Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 8-year-old boy & 4-year-old little sister found hanged with dog leash in basement, perv mom calls 911.

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8-year-old boy & 4-year-old little sister found hanged with dog leash in basement, perv mom calls 911. · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:04
Speaker 1: A Pennsylvania mom says she goes down stairs into the
0:08
Speaker 1: family basement only to find her eight year old little
0:12
Speaker 1: boy Connor, and her four year old little girl Brindley dead.
0:19
Speaker 1: To make matters worse, death by suicide, a double hanging
0:26
Speaker 1: by the family dog's new metal dog lead how could
0:34
Speaker 1: this happen? Police immediately seize the little boy's xbox he
0:39
Speaker 1: was known to play on it to send messages. They
0:43
Speaker 1: see used iPads, phones, a laptop. The children rushed to
0:48
Speaker 1: a local hospital where they were put on life support.
0:51
Speaker 1: They died fourteen minutes apart. We want justice. I'm Nancy
0:59
Speaker 1: Grace his crime stories. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. From
1:14
Speaker 1: the caller Boli shildren Husman, they're hung in the unknown
1:18
Speaker 1: time of first can you repeat that for one? Both
1:22
Speaker 1: children are hanging in the basement first Steptain forty four
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Speaker 1: one half the forty four Any indication from the callers
1:29
Speaker 1: to seen a state or how these children handed up there.
1:33
Speaker 1: She mentioned that the eight year old has been void
1:35
Speaker 1: and has made threats of doing this with the didn't
1:38
Speaker 1: want to go alone, and probably he may be the
1:41
Speaker 1: landshorld situation. At this time, it should just be the
1:44
Speaker 1: mother of the three children on seen two children dead
1:48
Speaker 1: hung in the basement. It's really hard for me to
1:51
Speaker 1: believe that an eight year old little boy, Connor Snyder,
1:55
Speaker 1: spoke of suicide and had the wherewithal to hang himself.
2:00
Speaker 1: Is it possible? Yes? Is it probable? I don't think so.
2:05
Speaker 1: And he didn't want to go by himself. So what
2:09
Speaker 1: he lured his four year old little sister to hang
2:12
Speaker 1: herself as well? How could an eight year old pull
2:15
Speaker 1: that off? I'm Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank
2:19
Speaker 1: you for being with us, and I can tell you
2:22
Speaker 1: one thing. I want justice. As police intensified their search
2:30
Speaker 1: for the truth, they hone in on an xbox for
2:35
Speaker 1: clues after an eight year old boy and his four
2:37
Speaker 1: year old sister are found hanged in the basement of
2:41
Speaker 1: their Pennsylvania home by a dog leash. As mystery continues
2:46
Speaker 1: to surround their deaths now, let me make one thing
2:50
Speaker 1: very very clear. Do I like reporting on this No?
2:55
Speaker 1: I do not. It reminds me of trying cases in
2:58
Speaker 1: front of juries. The worlds are bitter in my mouth.
3:02
Speaker 1: But I want the truth. And not only do I
3:05
Speaker 1: want the truth, I want other moms and dad's grandparents
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Speaker 1: aunt's uncles to know what happened so they can avoid
3:16
Speaker 1: a horrible thing like this happening in their family. Joining
3:20
Speaker 1: me right now in all Star panel first of All
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Speaker 1: judge and trial lawyer anchor at Court TV. You can
3:25
Speaker 1: find her at Ashley Wilcot dot com. Ashley Wilcott Joining me.
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Speaker 1: Cloyd Steiger thirty six years Seattle Police twenty two years
3:32
Speaker 1: homicide author can find him at Cloyd Steiger dot com.
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Speaker 1: Renowned psychologist doctor Karen Stark joining me out of London today.
3:42
Speaker 1: You can find her at Karnstark dot com. Doctor Katherine
3:45
Speaker 1: Maloney the Deputy Chief Medical Examiner, Erie County Medical Examiner's Office, Buffalo,
3:50
Speaker 1: New York. You can also find her at Nicols City
3:54
Speaker 1: Forensics dot com. But right now to investigate a reporter
3:58
Speaker 1: with Radar Online dot com. Alexis Terrestaurant. I'm having a
4:03
Speaker 1: really hard time understanding how an eight year old boy
4:07
Speaker 1: and his four year old sister were masterminds of a
4:11
Speaker 1: double suicide. Alexis tell me the fact scenarios surrounding their death. Well,
4:17
Speaker 1: the mom says she made a call to nine one one.
4:21
Speaker 1: She said she had been upstairs in the house. The
4:25
Speaker 1: kids have been playing together, she said. She decided to
4:28
Speaker 1: go outside for a cigarette. She comes back about ten
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Speaker 1: minutes later. She usually hears the children. She hears them playing,
4:35
Speaker 1: she hears them laughing maybe, but she hears them fighting.
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Speaker 1: She doesn't hear them at all, So she comes back
4:40
Speaker 1: inside the house. She looks around, she doesn't see them.
4:43
Speaker 1: She goes downstairs in the basement of the house, where
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Speaker 1: she sees the children are hanging from a dog lead.
