Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Lose Who You're Not | a conversation with Amy Carroll

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Lose Who You're Not | a conversation with Amy Carroll · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: Hi friends, welcome back to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: It means so much to have you choose to take this conversation along with you today.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Amy Wicks, your host, and here at Simply Wholehearted, we provide perspective, purpose, and plans to help you love God, love others, and live your best life.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: Today's guest is the lovely Amy Carroll.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: And if you haven't met her yet, well, you'll be so glad you know her now.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: She is full of wisdom, grace, and while she has taught us a lot about breaking up with perfect, she is now also teaching us how to exhale, to lose what we are not, love who we are, and live our one life well.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: You most likely have met Amy Carroll before through Proverbs 31 Ministries, or even heard of her podcast that she co-hosts with Sherry Grigory.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's called Grit and Grace.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: When her new book Exhale came across my desk, I knew that this was a perfect tie-in to a very important step of our Enneagram journey.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: We must remove the mask of our type and lose who we are not to embrace our God-given, wholehearted life.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: By the way, if you're new to the Enneagram and you need to know the best place to begin, head on over to simply wholehearted.com where you can find my Enneagram Quick Start Guide and my one-page summary, which gives you an overview of all nine Enneagram types.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: This might be a perfect way to follow along in the conversation.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: And now you can learn what the Enneagram can do for you, what it is, what it's not, and all nine types in less than 30 minutes.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: My Easy Enneagram 101 course is only the price of a fancy cup of coffee, and you'll be confident that you are on the right track of your Enneagram journey.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: Stay tuned for lots more Easy Enneagram material.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, and a shout out to Jessamine and Rue for the lovely music you are hearing in the background.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: Now here's my conversation with Amy Carroll.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's a busy life when they're the age your kids are.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, and we have gotten used to a much quieter life when everybody's home.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's great for about a week.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: And as you can tell with my parents and my in-laws, it's the same way.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, yeah, I think I think we're good.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: Have a go now.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: But waving at the red tail on the kids.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's so fun.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: How many kids do you have?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: And do you have grandkids now and all of that?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we have two sons.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and my young, my oldest son is he he has finished grad school and he just is starting his first job this week.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then my youngest got married in May.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I have a daughter now, and she's amazing, and I love her.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: So no grandchildren and no rush for that.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I will say I am looking forward to it.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: I bet.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: I know, I already am.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's gonna be the arrival season that we'll look at each other and be like, we probably have an ice maker outside of our fridge and we have grandchildren, therefore we have arrived.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: It is right.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's so good.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: Well, for you then, as as you've entered into this season and it's newer, especially when you have a son fully launched into his career and a son launched into marriage.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: Where did this this message of exhale come into play for you?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, um, especially when my sons were small, I lived this lifestyle where I was exhausted, you know, because it's exhausting to parent, but also I was not living a very examined life.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I was I was spending my life to exhaustion, but I was in this place of wondering, does it really matter?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: What am I doing that really matters?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the byproducts of having a podcast, you know, is that you hear more conversations that women kind of talk back to you with a podcast, which is so awesome.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: The thing that Sherry and I were hearing over and over again is this common theme of I'm spending my life to exhaustion, but I'm not sure if I'm doing the right things or if any of it really counts for anything.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: This the secondary pain that we were hearing is that women were feeling disqualified from doing anything that changed their lives significantly from that really kind of negative space.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: And they wondered, you know, um, sh do I have the right to to step in here and make a change that would make my life feel different than this?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: And um my friend Debbie Wilson said this so well to me in my living room one day.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: It just stunned me.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: She said, I hear women saying that they feel they spend the first half of their lives feeling like they're not enough, uh-huh, and the second half of their life feeling like they're too much.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: Oh man, isn't that the truth?
