Latest / Promoter101 / Promoter 101 # 251 - 800 Pound Gorilla Media's Founder Damion Greiman

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Promoter 101 # 251 - 800 Pound Gorilla Media's Founder Damion Greiman · Promoter101

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  Speaker 1: Ba-da-ba-ba Ba-da-ba-ba Alright Promoter 101 Promoter 101 It's Promoter 101
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  Speaker 1: And I love.
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  Speaker 2: It I love it It's Promoter.
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  Speaker 1: 101 And I love it I love.
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  Speaker 3: It Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the 251st episode of
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  Speaker 3: Promoter 101. In this special episode, we're sitting down with
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  Speaker 3: Damian Griman, founder of 800lb Guerrilla Media. From his early
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  Speaker 3: days at Outback Concerts in Nashville to launching a label
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  Speaker 3: and building one of the leading comedy social platforms, Damian's
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  Speaker 3: journey is all about finding the next big thing, and
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  Speaker 3: we are excited to have him on this podcast just
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  Speaker 3: a little bit.
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  Speaker 1: Plus, we're on the pulse of the industry. breaking down
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  Speaker 1: the headlines, driving what's next. You're listening to the Promoter
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  Speaker 1: 101 podcast. No fluff, just the moves reshaping the business.
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  Speaker 1: Let's get into it.
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  Speaker 2: It's Adam Voith from Billions, and I'm on Promoter 101.
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  Speaker 1: Stay ahead of the curve. Stream past episodes of Promoter
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  Speaker 1: 101 anytime at promoter101. com. Got a question, idea, or hot take?
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  Speaker 1: We want to hear it. Email us at steiny at promoter101. net.
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  Speaker 3: And of course, come join us in the conversation online.
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  Speaker 3: On X, we are at Promoter101.
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  Speaker 1: I'm at WLukePierce.
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  Speaker 3: Dan is at TheJew over on Instagram and threads. The
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  Speaker 3: show is at StineyPromoter101. Dan is at Dan Presents. And
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  Speaker 3: I'm at WLukePierce.
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  Speaker 2: This is Andy Levitt with Live Nation Comedy.
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  Speaker 1: You're listening to Promoter 101. Luke, let's cut through the
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  Speaker 1: noise and get into the headlines moving the live music business. Dan,
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  Speaker 1: let's start off with some positive news. We haven't had
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  Speaker 1: a whole lot of that in the last couple of
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  Speaker 1: months here. So kicking it off with some reading here.
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  Speaker 1: Goldman Sachs dropping their annual music report, Music in the Air.
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  Speaker 1: So aptly named.
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  Speaker 3: And for the first time in three years, It raised
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  Speaker 3: some forecasts and numbers. Goldman put the global music business.
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  Speaker 1: At $ 112.
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  Speaker 3: 5 billion in 2025, and it projects to reach nearly
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  Speaker 3: $ 200 billion over the next decade, a 5.8% compound annual
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  Speaker 3: growth rate. The reasons for growth gives robust live touring
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  Speaker 3: what it calls the globalization of the concert ecosystem as
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  Speaker 3: the main drivers for things.
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  Speaker 1: That's the headline.
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  Speaker 3: You'll see it probably in every pitch deck from here
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  Speaker 3: to the end of 2027. The part that I paid
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  Speaker 3: attention to came late in the report when Goldman said
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  Speaker 3: record labels face, quote, a structural risk of market share dilution. Basically,
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  Speaker 3: AI generated tracks taking a bigger share of the royalty
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  Speaker 3: pool and less of it going to human made music
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  Speaker 3: owned by labels. So Goldman saying, Dan, the business is
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  Speaker 3: getting bigger and the labels share might get a little smaller.
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  Speaker 1: Both, I'm sure, could be true at once. And if
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  Speaker 1: I'm reading that as a manager, it's another argument for
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  Speaker 1: keeping those rights in house for live and for whoever
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  Speaker 1: actually owns the relationship with the fan. If I'm a promoter,
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  Speaker 1: it's Goldman of all firms telling the market that the
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  Speaker 1: most reliable growth is in the room with a ticket scanner.
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  Speaker 1: You gotta be feel pretty good about that, but $ 200 billion,
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  Speaker 1: Dan sustainable, or do you think we're nearing some sort
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  Speaker 1: of a top, some sort of plateau and nobody wants
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  Speaker 1: to talk about it? What do you think? You know,
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  Speaker 1: it's always an industry of act versus act and where
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  Speaker 1: the act is in their cycle. And what's hot, the
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  Speaker 1: fans will continue to pay for and set record grosses
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  Speaker 1: and ticket sales across the board. As you're seeing acts
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  Speaker 1: roll through two, three, four nights in a market, in
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  Speaker 1: a stadium, the rich keep getting rid of her and
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  Speaker 1: it's the stuff in the middle and lower level that's
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  Speaker 1: going to struggle. But you know, hot is hot and
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  Speaker 1: not as not, and that's always the way it's going
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  Speaker 1: to be. So yeah. The middle ground stuff is going
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  Speaker 1: to suffer more than when you're seeing bands like Oasis
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  Speaker 1: and Coldplay do multiple nights in a market and pull
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  Speaker 1: that kind of money out of the market because that
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  Speaker 1: means fans can't afford to go to other stuff. But
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  Speaker 1: there's always going to be some of that going on. Indeed.
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  Speaker 1: Let's talk about some big news in Washington this week.
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  Speaker 1: The American Tourism Act passed.
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  Speaker 3: The Senate passed it back in May of this past
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  Speaker 3: year and the House cleared it by a voice vote
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  Speaker 3: last week and now it's headed to the desk again.
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  Speaker 3: The president tells the Commerce Department to promote U.S. music
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  Speaker 3: destination to international travelers. Venues, festivals, studios, museums. The Congressional
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  Speaker 3: Budget Office, it's a CBO, says it costs less than
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  Speaker 3: half a million dollars over five years.
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  Speaker 1: Neva loves it. I sort of love it. Functionally, maybe
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  Speaker 1: a brochure, though.
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  Speaker 3: On the very same day the House passed the AM
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  Speaker 3: Radio for Every Vehicle Act, also by Voice Vote, with
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  Speaker 3: 317 co-sponsors. It requires an AM receiver in every new car.
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  Speaker 3: The Senate has until October recess, slides back in a
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  Speaker 3: lame duck. Two pieces of news, one kind of moving
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  Speaker 3: things forward, one maybe moving us all back.
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  Speaker 1: Into AM radio here, Dan.