4:50
Speaker 1: And what she sees in the scene is the little
4:53
Speaker 1: boy eight, little sister four have stood up. They've tied
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Speaker 1: at their necks, rope around their necks, stood on dining
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Speaker 1: room table chairs and kicked the chairs away, and she
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Speaker 1: finds them hanging there. You know, it's almost too much
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Speaker 1: for me to take in. Alexis, you have a beautiful,
5:12
Speaker 1: beautiful little boy. How old is he now? He is five? Oh, Lord,
5:17
Speaker 1: have mercy. It just it seems like yesterday. You know,
5:20
Speaker 1: we were all there in the hospital, and remember your
5:23
Speaker 1: lung collapsed and you had so many problems, and you
5:26
Speaker 1: were there for My husband loved it. And now he's
5:31
Speaker 1: five years old. Ashley, I know how old your three are.
5:36
Speaker 1: And it's not just us, everybody on the panel either
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Speaker 1: has a child or has a relative child four years old.
5:47
Speaker 1: Don't judge me, especially you, Ashley will all caught miss perfect.
5:51
Speaker 1: But I was just putting together two sixteen Christmas album.
5:57
Speaker 1: I was determined that I would not be three years
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Speaker 1: behind come this Christmas just two years behind. And I
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Speaker 1: was looking at the pictures of the twins, and it
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Speaker 1: nearly broke my heart to think, Ashley Willcott trial lawyer
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Speaker 1: and judge, that these two could have masterminded their own suicide. Ashley,
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Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends at WTX. At Fox
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Speaker 1: twenty nine, is Jeff Carr. The Burts County District Attorney
6:24
Speaker 1: is refusing comment on the investigation, but the claims of
6:27
Speaker 1: bullying have shifted focus somewhat to the local elementary school
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Speaker 1: Connor attended, where counseling is offered. Connor was a beloved
6:34
Speaker 1: member of the Creamwich Elementary School community who enjoyed his
6:38
Speaker 1: peers and teachers. He's dearly missed as fondly remembered for
6:41
Speaker 1: the smile that he brought on his face and he
6:44
Speaker 1: brought to the people he encountering each day. Search warrants
6:46
Speaker 1: reveal investigators have taken electronic equipment from the home, including
6:51
Speaker 1: an Xbox and the plastic coated wire. Investigators learned Snyder
6:55
Speaker 1: had multiple cell phones and returned with warrants to obtain
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Speaker 1: two of them. The probe continues to find out what
7:03
Speaker 1: happened inside the two story brick that stands tonight with
7:08
Speaker 1: all the shades down. The County Corner has not ruled
7:11
Speaker 1: on our cause of death, saying there is still more
7:13
Speaker 1: testing required. Last Saturday would have been Connor's ninth birthday.
7:18
Speaker 1: Snyder immediately call nine one one, and first responders at
7:21
Speaker 1: the scene were able to revive both children. They were
7:25
Speaker 1: raced to the Lehigh Valley Hospital Cedar Crest, where they
7:29
Speaker 1: were put on life support. Both children died three days
7:33
Speaker 1: later and fourteen minutes apart after they were taken off
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Speaker 1: life support. At first, of course, we see the cops
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Speaker 1: seizing all of the electronics, including an Xbox to Floyd Steiger,
7:48
Speaker 1: Seattle PD, gluding twenty two years on homicide. Why the
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Speaker 1: xbox and what information can be obtained from an xbox?
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Speaker 1: Cloyd Well. Xbox is a computer like any other computer,
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Speaker 1: and it has a hard drive that searches and other
8:05
Speaker 1: things can be gleaned from by computer experts and I'm
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Speaker 1: sure they took all the electronics out of the house
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Speaker 1: because they're seeing if this kid really contemplated suicide, did
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Speaker 1: he tell anybody about it online? Did he did he
8:18
Speaker 1: search to things online having to do with that, So
8:21
Speaker 1: that would be the reason they take that it's a
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Speaker 1: good piece of information or a good source of evidence.
8:26
Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcott, let's talk about Xbox. You know, when John
8:31
Speaker 1: David finishes his homework and whatever he's got to do,
8:33
Speaker 1: Lucy is not obsessed as much. She's all about TikTok
8:37
Speaker 1: right now, taking pictures of herself. But Xbox. I hear
8:43
Speaker 1: John David on his PS four and he's playing games,
8:48
Speaker 1: and at the same time he's talking. It sounds like
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Speaker 1: he's talking to ten different children and they're They're all,
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Speaker 1: I don't know what they do. I stand over's shoulder,
8:57
Speaker 1: I find out who he's talking to, him playing with,
9:00
Speaker 1: and then I'll let nature take its course. But Ashley,
9:03
Speaker 1: what can be gleaned, as Cloyd Steiger was saying from
9:07
Speaker 1: the Xbox that this eight year old boy, Connor Snyder
9:10
Speaker 1: was playing on what you can glean as a whole
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Speaker 1: lot of information about this mother's allegation statement that he
9:17
Speaker 1: killed himself. You want to look at what was his demeanor,
9:21
Speaker 1: what was he doing, how was he acting? And guess what.
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Speaker 1: I would suggest that if you have any child, especially
9:27
Speaker 1: an eight year old who's playing on an Xbox and
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Speaker 1: you see has history of playing with friends and playing
9:33
Speaker 1: different games and doing different things, that is not indicative
9:36
Speaker 1: to me of an eight year old who has suppressed
9:39
Speaker 1: or has such issues that they might try to kill themselves.
