Latest / Next Act with Jeff Ornstein / Paul Sinacore – Casting Director, Producer & Director, Paul Sinacore Casting

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Paul Sinacore – Casting Director, Producer & Director, Paul Sinacore Casting · Next Act with Jeff Ornstein

• 0:02
  Jeff Ornstein: Hi everyone and welcome to Next Act with Jeff Orenstein.
• 0:05
  Jeff Ornstein: I am Jeff, and on this show we celebrate people on the cusp of greatness.
• 0:09
  Jeff Ornstein: Those building on past successes in some of the curious and inventive and sometimes unexpected ways they have achieved those and stepping into moments that could define their legacy.
• 0:20
  Jeff Ornstein: We'll talk about current projects, lessons learned, and the extraordinary opportunities ahead.
• 0:26
  Jeff Ornstein: So the best is yet to come.
• 0:28
  Jeff Ornstein: Today's guest is Paul Sinicor, award-winning CSA and Television Academy casting director, producer, and director with nearly 30 years in the entertainment industry.
• 0:38
  Jeff Ornstein: From casting Sony and Columbia Pictures, Clicker, and the Netflix reboot of Unsolved Mysteries, to building his own boutique company, Paul is stepping into his next act as a true hyphenate, shaping stories not just through casting, but through directing, writing, and producing.
• 0:54
  Paul Sinacore: Welcome to the show.
• 0:55
  Paul Sinacore: Jeff, thanks for having me.
• 0:57
  Paul Sinacore: It's a pleasure to be here.
• 0:58
  Paul Sinacore: And wow, what a mouthful there.
• 1:00
  Paul Sinacore: I didn't know I did that much.
• 1:03
  Jeff Ornstein: No, it's impressive.
• 1:04
  Jeff Ornstein: And you're just the kind of guest that we're we're looking to have on here that has had a variety of experiences that have enriched them as a professional and also got them thinking about other avenues that they might pursue because of those experiences.
• 1:18
  Jeff Ornstein: And your experience, I think, as a casting director, I think will be particular interest to the performers that are listening, especially because some of the impetus that we want to instill in people is it's never too late.
• 1:32
  Jeff Ornstein: That's right.
• 1:33
  Jeff Ornstein: You can always pursue this.
• 1:34
  Jeff Ornstein: And some people say, It's too late.
• 1:35
  Jeff Ornstein: Can I do this?
• 1:37
  Jeff Ornstein: And it's all about the support you have, the confidence you have, and like what's on the other side.
• 1:42
  Jeff Ornstein: Well, what's on the other side?
• 1:43
  Jeff Ornstein: It's just another another human being.
• 1:44
  Jeff Ornstein: So it's interesting for people to hear, like for the performers, you're on the other side.
• 1:49
  Jeff Ornstein: So what's it all about, Alfie?
• 1:51
  Jeff Ornstein: Like, you know, where is it?
• 1:52
  Jeff Ornstein: Right, right.
• 1:53
  Jeff Ornstein: So you've been doing this for 30 years.
• 1:54
  Jeff Ornstein: So that you that makes you a real veteran.
• 1:57
  Jeff Ornstein: Yes.
• 1:57
  Jeff Ornstein: But you were a drummer and an actor.
• 1:59
  Jeff Ornstein: Was that in the beginnings of your career?
• 2:01
  Paul Sinacore: Yes, yes.
• 2:02
  Paul Sinacore: Uh, you know, as a young man, I came from Fort Lauderdale to Los Angeles with my friends, uh, my bandmates, uh, in a band called East of Gideon.
• 2:09
  Paul Sinacore: We had a record deal here in uh came in 89, got a record deal in 1991 with JRS Records.
• 2:15
  Paul Sinacore: And, you know, we were playing with wonderful bands uh on tour with Nirvana, opening for them.
• 2:20
  Paul Sinacore: We had great bands that are legends now opening for us in Hollywood, such as Rage Against the Machine, you know, uh Tool, things like that.
• 2:28
  Paul Sinacore: So it was a wonderful heyday.
