- 14:14SPEAKER_00: Now some people are really quite brilliant and have their finger on The pulse of
- 14:20SPEAKER_00: the moment, you know, whoever those people are, God bless them, I'm not one of them.
- 14:25SPEAKER_00: But I know that.
- 14:28SPEAKER_00: As an artist, I am aware that I can't quite be concerned with cool.
- 14:35SPEAKER_00: That is not my natural way of being.
- 14:38SPEAKER_00: I don't connect with cool.
- 14:41SPEAKER_00: So trying to be cool,
- 14:45SPEAKER_00: or trying to Be more in connection with cool would be false
- 14:50SPEAKER_00: to my artistic expression.
- 14:53SPEAKER_00: An audience can sniff that stuff out and they will find your work lacking
- 15:01SPEAKER_00: in truthfulness or integrity.
- 15:04SPEAKER_00: You can't lie to them.
- 15:06SPEAKER_00: I mean, they may still enjoy whatever you present,
- 15:10SPEAKER_00: but they will know when you are being false to yourself.
- 15:15SPEAKER_00: Even if you don't see it, they can tell.
- 15:19SPEAKER_00: They may not be able to verbalize it, but they absolutely can tell.
- 15:25SPEAKER_00: And that brings me right back to 80s teen movies for a second.
- 15:30SPEAKER_00: Because there was always this scene...
- 15:34SPEAKER_00: And girls just want to have fun.
- 15:36SPEAKER_00: That even as a teenager,
- 15:38SPEAKER_00: the first time I saw it,
- 15:40SPEAKER_00: it made me want to rip my hair out because I was so embarrassed to be seen watching
- 15:45SPEAKER_00: that scene.
- 15:46SPEAKER_00: It's almost worth watching just to see how bad that scene is.
- 15:51SPEAKER_00: It's also poorly shot so it feels like they needed to close some sort
- 15:56SPEAKER_00: of narrative gap and their solution was to create this scene in an alleyway.
- 16:02SPEAKER_00: Where the young gentleman who is the love interest of the protagonist female played
- 16:07SPEAKER_00: by Sarah Jessica Parker,
- 16:10SPEAKER_00: where he is in this alleyway standing next to his motorcycle because
- 16:16SPEAKER_00: of course he rode a motorcycle.
- 16:18SPEAKER_00: And then the mean girl who is sort of the teen stand-in for the,
- 16:22SPEAKER_00: you know, the Mustache swirling villain of the picture.
- 16:28SPEAKER_00: She's trying to poach him as her dance partner for the big dance contest
- 16:34SPEAKER_00: and she's flirting with him around this motorcycle and all you see is a brick wall
- 16:39SPEAKER_00: of this alley and it's poorly lit.
- 16:42SPEAKER_00: So you can tell it's not a real Allie, it's a pretend Allie.
- 16:46SPEAKER_00: And they're both using this overblown teenage vernacular that's so full of the slang
- 16:54SPEAKER_00: of the movie that they're almost not saying anything at all.
- 17:00SPEAKER_00: They're just speaking in this slang that no teenager that I knew spoke that way.
- 17:07SPEAKER_00: And yet here were these two characters spouting ridiculous...
- 17:13SPEAKER_00: Language at one another and trying to make it feel like it's a scene of temptation,
- 17:18SPEAKER_00: a scene of seduction.
- 17:21SPEAKER_00: And ew, it's just god awful.
- 17:26SPEAKER_00: And so like,
- 17:27SPEAKER_00: even though I couldn't tell you what was wrong with the scene as a teenager
- 17:34SPEAKER_00: who was supposed to be the audience for this film,
- 17:37SPEAKER_00: I felt like a violent physical reaction to this poorly written, untrue scene.
- 17:47SPEAKER_00: It felt like a bunch of adult writers in a room somewhere trying to fix
- 17:53SPEAKER_00: a narrative gap and trying to write something that sounded cool.
- 17:58SPEAKER_00: And hoping that that would carry the scene so you could get to the next plot point.
- 18:05SPEAKER_00: And I feel like it failed miserably because there was nothing that was like true to
- 18:11SPEAKER_00: the honest voice, the honest self.
- 18:15SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's okay to be...
- 18:18SPEAKER_00: To please an audience, I mean, ultimately that's our goal, right?
- 18:22SPEAKER_00: We want to please our audience.
- 18:25SPEAKER_00: But if we go to a space where we will try to be someone we are not in order
- 18:33SPEAKER_00: to please the audience, the audience, they're not dumb.
- 18:37SPEAKER_00: They're not dumb at all.
- 18:39SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, but you're going to have to be vulnerable and open and honest.
- 18:45SPEAKER_00: That's really the only way to do it.
- 18:49SPEAKER_00: My apologies.
- 18:51SPEAKER_00: I know that's hard.
- 18:53SPEAKER_00: I think that it's really important for us as artists as we're consuming material
- 18:58SPEAKER_00: to really seriously hone our own bullshit meters.
- 19:03SPEAKER_00: You're going to have to key in with your body and where your body is telling you
- 19:10SPEAKER_00: that something is wrong.
- 19:12SPEAKER_00: Because if you can see it in someone else's work,
- 19:15SPEAKER_00: if you can see it in other people's dialogue or in you can catch the,
- 19:21SPEAKER_00: you know, sorry,
- 19:22SPEAKER_00: but the bullshit,
- 19:24SPEAKER_00: then you'll be more attuned to it when it comes out in your work,
- 19:27SPEAKER_00: when you're seeing that your writing is hiding something,
- 19:31SPEAKER_00: when your writing is glossing over something that you didn't wish was true.
