Latest / Heavyweight / 2026 Update: Christina

Transcript

2026 Update: Christina · Heavyweight

• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Pushkin.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Hi.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: You know, when you meditate, you're supposed to acknowledge the
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: breath and put a name to it, like that was
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: a small breath, that was a big breath. If I
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: had to put a name to that, hello, I would
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: say hesitantly, cheerful.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll take that.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: That's a part of my meditation, is naming your hellos.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: Kind of weird, but uh, all right, we're going to
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: revisit another great episode today.
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: Hit me.
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: It's called Christina.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's truly one of my favorite episodes.
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a really good one.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I love it. I will say this and
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: maybe you can confirm this fact check me on this.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: But this was an early season two episode, and up
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: until this point, I had largely worked with people that
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: I already knew, like friends and family, and this this
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: was the first time that I was actually like traveling
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: out in the world to meet someone.
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that is true.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'll never forget. But when they met me
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: at the airport, Christina and her husband LEVI, I just
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: remember like seeing the look of hope and respect almost
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: in their eyes. Yeah, and I just felt like, oh
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: my god, these poor people, like I don't deserve that
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: look at all. But I really better get it together.
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: And then you've gotten it together for ten years now.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: You know what I do. I look at myself in
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: the bathroom mirror and I slap myself in the face
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: and I say, get it together.
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: Buy.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: Well, it's working, so I guess keep doing that. Yeah, well,
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: enjoyed the episode, and afterwards we're going to hear from
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: Christina what she's up to now.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Yes, we're gonna get a nice update about what Christina's
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: life has been like and the impact that participating in
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: the episode had on her. Oh but if we could
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: reverse the process and eat our dessert before we move
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: on to the main course, A word from our sponsors.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: Hello, Hey, do you have a copy of TV Guide?
• 2:32
  Speaker 5: No?
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: No, Why I can't find my copy? And I was
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: wondering what was on TV? Don't you don't you remember?
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Don't you remember?
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: Don't wait?
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Don't you remember calling people up on the phone?
• 2:50
  Speaker 5: I do remember that, Yeah.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Just to see what was on I remember calling on
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: my Antille because I was too I was too lazy
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: to get up off the couch to look for the
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: TV Guide, so I just called her up. Woman could
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: hardly walk and she had to search around for a
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: TV guide from Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: is Heavyweight Today's episode. Christina, this is the best of
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: all possible worlds. My father was fond of saying. The
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: words were spoken contentedly, often while reclining in a barca
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: lounger belt buckle undone after a large meal of baked
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: beans and lamb chops. But what did my father know
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: of other worlds? He'd held down the same job and
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: was married to the same woman for decades plus. He
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: hardly left the house. But what he did know was
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: that this world had one thing over all of those
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: other worlds. It existed from my father, that was enough
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: to make it best. I, on the other hand, am
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: not one over so easily.
• 4:17
  Speaker 6: Sure.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Existence is a nice quality, a fine quality, but going
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: so far as to call a world that contains both
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: soul patches and puddles the best possible anything seems a
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: little extreme, and so imagining other worlds the same, only
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: better is just too irresistible. In spite of the pain
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: such thinking inevitably invites. Why don't we start from the beginning? Okay,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: this is Christina, and like me, she knows this world
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: can use a few tweaks. Overall, she says her life
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: hasn't been a bad one, it's just not the one
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: she was meant to live. She's worked as a waitress,
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: a receptionist, as a home care worker, the kinds of
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: jobs you do, but not necessarily the kind you dream about. Lately,
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: she's been helping run her husband's company.
• 5:08
  Speaker 7: It's a a disc golfing backpack company.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: Say sorry, say that again. It's a what disc golf
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: backpack is? What is disc golf?
• 5:18
  Speaker 8: It's like ball golf, but instead of balls and clubs,
• 5:21
  Speaker 8: you have frisbees.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: Oh, when you say ball golf, you're talking about golf golf.
• 5:24
  Speaker 7: Like a regular golf.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I've never heard it referred to distinguished as
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: ball golf, but I.
• 5:30
  Speaker 7: Will only disc golfers call it ball golf.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: So, but how do you how do you get a
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: frisbee in a golf hole?
• 5:36
  Speaker 7: No, it's actually not a hole, it's a basket.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Oh, my goodness. Before she started pining after better worlds,
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: Christina was focused on just one, the world of small
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: town Western Canada.
• 5:49
  Speaker 7: I lived with my mom. She was a single mom.
• 5:52
  Speaker 8: My dad left when I was around one, and my
• 5:55
  Speaker 8: mom was diagnosed with schizophrenia.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: Christina was just a kid, so a lot of it's
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: now fuzzy, but she remembers bits of things, her mom
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: going off her meds and beginning to hear voices, her
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: mom waking her in the middle of the night and
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: saying they had to leave right away. She remembers running
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: with her mom down dark streets.
