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321: Your Kid’s Quality of Life Starts with You, with Nancy Gilette · Beautifully Complex

0:01
Speaker 1: The truth is learning happens every moment, every day for
0:04
Speaker 1: the rest of your life. If we think that learning
0:07
Speaker 1: only happens during school hours in one way of instruction,
0:11
Speaker 1: we're missing everything right and narrow, diverse brains demand a
0:17
Speaker 1: different way.
0:20
Speaker 2: Welcome to Beautifully Complex, where we unpack what it really
0:24
Speaker 2: means to parent neurodivergent kids with dignity and clarity. I'm
0:28
Speaker 2: Penny Williams, and I know firsthand how tough and transformative
0:32
Speaker 2: this journey can be. Let's dive in and discover how
0:36
Speaker 2: to raise regulated, resilient, beautifully complex kids together. Oh and
0:41
Speaker 2: if you want more support, join our free community at
0:44
Speaker 2: hub dot beautifully complex dot life. Welcome back everybody. I
0:54
Speaker 2: have here with me Nancy Jillette, who is an RDI consultant,
0:59
Speaker 2: and we're going to talk a little bit about how
1:03
Speaker 2: we can help with fostering the quality of life that
1:07
Speaker 2: we want for our nerdivergent kids and how to I think,
1:12
Speaker 2: adopt that growth mindset so that we are always learning
1:17
Speaker 2: and growing and reminding ourselves that mistakes are part of
1:22
Speaker 2: that journey as well, because that's so important too. But Nancy,
1:26
Speaker 2: I'm hoping you will start by letting everybody know who
1:30
Speaker 2: you are and what you do, and then we'll dive
1:32
Speaker 2: in sure.
1:34
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me today. I'm so excited to have
1:37
Speaker 1: this conversation. As you mentioned, I'm an RDI consultant and
1:41
Speaker 1: i live here in Canada, and I've been supporting families
1:45
Speaker 1: for over two decades with autistic children and other neurodiversities
1:51
Speaker 1: and really a plethora of different diagnoses that some of
1:56
Speaker 1: these children have as part of their story. And throughout
2:01
Speaker 1: the years, you know, we were focused on children's behavior
2:05
Speaker 1: for so long of what wasn't working, what the obstacles
2:09
Speaker 1: were for the child, and you know, I spent two
2:11
Speaker 1: decades of developing behavior plans to support these children to
2:17
Speaker 1: live have a better experience, but it was really based
2:21
Speaker 1: on tasks to be completed versus really understanding that we
2:26
Speaker 1: need to focus on quality of life and also understanding
2:29
Speaker 1: what does quality of life actually mean. And so that's
2:32
Speaker 1: such a huge conversation. But to summarize what I saw
2:36
Speaker 1: with parents is great to have behavior plans, great to
2:39
Speaker 1: have these plethoras of professionals involved. However, it can be
2:43
Speaker 1: really overwhelming for parents and families felt really unsupported because
2:49
Speaker 1: we were creating so many plans specifically for children, but
2:54
Speaker 1: really difficult to implement within the home environment because maybe
2:57
Speaker 1: some of the therapies or some of the plans were
3:01
Speaker 1: developed within a certain environment which didn't support the home
3:05
Speaker 1: environment or the community environment, right, And so this was
3:09
Speaker 1: then impacting quality of life for family, which of course
3:13
Speaker 1: would result in impacting the child. And so when I
3:17
Speaker 1: learned through the RDI process about understanding truly what quality
3:22
Speaker 1: of life means, that led me to a deeper path
3:25
Speaker 1: to actually understand learning. And you know, because when we
3:29
Speaker 1: created these behavior plans, we thought that if we were
3:32
Speaker 1: able to manage a behavior, the learning would happen. Well,
3:36
Speaker 1: the truth is behavior is communication, right, And so when
3:40
Speaker 1: we can understand communication and we support the individual with
3:44
Speaker 1: actually the support that is helpful, then we can create
3:48
Speaker 1: learning opportunities that support the big picture, which is quality
3:53
Speaker 1: of life. Right. And then families then understand that process
3:57
Speaker 1: and able to implement it within the home vironment, which
4:01
Speaker 1: then helps the family feel more regulated and supported, which
4:05
Speaker 1: results in the child demonstrating being regulated and supported, and
4:09
Speaker 1: then behavior would decrease. Right. So it's about understanding from
4:12
Speaker 1: almost like top down, and you know, in a sense
4:16
Speaker 1: of knowing that we have to think of the big
4:19
Speaker 1: picture first, right of what is this child wanting? What
4:24
Speaker 1: is the behavior telling us, and how can we actually
4:27
Speaker 1: support the learning to support what the child wants, not
4:30
Speaker 1: just what the behavior goals are.
