Latest / Leaders In Payments / Women Leaders in Payments: The Future is Human with Kimling Lam, Fortis | Episode 505

Transcript

Women Leaders in Payments: The Future is Human with Kimling Lam, Fortis | Episode 505 · Leaders In Payments

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Women Leaders and Payments Month, where we highlight and celebrate the women shaping the future of payments in FinTech through their leadership, insight, and impact.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: A special thank you to Payrock for sponsoring this year's series and for powering the continued advancement of women across our industry.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Now, on to the show.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, everyone, and welcome to this Women Leaders and Payments Month episode.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Today I'm honored to have as our special guest, Kimling Lamb, the Chief Marketing Officer at Fortis.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, Kimling, thank you so much for being here and welcome to the show.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me, Greg.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: So let's start with a little icebreaker.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: So if you could instantly become an expert in one non-work-related skill or hobby, what would it be and why?
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: If I could become an expert, I would become an expert philosopher.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: I actually love, love, love reading.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: It was actually my college major.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Love debating the why and the how behind things.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so if I could just spend my days really delving into philosophy, that's actually what I would do.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's awesome.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about your background and career journey.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: So give us a quick snapshot of your background, maybe where you grew up, where you studied, what led you into the world of payments?
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Very interesting, uh disconnected path.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up in Orange County, California.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the child of Vietnamese war refugees who came to the U.S.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: in 1975.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm amongst the first generation born to our family out here in California.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm actually currently in Colorado, not currently in California, but that's where I came from.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up in Orange County, California.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Fun fact about that area, for those who don't know, the largest Vietnamese population outside of Vietnam is actually there in Orange County, and it's called a community called Little Saigon.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: They've got TV stations, they've got city counselors, they've got radio stations, they've got all signage in Vietnamese.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's a really, really thriving community, that sort of that expat community outside of Vietnam.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where I grew up.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then I went to school on the East Coast.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: I went to Wellesley College and Boston University, where I got a master's degree in broadcast journalism, became a TV news reporter, and ended up being a TV news reporter out in Monterey County and Santa Cruz County, California at the NBC station there.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: And this is very pre-Youtube, so I'm really dating myself.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a very interesting experience, but learned the art of telling a story to your audience in a very succinct manner.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: You have 75 seconds to package up a story every day for that 5 p.m.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: newscast or 6 p.m.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: newscast, whichever one you're you're assigned to.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the the idea is to craft a story that inspires people, educates people, moves people.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: So that parlayed into a communications and marketing career.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Ended up at doing software sales after I left TV because I needed to make more money.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Those who know journalism know that it's not a lucrative career.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was doing software sales for a while, then became that company's founding marketing team member just because of the communications and background that I had.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I ended up at a payment startup in early 2014.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: And the rest is history.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: So between that payment startup, then I went to Ad Yen, then I went to checkout.com, then I went to WorldPay, which was acquired by FIS, then was at FIS for a while, then ran my own marketing consultancy as a fractional CMO.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: And someone in the past came and tapped me, and that's Greg Cohen, our CEO at Fortis, and he asked me to come lead marketing at Fortis.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been at Fortis for the last about almost a year and a half.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: So from the news at five to the CMO of a payments company, I love the journey.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, along the way, was there a person or an opportunity or maybe an unexpected moment that really helped you shape the direction of your career?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, honestly, I've worked with founders most of my career, even when I was doing software sales, and ended up pitching that software company's CEO to become the comms and marketing lead because they just didn't have it.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I found opportunity, and what I really thrive in is taking ambiguity and creating a plan and a strategy and driving goals and an outcome out of something that is ambiguous.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: And usually it's growth related, usually it's technology related.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: And having that sort of CEO sponsorship and trust, I think, was really pivotal in my career in early days to give me the chance to become a marketer without marketing training, right?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Just journalism training and some sales cold calling under my belt on the software sales side.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so I really do credit that CEO at a company called Meltwater back in the days, who gave me my first comms and marketing opportunities.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then since then, it's really been through my network.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really, whether it was the payment startup that I was at called Balance to Add Yen to Checkout, it was all through my network and people who thought that, you know, Kimling, maybe you could come make a difference here.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so I really, really value the connections I've made and the people who've seen the potential impact that I'm able to make at a company.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, tell us about your role today at Fortas and what part of your work are you most excited about right now?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh, there's a lot.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: As chief marketing officer, I was brought in to ultimately drive growth via marketing strategies, right?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Lead generation, demand generation, build the brand.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: And those are all, I think, basic or in the wheelhouse of marketing in general.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: But the most exciting thing right now is the advent, I think we all know, of generative AI and LLMs, large language models.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: And in the last six months, I've just seen the world change technologically and marketing capabilities also leapfrog decades of what was sort of traditional inbound demand gen and work that we were all doing, content marketing.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: And now we're able to iterate so much faster, scale so much faster.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the most exciting thing now is thinking about how marketing workflows change with the usage of AI, where marketers are now subject matter experts and orchestrators of work streams rather than the, you know, everyday doers of like writing the social post word by word.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're commanding it and commanding almost like a fleet of agents, almost like a team of their own to help generate the things that they want in brand voice, you know, in our guidelines, with human strategy and judgment orchestrating, but really scaled through AI.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's very exciting.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Additionally, as a marketer, I think we do much more than brand, right?