Latest / The Breakfast Club / INTERVIEW: Michael Eric Dyson Compares Kamala To Drake, Talks Intellectual Rappers, Fighting For The Vote + More

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INTERVIEW: Michael Eric Dyson Compares Kamala To Drake, Talks Intellectual Rappers, Fighting For The Vote + More · The Breakfast Club

0:00
Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning.
0:02
Speaker 2: Breakfast Club Morning, everybody is dej Envy, Jess hilarious, Charlamagne
0:08
Speaker 2: the guy we are the Breakfast Club, Lon Laros of
0:11
Speaker 2: course filling in for Jess. And we got a special
0:13
Speaker 2: guest in the building, indeed, the brother Michael Eric Dison.
0:15
Speaker 1: Keeping light skin, Brothers alive. How are you feeling, brother man,
0:19
Speaker 1: I'm feeling like we're still riding with Drake, so let's
0:22
Speaker 1: hang on as long.
0:23
Speaker 3: As we can.
0:26
Speaker 4: Michael Davey got a new book I called represent the
0:29
Speaker 4: Unfinished Fight for the Vote.
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Speaker 1: Yes, sir, yes, sir man, you know, look, thank the
0:36
Speaker 1: publishing gods. I was like, it's pretty good timing for
0:39
Speaker 1: what we're doing. My co author Mark Favreau, brilliant writer
0:42
Speaker 1: and gifted historian, and we wanted to talk about in
0:45
Speaker 1: issues that's central to what we're dealing with here in
0:48
Speaker 1: America today, and that's voting and why people should vote,
0:51
Speaker 1: how they fought forward over time and what it means
0:55
Speaker 1: to us today.
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Speaker 4: And people think voter suppression might be new, like they've
0:58
Speaker 4: seen January sixth and all these other recent incidents that
1:02
Speaker 4: have tried to suppress the vote. But this book discusses
1:05
Speaker 4: other attempts to suppress the vote, and yeah, to vote
1:08
Speaker 4: that go way back. Can you talk about that.
1:09
Speaker 1: Yes, sir, great, great point. Let's just talk about your state,
1:13
Speaker 1: South Carolina in the eighteen I think it was seventy
1:17
Speaker 1: six election where they were deliberately trying to suppress the
1:22
Speaker 1: black vote, right, and these were the Democrats who were
1:27
Speaker 1: in power, who were trying to maintain that power. And
1:30
Speaker 1: back then it was the Democrats who were the party
1:32
Speaker 1: of the racists, and what we subsequently knew was Dixiocrats.
1:36
Speaker 1: So they invented this militia called the Red Shirts, and
1:39
Speaker 1: they were riding rough shot over black people, doing illegal
1:43
Speaker 1: stuff to suppress the vote, you know, scaring them, intimidating them.
1:47
Speaker 1: And they said, I want to read this to you
1:49
Speaker 1: because this is rather remarkable. I don't want bore people,
1:52
Speaker 1: but this is what a copy of their plan was
1:55
Speaker 1: circulated over state. This is what it says. Every Democrat
1:58
Speaker 1: must feel honored by excuse me, to control the vote
2:02
Speaker 1: at least one negro. Never threaten a man individually. If
2:05
Speaker 1: he deserves to be threatened, the necessities of the times
2:08
Speaker 1: required that he should die. A dead radical is very
2:11
Speaker 1: harmless a threatened radical is often troublesome, sometimes dangerous, and
2:16
Speaker 1: always vindictive. So they were doing their thing, and then
2:21
Speaker 1: the Democratic candidate for governor, Wade Hampton, had these people
2:25
Speaker 1: out in force, and they had rifle clubs aimed at
2:28
Speaker 1: trying to suppress the Black vote. So January sixth did
2:31
Speaker 1: not start it. It's part and parcel of what we
2:34
Speaker 1: have done as a government in America. And unbeknownst to
2:37
Speaker 1: a lot of people, January six ain't no outlier unless
2:41
Speaker 1: you say the outlining and not telling the truth about
2:43
Speaker 1: what's going on in American politics.
2:45
Speaker 2: I gotta ask, you know, what do you think about
2:48
Speaker 2: what's going on today with the race? Of course, the
2:50
Speaker 2: stuff from the beginning. We haven't seen you in a while, right,
2:52
Speaker 2: So of course, Joe Biden, you know we've been up here.
2:56
Speaker 2: I would think for like the last year and a half,
2:58
Speaker 2: A says something's not right, he's not right.
3:00
Speaker 3: Uh.
3:01
Speaker 2: They gave us a lot of flak for it. Then
3:02
Speaker 2: they came back and said, you're absolutely positively right.
3:04
Speaker 4: I didn't just say you wasn't not right. I said
3:06
Speaker 4: he should step out of the race because I didn't
3:07
Speaker 4: think he could win.
3:08
Speaker 2: Him showed early signs of dementia. We thought they pushed
3:12
Speaker 2: him out. Kamala Harris, head new energy. What is your
3:15
Speaker 2: thoughts on the whole thing?
3:17
Speaker 1: Let me probably a little look at it from my homie.
3:24
Speaker 1: I know that white manner to the wheels fellow, I
3:28
Speaker 1: didn't care. Just put weekend at Bernie's. Push him on
3:32
Speaker 1: the damn you know, wheelchair, push him in the room,
3:35
Speaker 1: because that was still acceptable over what we were facing. Now,
3:39
Speaker 1: there's no question that there were questions and concerns. You
3:41
Speaker 1: all were on the front line raising those questions. Other
3:44
Speaker 1: people were doing it more than nefariously behind the scenes,
3:47
Speaker 1: ostensibly supporting, but all the time stabbing you with the knife.
3:52
Speaker 1: Joe Biden I think could have still won. It would
3:54
Speaker 1: have been much closer. It had been a much tighter
3:56
Speaker 1: race house. And ever, as James Brown would say, there
4:00
Speaker 1: is no doubt that the shifting energy to Kamala Harris
4:04
Speaker 1: is remarkable. Let's be real, it's got a surprise. Kamala Harris.
4:08
Speaker 1: You ever done something you go like, damn, I ain't know.
4:10
Speaker 1: I didn't know I was gonna come like that. Nobody
4:13
Speaker 1: could have predicted it. You know what they were predicting
4:15
Speaker 1: White women ain't gonna stand up for that black woman
4:17
Speaker 1: because white women were voting disproportionately in their numbers for
4:22
Speaker 1: Donald Trump the last time around. They didn't support Hillary
4:25
Speaker 1: to the degree that they should have anyway. So what
4:28
Speaker 1: makes us think that they're gonna support this black woman
4:31
Speaker 1: from California? Well, lo and behold they is and Republican
4:36
Speaker 1: women are out there doing their things. I hope it's
4:38
Speaker 1: a reverse Tom Bradley effect, you know, the Tom Bradley
4:41
Speaker 1: effect and named after the governor of California, which meant
4:44
Speaker 1: white people would say, oh, yes, we'll vote for the
4:46
Speaker 1: negro work I got to support him, and then going
4:48
Speaker 1: to booth and then boom, vote for the white guy.
