Latest / LAUNCH: Parenting Tips for Raising Adult Children & Building Better Relationships / #21: The Parenting Shift from Coach to Advisor: How to Communicate with Your Adult Child to Build a Lifelong Friendship

Transcript

#21: The Parenting Shift from Coach to Advisor: How to Communicate with Your Adult Child to Build a Lifelong Friendship · LAUNCH: Parenting Tips for Raising Adult Children & Building Better Relationships

0:00
SPEAKER_02: I'm Sherry Jonas, and this is Launch, a podcast that offers parenting advice for raising adult children and building better relationships with them.
0:08
SPEAKER_02: On today's episode, I have the good fortune of speaking with Toby's Cloud and his daughter Bailey Garner from Kobe Ministry.
0:15
SPEAKER_02: In this episode, we're diving into a conversation about the best strategies for communicating with your adult childhood.
0:21
SPEAKER_02: Specifically, how do you shift from being a coach when they're young to an advisor as they become adults?
0:28
SPEAKER_02: Toby is a pastor, author, and mental health advocate with over 35 years of ministry experience.
0:34
SPEAKER_02: Toby and his wife Micah are the founders of BeAkobi.com, a faith-based platform dedicated to providing tools to local churches and resources to families with a focus on helping parents and adult children to live emotionally healthier lives.
0:48
SPEAKER_02: His daughter Bailey is the director of Key Relationships Acobi Ministries, where she works closely with churches, schools, and families, coordinating events, building meaningful partnerships, and helping the family to share their message.
1:00
SPEAKER_02: Now, before we jump in, just a quick heads up.
1:03
SPEAKER_02: I apologize in advance for the sound quality on my end.
1:06
SPEAKER_02: Something went a little sideways in the recording process, and I sound a bit wonky, but don't worry.
1:11
SPEAKER_02: This conversation is very insightful and so worth listening to.
1:15
SPEAKER_02: So let's get started.
1:16
SPEAKER_03: Welcome Toby and his daughter to this podcast.
1:21
SPEAKER_03: I'm really excited to have you both here.
1:24
SPEAKER_03: So thank you for joining me.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: Hey, I could not wait to get on here after you and I spent some time talking.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: This is gonna be a lot of fun.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm excited.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: I feel like I get to learn from both of you and then just give a little perspective of the not the parent, but the child that's an adult role.
1:43
SPEAKER_03: So the topic of today's conversation is best practices for communicating with your adult child.
1:51
SPEAKER_03: I think, Toby, we we got this coach versus advisor from you when we talked about.
1:57
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if I saw this on that video that you did, but it somehow that became like a great way to explain to parents the different roles that you have to play in this process.
2:10
SPEAKER_03: We're going to talk about today understanding the difference between coach and advisor, because I do love those two different analogies.
2:17
SPEAKER_03: Moment to make the transition.
2:20
SPEAKER_03: That's very important.
2:21
SPEAKER_03: Some of the challenges that parents are facing, because I think that is a huge point for parents, is that okay, I understand the two, but how do I get there?
2:31
SPEAKER_03: But I always talk about uh strategies, actionable steps.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: That's the struggle, Sherry, right?
2:37
SPEAKER_00: The struggle is we spent all of these years uh honing our expertise as parents of kids, you know, that are growing up in our home.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: We all read Dr.
2:49
SPEAKER_00: Spa, you and I, at least our generation, you know, we read the books, we got ready.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's hard for sometimes when we reach our age, you and I are the same age this season to understand there's a whole new skill to learn.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: And it's something it's you can't rely on, you can build off of the past, but you can't rely on it.
3:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh, because this is brand new.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: It's a brand, yeah.
3:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know how to be a coach, I'm pretty good at it, but the advisor consultant side of that, that's that's it.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: I've never been there before.
3:19
SPEAKER_03: Right.
3:20
SPEAKER_03: You know, I want to uh share a little story with you guys not that long ago, a couple weeks ago, I went to see my son in Florida, and uh we were talking.
3:29
SPEAKER_03: We had a we go through these long walks, my kids and I.
3:33
SPEAKER_03: And it's just a great opportunity for us to just talk, just free flow.
3:37
SPEAKER_03: And we we touched on a topic that got a little heated.
3:40
SPEAKER_03: I did a video about this week, it got a little heated, and I I reacted, and I was so sorry the minute I had that reaction.
3:48
SPEAKER_03: And I basically, after a few hours, I I turned to him and I said, I want you to know that I don't know always what I'm doing.
3:58
SPEAKER_03: I I apologize, obviously.
3:59
SPEAKER_03: And then I said, I just even though you think I've been doing this for 30 years, he's 30, I'm still figuring it out.
4:07
SPEAKER_03: I'm still figuring out how to be your parent to a to a 30-year-old.
4:11
SPEAKER_03: Because you're my child, I have to give you the same courtesy and respect and same tone that I would to an adult.
4:19
SPEAKER_03: I want you to know that.
4:20
SPEAKER_03: I don't always know what I'm doing.
4:23
SPEAKER_03: I don't always get it right.
4:24
SPEAKER_03: I'm learning as I go.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: You saying that, uh we talked about this last time we chatted.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: You know, you opened the door for then your son to say, Well, I don't always know how to be an adult child either, you know.
4:37
SPEAKER_01: And I I mean, I shared this story recently too about a time my dad told me he was sorry when I was young, like I don't know, nine years old.
4:44
SPEAKER_01: And we had an argument and he came in my room and apologized.
4:47
SPEAKER_01: And I don't, and it like the impact that it made on me.
4:50
SPEAKER_01: Cause and then it now I think about that as a parent who has young kids.
4:54
SPEAKER_01: And so I think about you saying that to your son, just opens the door for him to remember that and to say that to his kids one day, but also realize, like, oh, I'm still learning how to be in this role as well.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: Your child, but an adult, you know what I mean?
5:08
SPEAKER_01: I do, I do.
5:09
SPEAKER_03: And it's interesting because you remember that.
5:12
SPEAKER_03: You remember your father being an adult, being your father, and saying sorry.
5:17
SPEAKER_03: And it must have made you feel so good.
5:19
SPEAKER_03: You know, yeah.
5:20
SPEAKER_01: Well, and I think we put our parents on a pedestal, so we think they should be perfect.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: So when they acknowledge that they're not, it takes some of the pressure away of us too as an adult.
5:29
SPEAKER_01: Now, oh, it's okay if I mess up too.
5:31
SPEAKER_01: Because dad and I still have a great relationship, you know, now as adults.
5:35
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
5:36
SPEAKER_03: For the listener, because this is your thing, would you please explain the difference between being a coach and being an advisor?
5:44
SPEAKER_00: Well, a coach, and of course, I use a sports analogy.
5:47
SPEAKER_00: You and I both coach, you know, adults, uh, parents, uh in their way they relate to their kids.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: But I think of it in sports.
5:55
SPEAKER_00: And for me, in sports, the coach he set the schedule, he laid out the expectations, uh, and he called the place.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: He was the one that called the place, and he had the authority to put you in or take you out of the game.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: And I think that is a pretty good picture, uh, in a positive or negative way, depending on which extreme you find yourself in.
6:18
SPEAKER_00: But that's our job.
