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In the Dungeon: When Faith Meets Doubt · HOTLCAST

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome back to the Hotl Cast.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Kyle.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Ryan.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Matt.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Mark.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: And we are here.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Nick's here too.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Nick's here back here on the camera.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: What's up, camera?
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Hi.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: And Nick.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Say I say hi to Nick too.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Not just the camera.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: Ryan's back.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: You've been gone.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't you tell us where you've been?
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: You've been out over at Saul.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: I've been I was gone gone with doing a retreat through Save a Warrior.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, I mean, yeah.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: Long story short, I had a had a fantastic time.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: Got to connect with with some uh some pretty solid solid uh uh safe men and yeah yeah great time.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Now any relation to the acronym SAW for Save a Warrior and the gun, the SAW gun.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, okay.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Every time you say SAW, I always think of the gun.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's Save a Warrior, but because I played so many video games, I always think of the M247.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's yeah, 240.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_03: That that's uh what I carried when I was in the Marine Corps.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: See, and I only know that because of Call of Duty.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: 249?
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: No, two four, yeah.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, yeah.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: I sound like I know things, yeah, but I don't.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I've literally just played video games.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: You gotta be guessing those numbers now that I'm thinking about it.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: Man, how did he know this?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: He's never been in the military.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: I just remember you.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of video games in my day.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, yeah.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: He's not a pastor either.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: He just plays one on TV.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Hit the A button, okay.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but no, we're glad you're back.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's good that you're doing that.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I missed you all.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: I've I haven't seen you in like a month.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because I was gone on vacation.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: You were gone, then I was like on a vacation, and then you were gonna.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because I was at Sable Warrior and then you went on vacation, and then you got back, and then I left.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so literally, yeah, it's good.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, well, uh today we talk about, we'll continue our Dungeons and Dragons series, which we did Dungeon Dragon and now back to dungeon.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: We did Old Testament Dungeon Story, Dragon Story, and now we did a New Testament uh dungeon story.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: We talked about John the Baptist being in the dungeon.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: They put him in prison.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: He was speaking out against Herod because Herod was doing some illicit things.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: He was marrying his uh brother's former wife, Herodias, and the Lord said, No, that's not good.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so John the Baptist said publicly and shamed, like basically publicly shamed him and called him out.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: And like Herod and his wife didn't like it, so they said, Let's throw him in the dungeon, which ultimately led to him never leaving the dungeon and being beheaded.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: But while in dungeon, what we talked about from Matthew 11 was this conversation that's happening.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus is out doing miracles.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: John hears about it, John sends word to Jesus from his disciples, and Jesus responds.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: And essentially, what John says is like, hey, you know, Jesus, I prepared the way for you.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I gave you all my disciples, I follow you, I believe in you, I said you're the Lamb of God.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've told everybody you are the guy and the Messiah.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then, like, but as he's sitting in the dungeon, he's like, But are but are you the guy?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, are you really the guy?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's just has this moment of questioning.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: And Jesus' response is to tell the disciples go back, don't answer his question.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Just go tell him all the things that are happening.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: The blind people are being made to see, labor being made to walk, the dead are being raised up.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, just go give him more evidence.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that was really the answer.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then you you would think the story would end with like John being like, Oh, that's great, and then he gets out of jail because that happens a lot in the New Testament.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: John never leaves jail, he's beheaded.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's the end of his life, that's really the end of his ministry.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: And really, Jesus goes on to say in Matthew 11 that like he speaks about John after sending people back to say, Hey, go tell him what we're doing.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um He basically says, like, there is no one greater than John the Baptist.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Even after John just asked a question, like had some doubt.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus publicly says there's no one greater than John the Baptist.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: No one's ever been born who is greater than John the Baptist.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um outside of Jesus.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a pretty amazing thing to say about someone who just basically said, Are you the guy?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: So um what do you what do you think about that?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, every time we face adversity or we're going through a struggle or a trial or a challenge, we end up looking at that situation and we think we're unique in it, where, you know, like what you said about, you know, everything you've gone through with peace specifically, you know, you go through those moments and you do start asking questions, you do look at situations and circumstances, and you end up feeling like, why is this continuing to happen to me?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: Why can't I get this?