4:51
Speaker 1: I think the reverse might happen this time around, that
4:53
Speaker 1: white women might tell their husbands and other interested parties, yes,
4:56
Speaker 1: yes I'm a Trumper, and then going there and support
4:59
Speaker 1: common Mala Harris. Why because she's reasonable, Why because she's intelligent,
5:03
Speaker 1: Why because she's self possessed, she's not off the hinge
5:07
Speaker 1: as Trump is, and she continues to escalate a war
5:12
Speaker 1: against the lunacy that is Donald Trump. So it is astonishing,
5:16
Speaker 1: it's amazing. I've known Vice President Harris for some twenty
5:20
Speaker 1: odd years. She's been a woman of integrity, she's been
5:23
Speaker 1: a woman of serious regard for the people, and she's
5:27
Speaker 1: been willing to take on some complicated stuff. I know
5:29
Speaker 1: a lot of people are trying to portray her as
5:31
Speaker 1: you know, tough on crime and so on and so forth.
5:34
Speaker 1: You what amazes me about that black people be the
5:36
Speaker 1: first people called the police anyway, right, And I mean
5:40
Speaker 1: you be there, like Mama, I told you that sandwich
5:42
Speaker 1: wasn't right. I'm calling the cops on you. So obviously
5:45
Speaker 1: I'm being facetious, y'all. But the point is that does.
5:47
Speaker 3: Some very progressive things.
5:48
Speaker 1: She's done some very progressive bat that. But at the
5:53
Speaker 1: same time, we act like people don't commit crime. We
5:55
Speaker 1: acting like the people who are calling the cops or
5:59
Speaker 1: at least asking for crime, not this kind of antiquated,
6:03
Speaker 1: antediluvian assault upon the rights of black people. We ain't
6:06
Speaker 1: talking about that. We talking about you in the hood
6:09
Speaker 1: and I'm trying to live and you selling, you promoting,
6:12
Speaker 1: you doing whatever that's undermining our communities. You know, when
6:16
Speaker 1: I was I think ros Baroka, the mayor of Newark,
6:19
Speaker 1: said some of that defund the police stuff was from
6:21
Speaker 1: bourgeoise negroes who don't live in these hoods now, whether
6:24
Speaker 1: you take that or not, because I'm for a progressive
6:26
Speaker 1: realization of police being held to account. As Tyreek Hill,
6:30
Speaker 1: I think he's with us now. The point is at
6:32
Speaker 1: the same time that there are real concerns and issues
6:35
Speaker 1: of crime that she tried to address in very practical
6:38
Speaker 1: and progressive fashion, and we need to acknowledge that. But
6:41
Speaker 1: I think the energy with her is remarkable. It's astonishing,
6:45
Speaker 1: and more power to her. I hope she continues to
6:49
Speaker 1: grow in strength and numbers as we go on.
6:51
Speaker 4: Me too, you know, That's why I think your book
6:53
Speaker 4: is so timely, because you know, one thing that I've
6:55
Speaker 4: been speaking about is why aren't more people calling out
6:58
Speaker 4: the Supreme Court and calling out for being an illegitimate institution,
7:01
Speaker 4: Because what I don't even know if our democracy right
7:04
Speaker 4: now is healthy enough to have a free and fair
7:06
Speaker 4: election because of a lot of their recent rulings. And
7:09
Speaker 4: when you look at the fact that you know, you'll
7:11
Speaker 4: have so many people across the country who might refuse
7:13
Speaker 4: to certify the result of the election right right.
7:15
Speaker 3: That's why I think your book is very timed.
7:17
Speaker 1: Thank you for that and I appreciate that that's a
7:20
Speaker 1: brilliant point, because, look, there's enough skepticism to go around anyway,
7:25
Speaker 1: enough cynicism even to be generated in the aftermath of
7:29
Speaker 1: what the Supreme Court has done. And for those who
7:32
Speaker 1: say voting don't matter, just take the Supreme Court the
7:34
Speaker 1: issue you're talking about. Three justices were appointed by Donald Trump.
7:39
Speaker 1: Three Now, remember when Obama was in office and Mitch McConnell,
7:44
Speaker 1: the great al face One himself, said that, no, we're
7:47
Speaker 1: not gonna have an election. You know, we're not gonna
7:49
Speaker 1: you know, it's too close to election. We're not gonna
7:52
Speaker 1: do this is ten months before we're gonna hold Merrit
7:55
Speaker 1: Garland and let the next president decide. Donald Trump wins,
8:00
Speaker 1: he gets in his people on what Gorsag, Kavanaugh and
8:04
Speaker 1: Amy Cony Barrett right, they have shifted profoundly to the right.
8:10
Speaker 1: A court that was meant, as you said, to be
8:12
Speaker 1: a check and balance and democracy. You got the executive branch,
8:15
Speaker 1: the president and stuff. You got the legislative people in
8:18
Speaker 1: Congress and the Senate, and you got the Supreme Court,
8:22
Speaker 1: and they're all supposed to be held in check. But
8:24
Speaker 1: when the Supreme Court is in cahoots with the President
8:27
Speaker 1: of the United States of America, who happens to be
8:29
Speaker 1: an anti democracy figure, who is inspiring an insurrection in America.
8:36
Speaker 1: The very avatar symbol of what's supposed to be democracy
8:40
Speaker 1: itself is himself purging you know, voters. More importantly, democracy
8:48
Speaker 1: by his own actions is astonishing. So it is a
8:52
Speaker 1: question as to whether or not the Supreme Court should
8:54
Speaker 1: be reformed. Now, you know, President Biden put forth these rules,
8:59
Speaker 1: you know, but they to regulate themselves. The you know,
9:01
Speaker 1: what did Malcolm X say? The chickens are being now
9:05
Speaker 1: presided over by the foxes, So we can't you know,
9:08
Speaker 1: you know, Clarence Thomas, a white supremacist and black skin,
9:12
Speaker 1: a man who has been so unprincipled, and his wife
9:16
Speaker 1: and the wife of another Supreme Court Justice Alito, running
9:19
Speaker 1: your flag upside down, you are signifying to us that
9:22
Speaker 1: you are complicitus with the very forces that you should
9:26
Speaker 1: be opposing. So it is a problem. But I say,
9:29
Speaker 1: the answer then is not less voting, but more because
9:33
Speaker 1: if we change the constitution, not of the United States
9:37
Speaker 1: of America, but of the court of the voter, if
9:40
Speaker 1: we get a person in like Kamala Harris and Tim Wallas,
9:43
Speaker 1: and they are able to restore some sense of integrity
9:47
Speaker 1: and appreciation and confidence in our government that goes a
9:52
Speaker 1: long way towards trying to remedy some of these more
9:54
Speaker 1: systemic and structural problems.
9:56
Speaker 2: How do you think we should hand do two things?
9:59
Speaker 1: AI? In all this fake news? Right?
10:01
Speaker 2: Because people really believe what they're seeing online, and although
10:05
Speaker 2: you could hear it from the horse's mouth, people really
10:07
Speaker 2: believe it. So how do you think these politicians should
10:10
Speaker 2: handle a lot of the AI and a lot of
10:12
Speaker 2: the fake news that's going on across the social media
10:14
Speaker 2: and even the news is reporting some of this fake news?
