Latest / The Photography & Video Show Podcast / 16: Healing through photography with Kim Grant, best smartphone cameras you’ve never heard of with Basil Kronfli

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16: Healing through photography with Kim Grant, best smartphone cameras you’ve never heard of with Basil Kronfli · The Photography & Video Show Podcast

• 0:10
  David McClelland: Hello and welcome to the Photography and Video Show podcast for September 2024.
• 0:20
  David McClelland: I'm David, and coming up this month, we join Kim Grant on a journey of mindful photography and learn how the language we use when taking a shot might subtly influence the images we make.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: I began to stop using the word shoot, capture, take, and snap.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: At least when I remembered anyway, I do find that take still regularly comes in, which is completely fine.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: But what I realized is that when I started saying make and especially create more, that my images began to say something else.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: It was almost like I became really fully embodied the creator of my images.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: And this more softer, mindful approach really coincided with me beginning to change my language.
• 1:07
  David McClelland: But first, joining us in the journalist jumpsy this month is content creator and Digital Camera World's unofficial smartphone correspondent, Basil Crumpley.
• 1:16
  David McClelland: Basil, good to have you on the show.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's a pleasure.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: Great to be here, David.
• 1:20
  David McClelland: Basil, we've rubbed shoulders many times over the years, covering the same sort of stories, being at the same events, writing for the same, well, newspapers literally on the same page.
• 1:30
  David McClelland: Our mugs have uh have been there.
• 1:32
  David McClelland: But we've never properly really met until now through the magic of podcasts and virtual platforms and all of that.
• 1:39
  David McClelland: So I'm thrilled that we actually get a chance to chat.
• 1:42
  David McClelland: And well, with your work, you get around even more than I do.
• 1:46
  David McClelland: You're an incredibly busy man at the moment.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, I mean, it used to be the case that there were quiet seasons in tech, but I think those days are long gone.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, so it's a constant stream of launches, uh, especially at the moment uh with Ether in Berlin coming up.
• 2:03
  David McClelland: Indeed, yes.
• 2:04
  David McClelland: And like you say, not the only launch coming up over the next uh week, 10 days or so.
• 2:09
  David McClelland: We're very, very much into that season.
• 2:11
  David McClelland: Speaking of which, in our news section this month, we are focusing on smartphones.
• 2:17
  David McClelland: After all, they are the cameras that most of us have in our pockets wherever we go.
• 2:21
  David McClelland: And I think it's fair to say that cameras are still one of the main features that smartphone manufacturers have been using to differentiate between their devices.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: I I think there's most room for creating a compelling story for a smartphone through the camera capabilities, while Google's doing it with AI and is going very heavy with all the post-processing editing features AI can do.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: Other manufacturers uh doing it with Zoom capabilities, etc.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, other aspects of phones are a little bit drier, they're a little bit harder to inject personality into.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and also there are so many computational photography advancements making cameras on phones even better.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of really geeky but actually useful stuff there.
• 3:09
  David McClelland: Yeah, I think if there is one area outside the cameras that a lot of consumers are interested in, but it seems to be fairly niche, fair, fair, fairly top of the market still.
• 3:18
  David McClelland: And that's the foldable form factors.
• 3:20
  David McClelland: And I want to come on to maybe one or two of those later on.
• 3:24
  David McClelland: But that that's a very tangible benefit, but it's very tangible in the wallet as well.
• 3:29
  David McClelland: How long do you think it'll be before we start to see some of these foldable formats come much more down to the mid-range and the affordable side?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's actually happening already with flip phones.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, there's a phone called Anubia Flip 5G, and that costs 400, 500 pounds.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so whereas larger form factor foldables they are more expensive, they have bigger screens.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: And typically, because they're already priced high, uh, manufacturers want to cram in the best specs, and that's going to increase the price even more.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so they're the ones that are always going to be, or at least at the moment and for the foreseeable future, a thousand pounds or more.
• 4:09
  David McClelland: So, why don't we take a look first at what the smartphones that many people will be aware of, what they're offering at the moment, and in particular, not just the megapixel count, the lenses, but also what the look and the feel is, and which manufacturer, which camera might be the right fit for a different type of photographer.
• 4:28
  David McClelland: Let's do that as a kind of part one, if you like.
• 4:30
  David McClelland: And then after the feature interview, how about we go a bit deeper into where some of the most exciting areas of innovation and interest are coming from in the smartphone market?
• 4:40
  David McClelland: Sounds like a plan?
• 4:41
  David McClelland: Sounds great to me.
• 4:43
  David McClelland: First up, then let's sidle up with the mainstream.
• 4:45
  David McClelland: Uh, spoiler alert, I am an iPhone user, an owner.
• 4:50
  David McClelland: I have been for a very, very long time.
• 4:53
  David McClelland: And back in the day, I think there was a good reason for that, as far as for from a photography and from a videography and a kind of content catch on content creation point of view, the accessories and the apps, because of the vertical integration that Apple has, because of the standardization.
• 5:09
  David McClelland: It really was the platform to look at.
• 5:12
  David McClelland: I think we're going to bust that myth later on.
• 5:14
  David McClelland: But first of all, let's take a look at where we are with regards to the iPhone 15.
• 5:20
  David McClelland: And inconveniently for us, we're recording mere days, a week before the next iPhone is due to be launched.