6:19
SPEAKER_00: Our job is to set our kids up for success.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: They're 10, 12, 14.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: We know more about life than them.
6:25
SPEAKER_00: And so we uh we want to guide them, we want to call the plays in their life.
6:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, Bailey was not excited, my son either, when there were times I said, we're gonna go to bed at this time or we're gonna do that.
6:37
SPEAKER_00: I call the play because at that point they didn't understand how important rest was for whatever their challenge was the next day, and that's what a coach does.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: A coach calls the plays and has a whistle.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: You know, uh an advisor, a consultant, they don't call the place.
6:55
SPEAKER_00: Uh the the client calls the place, and I always say that what uh advisor does best is he offers advice when asked, when asked, and then he doesn't own the result of whether their client takes that advice or not.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: My financial advisor can lay out for me if I go to him and say, Can you help me teach me uh the right way to invest my money for my future?
7:24
SPEAKER_00: But he doesn't own whether I do it or not.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: He doesn't call me and say, Hey, you're not doing it.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: That's up to me.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: I've got to make those decisions, and that's the difference I think between parenting a child uh, you know, that's in their school years at home, where you're coaching them and consulting them.
7:42
SPEAKER_00: It's been the greatest challenge of my adult life is being quick to listen and slow to speak.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: Because come on, Sherry, you and I, the wisdom we have, people think wisdom is intelligence.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: It's not, it's uh it's dumb tax we paid from mistakes we made.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: That's what wisdom really is.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: It's any wisdom I have is I did something I had a negative consequence from because pain is our greatest teacher.
8:07
SPEAKER_00: We'll get back to that later, I'm sure.
8:10
SPEAKER_00: And that pain caused me to redirect my course to do things differently.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and that's what wisdom is.
8:18
SPEAKER_00: And we we want to give it to our to our adult children when they're ready to receive it.
8:24
SPEAKER_00: I I really wasn't to Bailey at 13.
8:27
SPEAKER_00: I use her more than Ross because she's just like me.
8:30
SPEAKER_00: But the difference is, you know, at 13, she wasn't coming to me asking me what she ought to do.
8:37
SPEAKER_00: I was watching her off and telling her, hey, here's what I here's what we're going to do.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: As an adult, I've got to build this healthy, what I call an adult friendship in a way where they believe that my wisdom is going to help them avoid some of the pain that they act.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes when they don't take my advice, uh, I know what's coming.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: And it's not my job to shape them as adults.
9:06
SPEAKER_00: It's my job to allow pain to shape them and be there to encourage them, support them, and help them, even where their decisions don't match the decisions that I would have them make.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: And that's really hard.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: It's so fun to talk about with you, even with Bailey on.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: But then when you're let me tell you my first example of that, that Bailey gets embarrassed, but it's hilarious to me.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: I talked about it in a parenting workshop this weekend.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: Bailey has her first child, they're at her house.
9:33
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, Gideon's like two.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: And my wife, they call her honey, is holding him and he's taking his cup and dropping on the ground.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: He thinks it's hilarious.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: And she picks it up a couple of times, and then she says, he drops it again.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: She says, No, no, Gideon, we're not gonna do that.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: And Bailey comes over to her and says, says that oh, 23, 24-year-old mom, uh, mom, we try not to tell him no.
9:58
SPEAKER_00: Uh we found that when we tell him no, it just makes him want to do it more.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: And I was so proud of my wife.
10:05
SPEAKER_00: This is the perfect example of an advisor.
10:07
SPEAKER_00: She said, Okay, handed Gideon to Bailey, walked out in the backyard with me and turned around and said, Who the hell is this girl and what house did she grow up in?
10:18
SPEAKER_00: Right.
10:18
SPEAKER_00: But she didn't say it to her, right?
10:21
SPEAKER_00: She didn't say it to her.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: I always tell people, keep your mouth closed, smile, nod, and go grop about it to your friends.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: Right.
10:29
SPEAKER_00: Six months later, that not telling Gideon no was out the window.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: Why?
10:34
SPEAKER_00: Because she experienced the pain of not telling him no, right?
10:39
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and she she needed to discover that for herself.
10:43
SPEAKER_00: So that's a great advisor.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: Hey, I'm gonna lay out a plan, and when you have a better idea than I do, go ahead and do it, and then I'll be here.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: I will not say I told you so.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: I'll just be here to support you when that pain causes you to make it make a different decision.
11:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
11:01
SPEAKER_03: So I think one of the biggest distinctions about being an advisor is that only when they ask.
11:07
SPEAKER_03: Right.
11:08
SPEAKER_03: Only when they ask.
11:09
SPEAKER_00: So sure, here was my as a as a parent of an adult child, and Bailey, I I I don't I don't have to say this, but feel free to jump in.
11:18
SPEAKER_00: Like people say define success.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: Success for me was I wanted to live with my adult children in such a way that they they wanted to come to me for advice.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: That's the end goal.
11:31
SPEAKER_00: The end goal is that they're they are independent, but there there are times in significant life decisions, and sometimes insignificant ones.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: But like I get emotional thinking about the times that any of my four kids have called and said, hey, thinking about making this financial decision, this job change, whatever it was.
11:52
SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
11:54
SPEAKER_00: To me, that's the win.
11:55
SPEAKER_00: That means, okay, we're making progress here.
11:57
SPEAKER_00: We're not perfect, but there is some progress happening here.
12:01
SPEAKER_03: That's huge.
12:02
SPEAKER_03: And it's um it's funny that you say that because it's kind of like this is part of that conversation.
12:09
SPEAKER_03: But I just finished an episode where I wrote the art of raising a child, an adult child who wants to hang out, hang around with you.
12:18
SPEAKER_03: Because, and and that's the same thing.
12:19
SPEAKER_03: If they're hanging around with you and they're adult children, they like your company, they respect you, they confide in you.
12:25
SPEAKER_03: You are their friend.
12:26
SPEAKER_03: And I think every parent wants that.
12:28
SPEAKER_03: I imagine every parent wants that feeling when they have an adult child, once they get past so many of the other challenges is that you know, you've you've done a great job, not only when they are confident and independent and resilient, but when they turn to you and say, hey, what do you what do you think about this?
12:45
SPEAKER_03: Love that.
12:46
SPEAKER_03: So we've got a pretty good understanding of coach versus advisor.
12:51
SPEAKER_03: When do we transition?
12:53
SPEAKER_03: I think there's more factors to consider when you transition from coach to advisor.
12:57
SPEAKER_03: So I want to ask you the question and then and then I'll share with you what I think.
13:02
SPEAKER_03: But when do when is that transition made or a parent?
13:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I I think there's more than one answer, Sherry.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: I think like you and I may, I don't know what you're gonna say, honestly.
13:11
SPEAKER_00: And we may say totally different things and both be right, you know.
13:14
SPEAKER_00: For me, you know, kind of the easiest answer that makes most logic to me is when it when a child becomes financially independent.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: Because again, we're we're training our kids as they grow to leave us.
13:30
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we want them to be independent adults.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: Well, there's no there's nobody in America I know that gets paid from somebody that that person doesn't have the right to have some authority in their life.
13:42
SPEAKER_00: I've never had a boss say, Hey, you go do what you want, right?