10:16
Speaker 1: Of course, Look, AI is one of my favorite players
10:19
Speaker 1: of all time, so I support him whatever he is. Okay, Now,
10:23
Speaker 1: the other AI, right, because Allen ivers that I saw
10:25
Speaker 1: him for three years when I was a professor at
10:27
Speaker 1: University of Pennsylvania, one of the coldest ever to do
10:29
Speaker 1: it in one of the brazses. I wish we had
10:32
Speaker 1: AI in that in terms of artificial intelligence, because it
10:36
Speaker 1: is it's tricky. We don't know what's real. The deep fakes,
10:40
Speaker 1: you know, people out here saying one thing and meaning
10:42
Speaker 1: another or lying about it even before AI think about it,
10:45
Speaker 1: the robo calls that were being out put out here.
10:48
Speaker 1: You know, voting is on Wednesday. Now you know we
10:50
Speaker 1: don't vote on Wednesday, next Saturday. To vote early to
10:53
Speaker 1: the you know souls to the polls and churches is problematic,
10:56
Speaker 1: and so on and so forth. So you've got the
10:58
Speaker 1: distillation and the dial of all kinds of fake news
11:02
Speaker 1: and fake information, which is why behooves us to listen
11:06
Speaker 1: to the breakfast Club, why behooves us to read the
11:09
Speaker 1: New York Times, the Guardian, the Wall Street Journal, whatever
11:12
Speaker 1: your paper of choice is, and to make sure you
11:15
Speaker 1: can fact check, because if you've got again, and I
11:18
Speaker 1: hate to just beat this dead horse, but you've got
11:20
Speaker 1: a president who is the font of fake news, of defactualization,
11:25
Speaker 1: a factfulness gone awry. This dude don't know a fact.
11:28
Speaker 1: If it hit him in the head, he lies, and
11:31
Speaker 1: then he lies again, and people lie and lie again
11:33
Speaker 1: and create that as the basis of facts. Then you've
11:36
Speaker 1: got Senators like Hawley and Congressmen like Jordan out here
11:40
Speaker 1: reinforcing the negativity that's generated by the falseness of it.
11:45
Speaker 1: So you got misinformation, which is I didn't mean to
11:49
Speaker 1: get it wrong, but I messed up disinformation said, I
11:52
Speaker 1: meant to get it wrong, and I'm trying to lie
11:53
Speaker 1: to you so I can convince you to do something
11:55
Speaker 1: that is against your best interests. So disinformation and misinformation
11:59
Speaker 1: are bet enough. So we got to continue to do
12:02
Speaker 1: the old fashioned way. Read it for yourself, find it
12:05
Speaker 1: in a newspaper, check it against facts of history. Begin
12:09
Speaker 1: to talk to people that you trust, talk to people
12:12
Speaker 1: who you know whose job it is to think about
12:15
Speaker 1: these things. And no disrespect to celebrities, but man, oh man,
12:19
Speaker 1: in our community especially, we're vulnerable. You know, you get
12:21
Speaker 1: a celebrity, gets mad, gets upset, talks about things. And
12:25
Speaker 1: I love my man Tyrese. He was just off base
12:29
Speaker 1: when what he was saying. I love his energy, I
12:31
Speaker 1: love the sincerity with which he said it. I know
12:34
Speaker 1: his intent was right, but sometimes you could just be
12:37
Speaker 1: spreading misinformation that ain't helpful to us as the people
12:41
Speaker 1: so read. And this is why I know the sound
12:43
Speaker 1: self serving as a black intellectual. But I'm sixty five
12:45
Speaker 1: years old. I've been out here on this battlefield for
12:48
Speaker 1: forty years, and I'm telling you I'm trying to make
12:51
Speaker 1: the life of the mind sexy. To young people. I
12:53
Speaker 1: want them to see you ain't just got to be
12:54
Speaker 1: a rapper, which is important. You ain't just got to
12:56
Speaker 1: be an entertainer, which is great. You ain't got to
12:58
Speaker 1: be a singer, You ain't got to be an athlete.
13:00
Speaker 1: You could be an intellectual, a thinker, a person who
13:03
Speaker 1: puts on every day a thinking cap and tries to
13:06
Speaker 1: reflect upon the world. There's something virtuous about that, and
13:10
Speaker 1: I'm unapologetic about that because I think we need more
13:12
Speaker 1: of that now in an era when disinformation ai, the
13:16
Speaker 1: creation of deep fakes, and the perpetuation of legacies of
13:20
Speaker 1: inequity through means to dominate the masses has to be examined.
13:25
Speaker 1: So we got to go back to old school, think
13:26
Speaker 1: about Noam Chomsky and manufacturing consent, and think about these
13:30
Speaker 1: great books Marshall mclewin in terms of talking about the
13:34
Speaker 1: media and the medium is the message. That's the kind
13:36
Speaker 1: of stuff we got to think critically about as we
13:38
Speaker 1: move forward.
13:39
Speaker 4: You know, then there's about what you said, brother Dyson.
13:41
Speaker 4: Most of your favorite entertainers are rappers that people like
13:45
Speaker 4: you like them because they're intellectual, right, whether you deem
13:47
Speaker 4: them an academic intellectual or not. Like you like Pak,
13:50
Speaker 4: you like Killer Mike, you like jay Z, you like Nas,
13:53
Speaker 4: you scarface.
13:54
Speaker 3: These brothers are intellectuals, Lauren here.
13:56
Speaker 1: You know, that's a great point, and that's why I
13:59
Speaker 1: did them. I've written books about half of them. Why
14:02
Speaker 1: because they're thoughtful. Pac. I mean, Pac was amazing on
14:07
Speaker 1: that microphone. But boy, he's up here talking about American government.
14:13
Speaker 1: I mean at twenty two, twenty three, twenty four, the
14:16
Speaker 1: son of a black panther, he said, I was literally
14:18
Speaker 1: born in jail because his mother was one of the
14:20
Speaker 1: panthers twenty one that were here in New York and
14:22
Speaker 1: we're on trial. So from the very beginning, he was
14:25
Speaker 1: trained about being skeptical and suspicious of the dominant society.
14:30
Speaker 1: When you think about a Killer Mike, a Loupe Fiasco,
14:33
Speaker 1: you know people that I've talked to constantly. When you
14:35
Speaker 1: think about a Jay, when you think about a Nas.
14:37
Speaker 1: These are highly intellectual reflections and reflectors on society. And
14:44
Speaker 1: we appeal to them precisely because they teach us to
14:47
Speaker 1: think for ourselves and to be open minded.
14:49
Speaker 5: Great point, how do you feel about do you sepplies
14:51
Speaker 5: as comments that he made about Kamala and people questioning
14:54
Speaker 5: her who applies all right?
14:56
Speaker 1: And his support you mean his support for her, Yeah.
14:59
Speaker 3: It's support.
14:59
Speaker 5: But it caused a big conversation about how do you
15:02
Speaker 5: question your candidates? Should you question your candidates? Is she
15:04
Speaker 5: being questioned unfairly? And I know your book is all
15:06
Speaker 5: about like desires and voting equaling that. So how did
15:09
Speaker 5: you feel about what he said?
15:10
Speaker 1: Rayborn? Well, I love plies. You know, prize is out
15:13
Speaker 1: there just raising the serious questions that need to be raised.
