Latest / FUTURE OF XYZ / Future of Customer Experience (CX) | Henry Kim | S7 E1

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Future of Customer Experience (CX) | Henry Kim | S7 E1 · FUTURE OF XYZ

• 00:00:04:00 - 00:00:39:02 Speaker 1 Hello and welcome to another new year and a new season of Future of XYZ. 2025 first episode is a super exciting topic. We are talking today with Henry Kim, who is the global head of design strategy in the CX office of Samsung Mobile Experience based in Seoul, South Korea, about the future of CX. Henry, thanks so much for joining us on this first episode of the New Year of season seven of Future of XYZ. 00:00:39:04 - 00:00:45:17 Speaker 2 Thanks for having me. I cannot be more honored and excited. So let's do this. 00:00:45:19 - 00:01:07:02 Speaker 1 Well, I mean, I want to obviously get into your background, but I'm going to start us out because I think most people are looking at this title saying like CX and your title is in the office of CX. So what is CX? How do we define customer experience, especially in the context of your expertise? 00:01:07:04 - 00:01:25:12 Speaker 2 Now, through my career, I have held multiple titles with a different job description. I have a bachelor's degree in graphic design, a master's degree in video communication. So obviously I'm graphic designer, a typographer, publication designer you know the old school, you know, stationery designer, poster design or whatever, I design everything. 00:01:25:14 - 00:01:48:20 Speaker 2 And after that, my first or second job was web designer, we don't use that term anymore. So I started my career as a face designer and in action design. I don't know if some of our listeners are old enough to remember Flash or CD-ROM. You know, I designed all those things too, and then the Premier, all this multimedia. 00:01:48:22 - 00:02:26:24 Speaker 2 So it evolved into a brand designer and also the term experience as a user became really popular and of course the UI UX became really popular. And to me, of course, experience is everything, but I'm not the biggest fan of the term like a customer experience because it’s very specific, like a term like the customer or the user, people, human and all this as a slightly different nuances. So companies use the term customer because, you know, do we serve the customer the way the commodity in product. Designers prefer user. 00:02:27:01 - 00:02:53:08 Speaker 2 But I like people. I like to say the human but I guess too big a word, but I like people. So to me, the end to end human experience, it depends on or it doesn't really matter whether it is a commercial or noncommercial. The goods and services that can be public infrastructure or could be cell phone experience or restaurant experience or a public transportation experience or healthcare. 00:02:53:10 - 00:03:14:23 Speaker 2 So because everything is designed, if you look around like everything is designed, my glasses are designed by someone, our clothing is also designed by someone. So everything's designed. That means a designer should design everything. Yeah. So a customer is not only people who pay for doing or they’re buying something. It’s more like an end to end 00:03:15:00 - 00:03:18:21 Speaker 2 human experience that exists in our lives. 00:03:18:23 - 00:03:46:22 Speaker 1 It’s super interesting. And you mentioned a little bit about your academic trajectory. I mean, you grew up in South Korea, but you came to the US certainly for undergrad. You have a degree, as you mentioned, a bachelor's in Fine Art from the University of Illinois, Chicago in graphic design. You end up getting your MFA, your Master's in Fine Art, as you mentioned, in visual communication from the Art Institute of Chicago, one of the best art schools in the United States, if not in the world. 00:03:46:24 - 00:04:06:11 Speaker 1 You then taught, I mean, you were the former associate chair of graphic design at SCAD, which is Savannah College of Art and Design, one of the best before going on to be the global design director at Coca-Cola in Atlanta. I mean, you are now at Samsung, but you've been across this breadth of people experience, let's call it, through design. 00:04:06:13 - 00:04:27:20 Speaker 1 I mean, when you think about, you know, we're going to stick with CX for the purpose of this conversation, but I understand, like is CX just about those customers, those clients, those consumers, those people, those humans, or are there other stakeholders who need to be considered? And are there different ways of thinking about that, given your experience in different places? 