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  Speaker 3: And then another bill here that actually matters, the Main
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  Speaker 3: Event Ticketing Act. It cleared the House Energy and Commerce
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  Speaker 3: 36 to nothing on September 16th, takes the 2016 BOTS
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  Speaker 3: Act and puts the obligation on the ticket issuer. So
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  Speaker 3: you You have to technologically enforce your own purchase limits
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  Speaker 3: and report that any sort of like circumvention or outside
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  Speaker 3: market to the FTC within 30 days.
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  Speaker 1: Penalties start at $ 10, 000 a day. Why does this all matter?
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  Speaker 1: Because right now, the FTC is suing Ticketmaster and Live
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  Speaker 1: Nation under the BOTS Act, alleging that they allow brokers
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  Speaker 1: to blow through ticket limits. Live Nation's defense is that
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  Speaker 1: Ticketmaster is the protected party under the BOTS Act, not
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  Speaker 1: the violator. This bill puts the ticket issuer squarely on
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  Speaker 1: the hook. But on the retail side, Coalition for Ticket
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  Speaker 1: Fairness Act says, It doesn't hand more power to monopoly
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  Speaker 1: because a platform's own rules becomes the basis for any
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  Speaker 1: sort of like violation. They have a point.
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  Speaker 3: Whoever writes the purchase limit also kind of writes their
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  Speaker 3: own crime, right? So Dan, music bill that's most likely
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  Speaker 3: to become law this month is this brochure act, basically
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  Speaker 3: the American Tourism Act here promoting the things. Is Congress
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  Speaker 3: ever going to really finish a ticketing bill or the
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  Speaker 3: state's going to have to do this for them? Like
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  Speaker 3: what else is it needs to be talked about here
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  Speaker 3: in Washington in a real way right now?
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  Speaker 1: Ticketing laws are going to continue to develop as technology develops.
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  Speaker 1: You're going to realize you change the rules. They're going
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  Speaker 1: to find new ways to beat the system because scalpers
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  Speaker 1: are smart. They've got bots. They've got technology. They're going
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  Speaker 1: to continue to create new levels to beat the system.
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  Speaker 1: And Congress and laws and promoters and ticketing companies will
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  Speaker 1: continue to find ways to fight them off and it'll
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  Speaker 1: continue to evolve. But it's going to be constantly changing.
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  Speaker 1: a game of back and forth, and it's a war
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  Speaker 1: that's never going to really truly be won. You found
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  Speaker 1: a demand, there's a product, there's a reason people still
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  Speaker 1: buy cocaine and sell cocaine, and it's because there's a
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  Speaker 1: demand for it. Ticketing is no different. As long as
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  Speaker 1: there's a demand, whether it's legal or not, you'll have
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  Speaker 1: somebody out there trying to turn a buck on a
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  Speaker 1: resale ticket. It's just what it is.
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  Speaker 3: I can't imagine the Sinaloans arguing too much about resale
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  Speaker 3: in America, Dan, but I think you're right. It's whack-a-mole
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  Speaker 3: across both ticketing and cocaine these days. Last story here,
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  Speaker 3: because I just can't fucking help myself, Dan. Surprise guest
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  Speaker 3: in the Live Nation settlement clauses here. So Live Nation
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  Speaker 3: filed an amended disclosure in the DOJ's settlement review last Tuesday,
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  Speaker 3: October 21st. It's the paperwork a judge uses to check
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  Speaker 3: whether a settlement was negotiated cleanly. The new version confirms
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  Speaker 3: that Donald Trump, President Donald Trump, briefly attended the March
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  Speaker 3: 5th meeting where settlement terms were finalized. Live Nation says
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  Speaker 3: he did not participate in any substantive settlement discussions. And
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  Speaker 3: it also discloses that Trump called Michael Rapinoe about the
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  Speaker 3: Kennedy Business Center and asked how the DOJ lawsuit was going.
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  Speaker 3: So why admit it now? Live Nation says, quote, out
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  Speaker 3: of an abundance of caution, of course. The next day
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  Speaker 3: after this, on October 22nd, Senator Elizabeth Warren and five
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  Speaker 3: colleagues released a 54-page report called Settling for Less. The
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  Speaker 3: Live Nation deal is one of its main examples. The
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  Speaker 3: report says the money in this settlement is worth about
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  Speaker 3: four days of Live Nation revenue, a number we've thrown
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  Speaker 3: out here before. It's been thrown around as a giant
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  Speaker 3: headline everywhere else. Here's my read, Dan, and I know
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  Speaker 3: where you're at now, but Live Nation may be completely
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  Speaker 3: right that nothing improper happened in that room, but it's
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  Speaker 3: a public interest question, and appearances, I think, count. And
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  Speaker 3: so the judge that now has to sign off on
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  Speaker 3: a deal that states who actually won a jury verdict
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  Speaker 3: in April are telling him that it makes Ticketmaster stronger.
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  Speaker 3: And the president's attendance is now on record. So I
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  Speaker 3: don't think you have to believe anything shady happened in
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  Speaker 3: the room to see that there's some credibility lost in
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  Speaker 3: this deal or just in politics in general in America.
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  Speaker 3: We still have this state's remedy trial coming sometime next year,
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  Speaker 3: and they're asking for a breakup. So Dan, if you're
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  Speaker 3: an independent promoter or a venue, or are you waiting
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  Speaker 3: on this judge? Or have you already decided that the
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  Speaker 3: state's case is the one that really matters?
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  Speaker 1: You think this is going to keep going on for
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  Speaker 1: a while? I think there is always going to be
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  Speaker 1: people that are going to be unhappy. And those are
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  Speaker 1: going to be the people that are on the opposite
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  Speaker 1: side of who's getting the business and whether you're happy
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  Speaker 1: with it or not. The president's a government employee and
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  Speaker 1: he has certain abilities to sit in the meetings. I
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  Speaker 1: don't know exactly what his places and his rules are
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  Speaker 1: and how that works, but I imagine if a governor
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  Speaker 1: or mayor wanted to sit in on those settlement meetings
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  Speaker 1: as a government employee, they'd probably be allowed to too.
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  Speaker 1: Like doesn't really change anything, but There's a settlement. It
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  Speaker 1: seems to be working through the process and it seems
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  Speaker 1: like it's probably going to keep, I think you're always
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  Speaker 1: going to have unhappy people whenever there are two sides
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  Speaker 1: to anything.
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  Speaker 2: And.