15:16
Speaker 1: Another intellectually curious and insightful young man. And look, you
15:22
Speaker 1: got to question all these candidates. I love and support
15:24
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris. I've known her for over twenty years. I
15:27
Speaker 1: think she is the best woman for the job, made
15:28
Speaker 1: the best woman win, That's what I think. However, you
15:32
Speaker 1: got to hold everybody to account. She knows that if
15:34
Speaker 1: she's worth her salt, she's got to say, hold me
15:37
Speaker 1: to account. Y'all know this old story that a Philip
15:40
Speaker 1: Randolph and Mary MacLeod Bethune a visiting with Franklin Delano
15:45
Speaker 1: Roosevelt in the White House, right, and they were part
15:48
Speaker 1: of his kitchen and cabinet. This is like back in
15:50
Speaker 1: the forties, and they're telling him you got to do this.
15:53
Speaker 1: You got to create the possibility for black people to vote.
15:56
Speaker 1: You've got to we have to do everything we can
15:58
Speaker 1: to make sure that the military is, you know, desegregated.
16:01
Speaker 1: He says, everything you were doing and saying I agree
16:04
Speaker 1: with and now go out in the streets and make
16:05
Speaker 1: me do it right. Harry Belafonte used to love telling
16:08
Speaker 1: that story. So the thing is, you got to make
16:10
Speaker 1: people hold them to account. Martin Luther King Junior on
16:13
Speaker 1: the outside putting pressure on LBJ allows LBJ to collar
16:19
Speaker 1: some of those people in the Senate and say, you're
16:21
Speaker 1: gonna vote the right way, and we're gonna do what
16:23
Speaker 1: we kind of do to pass what the Voting Rights Ack.
16:26
Speaker 1: But before that, the Civil Rights Bill, right, civil Rights Ack.
16:29
Speaker 1: And then look at the Holy Trinity sixty four, the
16:33
Speaker 1: Civil Rights Act, sixty five, the Voting Rights Ack, and
16:35
Speaker 1: in sixty eight, in homage the doctor King after his death,
16:38
Speaker 1: the Fair Housing Act. That's the Holy Trinity. That's the
16:42
Speaker 1: triumphant trilogy of transformation for Black folk in this country,
16:46
Speaker 1: politically and legislatively. So you got to hold these people
16:49
Speaker 1: to account. If it wasn't for the pressure of King,
16:52
Speaker 1: then LBJ wouldn't have done what he did, couldn't have
16:55
Speaker 1: done what he did. If it wasn't for Frederick Douglas,
16:58
Speaker 1: then Lincoln might not have acted the way he did.
17:01
Speaker 1: And we ain't talking about perfect people. You know, when
17:03
Speaker 1: people always cite the history of some of these people,
17:06
Speaker 1: Joe Biden or Lincoln, I don't give a dang what
17:08
Speaker 1: Lincoln's motivation was. He signed the Emancipation Proclamation. And when
17:13
Speaker 1: he signed that Emancipation Proclamation, that opened up possibility. So
17:17
Speaker 1: we have to stop demanding perfection even as we hold
17:20
Speaker 1: people to account. And I think it is important to
17:23
Speaker 1: hold people to account. But what's interesting to me is
17:25
Speaker 1: that when I hear all that about holding to account,
17:28
Speaker 1: I ain't seeing nobody who's promoting Donald Trump saying let
17:31
Speaker 1: me do it skeptically, let me be self critical about
17:34
Speaker 1: mister Trump. Yes, I think that in their quoting going
17:38
Speaker 1: back fifty years to find something about Joe Biden, this
17:41
Speaker 1: dude was promoting the death of the Central Park five
17:43
Speaker 1: now known as the Exonerated five not long ago, and
17:46
Speaker 1: ain't apologized yet or backtrack upon demanding the death penalty
17:51
Speaker 1: for them. Here's a guy who would his father denied
17:54
Speaker 1: people access to housing when he owned these cribs in
17:58
Speaker 1: these apartments in New York. Here's a guy who has
18:00
Speaker 1: been consistent. Now, I think rappers get it twisted because
18:04
Speaker 1: he was an icon of hip hop before. Why because
18:07
Speaker 1: he had the women he had they talk, They thought
18:11
Speaker 1: he had the money. You can see he was lying.
18:14
Speaker 1: They thought he had the buildings and the money, and
18:16
Speaker 1: he was a billionaire and all that. So that was
18:17
Speaker 1: attractive to a kind of glitzy hip hop era where
18:21
Speaker 1: it was all about the pursuit of capital. But Donald
18:23
Speaker 1: Trump was faking the funk even then. His daddy gave
18:26
Speaker 1: him four four hundred million to begin with. If your
18:29
Speaker 1: father gave you four hundred million to begin with as
18:32
Speaker 1: a little loan to hook you up and you still
18:34
Speaker 1: struggling the way you're doing, you are of a failure.
18:37
Speaker 1: So even at that level, they're problematic issues. I hear
18:40
Speaker 1: young rappers saying, but he gave us a check. No,
18:43
Speaker 1: they talking about during COVID the twelve hundred dollars or
18:46
Speaker 1: whatever they got two thousand check the record. That's the
18:49
Speaker 1: legislative branch, that is Congress stuff that he opposed, and
18:53
Speaker 1: then he took credit for distributing Joe Biden done hooked
18:57
Speaker 1: up a lot of people in terms of student loan.
19:00
Speaker 1: I know three or four people have been forgiven one
19:02
Speaker 1: hundred thousand or more. So the point is, check the record,
19:05
Speaker 1: stop the disinformation, stop the misinformation, stop the deep fakes,
19:09
Speaker 1: and ask serious questions. You must always hold people to account,
19:13
Speaker 1: hold me to account, hold y'all to account. But do
19:16
Speaker 1: it in a in a in a I think respectful fashion.
19:18
Speaker 1: The thing that I have a problem with I'm I'm
19:21
Speaker 1: on Twitter or what it acts and people calling me
19:24
Speaker 1: out my name. You know, I'm trying to check as
19:27
Speaker 1: the people I know undercover. Maybe it's my mother, Okay, no,
19:29
Speaker 1: it's not her. So the thing is is that you know,
19:32
Speaker 1: you can hold me to account, you can challenge me,
19:35
Speaker 1: but I'm twenty seven books in the game, mofo. I've
19:38
Speaker 1: done my work. It doesn't mean that you have to
19:41
Speaker 1: agree with what I say, but be respectful for what
19:43
Speaker 1: I do and acknowledge that. And so On Twitter, you know,
19:46
Speaker 1: we have these Twitter you know, battles, and we got
19:49
Speaker 1: these digital warriors who are talking trash and being nasty
19:52
Speaker 1: and calling your names. Do we have to do that?
19:54
Speaker 1: Can we respect the integrity of each other and say
19:58
Speaker 1: we're in a pitched battle where trying to figure out
20:00
Speaker 1: the best way to go, and let's treat each other
20:02
Speaker 1: with fundamental love and respect.
20:04
Speaker 2: Let's talk about the dim witted doappo ganger.
20:07
Speaker 1: Love that phrase. Wow, Yes, he is a dem witted
20:10
Speaker 1: doppo ganger. Uh he is an autocratic in our guard.