00:04:27:22 - 00:05:02:06 Speaker 2 That's an interesting question. You know, when I go to school and that what it's like the type of commodities. So I was told that the designers is one of the most sophisticated and civilized spaces and that we all like a design army, like the people who go really out there, it’s just unbearable. Like I was told that, okay, so we are design army, we go out and make world peace because people are so stupid. 00:05:02:11 - 00:05:31:10 Speaker 2 We have to teach them what is sophisticated life and everything. So that was my reality. And when I graduated with my graphic design degree, I had a list of 100 topography rules, you know. So something I shouldn't do, something I should do. So every dogma, it’s like a religion, almost like a design cult. I believe in the Bauhaus design cult. So anyway, so we believed we can make world peace. 00:05:31:12 - 00:06:00:14 Speaker 2 And then my career evolved in my current role. So I consider myself as an enterprise designer. Design is not the only thing that can save the company and save the world. The ideas is really, really important and essential, you know, the critical part of the entire organization. But we always need to work with the R&D and product planning, experience planning and a brand IMC, even procurement. 00:06:00:16 - 00:06:30:18 Speaker 2 So a lot of designers back then, I never thought that I needed to be able to read like Excel spreadsheet, you know, like data, you know, all of these things. But luckily I had another bachelor's degree in ecosystem engineering. So I have two different right sides of the brain. And so I have like this engineering side of the brain, very analytical and, you know, meticulous side. 00:06:30:20 - 00:06:55:23 Speaker 2 And then on the side and before I started design, I started feeling two. So I try to keep the balance between these two, the rationality and emotion, you know, how I can keep the balance between these two. That can help me to never hesitate to create my career journey to move into that's something very unexpected and very different because I believe that I could do that, you know? 00:06:56:00 - 00:07:14:08 Speaker 2 So in my setting, I always need to work with the other counterpart and the stakeholders because the design cannot be decided by design. You know, that's a different perspective from the way I was taught. Tell us that a good designer is to always be in charge of design. Nobody can say shit. Can I say shit? I don't know. 00:07:14:10 - 00:07:15:14 Speaker 1 Absolutely. 00:07:15:16 - 00:07:27:06 Speaker 2 Because we own this. So we are the only one who can make a decision. I'm not really sure because especially in my company without R&D is a support to design cannot even exist. 00:07:27:08 - 00:07:28:10 Speaker 1 Absolutely. 00:07:28:10 - 00:07:51:08 Speaker 2 A good design is not the surface or package of a technology but both the combination with the technology and service and design and the branding and marketing all together that create this best like a synthesis of everything. So when I think about design, especially customer experience design, it cannot be just one person all at one company, one perspective. 00:07:51:10 - 00:08:14:24 Speaker 2 That's why is it very difficult to create a real end to end experience. It sounds easy, everyone said we’re working end to end, but do people even know what end to end is, where it starts, where it ended. Not even in enterprise settings, one stakeholder cannot be in charge of everything. So my belief as an end to end designer is to talk to everybody, be able to speak every language. 00:08:15:02 - 00:08:45:17 Speaker 2 I cannot talk to my like R&D about the kerning or tracking or call it different hue or different saturation. So it sounds very foreign to them. And the way they talk to me of their language if I don't understand I cannot communicate right So we are designers we are communicators. If we fail to communicate with even someone who we work with, obviously our design won't be successful in terms of communicating what we are trying to provide to our customer. 