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: We go back and forth, even right.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like from one season to another, we're like, not enough, not enough, then too much, too much.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, not enough, like not um educated enough, not um qualified enough, not skinny enough, not citrus perfect enough, all of that, and then the too much of um it I'm too over the hill, I'm too um out of date, or um I'm too late.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that that feeling of too late can happen at any point in our lives.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely it does.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so you're right, it doesn't necessarily mean like at 40 you start feeling differently, but there's always this kind of back and forth between the two, but that is a terrible way to live.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I've I've been in that place.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so when we were hearing these voices of these women um just really expressing those pain points, we felt like in in the process of our friendship and living a more examined life, that we were finding some solutions to some of those problems.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that was really where Exhale was birthed.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I came to Sherry and I said, I really want to help women stop spending their lives to exhaustion and start investing their lives in soul satisfying ways.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: And Sherry was the one that she paused a minute, she's like, you know, that's really good.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: But we talk to reforming perfectionists and people pleasers, and she said, Amy, if we tell them to do that, they will really try to do that, but they will add it to their list.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: They'll make it one of the things to do.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and they're already trying to be all things to all people, and so she said, and they'll fail again.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: And she goes, I really feel like we need to help them go through a process to lose who they're not first, yeah, to give some space for some change, to love who they are, not this crazy self-love stuff that our culture is talking about, but because they're because God created them, and then they can live their one life well.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it it was so funny, Amy, because it fell out of her mouth like she had just thought of it.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: They need to lose who they're not, love who they are, live their one life well.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, wait, did you just think of that?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like, No, it was my rejected book proposal.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, isn't that amazing?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: That is amazing.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like God had to grow that message and then speak it through both of us.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: It was just it was so cool.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, how how amazing how the Holy Spirit brought you two together and then speaks through each other in a unique way, plus the years, right?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the years of experience and having something more to offer.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: I did have a friend tell my husband and I once, I don't think anyone should write a book until they're over 40 or until they're at least 40.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there's something very interesting, and I don't mean to discount anyone.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: I have dear friends who've written books before they're 40.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: But there is something even in my own life that I think, oh yeah, I'm really glad those books that I wrote all those years ago didn't see the light of day because there's been so much more that the Lord has taught and birthed and shaped and honed in on.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's so true.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: If you would have read the book that I read in my 30s, you'd just be in a mess right now, can I just say?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think, yeah, for probably for all of us.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you use this term examine, and I'd love for you to unpack it a little bit.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think I know what you're talking about, but I I think it's something that we need to sit and examine itself for a little bit.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I was just having a conversation with a good friend this morning.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: She's such a godly woman, and I said, How can I pray for you?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, Pray for me that I would do what's important, not just what's urgent.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I think there's that little book that was published years ago, The Tyranny of the Urgent, but don't we live in that?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it expresses it so well that whatever's the next thing in front of us feels like the next thing we have to do.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: And we don't examine that very much, mostly because we're living so fast.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I live totally a lot of life by the seat of my pants, you know.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but the interesting thing is this Jesus never did that in the book of John.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus said that he told his disciples, these are words in red, but the Amy translation is right there.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's good, we'll take them a little bit of memorize.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: But he said, he said, I only do what the father tells me to do, and I only say what the father tells me to say.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Now that's an examined life.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: And we're so human.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that we can we can totally get there, but goodness knows we can we can do a little bit better by slowing down.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: How did Jesus know what to do and what to say?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because he listened to the father.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he took time to listen.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so if we'll slow down and take time to listen to our father and um and to only do what he says to do and say what he says to say, um, I call that the principle of intention.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's what Jesus lived by was this principle of intention, not living life by the tyranny of the urgent.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and so that's really the examined life.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's good.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I do Enneagram coaching.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was just, I had a session last night with someone, and we were just talking about the reality that tyranny of the urgent even looks like text messages that come through.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: And for some personality types, that that is even in itself such a burden because the there's a constant call or urgency or compelling to answer right away when those are some of those things that we need to examine, even that simplistic of a routine part of our day, text messages.