• 6:15
  Speaker 8: She started becoming violent and she would just, you know,
• 6:19
  Speaker 8: hit me with the phone handle, or this one time
• 6:22
  Speaker 8: she came after me with a high heeled shoe. There's
• 6:26
  Speaker 8: no food in the house. She wouldn't do laundry, like
• 6:29
  Speaker 8: the dirty clothes would pile up in the living room,
• 6:32
  Speaker 8: Like I remember this massive mound of dirty clothes, and
• 6:36
  Speaker 8: I remember this kid made fun of me for having
• 6:39
  Speaker 8: dirty pants, and so I started stealing clothes just so
• 6:42
  Speaker 8: I could have clean clothes to go to school.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: When you were a kid trying to survive on your own,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: the unthinkable can start to seem normal. To escape her house,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Christina took a job caring for two boys not much
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: younger than herself. She became a twelve year old live
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: in nanny.
• 7:00
  Speaker 8: So I ended up moving in with this family and
• 7:02
  Speaker 8: looking after the boys. They paid me a little bit
• 7:07
  Speaker 8: and I quit school to be a nanny.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: When she stopped showing up at school, social services removed
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Christina from the nannying house, but instead of bringing her
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: back to her mom, they took her to a foster home.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: She was sent to live with an older couple and
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: their grandson. They lived on the fancier side of town
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: in a house decorated with candleholders and decorative pistols. The
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: foster mother was a woman named Isabelle. Her grandson, David,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: was the golden boy who could do no wrong. From
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: day one, Christina struggled for Isabelle's approval.
• 7:46
  Speaker 8: My foster mother and I kind of butted heads a
• 7:49
  Speaker 8: little bit or a lot.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Although Isabelle was only an inch taller, Christina was scared
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: of her. Her foster mother communicated through rules and punishments.
• 8:01
  Speaker 7: She was very strict.
• 8:04
  Speaker 8: Fris five minutes late for curfew, I would be grounded
• 8:06
  Speaker 8: for a month.
• 8:07
  Speaker 7: It felt like I was always grounded.
• 8:10
  Speaker 8: And afraid all the time, and kind of walking on eggshells,
• 8:15
  Speaker 8: and yeah, just feeling always really intimidated and scared.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: I was always scared, and when she got scared, Christina
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: would go silent. As a result, she never once stood
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: up to Isabelle. It was while living in Isabelle's world
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: that another better world presented itself to Christina. A world
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: with rules that were easy to understand, a world where
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: someone was always keeping score and keeping things fair. This
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: was the eighty four x fifty foot world of a
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: basketball court.
• 8:55
  Speaker 8: I can't explain how much I was obsessed with basketball.
• 8:59
  Speaker 7: I would practice at like six in the morning at
• 9:02
  Speaker 7: the school.
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: I would practice on weekends.
• 9:05
  Speaker 8: I'd watch the NBA games with Clyde the Glide and
• 9:08
  Speaker 8: Charles Barkley. Then my name was in the paper a
• 9:11
  Speaker 8: few times. I think I have some paper clippings of
• 9:14
  Speaker 8: like high scoring.
• 9:15
  Speaker 7: I loved, loved, loved basketball.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: On the basketball court, Christina was never scared. It was
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: a place where, for the first time in her life,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: she felt in control and confident. Her foster brother, David,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: a popular jock, spent hours helping her get better. She
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: joined a team and quickly became a high scorer. Eventually
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: she was made team captain.
• 9:37
  Speaker 8: They would always put me inside, like I would always
• 9:39
  Speaker 8: have to guard the post.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: When Christina talks about basketball, she lights up, and I
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: want to encourage her to keep talking by asking questions.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: But my only real knowledge of basketball comes from watching
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: the Harlem Globetrotters. I was in my thirties before I
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: learned it was illegal to bring stilts onto the court,
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: so my questions are limited.
• 9:57
  Speaker 8: We tall no only five to six. But I guess
• 10:02
  Speaker 8: I kind of had this unrealistic view of myself where
• 10:08
  Speaker 8: I thought I was taller than I was because off court,
• 10:12
  Speaker 8: I was like kind of meek, and I'd just follow
• 10:16
  Speaker 8: the crowd and I wouldn't create any waves. I didn't
• 10:19
  Speaker 8: really have an opinion, but on the court I was
• 10:22
  Speaker 8: a force to be reckoned with. It was like the
• 10:24
  Speaker 8: only time where I felt powerful.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: It was around this time that a plan began to
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: take shape. If she kept practicing and kept winning, she'd
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: get a basketball scholarship. Christina knew that was her only
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: hope of getting into college.