00:08:45:19 - 00:08:55:12 Speaker 2 So for me, understanding and to be able to speak the language of our counterpart is essential, is very critical. I think it is what designers should practice more. 00:08:55:14 - 00:09:14:00 Speaker 1 Well, it's a super interesting perspective, Henry, and I appreciate you sharing that because I don't think it's something that we think about a lot. I don't think it's a lot of what designers think about, but it's certainly not what business people think about. I think design sometimes, as you said, either is put up on a pedestal or it's kind of like sloughed off. 00:09:14:01 - 00:09:37:22 Speaker 1 It's like, those designers, right? It's a creative thing. And the truth is that for customer experience, for a CX to be good, it is kind of all encompassing. And so you need to be able to wrap a 360 and in order to bring that to life, you have to be able to speak with all your business counterparts and your, as you said, your engineering R&D counterparts and your go to market and sales guides and all the, the whole caboodle. 00:09:37:24 - 00:09:47:18 Speaker 1 What is, there are all these various elements, but what is the role of branding in that kind of wrap around. 00:09:47:20 - 00:10:11:10 Speaker 2 Well in terms of experience, I’d say experience, the term experience is from the people's point of view, right, so the people experience. We cannot, I don't think I can force you to study experience. So as a designer, what we can provide is we designed a service, we designed a process and then let people come in and experience our service 00:10:11:12 - 00:10:29:08 Speaker 2 in the process. If they experience what we expect them to experience, then I consider that as a successful design. If they experience something different from what I expected, that's a bad design. There's no bad human, there's no bad people, there's always a bad design. So I think that you don't have to keep in mind that we design something. 00:10:29:08 - 00:10:51:00 Speaker 2 People didn't get it. They go, “Shit they didn't understand what we tried to say.” No, I say, it’s your fault. Your design is wrong because you didn't design the system that can successfully convey what they're trying to convey. So when you design experience, especially customer experience, I think we have to really dissect every single anchor point to design the entire process. 00:10:51:00 - 00:11:15:12 Speaker 2 We cannot design this experience bubble. Then people don't even know where to start. So that's where expertise kicks in. So we should be able to dissect the design, like every single anchor point. So I consider three very important notions of experience that need to be considered. Number one, a pure design experience. So this is my term. 00:11:15:16 - 00:11:37:16 Speaker 2 I call it PX, pure experience. This is like a pure design experience. If you design a chair, it should be comfortable. You know, full stop. If a chair itself is not comfortable, we cannot do anything around it, right? If it's a restaurant experience, food should be good. And if it’s a book design, the right grid system should be there, the right typeface, the right typography, you know. 00:11:37:19 - 00:12:00:18 Speaker 2 So that's basic, basic stuff. If it’s UX, like, the whole entire UX experience should be flawless, and if it is a platform, the content should be good. So the whole content platform doesn't mean anything, right? So that is a pure experience. I think that's completely, the designer should be in charge. And the next is a brand experience. 00:12:00:18 - 00:12:24:11 Speaker 2 Well, so let's go back to pure expensive a little bit. That's what basically what I practiced in my previous life as a graphic designer. So in this case, a good notion about essential design is very important. It's good. The design something doesn't disrupt people's life. So that's the best design because it's something turned into the standard of life. 00:12:24:13 - 00:12:44:00 Speaker 2 Like there's a concept called like a Norman Door by Don Norman. There is a door, people use a door without realizing there was a door. That's the best design. It was a chair without realizing they are sitting on a chair and it's like... 00:12:44:03 - 00:12:45:22 Speaker 1 It's invisible at some point. 00:12:45:22 - 00:13:01:20 Speaker 2 Yeah, it is ubiquitous and there is this, it’s beautiful but when you say something with Helvetica, it’s said what is said, right? When I say, Henry Kim in Helvetica, it says Henry Kim. It doesn’t say Helvetica. And that's a function of Helvetica. So there is a beauty about sense, you know, essential. 00:13:01:24 - 00:13:28:09 Speaker 2 Some people consider essential design kind of similar with simplicity, but is completely different. The word essence in Latin, it means being and existence. So that means it's a to focus on the reason of being. So why does this phone exist? We focus on that, that's essential design. So that's, this is what designers always like to talk about. Whenever you go to design conferences. 