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Speaker 1: Number two, I have to throw in why I have
9:44
Speaker 1: a chance an eight year old is not going to
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Speaker 1: hang themselves. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, their mother reportedly
10:06
Speaker 1: told a dispatcher bullying could be to blame for the tragedy.
10:11
Speaker 1: Cards three. The initial transmission from dispatchers on September twenty
10:17
Speaker 1: third let first responders know it was two children that
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Speaker 1: needed help inside this Albany Township home. The horrifying detail
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Speaker 1: about how they were found came next. Hanging in the basement.
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Speaker 1: It was eight year old Connor and four year old
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Speaker 1: Brindley Snyder found hanging in the basement. Court documents show
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Speaker 1: it was their mother, Lisa, who says she found her children.
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Speaker 1: Prosecutors confirmed state police have gotten several search warrants in
10:41
Speaker 1: the investigation, including for two of Lisa's cell phones. Lisa
10:45
Speaker 1: has not spoken publicly about her loss, and for more
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Speaker 1: than two weeks, with autopsy's deem still inconclusive, no clear
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Speaker 1: answers about why or how the young brother and sister
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Speaker 1: wound up in that basement. Court documents revealed the children
10:59
Speaker 1: were hanging three feet apart with a wire wrapped around
11:02
Speaker 1: a support beam in the basement at around both their
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Speaker 1: necks and on the floor two chairs knocked over. It's
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Speaker 1: really really hard for me to hear those facts. You're
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Speaker 1: hearing our friend at wtx F Fox twenty nine, that
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Speaker 1: was Jeff Cole reporting. Interesting. I'm taking in every detail
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Speaker 1: of what I'm hearing to doctor Katherine Maloney. Everyone, we
11:26
Speaker 1: are really privileged to have the Deputy Chief Medical Examiner,
11:29
Speaker 1: Erie County Medical Examiner's office in Buffalo. You can also
11:32
Speaker 1: find her at Nicol City Forensics dot com. Doctor Katherine,
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Speaker 1: I'm hearing about now. One thing is really concerning me.
11:43
Speaker 1: The wire. The wire, because we first heard that their
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Speaker 1: hangings were affected by a or more than one dog leash.
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Speaker 1: Now I'm hearing a wire was involved, explained to me
11:59
Speaker 1: Doctor Kather and Maloney. How that would work well. Generally
12:03
Speaker 1: with a hanging, you basically need to provide enough pressure
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Speaker 1: around the neck that you're closing off the blood vessels
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Speaker 1: that are going to and from the head. So really
12:13
Speaker 1: any object might work, so electrical wires or a dog leash,
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Speaker 1: or a rope or something like that. These objects also
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Speaker 1: work just as well for a ligature strangulation, but could
12:26
Speaker 1: potentially be used for a hanging. I just don't understand
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Speaker 1: how an eight year old could affect this double suicide.
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Speaker 1: It's a wire dog leash made for big dogs. Jackie
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Speaker 1: here is telling me that makes more sense. Alexis to
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Speaker 1: russhuck I investigate a report Radar online dot com. At
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Speaker 1: first I heard dog leash, I thought of our dog leash,
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Speaker 1: which is nylon or rope of some sort, and that's
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Speaker 1: what I thought of. But I wasn't thinking of a
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Speaker 1: metal type dog leash. It's actually a dog lead, and
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Speaker 1: so it's less of the material and more of something
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Speaker 1: that would lead a bigger dog. If that does that
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Speaker 1: make sense, yes, it does. Take a listen. Alexis to
13:15
Speaker 1: our friends at Philly NBC ten. This is Steven Fisher.
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Speaker 1: Two kids were found unconscious inside this house here in
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Speaker 1: Albany Township. A few days later, they were both pronounced
13:24
Speaker 1: dead at the hospital. The Burks County District Attorney, along
13:27
Speaker 1: with state police, they're investigating, but so far there are
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Speaker 1: many more questions than answers. Police and first responders were
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Speaker 1: called to this house along State Route one forty three
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Speaker 1: in Albany Township, Burks County. When they got here, two
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Speaker 1: kids were found inside and unconscious. Both were flown to
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Speaker 1: the hospital. Then three days later, on Thursday, eight year
13:48
Speaker 1: old Connor Snyder and four year old Brindley Snyder were
13:50
Speaker 1: pronounced dead. Police have only said that their cause of
13:53
Speaker 1: death was related to injuries they sustained last Monday. With
13:57
Speaker 1: many questions going unanswered, sweet rumors have started to swirl
14:01
Speaker 1: here in this small town of about seventeen hundred people.