• 10:44
  Speaker 8: I wanted to get out of that circle of welfare
• 10:48
  Speaker 8: and illness and living from paycheck to paycheck and just
• 10:53
  Speaker 8: feeling just being poor.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: It sucked, which brings us to the moment that thirty
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: years later, Christina still can't stop thinking about. She'd just
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: come home from school when Isabelle called her into the kitchen,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: sat her down at the table, and presented her with
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: an ultimatum.
• 11:11
  Speaker 7: She said, you have to get your grades up.
• 11:13
  Speaker 8: You have to work harder at school, and so in
• 11:17
  Speaker 8: order for me to be able to play basketball the
• 11:20
  Speaker 8: following year, which would have been eleventh grade, I had
• 11:23
  Speaker 8: to have an average of a bee in every class.
• 11:26
  Speaker 8: But I was really bad at math and chemistry, and
• 11:33
  Speaker 8: I didn't make it. I wasn't allowed to play basketball.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: What she remembers most about that time was watching a
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: lot of TV and overeating and the chores. After forcing
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Christina to quit the basketball team, Isabelle handed her chores
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: that felt like ironic punishments from the Judy Bloom version
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: of Dante's Inferno. She had to bake cookies for the family,
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: but because of her weight gain, she wasn't allowed to
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: eat any. And when she dusted the house, Isabelle instructed
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: her to pick up David's basketball trophies, dust each one,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: and dust the shelf underneath. All the while, Christina felt
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: her loss acutely of basketball and the better world had promised.
• 12:17
  Speaker 8: She took something from me that I've not been able
• 12:22
  Speaker 8: to get back.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: What is that thing?
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 12:26
  Speaker 7: And I don't even know.
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: I don't.
• 12:27
  Speaker 8: When I say that out loud, it sounds ridiculous, but
• 12:31
  Speaker 8: it feels like that passion for something it dashed this
• 12:37
  Speaker 8: huge dream that I had for my life.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: Christina still wonders why why did Isabelle take away basketball?
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: The only thing that really mattered to her, that would
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: have given her a better life, But all these years
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: she's been too afraid to ask.
• 12:59
  Speaker 8: She's going to be ninety five in July. The thought
• 13:03
  Speaker 8: of talking to her about it petrifies me a little bit,
• 13:07
  Speaker 8: like there's still a part of me that is scared
• 13:10
  Speaker 8: of her, which is ridiculous.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: And what do you want?
• 13:17
  Speaker 8: I think, Yeah, I think I want to know, like
• 13:20
  Speaker 8: why she made my life so difficult, if it was
• 13:23
  Speaker 8: just to break me down, if she had some kind
• 13:28
  Speaker 8: of thing against me.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: And what do you want to hear her say?
• 13:36
  Speaker 8: I guess I want to just hear her say that
• 13:39
  Speaker 8: she just genuinely wanted me to have better grades.
• 13:44
  Speaker 7: But I know that that's just such bs.
• 13:48
  Speaker 8: For whatever reason, I've let go of a lot of
• 13:51
  Speaker 8: things that have happened, but for whatever reason, this one thing,
• 13:55
  Speaker 8: the basketball thing, not letting me play basketball. I'm having
• 13:58
  Speaker 8: such a hard time letting go of that and forgiving her.
• 14:02
  Speaker 7: I want to let it go.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: So you want to go talk to her?
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: You and you want me to come?
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: I get really meely mouthed when I'm in the same
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: room as like strong willed, scary older women. I'll tell
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: you that right now, not going to be much help.
• 14:20
  Speaker 7: So we're doing it.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: It sounds like we're doing it all right. We're gonna
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: go talk to that scary lady after the break. How
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: much mincing can a mealie mouth mince when a meei
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: mouth meets a menacing miss who writes this stuff? I
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: guess I do. Once I gave Christina my word that
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: i'd help, I approached CEO and Gimblet founder Alex Bloomberg
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: to ask if he could fly me to the British
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Columbian Interior to confront a ninety five year old woman
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: about something she may or may not have said some
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: thirty years ago, to which Alex asked, why are you
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: always standing just outside the door whenever I get out
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: of the bathroom, And I said it was a coincidence,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: although I might have pronounced it quinky dink to be playful,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: and he asked how long. This trip would take me
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: out of the office, and I said a week, and
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: he said to take longer if I needed it. So
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: I was off to Canada. Tail denos a.
• 15:31
  Speaker 6: Deploire you I speak you too.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: I meet Christina and her husband Levi at the Colonna
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Airport in British Columbia. They'd just flown in from Portland,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: and the look of trust on their faces is daunting.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: When meeting new people, especially people I'm about to help,
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: I'm more comfortable with looks of skepticism or anticipatory disappointment.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Trust was disconcerting.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: Yes, I have a reservation.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: It was an hour and a half drive to Isabelle's,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: so we made our way to the airport rental desk
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: to get a car Goldstein g old.