13:45
SPEAKER_00: And so if I want to train my child who's growing up in my home, Bailey one time informed me when she was in college that she was gonna drop a class.
13:54
SPEAKER_00: And I said, No, you're not.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: And she said, I'm an adult, you can't tell me what to do.
13:59
SPEAKER_00: And I said, I'm putting the bill for you to go to school.
14:02
SPEAKER_00: When you start writing the checks, you don't have to receive any counsel from me.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: You can do whatever you want to do.
14:07
SPEAKER_00: And so the easy shift for me is when there is financial independence.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: The rub here is is children that are living, adult children who are living in their parents' home, uh they want that independence in every way but financially.
14:27
SPEAKER_00: And if we're really doing them a disservice if we just go where they're adult, I really can't have any boundary, I really can't have any rules, right?
14:35
SPEAKER_00: And so to me, it's an easy uh not easy, it's a clean way to think about when when am I truly gonna move into this role of advisor?
14:45
SPEAKER_00: And it's when they become financially independent.
14:47
SPEAKER_03: Got it.
14:48
SPEAKER_03: So that was that's it.
14:50
SPEAKER_03: I have, you know, coach, you're a coach when they're financially dependent and living at home.
14:55
SPEAKER_03: You're an advisor when they go away to school, when they move out, when they're financially independent.
15:04
SPEAKER_03: And because so many kids, young adults, are still living at home because of the economy, as long as they're financially independent, contributing to the home, um, then you are an advisor.
15:18
SPEAKER_03: Let's talk about when they so the for the parents that has the adult child living at home and is not struggling.
15:24
SPEAKER_03: They are financially independent, they're even contributing.
15:27
SPEAKER_03: You are now an advisor.
15:29
SPEAKER_03: Is that correct?
15:30
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I think so.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: Although, you know, I I would say that there is this, there's other parts of independence in the financial part of that as well, right?
15:39
SPEAKER_00: And so a part of that is honestly a part of it is we haven't built as adult parents, we haven't built lives outside of our kids.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: And so we we we want them to be there.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: It's it borders on the edge of, you know, we're our happiness is dependent upon theirs, which we both know isn't healthy.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: And so if a child is living at home, they are financially independent, then at some point in time there needs to be a plan for them to be relationally independent in that they have this kind of relationship you and I both want with our kids, but they do have they are building a bit of independence in their life as well.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: But but the truth is that advisor role, as long as as long as you aren't just roommates, but they're living in your home and paying their part of it, that's only gonna last so long for most people because the you know, like you said, boundaries.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: We taught we teach here at GoBo, we had courses on boundaries.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: Most people think boundaries are like uh prohibitive or negative, they can be the most positive thing in the world as long as both people respect the same fence line.
16:49
SPEAKER_03: Right.
16:50
unknown: Right.
16:51
SPEAKER_03: And it's a whole other topic, boundaries, but just touching on it for a second.
16:54
SPEAKER_03: I know what you mean.
16:54
SPEAKER_03: I think what you're trying to say is there's there's, let's say, household rules, household boundaries.
16:59
SPEAKER_03: You know, I I get up early, go to work, you you and if if if you have a job that starts later, that doesn't mean that you can just walk in and be noisy and everything.
17:08
SPEAKER_03: You have to respect my life, my, my, my working hours.
17:13
SPEAKER_03: So there's household rules and boundaries.
17:16
SPEAKER_03: And then there's also, you know, other boundaries, just the the monegotiables that I have.
17:21
SPEAKER_03: Some parents can say, well, if they're if they're paying their balls and they're independently living, can they can they drink at home?
17:28
SPEAKER_03: Can they smoke weed?
17:30
SPEAKER_03: Can they do whatever they want to do?
17:32
SPEAKER_03: But if that's a boundary that I as a person hold that I that I that's not comfortable for me, then you know, we're not equals anymore.
17:41
SPEAKER_03: You're still living in my home.
17:42
SPEAKER_03: I know we're paying, but I am not comfortable with that.
17:46
SPEAKER_03: Right?
17:46
SPEAKER_03: So those those are the personal boundaries.
17:49
SPEAKER_03: You know, even just being disrespectful or or talking back to me, I will not tolerate that.
17:55
SPEAKER_03: I don't care if I'm advising you, if you're paying your own bills, there are personal boundaries that you cannot cross.
18:02
SPEAKER_03: And and I do agree that it's very neutral and that, but that's also communication, right?
18:08
SPEAKER_03: Like if you're you're living with your outer child and they are not being respectful, regardless of their situation, you have to sit down and communicate with them and say, this is these are my expectations on how I want to be treated, and I will do the same for you.
18:22
SPEAKER_03: I won't come busting into your room, regardless of, you know, uh, I'll still knock on your door and same thing.
18:29
SPEAKER_03: So, but I know bank juice is such a big topic that I don't want to like, okay, should we talk about it or not talk about it?
18:34
SPEAKER_03: But because we're talking about children moving at home, it's always worth you know talking about.
18:39
SPEAKER_00: Well, here's a another picture that that I don't want to muddy the water here, but another picture is I like to talk about in terms of what when your children are growing up in your house, we've heard a million times, you don't your kid doesn't need a friend, they need a parent, and that's true.
18:57
SPEAKER_00: But when your child leaves your home or is financially independent, they don't need a parent, they need a friend.
19:06
SPEAKER_00: And so think about build everything you just said of this analogy.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: What would you do with a with a in a healthy friendship with someone else?
19:15
SPEAKER_00: You wouldn't bust in their room, yeah, right?
19:18
SPEAKER_00: You you wouldn't demand to know where they were at all times, you know, you wouldn't track them on your phone.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: Why?
19:23
SPEAKER_00: Because y'all wouldn't be friends anymore, it'd be an unhealthy friendship.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: And I'm trying to build healthy friendships with my adult kids.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: I'll always be dad.
19:33
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and there's some honor that comes with that as the you kind of the patriarch of the family, but that's given.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's earned, it's not it's not demanded, because first and foremost, Bailey is an adult who is my friend, and I want to be a good friend to her, and she wants to be a good friend to me.
19:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I love that.
19:54
SPEAKER_03: So let's talk about why it is so hard for parents to do to go from coaching to advising.
20:04
SPEAKER_03: Why do they struggle so much with it?
20:07
SPEAKER_03: Again, I have my and we're so far we're on agreement, we're in agreement, which we know a little bit that we are gonna be that way, but I think, and if you want to you agree or disagree, I think the problem my parents have trouble letting go is three aspects.
20:21
SPEAKER_03: They're all kind of related, but it's trust, control, and confidence.
20:30
SPEAKER_03: And you know, right?
20:32
SPEAKER_03: Okay, you wanna you wanna go go off on that and and show that?
20:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'll just let me tell you, I was would have picked one.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: I believe I I'm with you on all three, but it's control to the most point.
20:43
SPEAKER_00: We don't like to be out of control, no one does, and none of us want to admit in the heat of the moment that control is an illusion, anyway.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: But we desperately cling to what we do not have, and there there are parts of our kids' lives.
