Latest / The Illinois Nutrient Loss Reduction Podcast / Episode 56 | Cover Crop Considerations: A farmer's perspective
Transcript
- Episode 56 | Cover Crop Considerations: A farmer's perspective 00:00:06:03 - 00:00:36:14 Todd Gleason This is the Illinois Nutrient Loss Reduction Podcast. Episode 56, cover crop considerations - A farmers perspective. I'm University of Illinois Extension's Todd Gleason. Coming up, we'll hear an excerpt of the conversation I held during the 2023 Farm Progress Show on stage at the University of Illinois College of Aces tent with three farmers that are actively deploying cover crops and other production practices related to nutrient loss mitigation. 00:00:36:16 - 00:00:46:10 Todd Gleason We were joined by Chad Bell, Cliff Schuette, and Norm Deets. I asked each of them beginning with Norm, to tell me a little bit about their operations. 00:00:46:10 - 00:00:59:14 Norm Deets I farm up in northwestern Illinois, called Milledgeville. It's about half an hour from Iowa. Hour from Wisconsin. So it's, it's kind of up there. I farm about 500 acres. 00:00:59:14 - 00:01:01:27 Norm Deets Corn, soybeans, and alfalfa. 00:01:01:29 - 00:01:04:11 Todd Gleason And it rolls pretty good in the area you're in? 00:01:04:17 - 00:01:11:10 Norm Deets Yeah, it rolls pretty good. You know, obviously the Mississippi and the Rock River watershed. So we do have our slopes. 00:01:11:12 - 00:01:18:23 Todd Gleason So when you think of a farm, you probably visualize a farm that has great big sweeping curves. And I'm going to guess that's what, Norm Deets. 00:01:19:00 - 00:01:24:00 Todd Gleason Your farm looks like. Chad Bell, How about yours? And where is it that you farm? 00:01:24:00 - 00:01:38:14 Chad Bell So I farm up in northwest Illinois and Mercer County. Town called viola, farm with my dad. We farm about 1200 acres of corn and soybeans. A little bit of wheat. We also hay some of our old pasture. We don't have cows anymore. 00:01:38:14 - 00:01:48:29 Chad Bell But, the year that we got out of the cows, I put up a finishing barn for a local family. And so I'm raising and finishing, about 5000 head of pigs per year. 00:01:49:02 - 00:01:50:25 Todd Gleason And Cliff Schuette, how about yourself? 00:01:50:27 - 00:02:02:27 Cliff Schuette From southern Illinois, about 40 miles east to Saint Louis. I farm with my sons, also have a large cattle operation, and I've been in the seed business for about 35 years and been working with cover crops for about 23. 00:02:02:29 - 00:02:23:02 Todd Gleason So one of the interesting things about having the three of you on with us, that is pretty apparent to those who know the state very well, is that you're all along the Mississippi River somewhere fairly closely, which probably means that you have been imbued the entirety of your life with the idea that you need to control soil erosion, I would think. 00:02:23:04 - 00:02:38:15 Todd Gleason And then at some point, you must have started thinking about nutrient loss as well. When did that happen for you? And what is the heritage that brought you to, control these things the way you do today? 00:02:38:17 - 00:02:48:00 Cliff Schuette Well, it started actually, probably about 20 years ago. Raising forages for, cattle. And then all that came along, the nutrient loss, and then, just the soil health aspect of it. 00:02:48:00 - 00:02:56:20 Cliff Schuette So I came in from the livestock side, which we can get a better benefit, you know, year round by doing these practices. So that's that was my journey. And working with other producers. 00:02:56:23 - 00:02:58:08 Todd Gleason Chad? 00:02:58:08 - 00:03:11:20 Chad Bell So my cover crop journey kind of started in 2012 and, was realizing that, you know, every year we were filling in ditches and to get ready to plant every spring. 00:03:11:20 - 00:03:30:20 Chad Bell And I was getting I was getting kind of tired of doing the same thing over and over, every year after year after year, and decided that it was time I wanted to do something, and my dad really wasn't too fond of putting in waterways and taking land out of production, per se. And so started, working with cover crops in 2012. 