4:33
Speaker 2: Can you talk to us a little bit more about
4:35
Speaker 2: what quality of life is like? What are the components
4:39
Speaker 2: that we might be focusing on if we're focusing on
4:41
Speaker 2: quality of life?
4:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, for me, it's almost crazy simple. Every time I've
4:49
Speaker 1: worked with families and children, all they want is to
4:53
Speaker 1: do well yeah, and feel good right. And so when
4:58
Speaker 1: we know that really that's the basis of everything, is
5:01
Speaker 1: to feel good and to want to do well, right,
5:04
Speaker 1: then that can be completed. But it looks different for everybody.
5:08
Speaker 1: But if we can start from oh, you mean a child,
5:11
Speaker 1: an autistic child wants calm. Of course they want calm.
5:16
Speaker 1: Being in a heightened state does not feel good in
5:19
Speaker 1: the body I have. You know, out of twenty years
5:21
Speaker 1: working with hundreds of children, dealing with lots of you know,
5:25
Speaker 1: intense behavior, it has not come from a place of
5:28
Speaker 1: the individual desire to have a challenging moment. It's exhausting
5:34
Speaker 1: and it's exhausting for the individual. It's exhausting for the parent,
5:38
Speaker 1: and so it doesn't work. So when we want to
5:41
Speaker 1: look at quality of life, it's about how are we
5:44
Speaker 1: supporting someone to feel good? Right? And so when we
5:48
Speaker 1: look at that from a child's perspective, we're looking at play. Right.
5:52
Speaker 1: Kids want to play, that's it. Right. When we look
5:55
Speaker 1: at adolescence, we're looking at connection right to feel good.
6:00
Speaker 1: When we're looking at adulthood, we want to have self
6:03
Speaker 1: advocacy skills. We want independence to support us feeling good.
6:07
Speaker 1: So quality of life can look different for everybody, but
6:11
Speaker 1: it's coming from the same place of just feeling good
6:15
Speaker 1: and wanting to do well. Right. And so to me again,
6:19
Speaker 1: that's the quality of life. That's how I live my
6:22
Speaker 1: life is what do I do to support how I
6:24
Speaker 1: want to feel and how I want my future to
6:28
Speaker 1: be in a positive way that supports me and my family. Right.
6:32
Speaker 1: So it takes out the noise of thinking that we
6:35
Speaker 1: need to have a job, we need to have this,
6:37
Speaker 1: we need to have money, blah blah blah, right, because
6:39
Speaker 1: that list never ends. But when we start first of oh,
6:42
Speaker 1: what feels good, then that's what support. Neurodiversity is not
6:47
Speaker 1: looking at a task of accomplishment. It's about a process
6:51
Speaker 1: of feeling better in my body. It's an experience, and
6:54
Speaker 1: so when we come from that perspective, then that shifts
6:57
Speaker 1: how we respond.
7:00
Speaker 2: Creating environments that feel good for neurodivergent individuals.
7:04
Speaker 1: Right by using personal supports that support the brain to learn.
7:10
Speaker 1: So you know, it's about being proactive versus reactive. So
7:14
Speaker 1: lots of times when I'm engaged with families, we're often
7:17
Speaker 1: responding to the crisis point right when the behavior is happening.
7:21
Speaker 1: When you know people are being challenged with some of
7:25
Speaker 1: the behavior. My approach is, hey, we can do stuff before, right.
7:30
Speaker 1: So if a child is bolting, for example, right and
7:33
Speaker 1: you loping out of environments, my first question is whoa
7:37
Speaker 1: what is his behavior telling me?
7:39
Speaker 2: Right?
7:40
Speaker 1: What do I need to learn? Maybe the tasks that
7:44
Speaker 1: we're asking the child to do is beyond his capacity
7:48
Speaker 1: in that moment, and his flight or flight response is
7:51
Speaker 1: so heightened and all he knows is to bolt, right,
7:54
Speaker 1: So then when we do that, oh, then we do
7:56
Speaker 1: a different plan, right, And it's really being intentional with
8:02
Speaker 1: the strategies that we utilize. So you can see my
8:05
Speaker 1: little visual behind me, and it says, don't be busy,
8:08
Speaker 1: be intentional life is so busy, we get it, there's
8:11
Speaker 1: always a million things to do. But when we can
8:14
Speaker 1: slow down to be not what do I need to do?
8:17
Speaker 1: By how do I want experience? Then you start implementing
8:20
Speaker 1: intentional strategies. So if you want your child, for example,
8:24
Speaker 1: to participate in math, right, well, oh we need to
8:28
Speaker 1: think how can this be engaging for the child? Right?