21:02
SPEAKER_00: The reason we want to keep being the coach is because we like calling the place, we like knowing the result, the outcome based upon our control of the situation, and uh it is terrifying that's the word, in a way that most people don't want to admit.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: It's terrifying to recognize the fact that you don't have control.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: Let me tell you something, Sherry.
21:26
SPEAKER_00: I walk this little girl down the aisle, and I I ceased to be the most important man in her life for the first time in 22 years.
21:38
SPEAKER_00: How hard.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's uh I people said I watched you walk her down the aisle, I walked her down the aisle, then turn around and and perform the ceremony.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: They said, You look pained.
21:47
SPEAKER_00: I said, I was I was excited for her.
21:50
SPEAKER_00: I love her husband.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: Uh pretty much like him more than her at this point, is what I'll tell her.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: But I mean, think about that moment.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Where like all of a sudden, you're not the most important person in their life anymore.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm not supposed to be the most important man in her life.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: And uh that's what a lot of us are facing.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: And here's the thing I'll again not get ahead.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: I have a great relationship with him.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: What happens when your child is in some kind of romantic relationship with another adult and they don't like you and you don't like them?
22:29
SPEAKER_00: Now it's really gets convoluted because in this age we're in of estrangement, there's no contact rule.
22:37
SPEAKER_00: The stories I'm hearing as I travel around the country is it's all about the in-law kid.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: You know, she never liked me.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: She's turned him against me.
22:46
SPEAKER_00: He he he uh he's keeping me away, uh he's keeping me from seeing my daughter and my grandkids.
22:52
SPEAKER_00: It's it's that other relate.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: That's what a lot of times I'm hearing is causing estrangement.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: And it's because there's a place in these in mamas and daddies' hearts that want what they had all those years they were raising there.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: And coming to that realization and learning to respond and react differently, again, it takes time.
23:16
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know who I condescend to believe in that that's supposed to be easy.
23:23
SPEAKER_00: It's not right.
23:24
SPEAKER_00: I mean it's just it's hard.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: I always say Sherry, I talked to this for years, that parenting is a series of painful releasings from the first time you let go of their hands to walk to the first time you toss them the keys to you take them to college and come home and go, what do I do now?
23:46
SPEAKER_00: To walking them down the aisle or watching them walk down the aisle.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: It's all a series of painful releasings.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: I think it's supposed to be hard.
23:53
SPEAKER_00: It's a you know, it's just such a beautiful relationship that that releasing, I mean, and at I think the difference with adult children is all those like I'm I'm keying off of what you said.
24:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm amening you in that you practice all along the way, right?
24:12
SPEAKER_00: And every one of those is training for the next one.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: Uh and I I I know people don't like me, like it when I use this word, but the this releasing of them into adulthood and independence, that's where the grief comes.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: You know, you there's a season I had to grieve that season.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: I I wasn't all these things that I'm talking about.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: I got wisdom because I I made some dumb calls and decisions.
24:38
SPEAKER_00: I b uh, you know, I operated out of my emotions the first couple of years.
24:42
SPEAKER_00: Uh my kids being out of my home and on their own with their mates.
24:46
SPEAKER_00: And uh had to learn from the pain of that.
24:49
SPEAKER_00: No, I gotta, I gotta recalibrate what the goal is here and how we're gonna operate.
24:54
SPEAKER_00: I gotta learn a new skill.
24:56
SPEAKER_01: But you didn't give up when it got hard, you know.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: I think parents, I think I I hope adult parents would keep trying, you know, and also know that we need your relationship because I've seen other parents who completely once um two adults get married, then the parents just completely step back because they're scared of overstepping, you know.
25:21
SPEAKER_01: And so therefore their relationship dwindles because they're not they're trying to not step on any toes, you know.
25:29
SPEAKER_01: I think it can swing both ways.
25:31
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's I think I I hope uh parents of adult kids know that we still need you.
25:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's okay to say like I'm messed up, like we've talked about already, you know, and like continue trying and not just give up.
25:46
SPEAKER_01: Because when if when your kids were little, you wouldn't really have that choice.
25:49
SPEAKER_01: But I think when they become adults, you think there's a choice, but it's still very important to the relationship, you know?
25:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
25:56
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
25:57
SPEAKER_03: And then thank you.
25:58
SPEAKER_03: I love that you said that, that you're giving you as an adult child are giving us permission to still play that, be a very important part in your life, be the advisor forever and ever.
26:10
SPEAKER_03: But that advisor role doesn't go away.
26:13
SPEAKER_03: So so that means that do we wait for you?
26:16
SPEAKER_03: Do we still or do we just treat you like friends and stay in touch with you?
26:20
SPEAKER_03: And I think so.
26:22
SPEAKER_03: Right.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: I think, I think, because I was thinking about that through everything you were talking about.
26:28
SPEAKER_01: On if you I love what dad said about if you view your adult child as a friend, how you would treat a friend, you know, how would you treat a friend even if you didn't necessarily agree with their spouse?
26:39
SPEAKER_01: You in this situation that dad was talking about, how would but how would you treat your friend?
26:44
SPEAKER_01: You know, you would still want to have that relationship.
26:47
SPEAKER_01: So you would try to create a relationship with their spouse, even if you didn't agree.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: You know, I think that's such a good lens to look through for sure, because it it takes away the emotional aspect of parent child, because that kind of is when it gets a little bit uncertain because you only know what you did when they were younger.
27:06
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
27:07
SPEAKER_03: It's funny because I'm right now I'm not I'm living apart from both my kids.
27:12
SPEAKER_03: I'm heading back home soon, but I'm living in a different um country and and whatever from my kids, um, and my best friend who I've known since I was 12.
27:23
SPEAKER_03: And I when we call each other, if whoever can answer at the time, no one's getting offended.
27:30
SPEAKER_03: It just means, and it doesn't matter if it's my best friend or my children, I treat them the same.
27:36
SPEAKER_03: What they know I texted, they know I called.
27:39
SPEAKER_03: When they can, they'll call me back.
27:41
SPEAKER_03: Let's create some scenarios for parents who, because there are parents that aren't listening that are either struggling with this process or they're ready to make the transition and they want to know how.
27:50
SPEAKER_03: So let's give a couple of scenarios.
27:53
SPEAKER_03: What your parents do when they're ready to pull back, but their child is still relying on them too much.
28:00
SPEAKER_03: So it's like the parent is ready, but the child is not.
28:04
SPEAKER_03: So, what advice would you have a parent in that situation?
28:08
SPEAKER_00: Well, I would say this is a great place to introduce some boundaries as a part of this conversation about your child.
28:17
SPEAKER_00: It's number one, don't resent the fact that they still want you to do their laundry because they're 21 years old, you've been doing their laundry, right?
28:26
SPEAKER_00: I mean, so a part of that is the anger that your child or frustration toward them, let's recognize we helped, you know, we we we helped make this soup that we're sipping at this moment, which gives us a lot more grace for them when we understand it's not their problem, it's our problem.
28:43
SPEAKER_00: And so I I that's where I would begin.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: It's like, hey, I know uh that let's just talk about laundry because that's easy, right?
28:51
SPEAKER_00: I know that uh, you know, for all these years I've done your laundry, I did you a disservice, really.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm sorry because I I didn't I took all of that responsibility on because if I loved you, but what I understand is really loving you is allowing you to do some of that yourself.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: And I need some more time for da-da-da that is being taken up in performing some of these household chores for you.