• 5:28
  David McClelland: But let's take a look at where Apple is right now with its mainstream smartphone offerings.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: Spot on, David, when it comes to that integration, there's a reason that I have about 50 phones on my desk.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that is no exaggeration, but I'm recording this on an iPhone because it's what speaks with my Mac.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm using it as a webcam and it integrates directly with Apple's center stage, Stage Manager.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: All of the stuff that Apple does talks to the iPhone.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: And also when it comes to video, iPhones are the only uh phones that can record Pro Res onto an external hard drive.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: So there are many reasons to choose an iPhone.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: But where I'd say Apple is falling a little bit behind is when it comes to photography compared to some of the um more aggressive smartphones coming out of China predominantly at the moment.
• 6:21
  David McClelland: Define define aggressive because is it a case that Apple has not always been first to market with features across its product lines?
• 6:32
  David McClelland: When it does, it tends to execute them very well.
• 6:34
  David McClelland: But it often leaves that bleeding edge to some of the other brands to feel the pain from.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: Even more than that, while in the past Apple's integrated existing hardware and done so in a relatively class-leading way at times, portrait mode, for example, when it comes to what it was introduced on the iPhone 15 Pro Max, the TetraPrism Periscope Zoom, that Apple said was the best zoom module on a camera.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's categorically one of the least flexible zooms.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, while Zoom cameras coming out of Vivo and Xiaomi and Oppo, three Chinese brands.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: And by aggressive, I mean they're more aggressive when it comes to uh pushing the technology as far as it can go, and also taking the fight to more established brands.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: Apple's zoom camera, for example, can't focus close.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: So you don't get those really beautiful benefits of a near-up telephoto macro type shot.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so it's quite restrictive in how you use it.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then once you do zoom far away, its detail doesn't hold up.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: Apple uses a very small sensor compared to some of the competition.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: So now Apple may not see these players as competition, but for me, someone who is a real photography geek, um, I love seeing the hottest stuff coming out of China because it's kind of a crystal ball as to what Apple may be doing in the next three or four years.
• 8:02
  David McClelland: All right.
• 8:02
  David McClelland: So Apple with the Pro Max, that's the real flagship phone there.
• 8:07
  David McClelland: That's got the five times Tetraprism uh Periscope lens, whatever you would have it.
• 8:13
  David McClelland: You've got to be at that peak price point in order to benefit from that.
• 8:18
  David McClelland: But as you start to go lower down to the range to the non-pro phones, they are they're still very good.
• 8:25
  David McClelland: And I I guess the point from Apple is that it is a mass market product.
• 8:29
  David McClelland: They have four different phones, five maybe, including the SE, whenever that gets updated.
• 8:35
  David McClelland: So they are all pretty close, and they are in general more than good enough for many of the people who will be buying an iPhone every year or every two years.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: But I think you have to define what good enough is for you.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and for example, pro photography.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you're listening to this podcast, there's a very good chance that you enjoy shooting in uh manual mode, manual photography.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, whereas uh, for example, Xiaomi, a Chinese brand that's partnered with Leica, has some really exciting prograde control over your photography, um, Oppo with Hasselblad.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh you don't get that level of control over your photos out of the box, or you haven't in the past on an iPhone.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: This is being introduced now, but this is also being introduced about seven, eight years later than more much of the composition, actually, even more.
• 9:31
  David McClelland: Let's move on to the other brand, really, that is kind of at the top of its half of the sales on the Android side, and this is Samsung.
• 9:39
  David McClelland: Now, Samsung's got a whole bevy of devices in its gadget bag, but it's the Galaxy S2024, which is where we're at right now.
• 9:48
  David McClelland: So, so what are we looking at as the key differentiators when it comes to the Samsung device versus, well, Apple, for example, given that's what we've just been talking about?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Samsung gives you more flexibility out of the box.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, now, those two categories of Samsung phones you're talking about, the Note series used to launch around this time of the year, whereas the S series, which so the Note was always a bigger phone, the S was always a more mainstream phone launched at the beginning of the year around Mobile World Congress, which is a tech event in Barcelona.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: Now, with the Note series and S series being consolidated, you have just the S24 Ultra, which is a super powered phone, and because it's the most souped up camera.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: It has that Periscope zoom, which means a Periscope structure in a lens to give you further reach with higher quality.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: And it has three other cameras: a primary, an ultra-wide, and a zoom camera.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: So with two zoom cameras, two different focal lengths, it's able to give you more flexibility and feel more like a camera kit than an iPhone.
• 10:54
  David McClelland: Google never used to be a big player, or maybe that's a little bit of an old thought on my side, but with the Google Pixel devices now, we've reached the Pixel 9.
• 11:03
  David McClelland: I've actually got a Pixel 3 XL in front of me right now, which is still a very good smartphone, albeit about five or six years old.
• 11:10
  David McClelland: The Pixel 9, that lineup launched in August.
• 11:14
  David McClelland: You were very much across that, Basil.
• 11:16
  David McClelland: What has Google brought to the smartphone photography world that might be in addition to the other smartphone manufacturers?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: This is where the post-processing and the AI-driven post-processing comes in.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, it's the image editing with object removal, uh, with, for example, a new feature called Adme that Google's introduced, uh, in which you're able to take a photo using the primary camera of yourself and another person, even if there's no one else there, because you'll be able to switch out positions and then it will composite the photo, the two people present, take of a space with on-screen guidelines to prompt you to position everything just right.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: So Google is very much leaning heavily into AI.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: Unsurprisingly, given Google's also got an AI assistant, Gemini, Google on the phones have something called Pixel Studio, which is an AI image generation feature.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: This I find I think is going to be very contentious the more people that use it, because while Samsung, all of the AI edited features within Samsung phones, you have a watermark in the on the picture that's generated that says um AI has contributed to this.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: Google actually doesn't do this.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: And more to the point, on the new Pixel 9 series Pixel Studio, you can uh ask the Pixel to generate an image, and it will either look like a beautiful anime drawing or a sketch, or and and it works uh alarmingly well.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: Looks like a hand-drawn sketch, and um it isn't watermarked in any way.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: And this extends to photography as well.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: You can tap a sky and say make it pink, and it will do all that without any watermarks.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: So the features are amazing and it's incredible to use it's all like mind-blowing that it's gone so far in terms of it's so usable.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: Text to image is very intuitive, but uh the philosophical debate definitely is there, especially with Google.