14:05
Speaker 1: Autopsies were scheduled today, which would have determined the cause
14:08
Speaker 1: and manner of death for both Brindley and Connor. However,
14:12
Speaker 1: the corner's report came back unclear, saying they need additional
14:15
Speaker 1: forensic testing. Police and the DA's officer trying to determine
14:19
Speaker 1: if this was some sort of accident or if a
14:21
Speaker 1: crime took place. Okay, I'm trying to figure out what
14:24
Speaker 1: they're looking for, and before I go to doctor Katherine
14:27
Speaker 1: Maloney out of Buffalo, regarding what we're just hearing that
14:32
Speaker 1: the corner's report is unclear. I don't know how clear
14:35
Speaker 1: it's got to be to know they were strangled by
14:40
Speaker 1: a dog lead. But regarding taking the Xbox of the
14:44
Speaker 1: little boy eight year O'Connor Snyder, I know that Microsoft
14:47
Speaker 1: has just added anti bullying message filters to Xbox Live. Bullying, racism,
14:55
Speaker 1: toxic language have long been problems on Xbox basically as
15:01
Speaker 1: long as it has existed. But now, instead of just
15:04
Speaker 1: moderating that afterwards, Microsoft has actually added four levels of
15:11
Speaker 1: text filters to Xbox Live, and you can have friendly, medium, mature,
15:19
Speaker 1: and unfiltered. What I'm telling you is it's not just
15:24
Speaker 1: a game. Children and I guess adults get on Xbox
15:28
Speaker 1: and play, but they speak to each other and they're
15:33
Speaker 1: not just playing a game. It's just like being in
15:35
Speaker 1: an arcade with a bunch of little boys or girls
15:39
Speaker 1: playing Xbox. They can say anything they want to. They
15:43
Speaker 1: can bully, they can say racist slurs, they can curse,
15:47
Speaker 1: and they can type and speak bullying language. Now immediately
15:53
Speaker 1: cops start looking at this child's xbox. But I noticed
15:57
Speaker 1: they had to give a warrant to mommy to get
16:00
Speaker 1: our cell phones. Man, I'd be laying on the courthouse
16:02
Speaker 1: steps begging please take my blood, take my DNA, take
16:06
Speaker 1: my fingerprints, take my cell phone, whatever you want. Just
16:09
Speaker 1: help me, you know. To doctor Katherine Maloney, they're found
16:15
Speaker 1: hanging in the basement with dog leads, metal dog leads.
16:19
Speaker 1: What's the problem. Why can the medical examiner make a decision?
16:24
Speaker 1: The Corners report came back unclear and need some more
16:27
Speaker 1: forensic testing. What does that mean? Forensic testing on what well.
16:31
Speaker 1: It's possible they're having experts look at some of the findings.
16:35
Speaker 1: For example, sometimes you might have an anthropologist look at
16:39
Speaker 1: the next structures and sometimes they can determine if there
16:43
Speaker 1: are injuries that are more consistent with some type of
16:46
Speaker 1: strangulation versus hanging, a suicidal hanging. So they might be
16:51
Speaker 1: waiting for something like that, or it's possible they're waiting
16:53
Speaker 1: for more investigation to be performed by the police, or
16:57
Speaker 1: maybe medical records or the investigation with the school to
17:00
Speaker 1: be completed before they make a final determination, because nothing
17:03
Speaker 1: definitive was founded autopsy, especially after a few days in
17:07
Speaker 1: the hospital. Maybe it was difficult for them to determine
17:10
Speaker 1: if this could have been a ligature strangulation versus a
17:15
Speaker 1: hanging versus a manual strangulation. But then there's so many
17:19
Speaker 1: factors weighing into this decision. Karen Stark, do you believe
17:25
Speaker 1: an eight year old could be bullied that badly on
17:28
Speaker 1: Xbox on the internet so as to commit suicide and
17:32
Speaker 1: take the little sister with him? An eight year old,
17:35
Speaker 1: even beginning to an ear old who really doesn't have
17:39
Speaker 1: good hand eye coordination as I've read, this little boy
17:44
Speaker 1: didn't have being able to do all of that and
17:48
Speaker 1: think ahead and figure out how to hang himself and
17:52
Speaker 1: his sister. None of that is pribable to me. I
17:55
Speaker 1: know it's almost too much for me to take in
17:58
Speaker 1: that an eight year old could do this, But I
18:00
Speaker 1: want you, especially Karen, to listen to what we hear
18:04
Speaker 1: out of Burke's County said that Connor was bullied and
18:09
Speaker 1: wanted to die. Connor hated school, and Connor was scared
18:14
Speaker 1: to go by himself, and that is why he had
18:17
Speaker 1: Bridley with it. As you will recall, Connor was only
18:23
Speaker 1: eight years of age. Pennsylvania State Police gathered video from
18:30
Speaker 1: the bus the school bus which brought Connor home on
18:34
Speaker 1: September twenty thirty, twenty nineteen. The video showed no signs
18:40
Speaker 1: that Connor was in any distress whatsoever. In back from
18:44
Speaker 1: the video, she appeared to be a happy child. Other
18:50
Speaker 1: witnesses also told police that Connor was not bulleyed at
18:54
Speaker 1: school and never complained about school. Officials and family members
19:00
Speaker 1: were interviewed and indicated that Connor never expressed that he
19:04
Speaker 1: was boring or suicidal. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The
19:28
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania State Police also responded they immediately obtained a search
19:32
Speaker 1: warrant to search the residence and the initial search warrant
19:36
Speaker 1: and he found a number of things, including the vinyl
19:40
Speaker 1: wire tie out dog cable which was labeled Super and
19:44
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty pounds. This dog lead cable had
19:48
Speaker 1: been ordered by the defendant the day before September twenty seven,
19:54
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, and Lisa Snyder picked up this dog cable
20:00
Speaker 1: on September twenty third at nine thirty am from the Walmart,
20:04
Speaker 1: Okay hold on just a moment, Welcome back. I'm Nancy Grace.