00:03:30:20 - 00:03:50:07 Chad Bell And now about three years after that, I was using cover crops and every acre and and now I'm, I'm still doing the same thing. And now that I realize, you know, soil stopping, soil erosion is good for our land. And we're if we can keep the soil on the land where it needs to be, then we're not losing nutrients along with it. 00:03:50:10 - 00:04:11:11 Todd Gleason Interesting thought, because I know from my own perspective 60ft waterways on my own farmer, the thing that I like to look out at most, however it lays out really flat for the most part. There are some hills of course, within it, but I do like those 60ft waterways. I think they're just gorgeous. And maybe as not quite an absentee landowner, I have a different view of that. 00:04:11:11 - 00:04:17:12 Todd Gleason Norm Deets, you're laughing. But that's probably true, right? 00:04:17:14 - 00:04:49:20 Norm Deets I started no tilling in 1985, simply because we have light soils up there called timber soils. And we were doing the same thing. You're kind of filling, ditches every year. And the no tail started, and it took us to a certain degree, that way. And kind of my dad started that, and I just followed, but, you know, we couldn't solve the, the, the time when it was just kind of thawing and we get a rain. 00:04:49:23 - 00:05:14:15 Norm Deets We couldn't stop it with no till, especially on being, being stubble. So in 2014 went to, the, cover crops. And that helped a great deal. And then I kind of developed a little thing for, waterways or more like where water could run. And I've kind of eliminated some waterways by using cover crops. 00:05:14:17 - 00:05:15:13 Todd Gleason I'm going to guess. 00:05:15:13 - 00:05:43:06 Todd Gleason Do each of you have hell acres or highly erodible lands? I know, and this is a different property, but within Logan County, and that's good black dirt right here in the center of the state. My own family of four brothers, which still farm, had some hell acres. They went in the late 80s, I'm sorry, in the late 70s, early 80s to no till to try to control erosion on some really, really, really steep grades. 00:05:43:09 - 00:06:15:18 Todd Gleason Nephews now are using cover crops on those same lands and some of the other flat properties that are out there. I think it's more difficult for flatlanders to think about using crop, cover crops. But they do work, it appears. And I'm wondering from each of your experiences, what kinds of things work on your farm and Cliff, I, you know, if you use cover crops or other things that work best, what what is it that you find on your own farm that you like to use and you've had real success with? 00:06:15:20 - 00:06:19:27 Todd Gleason And maybe what did you stop doing that just did not work? 00:06:20:00 - 00:06:33:00 Cliff Schuette Well, what I've learned over the journey over the years is that, we're moving away from a monoculture type of a cover crop mix and, go into more three and six way mixes. What we're finding out is the biology is is your should be your friend. 00:06:33:06 - 00:06:48:01 Cliff Schuette And we're trying to get more biology in the ground, so they'll going to work for you and loosen that ground up. It's all about infiltration. And, once we get infiltration, start it. Water in the ground that we don't have to rely on a waterway or a terrace or a WASQB is what we've learned. And and getting them things. 00:06:48:01 - 00:07:05:11 Cliff Schuette Implement it. And coming up with a plan, working with the growers year round to get these cover crops put in at the right time is is what what we wanted, what we're doing, what we got away is, is using monocultures. That's what we've been raised with corn, soybeans, we're taking it to the next level so we can grow 7 or 8 crops in one year. 00:07:05:14 - 00:07:22:10 Todd Gleason So the no tillers in the crew are going to say, hey, wait a second. I have plenty of earthworms. I don't need to worry very much about infiltration. That's working. All right. All ready. And by the way, don't ever tell me to tear this property up because I don't want to kill my earthworms. That's what they're going to say. 00:07:22:10 - 00:07:24:28 Todd Gleason You're saying we need to do a bit more than that? 00:07:24:28 - 00:07:36:19 Cliff Schuette Yes. We do. We need to be diversified. We need to respect the livestock below the ground to work on, work on our problems. But we got to feed them. And that's the biggest thing with the soil health journey that we learned that I did not know. 15 years, 20 years ago. 00:07:36:19 - 00:07:49:04 Cliff Schuette And it's been really fun to build your soul in places. We have worked for producers 20 years. That went from 2%, 3%, up to five and 6% of, organic matter. That's one infiltration really happens. 