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: We need to examine where those fit in our lives and how much urgency and priority we're putting on that.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: You are so right.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great insight.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: And even as you were talking, I was thinking, because I'm a to-do list girl.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I live by the to-do list, and really it's a memory tool for me.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: I can't if it's not written down, yeah.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I can let those to-do lists overwhelm everything else, and um, and texts uh fit in that for me.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: So when I get the text, it adds to my to-do lists immediately.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Interestingly, my oldest son, Anson, he's 25.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so, but and so most 25-year-olds have just grown up in that generation where their phone rules them.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, he is not that person, so and so if there's a time-sensitive thing, he will get back to you immediately.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: But if it's not time sensitive, you will wait.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and you know what?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: We just we laugh about it at our house, like we know we're gonna wait for a response for Anson, but that's okay.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: He's trained us to wait.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's true.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, I could do that too.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: You can, you have permission to do so.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, well, I know I'm talking to a fellow Enneagram three.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: So talk to me about how that plays into this whole idea of exhale.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think I'm actually a one.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm a one.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you can correct me, but I have friends that are threes.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: My friend Lynn Cow is a three, and we kind of mirror each other.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think the motivations are a little different, but our lives look a lot the same.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that is fascinating because one of my really good friends, Katie Roselli, and she's been on the podcast quite a few times, but she's a one as well.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: And we she's we're always going back and forth where she's like, Am I being a three?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, all of that different stuff.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so then we talk about the subtypes because that really plays into, I think, especially when the one and the three mirror each other, there's subtypes in both of those that make them look really similar, but they're also an amazing partnership, and that's what I feel like they just in that way, in that mirroring each other.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: We've just found like great comradeship in that where she helps me be well, just you know, more present and methodical and less in the urgent, and and then I encourage her to not wait for perfection before she does something.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: But ones and threes get stuff done.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: We do, we do.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: I I do love that about us, and I'm super grateful in those moments that I'm a three.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: There's other times that I'm like, eh.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: In healthy places for yes.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: But for you, then as a one, uh, what does exhale that message look like for you and how does that play out?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, it was so funny because you know, different people who teach Enneagram call these numbers different things.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: So the first time I took an Enneagram test, I was clearly a one, um, probably wing two.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then um, but I I loved it because they called me a reformer and I liked that.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, the reformer.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: But then in the run back to you, they called me a perfectionist.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, wait a minute.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: I know because my first book was called Breaking Up with Perfect.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm like, no, that's what I've been trying to play from.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: I should have known right off the bat.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's amazing.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I did Enneagram stuff after writing all that.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, totally.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, um, you know, perfectionism has been a way that I keep people at arm's length.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it is um, I I want to be perfect to earn love and approval from you, but it's also a way to keep you at arm's length.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know, there was a woman after after one of my speaking events, she goes, I've avoided people like you, women like you, my whole life.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh it crashed me up.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Yeah, I get it.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, but I thought, you know, but that is part of the function of perfectionism too, is to keep people a little at arm's length or a little intimidated because if they get too close, they'll know we're not perfect.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes, they may find out.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so um exhale, the lose who you're not part has been so important for me because um perfectionists don't want to lose anything, we want to just fulfill all of it.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um but but the losing who I'm not and recognizing who I am not um is freeing, but it's also really hard sometimes to to what I've realized is and Sherry and I have are alike in this way that we've processed this together that we would like to not need a savior.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't that the truth?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: I like that's the thing that's finally, you know, like a revelation to me of like I've been spending my whole life to try to like be okay without him.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: And when the whole entire time he's like, um, hello, you're supposed to grow more dependent on me.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right more independent.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I've even treated growth spiritual growth as a way to not need him.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm so glad I'm not the only one.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's a painful thing to confess.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've been walking with the Lord for over 40 years now, and to realize that as a woman that's 51, to go, oh my word, how have I missed the beauty of the need for a savior?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: That I can I can be a one Ennegram in a healthy way and get some things done, you know, and to move things forward and to um improve things.