00:13:28:09 - 00:14:03:07 Speaker 2 We talk this kind of stuff and yes design, but from a company’s point of view, the brand experience is very important. So you’ve got pure experience and brand experience. From a brand experience point of view, it’s for creating like authentic and distinct emotive experience, both esthetically and technologically and experientially, it’s very crucial. Otherwise, it will all be the same thing, you know, like you could go to one restaurant and it’s got the best burger and then you go to the next restaurant 00:14:03:09 - 00:14:26:20 Speaker 2 and that burger is good too. So which restaurant you want to go to? It doesn't really matter because what a good burger. That's not good branding. So the restaurant should be able to provide something very disruptive, distinguished, which is authentic, which is very different from Helvetica concept, right. So Helvetica, yes, everybody knows that I'm like a stupid Helvetica fanatic. 00:14:26:24 - 00:14:48:14 Speaker 2 But like the thing is, when I work with a company, I cannot make a company as a Helvetica. So that's not good. So because of this, people should remember this company, this brand, as a very unique experience. So this is two concepts of a pure experience and brand experience. It sounds like an oxymoron, but to me that oxymoron is the beauty of design dialectics, you know? 00:14:48:16 - 00:15:08:02 Speaker 2 So we have this sort of pure the essential experience at same time, how can we add the personality, the emotive experience on the top of it? So that is the good customer experience. It’s a pure experience, a best experience ever. At the same time, people will never forget it, so they have to come back to the experience. 00:15:08:06 - 00:15:10:14 Speaker 2 To me that's the best customer experience. 00:15:10:16 - 00:15:35:11 Speaker 1 So that's a pretty amazing definition, Henry, I have to say. And as a brand person, I love adding the emotive piece on. Where, especially in the world that we live in, where experience is becoming more and more digital, right? And technology, I mean, you're in a tech company now. One could argue that Coca-Cola is not a tech company, but of course everything is kind of technological. 00:15:35:16 - 00:15:44:19 Speaker 1 What is that intersection of technology and innovation in CX design today and how is it evolving for the future, do you think? 00:15:44:21 - 00:16:09:04 Speaker 2 You know, we are living in the age of exponential growth, so especially in tech. So tech is inevitably a strange part of our lives now, you know. Does a user centric experience around tech is getting more and more important. So the connecting point between technology and experience is where the potential improvement of human life truly resides. 00:16:09:06 - 00:16:33:08 Speaker 2 So that's where the first step of a new product design in our industry and tech industry should begin. So technological innovation without considering people's experiences is just a gimmick. So there are technologies and then why do I need a technology? It sounds cool, but it never helped me to have a better life. So disruption for the sake of disruption only creates unnecessary visual experience of pollution. 00:16:33:08 - 00:17:03:08 Speaker 2 So I call that a visual rubbish. There's so many rubbishes out there already, so I have no interest in adding another piece of shit into people's life. I think a truly successful customer experience, experience in tech industry is the company or the brand or designer can really identify how that piece of technology can improve human life. 00:17:03:10 - 00:17:27:02 Speaker 2 Then add that experience on the top. It will be revolutionary. Otherwise we just keep adding more and more technology. So I really appreciate that kind of innovation. For example, like, you know, GPS you know now, generative AI is becoming one, Apple, or ride share. You know, who could have thought that kind of service could be possible. 00:17:27:07 - 00:17:44:04 Speaker 2 So now everybody take that as almost for granted, right? It's a good G.P.S. It's everywhere. But I just cannot imagine life before even MapQuest or I had like this book of the maps, you know, you're going to figure out how to. 00:17:44:07 - 00:17:45:09 Speaker 1 Thomas Guide. 