- 19:36SPEAKER_00: For example,
- 19:37SPEAKER_00: I recently read a biography,
- 19:39SPEAKER_00: and I won't Go to which one because I actually enjoyed it
- 19:43SPEAKER_00: and I don't want this autobiography to be unfairly colored because
- 19:52SPEAKER_00: the author had had a very traumatic formative experience that lasted a number
- 20:00SPEAKER_00: of years.
- 20:01SPEAKER_00: And throughout the writing of this piece there was a constant level of I don't want
- 20:09SPEAKER_00: to say necessarily denial,
- 20:11SPEAKER_00: but there was this facade that the author was trying to put forward that was like,
- 20:18SPEAKER_00: everything's okay now,
- 20:20SPEAKER_00: I've healed from this trauma and I've made peace with it and everybody's fine now.
- 20:27SPEAKER_00: It was repeated so often and not held up with any real evidence.
- 20:36SPEAKER_00: So my bullshit meter went off throughout the last quarter of the book
- 20:41SPEAKER_00: because I didn't believe that these things could happen and
- 20:47SPEAKER_00: the author was just coming to terms with those things that everything was fine.
- 20:54SPEAKER_00: Methinks thou doth protest too much.
- 20:57SPEAKER_00: I think it's really important for us to hone that meter inside ourselves.
- 21:02SPEAKER_00: Number one,
- 21:03SPEAKER_00: because it's a useful tool to have in a very complicated world to be able
- 21:08SPEAKER_00: to suss out who's being truly honest and who's trying to tell you what you want
- 21:15SPEAKER_00: to hear or what they think you want to hear.
- 21:19SPEAKER_00: But also as an artist, we can tell when we are papering over something.
- 21:25SPEAKER_00: And trying to protect or deny a reality that we've experienced because other people can tell.
- 21:34SPEAKER_00: And once again,
- 21:36SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry,
- 21:36SPEAKER_00: but to be the best artist you can be,
- 21:39SPEAKER_00: you need to put out work that you are confident in your own honesty
- 21:44SPEAKER_00: about those experiences.
- 21:46SPEAKER_00: So avoid the trap of cool.
- 21:48SPEAKER_00: Add to the conversation.
- 21:51SPEAKER_00: Make sure that what you are adding is coming truly from yourself
- 21:57SPEAKER_00: and what has impacted you from the original work.
- 22:01SPEAKER_00: Provide your own unique perspective on that original material.
- 22:07SPEAKER_00: Add other material that can compare and contrast and other influences to make a brand new stew.
- 22:15SPEAKER_00: Develop your bullshit meter.
- 22:18SPEAKER_00: And that thing, that narrative thing that you are like, no, that's too crazy.
- 22:24SPEAKER_00: That's too much.
- 22:25SPEAKER_00: I can't do that.
- 22:26SPEAKER_00: That's definitely something that you should explore.
- 22:30SPEAKER_00: We had this really good conversation in our writers group last night
- 22:33SPEAKER_00: about how your characters get a say.
- 22:38SPEAKER_00: And sometimes they will be obstinate.
- 22:41SPEAKER_00: They will demand that you
- 22:46SPEAKER_00: They will demand that you write them a certain way.
- 22:49SPEAKER_00: When you build them to such an extent that they are real voices that come through
- 22:57SPEAKER_00: the page,
- 22:58SPEAKER_00: they are going to start dictating their own behavior and you have no choice but
- 23:04SPEAKER_00: to follow it.
- 23:06SPEAKER_00: Because as soon as you start to force them into another direction, you are going to hit that.
- 23:13SPEAKER_00: That false tone you're gonna hit the gong of a lie and your audience will hear
- 23:22SPEAKER_00: that jangling sound and that's something that you want to avoid at all costs
- 23:30SPEAKER_00: and I think this is true whether or not you are Inspired by a piece of work
- 23:37SPEAKER_00: and are trying to incorporate it into your own story or if
- 23:43SPEAKER_00: the story is directly coming from you.
- 23:47SPEAKER_00: Although, let's face it, nothing is 100% our own.
- 23:54SPEAKER_00: We are children of a media age and we have been ingesting story from the beginning
- 24:01SPEAKER_00: and With each successive generation,
- 24:05SPEAKER_00: there are more and more and more and more and more and more stories to ingest and
- 24:10SPEAKER_00: to consume.
- 24:11SPEAKER_00: So our stories are really a continuation of all the stories that have come before.
- 24:18SPEAKER_00: We have to both admit that, embrace that, accept it, run it through our systems.
- 24:27SPEAKER_00: And let it come out with honesty and integrity.
- 24:32SPEAKER_00: So that's it, right?
- 24:33SPEAKER_00: That's simple enough.
- 24:34SPEAKER_00: Why don't you just go do that?
- 24:36SPEAKER_00: Okay.
- 24:38SPEAKER_00: I know.
- 24:38SPEAKER_00: It's not the easiest thing in the world.
- 24:40SPEAKER_00: But that's what we sign up for.
- 24:44SPEAKER_00: Alright, my storytellers.
- 24:46SPEAKER_00: That is it for me today on the Imperfect Impulse.
- 24:53SPEAKER_00: I hope you have a wonderful upcoming week.
- 24:57SPEAKER_00: And my voice hopefully will just continue to improve even though I can't stop talking.
- 25:03SPEAKER_00: So that's it.
- 25:06SPEAKER_00: I'm Bree O'Connor and this has been the Imperfect Impulse.