20:08
Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories and with me an all star panel,
20:11
Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcott, Cloyd Steiger, doctor Karen Stok, doctor Katherine Maloney,
20:16
Speaker 1: and Alexis terres Chuck investigative reporter. Did anybody but me
20:21
Speaker 1: just hear that, Alexis tres Chuck, you didn't tell me
20:25
Speaker 1: that the dog leash had just been ordered the day
20:29
Speaker 1: before it was used to hang the children. You know,
20:33
Speaker 1: I always say there is no coincidence in criminal law, Alexis,
20:36
Speaker 1: what do we know about the ordering of the dog leash? Well,
20:39
Speaker 1: the mom said that she ordered it from Walmarch, She
20:42
Speaker 1: picked it up that morning and that the kids wanted
20:44
Speaker 1: to play with it because it was brand new. That
20:46
Speaker 1: was her explanation to the police when they got there
20:49
Speaker 1: and found that the children hanging. She said they had
20:51
Speaker 1: wanted to play with it since it was a brand
20:52
Speaker 1: new toy, and she went ahead and let them. But yeah,
20:55
Speaker 1: she ordered it the day before. Okay, I've got a
20:57
Speaker 1: problem with that. So it's all coming together now that
21:03
Speaker 1: based on a video of the little boy on the
21:05
Speaker 1: school bus, he didn't seem to be depressed in any way,
21:10
Speaker 1: to be afraid in any way. So it concerns me
21:15
Speaker 1: of course, ashe Wilcott, you're raising children of your own.
21:19
Speaker 1: You see them every day at work. Videos don't always
21:24
Speaker 1: tell everything. People children smile for the camera when inside
21:28
Speaker 1: they're dying, they're being abused. I mean, look at the
21:31
Speaker 1: House of Horrors out in California, the Turpin family, remember,
21:34
Speaker 1: the whole bunch of them would put on their matching
21:36
Speaker 1: Disney outfits and smile for the camera. They were being
21:38
Speaker 1: starved and shamed of their beds at home every day. Yeah,
21:41
Speaker 1: and it's really important to keep in mind. I see
21:43
Speaker 1: abused and neglected children as a judge and juvenile court
21:46
Speaker 1: all the time, and the reality is a they can
21:48
Speaker 1: appear to be really, really happy and be a lot
21:52
Speaker 1: of kids, even young kids, statistically do commit suicides that
21:57
Speaker 1: on the outside appear to be perfectly happy and smiling
22:02
Speaker 1: and making AI's and extracurricular activities and everybody likes them.
22:06
Speaker 1: And they can still either commit to the side or
22:10
Speaker 1: be the victim of child abuse and neglect. So a
22:12
Speaker 1: really important point that you made. I got another problem
22:15
Speaker 1: with this case. When one fact is off kilter, I'll
22:19
Speaker 1: look for a way to explain it. I had what
22:22
Speaker 1: I consider the best trild judge ever as my judge
22:25
Speaker 1: for many years in Inner City Atlanta, Luther Alverson, and
22:29
Speaker 1: he maybe he was common sense because he used to
22:32
Speaker 1: be a barber before he was a judge. He would
22:35
Speaker 1: tell every single jury under the law of the Criminal Code,
22:38
Speaker 1: it is your duty to make all witnesses speak the
22:40
Speaker 1: truth and impu and perjury on no one. In other words,
22:44
Speaker 1: facts can seem inconsistent, but you can divine a way
22:48
Speaker 1: to make them fit like a ruby's cute, so they
22:50
Speaker 1: all make sense and none of them are false. But
22:53
Speaker 1: I've got a problem with this. Take a listen to
22:58
Speaker 1: our friends over at WGA news. Hey, this is Meredith Georgison.
23:01
Speaker 1: The brother and sister were found hanging in the basement
23:04
Speaker 1: of this home, but police hope it's the other items
23:07
Speaker 1: they found in the house that will help unlock the
23:10
Speaker 1: mystery of their deaths. Eight year old Connor Snyder and
23:14
Speaker 1: four year old Brinley Snyder were pronounced dead three days
23:17
Speaker 1: after they were found suspended from a basement beam with
23:21
Speaker 1: a wire cable around their necks. Autopsy results are still
23:25
Speaker 1: pending and no one has been charged, leaving a lot
23:28
Speaker 1: of unanswered questions. What state police say. The investigation is
23:33
Speaker 1: far from over. You have to rely on physical evidence, interviews,
23:38
Speaker 1: that's why we search warrants for phone stuff, computer stuff.
23:44
Speaker 1: It's just still a very active, ongoing investigation among the electronics.
23:49
Speaker 1: A search warrant shows police gathered an Xbox gaming console.
