Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #466 I'll Do Better Tomorrow

Transcript

#466 I'll Do Better Tomorrow · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Now, sometimes as a parent, you can do the very
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: best you can and it just doesn't quite work. It
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: doesn't quite get you where you want to go.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: and dad.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Hello, this is doctor Justin Coulson. I'm the founder of
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Happy Families dot com dot au and the author of
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: all those books about how to make your family happy.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: I'm here with Kylie, my wife and mum to our
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: six kids. Well, when I say I'm here with Kylie,
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: the saga continues. Kylie. I had a conversation with somebody
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: the other day unexpectedly, and it kind of was a
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: little bit disconcerting. They said, hey, Justin, it's nice to
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: meet you. They recognized me, and I was having a
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: short chat with them and I said, oh, how do
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: you know me? And they said, oh, I followed you
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: on Facebook and Bendy webinars and I love I love
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: your podcasts. I said, oh, that's great, and then she said,
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: so how's the move going. I was like, sometimes I
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: think we might say a little bit too much on
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: this podcast. I'm lonely, and you're still there, and I'm
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: still here, and the house is still for sale. Well
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: it's only been for sale for a week, so let's
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: not get too carried away here. But there you are.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: You're on the coast, and today's Friday, end of the week,
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: which means we do get to hang out for the weekend,
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: hanging for that. He's surviving.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: I am just taking it one day at a.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Time, yeah, one hour at a time, one minute of
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: time now and again. It's really, really, really rough. Anyway,
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: This is not a pity party for us, and I'd
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: rather be in our situation than the situation. I read
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: something about Ukraine the other day on one of the
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: ABC news sites and it just hit me so hard.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Somebody was saying that the whole world is with us,
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: but nobody is beside us, and I thought, my goodness,
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: it must be so hard for them. So I'll take
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: our I'll take our move and our minor separation as
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: something that's pretty easy to deal with compared to what
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: some people in other parts of the world are going through.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: I have that thought. Most days. I am blown away
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: with just the struggles and difficulties that are everywhere.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so much speaking of struggles and difficulties. Every Friday,
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: we get to share a little bit about either the
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: ones that we overcome or the ones that we didn't
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: do so well with. Every Friday, the conversation on the
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: podcast is called I'll Do Better Tomorrow. Our main game here.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: The focus is recognizing that sometimes family life is tricky
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: and we sometimes need a little bit of guidance to
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: get through things. So I'll Do Better Tomorrow is where
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: we look at what happened over the past week and
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: work out how we can do things better tomorrow. Kylie,
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: what has really struck you in terms of your parenting
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: and you're involvement with our kids this week? As you
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: consider what it is to do better tomorrow, how would
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: you like things to be better over the weekend or
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: next week based on where you've learned this week.
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: The girls started a new school at the beginning of
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: term and Miss seven is still you know, she's having
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: good days and she's having bad days as she navigates
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: this whole new process of new friends and new teachers
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: and new structures and routines, and she's.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Doing it all while she's living in a place that's
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: not ours. In fact, We've had to move airbnbs a
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: couple of times because of other people that have booked things,
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: and we didn't expect to be in this situation so long.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and so she's been doing great, but she definitely
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: every couple of days we have a little bit of
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: a meltdown and we don't want to go to school
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: and we don't feel like we've got any friends, and
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: getting out the door on time in the mornings can
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: be really, really tricky, and over the last few weeks,
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: I've just decided to take the pressure off completely, and
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: so often I just explained to her that she doesn't
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: have to go to school right now. There is an
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: acknowledgment that she will go to school or that she
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: owned it's just she doesn't have to do it right now,
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: but that we have to actually get her big sister
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: to school on time. So she could just get into
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: the car in her pajamas, that's fine, and we drive
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: off to school. Well, I put her uniform in her bag,
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: and more times than not, I'll just put some music
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: on and she start singing along with us, and the
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: next thing I know, she's getting dressed all by herself.
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: And I found that that has just made my morning
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: so much better by just kind of allowing her to
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: have her little meltdown and acknowledging that what she wants
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: is to not go to school. She doesn't have to
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: go right now, but we've just got to get Lily
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: to school. But the other day I thought I had
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: it in the bag. She wanted to join the chess club. Right,
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: she's seven, let's just put this in perspective seven. But
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: she wanted to join the chess club. And so I
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: had so much weight with this chess club that on
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: Tuesday night, I said to her, if you don't go
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: to sleep, you're going to wake up really tired and
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: cranky because you've got to be to school early for chess.
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: She was so exc literally I think her head hit
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: the pillow and she was out in about two minutes flat.
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: And I thought, I've got this. I was so excited. Well,
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: the next morning, she woke up an absolute refusal. Did
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: not want to go to school, did not want to
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: go to chess club, did not want to do anything.
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: How did I get it so wrong?
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: What was the deal?
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: I think that she was scared. She didn't obviously acknowledge that,
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: but I think that she was scared about this new situation,
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: so did she go? Well, I took the pressure off again.