00:17:45:11 - 00:18:12:19 Speaker 2 I know. Exactly. So now everybody don't even consider that as a part of their life, because now we GPS. Yeah yeah so to me that so that's why I think actual like the judgment or evaluation of a good CX or good design will be determined by time. So it will take time and that people take it as essential part of our life. 00:18:12:22 - 00:18:36:11 Speaker 2 Then, then I can say, I designed that like ten years ago. I was part of that, you know, initiative. That will make me very proud. So I think that's the beauty of technology. We don't know whether this technology will really make it true or not, but we just make a prediction and then we make a full effort on it to make it as the essential and standard of life. 00:18:36:13 - 00:18:55:24 Speaker 2 So we are we are not interested in me, when I say we it’s me as a designer and my company, we don’t it for the sake of the gimmick or the sake of innovation. We just give it a shot and then we'll see. So we did that like our entire effort to identify what is the next step, what will be the next technology. 00:18:56:03 - 00:19:20:03 Speaker 1 And is the question, you talked about it a little bit before, Henry. I mean, the goal, of course, is, as you said, to have an impact and a benefit, right. How does, does a brand have any like specific levers it can pull besides giving it a shot and thinking thoroughly about kind of these aspects, like to ensure a positive customer experience? 00:19:20:03 - 00:19:30:20 Speaker 1 Like is there one thing or two things as you think about your role that like you're like, if we don't do this, then it's a failure or something like it? 00:19:30:22 - 00:19:57:04 Speaker 2 Well, that's why I think the working word, the multiple, like a counterpart, that's very important because everybody is expert in their own section. So R&D, you know they’re vocal from their point of view and the design team go question. You know that's a great technology but it wouldn't make a good esthetic, for example. And then marketing makes their own point. 00:19:57:04 - 00:20:19:03 Speaker 2 So we always debate, we always question each other. We always go through this irrational problem solving process. So we are not trying to make a product to only sell to help us to have a better like bottom line that is very important to us. But at the same time, that bottom line should mean something and then you help us to be able to move on to the next step. 00:20:19:05 - 00:20:43:18 Speaker 2 So instead of having one single like the goal or the process of your strategy, we always are trying to collaborate with other team and try to be open minded, try to understand like a sociocultural movement and technological movement. So I'm design geek, I'm tacky, I'm cultural geek, so I try to read everything, try to watch everything, try to talk to everybody. 00:20:43:20 - 00:21:01:24 Speaker 2 So try to read everything. So for me, if the one day, if I feel like I'm kind of tired of learning this, everything, I think there's that moment I have to retire because it means I start to lose my general interest in human life, right? So yeah. 00:21:02:01 - 00:21:37:07 Speaker 1 It's so it's so interesting, Henry, because I mean, I feel like, CX, I wrote a white paper about CX back during the beginning of the pandemic, and it was about systems integration with all of the different touch points, right. And at a time when everything was broken or breaking, right. And and I feel like CX, I mean obviously, as you mentioned before, UX UI these are now like terms and acronyms that are in the maybe not in the general population’s, you know, vocabulary, but certainly in the design world is very, very understood. 00:21:37:09 - 00:21:53:09 Speaker 1 CX is still kind of out there a little bit. It's becoming more popular, it's evolving. But are we teaching CX in school? Like is CX something you get to study? And if so, like, what does it mean? And if not, why? 00:21:53:11 - 00:22:22:11 Speaker 2 You know, good design evolve into like good action design, good action design you get UX and UI and now there are schools that provide a degree in UX and then there's HCI human computer interaction and human factor. It evolved. Now if you look at the student demographic of human factor, HCI like only less than half of them are actually design background, like they're the psychology, the psychology background work, software engineering background. 00:22:22:11 - 00:22:47:15 Speaker 2 They all jump in to this the UX and UI. I think CX is kind of similar. I was in academia for many years, as you introduced me, and I believe the value and responsibility of a higher education is not just touching the surface of a trend that is fleeting, but helping students to build a fundamental, strong structural foundation of their preference in a career. 