8:33
Speaker 1: Doing tablework is not going to maybe support that child's
8:36
Speaker 1: learning process. Ah, but if I did baking, there's so
8:41
Speaker 1: much learning math concepts that you can learn in it.
8:43
Speaker 1: But it becomes meaningful and it's intentional because you're supporting
8:47
Speaker 1: the math concepts for the child to be successful while
8:51
Speaker 1: doing math. Right. So you can see how it really
8:55
Speaker 1: is shifting of what do we want experience? Right?
9:00
Speaker 2: Yeah? What do we want it to feel like for
9:02
Speaker 2: the child?
9:03
Speaker 1: Absolutely? Because when we do that, then that's what supports learning. Right.
9:07
Speaker 1: We used to think learning is from this teaching of
9:09
Speaker 1: me explaining to you, which all us parents do, right, Yeah,
9:13
Speaker 1: But the truth is doesn't help, right, it's just falling
9:18
Speaker 1: on deaf ears. Why do I know that? Because the
9:20
Speaker 1: obstacles still happens if I'm using different strategies to support
9:25
Speaker 1: my child's learning. Then I see growth, and I see consistency,
9:30
Speaker 1: and I see utilizing effective communication to get needs met
9:35
Speaker 1: rather than behavior challenges. Right.
9:39
Speaker 2: And we know that our nervous system has to feel
9:45
Speaker 2: safe in the environment, right, because otherwise we're dysregulated, and
9:50
Speaker 2: then those instinctual behaviors like you were talking about, for example,
9:54
Speaker 2: bolting happen, right, So that experience, I think we also
9:58
Speaker 2: have to think about how can we help the child
10:01
Speaker 2: to feel safe. And if they're engaged, then they are
10:04
Speaker 2: feeling safe, right, If they're enjoying what they're doing, they
10:08
Speaker 2: are feeling safe. And it sounds weird to say, if
10:11
Speaker 2: you want this kid to do math, you have to
10:13
Speaker 2: focus on if they feel safe, because I think we
10:16
Speaker 2: have a narrow idea of what that safety means absolutely,
10:19
Speaker 2: but really it's safety not just physically, but emotionally, psychologically, socially,
10:25
Speaker 2: like all of these elements, right. And sometimes that looks different,
10:28
Speaker 2: that's engagement or movement or you know, so many different
10:31
Speaker 2: things depending on that individual. But I always think about
10:35
Speaker 2: the fact that if you're seeing that challenging behavior, the
10:39
Speaker 2: first umbrella meaning right, because we're looking at as a
10:42
Speaker 2: signal and it's communicating, and that like overarching idea that
10:47
Speaker 2: it's communicating is that kid doesn't feel safe in some way,
10:51
Speaker 2: and so it's not doable.
10:53
Speaker 1: Well, and you know, I've had this conversation with many
10:56
Speaker 1: school teams throughout the years and also parents, right, because
10:58
Speaker 1: you're right, safety comes with thinking that's only physical safety.
11:02
Speaker 1: And so what I shift my language to disregulated because
11:07
Speaker 1: the child is this regulated, meaning the brain is not
11:11
Speaker 1: able to take any information in. Right, And so when
11:14
Speaker 1: the brain is just regulated, like we think of ourselves, right,
11:18
Speaker 1: for some reason, we think children have different abilities than
11:21
Speaker 1: us as adults. And when you think about it, right,
11:24
Speaker 1: So if I have a disregulated moment and their own
11:27
Speaker 1: moments right of you know, everything's not working. Maybe I'm overstimulated,
11:33
Speaker 1: whatever the dynamic is. If I'm feeling very heightened and
11:38
Speaker 1: then my partner comes in and tells me just calm down,
11:43
Speaker 1: just be quiet, Well, my brain is so overloaded that
11:48
Speaker 1: I can't take any information in. So if that's when
11:51
Speaker 1: you think you're having teaching moments, no, that's when the
11:54
Speaker 1: behavior increases because it's too much. When we can support
11:59
Speaker 1: a child's brain to be regulated, yes, that is environment. However,
12:04
Speaker 1: all we actually really need to do is environment mental
12:06
Speaker 1: modifications with personal support. For example, right, having using headphones
12:12
Speaker 1: to reduce the auditory stimuli, maybe going into a space
12:16
Speaker 1: where there's cammon colors, whatever. It's actually not that complex
12:21
Speaker 1: when we break it down, but it's allowing the opportunity
12:24
Speaker 1: and the understanding. Oh, if I see a child disregulated,
12:29
Speaker 1: my first step is not going to, oh, let's continue
12:32
Speaker 1: encouraging the learning. It's whoa The learning is to regulate first? Right,
12:37
Speaker 1: how does the autism brain. What we've learned through an
12:39
Speaker 1: RDI perspective is emotional regulation is one is obstacles. Right,
12:44
Speaker 1: So I have kiddos that, maybe from an adult perspective,
12:48
Speaker 1: have small problems, but then the child has big reactions
12:52
Speaker 1: or I often see the opposite, right, big reaction for
12:56
Speaker 1: what us as adults would consider small problems. Right, So
13:00
Speaker 1: when we see that spectrum that shows the experience of
13:04
Speaker 1: emotional regulation is a difficult thing to navigate. How do
13:08
Speaker 1: we know when a small thing requires a big emotion? Right?