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: Why can't I get that?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, when you were telling your story, I thought back to a conversation that you and I had uh probably about 2011 when you had found out that you guys were gonna be that Patty was pregnant with Carrick, and it was right after my wife had had a miscarriage, and I actually went to you and I said, Man, I am really struggling right now because I am so incredibly jealous of what you have right now that we had been trying for a baby and trying for a baby, trying for a baby.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: We had one miscarriage and then another, and it was a whole thing.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: And you basically had looked at me and said, This is just what your path is right now.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: This is just what your walk is at the moment.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't mean it won't ever get better, but maybe it won't.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it will.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't mean that God is any less real or any less true in those moments and in those circumstances.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: And that is an incredibly hard lesson to learn because we usually have to learn it the hard way.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: We can't just be told that and understand it and kind of get it.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: We have to walk through it before we'll ever understand and realize what that looks like.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I I it's hard because when we have those moments, we want to we want everything go to perfect, we want everything to be easy.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like John, you know, John the Baptist being in the dungeon, that's not fun.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, hey, I follow the Lord, I prepared the way for him.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, shouldn't I be like honored?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like, no, no, I'm in the dungeon and I in there.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I so I think it it means for us, our faithfulness is not dependent on our circumstances.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, just because we're faithful doesn't mean everything's gonna just work out with sunshine and rainbows.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's what we want.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, God's a genie, gives me what I want.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: The more I love him, the more he's gonna take care of me.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: And truthfully, your path may may have some hard, you know, hard parts of the path.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: And there may be times that you feel like you're in a dungeon.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: We talked about Sunday, like the dungeon of health dungeons, relationship dungeons, financial dungeons, career dungeons, like um, you know, those are those are all dungeons that we're in dungeons of grief, loss, those type of things.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: And really, we all find ourselves in dungeons at times.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: And how are we gonna still love God when we feel like everything's turned against us and we're stuck in a dungeon and like our life's falling apart?
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, are we gonna just send the question to the Lord, are you still the guy?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm in jail, or do you you know, are you the guy?
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think Jesus' answer is like, watch what I'm doing.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not I'm gonna rescue you in this moment with an earthquake and save you from the dungeon.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's I'm look what I'm doing, look at look at look at the ministry that's happening.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's a it's all about perspective.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like our perspective needs to be bigger than our own circumstance.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people miss out on that all the time.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's like that, like that condition.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_03: I I see it all as like God, God, God protects my soul, right?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: God protects my heart.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's where where where I gotta sit.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_03: I gotta God isn't gonna give me like a you know a a mansion and you know, I don't know, uh a Ferrari, right?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like he might, but but that's not that's not not what what God offers me, right?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_03: And and I think that when I read the Bible, I see Jesus Jesus has a tendency to lay things out for us over and over and over and say the same thing over and over and over and over again because we as humans are just kind of kind of dumb, I think.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_03: And and how many times does he say, you know, the greatest among us will be the least among us, right?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: And how many times does he say like, hey, hey, the closer you are to me, you're gonna suffer, bro.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: And and you're gonna suffer profoundly.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: And so just plan on it.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I mean, and and he's the ultimate example.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, look how much he suffered for us.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, he gave everything, right?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_03: And and and so who who am I to think that that the closer I get to God, I should just uh my assumption should just be that there is going to be suffering in this world.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_03: And and the closer I get to God, the more that I should suffer.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_03: So if if that's happening, then I can I can do a couple things.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_03: I can I can look and go, oh, poor me.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_03: Or I can go, wow, what are you teaching me, God?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: What do you got for me?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_03: What am I supposed to learn and and what am I supposed to do with this?