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: I just asked, who that is there?
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's just a we're doing a radio story.
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: So I'm just do you mind turning that.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Off and putting away?
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: If I couldn't even stand up to the car rental clerk,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: what hope did I have of helping Christina stand up
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: to Isabelle.
• 16:39
  Speaker 7: It's hot in here, I say.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: It's been well over two years since Christina's seen Isabelle.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: She's feeling anxious, so I try to keep the mood positive.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: I bet the.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: Thrift stores are really good around here. I point out
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: foreign license plates, and because we're in a foreign country,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: there are many pretty Have you guys been watching this
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: show called little Big Lies or big little lies or
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: little big Lies?
• 17:20
  Speaker 5: Well set?
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: I think so.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: Isabelle lives on the ground floor of a squat apartment
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: block mostly inhabited by seniors. We wait. When no one answers,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: we ring the bell. The door opens. I heard you
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: the first time, Isabelle says. Christina smiles in spite of herself.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: She can't help but get a kick out of Isabelle.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Isabelle peers up at us from behind her walker. Christina's husband,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Levi makes introductions. Isabel Hi, how are you doing?
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: Oh that?
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Oh? Is me reacting to Isabelle's handshake, a surprisingly powerful
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: thing that yanks me through the doorframe. Although a diminutive
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: woman with white, puffy hair and wire rim glasses, Isabelle's
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: just established herself as the alpha. Nice to meet you.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Okay, you seem to be doing great. I'm doing not
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: bad for you, know my age.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: I guess Isabelle's apartment is tidy and dim, decorated with
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: candles that haven't been lit in years. We slowly follow
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: her down a narrow hallway to her living room, where
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: she seats herself in a faded blue mechanized armchair. On
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: the drive over, Christina mentioned that Isabelle is legally blind,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: but I misremember this as Isabelle being legally deaf, so
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: I compliment her on how well she's following along. Well,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: I'm not talking very loud, and you you've been able
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: to hear everything.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: So I did see there's nothing wrong with my ears right.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: And you did not. To recover from this faux pas,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: I offer Isabelle a chance to feel my face run
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: her hands through my beard, which is something I think
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: I saw done in The Miracle Worker. If ever, you
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: want to feel my stubble or.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: I don't go running around feeling beards.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: I decide that now is as good a time as
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: any to offer around the airport treats I bought during
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: my layover. I brought some refreshments, since I don't want
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: to put Isabelle out by asking for a party tray.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: I scoot my travel socks and underwear to the side
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: of my backpack and proffer them straight from the bag,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: some chocolate covered nuts and such.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: Not right now, thank you?
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: No, okay, I'll leave him in the bag. If I've
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: learned anything from my work in the business of forcing
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: people to ask terrifying questions, it was that it's always
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: best to just get it over with. Ask the question,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: why did you ruin my life? Get the answer, and
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: head back to the hotel bar to eat the juiciest,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: fattiest tea bone steak that Gimlet Media's fourteen dollars per
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: diem allows. But staging is everything I need to be
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: off hand, subtle. Do you, Christina, do you have anything
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: that you you want to ask about? Or Christina looks
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: down at her hands and tightens her lips. Of course
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: I understand her hesitation. Isabelle is even more intimidating in
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: person than Christina made her out, and nothing about being
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: here can possibly feel much like coming home. The walls
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: and shelves are loaded with photos of Isabelle's children, grandchildren,
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: and great grandchildren, but there isn't a single photo anywhere
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: of her only foster child, Christina. To break the silence,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: I asked Isabelle why she originally took Christina into her
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: home in the first place.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: One of my children left a child for me to raise,
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: my grandson. This was David. Yeah, so I thought life
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: was just my husband and I. We were both older.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: It would be kind of very dull for him. So
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: I thought that having someone else around the house would
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: make it a little more homey for him. But I
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: hadn't chosen Christina. Christina was brought to me, and we're
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: just She was just there, this wild looking thing, seeing
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: a little bit of training to live in a home.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: So obviously she hadn't been brought up with anything. I
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: just thought any child living under my roof had to
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: be taught.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Something, meaning like what kind of things like you mean,
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: normal like rules and.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Well rules, yeah, the rule. I don't think that our
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: rules were terribly strict.