• 13:21
  David McClelland: Just because we can, does it mean that we should?
• 13:24
  David McClelland: Yes.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 13:26
  David McClelland: And in terms of the specific devices, Google, Pixel, that there's a few different devices there.
• 13:31
  David McClelland: Maybe we can just name check uh what they what they look like and who they're for.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: This is where I'm actually more excited in terms of what it means for users who just want a great smartphone.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: There's a Pixel 9, Pixel 9 Pro, and Pixel 9 Pro Excel.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: There's also the Pixel Fold, which has paired back camera hardware as most foldables do, but still integrates all of that Google processing and AI.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: Now, what's exciting for me is a Pixel 9 Pro.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: Whether it's Samsung, whether it's Apple, whether it's another phone maker like Xiaomi or Oppo that I previously mentioned, in order to get the very best camera hardware, you have to buy a bigger phone.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: The reason is bigger, better camera hardware requires more depth.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: And Apple puts a TetraPrism Periscope on its 15 Pro Max.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: Samsung puts its Periscope camera and 200 megapixel primary camera on its S24 Ultra.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: With the Pixel 9 Pro, it's a smaller phone that has a completely compromise-free set of cameras.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: So you get that five times Periscope zoom.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: You get the same large primary sensor, and you also get an ultra-wide complete with autofocus, um, all of the cameras able to record 4K and actually video boost, which is a new feature that uploads your video file to the cloud, and that's where it upscales everything to 8K while simultaneously sharpening and steadying and doing everything.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you can do that across the primary and telephoto cameras.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I find the Pixel 9 Pro to be the most exciting of the three that have just launched.
• 15:07
  David McClelland: Let's move on to another name that um many people, many photographers in particular, will be familiar with, and that is Sony, of course.
• 15:15
  David McClelland: Now, Sony makes a lot of the cross-pollination in technology between its different lines, and the Sony Xperia smartphone line certainly does that.
• 15:25
  David McClelland: It talks about a pro-level camera, it talks about its X-More T sensor and uh a lot of the um AI or at least human pose estimation technology that's present in the alpha cameras.
• 15:39
  David McClelland: And of course, it's got Zeiss, well, Zeiss lenses or Zeiss something.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a T-star coating on the lens.
• 15:48
  David McClelland: Right.
• 15:48
  David McClelland: Certainly on paper, Sony presents a good game there.
• 15:52
  David McClelland: And we've seen a lot of manufacturers drop out of the smartphone market uh in recent years.
• 15:57
  David McClelland: I'm thinking of the likes of LG, for example.
• 15:59
  David McClelland: I used to do some really exciting phones, but it's a very, very competitive market.
• 16:03
  David McClelland: So Sony is still in there.
• 16:06
  David McClelland: Uh, is it is it taking the fight to the likes of Apple and to the likes of Samsung, or maybe Google now, with regards to how well its cameras, uh its phones and its cameras perform, do you think?
• 16:18
  David McClelland: I would say it is and it isn't.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: On a purely technical level, uh Sony is innovating quite incredibly.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: Sony's the only manufacturer to feature a continuous Zoom, an actual moving part Zoom within its uh new Experia phones in the flagship specifically.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: Now, Sony's very, very bound by its design ethos.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: And as a result, it's very reticent to increase the size of its camera modules.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: And as a result of that, it's sticking to low or low resolution cameras and smaller sensors than a lot of the flagship competition.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: And that naturally results in more hampered uh light capturing capabilities and in turn worse low light performance typically than a lot of other smartphone makers, especially with that ultra-wide and with the zoom cameras.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, simultaneously, to compound this, Sony has a very traditional position on AI processing.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so it doesn't tidy things up too much.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: Its photos look very traditional.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: Now, a certain type of photographer will absolutely love and respect this traditionalism.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: However, when you do compare high dynamic range uh shadow detail and detail in highlights, you're going to definitely see that Sony phones are falling behind the competition in a lot of those specific areas, especially when looking at phones like the Google Pixel.
• 17:56
  David McClelland: Interesting what you say about the look there that one would get from a Sony smartphone.
• 18:02
  David McClelland: If we were to summarize, if possible, the the smartphones and the cameras that we've spoken about so far, the Apple and the Samsung and the Google, and I guess the Sony as well.
• 18:14
  David McClelland: Are there any types of photographers that you think would be more suited towards the Samsung look or the Apple look?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: I think the Google Pixel has the most easy to use, point and shoot, reliable photography experience.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: When it comes to video, iPhone is, I think most tech reviewers, if not all, will agree, iPhone is the champion of both prograde video, but simultaneously point and shoot video.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: Samsung is a very, very zingy, social media ready, vibrant, but also sharpened image that someone who just wants to grab a picture and chuck it on Instagram, share it on WhatsApp, post it across socials will be fine with.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: Also, Samsung and Google both lean into AI more aggressively or more heavily, sorry, than Apple does.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: And that actually helps you with better Zoom performance.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: So anyone who likes zooming, who isn't a gig, will prefer Google and Samsung's tape than uh iPhone, for example.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and Sony really is about a traditionalist.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: Although Sony does have one really awesome feature on the One Mark VI, and that's the fact its telephoto camera can capture very close-up macro shots across photos and videos.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: And in the right hands, the hands of a macro photographer, it the results are stunning.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: You can see some on Sony's socials.