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  Speaker 1: Clearly, people want more. I think the thing you have
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  Speaker 1: to remember is, as an independent promoter, might think that
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  Speaker 1: if a certain thing happens, the show is going to
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  Speaker 1: go to them. But likely, the show is going to
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  Speaker 1: go to a bigger promoter. If it doesn't go to
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  Speaker 1: Live Nation, it'll probably go to AEG, or it might
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  Speaker 1: go to Nederlander, or it might go to Icon, or
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  Speaker 1: someone that can produce on that level. They're not going
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  Speaker 1: to randomly call a promoter that does three markets in
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  Speaker 1: the Northeast. It's probably not how that's going to play.
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  Speaker 1: If they're doing tour deals, they're probably going to still
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  Speaker 1: stick with a tour promoter. And yet, I seem to
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  Speaker 1: think until you're at that level to play that game,
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  Speaker 1: you can't expect that the next Rolling Stone tour is
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  Speaker 1: going to wind up in your hands. And Stones are
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  Speaker 1: maybe a bad example because A, they're not going to
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  Speaker 1: tour again. It seems like they're going to do residencies.
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  Speaker 1: And B, they're an AEG product's historically, not a Live
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  Speaker 1: Nation product. But I think you get my point that
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  Speaker 1: just because it doesn't necessarily go to one promoter doesn't
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  Speaker 1: mean it's going to wind up with you as an
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  Speaker 1: independent or probably wind up with another big player as
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  Speaker 1: there are like nine or 10 national tour promoter and
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  Speaker 1: global players now that can pull the money or produce
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  Speaker 1: at that level. And I don't see bands taking less
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  Speaker 1: money all of a sudden just because the laws changed.
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  Speaker 1: I think it's a good readout on it, Dan.
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  Speaker 3: It's always easier to kind of attack things from the
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  Speaker 3: outside when you're at some sort of incumbent disadvantage to
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  Speaker 3: a major player, major T-Rex kind of storming around the
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  Speaker 3: business at this point. So yeah, it's people trying to
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  Speaker 3: find the regulatory avenues to take pop shots in a
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  Speaker 3: competitive market is something that has existed probably since the
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  Speaker 3: beginning of the United States and well before that in
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  Speaker 3: commerce and trade.
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  Speaker 1: All right. Well, and there's also another thing I never
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  Speaker 1: really talk about because I've been in the Live Nation
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  Speaker 1: boat for so long. And now that I'm leaving at
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  Speaker 1: the end of the year, I think maybe I can
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  Speaker 1: say this with a little bit more Openness where it
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  Speaker 1: feels like I'm not just Live Nation screaming, Live Nation's
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  Speaker 1: the best promoter. There are good promoters on both sides.
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  Speaker 1: There are bad promoters on both sides. But Live Nation's
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  Speaker 1: very good at what they do. It's not just the money.
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  Speaker 1: It's not just the scale. They're fucking good at it.
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  Speaker 1: So is AEG. So is Nederlander. But there's a reason
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  Speaker 1: these guys are keeping these acts for so long. And
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  Speaker 1: it's not just about the money. They're very good at this.
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  Speaker 1: And it's very hard. You got to deal with sports.
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  Speaker 1: You got to deal with the change in the economy.
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  Speaker 1: When you're talking about a global deal, you've got to
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: talk about the difference in the dollar changing versus the
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  Speaker 1: pound versus what's going on in Canada with the oil
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  Speaker 1: and how that's affecting their dial and hedging your money.
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  Speaker 1: It's an insane business and the skills that are involved
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  Speaker 1: in the economic scale, not just something anyone can do.
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  Speaker 1: These guys are good at it and laws may change,
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  Speaker 1: but people that have the experience that know how to
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  Speaker 1: do this at that level aren't easy to find. It's
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  Speaker 1: a very hard talent, just as there's very few people
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  Speaker 1: that know how to build a stadium show. Anybody can
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  Speaker 1: put a stage on a field and a microphone, but
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  Speaker 1: to know that you need the field cover to protect
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  Speaker 1: the field and to know where to get the field
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  Speaker 1: cover is a thing to understand what size stage you
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  Speaker 1: need and how to build a seating chart for something
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  Speaker 1: that you can only pro cad the feel out for.
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  Speaker 1: And no one knows what that's going to look like
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  Speaker 1: and how you do that and how you make sure
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  Speaker 1: that you only build out and put tickets on sale
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  Speaker 1: for a stage spec. That's safe that you actually know
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: there probably will be more room, but until you actually
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  Speaker 1: build the stage and see how big it is that
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  Speaker 1: you can't add those extra seats. Like these are skills
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  Speaker 1: that only people that have lived in that space before have.
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  Speaker 1: So just assuming that the local guy is going to
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  Speaker 1: be able to pick that up and understand that without
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  Speaker 1: having the experiences is insane. You wouldn't want a doctor
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: to get disbarred and just somebody else that randomly has
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: a habit of messing around with medicine on the side.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: to step in and do your brain surgery, right? It's
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  Speaker 1: just like, you want someone of the skill set to
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  Speaker 1: do it. And I think in a lot of cases,
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  Speaker 1: the local guys just don't have it naturally because they
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  Speaker 1: haven't had access to build that stuff.
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  Speaker 3: It's, it's a bigger game. It's a bigger game. It
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  Speaker 3: operates at a different scale, right? Like it doesn't make
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  Speaker 3: a whole lot of sense for a local guy to
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  Speaker 3: have the specs or ability to do something when they're
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: going to do maybe one stadium show every three years, right?
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: It's a lot of fixed costs and building knowledge and building, uh,
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  Speaker 3: building skill sets and capabilities to be able to match that. So,
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: you know, you got to apply that cost against a
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: large scale to be competitive, right?
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: Experience is experience. The guys that know how to do
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: it are very few and far between. And a lot
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: of them are at Latination, a lot of them are
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: at AEG. But how many other people know how to
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  Speaker 1: produce a stadium show outside those companies?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: It's not a lot. It's a handful. It's a skill, right?
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Because just figuring out the egress of a show that
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: size is a skill set that most people just don't have. Anyway,
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  Speaker 1: my two cents. Good two cents. And with that, Dan,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: that'll do it for News of the Month.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: This is Darren Lushinsky from NS2, and you're listening to
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: Promoter 101.
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: Of course, it's not going to be a Promoter 101 episode.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: If we don't talk about what Dan has been thinking
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: over the last month here, let's take it. Tweets of
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: the Month.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Start here, Dan. When the feeling of energy in the
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: room takes the show to the next level. It's why
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: we all do this. It's creating that special moment that
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: makes it more than just a show.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: You had a particular show this month, Dan, where you
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: thought about that and then tweeted that?