• 2:29
  Paul Sinacore: We had Lenny Kravitz uh playing with us at the whiskey on stage, you know.
• 2:33
  Paul Sinacore: So it was just a wonderful time.
• 2:35
  Paul Sinacore: And um, you know, so I I lived that dream, chasing uh the rock star dream, and I still play drums professionally in the blues and country circuit because it's uh it's a passion, right?
• 2:46
  Paul Sinacore: And that I think that's what you'll find here is the underlying themes of passion.
• 2:50
  Paul Sinacore: You have to have passion for something, you know, love what you do, and you won't work a day in your life.
• 2:55
  Paul Sinacore: Exactly.
• 2:55
  Paul Sinacore: And you know, around the end of that uh run as far as the band, and then I had other bands, but my AR person, Beth Hollander was her name, she um she said, you have such a great personality, you should become an actor.
• 3:07
  Paul Sinacore: Why don't you do that?
• 3:08
  Paul Sinacore: So I went in for a few auditions, and that's where I got my start.
• 3:11
  Paul Sinacore: I became a SAG actor very quickly in uh 1996.
• 3:16
  Paul Sinacore: So a lot of my experience comes from being on set.
• 3:19
  Paul Sinacore: I had the great fortune of being placed next to star talent, A-list talent, and a lot of the things.
• 3:25
  Paul Sinacore: I did a lot of background work out of the gate, a lot of feature stuff because of my look at the time.
• 3:31
  Paul Sinacore: And I learned production and filmmaking from that aspect, television production from that aspect, multicam from that aspect.
• 3:38
  Paul Sinacore: And I'm a lifelong learner, and I pay very close attention to the masters that are around me.
• 3:43
  Paul Sinacore: So that's been my fortune in my learning curve.
• 3:47
  Paul Sinacore: So it's a it's a street education, if you will.
• 3:49
  Paul Sinacore: I'm not a trained uh theatrical actor by any means.
• 3:53
  Paul Sinacore: I'm an artist, I'm a natural talent in that way.
• 3:56
  Paul Sinacore: And that's what I recognize in many people as a casting director today is the natural gift of talent, right?
• 4:02
  Paul Sinacore: You can train to become an actor, but some people are gifted at it naturally.
• 4:07
  Paul Sinacore: So there is a degree of separation there.
• 4:10
  Paul Sinacore: Uh so my journey, yeah, and pivots of the next act was just that being an actor.
• 4:15
  Paul Sinacore: And then, you know, did many things.
• 4:17
  Paul Sinacore: Um, I was flipping houses, I got my real estate license, I was trying to sell stuff.
• 4:22
  Paul Sinacore: And then I, you know, got into academics and I went back to UCLA in my uh 40s, you know, as a non-traditional student and received degrees in psychology and anthropology there, and did not intend to be a casting director in any way, shape, or form, but uh was going to grad school to study uh the killing cove in Japan and Taiji, which was the intersection of like uh Japanese uh fishermen and um extreme activists at the time.
• 4:48
  Paul Sinacore: And I was doing research on empathy.
• 4:50
  Paul Sinacore: I'm very sensitive as a human being and in touch, and that's a wonderful thing for an actor as well, right?
• 4:56
  Paul Sinacore: This idea of feeling and uh and and and reading the room, reading others, and understanding that at the academic level.
• 5:03
  Paul Sinacore: So I was going to USC to do that, but needed money.
• 5:06
  Paul Sinacore: And um, and then I got brought into a big casting company to kind of run that in my 40s, and I did that for five years or so, and then started my own company as a casting director, Paul Cinecore Casting.
• 5:18
  Paul Sinacore: And, you know, from there I made my way um, you know, to the television academy and CSA and a lot of screen credits and producing films and things like that.
• 5:26
  Paul Sinacore: So a lot of next acts, if you will, in my journey, and it's always been a pivot uh and adaptation in the moment because I need all of them to really pay the bills, if you will, right?
• 5:37
  Paul Sinacore: Survival is about that.
• 5:39
  Paul Sinacore: Right.