• 19:43
  David McClelland: Thank you so much for that roundup.
• 19:46
  David McClelland: We are going to come back after the feature interview today and uh cover some of the smartphone manufacturers that might not be household names, but nevertheless are doing some really interesting stuff in the photography space.
• 19:58
  David McClelland: Don't go anywhere, Basil.
• 19:59
  David McClelland: We'll be back in a moment.
• 20:05
  David McClelland: Therapeutic nature photographer and wellness coach Kim Grant's work encourages people to slow down and use their senses to connect more deeply with the world around them.
• 20:18
  David McClelland: Having found photography during a difficult period in her own life, qualified nurse Kim now helps others on their healing journeys through the practice of mindful photography.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: I really like to slow down when I go out with my camera.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, I see a lot of like the human condition and emotions reflected back to me in my images.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Reflective, emotive, and mindful.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's probably how I would describe my work.
• 20:45
  David McClelland: And the context in which you are um making your pictures, creating your art is very much Scotland.
• 20:53
  David McClelland: It's very much that connection with nature.
• 20:55
  David McClelland: Tell me a bit more about why that is so important to you.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, I'm based in Scotland, of course.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very, very beautiful country.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um I tend to go more to the less well-known places, and I mostly photograph in my local area, but all of my photography is based outdoors in nature.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I began my journey as a landscape photographer over 15 years ago now.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: But in recent years, I've more gone into the macro and the sort of close-up and intimate style photography.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I tend to go around my local area and very mindfully connect with everything that I'm seeing around me, from the trees to the bugs and the flowers, and also to go to the seaside and do a lot of intentional camera movement and stuff as well.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: So to really bring that motion and emotion into the images too.
• 21:41
  David McClelland: You began your well, I I say began your career.
• 21:44
  David McClelland: You were a nurse for a few years going way, way, way back.
• 21:49
  David McClelland: I'm always fascinated, and we have this conversation quite a lot on the show about people who've moved from one career journey, one career path to another.
• 22:00
  David McClelland: And very often it's not so much about a shift, it's about a compounding, it's about two different elements or more different elements of a person's journey coming together to create a new direction.
• 22:14
  David McClelland: So, what line do you draw from your nursing journey to the journey that you're on right now?
• 22:21
  David McClelland: Was there another part that added together with the nursing to create the Kim that is the creative that you are today?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I mean, I actually began my photography journey when I was in the midst of quite severe anxiety and depression episodes.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: So photography was something that gave me a tool to connect with something outside of myself, and it just happened to be nature and watching the sunset.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, photography has always had this undertone of health and wellness because, of course, it helped me on my health and wellness journey, although I hadn't pieced this together until many years later.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, I just always wanted to help people, and that's why I went to become a nurse.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, it was more around the emotional element, but it seemed like going and doing your kind of practical nursing job would be a great way to give something back to people and to help people in a more traditional manner.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um but as I began to realise how much photography had helped me in my health and wellness and how much nature and I feel natural ways of healing combined with creativity had played such a big role in my part that I sort of brought my nursing background and the knowledge that I'd gained through those six years that I was working in the health sector together with my creativity and my own experience.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: It kind of enabled me to bring them both together.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess that's why my work is also quite mindful and emotive, because I use it to channel my emotions and to slow down and be in the present moment, which to this day still helps me to stay balanced, especially with um mental and emotional health.
• 23:53
  David McClelland: So you have a podcast, Photographic Connections, and I went back into the mists of time probably about 18 or so months ago, uh, as we're recording today, not long after we began the photography and video show podcast.
• 24:06
  David McClelland: And I I listened to the first episode of the of that podcast where you shared parts of your own story and it's I found it very moving.
• 24:18
  David McClelland: Uh and talking about some of the the darker times, and you alluded to them there in terms of the anxiety and I don't know whether this was one of your words, but it's certainly what I took away from it that connection or disconnection, disconnection from the world around you, disconnection from yourself to a certain extent as well.
• 24:42
  David McClelland: And the role that photography played, image making played in those early days from the first point and shoot.
• 24:50
  David McClelland: I I don't want to take people back to darker times in their lives, you know, that that that that's not something that we want to do necessarily, but what role do you think how how did those images make you feel at the time?
• 25:04
  David McClelland: Did it feel as though it was that connection?
• 25:07
  David McClelland: Did it feel as though it was the beginning of a of a healing path?
• 25:11
  David McClelland: Or was it something that actually wasn't completely clear to you at the time?
• 25:15
  David McClelland: You just knew that it felt it felt good, it felt right, it felt that you were being connected to something in a way that you hadn't been connected before, perhaps.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting you mentioned there this disconnection because until beginning photography, I was incredibly disconnected.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was very lonely, so I was disconnected from others.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't understand who I was.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was incredibly disconnected with myself and my body and how I was feeling.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I went through a period of being very numb.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was also very disconnected to the world around me.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think I dissociated a lot when I was younger.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: And what I realized was going down to the coast and watching the sunset, it was one of the only times that I ever felt anything and anything remotely positive.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I'd be sitting there and I'd feel the sea air and the breeze and smell the sea and everything around me, and then watching these gorgeous sunsets, there was just something in it that that really um it, you know, I felt something really deeply within me that nothing else was bringing me.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then I thought I'd like to connect with this more deeply.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I ended up getting my first camera and began to photograph it, because I think when you find something that makes you feel something, especially a spark of sort of happier or more joyful feelings, especially when you're really struggling mentally, you want to connect with it more deeply and get more involved with it.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: And the camera enabled me to do that.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it meant I could go home and back into my life and look back at these images, and I'd be back in that moment, the only moments where I felt any sort of joy or connection at all.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it was really, really powerful for me.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it gave me a tool towards beginning the sort of healing journey, which I think we go on throughout our whole lives, but it was a very fundamental starting point for me.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that nothing else brought me.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it was um, yeah, it was quite a momentous moment for me.