13:12
Speaker 1: When we break down the mental processes that our brain
13:15
Speaker 1: has to do, it's actually quite crazy, right, lot so much?
13:20
Speaker 2: All Right, we take it for granted.
13:22
Speaker 1: And that's what we forget, right, is that this growth
13:25
Speaker 1: seeking mindset that is consistent for all neurodiverse brains is
13:31
Speaker 1: essential for us to live in the world by being
13:34
Speaker 1: able to understand our emotional regulation right is one of
13:38
Speaker 1: the aspects. There's five different areas that we look at
13:42
Speaker 1: through an RDI perspective to support learning right. And so
13:46
Speaker 1: when we understand emotional regulation that the goal is not
13:49
Speaker 1: to give information as the learning modality. It's about how
13:54
Speaker 1: do we support regulation is the learning because when a
13:58
Speaker 1: child is regulated, learning is abundant, right, But it's about
14:02
Speaker 1: understanding that we need to do things differently.
14:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes I call it availability to learn, like we
14:10
Speaker 2: need physiological biological availability to learn. And it's not really
14:17
Speaker 2: a concept that we've talked about in education for all
14:21
Speaker 2: these years, and finally we're starting to we're starting to
14:24
Speaker 2: understand that kids get us regulated and what that looks
14:27
Speaker 2: like in the classroom, what we can do to help.
14:29
Speaker 2: You know, the goal used to be butts and seats,
14:32
Speaker 2: Like your kid has to be at school, they have
14:34
Speaker 2: to be sitting there, they have to look like they're
14:36
Speaker 2: paying attention.
14:37
Speaker 1: Right.
14:38
Speaker 2: If they're just regulated, they're not learning anything, which is
14:41
Speaker 2: what you're talking about. They're not learning anything they can't no.
14:45
Speaker 1: And so this is really a shift in what is education, right,
14:50
Speaker 1: And so for me, education is learning. Education is about
14:55
Speaker 1: knowing to do better, to improve whatever experience we want
15:00
Speaker 1: to have. The truth is learning happens every moment, every
15:04
Speaker 1: day for the rest of your life. Yeah. If we
15:06
Speaker 1: think that learning only happens during school hours in one
15:10
Speaker 1: way of instruction, we're missing everything, right, and narrow, diverse
15:15
Speaker 1: brains demand a different way. Right. I was reading something
15:19
Speaker 1: somewhere and it's talking about the narrodiversity. How it's really
15:22
Speaker 1: shifting a lot of this world because we have to
15:25
Speaker 1: parents know that they're struggling, and parents want children to
15:29
Speaker 1: do well, they're just not sure of how to do it.
15:31
Speaker 1: So we have to start thinking about it differently. What
15:36
Speaker 1: is the intention of our education? Right? And so for me,
15:41
Speaker 1: it's about supporting the learning process, and I remind parents
15:44
Speaker 1: that's what it is for all kidops. We just have
15:47
Speaker 1: to do it in a different way.
15:49
Speaker 2: And so really we're looking at like experience first, right,
15:52
Speaker 2: instead of what do I need to teach them? How
15:55
Speaker 2: do they need to show me how they learned it?
15:57
Speaker 2: We need to think about preparing the experience in the environment.
16:02
Speaker 2: So that they can feel safe and have the opportunity
16:05
Speaker 2: to learn, to be available to learn.
16:07
Speaker 1: Absolutely, if we want to develop a growth seeking mindset,
16:11
Speaker 1: which is really a lifelong skill, how do we respond
16:13
Speaker 1: to this ever changing world in a way that's regulated.