29:15
SPEAKER_00: And so I'm gonna I'm gonna make you a deal.
29:19
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna, we're gonna kind of divvy up what each one of us is gonna do.
29:23
SPEAKER_00: And I promise that I am not going to be critical as you learn how to do some of these things because I've been doing them for a long time.
29:31
SPEAKER_00: But I know you want to be independent, and I want you to be independent.
29:35
SPEAKER_00: And so we're gonna begin again at this season of your life.
29:39
SPEAKER_00: And look, can we sit down and talk about what that's gonna look like for each one of us?
29:44
SPEAKER_00: And you there's some give and take there where there's input, it's not edicts, it's input.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: You know, we're we're uh we're not preaching a sermon, we're having a conversation.
29:55
SPEAKER_00: There's no waffling on on the what, but there will be some some level of negotiation for lack of a better term, at the how, what that looks like.
30:05
SPEAKER_00: So if we can agree on the what, hey, you want to be independent, I want to be independent, uh, let's talk about what that's gonna look like.
30:12
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a way you begin in any area where they're expecting something from you that it's time for you not give anymore.
30:20
SPEAKER_03: It's not a bad idea for the parent who's going through this situation to actually explain the difference between I'm you I was your coach, right, and now I want to be your advisor.
30:29
SPEAKER_03: And this is what's gonna happen.
30:30
SPEAKER_03: So I think for it's it's maybe the takeaway, the other takeaway here is that maybe parents should be using that as a as a sit-down conversation, right?
30:39
SPEAKER_03: Because again, we're talking about communication.
30:42
SPEAKER_03: Child no, our adult children are not mind readers.
30:45
SPEAKER_03: They don't know, they don't like yet we're thinking, they don't know that we're struggling, they don't know what we're worried about.
30:51
SPEAKER_03: And so they don't know that there are changes that have to take place.
30:57
SPEAKER_03: And so we have to communicate with that.
30:59
SPEAKER_03: They won't know otherwise.
31:00
SPEAKER_03: So you, you know, screaming at them to to put their dishes in the dishwasher.
31:04
SPEAKER_03: Don't if you've told them a hundred times and they're not doing it.
31:07
SPEAKER_03: Now, at some point, now you have to still sit down and say, you know, it's actually disrespectful for you because I've told you already several times that it's important to me that as we're adults living in the same health, I don't have to do put your dishes in the dishwasher anymore.
31:20
SPEAKER_03: So again, we're going back to communication, effective communication.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: And here's sure, here's what's hard for people like you and me, I guarantee you, just from our brief relationship, is to let them sit there.
31:33
SPEAKER_00: Let those dishes sit there.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: Right?
31:35
SPEAKER_00: I got that little OCD gene in me, and especially when my anxiety kicks up, uh, it's because I feel out of control.
31:42
SPEAKER_00: So I'll control what I can and I'll put the dishes up, I'll clean the kitchen.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, you you've got to fight that urge.
31:51
SPEAKER_00: Quit playing the short game and learn how to play the long game, uh, which I think is so important in these situations.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: I talk to parents all the time of adult kids who say, I never want to go on vacation with my adult kid again.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: Why?
32:06
SPEAKER_00: Well, they just sat around watching TV expecting us to cook all the meals and clean everything up, and I need a vacation for my vacation when I get home.
32:13
SPEAKER_00: And it they're appreciative, they're but I said, Well, whose fault is that?
32:19
SPEAKER_00: I mean, they grew up with going on vacation and you and your mate, that's what you did.
32:25
SPEAKER_00: You sacrificed money and energy because that's what a good parent does.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: The rules have changed, the paradigm has changed, and you have to help them understand because you are, you know, you have more life experience than they do.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: And so my wife, Micah, is great about I think positive ways to set boundaries before uh we all get together in a holiday.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: She'll text the whole family and say, okay, I've got this meal, this meal, and this meal.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: I mean, these these many left.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: Who's gonna take these?
32:56
SPEAKER_00: And it's just like, hey, we're all in this together.
32:58
SPEAKER_00: There's an expectation that we're all gonna carry that together.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: And uh don't you think, Valley?
33:05
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think that's a that's a healthy way to begin to set those expectations.
33:09
SPEAKER_00: I call it the assumed close.
33:11
SPEAKER_00: You know, with my friend, friendship means I believe the best, not the worst.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: And so I'm going to believe that my kid, my children who are adults, they want to have a healthy relationship with me.
33:24
SPEAKER_00: So they don't want me to do all that.
33:26
SPEAKER_00: They're just not aware.
33:27
SPEAKER_00: So let's just make them aware.
33:29
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
33:31
SPEAKER_01: And I think I think it helps because sometimes I know I've been in situations, say we've been visiting you guys, and I'm in the role of being a mom to the little kids who are sucking me, you know, we're in we're not sleeping at the same house.
33:46
SPEAKER_01: It's like a lot of different um challenges when you're traveling.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm focusing on them and are they behaving and are they, and so it's hard for me to focus on how I should be helping you guys.
33:58
SPEAKER_01: And so to be clear of like, hey, I'd love help with cleaning up the kitchen, it's not um, it's helpful to be.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: I think we taught clarity is kindness, you know what I mean?
34:11
SPEAKER_01: Like I think it's it's instead of getting upset that that your adult child isn't helping, maybe they're literally trying to think about their kid not breaking anything in your house, you know, or or if they have kids.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: If they don't, then they might, you know, I think that it like it's just being completely clear on if you need help, you know, um because that's how you would ask a friend too, goes by to that.
34:36
SPEAKER_00: As an adult child, as an adult, your relationship with me has changed too, right?
34:40
SPEAKER_00: And so it's great if you say, How I want to go do this.
34:42
SPEAKER_00: Can you take Esther outside?
34:45
SPEAKER_00: Can you like that's that's healthy?
34:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's the give and take I'm talking about.
34:50
SPEAKER_00: And I think it took us a while to get there.
34:54
SPEAKER_00: But and a part of it was you get this stalemate, Sherry.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: It's like I'm sitting there, clarity is kindness, being unkind by just going, well, why aren't they up and helping?
35:05
SPEAKER_00: Why's why we haven't to do all of this?
35:08
SPEAKER_00: Well, but and they're over there going, do they not even recognize how that I got these three ankle biters that's got done up forever?
35:17
SPEAKER_00: And and so you just like that's what you do in friendships, you have clarifying conversations, believing the best about each other.
35:25
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you're not looking for a gotcha moment to prove your point.
35:30
SPEAKER_01: And I think like a like a red, not a red flag, but like the light on the dashboard is if you're feeling like resentment, you know, towards your adult child or vice versa, towards your parent.
35:41
SPEAKER_01: What's what why am I feeling that way?
35:43
SPEAKER_01: And have we had that conversation?
35:45
SPEAKER_01: Because if not, then you're having these expectations in your mind that you've not even communicated, you know.
35:50
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
35:51
SPEAKER_00: Right.
35:52
SPEAKER_03: Definitely.
35:54
SPEAKER_03: Uh, why I tell you a quick example of what some uh parents did when their uh young adults were not listening to them about the dishes.