• 5:39
  Paul Sinacore: And so today, you know, at 57 years old, it's the aggregate of all of my life experience, which is incredibly valuable for actors for anything that you do in life, right?
• 5:50
  Paul Sinacore: That's the one thing that you can't teach in uh film school, right?
• 5:53
  Paul Sinacore: Is life experiences, the ups and downs, how to do things the right way, the wrong way to do things, right?
• 6:00
  Paul Sinacore: What not to do, you know, all the trials and tribulations of the journey.
• 6:04
  Paul Sinacore: And, you know, as we get towards this aspect now of the next act is going to be uh directing, you know.
• 6:11
  Paul Sinacore: So that's that's where I'm headed is directing, writing, directing.
• 6:15
  Paul Sinacore: And I've produced a few things and I've cast quite a bit of stuff as well, and serendipitously have acted in a few for my director friends that have wanted me in roles, such as Clickka that you mentioned earlier.
• 6:26
  Paul Sinacore: Right.
• 6:27
  Paul Sinacore: That was amazing, you know, Sony Columbia Pictures release that's now streaming on Netflix, and you know, as the casting director on that, and then we had a fallout at the end, and I ended up stepping into a role, you know, by the request of the director.
• 6:39
  Paul Sinacore: Uh so I have that capability, and I still, you know, I don't really pursue acting.
• 6:44
  Paul Sinacore: It's not where I make my living, but it is a passion, much like playing the drums.
• 6:48
  Paul Sinacore: And um, you know, as we get towards talking about how difficult it is, right?
• 6:54
  Paul Sinacore: Uh yeah, I think you prefaced about the room, you know, how I the man on the other side or the woman on the other side of uh of that process.
• 7:01
  Paul Sinacore: Yeah, we can demystify that.
• 7:04
  Paul Sinacore: And um, and also know that, you know, from the production standpoint, you know, I level the playing field, understanding acting and understanding producing what is required there, the difficulties of it, you know, a film family coming together to uh it's a mirac it takes a miracle to make a film or an episode, uh, any anything that you're doing, a commercial, and an amazing team of crew, and uh, you know, above the line folks and below the line folks, and uh production assistants, everyone is so valuable and important, and to be able to recognize what everyone contributes to what we finally see on the screen or on our television at the end of the day, that is magic.
• 7:44
  Paul Sinacore: And that is uh, you know, you have to have a real passion for that, and an easy thing to do, but you always want to chase your dream and do what you want to do, right?
• 7:53
  Jeff Ornstein: You were like going in a very fast pace in a lot of different directions and just being a sponge.
• 8:00
  Jeff Ornstein: You were a sponge for knowledge, a sponge for academia, a sponge for um some of the different crafts associated with the entertainment industry.
• 8:07
  Jeff Ornstein: So, and you know, when I started studying at Stella Adler, they were always drilling into our head, stay in your lane, stay in your lane.
• 8:14
  Jeff Ornstein: You know, don't come there and expect them to ask you your opinion on how to direct or rewrite a script, just stay in your lane as an actor.
• 8:21
  Jeff Ornstein: But it seems to me like you're was your mind percolating when you were acting or when you were doing other parts of whatever you were asked to do.
• 8:29
  Jeff Ornstein: It sounds like people ask you to step in frequently.
• 8:31
  Jeff Ornstein: That's casting was something that you know you wanted to sink your teeth into a little bit because it's really an art.
• 8:37
  Jeff Ornstein: A well-cast piece is unbelievable.
• 8:40
  Jeff Ornstein: Unbelievable.
• 8:41
  Jeff Ornstein: So, how did you figure out you could do casting well?
• 8:46
  Paul Sinacore: That's interesting.
• 8:46
  Paul Sinacore: When I began casting, I was doing, you know, person-centered ethnographic interviewing for this casting company.
• 8:53
  Paul Sinacore: And um, you know, some of the directors I was working with was like Errol Morris, right?
• 8:58
  Paul Sinacore: And he was doing uh research on it was called the List.