16:17
Speaker 1: We have to focus on experience based learning, and the
16:20
Speaker 1: neurodiverse brain again thrives on that. And so when we
16:24
Speaker 1: can put learning in a meaningful way, right, that supports
16:28
Speaker 1: the person's interests, that supports their own regulation that they have,
16:32
Speaker 1: whoever the teacher is. And also if using effective strategies
16:38
Speaker 1: a child world can change from explosive, stressed then never
16:44
Speaker 1: enough endless medical appointments. Right, all these intensity outcomes to
16:50
Speaker 1: a place of thriving parents feeling confident, understanding what personal
16:55
Speaker 1: supports make this child thrive and actually create a world
17:00
Speaker 1: that is so good. Rather like I've worked with a
17:04
Speaker 1: family and every time I talk to her, she talks
17:07
Speaker 1: about the growth her son has done, and from a
17:11
Speaker 1: parent perspective, that's everything that we want for our children. Right.
17:17
Speaker 1: And also a piece that I also do too is
17:20
Speaker 1: you know, understanding the value of parents because we are
17:24
Speaker 1: there from morning, noon and night, from the moment they
17:28
Speaker 1: entered this world to the time they leave this world.
17:31
Speaker 1: Us parents are essential and we have to start really
17:35
Speaker 1: honoring our role and knowing that when we can communicate
17:39
Speaker 1: in a way that supports the brain to learn, not
17:42
Speaker 1: only will you see a shift for your child, you
17:45
Speaker 1: will see a shift within your environment and your relationships.
17:48
Speaker 1: And it's just like this beautiful ripple effect.
18:04
Speaker 2: Can you talk about the role of connection, because I
18:06
Speaker 2: know that inn RDI connection is super important, but also
18:11
Speaker 2: just in regulation for any human, connection is key. How
18:16
Speaker 2: do we want foster connection with our kids? And then
18:20
Speaker 2: how do we sort of harness that to help us
18:24
Speaker 2: to foster regulation to help kids be available to learn
18:28
Speaker 2: all of these things? Right, I think a lot of
18:30
Speaker 2: it starts with connection. So can you can you tell
18:33
Speaker 2: us how to navigate that a little bit?
18:35
Speaker 1: Sure? So again, like you know, working with families for
18:39
Speaker 1: upteenth the amount of years I've been giving information of
18:43
Speaker 1: what they need to do? How do you implement behavior
18:46
Speaker 1: strategies all those things? And so I did that with
18:49
Speaker 1: my career, but then I became a parent, and then
18:53
Speaker 1: I realized the complexity of exhaustion. Right the adult fans
19:01
Speaker 1: our own regulation, interrupted sleep. You know, the list goes
19:06
Speaker 1: on for a parent and then when we have a
19:08
Speaker 1: child who thinks differently, who needs different support, this is
19:13
Speaker 1: when I understood the value of relationship, knowing we as
19:17
Speaker 1: parents have to really slow down of supporting how we
19:22
Speaker 1: want our children to influence how our children can succeed. Right, So,
19:26
Speaker 1: when we first start recognizing connection is everything, it's because
19:31
Speaker 1: we as parents know we have that feeling something's missing.
19:35
Speaker 1: And so when we start noticing that feeling, I want
19:38
Speaker 1: people to trust that. You know, we are often again,
19:41
Speaker 1: when we're raising children with different diagnoses, we have involvement
19:47
Speaker 1: with professionals, and everybody has an opinion about everything and
19:51
Speaker 1: what we should do and how we should do it,
19:52
Speaker 1: and go talk to this person and go read this. Right,
19:55
Speaker 1: it's an abundance of overwhelming information. So a lot of
19:58
Speaker 1: parents forget about the initial feeling of parent and child connection.
20:04
Speaker 1: And that is everything because we feel it. In my opinion,
20:07
Speaker 1: you know, it's knowing that's what your children feel. We
20:11
Speaker 1: know about the autistic children and neurodiversities, they're heightened, they
20:15
Speaker 1: experience the world differently, so that feeling is essential. We
20:18
Speaker 1: need to be a match, right, And so when I'm
20:21
Speaker 1: talking to parents about this, it's about understanding all those
20:25
Speaker 1: little inklings that you've had throughout the years. Those are
20:29
Speaker 1: the connections, Those are the sparks that matter, and we
20:32
Speaker 1: have to start bringing those back to support your child.
20:35
Speaker 1: Then they're ask, okay, great, how do you do it?
20:38
Speaker 1: And I just give them really simple strategies. One is
20:41
Speaker 1: visual referencing. Right. Lots of autistic brains, like I've said,
20:46
Speaker 1: they're overwhelmed by the busyness of the environment, so it's
20:50
Speaker 1: really difficult to get their attention right, and so parents
20:53
Speaker 1: work really hard to get their attention. And what I'm
20:58
Speaker 1: encouraging is we need to slow it down, break it up.