20:15
Speaker 1: We're talking about Donald Trump, a foolish fascist. For that matter,
20:18
Speaker 1: you talking about JD Vance But you know Jay, I mean,
20:22
Speaker 1: what's up a JD Right? First of all, you give
20:25
Speaker 1: an ivy league a bad name. Bro, you went to Yale. Uh,
20:29
Speaker 1: you got more reason to have high intelligence than that.
20:32
Speaker 1: Uh he is, he is in himself a dim witted
20:36
Speaker 1: dappo ganger of Donald Trump. Because you know better not
20:40
Speaker 1: the the the erosion of JD. Vance over the last
20:44
Speaker 1: three or four years. You know, not only are you
20:46
Speaker 1: being supported by Peter Till and you know your whole
20:49
Speaker 1: uh senatorial career is old to one guy uh in
20:53
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley who believes in you and your right wing agenda.
20:57
Speaker 1: And you're deeply and profoundly the nativest xenophobic belief and
21:02
Speaker 1: passion merrit as you are to an Indian woman in
21:06
Speaker 1: America and initially you were saying, oh, yeah, she's not white.
21:09
Speaker 1: But why are you apologizing for your wife, bro, Because
21:14
Speaker 1: the side you're on is so racist that you have
21:19
Speaker 1: to then make an exception for the inclusion of your wife.
21:22
Speaker 1: That ought to tell you something. JD. Vance is a
21:24
Speaker 1: despicable reflection of cow towing and capitulating to a foolish
21:30
Speaker 1: fascist like Donald Trump, and his ability to be an
21:33
Speaker 1: echo chamber as opposed to a critical voice is disparaiting.
21:38
Speaker 1: But we are to call him for what he is,
21:40
Speaker 1: and he is joined with the enemy of the state.
21:43
Speaker 1: He has joined with an enemy of democracy, and we
21:45
Speaker 1: are to call him out for it.
21:47
Speaker 4: You know, your book also points out how the Finding
21:49
Speaker 4: Fathers didn't want everybody to vote. Could you talk about
21:52
Speaker 4: who couldn't yeh at the beginning of the nation.
21:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad you said that, because people think, well,
21:56
Speaker 1: they came here, they're trying to flee Great Britain. You know,
22:00
Speaker 1: Taxation without representation Nah, sounds like DC, right, But the
22:05
Speaker 1: point is the Founding Fathers, like, we got to be
22:07
Speaker 1: real careful with that, because if you say everybody can vote,
22:10
Speaker 1: then them slaves can vote. Can't have that so we
22:13
Speaker 1: got to figure out a way to keep them out. Oh,
22:15
Speaker 1: we don't want the women running stuff. Got to figure
22:18
Speaker 1: out a way to keep them out. Oh, I get it.
22:20
Speaker 1: We'll say you have to be property owning. Now that
22:23
Speaker 1: excludes a whole bunch of white people too, white men.
22:25
Speaker 1: But we can keep it elite. We can keep it
22:27
Speaker 1: a nice little club that we control, because we don't
22:31
Speaker 1: want the unwashed masses to be able to determine and
22:34
Speaker 1: dictate what goes on in America. So initially, what did
22:38
Speaker 1: they do. They punted it. The federal government said, let's
22:40
Speaker 1: give it to the states. Right. Whoever is, you know
22:43
Speaker 1: in New Jersey, they can decide what they're doing. Who's
22:46
Speaker 1: in you know, Massachusetts, they can decide what they're doing.
22:48
Speaker 1: Who's in South Carolina, they can decide what they're doing.
22:50
Speaker 1: So they punted it to the states. And then you've
22:52
Speaker 1: heard of this thing called states rights. Right. That was
22:54
Speaker 1: a big thing during the Civil rights movement at its height,
22:57
Speaker 1: because they were saying, it's the state's rights. Forget the
22:59
Speaker 1: federal government telling us what we can and cannot do,
23:02
Speaker 1: imposing constraints upon us. You know, when George Wallace, the
23:06
Speaker 1: governor of Alabama stood in the door and kept those
23:09
Speaker 1: negroes from entering the University of Alabama. Forget the federal government,
23:13
Speaker 1: it's the state, and Alabama says they cannot come in.
23:16
Speaker 1: So that's what's set up by the federal government because
23:19
Speaker 1: they said the founding fithers, we don't want us dictating
23:23
Speaker 1: and determining what goes on in these states. For instance,
23:25
Speaker 1: in New Jersey, women could vote. Initially, right, that was
23:28
Speaker 1: the only state that allowed women to vote. They were
23:30
Speaker 1: first referring to they, which is not you know, neutral,
23:34
Speaker 1: Then they said he or she, which is pretty progressive
23:37
Speaker 1: when you think about women voting. But then decades later
23:40
Speaker 1: they even rejected the possibility of women voting in Jersey.
23:43
Speaker 1: In some states, black people could vote, then they couldn't vote.
23:46
Speaker 1: So there was a hodgepodge and a mismash mismash of
23:50
Speaker 1: you know, constitutional declarations independently of these states that allowed
23:55
Speaker 1: them to have wildly varying degrees of support overall. In all,
24:01
Speaker 1: the founding Fablers weren't the kind of you know, rich,
24:05
Speaker 1: richly supportive democrats, small d that were able to say
24:10
Speaker 1: we want everybody to be able to vote, and that
24:13
Speaker 1: kind of misunderstanding. It's just like when when I hear
24:15
Speaker 1: conservatives say, well, we're a Christian nation, No we ain't.
24:18
Speaker 1: Bro South Africa is one of the rare ones that
24:21
Speaker 1: claims to be explicitly a Christian nation. You see how
24:24
Speaker 1: that turned out. So when they say this is a
24:26
Speaker 1: Christian nation, Thomas Jefferson ain't believing in the Bible the
24:30
Speaker 1: same way you do Ralph Reid or Jerry Folwell, it's
24:34
Speaker 1: a different Bible. The first thing Thomas Jefferson did when
24:37
Speaker 1: he got the Bible he cut all the miracles out
24:39
Speaker 1: because he wanted to be empirical. He left Smokey Robinson though,
24:43
Speaker 1: okay anyway, so not to not to not come on, man,
24:47
Speaker 1: come on with it. So he cut the miracles out.
24:49
Speaker 1: He wanted only things that could be empirically verifiable. So boom,
24:53
Speaker 1: that's gone. Y'all ain't believing in that. They were what
24:56
Speaker 1: they call mechanistic deists. That means God wound the world up,
25:00
Speaker 1: put it in order, and let it go on its own.
25:02
Speaker 1: So when Albert Einstein years later, when he's debating Werner
25:05
Speaker 1: Heisenberg and about you know, theories of physics, Einstein believed
25:12
Speaker 1: in the you know, that there's phenomena that you could
25:15
Speaker 1: specifically note where it is. Heisenberg said, now it's an
25:18
Speaker 1: uncertainty principle. We don't quite know where it is. We're
25:21
Speaker 1: trying to figure it out. It's approximately here. I said God.
25:24
Speaker 1: Einstein said, God does not play dice with the universe.