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: I said, it's okay, we don't have to go to
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: chess club, but let's get dressed for school, which she did,
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: and we got to school late. So chess club starts
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: at seven forty five in the morning. I didn't get
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: to school till quarter past eight. But because there was
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: a few minutes before the school, boll was going to go.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: I said, we're here a little bit early. Do you
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: want to go and just check out chess club? Mom
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: will come with you, And she kind of looked at
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: me and she said okay. So we walked in very late.
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: She was one of eight children and she was the
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: youngest by far. And we sat down and she's listening
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: to all of these rules. My head is boggling as
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to follow all of these different rules for
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: all of these different pieces on the board.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're a checkers player, aren't you.
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, nice colors is way okay. But by the end
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: of the five or so minutes that we sat there
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: with instruction, the teacher at the front of the room said,
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: all right, we're going to play a game. Now. We're
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: going to start our competition, and Emily was right in
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: there and I said, well, I might see you this
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: afternoon and she said, all right, mom, see you later.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: It was just I think that sometimes we kind of
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: think that we have to do things a certain way,
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: and for whatever reason, Emily was feeling a little bit
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: of anxiety around going to chess, and I just kind
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: of took the pressure off. Didn't really matter if we
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: got there on time or not. Yes, I'm paying for it,
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: and yes it would be better if she was there
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: at the beginning of the class. But for something so
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: new and for someone so young, giving her just the
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: space to do it at a pace that works for
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: her meant that I didn't actually end up having to
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: have any stress with her. We just did it a
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: bit later.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: Fascinating now. Now, of course, this is some great advice
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: for parents who have got the flexibility to be able
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: to be a little bit late or to not have
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: to rush off to work or anything like that. But
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: the take home message that I'm hearing, regardless of your circumstances,
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: really is that if you take the pressure off and
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: just get them to do the next thing and have
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: that flexibility, like let's just jump in the car and
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: we'll sing some songs and see how you're feeling as
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: we're driving along. And you've got the uniform there, you
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: can get changed in the car park. I mean the
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: little kids, right, so nobody really cares if they're getting
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: changed in the car park before they run into school.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: It takes, as you said, the pressure off and you
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: get to keep things moving forward. Up next in I'll
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: Do Better Tomorrow, The latest insight for the parenting expert
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: who may or may not be nailing it just now.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: It's their Happy Families Podcasts.
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: Are Screens Creating tension at home betweens, teens and Screens
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: is a webinar to guide family to healthy, safe superscreen solutions.
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: Bye today at happy families dot com dot are you
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: slash shop?
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: poor parent who just wants answers. Now I'm wondering, did
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: you nail it?
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: No? No, it was a complete failure, total and failure.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: In fact, this is the sort of thing that's been
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: building for a little while. And there's a fair bit
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: of disclosure here, and I want to be very very
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: sensitive because it doesn't just involve me, it involves one
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: of our kids. But I want to share this purely
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: because every parent will go through it one way or
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: another at some point, and for me, I'm going through
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: it with one of the kids at the moment, and
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: it's painful. And even when you're an expert, and even
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: when you've done all this stuff, written the books, gotten
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: the PhD, raised the kids, the whole lot, sometimes your
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: relationships are tricky no matter what. And we've got one
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: child at the moment, she's living with me while while
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: she works. She's an adult now, she's nineteen years old,
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: and it just seems that I can't put right. I
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: cannot say the right thing, I can't ask any questions.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: I literally everything that I do is wrong. Everything that
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: I do is a mistake. I'm right now the adult
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: that knows nothing, while the nineteen year old knows everything.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: And I know that it's actually not really about me.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: I know that it's actually about her and she needs
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: to do a bit more growing and a bit more developing,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: a bit more maturing. But I'll tell you what, as
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: a parent, as you watch your relationship with a child
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: that you absolutely love slowly but surely implode like a
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: slow motion grenade going off. It's just so devastating. It
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: so hard, especially when you know what to do, and
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: yet no matter what you try to do, to do
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: the stuff that you know you should do, it doesn't work.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: So I'm trying to spend time trying to build connection,
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: trying to ask good questions, try to be present, and
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: all that stuff. It's not working. But whenever I start
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: to intervene or make a suggestion, worst dad ever, worst
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: dad in the world. And I'm not saying this to
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: demonize her, because this is just where she is right now.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: But I think what it really illustrates is that sometimes
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: as a parent, you can do the very best you
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: can and it just doesn't quite work. It doesn't quite
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: get you where you want to go. Anyway, the other day,
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: she was on her way back from the shops, So
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: bear in mind, nineteen should be responsible, should be independent,
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: should be able to take care of things on our own. Needa,
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: some toilet paper was cranky because I hadn't bought any
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: toilet paper at the shops. Like I'm at the moment
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: I'm writing you, remember that conversation we had Kylie a
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: couple of weeks ago about I'm writing like four books
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: at the moment that conversation. Yeah, so I'm in the office.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: I've given up cycling, I'm not surfing, I'm not doing
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: anything for me. I'm in the office.