21:01
Speaker 1: All you need to do is say, if you're offering
21:05
Speaker 1: your child to drink, all you need to do is
21:09
Speaker 1: put it out, offer it, pause, and wait your child
21:13
Speaker 1: to reference you. And that does not mean eye contact, right,
21:16
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. Just noticing, hey, we're sharing space. And then
21:20
Speaker 1: when you do that, I would say ninety nine percent
21:23
Speaker 1: of the time parents know when their children look at them,
21:26
Speaker 1: when they actually see it, it's a feeling. And so
21:29
Speaker 1: when you feel that feeling, no, that's connection, right. We
21:33
Speaker 1: forget that. A lot of people think connection means we
21:36
Speaker 1: have to do something elaborate that we have to plan
21:39
Speaker 1: this sensory experience or this outing. And what I want
21:44
Speaker 1: to say is no, it's subtle shifts that reconnect to
21:49
Speaker 1: people and having shared experience. So when your shot child
21:52
Speaker 1: is referencing you, you've just quieted the noise for them,
21:56
Speaker 1: right of just oh, you're here with me, and it's
22:00
Speaker 1: on an expectation. It's not a demand, it's just hey,
22:03
Speaker 1: here it is. And then once your child references you
22:06
Speaker 1: give the water. That's it, right, So again it's about
22:11
Speaker 1: knowing the simple things matter most. So then parents are like, okay,
22:15
Speaker 1: so I felt that I noticed that slowing down, he's
22:18
Speaker 1: referencing beautiful. Then when you start developing the skill cull
22:22
Speaker 1: of coregulation, and coregulation is actually engagement shared fifty to fifty,
22:29
Speaker 1: you know, so that when we're involved with a person,
22:32
Speaker 1: we're having a very meaningful role. Right. So for example,
22:38
Speaker 1: when I go into a Starbucks right and order a coffee,
22:42
Speaker 1: my role is the customer. Their role is the barista,
22:46
Speaker 1: and they make the coffee for me. Right, So we're
22:49
Speaker 1: fifty to fifty within our role. Right, How do I
22:52
Speaker 1: know it's authentic if the barista wasn't present? Then I
22:56
Speaker 1: would be ordering coffee to nobody. Rightagement isn't authentic. If
23:02
Speaker 1: I wasn't there with the barista sho's order, would she take? Right?
23:06
Speaker 1: So that's how you know it's authentic because if the
23:08
Speaker 1: person wasn't there, the engagement wouldn't happen. What parents tend
23:12
Speaker 1: to do is we do ninety percent of the engagement
23:16
Speaker 1: and ten percent for the child.
23:18
Speaker 2: Right, and so again fill in the space.
23:21
Speaker 1: Right, So we have to slow it down and bring
23:24
Speaker 1: it back. So we go to what can the child
23:29
Speaker 1: competently take a fifty percent? And what can the adult
23:33
Speaker 1: take a fifty percent? And so then we're actually doing
23:37
Speaker 1: meaningful engagement right. And it's so simple and subtle. Right,
23:42
Speaker 1: But we have to do as parents say we need
23:44
Speaker 1: some support or what parents really appreciate is the raw
23:48
Speaker 1: reminder to slow down support connection neuro diverse kids. It's
23:56
Speaker 1: not always about getting the best or needing this. You know,
24:00
Speaker 1: of course we want that, but it's about understanding what
24:03
Speaker 1: true connection and authentic engagement is. So you know, when
24:08
Speaker 1: I support parents to do that, it seems manageable, and
24:11
Speaker 1: then they start seeing change because they're getting back that
24:14
Speaker 1: feeling because it is a feeling, it's not a task
24:17
Speaker 1: to accomplish. Right. Parenthood is an experience that only when
24:21
Speaker 1: you talk to other parents you get it right. Yeah,
24:24
Speaker 1: it's not something that like, I worked with kids for
24:28
Speaker 1: eighteen years before I had my children, Right, you would
24:31
Speaker 1: think I would have a pretty strong background in understanding right,
24:34
Speaker 1: but when then when I had my children, it took
24:36
Speaker 1: a whole other meaning because it's an experience. And so
24:39
Speaker 1: when I can remind parents of what connection really matters,
24:44
Speaker 1: and we can do it in these small, little increment shifts,
24:47
Speaker 1: parents feel the connection differently, the children start to experience differently,
24:52
Speaker 1: and we start doing effective guiding and teaching through intentional strategies.
24:58
Speaker 2: Yeah. I took two big things away from what you're saying.
25:01
Speaker 2: One was that we don't need to be speaking in
25:07
Speaker 2: order to have connection. That it's about the engagement, but
25:13
Speaker 2: that doesn't require a conversation. And also that relationship equals influence.