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think the improver is the other name for that.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and to actually improve some things while not carrying the weight of being responsible for it all.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that's been a huge battle for me.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's just I I say I have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so I have my fun.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: I have spent the majority of my life feeling like not only am I responsible for it all, but I'm to blame for it all if things run off the tracks.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so um exhale has been, I mean, we're lit, I'm literally trying to live out that exhale.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: And the lose who you're not, um, you are not perfect, you do need a savior has been a really huge light bulb for me in this process.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, and that's what I was I thought that that subtitle of Lose Who You're Not just really stood out to me because in the Enneagram coaching process, the whole point of understanding your type is being able to remove the mask and be able to live in the fullness of who you were intended to be.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe help some of us out who are trying to, I mean, you hear the whole lose, like we don't want to lose anything.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: And there's also a little bit of the mantra out there in counterculture that would say, you know, embrace all of who you are, you know, and just like you be you and all of that sort of stuff, and where there's some thread of truth in that, and uh, we actually need to like, you know, lose part of ourselves.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: So how can you help those listening understand what that might look like for them?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: And in a bite-sized chunk, realizing your book dives into this in a greater detail.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, one of the things um that you said that I that I really resonate with is you talked about how counterculture is saying, well, it just didn't embrace who you are, and and there is um, there are even t-shirts that say perfectly imperfect.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and and so that's that idea of it will embrace your imperfections also.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: And but there's gotta be something in between um be perfect and embrace your mess, you know, and and I think the Bible presents it.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it was interesting.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: I was sitting with a friend one day, and uh when I was writing my first book, and I said, But the Bible, I mean, Jesus says be perfect as our father, or is our father's perfect, you know?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, and she goes, Go home and do a word study on that.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: She's kind of a theologian, and so she grinned at me and didn't just, I know, didn't just hand it to me.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: And when I did some word study, and uh and it's kind of unpacked in the amplified Bible, uh, the word perfect actually means mature, whole, and complete.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: I like what we want to be.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I'm already hello.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly, exactly.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: We want to be mature, whole, and complete.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's such a different um definition of perfection than what I was carrying around.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I really found I had to lose my own perfectionism so that God could do the perfecting work that He wanted to do in me.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: So there is a work that needs to be done in us.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's quite right to say, well, I'm just gonna embrace the mess.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: And if for Christians, we call it sin.
• 20:25
  unknown: Right.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I'm just gonna embrace the sin.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's not that's not truth, but God has a perfecting work to do in us, but it requires a savior.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're relieving back around to that idea.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: The whole grace, right?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: That we need to receive that grace, we need to accept that grace, and we need to walk in it, not as a license to just be whatever and continue wearing the mask, but to be in the fullness and the wholeness that the Lord can give to us here on earth.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that mask is a form of creating our own image.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you know, of really truth.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: And we were never made to create our own image, we were called to reflect God's image.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's a it's a subtle shift, but it's an essential shift in the way we think about things.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love it.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think this is so good.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: Well, for those who are listening, and I I know that we're all like nodding our heads and going, yes, we need more of that.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: We need more room to exhale, we need those, um, just has some help and permission for the boundaries and to lose who we aren't supposed to be and really walk in the fullness of who the Lord wants us to be.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: So, for for those listening today, what are maybe three things that they could examine in their life or three things that they can do to to walk forward in some of this, maybe even as they wait for their Amazon delivery of your new book?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think one of the key things that women especially struggle with.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: With is to love who we are.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm going to kind of center these three things about that idea.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: Is number one is to flip the way you think about loving yourself.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because of our culture and this whole self-love movement, um, I think that we kind of tend to avoid that and to think, oh, well, that's not Christian.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's not a there's such a fine line, right?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's a tough one.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so, and I would agree that affirmations and looking at myself in the mirror, telling myself how beautiful and smart I am, that just isn't gonna cut it.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not convinced.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, however, I got to looking at Psalm 139 and David, he does say, I am fearfully and wonderfully made.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: But the I think the first few words are key.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: He says, I praise you because I'm fearfully and wonderfully made.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: And if we would flip this idea and see loving ourselves as an act of worship towards our creator, um, I think it would really help all of us.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's the first one.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great game changer.