• 9:01
  Paul Sinacore: I was doing interviews on people that were on the organ donor waiting list, right?
• 9:06
  Paul Sinacore: And uh it's something he never released, but the research is intense.
• 9:10
  Paul Sinacore: So my specialty coming out of you know social psychology and cultural psychological anthropology and my research, that is one of the skills that I learned at UCLA, ethnographic centered interviewing.
• 9:21
  Paul Sinacore: So that's where it began.
• 9:22
  Paul Sinacore: I've always been a people person and um, you know, gregarious in that sense as a drummer and trying to be a rock star and things of that nature and always being on that side of performance.
• 9:32
  Paul Sinacore: But this is a different take on it, and I think that's where I found my skill set and passion for it.
• 9:38
  Paul Sinacore: Like I said, going into that, being a casting director was not something that was on the radar at all.
• 9:44
  Paul Sinacore: But I'm naturally built for it in that way.
• 9:48
  Paul Sinacore: So that's that's what it was.
• 9:49
  Paul Sinacore: Um, left brain, right brain, right?
• 9:51
  Paul Sinacore: The creative ability to be able to connect with people, you know, and get them to open up to me in this process.
• 9:58
  Paul Sinacore: And then from the performer side, the sensitivity side of that, being interviewed, understanding what it is that you know they want to express and what the needs of the client are in the direction of questioning and finding the answers that we're looking for or the information that we're looking for.
• 10:15
  Paul Sinacore: And then just the process itself, just a wonderful way for me to engage with people, which is what I love to do.
• 10:22
  Paul Sinacore: And then, you know, this idea of providing opportunity, discovering talent.
• 10:27
  Paul Sinacore: So that's really been the passion that I really excel at now.
• 10:31
  Paul Sinacore: And I've discovered wonderful young talent, like you know, Quinn Awny, who's a wonderful young actress.
• 10:37
  Paul Sinacore: You know, we discovered her she was age uh eight for a film that we were doing and shows the Legion of Exorcists and Robert the Doll.
• 10:45
  Paul Sinacore: Now she's working, you know, with Nicole Kidman.
• 10:48
  Paul Sinacore: So it's just this amazing crossroads to be at to have find somebody or be being able to see that, right?
• 10:55
  Paul Sinacore: I don't think everybody has the ability to see talent and understand what that is, much less nurture and be in a position to get them to take that next step, right?
• 11:06
  Paul Sinacore: The baby steps of life, the stepping stones that an actor needs in their career, right?
• 11:11
  Paul Sinacore: So that's where it all ties together.
• 11:13
  Paul Sinacore: So it's not just one single thing, Jeff, of you know, uh, how do you know that you're good at being a casting director?
• 11:20
  Paul Sinacore: I think it's it's the individual, it's the life experience, it's um the mindset and how you connect with people, right?
• 11:27
  Paul Sinacore: Your social expertise, if you will, you know.
• 11:30
  Jeff Ornstein: You powwow like with the lighter, the director, and say, you know, for these characters, can you share with me what the essence of the person is you're looking for?
• 11:39
  Jeff Ornstein: Or are you drawing from their input also, or are you envisioning Sally Joe and Bob, you know, in your own brain and how they might come together?
• 11:48
  Jeff Ornstein: How does that work?
• 11:49
  Paul Sinacore: Yeah, absolutely 100%.
• 11:51
  Paul Sinacore: My job here is to help others realize and uh their vision, right?
• 11:56
  Paul Sinacore: So, yes, a lot of pow wowing about who the character is, who they want them to be, what a prototype of that uh actor model that they you know, everybody yeah, yeah, I need a guy like Brad Pitt in this role.
• 12:10
  Paul Sinacore: You know, okay, well, we're not gonna get Brad, but you know, who can we find?
• 12:13
  Paul Sinacore: I understand what you're saying, right?
• 12:15
  Paul Sinacore: Who do we discover that that that's uh got that sort of right, right?
• 12:20
  Jeff Ornstein: Right.
• 12:20
  Jeff Ornstein: So, but yes, when it's right, it's like you know, a symphony when all the all the instruments come together, it's just perfect.