00:07:49:10 - 00:07:57:08 Todd Gleason So what are the mixes look like that helped that have helped you to build the soil health? And improve that on your own farm? 00:07:57:11 - 00:08:13:19 Cliff Schuette Basically, we're we're trying to get, you know, a radish in there early on, which is trouble, early on. And then we went to a little bit of ryegrass. We're doing some rye and triticale, so we're constantly mixing up plans. What crop you're going to go into is what we're going to put into the mixes. So we don't get in trouble in front of the next crop. 00:08:13:19 - 00:08:19:14 Cliff Schuette That's the biggest thing we worry about. We don't want to lose lose the farm by putting a cover crop mix that's going to hurt your next crop. 00:08:19:16 - 00:08:25:27 Todd Gleason Are you using the tillage radish, that the tillage radish, because you have cattle to run on the property? 00:08:25:27 - 00:08:29:18 Cliff Schuette That also is part of the food there, but that also breaks up the compaction. 00:08:29:18 - 00:08:33:00 Cliff Schuette If we can get them planted in September so they can do a good work for us. 00:08:33:06 - 00:08:54:16 Todd Gleason Okay, Chad, you'll have forgive me. There's a lot going on here, and I don't recall. I believe you have beef cattle, if I remember correctly. On the farm. Tell me about your experience. Over the last several years, since 14 or 12, and how you have adjusted what you've been doing, what didn't work to begin with, and what you think works best now. 00:08:54:18 - 00:09:15:28 Chad Bell So I'd say the biggest change that I've made since the beginning was, early on, once I started using cereal rye is mostly what I use. Once I started implementing that ahead of corn, I was trying to No till into that. Weather is mostly green is what I started planting into green cereal rye and then terminating it. 00:09:16:01 - 00:09:42:27 Chad Bell Just the springs. The way the weather was working out, we were having some wetter springs and more challenging planting conditions. I was really struggling, getting good stands without seedling disease, planting corn into living cover crop or even, terminated cover crop. I was having a lot of extra residue to deal with. And so, here, about 4 or 5 years ago, I started, trying some strip till corn. 00:09:43:00 - 00:10:09:08 Chad Bell And that's currently how I manage all of my corn acres that I can strip till, and I'm just basically taking, anhydrous bar, putting my fall nitrogen on, building that strip and planning on top of that strip come spring. So I've been able to eliminate the, large residue issues, and, I've had better stands and better yields just from making some of those changes. 00:10:09:10 - 00:10:25:28 Todd Gleason Let me follow up just a little bit, because if you're using the anhydrous bar, you actually, creating a strip, relatively speaking, or you just coming back in the knife track, when you come back in the spring to, plant your crop? 00:10:26:00 - 00:10:32:14 Chad Bell I'm putting anhydrous on in the fall on the strip, and then I'm planting, coming back in the spring and planting directly on top of that strip. 00:10:32:14 - 00:10:51:27 Todd Gleason Not the question I'm asking, I don't think. Are you actually, creating a strip other than other than the anhydrous knife track? Is there something else that you're doing? Is there another tillage operation to create the strip, or are you just planting right? Or you're putting anhydrous on with a normal bar and then just coming right back over the top? 00:10:51:29 - 00:11:11:02 Todd Gleason Yep. Just just planting right into that anhydrous bar strip from the fall. Doing no extra passes and just fall anhydrous. Come in plant next spring. And do you try it in the springtime as well? Have you done that? I know my own brothers have done that and it works, but you do have to have some time between the two. 00:11:11:10 - 00:11:25:08 Chad Bell Yeah. So I, I tend to lean away from spring anhydrous typically when it's, when it's fit to do anhydrous, I'm ready to plant. So I'm, I'm not looking to, extend that planting window at all. 00:11:25:10 - 00:11:35:18 Todd Gleason This seems like an easy, no brainer way for producers who want to start doing something, even if they're not no till, but something that that was simple. 00:11:35:18 - 00:11:49:29 Todd Gleason It would be easy to do no till this way, but into beans, that they can simply follow your lead here and do their anhydrous if that's what they want to do in the fall, and follow with the GPS right over the top of that track, I would think. 00:11:50:01 - 00:11:54:27 Chad Bell Yeah, it's I've found that it's taken a little bit of extra management. 