36:03
SPEAKER_03: And all of the dishes ended up always being in their room when they were like, we don't know what to do.
36:07
SPEAKER_03: We can't we can't keep doing this.
36:09
SPEAKER_03: They're just forgetting, or they're so busy with their lives and they don't realize that their dishes are in the room and we don't want to keep bringing them in.
36:16
SPEAKER_03: The solution was they went to the dollar store, they bought an extra set of dishes, just one or two of everything, and they said, These are your dishes.
36:26
SPEAKER_03: That's what adulting is about.
36:28
SPEAKER_03: It's being responsible and uh for your own things and not taking advantage and and and coming and like just assuming that everything is yours that you can do.
36:37
SPEAKER_03: And it actually changed everything.
36:40
SPEAKER_03: It changed the whole dynamic.
36:41
SPEAKER_03: They understood.
36:42
SPEAKER_03: Let's talk about the opposite situation.
36:44
SPEAKER_03: So, what do you say to a parent who's scared to make the transition, who's scared to let that control go and start advising and not coaching, that the child is asking for it, the child is demanding it.
36:55
SPEAKER_03: Hey, I don't need you to do that for me anymore.
36:58
SPEAKER_03: I don't, you know, I come like I need you to make me the meals.
37:00
SPEAKER_03: I don't even need you to do to don't go in my room and make my bed and clean up my room.
37:04
SPEAKER_03: I don't need you to do that.
37:06
SPEAKER_03: So what do you say to the parent when it's the other way around?
37:09
SPEAKER_03: And they can't, they can't let their child, you know, become independent and have more responsibilities because they're a they're not ready yet, you know.
37:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and honestly, Sherry, this is what I hear more than the other way.
37:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's these out there, and as you I know, in our social media worlds, there's these two extremes.
37:32
SPEAKER_00: Uh, the the middle doesn't speak up as much, but I hear a lot more about kids who want to be more independent and their parents won't let them.
37:42
SPEAKER_00: And what I would say to them is you eat this elephant one bite at a time.
37:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm not asking you to let's just start with something, one small thing that you're not going to do.
37:55
SPEAKER_00: I would tell the the adult child that their responsibility is to have this conversation and hold their parent to it as well, right?
38:04
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but to the parent, I would say, you know, it's Andy is doing the same thing the same way a thousand times, expecting the next time to be different.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: And if you do everything for your child and they become an independent, productive member of society, you'll be the first.
38:18
SPEAKER_00: You know, that's happened to.
38:19
SPEAKER_00: And so here's the cost in your unwillingness to release control.
38:24
SPEAKER_00: Are you willing to pay that in the long term for the satisfaction you're getting in the short term of still being mama or daddy?
38:31
SPEAKER_00: It's just we just skip the steps, right?
38:34
SPEAKER_00: The sketch, the steps just get out of order.
38:37
SPEAKER_00: And this analogy we were talking about a moment ago, Bailey will tell you Papa likes to pay, Papa likes to cook for the whole family.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: Why?
38:46
SPEAKER_00: Because we've established these boundaries over the last few years where it wasn't always my job, and because no one's expecting it or feeling entitled to it, I am released to be Papa to all of them.
39:00
SPEAKER_00: And to I mean, come on, it's the reason I work so hard all these years.
39:07
SPEAKER_00: It's because I want my kids to enjoy it, you know, and that's my I mean, I don't differ from any other dad, mom.
39:17
SPEAKER_00: That's what you want.
39:19
SPEAKER_00: But when you get the steps out of order, you damage those relationships and you damage your child long term.
39:30
SPEAKER_00: So I want to tell, I do, I tell parents that I coach and help.
39:34
SPEAKER_00: I say, listen, I I want what you want.
39:37
SPEAKER_00: You just have the steps out of order, and to be able to do this, you have to do these things first because your helping is hurting your child's development.
39:47
SPEAKER_00: So that's the truth.
39:49
SPEAKER_00: As you can tell, I you know, I get emotional about it.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: I love my life with my wife and my two dogs, and we're gonna celebrate 40 years of marriage in a few weeks.
40:01
SPEAKER_00: Uh, she's my best friend, I love it.
40:04
SPEAKER_00: But I there is nothing on this planet beyond her that I value more than a relationship I had with my daughter and my grandkids and her family and my son's family.
40:13
SPEAKER_00: It's the greatest gift on the planet to me.
40:16
SPEAKER_03: I couldn't agree with you more.
40:18
SPEAKER_00: You just don't want to skip a step and not get what you wanted all along.
40:24
SPEAKER_03: 100%.
40:25
SPEAKER_03: You know, you made me a little uncomfortable before.
40:31
SPEAKER_03: Because I'm a little bit like I'm still at that stage where my two kids, my two kids are not like married.
40:37
SPEAKER_03: They're still, they're still they're still my best friends, and I hadn't been replaced.
40:43
SPEAKER_01: Right.
40:43
SPEAKER_03: And you're making you like, I don't want to worry about what happens when my kids w end up with their partners, their partner's better like me.
40:50
SPEAKER_01: I think dad shared the story before, maybe, but you should tell her about when you talked to my to Grant when we were when we got when he would ask you if he could propose to me.
41:02
SPEAKER_00: So he said, Can I marry your daughter?
41:05
SPEAKER_00: Which I know who's gonna ask me though.
41:07
SPEAKER_00: I was kind of interested in to watch him score in for a minute and uh the most nervous I've ever seen him.
41:12
SPEAKER_00: And I said, You can you can marry her under two conditions.
41:17
SPEAKER_00: And I said, the first condition is you're gonna help me learn how to be a father-in-law, because I don't know how to do it.
41:23
SPEAKER_00: I just know how to be a dad.
41:25
SPEAKER_00: And so I don't know, like I don't want to try to, I don't want to get in your way of being the leader in your home.
41:31
SPEAKER_00: And uh I said, that's a big one for me.
41:35
SPEAKER_00: And the second one is that you you you want to be my son because it's you and Bailey, it's not no longer Bailey, and there's Bailey and then there's Grant.
41:46
SPEAKER_00: You are my kids, both of you together.
41:49
SPEAKER_00: And so I'm not picking sides, I'm picking both of you.
41:54
SPEAKER_00: And if you're comfortable with that, then you y'all can get married.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: And uh there have been times that's that sounds great on paper, and then you know, your son-in-law comes to you and says, I don't know how to deal with Bailey, she's da-da-da-da-da.
42:08
SPEAKER_00: And you want to defend your, you know, this is my blood, but you know what?
42:12
SPEAKER_00: You live with that commitment, and and uh you help him help her in that role, and those that I think that meal when he was asking for hand, I think uh that may have been the most productive meeting I ever had with him because he saw that I wasn't opposed.
42:36
SPEAKER_00: I actually wanted uh to be involved in the process that he took the lead in.
42:43
SPEAKER_03: First of all, Toby, I just learned something from you.
42:45
SPEAKER_03: So thank you.
42:46
SPEAKER_03: Because now I know how I'm gonna deal with the situation.
42:49
SPEAKER_03: Because, first of all, no one's gonna ask me my permission.
42:52
SPEAKER_03: That's just not the system that we have in place, but I will I will want to sit down with my future daughter-in-law or son-in-law and say, I don't know how to be an in-law.