• 12:28
  Jeff Ornstein: You know, and I was thinking, I, you know, I I heard about how for Mean Girls Lindsay Lohan and uh Rachel McAdams were cast in their opposite roles, and what a different movie it would have been had they, you know, Lindsay been the bad girl and Rachel Admonds been the innocent girl, or Wal Julia and William Hurt in Kiss of the Spider Woman.
• 12:47
  Jeff Ornstein: My understanding is those two that they were cast and then they flipped the roles, and we can't even imagine the movie anyway the but the way it was eventually released.
• 12:56
  Jeff Ornstein: Right.
• 12:57
  Paul Sinacore: Absolutely.
• 12:58
  Paul Sinacore: You know, that's the chemistry of casting.
• 13:00
  Paul Sinacore: Sometimes someone will come in to read for one thing, and you're like, oh, they are actually perfect for the opposite of that, as you're seeing there.
• 13:08
  Paul Sinacore: And you know, once you see something as an audience, I mean the finished product, right?
• 13:13
  Paul Sinacore: You're mapped on to that.
• 13:14
  Paul Sinacore: It's hard to see anyone else in the role if you look at some of the possible castings of great film.
• 13:20
  Paul Sinacore: Uh-huh.
• 13:21
  Jeff Ornstein: So the Academy Awards finally created a category for casting.
• 13:25
  Jeff Ornstein: I mean, is it just a year or two ago?
• 13:27
  Jeff Ornstein: Now that they're fantastic.
• 13:28
  Jeff Ornstein: So do you see yourself up on that stage?
• 13:31
  Paul Sinacore: Yeah, it was a, you know, what an accomplishment, what a recognition, and to shine a spotlight on casting directors.
• 13:38
  Paul Sinacore: My CS colleagues couldn't be more proud.
• 13:40
  Paul Sinacore: That was over, it's longer than a decade in the efforts to get that category added to the Academy Awards.
• 13:47
  Paul Sinacore: Um, it was the first year, so this is the inaugural class of casting directors, and what an amazing cross-section of casting directors that we had, and just great films as well.
• 13:59
  Paul Sinacore: Those castings, uh, the ensembles they put together, absolutely tremendous.
• 14:03
  Paul Sinacore: I did have the pleasure of, you know, hanging out with my CSA colleagues uh and watching that together.
• 14:09
  Paul Sinacore: We celebrated uh that moment.
• 14:11
  Paul Sinacore: You know, casting directors are such a vital part of um the creative vision.
• 14:17
  Paul Sinacore: They are creatives as well.
• 14:18
  Paul Sinacore: And as you're saying, pulling ensembles together or being able to pivot and realizing the vision of the director or the client, that that takes a ton of work.
• 14:29
  Paul Sinacore: That's and it's a special skill that everyone has honed over the years, especially uh the greats.
• 14:34
  Paul Sinacore: So, you know, kudos to them.
• 14:36
  Paul Sinacore: I they're all role models to me, you know.
• 14:39
  Paul Sinacore: Uh some of them are mentors, and I get a chance to engage with them and speak with them about castings and special events and things like that.
• 14:46
  Paul Sinacore: Yes, and that would be a wonderful aspiration and recognition to be up for an Academy Award in any way, shape, or form.
• 14:54
  Paul Sinacore: I was up for an Artios Award, nominated for Unsolved Mysteries, and that, you know, didn't win that.
• 14:59
  Paul Sinacore: But uh just the nomination is is the win.
• 15:02
  Paul Sinacore: That's that's and you know, much like acting, you know, the callback is the win, you know, of of of the craft, you know, and then the booking is the cherry on top.
• 15:11
  Paul Sinacore: So, you know, to be recognized by your peers in any way, shape, or form is absolutely such an honor.
• 15:17
  Jeff Ornstein: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 15:18
  Jeff Ornstein: I mean, because there's a lot of the people out there doing it, and there are five nominees or whatever.
• 15:22
  Jeff Ornstein: But I want to talk to you about that audio because it was for, and I want to say it properly, unscripted casting.