00:11:55:00 - 00:12:13:02 Chad Bell I like putting my own anhydrous on in the fall, doing my own strip till because, you know, the way that you apply that in the fall and build those strips is how you're going to be set up to plant that field come spring. And so I'm the only one that, you know, really knows how I want my fields to be planted in the spring. 00:12:13:02 - 00:12:37:11 Chad Bell So I kind of need to be the one doing the strip till in the fall. But, I have done had a little bit of custom strip tilled done by, adding dry fertilizer plus the anhydrous in that strip. And so I don't have capabilities of doing that myself currently. And so I've had some custom done and, and I may have more of that to do depending on how this year's yield results turn out. 00:12:37:13 - 00:12:56:02 Todd Gleason A lot of pride and management, on these farms. Tell me about the things that worked for you. Cliff, to begin with. And then we'll talk about what, or did not work for you, and then we'll talk about what is working for you. So what? What have you tried that you just said? Oh, yeah. Never again. 00:12:56:04 - 00:13:15:25 Cliff Schuette Well, I, I thought it was last year I flew on rye for the first time on my corn stocks. Because when we're up in the northwest, it's cold because I like to drill it in. I can drill in after beans and get established, but by the time I get the corn off, it's a little too, too cold, to get the the rye to grow much. 00:13:15:25 - 00:13:37:20 Cliff Schuette So I thought about flying on rye. When I combine the corn. I thought it was, a disaster because I didn't really see much rye. But the next spring, the rye grew. I think the lesson I learned from that is I'm going to wait a couple extra weeks. They say maybe wait till black layer the corn's black layer. 00:13:37:20 - 00:14:00:05 Cliff Schuette So the the the plant's starting to dry up a little bit because I really don't think I got the sunlight. And I need to go a little bit later with the sunlight. And it still will be ahead of my drilling even when I combine, the beans probably not the sunlight, and probably didn't get the seed all the way to the ground because you had so much leaf area and a lot of worlds to so less seed. 00:14:00:11 - 00:14:11:07 Todd Gleason I would think you would be following potentially some of the University of Illinois and and others, research into the small robots trying to seed into, standing cover crops. 00:14:11:07 - 00:14:14:20 Todd Gleason I know it's a long ways off, but could be interesting. 00:14:14:20 - 00:14:30:17 Cliff Schuette I think it would be interesting. You know, we have to find a way to get it there. And they've done a lot of experimental things. I don't know, I guess I'm I'm not quite ready to try those. I am going to try flying it on again this year into my corn. 00:14:30:19 - 00:14:32:12 Cliff Schuette And see how that turns out. 00:14:32:14 - 00:14:46:14 Todd Gleason How do each of you and I ask the, the other two of you managed to get cover crops in, and what's your timing like? And then we also need to talk about, termination in the spring of these. Chad, how do you put your cover crops in? 00:14:46:14 - 00:14:52:18 Chad Bell So currently I am just broadcasting the rye seed with a fertilizer cart. 00:14:52:20 - 00:15:18:04 Chad Bell I'm not even adding fertilizer with it. I'm just filling the spreader cart with straight seed and slinging it out. So if I shut the back gate as tight as it'll go, I can, spread about 60 pounds an acre. Is about as light as I can get it, which is adequate for what I'm doing, but I but I've done all of the methods I've planted with my 15 inch planter. 00:15:18:04 - 00:15:28:18 Chad Bell I've aerial spread, I've put it, mixed it with fertilizer and spread it that way. So I've kind of done a little bit of everything. But right now I'm just basically broadcast and straight seed. 00:15:28:20 - 00:15:32:04 Todd Gleason And Cliff, how do you go about, seeding cover crops? 00:15:32:06 - 00:15:36:09 Cliff Schuette We use everything that's available. Best thing is get it in with a drill. 00:15:36:11 - 00:15:55:22 Cliff Schuette But a lot of our seasons are not going to let that happen. So, work with the producers to, get a game plan on hybrids and varieties that you want to use. So actually wanted September 20th. That's your harvesting stuff. Or October 1st that you can get some more of the mixes in. If that doesn't work. Then we go fly the drones as talk about new technology. 