43:03
SPEAKER_03: I love that.
43:04
SPEAKER_03: And so I I want to learn how to do that with you.
43:07
SPEAKER_03: Let's figure this out together.
43:09
SPEAKER_03: You're I'm your mother-in-law, and you're gonna be my uh son-in-law or daughter-in-law.
43:15
SPEAKER_03: Let's work on this together.
43:16
SPEAKER_03: Let's be the best versions because it was gonna make their life easier if you and I get along.
43:22
SPEAKER_03: And, you know, I'm not, I don't, you know, I think that's grandchildren is a whole other story, right?
43:26
SPEAKER_03: When we grandchildren come in, like now it's like a little bit of a tug of war.
43:29
SPEAKER_03: You have to stand back.
43:30
SPEAKER_03: You don't want to, you know, there's other in-laws in involved, but one step at a time.
43:36
SPEAKER_03: But thank you for sharing that with me, because I will have that conversation in the future.
43:41
SPEAKER_03: And I think it's going to save us a lot of mistakes because we're all trying to figure this out every step of the way.
43:49
SPEAKER_03: That's that's what I think parents don't even understand.
43:51
SPEAKER_03: Is that, and I'm I want to touch on this for a second.
43:54
SPEAKER_03: I think there's a such a lack of confidence in parenting that what parents have to understand.
44:00
SPEAKER_03: Of none of us know what we're doing until we're doing it and we're willing to make mistakes, like our kids are going to make mistakes.
44:06
SPEAKER_03: But give yourself grace, learn from other people, get yourself a coach or a support group and figure this out.
44:13
SPEAKER_03: But for whatever you do, don't let that lack of confidence carry so far that you're that your kid is is there's mistakes being made.
44:22
SPEAKER_03: Don't be afraid of them.
44:23
SPEAKER_03: You have to stand back and go, wait a second.
44:25
SPEAKER_03: This is my kid.
44:26
SPEAKER_03: No one knows you better than you know your kid.
44:29
SPEAKER_03: And this is temporary, whatever we're going through.
44:32
SPEAKER_03: And so have some confidence that you're gonna do it, you're gonna get it right.
44:37
SPEAKER_03: Maybe not right away, but you're gonna get it right.
44:45
SPEAKER_00: And quit personalizing those forces.
44:48
SPEAKER_00: Like Grant was becoming the most important person in Bailey's life.
44:54
SPEAKER_00: But Grant is not, I'm not in competition with Grant, right?
44:58
SPEAKER_00: But for him to feel a little bit of that, because I had been her dad for all of these years, and she looked up to me.
45:05
SPEAKER_00: And I had to tell her, hey, do not expect uh 30 years of marriage, your your dad to be where you start with granny.
45:15
SPEAKER_00: You didn't see the ugly stuff, right?
45:16
SPEAKER_00: So this competition, like you're when your son gets married, uh there'll be a little, I watch this all the time.
45:24
SPEAKER_00: There's a little bit of under, it's just natural, it's being human that it's like, well, does she, you know, your your daughter and all is like, do you care?
45:32
SPEAKER_00: Does he care more about me or about his mom?
45:34
SPEAKER_00: And when he wimps out of setting boundaries with you that they have agreed upon, it just solidifies that.
45:41
SPEAKER_00: Don't put a face in that.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: Just understand that's a pressure that comes in this paradigm of learning how to parent adult kids.
45:50
SPEAKER_00: And so I've got to make sure that Grant knows, hey, we're not in competition, brother.
45:54
SPEAKER_00: We're on the same team, and my daughter-in-law has to know that as well.
45:59
SPEAKER_00: Hey, we love Ross.
46:01
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you're the most important one.
46:03
SPEAKER_00: Micah is not.
46:04
SPEAKER_00: How can we support and encourage you in that?
46:08
SPEAKER_00: But if she's feeling a little bit of that, that's natural.
46:11
SPEAKER_00: What 22, 23, 26, 30-year-old wouldn't feel that way after all that?
46:15
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're a great mom.
46:16
SPEAKER_00: We hear, I can tell just your heart for it.
46:20
SPEAKER_00: That's hard to live up to.
46:22
SPEAKER_00: And you have to recognize that and not instantly, I'm just weary of all the people on social media who are hammering me about the things I say.
46:32
SPEAKER_00: You don't understand she took him away from me.
46:35
SPEAKER_00: Well, hey, guess what?
46:38
SPEAKER_00: You made it feel like a competition and she won.
46:42
SPEAKER_00: But when when one when you win, Sherry, everybody loses.
46:49
SPEAKER_00: This needs to be something where we all win.
46:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
46:53
SPEAKER_00: Do you or do you want to be right?
46:55
SPEAKER_00: Or do you want to have a relationship?
46:58
SPEAKER_00: I would eat dirt to not be estranged for my grandkids.
47:04
SPEAKER_00: I'll swallow my pride.
47:06
SPEAKER_00: I'm not, I'm not gonna let somebody step on me, but I'll swallow my pride.
47:11
SPEAKER_00: I'll forgive 70 times seven.
47:15
SPEAKER_00: I'll believe the best.
47:17
SPEAKER_00: Why?
47:17
SPEAKER_00: Because I want those kind of relationships with those kids and with my family.
47:22
SPEAKER_00: I don't have to always be right, even though I'm most of the time I think I am.
47:27
SPEAKER_00: Just suck it up, buttercup, and why?
47:30
SPEAKER_00: Because I care so much about and honor and treasure those relationships when they're in healthy places.
47:37
SPEAKER_03: If you're making a bad choice in a partner or we're making a bad choice with a career move, what advice do you have for parents in that situation?
47:48
SPEAKER_00: Well, I would say a healthy relationship has honesty and respects disagreements.
47:55
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, a lot of times on you mentioned big ones, right?
48:02
SPEAKER_00: I mean, most of the time the the the rub comes in the smaller ones, right?
48:07
SPEAKER_00: And and the smaller ones, you know, they're gonna go buy a car beyond their means, and it means, you know, they're gonna be paying way more than they should be.
48:17
SPEAKER_00: Well, how do they learn?
48:18
SPEAKER_00: They don't learn by you telling them don't buy the car.
48:20
SPEAKER_00: They learn by having to eat beans for six months until they get out from an upside-down car.
48:26
SPEAKER_00: Like, let's not rob them of the chance to grow most of the time.
48:30
SPEAKER_00: And pain is where we all grow.
48:32
SPEAKER_00: Nobody says, I'm doing so great, I think I'll go work on my marriage or learn financial management skills.
48:39
SPEAKER_00: You do those things because you're in the pain of it not working well.
48:43
SPEAKER_00: So let pain be the teacher and quit trying to be the teacher.
48:46
SPEAKER_00: That's what an advisor does.
48:48
SPEAKER_00: But when it comes to some big things, like marrying the wrong person, you know it and you see it.
48:56
SPEAKER_00: I would say that I would say, hey, look, here's a couple of concerns I have, but I want you to know I'm gonna support whatever decision that you make.
49:04
SPEAKER_00: Uh, even if it leads to a place of pain that you never wanted to be in.
49:09
SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna say I told you so.
49:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be there for you.