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: Really, I mean I felt like they were strict.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: Well maybe you thought so, that most kids do, but
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: they were the same rules my kids had.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: Christina hesitates, you can see it's hard for her to
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: talk back to Isabelle even now.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: But then she says, but David didn't have rules, No,
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: he didn't need any. He is the most perfect person
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: I've ever raised.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Christina, another person she happened to have raised is seated
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: a couple feet away from her. Christina stares ahead blankly,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: not saying anything. So I press Isabelle, well, you must
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: have done something wrong. I mean, it's only.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: Very little, or you'd be surprised how perfect he was.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Was that hard though, being like side by side with
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: someone who.
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: Is just no.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: I think it was good for her.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: Christina, that is that how you feel?
• 23:14
  Speaker 7: It was hard? Yeah, it was really hard.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: Something else that's been hard is finding the courage to
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: ask the question that brought her here, but Christina gives
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: it a shot after the break. Something else that's been
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: hard is finding the courage to ask the question that
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: brought her here. Christina gives it a shot, but after
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: some throat clearing again, she goes silent.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Go ahead, ask.
• 23:53
  Speaker 8: I think the one thing that I have kind of
• 23:59
  Speaker 8: always wondered is do you remember I think it was
• 24:04
  Speaker 8: in tenth grade and I had been playing basketball and
• 24:11
  Speaker 8: you told me that I had to get my grades
• 24:13
  Speaker 8: up where I couldn't play basketball anymore.
• 24:16
  Speaker 7: Do you remember that?
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: No?
• 24:22
  Speaker 7: Okay, so I.
• 24:23
  Speaker 8: Didn't get my grades up and I had to quit
• 24:26
  Speaker 8: the team.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: I don't remember that at all. I don't know. I still.
• 24:34
  Speaker 7: It was devastating for me.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Why did you get your grades up there?
• 24:43
  Speaker 8: Yeah?
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: I asked Christina if she could explain to Isabelle why
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: losing basketball hurt so much?
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: No, without crying.
• 24:57
  Speaker 7: I felt like.
• 24:59
  Speaker 8: It was like the one thing that I was really
• 25:01
  Speaker 8: good at.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Are you surprised to hear Christina talk about how much
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: she loved basketball?
• 25:11
  Speaker 8: Like?
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Was that something that you knew back then?
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: I didn't know.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: No, did Christina? Did you ever express it?
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: I don't think she did. I don't think so. No,
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: I don't think you did. I think the.
• 25:27
  Speaker 8: Reason why, like it still affects me now, it is
• 25:32
  Speaker 8: because I didn't fight for it, and.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: How could she have. She never felt like she had
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: the right to stop her feet, to slam the bedroom door,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: in so many words, to act like someone's kid. I
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: thought that maybe if I could get Isabelle to put
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: herself in Christina's shoes, it might help her understand. Was
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: there anything that you can think of that's comparable from
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: your own life, Isabelle, Like something that you really felt
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: very passionate about, like the thing that you really that
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: was your great love?
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Not really. I always wanted to go to school more
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: than I did. I really wanted a good education, which
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: of the country you weren't able to get.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: Her father was a rancher, Isabelle says, and her mom
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: died when she was little, so her dad raised the
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: kids by himself, and Isabelle, being the eldest, had a
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: lot of responsibility.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: I used to miss school every year when I got
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: us to be a certain age and had to herd cattle.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: So I'd missed about two months or a month of
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: school every year when I was old enough to do this.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: But I was first in my class from the day
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: I started till the day I finished. I was never
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: anything but first in my class.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Was that typical that a lot of kids in the
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: class have to miss?
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: No, just me and well, we were brought up by
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: our dad. Men bring up children differently than women.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and what ways? How do you mean?
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: I mean? My dad didn't teach me to ride horseback.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: He just threw me on a horse and told me
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: to go. You know, a woman wouldn't do that. I
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: don't think, not likely. My father was quite fond of me.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: Actually, Yeah, how far did you go in school?
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: Just? Grade nine? I took grade nine By correspondence.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: So you didn't you never ended up getting the high
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: school degree.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: No. Yeah, school was an important thing to me because
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: I felt that's how you'd make your living.
• 27:46
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: But I remember when I was through school, my stepmother
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: looking in the paper and she found a dish washing
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: job for me. She thought that I was capable of
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: his washing dishes in some restaurant. I felt very insulted.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: It always surprised me when kids didn't want to get
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: all the education they possibly could.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Isabelle motions towards Christina.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: There's only so far you could go on basketball. I
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: always felt your education was more important. But as a kid,
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: sometimes you know, you don't see that. I knew. I
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: tried to teach her to be self sufficient because I
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: knew that she'd only have herself to depend upon.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: Isabelle wanted to give Christina something she never got herself,
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: a good education, But by depriving Christina basketball, Isabelle took
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: away just that. At the time, though she didn't know it.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: What Isabelle did know was that when Christina showed up
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: at her door thirty years ago, she was already in
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: her sixties. Isabelle was old, and if she were to die,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Christina would be left all alone. She'd only become a
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: foster child because no one in her extended family had
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: stepped up to take her in. She had no one else.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: What did you know about Christina's childhood before she met you?