25:20
Speaker 2: When we show up and we connect, we have more
25:25
Speaker 2: influence with our kids. Right, We're able to guide them better,
25:28
Speaker 2: We're able to have them come to us more like
25:32
Speaker 2: an adolescence. This becomes bigger. Right. If we're creating that
25:36
Speaker 2: relationship before that, then we have kids who are comfortable
25:42
Speaker 2: in connecting and want to talk to us or want
25:46
Speaker 2: to share experiences or emotions or whatever it is. If
25:49
Speaker 2: you set up enough of a pattern of coregulation, too,
25:52
Speaker 2: I think you'll find that your kids come to you
25:53
Speaker 2: seeking that coregulation.
25:56
Speaker 1: Well, and again, you know it's about meaningful engagement, right.
26:00
Speaker 1: And when I think about influence, absolutely, we have this
26:04
Speaker 1: thought that we can control people. But of course you
26:07
Speaker 1: know there's no We can't control anything in this world.
26:10
Speaker 1: It's not accurate, right, and especially neurodiverse kids. We tried, tried,
26:15
Speaker 1: you know, through ABA often we were focused on compliance, right,
26:20
Speaker 1: and what we know to be true. We can't control anyone,
26:24
Speaker 1: but we can support influence, right. And again, influence that
26:28
Speaker 1: is positive, right, It's not influence for a negative outcome
26:31
Speaker 1: because neurodiversity doesn't want negative outcomes. They just want to
26:35
Speaker 1: feel good. Well, stop, we all do right exactly. So
26:39
Speaker 1: when we can create influence, well, how do we influence
26:43
Speaker 1: our children? Oh? Right? By being authentic engagement to being regulated.
26:49
Speaker 1: So I also support parents of understanding our own regulation
26:53
Speaker 1: patterns because we have to model the strategies. Again, neurodiverse
26:58
Speaker 1: learns from modeling experience oriience based. It's not let me
27:02
Speaker 1: tell you what to do and you just have to
27:04
Speaker 1: do it. No, that's not teaching, that's retaining information, right,
27:10
Speaker 1: True knowledge is being able to take the information and
27:12
Speaker 1: implement it within the environment that it suits a lot
27:16
Speaker 1: of our kiddos. Right, twenty years ago we were talking
27:19
Speaker 1: about autism. Kids can't generalize. No, we didn't teach the process.
27:24
Speaker 1: We were just teaching the request or the demand within
27:28
Speaker 1: that environment. Right.
27:30
Speaker 2: Compliance, Yeah, it was all compliance.
27:32
Speaker 1: Based, exactly right.
27:33
Speaker 2: I'm so glad we're moving away from that. Yes, right,
27:37
Speaker 2: we shouldn't be thinking about compliance at all. There's so
27:40
Speaker 2: many other ways to influence learning and growing and childhood
27:47
Speaker 2: and all of these things and our own parenting experience
27:50
Speaker 2: without just seeking compliance for compliance sake.
27:54
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, and again, what is the big picture? Right?
27:57
Speaker 1: The reason why we want compliance is because it's easier
27:59
Speaker 1: for us parents to manage. Let's be real, that's the
28:02
Speaker 1: only reason why. Right, in a class, we want compliance
28:06
Speaker 1: because it's difficult to teach a classroom of twenty five
28:09
Speaker 1: students one hundred percent. But now we're in exactly and
28:14
Speaker 1: I get it, because that's what we need within a
28:17
Speaker 1: group of people However, we're in a different place now
28:20
Speaker 1: in the world and society is compliance does not work.
28:25
Speaker 1: Why because it does not support really what the human wants,
28:29
Speaker 1: which is to feel good, to have curiosity, to explore
28:33
Speaker 1: preferred interests, right, all those things. So when we're not
28:37
Speaker 1: meeting that need for kiddos, what are we going to
28:39
Speaker 1: see more challenging behavior? Right, So it's about understanding, Ah,
28:44
Speaker 1: how does learning actually happen? It's an experience, right, we
28:48
Speaker 1: have to get away from thinking is this hierarchical process
28:51
Speaker 1: of listen to me, I have words of wisdom, bah
28:54
Speaker 1: bah bah, and follow what I say. Yeah, you know,
28:58
Speaker 1: parenting neuro diverse. They will be the first one to
29:01
Speaker 1: tell you.
29:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, we're going to do it differently. And that's okay,
29:06
Speaker 2: and it's even good.
29:07
Speaker 1: Right when we think about the world differently, possibilities are endless, right,
29:13
Speaker 1: and so people can thrive. Right, And we have this
29:17
Speaker 1: world right now that's really not well. We have anxiety
29:21
Speaker 1: through the roof. We have depression rates, highest suicide rates, right,
29:26
Speaker 1: people just in fear. Well, we're operating from that place.