25:27
Speaker 1: So what he meant by God was you know, Einstein
25:29
Speaker 1: was an atheist. He meant the structure of the universe
25:32
Speaker 1: natural law. So I'm saying all that to say, when
25:35
Speaker 1: y'all be saying this is a Christian nation and has
25:37
Speaker 1: founded upon these principles, stop lying. Do your homework. It
25:40
Speaker 1: was far more complicated and nuanced than we believed, and
25:43
Speaker 1: they believed in the different kind of God than we
25:45
Speaker 1: believe in. Now, same with democracy. They were not for
25:48
Speaker 1: everybody participating. But the genius of those documents, the Declaration
25:52
Speaker 1: of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights is that
25:55
Speaker 1: we could take what they said and use it for
25:58
Speaker 1: our advantage, because we could expand democracy to the parameters
26:03
Speaker 1: that they claimed to want to do but never did.
26:06
Speaker 1: That's the beauty of our country.
26:08
Speaker 5: Speaking of everybody not participating, I know you were like
26:11
Speaker 5: a big proponent of Beyonce, and you know you saw
26:14
Speaker 5: what just recently happening, what happened with her in the CMAS.
26:17
Speaker 5: And you know we don't I mean we don't. We
26:18
Speaker 5: participate in that arena, but we never get our just
26:21
Speaker 5: due ever there.
26:22
Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am.
26:22
Speaker 5: So her dad has come out and said, of course
26:25
Speaker 5: race played a factor, like that's the obvious conversation around it,
26:27
Speaker 5: because Cowboy Carters. She had a huge year, right, she
26:30
Speaker 5: made history, did you know what I mean? So, what's
26:32
Speaker 5: your take on Beyonce and the CMAS?
26:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, come on, man, I mean,
26:38
Speaker 1: just in terms of the merits alone, forget the issues
26:41
Speaker 1: of race, gender, class. Just on the issue of the
26:44
Speaker 1: merits alone. The album itself is a document of country music.
26:48
Speaker 1: Was beautiful, brilliant and powerful, and she stretched the parameters
26:51
Speaker 1: of it. She got Dolly Partner on there, giving her
26:54
Speaker 1: a code sign. I mean, she did all the stuff
26:56
Speaker 1: you was supposed to do. She wearing the cowboy boots,
26:58
Speaker 1: she got the cowboy hat. You know, she's hanging out.
27:02
Speaker 1: She Texas, hold them. I mean, she making the music
27:05
Speaker 1: and she grew up in Houston, Texas. Y'all what y'all think?
27:08
Speaker 1: Of course, she loves country music. I grew up in Detroit.
27:11
Speaker 1: My daddy was from George and mama from Alabama. We
27:14
Speaker 1: listened to country music. Hey, good looking, what you got cooking?
27:20
Speaker 1: How's about cooking something up with me? Come on, man,
27:24
Speaker 1: I mean you know, I mean we would listening to
27:26
Speaker 1: that country music. Ray Charles putting it down. We're watching
27:30
Speaker 1: George Hamilton play, you know, the great, great country singer
27:35
Speaker 1: and who died in his early mid twenties. So the
27:38
Speaker 1: point is that we listened to country. We are country,
27:42
Speaker 1: We helped produce country. Country is like the white blues,
27:46
Speaker 1: and blues is like the black country. So there were
27:49
Speaker 1: similar traits, musical styles, signatures, cadences and the like. So
27:54
Speaker 1: Beyonce grew up with that ginguinely and now to be
27:58
Speaker 1: denied that, how well else you gonna say, But it's
28:00
Speaker 1: a racial segregation of a marketplace that they are seeking
28:04
Speaker 1: to undermine, that they are seeking to open up, that
28:08
Speaker 1: they're seeking the challenge. And look, I live in Nashville, Tennessee.
28:12
Speaker 1: I love country music. I'm down with it. I go
28:14
Speaker 1: to the CMA's my very dear friend Mia McNeil, who
28:20
Speaker 1: I had the chance to a performer wedding ceremony A
28:23
Speaker 1: brilliant advocate for DEI in country music is there. So
28:27
Speaker 1: they're making strives. But this right here is a black
28:30
Speaker 1: mark pun intended on country music, and they ought to
28:33
Speaker 1: be ashamed of themselves for denying the very means by
28:37
Speaker 1: which they could become even more popular. Think about it.
28:40
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson had to argue for his music to be
28:44
Speaker 1: played on MTV. Please, White establishment, allow me to save you.
28:48
Speaker 1: Allow me to come in and make videos that will
28:51
Speaker 1: revive your genre. And so at the same time, here
28:55
Speaker 1: what we got to acknowledge is that Beyonce brought a
28:59
Speaker 1: different audience to what's going on. Think about it. When
29:01
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift is at the NFL, they're embracing it. Let's
29:04
Speaker 1: show Taylor every two point seven seconds with her boyfriend
29:09
Speaker 1: and clapping and so on and so forth. So now
29:12
Speaker 1: Beyonce comes in, it's a different story. It's ball racism,
29:16
Speaker 1: it's bigotry. And Howard Thurmant said, the biggot is a
29:18
Speaker 1: person who makes an idol of his commitments. They've they've
29:21
Speaker 1: committed themselves to a narrow range of what is a
29:23
Speaker 1: popular and appropriate and I think it's shameful and they
29:27
Speaker 1: are to be called on it. For the racist that
29:30
Speaker 1: racism that that represents.
29:32
Speaker 4: And you know, I want to bought Vanderbilt. Got a
29:34
Speaker 4: salute Alice Randall. She wrote the book My Black Country.
29:37
Speaker 4: You know that talks to my homegirl from Detroit to
29:41
Speaker 4: my colleague, Music's past, present in future. Yes, black people's
29:45
Speaker 4: role in country music.
29:46
Speaker 1: Oh yes, I mean she is a brilliant She is
29:48
Speaker 1: the most brilliant exponent of black folk and country music.
29:52
Speaker 1: And that book is a remarkably terrifically eloquent exposition of
29:57
Speaker 1: what we've been through, what we've gone through. She's a
29:58
Speaker 1: songwriter as well, and a tremendous, tremendous writer. So I
30:02
Speaker 1: would encourage all of y'all to read that book.
30:04
Speaker 4: We got a couple more questions for you, because I
30:05
Speaker 4: know we got somebody else coming in. But you wrote
30:08
Speaker 4: a great article speaking of the vice president, Kamala Harris
30:12
Speaker 4: and racial politics, and you compared commulated Drake at certain levels.
30:16
Speaker 4: What were you trying to say in that piece, because
30:18
Speaker 4: you know, we want people to vote for the vice president.
30:21
Speaker 3: I don't know comparing to the Drake right now is
30:23
Speaker 3: the best way I watch people to do that.
30:26
Speaker 5: I watched that.
30:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, go ahead, all right, we'll see. Here's my point,
30:31
Speaker 1: break it down my life. You know what, we have
30:34
Speaker 1: been in exile light skinned black people since Wesley Snipes
30:38
Speaker 1: stabbed Christopher Williams in New Jack Citty.
30:41
Speaker 4: It's been a rough I'm not going to die one
30:42
Speaker 4: of my favorite moments.