• 27:08
  David McClelland: I scribbled something down, which I found quite profound, but maybe is very, very evident to other people.
• 27:16
  David McClelland: And it's about the camera as a connection machine.
• 27:19
  David McClelland: And I I know it's it's awful to uh make it such a mechanical device, although of of course it is.
• 27:25
  David McClelland: But it got me thinking back to an interview that we did on this podcast earlier this year in March 2020 for Gabriel Matola, who is uh therapeutic photography practitioner.
• 27:36
  David McClelland: And for her, the camera was very much about connections with humans and using street photography as a way of engaging with other people in a way that often people find challenging, but actually using that to help herself, to help other people who she works with in a in a therapeutic way to create a connection with humans.
• 28:00
  David McClelland: And then your experience as you just described it, and as I know that you've gone on to explore much further for your own journey, but also for other people's wellness journey as well, is about connection with the with the world around them, with with nature, with landscapes.
• 28:16
  David McClelland: I I love how you've moved, as you say, into macro as well and an even closer exploration as well.
• 28:25
  David McClelland: But of course the camera is also about the person who's taking it.
• 28:32
  David McClelland: It's about connection with yourself as well as what's through the other end of the viewfinder.
• 28:37
  David McClelland: And I'm curious as to how the camera has helped you not only to connect with the world around you, but also to see yourself in that viewfinder.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very interesting question that um I like to believe that everything we see in the world is almost like a a projection of how we perceive the world.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, if we go out and we see a lot of of beauty, there's something in that that then reflects back to us.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: And especially since I've been getting more involved with macro photography, I see more and more things being reflected back to me, often emotions and characters and things like that in my images.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I see photography as quite a creative thing.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when we look at other creative things in life, whether it's painting or writing or things like that, we can often see a lot of the painter or the author in the person's work.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I see the same with regards to photography.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, of course, for me when I began, all I did was photograph sunsets because that was a reflection of where my joy was and it lit me up and brought me joy.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas now it's like coming to this more, I guess, grounded, centered place of being really at peace with where I am.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: And because of that, rather than travelling around and photographing all these sunsets and chasing the light, I'd much rather go into the woodland and just sit for an hour and do very sort of contemplative, mindful photography.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it just reflects back to me where I am right now in my, I guess, mental and emotional states.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I begin to see it in images.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I've been through periods of my photography journey which have been about adventure, and I've been going out and chasing the northern lights and you know, doing all these crazy late-night um photography adventures and stuff.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I think especially when you look back at the years that you've been doing photography, you see these patterns, and then you look back and think, oh my gosh, I was really adventurous back then, or oh, that's, you know, I was really into this or into that.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just interesting when you you see the growth journey, I think you're on, and especially when you go to different genres um and different uh techniques within photography, you begin to see how you change and evolve throughout the years.
• 30:46
  David McClelland: You have a new book, your first ever book that you teased recently and will be uh uh hopefully making its way into lucky people's hands very soon indeed.
• 30:58
  David McClelland: Tell us about that, because the language thing I find really, really fascinating about the language that we use in this industry.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, from shooting to creating, how changing your language can transform your photography.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it's an interesting concept.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: I actually heard it a couple of years ago from um Paul Sanders, um who's a very uh mindful photographer.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: And he I did I went to a talk that he did, and he was just speaking about the words that we use in photography on quite a broad sort of level, and just saying, you know, the sort of places that he felt they came from.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it planted a seed in my head, which then led me to go down this avenue of exploring this in much greater detail.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I began to stop using the words shoot, capture, take, and snap, at least when I remembered anyway.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: I do find that take still regularly comes in, which is completely fine.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: This book, by the way, is not saying we shouldn't be using these words.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's taking people on an exploratory journey so they can work out what words feel best for them.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: But what I realized is that when I started saying make and especially create more, that my images began to say something else.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was almost like I became really fully embodied the creator of my images.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: And this more softer, mindful approach um really coincided with me beginning to change my language.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I just find it interesting because, of course, again, we all perceive the world differently.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I take people on a journey through this book rather than saying this is what you should be using and what you shouldn't be using, because everybody's different.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: So to some people, shoot, capture, take, and snap are very resonant.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, in certain styles of photography, especially when you're photographing things at very quick speed, these sort of um, you know, words can make sense.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I recognise going back to the health and wellness, you know, that we're living in a very stressful world.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of anxiety, a lot of mental health issues.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I realize that sometimes the words we use can be playing into that to a certain degree because of the frequencies that these words have and the emotions that can be associated with these words.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, I'm just hoping with this book that it will give people some food for thought and maybe consider using the words make and create in um in replace for the more common words may help them not just with their photographic growth, but also on their personal journeys as well.
• 33:16
  David McClelland: I watched the video where you opened the first proof of your book a very, very special moment.
• 33:24
  David McClelland: But I'm disappointed, Kim.
• 33:26
  David McClelland: I'm disappointed because you didn't smell it.
• 33:29
  David McClelland: Oh And that's the first thing that I do whenever I open it.