00:22:47:17 - 00:23:18:19 Speaker 2 So the flip side is a curriculum shouldn't be dated either. So sometimes I feel like some academia or the professors leave or they build this bubble of a design utopia that you know, the term utopia, actually it literally means that the line you cannot reach. But teaching students that is like giving them a false hope by teaching them you can do this but when they go out they go, no this is not what I was taught. 00:23:18:22 - 00:23:47:15 Speaker 2 So I don't want that to happen. But again, like I said before, they're creating this fundamental structure, a foundation is the root of the curriculum. That's why we take a process as a role is more important than ever nowadays, especially in the design and customer experience education. So they should have the keen insight on industry moves and cultural moves and adopt them 00:23:47:19 - 00:24:06:04 Speaker 2 as swift as possible. I'm not in academia anymore. That's one of the maybe reasons I felt like I needed to go out and then getting more experience, a professional experience. I had a profession. I have both experience, but I felt like I need to focus more on the professional side because I felt like that I'm not like adopting this whole thing. 00:24:06:10 - 00:24:43:02 Speaker 2 So I needed to. So now I am doing this so, you know, and suddenly I'm ready to go back to academia because I feel like I'm fully charged and then I really want to do, you know, inspire the students with this information and experience. I try to wait for the experience. So I think the professors need to be more diligent to getting this opportunity, put themselves into this fast flow of a movement in society, in culture, and also technology and industry and design. 00:24:43:04 - 00:24:58:18 Speaker 2 So yeah, I think the education system and I'm sorry, and professors need to be more flexible, adaptable, yet fundamental, not trendy. So that is the very important aspect of the new curriculum. 00:24:58:20 - 00:25:24:15 Speaker 1 I love that. Not trendy, I think and I also think that having practical experience in the professional world is helpful for teaching then what is not trendy and what is necessary is foundation. I mean, just coming to our end here, I like to ask, it's a new thing. I started in the middle of season six, which is, you know, and as a former academic and as a lifelong, I think educator, 00:25:24:17 - 00:25:42:23 Speaker 1 Henry, and someone, if you were to be able to recommend one or two resources to our listeners today that they should look at or dive into to learn more about CX or see a great example, where would you send them? What would you tell them to do? 00:25:43:00 - 00:26:07:06 Speaker 2 For me, it's a hard because I feel like a designer, especially an experience designer, should have a very keen awareness of what's going on right now. So I always watch CNN at the same time Fox, you know, simultaneously because I hate like get this system of algorithm because they keep feeding me what I like. So that's why I try to watch something different, to help me to understand that what's going on on the other side too. 00:26:07:09 - 00:26:24:24 Speaker 2 So I'm a human being. I cannot be on both sides. I have my own preference too, but at the same time I have to understand our target audience or our enemy or whoever, whatever. I don't know, our competitors. So pretty much experience everything and try to watch everything and try to listen everything. I just said that that is very important. 00:26:25:01 - 00:26:46:18 Speaker 2 In my book, Graphic Design Discourse, I'm not trying to sell my book, I just use this as a reference. Second to last chapter of my book is a strategy of design, and the last chapter is on process design. So essentially design is what I said at the pure design experience. That's where my heart belongs to. So I'm, I'm to the core 00:26:46:18 - 00:27:07:12 Speaker 2 I'm a designer. So I love the title even when as a professor, I always put my occupation as a designer. For now, I never put like a VP of design, whatever is in my job. I'm a designer so that's my job, that's my calling. So that's essential design as I said and that is good, but that can’t solve everything. 00:27:07:18 - 00:27:29:16 Speaker 2 You know, design cannot solve like problem of sustainability. We try our best, but we cannot be the only resource to solve every problem. So we have to work with everybody. That's why as a designer, we have to understand the beauty of system, beauty of the process. We need to be more open minded, we need to be more structured. 