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: You know, I was at the Ryman for Brad Williams,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: and the electricity of seeing Brad walk on that stage
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: just made me feel special. It was a great show, Dan.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Brad's such a talent. How about this one, Dan?
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: As most outdoor sports play during the day, could daytime
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: concerts work too?
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Worth exploring, right? At least maybe on weekends? Seems like
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: a thing.
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: Have you talked to our friend of the pod, Jonathan Shank,
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: about his amp tour next summer, Dan?
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: The parents rave? The baby rave? Baby rave. You gotta
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: love a baby rave. Gotta start the baby raves early.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: They gotta go at 11 so they can be done
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: by 1 for the 2 o'clock nap, Dan.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: Baby raves start early. What do they call those things
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: that are over the crib that circle mobiles? Raise the mobile!
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: Raise the mobile! We have some merch ideas for Jonathan Shank.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: We gotta get him back here on the podcast.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Shank.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: New job, new gig. We're going to have to catch
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: up with him soon. Love me a Shank. Lamb and Jonathan,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: they both go well. How about this one, Dan?
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: Ever wonder where that penny goes between the Excel PC
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: versus Apple issue on show settlements?
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: It's clearly the difference in a rounding error between how
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Apple does it and PC does it. But I love
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: the tour manager that truly tries to find it. Every
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: time that's a fun conversation where you try to explain
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: it's a rounding error.
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: Love that there are tour managers out there working Apple,
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: I'm sure, and PC at home for you, Dan. It's
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: got to be a subject of conversation for more than
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: one OCD tour manager out there.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: I got to shout out my friend, Chris Peck, who
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: does almost all of the Emporium settlements and Will Ford.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: I haven't seen a show settlement in well over a
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: year where I was in the middle of the mix
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: on that. Credit where credit's due, Luke. Credit where credit's due.
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: Well, Shout out to Chris Peck, because that'll do it
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: for Tweets of the Month. Make sure you keep up
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: with Dan. Everything he's thinking between this episode and the
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: 252nd episode of Promoter One, follow him on X.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: He's at the Jew.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Holly Gleason, editor of Woman Walk the Line,
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: here at Promoter 101, where they know how to get
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: it done.
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: Damien Griman has a habit of seeing what's next before
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: everybody else does. He started out at Outback Concerts in Nashville, Tennessee.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: Then he launched a record label and built 800-pound guerrilla
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: media into one of comedy's biggest social platforms. In this
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: special episode, he tells us how he spots talent early,
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: what he learned from live events, and why being early wins.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: Damien Grimes is joining us from the mammoth 800-pound guerrilla
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: media empire. Comedy is the thing. And, man, you guys
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: are in the center of it. 800-pound is working with everybody,
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: it seems like. Thanks.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: You know, we're 10 years in. And it's weird to
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: say that when we first started, it was hard to
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: get anybody interested in working with us. And so it's
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: kind of nice that a lot of people in the
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: industry actually know our name and have a feel for
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: what we do.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: So it's been a fun ride. So our relationship goes
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: back to your Outback days through my partner, Jason Zink,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: and Ned in the Outback office overhanging out around the
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: ping pong table. And I guess it's a playroom break
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: room thing that they had set up at the office, but...
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: The cool place to hang out with everybody.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: We had to get rid of it because people weren't
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: working anymore. They were just playing a ping pong. So,
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: but yeah, I do, I do remember those days.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: It's a good time. It was a good time. So yeah,
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: we've known each other for a long time and obviously
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: you've been in the business even longer than that. Let's
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: take it back old school and get into where did
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: you go to school?
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: I went to school in Southern Illinois University, Carbondale, Illinois.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: There we go.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The day after I graduated, I wound up moving
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: to Nashville to work for a concert promoter. It was
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: called The Gale Group. In my mind, I thought I
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: was going to go work for Contemporary or Her jam,
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: just being an Illinois boy around St. Louis, Missouri, going
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: to rock shows, wound up working for a country promoter,
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: which kind of set me on the path, ultimately, to
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: work in comedy about 30 years ago.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Contemporary would have made good sense for that. Kevin Doctrine
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: did a lot of comedy and wound up with Jerry Seinfeld,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: so that would have been a good path, too, those St.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Louis boys. He would not return my call, so... That
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: wouldn't return your call.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: I don't think anybody would return my call back then, but.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: It all worked out. The busy days, the busy days
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: of everybody calling and not emailing. So it was harder
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: to get through on the phones, I guess.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: Right, right. St.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Louis, Carbondale, and then to Nashville. So have you been
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: in Nashville this entire time?
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I moved here in 93, worked for that
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: company for about seven years. And one of the things
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: that we did was co-promote shows.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: With a guy named Mike Smarnak at Outback Concerts.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: At the time, it was just Mike by himself and
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: his wife, Kathy. He would co-promote shows with other promoters
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: around the country. I know he did it with us.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: He did it with Darren Leszczynski. I remember asking him like, hey,
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: it's none of my business, but wouldn't it be cheaper
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: to just hire somebody to do the work instead of
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: splitting all these dates?
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. It was his con.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. So what he would do is book shows
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: and he'll tell you today, I just want to book shows.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Then he would work with other promoters and we'd come in,
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: do the marketing, do production, go out, settle the shows,
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: do all the work. So that was my role with Mike.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: And so then after asking him, hey, what's your plan?
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Why not just hire somebody? He didn't wind up hiring somebody.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: He wound up hiring Darren. So then I was employee
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: number two there. Shortly after that, that was about 2000.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: Okay. So Darren, let's just do who is now National
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Shows 2 or NS2 if you're in the know. That
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: time at Outback, I mean, kind of murderers row. We've
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: talked about that on the podcast before, obviously.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Brian Penix, who's now at Vector managing Tommy Emanuel and
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: several other legendary acts as well.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: It's you, Kevin Brady, Jason Zink, Henry Glasscock. Ted Chapin.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: I can go on for another couple minutes with that, actually.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Kendall Moffitt, Ian Atkins. Ian works with me. Yeah, ultimately,
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: I think each of us wound up doing other things,
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: very different paths. So you mentioned Henry, you know, now
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: he's an agent at WME doing very well. Darren working
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: at NS2, you know what Mr.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: Zink is doing.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Everybody kind of, you know, after being there for a while,
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: it just felt like wanted to do different things.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: And so....