• 33:32
  David McClelland: Well, whenever I get a book or I'm I am in rapture in a bookstore because I can just smell the fresh print on the books.
• 33:39
  David McClelland: I'm not sure if it's good for me or not, but it must be very, very exciting for you.
• 33:43
  David McClelland: And this is the this is the first book that you have have worked on.
• 33:48
  David McClelland: How's that journey been for you?
• 33:49
  David McClelland: How's the process been and how excited, nervous, apprehensive?
• 33:54
  David McClelland: What what how would you describe your emotions?
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very mix of emotions.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's incredibly exciting because I've always wanted to publish a book.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually started writing another book at the start of the year, which I thought was going to be my first book, and then this idea just came in and it sort of unraveled over four or five months to the completion.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but of course, I am a bit apprehensive.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think I I expect there might be a little bit of um I'm still trying to work out exactly what word is the right thing to explain this, but I know not everybody, of course, will necessarily um maybe agree or or take on the stance that I'm I'm trying to portray within this book.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that's I guess why I've written it as more of a journey.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: But I think there's a part of me that that worries that some people um may not be quite um as open to exploring it.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: So there's like a part of me is really excited because I really feel that this book can really help people, especially if they go through that journey.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: But of course, with everything, you don't know how it's going to be received, and you just hope that it'll be um able to help many people as well.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: But of course, to to publish your first book is is such a wonderful moment and it's something that I've dreamt of for many, many years.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, a lot of mixed feelings there, but mostly excitement.
• 35:06
  David McClelland: Just going back to the connection thing for a moment, you are fairly prolific on social media, on your YouTube channel, for example, with the rate at which you are connecting with with your audience.
• 35:18
  David McClelland: How how easy or difficult, how natural or unnatural did you find that part of your journey to where you are right now broadcasting yourself, sharing what are, frankly, certainly on the podcast side as well as on the videos, some very per deeply personal takes on on who you are, how you are, and and what you do.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's certainly been a journey.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, when I began YouTube many, many years ago now, it it was just a hobby, and I never expected um people to listen to it, you know, maybe a couple of friends and family.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it just kind of snowballed.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been kind of on an up and down journey with it, of course.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: There's been periods that I've absolutely loved and periods that have been more challenging.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I began the podcast last year and did it for about a year to share more, not just of my own journey, but also to get other people on to share more, more deeply about their journey as well, so that we can hear all these stories about how photography has transformed so many people's lives.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: So of course it can be uh a bit scary sometimes sharing, especially, like you say, some more deeper and emotive parts of your life.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I think I'm I'm always under the impression that if if I can just help one person with me telling a part of my life or a story, and somebody feels some sort of resonance or some sort of hope in what I'm sharing, then you know it's it's something well worth doing.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: And um, thankfully, for the most part, it has been a very positive experience from from that side of things.
• 36:48
  David McClelland: And finally, for now, Kim, in terms of your output, in terms of the images that you create with your camera, how how would you say they have developed with this exploration over the last few years of connection, of connection with nature, of uh understanding how other people met maybe the challenges that they have uh and the journeys that they've been on, how would you say that has influenced, perhaps, impacted, changed, transformed your work?
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's an interesting question.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think when I began photography, it was very much, although unconsciously, finding these moments of joy.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then I went through this period of sort of doing what most people do.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: You kind of go around and you travel around the country and you photograph the iconic places and get these sort of traditional landscape images.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then in recent years, it's been really about that coming back to self and and working out, you know, what is it that I really enjoy?
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I've I've one thing it's become really clear to me.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: I've worked with a number of people who have mobility difficulties and of course have other health challenges and or maybe they're carers for people and you know themselves.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: So they might not have health challenges, but they care for others who do.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: And they don't have the resources or the time to go and travel and do, you know, landscape photography, but they can go into their garden and photograph things.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been very inspired by speaking and working with people like that to realise, you know, what is on my doorstep and how can me connecting with that inspire people who may not have the accessibility to do other forms of photography.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's really trying to make it as inclusive and accessible as possible, um, whatever people's budgets or means are.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's what I try and do mostly now, is just to help people uncover what they can do and yeah, see if I can find suggestions for them so they can enjoy photography as much as everybody else.
• 38:42
  David McClelland: Kim, it is great work that you do.
• 38:44
  David McClelland: Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: You're very welcome, David.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's been an absolute pleasure.
• 38:53
  David McClelland: Thanks again to Kim.
• 38:54
  David McClelland: We'll put links to Kim's work and her website in the show notes.
• 39:03
  David McClelland: Basil, in part one of the show, we focused on the smartphone brands that most people will already be aware of.
• 39:09
  David McClelland: But your take is that some of the most exciting camera innovations in smartphones are to be found in perhaps the less familiar brands.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: I really, really like camera phones.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a big geek, and like you said at the beginning of the show, it's the phone that you always have on you.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so when there's technology that can help me capture the exact image I have in mind, um, I'm very excited for it.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think the first time I really stopped and thought, wow, this stuff's amazing that's coming out of China is Nisiaomi launched a phone with a larger sensor than any other smartphone.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um and since then it's snowballed.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: So now we have phones which have variable apertures ranging from F1 to 6 all the way to F4, which, when paired with a really big sensor, a one-inch sensor, the same sensor found on a Sony RX100 compact camera, um, that really is exciting because it means I can get the effect I want, that beautiful blurry background for close-up objects.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: Adding to that even more, you're getting phones that feel much more like camera systems.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: So the Oppo Find X7 Ultra, it has four cameras and they try and cover the holy trinity of lenses effectively to give you a zoom range that is continuous by employing AI and optical lenses.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: So all of that, I know that was a big hodgepodge of excitement, but that's really where like the child in me, the kind of geek that got me into photography in the first place, gets very, very passionate about smartphone technology coming out of China because it empowers you to feel less restricted with what you can capture.