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: Not much of anything that I can remember. Like, her
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: mother was mentally ill. I guess he knows that. And
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: I lost my mother when I was five, and my
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: father eventually had a nervous breakdown, so I knew what
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: it was like to live with a mentally challenged person.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: Oh what was it like?
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: Terrible? It was horrible. You didn't know if someone was
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: going to kill you today or tomorrow, or what the
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: heck was going to happen.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: That's not an exaggeration. You're really were.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: No, it's not an exaggeration. I remember taking my little
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: brother and sister outside and trying to hide them. He
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: was left with five little children, Yeah, and he was
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: terrified that they were going to take the kids away
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: from him. I used to sit by his bed and
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: hold his hand, and one day he said to me,
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: isabel why do you keep holding my hand? And in
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: my own way, I was trying to let him know
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: that we all loved him.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Isabelle eventually placed her father in a mental hospital.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: I admitted him.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Wow, and you were how old at that time?
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: I was about fourteen.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's a big burden.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah it was. And I thought, here, I am fourteen,
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: What the hell am I doing here?
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: All the while, as Isabelle talks, Christina, seated in an
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: armchair beside her, listens quietly, her hands gripping the armrest.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: Without looking at Isabelle, she makes her presence known.
• 31:05
  Speaker 8: I have many memories of visiting my mom in the
• 31:08
  Speaker 8: mental hospital when I was young, like seven, eight nine,
• 31:12
  Speaker 8: kind of age ten.
• 31:15
  Speaker 10: It's weird.
• 31:16
  Speaker 7: It's a really weird experience.
• 31:17
  Speaker 8: To go knowing that the other people are mentally unstable.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: And you can't predict what they're going to do.
• 31:24
  Speaker 8: Yeah, and my mom was, you know, kind of a
• 31:26
  Speaker 8: zombie because of all the medication, and obviously it was
• 31:30
  Speaker 8: like sad and upset that she had to be there
• 31:34
  Speaker 8: and wasn't with me.
• 31:39
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: It was an awful place.
• 31:42
  Speaker 8: It makes you grow up way too fast.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. I mean I was never a kid
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: until I got married and had my own kids, and
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: then I had a lot of fun raising my own children. Yeah.
• 31:53
  Speaker 8: I think that's why I was a nanny because I
• 31:56
  Speaker 8: could be around kids and have a childhood with all.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: These other children. Yeah, that's what I what I did.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: I grew up with my own children. That's what was
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: my childhood. Yeah, you know, I play with my children
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: just like I was one of them.
• 32:11
  Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, I did the same thing.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: One day, one of the neighbors looked at me, one
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: of the little girls, and she's says, how old are you?
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: These were stories that neither Christina nor Isabelle had ever
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: told each other. Watching them connect like this, it feels
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: like a good time to bring the subject back to basketball.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: How much over the past thirty years, Christina's fretted over
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: Isabel's decision. Knowing this now, I ask Isabelle, would you
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: have done things differently?
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: Oh? I wished I had a known more about it
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: at the time, But I mean, I still have no
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: regrets about it.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: It's as though Isabelle just doesn't understand what the word
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: regret means. So I offer a working definition. If we
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: were to set off in a time machine where we
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: could return to that time at Christina.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: Say, I know what you're saying, but frankly, I don't
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: know what i'd do. You know. I really don't. It
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: would depend on what kind of a mood I'm.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: In, if you're in the mood that you're in right now, I.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: Really have no idea. I could give you a lot
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: of BS and tell you how good I would have been,
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: but it wouldn't be the truth.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: I think like a lot of people would just give
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: Christina the BS.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't do that. I usually tell the truth.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: Like most I can lie upwards of ten thousand times
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: a day. It helps ease the friction of getting through life.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: People ask how I am, and I say fine, Does
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: this jumpsuit make my ass look fat? And I say no?