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: But yeah, there was a period where it was a
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: lot of fun. I think we continued to grow when
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: I first started. It's basically just me and Darren, and
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: then we grew to maybe 35, 40 people, something like that.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: So it was a lot of fun.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: So you start doing some music and comedy working for
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: this country promoter. You wind up jumping over with Mike,
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: your employee number two. Obviously, Mike does a lot of
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: bluegrass country, but comedy. had always been his thing. When
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: he was at Cellar Door before his Outback days, it
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: was him and Jeff Foxworthy. It was always about the comedy.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: So is that how you find your way deep into comedy,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: is Mike?
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember when I first came over to work
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: for Mike, I remember my boss before said, hey, you
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: better check with Mike that he's got other plans other
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: than Jeff Foxworthy.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: And so... I did.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: And Mike's like, oh yeah, I got bigger plans. And
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: he had a vision for it. But it did start
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: with Foxworthy and the Blue Collar Comedy Tour as far
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: as comedy goes. And you're right, he was doing other things.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: Tim McGraw, which we had co-promoted with him on, Alison
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Krauss and Union Station. There was a lot of different
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: things like that. But we kind of became known as
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: a comedy promoter through the Blue Collar Comedy Tour. And
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: then we took each of those guys out on their
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: own Jeff, of course, already known, but Larry the Cable
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: Guy really exploded during that time.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Ron Wyatt, Bill Ingvall.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: That led to doing Jim Gaffigan and Frank Caliendo and
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: other comics, so we kind of became known for that.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Right, now it's grown into Shane Gillis and several of
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: the other really hot, Nate Friazzi, are all hot bad guys.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: So they've done very well in that space, clearly. Yeah, yeah.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: But at what point, I assume after the Jam merger sale,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: when Darren left and Jason left and many of the
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: others left, is that when you ventured out to start?
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I left right after Jason. I primarily
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: split my time working on country music and also comedy.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: But after a while.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: Of being an independent promoter, we would do shows with
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: artists like Brad Paisley, and you finally get some traction,
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: you finally get something going, and then it always felt
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: like those tours would ultimately wind up with A bigger promoter.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: And so after a while, it just felt like my
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: path was going to be comedy.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: That didn't seem to happen as much.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: And then I had an opportunity to leave, and there
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: was a manager that was retiring, managing a comedian named
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: Rodney Carrington. And so I went over and worked with him.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: And yeah, it was a really good relationship with those guys.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: We were one of those artists that in the middle
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: of the country would do really well. In LA or
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: New York, not so much, but it really didn't matter.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: We were able to tour everywhere. And that was the
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: primary thing that we always talked about is like, How
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: do we do more shows? How do we get more
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: people to the shows? Which is one thing we wound
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: up doing to help that was to start our own
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: record label, which ultimately led me to do this. And
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: so after he had a deal with Capitol Records, we
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: went in search of either another deal or another label.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Kind of the vibe.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: Was you don't put much money or energy into comedy
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: audio because there's no money in it. And so we
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: just felt like, well, man, if the bar's zero, we
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: could probably figure this out. And we did, and it
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: works really well. And our agent at the time was
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Nick Nusiforo. Nick called us one day, and it's just like, hey,
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: I've got other artists who could probably use some help
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: doing audio. So if you ever want to get out
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: of the management thing, Uh, you know, just, just keep
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: that in mind. And that was one of the catalysts that,
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: that got us to starting, uh, 800 pound.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: All right. So 800 pound grill gets to start from
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: what was a record label built out, but you're much
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: more than that now, right? You're kind of full service
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: with your media service side.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: It's really grown. Can you talk about what other services
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: you guys include? Yeah.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: You know, we always say we help Canadians reach fans
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: and we do that in a lot of different ways.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: So it's distribution, it's marketing. Now we have an audience.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: We do production.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: We produce a lot of the specials that you see
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: on Netflix we're producing. We do a lot that we fund.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of times that comics will fund something
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: or they'll do something and bring it to us. Even
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: though we started as an audio company, that quickly led
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: to us, once we became the record label for Netflix
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: and Kevin Hart's company and Bill Burr and all things comedy.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: That led to us having all these conversations with different comedians, managers, agents,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: and them saying, we'd love to have a video solution.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: And so we started doing video. This is about six,
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: seven years ago. When we originally started doing video, we
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: thought at the time we're partnered with Netflix on the
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: audio side.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: We just thought like.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: Well, we'll just go shoot these specials and we'll sell
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: them back to Netflix. And this is, this is going
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: to be great. We had a few people that told us,
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: you know, you're going to spend a lot of money.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: You're going to try to sell these. They're not going
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: to want them. And then what are you going to do?
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: And we just felt like, well, we're smarter than everybody else.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: We're going to be able to make this work. That's
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: exactly what happened. We did a bunch of videos, tried
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: to sell them not only to Netflix, to other major streamers.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: It never happened. Honestly, it was a turning point for
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: the company because it really forced us to think about
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: building our own audience here, which we truly didn't think
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: of in a big way until then. And so cut
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: to today, I think we have 20 million standup comedy
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: fans that are engaging with our content every month. We've
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: got six different YouTube channels, Facebook, all the other socials.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: We have a streaming service now. So there's a lot
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: of different ways that we can reach comedy fans and
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: a lot of different ways that we can work with comedians.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: Okay. And did you sell all of those or was
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: everybody right?
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: What everybody was saying, that's exactly what happened.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: We didn't sell anything.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: You know, sometimes those mistakes turn out to be a
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: really good thing in the end. And one thing that
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: helped us was we would spend a lot of money
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: trying to get these specials to the specs of the
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: major streamers. And it would cost more money to do that.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: But when you're not trying to do that, and really
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: these video specials are going to wind up on YouTube,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: let's say, You don't need to spend that money because
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: the performance of the video isn't going to be impacted
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: by the quality and how much money you've spent. It's
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: got to be of a certain quality. It's got to
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: look good. It's got to sound good. But beyond that,
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: it's about the comedy. It's about the comic. It's not
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: really about how much money you spent. And so once
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: we really started wrapping our heads around that, that's when
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: we were able to do a lot more. And then
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: we were really able to grow our audience from there. Oh.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: You really flourished and you're working with a mammoth number
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: of comics at this point, the list has really grown.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: And even in the David Cross book, they, he, he
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: talks about you guys, which is super cool. Talk about
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: going full circle when you have, Oh, nice. Like working
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: that into the book. Yeah. I didn't even know that.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: It's, it's really cool. It's like on the audio book,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: he talks about you guys. That's great. It is interesting.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: You know, when we, when we first started, it's, um,
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: It was almost like you talk to a comic, they
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: wouldn't know who you were. You're trying to explain to
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: them what we do. And then when they say like, okay,
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: we'll work with you. You almost want to say like, really?