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: Clearly, you've given up to doing a grocery shop as well.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: I have given up grocery shopping. I'm in the office
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: between five and five fifteen every morning, and I'm working
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: until I don't know, six o'clock most nights, seven o'clock
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: some nights, and if i'm doing webinars or Q and
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: as for our Happy Families membership, I'm in the office
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: until late thirty nine o'clock at night. I mean, I'm
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: just working overtime. And she was cranky because I hadn't
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: gone done the shop. But when she went to the
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: shops to buy the toilet paper, she didn't buy anything else.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, nineteen, she's got a brain, didn't buy anything else.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: And I've had this frosty fruit craving for the last
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: few weeks. I've been eating far too many frosty fruits,
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: as you know, hashtag not sponsored by the way, I've
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: just got a thing at the moment, I like the
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: I'm into the frosty fruits. And I called her as
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: I took a quick break from work and said, Hey,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: while you're at the shops, could you grab me a
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: packet of frosty fruits please? And I got in trouble
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: because she was actually three minutes out of the shops.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: She was on her way home, and that meant she
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: had to turn around and go back and get frosty fruits.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: And I hadn't paid it for the toilet paper, and
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: am I going to pay it for the frosty fruits?
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Like it was a really big deal, oh, Kylie. And
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: I didn't respond well. I didn't risk well at all,
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Like I'm still cooking her meals even though I'm working
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: forty three hours a day kind of thing, like I'm
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: still cooking her meals and all that sort of stuff,
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: and I don't want to turn this into a winge. Anyway,
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: it didn't go well, and then Kylie I did something.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: When she got home. I walked over to her and
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: I apologized for not being more thoughtful and for not
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: being more patient and for all the things that I
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: do wrong as a dad, and I let her know
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: that I love her and that even though I'm clumsy,
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: and even though I make mistakes, and even though I
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: get it wrong in her eyes, I'm absolutely committed to
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: doing the very best that I can for her, and
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: that she'll never know the depths of my love for
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: her what she means to me. And just for a minute,
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: I saw this little girl again, you know, that little
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: cute kid that we used to look at and completely
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: fall in love with, the little girl who held our
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: heart in her hands. And I just saw this kid,
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: just this little lost girl, and realized she might be nineteen,
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: but her world's been turned upside down. She had some
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: big plans for this year, and now she's questioning those
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: plans in significant ways. She's got a family who's moving away,
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: she's got a job that's gone from permanent to casual,
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: and she's not quite sure what she wants to do
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: with her future. Now everything's up in the air. And
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: now she's got a dad who's giving her a hard
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: time because she's into him for a couple of bucks
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: for some toilet paper. And as I looked at her,
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: and as I told her what she meant to me,
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: I just realized that there's some stuff that matters and
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: some stuff that doesn't, and paying for toilet paper. Worrying
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: about cooking a meal or groceries not that big a
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: deal compared to getting this relationship right. So my I'll
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: do better tomorrow is actually a confession. I'm a parenting
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: expert who's got a relationship that's falling apart, or at
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: least when I say that, it's not where I want
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: it to be. It's not strong like it used to be,
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: and I've got some homework. I've got some real makeup
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: work to do to get it back where it needs
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: to be.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: I had my own trip down memory lane just yesterday
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: with this same daughter and just remembering her doing her
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: cross country run as a lengthy seven year old who
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: was all legs, and just feeling exactly the same things,
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: remembering what it was like to be, you know, eighteen nineteen,
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: and knowing that I'm now an adult, but I really
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: still have no idea what it means to be an
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: adult and what I want to do with my life,
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: and you know where I want to be and how
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: I want to do life. And it just filled me
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: with all of the same feelings that you have shared here.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: We just struggle, like we know what we want to do,
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: we know how we want the relationship to be, but
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: we also get caught up in that whole you should
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: know better and I've taught you better, and why aren't
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: you self sufficient? And why can't you do this? We
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: get caught up in that, and I don't know, Kylie, I.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: Think that part of it too is that we have feelings.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: Well with that's true, we do.
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: You know, our feeling matter and with our kids inexperience
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: and immaturity. So often some of the things that they
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: do and say are painful. They really really hurt us,
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: and it takes so much effort for us, as the
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: bigger person in the relationship to take a step back
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: and be able to take the perspective of them and
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: recognize that they're learning.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: Well, they've still got their old plates on, even if
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: they're grown up in nineteen. I'll take our message today
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: really for you, Kylie, is to give the kids some
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: space and some breathing room and take them to school
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: and their armies. They can get changed in the car park.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: For me, it's really about taking a step back and
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: seeing them as people who are trying to figure life
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: out at whatever age, and having that little extra bit
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: of compassion, that little extra bit of patience, that little
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: extra bit of perspective to help them. We really hope
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: that today's podcast has been helpful for you in whatever
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: challenges you're facing as a family. The Happy Families podcast
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media and Craig
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Bruce is our executive producer. If you'd like more info
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: about making your family happy up, especially if you're raising
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: boys and wants to know how in the world to
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: navigate the progress from boyhood to manhood, we have got
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: the ultimate ultimate boys summit, Bringing Up Boys. All the
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: details are at happy families dot com dot au. Details
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: available right now.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Be quick