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: We're this is all about driving growth via top of funnel channels and also improving pipeline velocity.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: So we're looking at that at Fordis and all the different ways that we can increase top of funnel, increase pipeline velocity, and really support the whole go-to-market organization in driving growth.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's pivot a little bit and talk about leadership and perspective.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: So this year's theme is the future is human.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: So when you hear that phrase, what does it mean to you as a leader in payments?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: When you say the future is human, I actually find it so interesting because in the age of AI, which everyone is talking about, I think at first it sounds like that is disconnected, right?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Inherently disconnected, human and AI, that's disconnected.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I love that theme, Greg, because I think humans, human cognition drives AI.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's a large language model.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: Language is the base of the mathematical models that are running AI.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that human interaction and that human cognition and that judgment and that language are what's driving AI technology.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so I very much think that this is a very exciting time to be alive and a very exciting time to be harnessing technology and to be human.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, payments, as you well know, is becoming more digital.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's more embedded and more intelligent.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: So what do you think that leaders need to keep front and center as this industry keeps evolving?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: I still think it comes down to the fundamentals of being customer first.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: And being customer first at the end is also being people first, right?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: People are using technologies, people are driving the businesses who are driving the economy today.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: So when we look at Fortis, we are thinking about B2B commerce, but intrinsically that's human-run businesses driving outcomes for their business customers.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so I really think that being customer first, customer-centric is part of who Fortis is, and it's something that we think about every day.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: When we're thinking about how AI is impacting our workflows and our journeys, we're still putting our customers front and center and their experience front and center, and technology is the enabler.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what is something that you have learned about leadership that you wish you had understood earlier in your career?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: The thing about leadership that I wish I knew earlier in my career is that it takes a team to really accomplish great things.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think heroics are often the default you'd like to go to, of like, oh, I can do this, or I'll just go handle this myself and I'll go make this happen.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: But heroics alone are not scalable.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really about driving a strategy that a whole team can get behind and a mission a whole team can get behind, and inspiring those team members to do their best to the best of their capabilities to accomplish the goals of the greater good of the group, right?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's really easy when I was younger, at least, to feel like the hero and the one to go get the that thing done.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: But that that just doesn't scale.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's a great answer, and so true.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: And especially in this day and age where people think that people can do so much on their own, right?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: With the help of AI, like you've talked about.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's go back and talk about the human side of payments.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: So behind every payment or behind every transaction, there's a person.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, in even in the B2B world that you guys play in, there's people behind it, right?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: So how do you think about the human side of payments in the work that you do?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: I really think it's at the heart of what we do.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: When we think through use cases, pain points, it's all about what that human is encountering.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: So when we talk about B2B payments and AR, accounts receivables, right?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: The pain point in embedded payments is that they're operating inside their software platforms or their ERP systems.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then historically they've had to, what we say is historically that people have had to do swivel chair accounting, where they have to go into their other payment system to go manage a payment and reconcile it within an invoice or manage a refund or counteract a chargeback.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then they have to go back into their software system and try to reconcile records and update things with their customers.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: And what Fordis is trying to do is really take away that pain for that human, that person to really let them work within their software environment, reduce, you know, pain points like invoice data sales outstanding, or, you know, reconcile one record with another.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, in the end, I really do think it's about simplifying the human experience in the B2B environment, whether it's payments or whether it's software interactions.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're all unifying into one experience.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how, whether it's a pop payments company or software platform, is how we should really be thinking about that journey.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: So trust is such a critical part of our industry in payments in fintech.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do you think companies can build and maintain trust as the industry becomes even more automated and more technology driven?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the thing about payments, right, that we always have joked about is you trust it until you don't.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: And you only start to lose trust when it's broken, when that payment doesn't go through or that fraudulent payment goes through.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Something just doesn't go right.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, it's this invisible, almost like utility.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the air, it's like the electricity, it's the water in your tap.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's really about making sure that it is a seamless experience for everyone.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that trust continues to be earned by making sure that we are prioritizing seamless experiences.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, when you kind of step back and look at the broader payments industry, what is one trend or change in the industry that you believe will have the biggest impact on people or businesses over the next few years?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think to build on our conversation, I think that we've had so far, I think the trend is going to be that sort of human-centered design and that user experience.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: So whether it's consumer-based, you know, digital wallets or in-app or mobile payments to cross-border, it's really going to be that flexibility, right?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: So even my days at Ad Yen over a decade ago, it was always about simplifying things for the customer, cross-border, cross-channels.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think now in the B2B world with Fortis, it's also going to be about cross-channel simplification.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's about enabling businesses in the B2B space.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine companies that go to market via field services, right?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: They need to get terminals out in the field.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: They need to be accepting payments out in the field.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: It needs to reconcile into their software platforms easily.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: In the past, they've relied on invoices and check payments.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say even today, in 2026, where there are a lot of businesses that we're helping who are still accepting checks.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: And we're really trying to make this a smoother, digital, faster, and seamless experience for their business.