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: Like, why? You know?
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: And now that doesn't happen. It does feel like most
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: people at least know who we are. They may not
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: like us. They may not work with us. At least
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: they know who we are. And we are working with
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: a lot of really great, comics. We're trying to really
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: think about other projects that we can do with these
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: comics and how we can grow with these comics. And so, yeah,
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: it's really fun. And that's our next phase of the company.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: That's what we're thinking a lot about. So the first
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: 10 years, we really focused on building the machine, building
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: the audience, building out our distribution channels, the marketing, the audience,
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: all of that. The next 10 years, we're really focused
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: on what can we do with the machine? What else
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: can we put through it? What are other projects we
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: can do? We started investing in some feature films, and
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: doing some different things like that. So I think you're
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: going to see us do a lot of different things
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: over the course of the next phase of the company.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: So historically, the borders to entry for artists to put
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: out a record were very thin because the major record
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: labels that put out the regular music albums put out
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: the albums for people like Carlin and Andrew Dice Clay
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: over the years. Yeah. So there wasn't a ton of people.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: You had to be a Richard Pryor or Rodney Dangerfield,
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: Stephen Wright, maybe, to get to put out a comedy album.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: Very few people did it. There were specials, but you
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: had to get on one of the big cable primetime
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: distribution circuits back in the day. So in the 80s,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: it would have been HBO or possibly Showtime. I think
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: Gallagher's deal with Showtime, if I remember correctly, and Carlin
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: was HBO. Yeah. And then if you were lucky, you
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: could get on Rodney Dangerfield's new comic special every year.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: But there were very few outlets, and obviously now the
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: streamers have helped with that, and certainly the DSPs. But
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: you have a different world where it's easier to get
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: that content out there. But there weren't really record labels
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: that were really focused on just comedy side of it.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: So you guys have found a niche there, and then
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: have expanded that into the online content and... the specials
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: and what else can be wrapped around that. So it
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: seems like technology with the streamers has really changed the
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: accessibility for the artist. Yeah, sure.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: And not just the streamers, but social media and just
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: the technology in general, the barrier to entry is way lower.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: than it used to be. There used to be a
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: lot of the things that you're talking about. You used
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: to have to go to somebody and ask to get
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: a special made and go to somebody and hope that
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: you could get on a record label or a TV
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: series or something like that. Now, a lot of the
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: comics that we work with, we see them doing things
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: on their own. We see them building their own audience.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: You know, the downside is with the ease of doing
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: these projects, anybody can put out something, but that doesn't
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: mean that everything's good.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: And it doesn't mean that it's all quality. And now
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: anybody can put up a podcast, but Apple tells us
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: that almost half the podcasts that get put up have
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: one listen or less.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not every podcast is going to be Promoter 101, right?
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Obviously, there are different levels of experience that involve with everything, right?
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: So Joe Rogan, obviously, is the standard where people are at.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: But the difference between somebody just showing up on Apple
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: and someone actually getting clicked and downloaded and listened to,
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: And then someone actually making the top 10, all completely
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: different levels of things. And obviously that's where this comes
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: in on how you guys do it versus someone putting
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: up their own product.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. You got the Rogans, you got the Steinbergs,
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: you got the Conan O'Briens, and then you got everybody else, right?
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: Even if you're just like making fun of me, but
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: all right. No, I'm not making fun. But yeah, you're
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: exactly right.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: So one of those things that we think about because
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: of that, because of what we just talked about, there's
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: a need for some curation and for some trust. And
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: we feel like that's what we're building here. And it's hard,
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: being a comedian today, you're being asked to do a
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: lot of different things. I think at one point, maybe
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: you could just go to the show, work on your set, you're.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: Writing during the day.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Now you're being asked to be your own social media
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: manager at times. These comics are CEOs of their own companies,
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: and a lot of them are doing so many different things.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: And so our role in that, we feel like, is
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: just being infrastructure around those comics and helping them reach
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: larger audiences.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: And we have the.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: Ability to help with with things. So we're not looking
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: to own everything. A lot of times we're just working
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: beside the comic and helping them live out their vision.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: So have you ever got up at a club and
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: tried stand up yourself?
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: Early on, I think we're about three or four years in,
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: we had the bright idea to for our Christmas party.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: Have everybody on the staff get up and do five
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: minutes of stand-up.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: It's a whole lot longer than you think it is.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: It is a long time. We didn't think it through 100%.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: It was so much fun. It went about the way
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: that you would think that it did. It really gave
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: you an appreciation for what these comics go through.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: It's a lot.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: And to your point, it doesn't sound like much. You know,
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: you're just doing five minutes. It's not a big deal.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: It is, though. And you really see how much work
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: goes into it. I don't think we're going to do
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: it again. Now we have an HR department and at
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: the time we didn't put any restrictions on it, which
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: is not a good combination when you have people that
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: you work with and just, just say, you can just
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: get up there and say whatever you want.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: And, but it, uh, it was a lot of fun.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: So comedy is a much different game than it used
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: to be as well. Now there are satellite radio and
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: with satellite radio has come comedy stations that play comedy.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: all day long, things like raw, done comedy, what have you,
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: there's several of them. Comedy has to be formatted in
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: certain bits and distributed in certain ways to make it easier,
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: just like a song would have been for them to
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: play it. So I imagine that's part of what you
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: guys do is make it so they have those pieces
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: from the different comics so they can air that stuff.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, one of the things before we even
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: really knew that that comedy audio was a business. One
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: thing we really paid attention to was how is money
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: being made and what is happening. And it is different
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: in comedy than it is in music. In music, when
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: you talk to music labels, a lot of times they're
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: talking about Spotify and Apple. In comedy, a lot of
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: the talk is Pandora and Sirius. which is essentially the
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: same company. And the reason for that is the money
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: is made through sound exchange, primarily on Sirius Radio. And
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: so Sirius has a number of different channels. And the
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: more you get... spawn on those channels, the more money
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: you make.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: Pretty simple. You get paid the same way as royalties?