30:48
Speaker 1: We've been hurting ever since. We were depending upon Steph
30:51
Speaker 1: Curry and Drake to bring us back, and it's been
30:53
Speaker 1: a setback in one way. But here's the point. To
30:55
Speaker 1: be serious. The song is one thing. Say what you
30:58
Speaker 1: will about they not like us, but as an argument,
31:02
Speaker 1: they not like us. Fifteen eighty two, twelve point five
31:07
Speaker 1: black people from Africa are dispersed across the North Atlantic,
31:13
Speaker 1: and the North Atlantic slave trade begins, and most people
31:18
Speaker 1: did not come to what we now know is the
31:20
Speaker 1: United States of America. They went to Brazil, they went
31:24
Speaker 1: to may Cole, they went to the Caribbean, and less
31:28
Speaker 1: than four hundred thousand came here. Number one, Why is
31:32
Speaker 1: that important? Because when we're talking about who's black and
31:35
Speaker 1: who's not, because you know, people debating me, we ain't
31:37
Speaker 1: telling you so stupid. Okay, you could say that, but
31:40
Speaker 1: I got my bona for days. You're so stupid. It's
31:43
Speaker 1: not about race and Drake, It's about culture. He's a
31:46
Speaker 1: culture vulture. Are you serious? Right now? What other black
31:50
Speaker 1: entertainer do you know has ever been called a culture
31:52
Speaker 1: vulture for experimenting in his own or her own music.
31:56
Speaker 1: That's number one. Number two, Drake grew up in Toronto,
32:00
Speaker 1: adopting different musical persona was indigenous to that particular region.
32:06
Speaker 1: Number two, Number three, A lot of black folk went
32:09
Speaker 1: to Canada when they were trying to escape the murderous
32:13
Speaker 1: privileges of whiteness in America where slaveocracy was established. So
32:18
Speaker 1: when you say Drake is illegitimate or not genuine because
32:22
Speaker 1: he doesn't like a Black American culture or doesn't embrace it,
32:26
Speaker 1: blackness is bigger than what happens in the United States
32:30
Speaker 1: of America. Kamala Harris, what did they say, She's got
32:32
Speaker 1: a fake accent? Sound familiar, Drake with those fake accents?
32:35
Speaker 1: This is what artists do. What did Jay Z say,
32:37
Speaker 1: we're all actors? De Niro in training? What did Fat
32:42
Speaker 1: Joe say? Ninety seven percent itself is made up? That's
32:45
Speaker 1: what artists do. We don't hold al pacino, Are you
32:48
Speaker 1: really a member of the mob. We don't do that too.
32:51
Speaker 1: Maybe Frank Sinatra. We gave him an exception, but there
32:53
Speaker 1: were many others who do this right. We don't say
32:55
Speaker 1: you have to live the life you sing about in
32:57
Speaker 1: your song, which is a great gospel song, beautif when
33:00
Speaker 1: Mahela Jackson is singing it, not so much when you're
33:02
Speaker 1: trying to act like what's on that film as you
33:05
Speaker 1: or what's in that booth as you. We make stuff up.
33:08
Speaker 1: That's what art does. That's what fiction writers do. That's
33:10
Speaker 1: what Tony Morrison does. Now. Tony Morrison's Beloved is based
33:14
Speaker 1: upon a real story Margaret Garner, right, who killed her
33:17
Speaker 1: own children and before I'll be a slave, I'll be
33:19
Speaker 1: buried in my grave and go home to my God
33:21
Speaker 1: and be free, or kill my own kids. But she
33:24
Speaker 1: fictionalized the expression of that idea. Why is it that
33:28
Speaker 1: Drake becomes the avatar and symbol of what is not
33:31
Speaker 1: genuine in blackness when it's your narrow conception of blackness
33:35
Speaker 1: that prohibits him from flourishing in many ways? So I
33:38
Speaker 1: got big arguments with that. Kamala Harris. They said the
33:40
Speaker 1: same thing about Drake as her. You got a fake accent.
33:43
Speaker 1: You went to Canada to go to school. Jade Vance
33:45
Speaker 1: has been on her about that, and then that you
33:47
Speaker 1: are not genuinely black in the way that other black
33:49
Speaker 1: people are. Blackness by definition is subversive. It undermines narrow categories.
33:55
Speaker 1: I spent most of my career arguing against people who
33:58
Speaker 1: are trying to impose narrow constraints upon on blackness. We
34:00
Speaker 1: are as big as our imaginations allow us to be.
34:03
Speaker 1: And I think this is one of the sorry moments
34:06
Speaker 1: within hip hop and black culture where Drake becomes automatically
34:10
Speaker 1: uh the the representative of what is inauthentic, and Kamala
34:14
Speaker 1: Harrison the same way, you ain't really black. She's not
34:16
Speaker 1: a real black woman. Even Donald Trump is trying to
34:18
Speaker 1: weigh in by saying she just turned black, like she
34:21
Speaker 1: had malaria or some of a disease and you know, leprosy,
34:25
Speaker 1: and that she became black. This is the kind of
34:28
Speaker 1: ignorance that we've got to confront.
34:29
Speaker 2: I would love to hear you take I notice has
34:31
Speaker 2: nothing to do with politics, but I love I love
34:32
Speaker 2: your thought process. The fact that Lil Wayne is not
34:35
Speaker 2: performing a super Bowl in New.
34:37
Speaker 1: Orleans, go yeah, that's uh. Look, I love Lil Wayne.
34:41
Speaker 1: I'd rather be underground pushing flowers than in the pigs
34:45
Speaker 1: shared souths. I hear you, bro, Look, I mean those
34:48
Speaker 1: decisions are are complicated in the nuance. Right. First of all,
34:52
Speaker 1: we just now got used to the fact that hip
34:54
Speaker 1: hop could even be part of the conversation. Thank you,
34:58
Speaker 1: I mean thank you Rock Nation, I mean jay Z. Now,
35:01
Speaker 1: now this ain't got nothing to do with that. But
35:02
Speaker 1: I was about to preach that sermon you were talking about.
35:04
Speaker 1: A couple three weeks ago. I get a text, bring
35:07
Speaker 1: back the glasses. So I said, it was this text
35:10
Speaker 1: to be and he says, I guess people feel the
35:12
Speaker 1: same way about my hair. Ha ha ha. So you
35:14
Speaker 1: know I'm wearing them, Jay, what's I'm here right now?
35:19
Speaker 1: Other people have been saying it too. Because I had
35:21
Speaker 1: cataract surgery, I didn't need glass anymore, but you know
35:23
Speaker 1: I was. Mike said, I didn't even know it was you.
35:25
Speaker 5: It's the look, it's a part of the look.
35:26
Speaker 3: It's the brand.
35:27
Speaker 1: See what I'm saying. So Jay, and then now you
35:29
Speaker 1: I'll come and keep wearing the glass. So the point
35:31
Speaker 1: is Jade knows what he's talking about. He understands what
35:34
Speaker 1: the deal is. So because of him, we even have
35:36
Speaker 1: an argument about whether it could be Wheezy or whether
35:40
Speaker 1: it be you know, Kendrick and so on. I mean, look,
35:43
Speaker 1: whoever the choice is, can't be bad. Hip hop is
35:46
Speaker 1: being represented now. Should Little Wayne be acknowledged as a
35:50
Speaker 1: denizen of New Orleans as one of the greatest artists
35:53
Speaker 1: we've ever produced? Absolutely, and who knows, maybe he'll bring
35:57
Speaker 1: Little Wayne on. But I think again, our privilege which
36:00
Speaker 1: creates a certain kind of opportunity here to argue about
36:04
Speaker 1: stuff that we didn't even have five years ago before
36:06
Speaker 1: got involved.