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's talk about mentorship impact and sort of what's coming next.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, who has influenced you along the way, whether it's directly or indirectly, and what did you learn from them?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great question.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think that there's actually an early reporter who was at the NBC station in the San Francisco Bay Area, Damian Trujillo, and I haven't talked to him in years, but he was really influential on me in early days because he gave me this sense of you can do it, was always his ethos.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: He came from a migrant family who worked out in the fields in Salinas, California, where they grow a lot of, you know, it's an agricultural hub of California.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: And he became an on-air TV news reporter for an NBC station.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so he always gave me this sense of this is the dream.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: This is a place where we can actually make it happen by working hard diligently and carving out our own opportunities.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I am truly still a believer in that.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that self-direction and that ability to make that impact has left a major impression on me.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, gives me that that sense of confidence, and some would call it a delusion, but it's that you can go do it, right?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: You can just, all right, I'll just go figure it out and I'll I'll go do it.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was really impactful on me.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what advice would you give the next generation of women that are entering the payments and fintech industry?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot I'm thinking about, about young people and women who are entering the payments and fintech industry.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: One thing I think about is that I really benefited from in-person interaction and working in an office for the majority of my career before the pandemic happened and we all moved to remote and hybrid environments.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: So when I think a lot, I actually just we're onboarding someone who's fresh out of school today on the team, and she's taking a BDR role.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I've really thought a lot about how do we do to develop someone in their career who's coming out of school, new to fintech, new to payments, and entering a hybrid work environment.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: I would just say be proactive, right?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Ask questions, ask clarifying questions.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Learn what a clarifying question is.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean that you're challenging someone.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: You're asking them, well, when you say this, what does that mean?
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you're asking for clarification to help drive you forward and help educate you.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say be curious, be engaged, ask questions.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: In this hybrid or remote first or virtual environment, you're not gonna benefit from those quote unquote water cooler conversations.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think people in the 20s probably don't even know what a water cooler conversation is.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so, so they're going to have to learn through these virtual environments.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I think seeking out those coaching conversations as well is gonna be really important, you know, and bring some structure to it.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're reaching out to someone for a coaching conversation or a mentoring conversation, I would say, as a young person starting out in your career, come with a goal or an outcome of what you want to learn from that person.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it's so how do you prioritize your day or how do you set goals for yourself quarterly?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, set those objectives for yourself so that you can learn something from that coaching conversation and don't just expect that that coach or mentor will just know what to share with you because they they're probably years out.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm decades out in my career, and I don't know exactly what's going on in the mindset of a 20-something year old who's starting their career in a social media AI first world right now.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: So you've worked at you mentioned kind of a smaller startup company in the space.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: You worked for Addy in a large company, Fortis, kind of, I guess, medium-sized company.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what are your thoughts?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what would you tell younger people about kind of the advantages and disadvantages of those different size companies?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: They're very, very different.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: But I would say that the thing to know about large and small companies is to always be learning and don't take a passive stance.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it's a large company or a small company, you want to be learning about something that's going to further your skill set or how to go solve problems that'll benefit you in the future.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: And don't just, you know, rest on your laurels, let me say, and wait for someone to teach you how to do something because that's when opportunities will pass you by.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: More opportunities will come your way if you go seek them out, if you go seek problems that you think you could solve or at least participate in solving.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I've learned that large and small, that that attitude and that proactiveness will serve you no matter the type of company.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's great advice.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: So let's wrap up with one final sort of fun question.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: What is one app or podcast or book, TV show, hobby, maybe favorite way you unwind that would give us a glimpse into who you are outside of work?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm actually quite an outdoorsy person and I love my dogs.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: I live in the Colorado foothills, and I have a new app.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't know if it's new to the world, it's new to me.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: There's an app I'm obsessed with right now called Merlin.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's from Cornell University.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you turn on a recorder and it turns your geolocation and it helps you identify the bird sounds and songs that it's hearing.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so you can watch this app and it'll light up what birds are actually singing.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've learned about I know how I identify now, crows, robins, hummingbirds, finches.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I just love I think it's AI enabled and it's amazing.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's just sort of teaches you to pay attention to your senses and the outside world and in ways that you wouldn't, because I think I've often thought of like bird sounds as sort of background noise.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm actually hearing the distinctions between sounds.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that's just a random thing.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: I really enjoy it.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like all those kind of apps that have come out, like you can tell what kind of a tree it is if you just take a picture of it, and all those things are just it's fascinating.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: So technology can still help us interact with the world, it doesn't just create, you know, that barrier away from the world.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, and that whole isolation thing and understanding the the younger generation that have grown up that way is is a fascinating topic in and of itself, I think.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, hey, I think that's been a great way to wrap up the show.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I know your time is very valuable, so I want to be sensitive to that.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I really appreciate you being on the show today.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: And again, thank you so much for being here.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I really appreciate your time.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much, Greg.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: I really, really appreciate you having me.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: And to all your listeners out there, I thank you for your time as well.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: And until the next story, it's good.