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_03: And and and and thank you for this, right?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: And and I think that, you know, like it's funny we've had these conversations.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: I've had several conversations in my Bible study about John the Baptist, right?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: Because you know, so much of uh what we do, we try to, at least for me, I try to model myself after Jesus.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: But in reality, like I will never hit that.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: I I'll miss that mark by a mile every single time, no matter how laser focused I am.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_03: And and in reality, like really, I think that's if we're being realistic from a practical level, like John the Baptist is about as close as we could ever get.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I mean, he he's about as as close to to perfect of a human that there is.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_03: And and so we we've had a lot of conversations of like, yeah, man, like you know, there that John the Baptist is solid faith, but he also has that that where he he he throws out a little doubt, like, mmm, I love you and and I give you everything, but give me some reassurance.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Reassure me because I'm in jail.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like I'm I mean, I want to know because I'm in jail.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like it doesn't feel like maybe you're the guy, and then Jesus' like, no, I'm the guy, like watch, watch what I'm doing.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: So and I I think that's the reality.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Just because you're in a dungeon doesn't mean Jesus is not God and he's not doing his his God thing.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we tend to be when things are good, Jesus is good.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: When things are bad, oh, is Jesus good?
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, that's kind of we we we flip the switch so quick on Jesus.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean that's why I I like try to be overly positive, which is annoying to people.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: But like when things bad things happen, God's still good.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like he really is, and we just have to understand health situations, grief situations, financial situations, God is still good.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're gonna be okay.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like the eternal blessing that is promised isn't dependent on you know earthly circumstances.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're in a dungeon on earth, does it really matter?
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because John the Baptist has probably got the greatest rewards in heaven if he was the greatest among anyone who was ever born.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's a pretty impressive statement by Jesus.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: He's probably he's probably enjoying it right now in heaven with his earthly blessings.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean his heavenly blessings, so that's I think something we have to keep in perspective.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think also that our culture and our society promoting things that sound like they're from scripture that aren't like God saves his toughest battles for his strongest warriors, or that God will never give you more than you can handle, none of that is biblical, but people have grabbed onto that as being a biblical truth.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: And the moment that they have, they start looking at it and saying, Well, you know, if God is giving me all of this stuff or this is all happening to me, or I'm going through all of these terrible things, clearly there must be a that God is doing this for a purpose or for a reason, or sometimes bad stuff just happens.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's just that you're walking through life and the earth is broken and fallen, and there are terrible things that happen.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes bad people have good things happen, and sometimes good people have bad things happen.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just the way that it plays out, and people tend to look at God because of statements like those, with this feeling of blame and anger and frustration, and it's unjust to look at God and say, Hey, you know, this is a miserable situation, why are you dragging me through this and expecting that you deserve an answer because you don't?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: God's reasons are higher and greater and bigger than yours.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: And if He is allowing something to go through, like we talked about Job, you know, how he came out the other side of everything that he had gone through.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: And when you go through those moments and you go through those circumstances, you don't necessarily understand why at the time.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: But if you give everything enough time, you can look back and ultimately see, okay, so there was a purpose behind this.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't like going through it, and that's okay, but there was a reason that God brought me down this road and through this valley or through this desert to get me to the point where I am on the other side, and I wouldn't have been able to learn it without going through that trial or struggle.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that you know what what rung true in me what what popped up in my mind, you know, what struck me when you said that, Matt, was like I I think that in my mind I have like a like a pile of stuff, like a I have like a a stuff that don't make sense pile in my mind.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: And like that's that's like in it's like Jesus' hands, right?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's where I put all my stuff that don't make sense.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um my big old pile is right there in my mind.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: Love that actually in Jesus' hands.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: And and I don't have to make sense of it.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_03: I don't have to I don't have to get it.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: I just have to trust God with it.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I can just put it there and go, yeah, there's my stuff that don't make sense.