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: And so on, lying all the day long until bedtime,
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: at which point I'm not sure the lying stops. I
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: can probably lie in my dreams. In other words, I
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: hold lying to be the greatest gift God gave to man.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: But even with all of our lies and best intentions,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: we still can't escape hurting one another. I don't think
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: Isabelle is a cruel woman, but I do think she
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: knows that hurting people and being hurt is the price
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: one pays for being human.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: There is nothing out of the ordinary in our lives,
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: but just you know, even ordinary lives are could upsetting.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it's a decision that was made when she was younger.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: It wasn't the right one, but how many wrong decisions
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: are made as we go along. Regretting something is a
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: waste of time. You move on, find something else to
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: be passionate about.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: In spite of their similar childhoods, Isabelle and Christina see
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: the world so differently. Christina is a dreamer, and for her,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: the best possible world is the one that's always just
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: out of reach. But for Isabelle, it's not about pursuing
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: the best possible world at all. It's about making the
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: best of this world, the one you're stuck in, and
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: evidently with the people you're stuck with.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't look after her, if you know. If I
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: didn't care about it, it would have been different, I think,
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: you know. But I was interested in what she did
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: and how she progressed, and wanted her to do well
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: at school and do well in everything, and I was
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: very proud of her when she did. She was with
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: us a long time. Couldn't get rid of her. Just kidding.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Isabelle pauses, and then she says, appraisingly, she deserves a
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: good life.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: I do have one good and I think it's better
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: because she had some stability in it, which I feel
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: she got in my own.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: I'll get on that side. We say our goodbyes and
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: head to the car. Outside Isabelle's, the parking lot has
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: grown dark. Thank you. Yeah. As we get into the
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: rental car, Christina lets out a sigh. Well, so, how
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: did how did you feel that about that?
• 36:51
  Speaker 8: M hmm. It was just really intense and there's a
• 36:56
  Speaker 8: lot of things that she said that were like that
• 36:59
  Speaker 8: were very hurtful to me. It's like she affected me tonight,
• 37:05
  Speaker 8: but not in the way that she used to. I
• 37:09
  Speaker 8: didn't get I didn't get the fuzzy teddy bear cuddly.
• 37:15
  Speaker 7: Thing, and that's okay that I didn't get that. But
• 37:19
  Speaker 7: what I got was her and.
• 37:22
  Speaker 8: It wasn't everything I needed.
• 37:26
  Speaker 7: But I feel like.
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: That's how she shows love.
• 37:33
  Speaker 8: And it's not with hugs, and it's not with I
• 37:35
  Speaker 8: love yous, and it's not with.
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: Praise necessarily either.
• 37:41
  Speaker 8: It's in a way that I understand now, whereas before
• 37:44
  Speaker 8: I just felt like she just didn't even like me,
• 37:48
  Speaker 8: But now I can see that she loves me in
• 37:51
  Speaker 8: her way and in the best way that she knows how.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: In the end, it seems like this is why Christina
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: came here, not to find out why Isabelle made her
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: stop playing basketball, but to find out whether Isabelle loved her, And,
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: in her tough, straight shooting, slightly scary way, it's pretty
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: clear she does. Do you know why I want to
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: go to Scotta Park? No, it's a surprise. Oh, it's
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: not a big surprise. The next morning, before heading home,
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: I take Christina and her husband Levi out to a
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: nearby park. I have a paper bag I've been carrying
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: with me since Brooklyn. It's a good thing you're wearing
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: running shoes. When the anticipation reaches its zenith, I revealed
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: to Christina and Levi what's in the bag of basketball,
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: which I think they'd sort of guessed since we were
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: now standing by a basketball court and I was dribbling
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: a spherical paper bag. I turned to LEVI, have you
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: ever seen seen to play basketball before?
• 39:12
  Speaker 10: Maybe not?
• 39:13
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I don't think we've ever played.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: Christina says she hasn't played in over ten years. She
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: doesn't even watch basketball on TV anymore. I hold out
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: the ball and Christina looks at it. Then She looks
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: at Levi and then she takes it from my hands.
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: Check check, Oh rusty.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: But when she gets going, it seems to come back
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: to her.
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: Oh, behind the back, behind the back, behind the back again.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: Oh, it goes.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: Trash talking, calling her own shots, driving hard to the basket.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: There was a different sign to Christina that was coming
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: out on the court. It happened suddenly and easily.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: You're going to get that.
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: I think it's too nothing at this point. I don't
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: think I've scored it.
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: Have I.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: The best basketball players are said to have an almost
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: supernatural ability to see a little head, to anticipate what
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: will happen next. But Christina and Levi aren't that good,
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: and so they play like a couple of kids for
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: whom the future doesn't matter or the past, And in
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: that space between, it seems like a pretty good life.
• 40:28
  Speaker 9: Okay, I love you.
• 41:05
  Speaker 5: Now that the furniture's rich, I do it's goodwill home.
• 41:14
  Speaker 5: Now that the last month's rent is scheming with the
• 41:19
  Speaker 5: damage to poss take this moment to desd.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: If we met and we.
• 41:27
  Speaker 5: Two, we felt around for far from things that accidentally.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: Hello, Christina, Hi, Hi, it's Jonathan, Hi.
• 41:45
  Speaker 7: Jonathan How are you.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: I'm good, How are you good?
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: Thanks?