23:54
Speaker 1: And we spoke with neighbors on either side of this
23:57
Speaker 1: home and they say they are distraught by this news,
24:01
Speaker 1: but didn't want to comment further. You know, to Cloyd's
24:03
Speaker 1: Tiger twenty two years homicide detective and author Cloyd, the
24:09
Speaker 1: goal standard to me is Mark Class because when his
24:13
Speaker 1: daughter Polly went missing from a spend the night party
24:16
Speaker 1: at her own home, Okay, cops came to him, he insisted,
24:22
Speaker 1: take my DNA, take my fingerprints, whatever you want, search
24:26
Speaker 1: my place, search my car. I don't care, just find
24:28
Speaker 1: the person that took Polly. Polly was murdered. Certainly, Mark Class,
24:33
Speaker 1: her father had nothing to do with it. But I
24:36
Speaker 1: find it very disturbing that this mom. You know, with
24:40
Speaker 1: most moms and dads, they'll sign a consent, hey, look
24:43
Speaker 1: anywhere you want. They had to get a search warrant
24:45
Speaker 1: from this mom. I don't understand what was it on
24:48
Speaker 1: her cell phone? She didn't want anybody to see. Well,
24:50
Speaker 1: I think first of all, getting a stretch warted, just
24:52
Speaker 1: the prudent thing to do. Even if a person gives
24:54
Speaker 1: you consent, they can withdraw the consent at anytime, so
24:58
Speaker 1: I'm not worried about that. But you're right. The maternal
25:01
Speaker 1: instinct is this most powerful instinct a mother has, and
25:04
Speaker 1: to protect their child and to want things done. A
25:08
Speaker 1: couple of things. When the paramas were working on her
25:11
Speaker 1: children in the basement, she stayed upstairs. A mother, if
25:14
Speaker 1: not restrained, it would not be right down there with
25:16
Speaker 1: their children. Straight up to Alexis Rushchuk, investigative reporter writer
25:20
Speaker 1: online dot Com, Alexis, the case takes a very bizarre
25:24
Speaker 1: turn with animal cruelty charges. I will let you make
25:29
Speaker 1: this announcement. So in the course of the investigation, after
25:32
Speaker 1: her children are found hanging in the basement, the police
25:36
Speaker 1: start searching the few cell phones they can find. They
25:39
Speaker 1: actually can't find all her cell phones, and then what
25:42
Speaker 1: they discover are photographs that she has taken of her
25:47
Speaker 1: sexually abusing the family dog, and she has sent these
25:51
Speaker 1: photographs to another person. So they contact this other person
25:55
Speaker 1: and they get these pictures. They are charging her with
25:58
Speaker 1: animal cruelty, which is sexual relations with an animal because
26:02
Speaker 1: of what she has done with the dog. Okay, a
26:05
Speaker 1: look to this. I'm not one in favor of dead air,
26:08
Speaker 1: but I just had to take that in for just
26:10
Speaker 1: a moment. Okay, doctor Maloney, as a renowned as you are,
26:16
Speaker 1: and Ashley will cut with your juris doctorate degree, Chloyd
26:20
Speaker 1: Steiger homicide detective. I think we all need to take
26:23
Speaker 1: a back seat for a moment. Bring in a shrink, doctor,
26:27
Speaker 1: Karen Stark, help me out, Karen, Doc sex, it exists, Nancy.
26:34
Speaker 1: It's a perversion. So it's not something that you're going
26:39
Speaker 1: to find all the time. It's not usual, but this
26:43
Speaker 1: is it. Well, I hope, Karen, I hope not. I mean,
26:46
Speaker 1: how can you even talk about it like that like
26:49
Speaker 1: you're reading, you know, the weather report, because there are
26:55
Speaker 1: people abusing the family dog. This is a mom, not
27:03
Speaker 1: your regular mom, Nancy. This is a disturb you can
27:06
Speaker 1: say that again, a very disturbed person. They would never
27:11
Speaker 1: have known if they hadn't looked at her. Now I
27:14
Speaker 1: know why she made him get a warrant for her
27:17
Speaker 1: cell phone. Yeah, I get it, as she willcought. And
27:20
Speaker 1: we wonder, we wonder why children have so many emotional problems.
27:27
Speaker 1: Mom is having sex with the family dog. Help me, Ashley,
27:33
Speaker 1: I can't help you. I don't get it. Okay, it's
27:35
Speaker 1: a perversion. But here's what I want to suggest is
27:38
Speaker 1: isn't it interesting, Nancy, how when you start with a
27:42
Speaker 1: mother's story that doesn't make good sense of, Oh, the
27:46
Speaker 1: eight year old hung himself and also his four year
27:48
Speaker 1: old sister, and you start digging deeper. Not only do
27:52
Speaker 1: you feel like there's something suspicious, you also start to
27:55
Speaker 1: find evidence of this type of behavior that the West's
28:00
Speaker 1: faith that is not normal, is not okay. Crime Stories
28:16
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace for Documents revealed that Lisa Snyder has
28:21
Speaker 1: been charged with murdering her eight year old son and
28:24
Speaker 1: four year old daughter, a disturbing case. To be sure,
28:26
Speaker 1: she was taken by police from the District Judge's office
28:29
Speaker 1: here in Hamburg to Burke's County Prison, where she will
28:32
Speaker 1: be held without bail. Now. As we first reported to
28:35
Speaker 1: get back in October, police found the children hanging from
28:38
Speaker 1: a plastic covered wire cable tied to a beam in
28:41
Speaker 1: the basement of the family home along Route one forty
28:44
Speaker 1: three near Kempton. Two chairs were knocked over nearby. Police
28:48
Speaker 1: had received a nine one call September twenty third. The
28:52
Speaker 1: children died three days later at the hospital. Search warrants
28:55
Speaker 1: indicated police seized laptop, cell phones, an Xbox console. They
28:59
Speaker 1: also wanted to examine the family dog, but Snyder had
29:02
Speaker 1: told them that she had given the dog away. Police
29:07
Speaker 1: say Snyder told them that her older son, Connor, had
29:11
Speaker 1: been bullied at school and indicated he wanted to take
29:14
Speaker 1: his own life, but another resident of the home contradicted
29:18
Speaker 1: that report, saying that the boys seemed fine getting off
29:21
Speaker 1: the bus from school. Police say they also found evidence
29:25
Speaker 1: that Snyder had searched online for ways to hang oneself.