• 40:52
  David McClelland: We love a bit of passion on the podcast, Basil.
• 40:55
  David McClelland: No need to apologize at all.
• 40:57
  David McClelland: So, again, when you think back, and let's say that smartphone cameras are just over 20 years old.
• 41:04
  David McClelland: I had one of the first, I had a Nokia 7650, which was not quite the banana phone, but it it still slid up and it had a little, I think it was VGA uh colour sensor in there, and it was 2002 when I got that.
• 41:19
  David McClelland: I loved that camera, and believe it or not, I've still got plenty of shots from that.
• 41:24
  David McClelland: But when you think back all the way back then to even fairly recently, cameras have certainly improved in their capabilities, but there are barriers or perceived barriers certainly to the quality of the output.
• 41:36
  David McClelland: And one of those, like you say, is the size of the sensor.
• 41:40
  David McClelland: But the other one of those that I'm really curious about, and you mentioned there, is the lack of variable aperture.
• 41:47
  David McClelland: Now, any photographer who moves out of auto mode will know the importance of understanding the role that aperture plays in amount of light being let onto the sensor and the whole depth of field.
• 41:58
  David McClelland: So what they will realize how limiting having a fixed aperture will be.
• 42:02
  David McClelland: And smartphones being so tiny and trying on the whole to move away from having any moving parts that have typically had fixed apertures.
• 42:10
  David McClelland: But but you're telling me that that's not really the case anymore.
• 42:14
  David McClelland: We are having variable apertures and the larger sensors to go with it.
• 42:18
  David McClelland: This, I can understand why your your passion and your excitement comes out if that's the case.
• 42:23
  David McClelland: Let's let's go on to the apertures, maybe first of all, there.
• 42:28
  David McClelland: Is the effect really all that though, when you are looking overall at such a small package size?
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: Now it didn't used to be.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_02: If uh anyone remembers the Samsung Galaxy S9, that phone actually introduced variable apertures.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_02: It had its two-stage variable aperture, went from f1.5, I believe, through to f2.4.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: But the sensor was so small, the aperture range was so limited that you there was a slight exposure difference between shots taken at each aperture, but it wasn't noticeable.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: It added very little real value, if any.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_02: Now, because you have those one-inch sensors I was talking about, which is already the size of a sensor of a premium compact camera like the Sony RX100, and you have the variable aperture with Xiaomi, for example, in its latest phone, the Xiaomi 14 Ultra, introducing a stepless variable aperture, a series of blades that creates this very smooth aperture range.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: It isn't actually stepless, but that's the impression Xiaomi wanted to create.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: You have this great degree of control when with that big sensor, you want to reduce the light that hits it if you're shooting in a very bright uh environment.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_02: And also naturally, at the F 1.6 range, you have more background blow you're able to create.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: But more importantly, for photos, you can control shutter speed.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_02: For videos, that's much harder to do.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_02: So Variable aperture is actually more important for shooting in a bright environment.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: Firing that up aperture up to F4, you're still able to get a really beautiful 4K video with that big one-inch sensor getting all the depth that creates, all the detail, all the dynamic range, 13 stops of dynamic range with the new 14 Ultra, and the aperture control makes that footage usable.
• 44:26
  David McClelland: And we were mentioning partnerships earlier on.
• 44:28
  David McClelland: Leica is part of the party here as well with the Xiaomi 14 Ultra.
• 44:33
  David McClelland: They're uh contributing to all some of the color science maths that's taking place post-capture, I guess.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: Leica is contributing to that.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: The Summer Lux lens, uh, Leica has two shooting modes.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: When you fire up the Xiaomi phones with Leica branding, you can either choose Leica Vibrant or Leica Authentic, and then you can decide the look that you want your photos to have.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: And Leica's looks typically across both are quite classical, they're quite traditional, but like with a real sense of kind of uh like old magazine vibes.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like if it feels very, very camera-like and in auto mode when you're shooting with a Leica camera, Xiaomi makes.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: And the Xiaomi 14 Ultra is a really great example because it is one of the first phones I've used to really feel like a camera system rather than four individual cameras with the results tacked together.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I I really, really love the Xiaomi 14 Ultra.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_02: I love using it, I loved reviewing it.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I would urge a photographer who wants their camera phone to not limit them to look into that specific phone.
• 45:45
  David McClelland: Another phone, we're talking about moving parts here, Huawei.
• 45:48
  David McClelland: Now I remember the days of the Huawei P20, P30 Pro again, going back about six or so years ago.
• 45:55
  David McClelland: One of their phones now, the Huawei Pure 70 Ultra, that's got an additional moving part in it as well, now, hasn't it?
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_02: While I wanted to overcome the challenge of not making the phone too thick, if you look at that Xiaomi phone I was talking about, because of the one inch sensor, it has the most almighty camera bump around the back, which is something Samsung Apple, they don't want to do that.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_02: Again, another reason uh that maybe you're seeing more um uh advanced hardware out of Chinese brands is they're a little bit more daring with their designs.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: Huawei, however, has uh created a primary camera with a one-inch sensor that creates the distance required between the lens and the sensor by popping out the lens in order to capture a photo.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_02: And it also combines that with a variable aperture as well.
• 46:45
  David McClelland: I I have to name the obvious thing, though, with Huawei, an elephant in the room, if you like.