• 15:28
  Jeff Ornstein: So immediately in my mind, it went to reality TV.
• 15:31
  Jeff Ornstein: But it's not necessarily just reality TV.
• 15:34
  Jeff Ornstein: Right.
• 15:34
  Jeff Ornstein: It is unsolved mysteries or when you're telling us a nonfiction story fictitiously.
• 15:40
  Paul Sinacore: Right, right.
• 15:40
  Paul Sinacore: So they're scripted and unscripted, right?
• 15:42
  Paul Sinacore: Script is scripted, so you're following the script.
• 15:45
  Paul Sinacore: Unscripted and reality is uh, although some of it is scripted.
• 15:49
  Paul Sinacore: Um, unscripted is yeah, it's just what is happening, right?
• 15:53
  Paul Sinacore: And then there's the two categories, structured and unstructured, right?
• 15:58
  Paul Sinacore: So unstructured is more of the loose reality show where we're not sure what may happen.
• 16:03
  Paul Sinacore: And then structured is something like unsolved mysteries that we have a structure that we follow in the storytelling, right?
• 16:10
  Paul Sinacore: It's not scripted because a lot of these are interviews of the real people.
• 16:15
  Paul Sinacore: And um, you know, we're doing recreation casting, which is probably one of the most difficult types of casting to do instead of you know casting a role, you're casting to bring this real life person to life, right?
• 16:29
  Paul Sinacore: And in many cases, they're not even alive anymore in in some of these things, right?
• 16:33
  Paul Sinacore: So that that's the challenge of that, and um, and doing it justice and um respectfully.
• 16:39
  Paul Sinacore: But yeah, those are the differences in the categories.
• 16:42
  Paul Sinacore: So unsolved was unscripted, structured for that.
• 16:45
  Paul Sinacore: And one of the wonderful things about casting that is breaking some of those mysteries, right?
• 16:50
  Paul Sinacore: So unsolved mysteries that have been solved, where the work that we've done over the five volumes on Netflix, there are several cases where we've actually, you know, discovered or found or solved the missing person case or who the unidentified person was and brought closure to the families and the communities surrounding that.
• 17:13
  Paul Sinacore: So there's a wonderful sense of community there as well, and helping others, right?
• 17:18
  Paul Sinacore: Trying to do something of good service uh for the public good, right?
• 17:23
  Paul Sinacore: You're such a people person.
• 17:24
  Jeff Ornstein: It's in everything you do, it comes across.
• 17:27
  Jeff Ornstein: Tell me, I want to talk a little bit about Paul Sinacor casting.
• 17:30
  Jeff Ornstein: Where are you located?
• 17:31
  Paul Sinacore: Um in Los Angeles, uh Tahanga specifically, up by Pasadena.
• 17:35
  Paul Sinacore: I'm guessing I'm in my fifth year now.
• 17:37
  Jeff Ornstein: Congratulations.
• 17:38
  Paul Sinacore: It's just been an incredible journey.
• 17:40
  Paul Sinacore: Again, an unexpected one.
• 17:41
  Paul Sinacore: One of my next acts was that.
• 17:43
  Paul Sinacore: And from this base, if you will, is where all the hyphenate action comes from, right?
• 17:49
  Paul Sinacore: So uh I like to to plug in wherever I'm helpful into a production, right?
• 17:54
  Paul Sinacore: And kind of be able to talk and troubleshoot and you know, forward thinking for the success of of projects, right?
• 18:01
  Paul Sinacore: That's the goal is to make sure we elevate and we do the best that we can for what we're working within, you know.
• 18:08
  Jeff Ornstein: So are you I I would imagine you're chasing productions or producers or people wanting to make from or other kinds of artistic undertakings that you may be uh casting for, but you also are you trying to create a stable, like you know, trying to get like your eight to thirteen year olds and minority actors and character actors, and I mean, do you do you try to build that?
• 18:33
  Jeff Ornstein: Do you have a stable or is it fresh every time?