36:07
Speaker 3: That's an incredible point.
36:08
Speaker 1: Ain't nobody even had no conversation about hip hop and
36:12
Speaker 1: its presence? So I give grace and love to jay
36:15
Speaker 1: Z and continue to support that movement because it's all
36:18
Speaker 1: good for all of us. Even though I'm a Drake
36:21
Speaker 1: fan and I love Kendrick as well, I understand what
36:23
Speaker 1: that's about. But my defensive Drake doesn't mean I'm ignorant
36:27
Speaker 1: to the broader dimensions of hip hop culture and what
36:30
Speaker 1: jay Z is doing. And it's nothing short or remarkable
36:32
Speaker 1: when you think about it.
36:34
Speaker 4: The final question, give people a case as to why
36:40
Speaker 4: they should go out and vote for this election.
36:42
Speaker 3: Because everybody always says.
36:43
Speaker 4: Oh, this is the most consequential election of our lifetime.
36:46
Speaker 4: You know, if you know this election, this candidate is
36:49
Speaker 4: the threat to democracy, which I believe Trump is. Yes,
36:51
Speaker 4: But but why should people go out there and vote
36:55
Speaker 4: in this election?
36:56
Speaker 3: Why is this the most important election of our lifetime?
36:58
Speaker 1: It is? And thank you for saying that. That's a great,
37:00
Speaker 1: great point. It is because you know how they often
37:03
Speaker 1: say democracy is on the ballot, But it is right
37:06
Speaker 1: because the choice is pretty glaring. You've got a person
37:11
Speaker 1: who has undermined the very nature of what democracy is about.
37:17
Speaker 1: If democracy is we define in this book as people
37:19
Speaker 1: power and the ability of people to control and govern
37:22
Speaker 1: the institutions that regulate their lives, to be able to
37:25
Speaker 1: dictate the terms of their existence by full participation in
37:29
Speaker 1: American democracy, then we have to conclude this man is
37:35
Speaker 1: a danger and a threat to American democracy. Now, he
37:38
Speaker 1: tried to flip that by saying, this is why they
37:40
Speaker 1: attempted to assassinate me, because they have demonized me and
37:44
Speaker 1: painted me as a bete noir, as a horrible person
37:48
Speaker 1: for American democracy. But you are, sir, so I think
37:52
Speaker 1: it's right for us to acknowledge that in this election,
37:56
Speaker 1: we are choosing between that on the one hand, and
37:59
Speaker 1: a woman who is the representative of all that is
38:02
Speaker 1: great and good about America as a black and black
38:05
Speaker 1: women alread running stuff. They might as well run the countries, right.
38:08
Speaker 1: I mean, at the end of the day, without black women,
38:11
Speaker 1: where would we be, right, I wouldn't be here. Most
38:13
Speaker 1: of us wouldn't be here without a black woman and
38:15
Speaker 1: a black woman not only in terms of physically, but
38:18
Speaker 1: in terms of the mental approach. When I go to
38:21
Speaker 1: these places where they're supporting black men and how black
38:24
Speaker 1: men have been this, it's black women leading away. It's
38:26
Speaker 1: black women saying, give our men a chance, give our
38:29
Speaker 1: boys a chance. Black women are standing up for us
38:31
Speaker 1: in ways we don't stand up for them. Twenty years ago,
38:35
Speaker 1: twenty one years ago, I wrote a book called Why
38:36
Speaker 1: I Love Black Women. It wasn't no thing, it wasn't
38:39
Speaker 1: no black girl magic, it wasn't no black boy joy.
38:42
Speaker 1: I did it because I felt that it was necessary
38:45
Speaker 1: to celebrate black women because they were being dissedant, dismissed.
38:49
Speaker 1: And look, you can choose who you want as a
38:51
Speaker 1: life partner. If you and this microphone get along, I
38:53
Speaker 1: get it. Hey, I like you I like you too.
38:55
Speaker 3: Why do you like men?
38:56
Speaker 1: Because you amplify me. You're long and black, and you're assertive.
39:00
Speaker 1: I like that. Your brain is big, and I appreciate that.
39:04
Speaker 1: So my point is, y'all get down with the microphone
39:07
Speaker 1: and have micrats. I mean, go do your thing. My
39:10
Speaker 1: point is you love who loves you. And I ain't
39:12
Speaker 1: mad at that. But at the end of the day,
39:14
Speaker 1: there is no reason to demonize and stigmatize black women
39:19
Speaker 1: for the very strength that they possess that is necessary
39:22
Speaker 1: to push the race forward. We get mad when it's
39:25
Speaker 1: expressed at home. And I think, and I know this
39:28
Speaker 1: is controversial. I think some of the black men who
39:31
Speaker 1: are for Trump. Look, I know there are reasons for that,
39:33
Speaker 1: and I don't diss them, but some of this is
39:35
Speaker 1: straight up misogyny. Some of it is straight up patriarchy.
39:38
Speaker 1: And what's ironic to me is that some black men
39:40
Speaker 1: who don't want a woman being a pastor of their church,
39:43
Speaker 1: and trust me, I preach in these churches might now
39:46
Speaker 1: end up having a woman as president of the United
39:49
Speaker 1: States of America. Ain't that God in a pan souit
39:53
Speaker 1: in high heels, you know? And look, Barack Obama was
39:57
Speaker 1: Jackie Robinson. Jackie Robinon's great quality. He was a great ballplayer.
40:03
Speaker 1: He had tremendous skill, but his greatest skill was his
40:06
Speaker 1: ability to endure white supremacy and give it a licking
40:11
Speaker 1: while he kept doing what he's doing, kept doing what
40:14
Speaker 1: he was doing without being angry.
40:16
Speaker 5: Or resentful to the point I wanted you to get
40:18
Speaker 5: to go ahead, right.
40:20
Speaker 1: I think Kamala Harris is Willy Mays. Willie Mays came
40:23
Speaker 1: along a few years after Jackie Robinson, equally talented, really,
40:27
Speaker 1: let's be real, far more talented, and had a joy
40:31
Speaker 1: what they call a joa devive. He had a joyfulness
40:34
Speaker 1: about and a confidence. But that confidence that Willie Mays
40:36
Speaker 1: could express even though he was subject to the arbitrary
40:39
Speaker 1: women caprice of white supremacy and segregation, but he was
40:42
Speaker 1: freer because of the sacrifice of Jackie Robinson. So the
40:46
Speaker 1: joy of Kamala Harris grows from the hope of Barack Obama.
40:49
Speaker 1: Because Barack Obama had hope. Now Kamala Harris can have joy.
40:55
Speaker 1: And she is Willie Mays in high heels and she's
40:57
Speaker 1: stepping and I continue to support and love that woman
41:00
Speaker 1: because she represents the best of who we.
41:02
Speaker 3: Are, Michael Eric Dice, Ladies and gentlemen, that's right.
41:04
Speaker 4: Represent the unfinished fight for the vote is available everywhere
41:07
Speaker 4: you buy books right now.
41:08
Speaker 3: That's right, and we appreciate you for joining us this morning.
41:11
Speaker 1: Love y'all, keep doing the great work. That's right. It's
41:13
Speaker 1: the Breakfast Club.
41:14
Speaker 3: It's Michael Eric Dice.
41:15
Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club.