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: The second one is a challenge, and it's to dust off your quirks.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I think most of us, we don't necessarily want to be known as quirky.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, there's just some connotations about that word that don't really exactly.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: It makes us feel like we don't fit.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: And yet I really believe that those are some of the things that are woven into us that God wants us to dust off and use for his glory.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, Sherry and I joke about how I'm wordy girl and she's nerdy girl.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: So and but both of us have tried to hide that at different points in our lives.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: And um definitely wordiness is to be tempered, but I I actually hid it.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and Sherry is a brainiac, and she tried to hide that because you know it makes you not fit in.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: But we're finding that these are the very things that God is using for his glory in our lives.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's all right, brushing off the quirks.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then the third one is to really reframe your past and your hard stories.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Over and over again in the Bible, we see particularly women, I love it in the New Testament, the women with the issue of blood, the Canaanite woman, some of these women that are so familiar to us that it's their hard stories that bring God glory and bring comfort to other people.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: That those are the things that God wants, not hidden, but brought into the light and shared, um, to bring comfort to other people, to bring meaning and even redemption to our stories by sharing them.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's good.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, recently a group, a small group of mine have been going through To Be Told by Dan Allender.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know if you're familiar with that.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: He's got a ministry up in Seattle, but he he uses this curriculum for lack of a better term, and you know, through books and a book study and online stuff, but this idea of we all have a story and the Lord is in the process of writing it, but he's also written a lot of things that are worth examining, even in the hard times, and to find out how the Lord fits in it and how he was central to it all.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um but I I think I think that's a really powerful piece is to to acknowledge it and to embrace it and see what story that the Lord would have us share um just through our lives and to others that how we can encourage one another.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: So and and in that whole idea, but first we've got to embrace that we're not too much and that we are qualified to be able to share those things.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: So that's so good.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what are some of the next things that are coming up for you, Amy?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: I know also Sherry, your podcast is going full steam ahead.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: And are you doing some online studies and and things like that central to the book?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: We are right now.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: We're having a great time.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: We've got a private Facebook group, but anybody who asks to be part of it, we will let you write in.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's called Exhale Small Group Leaders.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: And um, we have a small group curriculum, and so we're walking through a season with small group leaders, just doing some extra training and support and encouragement and having a great time doing that.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Anybody that might be interested in it, if they go to our website, exhalebook.com, we've got study materials, there's a fun personality quiz, all the information is there.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and you know my audience loves personality quizzes.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: So we're all about that.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, we love them at Great and Grace too.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: That's great.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's so fun.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you are delightful, and I have um I've definitely enjoyed this conversation.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: I've enjoyed your words over the years and and even your training.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: I actually took your um speaker training that you offered in like Kindle book series or something to that effect.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: It was kind of one of those, it was wonderful and very encouraging and help-shaped.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I those are one of those things that you talk about when you do them, you go, Whoa, I think I was made to do this, and just something collides with you know the creativity and the Holy Spirit.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: And speaking is one of those things for me, and um, and uh one of those things that I was ashamed of too for a time, right?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: Because I didn't know quite how that looked as a a mom and just in a very different season of life.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: So anyway, I just appreciate you know little things like that that have blessed me over the years and kind of have led me to where I am now, which is super fun.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it has been amazing to talk to you today and to be part of Simply Wholehearted.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: I it's a it's a joy.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome, awesome.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't Amy Carroll so kind?
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: I sure appreciate her wisdom and encouragement.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: I know Exhale is a book you'll want to check out today.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you click on the share button and send this episode on to all your friends.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: And if you haven't yet joined Simply Wholehearted on Instagram, then hop on over to join the Enneagram conversation and be inspired to live your best wholehearted life.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: And while you're checking out our show notes, would you leave a five-star rating on iTunes or your favorite podcast app so others know they are welcome here and what to expect in our conversation?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: Next Monday's episode is going to be with Jennifer Camp.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: She's a fellow podcaster, speaker, and incredibly lighthearted.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: She and her husband are passionate about equipping busy folks with truth and helping us to engage life powerfully.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: We are chatting about prayer, sharing our stories to encourage others, and the Enneagram.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: So until next time, let's invite others to join us as we pursue perspective, purpose, and plans for a simply wholehearted life.