• 18:36
  Paul Sinacore: It's fresh every time, of course, because I am close with a lot of my actor colleagues in casting in the process.
• 18:43
  Paul Sinacore: Naturally, I I come to know them.
• 18:45
  Paul Sinacore: I go to see them perform.
• 18:46
  Paul Sinacore: I coach a lot of talent in LA and New York as well, so I get to know them personally.
• 18:51
  Paul Sinacore: Unlike central casting, no, I don't have a stable of actors or a database of actors that we can just choose from.
• 18:59
  Paul Sinacore: Each casting is a fresh approach uh to that casting, specific to the client's needs, and we take it from there, right?
• 19:08
  Paul Sinacore: Naturally, we do see the same people from time to time, right?
• 19:12
  Paul Sinacore: Because uh they fit the roles and and um you know the the cream rises to the surface, as they say, right?
• 19:18
  Paul Sinacore: The creme de la creme.
• 19:20
  Jeff Ornstein: I totally get it.
• 19:20
  Jeff Ornstein: Okay, so you're five years into postcinekor casting, and you've done so many things between your academic studies and your world travels and your philanthropical or uh and and and helping the world be a better place, endeavors, and then you're acting and you're performing.
• 19:35
  Jeff Ornstein: Where are you in five years, Paul?
• 19:37
  Paul Sinacore: Five years, I would like to be directing more, and naturally, you know, casting is the mainstay.
• 19:43
  Paul Sinacore: And acting is like I said at the beginning, it's more serendipitous.
• 19:46
  Paul Sinacore: I don't pursue acting, you know, as an actor.
• 19:49
  Paul Sinacore: I try to compete with with actors, especially in castings, although I've been in things that I've uh cast, not by choice.
• 19:56
  Paul Sinacore: But I'm loving what I do in all phases.
• 20:00
  Paul Sinacore: So just recently uh worked on a project called The Long Dark Climb, a wonderful short film proof of concept with uh Colin Costello, a wonderful award-winning writer, uh director.
• 20:12
  Paul Sinacore: And that ensemble cast was is is so special and elevated for the production budget that we had, and a four-day shoot was also a producer on that as well.
• 20:22
  Paul Sinacore: And um, that's what I love to do, you know.
• 20:25
  Paul Sinacore: So it's producing, it's casting, it's writing and directing when I have the opportunity, it's coaching talent.
• 20:32
  Paul Sinacore: You know, I'm working on a book as well to kind of demystify the process you talked about at the beginning.
• 20:38
  Paul Sinacore: What's it like to be on the other side of the room?
• 20:40
  Paul Sinacore: What is the survival mode for the actor?
• 20:43
  Paul Sinacore: When do you say when?
• 20:44
  Paul Sinacore: When do you keep chasing the dream?
• 20:45
  Paul Sinacore: You know, what can you do about it?
• 20:47
  Paul Sinacore: And I always love to tell actors, right, it's either about you or it's not about you, right?
• 20:52
  Paul Sinacore: So what that is is essentially you know, you do what you do and you do what you do well.
• 20:57
  Paul Sinacore: And if you're not booked for something, it's not necessarily something about you, right, right, that you could have done differently.
• 21:05
  Paul Sinacore: So I'm trying to kind of demystify that process in a in a book I'm working on.
• 21:11
  Paul Sinacore: And it is the lifelong experience of being on that side of it and then understanding clients, you know, being in a commercial casting grinder for years, understanding what producers and clients want.
• 21:22
  Paul Sinacore: And then, you know, the sensitivity of actors, that they don't walk out of the room feeling like I should have done something better or different, or that they have some sort of say in what a decision is.
• 21:33
  Paul Sinacore: And also, just to clarify, casting directors don't make decisions on casting either.
• 21:39
  Paul Sinacore: What they do is present opportunity to talent and present talent to clients, directors, right?
• 21:46
  Paul Sinacore: And then those people make the decisions ultimately.
• 21:50
  Paul Sinacore: But you know, where what we do is facilitate opportunity, right?