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: And Kyle's questions that he hasn't gotten answered yet could go in those same hands.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: And and and and then God God has a way of revealing things when when he needs to reveal them, right?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: And and so he shows up and he goes, he goes, Oh, great, you trusted me with that.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: Let me take some of that stuff off your plate there for you.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: Because you trusted me, you know, and and and I know the things that I just hold on with white knuckling in my life, and I'm like, nope, no, I'm gonna figure this out.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: God goes, okay, good.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: Let me know when you're done suffering.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think we need to look at the pile that's already finished, too, to remember that the pile that you don't get will be taken care of.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: It has a purpose.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: You go, okay, so I have this, this, and this.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was talking about anxiety with students um at Somerset for like one of the breakouts we had for our little retreat that we did.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things I was like is you need to take stock of what God has done.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you're feeling anxious and worried and you're like, where is God?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Try and have like I was like, write down a list of the things you've seen God do or people in your life have seen God do so that you can remember and be like, oh yeah, that did happen.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, that did happen.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, I was taken care of because we hyperfixate on the thing that's now, because it's what we see, it's what we feel, it's what we know, it's what we're experiencing.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: But we need to remember what experiences have happened that highlight who God is and what he's done.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, I like to you talked about like the pile in your brain, because there's all sorts of piles in there, I'm sure.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_03: And it's a mess.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: But you you probably have that pile of, well, I know that God has done this, I know that God has done this, so alright, I'm gonna I'm gonna give it to him because I know he knows what to do with it.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's a trust thing, it's a reliance thing, it's a faith thing.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I like how you talked about white knuckling.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: So white knuckling is when you have your your hands on the steering wheel so hard that you're gripping and you have your knuckles have turned white because of the blood flow.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I've I thought about this before.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like sometimes when you're just when you're going too fast or you're going through a dangerous place and you're all by yourself and you're just white knuckling because you're worried, like you know, or like when I'm trying not to hit deer, you're just white knuckling it all the way home.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, I'm not gonna hit a deer, I don't want to.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I I remember a time when I was in Vegas and I was on Speed Vegas, which is their racetrack, and I was white knuckling it 140 miles an hour in a Ferrari.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, this is it was terrifying.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: But because I had the expert next to me, it and he was telling giving me instructions as I was going, it was nowhere near as terrifying as it would have been had I been alone.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like it would have been it would have been a hundred times more terrifying to be 140 miles an hour in a race car, not knowing what I'm doing.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: And the guy's like, aim for that cone, aim for that cone, and watch what the car does.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: And like he gave me so much peace.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I think for life, we're just when we're in the dungeon, we're kind of white-knuckling with Jesus in the passenger seat.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: He's just he's there with us, giving us, keeping us calm, telling us it's gonna be okay, you're gonna be fine.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: And like it's the same perspective.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: We just have to we have to recognize that sometimes the circumstances that we're in, if we remember that Jesus is there with us, we we can have more peace and we can get through it.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: And like that doesn't mean we won't be in the dungeon, it just means we're gonna be able to get through.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what we have to navigate.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes life is just life, and um, you know, we've gotta just get through and we gotta know that Jesus is still good in the midst of it.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what John the Baptist knew.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: He probably knew he wasn't getting out.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like he's Harry was not a loving, fluffy kind of guy.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: So um, and so ultimately uh God was still good and Jesus was still Jesus.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I think if you feel like you're in a dungeon, turn to him.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh what we said in the sermon is you gotta you gotta pray more, you gotta get in your Bible more, you gotta get around people who uh are good, biblical, wise counsel who can who have been in the dungeons before and can tell you how to get through it.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they've white and knuckled along with Jesus and can help you figure that out too.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then ultimately you just gotta trust that God will move how he wants to move in his timing, and you gotta know that that's good and God's still faithful.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks for listening to the podcast.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: We hope this helps you, and we hope you get out the dungeon.