00:15:55:22 - 00:16:12:03 Cliff Schuette Been using that for three years now and that works real well. And you can broadcast through fertilizer and work it in a little bit. So basically the biggest thing I try to work with guys on to have a plan now because what you're going to want to do here in September, some decisions is going to affect on getting that job done. 00:16:12:03 - 00:16:14:13 Cliff Schuette And so that's how I would attack it. 00:16:14:13 - 00:16:29:15 Todd Gleason I'll ask and I just need kind of a shake of the head. Does anybody try cover crops into soybean? So you're planting corn the next year. Has anybody done that? And has it worked or not? 00:16:29:17 - 00:16:41:21 Norm Deets Yeah, I've done that since 2014. I'll drill rye into the soybean stubble after I combine them, and then come back and and do corn in the spring. 00:16:41:23 - 00:16:47:17 Todd Gleason And which do you have more success? Cover crop corn or cover crop soybeans. 00:16:47:19 - 00:16:54:12 Norm Deets Until this year, it was cover crop corn. But the dry weather and cover crop did not work this year. 00:16:54:14 - 00:16:55:18 Todd Gleason Same thing for you too? 00:16:55:25 - 00:16:59:25 Cliff Schuette We learned, we learned a lesson this year in front of corn. Near that, we got to probably pull up a little early. 00:16:59:25 - 00:17:14:11 Cliff Schuette We planned green all the time if we can, to get the most out to cover crop, but that did suck a lot of moisture out this year. It's 1 in 100. So, you know, at a year we're using it to work the moisture out. This year, it, took too much and got in front of corn, which corn does not like that. 00:17:14:11 - 00:17:25:23 Cliff Schuette So once again, we're constantly learning. And, we'll change it up for a little bit for next year. But, keeping it covered, keeping it green as long as you can is the best way to to get infiltration and soil health. 00:17:25:25 - 00:17:31:04 Todd Gleason Final question for the group. How do you go about terminating your cover crop? 00:17:31:06 - 00:17:33:09 Cliff Schuette Well, it depends on what crop you're gonna use. 00:17:33:12 - 00:17:47:17 Cliff Schuette You know, we try to use the difference in chemistries up front. We try to use a good mix on up front, and then try to burn it to the ground than in crop. Whatever does come back, we can come in with, you know, the technology on beans. We got 3 or 4 choices there on corn of using treated. 00:17:47:18 - 00:17:52:25 Cliff Schuette We got roundup and and livery there and that we'll clean everything up with that program. 00:17:52:27 - 00:18:02:09 Todd Gleason Cliff Schuette is from, southwestern Illinois. Chad Bell is from the northwestern part of Illinois, south of Rock Island. Moline. 00:18:02:11 - 00:18:20:26 Chad Bell Yep. So I'm using glyphosate primarily, ahead of both or my cover crop, both in front of corn and soybeans. So, I've been kind of doing a little bit of everything, but this year, ahead of my corn, I made a dedicated glyphosate pass before planting to terminate the cereal rye. 00:18:20:29 - 00:18:31:27 Chad Bell And then this year, ahead of soybeans, I was planting the soybeans green and then terminating with glyphosate while adding my residual and right after the planter. 00:18:32:00 - 00:18:40:25 Todd Gleason And Cliff Schuette, he is with us. He's also from the northwestern part of Illinois, and I'm going to guess that you're just to the north of Rock Island, Moline or. 00:18:40:28 - 00:18:43:03 Norm Deets Yeah, I'm to the north of them. 00:18:43:05 - 00:19:07:00 Norm Deets And a little bit east. The we can only do rye. We don't do the multiples. So killing it is pretty easy. I kill it before I plan it. And just the glyphosate will will kill it. I do want to go to planting soybeans green and killing it later, but sometimes you have a little bit, I don't spray my own. 00:19:07:03 - 00:19:22:21 Norm Deets So you have they. They don't quite understand conservation up there. And conservation tillage as well as they should. And it's hard to get them to, to do different things and different timing with different chemicals. But we're working on it. 00:19:22:24 - 00:19:33:07 Norm Deets That's Norm Deets. He, Cliff Schuette, and Chad Bell joined us for our cover crops discussion on the University of Illinois stage at the 2023 Farm Progress Show held in Decatur. 00:19:33:09 - 00:19:47:02 Todd Gleason The show was coordinated by extensions Rachel Curry and Nicole Haverback specifically for use in the Illinois Nutrient Loss Reduction Podcast. Please do take time now to subscribe to our program. I'm Todd Gleason.