• 21:54
  Paul Sinacore: And you still have to walk through the door, it has to be about you, or it's not about you, right?
• 22:00
  Paul Sinacore: And that's something that is not personal to the actor, and that's trying to demystify that for the actor.
• 22:07
  Jeff Ornstein: But you have uh maintained an em it's very clear, you have an incredibly positive attitude about it, and you've taken on all these different responsibilities with gusto, and you and like you say, 57, you're still passionate about them, and that's so important to enjoy what you do.
• 22:24
  Jeff Ornstein: It is a key component to being successful, and it can because this is next act, and these are people trying to step into their next act, and there's courageousness and there's opportunity, and there's financial.
• 22:36
  Jeff Ornstein: There are so many different things that get mixed into the pot and how and when and why, and should I, should I not?
• 22:40
  Jeff Ornstein: But you've actually done quite a lot of um soul searching in different kinds of arenas, and obviously to great success.
• 22:48
  Jeff Ornstein: So is there one lesson that you learned the hard way that you could share with people that are thinking about maybe taking this jump?
• 22:57
  Paul Sinacore: Yes, absolutely.
• 22:58
  Paul Sinacore: I mean, much like life, lots of ups and downs.
• 23:00
  Paul Sinacore: If if we're talking specifically about actors, it's the difference that a day makes.
• 23:05
  Paul Sinacore: And at the end of the day, you are who you are and you do what you do, and you should do that with passion.
• 23:12
  Paul Sinacore: Right.
• 23:13
  Paul Sinacore: And the moment of change, right, the pivot or success, it could be a day away, right?
• 23:19
  Paul Sinacore: It's the difference that day makes as long as you're pursuing your passion and your dream.
• 23:24
  Paul Sinacore: Yes, life is challenging.
• 23:26
  Paul Sinacore: Being an actor is challenging, auditioning is difficult, productions are difficult, writing and directing, incredibly difficult.
• 23:33
  Paul Sinacore: Finding funding, distribution, things like that, difficult, right?
• 23:37
  Paul Sinacore: Legal aspects of life, very difficult, right?
• 23:40
  Paul Sinacore: So we have all of these challenges, and a lot of that part of life can get on you heavily enough that you want to quit.
• 23:48
  Paul Sinacore: And my advice is to push through that because it's only it's it's the diamond, right?
• 23:53
  Paul Sinacore: You have a piece of coal and all the pressure makes the diamond.
• 23:55
  Paul Sinacore: You have to be that, and you have to have that sort of resiliency in life in general, and especially in the in this industry, in any phase of the entertainment industry.
• 24:05
  Paul Sinacore: You have to be tremendously flexible, right, right, and malleable, and you have to be able to take it, right?
• 24:12
  Paul Sinacore: It's a very difficult business, and you should not take anything personally, find that within yourself.
• 24:18
  Paul Sinacore: You must pursue what you love to do and your dream, and it's the difference that a day will make in success, right?
• 24:25
  Paul Sinacore: But you have to keep going in order to succeed, right?
• 24:28
  Paul Sinacore: Right.
• 24:28
  Jeff Ornstein: That's exactly right.
• 24:29
  Jeff Ornstein: Because you know what?
• 24:30
  Jeff Ornstein: All those things are difficult, but you know what's also difficult?
• 24:32
  Jeff Ornstein: Stagnation.
• 24:33
  Jeff Ornstein: That's difficult.
• 24:35
  Jeff Ornstein: So that's right.
• 24:36
  Jeff Ornstein: I have to wrap this up.
• 24:37
  Jeff Ornstein: I am going to add you to all my search engines so I can always keep in touch on top of what you're doing because I suspect everything will be dynamic, and I can't wait to see 'em.
• 24:46
  Jeff Ornstein: Thanks for tuning in to Next Act with Jeff Orenstein.
• 24:49
  Jeff Ornstein: Follow, subscribe, and stay connected to your favorite socials at www.nextackpodcast.com.
• 24:57
  Jeff Ornstein: Keep chasing your next act.
• 24:59
  Jeff Ornstein: The best is yet to come.