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: When they get played on Sirius, you get paid out
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: the same way? Yeah.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: It's a different formula than what Spotify or Apple uses.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: It's a company called SoundExchange.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: Okay. They're the pros per se for comedy? Yeah.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: If you're a comedy record label, one thing that you
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: will do is try to figure out what does a
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: place like Sirius need more of, which is what we did.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: One of those answers was good, clean stand-up comedy.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: When you got a clean, you mean somebody that's working
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: completely without swearing? and watching their content. So it's family friendly. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: So, so at the time, there's a number of different.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: No, it's, it's, it's, it's really not.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Uh, there's a, there's a couple of words in there
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: that are, that are key. One is clean and the
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: other is good.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: Well, it's essentially what a comic used to have to
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: do to get on the tonight shows. They had to
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: have a really tight set, but they also had to
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: be able to work clean for network television, which maybe
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: they weren't doing to the clubs, but. if they wanted
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: to do TV on any late night show, they had
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: to clean it up and they still have to clean
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: it up as long as it's on network.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. That doesn't mean that you, you have to
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: be clean to get played on serious by any means.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: And there are certain comics you, you wouldn't want to
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: ask to, to be clean.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: It, it just doesn't fit them. But that's, well, that
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: are used that you're used to hearing saying the other
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: words are good enough to make the joke work without
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: those words. And Richard Pryor, uh, did The Tonight Show
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: many times. Yeah, sure.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: You know, as far as the economics go, that's how,
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: as a comedy audio company or as a comedian thinking
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: about comedy audio, you're thinking about, like, how could I
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: get a little traction on Sirius? Doesn't mean you have
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: to be clean, but you are up against a lot
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: of different comics trying for those same slots. And so
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: it works different than... Spotify, where that's not the case.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: It works different than Apple, where that's not the case.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: So you are trying, like if you're trying to get
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: an edge, if you really want to get some traction
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: on Sirius, those are the types of things that you're
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: thinking about. Because some of those channels on Sirius, Netflix
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: is a joke. which we were working with Netflix at
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: the time that they started that, that's all Netflix specials.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: Comedy Greats is a certain level of comic. You've got
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: Comedy Central, which is a company we're working with now
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: on their audio. Those are all Comedy Central specials. So
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: it keeps limiting down to just a couple of of
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: channels that most comics are going to be able to
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: get on.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: You guys have figured out what they need it. They
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: need content and they need as much as possible to
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: keep those 24 seven stations rolling. Cause otherwise people are
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: going to change the station after they've heard the 32
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: bits that exist.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: So comedy central in the nineties seemed to be a
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: game changer. They made it so old specials can air
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: old sitcoms could air. They were cable so that you
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: could say different things, especially later in the day. And
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: It gave access to more comics because they needed content.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: And that changed the game a little bit. It seemed
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: like that made comedy bigger. And then it kind of
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: leveled off. And, you know, ebbs and peaks. And then
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: with the streamers, it seems like there's been more access
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: to more specials because you don't just need HBO or
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: Showtime or Comedy Central. Now you've got Netflix and you've
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: got Amazon and you've got Hulu. And so you've got
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: these other places where this stuff is coming. And obviously
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: a lot of comics are just putting their own stuff
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: right off on YouTube, right? You can find it now
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: and it's really there. So that's edged the game up again.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: So this bigger market than just these handful of people
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: that have a TV show, or having their specials that
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: were produced at that level. Now there's all these different
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: avenues to get it out there. It seems like all
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: it's done is made for a much bigger pool and
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: made it so the comic could find their audience in
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: many different ways, whether they're using Facebook to have little
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: clips or looking at big Matt Reich has gotten off
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: of his crowd work clips. Like clearly you're finding audiences
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: in different places. Even, you know, the use of MySpace
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: to use social media originally to go out there and
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: find that next level of fan and find a different
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: way to engage with fans to break. It seems like
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: comedy is continuing to be on the forefront of how
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: do we engage our fans and how do we find
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: them in a different place that the gatekeepers won't let
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: us through at networks. Yeah, you're exactly right.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: And just when you think everybody's seen my special, there's
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: a good chance they haven't. There is so much content
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: out there. There's so many people. There's something like 2.7
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: billion people that are on YouTube. There's so much there.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: And it's one thing that has worked in the past
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: for us.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: Matt Rife's a good example.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: Matt had a special called OnlyFans that it had a
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: couple million views that it was actually doing really well
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: on his channel. We put it on our channel just
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: to see what it would look like if we hit
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: a different audience with it. You cut to today, between
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: his channel and our channel, we have right around 30
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: million views. And so it's a lot. So there was
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: so many... fans that hadn't seen that. And then what
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: happened is it re-engaged that video also with Matt. And
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: so a lot of that's Matt. It's all Matt. But
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: there is something to being able to hit another audience.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: We always say it's showing the same movie in front
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: of a different movie theater with a different audience. And
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: so the more these comics do that, the more it
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: expands their reach. And then ultimately, you know, that's what
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: they're looking for, you know, to bring it back to promoting.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: What they're looking for is how do I get more
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: people to my shows? Virtually every comic that we talk to,
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: that's what they say to us.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: Right? The special doesn't really pay per se. It's like
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: an EDM artist inspect. and spending a bunch of money
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: on a festival with their big production. So everybody see
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: outs online. So they want to come see the live performance, right?
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: That's what comedy is. They're selling the special to get
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: you in the door to see that when they come,
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: cause that's how they're making their money. Whether it's at
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: the club doing seven shows over a weekend in one
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: city or playing the theater, that's how they make their money.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: It's all about that live appearance.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: We, we hear that a lot.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: If it's a club comic, they're, they're wanting, um, how
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: do I sell out my dates faster? How do I
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: get more dates at the club? How do I grow
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: to theaters? If it's a comic that's in the theaters,
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: maybe it's how do I get to arenas if that's
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: something they're looking for? And even big, giant arena comics
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: are thinking about more shows, how do I sell out faster?
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: All of those things.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: And it all leads back to the tour. When we
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: think about how the company grew and the things we
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: thought about, it was a really big thing for us
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: to come from the concert promoting world and really think
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: of these things as from the viewpoint of an artist
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: that wants more people coming to the shows. And also
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: from management. None of us have ever ran a record
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: label or a media company before or done video specials
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: or anything like that. We were just drawing from experience
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: from before. And it's been really helpful.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: So One thing we should point out is when an
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: artist drops an album, they go and they tour the
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: new songs and they play the hits to get people
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: to want to hear the new songs. When an artist tours,
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: they have already done everything in that special on the road.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: And anything they released on the special is the last tour, essentially.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: And most of them throw out the last tour or
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: that material you've heard in the special and everything you'll
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: see live on the next tour that usually is about
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: to start when they drop the special. is all brand
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: new material. So them getting it right on the road,
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: so it's like the last show usually, they'll record their special.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: So they're out there not working the stuff you saw online,
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: they're working brand new material, hoping the new material that
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: you just saw is pushing to come back and buy
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: a ticket to see something new, because how pissed would
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: you be if you just saw a comic on Netflix
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: for free and they performed the exact same material after
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: you paid $ 48? Yeah, you're exactly right. It's... So it's
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: a little bit different system in that way.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: It is. It's never ending for a lot of these comics.