29:29
Speaker 1: Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we
29:32
Speaker 1: practiced to deceive. I can't take credit for that, Shakespeare said.
29:36
Speaker 1: At first that was wal News eighth reporter Barbara Barr.
29:40
Speaker 1: So not only do we have heinous photos on her
29:44
Speaker 1: cell phone, according to police, of her engaging relations with
29:49
Speaker 1: the family dog, a fifty pound dog, but also searches
29:54
Speaker 1: for how to hang one's self, alexis terrestri joining me
29:59
Speaker 1: inst to get a reporter or radar online dot com?
30:02
Speaker 1: Alexis what is the very latest? She has been charged
30:07
Speaker 1: with first degree murder. She's been charged with tampering with evidence.
30:12
Speaker 1: She's been charged with harm with a child and it's
30:15
Speaker 1: technically unrelated to the murder of her two children. But
30:19
Speaker 1: she has been charged with animal cruelty, which was something that,
30:23
Speaker 1: as I said, the police discovered after she killed her children.
30:27
Speaker 1: She is in prison or she is in jail awaiting
30:31
Speaker 1: trial right now. This is in Pennsylvania. To Ashley Walcott,
30:38
Speaker 1: does Pennsylvania have the death penalty? It does, and they
30:41
Speaker 1: have not determined it's my understanding whether or not they
30:44
Speaker 1: will seek it, but certainly the charges are eligible, at
30:49
Speaker 1: least one of them for the death penalty. Well, whenever
30:52
Speaker 1: you have, in most jurisdictions that have the death penalty,
30:55
Speaker 1: more than one body, more than one dead body, it's
30:58
Speaker 1: mass murder. And we think of mass murder as many
31:04
Speaker 1: many people murdered, but mass murder is defined in many
31:09
Speaker 1: criminal codebooks as more than one body. Now Here, you've
31:13
Speaker 1: got that. You also have children young of a tender age,
31:19
Speaker 1: which in many jurisdictions qualifies as a condition to seek
31:23
Speaker 1: the death penalty, and extremely heinous circumstances also all three
31:30
Speaker 1: of those would qualify for a death penalty procedure. But
31:34
Speaker 1: also in many jurisdictions when the murderer is in conjunction
31:39
Speaker 1: with another felony, such as a gun felony or child abuse,
31:48
Speaker 1: that may also qualify for a death penalty trial. Right now,
31:54
Speaker 1: if she is convicted, mommy is looking at two life sentences.
32:00
Speaker 1: There is also life without the possibility of parole to Alexis,
32:05
Speaker 1: to rez Chuck or anybody on panel in Pennsylvania, is
32:11
Speaker 1: there a possibility of life without the possibility of parole. Yes,
32:15
Speaker 1: that is a possibility because she can they can work
32:19
Speaker 1: out a deal with her, or they can decide not
32:20
Speaker 1: to seek the death penalty. The death penalty is in
32:23
Speaker 1: some cases. I mean, this is two young children. To me,
32:25
Speaker 1: it seems like an easy case. You would give them
32:28
Speaker 1: on the death penalty, But a lot of people are
32:31
Speaker 1: maybe not willing to do that, and so they would
32:33
Speaker 1: do life without possibility of paroles so that they guarantee
32:36
Speaker 1: that she would knock it out. You know, she has
32:38
Speaker 1: another child, a seventeen year old. Then she is fairly young.
32:42
Speaker 1: She could have more children if she got out. They
32:44
Speaker 1: want to make sure that this never happens again. Well,
32:47
Speaker 1: she's got one thing to be happy about. The last
32:49
Speaker 1: prisoner executed by the electature in Pennsylvania was Elmo Smith.
32:53
Speaker 1: That was back in sixty two. They then passed a
32:56
Speaker 1: law changing the mode of execution to lethal injection the needle,
33:01
Speaker 1: which is the current means of execution. So at least
33:05
Speaker 1: she can just drift off to a pleasant sleep. But
33:10
Speaker 1: that's not what happened to her two children, eight year
33:13
Speaker 1: old Connor and four year old Brinley Snyder. I've learned
33:17
Speaker 1: a lot about the children since this happened. I know
33:22
Speaker 1: that Connor was very happy. He got along with all
33:26
Speaker 1: his classmates. He led video games. Brinley Louise was a
33:30
Speaker 1: preschool student with a brilliant smile, especially when standing next
33:36
Speaker 1: to her big brother. I know that very often Connor
33:41
Speaker 1: would get little rewards at school and he would always
33:45
Speaker 1: pick something that he could take home to his sister
33:50
Speaker 1: that he would giggle during reading workshop, poring over the books.