00:27:29:22 - 00:28:05:06 Speaker 2 So that is that what I call process design. So, we designers shouldn’t focus on only the final outcome, which is important, but the better entire the design process and experience of process service system. So then that we can really create all this, this system that our technical skills that can be valued at the same time everybody else's skills that can be valued and they create this the, the, the synthesis. 00:28:05:06 - 00:28:28:21 Speaker 2 And what is that the white hat call superset? Is it the philosophical term? Super subject, that combination of everything that truly can solve a lot of problems. So I believe designers can contribute really, really critical part of creating that entire process. 00:28:28:23 - 00:28:56:13 Speaker 1 Henry, as a last question, I know I know that you consider yourself a digital optimist. I'll put it in air quotes for the sake of this conversation. I mean, as we think about, I always ask my guests, like as you look 25 years out to say 2050, you know, what are you most excited about? What's your hope for the field of CX? 00:28:56:15 - 00:29:17:04 Speaker 2 Well, I think that design is a process. If you agree that design is a process of problem solving, you know, CX is all about problem solving too. So I have a list of problems I like to solve right. So with the Samsung can solve like a so many different kind of problem. At the same time there are other companies and other technology can solve different kind of problem too. 00:29:17:08 - 00:29:39:00 Speaker 2 So we have a crisis of health care system and the public transportation system, you know, the sustainability and everything. So I really hope that technology we are developing and the end of in our future, a lot of this, the problem will not be a problem anymore. And then of course, there will be another different type of problem, which is okay. 00:29:39:05 - 00:29:58:16 Speaker 2 But as long as the problem we have will be solved, that's my hope. That's what I really hope what I'm doing will contribute to the problem solving of those problems. So after 10 or 20 years to when my kid or my grandkids ask me, Hey, we don't have that problem anymore. Yeah, you know, I worked on that project ten, 20 years ago. 00:29:58:18 - 00:30:27:13 Speaker 2 That's what I really envision. My success can be measured, not right now, you know. So that's my hope. So I'm surrounded by, including you, me and you know, organizations like iF and Samsung we all try to make a design as essential, the essential like the function of this you know the movement to the journey to the better future. 00:30:27:13 - 00:30:49:06 Speaker 2 Right. So I really try to be hopeful and optimistic about our future. And because that future will be the future my son and my grandson, my great grandson will live. So I don't want to be dystopian. So even though I can assume why people have a dystopian view on the future, but what's the point of having a dystopian future? 00:30:49:07 - 00:30:58:10 Speaker 2 Then what’s the point of working for a tech company if we don't believe in the future. So I believe our future would be definitely better than our present. 00:30:58:12 - 00:31:21:16 Speaker 1 I mean that's what we all, as you said, all of our organizations, all of designers, that's what we all aim and strive for. And as you said earlier, Henry, you know, it's like good CX will only, you know, be able to be determined and judged, you know, in time. And so hopefully, hopefully your hope and the future that we're creating coincide well and nicely. 00:31:21:16 - 00:31:24:11 Speaker 1 And we can look back and say that that was great. 00:31:24:13 - 00:31:39:01 Speaker 2 Of course, even the name of your podcast said it, it’s the future of X, Y, Z, right? So future, talk about future, we have to have a great book on the future. So I think there's a way we can strive to have a better future. 00:31:39:03 - 00:31:56:17 Speaker 1 Well, Henry Kim, global head of design strategy for Samsung based in Seoul, South Korea, first episode season seven, 2025. It's going to be a good start to the future, I hope. Thank you for joining us on Future of XYZ. 00:31:56:19 - 00:32:00:16 Speaker 2 It's been an honor and a pleasure. Happy New Year, everybody. 00:32:00:18 - 00:32:18:19 Speaker 1 Happy New Year, Henry. And for everyone watching and listening, we are starting the new season presented by iF Design, part of Surround podcast network. Please make sure you leave us a five star review. It's how other people find us and we look forward to seeing you again in two weeks. Thanks again, Henry. 00:32:18:21 - 00:32:24:22 Speaker 2 Thanks for the opportunity again, Lisa and iF Design.