• 46:50
  David McClelland: Uh, how does that play with some of the apps that people would be familiar with downloading from the Google Play Store?
• 46:56
  David McClelland: Because Huawei cannot access the Google Play Store at the moment.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's very restrictive in the West.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and this is I uh having just come back from China on a trip, it was quite uh astonishing to see just how popular Huawei phones are in China.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I everyone had a Huawei phone in their hand pretty much.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um and they're actually selling more foldables than uh brands like Samsung worldwide purely because of the China popularity.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're in China, a Huawei phone is going to be uh unleashed effectively, but you'll be very restricted with no Google.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: You won't be able to access your Google Play Store.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_02: So download all your apps freely.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you'll find everything from mobile payments through to maps to be a real challenge.
• 47:42
  David McClelland: Now, a phone that again won't necessarily be on the tip of everyone's tongue is well, uh manufacturer is Vivo, and they've got a really interesting handset with the X100 Ultra.
• 47:52
  David McClelland: Talk to me about the 200 megapixel Periscope telephoto camera.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, it's able to capture that big resolution image, and also it combines it with a very near focus distance of around 10 to 15 centimeters.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_02: So the macro shots that you can capture with this camera are incredibly detailed.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: Also, Vivo and Oppo and a lot of these manufacturers aren't putting five times zoom cameras in their phone.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot of photographers will appreciate that because when you have a five times zoom camera, it goes beyond an actual a typically used, very useful focal range.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm taking a portrait, I'll tend to do it at about 80 millimeters or thereabouts.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_02: I won't go all the way to the 120, which is what Samsung, Apple, and Google are doing.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_02: So with that more useful, slightly nearer, slightly less far-reaching Zoom, but with that big resolution, so you can crop into that sensor for instance of cropping to give you range if you want to go further.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the X100 Ultra is uh undeniably, in my opinion, the best smartphone camera on the market when it comes to Zoom and a Zoom telephoto camera.
• 49:14
  David McClelland: So, in summary, Basil, we've covered both the mainstream smartphone manufacturers, their handsets and the camera capabilities in those.
• 49:23
  David McClelland: And we've also covered some of these manufacturers that people might not see in people's hands as they as they walk along the high street here.
• 49:31
  David McClelland: Would it be fair to say that it if you are serious about photography on your smartphone, that it absolutely pays to be a little bit more adventurous, or maybe just to look beyond the front pages of the CarPhone Warehouse magazine.
• 49:46
  David McClelland: Oh gosh, I remember used to picking that, picking that up from the train station every morning on my way into work.
• 49:51
  David McClelland: Um, but to look beyond some of those obvious names because there are some really interesting features and capabilities in these maybe lesser-known brands.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_02: Now, we rely on our phones for so many things.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: So the first thing you need to do is make sure your phone does what it needs to as a phone.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_02: And this is where, for example, picking up uh imported Chinese phone or a Huawei Pure 70 Ultra, there may be too many limitations.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm guessing very few people will find that to be a trade-off worth it for an amazing camera system.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_02: However, the phones that are available in the West that are perhaps made by uh Chinese phone makers like the Xiaomi 14 Ultra, you might find, especially if you're already an Android user, that there aren't many trade-offs.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_02: But yes, absolutely the camera benefits could be significant if you really want to push your smartphone photography.
• 50:45
  David McClelland: Thank you so much for chatting us through those.
• 50:48
  David McClelland: And I I've no doubt that some of the features that we've covered in part two of our conversation, as we discussed in part one, they will filter their way into some of the mainstream handsets as well.
• 51:00
  David McClelland: And who knows where what we'll see when Apple does announce its iPhone 16 range and whatever Samsung has in line for the S25 Ultra.
• 51:11
  David McClelland: That is almost all we have time for.
• 51:14
  David McClelland: A big thanks to everyone who's been in touch over the last few weeks.
• 51:18
  David McClelland: We love hearing from you.
• 51:19
  David McClelland: So keep your messages coming in.
• 51:21
  David McClelland: Social media at the photography show on Instagram.
• 51:24
  David McClelland: I'm at David McClellan TV, there, where you can DM me if you like.
• 51:28
  David McClelland: The photography and video show is on Facebook too.
• 51:31
  David McClelland: And if you want to just drop us a good old-fashioned text message, well, then you can do that as well.
• 51:36
  David McClelland: Just tap on the link in the show notes on your mobile.
• 51:39
  David McClelland: Texts are included in many people's mobile plans, but do check with the bill payer first.
• 51:44
  David McClelland: A reminder that the in-person photography and video show takes place from the 8th to the 11th of March 2025 at the XL in London.
• 51:52
  David McClelland: That's right.
• 51:52
  David McClelland: If you haven't heard already, the show is taking a trip to the Capitol in 2025.
• 51:57
  David McClelland: More on that soon, including, I've been promised, a chat with the show organizer team.
• 52:04
  David McClelland: So do get in touch with your questions about London 2025.
• 52:09
  David McClelland: Basil, it's been an absolute delight to have you on the show.
• 52:12
  David McClelland: Let's do it again soon.
• 52:14
  David McClelland: Until then, where can people find out more about what you get up to?
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_02: I review predominantly on digital camera worlds, amongst other titles.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: And uh on YouTube, you can find me on youtube.com forward slash tech underscore edit.
• 52:27
  David McClelland: Superstuff.
• 52:28
  David McClelland: We'll be back on the first Thursday of next month with more photography and video news and chat.
• 52:34
  David McClelland: But for now, have a great September.
• 52:36
  David McClelland: Bye-bye.