33:55
Speaker 1: In the third grade class there at Greenwich Lhartsville Elementary
34:00
Speaker 1: love science like my son, specifically rocks and minerals, and
34:05
Speaker 1: he would find rocks and bring them to show the teacher,
34:08
Speaker 1: and he loved the little sister loved. I was always
34:13
Speaker 1: trying to find things at school to bring home to her,
34:17
Speaker 1: and he laughed all the time. I know that he
34:21
Speaker 1: was funny and sweet, and I know a lot about
34:25
Speaker 1: the little girl. She adored, adored her big brother, and
34:30
Speaker 1: had a smile that lit up a room. She was
34:34
Speaker 1: in her second year at pre K at Early Learning
34:36
Speaker 1: Center in Cutstown. She specifically loved a pink teddy bear,
34:45
Speaker 1: and in many, many pictures she had the teddy bear
34:49
Speaker 1: with her. I can only imagine the sequence of events
34:54
Speaker 1: that led to their deaths. To doctor Kathery Maloney joining
34:58
Speaker 1: us from Erie County Medical Examiner and Nicole City Forensics
35:02
Speaker 1: dot Com, Doctor Catherine, what would a person go through
35:10
Speaker 1: upun hanging? What does a person experience as the oxygen
35:17
Speaker 1: leaves their body? Well, with a hanging, it would depending
35:21
Speaker 1: on how type literature was. In this case, it probably
35:24
Speaker 1: wouldn't be very tight because it was, you know, the
35:27
Speaker 1: wire covered in vinyl. So I would suspect that there
35:32
Speaker 1: would be a several perhaps at least a minute of
35:36
Speaker 1: consciousness where the person was experiencing pain before they lost consciousness,
35:42
Speaker 1: and then at that point they would be in a coma.
35:45
Speaker 1: I'm just wondering also, if she gave them drugs alexis
35:50
Speaker 1: Terres chuck in order to get them to cooperate, they
35:54
Speaker 1: were saying when they took them to the hospital, when
35:56
Speaker 1: they found them, they took them to the hospital, and
35:58
Speaker 1: they really couldn't tell exactly what the cause of death was.
36:02
Speaker 1: If you were being hanged against your will, even little children,
36:06
Speaker 1: you're going to clout your neck, you're gonna try to
36:09
Speaker 1: get away. But it didn't seem like there were any
36:11
Speaker 1: real marks of anything on these children. So that looks
36:14
Speaker 1: like that they're thinking that that's what the mom would
36:16
Speaker 1: have done. In answer to those toxicology questions, toxicology reports
36:21
Speaker 1: just announced, so the children did not have drugs in
36:25
Speaker 1: their systems. I do not know how they were cajoled
36:30
Speaker 1: into getting up on those chairs, but I have big
36:34
Speaker 1: questions as to whether an eight year old boy could
36:36
Speaker 1: throw a lead for a two hundred and fifty pound
36:40
Speaker 1: dog up over a railing and the ceiling of the
36:44
Speaker 1: basement and then arrange a double suicide. Very very difficult
36:50
Speaker 1: to believe, you know, to you, Cloyd Steiger, we know
36:54
Speaker 1: it was a metal lead covered in plastic. I wonder
36:57
Speaker 1: if her fingerprints, the Miles fingerprints, are on it. Well,
37:00
Speaker 1: it could be, although it's much more likely that her
37:03
Speaker 1: DNA will be on it. But of course the problem
37:05
Speaker 1: is she picked it up in a store, so there's
37:08
Speaker 1: a legitimate reason her think of princes and or DNA
37:10
Speaker 1: could be on that leash. So they definitely do much
37:14
Speaker 1: evidentially in that case. I mean that forensics are incredible.
37:18
Speaker 1: On the Google account, we find September seventeen a search
37:22
Speaker 1: by mommy carbon monoxide in a car? How long to die?
37:26
Speaker 1: September twenty almost got away with it? Best episodes September
37:30
Speaker 1: twenty two hanging Yourself. Facebook records indicate photos and conversations
37:37
Speaker 1: regarding sex, messages about the dog, sex acts on Mommy.
37:44
Speaker 1: We know also the children will remove from Snyder's care
37:47
Speaker 1: in two fourteen and return thanks d Facts at it
37:50
Speaker 1: again in two thousand and fifteen. D Facts Children's Services
37:55
Speaker 1: have been involved with the Snyder family all the way
37:58
Speaker 1: up through November two thousand. Fine, you know another issue
38:03
Speaker 1: is motive to doctor Karen Stark, psychologist joining us. You
38:07
Speaker 1: can find her at Karen Stark dot com. I'm just
38:11
Speaker 1: now learning that the mom told a friend that she
38:18
Speaker 1: had quote had enough, and according to court documents, she
38:22
Speaker 1: told her friend in early September she quote does not
38:25
Speaker 1: care anymore about her kids. Yeah, I read that, Nancy.
38:29
Speaker 1: She was very supposedly depressed and had had enough of
38:33
Speaker 1: her kids. And so instead of allowing somebody to come
38:39
Speaker 1: in and give a proper home to these kids, or
38:42
Speaker 1: get some help in figuring out what was going on there,
38:45
Speaker 1: huminating And that's one more indication that this is a
38:51
Speaker 1: very sick, disturbed, psychopathic woman. If this is not a
38:56
Speaker 1: case for the death penalty, I do not know what is.
39:00
Speaker 1: We wait as just as sun falls. Nancy Grace crime
39:03
Speaker 1: Story signing off goodbye friend,