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: They're on that never ending cycle of I just did
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: my special and now I'm starting over from scratch for a.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: Lot of them.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: Of course, there's exceptions and there's some that keep going
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: with a lot of the same material. But a lot
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: of the comics that we work, that's how they think.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: They think, I just did this special and now I'm
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: starting over. I want to shoot a new one a
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: year from now, a year and a half from now, whatever.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: And so a lot of times, you know, by the
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: time you see a special release, that comic could be
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: closing in on his, their next special already, because that's
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: how long it takes to get something out. And then
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: that's how long it takes to, to build something. So
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: it's a, it's a never ending cycle.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: What does it take for someone to get your interest?
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: If they're a comic, they want to work with you.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: They want to get out there. What's the best way
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: to get that in front of you to catch your attention?
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: We find comedians in a lot of different ways.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: Now we have so many relationships with managers and agents
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: and other comics that a lot of times things are
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: coming to us through those channels. There are a lot
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: of times where a comic that we just work with says,
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: I have another comic. And same with managers and agents.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: We always start with the comedy side. and go from there.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: And of course, if a comic has a large audience,
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: it is easier for us to impact the project. And
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: so that doesn't mean that you have to have this
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: giant following for us to work with you. It just
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: means that it's going to be easier for us to
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: actually moves the needle on what you're doing. We find
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: people in the clubs, on YouTube, going to shows, going
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: to festivals, from comics managers, agents, all different ways.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, so would you accept open solicitation?
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: Not right now, because we did.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: We used to take a lot.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: We get so much sent to us that what happens
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: is it takes us away from what we really want
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: to be working on. Of course there's exceptions and there's
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: those things that you get that are really amazing and
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: maybe we haven't heard of the comic. You know, everything
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: goes out the window because the comedy is so good.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: Through trial and error and through taking a lot of
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: submissions and spending a lot of time going through those submissions,
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: what works better for us now is thinking about who
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: do we actually want to work with, who's out there
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: that we feel like we could really impact in a
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: big way, and maybe do other projects with down the line.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: That's really how we're thinking about it. All right. One
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: other thing I wanted to make a comparison about music
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: and comedy, about how different they are, and before I
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: let you go is, I've noticed that usually there's one
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: guy in the band that might be able to do
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: business that has a mind for it, and the rest
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: of the guys usually are paying attention. In comedy, they're
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: all minds at work because they all have to write
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: their materials. So you have these guys that can all
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: process the relationship and the networking and writing it and
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: understanding the business at a certain level. And it seems
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: like every comic is that one guy from the band
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: that understands business because they all have to be if
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: they're going to make it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: Obviously, there are some comics that are really business-minded and
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: are really good at that end of things. There are
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: others that they will tell you, I'm not as interested
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: in this. They have a team around them that they trust.
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: When a project comes to us, they just trust that
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: they know we're going to do what we're going to do.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: They ask you to name names of who the good
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: ones are and who the bad ones are when it
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: comes to mind at work. But yeah, it would have been. Yeah. No,
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you like, like, uh, well, like, uh, uh,
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you a good one.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: Nate Bregazzi sat in our office like five years ago
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: and really mapped out his next five years and all
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: the things he wanted to do and where he felt
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: like he was going, including hosting Saturday Night Live, the touring,
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: the growth of the tour, all of the things, growing
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: out Nateland that we work with today. And then when
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: you hear something like, you know, now Nate wants to do,
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: a theme park in Nashville, if you actually know what
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: he's like, you go like, yeah, that makes sense.
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: He's going to do that. Just add it and doing it.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it just feels like he's got the vision. He's
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: got the work ethic. There's a lot there. Obviously, he's
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: a giant name. He can make things happen that a
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: lot of comics can't. And so you really see that,
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: and you knew just sitting down with him, even before
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: all of the things happened that happened, that he's going
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: to get there. And so where there's a lot of comics,
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: if they sat down and told us that we're going
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: to do a theme park, we'd say they're crazy.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: And so.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not all one size fits all. It's not
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: all comics are great at the business side. But to
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: your point, a lot of them are. A lot of
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: them really, really think about it.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: Well, comedy is clearly a different beast, but you guys
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: have found a niche and expanded that. And now you're
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: the record label that's behind some of the biggest comics
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: in the world and have expanded that into social mania
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: and serious radio and taken over the special market. I
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: can't thank you enough, Eamon, for making time and talking
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: to us on Promoter 101. And congratulations for all the success.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks, Dan.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. This has been a lot of fun.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: 800-pound gorilla right here on Promoter 101. Herman Sherman, Life
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: Nation Belgium, Promoter 101.
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: Now it's time for the quote of the month. Let's
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: see what Stiney has picked for us for October. Every
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: straight brings me closer to the next home run. This
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: one comes to us. From the great Bambino, Babe Ruth.
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: The Babe calling the shots, just like Dan calling the
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: quotes of the month. I like that.
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: That was good.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: Hey, it's Barnaby Heron. I'm head promoter, Mercury Wheels Live Nation,
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: and I'm on Promoter 101. And just like that, friends,
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: we are out of time. Thank you for listening.
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: Thank you to Damian Griman for joining us on the podcast.
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: We will all be back soon. If you want to
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: hear from us in the meantime, drop us a note.
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: It's steiny at promoter101.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: Net. Let us know what you think of this month's
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: interview or anything else you heard on today's pod.
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: That's a wrap.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening. We'll be back Wednesday, November 25th.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: I know we're usually back on Thursdays, but because it's Thanksgiving,
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: we're going to come out a day early for your
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: traveling pleasure listening needs. But then we'll be back the
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: last Thursday of every month. Stay plugged in and we'll
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: see you very soon. Maybe even sooner than you think.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: You never know what might pop up. Coming up in November,
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: Bruce Flohr, Executive Chief Strategy Officer and Vice President of
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: Red Light Management. bringing a sharp look at the strategy
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: shaping the business.
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: And in the meantime, we're wishing you a month of
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: full rooms, big moments, and sold-out shows for the month
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: to come.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: Cheers!
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: All your lover.
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: From old 101 to old 101, and I love you.
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: I love you.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: It's from old 101 to.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: Old 101, and I love you. Yeah, I love you.