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: Where are you in bc oh?
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: No, in Portland?
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: In Portland? Right, Yes, after we met, I went to
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: see I went to visit a cousin of mine who
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: lives in BC oh.
• 42:01
  Speaker 7: Nice.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: It's very generous of you to say that. So this
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: story came out by god eight years.
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: Ago, yeah, almost nine, I think.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: Does it feel that long ago?
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: It feels simultaneously that long ago and maybe longer.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this might be a big question. But what's changed
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: for you since then?
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: I mean outwardly, I think not a ton.
• 42:37
  Speaker 5: Well.
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: I mean Isabelle died.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you would mention. I was sorry to hear that.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: But you had also said that you saw her again.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: I did.
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I think my foster brother called and said that
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: she was in the hospital and not doing well. And
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: she I think was ninety five at this point, okay,
• 42:56
  Speaker 4: And so it was kind of like, if you want
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: to say goodbye, now is your time?
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: Huh?
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: And so I chose to go.
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: And she was very kind and very grateful that I went.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you remember what you talked about with Isabelle
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: on that last visit? Was it just small talk?
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 43:14
  Speaker 7: It was pretty pretty surface.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: Level, so she was. There was no there was no
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: like deathbed regret, not at all. I mean, it's not surprising.
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: I was going to say, you can't be shocked at that.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Have you re listened to the episode.
• 43:31
  Speaker 4: A couple of times?
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: Really? Yeah?
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: And I think that listening back to it kind of
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: helped me look at it from a different perspective. I
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: think with Isabelle, I blamed her for ruining my life
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: for a lot of years, and in order for me
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: to move forward, I needed to let go of that
• 43:52
  Speaker 4: you know, old kind of story.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: When you talk about like letting go of a particular story,
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: was the story that that had you been able to
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: continue with basketball, your life would have been different.
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: I think. I think it's a really dangerous thing to
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: to to guess what our life would have or could
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: have been like had this thing happened or not happened,
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: And that kind of steals the joy from the present moment.
• 44:25
  Speaker 4: And I just made a decision that I was done
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: letting my past define me or steal my joy essentially,
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: And that sounds very like I don't know, wou.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: Wu or no. I mean it's not easy to do.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: Was there any moment of I don't know, maybe it's
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: hard to think about it in this way, but was
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: like there a moment of illumination where it just clicked.
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: After that.
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: Interview with her, I just was kind of like, Oh,
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: I'm trying to get blood from a stone and that's
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: just never going to happen.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's well put. I wonder though, if if the
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: something like that, you just needed to go through that
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: to play it out, to see that, you know, and
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: to have like to have witnesses.
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I think that was very powerful and
• 45:20
  Speaker 4: very healing. One thing that was very interesting for me
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: was after our interview Levi, I got really emotional and
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: was like, I can't imagine, like how hard that was
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: for you. And I think it just kind of gave
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: him a little bit more of a perspective of what
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: I went through and maybe a bit more compassion for
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: how sometimes I can be a little emotional or overreact
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: to certain things or be you know, overly sensitive.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and wait, there was another there was something else.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: So your last name is Whismer, and Levi's last name
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: is Buckingham, and you've officially combined Portmanteaud your names into Whizzingham.
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: So it's whizzing ham. It's like it's like it gives
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: you the feeling of, if I may be so bold,
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: like a pig that has attained like some kind of
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: flight velocity. It's just whizzing by. I think you're ahead
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: of the curve with this, just like you were with
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: with disc golf.
• 46:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: I think more couples are going to be doing this.
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: Well. We actually have friends who did the same thing,
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: and so I was the one that came up with
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: their name.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: You're the guru of it. Yeah, Well, it was just
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: nice to hear your voice and to catch up. Yeah,
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: you too, and give warm regards to Levi.
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: I will thank you so much.
• 46:55
  Speaker 10: Okay, take care, Christina.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: Thanks to everyone who originally put this episode together. We'll
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: be back with another update in two weeks. And if
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: you want no presh, you can sign up for our
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: free newsletter. It's free at patreon dot com slash Heavyweight.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: Tell everybody how great it is. Go ahead, Stevie, Yeah,
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: can you tell everybody about how wonderful this newsletter is.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: It's pretty wonderful, and boys, it's full of fun. We
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: have photographs of Christina and her dogs. Recommendations for all
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: kinds of things that myself and the staff are enjoying. Stevie,
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: what's something that you're enjoying these days.
• 47:50
  Speaker 4: I'm enjoying this.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: You know what, spoiler alert. You got to sign up
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: for the newsletter to find out all kinds of cool stuff.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: Just sign up for the free newsletter. Thank you very much.
• 48:09
  Speaker 8: They can do one thing, a thing to do