49:13
SPEAKER_00: But because I love you and I want to have a relationship, I'm gonna tell you this is how I feel.
49:18
SPEAKER_00: And you don't have to argue me to your side.
49:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm on your side, even though I feel this way.
49:22
SPEAKER_00: And I'm uh I but I can't not tell you how I think this isn't the right decision for you.
49:32
SPEAKER_03: I like that.
49:33
SPEAKER_03: I like that.
49:34
SPEAKER_03: It's hard to hold it's hard when they're making such a serious decision and you can't speak your truth.
49:42
SPEAKER_03: Because that is us honor teaching them that it's okay to speak your truth, as long as when we speak it that you have that that you express yourself enough to say what you just said, I will respect whatever decision you make, but I have to say this.
49:57
SPEAKER_03: And I think that that's very fair.
50:00
SPEAKER_03: You know, I always like to leave on a positive note.
50:05
SPEAKER_03: And and you said it, you you said it in the beginning, but I'm gonna say it again.
50:09
SPEAKER_03: Our goal as parents is to build a relationship where our kids actually want us to be their advisor.
50:20
SPEAKER_03: I mean, they don't need us as much as the years go on and they they they develop their own wisdom.
50:25
SPEAKER_03: And but how can parents achieve that?
50:28
SPEAKER_03: And I know it's a hard question, and and but I think ultimately that is our goal, is that our children, like I wrote in that that episode I just did, it's an art.
50:38
SPEAKER_03: It's an art to say that my child an art firm, when you have to, when you can build a relationship with your children, well, they love to hang out with you, or you build a relationship with their children, but they always turn to you for advice.
50:50
SPEAKER_03: So, how do we help parents get there?
50:53
SPEAKER_00: Well, I would say the first thing is understand that it's rarely a straight line, it's usually a couple of steps forward and a couple of steps back.
51:03
SPEAKER_00: And that there's grace for you in the middle of the tension, the stress, the what seems like a failure, which is just a temporary setback in the development of this relationship.
51:17
SPEAKER_00: And so there's got to be some grace.
51:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, my father and I didn't do very well in my early 30s.
51:24
SPEAKER_00: And uh he's next month, he will be 91 years old, and he's one of my dearest friends.
51:30
SPEAKER_00: And it's an honor to serve him because the way he served me.
51:34
SPEAKER_00: Uh, setback does not mean the end of anything.
51:37
SPEAKER_00: So understand there are going to be setbacks.
51:40
SPEAKER_00: Number two, always begin with the end in mind.
51:44
SPEAKER_00: Be a long-term thinker.
51:46
SPEAKER_00: I encourage people to get a piece of paper and write down three to five things that when your children have children, and uh whether they have children or not, when your children are in their 40s, what do you want that relationship to look like?
52:04
SPEAKER_00: And then begin to make decisions through that filter of what you want to see long term, not what's happening in the moment.
52:14
SPEAKER_00: So you give yourself grace, you think long term, and you find someone else who's in the struggle to regularly communicate with.
52:24
SPEAKER_00: And I just love the friends I have that are going through the same thing.
52:28
SPEAKER_00: I, you know, I think you ought to have somebody behind you that you're helping, somebody that's in the same season you're in that you're bouncing things off of.
52:36
SPEAKER_00: And then you need somebody in front of you that's lived some of this before that can say, I know this is how this feels, but here's what's true.
52:45
SPEAKER_00: And if you have a plan, you have relationships, uh, and you give yourself some grace, it's gonna be okay.
52:53
SPEAKER_03: Yes, it is going to be okay.
52:55
SPEAKER_03: I knew when I was when I was raising my children that I always was gonna be their friend, best friends, if I could.
53:01
SPEAKER_03: I knew that.
53:02
SPEAKER_03: So that's great advice.
53:04
SPEAKER_03: Think long term, and yeah, it's like dancing, right?
53:08
SPEAKER_03: We're gonna step on each other's toes.
53:10
SPEAKER_03: But at the end, we're gonna get it right.
53:12
SPEAKER_03: We are gonna get it right because we won't stop trying until we do.
53:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:16
SPEAKER_00: People see the relationship that Belly and I have, other people in my either right behind me, usually in live stage, and they go, I just want that with my child.
53:26
SPEAKER_00: And they think it's because of all the great decisions I made.
53:30
SPEAKER_00: It's in spite of the poor decisions that I made.
53:34
SPEAKER_00: You know.
53:35
SPEAKER_00: Uh that's why I'm so passionate about it, is because I see what it can be and I know who I was.
53:42
SPEAKER_00: I know how many times I didn't get it right.
53:45
SPEAKER_00: And uh God got us through, you know.
53:47
SPEAKER_00: I mean, in the end, I uh it was his grace and it was a the I mean, a determined, like this is where I want to go.
53:58
SPEAKER_00: And it was God's that helped me along the way, man and women who helped us along the way that got us here.
54:03
SPEAKER_00: So some of you feel like you're losing right now.
54:06
SPEAKER_00: And understand that a setback is usually a setup for something better moving ahead.
54:14
SPEAKER_03: Oh, love, love, love that.
54:16
SPEAKER_03: I think we're gonna end on that beautiful note.
54:19
SPEAKER_03: That's fantastic, baby.
54:20
SPEAKER_03: You're so lucky.
54:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm very lucky, yes.
54:25
SPEAKER_01: No, I I love the relationship that dad and I have, and it's not perfect, but we work on it, and he's showed me that to never give up and it's important to him.
54:35
SPEAKER_01: So I I'm so thankful.
54:37
SPEAKER_01: It's one of my dearest relationships for sure.
54:40
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
54:40
SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you both so much.
54:42
SPEAKER_03: I I feel like a lot of parents will benefit a lot from this conversation.
54:47
SPEAKER_03: So thank you both.
54:48
SPEAKER_03: I I appreciate you guys being here.
54:50
SPEAKER_00: You for the opportunity.
54:52
SPEAKER_00: Love to chat with you anytime, Sherry.
54:53
SPEAKER_00: You're the best, you're one of the good ones out there.
54:55
SPEAKER_00: So anytime, any place.
54:58
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
54:58
SPEAKER_03: We are not done here.
54:59
SPEAKER_03: We will we will do this again and again until we keep sending getting that message out to parents because they do need us and we need each other.
55:06
SPEAKER_03: Thank you guys so much.
55:08
SPEAKER_03: It's been amazing.
55:09
SPEAKER_02: I hope today's episode gave you valuable insights and actionable steps that will help you guide your young adult to launch successfully into adulthood.
55:18
SPEAKER_02: If you found this topic helpful, feel free to leave a comment and hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode.
55:24
SPEAKER_02: Leaving a five-star review helps us reach more parents who are dealing with the same issues.
55:29
SPEAKER_02: And if there's something you want to ask me, I invite you to join Launch Advice, my weekly publication where I answer one question from parents just like you.
55:38
SPEAKER_02: It's free advice that will appear in your inbox probably when you need it the most.
55:42
SPEAKER_02: Just click Launch Advice in the show notes and don't forget to email me your confidential questions.
55:48
SPEAKER_02: And remember, no one ever said parenting is easy, especially when you're raising an adult.
55:53
SPEAKER_02: Talk to you soon.