29:31
Speaker 1: We're only responding in crisis, and we're not able to
29:34
Speaker 1: take a step back to do something different because you
29:37
Speaker 1: can and you will, but you have to first.
29:39
Speaker 2: We all don't feel safe. It comes back to that
29:43
Speaker 2: we're all just regulated and we don't feel safe. We're
29:47
Speaker 2: feeling I think, more of a lack of control over
29:50
Speaker 2: ourselves and what happens to us than ever. And again
29:53
Speaker 2: it comes back to connection, engagement, experience, trying to be
30:00
Speaker 2: part of the world instead of being so dysregulated that
30:04
Speaker 2: you can engage well.
30:06
Speaker 1: And again to who the person is right, This is
30:10
Speaker 1: not you know, thinking that everybody has to have a
30:13
Speaker 1: full time job for a quality of life. No, people
30:16
Speaker 1: have to make an income. But it can look differently
30:19
Speaker 1: for everybody. Right that income, their currency could be time. Right,
30:25
Speaker 1: so maybe they have time to house sit at somebody
30:28
Speaker 1: else's home for a while, or be a landskeeper or whatever. Right,
30:33
Speaker 1: it can look so many different ways. But we've been
30:36
Speaker 1: taught that we think that there's only a way to
30:39
Speaker 1: have a quality of of life by someone paying us
30:43
Speaker 1: money in a certain way. And the truth is no,
30:45
Speaker 1: because quality of life is how can we live in
30:48
Speaker 1: a way that works for us. I know loads of
30:51
Speaker 1: wonderful adults who are happy and they live with their
30:55
Speaker 1: a family member. Great, that's not wrong right, It's about
30:59
Speaker 1: what works, you know, and also knowing if family can
31:04
Speaker 1: support then that's amazing because that puts less demands on
31:09
Speaker 1: a system that doesn't work. Right, And so we again
31:13
Speaker 1: think big.
31:14
Speaker 2: Think big. It's been such an inspirational conversation. Will you
31:18
Speaker 2: tell everybody where they can find you online to connect
31:21
Speaker 2: with you and learn more from you?
31:24
Speaker 1: Sure? So, first of all, if people are interested in
31:28
Speaker 1: wanting to hear more of what I have to say
31:30
Speaker 1: or what my perspective is, if you can find me
31:33
Speaker 1: on Facebook. Autism a different perspective, and that's where I
31:37
Speaker 1: share everything I've learned through twenty five years implementing autistic
31:42
Speaker 1: strategies in a way that supports quality of life. And
31:46
Speaker 1: also I am offering a twelve week course called the
31:48
Speaker 1: Autism Shift for Parents, and that's where I'm going to
31:52
Speaker 1: give direct guidance to parents of how can we implement
31:55
Speaker 1: some of these subtle but most effective strategies within a
31:59
Speaker 1: home environment for their child to thrive. And so you
32:02
Speaker 1: can check that out at ww dot Nancygellette dot com
32:07
Speaker 1: and that's where more information will be and if there's
32:11
Speaker 1: any other specific questions, please email me contact me. I
32:16
Speaker 1: do things very differently, but I've seen the progress. I've
32:19
Speaker 1: seen families thrive. I've seen children completely shift and succeed
32:24
Speaker 1: in their world, no matter where they are in the world,
32:27
Speaker 1: no matter what their abilities are in the moment, but
32:30
Speaker 1: knowing that growth is possible for anyone.
32:33
Speaker 2: And I'll think everything I've in the show notes too,
32:35
Speaker 2: so everybody can connect with you easily, and you can
32:38
Speaker 2: find those show notes at Parenting ADHD and autism dot
32:41
Speaker 2: com slash three two one for episode three hundred and
32:46
Speaker 2: twenty one. It's been a pleasure, Nancy, so inspirational. These
32:50
Speaker 2: shifts are so so monumentally important, and I'm glad that
32:54
Speaker 2: you are reinforcing these ideas to accept differences and really
32:59
Speaker 2: focus on experience and what success looks like for our kids.
33:04
Speaker 2: And I appreciate it so much.
33:06
Speaker 1: Thank you.
33:07
Speaker 2: I will see everybody on the next episode. Take good care.
33:12
Speaker 2: I see you. You're doing hard and meaningful work and
33:16
Speaker 2: you don't have to do it alone. If you found
33:18
Speaker 2: this episode helpful, share it with someone who needs it
33:21
Speaker 2: and leave a quick review so others can find this
33:24
Speaker 2: support too. When you're ready for next steps, the Regulated
33:28
Speaker 2: Kids Project is here with the tools, coaching and community
33:32
Speaker 2: to help you raise a more regulated, resilient child. Get
33:37
Speaker 2: more info at regulated kids dot com.